What I realized about YWAM after 5 years
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มี.ค. 2023
- YWAM or Youth with a Mission operates as one of the largest missions movements in human history. After 5+ years with YWAM I am sharing some of my thoughts about YWAM, its costs and its opportunities.
Many Christians today don't realize that their thinking is affected by humanism. We are taught from a young age to embrace reason when we are given truth not through reason but through revelation. If we want to live fully and faithfully for God, we must be willing to receive his discipline even when it doesn't make sense to us.
My goal on this channel is to remove obstacles from your YES to Jesus.
Following Jesus is more complicated that you might think. From when I first became a Christian, I struggled to understand what it meant to be a faithful follower of Jesus. Many Christians today seem too similar to the world. After twenty years of honest wrestling I have found the solution to my problem. It has to do with the struggle between two worldviews: humanism and revelation. Christians are often a confused mixture of the two and this leads to a complete breakdown in the maturity.
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I hope you check this post. I was at the main base in Kailua Kona in '79 - '81. I played at Laurence Cunningham's apt with his kids. His mother in law showed me how to thread a needle. It was such an exciting time We had just gotten Kings Mansion and the first Mercy ship. The prophecies and vision that were talked about in Mr. Cunningham's book were coming true. My parents did a DTS and then helped to start Crossroads DTS as we talked and realized that there needed to be a separation from regular DTS for singles and for families.
It's so true that there were teachings that crept in to all Churches during this time that could and would be dangerous. And YWAM was no exception.
But When I graduated HS I went to Australia for my DTS in'87 and mission in the Philippines. Just having a time set aside for God was wonderful. I didn't want to continue as a missionary myself but the experience was unforgettable.
I am so sad today to hear that different places and bases are causing harm. To go back to the simple motto that we had " to know God and make Him known " without all the other weird things would be my hearts desire.
The reality is that the harm and abuse is very minimal in terms of a percentage. Its present in all forms of humanity in these percentages. YWAM has just gotten that big. But most of the issues are relatively small. Though I believe should address them with great importance none-the-less.
It's interesting that you talk of 'mission in the Philippines' and the two connected comments are 'having time set aside for god was wonderful' and 'the experience was unforgettable'. That's the basic understanding anthropologically of what short term missions do. Nothing for the indigenous people, apart from harm, and plenty for the folks coming in with no language, no understanding of the culture, no skills of any use to the people there.
Thank you for posting. Good insight and we appreciate your candor.
I was in YWAM Kona for almost two years in total. Did a DTS then a 9 month Rev and Ref school. And eventually went into the school of biblical studies then dropped out. YWAM has a lot of potential to do good but the lack of leadership, order, and infiltration of charismatic cult like tendencies, I honestly feel like it does more harm than good. There was so many fake signs and wonders and false prophicies spoken over people it's crazy. God can move powerfully in anyone's life no matter what season there in or what ministry they are connected to. I wish you the best along your journey in life man!
Really appreciated this as it is something I thank God for & encourage my own kids, & grandkids to go for. Their faith then becomes 'theirs' & not just moms & dads.
Thanks for this Video. I very much agree with you.
And I appreciate you taking the time and putting it to the point with what makes YWAM great but as well the difficulties with it.
I'm very grateful for how YWAM impacted my life for the (as well) last 5 1/2 years.
It’s amazing and frustrating especially if you don’t realize it’s intentional.
Thanks for making this Philip
You bet! Thanks for the comment.
This is great info to share with those trying to understand YWAM and also how it is run. I encourage students and parents to visit each base before they go or send someone to YWAM. If you want to pursue YWAM for yourself or another young person - this video is worth your time and consideration. Thank you for this message Philip! We are big fans and supporters of YWAM and try to help as many young people go through a DTS as possible.
That’s awesome! It’s an amazing ministry.
Great overview... well balanced and informative. Thanks.
Thanks Tom!
Nice video! I did my DTS back in 2012 and although it was a good experience I felt God telling me it wasn’t for me and He has other plans for me 😎 God bless!
I love your idea about a video to help both students and parents decide how to choose a YWAM base! You should definitely do it!
I made that video! Look on my channel for it.
Thank you Phillip for taking the time to think through such interesting, real life challenges for Ywamers as well as actually outside of YWAM. I did my DTS way back at what was called the King's Mansion in Kona. Went on to what was called a School of Evangelism...ended up teaching school at the ICS and on staff for a total of about 5 years before following God's call to work with refugees in Long Beach CA for about 2 years. Loved my time with YWAM and greatly respect those who take on leadership roles. Sad that some, not many, are immature or inexperienced. Though actually in all my time with YWAM did not run into any...so it's heartbreaking to hear of those who do. There are sad things that happen in the church....and for that matter the Bible is full of sad stories. It doesn't skirt the matter so to speak. Anyway, with prayer and wise counsel I would encourage anyone to follow God wholeheartedly with any YWAM mission you might be feeling called to. So excited for you! I love the expression of God's sense of adventure and creativity in YWAM.❤❤❤
Thanks Philip, I did my DTS in Perth Western Australia in 2002. It really changed my life. Recently I realised that The HOLY SPIRIT is so Powerful that it only took Him 6 days to create the whole earth and all of the universe, (which BTW is so big that we still know so little about yet) and everything on the earth, bird's tree's animals fish and so on, whilst all this is so awesome because that is so much more complicated than it sounds, yet what really blows my mind today is that it can take a lifetime to for The HOLY SPIRIT to change an angry man to an amazing lover of God and man, for example. WHY IS THAT SO? Simply because He has to appeal to him so many times, before he/she responds to Him. But He cannot use anyone until that one responds to the calling of The HOLY SPIRIT! Don't miss out any longer. Just say, "YES LORD!"
Yes, the most important thing is to become more like Jesus. At my DtS 1997,Flekkerøy, Norway, we said; Knowing God and making Him known. So knowing is doing and growing in knowing Him, day by day. No matter where or what we do❤
Super good. I am willing to make all my ways less my ways and more His way, He has always secured the best case scenario always for me . God is my provider and even through many Episodes of tragedy. God remains faithful and I love the crazy Yes to God. Because He is a way maker, miracle worker. He is the Best!
🙌🏻🙌🏻
I did my DTS in Maui about 15 years ago. Negative takeaways- leadership and teammates were immature and I really struggled to find someone serious in their relationship with God. Positives- It changed my perspective about the Holy Spirit for the better. They taught me how to listen to His leading in a new way.
1 more thing I didn't like...we went to Nepal with the intention of training Christian leaders. A bunch of immature teenagers training Nepali leaders was a joke. I think it should be more marketed as come check out Nepal and see if living cross culturally is for you.
@@SJ-fj1cj Thanks for your thoughts. Sounds like you had a positive experience with God and realized the immaturity of the people around you. I have had good and not-good outreach experiences with YWAM. Not-good is different than bad. Thank you for sharing.
Been in YWAM over ten years now. Thank you for being honest.
Hi Philip, I did my DTS in 2003 in Fiji and have also served with Mercy Ships, where I met my wife, I recently took my Daughter to Port Moresby in PNG to do Mission Building for 2wks, I plan to do something simular with my boys in 2025. This video is a good explanation of YWAM, because it is kinda hard to explain to people, my experience was actually really positive, but what you are saying makes alot of sense.😊
Really considering YWAM. I had a great feeling about it until this morning when a video popped up on my TH-cam recommended. I thought it was going to be someone talking about the positives of their experience but it wasn’t and that has thrown me off tremendously.
Yeah, you’ll find those perspectives. Let me know what points concern you and can give an honest response.
@@PhilipDosa I would like to be able to talk with you one on one if that’s possible?
Sure, send me an email at psdosa@gmail.com and we will find a way to talk.
@@PhilipDosai’d like to talk to you as well. i’m about to go and would say i’m pretty based in my theological understanding of who God is. it worries me about the whole “hearing Gods voice” because the Word of God is clear that the Word is His voice.
@@Keetoncharb1513 Shoot me an email and we can talk. You have been taught that the Bible is His voice. The reality is that the Bible doesn't teach that. It's hard to see that when it's all you have ever heard. That was me. Hopefully I can help explain it to you theologically because it is clear.
Hey Philip thank you for the honest assessment. Generally I believe envisioning God's leading is messy. It takes discernment and a certain amount of patience for that vision to coalesce into a path. This is true especially as volunteers begin to sense their role in that vision. Please don't apologize for the seeming incongruity incongruity
Knowing God and making God known was what we aimed for at youth with a mission, Flekkerøya, Norway back in the 90'ies. To know God is most important and with learning to walk like Jesus, to become more like Jesus is what really matters. Some becomes missionaries and staff and some live a 9-5 life and everyone can grow in k owing Fod and making Him known to those aeound us. We dont need to be "full time" for Jesus in YWAM. But we can all be full time christians exactly where we are, no matter where we are, God will use us.
Thanks Philip for this video. I was a mission builder with YWAM about 7 years ago for a whole year in Central America; now I’m retiring and want to find another “right” place to go. I’ve spent hours looking online for the right YWAM and nothing. I would love to hear your insight on choosing the right YWAM; please do that video.
Sounds good. What are you looking for? Was there something you were unable to find on the websites?
My wife and I are applying for the Beirut Lebanon dts in February. You should look into that one. We know the school leader if you want to connect with her and ask questions
I would like to find something with a music ministry focus that is not in the U.S. if there are such places. @@PhilipDosa
There is a great prayer room at the YWAM base in Amsterdam. You'd have to reach out to them to see what DTS focuses they have currently. My base here in the US has a great music program with prayer room training that takes you international on outreach. Their next music focused DTS is in January.
@@michealjoseph9943
Thanks Philip for the information. Where is your music based YWAM located? @@PhilipDosa
Thank you for posting this. I saw a lot of immature christians criti
You are welcome! Thank you for your comment.
I have a daughter who still can’t read her Bible because of her experience in ywam. I have not encountered anyone who did YWAM who doesn’t have grave concerns about the immaturity of the leadership and this resulting in an type of cult like experience. Please listen to those who have bad experiences to find out the real dangers. It is a very sad situation and a very dangerous place for our young people.
My daughter recommended knowing your Bible REALLY well if you go on ywam and having a spiritually mature mentor outside of ywam whom you can talk to every day about what is happening. I have so much more to say. Please don’t send your kids. Most of those that have attended are now no longer Christians and are needing counseling. I also know personally of one person who committed suicide because of his experience.
I would be very willing to talk with you about this further if you like.
So sorry for her experience. I believe she had a bad experience and it's not right that this happened to her.
I agree with the advice that you must know your Bible well. I think her experience is not the most common outcome. The reality is that so many young people do a DTS each year and a few have a bad experience. I don't think that this is the norm at all. I know hundreds of people personally who have had a great life-changing experience with YWAM.
I'm praying your daughter is able to find healing and truth in Jesus who will never let her down.
Man is sinful and flawed but our Lord and Savior is PERFECT! We live in a fallen world that desperately needs JESUS. He is the giver of life and Freedom.
I went to my DTS in January of 1998 and my relationship with Jesus has grown stronger and more stable since then. I was 19yrs old and now I'm almost 46yrs. My son will also go to YWAM when he Graduates HS soon.
I love Jesus with all my heart, mind and body and we will encounter extreme hardships in our lives but God is with us if we allow him to change us. Know God's heart and Make His heart known to a hurt and dying world.
@@PhilipDosa Typical. Zero ownership of the structural problems of targeting principally young and impressionable folks with no real oversight.
Like, how do you not hear yourself?? "...you must know you Bible well." Not as a response to external attack from the enemy, nor in general, but in response to your own organization.
I am very sorry to hear this and I just wanted to comment in agreement with you. I joined ywam and did a Dts in 1981 when I was 20 years of age. I am a Christian still but know many many people damaged and traumatised by their time in ywam. Young people are very impressionable. The isolation from friends and family, “open ness and brokenness” removing all mental privacy in order to bond you to a group which are basically strangers, the control of every aspect of eating sleeping thinking reacting and the deprivation of decent food or economic independence, the removal of any personal autonomy in the name of a higher power, these are in fact brain washing techniques. And so what happens is you no longer trust yourself or your ability to make decisions or even think. It is called cognitive dissonance. I invite anyone to look up these terms, including what constitutes a cult. People who join will be manipulated into asking friends and family for money ….for the organisation. They don’t pay anyone for work. Everyone donates their time, their work , their trust and their youth. My family wer told it was “nondenominational “, but that isn’t strictly true. Ywam is its own denomination.
What was the organization you said in your video that was similar to WYAM, (Wickliff...?)
Wycliffe Bible Translators is the ministry I mentioned.
Do you have any videos about good locations for taking kids to do short term Mission Building??
I don't.
I have the problem i leave and come Back many Times to YWAM I dont agree with certain things but at The same time I Like It ... I Wish we Could discuss about It at anytime
This is the struggle of working with people, especially in missions.
I was at the Salem, OR DTS 1978-79. I had a great experience in the program, but after was a complete cluster and borderlined on cult. Literally had to escape it with just the things I could grab. Later found out that the leader wasn’t sanctioned to even run the place. It hurt a lot of people at a critical time in their lives. I also believe their doctrine of moral government and prophetic shepherding is unBiblical. BTW, I was related by marriage to Floyd McClung, Jr. Who was a really great leader and asset to the organization.
I’m sorry for your negative experience.
I was with Ywam for 10 years ( India ).
If YWAM is locally independent and involves potentially immature leadership how is accountability managed? Be it in a mission trip or a major base. What are your safeguarding policies across the organisation? Who and how can people raise specific concerns?
Why is there a denigration of groups that require effective training and resourcing before sending people into complex cross cultural contexts? Preferring to have leaders on missions teams that may have very limited time in the faith; lack of awareness of the context travelling to; no training to handle the multiple issues that can arise with young adults in stressful new cultural situations...
I went on a Go Team as they were called at the time in mid 90s. We found out (despite being assured everything was organised on our behalf) that we had no insurance, at least our issue was restricted to baggage theft.
I've been planning to go to YWAM for almost a year now. I just watched and read a lot of things about the abuse and cult like activities going on so now I'm not quite sure if it's worth the risk/cost to go there. I am currently looking for people's review on Ywam Kona because that's the base I was called to. Your video is great, it's the first "positive" video I've seen here on youtube.
Most of the people who have taken the energy to film a video review had a bad expeience. Critical videos are more interesting/intriguing so those videos do better and TH-cam recommends them more. The honest reality is that the American church in its many denominations has some big issues/weaknesses. YWAM doesn't have the same issues, they have other issues. I think YWAM has so much to offer. I know many friends who did DTS at YWAM Kona and I'd be happy to connect you to them for their honest thoughts if that would help you.
In the end, don't let fear and the weaknesses of some stop you from obeying Jesus. No one measures up to the standard of the accuser except Jesus.
@@PhilipDosa oh my goodness, I would love to connect with them to hear more about their experience! Thank you so much
@@yeunique9533 send me a message on FB or email me at psdosa@gmail.com and I'll connect you.
You won't be sorry ever if that's where God's calling you too. You can never outgive God. Heaven is the only place where there will be no complaints.
I did my DTS at YWAM Kona and staff there as well as travel and minister internationally. It's a fantastic campus with so many great things happening there. Don't let the few TH-cam videos deter you. One of the most popular negative videos on TH-cam, a young woman complaining from her bedroom at home, I happen to know another young woman who did the same dts as her and said that the girl on that video was only there two weeks, and left. She was angry and hostile to the kind leaders and acted really crazy to everyone while there. My friend's daughter who was in that same DTS and finished it said ithe DTS complained about the most on TH-cam was actually amazing and loved it. There was another young woman who went public with lots of slander for YWAM from another place and campus but it turned out she was bi-polar with lots of mental problems and had loved YWAM for a few years until later when she turned away from the Lord and went off of her meds. Then, she posted lots of inflammatory things about YWAM and a lot of other Christian organizations as she hated Christians at that point. It's sad that these negative videos are causing people to not go when they feel called to go. I am sure some people have negative experiences like any church or organization or movement, but, I happen to personally know "the story behind the story" on 2 of these popular negative ywam videos/blogs that tell the whole story. As with any big decision, talk to the people on the ground at the location you feel called to go. Ask all of your questions, get answers, pray, seek Godly counsel. Talk to someone who went there. I did. It was and is wonderful. Perfect? no, nothing is. People are people and everyone has good and bad days. But, overall, nicest people in the world I have met are in YWAM full of kindness, love for God, the Bible and the least, the last and the lost. :) Hope this helps!
hello this Jabeth from Ethiopia how can i join YWAM?
Look for a YWAM base that suits you and apply for a dts.
were?@@PhilipDosa
Did you know my son Alexander Cosner at YWAM Hawaii in fall of 2017?
I didn’t!
I don't know him, but i'm sure we know some of the same people.
My experience is that bases like to hold on to their students and recruit as many of them as possible rather than launching them into what they feel called to do. I've also heard so many stories of abuse of authority by now that I am really wondering whether YWAM is really worth the cost/risk. Especially really young, inexperienced leaders are often incredibly controlling and manipulative because they are so out of their depth when leading schools. And my experience is that people get neglected emotionally (and sometimes physically) pretty extremely. You only get told to "pray about it" when you have any kind of problem rather rhan actively taking part in resolving it.
I still have YWAM friends but I am starting to question it more and more. I'm just trying to give you my perspective, maybe you could elaborate more on how you think leaders could/should be held accountable for their actions. As far as I have seen and heard, there is no structure in place to do that. I've just heard of and experienced too much abuse and neglect and confusion because of YWAM.
I hear you and I do not deny your claims. YWAM Is a large organization and I believe this is happening. I don't know to what extent. I know that these younger people do need to be lead well, being large and disorganized isn't a valid excuse. I also know that many in this generation are easy to offend and often dramatize what they experience. In no way does that mean that no one is experience legitimate abuse. They are. But many more are just getting burnt out because they didn't set boundries. I think its YWAM's job to set people up to hear God and take their own resposibility to do that and be willing to say no. I think that much of the problems you speak of exist in every type of church somewhere. It is a minority, but it is a real problem non-the-less and should be addressed. My best advice is to be careful! Maybe I need to make a video about keys to succeed in YWAM. I think armed with the right information is crucial. It would be great if we could just trust someone because they are a missionary or a Christian but that isn't the case.
Thank you for replying, I appreciate it!
That there is some kind of abuse somewhere within ywam, yes maybe that is inevitable. My concern is more with what happens when there is abuse. Not even necessarily abuse by the ywam leaders, but any kind of abuse/hurt. Say someone gets assaulted in lecture phase or on outreach (God forbid, but things like these do happen). How are the leaders going to react to that? Will mental health specialists (and other types of doctors/specialists if necessary) be brought in to take care of that person and the whole team? Will that be paid for by ywam?
Is there even an official ywam protocol to follow when anyone under their care gets harmed?
I get that people need to take responsibility for their own actions and set healthy boundaries. But they need to be taught that in the first place, especially if they enter ywam at 18/19 years old. They won't have the best boundaries coming into ywam if they haven't had the best upbringing or maybe have already been taught by their church that they need to serve until they pass out.
My experience is that ywam sometimes teaches healthy boundaries in word but not in deeds. Like they tell you that you can say no if it's too much but then when you do say no, people will come back asking for the same thing over and over again until you get tired of saying no.
Also what happens if someone draws healthy boundaries with a leader and that leader tells them that obedience is more important than your own boundaries? As in "you need to lay down your rights" and "die to yourself"? We know that these phrases are used often in ywam (incredibly overused or, to my point, used in a variety of unhealthy ways, imo). How is anyone supposed to react to that? How is anyone not going to be either extremely confused or extremely angry about that? Especially when obedience is tied to their faith so closely and they just want to please God? And yet it seems to be the same God who is telling them to draw healthier boundaries and take care of themselves?
What about a student who tells the leaders that he won't be able to do local outreach at night because he needs a full night's sleep to be able to function properly the next day? That his work duty is too much for him? Will he be kicked out of dts for not meeting the requirements even though he hadn't been told before coming what things were going to look like?
What are young, impressionable people supposed to do when they are told that going home for a loved one's wedding or funeral is a distraction to their call into missions? (I heard this one in my own dts and I have also heard it from people who were on staff in different places. Again, the idea of laying down your rights and dying to yourself).
Are students taught in dts or at least in staff training if and when it is wise to disobey your leaders?
And yes, maybe nowadays people do get offended more easily. But I think it cannot be ignored that the claims of abuse within ywam date back to the early 70s.
I am not trying to provoke you or say that ywam is all bad. I also know you can't answer for ywam as a whole. All I am saying is that from where I am standing right now, there are a few too many what ifs regarding ywam.
I really do appreciate your reply and also your videos - the way in which you let people participate in your personal journey is admirable.
And yes, I think a video about keys to succeed in YWAM would be very helpful!
Also sorry for the long reply previous to this one. I would be happy if you read it all but I also know you don't live in the comments section. ;)
@@alexi3223 I do read all my comments, even the long ones. Thanks for your comment. These are challenging topics but they are also important. We cannot ignore the longterm implications of even small decisions. To be completely honest, I don't know the solution. I think you and I would agree in many ways but not in every way. I've missed weddings and funerals because my obedience to go overseas to be a missionary. Sometimes it isn't possible.
When it comes to overworking with DTS, work duties and outreach, the student may be pressed past their comfort zone. They might be asked to do more than they feel is possible for them and maybe it isn't possible. But in the end the cost here is smaller. Students can be pushed too hard and can learn from these experiences. I do believe it is important that they have good leaders who help them process this and I think this is often the case. One key here is to not become easily offended. I know that language might trigger those who have become entrenched in their offense. But we must not allow the challenges and difficulties of life and missions become an excuse to blame others, even when they are wrong. Should we set boundries, demand that those boundries be honored, yes. This is apart of maturing. The consiquences aren't life and death.
When it comes to outreach and possible abuses that could happen from outside YWAM the answer isn't simple. These are of course tragic but not always avoidable when it comes to foreign missions. YWAM could make the choice to only do missions where everything is safe but they probably wouldn't make it very far. The answer is not always to remove the possibility of danger but to approach it responsibly. This is not always straight-forward. When these students make the decision to come on these outreaches they are taking certain risks.
If I did make a video I would suggest individuals having a support structure outside YWAM, most often through the local church. I think parents should be involved, even when it is regards to their 18+ children. They are often a great source of wisdom. The area the YWAM operates in isn't safe. Missions isn't church camp. These dangers must be approached soberly. There is a reason that YWAM doesn't accept younger students. These students are the age of enlisted soldiers, and they are signing up for missions. I don't believe the danger is inherant to YWAM, but it true of people and missions. The honest truth is that there are bad leaders in YWAM as well as in any other missions organization. And there are no perfect leaders. And imperfection in leaders isn't an excuse to ignore their leadership. Of course we must pray and seek counsel to determine if the issues we are facing are significant enough to leave. In many cases people should leave. I'm afraid this is true of churches and pastors as much as missionaries. Do we abandon Christianity? No we fight to solve these problems with character and faithfulness where God has called us. Let me know your thoughts.
For those who have been hurt by YWAM or the church, I suggest a careful consideration of the matters in the counsel of someone who has completed their own journey of healing. The enemy lurks in these places hoping to keep them in unforgiveness, hurt and blame. God seeks to bring healing and restoration. The gospel is the story of healing from hurt, not preventing hurt. Jesus showed us that his purpose was to suffer well trusting God, not to eliminate suffering. This is not a blank get-out-of-jail-free card for those resposible for that hurt. But it is the pathway to freedom for those that were hurt.
I do want to reply to you, I am just very ill and haven't had the strength to do so.
Just a couple of things... not enforcing healthy boundaries can be a life or death thing for many, many people with pre-existing conditions, be they physical or mental.
Also, I agree that DTS is not church camp. But then why the heck is it advertised as this cool adventure type thing, why is there no warning to not enter it ig you don't feel up to a real life challenge. Never have I seen YWAM advertising that says "you could seriously get hurt on this trip, so think twice about joining".
It's not about eliminating the danger, I never said that. You didn't answer most of my direct questions like "is there a protocol to follow in case of abuse, inside or outside the base?"
Also, if YWAM work is so challenging and can be dangerous and all of that, why is there no proper training in place? Three months of dts hardly qualify a teenager to go to a closed country or a red light area to do effective missions while not getting hurt. And there is no entry bar, except maybe that you shouldn't be suicidal. That's a very, very low entry bar to join missions in any case.
Welp, these are just w few thoughts of the many that I could write down.
I have no strength now but if you want to you could give me your e-mail address so we can continue this conversation some time. I'd like to do that. Let me know.
In light of 1 Timothy 3:1-16, how do you view leadership in YWAM as Paul directs leaders to be mature?
That's a really good question. I would agree that they should be mature. We see that Paul's co-laborers often failed him and made mistakes. We should certainly hold the highest expectation on leaders, but the question is how do we enforce this expectation, and the answer is that it is messier than we might want. The question is not whether we are happy but whether God is. We must all give account for that which we steward. So each leader, whether church or YWAM should take this reality seriously.
@@PhilipDosa thanks for responding, but I’m not sure that answers the question. I don’t think mistakes = immaturity. But the word in 1 Timothy is fairly clear. I’d argue as well the pastoral epistles outline qualifications for leaders, all other qualifications aside, maturity is listed.
So knowing that many including yourself have said YWAM leaders can be or may be immature, how is it then ok to have those people in leadership positions when the word says not to?
@@zakaryk9662 It's not OK for a leader to be immature. But to bring some nuance into the conversation, those attributes of leaders were specifically for elders and deacons. We have lots of middle and upper-level leaders who aren't given leadership quickly. I would argue that the qualifications for elders and deacons show the level of discipleship present in Paul's day that is largely absent today, even from the leaders of most churches and ministries. But we often disqualify people because they aren't perfect from engaging in the work of God. That sounds safe, but are we reflecting the heart of God? Some of the immaturity I am talking about is lower level leadership of outreaches for example. This is closer to Jesus sending out the 72 in groups of two. These disciples were clearly not ready yet. From Judas to Peter there were many mistakes in their future. But Jesus sent them out anyway. We must realize the nuance in this conversation.
@@PhilipDosa While I agree with the application of the scripture, I think it is unwise to send knowingly unprepared youth into the world and to give them a level of spiritual authority over other even more immature, young, and impressionable people.
It sounds to me like they are being sent out unprepared to share the gospel of which they are immature.
Now the disciples are the disciples, they were given supernatural authority by Jesus for a specific purpose for a specific time. Surely you wouldn’t agree that a descriptive passage of scripture can be used to prescribe a way of running a ministry?
Forgive me if it sounds harsh, I’ve been on mission internationally for 5 years, and I’ve seen inexperienced, and immature people come to share the gospel from all over the world. They do so with a good intention but end up doing more harm than good.
Their theology and doctrine are not well formed and articulated. Their inability to minister cross culturally hurts and doesn’t help (I’m 5 years in and only just settling into the nuances of local culture).
I hope that you would not want to “experiment” in unreached people with young immature believes.
@@zakaryk9662 You are making an assumption on God's level of risk tolerance. This is a matter of faith in God's ability to use weak people. You assume that the disciples were super human. James says (5:17) that Elijah was just a man, like you and I. I don't believe the disciples were anything other than normal humans. What scripture do you have that elevates them from today's 18 year old? This was certainly not prescribed anywhere in scripture. They were chosen because of their low social status and lack of education (Acts 4:13). You are assuming that lack of education and longevity is enough to keep people from being used by God. I don't disagree that at times this looks ineffective from an outside perspective. But we don't have what we need to judge. One of the main things missing is time. Don't rip up the crops too soon because you might misjudge which is wheat and which is a weed. Paul said "don't judge before the appointed time" and said he himself reject man's judgement and didn't give much weight to a court of men's opinions. (1 Cor. 4) He didn't even give himself a pass based on a cleared conscience. He instead looked to God. Did this make him reckless? No, he said that everyone must be a good steward and be careful how he builds. (1 Cor. 3) But in the end, what God would disclose in the content of man's hearts. (1 Cor. 4:5) God is not using us because we are so talented or culturally acustomed, but because we are walking in obedience to him by faith. Unless the Lord builds the house, those who labor, labor in vain. (Psalm 128:1). Our western attitude is that is our job to judge, and make safe, and this actually slows down the work of God. The world is dying without Jesus and our hope is God, not men and their systems and failsafes. Thank you for your comments, this has been a good conversation. Open to your thoughts if I am missing something.
As someone who was in YWAM for 4 years and then left because I was not biblically equipped to do overseas missions, my concern with what you have shared and I mean this with all respect because yes YWAM is doing good things due to the sovereignty of God. But when we look at the bible, is it wise to be sending very young, spiritually immature believers into countries to start churches, missions organizations, and ministries? I see students who are biblically illiterate and then cling to zealous, outward appearance in "doing" for the Lord through emotionalism, experiences and mystic teaching. I see students who have good but big vision and then get stuck because they are not equipped for what they "feel" God is calling them to. I see unbiblical teachings that cause confusion and concern for young believers. Man has responsibility in making choices in the moral will of God. If students don't understand that or if they are not rooted in sound biblical doctrine/systematic theology, their decision making aka "I heard from God" will come from a skewed perspective of who God is and their decisions wont be wise. Luckily I left and was able to go study the bible at school. I would encourage you as a leader because that's where I was, to take a deep look into the roots of the theology of YWAM and ask yourself the hard questions. To open your bible and do the hard work because a lot of what YWAM is teaching is not good and has caused a lot of damage not only in my life but the lives of thousands of people. When we add or take away from the Gospel, it is not a saving message. When we teach things that are idolatry, it is not a saving message. When we teach experience, it is not a saving message. If we are called to "Go and make Disciples", and that's the point of DTS, then we need to be making mature, bibilically sound, spiritually reverent, disciplined, biblically literate, stable, steadfast and free by grace disciples.
Thank you for your comment. I can see you disagree but are being respectful. I have looked into the theology and teaching of YWAM and have found it very solid. I suggestion reading Values Matter. I found the YWAM locations I have staffed with don't execute these values perfectly, but there isn't anything wrong with the values. They are very solid and Biblical.
My comments with you keep getting deleted. Why is that?
I'm seeing your comments. You mention a comment that you found concerning from me on this video. I am looking for it to read what i wrote and see if I made a mistake that I need to correct. Can you comment on it?
Given the huge accusations of spiritual abuse, this type of approach needs to be brought under scrutiny. One cannot use scripture to go around doing things in decency and order. Nor can you twist scripture to go around the proper way Biblical Leadership is established. Yes its about Bible knowledge, organization, people management, spiritual development, structured policies, so everyone is not doing their own thing, and greatly, accountability. Accusations of cursing, manipulation, telling young people not to share their experiences with family and friends, sounds very cultic.Apostle Paul laid out in detail the structure of any so called Christian organization. I've videos from many young people who suffered spiritual abuse. That along with you've stated here, is why I will not be recommending this organization to our youth and young adult missions ministry.
The horror, the horror.
I watched this earlier today, and I can't remember specifics right now. But you believe things that are untrue. And you have no idea, because all you know is what they have brainwashed you to believe. You need to get out and get real biblical counsel. Which reminds me, I think one of the things you said was that leaders don't have degrees or certain requirements...which is not a good thing. Somebody needs to bear a compass to keep things right. That compass is true biblical knowledge and rightly divided Word.
The reason some people have a "bad experience" is because some staff are abusive. Then you have young kids coming in who know more about the Bible than their leaders, and their leaders try to brainwash them with false doctrine. If they were at home visiting a church, they could not go back. But the YWAM/Circuit Riders way is to isolate you and abuse you until you act like you have fallen into line. You are trapped there. This same thing actually happened at IHOP where the girl was murdered, if you read that story. How is this same behavior happening in so many of these same "movement" circles?
I believe you are potentially abusing others because of what you believe and how I know the program works. You might not even realize it. You are participating in a movement within a movement called New Apostolic Reformation (NAR). YWAM promotes and utilizes false teachers who are NAR proponents (they do not admit to being part of NAR because they know it's a negative connotation).
I'm sorry, but you 100% believe and promote false doctrine. The people who don't have a problem at YWAM are learning the same false doctrine at their churches, so it isn't new and confusing to them. They are more likely to get along fine, not questioning anything, and not pushing back. You literally are trying to convert people away from God and don't even know it.
"It's focus on young people." Because that's Bible. Who focuses on the young? Who?
Jesus picked young disciples. Paul has Timothy. David was young, so was Jeremiah and Joshua. Lots of examples of God using young people.
@@PhilipDosa My rhetorical question, "who focuses on young people?" was meant to underscore the cultish aspect of YWAM. Cults often target the young, because they lack information and life experience. Also they're innocent. It's sad to see the shock when they realize they gave their time and youth to manipulators.
When GOD chooses a person, young or old, it's with fearful admonitions toward holiness and obedience. To HIM.
YWAM has little transparency or accountability.
The Bible also gives us clear instructions on the requirements for ministry. Paul tells Timothy to let no one despise his youth, but commands Titus that he appoint elders according to a rather severe set of characteristics.
May time and truth expose YWAM and all organizations like it. "A little leaven infects the whole."
If you think god is talking to you, that's called schizophrenia. See a professional ASAP.