Good job, good video this is where creativity combined with experience is priceless. Once a while a mistake comes up and one learn from it. I would love to have a slightly smaller version of that article which i would prefer to make myself🙂
Stress relieve after welding, before machining would be the cherry on the sundae. For a small shop, you should look into vibration stress relieving. Awesome fixture!
As a welder, you should not weld downhill if you want a nice penetration. Gravity pulls your puddle in front of the arc and inhibits a good penetration. Horizontal welding or flat is the best for a nice looking weld. Nice video!
Thanks yeah I get that. I’m sure I could’ve welded this about a third as much as I did and been completely fine in terms of strength. I am most comfortable in the downhill position, but I still have a lot to learn when it comes to Welding.
@@bobweiram6321 When penetration is not crucial downhill welds are the nicest looking indeed. And don't get me wrong, downhill welds are still very strong welds. You would just never use this technique for something that needs to be absolutely strong. An active part on a piece of machinery for instance.
Thank you for another interesting project. Your customers are fortunate to have a source like you. Your competence and considerate attitude are not a common thing. I agree that angle plate is impressive and will be a real asset for future jobs.
You know what that angle plate needs is a brass or copper plate with the maker, and when it was made.. That's cool that you were able to make that tool.
Yeah you are right. One day when I become a little more wealthy I’ll pay Von industrial to create a bunch of tags for me so each thing that I make, I can put on it, but we’re not there yet.
I've also made tooling for a job, yet didn't end up making money on the job. But the tooling makes me money going forward. I consider that a win. Example: my 50" wide 40 ton press brake, which I never would have made otherwise, but now use regularly. Sometimes the road is straight, sometimes curvy--take it as it comes🙂✌
You were definitely set up on this one. Always someone out there trying to get something for free. The shops that previously turning the work down probably had met the same fate with that company
Your only mistake was taking the job. Warpage was built into the part and I don't think anyone could repair that. You angle plate turned out excellent. You'll use it alot. Thanks.
Kyle, You learned a valuable lesson. When you remove material from one side of a plate it will pull. The only way to keep it flat is to machine both sides evenly and sometimes repeatedly. With what you had, good luck on doing that.
When you weld something like this and you can flip it with the crane. Always flip it over and weld it in the flat position it will make your life a lot easier.
@@VanoverMachineAndRepair Yes I know. I was pointing out the perpendicularity of the spindle to the feed of the x axis. maybe I expressed it incorrectly.
...want to reiterate again how i love to hear the speeds and feeds...would love a post on how u got your radial arm drill...now u have me wanting one.....lol
That is one big boss of angle plate’s, I’m jealous even though I have no use for it whatsoever, I guess I could use it as a paper weight lol. Well done.
Kyle - Nice Angle Plate . I have a suggestion - after welding the Angle Plate it needed to be stress relieved or it will not be stable. The aluminum you attempted to machine flat could have also be stress relieved - they call it Solution Heat Treating . How do I know ? I've screwed up enough parts to learn . -- Jim
Kyle: I think you may have been set up. I don't know what the aluminum was but it is often extruded. This builds stress in the skin of the aluminum which when machined goes wonky. It would be different if the aluminum came ground flat. Probably checking into the condition of the aluminum before machining will save you a lot of grief. Please don't be afraid to charge for your time on an iffy job. The laborer is worthy of his hire. You are a great guy!
One begs the question of why downhand. To pump less heat into it and aid in warping ? Why not lay it flat and push / pull. In the end, it works. But food for thought on Struggle vs. Working smarter. Great video and project.
I remember when Curtis tried to machine a huge shaft from a piece of round stock, supplied by his customer, and the more he took off of it the more it warped. I think you did a great job.
Kyle, nice work! I understand your love for the horizontal mill. It's a beast and with big angle plates is becomes quite universal. Thank you for sharing all your hard and satisfying work! Best from the Netherlands! Job Unfortunately the intended job didn't work out as expected. I had several of these too. As long you can keep the middle line between earning and loosing money your good. The upside is that you learn a lot in the meantime and are preparing for the next job to accept or to wisely reject (and own a nice angle plate for the next job on the K&T). Sandwiched constructions are balanced with the two outer layers which provide the desired stiffness for the overall part. As you change one a new equilibrium will set as you experienced in warping. The only way to get it more or less right (depending on the desired tolerances) is to machine both sides a little at a time or just skim the surface and reverse. The magnets seem to do their job though. Bur that's probably not the final mounting of the part I guess....
Need to hand scrape that thing so it's REALLY flat! 😉 Nice work, Kyle. Too bad about the job, but lessons learned on all fronts. But you have one kickass angle plate out of the deal!
A bit of an observation: If you are always doing projects that are out of the norm, then they are the norm, don't you think? Nice content and explanations.
I’m ever down there I’ll have to stop by so I can learn some techniques from you. I’ve spent a lot of time welding over the past 20 years but most of it has been pretty homogeneous. Most of the time it’s been less than 200 amp with the 7525 gas mixture on short circuit MiG. I’ve done some stick with very little success and more success with TIG, but still a load more to learn on TIG.
Well done Kyle You have every right to be proud of it. Maybe some aligned through-holes in gussets for weight saving and stress relief and fixturing… ?
Kyle, I noticed on the 2 center gussets, you mitered the corners at the 90 degree ..... but not the outside gussets..... You create a stress riser by welding those outside gussets all the way...... much better to miter/notch the 90 degree corner and not weld completely..... Just saying....Paul
That’s good to know. I actually didn’t notch the center ones. I just ran out of material so those were made of a less wide plate so they don’t reach all the way to the center.
Kyle, with a fillet weld, you do not need to bevel for a 100% penetration, beveling allows the use of less weld material on a fillet,[faster weld] but no bevel fillet is allowable with AWS D1:1 specs..... normally a fillet of 3/4 the thickness of the material is what is required.... I hope this may help, Paul
OK, great thanks for the info Paul. I guess it just depends on what you’re using it for 99% of whatever I do it probably doesn’t matter but it’s always good to know Technical stuff because sometimes it does make a difference.
I used to operate a CP 302 Miller welder and there was several at this particular company I found that the ones that had the 22 a wire feeder had that problem going horizontal but the ones with the 24a wire feeder excellent because it's a four-drive roll system and it has a better feed ability to it my personal opinion is the 22A Miller wire feeder is junk
So when you have something very thin and big and you grind/mill it on a magnet chuck (which this basically was..) you release the part and it springs back to the original warp again, you have to shim the plate, idk if its cupped or dished but self explanatory which way to shim. The biggest problem here is that you cannot machine the backside (i assume), the shimming takes the warp out but only on 1 side, which therefor is then flat and warp free but the other side still has the warp in it which you have to machine aswell after.
Hey Kyle, just found your channel, enjoyed the video & subscribed. Wonder if those parts could be run thru a time saver a few times. Basically taking a very small grind off of them each pass. Maybe a local cabinet shop would have one to test it out.
Welcome aboard. Those a great machines but my woodworking friends who have them would probably be against sending metal through their wood sander, but I like where your heads at. Seems like it could work
Olá amigo que maravilha este projeto!!!Estou pensando em fazer um com uma cantoneira,já que não tenho muitos recursos no momento!!! Lhe desejo saúde e cada vez mais sucesso!!!
It seems to me that just trying to get the workpiece off of the angle plate would warp it, the magnets must have an immense strength to them. For a job like that an entirely different type of angle plate would be necessary, I'm thinking of something made from aluminium with grooves for a vacuum clamping system. Or have an aluminium plate with pockets where you can drop chunks of steel in that the magnets can hold on to, but when trying to get it off you can just remove those chunks (maybe even with threads) and the plate would come loose. Anyway, those specialized angle plates would have a more limited usage afterwards, so you'll propably be glad to have this nice piece of work you made in this video now.
27:16 ... I guess it's pretty obvious, but the design is the problem not the machining, this is typical of engineers on paper it looks good, but IRL it'll never come out flat. They need to be at least 1/4" with the aluminum AND steel, and have that phenolic resin layer (or whatever it is), where the magnets are magnets embedded, to be an inch thick, with rows of 1/8" or 1/4" think aluminum flat bar ribbing in between the magnet rows, the resin could hold it all together lie it is now. BUT??? Who knows what the heck it's for!! .. Maybe the current thickness is the maximum it can be to work?? Props for trying Kyle!!, at least they know now it needs to be redesigned, and it's not a manufacturing problem :) On the bright side? That angle plate is SUPER!! .. Well worth it just to prompt you to make that up!! ... It will be profitable on the next job!! :)
Kyle, at about 13:00 you mention Spray Transfer, normally you need at least an 80% argon mix to go to spray transfer.... you should hear a wooshing sound and no crackling [bacon frying] the arc will look like a hose shooting molten metal as it is not short circuiting... a 95-5 % ar-co2 or even a 95-5 % ar-o2 [which gives a hotter weld] is recommended..... but a 92-8 % ar-co2 will work and also allow you to short circuit with the same gas mix. you do not want to use a drag method with Axial Spray Transfer, as the puddle is way too fluid to control.....welding in the flat or horizontal position is a better way to control the puddle with a push method.....at least in my experience ..... you bead will look like it was laid down with a tube of toothpaste......... and you will be really moving fast, like 3 to 4 times a normal short circuit weld.... you were most likely in a globular transfer mode..... you should have no spatter at all with Axial Spray Transfer, and be running 28 to 30 volts, and about 200 to 300 ipm wire speed with .045 solid wire..... I hope this may help, best regards, Paul 'Paulie' Brown from weld . com
Thanks I appreciate the help. I do have a lot to learn on spray transfer and that welder. I did a bunch of research on spray transfer for gases. Some people were saying what you mentioned (98/2) then other people were saying that you could run 100% CO2 and others were saying that 7525 works as well. I wanted to get the 98 two but I couldn’t source it at my gas supplier. I did purchase 100% CO2 and was working with that initially but was definitely getting a couple more worm tracks than I would like. If I remember correctly, it flowed a little better but was a little bit more likely to have porosity. I think I experimented with 100% CO2 and got better results the 7525 but I’m sure you’re right. I probably needed to run a lot hotter.
Kyle nice work on the angle plate! That is awesome and will be useful till long after we are all gone. I can't believe there are some negative comments and wonder what reality these people live in, but I have to deal with that too. Great job!
@@VanoverMachineAndRepair I have had to include an indicator pass in most of my videos to show the "experts" what you get. And the welding comments you got I am like really? I am not a welder but that looks like an angle plate I would not mind having, and a better weld job than I could dream of doing. Regarding normalizing we do a ton of work for GM and their version of normalizing is to drop the weldments on the floor before cutting and I am serious, we never have tolerance issues.
Thanks, yeah I seen that and Pauls comments. I was using the C10 initially but I was actually getting some better results with the 7525 but I think I wasn’t running fast or hot enough to be in the actual spray transfer.
@@VanoverMachineAndRepair Thanks for the welcoming man!! My father is heavy duty machinist and welder (working on trucks, dozers, excavators etc.) I am in to coach building (sheet metal forming/building cars and 3D modeling for body kits) I know how hard is that work you do, I have very huge respect for you! God bless!
You related to a gregory vanover? Older fella, served overseas..worked with him. Hell of a dude.. somebody youd be proud to be related to.. when hes got his head on straight…. Loud noises didnt play too nice with him after his third term..
I'm sure you know this already but downhill mig is not optimal at all for penetration. Also you mentioned using 75/25 for spray transfer, which is all I've ever used as well, and to the best of my knowledge you cant really get an actual spray transfer going with it, you're basically stuck in globular. From all I've read you need a gas with higher argon percentage for true spray transfer
sad to hear of the warping issue......but useful information....... how hard was it to remove the sandwiched plate from the angle plate with all those magnets ? cheers, Paul
Hard lol. I knew if I stuck it on there raw I may never get it off so I experimented by putting sheets of paper under it and got it to a place where I was hard to remove, but I knew it would stay.
Because it was already warped what would of happened if you packed the warp onto the plate then faced the outside then flipped it over and faced the other side( besides losing more material of course )
You should of welded in the horizontal position. If you weld in the vertical you should weld up from bottom to top. Downward runs look great but have poor penetration.
Shame that didn't work. I too would of thought that the magnets in that job would of held it flat and parallel enough for what it was intended. Did it call out for flatness while not installed?
Nice job on the angle plate. Shame the job you made it for went sh!t shaped, but having tried to surface grind some gibs really flat, I'm not surprised. In my case, the mag chuck sucked it down, and just like your job, it sprang back when the chuck was released. I guess the job could be done, but it sounds expensive!
🎉What about the deformation and stress due to welding, which will inevitably appear after the cutting operations are completed, after six months or more of aging?🎉
Honestly, nothing special it was some cheap triangular Insert they sent with the suburban to Fly Cutter. I think I honned it up a little bit on a stone, but I’m not sure that made too much of a difference to be honest. Really the rigidity and the lack of movement in the set up is what makes that big of a difference. I use the same set up in the Bridgeport with a much smaller bar and I still get good results but the best results come from the KT with pretty much no other changes in tooling.
Using the magnets to hold down the part might of been the problem, if you want to achieve a flatness on warped part you may want to start at a free stage as possible, keeping heat away from the surface should be considered.
What's with the liquid all over the material? That weld will be like cinder toffee inside. Unless you do stress relief heat treatment before machining it won't stay square.
Hopefully the customer learned something from the experience, too. It sounds like their designer created something that looked good on paper, but but was next to impossible to successfully manufacture.
Nah. while you ruined one of their plates, if many turned down the job before you, as a customer i'd at least appreciate you giving it a shot. I wonder if a surface grinder might have been able to get the job done? p.s. Nice job on the fixture.
At least I’m not the only one who learns by failure. Beautiful angle plate! I have never regretted buying or making a tool.
Agreed!
Absolutely 👍
Good job, good video this is where creativity combined with experience is priceless. Once a while a mistake comes up and one learn from it. I would love to have a slightly smaller version of that article which i would prefer to make myself🙂
I work for two, different places that had that band saw. Very good machine.
They are great machines
Stress relieve after welding, before machining would be the cherry on the sundae. For a small shop, you should look into vibration stress relieving. Awesome fixture!
Yeah, that’s a great point. I have an oven now that I didn’t at the time. I think it would fit in the oven but yeah, that is the best way to do it.
My first thoughts too. I've seen the results of welded structures going straight to machining and it is not pretty. Glad he recognised this issue.
As a welder, you should not weld downhill if you want a nice penetration. Gravity pulls your puddle in front of the arc and inhibits a good penetration. Horizontal welding or flat is the best for a nice looking weld.
Nice video!
But those welds are super smooth as the puddle flows downward.
@@bobweiram6321 And less penetrating welds, means less warping too! :)
Thanks yeah I get that. I’m sure I could’ve welded this about a third as much as I did and been completely fine in terms of strength. I am most comfortable in the downhill position, but I still have a lot to learn when it comes to Welding.
@@bobweiram6321 When penetration is not crucial downhill welds are the nicest looking indeed.
And don't get me wrong, downhill welds are still very strong welds. You would just never use this technique for something that needs to be absolutely strong. An active part on a piece of machinery for instance.
@@VanoverMachineAndRepair Your angle plate is absolutely gorgeous man.
Thank you for another interesting project. Your customers are fortunate to have a source like you. Your competence and considerate attitude are not a common thing. I agree that angle plate is impressive and will be a real asset for future jobs.
Thank you very much!
It may be a failure, but you get A+ for a robust approach and excellent execution. Nice work!
Thank you very much!
You know what that angle plate needs is a brass or copper plate with the maker, and when it was made.. That's cool that you were able to make that tool.
Yeah you are right. One day when I become a little more wealthy I’ll pay Von industrial to create a bunch of tags for me so each thing that I make, I can put on it, but we’re not there yet.
@@VanoverMachineAndRepair What about machining yourself a stamp and using that in a press to make your tags?
@@stewkingjr yeah good idea
Kinda like a blacksmiths touch mark.
I've also made tooling for a job, yet didn't end up making money on the job. But the tooling makes me money going forward. I consider that a win. Example: my 50" wide 40 ton press brake, which I never would have made otherwise, but now use regularly. Sometimes the road is straight, sometimes curvy--take it as it comes🙂✌
Great advice
You were definitely set up on this one. Always someone out there trying to get something for free.
The shops that previously turning the work down probably had met the same fate with that company
Yes indeed
Your only mistake was taking the job. Warpage was built into the part and I don't think anyone could repair that. You angle plate turned out excellent. You'll use it alot. Thanks.
You're right
Kyle, You learned a valuable lesson.
When you remove material from one side of a plate it will pull.
The only way to keep it flat is to machine both sides evenly and sometimes repeatedly.
With what you had, good luck on doing that.
Thanks for the info!
Not all loss. Got me to subscribe! Great machining with those old irreplaceable American machines. No will start watching your older posts!
Thanks for the sub!
I ran a K&T like that when I started out.
I really appreciate the finish you got with your fly cutter. 😅
You and me both!
When you weld something like this and you can flip it with the crane. Always flip it over and weld it in the flat position it will make your life a lot easier.
Thank you
25:32 .. The finish almost looks Blanchard ground!! .. very nice!!
Indeed thanks turned out goid
That mill is trimmed perfectly. look at those tool marks!!
There is no tram on it it’s fixed
@@VanoverMachineAndRepair Yes I know. I was pointing out the perpendicularity of the spindle to the feed of the x axis. maybe I expressed it incorrectly.
@@ramtinnazeryan no worries
Failures are lessons learned. Absolutely a great angle plate.
Very true!
...want to reiterate again how i love to hear the speeds and feeds...would love a post on how u got your radial arm drill...now u have me wanting one.....lol
Yeah I love the radial drill they are great. I am trying to balance talking with machining I am getting where I want to be but still figuring it out.
@@VanoverMachineAndRepair watched the rest of the video and lovived all the horizontal boring and drilling...k and t's rule
Well done Kyle. Looks great.
Thanks Randy
Nice work. Enjoyable to watch.
Thank you very much!
That is one big boss of angle plate’s, I’m jealous even though I have no use for it whatsoever, I guess I could use it as a paper weight lol. Well done.
lol true. Thanks
Kyle - Nice Angle Plate . I have a suggestion - after welding the Angle Plate it needed to be stress relieved or it will not be stable. The aluminum you attempted to machine flat could have also be stress relieved - they call it Solution Heat Treating . How do I know ? I've screwed up enough parts to learn . -- Jim
Thanks
just a heads up. fast forward your grinding and compress the noise by 50% you will get beter retention.
👍
Beautiful.
Thank you! Cheers!
Awesome angle plate. Well done
Thanks 👍
Nice work! 👍
Thanks! 👍
Kyle: I think you may have been set up. I don't know what the aluminum was but it is often extruded. This builds stress in the skin of the aluminum which when machined goes wonky. It would be different if the aluminum came ground flat. Probably checking into the condition of the aluminum before machining will save you a lot of grief. Please don't be afraid to charge for your time on an iffy job. The laborer is worthy of his hire. You are a great guy!
Thanks I appreciate it
Cheers buddy, thoroughly enjoyed this one, thank you for sharing
Glad you enjoyed it
One begs the question of why downhand. To pump less heat into it and aid in warping ? Why not lay it flat and push / pull.
In the end, it works. But food for thought on Struggle vs. Working smarter.
Great video and project.
Thanks
Hell yeah Kyle! You’re kicking ass!
Really appreciate it man
I remember when Curtis tried to machine a huge shaft from a piece of round stock, supplied by his customer, and the more he took off of it the more it warped. I think you did a great job.
Thanks I appreciate it
Kyle, nice work! I understand your love for the horizontal mill. It's a beast and with big angle plates is becomes quite universal. Thank you for sharing all your hard and satisfying work! Best from the Netherlands! Job
Unfortunately the intended job didn't work out as expected. I had several of these too. As long you can keep the middle line between earning and loosing money your good. The upside is that you learn a lot in the meantime and are preparing for the next job to accept or to wisely reject (and own a nice angle plate for the next job on the K&T). Sandwiched constructions are balanced with the two outer layers which provide the desired stiffness for the overall part. As you change one a new equilibrium will set as you experienced in warping. The only way to get it more or less right (depending on the desired tolerances) is to machine both sides a little at a time or just skim the surface and reverse. The magnets seem to do their job though. Bur that's probably not the final mounting of the part I guess....
Thanks for the tips!
A good vid and lesson as usual. We shared this video on our homemade tool forum last week 😎
Awesome! Thank you!
Need to hand scrape that thing so it's REALLY flat! 😉 Nice work, Kyle. Too bad about the job, but lessons learned on all fronts. But you have one kickass angle plate out of the deal!
That would LOOK awesome too!! :)
Yes indeed thanks Greg
A bit of an observation: If you are always doing projects that are out of the norm, then they are the norm, don't you think? Nice content and explanations.
Yeah true
always wonderful Kyle.......best wishes from Orlando , Paul
I’m ever down there I’ll have to stop by so I can learn some techniques from you. I’ve spent a lot of time welding over the past 20 years but most of it has been pretty homogeneous. Most of the time it’s been less than 200 amp with the 7525 gas mixture on short circuit MiG. I’ve done some stick with very little success and more success with TIG, but still a load more to learn on TIG.
Well done Kyle
You have every right to be proud of it.
Maybe some aligned through-holes in gussets for weight saving and stress relief and fixturing… ?
Yeah maybe
Kyle, I noticed on the 2 center gussets, you mitered the corners at the 90 degree .....
but not the outside gussets.....
You create a stress riser by welding those outside gussets all the way......
much better to miter/notch the 90 degree corner and not weld completely.....
Just saying....Paul
That’s good to know. I actually didn’t notch the center ones. I just ran out of material so those were made of a less wide plate so they don’t reach all the way to the center.
@@VanoverMachineAndRepair #HappyAccident 👍
good old Sunrise Red, Rust-Oleum, I painted my Ellis 1800 saw that color.......good choice
Such a nice red
Kyle, with a fillet weld, you do not need to bevel for a 100% penetration,
beveling allows the use of less weld material on a fillet,[faster weld]
but no bevel fillet is allowable with AWS D1:1 specs.....
normally a fillet of 3/4 the thickness of the material is what is required....
I hope this may help, Paul
OK, great thanks for the info Paul. I guess it just depends on what you’re using it for 99% of whatever I do it probably doesn’t matter but it’s always good to know Technical stuff because sometimes it does make a difference.
I used to operate a CP 302 Miller welder and there was several at this particular company I found that the ones that had the 22 a wire feeder had that problem going horizontal but the ones with the 24a wire feeder excellent because it's a four-drive roll system and it has a better feed ability to it my personal opinion is the 22A Miller wire feeder is junk
I believe it 4 roller is def better no doubt
Great looking angle plate, thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching!
So when you have something very thin and big and you grind/mill it on a magnet chuck (which this basically was..) you release the part and it springs back to the original warp again, you have to shim the plate, idk if its cupped or dished but self explanatory which way to shim.
The biggest problem here is that you cannot machine the backside (i assume), the shimming takes the warp out but only on 1 side, which therefor is then flat and warp free but the other side still has the warp in it which you have to machine aswell after.
I wish we knew exactly what it was for? .. My first thought was make it an inch thick. But maybe it won't work that big?? Whatever it's for :)
Yeah agreed. Since the part was magnetic it was like the chuck 🤣
Real men of genius. I never thought of using the bandsaw like that.
lol yeah
Beautiful angle plate. It’s definitely a monster.
It really is!
Hey Kyle, just found your channel, enjoyed the video & subscribed. Wonder if those parts could be run thru a time saver a few times. Basically taking a very small grind off of them each pass. Maybe a local cabinet shop would have one to test it out.
Welcome aboard. Those a great machines but my woodworking friends who have them would probably be against sending metal through their wood sander, but I like where your heads at. Seems like it could work
It’s not a failure if you learned from it. It’s a failure if you didn’t learn anything.
Exactly
that is not an Angle Plate, it is a Piece of Art which belongs in an Art Gallery.....
Thanks Paul
Olá amigo que maravilha este projeto!!!Estou pensando em fazer um com uma cantoneira,já que não tenho muitos recursos no momento!!!
Lhe desejo saúde e cada vez mais sucesso!!!
Thank you
Anytime I've ever delt with magnets and plates it's a headache, they worp regardless of setup, great video, keep'um coming.
Yeah I know that now moving forward
It seems to me that just trying to get the workpiece off of the angle plate would warp it, the magnets must have an immense strength to them. For a job like that an entirely different type of angle plate would be necessary, I'm thinking of something made from aluminium with grooves for a vacuum clamping system. Or have an aluminium plate with pockets where you can drop chunks of steel in that the magnets can hold on to, but when trying to get it off you can just remove those chunks (maybe even with threads) and the plate would come loose. Anyway, those specialized angle plates would have a more limited usage afterwards, so you'll propably be glad to have this nice piece of work you made in this video now.
Indeed
Beautifull mate !
Thanks a lot!
27:16 ... I guess it's pretty obvious, but the design is the problem not the machining, this is typical of engineers on paper it looks good, but IRL it'll never come out flat.
They need to be at least 1/4" with the aluminum AND steel, and have that phenolic resin layer (or whatever it is), where the magnets are magnets embedded, to be an inch thick, with rows of 1/8" or 1/4" think aluminum flat bar ribbing in between the magnet rows, the resin could hold it all together lie it is now.
BUT??? Who knows what the heck it's for!! .. Maybe the current thickness is the maximum it can be to work??
Props for trying Kyle!!, at least they know now it needs to be redesigned, and it's not a manufacturing problem :)
On the bright side? That angle plate is SUPER!! .. Well worth it just to prompt you to make that up!! ... It will be profitable on the next job!! :)
Yes thanks Mike
Nice plate. But for spray transfer you will need a a gas with less co2 percentage and keep it flat .
👍
Kyle, at about 13:00 you mention Spray Transfer,
normally you need at least an 80% argon mix to go to spray transfer....
you should hear a wooshing sound and no crackling [bacon frying]
the arc will look like a hose shooting molten metal as it is not short circuiting...
a 95-5 % ar-co2 or even a 95-5 % ar-o2 [which gives a hotter weld] is recommended.....
but a 92-8 % ar-co2 will work and also allow you to short circuit with the same gas mix.
you do not want to use a drag method with Axial Spray Transfer, as the puddle is
way too fluid to control.....welding in the flat or horizontal position is a better way to
control the puddle with a push method.....at least in my experience .....
you bead will look like it was laid down with a tube of toothpaste.........
and you will be really moving fast, like 3 to 4 times a normal short circuit weld....
you were most likely in a globular transfer mode.....
you should have no spatter at all with Axial Spray Transfer, and be running 28 to 30 volts,
and about 200 to 300 ipm wire speed with .045 solid wire.....
I hope this may help, best regards, Paul 'Paulie' Brown from weld . com
Thanks I appreciate the help. I do have a lot to learn on spray transfer and that welder. I did a bunch of research on spray transfer for gases. Some people were saying what you mentioned (98/2) then other people were saying that you could run 100% CO2 and others were saying that 7525 works as well. I wanted to get the 98 two but I couldn’t source it at my gas supplier. I did purchase 100% CO2 and was working with that initially but was definitely getting a couple more worm tracks than I would like. If I remember correctly, it flowed a little better but was a little bit more likely to have porosity. I think I experimented with 100% CO2 and got better results the 7525 but I’m sure you’re right. I probably needed to run a lot hotter.
I can't believe that face mill spits the chips toward the operator.
Yeah
Kyle nice work on the angle plate! That is awesome and will be useful till long after we are all gone. I can't believe there are some negative comments and wonder what reality these people live in, but I have to deal with that too. Great job!
Yeah people are crazy. I am using your cutter. If this isn’t good results i don’t know what is. At least on old machinery!
@@VanoverMachineAndRepair I have had to include an indicator pass in most of my videos to show the "experts" what you get. And the welding comments you got I am like really? I am not a welder but that looks like an angle plate I would not mind having, and a better weld job than I could dream of doing. Regarding normalizing we do a ton of work for GM and their version of normalizing is to drop the weldments on the floor before cutting and I am serious, we never have tolerance issues.
@@mvpmachine yeah crazy. I have not had issues with stuff moving myself. and even still I can reaching the face if its that critical
Spiral taps are awesome💪💪💪💪
Yes they are!
Excellent!
Many thanks!
You are making me want a radial arm drill now. 😀
It’s a need. You need one. They are cheap too
@@VanoverMachineAndRepair They never pop up for sale around here. You can get me one for Christmas if you like. 😄
@@hilltopmachineworks2131 lol if I buy it you have to go get it lol
@@VanoverMachineAndRepair Maybe Santa would deliver it. 🎅
@@hilltopmachineworks2131 lol
Great machining. I subscribed!
Thank you
You were in globular transfer mode. You need c10 or 98% argon/ 2% o2 gas if you want to achieve spray transfer. Great work though.
Thanks, yeah I seen that and Pauls comments. I was using the C10 initially but I was actually getting some better results with the 7525 but I think I wasn’t running fast or hot enough to be in the actual spray transfer.
absolutely awsome! Nice work. thanks for shareing
Thanks for watching!
love your job man!! that angle looks awesome 😎👍🏼
Thanks 👍
2:45, nice set up to cut that miter.......
lol thanks.
First time here, not last! Nice work buddy! God bless
Thanks for coming
@@VanoverMachineAndRepair Thanks for the welcoming man!! My father is heavy duty machinist and welder (working on trucks, dozers, excavators etc.) I am in to coach building (sheet metal forming/building cars and 3D modeling for body kits) I know how hard is that work you do, I have very huge respect for you! God bless!
@@werewolf00000 thanks I appreciate it!
Nice
Thanks
You related to a gregory vanover? Older fella, served overseas..worked with him. Hell of a dude.. somebody youd be proud to be related to.. when hes got his head on straight…. Loud noises didnt play too nice with him after his third term..
Hmm I don’t think so.
I have heard that vertical up welding is stronger for thicker material.
Maybe
Wow, great work.
Thanks a lot!
I'm sure you know this already but downhill mig is not optimal at all for penetration.
Also you mentioned using 75/25 for spray transfer, which is all I've ever used as well, and to the best of my knowledge you cant really get an actual spray transfer going with it, you're basically stuck in globular. From all I've read you need a gas with higher argon percentage for true spray transfer
Yeah true
What a great result.
Thank you
sad to hear of the warping issue......but useful information.......
how hard was it to remove the sandwiched plate from the angle plate
with all those magnets ? cheers, Paul
Hard lol. I knew if I stuck it on there raw I may never get it off so I experimented by putting sheets of paper under it and got it to a place where I was hard to remove, but I knew it would stay.
Because it was already warped what would of happened if you packed the warp onto the plate then faced the outside then flipped it over and faced the other side( besides losing more material of course )
It warped even more that previous during machining
You should of welded in the horizontal position. If you weld in the vertical you should weld up from bottom to top. Downward runs look great but have poor penetration.
Yes as others have noted
Shame that didn't work. I too would of thought that the magnets in that job would of held it flat and parallel enough for what it was intended. Did it call out for flatness while not installed?
I think it did I don’t remember I want to say .005 and it was .030 out if I remember correctly. Bad design really
Nice job on the angle plate. Shame the job you made it for went sh!t shaped, but having tried to surface grind some gibs really flat, I'm not surprised. In my case, the mag chuck sucked it down, and just like your job, it sprang back when the chuck was released. I guess the job could be done, but it sounds expensive!
Yeah indeed
🎉What about the deformation and stress due to welding, which will inevitably appear after the cutting operations are completed, after six months or more of aging?🎉
It’s been 9 months no movement
Have you inquired with the utility company about the cost to upgrade your existing service to 3 phase?
It’s 3 phase
Congratulations.
Thank you!
You need a Sure Shot sprayer very handy to have 😊😊
I got two
love'n it
Thanks!
that's why you charge T & M
Yeah
Great job!! Enjoyed the video, and learned. too bad about the customer parts.. poorly engineered, or mfg'd, or....
Agreed
I am convinced
Just subscribed
Thanks welcome aboard
@Vanover Customs I'm surprised I can't see any entry/exit swirl marks on the angle plate. What kind of insert did you use on that flycutter?
Honestly, nothing special it was some cheap triangular Insert they sent with the suburban to Fly Cutter. I think I honned it up a little bit on a stone, but I’m not sure that made too much of a difference to be honest. Really the rigidity and the lack of movement in the set up is what makes that big of a difference. I use the same set up in the Bridgeport with a much smaller bar and I still get good results but the best results come from the KT with pretty much no other changes in tooling.
Using the magnets to hold down the part might of been the problem, if you want to achieve a flatness on warped part you may want to start at a free stage as possible, keeping heat away from the surface should be considered.
Yep agreed
Not a professional welder at tall. However it's easier to weld horizontal that vertical .
👍
What's with the liquid all over the material? That weld will be like cinder toffee inside.
Unless you do stress relief heat treatment before machining it won't stay square.
Anti spatter
Did you check it for square on a surface plate?
No I checked it for square off the mill
Was your weld process dual shield or MIG?
MiG dual shield
I see a drilled hole next to the crossover, You must have done some "Testing balancing" ?
Yep
Nice project😊
Thank you! 😊
Hopefully the customer learned something from the experience, too. It sounds like their designer created something that looked good on paper, but but was next to impossible to successfully manufacture.
Agreed
straight with flame oxy axetilen, just lines.
Yeah
Why do you always say 'we' and you're the only one in the videos? 😂 Love the vids ❤
Habit it’s only me
Virtually every TH-camr machinist does exactly the same😂
@@samrodian919 lol
Nah. while you ruined one of their plates, if many turned down the job before you, as a customer i'd at least appreciate you giving it a shot. I wonder if a surface grinder might have been able to get the job done? p.s. Nice job on the fixture.
Yeah a big one probably
Could not find the Lisli tap socket "Adjustable" bought one, but just came 1/2", Uhg.
It came right up when I googled lisle tap socket
Not into machining but just curious. What is an angle plate for? Thanks.
to hold a workpiece perpendicular to the bed of the machine
Holding work at an angle
@@VanoverMachineAndRepair Thanks!
@@janvanruth3485 Thanks!
Will you cold blue the angle plate or leave raw ?
Raw probably