It's wonderful to see and hear you talking Graham, brings back memories of the Bathroom Tapes and having you around during some of my formative years! given that you know both of my parents it's possible you knew this 20 years before I did, as apparently many around me knew especially "family" members, I knew I was schooled in a catholic convent but it wasn't till my mid 30's that I was told (actually it accidentally slipped out of my Dads gob) having be born into an Irish Catholic family out of wedlock, being a heathen I guess, that at birth I was taken and given to the Convent Orphanage in Pantasaph north Wales, thankfully my Wonderful Mother "rescued" me 6 weeks later, obviously I have no memory of this ( I do however have vivid memories of a house in Birmingham we moved from when I was 20months young so I do have very early memories even if I can't remember last week) but when I was told I finally understood why I felt and acted like I did/do! It didn't heal the mind but it helped me understand myself a little bit more, which I feel we all strive to do!
I loved this . And thankyou both for speaking from your hearts first ! Then the wonderful stories of your journeys with the Master , God Bless you and your families . Keep looking up gentlemen.
I enjoyed this conversation. I think hurt people, often hurt people. I too look back on days gone where it all seemed easier and less intense. Whilst I feel optimistic that we can rediscover that purity and integrity. I think we have to face ,head on. Where we’ve made a wrong run. I know many industry folk who started out with good intentions. Wanted people to experience worship in their homes and help communities to develop in music and leading others . I remember back in 2000 when I was signed to a US label. I learnt that most of these labels are ultimately owned by mainstream corporations. And they are business’s at the end of the day. I’d love to hear of any stories where writers are writing for their own church communities. No deals no sales just people .
This is fantastic. Please keep doing what you're doing. Is it just me, but I can remember you jamming "the Lord is gracious..." at the Archer's pub in Romford... I remember when Debbie & I first got married and I left Romford Baptist church, we looked for churches around Goodmayes, and stumbled across a church - I think it was St. Thomas, Becontree. It's an odd church because the nave of the church is massive, and they build a church hall physically within the nave itself at the back, like a kind of cocoon, and were meeting in there because it was much cheaper to heat than the whole massive church in mid-winter. Anyhow, we went in there, and there was a vicar, and a load of mums with their kids, and not much in the way of musical organization, and we made a very pure but very noisy and dissonant noise to the Lord when it came to singing praises and worship! As it was, it wasn't the place we settled at, but I was always struck at how very different but very raw and close the worship was, and I've used that as a reminder not to take calls for "excellent musicianship" to take over, and also to be as creative as you can - i.e. experiment! - at the same time. Thanks again.
An interesting chat with some good insights. I think he’s way off the mark saying people are throwing out the baby with the bath water. In fact some could find it quite patronising. Many people have gone on extremely painful and challenging journeys and have chosen to leave their faith behind. He used the word integrity a lot - all the people I know who have been on that journey have loads of it. More than some Christians I would say. Also toxicity is at the heart of Evangelical theology. Until that’s grappled with and dealt with, abuse of power will always happen. Glad you made reference to Prosch’s toxic behaviour and that of Alan and Katherine of Vineyard. It’s important to keep exposing this kind of behaviour which will continue until the theology is dealt with.
In those moments, you were utterly convinced that God was indeed present in what we were doing. The trauma came when people we assumed were also of god, turned out to be charlatans.
"HE IS everything that He said He is, BUT WE'RE NOT everything that we say we are." just over 40 minutes in. That kind of captures it, really. And I hear - again - that phrase, the "worship industry". That IS NOT, CANNOT EVER BE true worship ... can it? Haha! Says someone who is paid to lead worship. Boy, it's a minefield. But thanks for your work, so important it continues.
Another thought. Not one of us knows another person's true spiritual state, I don't even really know MY OWN some of the time, only God knows. All we have to go on is the behaviour we observe, and who knows how people get lost in that "machine" you guys have spoken about?! A bit like how does Anakin become Darth Vader, and is there still something salvageable in there? I've just had a conversation with some creator friends about dealing with trolls online, and really it's about dealing with troll-like behaviour, understanding that everyone believes they have good reason for the way they act. I found it just reminds me, that whatever this person's behaviour is towards me, I need to remember not be the troll back. It's that integrity Graham talked about, or as Jesus put it, "Be perfect (actually an INTEGRAL WHOLE), even as your Heavenly Father is perfect." My own behaviour needs to be moderated, and actually does come out of, the person I am within me, not the circumstances against which I think I am reacting. Thanks again. So much food for thought here.
Faith comes from God, from hearing about God, and so in this sense, I don't think it's joined. However, my experience(s) in church defo tried to ruin it.
@@andsoistopped expression or embodiment of faith has always felt straightjacketed with my membership/ experience of church. As the majority of evangelicals only want me for my seat-filling-arse and tithe - and on the odd occasion front leading gifting or just my hands to slap the back of those already there.
The only way you can have true integrity is to ditch the whole bollocks and walk away from it, lock stock and barrel, bath water and baby You also mention the “victim mentality” and that chimes with me, I get that, and I recognise it as an issue. However I’ve realised I don’t need god or Christianity to sort that out, the answer is to stop doing that shit.
![Chris Langan - The Interview THEY Didn't Want You To See - CTMU [Full Version; Timestamps]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9miVG2xT5jY/mqdefault.jpg)
Love you Graham!
It's wonderful to see and hear you talking Graham, brings back memories of the Bathroom Tapes and having you around during some of my formative years! given that you know both of my parents it's possible you knew this 20 years before I did, as apparently many around me knew especially "family" members, I knew I was schooled in a catholic convent but it wasn't till my mid 30's that I was told (actually it accidentally slipped out of my Dads gob) having be born into an Irish Catholic family out of wedlock, being a heathen I guess, that at birth I was taken and given to the Convent Orphanage in Pantasaph north Wales, thankfully my Wonderful Mother "rescued" me 6 weeks later, obviously I have no memory of this ( I do however have vivid memories of a house in Birmingham we moved from when I was 20months young so I do have very early memories even if I can't remember last week) but when I was told I finally understood why I felt and acted like I did/do! It didn't heal the mind but it helped me understand myself a little bit more, which I feel we all strive to do!
Good to hear you Graham - long time no see! God is gracious and compassionate 🌊🌊🌊🔥🔥🔥🙏🙏🙏
I loved this . And thankyou both for speaking from your hearts first ! Then the wonderful stories of your journeys with the Master , God Bless you and your families .
Keep looking up gentlemen.
I enjoyed this conversation. I think hurt people, often hurt people. I too look back on days gone where it all seemed easier and less intense. Whilst I feel optimistic that we can rediscover that purity and integrity. I think we have to face ,head on. Where we’ve made a wrong run. I know many industry folk who started out with good intentions. Wanted people to experience worship in their homes and help communities to develop in music and leading others . I remember back in 2000 when I was signed to a US label. I learnt that most of these labels are ultimately owned by mainstream corporations. And they are business’s at the end of the day. I’d love to hear of any stories where writers are writing for their own church communities. No deals no sales just people .
💯
Awesome - keep these coming. Brilliant conversation.
Thank you - lots more coming this month
This is fantastic. Please keep doing what you're doing.
Is it just me, but I can remember you jamming "the Lord is gracious..." at the Archer's pub in Romford...
I remember when Debbie & I first got married and I left Romford Baptist church, we looked for churches around Goodmayes, and stumbled across a church - I think it was St. Thomas, Becontree. It's an odd church because the nave of the church is massive, and they build a church hall physically within the nave itself at the back, like a kind of cocoon, and were meeting in there because it was much cheaper to heat than the whole massive church in mid-winter. Anyhow, we went in there, and there was a vicar, and a load of mums with their kids, and not much in the way of musical organization, and we made a very pure but very noisy and dissonant noise to the Lord when it came to singing praises and worship! As it was, it wasn't the place we settled at, but I was always struck at how very different but very raw and close the worship was, and I've used that as a reminder not to take calls for "excellent musicianship" to take over, and also to be as creative as you can - i.e. experiment! - at the same time.
Thanks again.
Mike, great to hear from you. The Archers sounds about right. Hope you and yours are well
Yep, keep the videos coming, Sam. ❤🎶🌈🎸❤️
An interesting chat with some good insights. I think he’s way off the mark saying people are throwing out the baby with the bath water. In fact some could find it quite patronising. Many people have gone on extremely painful and challenging journeys and have chosen to leave their faith behind. He used the word integrity a lot - all the people I know who have been on that journey have loads of it. More than some Christians I would say. Also toxicity is at the heart of Evangelical theology. Until that’s grappled with and dealt with, abuse of power will always happen. Glad you made reference to Prosch’s toxic behaviour and that of Alan and Katherine of Vineyard. It’s important to keep exposing this kind of behaviour which will continue until the theology is dealt with.
In those moments, you were utterly convinced that God was indeed present in what we were doing.
The trauma came when people we assumed were also of god, turned out to be charlatans.
That song takes me right back. Singing the chorus extempore, not knowing which harmony would come next, hoping it would never end…
"HE IS everything that He said He is, BUT WE'RE NOT everything that we say we are." just over 40 minutes in. That kind of captures it, really. And I hear - again - that phrase, the "worship industry". That IS NOT, CANNOT EVER BE true worship ... can it? Haha! Says someone who is paid to lead worship. Boy, it's a minefield. But thanks for your work, so important it continues.
Another thought. Not one of us knows another person's true spiritual state, I don't even really know MY OWN some of the time, only God knows. All we have to go on is the behaviour we observe, and who knows how people get lost in that "machine" you guys have spoken about?! A bit like how does Anakin become Darth Vader, and is there still something salvageable in there? I've just had a conversation with some creator friends about dealing with trolls online, and really it's about dealing with troll-like behaviour, understanding that everyone believes they have good reason for the way they act. I found it just reminds me, that whatever this person's behaviour is towards me, I need to remember not be the troll back. It's that integrity Graham talked about, or as Jesus put it, "Be perfect (actually an INTEGRAL WHOLE), even as your Heavenly Father is perfect." My own behaviour needs to be moderated, and actually does come out of, the person I am within me, not the circumstances against which I think I am reacting. Thanks again. So much food for thought here.
I feel uncomfortable about celebrity culture within churches
You said your faith hasn’t changed. Surely not being part of a church in the Evangelical sense means it has?
Faith comes from God, from hearing about God, and so in this sense, I don't think it's joined. However, my experience(s) in church defo tried to ruin it.
@ so your behaviour and activity has changed rather than your faith. I think I was thinking of the word faith to include ‘the practice of.’
@@andsoistopped expression or embodiment of faith has always felt straightjacketed with my membership/ experience of church. As the majority of evangelicals only want me for my seat-filling-arse and tithe - and on the odd occasion front leading gifting or just my hands to slap the back of those already there.
@@SamHowson indeed. Or feather 🪶 tickled arse.
The only way you can have true integrity is to ditch the whole bollocks and walk away from it, lock stock and barrel, bath water and baby
You also mention the “victim mentality” and that chimes with me, I get that, and I recognise it as an issue. However I’ve realised I don’t need god or Christianity to sort that out, the answer is to stop doing that shit.