Ups & Downs From Star Trek: The Next Generation 3.26-4.1 - The Best Of Both Worlds
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
- An event still informing the franchise today.
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"Mr. Worf, fire," marked the beginning of the longest summer of my life, before and since. Being ten, nearly eleven years old, I simply didn't have the capacity for patience to wait for the continuation.
Young and old trekkies alike had high blood pressure for an entire summer all over the globe LOL.
For me personally, this episode didn't have as much as an impact because TNG had long since concluded. I still love the episode even to this day, but like Worf said to the chief in way of the warrior "I never doubted the outcome we were like warriors from the ancient sagas, there was nothing we [they] could not do" I'm 29 now, and I was in high school when I started watching Star Trek, thanks to the JJ Movie piquing my interest and tng was what I started on as The original series can be a little much for a young kid who's used to modern cinema and television but was able to watch it after I finished tng because I was just in love with all things trek at that point.
I've always felt this duo should be considered a trio. Considering these two episodes without it's direct followup "Family" misses SOOOOOO much of the aftermath and true cost of Picard's assimilation. It's a third act that elevates this from a great pair of episodes to true art.
It is a different story, it's the aftermath of *this* story, yes but it's a different story. This is ultimately Riker's story, is he ready for command? Whereas Family is Picard's story of accepting and beginning to overcome his trauma.
This comment gets my Latinum Up
Agreed!
I agree. Yes he has the fight with his brother, yes there's his Ahab attitude in First Contact, but I don't feel we really see how damaged he is until the first season of Picard when he has a full out PTSD panic attack when he steps foot on the Cube.
Yeah! Where is Family??
Two points I think are often overlooked.
First, Shelby declares to Riker, ‘If you can’t make the big decisions, you need to make room for someone who can.’ Fast forward to the end of part I, and Riker immediately decides to fire on the Borg ship with Picard in it, while Shelby is trying to delay. Yes, Riker could make the big decisions.
Second, when he episode was first aired, it was introduced as ‘The Best of Both Worlds’, not ‘The Best of Both Worlds, Part I’. No one realized there was a two parter coming. Star Trek wasn’t known for two part episodes back then, and even less for cliffhangers. That made the episode-ending scene that much more impactful.
Absolutely. I remember sitting on the couch absolutely shout-swearing at the TV when that happened! It was completely unexpected, frustrating, and infuriating.
@@DawnDavidsonI have an idea, since Wesley was technicaly a bridge officer even before going to the academy he could have worn a Provisional Rank Pip like that used on voyager
Was there no - to be continued at the end originally??
@@AvesPasseri-Jinysvet There *was* a to-be-continued at the end - its just that nobody actually *expected* it.
I agree with you but there's one bit of context to be added. Riker fired out of anger not duty. This was explained in part 2 when Riker spoke with Guinan.
How can you not mention Picard shedding that single tear while being assimilated? UP!Direct tie in to the episode Family when Picard breaks down about not being able to fight the assimilation. Phenomenal acting
"They took everything I was. They used me to kill and to destroy, and I couldn’t stop them... I should have been able to stop them! I tried. I tried so hard, but I wasn’t strong enough! I wasn’t good enough. I should have been able to stop them..."
I think Seven’s borg pieces are so integral to her survival because she was assimilated as a kid. She grew in a maturation chamber. Her body doesn’t remember how to survive without it.
Seven of Nine was a child with parents. Her parents commanded a small shuttle called the Raven, they chased a Borg Cube, and got assimilated.
@@Kinglore2000he said that😊
This was my thought as well.
The maturation chamber alters people's DNA. Making people grow faster, and hard-coding the Borg parts into them. Making Seven's Borg parts an internal organ, one that humans don't have. So, they can't remove it and replace it.
People who were assimilated as adults seem to have the Borg parts replacing their own organs. So, Starfleet can just replace the organs the Borg changed back to human parts.
@@Kinglore2000 You just recapping or you got a point?
A little surprised this wasn't mentioned. But I want to add one "Up" In Part One, it's said that Starfleet offered Riker the command of the Melbourne. Then in Part Two at Wolf 359, the last ship mentioned by Shelby was the Melbourne. They way that Elizabeth Dennehey delivered that line, with just the briefest pause as she almost certainly recognized that was the ship Riker was offered, was especially powerful to me, then followed by the reaction from Riker. Just perfectly delivered in my view as I think they both realize had he taken command, he would almost certainly be dead.
Yes, I remember that moment as well with all the importance said in the looks rather than out loud. Definitely worth an up.
Yep dodged a bullet on that one or more precisely a cutting beam 😂.
Considering that in the episode “Future Imperfect” Captain Riker has the kit-bash of the ship sitting on his desk says just how much it hurt him.
This was great
A line that has always stuck with me was Riker and Shelby in the turbolift after meeting with Picard about separating the ship. "You need to take it to the Captain, fine, through me. You do an end run around me again, I'll snap you back so hard, you'll think you're a first year cadet again."
Sean talked about Shelby's response, but not Riker's admonition of her actions. And he was 1000% correct. Bypassing the Chain of Command is a huge no-no. Especially for senior officers. Having been in leadership positions, I can fully relate to Riker's speech.
In the military ( trek is based off the navy ) I served in the navy and army ( tho not at the same time-LOL ) if you by pass the-X0 ( talking navy here )and go to your captain,he's gonna get in your behind for not following the chain of command.Then your X0 may hit you with a reprimand for that action. Doesn't matter if you don't respect the XO or not nor agree with the way he/she does things.Shelby annoyed me and pissed me off for doing that.
@@user-be7tc2bd6e Admittedly, Sean annoyed me by saying Shelby was "subservient" to Riker. She was 'SUBORDINATE" but as is evidenced by the episode, she was in no way subservient to him.
I feel you missed an up with Troi being the one telling Riker they because he was in effect, the captain, he can't leave the ship. It was a good character momenf for Troi and Riker.
I go back and forth on that. She's right but I'm not sure it's a conversation they should be having in front of the whole bridge crew
whose rule is it about Captain's missing out on away missions. That's RIKER'S rule not Starfleets. I mean, any other show in the franchise, Kirk is the first one to jump in the shuttle or transporter pad, Sisko just as much, as well as Archer and Janeway, Pike and Burnham.
@@andrewmurray1550It’s probably Riker’s rule but it’s maybe also Starfleet best practice at the time. Might not have been the case in the 22nd and 23rd century, and Sisko and Janeway were in slightly unusual situations.
Or maybe it’s mostly the CO’s discretion but as a practical matter they’ve got to have an XO who’s on the same page so they can work effectively together. Either way, Riker was momentarily forgetting his role had changed and accepted his subordinates’ reminder pretty professionally. Could’ve been done in the ready room though. Or just put more diplomatically.
@@andrewmurray1550it should be a Starfleet rule. CO should be safe. Even not the XO should be going down. Or the chief engineer, chief OPS.
You'd have specialized away teams on a ship with 1000-1500 crew
@@andrewmurray1550I believe it was during Farpoint that Riker mentioned this regulation.
16:04 Why yould you send your chief medical officer? Would YOU want to be the one to tell Beverly she's not on the mission to save Jean-Luc? No thanks.
We need a T'Ana goes to save Shaxs type moment in a future Lower Decks episode
You forgot Riker ordering Wesley to ram the Borg ship right before Data said he had a plan. Showing both how serious it was, and how Riker was absolutely able to make the hard decisions.
…and Wesley swallowing his greenness and punching it in.
Oh it’s in Temporal Observations tho.
I'm trying to imagine what it would be like for Wesley setting the course to collide with the cube at maximum warp, then given the order to Engage. Would he have been able to do it? I don't think I could. Would the Enterprise smashing into them at warp 9 have destroyed the Borg cube or not? If I was Riker and it was possible, I would have evacuated everyone to the saucer and separated again, then I would have smashed the Drive section into the cube instead of the whole ship.
I disagree with your "down" at 25:45. To me the show has always implied that Picard's assimilation was unique, that they didn't strip his identity away entirely because they needed a connection with his individuality to better understand humans in order to fully defeat them. This idea was then reinforced by Picard's dialogue exchange with the Borg Queen in "First Contact" when he remembered they "wanted something more than a drone, a counterpart" for her. I fully believe that if they'd done the standard version assimilation on Picard, it would have been impossible to bring him back.
That and also I always thought Data poking around in the Borg systems through his connection with Picard might also have helped sever him from the collective to some extent. I never had any problem with that scene.
Not only that, we see Picard shed a tear as he gets his new arm piece, indicating he still has his humanity/ is aware what is being done to him.
I don't believe Picard was fully assimilated. They didn't want him to be a drone, they wanted him to be a spokesperson. Thats how he was able to overcome the process for a moment. Its also how he was able to be re-humanized so relatively easily. It was not your normal assimilation.
I think the rehuman was easy as he wasn't part of the collective fir very long unlike 7 of 9
Though Hugh was part of the collective a longtime and it only took like 2 days before he started to assert individuality that rapidly progressed after the first instance.
I do agree with the rest as I don't think he was a full drone since he was given a name and spoke differently
Yeah, First Contact explicitly stated he wasn't just a drone.
@scorch2155 , Hugh also wasn't very old. And they also never told us WHEN he was assimilated. Unlike 7 of 9 who we KNOW was assimilated when she was a child. Also, Hugh made it seem like the thought of individuality took hold of the Borg fairly quickly which may explain an easy transition back to humanity...IF the person wanted it. Hugh WANTED individuality when he realized it was an option. 7 of 9 DIDN'T WANT it. So maybe that's why her transition was more difficult.
Or, even if he was fully assimilated, they could have put him higher up on the hierarchy where he was able to keep more of his individuality. Combo that with the borg having his memories and thoughts "open" due to actively fighting Star Fleet and trying to assimilate earth, and Data linking with his implants possibly creating an opening, it makes it easier to see how he could escape the collective.
Spokesdrone?
The most chilling moment to me was the aftermath of Wolf 359, when they are listing the ships and find... the Melbourne. The very ship that Riker was offered earlier. Turning down that promotion was a smart move! 😅
I love the way Shelby points that out. Earlier she was giving Riker crap about his career choices, then she’s listing off the destroyed ships as she’s getting readings on them and pauses just slightly, and puts a bit of a different inflection on “the Melbourne” - recognizing that if Riker had taken that promotion, he would have been dead (or maybe assimilated, though they don’t know that yet) by then. Ms. Dennehy played that moment beautifully.
@rigues ...although... under Riker's Captaincy, Melbourne may have survived....
"He IS a Borg!" said the mighty and loyal warrior Worf with tears in his eyes.
Emperor of the klingon empire for 47 seconds
The reason why the sleep command works is based in reality. Unix systems back in the day didn’t really think about a malicious user (or in our case borg drone.) with the fact that a command can put a whole system to sleep by anyone can perhaps be a problem. Same thing with how early protocols in the web work. Sending unencrypted traffic turns out to be a bad idea now but no one thought that would be an issue when the early internet was filled with researchers and students no one thought they needed it. Same with the sleep command in the borg cube.
I thought the same thing. I loved that the sleep command was the solution.
Former Unix admin here. Yup exactly right
The order to fire from Will still sends a shiver up my spine today. It's one of the most powerful scenes I've ever watched in Trek!
I saw this on TV when it first aired... It was chilling as hell! To this day it is some of the best television I have ever experienced!
Thanks for the great content TC team!
I remember I was on pins and needles all summer waiting to see how they got out of this one.
I saw it on first airing too. However, having to wait nearly three months for the resolution was way too long when I was a child. And as it was the first cliffhanger, it came out of nowhere for me.
@@MarkSherlock Me and my friends as well!
@@40somethingmanchild Me and my frineds in our local fan club debated all summer on how the next episode was going to play out! Before the "internet" was what it became we were doing "Fan Theories"! ;)
" Tell Starfleet we have engaged the Borg."
Chilled me just writing this. Knowing they had no chance, yet the continued forward...
One of my favorite scenes in this episode is when Riker looks at Picards empty ready room chair and asks "What would you do?"
I remember when this was first shown on TV. That TBC had Hubby and me calling out NO! It was a _very_ long three months.
I'm loving this concept of ups & downs of "historical" episodes. Regardless of which ones you choose, I'm going to thoroughly enjoy it.
I would also refer to modern Star Trek overall as "The House that Best of Both Worlds Built". Classic Trek had Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock, Voyage Home and Undiscovered Country to really make it stick in the public consciousness to this very day. But I do not think we would've gotten TNG for as long as we did without this episode nor would DS9 or Voyager been given a chance.
Best of Both Worlds galvanized the Trek fan base. When I was a kid I went to a Trek convention in Toronto and there were people there dressed as Borg and the amount of care and detial they put into their costumes was insane because this two parter resonated so well with them. As a child The Borg scared me more then the Xenomorph, Terminator or any slasher villain and it's because of this amazing show.
Sean, Kris and everyone who made this happen. thank you so much and heres to many more great Retro Ups and Downs (In the Pale Moonlight ;) )
Missed opportunity not having Frakes read the title sequence intro on part two.
Or changing the cast list to show "Featuring: Patrick Stewart". That would've sent a shiver to viewers thinking this would be the end of Picard.
If O'Brien beamed them into the middle of town, shouldn't they be inside the crater?
That's true
O'Brien had to have seen the crater. It was his sense of humour.
suggestion: the transporter beam itself has gained sentience by absorbing echoes of thousands of transportation events, and it's not gonna let its buddies down. now, all we need is for this to become canon. :-/
More like they would have beamed down to what WAS ground level. Then they fall two hundred feet to their deaths.
I got to figure the transporter itself has to have some sort of failsafe. We never see people transporting a couple of inches in the air, for instance, and nobody ever worries that a cat might wander into the space at the last second.
Best of Both Worlds was one of the stories in a series that caused a Great Consequence. Not only was it a great story in an of itself, its consequences also spawned lots of great stories.
Agree. Cisko was a result of this battle as well as later on we discover that Shaw was also part of that massacre. Their lives were shaped after wolf 359.
The "peaceful" federation changed forever after all those events. From Battleships (the defiant) to new weapons and shields (even those from alternate future like the transphasic torpedoes or the armour).
It was explained that Seven's implants couldn't all be removed because she was assimilated as a child. She has far more implants more deeply integrated to her biology. Of course, the Borg Reclamation Project still doesn't do a great job of de-assimilation, as many XBs don't seem to get nearly as extensive of cosmetic reconstruction.
I do also need to mention that Dr. Crusher being on the away mission might not make sense, but the same can be said of literally every other away mission a Chief Medical Officer was part of. Away missions consisting heavily of senior staff is a trope of the franchise that makes little sense on any Starfleet vessel(except maybe Voyager, the Defiant, or the NX-01 Enterprise where the crew count is lower).
And I am giving YOU a down for giving a down to Chief O'Brien because of a running issue in TNG. The rank inconsistencies back then were understandable. He was a background character and they never put much thought into the non-commissioned ranks. They only corrected the issue because he became a main character for DS9 and the error was literally going to be front and center every episode. A systemic issue should not be a down in an episode.
I feel like the writing staff of most of Trek had no real conception of the importance of NCOs. For the longest time it seemed as if there were crewmen and officers and nothing in between. Even when Mr. Roshenko, Worf's human dad finally introduced the concept, there was no special insignia until DS9 and even then it took a couple of seasons to get away from the standard pips.
You should have given an up for the Nebula shots. They looked FANTASTIC.
They just re-used the background plates from Wrath of Khan.
About the nearest help being six days away - at warp 6, normal cruising speed at the time, it would take five days to travel between two stars, or nineteen days to cross a sector. At warp 9.6, the _Enterprise's_ maximum speed, it would still take four days to cross a sector. Given the strategic situation, it's almost certain that nearby Starfleet ships were being concentrated into fleets that could then respond when necessary. _Enterprise_ was acting as a scout - her job was to be way out ahead of the other forces, so they could gather intel on the enemy. It's entirely plausible that there were no other ships within range.They _wanted_ the bulk of their forces to be gathering well away from the possible location of the Borg, to buy time for more ships to arrive.
The Temporal Observations could have included Benjamin Sisko and Liam Shaw, whose trauma at Wolf 359 would become a major part of their characters and directly link them to Picard at a later time.
I think that was why they had a screen shot of Shaw in the background when they talked about it.
@@null6634 Ah! Teaches me for listening to this instead of watching ;-)
@@RickyLeong I had to do something while working.
We got a slight hint of Picard’s mental state, with the tear, not long after Part 2 begins. Huge moment.
UP, for giving a shout-out to the amazing "Wolf 359: The Massacre" video. Be sure to watch the two part "Wolf 359: Prelude" as well.
This is a great idea for filling in that long gap we’re facing between new episodes!
100% agree
Great to see more Ups & Downs whilst we're in a slight mid-point between new treks. I personally would love ups & downs of ENT, because more people need to remember it exists, and is actually good, at least in my opinion!
Agreed! I’ve been rewatching it recently. Highly underrated show.
I like the idea of ALWAYS doing the top two episodes from the poll, instead of just the one "winner".
Good point that nobody ever thinks about. In The Best of Both Worlds, when Guinan was talking to Riker, she KNEW Picard would survive because she knew she met him in the 1700's after he was transported there and that event hasn't happened yet.
When Picard looks out the window of the Ready Room I've always taken that scene to not be him traumatized from what happened but that part of him is still connected to the collective. He knows they're coming.
At the time, one of the reasons that the Best of Both Worlds cliffhanger hit so hard was that Patrick Stewart had not yet signed a contract for the next season, so anything was possible here. Picard might have died, Locutus might become a recurring villain and the face of the Borg, and viewers had no reassuring status quo to fall back on!
I love the Temporal Observations theme! Thanks to the whole Trek Culture team for all the content!
21:02 - I liked this scene because I used it when I became a manager 20 years ago. There was a colleague who I had difficulty getting along with. I used the Riker line verbatim to get me through my circumstances.
I absolutely agree with the Latinum Up going to the cliffhanger between S03E26 and S04E01. When they collapsed the two episodes down into one 90 minute ‘movie’, so much of that tension was completely lost. Cutting from “Mr Worf, fire.” straight to the Enterprise firing just wrecks the mood.
17:19 I don't have to imagine, I have very few memories from my childhood clearer than this cliffhanger when it first ran. I was absolutely gobsmacked. And this was back in the pre-internet days, so we didn't know if Patrick Stewart was still under contract - for all we knew, this was them writing him off the show.
Troi telling Riker he shouldn't lead the away team is one of my favorite moments. Done with such professional tone and manner. Her delivery was spot on.
I'd do the pilot episodes - Encounter @ Farpoint, Emissary, Caretaker, & Broken Bow
That would be an excellent series to do.
The first episodes are usually the worst and the finales are actually the best!
This was the first cliff hanger I can ever remember waiting for, and my young mind actually understood what was going on. A very defining story in my life, really. Bravo.
I am actually pleased with the Retro edition of Ups & Downs. Very well done and I am looking forward, or say backwards to more of these videos...
I love the music in this episode: the "retro" title scene and in the temporal observations :)
I was watching Best of Both Worlds Part 1 when it originally aired, and it wasn't until this year that a Trek cliffhanger managed to effect me as much with SNW's Hegemony.
Retro Ups & Downs is FANTASTIC!!! It is even better than what I had hoped! Temporal Observations is awesome in showing how a scene affects the cannon. I hope that you do The Doomsday Machine sometime in the future.
Your number 7 down. The problem at this time Starfleet had no enlisted crew all officers. I'm happy they changed it in DS9.
Very next episode obrien was enlisted.
The uniform issue was just corn.
@@isoroxuk In TNG he had a hollow pip. In DS9 he held rank of senior chief petty officer. I recognized his rank because I was Navy. Yes you are right that was corn.
One of the things that makes The Best of Both Worlds so good, at least to me, is it's the first time that a TNG episode felt cinematic. From the way it was shot, directed, acted, scored... it all felt very much like a movie, and not a TV episode.
remember, there was no internet so we did not know if Patrick Stewart was coming back. I watched this episode with my girlfriend and when Riker gives the episode to fire, we had chills. Great cliffhanger
The reason Riker didn't evacuate the effected sections from the Borg cutting beam is because he was seconds away from ramming the cube and killing everyone on board the Enterprise
This was a ton of fun! I hope to see more of these. One more "up" for me is the score. The subtle Borg theme at the beginning with the cold open is memorable. Then it goes full awesome when Picard says, "We have engaged the Borg." It is fire.
At the 10:00 mark, it wasn't quick thinking by Data to rotate shield frequencies; it was Shelby. Although Data's speed undoubtedly helped to bring it about.
My reasoning for why Picard had the 'willpower' to fight the Borg while literally everyone else did not is because, well, the Borg (and Queen) wanted Locutus to be _different_ than the rest. The fact that he is the only Borg, aside from the Queen, that used the term "I" means that he is, by definition, an individual among the Collective. Therefore, he had some elements of his willpower present where anyone else would have it completely suffocated.
And I watched the first airing of this when I was a kid. I remember laying awake every night during that summer, wondering what was coming. Good times.
One of the things I love about the first part is this growing sense of foreboding, like there’s something REALLY bad on the horizon and we’re totally unprepared for it. They do it so well, with the writing and the music. Even before the Enterprise finds the Cube, we have the colony destroyed and then the Lalo encounter. When they do finally catch up to the Cube, we then have it suddenly change course to find THEM. It’s all so well done and sends chills down your spine.😱👏Anyway, love the new Retro Ups and Downs, especially as you’re still being objective rather than just straight praising one of the best ever stories. One thing though, it was Shelby who came up with the randomised phaser settings to save the Enterprise, not Data. It’s a good scene for the character as it proves that, even though she’s sometimes a full-of-herself, ambitious pain in Riker’s ass, she DOES actually know her stuff when it comes to the Borg. Had she not stepped up then, the entire Enterprise probably would’ve been lost/assimilated, as absolutely no-one else INCLUDING Data suggests anything to get out of the situation. I thought that deserved an Up.
As much as I loved ST: Picard's 3rd season (effectively, TNG season 8), I have to give a massive DOWN to how they treated the Shelby character in Picard. She's supposed to be one of Starfleet's foremost experts on the Borg (during Wolf 359 especially, certainly later), and as such should know a thing or two about the Borg and their behavior. In Picard, it's been decades since Voyager returned from the Delta Quadrant, and I'm certain she would've been scrutinizing every log written about encounters with the Borg. Knowing what she should know at that point, the fact that she would be in support-of or even spearheading the "Fleet Formation" maneuvers that were used in Picard, to great (detrimental) effect, is a disservice to the character as a whole. The fact that she was also only briefly seen before her likely demise to a recently assimilated Starfleet officer, makes it all the worse.
I also believe given her knowledge of the Borg, they should've brought her back to the franchise a lot sooner, as part of the fleet fighting the Borg in ST: First Contact.
There is something you didn’t mention and I noticed as I watched this two parter before watching your ups and downs. The USS Melbourne was the ship Riker was most recently offered command of. It was destroyed at Wolf 359. Obviously the aftermath of the battle horrifies Riker but I think it’s more than that. He would have been DEAD if he took command of that ship. This is why I love rewatching Star Trek. There are things we miss on first viewing.
Very well done on this Sean!
Something I think you missed: When Shelby is identifying the wrecks at Wolf 359, special emphasis on the USS Melbourne, aka, the ship Riker was offered command of at the beginning of Part 1.
Good thing Riker didn't want to go, hm?
I remember watching it back then and thinking that Picard Looking out that window that he could still hear a faint whisper of the Borg and then I saw First Contact and though yeah he heard the Borg Queen.
“We got a whole 3 months to wait for the next part, oh sweet summer child” 😂
In seriousness though this 2 parter is what made me love Trek. Blew my mind as a kid.
First episode of retro ups and downs was totally awesome. Thank you Sean for bringing this new dimension to the Trek experience. And credit to the editor and team who do great work.
I think you missed a couple of temporal observations - Shaw and Sisko's reaction to Picard and both referencing having met him before (I wonder if he gets that alot in Starfleet); Janeway reading Picard logs as Voyager enters Borg space; The Defiant being introduced; T'Pol line in that Enterprise episode with the Borg, where she says they sent a message to the Delta quadrant but it won't arrive until the 24th century...
Thank you so much for this. Already loving the retro Ups and Downs and can’t wait to see more. Hopefully we’ll get some TOS episodes covered.
I personally think you should do the first and second on each poll going forwards. Like we all wanted best of, but clearly there is huge interest in seeing Threshold being dissected.
I always wondered if in the episode Parallels, in the universe where they were fighting the Borg, if Riker had decided to try to stop the cube's self destruct. I always thought that would be been an interesting thing to consider.
The Federation is gone, my beard is everywhere.
Temporal Observations? That is brilliant.
I will say that I NEVER understood how Riker didn't get to keep his field commission. And for those who say a ship can't have 2 Captains, The Enterprise-A had 3 - Kirk, Spock & Scotty. So the precedent is there. Rank and role on the ship are actually 2 deferent things.
I suppose the issue is that there was the assumption that most viewers wouldn't understand or know of military commands where you have multiple officers of the same rank in the chain of command, but the order is determined by commissioning date. With Kirk, Spock, and Scotty? The issue was less problematic (Kirk was an Admiral and Spock & Scotty being Captains, with Spock presumably getting an honorary bump in rank to Commodore when ranks had to be verbally observed) until the finale of "The Voyage Home" where Kirk got demoted to Captain again, but Picard would have needed to be called Admiral if Riker kept his fourth rank pip after Wolf 359 and the defense of Earth, since the Commodore rank was gone from Starfleet at the time, to differentiate between him and Picard if someone just used "Captain" to address one while the other's present.
maybe by the 'nearest help' they mean the nearest Galaxy class, the nearest thing they think will actually be *of* help for this kind of mission. Sure they might've had an Oberth in ten minutes, but it'd explode before the Borg arrived.
The major scene that LeVar Burton missed out on was the one in Data's lab where O'brien took Geordi's place. (Why else would the transporter chief be assisting in that situation? He's no expert on androids.) I sometimes wonder if Colm Meaney did so well with that scene that the writers decided to give him so much more in season four, eventually leading to his starring role on DS9.
I wondered why they were using the Transporter Buff5.🤔
17:17 I don't have to imagine, I experienced it first hand. It was the longest Summer ever, which is usually a good thing but the wait for the continuation was an experiment in growing anticipation.
If you’re doing this, you need to do “Family” too 😊
I could have watched this all day. Watching this episode for the first time (yes OG) lives in my memory with flashing lights
It’s interesting how different people see different things in the same episode, I’ve never seen the aside by the commander about Shelby as more than an off-hand quip in private, locker room talk if you will, and I’ve never seen Shelby’s small breaches of protocol as a big negative because these are essentially times of war.
I would suggest to a younger like Sean, it would come across as creepy, but between old friends, it's genuine talk. Take it from an old man...
@@joerider3769 ah, the ‘my grandmother has never had sex’ paradox, lol.
The fact that you chose "Best of Both Worlds" UP! Calling out the music, yes, so chilling!
Amazing work Sean!!! As a request (and believe me I could do a HUGE number of these for the Retro Ups & Downs, please please please please please do DS9 In The Pale Moonlight. I think you know why :D
Terrific commentary on a great TNG episode. One thing I just noticed in rewatching, in the second part, right after Guinan and Ryker talk in the Ready Room, Riker sits in the down in Picard´s chair, spins the chair and tugs his top down like Picard alway does. He does it again a few seconds later when he gets up. Love it!
A couple of comments. I was alive when this episode first aired, I was an adult. This was the first cliff hangar season finale in Star Trek. We were all in denial that this would be a cliff hangar, well, except a few. I was a little plugged into the Star Trek fandom scene back then. So, a member of the fan club I was a member of, and still am (USS Joshua, quick shout out there) called around and said she'd gotten a copy of the Best of Both Worlds and invited everyone of us to come see it on a Friday night in her living room. Six of us showed up, and spent the next 24ish hours telling people that they'd have to wait and see while we were kind of shell shocked by the ending of this episode. Before you ask, we had a friend working for the local station that aired Star Trek. Fast forward about 2 months and Johnathan Frakes is in Dallas for a Convention. He was asked what he thought of the episode and if he knew what was going to happen. He said he read the script, got to the "Fire," and then turned to the writer, "Then what?" Writer looked at him straight in the face and said, "I don't know, I haven't written it yet." Yep, Frakes was just as frustrated at that point as everyone else.
Wow! That’s kinda cool, that even Frakes didn’t know!
It can be argued that Encounter at Farpoint was the first two-part TNG episode, with the caveat that it may have been shown as a two-hour episode when TNG premiered.
Literally happy for any Trek Content lol
I always liked how Shelby momentarily saves the ship via Data, and she's so in her mind through all the action that she forgets she's standing there. Picard gently and wordlessly puts his hand on Shelby's shoulder, which silently communicates both ways that she's in Picard's position, that she humbly acknowledges that it's Picard's position, but also a little bit of reassurance from Picard -- "You did very well, but this is my ship"
As a Sergeant in the Us Army I was frequently called lieutenant, captain and chief by personnel that didn’t work with me frequently in stressful situations
Guinan has only one scene in each part but is so powerful in her dialogue with Picard and Riker.
This was absolutely fantastic! Amazing job breaking down this all-time, classic! Sean and Kris!
That was great.
People tend to criticize that humans were captured and the queen was present, though the cube was destroyed. But what do we know? The queen might have returned to Borg territory with the newly captured in a sphere.
As we learn in ENT Regeneration, even two Borg drones can take a relatively small amount of material and people and turn it into a functioning ship very quickly, so one could imagine that the wrecked ships were being scavenged and assimilated, even as the Enterprise arrived, but our heroes didn't think to check for it happening. After they left to persue the cube, a contingent of assimilated Starfleet crew in a jerry-rigged junk ship could have zipped off back to the Delta quadrant via transwarp corridor.
As for the Queen, she's a concept, not a body. Even with bees, if one queen dies, another bee is metamorphosed to take her place. The Borg Queen is omnipresent throughout the Collective as a unifying protocol and can manifest anywhere. Or she was simply in Locutus's mind, and Locutus perceived her as being present physically because he didn't yet know how to conceptualise and interpret the nature of the Collective.
Wesley was so good in that episode, I feel they nailed his character here. Also, the gravitas of having to face death at such a young age.
Omg yes finally an Ups and Downs I can watch. Paramount took Star Trek away from Crave in Canada, then tried to claim they're the number one place here to watch Star Trek at double the price. Haven't gotten to see the latest Lower Decks yet cause of it :(
Here in Alberta, if you have cable tv, CTV Sci-Fi on demand currently carries Star Trek STNW, LD, Discovery, Picard, and Podigy. Still waiting for the CRTC to make the cable companies LET us choose which channels we want, and not bundle a bunch of unwanted channels together.
Oh please continue with the retro ups and downs. I've seen these episodes now they're old hat but something about the ups and downs analysis that I'm back 30 plus years ago sitting with friends ( one of which would become my wife some years later and several others no longer with us) at one of the various homes or apartments after our anime club meeting watching TNG and that To Be Continued... leaving us hanging.
9:55 Wasn't it Shelby who came up with that "quick thinking?" Data followed her instructions.
I find listening to Sean geeking out about ships weirdly calming, it is like listening to some sort of geeky meditation. Also, this was just fun.
That crater, where the city stood, reminds me of several times in the Superman comics where Brainiac stole cities from different worlds to collect the inhabitants, by shrinking them down to table-top size.
Shelby's decision to beam down without informing Riker about her decision was (I perceived) her used to have a lot of latitude (as Admiral Hanson said) and also wanting to show she had the right stuff to be first officer of the Enterprise. It is in very sharp contrast to the command structure of the ship, and not acceptable (in any command structure in fact)- but Riker handles it appropriately as a first offense. He future offenses really stem from that idea she's a smart outsider that people need to listen to regarding the Borg. Again- latitude has given her a very strong sense of command and leadership, which has in turn made her difficult for senior officers to keep in the command structure.
Riker understood that the power from the saucer's impulse engines might be needed when the deflector ship needs a big bang, and the necessary defense to survive it and anything the Borg is trying. He was stacking the overall deck in their favor- where Shelby was stacking the one hand they were playing. Her 'big decision' was short term, his was big picture. Yes, he was sandbagging the career he said he always wanted (he was comfortable), but that is different than making tough but very very dangerous decisions just to stand out. It did lower his ability to manage his crew when he made her First Officer. The word reluctantly (although true) potentially undermines the chain of command.
Wolf 359's graveyard was more effective than any big battle since. You don't get CGI overload. Models had to be built and damaged, it had to be planned and sorted, they didn't have to reuse battle shot from previous battles to fill the space in a budget friendly way. We got to see the results, and imagine the tragedy. It's more impressive because it feels real- the way Excelsior didn't feel as real in Voyager's Flashback. You could tell it was computer made, not a physical model.
Just my .02
Man id love to see a video for the episode Family at some point in the future it really hits home what Picard was going through through after the events of the best of both worlds.
I think we're close to the same age, and I'm assuming you watched this as a child too. It really was the most intense, chilling pair of episodes I'd ever seen as a 5 year old. Every time I watch this episode it gives me the same feelings.
That rationale behind having a Constitution class at Wolf 359 was also used for having the USS Odyssey be a Galaxy class in "The Jem'Hadar"
Side note. Shelby was such a distinctive character that, prior to her appearance in Picard, Star Trek author Peter David had her as First officer of the USS Excalibur in the series of novels of the same name. The first Excalibur in the series was an Ambassador class ship like the Enterprise B...
And when the Excalibur did an Enterprise in one of the later novels? Got upgraded to a Galaxy-class 😂
The reason you still see the earlier uniforms on background players is that they still used those uniforms in season 3 to cut costs. At the time, they felt it was unnecessary to spend the money to make new uniforms for bit players in the background. It wasn’t until later seasons that everyone had the newer style of uniforms, thanks to fan feedback. But even then, it was noticeable that they had merely taken the old uniforms (with the front zipper) and adapted them to the new style for background players. That made it easy to tell who was instrumental in the plot and who wasn’t.
Love this idea!
One question is. There any connection between admiral Hansen and 7's parents?
If the spelling you chose for the admirals surname is correct for his character? A possibility and an opportunity to explore the idea of three generations of the same family getting killed or assimilated by the Borg in the span of 11 years (Seven and her parents had been assimilated since 2356, the Admiral dying at Wolf 359 in 2367).
Must point out a few things.
1.) Help was six days away because, as Picard tells us in his log report, Juret 4 is "one of the Federations *outermost* colonies," meaning they're in the boonies out there.
2.) The quick thinking about fluctuating phaser resonance frequencies (which allowed them to get free of the Borg tractor beam) was from Lt. Cmdr. Shelby; Data just carried our *her* idea.
3.) In Wrath of Kahn, they were in the Mutara Nebula; a different nebula from the one here in Best of Both Worlds, even though as you said, they were just reusing the same footage with a few alterations. Still, technically, it's a different place.
4.) I don't see a problem or continuity issue with O'Brien beaming the away team back onboard. He beams people places all the time. After all, at *that* time, he was the Transporter Chief, as well as being a Lieutenant.
5.) Data didn't just reach Picard without effort. He had to establish a 3 - stage neural link, possibly assisted by drugs from Dr. Crusher (although that's never said or shown). It wasn't easy, and it took no less than Data (a rare technological marvel of genius-level ability *and* origin) to do it. Locutis may have called Data "primitive," but that's just Borg arrogance. And let's remember that one of the thematic points of this episode it to show that, while the Borg are very formidable, they are *not* unbeatable, *if* you can be clever, innovative, and yes, like the Borg, learn to adapt. Riker even said to Worf "We've got to let them know that *we* can adapt too."
6.) One *could* argue that the pilot episode "Encounter At Farpoint" is also a "two-parter," even though it wasn't called that at first, both because it felt like one and because it had the running time of one.
7.) Lastly, I think you missed a "Down," in that the Borg cube, for all its toughness and adaptability, seemed to go down rather precipitously in the final act. You would think such an advanced and adaptable race would have some safety protocols in its technology to prevent this kind of thing. It was a cool ending, but that means-of-winning seems to come a little too easily. Asleep or not, something like that just shouldn't happen to them that readily. So for *me* at least, that one was a Down.
👍 You're correct about everything else. Very Good Job! 👍
@29:42 up for the style changes! "Temporal Observations" great idea! Kept with the format, same but different. Nailed it! Up!
I’d love to see the Star Trek movies included in the polls
So, one thing I will say about the down you had with Picard fighting against the collective ... I really liked the way they did it in the comics, which I still remember vividly from when I was a kid. In 'The Worst of Both Worlds', our Enterprise goes to an alternate dimension where the ploy to kidnap Locutus failed, the saucer section was destroyed, and the engineering hull of the Enterprise is the last Starfleet ship left. The two ships work together and manage to recover Locutus, but they can't replicate the process they used to break him free in the original timeline. Picard, however, realizing that reminding Locutus of Spock, having the shared history of his mind meld with Sarek, was such a deep emotionally charged connection that it was able to reach Picard enough that he could give the command that was needed to shut down the cube.
I love this two parter. Still fantastic all these years later. I remember that summer, very impatiently waiting for the answers. I still randomly quote Worf's "I like my species the way it is" 🖖