As a member of the LDS church I want to thanks the Community of Christ church for maintaining and caring for the buildings and documents over the 180 ish years. I am thankful for our shared heritage and love for our prophet Joseph Smith. I thank you and love you
I like how you said "the" lds church then mention the shared heritage. Most of the stuff bought was probably burnt so we will never know the truth. this wasn't a purchase it was a hostage situation.
Thank you for providing such such a great report. It is super exciting! Thank you to our sister church for giving us the opportunity to care for these sacred gifts.
I too wish to thank the Community of Christ for being such wonderful caretakers and welcoming when visiting the Kirtland temple of of these other properties and items. I am glad to know that my faith will do the same in caretaking and extending the opportunity for all to visit.
Thank you for covering the topic so well! I love all your content and appreciate your eloquent speaking style! I'm thrilled with the purchase and appreciate your gratitude to the Community of Christ for their integrity.
If my final communication to my wife is "I am resigned to my lot knowing I am justified and have done the best that could be done. Give my love to the children." I will have lived a full life!
So grateful for the Community of Christ Church for their care & keeping of everything involved in this transaction. Thank you for this in-depth review of this and your research that we can tie into. Well done! (your review was concise, & well paced. Awesome.)
As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints I want to express my full gratitude to the Community of Christ Church I am out of words.
I went to a Fireside tonight by one of the LDS persons involved in the assets sale and he said that the Community of Christ were on board with the transfer from 2021. A lot of their members of the C.of C faith felt heartbroken. To any of the those good people , please know that our intentions are to preserve and restore the facilities. It will take a great deal of money to preserve these beautiful, but fragile pieces of not only religious history, but American and World history. Thanks for your long stewardship in the caring of the Lords House.
Great reporting, thank you! So grateful to hear this news. THANK YOU to the Community of Christ for preserving this sacred building!! One note: please do not abbreviate the Doctrine and Covenants when speaking of it. Thanks!
When Brigham Young baptized my ancestors in Canada they moved to Kirkland. There are some records of them being taught by Joseph Smith in the Kirkland temple. For historical purposes it is nice to see that this building will be preserved for many more years. I'm of the belief that the period of gathering into a single location has passed. The scriptures declaring that in the last days the New Jerusalem would be established in the tops of the mountains clearly meant that these Eastern sites would be abandoned. I've always liked the statement that the bible is not religion but the history of religion. It is much more important how we treat our neighbors today. I'm glad that my church was able to help the Community of Christ in their current time of need. I expect that we will continue to maintain these great historical locations as the Community of Christ has done.
@@susanmcconnell6041 People get the second K from the Walmart Sam's Club brand named Kirkland. I still sometimes confuse Kirtland Air Force Base with having a K, for this reason...lol. Both Kirtland Air Force Base and Kirtland, Ohio have the T, one K.
It is interesting how amicable the relationship is between the two churches. 100 or so years ago, the relationship was very adversarial and bitter. I'm pleased that today, we consider our religious cousins of the CofC as friends. Without good relations, this transfer of historic buildings etc. would have been very unlikely.
Community of Christ was so nice. My friends and I worked in sales in Kirtland. We spent time at the temple and visitors center and they were so kind and answered all our questions. We formed a good relationship with them. Honestly, I think I initially misjudged them and I'm glad I got to meet some of their kind members!
I agree, CoC members are very nice and were super cool when we toured the Kirtland Temple some years ago, and admitted, the Temple has not been restored as it should, and said some 99% of people who come visit the Kirtland Temple, are Latter-day Saints as CoC members are very small in number and don't have much interest in it.
I served my LDS mission in Minnesota where there is a good population of CoC members. Very happy to have been able to meet and talk with some of their members.
I'm not a Mormon but this is amazing to hear! Glad the LDS can protect history as well as their have artifacts to show on what happened with Joseph Smith and early Mormon history
one of their "prophets" ( the grand-nephew of Joseph, the grandson of Hyrum) cut a page out of Joseph's journal to hide their history from members and outsiders. That is just one example of many, they have engaged in historical revisionism throughout their entire history.
The Kirtland Temple is not set up for modern Endowment ceremonies. We couldn't convert it over to that use without destroying the original integrity of that sacred space. I've always thought that if the Church ever bought the Kirtland Temple, it would be best to just continue to keep it open for tours.
In Jesus Christ; I'm very excited about the purchase of the Kirkland Church by the Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints, and everything thing that came with it.
I understand the Kirtland Temple will remain a historical building for open tours. Another temple in nearby Cleveland, Ohio will be a modern temple for Temple Recommend holding Church members in the near future.
It’s interesting to note that through the tithes of the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are what made possible filling in the gaps of the lack of tithes from the members of the Community of Christ.
Hoorah for Israel!!! This is wonderful news! God bless our cousins in The Community of Christ Church for being willing to share these sacred spaces with us! ❤️☀️
The Kirtland Temple was not designed for Baptisms, Endowments and Sealings so modifying it for regular temple worship would not work. Tearing it down to build a modern temple would be a desecration, and would never be considered. It's meaning was the unfolding of the Restoration, and that is important enough to preserve it.
I'm not a Mormon but I am very much in historical research and ancestry things. I am glad that something like this has been returned to the rightful people/church/organization. I myself was deprived of learning about my Slovak culture from my aunt but when I discovered through family search and ancestry DNA I felt the same way like my history and legacy was returned to me and it no longer belonged to just my aunt. Kudos to that
If you aren't a Mormon, why do you consider The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the "rightful" people? The Community of Christ, as well as several other sects of Mormonism have the same history as the Brighamite branch. Did you know the Community of Christ used to be called the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and was started by Joseph Smith's first wife and their son? It's just an odd comment.
@jaybravo2199 Maybe we are the rightful owners because the front of the temple reads "built by the Latter Day Saints," and the community of Christ abandoned that title over 20 years ago.
There are probably a number of reasons for the After Joseph Smith died the church divided between those who wanted to stay in Nauvoo and those who wanted to leave. Many disagreed with Brigham Young’s decision to leave and so formed their own church. James Jesse Strang began what would become the Reorganised Church, claiming that he’d received instruction from Joseph Smith that he was to be the next president of the church. Brigham Young, as you’d expect, did not agree. That was the first big disagreement. The second disagreement was over Strang’s claim that at some point, when old enough, the church should be led by a descendant of Joseph Smith and would then continue to be so. Brigham Young, however, had received revelation that in the absence of a prophet the president of the Quorum Of The Twelve would lead the church (which is what Young was at the time) and he later set the precedent that the President of the Quorum Of The 12 would succeed the presidency of the church o. The death of the previous church president. The LDS still practice this today. Likewise, after Joseph Smith III became the president of the Reirganised Church, every president was a direct descendent of Joseph Smith until 1996. There were also a number of disagreements over doctrine. Many members of the reorganised church opposed some of the changes that Brigham Young was introducing to the temple ordinances (including a lot of the symbolism that the LDS church uses today) and favoured the much simpler ordinances and practices that Joseph Smith first instituted. Many of the Saints who remained in Nauvoo were also anti-polygamy, at a time when the LDS church still practiced it. Indeed both Emma Smith and Joseph Smith III remained anti-polygamy until their dying day and denied that Joseph Smith ever committed it (something you’ll never here in the LDS church is the fact that Emma Smith was unaware of most of Joseph’s other marriages and was adamant that the details were all made up by Brigham Young after Joseph’s death). Interestingly, Strang started practicing polygamy which drove many of his followers towards Joseph Smith III who condemned the practice. As the Reorganised Church continued it also became more Protestant in its leanings. By 1984 they even opened up the Priesthood to women. Interestingly, Joseph Smith III always claimed that the Reorganised Church followed the pattern set by Joseph Smith closely whilst Brigham Young and the Latter Day Saints were distorting, changing and adding to what Joseph Smith had established. One thing that is sure, the church and the way it was organised was never the same after Brigham Young assumed leadership. So, to summarise, the disagreement was a combination of a power play following a leadership vacuum, a rejection of Brigham Young and many of his ideas, a desire to stay in Nauvoo and fundamental doctrinal differences. But the two churches have long been united at least by a shared love of Joseph Smith and the Book Of Mormon, even if nothing else.
The paintings of Joseph and Emma were in the community of Christ book store in their independence Missouri temple when I visited in 2012. Odd location for them, I thought at the time. I had an amazing spiritual experience in connection with seeing the pictures that day. Really glad the Church of Jesus Christ now owns them.
By the time I saw the paintings it was not in a book store but rather in a museum, (in the same area and close to the book store in their temple in Independence. The Liberty Jail door was also in the museum and so were many other cool things.
This one of the biggest last days action that needs to happen before the Savior returns. We are still a way off from that return but this is one of those latter day happenings that brings in the last of the final days.
Why do you say that? Can you cite an alleged prophecy or claim that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints purchasing the Kirtland Temple is a "sign of the time"?
@jaybravo2199 I can but it would take some time typing them. I am a church history major and religious scholar but you would need to read every book I have to understand. I can help you if you like.
@@RICREYNOLDSMUSIC ahhh… you’ve read enough between the lines to find an obscure connection… sounds like the start to every fringe religion and cult to have ever started.
@@RICREYNOLDSMUSIC and whose version of God is the one true God? Those belonging to Islaam, Judaism, Buddhism, any of the countless flavors of Christianity?
I wondered if the day would come. The money to the community of Christ they really needed to keep their missions etc. I know they needed money. It's an exciting time for both churches
The Community of Christ is slipping into insolvency. While their cover story is about missions, in reality they need the money to pay their pension fund. More and more of their buildings are falling apart because they do not have the money to fix them. Their ultra-Liberal position has drove away many of their membership.
Are you serious? We wish all churches well. There are so many good people in good churches tryi no not do what they feel is best. Just because we know they are missing a lot of the truth doesn’t mean they we should wish them bad. We are still having more truth revealed to us daily too. So yes, wish them the best and be grateful we are in such a good position to do so much good and to help them out along with millions of others every year!
@@bball84095 Nephi said there are only 2 churches. The true church and everything else, the whore of all the earth. Have you ever read Joseph Smith’s writings? He stated his role was to rid the world of false teachings (false churches)! You may wish the people well but we do NOT support, condone, uphold, recognize other churches. the original comment state they’re happy that the other church now has money to continue their false teachings and missions. Completely wrong!!
@@bball84095 TH-cam scrubbed my comment because I quoted Nephi. We wish people well all over the world and yes even in other churches. But the churches themselves we do NOT wish well! Nephi stated there are only two churches, the true church and everything thing else. Nephi uses a word that TH-cam will not allow. Joseph Smith taught that his role was to abolish false teachings (false churches)! The original comment stated they’re happy that the rlds will now have money to continue their false teachings and missions. That is completely wrong! I know the new church generation is afraid to be politically incorrect and afraid to be bold or courageous as it used to be. This is not your grandparents Mormon church!
The JST or Joseph Smith Translation, has been really downplayed in the LDS religion, partially because the copyright was owned by the Community of Christ Church. I think we will look a lot deeper into this scripture now. It is actually not a translation but more rightly called the Inspired version. It corrects many inconsistencies in the Bible and offers much more insight into the teachings of Jesus Christ. I guess that is what Prophets are for: explaining the deeper meanings.
these details show the hand of Christ in the dealings of the community of Christ one example is the fact that Joseph Smith III went and made friends with those in the regions where the saints had been driven from whereas the Utah church still holds an unjustified victimh and siege mentality regarding these events. In a Sunday school manual published by the community of Christ they say straight up we were partly at fault and they do on behalf of the Utah church since there was no separation in those days. This spirit of Christ still persists in their culture.
If you would indulge a question please ; What is the difference between a rite and a ritual? I understand that 1 has a more positive and uplifting connotation.And the other the opposite!
Appreciate the post. There are other pictures of Joseph and Emma. My family owned the original paintings which shows JS in his general uniform and separate picture of Emma in a dress. JS wrote about posing for this in his journal. We owned the paintings at the same time that this picture was on the front page of the Ensign.
Thankfully the Community of Christ Church sold all of this to the LDS Church. I'd really like to see the COC Church dissolve and intergrate ( join) into the mainstream LDS Church. They certainly are our Brothers and Sisters.
Actually Ward Radio covered this a few hours after the sale and closing on all this, they went into depth on the whole pkg. you present a great shorter version . Thank you Sister ❤️
Elder Bruce R. McConkie explained why Elias appeared in the Kirtland Temple: The man Elias brings back “the gospel of Abraham,” the great Abrahamic covenant whereby the faithful receive promises of eternal increase, promises that through celestial marriage their eternal posterity shall be as numerous as the sands upon the seashore or as the stars in heaven for multitude. (Bruce R. McConkie, “The Keys of the Kingdom,” Ensign, May 1983, 22 Was there a reason that Elias was omitted in your comments?
I would hazard a guess that its a problematic part of the story... Jospeh claimed both Elias and Elijah came to visit, when in fact "Elias" is merely the Greek name of the Hebrew prophet "Elijah."
The Community of Christ does not own the Temple Lot. The Church of Christ (originally known as The Church of Christ Temple Lot) owns the 300 sq. ft. lot. But we know the Prophet will be able to acquire it when the Lord wants it done. .
I was thinking about the upcoming Relief Society broadcast that is scheduled for the anniversary of the organization of the Relief society, which was organized on March 17, 1842, upstairs in the Red Brick Store. It would be amazing if they broadcast that event from the Red brick Store. . I think it is awesome that The Church of Jesus Christ was able to acquire the Red Brick Store, just 12 days before the Relief Society birthday of March 17th. I have been to Kirtland and Nauvoo both, several times but not since 2021, and because of lack of money, the Community of Christ was unable to staff the Kirtland Temple and Red Brick Store so did not get to go into either at that time ( Shortly after that Return Senior Missionaries would go to Kirtland and offer to give tours for free. They were able to do so under the direction of the CoChrist. I am going again in September to Nauvoo I am looking forward to going though the buildings with missionaries called to serve there. I went to Kirkland Temple twice in 2022, now I want to go again. I most likely will in 2025. I live in Wyoming close to Mormon Pioneer trail. I am a Church History buff and love going to the sites.
Loved your presentation and enthusiasm! I am wondering if mentioning the Savior appearing to the Prophet Joseph and Oliver, then Elijah, Moses, with no mentioning of Elias, all three translated Prophets restoring keys of the Priesthood necessary for the gathering of scattered Iseral and Sealing powers. I'm just wondering.. NOT criticism!
really changing the Kirtland temple into a post Nauvoo temple would destroy the historical context of the building, as well it would be to small to do so
Happy the church owns now what really belongs to the church after all the community of Christ came from the members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the past. My prayers for the community of Christ🙏
With all due respect to the CofC church, I have a friend who was a member of that church and she told me a ton about it and said very few people attend anymore, and almost no members pay tithing anymore either, leaving their church near-bankrupt and deeply in debt. The CofC church has been selling off most all of their properties and assets in the past decade, as they move to being a very small secular Christian sect and away from the restoration beliefs. The CofC's constitution, established by Joseph Smith III, in the late 1800's, stated, ONLY descendants of Joseph Smith Jr. can be president and prophet of their church. That changed in the 1980's with a non-Smith appointed president. Other core doctrines changed as well, causing mass exodus' of members, which they've never recovered. The Church of Jesus Christ is preparing to purchase ALL of the land around the temple site in Independence from the CofC and Temple Lot church's, and already has the design completed for the massive Temple of Zion there, and new church headquarter buildings. We have a friend who worked as a chief architect for the church who described, in detail, the New Jerusalem Temple in Independence, which its 40 story high steeple and 12 domes surrounding the steeple, acting as a Temple and a learning center, and other details, including a stone wall around the Temple grounds with 12 separate gates, with each Israelite tribe's name over each entrance. The Temple alone with take up many acres. Pretty exciting times ahead!
The Community of Christ wasn't as sheltered as well as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is to absorb membership loss and a decreasing tithing income.
They don''t have very many members total, only about 250,000 (according to their web site) so if most are not paying tithing it would be hard for them to continue their mission of world peace.
@@l7846 yes, in 1984 the Community of Christ recognized women as capable and eligible to be ordained to the priesthood. In comparison, 1984 was the first year The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints allowed women to speak in general conference.
Of the 63 acres the Community of Christ owns most of it, with the LDS Church owning the 2nd largest part. There is a big auditorium that they own that is kitty corner from their Temple, and across the street from the LDS Visitor Center. The Church did not acquire it, but it is not something the church needs nor does it have any historical value. The 300X200 sq ft. Temple Lot that Joseph Smith dedicated for the Temple, that is kitty corner from the LDS Visitor center and just a short walk to go to it, is not owned by either the Community of Christ nor The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It is owned by a church originally called The Church of Christ Temple Lot but is now known as The Church of Christ.. The original corner markers that Joseph placed there at the time of dedication of the lot, have been removed by The Church of Christ to prevent them from being stolen. They are in their little church and they do allow you to come in and see them.
@@VaLynne1 Great answer! I won't say that the Lord will not eventually reclaim every part of land prophesied to be inheritance, whether by purchase in advance or after His return, that they aren't needed and without historical value. However, not much was developed there in the Saints' time there, just the corner markers and maybe some cabin homes long ago destroyed and/or removed. At least as late as the 1980's the church would still actively buy land in Jackson County, to establish legal inheritance, following that the Doctrine and Covenants talks about purchasing the land. I grew up in Independence, Missouri. Both my parents converted to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints at ages 23 and 19 before they married, so I was raised in the church. I have many friends from the Community of Christ (formerly the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) and I especially like the Restoration Branch that broke away from the RLDS before it became the Community of Christ.
In my opinion, the characters from the gold plates on that sheet of paper were written by someone who looked at them upside down. On the fourth line character three or four from the left is a line and under it four dots, that's the msya number nine but typically the line would be under the dots nit over them which makes me think the gold plates were written right to left and those looking at them were looking at them upside down left to right.
@HelloUser1 well said. I find it fascinating that the church only cherry picks history and glossea over the real issues with things like the first vision account(S) the book of.abraham mis translation, the D&C 132 issues. The stone im the hat problems etc. To say the least and many others I won't have time to address. I find that this is a great addition to the collection. Wonder why we can't get the gold plates back from the angel that took them and the sword of Laban. I want to see those artifacts
If you saw them tomorrow I'm sure you'd just find something else to knock, ridicule,not believe in, ask to see, etc etc...people who must be shown all things with their eyes, and prove all things materially have little to no faith and will never be satisfied with"proof" of anything...
@@rdancranston you see I believed in Santa Claus until I was 8. I found out I was lied to. The church lied and continues to lie to protect the good name. So many issues and not enough truth. Let's find truth.
Either the COC would need to stop ordaining women to the priesthood... their current prophet is a woman... or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints would have to start ordaining women. I don't see either happening.
I love that in 3 Nephi Jesus blesses the saints of that day with clear instruction on how baptism should be done without condemning or shaming those who were doing it incorrectly prior. I hope and pray wonderful dissenters of all faiths believing in Joseph Smith (at least up to various points) and the Book of Mormon-Another Testament of Jesus Christ will survive end-time destructions and be lovingly welcomed, corrected and blessed in a similar way. Prophecies say this will happen for the house of Judah, the Jews, and I hope for sincere followers and believers in God of EVERY religion and faith in the world, that Jesus will correct the doctrinal errors and unite all lovers of God and good!
When my family visited the Kirtland Temple last year, we weren't allowed to go in the second level. I seem to remember them saying it was never fully finished or there were some structural concerns. Would the church ever do some renovations? Would the Community of Christ be ok with that?
I too have been to the 2nd level my most recent was in 2021. I plan on going in 2025. And now that the Community of Christ does not own it any more, Why would they not be okay with it? An apostle of the Community of Christ shows the 2nd floor to the whole world a few days before the sale and so I really don't see how it would be an issue now? th-cam.com/video/w7KLlPPw33M/w-d-xo.html
The 2nd floor is in good shape but the 3rd floor, basically storage area from what we were told, was not restored. But as far as "Would the community of Christ be okay with that," make as much sense as you remodeling your house after buying it from a family who had previously owned it. I don't think the previous owners would care one way or the other what you do with it now that they don't own it, as long as they knew you loved it as much as they had and wanted to make it nicer, not tear it apart. And I am pretty sure the Community of Christ knows The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints would never want to do anything to take away from the Temple. I think The Church of Jesus Christ is planning on making some repairs the Community of Christ has been unable to afford to do.
After Joseph Smith Jr was martyred, the Twelve Apostles took the leadership role. The President of that body at the time was Brigham Young. (Later he would reconstitute a new First Presidency.) At a large meeting in which he and other would-be leaders spoke, some in the audience reported him taking on the voice or appearance of Joseph Smith. The Apostles were responsible for leading missionary efforts in other parts of the US, Canada, Britain, Denmark, etc., so the membership in those places almost entirely followed the apostles. This became The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which relocated across the Plains to Salt Lake City. But it's worth noting that many in Nauvoo did not. The several other would-be leaders gathered their own flocks. Some stayed in that area. Some traveled back to Missouri, or to Texas, or Wisconsin, or other locations. A decade later, Joseph Smith III (who was a child when his father died) claimed the role of Prophet and President of the church was meant to be hereditary. He gathered people from many of these scattered groups into The Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They rejected plural marriage and other practices that developed in the Nauvoo era, like the temple ceremonies. They largely focused on the Kirtland era of the early church, and moved their headquarters to Independence, Missouri.
Thanks so much for this answer. Full of enlightening. But now... the community of Christ do not have ceremony in temple, isn’t it ? Are they believe in the BOM and D&C and the pearl of great price ?
Some people I know have complained about how much money the Church purchased all these buildings and items for. They say it’s a waist or a frivolous thing to spend our tithing on, and that money should be spent on helping the poor. What could I say in response to that?
The Lord has preserved these places and these people for his own purposes.. I know that there will be truths in the documents that the brighamites never got the privilege of having until now.. The Lords purposes will continue to roll forward.. ..
I would be disappointed if the LDS Church (of which I am a member) EVER converted the Kirkland Temple to a "working" temple because that was not done there originally and I feel like the building needs to be preserved in it's original condition. This is one. of the few buildings from that era that is not a restoration...but a preservation of the original. This building was built only 40 years after the US Capitol Building in Washington. For the Church it has that historic significance.
The church announced it will be kept as a historical site, free of charge to all who wish to come. That is one of the big blessings because when the Community of Christ owed it they had to charge so that they could pay the guides who took you through. This will be a blessing to the members of the Community of Christ as well as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
@@VaLynne1 I'll miss those paid guides. They were knowledgable and weren't shy about answering any questions presented and were able to expound upon things ignored by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. In contrast, I've found missionaries at other church owned historic sites tend to know very little beyond the script they are given.
For all those of you who are worried about speed, just go into the "SETTINGS" gear on the video and change the speed of the replay. Works like a charm!!!
March 5 is a day to be celebrated. And yes, I think getting a lot of the documents, especially the JST materials, is as big a deal as getting the historic sites back in our control so they can be properly maintained and the history properly presented. (If you look at the CoC video tour of the Kirtland Temple, they completely leave out the visit of Christ, Moses, Elias and Elijah to restore their priesthood keys, which I believe was one of the purposes for the Kirtland Temple.)
Your are right, I have been to the Kirtland Temple when all tours were made by the Community of Christ paid tour guides, and they do not mention any of the spiritual things that occurred there. But That visit was not just "one of the purposes of the Kirtland Temple, it was THE purpose of the Temple. No Baptisms or fullness of any of the ordinances were done there. Joseph did do "partial ordinances." but not the fulness. The Lord wanted it built so that Elijah, Elias, Moses and others could bring the keys to Joseph.
@@VaLynne1 "Elias" is merely the Greek name of the Hebrew prophet "Elijah." Thus, Joseph Smith made a fatal error by having Elias and Elijah be two different people, when they are in fact one and the same.
Kinda like distant neighbors? I don't have a perfect answer for this...We kinda hung out with other youth missionaries of theirs in Nauvoo when I was there, they taught us some fun camp songs, but church wise it's like non intersect somehow...? :)
If the church began using the Kirkland temple as a fully functional temple wouldn't that require it be remodeled in the interior? This would't be good. Leave it as close as possible the way it was in Joseph Smith's day. If this area needs a temple, build an other temple please.
The Kirtland temple isn't even large enough for such purposes, even with a massive renovation. The Cleveland temple has already been announced, with land purchased for it, and the Church has confirmed that is still the plan for the area.
But the Intellectual Reserve Church will need to turn everything over to those who have the real priesthood authority since they lost it over the past 130 years.
@@KB-nv4bl if you notice history you will see that Lorenzo Snow sadly recognized that the Lord was no longer able to give them revelation through his experiences in the Salt Lake Temple that we hear a modified version of regarding his appearance therein. The Intellectual Reserve Church has lost its way and it has progressively gotten worse over the past 130 years and it has to be restored yet again by faithful preservers of the priesthood once the Lord either cleans out the Intellectual Reserve or entirely restores it again.
Pretty cool purchases. Can't wait to visit the sites. I wonder how many documents and artifacts were included in this purchase. Will the church share EVERYTHING they purchased or will they hide some of it? Unfortunately, the church has a history of hiding documents and artifacts that they feel could challenge members' faith. I hope they do not do this.
Actually the Church never hid anything, anti Mormons claimed the Church hid them but the anti's got the information from the same place any one could have found it if they wanted to see it. The Church did make everything more accessible when they did the Joseph Smith Papers, but that didn't mean it was hidden before the Joseph Smith Papers Project began. It made the anti's very upset because now it is too easy for any and everyone to find things that the antis claim the church was hiding. Pictures of the seer stones that Joseph used was in the Ensign many years ago but then recently someone said that, the Church had been hiding the that Joseph used seer stones to translate the Book of Mormon. What was really sad is that so many idiots out there actually believed the antis rather than look at the back issues of the Ensign.
@@VaLynne1 What truly is sad is you calling people idiots, let alone your gross lack of understanding of the issue at hand. Who needs an organized group of antis with members calling people idiots, right?
The sale will not help the RLDS/C of C church because it's been dying a slow death for decades, all due to leadership wanting to become a modern progressive 'social justice' church and the membership not accepting the change in direction. I saw the beginnings of this in my home branch in Australia as the drive for women in the priesthood split the church, families and friends apart. RIP.
This transaction is the beginning of the end for Community of Christ’s existence. Granted, since I was a member of the RLDS Church, their membership roles have dwindled significantly and are still dwindling.
Hi, Nolan! I am Josiah. I grew up in Independence. Did you live there? If so, I am wondering how the Restoration Branches are doing there, who broke away from the RLDS Church before it became the Community of Christ? Dennis Cato was an RLDS pastor and my coach's pitch baseball coach for a couple of my childhood years; he, his family and some in his extended family converted to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the late 1980's. He eventually became my parents' bishop and later stake president! Do you know them, if you happened to live there?
@@LiveHappy76 I'd love to see a citation for that claim... The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has more than enough money to have paid for this without having to impact their overall portfolio. Edited to add: after reviewing the press releases related to this sale, the church did in fact facilitate the purchase. @LiveHappy76... why would you claim otherwise?
@@jaybravo2199 Hi, Jay. (My name's Josiah.) I apologize, I was in error. I already deleted my posts under this video where I said this purchase was funded by private donors (I posted it about 4 times). Only last month, I read and saw press and media about the church's acquisition in 2017 of the original printer's manuscript of the Book of Mormon-Another Testament of Jesus Christ, also from the Community of Christ. That purchase was made, with a few other items, for $35 million by private donors who bought it to give it to the church. Having that recently in my mind, I confused the two purchases and made the mistaken posts. I appreciate your civility and generally open attitudes I've seen in your many posts. I see you are strong academically/in critical thinking. I just sent a prayer your way that you will doubt your doubts more than you might doubt your faith. If you aren't already familiar with it, please, watch Elder Lawrence E. Corbridge's BYU devotional talk delivered Jan. 22, 2019, th-cam.com/video/NSEsLtwKzvw/w-d-xo.html He talks about maintaining faith by maintaining focus on the primary, essential gospel/spiritual/doctrinal questions and exercising faith and flexibility on the rest. God is a perfect God working His plan among imperfect people in a fallen world.
When they announced the acquisition they also announced it would be open to all, free of charge as a historic site, like all Church historical sites. It is closed now but will reopen this month on March 25th,
Thank you for not having background music. Thank you for sharing this information and your opinions. Just some feedback, slow down. There's no reason to slur your words and talk that fast. It does not come across as confident. It comes across as unprofessional and nervous. Slow down. You have a good message to deliver.
Only people's written records in journals and also the record published in the Doctrine and Covenants. God never has, never will show Himself *in a form of glory and power* to the world, generally and openly, not until Jesus' Second Coming. Even with Moses, Moses alone saw and spoke with God at the top of Sinai and God was obscured by a cloud of smoke by day and a pillar of fire by night during the exodus of Israel. The purpose that God does not openly reveal Himself is so that we mortals can be tested by and show faith necessary to prepare those who do for God's great blessings of eternal life for those who work their way past/through the darkness of Satan's lies and our sinful, wicked natures. God cannot allow impurely acting and impurely motivated people, including Satan and his angels, into His heaven and throne room, otherwise they would destroy it. Justice separates good/righteous/clean from bad/unrighteous/unclean and Mercy/Grace allow all unclean to wash clean through Jesus Christ, so ALL are FREE to come dwell with God eternally. However, as a prime attribute of God's perfection, NONE are forced either TO Him or AWAY from Him! God's plan for our choice between eternal Happiness and eternal misery, and ranges of opportunity inbetween (Jesus said in His Father's house are many mansions) is perfect! Talk with missionaries of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for more details on God's plan and the restored gospel/religion of Jesus Christ!
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As a member of the LDS church I want to thanks the Community of Christ church for maintaining and caring for the buildings and documents over the 180 ish years. I am thankful for our shared heritage and love for our prophet Joseph Smith. I thank you and love you
You're welcome ❤
@@helenezeigler3665are you a community of christ member?
Yes, and so were my parents, grandparents and Great- Grandparents. ❤
I like how you said "the" lds church then mention the shared heritage. Most of the stuff bought was probably burnt so we will never know the truth. this wasn't a purchase it was a hostage situation.
The Salt Lake Mormons generously funded the upkeep of the Kirtland Temple over the years.
Thank you for providing such such a great report. It is super exciting! Thank you to our sister church for giving us the opportunity to care for these sacred gifts.
I too wish to thank the Community of Christ for being such wonderful caretakers and welcoming when visiting the Kirtland temple of of these other properties and items. I am glad to know that my faith will do the same in caretaking and extending the opportunity for all to visit.
Thank you for covering the topic so well! I love all your content and appreciate your eloquent speaking style! I'm thrilled with the purchase and appreciate your gratitude to the Community of Christ for their integrity.
Tears and Gratitude from the Island of Tonga and all LDS members.
If my final communication to my wife is "I am resigned to my lot knowing I am justified and have done the best that could be done. Give my love to the children." I will have lived a full life!
wow! Thank you! (most importantly, respect to the Community of Christ Church)
So grateful for the Community of Christ Church for their care & keeping of everything involved in this transaction. Thank you for this in-depth review of this and your research that we can tie into. Well done! (your review was concise, & well paced. Awesome.)
As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints I want to express my full gratitude to the Community of Christ Church I am out of words.
I went to a Fireside tonight by one of the LDS persons involved in the assets sale and he said that the Community of Christ were on board with the transfer from 2021. A lot of their members of the C.of C faith felt heartbroken. To any of the those good people , please know that our intentions are to preserve and restore the facilities. It will take a great deal of money to preserve these beautiful, but fragile pieces of not only religious history, but American and World history. Thanks for your long stewardship in the caring of the Lords House.
This is very significant. Thanks for putting this together.
Great reporting, thank you! So grateful to hear this news. THANK YOU to the Community of Christ for preserving this sacred building!! One note: please do not abbreviate the Doctrine and Covenants when speaking of it. Thanks!
When Brigham Young baptized my ancestors in Canada they moved to Kirkland. There are some records of them being taught by Joseph Smith in the Kirkland temple. For historical purposes it is nice to see that this building will be preserved for many more years. I'm of the belief that the period of gathering into a single location has passed. The scriptures declaring that in the last days the New Jerusalem would be established in the tops of the mountains clearly meant that these Eastern sites would be abandoned. I've always liked the statement that the bible is not religion but the history of religion. It is much more important how we treat our neighbors today. I'm glad that my church was able to help the Community of Christ in their current time of need. I expect that we will continue to maintain these great historical locations as the Community of Christ has done.
It is KIRTLAND, not kirkland!!!
@@susanmcconnell6041 People get the second K from the Walmart Sam's Club brand named Kirkland. I still sometimes confuse Kirtland Air Force Base with having a K, for this reason...lol. Both Kirtland Air Force Base and Kirtland, Ohio have the T, one K.
It is interesting how amicable the relationship is between the two churches. 100 or so years ago, the relationship was very adversarial and bitter. I'm pleased that today, we consider our religious cousins of the CofC as friends. Without good relations, this transfer of historic buildings etc. would have been very unlikely.
Community of Christ was so nice. My friends and I worked in sales in Kirtland. We spent time at the temple and visitors center and they were so kind and answered all our questions. We formed a good relationship with them. Honestly, I think I initially misjudged them and I'm glad I got to meet some of their kind members!
I agree, CoC members are very nice and were super cool when we toured the Kirtland Temple some years ago, and admitted, the Temple has not been restored as it should, and said some 99% of people who come visit the Kirtland Temple, are Latter-day Saints as CoC members are very small in number and don't have much interest in it.
@@RussellFineArt 100%
This was a false sale - this was NOT approved by the ACTUAL BODY OF THE COMMUNITY OF CHRIST.
Yeah almost sad we won't be able to run into them as much anymore for tours :(
I served my LDS mission in Minnesota where there is a good population of CoC members. Very happy to have been able to meet and talk with some of their members.
Such a exciting time for the Church.
I'm not a Mormon but this is amazing to hear! Glad the LDS can protect history as well as their have artifacts to show on what happened with Joseph Smith and early Mormon history
More truth will come out, hope bednar sees it as it comes.
No they won’t. They’ll now totally control the narrative
one of their "prophets" ( the grand-nephew of Joseph, the grandson of Hyrum) cut a page out of Joseph's journal to hide their history from members and outsiders. That is just one example of many, they have engaged in historical revisionism throughout their entire history.
The Kirtland Temple is not set up for modern Endowment ceremonies. We couldn't convert it over to that use without destroying the original integrity of that sacred space. I've always thought that if the Church ever bought the Kirtland Temple, it would be best to just continue to keep it open for tours.
Not a good idea to alter the temple for weird practices and goofy hand shakes. 😜
Yeah feels like it's mostly setup for the assembly hall. With good things to continue on in the next one! :)
AGREE
@@jake8882😢,QUE EL SEÑOR DERRAME BENDICIONES SOBRE USTED.
@@hectorfedericovazquezmarro9568 Gracias!!! Mucho!!
So absolutely wonderful, I am excited to hear more beautiful stories about this amazing transaction.
In Jesus Christ; I'm very excited about the purchase of the Kirkland Church by the Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints, and everything thing that came with it.
I just subscribed to Scripture Pluse in hopes to hear more presentations by sister Rappley . She is a wonderful teacher .
I understand the Kirtland Temple will remain a historical building for open tours. Another temple in nearby Cleveland, Ohio will be a modern temple for Temple Recommend holding Church members in the near future.
I am SOOOO EXCITED about this acquisition!! I’m so grateful to the Church of Christ for their stewardship of these amazing artifacts and buildings!!
Not the Church Of Christ ……Community of Christ.
I think you covered the topic very well.
It’s interesting to note that through the tithes of the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are what made possible filling in the gaps of the lack of tithes from the members of the Community of Christ.
Remarkable summary. Thank you!
Hoorah for Israel!!!
This is wonderful news!
God bless our cousins in The Community of Christ Church for being willing to share these sacred spaces with us!
❤️☀️
Church history is definitely eye opening.
The Kirtland Temple was not designed for Baptisms, Endowments and Sealings so modifying it for regular temple worship would not work. Tearing it down to build a modern temple would be a desecration, and would never be considered. It's meaning was the unfolding of the Restoration, and that is important enough to preserve it.
Yes. Those elements were added later.
Plus they are already building a temple near by so there really isn't a strong need for that to happen in Kirtland.
I'm not a Mormon but I am very much in historical research and ancestry things. I am glad that something like this has been returned to the rightful people/church/organization. I myself was deprived of learning about my Slovak culture from my aunt but when I discovered through family search and ancestry DNA I felt the same way like my history and legacy was returned to me and it no longer belonged to just my aunt. Kudos to that
If you aren't a Mormon, why do you consider The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the "rightful" people? The Community of Christ, as well as several other sects of Mormonism have the same history as the Brighamite branch. Did you know the Community of Christ used to be called the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and was started by Joseph Smith's first wife and their son?
It's just an odd comment.
This was not "rightly returned". This was purchased for a gigantic sum of money from a community that it belonged to...
@jaybravo2199 Maybe we are the rightful owners because the front of the temple reads "built by the Latter Day Saints," and the community of Christ abandoned that title over 20 years ago.
@@BrianTerrill I don’t know if you are being serious. The brighamite branch is the rightful owner because they paid a butt load of money for it.
@@BrianTerrilland the LDS church abandoned the name Mormon, but still claim lots of things with that name slapped on it. Bit of a silly argument.
Like so many others, I could have cried when I read this
Photograph of the Kirtland Temple in the background, time stamp 1:25 through 1:48, by Michael Provard.
Community of Christ we are so grateful for your service but I am still not sure of the source of disagreement
There are probably a number of reasons for the
After Joseph Smith died the church divided between those who wanted to stay in Nauvoo and those who wanted to leave. Many disagreed with Brigham Young’s decision to leave and so formed their own church. James Jesse Strang began what would become the Reorganised Church, claiming that he’d received instruction from Joseph Smith that he was to be the next president of the church. Brigham Young, as you’d expect, did not agree. That was the first big disagreement.
The second disagreement was over Strang’s claim that at some point, when old enough, the church should be led by a descendant of Joseph Smith and would then continue to be so. Brigham Young, however, had received revelation that in the absence of a prophet the president of the Quorum Of The Twelve would lead the church (which is what Young was at the time) and he later set the precedent that the President of the Quorum Of The 12 would succeed the presidency of the church o. The death of the previous church president. The LDS still practice this today. Likewise, after Joseph Smith III became the president of the Reirganised Church, every president was a direct descendent of Joseph Smith until 1996.
There were also a number of disagreements over doctrine. Many members of the reorganised church opposed some of the changes that Brigham Young was introducing to the temple ordinances (including a lot of the symbolism that the LDS church uses today) and favoured the much simpler ordinances and practices that Joseph Smith first instituted. Many of the Saints who remained in Nauvoo were also anti-polygamy, at a time when the LDS church still practiced it. Indeed both Emma Smith and Joseph Smith III remained anti-polygamy until their dying day and denied that Joseph Smith ever committed it (something you’ll never here in the LDS church is the fact that Emma Smith was unaware of most of Joseph’s other marriages and was adamant that the details were all made up by Brigham Young after Joseph’s death). Interestingly, Strang started practicing polygamy which drove many of his followers towards Joseph Smith III who condemned the practice.
As the Reorganised Church continued it also became more Protestant in its leanings. By 1984 they even opened up the Priesthood to women.
Interestingly, Joseph Smith III always claimed that the Reorganised Church followed the pattern set by Joseph Smith closely whilst Brigham Young and the Latter Day Saints were distorting, changing and adding to what Joseph Smith had established. One thing that is sure, the church and the way it was organised was never the same after Brigham Young assumed leadership.
So, to summarise, the disagreement was a combination of a power play following a leadership vacuum, a rejection of Brigham Young and many of his ideas, a desire to stay in Nauvoo and fundamental doctrinal differences. But the two churches have long been united at least by a shared love of Joseph Smith and the Book Of Mormon, even if nothing else.
So helpful! And thorough! Love this! Thank you!!
Your enthusiasm is contagious.
What a great blessing to all the people of the world moving forward.
Why is it great blessing to all the people of the world? Be specific.
I don't understand... why does this benefit the world?
Please answer the two previous commentor's question......Thanx
Why is this a blessing to the world.
I agree, if we don't know and understand the past how can we possibly know and understand our present or our future.
The paintings of Joseph and Emma were in the community of Christ book store in their independence Missouri temple when I visited in 2012. Odd location for them, I thought at the time. I had an amazing spiritual experience in connection with seeing the pictures that day. Really glad the Church of Jesus Christ now owns them.
By the time I saw the paintings it was not in a book store but rather in a museum, (in the same area and close to the book store in their temple in Independence. The Liberty Jail door was also in the museum and so were many other cool things.
This one of the biggest last days action that needs to happen before the Savior returns. We are still a way off from that return but this is one of those latter day happenings that brings in the last of the final days.
Why do you say that? Can you cite an alleged prophecy or claim that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints purchasing the Kirtland Temple is a "sign of the time"?
@jaybravo2199 I can but it would take some time typing them. I am a church history major and religious scholar but you would need to read every book I have to understand. I can help you if you like.
@@RICREYNOLDSMUSIC ahhh… you’ve read enough between the lines to find an obscure connection… sounds like the start to every fringe religion and cult to have ever started.
@@jaybravo2199 Every religion on earth has been started by a man. Even your church. The only difference is there is one true God.
@@RICREYNOLDSMUSIC and whose version of God is the one true God? Those belonging to Islaam, Judaism, Buddhism, any of the countless flavors of Christianity?
What an awesome video!! Thank you for this valuable info!
I am so excited that this has come to pass
So exciting!!
I wondered if the day would come. The money to the community of Christ they really needed to keep their missions etc. I know they needed money. It's an exciting time for both churches
The Community of Christ is slipping into insolvency. While their cover story is about missions, in reality they need the money to pay their pension fund. More and more of their buildings are falling apart because they do not have the money to fix them. Their ultra-Liberal position has drove away many of their membership.
If they’re an apostate church why would you wish them well?
Are you serious? We wish all churches well. There are so many good people in good churches tryi no not do what they feel is best. Just because we know they are missing a lot of the truth doesn’t mean they we should wish them bad. We are still having more truth revealed to us daily too. So yes, wish them the best and be grateful we are in such a good position to do so much good and to help them out along with millions of others every year!
@@bball84095 Nephi said there are only 2 churches. The true church and everything else, the whore of all the earth. Have you ever read Joseph Smith’s writings? He stated his role was to rid the world of false teachings (false churches)!
You may wish the people well but we do NOT support, condone, uphold, recognize other churches. the original comment state they’re happy that the other church now has money to continue their false teachings and missions. Completely wrong!!
@@bball84095 TH-cam scrubbed my comment because I quoted Nephi. We wish people well all over the world and yes even in other churches. But the churches themselves we do NOT wish well! Nephi stated there are only two churches, the true church and everything thing else. Nephi uses a word that TH-cam will not allow. Joseph Smith taught that his role was to abolish false teachings (false churches)!
The original comment stated they’re happy that the rlds will now have money to continue their false teachings and missions. That is completely wrong!
I know the new church generation is afraid to be politically incorrect and afraid to be bold or courageous as it used to be. This is not your grandparents Mormon church!
The JST or Joseph Smith Translation, has been really downplayed in the LDS religion, partially because the copyright was owned by the Community of Christ Church. I think we will look a lot deeper into this scripture now. It is actually not a translation but more rightly called the Inspired version. It corrects many inconsistencies in the Bible and offers much more insight into the teachings of Jesus Christ. I guess that is what Prophets are for: explaining the deeper meanings.
One thing I have liked is how much the foot notes of the LDS copy of the New Testament refers us to the inspired version of the NT.
Im trying to find that quote you said from Bednar, cant know the truth without knowing our past. Whered you see that???
these details show the hand of Christ in the dealings of the community of Christ one example is the fact that Joseph Smith III went and made friends with those in the regions where the saints had been driven from whereas the Utah church still holds an unjustified victimh and siege mentality regarding these events. In a Sunday school manual published by the community of Christ they say straight up we were partly at fault and they do on behalf of the Utah church since there was no separation in those days. This spirit of Christ still persists in their culture.
If you would indulge a question please ; What
is the difference between a rite and a ritual?
I understand that 1 has a more positive and uplifting connotation.And the other the opposite!
Appreciate the post. There are other pictures of Joseph and Emma. My family owned the original paintings which shows JS in his general uniform and separate picture of Emma in a dress. JS wrote about posing for this in his journal. We owned the paintings at the same time that this picture was on the front page of the Ensign.
I hope if you have a original you would consider to give them to church so all could enjoy
Did it go somewhere? :)
To the Community of Christ, congratulations on your fire sale!
Amazing news. I would love to have you as our Sunday school teacher!
That you for this update.
Thankfully the Community of Christ Church sold all of this to the LDS Church. I'd really like to see the COC Church dissolve and intergrate ( join) into the mainstream LDS Church. They certainly are our Brothers and Sisters.
I'd rather see them succeed and be happy in their belief system.
The differences in doctrine would make that quite unlikely. Huge differences.
Actually Ward Radio covered this a few hours after the sale and closing on all this, they went into depth on the whole pkg. you present a great shorter version . Thank you Sister ❤️
Oof, I'll listen to Jasmine and ScripturePlus any day over Ward Radio, LOLZ!
Elder Bruce R. McConkie explained why Elias appeared in the Kirtland Temple: The man Elias brings back “the gospel of Abraham,” the great Abrahamic covenant whereby the faithful receive promises of eternal increase, promises that through celestial marriage their eternal posterity shall be as numerous as the sands upon the seashore or as the stars in heaven for multitude. (Bruce R. McConkie, “The Keys of the Kingdom,” Ensign, May 1983, 22
Was there a reason that Elias was omitted in your comments?
I would hazard a guess that its a problematic part of the story... Jospeh claimed both Elias and Elijah came to visit, when in fact "Elias" is merely the Greek name of the Hebrew prophet "Elijah."
Now all we need to do is purchase Temple Lot I hope Prophet Nelson gets this done .
Cause…Jesus just can’t come back until the LDS church owns it again and builds a temple there?
The Community of Christ does not own the Temple Lot. The Church of Christ (originally known as The Church of Christ Temple Lot) owns the 300 sq. ft. lot. But we know the Prophet will be able to acquire it when the Lord wants it done. .
@@VaLynne1 That didn’t answer my question.
Great info. I'm not sure why you would even suggest or put it your listeners mind that this could have been a hostile take over!?
Agreed. I thought that odd and a dis-service to the whole presentation.
That would be cool to have a general conference televised from the Kirtland temple
I was thinking about the upcoming Relief Society broadcast that is scheduled for the anniversary of the organization of the Relief society, which was organized on March 17, 1842, upstairs in the Red Brick Store. It would be amazing if they broadcast that event from the Red brick Store. . I think it is awesome that The Church of Jesus Christ was able to acquire the Red Brick Store, just 12 days before the Relief Society birthday of March 17th. I have been to Kirtland and Nauvoo both, several times but not since 2021, and because of lack of money, the Community of Christ was unable to staff the Kirtland Temple and Red Brick Store so did not get to go into either at that time ( Shortly after that Return Senior Missionaries would go to Kirtland and offer to give tours for free. They were able to do so under the direction of the CoChrist. I am going again in September to Nauvoo I am looking forward to going though the buildings with missionaries called to serve there.
I went to Kirkland Temple twice in 2022, now I want to go again. I most likely will in 2025. I live in Wyoming close to Mormon Pioneer trail. I am a Church History buff and love going to the sites.
@@VaLynne1 I have never been to any church sites. How blessed you are to be able to go. Peace
It’s too small for conferences. The faithful won’t fit in!
Loved your presentation and enthusiasm! I am wondering if mentioning the Savior appearing to the Prophet Joseph and Oliver, then Elijah, Moses, with no mentioning of Elias, all three translated Prophets restoring keys of the Priesthood necessary for the gathering of scattered Iseral and Sealing powers. I'm just wondering.. NOT criticism!
I am happy to have the temple but sad for the Community of Christ. that had to be a hard decision to make!
really changing the Kirtland temple into a post Nauvoo temple would destroy the historical context of the building, as well it would be to small to do so
“We’re getting a door!” 😂
Happy the church owns now what really belongs to the church after all the community of Christ came from the members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the past. My prayers for the community of Christ🙏
With all due respect to the CofC church, I have a friend who was a member of that church and she told me a ton about it and said very few people attend anymore, and almost no members pay tithing anymore either, leaving their church near-bankrupt and deeply in debt. The CofC church has been selling off most all of their properties and assets in the past decade, as they move to being a very small secular Christian sect and away from the restoration beliefs. The CofC's constitution, established by Joseph Smith III, in the late 1800's, stated, ONLY descendants of Joseph Smith Jr. can be president and prophet of their church. That changed in the 1980's with a non-Smith appointed president. Other core doctrines changed as well, causing mass exodus' of members, which they've never recovered. The Church of Jesus Christ is preparing to purchase ALL of the land around the temple site in Independence from the CofC and Temple Lot church's, and already has the design completed for the massive Temple of Zion there, and new church headquarter buildings. We have a friend who worked as a chief architect for the church who described, in detail, the New Jerusalem Temple in Independence, which its 40 story high steeple and 12 domes surrounding the steeple, acting as a Temple and a learning center, and other details, including a stone wall around the Temple grounds with 12 separate gates, with each Israelite tribe's name over each entrance. The Temple alone with take up many acres. Pretty exciting times ahead!
The Community of Christ wasn't as sheltered as well as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is to absorb membership loss and a decreasing tithing income.
They don''t have very many members total, only about 250,000 (according to their web site) so if most are not paying tithing it would be hard for them to continue their mission of world peace.
As for CoC... I understand they now have a woman as their President (Prophet?)
@@l7846 yes, in 1984 the Community of Christ recognized women as capable and eligible to be ordained to the priesthood.
In comparison, 1984 was the first year The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints allowed women to speak in general conference.
@l7846 A woman is not the president but I understand five of their apostles are women.
Does the Community of Christ still have property in Independence that we would be interested in?
Of the 63 acres the Community of Christ owns most of it, with the LDS Church owning the 2nd largest part. There is a big auditorium that they own that is kitty corner from their Temple, and across the street from the LDS Visitor Center. The Church did not acquire it, but it is not something the church needs nor does it have any historical value.
The 300X200 sq ft. Temple Lot that Joseph Smith dedicated for the Temple, that is kitty corner from the LDS Visitor center and just a short walk to go to it, is not owned by either the Community of Christ nor The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It is owned by a church originally called The Church of Christ Temple Lot but is now known as The Church of Christ.. The original corner markers that Joseph placed there at the time of dedication of the lot, have been removed by The Church of Christ to prevent them from being stolen. They are in their little church and they do allow you to come in and see them.
@@VaLynne1 Great answer! I won't say that the Lord will not eventually reclaim every part of land prophesied to be inheritance, whether by purchase in advance or after His return, that they aren't needed and without historical value. However, not much was developed there in the Saints' time there, just the corner markers and maybe some cabin homes long ago destroyed and/or removed. At least as late as the 1980's the church would still actively buy land in Jackson County, to establish legal inheritance, following that the Doctrine and Covenants talks about purchasing the land.
I grew up in Independence, Missouri. Both my parents converted to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints at ages 23 and 19 before they married, so I was raised in the church. I have many friends from the Community of Christ (formerly the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) and I especially like the Restoration Branch that broke away from the RLDS before it became the Community of Christ.
I wonder what the status is of Church History sites in Independence.
In my opinion, the characters from the gold plates on that sheet of paper were written by someone who looked at them upside down. On the fourth line character three or four from the left is a line and under it four dots, that's the msya number nine but typically the line would be under the dots nit over them which makes me think the gold plates were written right to left and those looking at them were looking at them upside down left to right.
…and who actually saw them? The witnesses all saw with “spiritual eyes”
@HelloUser1 well said. I find it fascinating that the church only cherry picks history and glossea over the real issues with things like the first vision account(S) the book of.abraham mis translation, the D&C 132 issues. The stone im the hat problems etc. To say the least and many others I won't have time to address. I find that this is a great addition to the collection. Wonder why we can't get the gold plates back from the angel that took them and the sword of Laban. I want to see those artifacts
If you saw them tomorrow I'm sure you'd just find something else to knock, ridicule,not believe in, ask to see, etc etc...people who must be shown all things with their eyes, and prove all things materially have little to no faith and will never be satisfied with"proof" of anything...
@rdancranston so you believe in the Easter bunny I'm sure.
@@rdancranston you see I believed in Santa Claus until I was 8. I found out I was lied to. The church lied and continues to lie to protect the good name. So many issues and not enough truth. Let's find truth.
I hope I can have an opportunity to help in the Renovation.
What's your trade/skill? I'm an electrician and so badly want some day to help build a temple with my skills!
Carpenter.from Tonga.
I still feel that us LDS , COC and the Strangites could Reunify difficult yes but not impossible
Either the COC would need to stop ordaining women to the priesthood... their current prophet is a woman... or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints would have to start ordaining women. I don't see either happening.
I love that in 3 Nephi Jesus blesses the saints of that day with clear instruction on how baptism should be done without condemning or shaming those who were doing it incorrectly prior. I hope and pray wonderful dissenters of all faiths believing in Joseph Smith (at least up to various points) and the Book of Mormon-Another Testament of Jesus Christ will survive end-time destructions and be lovingly welcomed, corrected and blessed in a similar way. Prophecies say this will happen for the house of Judah, the Jews, and I hope for sincere followers and believers in God of EVERY religion and faith in the world, that Jesus will correct the doctrinal errors and unite all lovers of God and good!
When my family visited the Kirtland Temple last year, we weren't allowed to go in the second level. I seem to remember them saying it was never fully finished or there were some structural concerns. Would the church ever do some renovations? Would the Community of Christ be ok with that?
3rd level that was never fully restored. I have been to the 2nd level many times...just last October being the most recent. .
I too have been to the 2nd level my most recent was in 2021. I plan on going in 2025. And now that the Community of Christ does not own it any more, Why would they not be okay with it? An apostle of the Community of Christ shows the 2nd floor to the whole world a few days before the sale and so I really don't see how it would be an issue now? th-cam.com/video/w7KLlPPw33M/w-d-xo.html
The 2nd floor is in good shape but the 3rd floor, basically storage area from what we were told, was not restored. But as far as "Would the community of Christ be okay with that," make as much sense as you remodeling your house after buying it from a family who had previously owned it. I don't think the previous owners would care one way or the other what you do with it now that they don't own it, as long as they knew you loved it as much as they had and wanted to make it nicer, not tear it apart. And I am pretty sure the Community of Christ knows The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints would never want to do anything to take away from the Temple. I think The Church of Jesus Christ is planning on making some repairs the Community of Christ has been unable to afford to do.
Please is someone having some documentation about the difference between these two churches 😊
After Joseph Smith Jr was martyred, the Twelve Apostles took the leadership role. The President of that body at the time was Brigham Young. (Later he would reconstitute a new First Presidency.) At a large meeting in which he and other would-be leaders spoke, some in the audience reported him taking on the voice or appearance of Joseph Smith.
The Apostles were responsible for leading missionary efforts in other parts of the US, Canada, Britain, Denmark, etc., so the membership in those places almost entirely followed the apostles. This became The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which relocated across the Plains to Salt Lake City.
But it's worth noting that many in Nauvoo did not. The several other would-be leaders gathered their own flocks. Some stayed in that area. Some traveled back to Missouri, or to Texas, or Wisconsin, or other locations. A decade later, Joseph Smith III (who was a child when his father died) claimed the role of Prophet and President of the church was meant to be hereditary. He gathered people from many of these scattered groups into The Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They rejected plural marriage and other practices that developed in the Nauvoo era, like the temple ceremonies. They largely focused on the Kirtland era of the early church, and moved their headquarters to Independence, Missouri.
Thanks so much for this answer. Full of enlightening. But now... the community of Christ do not have ceremony in temple, isn’t it ? Are they believe in the BOM and D&C and the pearl of great price ?
@@TheFranchiseCA Excellent answer!
Well done
You said to check out the other vid on the characters document. I'm searching everywhere and can't find it!
Not sure if that document of the original letters, from the BoM, is a faith building item.
My gr. Grandfather John tanner. Helped to pay off the temple debt. Jared
Some people I know have complained about how much money the Church purchased all these buildings and items for. They say it’s a waist or a frivolous thing to spend our tithing on, and that money should be spent on helping the poor. What could I say in response to that?
The Lord has preserved these places and these people for his own purposes.. I know that there will be truths in the documents that the brighamites never got the privilege of having until now.. The Lords purposes will continue to roll forward.. ..
As I understand it, the documents were never secret and have been published before.
I would be disappointed if the LDS Church (of which I am a member) EVER converted the Kirkland Temple to a "working" temple because that was not done there originally and I feel like the building needs to be preserved in it's original condition. This is one. of the few buildings from that era that is not a restoration...but a preservation of the original. This building was built only 40 years after the US Capitol Building in Washington. For the Church it has that historic significance.
The church announced it will be kept as a historical site, free of charge to all who wish to come. That is one of the big blessings because when the Community of Christ owed it they had to charge so that they could pay the guides who took you through. This will be a blessing to the members of the Community of Christ as well as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
@@VaLynne1 I'll miss those paid guides. They were knowledgable and weren't shy about answering any questions presented and were able to expound upon things ignored by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
In contrast, I've found missionaries at other church owned historic sites tend to know very little beyond the script they are given.
For all those of you who are worried about speed, just go into the "SETTINGS" gear on the video and change the speed of the replay. Works like a charm!!!
They could build a new Temple on the land near the Nauvoo Temple ♡
You mean Kirtland Temple? Maybe fix with an edit or delete and repost. Love and blessings!
March 5 is a day to be celebrated. And yes, I think getting a lot of the documents, especially the JST materials, is as big a deal as getting the historic sites back in our control so they can be properly maintained and the history properly presented. (If you look at the CoC video tour of the Kirtland Temple, they completely leave out the visit of Christ, Moses, Elias and Elijah to restore their priesthood keys, which I believe was one of the purposes for the Kirtland Temple.)
Your are right, I have been to the Kirtland Temple when all tours were made by the Community of Christ paid tour guides, and they do not mention any of the spiritual things that occurred there. But That visit was not just "one of the purposes of the Kirtland Temple, it was THE purpose of the Temple. No Baptisms or fullness of any of the ordinances were done there. Joseph did do "partial ordinances." but not the fulness. The Lord wanted it built so that Elijah, Elias, Moses and others could bring the keys to Joseph.
@@VaLynne1 "Elias" is merely the Greek name of the Hebrew prophet "Elijah." Thus, Joseph Smith made a fatal error by having Elias and Elijah be two different people, when they are in fact one and the same.
Does the LDS church consider the RLDS/CofC folks as brethren in the faith?
Kinda like distant neighbors? I don't have a perfect answer for this...We kinda hung out with other youth missionaries of theirs in Nauvoo when I was there, they taught us some fun camp songs, but church wise it's like non intersect somehow...? :)
Is there anything left in Nauvoo that the Community of Christ owns besides the Smith Family cemetery?
the cemetery was included in the deal!
apparently the nauvoo cemetery wasn't?@@JohnDLee-im4lo
Love the info but had to turn on CC to understand bc you spoke so fast!
If the church began using the Kirkland temple as a fully functional temple wouldn't that require it be remodeled in the interior? This would't be good. Leave it as close as possible the way it was in Joseph Smith's day.
If this area needs a temple, build an other temple please.
The Kirtland temple isn't even large enough for such purposes, even with a massive renovation. The Cleveland temple has already been announced, with land purchased for it, and the Church has confirmed that is still the plan for the area.
Since the land is 13 acres big, they could build a small temple on the lot, or wait to buy other land in Kirtland for the same purpose.
*Makeup Pearls* had a dream with this temple before she returned to the church.
Lds church will be changed for ever 😃to have a connection
We got it back, baby! March 5th, 2024, will never be forgotten. The Savior will return in our lifetime.
Why do you say that?
How long before the president of the LDS church his two counselors and the 12 apostles go to the temple in Kirtland, Ohio to counsel with the Lord?
But the Intellectual Reserve Church will need to turn everything over to those who have the real priesthood authority since they lost it over the past 130 years.
@@KB-nv4bl if you notice history you will see that Lorenzo Snow sadly recognized that the Lord was no longer able to give them revelation through his experiences in the Salt Lake Temple that we hear a modified version of regarding his appearance therein. The Intellectual Reserve Church has lost its way and it has progressively gotten worse over the past 130 years and it has to be restored yet again by faithful preservers of the priesthood once the Lord either cleans out the Intellectual Reserve or entirely restores it again.
That’s exactly what Joseph Smith said. 200 years ago
$192 M. Totally Worth it!!! 💖
Pretty cool purchases. Can't wait to visit the sites. I wonder how many documents and artifacts were included in this purchase. Will the church share EVERYTHING they purchased or will they hide some of it? Unfortunately, the church has a history of hiding documents and artifacts that they feel could challenge members' faith. I hope they do not do this.
Actually the Church never hid anything, anti Mormons claimed the Church hid them but the anti's got the information from the same place any one could have found it if they wanted to see it.
The Church did make everything more accessible when they did the Joseph Smith Papers, but that didn't mean it was hidden before the Joseph Smith Papers Project began. It made the anti's very upset because now it is too easy for any and everyone to find things that the antis claim the church was hiding. Pictures of the seer stones that Joseph used was in the Ensign many years ago but then recently someone said that, the Church had been hiding the that Joseph used seer stones to translate the Book of Mormon. What was really sad is that so many idiots out there actually believed the antis rather than look at the back issues of the Ensign.
@@VaLynne1 What truly is sad is you calling people idiots, let alone your gross lack of understanding of the issue at hand.
Who needs an organized group of antis with members calling people idiots, right?
The sale will not help the RLDS/C of C church because it's been dying a slow death for decades, all due to leadership wanting to become a modern progressive 'social justice' church and the membership not accepting the change in direction. I saw the beginnings of this in my home branch in Australia as the drive for women in the priesthood split the church, families and friends apart. RIP.
Good post, but you forgot Elias also appeared in the Kirtland Temple. Otherwise, a very entertaining post.
This transaction is the beginning of the end for Community of Christ’s existence. Granted, since I was a member of the RLDS Church, their membership roles have dwindled significantly and are still dwindling.
Hi, Nolan! I am Josiah. I grew up in Independence. Did you live there? If so, I am wondering how the Restoration Branches are doing there, who broke away from the RLDS Church before it became the Community of Christ? Dennis Cato was an RLDS pastor and my coach's pitch baseball coach for a couple of my childhood years; he, his family and some in his extended family converted to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the late 1980's. He eventually became my parents' bishop and later stake president! Do you know them, if you happened to live there?
@@LiveHappy76 Hi, Josiah. I’ve never been to Independence. As far as the break offs of the RLDS Church, I didn’t know that any have survived.
It's more like reaquiring lost property.
I am absolutely baffled by the response. I don’t know why this is good news. I see it as more financial burden to us than anything else.
The church has money in spades to be able to do this.
@@LiveHappy76 I'd love to see a citation for that claim... The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has more than enough money to have paid for this without having to impact their overall portfolio.
Edited to add: after reviewing the press releases related to this sale, the church did in fact facilitate the purchase.
@LiveHappy76... why would you claim otherwise?
@@jaybravo2199 Hi, Jay. (My name's Josiah.) I apologize, I was in error. I already deleted my posts under this video where I said this purchase was funded by private donors (I posted it about 4 times). Only last month, I read and saw press and media about the church's acquisition in 2017 of the original printer's manuscript of the Book of Mormon-Another Testament of Jesus Christ, also from the Community of Christ. That purchase was made, with a few other items, for $35 million by private donors who bought it to give it to the church. Having that recently in my mind, I confused the two purchases and made the mistaken posts.
I appreciate your civility and generally open attitudes I've seen in your many posts. I see you are strong academically/in critical thinking. I just sent a prayer your way that you will doubt your doubts more than you might doubt your faith. If you aren't already familiar with it, please, watch Elder Lawrence E. Corbridge's BYU devotional talk delivered Jan. 22, 2019, th-cam.com/video/NSEsLtwKzvw/w-d-xo.html He talks about maintaining faith by maintaining focus on the primary, essential gospel/spiritual/doctrinal questions and exercising faith and flexibility on the rest. God is a perfect God working His plan among imperfect people in a fallen world.
SO AMAZING. I AM A MEMBER. I LOVE THIS NEWS.❤
Temples have become tourist destinations. "Gotta see em all!"
I’m hoping and praying the church leaves the Kirkland temple open to all as a historic site :-)
When they announced the acquisition they also announced it would be open to all, free of charge as a historic site, like all Church historical sites. It is closed now but will reopen this month on March 25th,
Thank you for not having background music. Thank you for sharing this information and your opinions. Just some feedback, slow down. There's no reason to slur your words and talk that fast. It does not come across as confident. It comes across as unprofessional and nervous. Slow down. You have a good message to deliver.
They will redo it to use as temple
What evidence do you have that Jesus and Isaiah made appearances at the Kirtland Temple?
Only people's written records in journals and also the record published in the Doctrine and Covenants. God never has, never will show Himself *in a form of glory and power* to the world, generally and openly, not until Jesus' Second Coming. Even with Moses, Moses alone saw and spoke with God at the top of Sinai and God was obscured by a cloud of smoke by day and a pillar of fire by night during the exodus of Israel. The purpose that God does not openly reveal Himself is so that we mortals can be tested by and show faith necessary to prepare those who do for God's great blessings of eternal life for those who work their way past/through the darkness of Satan's lies and our sinful, wicked natures. God cannot allow impurely acting and impurely motivated people, including Satan and his angels, into His heaven and throne room, otherwise they would destroy it. Justice separates good/righteous/clean from bad/unrighteous/unclean and Mercy/Grace allow all unclean to wash clean through Jesus Christ, so ALL are FREE to come dwell with God eternally. However, as a prime attribute of God's perfection, NONE are forced either TO Him or AWAY from Him! God's plan for our choice between eternal Happiness and eternal misery, and ranges of opportunity inbetween (Jesus said in His Father's house are many mansions) is perfect! Talk with missionaries of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for more details on God's plan and the restored gospel/religion of Jesus Christ!