2:55 I just enjoy the way our Old King talks, he was always a man of learning, but he was also a warrior and a dragonrider. I remember reading that on Fire & Blood and how they confirm Orys parentage.
I think the real reason Rhaenyra wanted Nettles killed had less to do with her affair with Daemon and more to do with the fact that she bonded with Sheepstealer without magic or any apparent Valyrian heritage presented a serious threat to her rule
Targaryens weren’t the only Dragonlords and it’s very possible that she’s of mixed Valeryon origin. Even the Targaryens themselves aren’t pure Valeryon due to all of the intermarriage with different houses
Sheepstealer might actually still be alive. It's likely that after Nettles died the dragon begun to roam. I expect it left Westeros though, as dragon sightings would have been very noticeable, even in the Vale wilderness.
If it only flew within a small radius above mountains only inhabited by the 'cult', then Sheepstealer could still be hanging around there. Any outsiders who saw SS would probably be thought of as mad, if they even managed to escape the mountain men
Besides, Nettles IS a very charming and interesting character, based on the somewhat limited info from “Fire and Blood”. And she gives the reader some insight into how the Valyrians might have bonded with dragons in the first place: by feeding them sheep, and subsequently trying to ride them, after there’s a level of familiarity with the dragon. On another hand, IMO it’s likely most dragon riders initially came over from The Great Empire of the Dawn. Hopefully GRRM will let us know eventually if there’s some truth to this thesis
@@antonchizhov4419 I think GRRM already did. In the books when Daenerys had one of her dreams she saw other people with silver gold hair like her, but their eye colors were different. And each color was the same color of the gem stone emperors
@@princeali1932 it was one of her visions in the House of the Undying, if I remember it correctly? There was a multitude of weird, yet incredible and fascinating stuff going on in there. Goes to show how deep and multi-layered the world built by Martin really is, full of subtle hints and mystery that provide context for the storyline and the characters
@@franklyyourewrong2803 True. It's that and also just basic understanding of a Dragon as an apex predator in general. Mutual trust/respect and a deep bond
What they meant by there were gifts given is that Orys himself was a gift that he was a gift to the world a strong soldier Aegon’s best friend and strong right hand if it wasn’t for the affair he wouldn’t have existed so he was a gift
It seems like the dragons are like nuclear weapons and no one ever wanted to start a war as when you everyone gets destroyed- it's called mutually assured destruction with nuclear weapons
@@santymartin7383 they had a dynasty, but they weren’t total and absolute monarchs. Aegon the conqueror himself made friends of those he defeated, and often met with them
I often wonder if in fact Danaerys is a dragon seed. Visery's stories to Dany are so filled with obvious lies and/or holes. That damn Red Door and the lemon tree, hehe!
The institution of Prima Nocta - as in the right of a monarch to perform sexual acts with a bride after her wedding with another subject - is debated to ever having existed. The majority of historians believe it’s just a myth, due to the complete lack of contemporary medieval sources.
@@brownlandcleve3786 yeah, I don't doubt that it's overblown. Most likely it happened once or a few times because of one particularly overzealous lord and people blew it out of proportion. What isn't up for debate is where Martin got his idea from.
Perhaps the Targaryen custom of gifting gold, lands and other valuable assets to the mother of a dragonseed was a surviving custom from the dragonlords of the Valyrian Freehold. The tradition of incestuous marriage, already millennia old by the time of the Doom, must surely have had major detrimental effects on both fertility and viability and health of the infants born to dragonlord houses. One way of ameliorating this effect would have been to marry younger siblings off into the other dragonlord houses. This would have managed to slow down the degeneration caused by repetitive inbreeding, but not stop it. After all, How many houses of Dragonlords did the Freehold have? Sooner or later, even this expanded gene pool would begin to look frighteningly unvaried, and the number of miscarriages, still births, deformities and infant mortality rates would once more begin to rise. This is where Valyrian Dragonseeds come in. Little is said about the non-dragon-riding Valyrians, but I guess we can assume that the lower ranks had the same racial characteristics as the Dragonlords: ethereal beauty in male and female, purple eye shades and silver/gold hair. If so, then they, too, may have had the potential to become dragonriders. Whilst the Freehold may not have had the custom of the 'first night', the menfolk might have been free to seek love outside the marriage bed... and, for all we know, so might the women. Until and unless GRRM clarifies the matter, it could be that any child born out of wedlock was considered to be part of the House the dragonlord parent belonged to, with almost all the rights and privileges given to trueborn offspring, especially if those trueborn ones kept dying at birth or just afterwards. It wouldn't be the first time the Targaryens kept an old Valyrian tradition going when those around them didn't. From what I understood from 'Fire and Blood' the only thing Orys Baratheon didn't have was the Targaryen name: do we assume this was the family name of his non-Targaryen mother? Dragonseeds in the Valyrian Freehold might have done the same, adopting the family name of the non-Dragonlord parent but still considered part of the house. And if the dragonseed's parent had other, 'pureblood' children, the dragonseed was wed into the family, keeping the bloodline together with fresh genes slipped in...
So how did all the husband's of all these wives that had to have sex with their Lord's handle this? Since with your info, even the Valyrians had a system of having a lot of these "dragonseeds" that would eventually marry back in the family, did none of the men of the lower houses ever question this?
@@ibrahimmustafa2481 Well, I feel it may not be too far fetched. Wanting to add fresh blood to the line so they don't have as many issues... well, may not be too out of the question
@@ibrahimmustafa2481 -to paraphrase a famous science fiction writer " Any technology that's different to ours is going to seem like magic..." Besides, magic still follows certain laws and rules, even if those laws and rules match nothing we understand. And if the issues the Valyrians and Targaryens had with fertility and viability was simply down to magic, why didn't they use more magic to correct the issues? The humans in GRRM's world understood enough about genetic inheritance to understand incest was dangerous, and therefore, banned it. The detrimental consequences of the Targaryen custom of wedding close relations to each other simply compounded the issues since the only Valyrian bloodlines inexistence were them, the Velaryons and the Celtigars, and of the latter two, the Velaryons were favoured. With such a small gene pool, even without the continual inbreeding, the Targaryen line was doomed to extinction sooner or later,
Okay, apparently it has to be said, because I though it was a common knowledge - first night was not a thing, especially not in Middle Ages. Sure, lords raping peasant women were sadly not uncommon (they did have a lot of power over them and it's not hard to imagine some abusing it), but putting it into law would be preposterous even then. It was mostly a literary trope, like when you wanted to show a noble of being a tyrant, you made him participate in the first night, or when you wanted to slander him, you said that's what he's doing. But there is no evidence it was ever an actual law.
Yeah, it's wild how old that trope actually is. That was the main inciting incident in the Epic of Gilgamesh, probably one of, if not the oldest living hero story in the world.
Nettles has a Targaryen blood , they summoned only dragon seeds , they would not let some commoner to tame a dragon. Like come on ? She most likely Daemon daughter who advised her how to tame one.
i fell in love with game of thrones and i started watching your channel to learn more about it,it was so confusing at first but thanks to you i know more about asoiaf lore than our world history hahaha upload more often plsssss🤘🏽
I guess it would be hard to find the right actors with the ability and look. But I always pictured the Targaryen’s to be so beautiful nobody could touch them and the actors just never seemed “unbelievably Beautiful” as I pictured them
It's like Jaime and cercie the acting was phenomenal but when you look at them out of context from pure physical features alone you would not think it's the characters from the books
The first night thing has been thought to happen in medeival europe but later scholars just think its a myth and more to do with asking lords for premission to marry
No, in the real world "la prima nocte" is a myth. If lords really started this trend even with their serfs instead of vassals, they would be dead within the year. Marriage is sacred to the catholic church , you don't want to mess with it no matter your status
You speak of Prima nocte, and it was infamously real. It was as unpopular IRL as one would expect, but it seems to be less hated in some places in Westeros. I’m just saying the chance to have a potential magical kid that can ride dragons…? Plus they get presents. Not like gift cards either but like riches. And remember that the smallfolk had been taught for a while that the Targs were “exceptional” and despite Grrm being extremely altruistic, he has made most of the big houses have defining traits that are desirable. Targs don’t get sick (as often or as severely). They often can see future. They can brush off small fire damage. Etc.
A lord seeping with a woman on her wedding night was a real thing in medieval Europe known as prima nocta. It was popular in Scotland as a way of trying to breed out the Scottish by leeting English lords sleep with women on their wedding nights.
I'm sorry to disappoint but we have no prove it ever did happen the first accounts of the concept showed up hundreds of years after the middle ages at a time when people tended to either romanticize or condemn the middle ages to a laugable degree. Not saying that no common woman was ever raped by a noble man but there was no law giving you the right to do it mainly because the King who would put that into action would have put himself on the churches bad side and pretty much no one was willing to risk that and endanger ones own power.
@@PRLake007.1 well than I apologize for the misunderstanding I guess I am scared by the discussions I had with people who genuinely believed movies like this depict real history good on you for not falling into that trap Hollywood has sprung :)
The bedding tradition actually happened in the medieval times it was believed that the more men "spread their manliness inside the bride" the stronger her child will be. And also it was a way to know the bride wasn't a virgin anyways its pretty disgusting.
Yeah this is not remotely true, it was something made up by the Scots to rile up their base and get them to fight for independence, nobles raping commoners was not at all uncommon, but it was never on a wedding night and it was never codified into law, there is zero evidence of it outside of a few RECENT literary works where it was used to show how bad the tyrant noble was. But yeah, just to recap, this was Scottish propaganda and never happened (Source: Not a full on historian, but a student of history *AND* Irish, i'd love nothing more than to shit on England lol)
So did Nettles have any valyrian blood in her or not? It seems like yes as she was a common girl of dragonstone which we know a lot of Targaryen slept with people of the island. She might have been one of those bastards
they had 20+ dragons , man! a dragon is not a horse. there werent many targaryen riders around! if they had they would have second valyria in Westeros.
The dragons in Westeros went extinct after the dance of dragons, where most of them died, and the rest was kept in captivity, resulting in the decrease of their strength and size. Daenerys' dragons were probably born because she killed Mirri Maz Duur in th pyre
It's also believed Aegon III 'the Dragonbane' who ruled after the Dance of the Dragons may have made sure these dragons all died out. After all he was heavily traumatized by the civil war in which he almost lost his entire family and watched his mother being fed alive to a dragon.
@@taurinvandenbrand7574 I honestly think the “Dragonbane” nickname Aegon got was more of just slander against him honestly. Sure he was traumatized his whole life and wasn’t too fond of dragons, but he did try to hatch more with it being stated he even tried to bring mages from Essos to hatch a collection of eggs, which is very reminiscent of future hatching attempts such as Summerhall. People blame him for the death of the last dragon, despite it being said that it was “sickly, small, misshapen, and stunted, with withered wings.” In all likelihood it just died naturally. Point is the “Dragonbane” idea just sounds more like propaganda against him by political rivals than an actual provable fact. In all likelihood he was just the unfortunate bloke who happened to be king when they died out, if his brother Viserys was in his place at the time he likely would’ve been given that same treatment despite his very pro dragon stance.
@@brendan9868 i do agree with you that the name is probably slander from his enemies, but it is clearly stated that Aegon III hated and feared dragons, and would never go near one. True, he did bring nine mages over to try and hatch some new ones, but this was only done after the urging of his brother/ hand of the king who had convinced him that dragons could be powerful tools against their enemies. So maybe in the end he only tried to bring them back because of his brother, fearing that mayhaps another rift would come between him and his only friend. Also Aegon III left most of the day to day governance of the realm to his brother so maybe prince Viserys made all the plans and Aegon III got the credit because he was the king. I actually also do not believe Aegon III was behind the ending of the dragons, I only think its possible. I guess we will never know until old Georgie will release Blood and Fire.
I've watched many of your video's & am truly a fan of your work. That being said. I have to respectfully disagree with your opinion on Nettles heredity. I say this because historically having some "blood of the dragon" was always necessary to have a chance of bonding & becoming a dragon rider. Also there are a number of examples of true born Targaryens who did not share the typical valyrian features. Themselves having dark hair & eyes. So it is my humble opinion that Nettles does have "blood of the dragon" somewhere in her lineage. ✌
Whycreate you are my favorite ASOIAF commentator, slightly above Quinn's Ideas. I once read a theory that Orys Baratheon's mother was a Bastard of Storm's End. Are there clues or textual evidence of this?
The right of the first night, like the oubliette's mentioned in asoiaf has been believed to have existed in medieval europe, but current historians don't believe it was ever real (well, some very small cells were a thing in the holocaust, so those might count as oubliettes to some, but that was not medieval). While torture was common and while no doubt some noblemen abused their powers to rape with impunity like how Roose conceived Ramsey (if hollywood bigshots do it now, some feudal lords did it for sure) these particular customs were adapted by GRRM from popular portrayals of medieval times, not from actual history.
@@jakehopkins6989 I've checked on the internet and I'm not sure anymore. I got it from the wikipedia article on dungeons a while back, but that one is poorly sourced. I found contradictory claims in other places, with some historians claiming they existed and some other historians claiming that most or all of them are storage places mistaken for cells. At least one person on quora had pictures though, along with the claim that human bones were found, so they probably did exist. My mistake.
The phrase prima nocta, based on the Latin “first night,” is a shortened and corrupted from jus primae noctis, “right of the first night.” It generally names an ancient tradition in which all noble lords, whether kings or dukes, had the right to have sex with any of their female subjects-regardless of their will and even with a virgin bride-on her wedding night. Yeah its real
If Orys Baratheon was a bastard, how come he doesn't have a bastard surname?? I think Orys Stone would of been his bastard name.. What do you all think?
Probably because the targs were really trying to get accustomed to westerosi tradition like the faith of the seven. To have a bastard as your right hand would most likely be seen bad by the faith.
Hey brother, love your content, have for years... but have you given any thought to the fact that GRRM doesn't know how to tie the loose ends in his novels, including danys heel turn. Speculation is pointless, stick with the histories
@@ianvera4299 I know, and I don't want to insult anyone's taste, but Daemon Targaryen is supposed to be this dangerous bad boy, this handsome manly man, and Matt Smith... Doesn't look like that.
In the times of the middle ages where england ruled scotland there was a same kind of rule. Where the english lords got the oppurtunity to sleep with the newly wed wifes of the scottish lords. One of the reasons why they rebelled!
Oh yes it was a real world thing and after it was dropped from law the expectation still existed like with Bolton and Glover. I'm taking up to the 19th century in some places. And it wasn't confined to a wedding night , just a party at the big house . ( so my grandmother said )
@@tereziamarkova2822 seriously ? made it up . That's funny she didn't make it up ( she wasn't one of the girls chosen) and this was late 19 and early 20s century she was talking about. And I have other stories that dont have documentary evidence but there is DNA evidence. Please dont pull documentary evidence and historians on me . And yes on certain subjects I credit my late grandmother more that any cambridge historian or oxford don or Harvard or wherever. I'm a historian myself I argue with them everyday . And I say there is no documentary evidence on what I said but actually there is on this subject. My grandmother never lied ( she might remain silent on a subject but never lied , and for what reason ? Sand old dying woman talking to her children and grandchildren telling a story than was common knowledge in the town , and many other towns like it .
If I might offer a bit of constructive criticism, you have a tendency to drop your volume at the end of your sentences. You start speaking at a good volume, but you barely mutter that last 3 or 4 words of each sentence and it's hard to understand what you're saying.
Yes it totally did happen in real life! Roman Empowers and lesser lords were well known to practice It was also fairly common in Scotland, China, Kurdistan and Hawaii. The most commonly used name is Droit du seigneur meaning “Lord’s Right”.
2:55 I just enjoy the way our Old King talks, he was always a man of learning, but he was also a warrior and a dragonrider. I remember reading that on Fire & Blood and how they confirm Orys parentage.
My two favorites Orys Baratheon, one of the first known and important dragonseeds, and Addam Velaryon.
L o y a l
@@Zanderal24 That was what Alyn Oakenfist marked on his brother's grave. Amazing
@@ArqAngilberto
Wait, who was his brother?
@@thalmoragent9344Addam
I think the real reason Rhaenyra wanted Nettles killed had less to do with her affair with Daemon and more to do with the fact that she bonded with Sheepstealer without magic or any apparent Valyrian heritage presented a serious threat to her rule
I’m pretty sure Nettles did have mixed Valyrian blood but didn’t look or have 100% Valyrian traits.
Nettles was considered Dragonseed
Nettles had Targaryen blood through house Velaryon right?
Targaryens weren’t the only Dragonlords and it’s very possible that she’s of mixed Valeryon origin. Even the Targaryens themselves aren’t pure Valeryon due to all of the intermarriage with different houses
The Dragonseeds were a very fun addition to Fire & Blood. Great video as always!
Sheepstealer might actually still be alive. It's likely that after Nettles died the dragon begun to roam. I expect it left Westeros though, as dragon sightings would have been very noticeable, even in the Vale wilderness.
If it only flew within a small radius above mountains only inhabited by the 'cult', then Sheepstealer could still be hanging around there. Any outsiders who saw SS would probably be thought of as mad, if they even managed to escape the mountain men
We will find out soon.
I love nettles, not only as a character but because she shows there's more to dragon riding than just magic genetics.
But how do we know she hasn’t got Targaryen or Velaryon genetics?
Besides, Nettles IS a very charming and interesting character, based on the somewhat limited info from “Fire and Blood”. And she gives the reader some insight into how the Valyrians might have bonded with dragons in the first place: by feeding them sheep, and subsequently trying to ride them, after there’s a level of familiarity with the dragon.
On another hand, IMO it’s likely most dragon riders initially came over from The Great Empire of the Dawn. Hopefully GRRM will let us know eventually if there’s some truth to this thesis
@@antonchizhov4419 I think GRRM already did. In the books when Daenerys had one of her dreams she saw other people with silver gold hair like her, but their eye colors were different. And each color was the same color of the gem stone emperors
@@princeali1932 it was one of her visions in the House of the Undying, if I remember it correctly? There was a multitude of weird, yet incredible and fascinating stuff going on in there. Goes to show how deep and multi-layered the world built by Martin really is, full of subtle hints and mystery that provide context for the storyline and the characters
@@franklyyourewrong2803
True. It's that and also just basic understanding of a Dragon as an apex predator in general.
Mutual trust/respect and a deep bond
Addam was a tragic character and I wish him and his brother were given some more light.
What they meant by there were gifts given is that Orys himself was a gift that he was a gift to the world a strong soldier Aegon’s best friend and strong right hand if it wasn’t for the affair he wouldn’t have existed so he was a gift
It seems like the dragons are like nuclear weapons and no one ever wanted to start a war as when you everyone gets destroyed- it's called mutually assured destruction with nuclear weapons
That’s why Valyrians had a semi democracy instead of kingdoms. Settle differences with votes and debates not war.
@@bensonfang1868 didnt they have like a empire before the fall?
@@santymartin7383 they had a dynasty, but they weren’t total and absolute monarchs. Aegon the conqueror himself made friends of those he defeated, and often met with them
Such a relief hearing these honestly. Helps me relax and stuff. Appreciate your work.
I often wonder if in fact Danaerys is a dragon seed. Visery's stories to Dany are so filled with obvious lies and/or holes. That damn Red Door and the lemon tree, hehe!
It wouldn't make sense.
Preston Jacobs has a series on this.
@@tobiasash9281 Yeah, I know -;))
Good ol' Prima Nocta. Sometimes, novelists and writers don't need to look too much further than real life for devious plot points in their fiction.
If I life the hammer I rule asgard ? yes , I will be re instituting primenocta ( Tony stark) .
I was going to comment but I knew another history buff would have already. 🙂
The institution of Prima Nocta - as in the right of a monarch to perform sexual acts with a bride after her wedding with another subject - is debated to ever having existed. The majority of historians believe it’s just a myth, due to the complete lack of contemporary medieval sources.
@@brownlandcleve3786 yeah, I don't doubt that it's overblown. Most likely it happened once or a few times because of one particularly overzealous lord and people blew it out of proportion. What isn't up for debate is where Martin got his idea from.
Prima Nocta is a myth. At least not like in ASOIAF.
Perhaps the Targaryen custom of gifting gold, lands and other valuable assets to the mother of a dragonseed was a surviving custom from the dragonlords of the Valyrian Freehold. The tradition of incestuous marriage, already millennia old by the time of the Doom, must surely have had major detrimental effects on both fertility and viability and health of the infants born to dragonlord houses. One way of ameliorating this effect would have been to marry younger siblings off into the other dragonlord houses. This would have managed to slow down the degeneration caused by repetitive inbreeding, but not stop it. After all, How many houses of Dragonlords did the Freehold have? Sooner or later, even this expanded gene pool would begin to look frighteningly unvaried, and the number of miscarriages, still births, deformities and infant mortality rates would once more begin to rise.
This is where Valyrian Dragonseeds come in. Little is said about the non-dragon-riding Valyrians, but I guess we can assume that the lower ranks had the same racial characteristics as the Dragonlords: ethereal beauty in male and female, purple eye shades and silver/gold hair. If so, then they, too, may have had the potential to become dragonriders. Whilst the Freehold may not have had the custom of the 'first night', the menfolk might have been free to seek love outside the marriage bed... and, for all we know, so might the women. Until and unless GRRM clarifies the matter, it could be that any child born out of wedlock was considered to be part of the House the dragonlord parent belonged to, with almost all the rights and privileges given to trueborn offspring, especially if those trueborn ones kept dying at birth or just afterwards.
It wouldn't be the first time the Targaryens kept an old Valyrian tradition going when those around them didn't. From what I understood from 'Fire and Blood' the only thing Orys Baratheon didn't have was the Targaryen name: do we assume this was the family name of his non-Targaryen mother? Dragonseeds in the Valyrian Freehold might have done the same, adopting the family name of the non-Dragonlord parent but still considered part of the house. And if the dragonseed's parent had other, 'pureblood' children, the dragonseed was wed into the family, keeping the bloodline together with fresh genes slipped in...
So how did all the husband's of all these wives that had to have sex with their Lord's handle this? Since with your info, even the Valyrians had a system of having a lot of these "dragonseeds" that would eventually marry back in the family, did none of the men of the lower houses ever question this?
Are you really trying to bring science into a fantasy story with dragons😆😂🤣
@@ibrahimmustafa2481
Well, I feel it may not be too far fetched. Wanting to add fresh blood to the line so they don't have as many issues... well, may not be too out of the question
@@thalmoragent9344 it’s fantasy. The most logical answer to it would be magic.
@@ibrahimmustafa2481 -to paraphrase a famous science fiction writer " Any technology that's different to ours is going to seem like magic..."
Besides, magic still follows certain laws and rules, even if those laws and rules match nothing we understand. And if the issues the Valyrians and Targaryens had with fertility and viability was simply down to magic, why didn't they use more magic to correct the issues?
The humans in GRRM's world understood enough about genetic inheritance to understand incest was dangerous, and therefore, banned it. The detrimental consequences of the Targaryen custom of wedding close relations to each other simply compounded the issues since the only Valyrian bloodlines inexistence were them, the Velaryons and the Celtigars, and of the latter two, the Velaryons were favoured. With such a small gene pool, even without the continual inbreeding, the Targaryen line was doomed to extinction sooner or later,
The only dragon seed I’m interested in seeing is Nettles
Yep! Also, the valyrians were also sheepherders before they tamed dragons so perhaps there is something to that!
@@verttisahala8457 yo that’s a great point!
Daughter or lover to Daemon? My money is on daughter.
Hugh and ulf id love to see because they are pretty much dragon rider bronn
@@wezzas tf are you talking about?? Don’t think it was his literal daughter
Planted
Gg's
I see what you did there🔥🐲
LMAO nice double entendre G
Okay, apparently it has to be said, because I though it was a common knowledge - first night was not a thing, especially not in Middle Ages. Sure, lords raping peasant women were sadly not uncommon (they did have a lot of power over them and it's not hard to imagine some abusing it), but putting it into law would be preposterous even then. It was mostly a literary trope, like when you wanted to show a noble of being a tyrant, you made him participate in the first night, or when you wanted to slander him, you said that's what he's doing. But there is no evidence it was ever an actual law.
Yeah, it's wild how old that trope actually is. That was the main inciting incident in the Epic of Gilgamesh, probably one of, if not the oldest living hero story in the world.
Nettles has a Targaryen blood , they summoned only dragon seeds , they would not let some commoner to tame a dragon. Like come on ? She most likely Daemon daughter who advised her how to tame one.
for me the most interesting dragon seed is Addam the Loyal
There’s a theory that Nettles is part Child of The Forest. If that’s true it’s fitting that her name is Nettles, like Leaf.
I named my cat Seasmoke because I loved Addam and Laenor so much
i fell in love with game of thrones and i started watching your channel to learn more about it,it was so confusing at first but thanks to you i know more about asoiaf lore than our world history hahaha upload more often plsssss🤘🏽
I guess it would be hard to find the right actors with the ability and look. But I always pictured the Targaryen’s to be so beautiful nobody could touch them and the actors just never seemed “unbelievably Beautiful” as I pictured them
It's like Jaime and cercie the acting was phenomenal but when you look at them out of context from pure physical features alone you would not think it's the characters from the books
Once again my guy coming with a dope video full of knowledge on our favorite series 🙏🏾 Bless you man ⚡️⚡️
The first night thing has been thought to happen in medeival europe but later scholars just think its a myth and more to do with asking lords for premission to marry
The audacity of Hugh Hammer is hilarious. Bro thought he was the shit 💀
I like to think that Jaheryes really did end right to first night in real medieval time.
No, in the real world "la prima nocte" is a myth. If lords really started this trend even with their serfs instead of vassals, they would be dead within the year.
Marriage is sacred to the catholic church , you don't want to mess with it no matter your status
You speak of Prima nocte, and it was infamously real.
It was as unpopular IRL as one would expect, but it seems to be less hated in some places in Westeros. I’m just saying the chance to have a potential magical kid that can ride dragons…?
Plus they get presents. Not like gift cards either but like riches.
And remember that the smallfolk had been taught for a while that the Targs were “exceptional” and despite Grrm being extremely altruistic, he has made most of the big houses have defining traits that are desirable.
Targs don’t get sick (as often or as severely). They often can see future. They can brush off small fire damage. Etc.
On a totally unrelated note
You should do Wayne(bruce wayne) family tree
A lord seeping with a woman on her wedding night was a real thing in medieval Europe known as prima nocta. It was popular in Scotland as a way of trying to breed out the Scottish by leeting English lords sleep with women on their wedding nights.
Lol you've been watching too much brave heart
My bet is that the 4 dragonseeds minus Addam were all daemon’s kids. Ulf and Hugh had daemon’s negative traits.
I think they were to old to be Deamons possible Bealon and Aemons bastards
Yoo im at work bored thank you whycreate💛
You're right. It did indeed happen in our world. It's called Prima Nocta or the Right of First Night.
I'm sorry to disappoint but we have no prove it ever did happen the first accounts of the concept showed up hundreds of years after the middle ages at a time when people tended to either romanticize or condemn the middle ages to a laugable degree. Not saying that no common woman was ever raped by a noble man but there was no law giving you the right to do it mainly because the King who would put that into action would have put himself on the churches bad side and pretty much no one was willing to risk that and endanger ones own power.
Classic example in modern day is the movie Braveheart. Also known as "Droit du seigneur"or Lord's Right.
@@PRLake007.1 im sorry but if you think Braveheart is historically correct in any way you really need to rethink your understanding of history
@@nomorok15 never said it was historically correct, how ever the reference to a Lord claiming first right to a new bride was made.
@@PRLake007.1 well than I apologize for the misunderstanding I guess I am scared by the discussions I had with people who genuinely believed movies like this depict real history good on you for not falling into that trap Hollywood has sprung :)
8:15
Oof, welp, at least the lie/secret got out, so she was found out in the end 👀
The bedding tradition actually happened in the medieval times it was believed that the more men "spread their manliness inside the bride" the stronger her child will be.
And also it was a way to know the bride wasn't a virgin anyways its pretty disgusting.
Yeah this is not remotely true, it was something made up by the Scots to rile up their base and get them to fight for independence, nobles raping commoners was not at all uncommon, but it was never on a wedding night and it was never codified into law, there is zero evidence of it outside of a few RECENT literary works where it was used to show how bad the tyrant noble was. But yeah, just to recap, this was Scottish propaganda and never happened (Source: Not a full on historian, but a student of history *AND* Irish, i'd love nothing more than to shit on England lol)
It happens in modern times too, it’s called a Gangbang or Orgy😆😂🤣
So did Nettles have any valyrian blood in her or not? It seems like yes as she was a common girl of dragonstone which we know a lot of Targaryen slept with people of the island. She might have been one of those bastards
7:33 Why cant it be faceless men? Just once theyd charge a lot to kill 2 potential king would hav been cool
i've got a question is house valyrion still in the current time peroid when the books take place?
Yes. They're allied with Stannis.
Yes there is a bastard of the house and an infant
We've finally gotten ulf and hugh on screen!!!
Maybe Sheepstealer laid the eggs that would later be hatched by Daenerys 😳
Dreamfyre
Please do a video about the Dance of the dragons
No cap whycreate is carrying
Hugh Hammer must have thought himself thee shits after mounting that dragon bro changed his name 😂
How did the dragons die out? Wouldn't the targaryans be super keen on breeding a lot of them? Also how'd they return?
Love these lore videos, 👌
they had 20+ dragons , man! a dragon is not a horse. there werent many targaryen riders around! if they had they would have second valyria in Westeros.
The dragons in Westeros went extinct after the dance of dragons, where most of them died, and the rest was kept in captivity, resulting in the decrease of their strength and size.
Daenerys' dragons were probably born because she killed Mirri Maz Duur in th pyre
It's also believed Aegon III 'the Dragonbane' who ruled after the Dance of the Dragons may have made sure these dragons all died out. After all he was heavily traumatized by the civil war in which he almost lost his entire family and watched his mother being fed alive to a dragon.
@@taurinvandenbrand7574 I honestly think the “Dragonbane” nickname Aegon got was more of just slander against him honestly. Sure he was traumatized his whole life and wasn’t too fond of dragons, but he did try to hatch more with it being stated he even tried to bring mages from Essos to hatch a collection of eggs, which is very reminiscent of future hatching attempts such as Summerhall.
People blame him for the death of the last dragon, despite it being said that it was “sickly, small, misshapen, and stunted, with withered wings.” In all likelihood it just died naturally.
Point is the “Dragonbane” idea just sounds more like propaganda against him by political rivals than an actual provable fact.
In all likelihood he was just the unfortunate bloke who happened to be king when they died out, if his brother Viserys was in his place at the time he likely would’ve been given that same treatment despite his very pro dragon stance.
@@brendan9868 i do agree with you that the name is probably slander from his enemies, but it is clearly stated that Aegon III hated and feared dragons, and would never go near one. True, he did bring nine mages over to try and hatch some new ones, but this was only done after the urging of his brother/ hand of the king who had convinced him that dragons could be powerful tools against their enemies.
So maybe in the end he only tried to bring them back because of his brother, fearing that mayhaps another rift would come between him and his only friend.
Also Aegon III left most of the day to day governance of the realm to his brother so maybe prince Viserys made all the plans and Aegon III got the credit because he was the king.
I actually also do not believe Aegon III was behind the ending of the dragons, I only think its possible.
I guess we will never know until old Georgie will release Blood and Fire.
Like RH negative blood types in the real world. Means we are a mix of different human species.
I've watched many of your video's & am truly a fan of your work. That being said. I have to respectfully disagree with your opinion on Nettles heredity. I say this because historically having some "blood of the dragon" was always necessary to have a chance of bonding & becoming a dragon rider. Also there are a number of examples of true born Targaryens who did not share the typical valyrian features. Themselves having dark hair & eyes. So it is my humble opinion that Nettles does have "blood of the dragon" somewhere in her lineage. ✌
Like Dunken the small and princess rheanys
Whycreate you are my favorite ASOIAF commentator, slightly above Quinn's Ideas. I once read a theory that Orys Baratheon's mother was a Bastard of Storm's End. Are there clues or textual evidence of this?
I woke up at the perfect time 🥳
How did Nettles afford those sheep
i love this channel tho
The right of the first night, like the oubliette's mentioned in asoiaf has been believed to have existed in medieval europe, but current historians don't believe it was ever real (well, some very small cells were a thing in the holocaust, so those might count as oubliettes to some, but that was not medieval). While torture was common and while no doubt some noblemen abused their powers to rape with impunity like how Roose conceived Ramsey (if hollywood bigshots do it now, some feudal lords did it for sure) these particular customs were adapted by GRRM from popular portrayals of medieval times, not from actual history.
What are you talking about? There are loads of examples of oubliettes
@@jakehopkins6989 I've checked on the internet and I'm not sure anymore. I got it from the wikipedia article on dungeons a while back, but that one is poorly sourced. I found contradictory claims in other places, with some historians claiming they existed and some other historians claiming that most or all of them are storage places mistaken for cells. At least one person on quora had pictures though, along with the claim that human bones were found, so they probably did exist. My mistake.
"Primae Noctis" is the word that was used
I am the dragons daughter 👍blood and seed of Aegon the Conqueror 👍
🔥🔥🔥🐉🐲🐉🔥🔥🔥
2:30 yes it happens. Saddam Hussain's son, I think, used to crash weddings like that.
My dad did too
Prima nocta. Sadly it is true. Braveheart shows it pretty accurately
Prima Nocta was a northern European tradition.
we can now agree the books are not coming out
You got me incredibly let down, Dragonseed is a badass early PS1 game, deep down i knew they wouldn't be connected...but i held out hope XD
I love staying up late at night :D
Would'nt it have been badass ass if the Velaryons had bad ass sea creatures they could control? Since the Targs have dragons.
They have. The Seahorse on their sigil 🤣
Sorry, I couldn't resist. But hey they have the Velaryon fleet and are capable seafarers 😉
@@Saspuer26 lol
Nah it would make the balance of power to even and even is boring
The Dragonsneed
"First Night," is a myth, and was not a thing in real life.
Thanks
The phrase prima nocta, based on the Latin “first night,” is a shortened and corrupted from jus primae noctis, “right of the first night.” It generally names an ancient tradition in which all noble lords, whether kings or dukes, had the right to have sex with any of their female subjects-regardless of their will and even with a virgin bride-on her wedding night. Yeah its real
Lol she was deleted from the show
Nettles did what the first valerians did. They were sheep herders.
Why does Orys Baratheon look so... Not even close to valyrian? The seed is strong
the seed is strong because it is targ seed, there many targs with non valyrian looks: jon, baelor, rhaenys,orys, rhaegal, duncan...
@@thetalesofelbek7042 Duncan!!!!!!!”?”
@@ibrahimmustafa2481 Duncan Targeyrian, son of Aegon the Unlikely
The eggs were stronger.
WC!!!
House🏠🐲 of the dragon🔥🐉🐲 will be epic.
If Orys Baratheon was a bastard, how come he doesn't have a bastard surname?? I think Orys Stone would of been his bastard name.. What do you all think?
Probably because the targs were really trying to get accustomed to westerosi tradition like the faith of the seven. To have a bastard as your right hand would most likely be seen bad by the faith.
“Mud brown skin and dirty appearance” ....wow really ...
Does that fits your appearance?
Wedding cousin folks wives on their wedding night did happen to assault Prima nocta
In fact if I recall it happened in Scotland
No nettles only rehea
... RIP 😭🤣
prima nocta, prima nocta, prima nocta
Hey brother, love your content, have for years... but have you given any thought to the fact that GRRM doesn't know how to tie the loose ends in his novels, including danys heel turn. Speculation is pointless, stick with the histories
Now you know why Corlys Velaryon's ethnic swap will distort the plot. Yes, it's a stretch to please a demographic.
They cast Matt Smith as the goddamned Rogue Prince, it's not like they give a shit about making sense.
@@tereziamarkova2822 Making sense? Matt Smith is a great actor.
Distort? We haven't seen a trailer and you are already complaining.
@@ianvera4299 No need, I will watch it anyway but it's clear that it will have major changes to the plot
@@ianvera4299 I know, and I don't want to insult anyone's taste, but Daemon Targaryen is supposed to be this dangerous bad boy, this handsome manly man, and Matt Smith... Doesn't look like that.
In the times of the middle ages where england ruled scotland there was a same kind of rule. Where the english lords got the oppurtunity to sleep with the newly wed wifes of the scottish lords. One of the reasons why they rebelled!
Actually prima nocta was just peasant rebel propaganda.
Oh yah
Oh yes it was a real world thing and after it was dropped from law the expectation still existed like with Bolton and Glover. I'm taking up to the 19th century in some places. And it wasn't confined to a wedding night , just a party at the big house . ( so my grandmother said )
Your grandmother a) knows more than any actual historian (because we have no goddamned evidence that was a thing) b) made this up.
@@tereziamarkova2822 seriously ? made it up . That's funny she didn't make it up ( she wasn't one of the girls chosen) and this was late 19 and early 20s century she was talking about. And I have other stories that dont have documentary evidence but there is DNA evidence. Please dont pull documentary evidence and historians on me . And yes on certain subjects I credit my late grandmother more that any cambridge historian or oxford don or Harvard or wherever. I'm a historian myself I argue with them everyday . And I say there is no documentary evidence on what I said but actually there is on this subject. My grandmother never lied ( she might remain silent on a subject but never lied , and for what reason ? Sand old dying woman talking to her children and grandchildren telling a story than was common knowledge in the town , and many other towns like it .
Niceee
If I might offer a bit of constructive criticism, you have a tendency to drop your volume at the end of your sentences. You start speaking at a good volume, but you barely mutter that last 3 or 4 words of each sentence and it's hard to understand what you're saying.
Yes it totally did happen in real life! Roman Empowers and lesser lords were well known to practice It was also fairly common in Scotland, China, Kurdistan and Hawaii. The most commonly used name is Droit du seigneur meaning “Lord’s Right”.
Roman Empire had slaves so of course things like that happen, but other than that NO.
@@ibrahimmustafa2481 except it did happen
So they have a dark skinned character but chose to switch House Velaryon? Curious.
its fiction
@@mar1205inspired by reality the black valaryons are stupid
235 am
Damn you spoiled a lot
Second!
First
First