A pervasive problem with me - my mixes are always muddy! There's always too much 200-400 Hz cause I'm scared to make anything sound "unnatural", but when you put it all together, that frequency range really adds up quickly
Seems like it would work best on something like a kick where the fundamental isn't constantly moving around. Also, Fab Filter Pro-Q3 has a function that displays a little keyboard below the frequency analyzer. It allows you to match frequencies to notes. So you could do this even more precisely by using something like that. If you know the song is in B minor, you might boost B2 but cut B3, for example.
Absolutely a cool trick! i use it especially in the live environment to sped up soundchecks! On Toms i always reached for the third harmonic rather than the second, to remove boxiness. but yes, the proportions between harmonics is key
Makes sense, it looked like the Pultec was either pulling down the 3rd or the 4th harmonic, rather than the second. But, I guess it's when you are doing this across bassdrum, bass, snare, 2-3 toms and rhythm guitar that you'd be making a bit more space in the mix for everything to fit together better.
This is also a good practice because it allows you to enhance where you want without increasing your overall level (as much). Sometimes you can even cut more where you need to and increase some headroom while getting a more pleasing sound for your mix.
Very cool! It also sounds interesting for some sound design. If volume differences of each tone in a harmonic series shape the timbre of a sound, applying this boost-and-cut curve in sequential harmonics across the spectrum may be interesting. With varying intensities and even modulation... Great channel, btw
Don’t usually comment on TH-cam but this is a great trick! I stumbled upon the Pultec EQ trick recently which seems to essentially be the same thing. Nice to see some justification for why it works. Love your work!
8:20 - on laptop speakers, that floor tom started sounding marvelous when you dimed the second harmonic... Maybe I shouldn't be surprised that higher frequency information was carried better on smaller speakers, or maybe I should listen to videos about mixing with good headphones instead, but it still sounded amazing. That was a big, fat, wide-open floor tom.
Interesting concept and I will definitely try it. I understand the theory and this probably works well on instruments like to kick drum andThe toms. However, on musical instrument, such as the guitar or keyboards, musicians rarely stay on the fundamental.
Antares vocal EQ has a feature that lets you select a point on the frequency chart and then switch between the different harmonic locations based on that point you placed. And Even better, it also has tracking that lets you track the fundamental frequency if it’s moving around like it might be with a bass guitar or anything that isn’t static like a kick.
200-300 cycles is generally where the mud lives so it's not even really necessary to find the fundamental and do the math, just poke around and check out what a cut around those frequencies does for you. If you find it starts to sound too thin cutting around those points then maybe you don't need to (or just need less of a cut) as in proper amounts that range can provide some "warmth" and cutting too much can sometimes be an issue. I find kickdrum tends to often need eq cut more towards the 300hz range.
I almost forgot to mention that you pointing out "THE" Pultec trick of boosting and cutting the lows resulting in the same sort of effect as boosting the fundamental and cutting the second harmonic is a great point to have made !!!!
If your mixes ever sound thin, this is why. 200-300 isn't usually mud, it's the thickness of impact, and on bass, it's much of the character. Mids are where the excitement is, you're gonna end up dulling things and making them flat by cutting this area too much, especially on drums and guitar.
It can be helpful to cut a kick much lower than that though. In fact, cutting a kick right after the region you boosted can sound great. That's the whole idea behind the Pultec trick. It makes room for the bass guitar. Also, it tightens up your boost. I personally boost the kick around 50 or 60 and do a cut somewhere between 80 and 100. Wherever I do the cut is where I boost the bass. Everything gets its only little frequency pockets (or generally multiple frequency pockets).
@@rome8180 see, again, I feel like this is TH-cam mixing 101... you DONT have to cut the kick where you boost the bass, and boosting the bass in the 150-400 range is gonna give you waaaay more color and coherence than just doing the standard 80. You really only need to boost down there if you're not hearing any subs come through. I agree that doing a cut of the kick somewhere between 80-200 can be helpful, but unless you don't like how it's sounding, you can leave it alone and just give the little boost between 45-60--again, only if the kick is sounding weak. That's the thing about TH-cam... I'm not speaking on this video, but I feel like people take advice like you HAVE to do it to have a good mix. You don't. Likelihood is that if the tracks you are handed are mostly decent, less is gonna be way more. Try doing a mix with a limit of 3 plugins per track, and keep your eqs to 5 bands max. It's gonna be hard at first, but I think you'll find your mix will be significantly more open, dynamic, and evocative. Automation is something that isn't talked about nearly as much as it should be, and it's literally what makes a good mix good. I watch these videos to get little ideas or to see how others go about things, not to find golden rules that will "change the way" that I mix. I hope others do the same
Its not the fundamental , it’s the loudest frequency , that doesn’t mean it’s the frequency you want. You do not want to have a floor Tom at the same frequency as the kick drum .
I like him a lot and I realize that he's doing it to demonstrate a point, but NEVER solo while EQ'ing unless you're making a YT video to demonstrate something in particular.
really cool! plus the music was good which for YT is super rare. would be neat to try the boost/cut harmonics carried further up in freq to see how it say pulls out definition more in bass and kick etc
Best for Bass!! Although I find that doing some pre-SurfEQ cleaning with another EQ helps with tracking A LOT. Optimising the signal for SurfEQ to "surf" properly😅😂
Good alternatives for SurfEQ, for those wondering, are "fundamental following" EQs like Antares vocal EQ and iZotope Nectar EQ module (Neutron's EQ module might also have this option, I'm not sure). There's also this amazing trick you can do with Soothe: Create a copy of your track, transpose the pitch an octave up, and use that track as the sidechain signal for your main track!!! Test it and let me know what you think!! This gets the best of both pitch-following and dynamic EQ together!!
lol yeah but there will always be some harmonic content. saturation adds odd or even harmonics to affect the overall timbre plus you’re not going to remove a harmonic all the way usually just decrease
There's no one frequency where "the guitars are at". That's where the fundamental low frequency for *his* guitars are. Chances are 270Hz is just mud on guitars, but there's never going to be a set frequency for every guitar in every instance. The point of this isn't "low end fundamental is definitively 120Hz every time and if you disagree your wrong", it's to use observation to see and hear where it is and use that information to find the second harmonic to help with mud removal.
Is it common that the harmonic you want to cut a little is around 200 Hz? The tip that floats around all over the internet is to reduce mudiness by cutting around 200.
Makes sense considering most fundamentals are in the 60 to 120 hz range. Some people, like Warren Huart, do it a little differently. Warren, for example, always cuts around 350 on drum stuff. I guess to him that’s the muddiest area of the drums. It is a nice trick for opening up space for all the mid range instruments to live. All in all, I think starting at the octave and fishing around is probably the best practice. So if your fundamental is at 100 you can start looking for the muddiest frequencies starting around 200 ultimately landing on something in the vicinity.
Where there is truth the that in some genres, your u have to use your ears... for example it the instrument was already lacking in that area, but you had a "routine". That is bad. Each song is different, and the best advice is "know your gear, use your ear", and practice the on alll kinds of materials. No one path is right and the internet is polluted with bad ideas, and there are many examples of things one hears about doing or not, and yet, bands get huge doing "the wrong thing" all the time. Many many examples. Plow through!
@@cbrooks0905 Warren does it because the muddiest part generally is the 200-500 Hz area. 350 Hz is at the perfect midpoint of that range. So a broad q cut at 350 gets rid of maximum mud.
If you look at frequency masking which is well studied, then 200 is the area that can block the full spectrum of other frequencies. Charts exist to this effect made from scientific experiment that suggest so. Frequencies don't block much below and mostly above, but its at a sweet spot high enough where its masking can extend to thee top frequencies. Off course some thing do rounded thin without it and it could be the bass area of guitar tone so its context dependent
in a harmonic instrument like a bass, the fundamental would be a moving target right? someone could make a fundamental-tracking plugin that then applies this deluxe pultec trick in real time to the instrument. is this the right thinking? if this is good i'll have 10% thanks ahahah
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"Nobody likes a kick drum to actually sound like a kick drum." Laughed out loud at this truth! Great video.
A pervasive problem with me - my mixes are always muddy! There's always too much 200-400 Hz cause I'm scared to make anything sound "unnatural", but when you put it all together, that frequency range really adds up quickly
If the tracks your equing sound unnatural only in solo, then it's fine as long as the mix feels balanced
Seems like it would work best on something like a kick where the fundamental isn't constantly moving around. Also, Fab Filter Pro-Q3 has a function that displays a little keyboard below the frequency analyzer. It allows you to match frequencies to notes. So you could do this even more precisely by using something like that. If you know the song is in B minor, you might boost B2 but cut B3, for example.
That works exceptionally well with finely tuned instruments like keys, guitars, etc.
Absolutely a cool trick! i use it especially in the live environment to sped up soundchecks! On Toms i always reached for the third harmonic rather than the second, to remove boxiness.
but yes, the proportions between harmonics is key
Makes sense, it looked like the Pultec was either pulling down the 3rd or the 4th harmonic, rather than the second. But, I guess it's when you are doing this across bassdrum, bass, snare, 2-3 toms and rhythm guitar that you'd be making a bit more space in the mix for everything to fit together better.
This is also a good practice because it allows you to enhance where you want without increasing your overall level (as much). Sometimes you can even cut more where you need to and increase some headroom while getting a more pleasing sound for your mix.
Very cool! It also sounds interesting for some sound design. If volume differences of each tone in a harmonic series shape the timbre of a sound, applying this boost-and-cut curve in sequential harmonics across the spectrum may be interesting. With varying intensities and even modulation... Great channel, btw
Don’t usually comment on TH-cam but this is a great trick! I stumbled upon the Pultec EQ trick recently which seems to essentially be the same thing. Nice to see some justification for why it works. Love your work!
8:20 - on laptop speakers, that floor tom started sounding marvelous when you dimed the second harmonic... Maybe I shouldn't be surprised that higher frequency information was carried better on smaller speakers, or maybe I should listen to videos about mixing with good headphones instead, but it still sounded amazing. That was a big, fat, wide-open floor tom.
Interesting concept and I will definitely try it. I understand the theory and this probably works well on instruments like to kick drum andThe toms. However, on musical instrument, such as the guitar or keyboards, musicians rarely stay on the fundamental.
So simple but it certainly cleans it up and clarifies....
I love this, thanks for explaining. I learned a bit about this at university but had forgotten about it
6:02 "Nobody really likes kick drum to actually sound like a kick drum..." :D
Antares vocal EQ has a feature that lets you select a point on the frequency chart and then switch between the different harmonic locations based on that point you placed. And Even better, it also has tracking that lets you track the fundamental frequency if it’s moving around like it might be with a bass guitar or anything that isn’t static like a kick.
I like the way it subdues the "whoooliness". Cool! Thanks!
great trick. i use it a lot. if your fundamental is at 60, you also have harmonics at 240 and 480. i tend to go to those more often.
200-300 cycles is generally where the mud lives so it's not even really necessary to find the fundamental and do the math, just poke around and check out what a cut around those frequencies does for you.
If you find it starts to sound too thin cutting around those points then maybe you don't need to (or just need less of a cut) as in proper amounts that range can provide some "warmth" and cutting too much can sometimes be an issue. I find kickdrum tends to often need eq cut more towards the 300hz range.
I almost forgot to mention that you pointing out "THE" Pultec trick of boosting and cutting the lows resulting in the same sort of effect as boosting the fundamental and cutting the second harmonic is a great point to have made !!!!
If your mixes ever sound thin, this is why. 200-300 isn't usually mud, it's the thickness of impact, and on bass, it's much of the character. Mids are where the excitement is, you're gonna end up dulling things and making them flat by cutting this area too much, especially on drums and guitar.
It can be helpful to cut a kick much lower than that though. In fact, cutting a kick right after the region you boosted can sound great. That's the whole idea behind the Pultec trick. It makes room for the bass guitar. Also, it tightens up your boost.
I personally boost the kick around 50 or 60 and do a cut somewhere between 80 and 100. Wherever I do the cut is where I boost the bass. Everything gets its only little frequency pockets (or generally multiple frequency pockets).
@@rome8180 see, again, I feel like this is TH-cam mixing 101... you DONT have to cut the kick where you boost the bass, and boosting the bass in the 150-400 range is gonna give you waaaay more color and coherence than just doing the standard 80. You really only need to boost down there if you're not hearing any subs come through.
I agree that doing a cut of the kick somewhere between 80-200 can be helpful, but unless you don't like how it's sounding, you can leave it alone and just give the little boost between 45-60--again, only if the kick is sounding weak.
That's the thing about TH-cam... I'm not speaking on this video, but I feel like people take advice like you HAVE to do it to have a good mix. You don't. Likelihood is that if the tracks you are handed are mostly decent, less is gonna be way more. Try doing a mix with a limit of 3 plugins per track, and keep your eqs to 5 bands max. It's gonna be hard at first, but I think you'll find your mix will be significantly more open, dynamic, and evocative. Automation is something that isn't talked about nearly as much as it should be, and it's literally what makes a good mix good.
I watch these videos to get little ideas or to see how others go about things, not to find golden rules that will "change the way" that I mix. I hope others do the same
Its not the fundamental , it’s the loudest frequency , that doesn’t mean it’s the frequency you want. You do not want to have a floor Tom at the same frequency as the kick drum .
Awesome to see you again! This is the 1st vid by you I have seen in over a year. And a great one at that. Cheers.
I like him a lot and I realize that he's doing it to demonstrate a point, but NEVER solo while EQ'ing unless you're making a YT video to demonstrate something in particular.
really cool! plus the music was good which for YT is super rare. would be neat to try the boost/cut harmonics carried further up in freq to see how it say pulls out definition more in bass and kick etc
Great
Thank you
Reason I use Surf EQ.
Best for Bass!! Although I find that doing some pre-SurfEQ cleaning with another EQ helps with tracking A LOT. Optimising the signal for SurfEQ to "surf" properly😅😂
Good alternatives for SurfEQ, for those wondering, are "fundamental following" EQs like Antares vocal EQ and iZotope Nectar EQ module (Neutron's EQ module might also have this option, I'm not sure).
There's also this amazing trick you can do with Soothe: Create a copy of your track, transpose the pitch an octave up, and use that track as the sidechain signal for your main track!!! Test it and let me know what you think!! This gets the best of both pitch-following and dynamic EQ together!!
Good info to have in your bag of tricks. Thanks!
It's funny, I pretty much do this every time I eq but I didn't know that THIS is what I was really doing. Just always sounds good lol
every day it appears a new saturation plugin to enhance harmonics and now you are trying to cut them? I´m dyving nuts
lol yeah but there will always be some harmonic content. saturation adds odd or even harmonics to affect the overall timbre plus you’re not going to remove a harmonic all the way usually just decrease
You are great.
Huge!!!-Thank you.
Fantastic
Brilliant!
Dan Worrall has sort of expanded on this idea in his video series about parallel filters.
Damn son, thought the guitars were at 270😢
At least got the kick at 80 right
There's no one frequency where "the guitars are at". That's where the fundamental low frequency for *his* guitars are. Chances are 270Hz is just mud on guitars, but there's never going to be a set frequency for every guitar in every instance. The point of this isn't "low end fundamental is definitively 120Hz every time and if you disagree your wrong", it's to use observation to see and hear where it is and use that information to find the second harmonic to help with mud removal.
Is it common that the harmonic you want to cut a little is around 200 Hz? The tip that floats around all over the internet is to reduce mudiness by cutting around 200.
Makes sense considering most fundamentals are in the 60 to 120 hz range. Some people, like Warren Huart, do it a little differently. Warren, for example, always cuts around 350 on drum stuff. I guess to him that’s the muddiest area of the drums. It is a nice trick for opening up space for all the mid range instruments to live. All in all, I think starting at the octave and fishing around is probably the best practice. So if your fundamental is at 100 you can start looking for the muddiest frequencies starting around 200 ultimately landing on something in the vicinity.
Where there is truth the that in some genres, your u have to use your ears... for example it the instrument was already lacking in that area, but you had a "routine". That is bad. Each song is different, and the best advice is "know your gear, use your ear", and practice the on alll kinds of materials. No one path is right and the internet is polluted with bad ideas, and there are many examples of things one hears about doing or not, and yet, bands get huge doing "the wrong thing" all the time. Many many examples. Plow through!
@@morbidmanmusicyes. like look at the notes being played and convert them to freq
@@cbrooks0905 Warren does it because the muddiest part generally is the 200-500 Hz area. 350 Hz is at the perfect midpoint of that range. So a broad q cut at 350 gets rid of maximum mud.
If you look at frequency masking which is well studied, then 200 is the area that can block the full spectrum of other frequencies. Charts exist to this effect made from scientific experiment that suggest so. Frequencies don't block much below and mostly above, but its at a sweet spot high enough where its masking can extend to thee top frequencies. Off course some thing do rounded thin without it and it could be the bass area of guitar tone so its context dependent
in a harmonic instrument like a bass, the fundamental would be a moving target right? someone could make a fundamental-tracking plugin that then applies this deluxe pultec trick in real time to the instrument. is this the right thinking? if this is good i'll have 10% thanks ahahah
ok that's a plugin already called surf eq haha
hmm yah this seem accurate - i mean each note is a freq moving around yah
@@m.o.n.d.e.g.r.e.e.noh cool that seems like a great concept
Interesting
It’s an old eq trick!
Excelente concepto @creativesoundlab 🙌