Please make a video on side bite and forward bite and how it affects driving when first getting into drifting. Excellent video !!! Thanks for posting Wout !💯👍
This was extremely interesting to watch. From my experience with drifting e36s, e46s and e60s I gotta say the e60 is really smooth due to the wheelbase. Not that the e36 and e46 weren't smooth, they have pretty long wheelbases as well, but the e60 definitely feels very very smooth, controllable and predictable, though probably a little slow on transitions. I still think the E60 is a very underrated chassis that drifters in both europe and the US should start to use more of soon. There are plenty of options to drift from the e60 generation: - E60 530i M54B30 231hp engine with a manual - car weighs 1490kg, aluminum chassis, when you do weight reduction you can in fact make it lighter than an e90, you can also turbo the M54, been done to death already on the e46 platform - E60 530i N52B30 258hp - newer gen engine, could potentially throw codes when drifting, but is definitely very driftable - E60 535i N54B30 306hp (US model) - a powerhouse of an engine but needs to be taken care of really good - I have this car imported from the US - E60 540i, 545i and 550i N62 V8's - don't really know much about them but I've seen people drift them, the engine supposedly isn't very good then we go onto the diesels - E60 530d M57D30TU2 218hp - the 3 liter legendary diesel engine from BMW - this one is amazing, not really that good for competitive drifting, but for grassroots stuff, using it as a beater seat time/practice car - it is very good, you can throw in a bigger turbo and a few other upgrades, get it to 350-380hp safely, 500hp is also possible but I've only seen the drag guys go that far with it. - M5 V10 manual (US Model) - Wout, I know you've already talked about this with Aaron and you want to have this. All of the above I have listed come in a manual. So realistically there are plenty of options, especially if you live in Europe. I think the E60 can be a real good platform that more companies and teams should invest in developing. Wisefab has an angle kit for it. Yes some people think it's heavy but that's only because the E60's are luxury cars which are always fitted with lots of options - electric heated seats, lots of soundproofing, etc. etc. The chassis itself as I said earlier is actually lighter than the E90.
Imo the e60 is an underrated chassis at least in the eu because its a big boat handling wise, yes it can be used for some skids with friends but personally i feel that it just feels boring to drive it. (Have owned a couple of e9x and e6x)
Love the video! I started drifting in a NA MX5 then moved to a stock JZX100. I noticed the JZX100 was easier due to the wheel base but over the years of playing with the suspension I was able to shorten the wheel base about an inch on the JZX100 by shortening the tension arms in the rear. That improved the rotation since they’re known for being lazy/not snappy. The JZX100 has the fuel tank right above the axle between the shock towers which is great for weight placement but since it’s so high that’s not great for keeping weight low. Also another thing that was interesting was when I was corner balancing the car the front to rear balance was 57.7/42.3 with a bolt in cage and full interior. The JZX100 actually doesn’t have much weight after the axle since the bodywork has no structure.
Yep, the rear body on them are pretty flimsy, S13 is way stronger even. But the Chasers are light cars, they're more like an E36. I had many cars on the scales, and for instance a Supra MK4 is pretty 50/50 from the factory. With the sedans its probably harder to do, since the cockpit isn't pushed backwards.
Coming from a Gt86 (101") with it's low COG and short booty. Now on a JZX100 (107") with it's long ass. The the chaser is a lot more smooth to transition, but also slower to transition. Obviously the wheelbase isn't the only difference so it's hard to say what has the biggest contribution, weight definitely plays a role. For some reason the jzx100 has a curb weight of 1400kg when I look it up, but I had it on the scales and was +-1600kg. (scales where for measuring trucks, so not sure how accurate they are) Biggest issue I have with the JZX is knowing where the ass of the car is. Placing the GT86 next to a wall was a lot easier.
My experience since 2011 in IRL and Sim, perfect wheelbase - for me - seems to be the Silvia. Shorter is too twitchy, longer is too lazy. Mostly drove Silvias so there may be a bias there but if I thought a chasis was better for me I would have switched. Got an S13 and S14 currently. E46 is quite sweet as a chasis, just a bit too long for my liking. A good drifter is expected to adapt to any chassis so that's a thing too.
I feel like one thing that we should take it to consideration when talking about wheelbase is track width. That ratio makes a difference. More square cars drive different rectangle cars.
i had 2 s13's easy to drift. now i got a e30 with rb25 swapped a lot harder to drift even with rear end camber caster toe plates installed. I should have swapped v8 on e30
main thing i noticed with shorter wheelbase cars i had to be more proactive with steering and stay on top of it way more like with a miata / rx7 vs a rwd sedans. smaller wheelbase was way better for autox. i think 98mm wheelbase and above could be all good depending on weight and where the weight is at. people do miatas and fc's all the time but not competitive at top for drifting, where as in autox those cars are like having cheat codes on some solo II layouts.
Thx! Excellent playlist. Thank you. Do you happen to have any videos or information on two way coilover damping tuning? Im having a hard time finding a basic guide on the compression to rebound ratios to get more or less grip with them. Basically how yo get the most out of them
I haven't learned how to actually drift but I currently drive around a lexus is250 which has a 107.5 wheelbase I love larger cars especially how this feels when the rear end moves around it happens so slowly you actually have some time to react to it I'm transitioning to building my racecar an e34 touring the 34 seems longer and with the v8 I'm hoping it feels similar and transitioning from drag racing to dipping my toes into actually drifting
@@DriftJesus I'm hoping if my measurements and visual inspection is right I can convert the car to use e60 suspension with no modification to the knuckles only a switch around
@@DriftJesus cheers from Eastern Europe! Maybe you could also go through the details about how different wheelbase affect the handling. That would be great!
I’ve been drifting a is300 105.1 for about 5years now and I feel it’s not too long not too short, I know papadakis has gone out and said 103 is the the perfect wheelbase and I trust what he says but why is a question, my next car is going to be a 135i chassis with 104.7
@@DriftJesus this is also true, I feel we look into weight distribution and wheelbases and other things that don’t seem as important in drifting vs other motorsports ad any car can win on any given day
@@TalkTime4 i did an interview with Aaron about this in New Jersey, in my opinion drifting simply isn't as "trickled down" into perfection that only the best car can win. But the car does play a large role. Guys are just good enough to make up for the differences.
Whats your opinion on the FC RX7? I know they are trailing arm rear, and some people say that they should be like an E36/E46 because of that, but no one really runs them at all for any pro stuff anymore.
Unlike the E30, the FC3S actually has a great trailing arm suspension designed for grip. You need to run solid subframe mounts, and replace the trailing arm bushings with rear bearings, as well as get AWR brand individual camber adjusters, then dial it in and send it! The roll center on the rear of an FC is literally below the ground. Like the solid rear axle mustang, the suspension has a LOT more capability than most drivers have skill to use 100% of it. The E30 rear is trash on the other hand. I think the reason you don't see an FC in formula drift is because people who like them such as Justin Pawlak, (JTP) got sponsored by Ford. It's more difficult to get sponsorship for a really old car like the RX-7 than a newer more relevant chassis.
Let me know below what you guys drive, and what your opinion / experience is on wheelbase !
Please make a video on side bite and forward bite and how it affects driving when first getting into drifting.
Excellent video !!! Thanks for posting Wout !💯👍
Miata was my first rwd car I owned and what I learned drift fundamentals on 😂 no wonder everything feels long lol
Never would have thought in a million years a soarer had a shorter WB than an e36
This was extremely interesting to watch. From my experience with drifting e36s, e46s and e60s I gotta say the e60 is really smooth due to the wheelbase. Not that the e36 and e46 weren't smooth, they have pretty long wheelbases as well, but the e60 definitely feels very very smooth, controllable and predictable, though probably a little slow on transitions. I still think the E60 is a very underrated chassis that drifters in both europe and the US should start to use more of soon. There are plenty of options to drift from the e60 generation:
- E60 530i M54B30 231hp engine with a manual - car weighs 1490kg, aluminum chassis, when you do weight reduction you can in fact make it lighter than an e90, you can also turbo the M54, been done to death already on the e46 platform
- E60 530i N52B30 258hp - newer gen engine, could potentially throw codes when drifting, but is definitely very driftable
- E60 535i N54B30 306hp (US model) - a powerhouse of an engine but needs to be taken care of really good - I have this car imported from the US
- E60 540i, 545i and 550i N62 V8's - don't really know much about them but I've seen people drift them, the engine supposedly isn't very good
then we go onto the diesels
- E60 530d M57D30TU2 218hp - the 3 liter legendary diesel engine from BMW - this one is amazing, not really that good for competitive drifting, but for grassroots stuff, using it as a beater seat time/practice car - it is very good, you can throw in a bigger turbo and a few other upgrades, get it to 350-380hp safely, 500hp is also possible but I've only seen the drag guys go that far with it.
- M5 V10 manual (US Model) - Wout, I know you've already talked about this with Aaron and you want to have this.
All of the above I have listed come in a manual. So realistically there are plenty of options, especially if you live in Europe. I think the E60 can be a real good platform that more companies and teams should invest in developing. Wisefab has an angle kit for it. Yes some people think it's heavy but that's only because the E60's are luxury cars which are always fitted with lots of options - electric heated seats, lots of soundproofing, etc. etc. The chassis itself as I said earlier is actually lighter than the E90.
Imo the e60 is an underrated chassis at least in the eu because its a big boat handling wise, yes it can be used for some skids with friends but personally i feel that it just feels boring to drive it. (Have owned a couple of e9x and e6x)
Every website I’ve seen says the mk4 Supra has a 100.4 inch wheelbase, not 98
i always tought that a 370z is a bigger wheelbase than an e30 - thanks for the video!! :)
Yep weird right!
Love the video! I started drifting in a NA MX5 then moved to a stock JZX100. I noticed the JZX100 was easier due to the wheel base but over the years of playing with the suspension I was able to shorten the wheel base about an inch on the JZX100 by shortening the tension arms in the rear. That improved the rotation since they’re known for being lazy/not snappy. The JZX100 has the fuel tank right above the axle between the shock towers which is great for weight placement but since it’s so high that’s not great for keeping weight low. Also another thing that was interesting was when I was corner balancing the car the front to rear balance was 57.7/42.3 with a bolt in cage and full interior. The JZX100 actually doesn’t have much weight after the axle since the bodywork has no structure.
Yep, the rear body on them are pretty flimsy, S13 is way stronger even. But the Chasers are light cars, they're more like an E36. I had many cars on the scales, and for instance a Supra MK4 is pretty 50/50 from the factory. With the sedans its probably harder to do, since the cockpit isn't pushed backwards.
Coming from a Gt86 (101") with it's low COG and short booty. Now on a JZX100 (107") with it's long ass. The the chaser is a lot more smooth to transition, but also slower to transition. Obviously the wheelbase isn't the only difference so it's hard to say what has the biggest contribution, weight definitely plays a role. For some reason the jzx100 has a curb weight of 1400kg when I look it up, but I had it on the scales and was +-1600kg. (scales where for measuring trucks, so not sure how accurate they are)
Biggest issue I have with the JZX is knowing where the ass of the car is. Placing the GT86 next to a wall was a lot easier.
My experience since 2011 in IRL and Sim, perfect wheelbase - for me - seems to be the Silvia. Shorter is too twitchy, longer is too lazy. Mostly drove Silvias so there may be a bias there but if I thought a chasis was better for me I would have switched. Got an S13 and S14 currently. E46 is quite sweet as a chasis, just a bit too long for my liking. A good drifter is expected to adapt to any chassis so that's a thing too.
I feel like one thing that we should take it to consideration when talking about wheelbase is track width. That ratio makes a difference. More square cars drive different rectangle cars.
see the other two videos in this series of three.
Love to see a video of e46 vs e90 have both chassis wondering most competitive chassis motor combo? Just trying to win some etown gamblers
Great video. Really enjoy hearing your opinion in tech stuff.
Thank you! Where are you watching from?
Canada 🇨🇦
i had 2 s13's easy to drift. now i got a e30 with rb25 swapped a lot harder to drift even with rear end camber caster toe plates installed. I should have swapped v8 on e30
main thing i noticed with shorter wheelbase cars i had to be more proactive with steering and stay on top of it way more like with a miata / rx7 vs a rwd sedans. smaller wheelbase was way better for autox. i think 98mm wheelbase and above could be all good depending on weight and where the weight is at. people do miatas and fc's all the time but not competitive at top for drifting, where as in autox those cars are like having cheat codes on some solo II layouts.
What about the relationship between track width and wheelbase
Watch the other 2 videos
just did a quick search and the jzx81/cressida is 104, and the same as a 350z! Wow!
Yeah many of these are deceiving!
Looking forward to more car setup videos. Would love to see you're opinions on adjustable swaybar setups and coilover spring rates
There's a podcast video on that
That awsome. I didnt know you have a podcast. Where can i find this
@@TheKeatyBear its a playlist on here
Thx! Excellent playlist. Thank you. Do you happen to have any videos or information on two way coilover damping tuning? Im having a hard time finding a basic guide on the compression to rebound ratios to get more or less grip with them. Basically how yo get the most out of them
@@TheKeatyBear there's so many videos of mine that we discuss that. Its in the setup 101 video for instance
I haven't learned how to actually drift but I currently drive around a lexus is250 which has a 107.5 wheelbase I love larger cars especially how this feels when the rear end moves around it happens so slowly you actually have some time to react to it I'm transitioning to building my racecar an e34 touring the 34 seems longer and with the v8 I'm hoping it feels similar and transitioning from drag racing to dipping my toes into actually drifting
E34 is a great car for grassroots drifting
@@DriftJesus I'm hoping if my measurements and visual inspection is right I can convert the car to use e60 suspension with no modification to the knuckles only a switch around
definitely need more info about the wheelbase!
Thanks for watching!
@@DriftJesus cheers from Eastern Europe!
Maybe you could also go through the details about how different wheelbase affect the handling. That would be great!
@@levanwhite2307 that's exactly what Part Two will be about , and including the viewers experience!
It's only 50% of required information. Track is also VERY important
1) you can change track width
2) video was already over 30 mins long
S15 is king has won more comps than others by far
2nd e92
I’ve been drifting a is300 105.1 for about 5years now and I feel it’s not too long not too short, I know papadakis has gone out and said 103 is the the perfect wheelbase and I trust what he says but why is a question, my next car is going to be a 135i chassis with 104.7
Makes sense! But now Aasbo is doing very well with the 97" wheelbase!
@@DriftJesus this is also true, I feel we look into weight distribution and wheelbases and other things that don’t seem as important in drifting vs other motorsports ad any car can win on any given day
@@TalkTime4 i did an interview with Aaron about this in New Jersey, in my opinion drifting simply isn't as "trickled down" into perfection that only the best car can win. But the car does play a large role. Guys are just good enough to make up for the differences.
@@DriftJesus ya i seen it 🙌
Whats your opinion on the FC RX7? I know they are trailing arm rear, and some people say that they should be like an E36/E46 because of that, but no one really runs them at all for any pro stuff anymore.
Its actually semi-trailing arm, like an E30. So they sort of suffer from the same drawbacks as E30's.
Unlike the E30, the FC3S actually has a great trailing arm suspension designed for grip. You need to run solid subframe mounts, and replace the trailing arm bushings with rear bearings, as well as get AWR brand individual camber adjusters, then dial it in and send it! The roll center on the rear of an FC is literally below the ground. Like the solid rear axle mustang, the suspension has a LOT more capability than most drivers have skill to use 100% of it.
The E30 rear is trash on the other hand. I think the reason you don't see an FC in formula drift is because people who like them such as Justin Pawlak, (JTP) got sponsored by Ford. It's more difficult to get sponsorship for a really old car like the RX-7 than a newer more relevant chassis.
The new supra has a shorter wheel base then the 240
Did you see the video?
we dont like inches :D
Rx8 is 106.4"
yep! also sort of a 4-door!
@DriftJesus I love mine especially coming from a 1st gen rx7
1st 🔥🔥🔥
Tx for watching!