The Beyerdynamic DT 880 (600 Ohms) Does Not Need The Power You Were Told
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2020
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Very interesting topic. After some (a lot) of reading, it seems that we can think of the amp as a voltage source with a resistor (amp's internal resistance) connected in series with the headphone. You turn the volume knob to increase output voltage and thus you get a louder volume out of the headphone.
The ratio between the series resistor and the headphone's coil resistance determines how much of the voltage gets applied over the resistor (turns to heat) and the headphone (turns to sound, kinda). Now, the impedance of dynamic headphones changes with frequency. For HD600 at 1kHz it's 300Ω, so 1V output with 1Ω output impedance get's applied as 0.03V over the resistor and 9.97V over the headphone. At 100Hz the headphone is 600Ω and the numbers are 0.02V and 9.98V. So voltage over the headphone changes just 0.01V across the whole frequency band. But, if the amp's internal resistance was 100Ω, voltage over the headphone would be 7.5V @ 1kHz vs. 8.6V @ 100hz, so the amp now put out 1.1V more for the bass region. In general, as the amp's output impedance grows from zero towards the headphone's nominal impedance, then changes in the headphone's impedance have more effect on that voltage division, and it starts to impose the 'phone's impedance curve as an EQ which you then hear. So an OTL tube amp would also add more bass to an HD600 via this mechanism.
Also this would explain why cables with different resistance can have an audible sound difference with loud speakers where the resistances are smaller than with headphones.
And since its a series resistor, you should be able to test this by taking a 0Ω amp and adding a 100Ω resistor in series with the headphone. In fact, the headphone output of the Emotiva A-100 is implemented in this way. They take the speaker outputs and put a 200Ω resistor in series. They say that it's tribute to vintage implementations and that many people prefer it that way. If the headphone would be 200Ω also, then it'd end up seeing just halv of the output voltage, and it's impedance curve would be applied as an EQ as explained above. Also if you do the math, it turns out that a high-output-impedance puts about the same amount of power to a wide range of headphone impedances (e.g. about 100mW for 16 - 600Ω headphones), whereas a low-output-impedance amp put a lot more power to low-impedance cans and then it drops down to that same 100mW at 600Ω, for example. The jumpers on the Emotiva bypass this resistor and the output impedance becomes close to zero [source: Keith-something who seems to represent Emotiva on a forum, and the A-100 manual for some parts]. I have not heard this amp with the DT 880 so I don't know if its better or worse than something else, but with the jumpers in place its about 0Ω. Someone mentioned voltage rails, and the A-100 has 24V rails IIRC, but if raising the voltage means turning the volume up, then we'd only be using a small portion of that max voltage. If a transient would require more than max voltage in a smaller amp, then it would cut it at max, ie. it would distort and not e.g make the bass more sluggish.
Now, I did fid some discussion about improving the dynamic behavior of under-damped 'phones by increasing the output impedance, though it seems that was mostly for much lower-impedance 'phones than 600Ω. But I dunno, maybe it could also get overdamped at a really high ratio of 'phone vs output impedance, so it'd be slower than critically damped. But now I'm purely guessing. There was a mention that one could also add a capacitor there and then tune the EQ effect with the resistor and then somehow the dynamic response with the capasitor. There's also talk that distorsion increases as output impedance goes up, but one guy was speculating if its actually just because of how it's measured and if its really affecting the audio. Some other guy was saying that damping factor doesn't have any discernible effect on headphone sounds as the driver masses are so low and the damping effects from air is great - speakers would be much more suspectible to damping factor limits.
So, complex. What I think of this is that maybe if you have a 100Ω BeyerDynamic amp, then probably it's designed to drive headphones with impedances from 300Ω and up. I don't know what you'd then do, but it seems likely that you can use that limitation to optimize something in the amp so that it works really well for those cans, but maybe a 0Ω could work even better for low-impedance cans. And mobile devices and bluetooth amps don't have a lot of voltage, so low impedances are favourable (max power output also).
So, interesting test would be either adding that series resistor or trying to add e.g. with the 'phones impedance curve shape to a 0Ω amp to see how much closer does it get to that 100Ω amp in sound. Maybe with those switchable-Z amps. And the capacitor, though I dunno nothing 'bout it.
I'll be following your videos for more!
Sources:
www.innerfidelity.com/content/musings-headphone-amplifier-output-impedance
www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/does-the-amplifier-voltage-swing-limits-headphone-dynamics.9483/
nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html
Holy cow, you encapsulated this issue better than I ever could. Thanks! Any idea where I can find a series resistor for cheap to test on one of my amps? As for a switchable -Z amp, I've got my eye on 2. They're pretty expensive, unfortunately.
@@NoThemeReviews Ha, thanks! I so just had to unload all that from my mind, glad you found it helpful.
I suppose you could just get 2-3 different resistors and 3.5mm jacks to make short resistive extension chords and then swap between them. Seems like you might be able to use a potentiometer (2 poles connected): www.resistorguide.com/variable-resistor/
@@NoThemeReviews To be honest, why I found this so interesting is that I recently temporarily agreed to give up my speakers for a sound bar in this new smaller apartment and thought I'd buy some great headphones instead. The Emotiva + Argons or DT880/600 seemed like it could be the most-fun combo - I thought the 45w power makes absolutely no sense but it wasn't that expensive so I could just try it anyway and maybe use the A-100 for speakers later. But while waiting for the packages it just started to make less and less sense, so I went ahead and got a Fiio K5 Pro + Sundaras instead. So... now I've actually got 2 unopened packages (A-100 and DT880/600) that I'd love to try but don't really dare to open because I want to be 100% sure I can return them (to Germany). The biggest issue with the A-100, for me, is that the box is just so freaking deep and it's an industrial design so I just don't have space for it.
I saw you had the Sundaras as well, any quick impressions between those and the DT880/600s? The latter amped with the Beyer A20 or something like that. I knew the Sundaras are not going to have that much bass, so I'm running a +2db shelf EQ from 80Hz down + some minor adjustments. I know I'll need something like miniDSP NanoDigi or the Sonix Exciter you reviewed to keep this up with the TV or Xbox, but that's still a lot less money than an LCD-X or similar with more bass.
Great voice in this conversation!
Thanks for the write-up.
Great set of information, I followed it as much as a lay person could. Hopefully this information may assist. The DT 880 600ohm sound excellent on the Hugo 2 which is an odd creature but has a 0.025Ω output impedance.
I feel like you could've just called out Zeos and he wouldn't have cared...
he did, just watch the closing remarks
Z doesn't care. He is irreverent to anything other reviewers say.
Its @ 25:50
The Z mans word is gospel though. If he says you need a nuclear reactor then get ready for the fallout.
While I admire your enthusiasm for the hobby and your somewhat scientific approach to determining what causes some differences between the amps vis a vis the 600 ohm DT880's (I've had my pair for years and got me into building my own headphone amps and then getting a plethora of headphones to test my amps), you are missing a key point on amplifier design. I have been an EE for 40 years and a geek all my life and have been messing with audio since the 60's. A little history might clear things up. In the stone age of headphones, they were all 600 ohms or thereabouts for one reason. Early amps of course used tubes and tubes are voltage devices, whereas transistors are current devices. So when you are driving a relatively delicate coil that is found in a headphone that can't dissipate much power, and you hit it with high voltage with a low impedance coil like you have in most of today's headphones, you get a lot of current, according to Ohm's law. All that current will make short work of the coil very quickly. That is why 600 Ohms was chosen, to keep the high voltage from destroying the voice coils.
You have only a part of the answer when you talk about power. You also have to factor in what the voltage swing is. Power is a relationship between voltage, current, and impedance. If you want to make a high impedance headphone 'sing' you need a substantial voltage across the voice coil. Most modern amps are current devices with relatively low voltage outputs, which work nicely with low impedance headphones. While a low output impedance of less than an Ohm is easily achievable with a transistor amp, it was not so with tube amps and is the reason why tube amps usually have problems with a good damping factor with low impedance headphones and the bass will sound 'flabby' because it is severely under-damped. My guess is the amps that sounded 'good' with the DT880's have higher output voltages than the ones that don't, and the reason the DT880's do well on the Emotiva, because it is a speaker amp is running much higher voltage rails. Your amp comparisons really are almost worthless w/o an ABX switch box. You may be able to tell a difference in bass levels with your technique, but there is little if any difference in higher frequencies that you can detect. BTW, in my opinion the Schitt and Audio GD amps might look nice, but their electrical designs are dubious if not downright ridiculous. There are much better designs for far less money and you seem to have quite a few of them. Price is a poor performance indicator when it comes to amps. Keep reading NWAVGuy's stuff. He explains it much better than I can and is spot on. ASR is an excellent resource for anything recent.
Thanks for the feedback.
great input. what are some amps you consider well designed?
Yeah! What he said!
which amps are better designs for less money in your opinion?
You had me until you said ASR is a good resource lmao
If I recall that “other reviewer” said to get the 880s to sound the best you need a large amount of power. I understood what he was getting at. He didn’t say you can’t drive them with less power. They just didn’t sound as good.
Can Topping A90 get dt880 to sound the best it can?
Rashique Bin Nasir you can drive these with the smsl sp 200 easily
@@barood7588 I tried it. Sound wasn't very good. claustrophobic.
EXACTLY ......and then he proceeds to say how shitty it sounds on all those mid tier amps lol......like ok so u basically agree with z
@@rashiquebinnasir9528 i have heard that it does not, but i can answer that in a few days. i own the a90, and the 880 will be here tomorrow to test it
I like your reviews but the "i'm not like other youtubers' shtick is kind of exhausting. I think your reviews are more helpful than you realize and, you shouldn't worry so much about zeos or, whoever, really. Thanks for the heads up on these, anyway! If I'm ever interested in a v-shape, man, they sound fun. And you're very nice to justify your preference of the special edition but, goddamn, they look so much better.
Lol. I need to take advice like yours. I'm trying to tone it down. It was worse before. More work ahead, I know. As for the special edition, god they look so much better! I've looked online for a reason why the standard version has those horns, and I haven't found an answer. It's pretty silly.
@@NoThemeReviews Thanks for considering my opinion. I really think you have a fantastic ear and I genuinely appreciate seeing someone like yourself who really does care about how their content may influence others. And, yeah, what is up with those horns? I can't even tell when they're for. Are they clips?
The all black looks AWSUM! I'd get it but I don't have any amps with a ridiculously high output impedance.
@@PipkinXIV The clips are for holding your post it notes which doubles as a cat ear holder. I have the DT 990 600 ohm and those things are sharp enough to peel the top layer off a finger nail.
@@Assimilator702 You can dull the sharp edges with sandpaper. Either 600 grit, 250, 80 or 32 grit. Depending on which impedance you have. Don't mix them up
Dayum, that's some good work you've done. Kudos for that.
What you’re saying makes far more sense (damping factor, output impedance) than what Zeos advocated for this, which I found funny but you’re right it can be dangerous - but just to be clear, he wasn’t stacking amps so much as using a feature of the Geshelli Labs Enog2 Pro DAC, which has three “volume levels” that are selectable via the button on the front, but this is designed to reduce the volume from normal output for amplifier matching:
“The ENOG2 Pro DAC has a dual function switched located in the front of the device. If you hold down for 3 seconds it will change the volume level. There are three volume levels to choose from. Each level will significantly reduce the output volume for increased compatibility with different amplifiers or connected peripherals.”
That is the feature he’s using. I have this DAC connected to my Cavali Liquid Carbon X and I’m using the default normal output, not one of the two lower volume output settings. Presumably he’s also using the normal volume output setting and not one of the reduced output levels.
Ah. Thanks for the clarification
If "stacking amps" is what I'm thinking it is, most likely the amplified output of the first would clip the input stage of the second one.
I have a vintage pair of DT-880 600ohm from the eighties. With most amps they do sound quite thin and not fun at all, but I used to have an Audio GD Phoenix which I consider the perfect match for the headphones. Everyone who came to my home and listened to that combo were literally blown away how great a 30€ used old pair of headphones could sound. It's not about the specs or measured performance but finding the best working combinations.
Hi, when you said "most amps" can you provide an example? I ask becuase I still refuse to believe that a 600ohm rated hardware can be driven by a 30usd 4-channel amp like the S-AMP from Samson.
I have alot of vintage Beyers and Sennheisers, it’s weird because the 80s Beyers sound like modern Sennheisers with thicker bass and fat mids while the old Sennheisers are more like today’s Beyers with thinner, brighter sound, it’s like they decided to switch with each other.
Thanks for the review i use headphone for hours on end since i am a master/producer
Thank you, finally someone who understood the point AND also pointed it out properly.
Thanks
So i plugged in my elekit tu882 tube amp. Im at 9 oclock for a nice listening volume . bass, detail and dynamics are all there. Definitely great on tubes. When connected to my speaker amp i sometimes need to go from -15 to +5 db which is huge.
Simply the vídeo I needed. We bought the DT990 600 Ohms and we was looking for an amplifier. Thanks by tour help
DT990 600 Ohm is another story. It's easier to drive.
@@thomaskohler5181 Not really. I got both the 880 and the 990 in 600 ohm and they need exactly the same volume on my amp.
I've been enjoying my DT880 Pro 600Ohms for the last ~10 years, paired with an upgraded Woo Audio WA6 v1, a Sophia Princess Rectifier tube and different driver tubes I roll depending on how I feel. Nothing super extraordinary really (I mean, it's a $900 amp without the upgrades) but it's an incredibly good match. Super enjoyable experience
It's obviou you did your due diligence in this review, thank you! On a side note, any chance we can get a full ZMF Auteur review soon? Placing my order soon, and I would appreciate your impressions. Thanks!
Of course. I can probably put something together in a week or so. Would that work?
@@NoThemeReviews That would be great, thank you!
BTW, is there a particular amp/dac you want me to test on? You can see my mostly up-to-date gear list here: docs.google.com/document/d/1yvlAcfu9szNWTvybTzK0La8yzrvx7By926qDC7ggC1Q/edit?usp=sharing
@@NoThemeReviews I put in a review request yesterday, but I was curious about how the El Stack from JDS labs pairs with the Auteur, and also how higher end SS amps scale (if at all).
The dac he used can have variable output voltage, he used it so it may be confusing unless you knew that. And I can recc powerful speaker amps for some use cases due to how they handle negative feedback to dampen lower frequencies. It prob sounded best to Zeos on that amp due to the 220ohm output impedance as well so as long as you don't overdrive them it's fine. Thanks for this video! I'm curious if 300ohm would be too much for the 880. Will have to find out lol
No, I didn't know. I never jumped on the Geshelli band wagon.
It might be isterested to see meassurement graphes of the different AMPs + dt 880 how/if the output impedance influence those.
A few articles I linked do have measurements
The Emotiva A-100 IS available on their website. It was out of stock for awhile, but I just bought one a few weeks ago. It's a great amp for whatever you want to do with it.
Caveat: one must be exceedingly careful at all times with headphones.
Not going to repeat what everyone else said as you seem to have reconciled the point.
But I will repeat that this was an excellent piece.
Thank you for taking the time to collate this information into a video and using your position (that is having multiple amps at the same time) to provide this test.
You're right, impedance is not usually mentioned in the new generation, you occasionally hear about it when "system synergy" gets brought up or as an afterthought as to why planars don't play well with (OTL) tubes.
Yeah, it's treated as taboo. Output impedance is a fairly simple concept that people really should think about. I can't fault the non-discussion on the subject, though. How many reviewers in the last 10 years have dedicated any meaningful time to it? I can think of 2 articles--but I doubt people have the patience to read through them.
Can it be driven well by a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20? through the balanced monitors output instead the headphones output
Nice review! Hope you can help me with my setup
(referring to 600 ohm version) I can only max my budget to Vali 2. Will sound better the Magni or the Vali 2 based on the fact that it has higher output impedance (6 ohms) and tube amps tend to work better with high impedance headphones? Thanks.
I can't answer the Vali 2 question directly as I don't have that amp (eeh...maybe I should...we'll see). The only comparison I can make is to the Loxjie P20 ($100) and Bellari HA540 Mk2 ($200). The P20 can't drive the 880 properly, I'm sorry to say. The 540 can, though not as well as the Beyer and Cayin amps I tested in this video.
I suspect the the Vali 2 might drive the 880, though how well is only guesswork on my part. Schiit offers a 15-day return, starting from the date you receive the order.
Basing on a review I've seen (don't remember which right now) they tell that the Vali 2 actually drives the 880, but it's tbe same as Magni, it can drive it but losses detail and the essence of the headphones, but I guess that the Vali 2 will sound better than the Magni, as it has more output impedance, and tubes tend to work better with high impedances, and I also like tube sound, so I may end up getting it if I read more reviews and opinions about it 🙂
Edit: actually tubes "distort the sound" and lose some detail, so it may sound well, because the detail that the beyers can lose with a not matching amp is transformed into "distorsion" with tube amplifiers
@@talala6713 The Vali 2 is a hybrid tube amp. The tube is in the preamp section of the amp and NOT the power section. The Darkvoice is a true tube amp while the Vali 2 is a solid state amp in the output section that was designed to have higher output impedance but not because it uses a tube, which is in the preamp section.
Can I just check, are these definitely the 600ohm version? Because looking on the web and stuff, the special edition black version looks to only come in 250ohms, unless you get the ‘manufaktur’ customisable ones and choose all the options in black.
The Special Edition absolutely come in 600 ohm version. There are several other reviews for the 600 ohm SE. www.head-fi.org/threads/new-beyerdynamic-dt-880-special-edition-chrome-version-600-ohm.869619/
What do you guys think about dt 880 600 ohm with an tube amp like DarkVoice wich is know for a higher output impedance ?
I m ordering dt 880 600ohms to be powered by idsd mciro black.
5 years ago i used to have the 250ohms versikn powered by a fiio a5 amp.
Hopefully the 600ohm version with the micro idsds black will sound better.
Great review with explaining everything. I just bought A20 as I own some 600ohm Beyers headphones. I would like to suggest something, you did great job with comparing AMPs, is it possible to do the same with other headphones? I really would like to know how AMPs compare between each other when you use 150-300 ohm headphones, or maybe even something that is 32 or 50 ohms.
Great suggestion!
@@NoThemeReviews Out of curiousity, what do you think about DT880 in comparison to something like 1990 and T1?
I think the 600 ohm 880 is smoother than the 1990, and has no worse detail than the 1990. The T1 is just a joy to listen to. Its smooth, musical tuning is one of the best I’ve heard of any headphone. The 880 sounds less detailed and the bass less controlled than the T1.
@Tommy How is the sound of this combo? I'm currently own Asgard 3 amp, but i think that sound a little bit shy with this amp, what does this amp do for the bass region?
Firstly Zeos is going to love this🙈 apart from that I’m loving your review as I recently purchased a brand new unused pair of the original DT880 600ohm (with the Horns) and found my FX DAC X6 which I also have the FX Tube 03 linked to Drives them no problem. My THXAAA789 also running through the FX DAC and Tube 03 Buffer is Superb and again drives them effortlessly.So yes your right they do not need Nuclear power to drive them,I must note that I did Burn the DT880’s in for 2 Solid Days being New and noticed a huge sound difference from straight out of the Box👍🎧 Keep up the Good reviews as your thorough and always on the Mark.Well Done Sir.👏👏👏👏
Haha thanks! You're probably the 100th person who has confirmed the 600 ohm version works just fine with modest amps.
Yes, Zeos is crazy with his power recommendations. Don't know why he is doing that.
But clearly audible sound changes due to burn in is a myth, at least with traditional dynamic drivers as beyerdynamic is using them within this headphone. You can even read this on their f.a q page. Just psychological but if it works for you ;)
Lol. I can psychologically understand the argument for burn in for headphones. I just can’t hear it. The funniest burn in rec I’ve ever read is from AQ. Their manual said to burn in their headphones for AT LEAST 150 hours. I laughed so hard.
Woow.. Thx for the review! You just made up my mind on which amp to buy.. been hassling about which one to choose for months now.. Nice collection of amps you got.. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Ooh and also that special edition is looking sick..! Regret they didnt have that when I bought mine..
They show up sporadically on eBay and Amazon.
@No Theme Reviews , yes but i dont think they have that edition a while back when i bought mine.. by the way i wanted to ask u this. Since im in need of so much an upgrade, apparently the a20 is hard to get where i cutrently reside.. so the option comes down to 2 amp: that’s the smsl sp200 thx or (i know u’re not a fan of) im willing to try the emotiva since they have them here and im in need of a speaker amp as well.. other option would be the audiolab series, which do u think i should get? From all these considerations.. thank you so much for answering..
I am using the headphone amp of my Pioneer a 30 k speaker amp to drive my dt 880's. I messured the output impedance to be about 380 ohm's. I mostly listen at a quarter volume, when I turn the volume to one half my ears start to hurt.
Seems to be the perfect amp for this headphone :)
On a separate note, I wonder if it would be feasible for you to create a list of your recommended products (with a small blurb about the specifics of each unit) for us to reference? This could be updated as you hear new units, and separated into categories like "amps, dacs, amp-dacs" and "under $200, under $500, under $1000, above $1000" as needed?
I could. My concern is that it is taken the wrong way. I don't want to have a monthly or quarterly "best of" list, especially if it is subject to change. I think that causes confusion, and might bias me towards upholding an older list. I did something similar for the end of 2019. I plan on that again this year. I probably will expand on the list this year and provide more sub-categories.
Of course, you're always welcome to ask and discuss here, my email, or Patreon.
Top notch review 👌🏻
Really nice reviews. Keep up the good work!
Will do, thanks.
What is your favorite headphone amp for all purpose listening?
RME ADI-2 Dac and Woo WA7
Will the Monolith THX Headphone AMP/DAC drive these?
thank you for the review, i think i needed this years ago before i bought my dt8080 edition 600R. I love them but the only device i can really use them is my RME Babyface Pro. Its moderate loud but the output impedance is 10 Ohm. And actually it sound clear but I think i got some issues with the bass. cant really tell. I shoot today the Bayerdynamic A20 on ebay for 250.. I will give my opinion how it performs all together RME->A20=>DT880 and RME vs A20.
So you would recommend this for a liquid spark?
No. The 250ohm variant is a better fit
Would the id4mkii power these. ??
Great review!
Can you let me know if you’re ever selling these? I can’t find them anywhere
I recently pulled out my DT 880 250 ohm Chrome Edition and was pleasantly surprised at what I was hearing from my Magni 3+. Compared to the DT 990 600 ohm it’s not as different of a sound signature as many would believe. DT880 has slightly more forward and intimate mids and the treble isn’t as hot. Bass is very similar between the 2 models with slightly more midbass kick on the DT 990. I don’t have the assortment of amps that you have but both headphones exhibit a tuning that’s more suitable in a wider range of music than say for example the Focal Elegia. Now I need the DT 880 600 ohm Limited Edition to compare. Even if it’s close to the 250 ohm version I feel these headphones are keepers.
I just got my DT880 600ohm 20 minutes ago, now listening to the classical musics from German composers. I have a 7-year-old HD700 as well as a new DT990 pro 250Ohm that's ready to be returned to Amazon due to its piercing trebles (might change my mind in the next 30 days). To my surprise, the DT880 600ohm doesn't sound that different from the HD700, actually I'd say it's a what a HD700 should have been, aka a better version of HD600. I might change my mind after the headphones break in but I think the DT880 600ohm just sounds right at all frequencies, with slightly smaller soundstage than the DT990 but not that obvious.
Now stwitching to the DT990 Pro, I'm surprised, again, at how clear the DT990 is compared to the DT880. It feels like the DT880 has a bit of "Sennheiser" veil compared to the DT990. Now I'm confused 😂
@@fdc4810 What did you go with? Haha
Also Forgot to mention that my Dark Voice (with upgraded Tubes) Loves the DT880’s and also powers them effortlessly with insane Volume even at 10 O’Clock👍 So Do not discount using your Tube amps for driving these.
I already own a darkvoice and am interested in this headphone, do you reccomend it? I saw one of your replys to another comment saying something similar and you said the bass is muddy. Is it really bad or does it maintain a decent level of detail?
Thanks for the review! This confirmed my suspictions on zeos' review. I enjoy his content but its obvious that beyer would make this headphone with an intent for it not to require speaker amp amounts of power
Edit: I now own both and I did not like the dt880 on the darkvoice and I sold it.
IMO, the Darkvoice pairs fine with the 880. I think the bass is cleaner, tighter, and more detailed on a neutral solid state amp with proper output impedance, but that's a matter of taste. I can't tell you if the Darkvoice will provide a "decent level of detail" since I've not used the stock tubes. You will get slightly different performance with various tube pairings, so it's not possible for me to make a definitive statement, were I inclined to.
If you intend to get the 600 ohm variant, then the Darkvoice should do fine. But, honestly, I see no need to get the 600 ohm variant. The 250 ohm version is almost identical in sound signature, and doesn't require specialized amps.
@@NoThemeReviews thanks for the reply! I appreciate it. Im just trying to find another headphone that pairs well with my dark voice(i own a 650 already)
Which cheap amp would you recommend for the dt880 600ohm
Assuming you accept my high output impedance theory, the cheapest amp that can properly drive these is the Beyer A20. A portable alternative is the Sound Devices HX3. Unfortunately, companies don’t make high output impedance amps any more. Professional recording/mixing gear still does, but it’s hard to find “audiophile” products that do.
I just find the 880 to niche seems like one to get for cheap once u have alot of gear to play with glad you made it simpler for people. Also if you see this how do you feel about idac 6?
It’s fine. They call it a reference dac, and maybe that’s true. But, honestly, I think I’d be equally as satisfied with just the El Dac. I’ve learned the more you pay for a Dac, the more you have to convince yourself the price is justified. If you want a very well built Dac with plenty of connection options and a clean, neutral sound, then the iDac is great.
So I bought the 600 Ohm Dt880's. Tried them with a Zen Dac. They get loud but most frequencies sound like trash, it doesn't have enough power I think, the output impedance is low too. So the Zen Dac now functions as my primary DAC, so it's still very useful. Back when I watched this for the first time I didn't get the point and bought the Liquid Spark rather than any of the amps you recommended (I couldn't find that 60$ thing from Douk Audio/Nobsound at the time, The Samson S-Amp was and still is not available where I live, and the Marantz PHA-3 was more expensive than the Liquid Spark). So anyway I play them on high gain at anywhere from 9 to 12 o'clock and to me they sound fantastic, but these are the most expensive and best quality headphones I bought yet and my first open back on top of that. So I don't know any better. When upgrading my amp though, I will pick the Emotiva BasX A-100 because they can power my Jamo s803 passive speakers that I bought as speakers for my computer while also powering my Dt880s 600Ohm (the headphone out has a power of 350 mW per channel at 600 Ohm, 8 Ohms: 60 mW / channel; not 50W like you claimed in the video. [ emotiva.com/collections/all/products/a-100 ] ) and this does it all in one box, rather than having two separate boxes: a speaker amp and a headphone amp, like I do now, so it's gonna save me some deskspace and where I live I can still buy it and it's for roughly 200$ less than the Beyerdynamic a20, which is just a headphone amplifier. It's also like a 100$ more than my speaker amp(class D fosi audio from aliexpress) and headphone amp combined, but it's gonna be an upgrade on both fronts so It's absolutely ideal for me. I might have to spend another 100$ on an RCA bluetooth receiver, cause I don't know if my btr5 will as a bluetooth receiver for it. I don't think it will since it doesn't work as a dongle dac for my headphone amp either, just bypasses the whole thing, it's hella weird.
Power is Def needed compared to my other headphones but I think the type of amp is more important. Having a good clean class a amp does wonders for it. Maybe even something tilted a bit warm for my taste anyway
Are the black edition not 250 ohm only? Let me know if otherwise, as I'd be interested in the 600ohm black version.
No. They are also in 600 ohm. The Amazon link in the description gives an option for both grey and black in 600 ohm. There are very few black versions. I was lucky and found a refurbished set on Amazon. If you keep looking, you might find them. Amazon’s search engine is pretty dumb. Go through Google instead.
Would this sound good on a fiio e10k? If not, what small dac/amo could make them sound good?
No absolutely not. You need significantly higher output impedance and more power than the e10k provides. There is no portable Dac/amp that can drive the 600 ohm variant.
So, if I don't have enough budget to get the A20 and I only have for Heresy or Vali 2 or something else, will the 250 ohm version fit better and have better sound signature than if I get the 600 ohm ones with the Heresy? Thanks.
PD: Nice video, helped a lot
I can’t say since I don’t have the 250 version. But it will be easier to drive for sure.
@@NoThemeReviews Thanks!
Great comparison between the different amps. Would the DT 880 (600 ohm) headphones work well with the Fiio K3 portable DAC/Amp, or the Fiio K5 desktop Amp? According to reviews online, it said that the Fiio K5 can only run headphones that are up to 300 ohms. Is this true?
Neither the K3 nor the K5 can drive 600 ohm headphones
@@NoThemeReviews Thanks for letting me know. I'll look for something else. Can you recommend anything?
I reviewed a few alternatives for this headphone in follow-up videos. The Samson S-Amp, a Douk Audio amp/Dac, and Marantz PH3 will easily drive the 600 ohm 880.
@@NoThemeReviews Thanks for taking time to reply. I'll check those amps out.
Does that mean my $90 XDuoo TA-05 hybrid tube amp would drive these cans just fine?
I don't think power will be the issue; xDuoo doesn't publish the output impedance, so that's an unknown. But, OTL amps have much higher output impedance than solid state amps. I don't have the TA-05 so I can't say how it performs with the 880.
What does high output impedance do to a headphone without high impedance?
nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html?m=1
What about a Dt 880 vs audeze lcd 1 comparison?
What would you recommend the between Dt 880 and Hd58x, Im looking for a wide soundstage and detail, but the dt 880 seems like a hassle pairing an amp with. I have a Lyr 3 and a Topping A50s. Also your reviews are great!
I have a 880-related video coming out today. You may want to watch that.
As for a choice between the 880 and 58x...well...the sound signatures are different. I think in detail, the 880 when properly amped does provide greater detail and clarity. As for soundstage, that's a tougher call. I'd say the 880 is marginally wider.
Hd58x does not have a wide soundstage
I want to use the DT-880 with my Asus Xonar Essence STX sound card, ,which has enough power to drive them at a decent volume. It only has 10 Ohms of output impedance though. So, based on your report, the 250 Ohm Version would be more suited for that sound card, wouldn't it?
Theoretically yes.
I have the have the MMX 300, DT 880, DT 990 - all of them with 600 ohm impedance. It's pretty obvious that I like Beyers. I can perfectly drive all of them with my Burson Playmate (2 W @ 32 ohm). Execpt for very quiet recordings going anywhere above 60 on high gain gets uncomfortably loud.
Edit: Nevermind. Just got a Beyerdynamic A 20 and it wipes the floor with the Burson when it comes to 300+ Ohm headphones.
Hope I am not out of line with an unrelated question to this video - but am curious of your recommendation for a pad change for the Base Audio G12
Naw. Ask whatever you want. I suggest the official Grado G-Cush pads that fit the GS series. You don’t need to adapt anything. The pads are interchangeable. I’ve tried cheaper knockoffs that simply aren’t as comfy as the Grado
@@NoThemeReviews Huge thanks sir - keep up the good fight - have enjoyed your thorough and classy presentations!
The Emotiva BasX A100 does not put out 50 watts into 600 ohm headphones. The manufactures spec sheet states it outputs 0.6 watt (600 milliwatts) into 600 ohms. Just ohm's law at work.
Thanks you for the video. Very thorough. Have had DT880's for 1.5 years. Do you game at all?
I am looking for a gaming amp (usb audio input,with mic jack) with a small desktop profile.
I currently use a Creative Soundblaster X7 which eats up the 600ohm no probs. It's mains powered and very good with music to boot. It is bulky though.
Creative and other companies have smaller products but I am unconvinced as they run on usb for power.
Do you think any desktop amp that sources it's power from usb could ever sufficiently power DT880's? Cheers Bob
I don't game much. Unfortunately, there aren't many options for a gaming amp with mic input. I have the Sound Blaster G6, which does a fine job. Burson makes the Fun and Playmate which have mic inputs. But that's the only options I'm aware of.
What’s the best headphone for recording and mixing what do you recommend
I’m no mixing or mastering artist. All I can say is if you want neutral, then Ollo headphones are the place to go. If you want super analytical with cost not being an option, then the Focal Clear and HD800s. But, honestly, everybody in the industry uses speakers. Headphones for such work are useful but not nearly as important as Audeze, Beyer, AT and every reviewer makes them out to be. If you read articles by producers, you’ll notice they say they use headphones to dial in a particular sound and use monitors the vast majority of the time. And a lot of producer will use simple $200 headphones.
No Theme Reviews thank you I appreciate it I found your videos very helpful especially when a lot of reviewers hype up a lot of the headphones
@No theme reviews - Interesting findings. My personal experience, at least with the dt990 and T1 600 ohms, is that they are not as hard to drive as you'd expect. Both of them are driven well off my Fiio M15 in se mode. I don't experience the issues with bass on these headphones with this setup as you have had with the 880 on your amps. I don't know the output impedance of the m15, but all iems (so far, including the Andromeda) sound as they should on it, so I doubt it would be very high. I don't doubt your theory, but I'd like to hear from others on their findings. FWIW, maybe Zeos (I'm assuming he was the individual you referred to) was referring to the sound quality of the 880 600ohm and not specifically the volume levels.
Portafi says that the M15's output impedance is the following: approx 1.4 ohms for unbalanced and approx 3 ohms for balanced.
There you go. Thanks.
How is JDS Labs Atom+ Amp with these?
I hope it's not too late to ask but how would the DT 880 600 Ohm work with the iFi Zen? Or would you rather recommend using the 250 Ohm version with this DAC/Amp?
I can confirm it does in fact work with the Zen Dac. But you'll have to nearly max out the volume. The sound signature is a bit muffled and the soundstage is narrower than compared to the 789.
It sucks on the ifi zen. Hook a loxjie p20 up to the zen with upgraded power supplies and tubes, and you’re cooking with grease
which one did you end going with? 600 or 250? I have the same amp and also have been wondering which one will sound better.
Emotiva BasX can put out about 20V of voltage. If its output impedance is 220 Ohm, then the total load is 820 Ohm and the output current will be about 24 mA. 24 mA into 600 Ohm equals ~350 mW. In short, it's very powerful but not that much more powerful than some headphone amps than can push 100-150 mW into 600 Ohm.
Can the little little bear b4x with the opamp swap power this?
Not well
Can you just tell me that "Can I use (benefit dt880's potential) this 600 ohm headphone with creative sound blaster zx soundcard without any amp? "Because creative says the sb z and zx is compatible up to 600 ohm headphones, but unfortunately there is not enough info in creative's official product website about the headphone amp values.
No, these sound cards are not designed to work with headphones like this DT880. The sound blaster is a consumer-level sound card. I'm sure it can drive 600 ohm headphones, but it doesn't have the required output impedance for this specific headphone.
How about running the 880 from the ADI 2? I currently use LCD-2C with my ADI 2 DAC and have been thinking of trying the 880 600ohm. Do they sound decent?
Well..."decent" is subjective. Yes, the 880 sounds fine with all the amps I tested; and it sounds fine with the RME. Given the two sound profile options I spoke of, I would prefer the one that comes from higher output impedance. But, as I said in the review, you can still very much enjoy the 880 from other amps. In fact, I paired the 880 to the WA7 (1 ohm output impedance) and it sounded really pleasant. Bottom line is this: you don't need tremendous amplification for the 880. Different output impedances will provide a different driver reaction. Other than the 1Amp, all the other amps I tested work just fine with the 880.
@@NoThemeReviews Alright thanks for replying!
I have a lot of older Home Theater Amps. I can't find specs but the manual says "PHONES:
Accepts low- and high- impedance headphones". It is a Sony STR-SE501. I also have a Parasound R/HD-300II from 1988. A Sony STR-DE915 and a Yamaha RX-V620. Not being a minimalist doesn't bother me, but I don't know how well amps like this work with Head Phones versus headphone amps. Would anyone here recommend the 600ohm?
Why do you think the sound changes so much depending on output impedance? The DT880 600 Ω is measured on diyaudioheaven and displays no tonality changes between a 0.2 Ω output impedance amplifier and and a 120 Ω one.
nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html
Also, one man's measurement is merely a factor for consideration. Anyway, his graph does show a difference with altered output impedance, particularly in the bass. So, it's not quite accurate to say that there's no change. Moreover, HOW he measured and the sensitivity of his equipment is equally important for discussion. It would have been helpful had he repeated the impedance test with the headphone in different positions.
I'd be very interested in reading how he explains his results in light of NwAvGuy's treatise on the matter, the other sources linked in the comments, and Beyerdynamic's recommendations. I suppose what Beyerdynamic says may not be as important as data, but it's still something to consider. I am genuinely interested in knowing why his results differ from both prior discussions regarding output impedance, and subjective experience (which is probably not a driving factor).
@@NoThemeReviews Any differences above 20 Hz in his measurements are extremely slight. "The smallest audible difference most can hear is about 1 dB" - NwAvGuy. The higher the Ω of the headphones, the less the 1/8 rule matters. My understanding is that 600 Ω Beyers are supposed to work on high and low output impedance source without changing tonality.
Based on DIYAudioHeaven's graph? Well, that's one measurement. Again, it's fairly strange that his measurements contradict the information I found and spoke of in the review. I can't answer for DIY.
Did you test DT 880 with the SMSL SP200 ?
No I don't have the SP200
Im currently using it with the sp 200 it drives the headphones perfectly no distortion, loud at high gain 10
Hello @No theme Reviews , first I have to congratulate you for this amazing video and explanation....second I need your advice: I just bought the DT 990 600 ohms, My home amplifier is an yamaha a-s501, on the specifications it says outuput Impedance on the headphone jack: 430 mV/470 ohms, is this enough or too high to be paired to the 990's? As an alternative I tought about the Fiio K5 PRO, but don't know if it's good or bad to be paired with the 990's. What do you think? Any recomendation beside's these? Thank you for any help!
I've never used the S501, and its specs aren't particularly clear. The US website does not have a headphone power output table, and the Japanese website has contradictory information in the table. I think the 430mv/470 ohm is referring to something about CDs, but I can't understand it.
Anyway, I wouldn't be confident that the S501 has enough power and high enough impedance for the DT990. I don't think the S501 has 470 ohm output impedance; that's likely a typo.
Good video! I am interested in these or the 990s. I use a NAD c326 bee as an amp, with a headphones output of 68 ohm. What can you recommend? 250 or 600 ohm version? Thanx!
I’m pretty sure the C326 won’t be able to drive the 600 ohm variant. The 250 ohm version is probably a safer bet. There isn’t much difference in sound between them.
Would it work on the IFI Zen CAN and Zen DAC combo?
The Can will get the headphones fairly loud but it does t have the required output impedance.
Do you think that there’s better alternative for the 250 ohm than the Zen Dac? I’m testing the DT 880 and the Zen Dac but the headphones is heavily pushing the zen dac with power matching. Should I go for the Liquid Spark or maybe JDS Atom?
The Zen Dac easily drives the HD6xx, which is 300 ohms, so it really shouldn't have a problem with 250ohm DT880. But, if you want more power, then the Liquid Spark is a good option.
@@NoThemeReviews I think you’re taking about the balanced 4.4mm right? Because the Zen DAC is 13mW at 300 Ohm and the Zen CAN 161mW at 300 Ohm, single ended, and I don’t think the Dacs enough. I need to have the gain on and the knob turned all the way up for the volume to be just right, but the knob completely turned up makes the dac struggle with the control of the sound. I’m thinking about stacking it with the can, but if I’m upgrading I thought about getting the 600ohm, but it’s not a big difference between the 250 and the 600, but in terms of sound gear it could cost me north of 350USD to get something that powers them up, so I don’t know…
@@Fjaelyep There's really not much of a difference between the 250 and 600 ohm. If you buy the 600 ohm variant, you should just get a cheap amp with an output impedance of 100 ohms, because that's what you'll need.
Love your videos mate, but Zeos does say specifically, making loud sound doesn't mean that the Amp is right for the Cans. But great video nonetheless mate.
Fair enough!
Right, exactly, lol, it’s all subjective when it gets to certain level’s
What do you think about Aune X7s overall? I know it can manage drive to the 880 600ohm from the unbalanced port but it is needed to put the gain on high from the bottom controls of X7s? Z said it could somehow destroy the amp? I'm still so sorry if the question is stupid.
Not at all, it's not a stupid question. Zeos says things without thinking. I had the X7s for a while, about a year, then sold it. It's a powerful, neutral amp. You'll need to switch to high gain for the extra power needed for some hard to drive headphones. Switching to high gain does not cause issues for the amp; you just need to be careful that you turn the volume knob slowly if you're using low-impedance headphones when high gain is switched on.
@@NoThemeReviews Thank you for the assurance! I'm planning to buy the DT880 600ohm for my collection. I have a very weird setup but as long as it works, right? Focusrite Solo as dac and Aune X7s as amp.
@@tichy_ocean Lol yes. As long as it works and you enjoy the experience, that's what matters.
Great video and education. On full scale speakers, damping factor and impedance has the same influence on low efficiency speakers. This is well known and understood in hifi world. I figured mid way on your video a 600ohm headphone is comparable to a low efficiency speaker. Keep up good work.
so the schiit heresy sucks with the dt880 600ohm ? i was going to get it but i have that amp
I wouldn't say it "sucks." The Heresy simply does not have the correct output impedance for the 600 ohm DT880.
Where the hell I can find 880 - 600Ohm in black ? :)
See the amazon link in the description
Hello, great vídeo thanks for this. I have a question, i have the smsl sp200 and the m200, do you try with sp200? Thanks and continues a good work 👍
Hi. I don't have the SP200 and cannot comment on its performance specifically. However, the SP200 has the same power output in SE as it does in balanced. I believe the output impedance is about 0 ohms. So...I think it will likely fall in line with the solid state amps I tested.
No Theme Reviews sorry for my incompetence, when you tell the “SE” what is it?
Single ended 1/4” output
No Theme Reviews thanks
I have an sp200, i can tell that the amp has a lot of headroom in therm of power but this headphones need high voltage, something sounds very detailed something don't, bass can get very muddy at sustained volumes and can distort the rest of the frequencies. Even more headroom would be good if you don't have very high voltages like in an speaker amp.
How about the JDS labs atom amp?
I would also want to know since I was considering it.
So I am assuming the A2 from The headphone company was more accurate?
Very interesting. Do you think I could drive the 880 600oms with just my presonus audiobox 22vsl ? The audio interface have 30 mW per channel, @ 60Ω load of maximum power on the headphone output
Not effectively.
Hi, fiiO K5 pro can drive dt880 600 ohms? Thanks!
No
The only DT 880 black edition I found is the 250 ohms, even on the Beyerdynamic website, at least in Europe...
They're not easy to find in the US either. They are limited edition, as far as I know.
THANKS! THE BEST!
Can you suggest an audio interface that can drive this 600 ohm headphone ?....
An audio interface? No. None.
@@NoThemeReviews Oh alright
@@palakchaudhary562 Get a Motu M2/4 and and a Beyer A20. Works like a charm for me.
i´ve checked the s-amp with the dt880s/600. The S-amp has enough power for driving the 880´s with insane volume at 12 o´clock and the sound seems better cause it´s clearer.
BUT!! the whole spacious magical sound from the dt880´s is gone. The reason for that seems, the S-amp is somehow cutting the high frequencies.The soundstage is getting much smaller with the s-amp.
I don´t know from where exactly, but i´m guessing s-amp cuts somewhat above 11 or 12 khz on. So it is no wonder the sound seems clearer with a voicecoil which has not much to do, cause it uses not the whole sound spectrum.
Anyway, it´s a nice little amp for insane volume speacially with high ohm BD HP´s and maybe for playing arround a bit.
Did you trying any amp better than the s-amp? I am looking at that amp but also something else affordable like that one that can power the 880.
@@hunterjg777 The S-Amp is the worst unit you can imagine for dt 880´s. Buy an AUNE S17 Pro for 600-700 bucks new and you have 2K+ sound for all your headphones, dt880 incl. thank me later
anyone knows if the smsl sp200 runs the dt 880 600ohms?
The BasX A-100 only has 50W at 8ohms. Do you know of any 8 ohm headphones? At 600 ohms it has 600mW. For frame of reference for 600 ohm loads the 789 SE has 100mW, the Atom has 125mW, the SP200 has 220 mW, and the Asgard 3 has 300mW.
What do you think about the ae7 soundcard from creative. Using it right now and asking myself if it is right for my dt 990s at 600 Ohm.
I’ve never used it.
Dunno about that soundcard, but I have that same headphone. And it is true about the impedance. Mine are well matched with the Project Polaris amp when switched to 120 Ohm OI. Oh and if you like a bit of "tube sound", the Polaris has a bit of it but with the lower maintenance of a solid state amplifier.
@nomorereviews the fiio k5 pro has 1.5w and output impedance of 2 ohm what do you think?
It easily drives my 250 ohm 990s but i wanted to get these
The K5 Pro has plenty of power for the DT880...it's the output impedance that's the limitation. It may not make any difference to you, as you might enjoy how the 880 performs on the K5.
@@NoThemeReviews im about to buy 880s im sticking to the 250 ohm version
Could someone tell me if these will pair nicely with the Darkvoice 336se?
Sure. The bass is muddy, but the sound signature is enjoyable, IMO. You don't need something as powerful as the 336se. The Woo Audio WA7 works perfectly as well, and without needing to beyond 10 o'clock on the volume knob.
The Cayin iHA-6 has 200mW/ch at 600 ohms in low current mode and 90mW/ch at 600 ohms in high current mode (both single ended). Source: post #387 in the iHA-6 thread on Head-fi has a chart of the iHA-6's power output in its various modes at various impedance loads.
I've been using the 600 ohm 880's with a Violectric V280 (which, if the V200's SE output is indicative of the V280's SE output, it should be around 570mW, and an output impedance of less than 1 ohm). While I don't have a cacophony of amps to test it with as you did (except for a Scarlett Solo, which predictably has a difficult time), but I'm definitely getting that rolled-low end sound you described; lots of slam, and not a whole lot of deficiencies elsewhere in the sound, but definitely a recessed sub-bass. While overall I do think the pairing does sound good, I'm curious to try it with something with a higher output impedance. As for what you said about Zeos, I would say you're having a mild overreaction (unless that was just a way to boost engagement, in which case, you're doing a great job!), and I would ascribe this to more of an "Occam's razor" situation. I think he just legitimately didn't even consider that output impedance could be at play, he just noticed that big strong amp power headphon well, and smol tiny 789 couldn't.
That certainly could be an explanation for Zeos. It makes sense. I know my attitude about Zeos comes off brutish but I’m frustrated people keep giving him a pass for his nonsense. He has much influence and is popular enough that should be want to talk to a manufacturer he would have an easy time of it. Why he couldn’t just contact Beyer and ask is beyond me.
Would this power with the little bear b4x or the loxjie p20?
I tried it with the P20. Yes, the P20 can power it, and it sounds fine. The P20 has an output impedance of 47 ohms. I couldn't find Loxjie's specs about this, but several forum posts say this is correct. I don't know if the 47 ohms is for balanced or single ended, assuming this is the correct number.
I ran these off the P20 connected to an iFi zen dac via balanced output. It can run them just fine.
As you're a big fan of the chord mojo (a well known fact !), have you tried the DT 880 with it ? By the way, thanks a lot for this very interesting review, with not too many references to other reviewers ...
Lol. I don’t HATE it. But I don’t love it either. I can understand why others are big fans of the Mojo, but I look at the cost to performance as well, and based on that (and what cheaper competitors offer)....anyway, I can test the 880 on the Mojo
@@NoThemeReviews That would be great. You seems to have a rather large and impressive collection of headphones dac-amps. Stupid question : if you have to pick just one combo (headphones + dac-amp) which one will you take right now ?
Not a stupid question at all. It’s a tough one. What I’m leaning towards at the moment: the 880 with the WA7. My all time favorite headphone so far is the Eikon paired with the Glass FX Tube Dac
@@NoThemeReviews it would be very interesting to have a "review"of your all time favorite combo.
how about atom?
Can't say. I don't have the Atom.
I’m sure my Heresy can drive them, but will they be able to bring out the full potential of sound quality of the dt 880 600ohm?
Nope
@@NoThemeReviews should I opt for the 250 ohm version then? From what i’ve gathered there isn’t that much of a difference correct?
Yes the 250 ohm version is a far better option than spending money and effort finding the right amp for the 600 ohm version.
@@NoThemeReviews awesome thx for the help, and I rlly appreciate the work you do. keep it up!
hey bro what do you think is a good amp/dac to power dt1990pro?
If you want something neutral, then the NX4. If you want something on the warmer side, then the Hip Dac. If you want analytical, then Monolith THX Portable. There are a few other options around, but all of these are easily available and have been tested by the community for a while.
No Theme Reviews hey ntr i just wanna know if which is better . Asgard3 with modious stack or black label micro ifi . cause its 600 dollars here in the philippines for the ifi while stack would cost me like around 599 also with the tax plus ill wait for shipping of stack sorry my bad english.
Sounds about right, I think. I don't understand why others can't just look at the headphone specs and email beyer about this. I did and was told their 600ohm headphones need more output impedance.
Great video, finally someone making sense. I have a few questions:
1. Would 300ohm headphones sound better on 100ohm or 0ohm output resistance?
2. Do you have any AMP recommendations for such headphones?
3. What about DAC?
Each headphone is different, so there's no way for me to say whether a generic 300 ohm headphone would sound better on a 100 ohm output impedance amp. For example, the HD650/6xx pair quite well with tube amps, which have high output impedance. Other headphones don't.
Ultimately, this is an issue of preference, not of absolute right or wrong. If someone advocates pumping unhealthy amounts of power into a headphone to achieve a particular result, then thinking of output impedance might be of some help. If, however, you merely like the sound signature from mis-matched damping factor, then that's totally fine.
To your specific questions:
1. Without knowing which headphone you are referring to, I cannot say whether pairing a 300 ohm headphone to a 100 ohm output impedance amp would be beneficial. The GENERAL rule is that you want to keep a damping factor of 8, which tends to work for the vast majority of headphones. How you end up perceiving--liking or disliking--the sound is something only you can answer.
2. Please see above. However, assuming you are referring to the HD650 or some other similar dynamic driver headphone, then there are plenty of amps that tend to pair quite well. The DarkVoice is an excellent choice, as is the Zen Dac. I think the Beyerdynamic A20 is a very good amplifier and provides 100 ohm output impedance; it tends to pair well with the HD6xx, though you may want more volume than what the A20 provides.
3. Dacs won't make any difference in the specific issue we're discussing. But, if you want a recommendation for affordable, neutral dacs: SMSL Sanskrit Mk2, Topping E30, Soncoz LA-QXD1 are a few I think provide good bang for you money.
@@NoThemeReviews Thank you for the comprehensive reply. I will be more specific. I have Zen DAC and I don't like the sound of HD6XX and I was curious if pairing it with something like A20 would make them sound better. I also have DT880 250ohm and was curious how would 600ohm version compare. So I'm thinking about buying A20 and DT880 600ohm, but I'm not sure if A20 would make HD6XX sound better or even worse. Also, would I need a different DAC, or would Zen DAC work fine with A20? I mean, would there be a significant difference comparing to better DACs? What do you think?
@@atyne_mar Well, my personal subjective opinion is that the 6xx pairs very well with the A20. But, I haven't found an amp that does not pair well with the 6xx, so take that with a grain of salt.
I think when you're talking about the 250 ohm variant of the 880, output impedance is less of an issue. There are sonic differences overall between the 250 ohm and 600 ohm that simply cannot be matched. The drivers perform differently in some regards.
I don't advocate changing components unless you're unhappy with them. The Dac has a slightly U-shaped sound signature. The A20 is fairly neutral. I've never tried this combo, so I can't say whether there is any meaningful difference. Generally speaking, the Dac will likely make the bass a little thicker, less detailed than a true neutral dac. Whether you actually perceive that, or whether you like or dislike it, is something I can't say. In my experience, the Dac has a marginal influence on neutral amps.
@@NoThemeReviews I'm little bit confused. Zen DAC has warm and U-shaped signature? Does that mean it's boosted in bass and treble?
@@atyne_mar Yes, that's correct.
so for the dt990 premium 250 ohm it's best to find a 31 ohm amp? how do I find an amp with a specific resistance. i.e. the liquid spark may be good but needs more ohm :/
thanks
Lol, I assume you did the damping factor conversion to the 31 ohm number? Most companies state the output impedance for the headphone section. I don't know of any amps with 31 ohms, but I'm sure you can find something in the general ballpark. For example, I think the Loxjie P20 is 47 ohms. A rule of thumb is that tube amps have high output impedance, and hybrid amps like the P20 do as well (at least greater than 1 ohm, but typically less than full OTL amps).
There are a few sub-$50 tube hybrid headphone amps on Amazon (Fosi P2 and Nobsound NS-08, for example), but I can't find their output impedance specs. Hopefully if you contact the seller/manufacturer, they'll be able to tell you.
But, to be perfectly clear, I am not proposing that the 250 ohm variant of the DT990 requires high output impedance. This video was specifically about the 600 ohm DT880. In fact, I have listened to the 250 ohm version of the 880, and do not think it needs 100 ohm output impedance, and seems to work just fine with low-impedance amps.
So, while I'm not discouraging you from experimenting with high output impedance on the 990, I am also not saying you need to. If you're inclined to test it on high impedance amps, then I'd recommend sticking to cheaper amps like the P20 in case you don't hear a difference or don't like the pairing.
@@NoThemeReviews thanks a lot! I'm looking for a new headphone and I really can't make a choice lol. I do need a super duper comfy headphone combined with decent (better than shitty gaming headphones) audio quality. Before watching your vid, I thought to buy the DT990 600 ohm premium, with the topping L30 or the schiit magni 3+. 600 ohm because I really do want the best quality and if the 32 & 250 & 600 beyer cost the same, then why wouldn't I go for the 600 ohm.
Then, I needed an amp. An amp always improves the audio quality compared to my mobo. But then again, a 32 beyer 990 premium does not need an amp. A 250 or a 900 does. But an amp always improves the sound quality compared to my mobo, so I chose to ignore 32 ohm headphones and go for the 600 ohm variant combined with an amp.
But now I'm stuck again because idk which amp.
990 premium 250 ohm + Loxjie P20 (yup I did 250/8 for the daming) / toppie/schiit
990 premium 600 ohm + beyer A20 (amp more expensive than headphone)
The latter combo is expensive so then I was like: what if I bought the hd 660s (150 ohm) combined with the toppie L30/schiit magni 3+ , which costs the same as the 600 ohm beyer + A20 amp
But I think the beyer is way more comfy than the sennheiser
So in the end I think I'm going for the 990 premium 250 ohm + a high ohm amp like the Loxjie P20
or do you recommend the 990 premium 250 ohm + toppie L30/schiit magni 3+ and just call it a day
thanks again for answering if you're reading this lol
@@321rafwaf123 Hahahaha. Dude you put in so much thought into this! I really hope you enjoy your setup. Let me know if you need any other help.