As a Portuguese, the French connection is very strong indeed (I have family there), with about a million and a half 1st and 2nd generation Portuguese there. It is usually said that Paris is the 2nd city with more Portuguese in the world. Also Patrice Lagisquet is our manager, a frenchman (and a brilliant player in his time, WC finalist in 1987).
É verdade. Os padrinhos da minha mulher (portuguesa) mudaram para França e as filhas deles têm nacionalidade dupla. Lá eles tbm têm uma comunidade portuguesa onde ainda se fala português.
Bro you are all over this. Very impressed with your research and knowledge on the subject. As it stands, I like the flexibility. It gives tier 2 nations opportunities to grab more talent.
France is often wrongly considered as having a ton of foreign players when it's actually often one of those with the fewest. It's also consistently one of the largest provider of players for other countries. I'm talking about rugby but also football here. There are several Pacific Islanders in the squad but don't forget that France does have some Pacific Islands within its territory (Tahiti, New Caledonia, Wallis & Futuna, etc...) and except for Uini Atonio, those players come from there (Peato Mauvaka & Yoram Moefana from New Caledonia, Sipili Falatea from Wallis & Futuna, etc...).
not to forget that France basically train like 1/3rd of the football world cup African teams... so yeah, the "team-up" in sport goes both way (and most of the successful football players of African descent that played for France probably wouldn't have been as successful if being "grown" in their home country...)
@@MrAhuapai @MrAhuapai @MrAhuapai Your statement couldn't be any further from the truth😄 Thousands of Africans from other African states migrate to South Africa daily. South Africa has a HUGE immigration problem. They could've taken some young players from places like Nigeria & Ghana where the people have very good genetics when it comes to athletic ability & putting on muscle but SA is very confident of their own homegrown talent. England has more than enough Englishmen, Ireland have more than enough Irish men who play rugby. Scotland, Wales & France all have plenty of their own homegrown talent but they still use foreign born players with a totally different culture. I wonder why?🤔
Not surprising the number of Scots born and trained abroad. If you have 50:50 English Scottish ancestry (or even 75:25) and want to play international rugby historically you'd have a better shot in Scotland even if you came up through the English system. Given the dire state of English rugby maybe we'll see a reversal! Generally the trend seems to be if you have a strong academy and club system you'll train and retain more domestic players and if not you'll have to import them. Scotland, Tonga, and Samoa case in point. Argentina slightly bucks that trend but their cultural and geographic isolation probably explains it. Good to see NZ exports of dairy, lamb, and rugby players are keeping the economy going.
@@ricotalactea Exactly, grown in that rich soil and picked at peak ripeness. Joking aside I'm not saying Argentina youth development isn't good. My point was if Argentina was where Spain is they'd probably lose a lot more players to the French club system. The fact they are the dominant rugby power in the Americas means they don't lose as many players to neighbouring countries.
@@georgehornsby2075 😂😂 ...i understand your pov mate...but, with all respect to all nations and taking in account that there are not absoluto right or wrongs, Argentina has a well established club system since early xx Century...the geographic and económic situation left us out of professional leagues, and that's only after 1995, very different from Italy or Georgia or Japan....and by the way i think the Spanish squad we played in the warm ups had 9 Agentinians....best of luck!!!
Everyone talks about how New Zealand uses the islanders for the All Blacks but no one talks about the Kiwi export to the world. 30 Nz born players between Tonga and Samoa. More exports than anyone else.
I don't think its the islands are complaining about it though. Its only the Northern Hemisphere and South Africa who like to use it as an excuse when the All Blacks are winning.
Interesting that for such a small nation, 57 New Zealanders are playing for different nations this World Cup, 40 more than the next most exported country. Wonder what it would look like if that wasn’t allowed.
It’s simply because all the white people in new Zealand come from the UK. Most of which in the last couple of generations so so many of them are eligible for UK teams . Also you guys in New Zealand are absolutely obsessed with rugby. Don’t think there’s anywhere else in the world where it truely is THE sport
@@jimbo1706and I wonder what the All Blacks would be like if they were only allowed to select native born players? Their biggest stars have always been foreign born from Samoa or Tonga
ahhh yes.... richie mccaw and dan carter - peak samoan talent. are you having a laugh mate? Same for jonah, nonu, 3x barrets, 3x smiths and all the rest.... just to name the most recongisable big stars weve had in the professional era all of whcih born in nz.
Just to add a bit of context on the Scotland squad: Guys like Harris and Price were all involved in the Scottish system *as well as* the English one, the SRU has a programme called 'Scottish Exiles' which gets in touch with an invites Scottish qualified players in the UK to train a bit and just essentially advertises that that playing for Scotland is an option for them. Similarly, Redpath and Hastings (Hasto not in the squad) both have a previous Scotland international as a parent. Also, players like Steyn and Jones were in contact with the Scotland squad, with Steyn first actually playing for our sevens (non-capturing) before, and being given mor eof an opportunity at Glasgow than he would in SA. To be honest, this doesn't really 'justify' anything or whatever, Scotland's recent under 20 form shows that we have shockingly bad development, and I worry we're too reliant on 'mercenary' players. Doesn't mean I don't love our team, and to be honest Scotland is home to a lot of immigrants generally, and we have a very aged and welcoming population, honestly, without half the immigrants in Scotland our economy would be at a standstill !
I definitely think that playing for the country of your birth adds something a little bit extra into the mix. Maybe it's just a greater sense of pride or willing to try harder for your own country I'm not sure, but I do think it's tangible! Nice vid!
Being born in a country doesn't necessarily make it your country. My brother was born in England before my family moved back to Ireland. He has no real connection to any other country but the one he was raised in.
It’s your family heritage whether that one country or mixed heritage over generations. That what makes international sport that bit more special than club sport as you can’t just pick and choose. Yes your parents or yourself might move country but that’s a choice and doesn’t change who you are. If my parents moved from England to another country like SA that makes me English, not SA. I see this all the time with Irish, Welsh and Scot’s who move or born in England, where they will tell you they aren’t now English as that’s not their family heritage. If you are born in a country and desperate to play for that country that should be the bare. minimum to protect international sport
Anyone else having problems with audio and video not syncing correctly? Also, foreign born is fine, I'm personally a bit more on them being Homegrown though parental connections is fine, I'm a bit against grandparent connection and residency though.
In wales, if your pregnant mum became ill and had complications, they would rush her over the border to give birth in a maternity ward in England, and the baby would be officially English..so .thats how much sense or meaning all this homeborn stuff has. If you chose, with your one life and love and youthful energy to represent, and go all in with whatever country, thats all that matters.
Hahaha that's the most ridiculous example possible and fairly damning for the Welsh. You should play where you're born and raised, you can't choose, it's not a professional team.
I'm Irish, I know the residency rule has benefited us in the past and as you can see with Aki, Gibson-Park and Lowe currently but I think their should be an ancestral connection as far back as grandparents to be even considered from now on
Most people are afraid to say the obvious truth: NZ, AU have helped themselves to Pacific Island talent for decades, and now the big Northern countries are doing the same. How many of the "NZ" and "AU" players are eligible through a parent or a grandparent to play for Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, or Cook Islands? How many of the 57 "New Zealanders" who play for other countries are actually New Zealanders, and not Islanders who have come up through the NZ rugby system? The only Tier 1 team that represents one country and one country only is South Africa. I guess Argentina is also Tier 1 these days, but they'll do well to make the semis. I don't have a problem with historically weaker teams getting a leg up by including someone with ethnic ancestry, e.g. Mack Hansen for Ireland, or Pacific Islanders who grew up in New Zealand and Australia. It's good for the game and kudos to someone who wants to represent the country of his indigenous ancestors. What I do have a problem with is the big teams like AU, NZ, England, France using big $$$ and talent scouts to drain smaller, poorer countries of their rugby talent. "But but but those countries have spent a lot of resources on developing Pacific Islanders, why shouldn't they get first dibs on them?" Because it's not good for the game, and it is highlighted every World Cup. Imagine how exciting it would be if Fiji, Tonga, and Samoa were genuine threats to SA, NZ, and AU, instead of serving as a good warm-up for the one or two group games per pool that we actually take seriously. "But but but Fiji ALMOST beat Wales!" That's my point. With the talent that Fiji have, the headline should have been "Wales defeats mighty Fiji!" but instead people fall over themselves to cheer on Fiji the underdog, when it should never be the underdog in the first place. The Pacific Islands are weaker for being neighbours of AU and NZ, and world rugby is robbed of genuine contests every year, and especially in the World Cup. The irony is that the serial offenders, AU and NZ, are losing their edge because they have less exposure to South African opposition and because the Northern countries are tapping into their Pacific Island supply of next generation's superstars. So in a weird way, the game is both poorer but also sort of more equal, but only at the top.
yo shit analogy considering fiji just beat Australia. whats ruining rugby is south africa and northern hemispheres boring ass rules not New Zealand exporting talent overseas via our very good talent production machine
Same as football club supporters. In a Glasgow pub a few years back I was amused by how proud the local lads were of Hendrik Laarson playing for Celtic. I didn't say anything though because the lads had celtic tattoos on their chests and the pub was called the Shark's mouth.
I do have a bit of an issue with what's called Foreign Born here. Henry Arundell was born in/on Dhekelia, which is a British army base on Cyprus. He was born to British/English parents. That doesn't make him Dhekelian or non-English. By these standards those born overseas due to their parents living there (temporarily), but moving back later are classed as foreigners. That's not really how it works I would say. Foreigners would be those that previously held a different passport.
Foreign Born is literally foreign born. Is Cyprus outside of England? The answer is yes. Pretty simple. Also you seem to be oblivious to the important fact that mark paid more attention to foreign raised numbers for obvious reasons.
He was too fat and slow to play NPC or Super, so it didn't matter that he was a useful specialist prop at the time. It's a focus on the all-round, positionless rugby attitude in NZ that's led them to the point of having perilously few specialist forwards in key positions, most notably at lock and in the front row.
Politics aside, England Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland are all united in one country (while obviously being their own countries too) so I'd say going from Scotland to England and vice versa is probably similar to going between north and south Island in New Zealand.
"Politics aside, England Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland are all united in one country" I hope you see the fundamental contradiction in that? :D No trying to get at you, but have you polled a lot of Scots, Welsh or NI about that?
@@TwoCentsRugbyWith Welsh people especially, it used to be the Irish, but since they got rich on EU money, it’s the Welsh, like me who move to England for opportunity, we are so closely linked which is part of the reason that the rivalry is so fierce.
Ireland didn't get rich on EU money. They got rich thanks to the EU single market, as did every country including Germany. But they generated that wealth thanks to prudent economic policies that attracted foreign national corporations like Apple and education policies that made Ireland have one of the highest university graduate populations in the world, that together helped Ireland turn from a largely agricultural economy to an advanced and highly educated economy. But none of it was from EU handouts. Any money the EU gave Ireland to bail out it's banks was paid back in record time with interest. Ireland got nothing handed to it for free. If the EU was handing free money to every country in the EU, Poland, Greece, and Romania would also be wealthy economies like Ireland. Successive Irish governments succeeded where the governments of other countries -including Wales that has a smaller economy than Ireland -failed and that was in turning the European single market to the country's advantage, but that was all down to Irish political and economic prudence, not gifts from the EU
You're pretty much right on how the connections work for the Home Nations; Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland/ROI and England. Obviously things are a bit shakier now, but people used to always be going between these countries in search of opportunities.The non-English diaspora in England has always been massive
in rugby there is not distinction between "Northern Ireland/ROI" So you are wrong inside 20% of your quite short comment. In addition. If you do not play in ireland you do not qualify for the national team. Diaspora has nothing to do with it. With the notable exception of that stint sexton spent in france against his will. But that's another conversation entirely
@@DAGATHire Yep, these things you've said are not incorrect, just wanted to signal to TwoCents that the situation in 'The British Isles' is similar to his reckoning at 6:20
@@cian69 naa mate, that was a cash grab tho, but not by sexton, but rather by his sports agent at the time, basically blackmailing the IRFU with contract demands and an or else attitude. Even ronan o'gara who became good mates with sexton mentioned this fact in a documentary. Sexton just wants to be a rugby player, not a commodity and he got rightly caught up in a load of shite then. But hey, every day is a school day, hope that has been a lesson.
Big hypothetical, but I'd be legible to play for Spain based on my grandfather. It's something I'm quite proud of , to have that connection to that country, but I barely speak the language and have only spent maybe 2weeks in country in my whole life! Again, hypothetical but I'm not sure it would be 'right' for me to play for Spain
Yeah man hypothetically given that I spent 7 years of my life in China - if I had been playing rugby there I could have played for the Chinese team on residency... but yeah it'd be weird
To be considered Welsh born or English born could literally depend on which room you were born in, (OK, exaggerating, but not much) Many people who live in Wales are born in hospitals in England or the other way around. Same with where the registry is, in England or Wales, so it is difficult to be sure. Latterly not quite so chaotic as there is now a 'Local' government in Wales and funding decides who goes where to be born so easier to work out in future.
Really interesting, thanks. Tbh, I really don't give a damn where anyone was born, if the footy is good, that is the thing which reflects most on that particular country's system. Interesting that 57 NZ born playing for other teams, that makes 90 NZ born players at the cup, not counting replacements. That says something but who cares, like I say, as long as we see a great RWC.
Bloody nuce work as usual mate. Will do some research but im interested to know how many of the foreign originated players foe Japan actually have Citizenship.
I'd say none. You have to have japanese blood to even apply. There is generations of immigrants with no citizenship... Mostly of Brazilian extraction. Even 50:50 folk, born in kaon struggle to obtain citizenship.
Gee, and when I see a lot of French press being like "hurr durr we've got so many foreign players" and other Saffas in the comments on TH-cam saying we stole their players like Willemse... I shall henceforth quote your video as a reference to shut them up :D
I would increase the residency category. 5 yrs is way to short. Makes it unfair for the homegrown lads who are not getting selected. Talented young rugby players can head overseas on professional contracts and by the time they 25 or 26 which is likely their prime they can potentially play and keep somebody else out the team. I dont believe that is right.
I would leave the residency because some people genuinely want to live in another country; take Tendai Beast Mtawarira, for example. But I would say that residency, even for a lesser length of time, needs to be completed before parental or grandparent eligibility kicks in. Had Sione Tuipulotu ever set foot in Scotland before being poached? Brad Shields ever set foot in England? Also, World Rugby need to step in and enforce a maximum number of non-citizen players allowed in any squad, whether they have completed their residency or not. I would also say that if you qualify only on residency, then you can only continue to play for that country while you are actually a resident there or have gained citizenship. No more Duhan van der Merwe qualifying for Scotland and immediately leaving for England while still playing for Scotland.
@@Karma-qt4ji You bring up some great points. Perhaps a good line in the sand for the ancestry cases should be Citizenship. Gain full legal citizenship and you can play. That doesn't alway happen as you step off the boat. I'm sure countries would fast track it but it would be a step in the right direction. If my memory serves me correctly Quad Cooper does not hold Australia citizenship. I am by no means questioning his eligibility but he has been unable to meet the necessary requirements to gain full citizenship due to his ongoing rugby commitments. With regards to residency it will be very hard to make a one size fits all rule by adjudicating individual cases. And how do we decide which players want to represent a specific adopted country Vs players who want to play international rugby. The rugby fraternity is excited about an extremely competitive landscape heading into this RWC with some of the so called Tier 2 nation's showing legitimate upset potential. So perhaps the globalised state of international rugby is feeding into that competitiveness and we should be more receptive to it. Which to be perfectly honest I think the average rugby fan is totally okay with. These topics will always crop up every so often and sparks a good healthy debate about the state of our beloved sport. I am so excited for this WC... Bring it on!
Did a bit of research for the RLWC last year, and found that majority were NRL players of Aus, NZ and island descents. Love how Tedesco was kangaroos captain in 22 but Italian captain in 17.
People don't realise how good australia is especially once you include islanders and kiwis raised there. I truly believe if they chose union instead of league they would even dominate south africa
The french "highlanders" were all born in french territory, speak french, went to french school, played for France u20 etc... Most of them arrived in continental France around 13-15 years old, (Taofifenua born in France). They have no connection whatsoever with any other country. If they're not french what are they exactly? Nothing?
Great video! On the note about players/people moving between Eng, Sco, and Wales and Northern Ireland. I would say that it isn't like New Zealanders moving from NZ to Aus. Because the UK is really one country it is more like someone moving from Wellington to Auckland
They are countries and they have separate rugby teams though? Moving from NZ to Aus requires zero paperwork, no visas, its simply a plane ticket you are paying for. Auckland and Wellington are cities and they're not playing at the World Cup
On the UK situation, you're more or less right. There's also the border born, parents live on one side of the border, however, nearest maternity ward is on the other (Like the former soccer player 'Michael Owen' who's parent's were from North Wales, but he was born in the Countess of Chester Hospital, just over the border and raised in North Wales.)
Then why is new zealand number 1 country at producing players for other countries? And the numbers even higher at club level. For its size nz is batting way above their average
The French team are a little more complicated as they have a few players who were born and raised on the other side of the planet and moved to France later in life to play rugby but they just happen to be born on an island in the Pacific which is a French territory.
This is good information. My Son is currently 3 and is showing some real potential! He does have an Australian father, a Japanese mother, a Scottish Grandfather, an Irish Grandmother, and an English Grandfather. What nation do you think he should represent at the 2039 world cup? 😂
Fiji could also field home grown player if they want to for example Ratuva(Fijian born) instead of Nasilasila(Australian born) Nakarawa(Fijian born instead of Cirikidaveta(Newzealand Born) Dolokoto(Fijian Born) instead of Togiatama(Newzealand born) Botitu(Fijian Born) instead of Muntz(Newzealand born)
Twocent is a Rugby fan before he is a Kiwi fan. He is the best kind of fan. The dude put on an England shirt after England beat New Zealand in the 2019 Semi Final. 😭
You can also ask a Frenchman to give the pronounciation in a good way. the same for : Leroux, DuToit, De Villiers, Joubert, Malherbe, Du Preez, Fourie ... who have French ascent ( does it matter ?)
so? he's a poach.The irish are the worst when it comes to accusing other countries,particularly NZ.But they're not shy in using their project player scheme to poach kiwi talent. fucking hypocrites.
@@richardscanlan3419Nah, we definitely don't. The only ones I've ever heard criticise are SA, which is understandable because they only play their own. It's benefited us over the years. Even if your name is Scanlan we don't claim you.
Drivel - the irish are the biggest loudmouths when it comes to slagging off NZ.Any rugby forum will show that. As for my ancestry,that's ok,I've no interest in being claimed by you scum@@icemanire5467
That was actually way fewer players from the big sides coming from other countries than I thought it would be! Kudos to teams like Namibia, who presumably could be tempted to import players but haven’t.
@@aaronforde9608not really, like every country there’s only one national team, so the opportunity is the same, and it’s because the system is so good that so many New Zealand players are good enough to be selected for teams to represent other countries.
The only issue i have with the grandparent rule is that it creates a weird situation with the kids of some players. For example say J. Prop qualifies for Ireland via a grandparent but his parents are English. J. Prop plays 80 times for Ireland. He has a son, K. Prop. K's parents are all english hes born in england and his grandparents are all english too. It's impossible, unless he commits to residency, for K to follow in his father's footsteps internationally. Which seems a bit trivial in my opinion but also makes sense.
Thanks for the healthy topics to talk about in which we believe couid be the contributing factor to the success of any team. This is to find out the authenticity of the each and individual players in each team participating in the world cup... One thing I would like to contribute in this forum is that no matter how we try to say it like this n like that... it is all about the authenticity of your blood will always prevail.. Example if you are a Samoan Blood n play in England..... you play for that Jercy, win or loose ... it doesn't matter... but if Samoa team win or loose it really affects them badly inside and outside.... One thing that we should understand our authenticity automatically connects to the place of originality.... in other words, people's blood spiritually connected to their place of originality. And this is not new... it's right from the beginning. Another example Fiji.. Never mind any Fijian have been migrated to a new adopted country and that adopted new country provided him with everything he needs and groomed up to reach maximum potentials... deep inside him, his place of origins comes first than his adopted country ... and he always finds time to cheer for his country of his originality.....😮
Citizenship. One word to describe who qualifies to represent a nation, Citizenship. And if a player is a dual citizen, the player chooses, by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
I'm desperate to know who the identity of one player at this World Cup born in Dhekelia, a totally random UK overseas territory most people don't even know exists. (It's a British army base on the island of Cyprus that remained British when Cyprus declared independence after WWII.)
Its really just opinion where you pick the line on the time to residency pathway. For me at least 7 years within that countries system, if your not born there, before you become eligible. (i.e. commitment of your career to the nation your rep) e.g. If you move when you're 15 you can become eligible at 22. Most players sign pro around 20 so you'd have one shot at picking your nation and be committing if you move as an adult. I'd also get rid of the grand parents part and just have you can rep where your parents were born only.
The question that should be asked is has importing players made Scotland stronger than were being as they’ve gained the most from imported players. The higher the ranking, the closer to home the players should be born.
I said it in another thread here.... by buying their players, both Scotland and Ireland have elevated themselves above the level of other mid-table teams, the place where Scotland and Ireland have historically sat. We will probably never again see an Argentina side pummelling Ireland as they did in 2015 and Ireland will probably never lose to Japan again, even if Japan improve to the level they were at in 2019. Neither will Scotland with their 5 new South Africans and one Tongan fall prey to the likes of Japan. Instead of growing their own teams, they have simply bought them, at least in part. World Rugby needs to step in again and limit the number of foreign players in each squad, and not only for RWC's. And by foreign I mean recruited professional rugby players who do not have citizenship for the country they are representing. If the Vunipola's, Faletau's, Gregan's, Pockock's and Mehrtens's of this world want to represent the country they grew up in then they have every right to do so.
@@barryb90 Put another way, 20% of their starting lineup, because those three are almost always going to start in the 'big' games. Quoting a newspaper article at the time Augustin Pichot was pushing for the residency period to change, "In his eyes ‘project players’ are just a way of the larger tier one nations buying an advantage over the smaller unions, and that the idea money could have any impact on the international game is fundamentally wrong." And because of the delay to the residency change because of Covid, JGP and James Lowe were eligible for selection two years early. And Ireland made the most of that, pushing them into the side the minute the clock ran down. Think Argentina still have a chance to smash Ireland like they did in 2015? Think Japan, even if they get to the level of their former glory, will ever beat Ireland again? Ireland have literally bought insurance that these things will not be repeated.
@@Karma-qt4jion current form even without the nz players Ireland can beat Argentina and Japan so this is a silly argument. Also it was only two kiwis starting in the six nations. As bundee is usually a sub unless henshaw or ringrose is injured which is often the case. Also it's a bit foolish say that as if ireland don't have world class players who perform more consistently either.
@@Teesroad form also comes from the overall performance of the team; more difficult to have form if you're losing every weekend or permanently on the back foot for example. As the number one ranked side going into the 2019 RWC one could argue that you did have some form, yet you lost to Japan. A year later you pushed JGP and Lowe into the side as quickly as possible before the residency window shifted but you had lost CJ Stander. My issue is not that you have / had Kiwis or SAFFA's in the team, my issue is the way you actively recruit them under the protocols set out by your union. Club contracts offered to established professional players already playing in the highest domestic league. You claim them as your own, talking up how Irish they are and how integrated they are and then go "oh look, a squirrel" when they hang up their boots and piss off back home like CJ did. Ireland *do* have world class players and they do perform well, but as long as you continue to take the piss with the eligibility laws the rest of us are not actually going to give you any credit for that. It's all legal and all, but unethical as fuck! Let's see if you get this analogy.... it's the same as Jimmy Carr saying that he did pay *some* tax....
Ease of travel around Europe is always difficult to describe if you haven’t experienced it. You could live in one country, work in another, have your closest rugby club in a third, and thinking nothing of it!
Home grown and developed is what matters to me. It doesn´tmake sense that all teams are National, but their players are not pure nationals. Might as well create 20 franchises and play a World Cup of Franchises, whence it would make better sense to give credit to exporting nations.
France and Portugal are comparable to OZ-NZ - migrating for economic opportunities. The situation is comparable in football where many Portuguese players are French born.
Holidaying in Northern Portugal I was astonished by all the French reg cars, until a local explained they were all home for annual holidays from their work places in southern France
Another top-notch video Mark. Very interesting numbers. And yeah, how and where does one draw the line(s)? Understanding their reasons (it's 2023 after all), I just remain a bit peeved off by Saffers in foreign teams. 😡 Us Saffers somehow (traditionally) perceived that as being "treasonous". 🙈 Hence we just love it when great players such as Duan van der Merwe and Pierre Schoeman (both Scotland) get smashed by their Bok opponents! 😂 It's as if we "hate" them (even) more than their team mates! 😂 That's why we welcomed Jean Kleyn back into the "Saffer fold" with open arms. Home, where he belongs ... at last! 😂 Lol. Have a good one mate. Cheers from Safferland.
As a Scot, I have been lamenting the state of our graassroots game for years and it doesn't look to be improving. Doesn't help that Mark Dodson, head of the SRU, seems to see no issue with it.
To be honest NZ grassroots is not in a healthy state as it used to be. Some big schools no longer have a third or second XV sides due to lack of numbers. The high school game is now geared towards high performance which means smaller schools can't compete, lose their good players to bigger schools (often with scholarships). So our player base at that level is shrinking, we'll see if it makes a big difference going forward. I feel like it will reduce the number of late bloomers because instead of plugging away in a second string side until they find their form, they'll just quit
I think you might want to relook at the French team, the islander players apart from uini come largely from French Polynesia, most notably Wallis and futuna
Yeah I remember I called one of the French Polynesian players foreign born back in 2018 - the backlash from French fans was intense 😅 But yeah I think for this Paul has included those places in with mainland France
I mean, those Islands are a full part of France, their youth rugby is funded by France, and what other team could they play for? @@TwoCentsRugby @d_handler
They just have that strong a culture to be born somewhere else and still represent their parents country. Or just not good enough to make nz or aus😂 mate even japan now😂
I reckon Samoa's numbers are so much lower due to the situation caused by their former chairman/president killing the game in the country, i reckon with him gone those numbers will go up.
Scotland/Wales is tricky, if your Da' moves to England for work, you've not actually gone to a foreign country per se. No passport, same government etc. Sometimes the difference between US states is bigger.
Make sense for sa if you've played school boy rugby in SA you know it's a factory fof players and in the DNA of so many boys. Even the ones that were foriegn born in the past were
IMHO, 5 years residency is about right - I hated the 3 years. As you highlight, the numbers only tell part of the story - given how people naturally move between some countries (e.g. uk & ie, italians in part of south france, etc.).
Most of these cases are no real issue but the amount of top Pacific islanders poached by NZ and Australia really needs to be addressed. If rugby union is to become a truly global sport then we need greater competition and second tier nations need to be assisted.
Because if you watched the video you'd have seen that 57 (highest btw) nz born players are playing for other countries teams and Australia 2nd most exported players at 17
@@Bigdoggobrien That's not the point. Nations like Japan take the also rans but NZ and Australia pick off the top talent. Similar situation to English footballers playing for Ireland. If they are good enough they play for England.
You do know that Tonga and Samoa have 30 NZ born players between their teams? Are you not concerned about that? There are more pacific islanders in New Zealand than the entire Oceania combined. And no Rugby is not a global sport, never has been and will be a very long time untill it is. Basketball is a global sport. Also there is no top talent in the islands, there are only athlete's. You cant become a top player playing in an enclosed nation like a island nation. Thats just reality. Players leave the islands to get better.
In 20 years time you are gonna have Samoan Tongan players who grew up in Tongan and Samoan up brining but no parents and grandparents born in the islands. This is going to really muddy waters because as you know us islanders always say we are Tongan Samoan with the nz born or aussie born added to it
@@Antibot2025are you a European South African? If not. Please do not speak for us. If you are, get some pride in that bones. I consider myself an African. It is African soil that makes up my body. It is the African spirit that influences my perception in life. My DNA might be from Europe. That's just the building plan, but the building blocks are all African. SOUTH AFRICAN
Some say in coments how they are not bodered by nacionalities but is a big issue and can take big consecuences if not well managed by the national teams, if not go ask Spain on how they lost their place in the world cup due a "misunderstood" time lapse of a nationalized SA player .Romania was well and inteligently informed and placed a formal complain that lend to Spain been turn down and Romania to enter in the world cup .So is no small matter all national teams are with their eyes in this matter when comes the time .
Ireland get slated for foreign born players, but only aki, lowe and Gibson park qualify through residency, Murray and henshaw often start ahead of aki and Gibson park so for people to say we would be average without foreign born players is ridiculous. If they were so good they’d play for their own nations. The majority of our top players are Irish through and through
Your *deluded* bud *Gibson Park* is all over Murray, that's why he was rested in warm up game v Samoa. *Aki* 50/50 but still plays and what about *James Lowe?* He seems to be a *regular starter* and don't forget names of the past like *Jared Payne* and *Issac Boss* oh and who can forget the man *who started it all* for Ireland *NZL born* coach *Joe Schmidt* have I missed any names?
@@MeanAzz_13 Are you a wee bit deluded or just cranky that your nation is not No. 1 in the world? (And lost against France) Ireland never won anything (sarcasm), before Schmidt (what a typical New Zealand name, what might his ancestry be?) came around, sure... Lowe, yeah, could be replaced with Stockdale... Payne made a whopping 20 test matches and at Ulster, Luke Marshall or Trimble played his position with same quality and he just became a regular when Olding had an incident that made him be suspended... Isaac Boss, oh wait, where did his family come from... Glenarm at the County Antrim coast?
![เป็นไปได้ไหม - WanMai [Teaser] | 05-12-24](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/P5Uto6e453w/mqdefault.jpg)
To be fair, anyone called 'Hamish' should only ever be allowed to play for Scotland.
Lol yeah World Rugby need to act on that
🤣
And Jordie.
kiwi born and raised but i have a very scottish name - Hamish Moffat.
need to do that ancestory test to see how much if any scottish i am
@@flyingkiwi3748 Went to school with a boy called Hamish. We used to call him Lamish. True story.
If you wanna go straight to a specific country :
0:50 Argentina and South Africa
1:03 Namibia
1:23 Uruguay
1:31 Georgia
1:57 France
2:24 Chile
2:39 Fidji
3:19 England
3:48 Australia
4:27 Ireland
5:11 New Zealand
6:19 Wales
7:19 Portugal
7:41 Romania
8:19 Italy
8:53 Scotland
9:54 Japan
10:54 Tonga
11:59 Samoa
Summary : 13:08
Thanks
Nice. He hasn't spotted that Caelan Doris is actually a bio-mechanoid robot!
@@inamortz2372lmao
@@inamortz2372he missed the South African Van der Flier as well, hopeless
@@peadarrVan der Flier is Dutch not South African👍
As a Portuguese, the French connection is very strong indeed (I have family there), with about a million and a half 1st and 2nd generation Portuguese there. It is usually said that Paris is the 2nd city with more Portuguese in the world. Also Patrice Lagisquet is our manager, a frenchman (and a brilliant player in his time, WC finalist in 1987).
É verdade. Os padrinhos da minha mulher (portuguesa) mudaram para França e as filhas deles têm nacionalidade dupla. Lá eles tbm têm uma comunidade portuguesa onde ainda se fala português.
Bro you are all over this. Very impressed with your research and knowledge on the subject. As it stands, I like the flexibility. It gives tier 2 nations opportunities to grab more talent.
Best rugby channel hands down folks. Gives credit where it’s due. 100 pct authentic. Good kiwi lad
France is often wrongly considered as having a ton of foreign players when it's actually often one of those with the fewest. It's also consistently one of the largest provider of players for other countries. I'm talking about rugby but also football here.
There are several Pacific Islanders in the squad but don't forget that France does have some Pacific Islands within its territory (Tahiti, New Caledonia, Wallis & Futuna, etc...) and except for Uini Atonio, those players come from there (Peato Mauvaka & Yoram Moefana from New Caledonia, Sipili Falatea from Wallis & Futuna, etc...).
Same goes with NZ… people say they use the islands to field players but it’s just frankly not true and people say it to delegitimise NZ’s success
not to forget that France basically train like 1/3rd of the football world cup African teams...
so yeah, the "team-up" in sport goes both way
(and most of the successful football players of African descent that played for France probably wouldn't have been as successful if being "grown" in their home country...)
Why have France got such Pacific colonies in the first place ? It’s not France!
Respect to South Africa🇿🇦 & Argentina🇦🇷 for fielding 100% homegrown & home born players👍🏻👍🏻
Thats because no one migrates there.
@@MrAhuapai @MrAhuapai @MrAhuapai Your statement couldn't be any further from the truth😄 Thousands of Africans from other African states migrate to South Africa daily. South Africa has a HUGE immigration problem. They could've taken some young players from places like Nigeria & Ghana where the people have very good genetics when it comes to athletic ability & putting on muscle but SA is very confident of their own homegrown talent. England has more than enough Englishmen, Ireland have more than enough Irish men who play rugby. Scotland, Wales & France all have plenty of their own homegrown talent but they still use foreign born players with a totally different culture. I wonder why?🤔
@@MrAhuapaiignorant.
@@MrAhuapai True
@@MrAhuapaione can either immigrate or emigrate ........only birds migrate.
Good onya mate. Just woke up to your awesome podcast with the big name players. Legend. Go rugby!!!
Yeah man two international captains on Two Cents Rugby was pretty nuts!
@@TwoCentsRugby You were awesome. Great questions. Good energy. You fit right in.
The amount of lads we have in overseas clubs surprised there were only 9 South Africans playing others. NZ though, wow.
NZ. The rugby assembly line just keeps spitting them out.
Another good video. We know it takes a lot of time and hard work to make these videos. Love from Sri Lankan fan.
Really interesting, thank you! Maybe an addition to this subject would be to list where each teams coaches come from.
Oh yeah so true cause that also factors into their win rate I think
Another point to mention is that half the rugby talent in Australia and NZ are playing "rugby league". LITERALLY HALF.
Not surprising the number of Scots born and trained abroad. If you have 50:50 English Scottish ancestry (or even 75:25) and want to play international rugby historically you'd have a better shot in Scotland even if you came up through the English system. Given the dire state of English rugby maybe we'll see a reversal!
Generally the trend seems to be if you have a strong academy and club system you'll train and retain more domestic players and if not you'll have to import them. Scotland, Tonga, and Samoa case in point.
Argentina slightly bucks that trend but their cultural and geographic isolation probably explains it.
Good to see NZ exports of dairy, lamb, and rugby players are keeping the economy going.
So you say Porta, Contepomi, Hernández, Roncero and many others were planted from seeds on the Pampa and that's how we harvest Pumas players?😂😂
@@ricotalactea Exactly, grown in that rich soil and picked at peak ripeness.
Joking aside I'm not saying Argentina youth development isn't good. My point was if Argentina was where Spain is they'd probably lose a lot more players to the French club system. The fact they are the dominant rugby power in the Americas means they don't lose as many players to neighbouring countries.
@@georgehornsby2075 😂😂 ...i understand your pov mate...but, with all respect to all nations and taking in account that there are not absoluto right or wrongs, Argentina has a well established club system since early xx Century...the geographic and económic situation left us out of professional leagues, and that's only after 1995, very different from Italy or Georgia or Japan....and by the way i think the Spanish squad we played in the warm ups had 9 Agentinians....best of luck!!!
Everyone talks about how New Zealand uses the islanders for the All Blacks but no one talks about the Kiwi export to the world. 30 Nz born players between Tonga and Samoa. More exports than anyone else.
This video has shut up a lot of people.
I don't think its the islands are complaining about it though. Its only the Northern Hemisphere and South Africa who like to use it as an excuse when the All Blacks are winning.
@@rockkid8306 AG shame on you!
Who gives a shit
Nice stats TC. Thought provoking stuff. 👍🇿🇦
Interesting that for such a small nation, 57 New Zealanders are playing for different nations this World Cup, 40 more than the next most exported country. Wonder what it would look like if that wasn’t allowed.
It’s simply because all the white people in new Zealand come from the UK. Most of which in the last couple of generations so so many of them are eligible for UK teams . Also you guys in New Zealand are absolutely obsessed with rugby. Don’t think there’s anywhere else in the world where it truely is THE sport
Just a crap world Cup tournament 😂
Add coaches to the ban!
@@jimbo1706and I wonder what the All Blacks would be like if they were only allowed to select native born players? Their biggest stars have always been foreign born from Samoa or Tonga
ahhh yes.... richie mccaw and dan carter - peak samoan talent. are you having a laugh mate?
Same for jonah, nonu, 3x barrets, 3x smiths and all the rest.... just to name the most recongisable big stars weve had in the professional era all of whcih born in nz.
Just to add a bit of context on the Scotland squad: Guys like Harris and Price were all involved in the Scottish system *as well as* the English one, the SRU has a programme called 'Scottish Exiles' which gets in touch with an invites Scottish qualified players in the UK to train a bit and just essentially advertises that that playing for Scotland is an option for them. Similarly, Redpath and Hastings (Hasto not in the squad) both have a previous Scotland international as a parent. Also, players like Steyn and Jones were in contact with the Scotland squad, with Steyn first actually playing for our sevens (non-capturing) before, and being given mor eof an opportunity at Glasgow than he would in SA. To be honest, this doesn't really 'justify' anything or whatever, Scotland's recent under 20 form shows that we have shockingly bad development, and I worry we're too reliant on 'mercenary' players. Doesn't mean I don't love our team, and to be honest Scotland is home to a lot of immigrants generally, and we have a very aged and welcoming population, honestly, without half the immigrants in Scotland our economy would be at a standstill !
Having Only around half of the Scottish rugby team actually being Scottish is embarrassing. No wonder Scotland is doing very well now.
Scottish team should basically just change the name to mercenary world 15
@@big-papa-jimmysavillekiddy2181 Nah, the only thing embarrassing is your name bawbag.
I definitely think that playing for the country of your birth adds something a little bit extra into the mix. Maybe it's just a greater sense of pride or willing to try harder for your own country I'm not sure, but I do think it's tangible! Nice vid!
For people whose parents migrate, the country you live in from 6 to 14 is often your "real" home country - that you dream of representing.
@@alanmulcahy7749 True, I should have said the country that most feels like your home country.
How about playing for the country of your accent?
Being born in a country doesn't necessarily make it your country. My brother was born in England before my family moved back to Ireland. He has no real connection to any other country but the one he was raised in.
It’s your family heritage whether that one country or mixed heritage over generations. That what makes international sport that bit more special than club sport as you can’t just pick and choose. Yes your parents or yourself might move country but that’s a choice and doesn’t change who you are. If my parents moved from England to another country like SA that makes me English, not SA. I see this all the time with Irish, Welsh and Scot’s who move or born in England, where they will tell you they aren’t now English as that’s not their family heritage. If you are born in a country and desperate to play for that country that should be the bare. minimum to protect international sport
Anyone else having problems with audio and video not syncing correctly?
Also, foreign born is fine, I'm personally a bit more on them being Homegrown though parental connections is fine, I'm a bit against grandparent connection and residency though.
I'm not a fan of residency.
In wales, if your pregnant mum became ill and had complications, they would rush her over the border to give birth in a maternity ward in England, and the baby would be officially English..so .thats how much sense or meaning all this homeborn stuff has.
If you chose, with your one life and love and youthful energy to represent, and go all in with whatever country, thats all that matters.
Hahaha that's the most ridiculous example possible and fairly damning for the Welsh. You should play where you're born and raised, you can't choose, it's not a professional team.
Those are the perks, I guess. 😢
I'm Irish, I know the residency rule has benefited us in the past and as you can see with Aki, Gibson-Park and Lowe currently but I think their should be an ancestral connection as far back as grandparents to be even considered from now on
What? Because someone who spent their whole life in a country AND is a citizen isn’t a “proper” citizen. Disgrace.
I don't get why grandparents. If someone is quite literally born in Ireland, then somehow they shouldn't be able to represent Ireland?
If that's the case then half the western world would play for Ireland. Mate why stop there, we're from africa aren't we?
Most people are afraid to say the obvious truth: NZ, AU have helped themselves to Pacific Island talent for decades, and now the big Northern countries are doing the same.
How many of the "NZ" and "AU" players are eligible through a parent or a grandparent to play for Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, or Cook Islands?
How many of the 57 "New Zealanders" who play for other countries are actually New Zealanders, and not Islanders who have come up through the NZ rugby system?
The only Tier 1 team that represents one country and one country only is South Africa. I guess Argentina is also Tier 1 these days, but they'll do well to make the semis.
I don't have a problem with historically weaker teams getting a leg up by including someone with ethnic ancestry, e.g. Mack Hansen for Ireland, or Pacific Islanders who grew up in New Zealand and Australia. It's good for the game and kudos to someone who wants to represent the country of his indigenous ancestors.
What I do have a problem with is the big teams like AU, NZ, England, France using big $$$ and talent scouts to drain smaller, poorer countries of their rugby talent.
"But but but those countries have spent a lot of resources on developing Pacific Islanders, why shouldn't they get first dibs on them?"
Because it's not good for the game, and it is highlighted every World Cup. Imagine how exciting it would be if Fiji, Tonga, and Samoa were genuine threats to SA, NZ, and AU, instead of serving as a good warm-up for the one or two group games per pool that we actually take seriously.
"But but but Fiji ALMOST beat Wales!"
That's my point. With the talent that Fiji have, the headline should have been "Wales defeats mighty Fiji!" but instead people fall over themselves to cheer on Fiji the underdog, when it should never be the underdog in the first place.
The Pacific Islands are weaker for being neighbours of AU and NZ, and world rugby is robbed of genuine contests every year, and especially in the World Cup. The irony is that the serial offenders, AU and NZ, are losing their edge because they have less exposure to South African opposition and because the Northern countries are tapping into their Pacific Island supply of next generation's superstars.
So in a weird way, the game is both poorer but also sort of more equal, but only at the top.
yo shit analogy considering fiji just beat Australia.
whats ruining rugby is south africa and northern hemispheres boring ass rules not New Zealand exporting talent overseas via our very good talent production machine
Shoot!. That's super interesting - the whole thing is Cosmo to be honest and this really really really is a World Cup! Thanks Mark.
It’s going to get to a stage where it won’t matter where you’re born , what would be the point of a WC then?
Same as football club supporters. In a Glasgow pub a few years back I was amused by how proud the local lads were of Hendrik Laarson playing for Celtic. I didn't say anything though because the lads had celtic tattoos on their chests and the pub was called the Shark's mouth.
I do have a bit of an issue with what's called Foreign Born here. Henry Arundell was born in/on Dhekelia, which is a British army base on Cyprus. He was born to British/English parents. That doesn't make him Dhekelian or non-English.
By these standards those born overseas due to their parents living there (temporarily), but moving back later are classed as foreigners. That's not really how it works I would say. Foreigners would be those that previously held a different passport.
Foreign Born is literally foreign born. Is Cyprus outside of England? The answer is yes. Pretty simple. Also you seem to be oblivious to the important fact that mark paid more attention to foreign raised numbers for obvious reasons.
I agree 'home born' is a bit of a flawed metric in the sense that it is blind to situations like the one you described.
Uini Antonio was definitely a missed opportunity for NZ and Samoa.
And we, both French and La Rochelle fan, extremely happy for that.
Are extremely happy*
He was too fat and slow to play NPC or Super, so it didn't matter that he was a useful specialist prop at the time. It's a focus on the all-round, positionless rugby attitude in NZ that's led them to the point of having perilously few specialist forwards in key positions, most notably at lock and in the front row.
Will Skelton playing for NZ would've been fun to watch as he offers that physicality and presence on the field especially with his ball carries
Politics aside, England Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland are all united in one country (while obviously being their own countries too) so I'd say going from Scotland to England and vice versa is probably similar to going between north and south Island in New Zealand.
For sure.
great point
More on that. For some reason in the sevens competition they compete as Great Britain.
@@nmatienzo because only really cricket, soccer and rugby tolerate this seoerate country nonsense. The Olympics don't, athletics dont, etc.
"Politics aside, England Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland are all united in one country"
I hope you see the fundamental contradiction in that? :D
No trying to get at you, but have you polled a lot of Scots, Welsh or NI about that?
We definetly move around in the UK! Are there more Tongans and Samoans living in New Zealand and Australia than in the Islands?
Yeah man we have free movement between Australia and New Zealand and people move all the bloody time - UK must be 100 times more
Her fleshen! How’s things? We’re absolutely invaded by wasps atm! Cracking weather though!
@@TwoCentsRugbyWith Welsh people especially, it used to be the Irish, but since they got rich on EU money, it’s the Welsh, like me who move to England for opportunity, we are so closely linked which is part of the reason that the rivalry is so fierce.
Ireland didn't get rich on EU money. They got rich thanks to the EU single market, as did every country including Germany. But they generated that wealth thanks to prudent economic policies that attracted foreign national corporations like Apple and education policies that made Ireland have one of the highest university graduate populations in the world, that together helped Ireland turn from a largely agricultural economy to an advanced and highly educated economy. But none of it was from EU handouts. Any money the EU gave Ireland to bail out it's banks was paid back in record time with interest. Ireland got nothing handed to it for free. If the EU was handing free money to every country in the EU, Poland, Greece, and Romania would also be wealthy economies like Ireland. Successive Irish governments succeeded where the governments of other countries -including Wales that has a smaller economy than Ireland -failed and that was in turning the European single market to the country's advantage, but that was all down to Irish political and economic prudence, not gifts from the EU
@alunjprice sorry what?
You're pretty much right on how the connections work for the Home Nations; Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland/ROI and England. Obviously things are a bit shakier now, but people used to always be going between these countries in search of opportunities.The non-English diaspora in England has always been massive
in rugby there is not distinction between "Northern Ireland/ROI"
So you are wrong inside 20% of your quite short comment.
In addition.
If you do not play in ireland you do not qualify for the national team. Diaspora has nothing to do with it. With the notable exception of that stint sexton spent in france against his will. But that's another conversation entirely
@@DAGATHire Yep, these things you've said are not incorrect, just wanted to signal to TwoCents that the situation in 'The British Isles' is similar to his reckoning at 6:20
There's no such thing as the British Isles in rugby. Ireland is not part of Britain
@@DAGATHireDon’t think Sexton played against his will in france lol more for the cash
@@cian69 naa mate, that was a cash grab tho, but not by sexton, but rather by his sports agent at the time, basically blackmailing the IRFU with contract demands and an or else attitude. Even ronan o'gara who became good mates with sexton mentioned this fact in a documentary. Sexton just wants to be a rugby player, not a commodity and he got rightly caught up in a load of shite then. But hey, every day is a school day, hope that has been a lesson.
Big hypothetical, but I'd be legible to play for Spain based on my grandfather. It's something I'm quite proud of , to have that connection to that country, but I barely speak the language and have only spent maybe 2weeks in country in my whole life! Again, hypothetical but I'm not sure it would be 'right' for me to play for Spain
Yeah man hypothetically given that I spent 7 years of my life in China - if I had been playing rugby there I could have played for the Chinese team on residency... but yeah it'd be weird
@@TwoCentsRugbythat's really interesting. What did you do in China for 7 years?
To be considered Welsh born or English born could literally depend on which room you were born in, (OK, exaggerating, but not much) Many people who live in Wales are born in hospitals in England or the other way around. Same with where the registry is, in England or Wales, so it is difficult to be sure. Latterly not quite so chaotic as there is now a 'Local' government in Wales and funding decides who goes where to be born so easier to work out in future.
That's right. You're all just a part of the greater pasty white brigade.
Great vid as always man :)
Pilipinas national rugby union team have more foreign-born players of partial Filipino descent than homegrown players.
Best pronunciation of Lappies Labuschagne I’ve heard from a Kiwi. Well done Mark👏🏽
Ah cheers man!
Nice to see that the previously untapped rugby resource of Dhekelia is finally being recognised.
My geography is pretty decent but I had to Google that one
@@TwoCentsRugbywait its in cyprus? 😂😂😂 who is that?
@@fionnmoules7620Arundell was born there. It’s a UK military base on Cyprus
Really interesting, thanks. Tbh, I really don't give a damn where anyone was born, if the footy is good, that is the thing which reflects most on that particular country's system. Interesting that 57 NZ born playing for other teams, that makes 90 NZ born players at the cup, not counting replacements. That says something but who cares, like I say, as long as we see a great RWC.
Bloody nuce work as usual mate. Will do some research but im interested to know how many of the foreign originated players foe Japan actually have Citizenship.
I'd say none. You have to have japanese blood to even apply. There is generations of immigrants with no citizenship... Mostly of Brazilian extraction.
Even 50:50 folk, born in kaon struggle to obtain citizenship.
Would it be worth it to do a video listing the percentage of rugby players for each country and also compare with other sports for each nation?
Gee, and when I see a lot of French press being like "hurr durr we've got so many foreign players" and other Saffas in the comments on TH-cam saying we stole their players like Willemse... I shall henceforth quote your video as a reference to shut them up :D
What even is a national team if the players aren't from that country?
I would increase the residency category. 5 yrs is way to short. Makes it unfair for the homegrown lads who are not getting selected. Talented young rugby players can head overseas on professional contracts and by the time they 25 or 26 which is likely their prime they can potentially play and keep somebody else out the team. I dont believe that is right.
I would leave the residency because some people genuinely want to live in another country; take Tendai Beast Mtawarira, for example. But I would say that residency, even for a lesser length of time, needs to be completed before parental or grandparent eligibility kicks in. Had Sione Tuipulotu ever set foot in Scotland before being poached? Brad Shields ever set foot in England? Also, World Rugby need to step in and enforce a maximum number of non-citizen players allowed in any squad, whether they have completed their residency or not.
I would also say that if you qualify only on residency, then you can only continue to play for that country while you are actually a resident there or have gained citizenship. No more Duhan van der Merwe qualifying for Scotland and immediately leaving for England while still playing for Scotland.
@@Karma-qt4ji You bring up some great points.
Perhaps a good line in the sand for the ancestry cases should be Citizenship. Gain full legal citizenship and you can play. That doesn't alway happen as you step off the boat. I'm sure countries would fast track it but it would be a step in the right direction. If my memory serves me correctly Quad Cooper does not hold Australia citizenship. I am by no means questioning his eligibility but he has been unable to meet the necessary requirements to gain full citizenship due to his ongoing rugby commitments.
With regards to residency it will be very hard to make a one size fits all rule by adjudicating individual cases. And how do we decide which players want to represent a specific adopted country Vs players who want to play international rugby.
The rugby fraternity is excited about an extremely competitive landscape heading into this RWC with some of the so called Tier 2 nation's showing legitimate upset potential. So perhaps the globalised state of international rugby is feeding into that competitiveness and we should be more receptive to it. Which to be perfectly honest I think the average rugby fan is totally okay with.
These topics will always crop up every so often and sparks a good healthy debate about the state of our beloved sport.
I am so excited for this WC... Bring it on!
Did a bit of research for the RLWC last year, and found that majority were NRL players of Aus, NZ and island descents. Love how Tedesco was kangaroos captain in 22 but Italian captain in 17.
People don't realise how good australia is especially once you include islanders and kiwis raised there. I truly believe if they chose union instead of league they would even dominate south africa
Potential all blacks move to Australia to get paid more in nrl and not get injured
Immigrants from all over the world move countries for a better life and every now and then their son turns out to be a rugby all star
6:00 "Should you represent your old home or should you represent your new home..." IMO always you should represent your new home
SARS should charge export duty on the rugby players we are exporting.
Great topic!!
man these videos are always great
The french "highlanders" were all born in french territory, speak french, went to french school, played for France u20 etc... Most of them arrived in continental France around 13-15 years old, (Taofifenua born in France). They have no connection whatsoever with any other country. If they're not french what are they exactly? Nothing?
Great video! On the note about players/people moving between Eng, Sco, and Wales and Northern Ireland. I would say that it isn't like New Zealanders moving from NZ to Aus. Because the UK is really one country it is more like someone moving from Wellington to Auckland
They are countries and they have separate rugby teams though? Moving from NZ to Aus requires zero paperwork, no visas, its simply a plane ticket you are paying for. Auckland and Wellington are cities and they're not playing at the World Cup
On the UK situation, you're more or less right. There's also the border born, parents live on one side of the border, however, nearest maternity ward is on the other (Like the former soccer player 'Michael Owen' who's parent's were from North Wales, but he was born in the Countess of Chester Hospital, just over the border and raised in North Wales.)
Goes to show who is really the best rugby nation with soldiers born and raise in thier country. SA and Argentina top dogs ❤
Not sure thats true.
Then why is new zealand number 1 country at producing players for other countries? And the numbers even higher at club level. For its size nz is batting way above their average
Genuinely very interesting, good work.
The French team are a little more complicated as they have a few players who were born and raised on the other side of the planet and moved to France later in life to play rugby but they just happen to be born on an island in the Pacific which is a French territory.
This is good information. My Son is currently 3 and is showing some real potential! He does have an Australian father, a Japanese mother, a Scottish Grandfather, an Irish Grandmother, and an English Grandfather. What nation do you think he should represent at the 2039 world cup? 😂
Where's he growing up?
@@joebish6629 haha in Adelaide. I think keeping him away from Aussie Rules will be the biggest challenge 🤣
Fiji could also field home grown player if they want to for example
Ratuva(Fijian born) instead of Nasilasila(Australian born)
Nakarawa(Fijian born instead of Cirikidaveta(Newzealand Born)
Dolokoto(Fijian Born) instead of Togiatama(Newzealand born)
Botitu(Fijian Born) instead of Muntz(Newzealand born)
You are the first rugby non South African commentator who pronounces the surname Labuschagne correctly. Well done you😊
Because Two Cents is not ignorant like most presenters and makes an effort.
Twocent is a Rugby fan before he is a Kiwi fan. He is the best kind of fan. The dude put on an England shirt after England beat New Zealand in the 2019 Semi Final. 😭
@@Antibot2025 Wow I didn't know he'd been going so long. Hes got a lot better production these days.
You can also ask a Frenchman to give the pronounciation in a good way. the same for : Leroux, DuToit, De Villiers, Joubert, Malherbe, Du Preez, Fourie ... who have French ascent ( does it matter ?)
They could do with him commenting on cricket too 😉
Thank you Mark. Very informative.
Mack Hanson's mum is Irish not grandmother though his grandmother is probably also Irish.
McHansen.
so? he's a poach.The irish are the worst when it comes to accusing other countries,particularly NZ.But they're not shy in using their project player scheme to poach kiwi talent.
fucking hypocrites.
@@richardscanlan3419Nah, we definitely don't. The only ones I've ever heard criticise are SA, which is understandable because they only play their own. It's benefited us over the years. Even if your name is Scanlan we don't claim you.
Drivel - the irish are the biggest loudmouths when it comes to slagging off NZ.Any rugby forum will show that.
As for my ancestry,that's ok,I've no interest in being claimed by you scum@@icemanire5467
That was actually way fewer players from the big sides coming from other countries than I thought it would be! Kudos to teams like Namibia, who presumably could be tempted to import players but haven’t.
4 videos in aussie jersey?
Yeah man it was a father's day gift so I've been wearing it a lot, I'll change soon 😅
How well you noticed that, wha? 😂
@@TwoCentsRugbyit's very nice!
It is cleverly disguised in Springbok colours so that people think Mark likes good teams.
@@TwoCentsRugby great content btw! Can’t wait for this RWC!
So rather than NZ pinching players, (90% are homegrown), NZ is actually the biggest supplier by far of players to other countries. Interesting.
Not only international sides but club sides all over the rugby world.
Maybe if the opportunities and systems were better they might stay?
Yeah nothing new here
And coaches. This video shut up a lot of mouths.
@@aaronforde9608not really, like every country there’s only one national team, so the opportunity is the same, and it’s because the system is so good that so many New Zealand players are good enough to be selected for teams to represent other countries.
13:44 who’s the one Irish export?
Healy to Scotland mate
@@TwoCentsRugby ah yeah obvious now
The only issue i have with the grandparent rule is that it creates a weird situation with the kids of some players. For example say J. Prop qualifies for Ireland via a grandparent but his parents are English. J. Prop plays 80 times for Ireland. He has a son, K. Prop. K's parents are all english hes born in england and his grandparents are all english too. It's impossible, unless he commits to residency, for K to follow in his father's footsteps internationally. Which seems a bit trivial in my opinion but also makes sense.
Really interesting video
Thanks for the healthy topics to talk about in which we believe couid be the contributing factor to the success of any team. This is to find out the authenticity of the each and individual players in each team participating in the world cup...
One thing I would like to contribute in this forum is that no matter how we try to say it like this n like that... it is all about the authenticity of your blood will always prevail..
Example if you are a Samoan Blood n play in England..... you play for that Jercy, win or loose ... it doesn't matter... but if Samoa team win or loose it really affects them badly inside and outside....
One thing that we should understand our authenticity automatically connects to the place of originality.... in other words, people's blood spiritually connected to their place of originality. And this is not new... it's right from the beginning.
Another example Fiji..
Never mind any Fijian have been migrated to a new adopted country and that adopted new country provided him with everything he needs and groomed up to reach maximum potentials... deep inside him, his place of origins comes first than his adopted country ... and he always finds time to cheer for his country of his originality.....😮
Which country has the most players in the WC, across teams?
Rather than seeing it at /33 I'd be interested to see it out of the top /15 as this would me more telling (I"m guessing)
Citizenship. One word to describe who qualifies to represent a nation, Citizenship. And if a player is a dual citizen, the player chooses, by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
I'm desperate to know who the identity of one player at this World Cup born in Dhekelia, a totally random UK overseas territory most people don't even know exists. (It's a British army base on the island of Cyprus that remained British when Cyprus declared independence after WWII.)
Ah it was Henry Arundell from memory man, but the article has a full list!
Its really just opinion where you pick the line on the time to residency pathway. For me at least 7 years within that countries system, if your not born there, before you become eligible. (i.e. commitment of your career to the nation your rep)
e.g. If you move when you're 15 you can become eligible at 22.
Most players sign pro around 20 so you'd have one shot at picking your nation and be committing if you move as an adult.
I'd also get rid of the grand parents part and just have you can rep where your parents were born only.
Which city in China did you live in?
Wuhan mate 😅
Dhekelia is a good example of "because their parents were there at the time", it's a British military base on Cypress, so yeah.
Was Marcus smith not trained in Singapore? If not, what is the ages do you class as being trained from/to
Philippines
Wdym Philippines
@@ruairihannigan-5357 He trained in the Philippines not singapore. What else would it mean
He didn’t thou cos my cousin is from Singapore and had the same coach as Marcus smith
The question that should be asked is has importing players made Scotland stronger than were being as they’ve gained the most from imported players. The higher the ranking, the closer to home the players should be born.
I said it in another thread here.... by buying their players, both Scotland and Ireland have elevated themselves above the level of other mid-table teams, the place where Scotland and Ireland have historically sat. We will probably never again see an Argentina side pummelling Ireland as they did in 2015 and Ireland will probably never lose to Japan again, even if Japan improve to the level they were at in 2019. Neither will Scotland with their 5 new South Africans and one Tongan fall prey to the likes of Japan. Instead of growing their own teams, they have simply bought them, at least in part.
World Rugby needs to step in again and limit the number of foreign players in each squad, and not only for RWC's. And by foreign I mean recruited professional rugby players who do not have citizenship for the country they are representing. If the Vunipola's, Faletau's, Gregan's, Pockock's and Mehrtens's of this world want to represent the country they grew up in then they have every right to do so.
@@Karma-qt4jiIreland have 3 residency players, give over.
@@barryb90 Put another way, 20% of their starting lineup, because those three are almost always going to start in the 'big' games. Quoting a newspaper article at the time Augustin Pichot was pushing for the residency period to change, "In his eyes ‘project players’ are just a way of the larger tier one nations buying an advantage over the smaller unions, and that the idea money could have any impact on the international game is fundamentally wrong." And because of the delay to the residency change because of Covid, JGP and James Lowe were eligible for selection two years early. And Ireland made the most of that, pushing them into the side the minute the clock ran down.
Think Argentina still have a chance to smash Ireland like they did in 2015? Think Japan, even if they get to the level of their former glory, will ever beat Ireland again? Ireland have literally bought insurance that these things will not be repeated.
@@Karma-qt4jion current form even without the nz players Ireland can beat Argentina and Japan so this is a silly argument.
Also it was only two kiwis starting in the six nations. As bundee is usually a sub unless henshaw or ringrose is injured which is often the case.
Also it's a bit foolish say that as if ireland don't have world class players who perform more consistently either.
@@Teesroad form also comes from the overall performance of the team; more difficult to have form if you're losing every weekend or permanently on the back foot for example. As the number one ranked side going into the 2019 RWC one could argue that you did have some form, yet you lost to Japan. A year later you pushed JGP and Lowe into the side as quickly as possible before the residency window shifted but you had lost CJ Stander.
My issue is not that you have / had Kiwis or SAFFA's in the team, my issue is the way you actively recruit them under the protocols set out by your union. Club contracts offered to established professional players already playing in the highest domestic league. You claim them as your own, talking up how Irish they are and how integrated they are and then go "oh look, a squirrel" when they hang up their boots and piss off back home like CJ did.
Ireland *do* have world class players and they do perform well, but as long as you continue to take the piss with the eligibility laws the rest of us are not actually going to give you any credit for that. It's all legal and all, but unethical as fuck! Let's see if you get this analogy.... it's the same as Jimmy Carr saying that he did pay *some* tax....
Anybody know who the player born or from Canada playing in this world Cup ?
Ewan Ashman, the Scottish hooker. Born in Toronto, moved to England aged 4. Qualified through Scottish father.
Ewan Ashman - Scotland
Ease of travel around Europe is always difficult to describe if you haven’t experienced it.
You could live in one country, work in another, have your closest rugby club in a third, and thinking nothing of it!
Home grown and developed is what matters to me. It doesn´tmake sense that all teams are National, but their players are not pure nationals. Might as well create 20 franchises and play a World Cup of Franchises, whence it would make better sense to give credit to exporting nations.
France and Portugal are comparable to OZ-NZ - migrating for economic opportunities. The situation is comparable in football where many Portuguese players are French born.
Right that makes a lot of sense mate!
Holidaying in Northern Portugal I was astonished by all the French reg cars, until a local explained they were all home for annual holidays from their work places in southern France
Vunivalu and Tongan Thor did their schooling in NZ but moved to OZ after to play footy.
Another top-notch video Mark. Very interesting numbers. And yeah, how and where does one draw the line(s)? Understanding their reasons (it's 2023 after all), I just remain a bit peeved off by Saffers in foreign teams. 😡 Us Saffers somehow (traditionally) perceived that as being "treasonous". 🙈 Hence we just love it when great players such as Duan van der Merwe and Pierre Schoeman (both Scotland) get smashed by their Bok opponents! 😂 It's as if we "hate" them (even) more than their team mates! 😂 That's why we welcomed Jean Kleyn back into the "Saffer fold" with open arms. Home, where he belongs ... at last! 😂 Lol. Have a good one mate. Cheers from Safferland.
As a Scot, I have been lamenting the state of our graassroots game for years and it doesn't look to be improving. Doesn't help that Mark Dodson, head of the SRU, seems to see no issue with it.
To be honest NZ grassroots is not in a healthy state as it used to be. Some big schools no longer have a third or second XV sides due to lack of numbers.
The high school game is now geared towards high performance which means smaller schools can't compete, lose their good players to bigger schools (often with scholarships). So our player base at that level is shrinking, we'll see if it makes a big difference going forward.
I feel like it will reduce the number of late bloomers because instead of plugging away in a second string side until they find their form, they'll just quit
@@TwoCentsRugby hope not, that sounds vexing
Yep,the game is dying on its arse in NZ - contrary to the myth it's the only game in town@@TwoCentsRugby
I think you might want to relook at the French team, the islander players apart from uini come largely from French Polynesia, most notably Wallis and futuna
Yeah I remember I called one of the French Polynesian players foreign born back in 2018 - the backlash from French fans was intense 😅 But yeah I think for this Paul has included those places in with mainland France
I mean, those Islands are a full part of France, their youth rugby is funded by France, and what other team could they play for? @@TwoCentsRugby @d_handler
That makes them all homegrown and homeborn.
Hardly homegrown though are they. Let's be real here
How are they not homegrown? Born in France, learnt their rugby in france, and played all their club rugby in France@@Arrica101
What is more relevant is whether the player grew up and trained in the country vs established rugby players who join a country based on residency only
Interesting. I actually thought teams like Tonga & Samoa would have been right up around 100% for both born/trained...
They just have that strong a culture to be born somewhere else and still represent their parents country.
Or just not good enough to make nz or aus😂 mate even japan now😂
Nawaqanitawase, Valentini, Gleeson, Koroibete, Vunivalu, Kerevi, "Fijians" in the Wallabies squad
Nawaqatinawase and valetini are very aussie names 😂
@@johnliuaana6914 unless the name is an indigenous name all australian names aint aussie john
I reckon Samoa's numbers are so much lower due to the situation caused by their former chairman/president killing the game in the country, i reckon with him gone those numbers will go up.
I hope so man, there HAS to be talent there which is yet to be given an opportunity
What about Steyn in the Scottish team?
Scotland/Wales is tricky, if your Da' moves to England for work, you've not actually gone to a foreign country per se. No passport, same government etc. Sometimes the difference between US states is bigger.
Boet, how the hell are you not working for Sky NZ or something
Make sense for sa if you've played school boy rugby in SA you know it's a factory fof players and in the DNA of so many boys. Even the ones that were foriegn born in the past were
IMHO, 5 years residency is about right - I hated the 3 years.
As you highlight, the numbers only tell part of the story - given how people naturally move between some countries (e.g. uk & ie, italians in part of south france, etc.).
As long as the player had nit represented his country of origin in the past I don’t really care about the amount of years of residency
Most of these cases are no real issue but the amount of top Pacific islanders poached by NZ and Australia really needs to be addressed. If rugby union is to become a truly global sport then we need greater competition and second tier nations need to be assisted.
Parents choose to move there and players choose to stay. Did you watch the video?
Because if you watched the video you'd have seen that 57 (highest btw) nz born players are playing for other countries teams and Australia 2nd most exported players at 17
@@Bigdoggobrien That's not the point. Nations like Japan take the also rans but NZ and Australia pick off the top talent. Similar situation to English footballers playing for Ireland. If they are good enough they play for England.
@@Bigdoggobrien And I am talking about the growth of the game and expanding competition rather than the ethics.
You do know that Tonga and Samoa have 30 NZ born players between their teams? Are you not concerned about that? There are more pacific islanders in New Zealand than the entire Oceania combined. And no Rugby is not a global sport, never has been and will be a very long time untill it is. Basketball is a global sport. Also there is no top talent in the islands, there are only athlete's. You cant become a top player playing in an enclosed nation like a island nation. Thats just reality. Players leave the islands to get better.
In 20 years time you are gonna have Samoan Tongan players who grew up in Tongan and Samoan up brining but no parents and grandparents born in the islands. This is going to really muddy waters because as you know us islanders always say we are Tongan Samoan with the nz born or aussie born added to it
100% South Africans 🔥🇿🇦
Born but not actually South African. Most heritage comes from Europe. 😆😊
Plus one Irish guy…😂
@@Antibot2025are you a European South African?
If not. Please do not speak for us.
If you are, get some pride in that bones.
I consider myself an African.
It is African soil that makes up my body.
It is the African spirit that influences my perception in life.
My DNA might be from Europe. That's just the building plan, but the building blocks are all African.
SOUTH AFRICAN
@@Antibot2025everyone has heritage in other countries, that doesnt make them less South African
@@Antibot2025by that logic, you could say the same for literally every country with a colonial past.
Are the rules different for any nation besides self impositions? No, cool, on we go. Can't wait
Very interesting topic. Nice to know, but not really an issue in the scheme of things.
What about country with the most reps in other countries
Some say in coments how they are not bodered by nacionalities but is a big issue and can take big consecuences if not well managed by the national teams, if not go ask Spain on how they lost their place in the world cup due a "misunderstood" time lapse of a nationalized SA player .Romania was well and inteligently informed and placed a formal complain that lend to Spain been turn down and Romania to enter in the world cup .So is no small matter all national teams are with their eyes in this matter when comes the time .
Tbf, there are towns along the England/Wales border like mine, where half the people think they are English the other half think they are Welsh.
What about Vakh Abdaladze?
Ireland get slated for foreign born players, but only aki, lowe and Gibson park qualify through residency, Murray and henshaw often start ahead of aki and Gibson park so for people to say we would be average without foreign born players is ridiculous. If they were so good they’d play for their own nations. The majority of our top players are Irish through and through
Your *deluded* bud *Gibson Park* is all over Murray, that's why he was rested in warm up game v Samoa.
*Aki* 50/50 but still plays and
what about *James Lowe?* He seems to be a *regular starter* and don't forget names of the past like *Jared Payne* and *Issac Boss* oh and who can forget the man *who started it all* for Ireland *NZL born* coach *Joe Schmidt* have I missed any names?
@@MeanAzz_13 Are you a wee bit deluded or just cranky that your nation is not No. 1 in the world? (And lost against France) Ireland never won anything (sarcasm), before Schmidt (what a typical New Zealand name, what might his ancestry be?) came around, sure... Lowe, yeah, could be replaced with Stockdale... Payne made a whopping 20 test matches and at Ulster, Luke Marshall or Trimble played his position with same quality and he just became a regular when Olding had an incident that made him be suspended... Isaac Boss, oh wait, where did his family come from... Glenarm at the County Antrim coast?
Ya you missed names and the point. The point being, the vast majority of Irelands players are born in Ireland and brought through the Irish system.
@aidantully6979 4 out if 15 starters equals more than 1/5th
4 players Hansen as well