Hi Keith. I have watched many of your video's & must say I have found inspiration for many of my projects that i have filmed on youtube. I just realised i had not subbed to your channel so i have added it. Thanks for another great video. Regards. Steve.
So, did you send an Allen wrench since it doesn’t have a “big knob”? I was hoping you would have taken the time to make the cap screw so it wouldn’t come out. “Big Knobs” are available at hardware stores with the bolt.
think those grooves in the side is to move and lock the camera forward and backward on the swivel head to balance it on the tripod so it doesnt droop of rise when set in place and let go of the handle with some slight resistance to the movement on 3 axis , might need to add some work to youre mounting plate and cut those grooves in too
Heck of a camera mounting plate! Now I have tripod envy. LOL I have been looking at one of those angle plates, nice to see one in action. Thanks for the video.
I'll bet your camera project was for John at Black Bear Forge......he posted a video about his camera mounts and their variety issues 😊 Nice job Keith as usual.
That quick mounting tripod plate looks like it was made by the Bogan Company. The plate stays mounted to the camera and is made for a ¼"-20 mounting screw. Large view cameras (4x5 and larger) standardized on a larger size attaching screw (⅜" - 16 screws) to attach the camera to the tripod directly or through a quick disconnect device. attaching screws. Since the plate stays with the camera and is not taken off and put back on, a socket head cap screw works fine and there is no need to capture the screw. Countersinking the head allows the quick release camera plate mounted to the camera to slide onto the mating clamping part that is attached to the tripod. The clamping jaws tighten against the beveled sides of the camera plate. These clamps may have a quick cam locking or thumb screw locking mechanism. The angle of the plate and mating part attached to the tripod head is probably 70 degrees, and not 60 degrees as is more common, because the manufacture wants the customer to by their hardware. This proprietary design ideology was one Nikon used extensively to be different in standardizing their cameras and lenses. They chose left handed thread and bayonet lens mounts, something long ago was hard to manufacture and thus thwarted generic lens makers to offer less expensive equivalent lenses. Everything about a Nikon is backwards to the competition design - it is not designed as a better way to make the part. There was absolutely nothing wrong with using the angle plate. I'd ignore all the complaining comments to use a simpler method to hold and angle the part to be milled. Many of your viewers use drill mills in their home shops and the heads can't be tilted. The method you used in simple to set up and you don;'t have to tram in the mill after you are finished.
Lets not forget Mr. Rolingmetal and his Toolmaking Contest entry on the same subject! I don't know where you guys find the time but I enjoy looking for your comments across the TH-cam machinist community!
@@ottoreuter6279 Hi Otto, oh how did I miss this, is this an Emma entry for this camera component we watch (never miss) Rolingmetal heading over there now to watch and YES comment, thank you for helping us. Lance & Patrick.
Nice video and work. I have the same table except in the medium size 7 x 10”. Yours must be the large 10 x 15” size. They also sell a 5 x 7” table. I’d rather not move my mill head out of tram if I don’t have to.
That tilting table sure made that job easier. I had never really considered the reversing advantage of that style. I had always preffered the style like my table because it wasn't so tall but I can see they both have some advantages.
Having both is an advantage, Mr R's will only pivot 45 degrees each way but is low. The other style pivots the full 90 but is tall and can be a pain to set due to imbalance. Personally for a job like this I would use a grinding style vice set at an angle in a mill vice., way quicker and time is money, just wish I had some! 😤
@chris0tube no probs. Come to think of it, I'm, erm, mid ish 20th century myself. But as they say if you want something efficiently give it to a lazy person.
@@steveskouson9620 There was a time when people said that we will never see a Big Boy under power. That time has come and gone. Behold: th-cam.com/video/kvKfu_EGZIk/w-d-xo.html
Quite common for a retainer on 1/4-20 camera mounts is just a thin groove cut just below thread depth and a simple "E" clip. Groove can be cut on lathe with thin parting or grooving tool.
@@dtoad48 I concur- but some scratch protection should be a part of the prescription- as well as the original baseplate. This is why it is very difficult to make a good business model of making camera parts (everyone is an owner-operator...)
Because older photo/film equipment was often powdercoated with a thick layer of black, those slots in the sides relieve the clamping pressure (there's usually a gib in there made of bronze or oilite) and help prevent bulging of the base plate. Also, the correct tie-down for most photo assistants would use a large flat head (or specialty flat head) driver. Check out Candreva USA for a variety of solutions.
New fixture, I'd sweep it with a good indicator and see if it's even close. Right now you have no idea and it could be a mile off. Set it up flat on your mill and move it to your grinder and grind the bottom a bit, then back on the mill sweep it again and you might need to shim but if you think it thru you shouldn't need shims in the end. The table on the angle fixture is probably the flattest part of it so dont go messing with the table unless you like chasing your tail. In the end you might decide to grind the table but more than a few tenths and you'll be back where you started buddy. And put your parallels under your clamps, turn them 90*. I like your videos.
@@Butterbean00 itll warp and bend, its cast iron. Same goes for older iron table saws and the like. Stress relief. I know it sounds like a stretch but itll happen and removing half a thou will make it curl and bend and itll be off by several thou at that point. I know, sounds like typical internet ramblings. It ain't a fairytale buddy.
I've always thought that the indian made tools are somewhat better than their chinese counterparts. I recently purchased a milling machine that does not have a quill (Schaublin SV-51) ... instead it has an articulating milling head. I guess I don't need an adjustable angle plate but instead, I need to learn about feeds and speeds of drills. All drilling must be made by raising/lowering the table (no quill). There is a separate accessory including the quill but that would cost more than the entire milling machine :) As always, Your approach to the task in hands is ... very practical. Thanks for this share !
God no - Indian made tools are far and wide inferior to Chinese - they are at least 20 years behind or 30 years behind. When you see Indian made thing vintage Chinese. And China is also behind Japan by around a decade+.
Mass producing anything that requires accuracy is always either expensive or not that accurate. Naturally the indian as well as chinese manufacturers try to minimize the finishing steps like deburring, cleaning or dressing their grinding wheels often enough. This, of course, makes undesirable variations in the final product. You generally get what You pay for. Accuracy and good finish is equally expensive no matter where the machining takes place. For this reason I did not buy my collet set(s) from a chinese manufacturer - instead I opted on a swiss company. The price is probably five times more but then again, I do not need to worry about runouts or unfinished surfaces in the collets and I only need to buy those once - they will outlast me five times over. In fact most of us cannot afford high quality products so we need to buy then either used or buy an far-east product and do the finishing ourselves. Some products, like collets, are quite hard (literally) to finish at home workshop. Vices and adjustable angle plates on the other hand can easily be finalized back home and are therefore an appetizing item for a home-gamer. I consider them as readily built kits which You need to take apart, finish and then use.
@@tomk3732 Tech doesn't say much about quality though so I don't know why you even brought it up. My 70 year old milling machine probably has better quality than a cheap chinese one built today. But that has to do with the fact that it was way more expensive too when it was new. You get what you pay for.
You could have plunge cut the ribs while you had the same angle on the edges. You’ve got a DRO so would have been very easy to do. A simple turned and knurled aluminium knob for the under side in a relief channel with a captive screw isn’t difficult and a slight relief for some cork or rubber inlay in the top? Could’ve been so much better really.
I believe that camera screw is a quarter inch, 20 TPI Whitworth thread, at least by specification. I have noticed recent inexpensive tripods tend to use a 60 degree thread, but I think that is because it works, not because it is correct.
I'm genuinely unsure. I think the spec (as far as it goes) it 1/4" 20 TPI, slack as hell. The latter part of the spec means that Whitworth versus Sellers thread form is (in practice) a non-issue.
either tilting the head or tilting the angle fixture would both have likely taken about the same amount of time... but using the angle fixture comes with the added bonus of not having to get the head dialed back in perfectly vertical when he is done. Typically it's best to maneuver the part into position rather than moving the machine into position, mostly because when the part is done, you can take it off and the job is done... if you move the machine, then when the part is done, you still have more work to do to get the machine trammed back in because you moved it around. nodding and rotating the head and such is great and can get you out of some sticky situations, but it also creates more work afterwards... if you have the ability to maneuver the part and stay within tolerance, that's usually preferable
Good point,@@cryptk. I'm not a machinist, nor do I play one on TV...and it shows LOL. Several years ago a machinist in our small shop at work made several similar camera adaptors for me and, not having an angle fixture, he tilted the head on the Bridgeport. Thanks for setting me straight on something that's probably obvious to 90% of Keith's viewers.
I tuned in figuring that I'd see a setup using either the nod or the tilt features of the mill's head... or a tilting milling vise... stuff lots of us have in our shops. Using an angle fixture is a bit easier for the machinist... if you have one! ;^) (No need to mess with the tramming of the mill head)
First I'll say that I like your channel and really appreciate the amount of work you and others are doing to make all these videos. I learned a lot from it and use that all the time for my work (I repair musical instruments). That said... also being a photographer, sorry to say but the whole point of those plates is that you don't need a tool to clamp it to the camera. With the slot being so close to the screw head it's not possible to wrap your fingers around it to at least have it finger tight (for situation where it's enough, which with this massive plate... maybe rare). It also won't fit most regular tripod plate screws with the opening handle or slot, which have a larger head than a screw. They could get one of those regular screws and it's pretty simple to have it captured. It's just a a 1/4-20 threaded hole that continues as a slot with a smaller width, not enough to allow the threads to pass. The screws have a relief between the head and threads that passes there. You can get these from ebay or many photography stores. The top padding isn't a big deal, they can glue rubco or anything to it. I guess it's also pretty heavy without any milled parts at the bottom.
If the T-slots in the angle plate were cut after the surface was ground that could explain why it was so messy. Lots of movement when you cut that much material out.
Stoning the new surfaces on an import is good practice as would be checking the accuracy of the angle marks which we did not "see" being done. When off shore companies want accuracy in their manufacturing, do they import fixtures and measuring devices from us? :-)
Nice, funny thing is though in the time it took you to take the vise off and stone that angle plate, you coulda been done with the whole project if you used your vise and a 20 degree angle block, and a vise stop.....or tilt your head 20 degrees, do a little trig math to indicate it in, and use a standard parallel and a vise stop....
I have seen many comments about import tooling . China, India and others. Make quality tools to. The resealing company's import the cheapest tools . This table is 250 dolars . A brand name is at least 15 times more expensive. I have seen several high quality stuff from Asia. Do you think that China Industries is built on scrap tools?
it's the tool resellers and importers who order the crap tools from any company, in whichever country, that makes low quality products and the reason is demand driven. it's unfortunate and also irks the crap out of me to hear generalisations about entire countries' output of precision tools regarded as cheap crap when every country is capable and willing to sell complete shit to anyone with money. nobody is special in this regard.
Agreed. Further, 1/2 the quality for 1/10 the dough is a good deal. Engineers know about appropriate tolerances, right? Not everything is toolroom work.
@Keith, if your friend is interested in adding some cork on the top of the adapter (as I've done with a couple of camera adapters): th-cam.com/video/zMZ2_hkCxrA/w-d-xo.html
Hmm, It seems a job for a surface grinder. Or would junk from grinding cause more harm than good? BTW chipping and shipping often mean the same thing in the long run. Some shippers are careful, but this cannot be assumed to work over a very long haul. My brother is a trucker. He doesn't handle high precision stuff, but stuff gets roughed up on his hauls anyway.. I love your videos, though you might need LA. Lathes Anonymous. God bless you.
I don't think that angle plate is big enough for you mill. You need one much bigger! (Big Grin) Sorry couldn't help myself. I have a much smaller one for my mill. They are handy to have. Thanks for sharing. KenS.
@steve gale - for the frequency I'm sure it gets used, I'm sure it's not that bad. I'm still a young buck (just ignore the gray hair). But yes, I really should retram my mill... Haven't checked in a while.
@steve gale - good point. But, maybe something to do with as the mill wears, the tram would change. I know my tables worn. Re-scraping has long been on the to do list... I rescraped my compound on my lathe, but then never put it back on. Lol. The very seldom occasion I turn a taper is not worth the added benefit to a solid tool post. When I rescrape the rest of my lathe I'll be watching Keiths the turcite videos as my carriage is very worn down.
I ordered and paid for one of those tilt tables from ENCO years ago before they were swallowed by MSC. They sent me 2 by mistake and I still dont think I got a deal. They are no good for anything remotely precise.
The Chinese blew their first hydrogen bomb in 1967. They have put men into space. They know how to do precision stuff. The problem is that that high quality stuff is not that much cheaper then similar quality stuff from Western Europe, Canada or wherever. An cheap Indian made accessory is not intrinsically better then something in the same price range from China.
Vernon Hastings Yeah. For hardware I’d have more inherent trust in stuff from China than India. Not slagging them off, China has just focused and invested a lot more on getting the industry side of thing going.
In India we have both types of manufacturing done one which is cheaper and other which has quality you cant get both here. So it doesnt mean if one of you had got bad stuff from India all others make bad too. You mentioned Harison lathe but did you ever try the HMT NH series or the Psg lathes ??
Actually this statement is pure prejudice. If your importers go to India and buy only the cheapest tools you will get cheap tools. Its a bit like the prejudice against Chinese tools. The Chinese also produce tool of the highest quality, but if you only import the cheapest you will get average or low quality. Are you saying that there are no cheap low quality tools made in the US? I don't really worry what you think, but this China and India knocking gets a bit boring.
he Keith, there is an upside to your sound failure in that it allows you to give a scripted and more detailed description of what we are seeing. It might be a method to use when you have something complex to show us as it would free you from the burden of commentary and allow you to concentrate on the job in hand!
Hi Keith, When I saw the title it reminded me of a clip from John Switzer from Black Bear Forge having a tounge in cheek rant on QD camera mounts. I think you might like it. th-cam.com/video/oa_3cOucA4g/w-d-xo.html I bet that angle plate goes onto the surface girder for truing up before too long.
I am surprised, normally you finish things off so well. I am sorry to say that this was half ass and probably not usable in it's current form. Those things are made for quick change, hence the hand operated fastener .... now if he can use it he will need to carry an allen wrench around with him.
A lot of Starret precision tools arent that precision either. I have Chinese tools that are way better. So what is your point? You can buy a lot of crap in the USA too.
I find the Chinese stuff much better in quality than the indian tools. I have been stung buying tools from india too many times, they seem to make everything out of whatever rubbishy metals they have lying around.
I have tried many cutting fluids on aluminum, WD40 is by far the best. It is epically good on really gummy aluminum. Learned this years ago cutting threads in the lathe on large OD aluminum conduit.
Not as good as a angle plate made in the good old US of A .... But about a tenth of the price .. so buy american and leave the the rest of the world out of it .... :)
Every time you buy such a crap from China or India, you're basically subsidizing outsourcing of American jobs. If you can spend the money, please buy American.
@@erik.... new or used one? But ultimately - I don't care, I was stating a fact, regardless of how much it costs (likely costs proportionally to the difference in quality). How much does a loss of factory cost that community? Buying a used one is even better, you create a restoration video and you have a better product and, as a bonus, you can feel that you saved a few opioid epidemic victims due to loss of employment opportunity. BTW when I was a bit younger I was one of those free-market libertarians, but having seen what inability to provide for his family does to millions of men - and ultimately the whole country, I became the biggest nationalist.
@@thunderstruck1078 Sure I know what you mean. Both my milling machine and lathe are made in Sweden in the 50's and way better quality and same price used as new chinese machines for the same price.. But it won't help jobs to buy used machines will it. If I import tools I will pay 25% import tax and the importer will have a job.
And I thought I was the only one who had someone custom make parts for my cameras! Glad to see I'm not the only one.
Hi Keith. I have watched many of your video's & must say I have found inspiration for many of my projects that i have filmed on youtube. I just realised i had not subbed to your channel so i have added it. Thanks for another great video.
Regards.
Steve.
Thanks Keith really enjoyed watching
Thank you Keith
Always fun to see Keith demo a new tool.
That angle fixture is bigger than i expected it to be! Very nice.
So, did you send an Allen wrench since it doesn’t have a “big knob”?
I was hoping you would have taken the time to make the cap screw so it wouldn’t come out.
“Big Knobs” are available at hardware stores with the bolt.
think those grooves in the side is to move and lock the camera forward and backward on the swivel head to balance it on the tripod so it doesnt droop of rise when set in place and let go of the handle with some slight resistance to the movement on 3 axis , might need to add some work to youre mounting plate and cut those grooves in too
Heck of a camera mounting plate! Now I have tripod envy. LOL I have been looking at one of those angle plates, nice to see one in action. Thanks for the video.
I'll bet your camera project was for John at Black Bear Forge......he posted a video about his camera mounts and their variety issues 😊
Nice job Keith as usual.
That quick mounting tripod plate looks like it was made by the Bogan Company. The plate stays mounted to the camera and is made for a ¼"-20 mounting screw. Large view cameras (4x5 and larger) standardized on a larger size attaching screw (⅜" - 16 screws) to attach the camera to the tripod directly or through a quick disconnect device. attaching screws. Since the plate stays with the camera and is not taken off and put back on, a socket head cap screw works fine and there is no need to capture the screw. Countersinking the head allows the quick release camera plate mounted to the camera to slide onto the mating clamping part that is attached to the tripod. The clamping jaws tighten against the beveled sides of the camera plate. These clamps may have a quick cam locking or thumb screw locking mechanism. The angle of the plate and mating part attached to the tripod head is probably 70 degrees, and not 60 degrees as is more common, because the manufacture wants the customer to by their hardware. This proprietary design ideology was one Nikon used extensively to be different in standardizing their cameras and lenses. They chose left handed thread and bayonet lens mounts, something long ago was hard to manufacture and thus thwarted generic lens makers to offer less expensive equivalent lenses. Everything about a Nikon is backwards to the competition design - it is not designed as a better way to make the part.
There was absolutely nothing wrong with using the angle plate. I'd ignore all the complaining comments to use a simpler method to hold and angle the part to be milled. Many of your viewers use drill mills in their home shops and the heads can't be tilted. The method you used in simple to set up and you don;'t have to tram in the mill after you are finished.
Hi wow you and ABOM both machining camera mounting parts, nice to see and be here.
Lance Patrick.
Lets not forget Mr. Rolingmetal and his Toolmaking Contest entry on the same subject! I don't know where you guys find the time but I enjoy looking for your comments across the TH-cam machinist community!
@@ottoreuter6279 Hi Otto, oh how did I miss this, is this an Emma entry for this camera component we watch (never miss) Rolingmetal heading over there now to watch and YES comment, thank you for helping us. Lance & Patrick.
Nice video and work. I have the same table except in the medium size 7 x 10”. Yours must be the large 10 x 15” size. They also sell a 5 x 7” table. I’d rather not move my mill head out of tram if I don’t have to.
That was a cool tool. I need one now.
Have you tried TA? Tools Anonymous? "Hi. My name's Keith, and I'm a toolie."
Seems like a good candidate for 3d printing too.
Could have milled some pockets to make it lighter and maybe even cheaper to mail too.
THANK YOU...for sharing. Very nice.
That tilting table sure made that job easier. I had never really considered the reversing advantage of that style. I had always preffered the style like my table because it wasn't so tall but I can see they both have some advantages.
Having both is an advantage, Mr R's will only pivot 45 degrees each way but is low. The other style pivots the full 90 but is tall and can be a pain to set due to imbalance.
Personally for a job like this I would use a grinding style vice set at an angle in a mill vice., way quicker and time is money, just wish I had some! 😤
chris0tube hi chris I'm lazy but luckily it's now 21st century so I'm no longer taboo. 😂
@chris0tube no probs. Come to think of it, I'm, erm, mid ish 20th century myself. But as they say if you want something efficiently give it to a lazy person.
Nice work Keith simple but elegant. Hey are you keeping up with the UP 4014. She's almost ready..
Last I heard, she is out and running!
The Challenger is no longer the largest
running steam locomotive, in the world.
steve
@@steveskouson9620 There was a time when people said that we will never see a Big Boy under power. That time has come and gone. Behold: th-cam.com/video/kvKfu_EGZIk/w-d-xo.html
Quite common for a retainer on 1/4-20 camera mounts is just a thin groove cut just below thread depth and a simple "E" clip. Groove can be cut on lathe with thin parting or grooving tool.
No cutouts for leather and no weight reduction cutouts?
REALLY!!??##!!!
Yes- or thin cork- but there are no worries with aluminum scratching up a large format Hasselblad...
The weight reduction is there to save money. The extra weight is better for a mount.
No.
@@dtoad48 I concur- but some scratch protection should be a part of the prescription- as well as the original baseplate. This is why it is very difficult to make a good business model of making camera parts (everyone is an owner-operator...)
Would it be a good idea to hit the table with the stone too before setting the angle plate on the machine?
He did.
Because older photo/film equipment was often powdercoated with a thick layer of black, those slots in the sides relieve the clamping pressure (there's usually a gib in there made of bronze or oilite) and help prevent bulging of the base plate. Also, the correct tie-down for most photo assistants would use a large flat head (or specialty flat head) driver. Check out Candreva USA for a variety of solutions.
Looks like that angle fixture needs some "gotteswintering" on the surface grinder ;)
I did not realize Keith worked for bayer crop science. My wife worked at bayer crop in Memphis. Small world I suppose!
In laying some cork would have been nice to see
Um, who else noticed that you misspoke early on about the two tapers? They certainly aren't parallel and aren't meant to be.
I think Keith was referring to the bevel edges being parallel along the length of the part, as is the slot
New fixture, I'd sweep it with a good indicator and see if it's even close. Right now you have no idea and it could be a mile off. Set it up flat on your mill and move it to your grinder and grind the bottom a bit, then back on the mill sweep it again and you might need to shim but if you think it thru you shouldn't need shims in the end. The table on the angle fixture is probably the flattest part of it so dont go messing with the table unless you like chasing your tail. In the end you might decide to grind the table but more than a few tenths and you'll be back where you started buddy. And put your parallels under your clamps, turn them 90*. I like your videos.
"In the end you might decide to grind the table but more than a few tenths and you'll be back where you started" Why?
@@Butterbean00 itll warp and bend, its cast iron. Same goes for older iron table saws and the like. Stress relief. I know it sounds like a stretch but itll happen and removing half a thou will make it curl and bend and itll be off by several thou at that point. I know, sounds like typical internet ramblings. It ain't a fairytale buddy.
I've always thought that the indian made tools are somewhat better than their chinese counterparts. I recently purchased a milling machine that does not have a quill (Schaublin SV-51) ... instead it has an articulating milling head. I guess I don't need an adjustable angle plate but instead, I need to learn about feeds and speeds of drills. All drilling must be made by raising/lowering the table (no quill). There is a separate accessory including the quill but that would cost more than the entire milling machine :)
As always, Your approach to the task in hands is ... very practical. Thanks for this share !
God no - Indian made tools are far and wide inferior to Chinese - they are at least 20 years behind or 30 years behind. When you see Indian made thing vintage Chinese. And China is also behind Japan by around a decade+.
Mass producing anything that requires accuracy is always either expensive or not that accurate. Naturally the indian as well as chinese manufacturers try to minimize the finishing steps like deburring, cleaning or dressing their grinding wheels often enough. This, of course, makes undesirable variations in the final product. You generally get what You pay for. Accuracy and good finish is equally expensive no matter where the machining takes place.
For this reason I did not buy my collet set(s) from a chinese manufacturer - instead I opted on a swiss company. The price is probably five times more but then again, I do not need to worry about runouts or unfinished surfaces in the collets and I only need to buy those once - they will outlast me five times over.
In fact most of us cannot afford high quality products so we need to buy then either used or buy an far-east product and do the finishing ourselves. Some products, like collets, are quite hard (literally) to finish at home workshop. Vices and adjustable angle plates on the other hand can easily be finalized back home and are therefore an appetizing item for a home-gamer. I consider them as readily built kits which You need to take apart, finish and then use.
@@tomk3732Decade? Japan has been making very high quality tools for a long time. For example Kyoto tools and Mitutoyo.
@@erik.... Decade tech difference. Not the length of making tools.
@@tomk3732 Tech doesn't say much about quality though so I don't know why you even brought it up. My 70 year old milling machine probably has better quality than a cheap chinese one built today. But that has to do with the fact that it was way more expensive too when it was new. You get what you pay for.
That is a HUGE plate, like 3-4 times bigger than a normal one. I wonder what kind of tripod.
awldune it looks like something I used in the 80’s for a video camera.
Or for a large format film camera.
You could have plunge cut the ribs while you had the same angle on the edges. You’ve got a DRO so would have been very easy to do. A simple turned and knurled aluminium knob for the under side in a relief channel with a captive screw isn’t difficult and a slight relief for some cork or rubber inlay in the top? Could’ve been so much better really.
I believe that camera screw is a quarter inch, 20 TPI Whitworth thread, at least by specification. I have noticed recent inexpensive tripods tend to use a 60 degree thread, but I think that is because it works, not because it is correct.
I'm genuinely unsure. I think the spec (as far as it goes) it 1/4" 20 TPI, slack as hell. The latter part of the spec means that Whitworth versus Sellers thread form is (in practice) a non-issue.
Keith, I know you wanted to use your new angle fixture, but would it not have been quicker to tilt the head of your mill?
either tilting the head or tilting the angle fixture would both have likely taken about the same amount of time... but using the angle fixture comes with the added bonus of not having to get the head dialed back in perfectly vertical when he is done. Typically it's best to maneuver the part into position rather than moving the machine into position, mostly because when the part is done, you can take it off and the job is done... if you move the machine, then when the part is done, you still have more work to do to get the machine trammed back in because you moved it around.
nodding and rotating the head and such is great and can get you out of some sticky situations, but it also creates more work afterwards... if you have the ability to maneuver the part and stay within tolerance, that's usually preferable
Good point,@@cryptk. I'm not a machinist, nor do I play one on TV...and it shows LOL. Several years ago a machinist in our small shop at work made several similar camera adaptors for me and, not having an angle fixture, he tilted the head on the Bridgeport. Thanks for setting me straight on something that's probably obvious to 90% of Keith's viewers.
whew look at all those grind marks
I tuned in figuring that I'd see a setup using either the nod or the tilt features of the mill's head... or a tilting milling vise... stuff lots of us have in our shops.
Using an angle fixture is a bit easier for the machinist... if you have one! ;^) (No need to mess with the tramming of the mill head)
Or like Mr. Pete says, he would rather take a beating then move the mill head.
First I'll say that I like your channel and really appreciate the amount of work you and others are doing to make all these videos. I learned a lot from it and use that all the time for my work (I repair musical instruments).
That said... also being a photographer, sorry to say but the whole point of those plates is that you don't need a tool to clamp it to the camera. With the slot being so close to the screw head it's not possible to wrap your fingers around it to at least have it finger tight (for situation where it's enough, which with this massive plate... maybe rare). It also won't fit most regular tripod plate screws with the opening handle or slot, which have a larger head than a screw.
They could get one of those regular screws and it's pretty simple to have it captured. It's just a a 1/4-20 threaded hole that continues as a slot with a smaller width, not enough to allow the threads to pass. The screws have a relief between the head and threads that passes there. You can get these from ebay or many photography stores.
The top padding isn't a big deal, they can glue rubco or anything to it. I guess it's also pretty heavy without any milled parts at the bottom.
👍
Watching in Alabama
If the T-slots in the angle plate were cut after the surface was ground that could explain why it was so messy. Lots of movement when you cut that much material out.
Another grate video. Thanks for giving us the opportunity to see how it done.
How to make this pcs in vice
I have one of those tables on back order. But someday.............
Soba brand?
Stoning the new surfaces on an import is good practice as would be checking the accuracy of the angle marks which we did not "see" being done. When off shore companies want accuracy in their manufacturing, do they import fixtures and measuring devices from us? :-)
No, they buy quality metric tools from Japan or Europe.
Neat tool, I was lucky my camera mount uses 45 degree mount
For john Switzer?
Nice, funny thing is though in the time it took you to take the vise off and stone that angle plate, you coulda been done with the whole project if you used your vise and a 20 degree angle block, and a vise stop.....or tilt your head 20 degrees, do a little trig math to indicate it in, and use a standard parallel and a vise stop....
next scraping project?
I want tilt table
I have no machining experience but, I truly enjoy watching you and the Abomb
I have seen many comments about import tooling . China, India and others. Make quality tools to. The resealing company's import the cheapest tools .
This table is 250 dolars . A brand name is at least 15 times more expensive.
I have seen several high quality stuff from Asia.
Do you think that China Industries is built on scrap tools?
it's the tool resellers and importers who order the crap tools from any company, in whichever country, that makes low quality products and the reason is demand driven. it's unfortunate and also irks the crap out of me to hear generalisations about entire countries' output of precision tools regarded as cheap crap when every country is capable and willing to sell complete shit to anyone with money.
nobody is special in this regard.
Agreed. Further, 1/2 the quality for 1/10 the dough is a good deal. Engineers know about appropriate tolerances, right? Not everything is toolroom work.
@Keith, if your friend is interested in adding some cork on the top of the adapter (as I've done with a couple of camera adapters): th-cam.com/video/zMZ2_hkCxrA/w-d-xo.html
Great to see I'm not the only one who uses WD40. 😁
Hmm, It seems a job for a surface grinder. Or would junk from grinding cause more harm than good? BTW chipping and shipping often mean the same thing in the long run. Some shippers are careful, but this cannot be assumed to work over a very long haul. My brother is a trucker. He doesn't handle high precision stuff, but stuff gets roughed up on his hauls anyway.. I love your videos, though you might need LA. Lathes Anonymous. God bless you.
I don't think that angle plate is big enough for you mill. You need one much bigger! (Big Grin) Sorry couldn't help myself. I have a much smaller one for my mill. They are handy to have. Thanks for sharing. KenS.
May could have been made wide enough for hex head bolt so it wouldn't turn around.
Would not tighten in correct position as needed all the time, just one.This way it is adjustable in any degree needed.
thank god, i can tilt my spindlehead
The funny thing is that he can too
I can agree with using a tilt table over tiling the head. I’d often rather hit my thumb with a hammer than retram my mill....
@steve gale - for the frequency I'm sure it gets used, I'm sure it's not that bad. I'm still a young buck (just ignore the gray hair). But yes, I really should retram my mill... Haven't checked in a while.
@steve gale - good point. But, maybe something to do with as the mill wears, the tram would change. I know my tables worn. Re-scraping has long been on the to do list... I rescraped my compound on my lathe, but then never put it back on. Lol. The very seldom occasion I turn a taper is not worth the added benefit to a solid tool post.
When I rescrape the rest of my lathe I'll be watching Keiths the turcite videos as my carriage is very worn down.
I want
I ordered and paid for one of those tilt tables from ENCO years ago before they were swallowed by MSC. They sent me 2 by mistake and I still dont think I got a deal. They are no good for anything remotely precise.
That, er, angle tool sounds like it's a candidate for a scraping class.
That would be a lot of scraping as it is now - I would machine it first.
The Chinese blew their first hydrogen bomb in 1967. They have put men into space. They know how to do precision stuff. The problem is that that high quality stuff is not that much cheaper then similar quality stuff from Western Europe, Canada or wherever. An cheap Indian made accessory is not intrinsically better then something in the same price range from China.
enjoed,
India and quality don't belong in same sentence. !!! Nice project.
Vernon Hastings Yeah. For hardware I’d have more inherent trust in stuff from China than India. Not slagging them off, China has just focused and invested a lot more on getting the industry side of thing going.
Yeah I have lathe made in India - copy of Harrison. Its crap.
In India we have both types of manufacturing done one which is cheaper and other which has quality you cant get both here. So it doesnt mean if one of you had got bad stuff from India all others make bad too. You mentioned Harison lathe but did you ever try the HMT NH series or the Psg lathes ??
Actually this statement is pure prejudice. If your importers go to India and buy only the cheapest tools you will get cheap tools. Its a bit like the prejudice against Chinese tools. The Chinese also produce tool of the highest quality, but if you only import the cheapest you will get average or low quality. Are you saying that there are no cheap low quality tools made in the US? I don't really worry what you think, but this China and India knocking gets a bit boring.
For clarity I agree with moto wizard, but my comment above was meant to be a reply to Vernon Hastings.
he Keith, there is an upside to your sound failure in that it allows you to give a scripted and more detailed description of what we are seeing. It might be a method to use when you have something complex to show us as it would free you from the burden of commentary and allow you to concentrate on the job in hand!
Making a camera mount ... nothing like the original ... great ..
Heya
Strange angle? Looks like a job for a shaper! If its made in India ==> its like made in China 20/30 years ago.
Just an FYI - they're called tripod shoes
Hi Keith,
When I saw the title it reminded me of a clip from John Switzer from Black Bear Forge having a tounge in cheek rant on QD camera mounts. I think you might like it. th-cam.com/video/oa_3cOucA4g/w-d-xo.html
I bet that angle plate goes onto the surface girder for truing up before too long.
I am surprised, normally you finish things off so well. I am sorry to say that this was half ass and probably not usable in it's current form.
Those things are made for quick change, hence the hand operated fastener .... now if he can use it he will need to carry an allen wrench around with him.
Exactly what I was thinking. I work in TV for living and in it's current form it would end up being unused. Unless it's for a one-time setup.
you put one of these permanently on each camera. then you can quickly swap cameras out.
Well thats the complicated way to do it, why didnt you just tilt the head of your mill?
You are kidding, right?
@@paulcopeland9035 No I am not. If you have a versatile machine available why would you buy an angular table?
You use that and save yourself re-tramming in the head.
@@rennkafer13 but he had to tram the angular table too.
@@Copozeras fair amount of time and effort difference between tramming a vise/angle plate and tramming the head in.
That would be better than the original.
More mass would dampen vibration.
its got a big knob in its bottom??? Oh Keith that is priceless)))
A lot of Starret precision tools arent that precision either. I have Chinese tools that are way better. So what is your point? You can buy a lot of crap in the USA too.
nobody enjoys using the knod of the mill these days.
I find the Chinese stuff much better in quality than the indian tools. I have been stung buying tools from india too many times, they seem to make everything out of whatever rubbishy metals they have lying around.
WD-40 sponsored? I didn't think WD-40 was meant to be used as cutting oil... Interesting.
Works great on aluminum.
Perfect for aluminium. Switched to container and refill pump spray recently. A lot cheaper.
What a dumb comment. Why are people like you always trying to "catch" someone?
Put possum pee on it if it will do the job that is required lol
I have tried many cutting fluids on aluminum, WD40 is by far the best. It is epically good on really gummy aluminum. Learned this years ago cutting threads in the lathe on large OD aluminum conduit.
Not as good as a angle plate made in the good old US of A .... But about a tenth of the price .. so buy american and leave the the rest of the world out of it .... :)
Every time you buy such a crap from China or India, you're basically subsidizing outsourcing of American jobs.
If you can spend the money, please buy American.
Are you aware how much a similar american/european made table would cost?
@@erik.... new or used one?
But ultimately - I don't care, I was stating a fact, regardless of how much it costs (likely costs proportionally to the difference in quality).
How much does a loss of factory cost that community?
Buying a used one is even better, you create a restoration video and you have a better product and, as a bonus, you can feel that you saved a few opioid epidemic victims due to loss of employment opportunity.
BTW when I was a bit younger I was one of those free-market libertarians, but having seen what inability to provide for his family does to millions of men - and ultimately the whole country, I became the biggest nationalist.
@@thunderstruck1078 Sure I know what you mean. Both my milling machine and lathe are made in Sweden in the 50's and way better quality and same price used as new chinese machines for the same price.. But it won't help jobs to buy used machines will it. If I import tools I will pay 25% import tax and the importer will have a job.
I was always pretty certain that all camera threads were 1/4 Whitworth; quite a coarse thread for the diameter.