Cultish: Looking Into YWAM (Youth With A Mission) - Part 1
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 มี.ค. 2022
- Join us as we begin the first chapter of our long awaited series on YWAM (Youth With A Mission) as we talk with Haley & Alex who are 2 former students of YWAM. Are there aspects of YWAM that are cultish or best case scenario problematic? Is it fair to label YWAM as a definitive cult? We cover this and a lot other issues in the 1st part of this series and hope for this to be a catalyst for further conversation.
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Can you look into The Door CFM (Christian fellowship ministries) they also go by the potters house (not associated with Td Jakes) they are a big cult I was involved in at one time
Cultish should go deeper into it's look into YWAM. This doesn't even broach the tip of the iceberg.
I was with YWAM from 2016-2020. While with YWAM I took a 9 month Bible school where we studied the Bible inductively, reading each book at least 5 times. We had teachers come from different nations, denominations, and theological viewpoints. After that 9 month school o took a 3 month school of apologetics in which we each did a project/talk on a apologetic topic. I chose Mormonism. That’s how I found apologia studios on TH-cam. I know people have had some weird experiences while with YWAM, but I’m very thankful for my time with them. The opportunity to study the Bible for 9 months and then get equipped in apologetic training was priceless. I wish everyone that went through YWAM would take the 9 month Bible school I did.
I can’t figure out how to edit my comment. I posted it too early. I definitely think YWAM has weaknesses and issues. But I don’t think Lauren Cunningham ever set out to start a cult and I don’t think he’s trying to run one now. I think the gospel is a burden on his heart and he wants to see the gospel in the hands of every nation in their native tongue. I think that’s awesome. All that being said I wish there was more of an effort to have students and staff grounded in the word. As students of our Bible school we were kinda on the “outside” of the base. We saw a lot of critiques of YWAM while studying the Bible. Our staff never shut us down for these critiques, they welcomed them and encouraged us to bring change and correction. During my time I was a student and a staff of various schools. They have issues but I wouldn’t call them a cult. I have heard of some YWAM bases turning into a cult, and from what I have heard Lauren cut them off from being apart of YWAM. I value my time with YWAM, I came out having a better understanding of the Bible and with good apologetic tools.
Yes I totally agree.
At the same time, in contrast to when I was personally in YWAM, we saw a YWAM staff member with ten years experience join the Mormon Church that's just how little, unsolidified of a theological training and foundation some people can have in YWAM despite your positive, growing experiences. YWAM training isn't accredited, it shouldn't be contrast and comparative to an accredited Bible school or post graduate seminary training.
Hi I found this comment very interesting, that you went through such intensive biblical learning and ended up Mormon. So to learn more I listened to your testimony that you have on your yt channel, countering Mormonism with the Gospel. Now I’m so confused as to whether you are Mormon or not?
I think she means that she chose Mormonism as her topic.
As someone who was born into a YWAM young mothers home, adopted into a core YWAM family and spent my entire life in the missions field I can tell you with absolute certainty that you didn’t even scratch the surface with these two. They eluded to some of the lower level DTS student issues of the group but those are nothing compared to the deeper full time staff problems. Many have been listed in the comments.
I was with YWAM as a new Christian from 1990 til around 1997 in Australia. We all went to our own regular church on Sunday, YWAM was never presented as a church on its own. Local pastors came in and taught on different topics during our DTS, and we were always working /ministering with many churches across the city. Being young and keen to seek God always means you are vulnerable, I think the leadership were all well intentioned and did their best. However, YWAM is saturated with charismatic and Pentecostal influence, and lacks the depth of essential biblical theology and so is open to speculation and distortion. God was gracious to me and imparted many good lessons in life and about Himself, but many aspects of YWAM led me to confusion and error. To be fair though, I think there are a significant amount of Christians out there who don't understand the gospel or their Bibles very well, so YWAM is symptomatic of a general Christian malaise.
Yeah, the interdenominational and diverse aspect is a bit of a fraud. There's a natural self sorting that happens where's it's mostly people from charismatic backgrounds who are attracted to YWAM in the first place
@@artemthetrain14 100%. The loudest and most charismatic personalities thrived in that eco system.
YWAM has changed considerably since 1990 - 1997. That's 25 years ago since you left. YWAM doesn't even have the same leadership I had for my DTS, Schools and I left just five years ago. I did not have a good experience with YWAM at all. It was cultish, controlling, abusive, and leadership immature and insecure.
@@burningheartsfl7128
@@ronniedanger1 My Base had a nickname for the less charismatic. The Base Director literally called them on several occasions: "MacArthurites." Now, regardless of what a person thinks about John MacArthur the Base Director was calling people this in the derogatory sense of this label. So, when YWAM people talk about YWAM respecting all backgrounds, beliefs, is nondenominational... THAT'S TOTAL B.S. Sure, YWAM will accept students from different backgrounds but it has every intention of making people what THEY want. That's why YWAM talks so much within itself about "replicating it's DNA" in people. Yeah, basically making people charismatics, and other things too. I don't care as much that YWAM is charismatic, it's just not being honest or fully transparent with people. YWAM is very duplicitous in nature.
Jeremih I’m so impressed that you are handling this subject so sensitively and maturely
In my experience, you really have to examine each Base on its own. It’s the definition of a distributed organization. Having been involved in multiple bases over the course of two decades, I can say, it’s a complex organization that really does resist generalizations.
Loren Cunningham has said about YWAM being so decentralized that even he admittedly doesn't know what all is going on in YWAM on a daily basis. He even jokes that GOD doesn't know what all is going on in YWAM on a daily basis. THAT'S NOT A GOOD THING. In my opinion, having experience with YWAM too, there is an incredible need for some structure, but more importantly YWAM lacks accountability, and really is when it comes down to it not accountable to anyone. I've heard of people going to their Bases about problems, and being told simply to stop being divisive or to basically stop contacting or further communications with them as a Base. That's ridiculous.
@@mattmercer7607 Loren is a false prophet and teacher. His seven mountain mandate is not Biblical.
@@mattmercer7607 I wholeheartedly agree with that you’re saying and know I could get flak for what I’ll even comment here, I was at a YWAM base where they did have a board of directors over the base directors of the specific location who were suppose to keep them accountable but sadly if you had any issues or concerns you, unless you were a friend of the board of director members, you had no other regional, national or international accountability you could speak to, to my knowledge. I could never find any of their contact info anyplace online, even the particular YWAM base’s website. I had concerned friends try to look up information and couldn’t find anything which was deeply disturbing to hear. I learned too some board of director members, either were friends with the base directors for years and years or were both board of directors and base directors at my location. So with some circumstances if you did bring up a concern, well if you were a Board member and someone like me brings up issues about base leadership …who would you believe, the base director you’ve been friends with for years or the guy you just showed up a few months ago?
I was exposed to a few other bases to my short time with the organization and couldn’t tell you how accountability was arranged at each place. Your experience with leadership really does come down to individual place…. Especially if you’re a staff at a YWAM base. It could either be a healthy place or disturbingly unhealthy.
How so if YWAM has DNA replicable and consisting of 18 Foundational Values? I hear YWAM say this all the time that it's decentralized, and base to base a person must do their research. But, what about the Foundational Values that govern Bases and YWAM staff and students as a movement and still systematically there can and is a lot of BS and garbage that YWAM really does need reformed and changed. Instead, I hear too many YWAMers saying it's mostly good and "pats on the back" for mostly a good job in each of our mere opinions to what we think we know but don't. My own YWAM outreach leader was sleeping and hooking up with staff and students. I was there, thought everything was OK, and had no idea. Many of us didn't know. It wasn't for a couple of years before this leader was caught and found out. His wife travelled with us all on outreaches. They are now divorced, and everything that leader built imploded and was destroyed. But, what I thought I knew and how things were going within our Team was furthest from the truth. Fact is, we don't know and many within have no clue whether people do their research or examine a Base or not.
I went to the first DTS in Salem, OR in 1978-79. It damaged me both emotionally and spiritually, and took me many years to recover from my experience. After I completed my DTS, my then fiancé stayed in Salem and I went home. They talked me into coming back to do a work/study program which was basically me working and giving my money to the base. The things leadership did to people based on the leadership model was nothing short of abusive. Finally after a big confrontation between my fiancé and the head of the base, we literally escaped with whatever possessions we could grab and throw into the car.
I did my DTS a long long time ago in Honolulu, Hawaii when Danny Lehman was in charge and I had a great experience. I was a new believer at the time and grew and learned a lot. I grew in the Lord and learned about evangelism, shared the gospel in India and made friends for a life time. I stayed on staff after my class was over and learned to work with others on base and grow into my gifting of hospitality. No one place is perfect but I’m sad that some people think that YWAM is a cult.
It's a cult.
I know of some people who say they experienced abuse under the leadership of Danny in HI.
I did DTS in Honolulu in the fall 1983 (ya, that long ago). Danny was the base leader then. I had a great experience, not without some bumps along the way. There's bumps along the way because there are people involved - People just like you and me and all of us. Explain to me a Christian organization, or a school, or a place you have worked, or part of your family, or a relationship you have been in, or ___________ (you fill in the blank) where there are not bumps in the road and bruises involved. That is a normal part of life - accept the fact that it likely comes with the territory. NOOOOOOOWWWWW ..... if you're involved in an organization where there is emotional leverage pulling, manipulation, heavy criticisim, lots of put downs, ego struggles involved, ect, then we all have something to raise our eyes about, take note of, pray and act! For many years YWAM was very beloved to me. Now after much listening to other peoples stories I have a very "antenna up" attitude with them - but I have that with MANY churches and organizations now, so ...... I'm not into referring to YWAM as a cult. I believe it depends on what base you would be at and how they operate.
Just started listening -been wanting this one forever!
Their so-called "Openness and Brokenness" sessions were super weird, even disturbing. Without going into any detail, one time a guy was somehow guilted into confessing stuff about incest in his immediate family. I so remember how badly it messed with my head. Because of this, their psychological manipulation tactics, and sheer lack of leadership accountability, YWAM may not be an extremely dangerous, e.g., destructive, cult, but it definitely has a plethora of cultish elements in it. Another reason that made me leave was their discriminatory financial practices. But that deserves a different conversation altogether. I was a YWAMer from 1998 to 2003.
I’m a current YWAM affiliate. I can say that none of the spiritual abuses talked about in this video took place in my DTS. Yes, YWAM is not “reformed” and operates as a generally charismatic organization, but not without reason. Time after time, God is using these young people to heal the blind, deaf, and lame. Though YWAM helps people discern the Lord’s voice, we were taught that the “word” you hear from the Lord is ALWAYS subject to Scripture.
Though it is not “reformed”, YWAM is where I became rooted in Scripture. Every speaker that came to our school emphasized one thing…GET ROOTED IN THE WORD OF GOD. Our school leader even explained that cults get started when people stop studying the Word.
All issues with YWAM that I have seen or heard of stem from one thing…immaturity. YWAM is cross cultural, interdenominational, and spread across the whole world. Every base, school, and outreach is different. When you take young believers from all different backgrounds, you are bound to have issues arise. The Great Commission is messy. We trust the Holy Ghost to help us all!
Feel free to ask me questions.
"Though YWAM helps people discern the Lord’s voice, we were taught that the 'word' you hear from the Lord is ALWAYS subject to Scripture."
Just a heads-up to anyone reading this that subjecting an idea or something you "heard" from God to Scripture does not make that idea biblical; this is a distinction that I failed to grasp and really kept me from developing a biblical worldview for a long time.
Young believers should grow in a local Church under their elders. Not mess around and call it the Great Commission.
This is the argument I hear all the time. Basically, what I've realized is that this is about how you interpret scripture. If one doesn't know the correct meaning in context of Scripture, you will draw faulty conclusions or implications.
Example: John 10:27 "My sheep listen to My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me". Charismatics would say this is proof that the Bible says God hears me/us! This is wrong bc this verse in it context is talking about the effectual call of God. It's about Salvation; it's about eternal life. Read the verses before and after.
Have you witnessed a healing first hand? I have seen friends healed, but never in the circumstances set up by YWAM or any other Charismatic/Apostolic setting like laying on of hands.
@@nilzor thanks for the reply. This is an important topic. Yes, discipleship under local eldership is a necessity.
Unfortunately, the American Church now tends to have less of a focus on individual accountability and training under eldership. That being said, a lot of YWAM students simply don’t have that structure available to them. Even if they do (and are being actively discipled under eldership), going on a 6-month trip (DTS) is not being disobedient to the local church model.
But here’s where we need to be careful…
DTS trains students to read and pray daily, develop a biblical worldview, live a life of purity, reject worldly culture, serve others, and be ready to articulate the gospel, etc…but because that involves praying for the sick and trying to discern the leading of the Holy Spirit we should call that “messing around”?
A lot of YWAM students are straight out of high school (taking a gap year). A DTS before entering the world of debauchery of a 4 year college is an incredible blessing. I sure wish that I shook off cultural Christianity and learned that Christ was a King who demands obedience and full submission BEFORE I was exposed to the “freedom” of the college experience.
Finally, Finally, Finally! I went to YWAM Kona NE Asia DTS in 2018. What I tell people is that YWAM was a great experience socially but the worst theology I've experienced.
Agreed. YWAM is some of the worst, bad theology I've heard in 25 years a Christ follower. I attended YWAM for School Training six years ago.
Went to Maui and it was traumatic to say the least. Total spiritual abuse. No one talks about this and the pain and healing that needs to be done after
Heck YES! Worst theology I've ever heard as well! Agree 100% And, I've done a Bachelors of Science in Bible, and two post graduate Master's degrees in Seminary all before joining the YWAM Y-SCAM. I think YWAM cares more about students who owe them dues for outreach or money uncollected; than they do about good, sound systematic theology and doctrine.
I've been to many a YWAM event and helped out with schools and missions projects, though I am not a YWAM-er. I've been to a few different bases all around the world, mostly in different parts of Asia and the USA. The biggest thing that rings true with me is every base has a completely different feel and set of doctrines they like to follow based on who is the director in the base. That is VERY important to note about all of this. No, I don't think YWAM as a whole is a cult and I don't think that's what anyone is saying here in this podcast. People coming into this comment section 'hot' need to slow down a bit and really listen to what is being said in this conversation. Some of the bases I visited, I was really comfortable and I had no theological turmoil, other bases really tested my knowledge and kept me on my guard at time. Boy, do I have some crazy stories and conversations! The social pressure was also felt and felt quite often. But, it all has to do with the maturity of the Staff, Students and their own theological backgrounds with it being a non-denominational organization. I was thinking about taking a DTS to join up for more projects, but my experiences and theology told me that it might be a pretty hard time. It's very important to know which base you are going to and what they believe! All of my best friends, that I still talk to today around the world, are all currently active in YWAM, but they have also had experiences that they don't always agree with. However, they know the mission of the Gospel and it's about bringing it to the nations of the world. I can't speak for all the schools and bases though, that is for sure. Amazing episode, I can't wait for the next part with the staffer! Also, fun fact, the reason I was able to eventually find my way to Apologia was through a friend I made on one of my YWAM trips, I am truly grateful for that!
Okay, so this ended up being super long. But I've experienced so much of what is discussed here and could have typed a lot more!
I am a second generation former YWAM'er. Some bases are certainly "better" than others im sure. I was pretty much raised in a YWAM setting and was surrounded by a bunch of great people who love the Lord.
But one issues that always seems to plauge YWAM (in my experience) is the local leadership. My parents left YWAM due to this issue. It was a particularly large issue at their main campus in Kona (where I did my DTS). When you have a bunch leaders who are 19 (some new Christians) leading an outreach in a 3rd world country it can really cause problems. Not to mention creating down right dangerous situations for the students. My wife (then romantic interest) got typhoid in Myanmar and they didn't even take her to a hospital. She was deathly I'll and all the leader did was post on FB asking people to pray.
I also had experiences where leaders would get weird when you asked questions related to scripture. One time me and a classmate were reading in Ezekiel I think and we wanted to ask our class leader what he thought about a certain passage. All he said was "why does it matter?" I think I kind of accepted it at the time bit it sure was discouraging to hear his answer.
There was also a big issue with how the campus handled finances. For a DTS in Kona (in 2012) it cost $10k for 6 months. Most students don't have the full amount paid by the time they get to Kona and YWAM sets up a service where friends/family can sned money to the student through the organization. Here is the thing though - once a student reaches that $10k goal, they no longer get money people send them. It goes into some pool where it is used on who knows what. My now wife had family sending her money. She never received it, and never was told about it. It wasn't small amounts of money her family was sending either.
There is also a lot of "worldliness" there as well. Cory Asbury visited the campus to do some worship one night and everyone was idolizing him. It was weird.
I also had a pretty intense "slain in the spirit" experience that is still hard for me to explain. There was some lady who (in my own words) would be considered a Holy Spirit specialist. She claimed to have this ability or "anointing" to cause slaying experiences. During on of these sessions, she put her hands on me to pray and I went down. Not instantly though. It was like I was able to control it but if I just let go (as we were taught to) then the whole experience happened. Tingles in the body, speaking in "tongues" and the feeling of being intoxicated. I remained a charismatic for several years after this the only purpose it served was making me feel better about my self. Almost like bragging rights as to how spiritual I am. There was no real value to it. It looked more like a scene from the Wild Wild country than from scripture. There is a lot of NAR type theology attached to a lot of what was taught there.
All that being said - I still know a lot of individuals in the YWAM sphere who are devout Christians. There were some good speakers and leaders on my DTS as well. But they seemed to be the exception to the rule.
Sounds like your intoxication experience was the Kundalini Spirit! The theft of your wife's money is because YWAM believes you have no rights and they can take anything they want from you and proves they are a cult.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience with this organization. It really helps to be a good supplement to this video.
This was really helpful! Thank you. I didn't find the video proved it was a "cult" so much as just poor management/leadership issues, but the mishandling and lack of transparency of funds and hyper-charismatic atmosphere leads to a different picture.
Hi, I am curious as to why you put tongues in quotation marks as if it were not real? It is seen in Acts 2,8,10,11 and 19 as well as 1 Corinthians 12 and 1 Corinthians 14. There are way more Bible verses on tongues than on wives submitting to husbands, yet some people will fill libraries with books on the latter and ignore the former. Your thoughts?
@@scraytonify1 The reason for the quotations is because the kind of tongues practiced in YWAM Kona and most of the charismatic movement is nothing close to what is described for us in scripture. We read that it didn't happen often, it always needed to be interpreted, and only a couple of people were permitted to speak in a tongue in any given service. Plus the primary example was alway in an actual earthly language. And it was 100% an act of the spirit.
What I saw was chaotic gibberish being spoken buy everyone all at once with no restraint. There was never a clear purpose to it and certainly no interpretation.
There is a lot more to say about it but I'll just leave a link that briefly covers wat a biblical view of tongues were.
www.gracechurch.org/about/distinctives/gift-of-tongues
Don't know too much about YWAM but had couple friends that went on mission trip with them for couple months. My friends are more towards the reformed side and so when they shared that it isn't God's will for every person with a disease or illness to be healed at right at that spot, people in their team were very surprised. They shared that their theology was a bit iffy at times. I was shocked that at their mission conference "The Send," they invited people like Benny Hinn and Todd White to preach. That was a red flag for me.
YWAM has a lot of red flags.
This was a bust for me the case was not made. A lot of backtracking from the interviewees.
The story shared at approx 39:00 gave me goosebumps. Reminded me so much of an incident I had during my internships at Teen Mania.
YWAM and Teen Mania have some things in common. Definitely. In Tyler, Texas the properties of Teen Mania and YWAM Tyler are adjacent right next door to each other there in East Texas.
@@burningheartsfl7128 yeah, used to be.
This was really interesting. I did my DTS (and staffed/led schools there for nearly 4 years), in Hawaii, and have MANY thoughts on ywam Kona since I’ve left. Every base is different, but I personally believe that YWAM Kona is one of the most toxic and problematic bases. I was raised in YWAM, and have lived at many different wonderful bases. However my experience at the Kona base really messed me up in many ways. I could say a few great things about my experience, but the bad definitely out-weighs the good.
One aspect of this sounds really common. It shows up a lot in the group I've been trying to expose. That whole thing of doubting what the leaders tell you to do. It is awful how they talk like listening to God, but you have to obey them. They talk one way and practice another. The hypocrisy that always comes up in these communities or cults.
Knowing what is a cult helps prevent us to join one!
True
And most people don’t know they were in a cult until after they left.
This sounds exactly like the Vineyard. I grew up with yearly trips called “Oasis” to the main Vineyard “Cooper Rd Vineyard” in Columbus Ohio. Opening up your heart and confessing, demons being “cast out”, forcing a prophetic vision. Kinda scares me how it sounds now that I’m no longer there. My sister has had sleep paralysis after a strange experience at one of those events.
I used to have sleep paralysis and night terrors due to drug use. I was also in the Roman Catholic church. All that stopped when The Lord saved me. Be sure to share the Gospel with clarity with her. The Holy Spirit drove all that stuff right out of me.
Many YWAM Bases are immersed in the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) Movement of Bethel and IHOP.
My husband and I are former YWAM'ers, having been on staff with YWAM New Orleans for a few years. It really depends on which base you are at, who's in leadership at the time, etc. All in all, our experience has been a huge blessing, as well as our children who chose to do schooling and join staff for a time. I definitely do not see them as a cult. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water!❤
I am glad Cultish are dealing with YWAM though from trawling some of the comments below, it's not a full blown cult in the strict sense but there are obviously issues of concern. I belong to a City Mission here in the UK, we used to have groups of YWAM youngsters come for a week from the UK base before they embarked for their main mission location. They would help out with our practical projects and join us for street evangelism and door to door visitation. They were from mainly the U.S and Canada. My abiding memory is that of some young people who had no real evidence of saving grace, and no real grasp of the gospel. One or two were on the mission trip because a parent had thought it was a great idea. Some however were clearly converted and were very focused on Christ and his word. So a mixed bag. One or two of the team leaders had some strange vocabulary and ideas which I guess were rooted in NAR type thinking. Looking forward to hearing more. Many thanks.
I am a former YWAM staff and student. And truth be told, I really cannot remember the gospel in YWAM ever really being preached. Even on outreach and missions trips. Much of YWAM really is just recruitment of people to do training, schools, and to join YWAM as staff and students. Much about YWAM has very little to do the preaching the gospel and about proclamation of biblical foundation, systematic theology and truths! Much of YWAM is about recruitment of churches to support it, and youth, students to join it. Our YWAM Base needed staff and so decided to start a Discipleship Training School so that we could recruit future staff from students. The basis of that decision is in itself not about personal development or growth when Bases are doing THAT. Many think they have a good idea about YWAM but really do not unless spending several years in YWAM to see what it is really about. And what YWAM is really all about is not good, about missions, the Gospel, true discipleship etc.
My parents went to the Kona training in the 70s. We were with YWAM for at least a year. They got placed to run a Baptist Student Center with the university. I don’t recall there being anything cultish, but my parents ended up leaving due to some difference in theology. They never said it was a cult. They ended up getting involved with starting a Christian school with some missionary friends outside of YWAM. I have friends who still go on mission troops with YWAM. They have a great experience witnessing.
A lot has changed in YWAM since the 70's ... and not in a good way. YWAM is so big (1,100+ locations) that top leadership don't even know themselves whether good or bad what all is going on in YWAM on a regular, routine, daily basis. And, to make matters worse with being decentralized there is not clear pathway or system of accountability with problems on a micro or macro level. It is always good to hear of people who left YWAM and didn't stay long term. YWAM gets much worse beyond the super expensive entry level DTS people do to get their foot in the door to be involved with YWAM.
I really appreciate Cultish because it has helped open my eyes up to what other Christians experience. I was raised in a small town that was about an hour from the nearest big city. We didn’t have exposure to these large Christian organizations. I have way more experience with Mormons and JW than with mega churches, YWAM, or any other big national or international church or movement except old school denominations like UMC and Lutherans. Even in my thirties I have very little exposure to these different experiences, hearing what others have seen and been taught is very eye opening and has really helped me have more empathy for my brothers and sisters in Christ. It’s also helped me realize that I haven’t been missing out on much not being plugged in to the “Christian Culture” of the moment.
I did my DTS in 2010-2011 and my parents prepared me ahead of time for some of the “out there” theological views. That being the case, I wasn’t drawn in by events that were solely experiential. Apart from that, I grew leaps and bounds and had a life changing encounter with the Lord that happened in a private space and without any external prompting. I thank God for my time there. Like anything else, I believe we need to go in with an apologetics mind… able to grow in our discernment to not be drawn into wrong thinking but also not throwing out an imperfect organization’s goal to prepare young people to grow in their faith and be able to share it with others.
Just listened to you guys on Elisa Childers. I pictured the guy with the glasses completely differently.
The stuff mentioned in this episode is good for an opener for sure. Thanks to everyone who stepped up to share.
It’s definitely the decentralization or complete lack of accountability if you will, that is at the core of the dark side. No matter what base you go to the chain of command, if it works at all, has a limit. And the bottleneck is usually the one at the top.
My wife went on a YWAM mission trip. If there is ANYONE that is a grounded, normal Christian it is my wife. She speaks glowingly of her time there. Spend your time doing something important and unifying like working to ban all abortions in America instead of spreading dissent in the Body of Christ.
Relax. Don't get so offended just because your wife went there. They have every right to discuss it hence the series being called Cultish.
Each Ywam base is different. There are some suuuuper cultish ones and others that are more biblically sound and orthodox. I went to one that was a tad cultish but mostly good.
Normal? LOL the body is diverse sir. All due respect, it is great that your wife did not have a bad experience, but that does not disregard the many accusations of those who have been harmed. Did you listen to their thorough introduction and how they investigate this? God bless you and take care
Also, apologiastudios does a lot to end abortion. Have you seen Jeff Durbin recently? Please, don't be upset because these people are trying to live out the commands in Ephesians 4:15 and 5:11. Speaking the truth in love and exposing evil works. Let's not get our feelings into this, but take everything up to Christ who is the head of the church. Measure everything up to his inerrant word. If discussions like this are never had, any abuse that is taking place will continue to consume those who are unaware and not guarded
The entire basis of being a Protestant is protest ;) albeit it five centuries ago. Anyways, the point is when something like YWAM doesn't line itself up with scripture (sola scriptura), we ought to challenge it, resist it, question it, examine it, or buck against the system! Whether our spouse(s) went to YWAM or not, and had a good time! My experience with YWAM was not a good one, and I wouldn't personally recommend YWAM to anyone in good conscience based on my own personal experiences.
As I read the comments and watch the video, I am left with one thought - we are a weak, weak body. We attack and annihilate one another because we are different. Instead of embracing those differences, both reformed and Armenian, and recognizing that we are one body under one head (Jesus Christ), we would rather see our left arm cut off. It is so incredibly sad, and I pray that we are able to come to repentance as a body to unite under the common purpose of seeing many, both Baptist and non-denominational, Greek and Jew, come to a saving knowledge and relationship with Jesus.
Amen! Totally agree!
Just finished Francis Chan's "Until Unity" a couple of weeks ago that echo's these thoughts. I think Jen V is right on track with this series of comments. We show the world that we are Christians through our love for one another. The Bride of Christ today seems to be getting further and further away from that last half of Ephesians 5. All this bickering is not honoring God in any way. John 15:34-35 is a command straight from the mouth of our Savior. We are acting more like Rachel And Leah before they came to terms with their relationship with Jacob. We are One Body. We are not in competition for His Love.
In the words of a particular sinner, "People, I just want to say, you know, can't we all get along, can't we all get along?"
WE ARE ALL SINNERS.
I’ve reached out to Apologia a few years ago before those episodes came out and I’ve asked them to look at YWAM and it’s false teachings and they never replied to me…anyways maybe my email got lost…I was raised in YWAM and have suffered damage along with my whole family, I pray God everyday for healing and restoration.
This is what is my story too. I will make a video on my YT channel. I did not want to for a long time, because, in some way, YWAM was the only way to save us at that moment in time. But then it screwd us too.
My husband and I with our 2 sons did a crossroads dts in 1996 and had a very good experience there. We were already in missions and this was just a time to be renewed in God's word. The teaching was very solid. At that time there was the Toronto blessing, which became a great Christian tourism spot. But at ywam they were very balanced about things. I have heard and experienced only good things about it. It maybe that certain bases because of the local leadership may go off at times but their foundation is quite solid.
"their foundation is quite solid"??
Their foundation is as loosey goosey as they come. Ever-changing because you need no credentials to teach there. Terrible organization full of many people with good intentions
Our YWAM Base Director visited the Toronto Blessing and was a big fan of it. He was as a Director deeply immersed in the charismatic movement, and a big fan additionally of the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) which many in YWAM are big proponents of NAR theology and movement as well. Our Base Director said on several occasions that he would be doing his morning devotions ... and supposedly the Lord would come and carry him off to the top of a mountain top to spend time with the Lord. That's a hard testimony claim as a YWAM student or staff to dare say "Meh" or debunk or challenge the validity of it's merits as truth, fact, lies or fiction. But, much of YWAM is structured this way. People having supposed experiences or testimonies that "God SAID" ... and the rest of us who either go along with it ... which many in YWAM do (group speak) ... or some challenge it as BS and are fairly quickly made the black sheep of the group and eventually suppressed and pushed out. YWAM is a cold shoulder who don't believe as they do even if initially YWAM is ecumenical to allow people to enter in from a wide range of backgrounds, theological viewpoints, and denominations.
@@burningheartsfl7128 Well-said. This type of "Christianity" is nothing more than the New Age shrouded in post- modern Christianese
What base are they talking about?
It's interesting to watch these podcasts from the view of someone who isn't a Christian how they often throw little attacks at other religions, spiritualities, and even other sects of Christianity, but many non-christians view them the same way. A lot of the stuff they put others down for, they also do. Of course, it's just more accepted because Christianity has such a large population in America, but all in all, it's hypocritical. I enjoy the podcast and the hosts and the content, it's just something I find interesting.
I find it hard to see YWAM as being interdenominational. Most all of the YWAM functions, stories, teams, etc. I have known, heard of, been around were extremely interwoven in the theology of Bethel's sort of charismania. I generally don't differentiate the two when look at them.
YWAM is definitely interdenominational as to the staff, students it accepts to serve and do YWAM training; however, YWAM is not interdenominational in terms of it's teachings, lectures, training, DNA. It most definitely as to those movement aspects about YWAM is rooted firmly in the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) as to it's teachings, infrastructure and influences.
Yes good one to do I believe they hold to 7 mountain mandate
Absolutely they do. But it's gonna depend where you're at... My school was totally NAR infused and infected
I had a great DTS! What makes the interviewer so perfect!!! Picky, picky!!!
Are you mature enough to recognise that different people have different experiences and discussing them is important? Your experiences and your opinions are not the only ones in the world.
The discussion was mature, thoughtful, and charitable.
Wow! My experience with YWAM was many years ago, in the 1980's. I did my DTS on the Anastasis, when Mercy Ships was a fledgling ministry and still very much part of YWAM. I stayed on for a few years and never ever experienced anything approaching "cultish" status. I remember experiencing teaching from a wide range of people, including Dean Sherman, Tom Bloomer, Loren Cunningham and even his parents, TC and Aunt Jewell.
I also remember encountering some difficult times, and found the pastoral care beyond reproach. When we were in Hawaii, we were all encouraged to seek fellowship in local churches, and I am still friends with a couple from my home group long after losing touch with my YWAM friends.
My understanding of accountability was that all the leaders in the different ministries were accountable to the YWAM leadership. I remember it as a time when James Dobson reached out to several leaders at the top of their ministries in the wake of some spectacular falls from grace. In my time, we met in a field that would later become Kona's Plaza of the Nations, so it was very much a pioneering time, with both Kona and Mercy Ships being frontier ministries, in their infancy. If Mel Brooks taught me anything, it was to expect some "authentic frontier gibberish" whether in the Wild West or Hawaii.
I have heard from people in missions who have spoken in tongues, with locals demanding to know how they knew their local dialect. I've been in meetings where it has been an outpouring of worship, and I well remember that in the YWAM of the 1980's, leadership were sensitive to Christians from a range of backgrounds, including some Southern Baptists encountering speaking in tongues for the first time. I recall being asked to try to "be all things to all people," in other words to be sensitive to those around us.
This broadcast gives the impression that Loren Cunningham was building a family dynasty. I did some fact checking and discovered that he has one son involved in YWAM. I can name several churches here in NZ where offspring take up leadership roles with never a hint of nepotism. It's easy to make throwaway comments without backing them up. It reminds me of one time when Loren spoke to our DTS about a throwaway comment he'd made when addressing us a few months earlier. It was a throwaway comment that didn't even register with us, but Loren felt he had to confess it to us and ask forgiveness from our leadership. That told me a lot about his character.
Wherever you have large groups of people in community you will encounter problems. In my experience, YWAM leadership handled themselves well, being transparent as well as protecting confidentiality when that was needed. I knew of more than one instance of people having problems, not responding to pastoral intervention, and eventually moving on. Where we as a community needed to know, we were informed. Where it was none of our business, it was kept confidential.
Making vague accusations, suggesting that Loren was somehow unscriptural because someone read seventy pages with no reference to scripture (not how I remember reading "Is that Really You God?" ) and suggesting a lack of underlying scriptural foundations suggests that as apologists, you have not really done your homework. My memory of YWAM ministries was that God was very definitely at the centre and the "raison d'être" for their existence.
Dean Sherman taught false doctrine called Moral Government Theology, which is blatant heresy that is not biblical.
I made a video about my experience and I was interviewed about it for the next American Gospel film. Many of my friends around me including my wife are former YWAMers that have changed their theology to be more orthodox.
Amazing! When will that film be released? Cant wait to watch.
I relate to their stressful situation. 😪
In my opinion, you all should have spent more time in the beginning discussing the history of the organization and how both of these individuals got connected to YWAM.
Yes. That is the obvious cultish origin
The last comment was about deconstruction. How often have you seen YWAMers deconstruct?
I'm sorry but I've never heard of YWAM before. I'm 48:57 into the conversation and I am still very confused as to what actually is being discussed here. To me it sounds like every other conversation I've heard that is not applying the Word of God to judge and guide these"experiences". Please brothers and sisters understand I am not trying to be critical here but I really really am trying to understand what exactly you guys are talking about and without applying God's Word to the conversation, none of it really makes sense to me. To me it just sounds like another one of those conversations that some of us Christians tend to have with others and fall into severe error and confusion because we aren't consulting God's Word for the answers. I'm Definitely no expert and truly dependent on the Lord as I am a dumb sheep without my shepherd... But shouldn't we be asking simply... is this a "Biblical" ministry or a Christian ministry? Many call themselves Christians but have no idea what "Biblical" Christianity is. I used to be one of them. To God be the glory!
It was a pretty boring discussion 🥱
Going to need to start really showing the probs w the group a bit more convincingly in the next episodes; right now, it just seems like a hypercharismatic camp.
I know so many parents that have sent their kids to YWAM to 'fix' them, it's very sad. Often, they choose not to heed warnings about the organization. Many of these kids have become more mixed up than when they went. I also know a family that works for them, I would say that their theology often does not line up with the Word of God.
So what I heard said was, "we had semi-decent experience with some bad things as well", then the hosts commented on blog posts from other people who had bad experiences in YWAM. This is very poorly done and I think a gross misrepresentation to seemingly put YWAM in the same categories as these other ridiculous cults. This is subjective and should be more balanced by what YWAMs core values are and the mission (Matt. 28:16-20). YWAM is, generally speaking charismatic, but that is hardly enough to categorize them as a cult. You can find people in most churches who have had bad experiences, even in the best of churches. I like some of the other things yall have done, but I think this one was too subjective and speculative. I've been in the organization of YWAM, and was able to form my own theology from my study of the word, guidance from notable ministers like John Piper, Francis Chan, David Platt, etc, and was even able to get my bachelor's degree from an accredited seminary. Hardly cult-like to me. If you want to actually do something worthwhile you should have a private conversation with some solid and tenured YWAM leaders, then make a public statement, not with 2 DTS students that spent a short time in YWAM. I could say more, but these comments sections are probably the worst place to have a conversation.
Most people join a cult for the sole reason of good ideals, and family values. So what if YWAM has good "core values" all 21 of them and the biblical mandate (of Mt 28:18-20). I found in my own experiences with YWAM that it didn't live up to it's advertisements and ideals communicated to those to recruit and get them in the door. YWAM was very bait and switch in my experience. One of the core values of YWAM is to communicate with integrity, and yet the YWAM Base website was using my photos and intellectual property without my permission, and also utilizing photos from one U.S. State to promote and market the beauty and grandeur of another U.S. State someplace else. And the worst thing about YWAM is that Bases truly are accountable to no one if or when there are problems. I do agree with you that Cultish should interview beyond just two DTS students that are entry-level to joining YWAM and only spent a short time in YWAM. Personally, I don't recommend YWAM anymore to anyone.
They say it in the defecting from bethel episode, “usually people who join cults are in tough and vulnerable positions in life and that cults seek these kind of individuals out.” I don’t think that is What happens with YWAM.
I agree that some bases don’t live up to those core values, but that seems to very Christian in general. Many churches not living up to biblical standards or their own practices.
I’m sorry to hear people used your photos illegally. You should definitely reach out and ask about that.
Having trained to pioneer a YWAM Campus I can tell you that YWAM is a total joke. I don't think anyone should take YWAM seriously. It's not even accredited training.
Totally agree mate.
For goodness sakes, YWAM is not a cult. My son and daughter-in-law are on staff YWAMKC . So proud of them. I lived on base for three months. Saw absolutely no evidence of spiritual abuse. Mark Anderson about as grounded as any believer I know.
That's a cool but 1. I doubt your objectivity since it's your kids... 2. People who have been a part of it, myself included, have talked about their cultish tendencies for years. YMMV at different bases though.
@@artemthetrain14 Been walking with Jesus a long time, brother. I know my Shepard’s voice. If I sensed something was not in agreement with Holy Spirit, unafraid to speak up. This is a bunny trail unworthy of Apologia. There are things I agree with Apologia and there are things I disagree with. That doesn’t make Apologia a cult.
Did a DTS at YWAMKC definitely there was spiritual abuse. I witnessed leaders tell a single mother of three who was seeking the Lord, that she could not stay because they were not willing to have any staff babysit her kids and she wasn’t married. The pressure going through DTS and meet a certain standard was definitely there in 2013-2014. Your specific experience sir and your kids do not speak for the whole.
You may want to reread and edit your post. I think you are stating that there was “absolutely NO evidence…
@@AWHMN Thats not spiritual abuse.
I’m so confused how is confessing sin a bad thing? Isn’t everything going to be brought to the light anyways?
Yeah amen, doesn't the bible say in 1 John "confess your sins to others that you may be healed"!?
Because at ywam they coerce you into confessing.
The confession of sin in YWAM isn't the problem. It's the WHO or WHAT (context) in YWAM for this confessing of sin (publicly or privately) that can in fact be in YWAM a bad thing! YWAM can at times weaponize people's struggling with sin and their private confessions. I know of some people who confidentially told intimate details to their YWAM leader in One-On-One accountabilities which in YWAM are required, and then that same YWAM leader proceeded to use that weapon of a persons confessed sin or former past issues as a grip, or vice to in turn handle that person WITH! There is a big difference between what the Bible is saying, and in turn with what YWAM is doing to people in practice. Meaning, if the leader wasn't getting the desirable results they wanted out of the person they were leading, they then go and use the intimacy they have and knowledge about a person's confessed sin said to them behind closed doors to handle that person related to all present and later, future matters. To do so, is so incredibly wrong. The fact is, people shouldn't be duped in YWAM into being intimate with their trusted private, inner details before or until knowing first that such guarded trust, intimacy and vulnerability is indeed safe and won't be used later on against them. God certainly doesn't use our confession, accountability, intimacy, confessions in this same weaponized way and manner as in YWAM. In YWAM, you have to be careful and guarded with who you trust and are transparent with. A common word of advice in YWAM is to "keep quiet" and to just "keep your head down". Unfortunately, people needing to feel guarded about their secrets isn't a great way to grow the Kingdom, do missions, and to see future retention of growth within a missions organization.
@@susandumbill8805 I was in YWAM for 3 years and I never once saw a forced time of repentance. Having an atmosphere where repentance is encouraged is a good thing don't you think? If you are afraid to share what you've done maybe it's because you are ashamed. The only case I would say it's not smart to confess in front of everyone is if it's a sexual act you have done and there are men or women present in the same area. In this case and this case only really does what you said apply.
I wonder if was a change from the 90’s to what is going on today? At my campus they showed up (I believe it could also have been Circuit Riders, but I think they are affiliated with YWAM) but it was a bunch of 19 year olds with no governing older men/women who were leading the group. Anyways, theologically it was a train wreck. The Gospel was “God loves you, man” which was preceeded by an hour of worship songs, and afterwards they asked us to give money to their ministry and then quick left the college ministries on campus to pay for their tab (for using campus equipment)
I did a DTS on the main campus in Hawaii and would love to answer any questions!
Their is so much to talk about.
What school did you do, and when did you do it?
Was it overall worth it?
seems like these two have more of a personal bone to pick with their personal leaders than ywam as a whole. Bad leadership can and does happen in every church and mission. Ive worked with YWAM for 7 years 3 different locations and never felt prohibited from asking questions? and leaders saying you need to press into the Lord when you are struggling is like an obvious thing any leader should be saying.
Timothy was in his 30s when Paul told him let no one look down on you on account of your youth...hardly the teenager.
How do you know Timothy was in his 30’s? Book chapter verse please….
I have never been on a DTS. I knew a guy who did though. He had crazy theology and when I would question it, he would say, "Don't touch God's anointed." I didn't even get to finish my question. Just straight away he would say, "Don't touch God's anointed."
He is also a very immoral and nasty man. So, it's pretty sad that six months of studying the Bible and serving God and others had no effect on his soul. I don't believe he is a christian even though he claims he is.
Yes! I went into Ywam not having a clear understanding of what it was. I'm glad someone is talking about it. So many Christians think it's a good thing and send their young impressionable kids to it. Definitely some weird stuff that goes on. 😬☹
Youth With Arminian Missions
Not true. Both staff and students of my Bible school were reformed.
@@keilahniemela639 Many of them are. The ones in my area were. And just because they are Reformed doesn't mean they are Calvinist, if that's what you are getting at.
There was a lot of talk about "feelings" in this interview, but neither of these guests had anything happen to them personally that was negative.
Californian culture influenced American youth. They overkill the words "literally" and "like."
I've listened to this podcast three times and I don't think it can be said that there wasn't anything that happened to them personally that was negative. I was talking to Jeremiah the other day and he said that he is still dealing with processing some his YWAM experience. That's hardly saying he had a good YWAM experience. I think you are just hearing what you want to hear said.
Eh... Self control does not mean that the Holy Spirit can't manifest in a physical manner in your body. It's a matter of surrendering your will to the Holy Spirit. Now I have experienced being "pushed" by ministers during prayer and felt nothing, but I also have just been touched and fell like a rock. A brother caught me. I'm not in Ywam,but I have been in pentecostal churches most of my life.
I feel they need to be careful who they put in charge are they ready to lead. I have heard of horror stories about having bad leaders.
I got kicked out of outreach in thailand for drinking beers at a sushi restaurant in chiang mai. I had to pack up the next day and leave back home. The leader was a prick we never really got along. But its pretty crazy to be thrown out of outreach for beers 🤦♂️ But looking back i had horrible attitude towards the world at the time and i wasnt doing well mentally. The leader was probably fed up with my bad attitude and took his shot
I empathize with you. I am no longer a fan or enthusiast of YWAM myself personally. But, I will tell you that with the knowledge of our Base leadership we all as students doing YWAM secondary leadership school together went out for beers at a local pub just a mile or two from the Base without any problems. Every single secondary school student, each of my classmates participated towards the end of our school. YWAM is so incredibly inconsistent in just about everything that it does. I am sorry you were sent home by that leader who I agree sounds like a total prick.
Lol I got stuck mixing cement for hours as punishment in Mexico bc I questioned leadership. Ywam lousiville is a scam led by Andy landers and our team leader was Amos Ford. I was in the bathroom one time doing business and this weirdo looks over the top of the bathroom stall hoping to catch me doing things I shouldn’t.
Nevertheless far worse has been done by some of these people. I hope you're in a better place spiritually and in every way. God bless you ❤❤
Masters Commission is similar to YWAM and some experiences are similar.
I did a DTS in 2001 and stayed on as a missionary in Kyrgyzstan for about 4 months. My wife went to another base and had a totally different experience. For the most part my base had brought in teachers that had very good theological ideas, in fact a lot of it was very basic theology 101. There was a few deeper dives into Ephesians and missionology, but they were solid and proven as I have continued biblical studies and church history. We had students from a variety of denominations, some charismatic other not. My wife's experience was very different from mine, good teaching and more emphasis on worship but strict on some issues to the point of being a bit harsh.
I look back fondly on my time there, she doesn't on hers. One thing we both agree on is that the base leadership is usually a bit young and immature. That was problematic in that the focus was often on the issues single, young people have who are looking for a relationship. I personally think there should be at least a 2 year continued education and mission experience before leading a base.
I have met many other YWAMers some have had great experiences other not so much. But, so it is in life and Christian culture.
By the way, "hearing" or "feeling" God is not weird or unusual it's relantional. However, forcing or pressuring others to have that experience or believe someone else because of their experience is wrong and can obviously hinder growth or become abusive. But, I also had a friend who walked away from Jesus for a time because of a history of strict Calvinism. For him, it was having a genuine encounter with Jesus and the fulfillment of a near impossible prophetic word spoken to him years earlier that brought him back to Christ.
Healing comes by confessing!!!!
I saw YWAM and clicked instantly. This group has penetrated christain circles EVERYWHERE
Would LOVE to get in touch with someone at Cultish to share some more insight on YWAM! I was very close with several members of YWAM and also attended a local church for almost a year in 2011 that was the YWAM base before they moved permanently to the South Side of Pittsburgh. Once I started searching the scriptures for myself I realized that I didn’t have much in common with these people and wasn’t actually attending a church but a house of demons and left and never went back. Since my departure, the interactions and conversations I’ve had with most “professing Christians” from “The Christian Center” and “YWAM” would make you question if these people are actually God fearing, bible believing, born again Christians. I could talk about stuff for hours.
Love this podcast! Thanks for the work!
However, This is hard to hear. Because I grew up in charismatic circles. And it’s alarming to me when Christians are quick to label other Christians whom they disagree with a CULT.
A difference in Culture from organization to organization shouldn’t be an indication of Cultish leanings. If you call Charismatics Cultish, you might as well label Methodists as a cult. 🤷♂️
I can see what you’re saying, and agree to not be quick to label other Christians they don’t agree with or charismatics in general as a cult. I’ve also grown up in charismatic and Pentecostal circles. But I was also in YWAM for several years, and have had both good and bad experiences, and experienced spiritual abuse especially in one base. I think they could have given a bit more information to ppl who haven’t been in YWAM to understand how it works and also should have had a few people from different bases and someone who had been in YWAM longer. But I think it was a balanced conversation, knowing a lot of stories of abuse from YWAM over the years. Off course it can happen anywhere but I think the way YWAM is set up makes it quite easy to happen there and the cultish tendencies (not saying that it is a Cult necessarily).
I think it would be more helpful to talk to people who actually had bad experiences at ywam. You're not going to convince anybody of ywam's cultish behavior if you interview people who sound like they didn't have any issues and would rather just say nice things about it. I'm only half way through but again, it doesn't seem like these two experienced the abuse a lot of people, including myself, experience. Being treated less than because you're single, feeling like they own you because of how controlling they are. Or people who are waaaaay to old to be there, telling you that you don't hear from God and if you think you do you're being prideful. But in their next breath they tell you what God is saying to THEM about YOU. That same person was pretty much worshipped at our base, she could do no wrong. Then I heard how she went to several full time staff and told them they shouldn't be dating or marrying their bf/gf because God told HER its not going to work out. No one talks about how much they recruit during a dts, but when you arrive as full time staff you're met with crickets. I was alone for 3 days, no one came to visit or welcome me. Luckily I knew the city very well and was out doing things and meeting up with friends. People who left our base had nervous breakdowns in public. Everyone I know who left, including myself, had to go through counseling. PTSD is a very common occurrence.New staff arrives full of life and excitement and by the end of their 2 year commitment, most are burnt out, suffering from depression, on the verge of a breakdown and totally disappointed and ready to get out of there. So please, find someone who doesn't care if they make ywam look bad and actually has more evidence that its really a cult. It seems like these two are more concerned about making ywam NOT look like a cult.
OMG finally someone says this!!!
They had a person speak and they found out most of the students did not even know the verses to lead someone to Yeshua. This was not good. They need to check people out more.
I hear that every base is different, but I want to know what principals run through all of them since they are founded on dominionism and thought all of them try teaching you that people need to hear from God privately and personally. If that's true, no one looking to get into missions should go to this organization. You have a heart for missions you learn from heartcry ministries with Paul Washer
Should Cultish do an episode... "Cultish: Looking in to Apologia Studios (Cultish)"?
Also, First question was "Why would there be disorder"? Ha!
If you don't know the answer to this question...?
BTW...I love you guy's and what you do! Just frustrated...God uses all kinds and in many different situations. YWAM is living, an organism, just like Apologia and the church in general. Don't put limits on God. These guests are sharing and expressing their growth in Christ...their experiences could have been anywhere in the church, including Apologia. We're all sinners and are in the process of refinement...until we walk the streets of gold.
Hopefully this will be looked at as iron sharpening iron vs. tearing down the church from within.
I went to Kyrgyzstan too for my outreach
Just ran into this group on my campus a few weeks ago
I would avoid YWAM with a 20 foot pole if I could speak to myself before I had got involved with them. I have big regrets involving myself with YWAM.
Big Cultish fan here! Actually, you've got lots of fans down here on the YWAM Kona base! I think it would be awesome to have an apologia speaker (or maybe one of the Sheologians girls??) come for a visit..! 😊
This one doesn’t feel fully vetted and fair in some ways. Cultish seems to be moving from studying actual cults to “anyone who doesn’t conform to conservative, reformed, neo-calvinist, cessationist ideology”. And there are plenty of scholarly, legitimate, highly-biblical reasons to not do so. I don’t have a dog in this fight and am not a YWAM person - just an observation. The comment of “well if they had a vision from God, why is there disorder?” doesn’t pass muster. That’s true of just about any church, movement, or parachurch ministry, including Apologia. If you’ve been in the Church in any capacity for any length of time, you’ll encounter some dysfunction and lack of order.
Thank you!
I agree with this.
I am reformed and only 2 minutes into this clip, but for the record, I don't have a beard, I don't have any tattoos, and I don't smoke cigars. I hope I can still be Welcomed by your group.
I appreciate the comments by people who have actually personally been involved with YWAM and they seem pretty normal to me.
Now, I will continue watching this clip on cultish behavior.
I was working while playing this, so I was not listening closely, so take my comment for what it is worth. I think I understand that YWAM has over 1000 "bases" so that must mean they are actively training tens of thousands of MISSIONARIES to spread the Gospel and bring people into the Kingdom TODAY. They have been doing that for over 40 years. Some of those folks are in countries where they risk their lives to tell lost souls about Jesus. I prayed over a young couple myself just a three weeks ago that are in that zone now. If they are exposed where they are, they will not get kicked out of that country, they will be beheaded. It is easy to sit behind a microphone and complain about the way you may or may not have had your feelings hurt when you have the protection of the USA.
I went backed and checked it out. Approximately 1100 bases and 480 training bases. Keith Green was a YWAMer.
The big question is, what are they telling them about Jesus? Some charismatic, warped Gospel will save no one and them being in danger will have been in vain.
@@foxyghg ???
I always wonder when I see comments like that; is Acts 2:38 and 39 still in your Bible? Where does it say that the Gift Peter described there would cease with the last apostle? Mine says ...to your children, and to all that are far off, even as many as the Lord shall call. Paul said when the perfect comes, right? The context of 1 Corinthians 13:9-12 in plain English is when we see God face to face, and even more clear if you look at a Greek lexicon. It is very clear that we do not see God face to face in the completed 3rd century compiled Word. That dawg won't hunt.
My experience with YWAMers all the way back to Keith Green was that it was not unusual for them to be willing to give their life for Jesus. Some are charismatic, some are not, but they all seem to Love the Lord with all their heart, strength, etc. and love their neighbor as theirselves.
@@JimSkees1955... they all seem to love the Lord...
I personally know a guy from YWAM (catholic) who was a drunk and ended up stabbing his girlfriend and just finished his jail time (Germany). Some of them may be Christians. But I heard SO MANY crazy stories, that I believe most of them are just fun loving youth looking for a cool experience and maybe a spouse. My friend and their spouse worked for YWAM for over 10 years and are now woke atheists. I'm sure the wicked doctrine of YWAM played a role. I live in a town with a base. I could give you hours of testimony why this is a heretical organization with only a few Christians in it.
@@foxyghg we have a base at our church in Louisville, our pastor was from the Arkansas base 30 years ago before he went to a soviet block country (recovering) for several years before coming back home 20 years ago. One of our other YWAM trained pastors just came back from running meds to the Ukraine last week to trade for refugees. And there is that other couple I started out with in my first comment that are literally risking their necks today in a place where they aggressively hunt down and kill every Christian they hear about. Like I said, it is easy to be critical in the safety of what used to be the greatest country on earth. I've had my feelings hurt before too, but have always been able to work that out without turning on somebody and running to a microphone just because I did not get my way. There are sinners and charlatans in every group, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. YWAM has somewhere close to 10,000 people in training right now and have been doing that for over 40 years.
And no response to tth dig at charismatics? You seemed to indicate we are all "feelings" and no scripture. Tell me where I was wrong above. I see and practice some of those gifts every day, and I see plenty of scripture to back that up.
They operate in Thailand and Cambodia, two places with no real Christian prominence, yet are two of the havens for human trafficking and drug dealing. Coincidence? I think not
WOW folk! Im 53:39 minutes in this video but, i still don't see nor hear exactly what's cultish about YWAM. IDK...maybe im still missing it. Im a YWAMer in South Africa class of 2018-2019. Perhaps i'll get it in Part 2...?
Yeah, you're still missing it. Time to take off the rose coloured glasses, and taking a triumphant YWAM victory lap that everything's OK in YWAM when it's not. Just because Cultish needs to dig a little deeper doesn't mean there isn't dirt under the rug. Your response is typical to YWAM. Just because your experience was golden doesn't mean everyone else has had a golden experience just like your own.
Take off the rose coloured YWAM glasses maybe. YWAM's farts do in fact stink just as anybody others flatulence! And that's the problem with YWAM is it's inability to recognize where it does do wrong.
These intercession sessions do not seem to be taking the form of actual intercession. Correct is me i’m wrong, but isn’t intercession praying for and prophesying over others (not necessarily in your midst) for something to change, for hope to be ignited, for people to come to Christ, or for sin to be done away with (I get they’re doing this last thing, but it seems like they’re only stuck on this one aspect in their immediate community & not praying for anyone outside the room)?
What they’ve structured seems like a humiliating alternative to get your sins on record to use against you. It seems controlling and narcissistic, it does not appear to be grounded in love.
Also, the emptying of all the voices in your head could mean anything could come in. I understand they’re not explicitly saying, “take the Holy Spirit out” but if you’re trying to actively silence everything, I feel like you may also accidentally take out Holy Spirit’s voice, especially if you’re a new believer and trying to figure the Holy Spirit’s voice out still. Would it not be more beneficial to teach discernment around the different voices you hear in your head so that you can use the Word of God to combat the lies of the enemy, poor thoughts of your own, etc?
Really good questions & really opened my eyes to how dangerous some of this could be & why some people come out so shattered or not feeling like they can speak up.
What really hurts to watch is that she still sitting there is scared to speak up... she is just talking around stuff and underlining a hundred excuses for the leaders that she "still loves so much" oefffff.. its so sad to watch.
They need a follow up with each student when they are done with the DTS.
I love how this fundamentalism Christian channel likes to differentiate other sub groups of it’s own kind as a cult, yet doesn’t label itself as such.
Fundamentalism isn't the only group of people in Christendom or outside the Church calling YWAM out. I know and have heard of hundreds of different people groups calling YWAM out. The Cultish podcast is just throwing another log on the fire.
Starting around 7:40 A definition of a cult is stated as a group or organization that uses Christian terminology, but denies the Jesus Christ is God came in human flesh.
Okay… does YWAM come anywhere close to that description? What statement do you have from their leadership to that effect? Why bring that definition up if it has no demonstrable connection to this organization?
Come on guys, you are better than this.
YWAM is unapologetically charismatic, making them a target of reformed/cessationist outlets like this. All charismatics may as well be a cult according to cessationists. In reality, you are spot-on, YWAM is far from a cult.
I was severely abused at YWAM Orlando..
Fall 2017
Switched off v early on....talking about "problematic" with no reasons as to why.
Maybe this should have been called "Cultish-ish-ish-ish-ish-ish". All Christian organizations have issues - it's part of being in this broken world. So, should someone try to improve this organization and put light on the problems? Yes. But even implying it as being cult adjacent because of problems is problematic in itself.
Keep this channel for actual cults and maybe talk about organizations like this on another Apolagia(?) Podacst? That's my half cent.
All of the anecdotal criticisms from the video and in these comments can be found in Baptist Churches, Calvary Churches, Reform Churches, and the early churches in the Bible. I don't think it is appropriate to bring suspicions on them by caving a "Cultish" show devoted to them. I think it is slanderous. A different venue/podcast would be more appropriate.
Agreed. Anyone could look at any organization and find some sort of “cultish” aspect in it, including Apologia.
Good point. Theological disagreements with a Christian organisation does not a cult make.
Did you have a problem with a cultish on Bethel?
Well it’s different because we have these churches for a reason but this is a man made organization with its own theological issues that aren’t used today. And not the mention the spiritual abuse and manipulation/brainwashing it definitely is cultish and this is why we’re having this ep to explore the rumor that it is one. There’s a reason it’s being brought up.
@@Lizzy_Garfield not to mention I think most people don't eat, work, sleep, and live at their local church :)
I did dts twice didn’t finish the first time and finished the second I did SOMD as well. I saw a lot of questionable things during my time.
I let a couple different people push me over early in my Christian walk for the most bizarre reason - I didn't want the person pushing on me to feel bad if they couldn't do it.
food for thought,
i hear the bleating of a multitude of sheep, non-having a shepherd, trying to win the nations to the lord.
newborn lambs striving to defeat lucifer when as a lion he is devouring them. beaten, trodden down, defeated and all but eaten except for the mercy of the lord. youth can and have defeated lucifer on the field of battle(david vs goliath) if they have a genuine personal call from god and not a general word picked out of the scripture.
What about the Tattoo cult ?
What is the tattoo cult?
If you want to quote one commandment in Leviticus don't forget to follow fully today it's other 612 commanded obligations. And no grace for you!
It's great that Cultish talks about YWAM, but it unfortunately doesn't talk much about YWAM. Go deeper, go further. I found YWAM to be very cultish as a staff and student. This coverage of YWAM is soft and apathetic. Most people watching this unfamiliar with YWAM will watch it and say, "Meh, that wasn't so bad.." on the basis of two or three peoples testimonies. People need to be warned about YWAM. Cultish approach to this podcast is just sad.
I had a friend do HK off and on for like 15 years.
Was in Ywam France many moons ago for 8 years ...I learnt the treasure and great freedom there is to walk in the fear of the Lord .... Seems Cultish have truly missed the boat labeling this very godly organisation as cultish....wow you guys need to be called out!
If YWAM is so great, why did YWAM Perth in recent years accepted an alleged rapist Jarryd Haynes to do a DTS with girls the same age and younger as the female rape victim??? Jarryd Haynes was also later convicted and sentenced for rape by Australian High Court of Law. YWAM isn't nearly half as great as the organization you are naively positioning YWAM upon a pedestal of fidelity and perfection.
Question:
Does Minneapolis suggest the idea of a Giant Apoils?
Ppl will tell you it was sleep paralysis. We know what it really was.
why disorder if a vision from god? are you serious?? look at the the book of acts!!!!!
I went and they need to make sure the students are attending churches. And they seem to not have the girls dress moral. I feel they need to have more accountability. I felt the students thought this was like a vacation not a mission .
TH-cam heresy hunters. Did you look to find people that have different experiences? YWAM is no different than any Christian organization. How many thousands of people have been hurt in the Calvinist/reformed camp?
Christian organizations most certainly do have their share of problems. But, I have never seen another Christian organization with over 1,100+ members in social media networks groups called "Spiritual Abuse in YWAM," and many other shared affinity support based groups for the sole purpose of talking about bad, toxic experiences said to have occurred while in and with Youth With A Mission (YWAM).
Is there a leader of those "camps" that pushes a weird book on "hearing God's voice" then has their impressionable kids told to tell a group of people on the spot to tell them what is God telling you in that moment? YWAM is incredibly creepy and monumentally damaging. They push speaking on tongues, yet like all churches that push that demonic crap...there is never an interpreter, let alone 2 of them like the Bible says there should be.
Regarding Cunningham’s book on hearing God’s voice; Jeremiah said he got to page 70 before reading a scripture reference. That evidence is completely inadequate to use it as evidence that a book, teacher, or organization is “cultish”. If the contents of the book contradict scripture, then Jeremiah neglected to tells us how or where.
A great sermon might last for an hour and a half, and only explore three verses. Making note of sparse scripture references does not constitute a substantial criticism.
I think Jeremiah actually makes a great point if a person is taking a high view of scripture and the premise is that the Word of God is truly important to people. I was in YWAM, and we never would really open up the Bible, teach from it much, learn from it, focus on His Word. The Bible sat on the shelf most of the time at the YWAM Base I was at.
I went to YWAM in Kona in 2018 and met Loren Cunningham the founder many times. YWAM is such a twisted organization and leaves so many people with religious trauma. When you are at YWAM they make you feel like you are in this huge loving community of people who will support you and support your journey. However, you are unable to work while being there. They actually make you work on the campus without pay so you are doing the campus labor for them. Not only that, but they literally had a night where they made you throw items you love away in a FIRE. They made it so that anything you idolized was terrible and I watched students throw away brand new macbooks. YWAM forces you to evangalize in public even if people do not want to or you dont feel comfortable pushing a religion on someone. YWAM changed everything for me and it is 100% cult like. They had a pastor come to campus and tell everyone how someone who was once a student later came out as LGBTQ and they sent a pastor of YWAM to his house to fix him. They guilted him for being who he was and made him feel like something was wrong with him. After I came out, I couldn't believe how YWAM treated me. They were just pure awful.