Why all the negative comments?? I appreciate someone learning with all of us, learn from their mistakes, learn from your own. Helpful comments are just that... can be helpful. But some of the remarks are quite salty. Idk, to each their own I guess.
Love that you have a grinder now. I wonder if mounting it to the floor or at least leveling your feet would help results any. Thanks for posting! 19:00
Nice video Sir, like the angle plate. Learning myself. Just got my surface grinder going recently. Your newest sub.... I will be checking out your other videos like your style.👍👍👍
A very nice outcome. Did you use a height gauge off camera to ensure each leg is the same width? A feature of the block so that you can swap legs and still be zeroed. Not crucial but handy at times. I see the grinder moving quite a bit. I am assuming it is the wood floor as you have explained in the past? Can you get to the underside to beef up the framing? Might be worthwhile as you are now dealing in tenths of a thousand. Take care. Doug
ya real good that milled steel like that has a lot of stress in the surface so you take 20 30 thou and it starts to curl up on ya wonder if heating in oven like 250-300 letting it cool and doing that 2-3 times relieves those stresses big angle plate like that some of the projects I could imagine are a compound 5c collet index on the right welded side a slip on deg. calibrated collar the other side a round roatery disk to bolt the index to and a stem in between to connect them or a real solid hight adj. and angle adj tool rest for the bench grinder angle plat the big stuff can be hard to find like 10" web 3/4 thick
If you want to reduce the stresses, put it in the oven at about 580 Celsius for 6 hours and then a slow cooling at a rate of 35 Celsius per hour for 14 hours. After that the piece doesn't warp anymore when machining, unless doing some very heavy roughing, in wich case a second heat treatment is adviced.
Why use the smallest surface area as your datum?----it does not make sense-----you should have done the biggest surface areas first then put it straight on the mag for the smallest areas
Why not weld a plug into that big hole? You had to setup the welder to weld in the braces. I would think you can weld in a plug and braces, than start all the machine work.
If you think about it, the matching lack of squareness between import and "roll your own" makes sense. You basically copied the error on the import onto your home made, in both the fly cutting and grind steps. To correct it (using the same import fixture), set the fixture, measure that "airgap" with a square and feeler gauges, then shim the mating faces an equal amount where the airgap exists. That will kick the outboard end up, compensating for the outboard down condition which caused the inboard end to be ground deeper. Then, after your homebrew angle plate is right, you can use it to correct the import one. Either way, nice job of converting rough hot angle to a useful tool of equal precision as your store bought example.
I have no idea, but it seems like best practice to grind the long edges after the flats are ground. That way you can ensure the perpendularity of the edges. Overall, great work though. I enjoy your content.
Hi Lee: The final result was a functional angle block for most applications. My advise to you is that if you decide to finish the other piece, to leave it as is. Because even f the block overhangs 1/2 the width of your mill table on each side, is perfectly OK. You never know when you might have to work with an oversize work piece on your mill.. In some cases is also acceptable to extend the width of the table, by attaching a thick plate to provide support to oversize parts. Cheers Jorge
great video, love seeing projects that turn a piece of regular steel into something that can be used in the shop. excellent project for a man like me, who has more time than money.
You were mentioning the look of your welds. On a machinist forum I used to frequent a guy said he goes over his projects with Bondo body filler and grinds, sands and paints. Slick idea you have there and cheap for backyard machinist like myself
Love it, make your own and enjoy your life, learning is power and quality grows from making things for yourself, but for this pair of machinists there is that feeling that explodes out of us, that pride of making our own parts and our own precision tools, or at least the best to our abilities. Also I like making things in a pair just like you are doing.
Quite a challenge Lee and cumulatively a lot of work - great chance as you say to give the surface grinder a workout! Sure wish I still had my small unit that had to go when I moved. Looked a pretty darned good result but as someone else mentioned, it might have been useful to weld a plug into the hole first. Gratifying exercise for sure. :).
Lee, Just a suggestion, you could use a test indicator to square up the surfaces. With a little patience, you should be able to get them square within a thousandth. Nice video and great project. Thanks, John
I just brought home a Do-All D-8. I'll probably do some parallels and angle plates as first projects. Getting acquainted with it will probably be a simple cube of no particular size. First I need to finish getting the table and spindle drive motor back on it, and decide exactly where it's going to sit. If I put it where I originally thought to put it, I'm going to be punching a hole in the wall with the table. I just may have bit off a little more than I can comfortably chew with this one.
You are doing a good job about explaining why and what you do, but at just around 19:24 you can see that the first side's finish is full of ripples, the same ones I have on my projects in both my mill and lathe, when the setup is not ridgid enough, and with all the other work you put into this project, I can't imagine that you are satisfied with such a finish.
I like the whole idea of what you did here. Seems like it might have been a good idea to stress relieve this in a 500 degree oven for a few hours before final grinding to keep it more dimensionally stable over time.
Nice quick job however If you shim the store bought angle when you grind you should be able to get your angle iron within .0002" just saying. Thanks for posting.
I think you came out with decent results. As you learned, your work can only be as good as the tools you have on hand! Now make the other one and send it to me! I don’t have any angle plates!
Probably a noob question, but I see the guys with these big mills, Bridgeport, etc.. and they squirt/brush oil/ cutting fluid occasionally, yet the guys with the little mini mills set up flood systems. Is there a reason the small ones need flood vs the big ones? (Big ones the table just hangs out over the floor, and the little ones have cutting fluid catch basin under them)
It really tends to be the other way around, the bigger setups tend to be more likely to have the flood or mist systems. Larger machines are somewhat equipped from the factory (bridgeports have drains in the ends of the mill table ways and are setup to use the column as a tank for fluid). There is no real reason why one could use it more than the other, it's more likely related to how anal retentive the owner is and what materials they mostly work in.
'Store bought angle block'. I don't know about you, but I find the best deals at the box store called Angle Block Emporium, which is conveniently located next to the box store called Spatula City, for all your spatula needs.
Mr pragmatic lee im not a machinist but it is one of my passions so I really cant give u advice but around 25:10 if u look closely u can see your surface plate touches on the corners of the angle plate and has a slight gap in the middle...I don't know if it's because how u have the surface plate on the box and the main support is under the wheels making the plate have a slight concave...And i dont know if u machined the other angle plate but u can see the variations in that one too....
Nice job and a good start. I wonder if you had/made a 2 4 6 block or even a square block of steel, could you use that as a starting point to clean up your store bought angle. I've been looking at angle block kits & wondering how you get a good square to start with without spending a small fortune.
W-MACHINE , You used an out of square surface ( unground bottom of plate) to make first grind. All other grinds referenced off of this one in x and y axis. Pretty basic. Thanks, Woody
You can test for square several ways, Tom Lipton has a good video on using a DTI with a curved edge on a surface gauge. Now it's time you start practicing some scraping to do what the surface grinder cannot. Steel is only slightly more difficult than cast iron. Nice build! Once you start down that road toward greater precision there's no going back. :)
you cant have done much scraping on steel, as it is infinitely more difficult then cast iron and before he gets to scraping he absolutely should improve his measuring techniques
@@janvanruth3485 Ive scraped plenty of mild steel. It is more tedious and requires a good carbide sharpener, like a Glendo, but I dont find it "infinitely" more difficult. It also does NOT lend itself to using a power scraper.I would not even try scraping tool steel. I agree, measurement methods are paramount. You cant fix what you cant quantify.
+jan van ruth th-cam.com/video/8N7FPMJyON0/w-d-xo.html Check out this 29" steel straight edge, at 45:50, with indicator I made a year or two ago. Surface ground and scraped CRS. I have other such steel tooling, just not on video.
Great video but I can get with in a thousand on my mill, you should be with in a couple of 10 thousand with a surface grinder. Hate to say it but do it again
I'm sorry, this one bothers me, and I rarely leave negative coments: - most people that will be interested in making an angle block will not already have an angle block. I'd bet that there's a lot of people that end up here after searching and are quite disapointed. - you decided to use and angle block to hold your piece square without making sure that it's square first? - .003" is really not all that flat for a relatively small surface, that would be off enough to be out of spec for a cylinder head or engine deck surface which is typically over 2x as long, and they can be finished with a large fly cutter on a mill. - Am I the only one that noticed that in the final shot it looks like the left side of the block is not flat with the top of the granite surface plate?
Poor planning, poor execution. Does the spacing of the slots match any machine you own? No? Why bother to slot it at all? You'll need at least two slots to bolt the plate down. Why duplicate a poorly design import angle? Didn't see you sweep the top to get it as close as possible to perpendicular to the spindle as possible before cutting the first face "flat". Your grinding set-up and execution, wrong again. You reference your unground angle plate against an unproven angle and make no attempt to correct for an inaccuracy with a test indicator and shims. You might learn the right way if you'd reference any precision grinding book.
Chatter marks in 99 % of the cases come from an unbalanced wheel, a clogged wheel or running a 3-phase motor on something else than true 3-phase. In some rare cases a worn belt can do that too.
Hello.... Just discovered your channel.... good videos!!! Quick question.... I am a steamfitter/welder occasionally making up brackets and piping supports but getting more and more into machining with welding equipment, drill press.... a lathe two years ago and am now looking into a milling machine.... PM 727, 940 BUT I WAS CURIOUS whether a milling machine with a quill as your 727 or whether I should be looking for something where the bed is up/down.... I am concerned with the stability... especially when milling heavy steel like this angle iron .....
Why all the negative comments?? I appreciate someone learning with all of us, learn from their mistakes, learn from your own. Helpful comments are just that... can be helpful. But some of the remarks are quite salty. Idk, to each their own I guess.
keyboard engineers that's why lol
Hello Lee I made a few of those years ago like yours I used a fly cutter I didn't think to grind them but I will next week thanks again great video
Excellent video Lee, just name that angle plate the "Mark1" and incorporate any improvements into the Mark 2 and so on.
Cheers!
Love that you have a grinder now. I wonder if mounting it to the floor or at least leveling your feet would help results any. Thanks for posting! 19:00
Nice video Sir, like the angle plate. Learning myself. Just got my surface grinder going recently. Your newest sub.... I will be checking out your other videos like your style.👍👍👍
A very nice outcome. Did you use a height gauge off camera to ensure each leg is the same width? A feature of the block so that you can swap legs and still be zeroed. Not crucial but handy at times. I see the grinder moving quite a bit. I am assuming it is the wood floor as you have explained in the past? Can you get to the underside to beef up the framing? Might be worthwhile as you are now dealing in tenths of a thousand. Take care. Doug
ya real good that milled steel like that has a lot of stress in the surface so you take 20 30 thou and it starts to curl up on ya wonder if heating in oven like 250-300 letting it cool and doing that 2-3 times relieves those stresses big angle plate like that some of the projects I could imagine are a compound 5c collet index on the right welded side a slip on deg. calibrated collar the other side a round roatery disk to bolt the index to and a stem in between to connect them or a real solid hight adj. and angle adj tool rest for the bench grinder angle plat the big stuff can be hard to find like 10" web 3/4 thick
If you want to reduce the stresses, put it in the oven at about 580 Celsius for 6 hours and then a slow cooling at a rate of 35 Celsius per hour for 14 hours. After that the piece doesn't warp anymore when machining, unless doing some very heavy roughing, in wich case a second heat treatment is adviced.
hey that is a good thing to have some fact's and figures to try thanks jaakko
oh man, your grinder is bouncing around from the power feed. need better leveling feet or something.
Why use the smallest surface area as your datum?----it does not make sense-----you should have done the biggest surface areas first then put it straight on the mag for the smallest areas
Never saw a surface grinder where the crossfeed wheel would not disengage while running , looks dangerous
Why not weld a plug into that big hole? You had to setup the welder to weld in the braces. I would think you can weld in a plug and braces, than start all the machine work.
Good job, if you do the other plate I’d make a plug to fit the hole and weld it in before machining.
If you think about it, the matching lack of squareness between import and "roll your own" makes sense. You basically copied the error on the import onto your home made, in both the fly cutting and grind steps. To correct it (using the same import fixture), set the fixture, measure that "airgap" with a square and feeler gauges, then shim the mating faces an equal amount where the airgap exists. That will kick the outboard end up, compensating for the outboard down condition which caused the inboard end to be ground deeper. Then, after your homebrew angle plate is right, you can use it to correct the import one. Either way, nice job of converting rough hot angle to a useful tool of equal precision as your store bought example.
I have no idea, but it seems like best practice to grind the long edges after the flats are ground. That way you can ensure the perpendularity of the edges. Overall, great work though. I enjoy your content.
Excellent work. Would love to have a small surface grinder. I can afford TIME to build things, it's the MONEY that's tight. LOL
Hi Lee: The final result was a functional angle block for most applications. My advise to you is that if you decide to finish the other piece, to leave it as is. Because even f the block overhangs 1/2 the width of your mill table on each side, is perfectly OK. You never know when you might have to work with an oversize work piece on your mill.. In some cases is also acceptable to extend the width of the table, by attaching a thick plate to provide support to oversize parts.
Cheers
Jorge
great video, love seeing projects that turn a piece of regular steel into something that can be used in the shop. excellent project for a man like me, who has more time than money.
You were mentioning the look of your welds. On a machinist forum I used to frequent a guy said he goes over his projects with Bondo body filler and grinds, sands and paints. Slick idea you have there and cheap for backyard machinist like myself
Love it, make your own and enjoy your life, learning is power and quality grows from making things for yourself, but for this pair of machinists there is that feeling that explodes out of us, that pride of making our own parts and our own precision tools, or at least the best to our abilities. Also I like making things in a pair just like you are doing.
Quite a challenge Lee and cumulatively a lot of work - great chance as you say to give the surface grinder a workout! Sure wish I still had my small unit that had to go when I moved.
Looked a pretty darned good result but as someone else mentioned, it might have been useful to weld a plug into the hole first. Gratifying exercise for sure. :).
Back up the hole with aluminum and weld it up. Also the wheel wasn't dressed all the way. I could see it when you spun it .
Lee,
Just a suggestion, you could use a test indicator to square up the surfaces. With a little patience, you should be able to get them square within a thousandth.
Nice video and great project.
Thanks,
John
I like it. I have some angle grinding projects to do and this gives me another perspective on setting it up in the grinder.
Lee, that is awesome work. Thank you for posting.
as you was going to grind them flat anyway you couldve closed the big holes in the angle iron with some welds before machining the grooves intoo them
Thanks Lee. I always enjoy watching you work. I just ordered a new PM 833-T mill for myself. can't wait to get it.
i bet a million people have said it already.. but id be more suspicious of your square than the angle plates. well done n thanks for the video!
Yeah, if the square says both angle plates are out the same amount, I'd be looking at checking the square...
Lee, while your at it, go ahead and regrind your Chinese angle plate. How do you like the Harig 612? I have one like it.
I just brought home a Do-All D-8. I'll probably do some parallels and angle plates as first projects. Getting acquainted with it will probably be a simple cube of no particular size. First I need to finish getting the table and spindle drive motor back on it, and decide exactly where it's going to sit. If I put it where I originally thought to put it, I'm going to be punching a hole in the wall with the table.
I just may have bit off a little more than I can comfortably chew with this one.
That handwheel on the surface grinder looks dangerous ----invest in something that disengages
On mine it has a clutch assembly so it will just break free after a certain amount of resistance . All bet his has the same setup
Great work and cool video! :-)
great, enjoyed
You are doing a good job about explaining why and what you do, but at just around 19:24 you can see that the first side's finish is full of ripples, the same ones I have on my projects in both my mill and lathe, when the setup is not ridgid enough, and with all the other work you put into this project, I can't imagine that you are satisfied with such a finish.
I like the whole idea of what you did here. Seems like it might have been a good idea to stress relieve this in a 500 degree oven for a few hours before final grinding to keep it more dimensionally stable over time.
Nice quick job however If you shim the store bought angle when you grind you should be able to get your angle iron within .0002"
just saying. Thanks for posting.
I think you came out with decent results. As you learned, your work can only be as good as the tools you have on hand! Now make the other one and send it to me! I don’t have any angle plates!
Good to see you back Lee, But I'm surprised at the color you picked! Good job!
I have some Dumore machine tools that color
I found this very helpful. Going to make a pair myself. Enjoyed your video. 👍👍👍
Nice video. Informative and it is always great to see mistakes and the analysis of what might have been wrong. A learning experience for all. Thanks.
Would it be better to use fly cutter before milling reliefs, so have less interrupted cuts? Thanks
Very well explained thru your thought procees Lee, enjoyed~ Richard
Think I would have left it wide and match the slots to the mill table t-slots!
Probably a noob question, but I see the guys with these big mills, Bridgeport, etc.. and they squirt/brush oil/ cutting fluid occasionally, yet the guys with the little mini mills set up flood systems. Is there a reason the small ones need flood vs the big ones? (Big ones the table just hangs out over the floor, and the little ones have cutting fluid catch basin under them)
It really tends to be the other way around, the bigger setups tend to be more likely to have the flood or mist systems. Larger machines are somewhat equipped from the factory (bridgeports have drains in the ends of the mill table ways and are setup to use the column as a tank for fluid). There is no real reason why one could use it more than the other, it's more likely related to how anal retentive the owner is and what materials they mostly work in.
'Store bought angle block'. I don't know about you, but I find the best deals at the box store called Angle Block Emporium, which is conveniently located next to the box store called Spatula City, for all your spatula needs.
vondeliusc - He speaks my language.
There is not a DAMN thing wrong with Spatula City!!!Never been to A.B.E. tho....
Nice
I've been thinking of making one, just flycut finish
Mr pragmatic lee im not a machinist but it is one of my passions so I really cant give u advice but around 25:10 if u look closely u can see your surface plate touches on the corners of the angle plate and has a slight gap in the middle...I don't know if it's because how u have the surface plate on the box and the main support is under the wheels making the plate have a slight concave...And i dont know if u machined the other angle plate but u can see the variations in that one too....
Chris Young ok i see what u mean thats why I asked i was curious....I want to learn anything i can about machining... Thanks for the response
It must have cost a fortune to get it so big and bouncy.
good build Lee....nice to add tooling in the shop
Good for other welding projects. good practice.
Nice job and a good start. I wonder if you had/made a 2 4 6 block or even a square block of steel, could you use that as a starting point to clean up your store bought angle. I've been looking at angle block kits & wondering how you get a good square to start with without spending a small fortune.
The ways of the grinder are probably pretty square, a cup wheel or side wheeling to hit the other faces would make it easy.
Is that camera shake on the grinder ??
Another great video Lee! Came out very nice.
You mentioned in your DRO video a few weeks ago that we could drop you a email and get the name of the ebay seller. How do I get your email address?
Just watch the last 10 seconds of any of my videos. :-) The seller mine came from was development1979*
I have watched that roll by many times and never noticed that, sorry I will have to do better..
W-MACHINE , You used an out of square surface ( unground bottom of plate) to make first grind. All other grinds referenced off of this one in x and y axis. Pretty basic.
Thanks,
Woody
Thank you for posting this.
Great video sir!
I like it
I like it
Nice work
You can test for square several ways, Tom Lipton has a good video on using a DTI with a curved edge on a surface gauge. Now it's time you start practicing some scraping to do what the surface grinder cannot. Steel is only slightly more difficult than cast iron. Nice build! Once you start down that road toward greater precision there's no going back. :)
you cant have done much scraping on steel, as it is infinitely more difficult then cast iron
and before he gets to scraping he absolutely should improve his measuring techniques
@@janvanruth3485 Ive scraped plenty of mild steel. It is more tedious and requires a good carbide sharpener, like a Glendo, but I dont find it "infinitely" more difficult. It also does NOT lend itself to using a power scraper.I would not even try scraping tool steel. I agree, measurement methods are paramount. You cant fix what you cant quantify.
+jan van ruth th-cam.com/video/8N7FPMJyON0/w-d-xo.html
Check out this 29" steel straight edge, at 45:50, with indicator I made a year or two ago. Surface ground and scraped CRS. I have other such steel tooling, just not on video.
nIce...
Great video but I can get with in a thousand on my mill, you should be with in a couple of 10 thousand with a surface grinder. Hate to say it but do it again
All that effort when a quick rub with some steel wool would be just as good!
Great video, these are the best!, making your own tools.
I'm sorry, this one bothers me, and I rarely leave negative coments:
- most people that will be interested in making an angle block will not already have an angle block. I'd bet that there's a lot of people that end up here after searching and are quite disapointed.
- you decided to use and angle block to hold your piece square without making sure that it's square first?
- .003" is really not all that flat for a relatively small surface, that would be off enough to be out of spec for a cylinder head or engine deck surface which is typically over 2x as long, and they can be finished with a large fly cutter on a mill.
- Am I the only one that noticed that in the final shot it looks like the left side of the block is not flat with the top of the granite surface plate?
Poor planning, poor execution. Does the spacing of the slots match any machine you own? No? Why bother to slot it at all? You'll need at least two slots to bolt the plate down. Why duplicate a poorly design import angle? Didn't see you sweep the top to get it as close as possible to perpendicular to the spindle as possible before cutting the first face "flat". Your grinding set-up and execution, wrong again. You reference your unground angle plate against an unproven angle and make no attempt to correct for an inaccuracy with a test indicator and shims. You might learn the right way if you'd reference any precision grinding book.
with all due respect you should be achieving a much better result from your surface grinder , that finish is rubbish you have way too much vibration
are you a machinest by trade you do nice work
Enjoyed Lee!
ATB, Robin
the surface shows a lot of chatter, why dont you bolt the grinder down?
Chatter marks in 99 % of the cases come from an unbalanced wheel, a clogged wheel or running a 3-phase motor on something else than true 3-phase. In some rare cases a worn belt can do that too.
Hello....
Just discovered your channel.... good videos!!!
Quick question.... I am a steamfitter/welder occasionally making up brackets and piping supports but getting more and more into machining with welding equipment, drill press.... a lathe two years ago and am now looking into a milling machine.... PM 727, 940 BUT I WAS CURIOUS whether a milling machine with a quill as your 727 or whether I should be looking for something where the bed is up/down.... I am concerned with the stability... especially when milling heavy steel like this angle iron .....