I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and I'd like to offer a hand in fellowship to "mourn with those who mourn" (Mosiah 9:40, CoC edition). When I first learned that my church leadership bought the kirtland temple and other properties from yours last week on Steven Pynakker's youtube channel, I can honestly say that my first reaction, after getting over the shock, was immense grief and pain on behalf of Community of Christ. Although our churches have had their differences and tension over the years, I've grown to feel a powerful sense of fellowship and love for my spiritual cousins in the Josephite tradition - especially after discovering that one of my own 4th great grandfathers and his wife joined the Reorganized church after moving to Idaho in the late 19th century. Any possible feelings of excitement or joy that my faith community now has ownership of these properties are completely outweighed by my pain. John, thank you for your ministry. This youtube channel has been a valuable resource for me in my own faith journey, and I pray for your solace in this grief. I wish you and your community well in your ministry in the future, and I hope that this sale will be able to stabilize Community of Christ finances for decades to come.
Thank you so much for your hand of fellowship and grace, my beloved cousin in the Restoration, shared with such considerate intention here at the waters of Mormon in Mosiah: "now when the people had heard these words, they clapped their hands for joy." Your words have brought tears to my eyes again, but of joy. Thank you.
@@HamerToronto You're very welcome. If anything uplifting came out of this news, let it be that Restoration cousins came together to transform grief into the joy of fellowship. Once again, my heart goes out in prayer for you.
I didn't realize how impactful John has been in my life until I found myself weeping for a man I've never met; for a loss I don't fully understand. But I do understand loss. And change. The congregation is blessed to have someone like you, John. PS: Your work has changed my worldview in a very positive way and helped me get through some pretty rough times the last couple years, that's for sure. Thank you for that. Keep your head up, sir.
As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and living in Kansas City very close to Independence, I have conflicting emotions. I understand the joy on one side, and acknowledge and try to empathize with the pain and feelings of loss on the other. I hate that it seems someone has to win and someone else has to lose. I don’t think that is what God wants. I think that God loves and appreciates all who serve Him, and all who even want to serve Him. I think he would have all of us comforted in any trial or tribulation. May we stand together as brothers and sisters now and forever. If now is a time that we might be able to offer a listening ear or a helping hand, know that the time will surely come that we need your help also. May God continue to bless all of his children, and particularly our brothers and sisters in the restoration movement.
As an LDS member, I visited Kirtland and the temple. I was so impressed with the manor in which the temple has been maintained. I also felt the warmth and friendliness of the members of the Community of Christ. I am so sorry for your loss, but know that the temple and other artifacts will continue to be cherished.
Every temple in the hands of the lds church is torn down and remodeled. They are never historically preserved but rather historic relics like original paintings and murals are painted ovee. Look no further than the salt lake temple remodel. Its a lie to believe that the LDS church will preserve it like the community of Christ has but rather they will control it.
I mourn with you. My heart is broken for you. But you are not the first people to have mourned that sacred building. When my great-great-grandfather, Frederick G. Williams, left there in 1838, I’m sure he looked back over his shoulder and experienced the same feelings you are feeling now. He had been in the planning from the beginning, and had witnessed the vision with Joseph and Sidney Rigdon of the temple in the distance, moving toward them and eventually coming right over them in a virtual reality experience where they saw every detail of the interior. During the dedication he witnessed the Savior himself come and sit between him and Father Smith, close enough for him to touch. He worked in that temple every day as a member of the first presidency. His children went to school in it. That building was, like many of your faith, a part of his everyday life. So my heart understands what you are going through. I hope you will still feel a part of it, even though you will no longer have responsibility for its upkeep. It will always be partly yours.
Sorry for the grief and loss . The heritage and spirit of those sacred sites will continue to be preserved. The community of Christ will always be welcome at the sites. As an lds member I'm grateful for CoC for preserving the sacred sites and hope it can always be a shared place amongst our shared history and love for Christ and His gospel. I'm glad that the CoC can still use the Kirkland temple for their special meetings and events.
I'm not religious, but I do understand your loss, and feel for you. The temple without human prayers is just a building full of memories, but that spiritual energy is alive while you are alive. Don't worry about the building, no one can take from you and your people the most sacred thing - the Temple inside of you, it will be always with you no matter what and no matter where. I also want to thank you for your outstanding lectures, they are priceless, thank you for sharing.
I'm a Latter Day Saint from Utah. I just want to say I'm so sorry for your loss. I understand this loss is so hard. Thank you for the many years your church took such good care of the Kirtland Temple, along with the Nauvoo properties and artifacts. I'm glad our church was able to help your church and good people (cousins in Christ and lovers of the restoration). I hope this endowment of funds helps put the Community of Christ on secure footing.
Post Joseph Smith's death. There was a question over whether the successor was supposed to be a descendent of Joseph Smith or the next senior apostle after the prophet. Kind of like the Sunni/Shiite thing. The LDS formed pretty much immediately from those who thought it should be the next senior Apostle (Brigham Young), CoC formed in 1860 from those who believed it was supposed to be one of Joseph Smith's descendents when Joseph Smith III was old enough to assume leadership. CoC maintained that leadership succession (J.S. descendents) until the 1980's. LDS maintains the same succession system (senior apostle) that they started with.
Dear Brother John: May the good Lord bless you and your fellow congregants with abiding peace and comfort at this time of great loss. One of my greatest spiritual experiences came in 2002 during the MHA Sunday service in the Kirtland temple when all of us-representing various expressions of the Restoration-sang together the original version of “The Spirit of God.” I rejoice in knowing that this sacred edifice will still be available to members of the Community of Christ for similar spiritual experiences into the future and on behalf of my fellow Latter-day Saints I thank you personally, along with so many others, for all you did over the years to care so faithfully for these sacred objects and spaces. I can only hope my church will do as well over the years to come until that glorious day when our common Lord and Savior returns to the earth and to that sacred edifice. -Roger Robin Ekins
Brother, I feel for your pain and anguish so eloquently expressed in your heartfelt words. As a young missionary 30 years ago for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints I served in the Kirtland area for a year. I spent a lot of time in and around the Kirtland Temple and grew to love it. I appreciated it before I first stepped inside of it but I came to love that sacred space as I spent time in it. I have always appreciated the kindness and friendship I developed in my youth with members of the Community of Christ. Few days have passed since that time 30 years ago where I have not thought about my time in Kirtland, in many respects it has had a profound spiritual impact on my life. When I heard the news this past Tuesday I wept tears of joy while at the same time you wept tears of sadness. May we all come together, all of us who love that sacred space in unity as children of a loving God. I pray that it can continue to be a place where our shared heritage can bring us together in our unified faith in the Son of the living God whom we all worship and whose name the Kirtland Temple honors. You and your community will continue to be in my prayers as we move forward.
I am not a believer, but I enjoy your lecture series so much. I've listened to several of them multiple times. I've made a small contribution to your cause out of appreciation.
Thank you for holding a space for those of us who are grieving. It brings so much solace to go through the process in community. Please keep doing what you're doing so well. You and your team are a beacon! Sending you all so much love!
John, this was an exquisite sermon, both in its pain and in its hope. I found myself sobbing as you led us to the greater meaning of “Beyond the Walls.” There are no words to express the many ways you bless and enlighten those, like me, who look to you for inspiration and sanity when it’s hard to find peace.
As an lds member I'm so very thankful for Church of Christ for preserving the sacred sites as SACRED SITES! So much has been lost in America in these days, but God has kept these sacred in the stewardship of The Church of Christ for such a long time. It's obvious to me that The Lord entrusted these holy places to your stewardship for hundreds of years. Such a beautiful testimony and tender grief by Pastor Hamon. What a wonderful man.
I'm so very sorry for your loss 😢 💔. Let you be assured sure that we (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) will take great care of your precious belongings and carry on with your wonderful stewardship. ❤ I personally want to thank you for your service 🙏❤! In taking care of these sacred belongings, especially the Temple, which we too, hold so dear to our hearts 💕 ❤. We love you all and acknowledge your grief 😢.
Another member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints here. I also wanted to share my gratitude for your Church's tender care of the Kirtland Temple. I have felt nothing but compassion for how you all must be feeling at this news. Please know that we care about you. That we are united in our belief in the Restoration. That we affirm that Joseph is the prophet of that great work out Restoration and of translation of the Book of Mormon. We know there are differences in our faiths, but there are also so many similarities. We are grateful to 2:03 find common ground with you. Please know that we are so happy to hear that you will have continued access to the temple. Please be reassured that we will care for it with as much love as you have. It is historic and glorious and we are happy that all may have access to it, now and in the future, as it should be. We hope that the proceeds will help you to continue on in your efforts to support your members throughout the world going forward. We wish you all the best, and God's most abundant blessings of peace and love and joy.
I am 80 years old and have been a Member of CofC all of my life. The sacred artifacts that have been sold were always a pride and comfort to the Saints. They were evidence of our journey in faith and our love of Jesus Christ and his commitment to us. This sale is a shock to many of us and the sense of loss is almost overwhelming. What will happen to the church now? What has this event meant to those grieving for this heart wrenching loss. We have not lost Jesus, our mission , or our commitment to our community in Christ. The Lord God is always with us and our journey is not over. God bless the Community of Christ and its dedication to its calling….. the testimony to the validity of our Lord Jesus Christ, our savior and our undying hope.
Now that CoC members have nothing to hold onto for comfort, you’ll certainly lose a significant number of members and membership will never bounce back. I feel bad for members of your church and wish each congregation among you well.
I grieve with you. The tears that I have been crying have not been for "for a building," but for the people of my church family that I love so much, who have sacrificed and dedicated their lives to our church in the service of God and the mission of Christ. All of us who have been presented with this total shock in this way. I am so sorry, Barbara, my dear sister. I echo your testimony, the journey is not over and the Lord is with us through times of pain and darkness. You blessing and faith are the light that gives me hope, that never dies. "God is our refuge and strength, an ever-present help in trouble."
Will the Community of Christ distance itself from the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible? My understanding is that they do not refer to the Book of Mormon the same way that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I may be wrong about the Book of Mormon, but I don't believe it is canonized by the CofC church. I am curious is they will de-canonize the JST translation and go with another translation that is more accepted by the general Christian faiths. By selling the buildings, letters, and things pertaining to Joseph Smith I cannot help but feel that they are distancing themselves from him and the restoration.
@NolanKingston what do you mean we have nothing to hold on to? Have you never met Jesus Christ yourself? If not I encourage you to seek him out for he's the ultimate anchor that all Christians hold onto.
@@bethanydee1920 The Christian Jesus is, as I’m sure you’ll discover, is another Greco-Roman god, not historical, not the awaited Savior of the Jews. I can say more, but all you need to know as far as I’m concerned I don’t believe in the Jesus of Christianity. From where I stand, because I see the Christian Jesus as myth, you’re holding onto mere imagination, an imaginary phantom.
I'm LDS. I'm sorry for your loss. I know it would be hard on members of my Church if we had to sell the Salt Lake Temple. Thank you for taking care of the Kirkland Temple and properties in Nauvoo. Thank you for taking care of the many artifacts that were also part of this transfer. I really hope that the Community of Christ is better off because of this. Again thank you.
I'm not a member of the Community of Christ but I mourn with you. I have been so blessed by Beyond the Walls. My prayers are for you and with you. May the blessing of the Spirit's comfort abide with you.
I am so sorry for your personal loss, and the loss to your community. Seeing you in pain is heartbreaking 😢❤ You've given me and all of us a great gift with your lecture series, and have enriched all our lives in wonderful ways! You make me feel welcomed, and as part of your fellowship when I watch your videos - and I hope you can feel comfortable relying on all of us now in this time of grief. We love you John!
Thank you, dominix. I am so pleased that you feel welcomed. You are a part of our fellowship. Thank you for your love. The support this community brings me has filled my heart and soul.
I’m not a member of Community of Christ, but this channel has been such a wonderful blessing in my life. Before finding this channel, I had never read the Bible seriously or heard of Biblical criticism before, but through these videos I have learned so so much. To say that this channel and church have made an impact on my life would be the greatest of understatements. I am so sorry for this loss for your faith tradition. I know there will be brighter days ahead, but for now I will grieve this loss with you. Thank you for everything you guys do.
I'm a non-christian but I am so sorry for the hurt in your community. I hope you are all given plenty of support & kindness throughout the process. Best wishes.
Christian doctrine holds that Jesus is the Temple-- a doctrine that many denominations consider to forbid the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem. It comes up in debates with right wing "evangelicals", who think the Bible says a third temple will be rebuilt, but, others hold, Daniel was talking about the second temple, which was not finished until the late 60s AD, just before it was razed by the Romans. They hold that building another temple is blasphemy against the doctrine that Christ is the temple. And round & round we go.
@@StephanieSoressi Jesus said we are the temple and He dwells in us, not man made buildings. The significance of God tearing the massive veil of the temple top to bottom is grossly underestimated.
John, I am not of your faith but I am so sorry you are having to experience this. I firmly believe in preserving history and respecting the spiritual traditions of all.
I feel your grief. I am sorry, we feel for your loss. I am a member of the Church of Jesus of Latter Day Saints.we were missionaries in nauvoo and got to know some of your fine people. I can’t imagine how much you are feeling of that loss .my love and prayers go out to you. carol
I foresaw and predicted this day when I was an RLDS Member (early 1990s). This sale is the beginning of the end of the existence of Community of Christ. My deepest condolences to Community of Christ and my friends thereof. -- Kingston
@@HamerToronto I’m sorry too. I just wish my brothers and sisters in the Church had listened to me; otherwise, this day would not have come. There’s still opportunities to overcome these hurdles, but I don’t think the leadership in your Church will listen. That’s what happened when I made my initial predictions.
I went with one of the conservative break-offs when the RLDS Church fell apart in the 1980s and 1990s, but it was never a good fit, and I ended up leaving the Restoration movement completely and joining the Episcopal Church. But the Kirtland Temple sale hit me like a ton of bricks. I preached there and look back on those days as a wonderful part of my faith journey. At first I was horrified that "the Mormons" now owned the building. But as I reflect on it more, I understand that it makes sense for people who really believe in the Restoration message to own it. As I try to fathom what the RLDS Church now is, I can't help thinking that the Church doesn't really believe God truly spoke to a modern prophet until the 1960s. Given that, the right thing may have happened.
My heart reaches out to you and prayers of comfort are lifted to you in your mourning. I am sorry for the pain and disappointment you are dealing with. In January I purchased a tour package to see the temple this fall. I was very surprised at the news. I have visited Nauvoo and shopped at the red brick store and appreciated all that I learned from those members of your church while visiting. Peace to you and your congregation and other congregations. Prayers and love to you all. 🙏 ❤
John, your grief is profound and your love for these sacred sites touched me to the core. As an LDS member in Ohio, I have visited the Kirtland Temple since I was a young girl in the 1950s, and with my own children into the 1970s and 1980s. I’m older now, and when we have traveled to Kirtland and Nauvoo, your dedication to the preservation of these historic sites is so evident. I understand your grief and your loss. Our family thanks you for saving these beautiful buildings and preserving them for the historic events that took place in them. You have done a magnificent job in helping them to be a place where others could learn and grow and experience the spiritual feelings regarding the specialness of them. May God bless you all for your efforts, and help you as you heal.
Wow! Thank you John for representing the emotions so many are feeling. Thank you for bringing Ancient Israel to our recollection. I hope the loss you feel will be somewhat comforted in the days and years ahead.
I'm not a member of this church but I have been so impressed with CoC's ministry. I'm so sorry that you're all experiencing this grief and my heart is with you.
The community of Christ will prevail because it has honestly at its core, imagine how it must’ve felt for those who actually laboured and built the Kirkland temple and later the Navajo temple and had to walk away and leave it, well, not being ideal it could be a lot worse, God be with you till we meet again
I may not be a member of the Community of Christ, or LDS, but I do feel I am a member of the Centre Place community here digitally, And It hurts me to see John so full of pain, Sending love from my corner of the world to everyone affected by this event. I dont fully understand it, but I can mourn with you all just the same. Kia Kaha - "stay strong" Ahau takuate me koe "I grieve with you"
Brothers and sisters of the restoration, the importance of your vigilance in preserving that first holy edifice, the house of The Lord, cannot be overstated. The work you continue will likewise be of tremendous importance to Jesus Christ.
As a Latter-day Saint, I treasure the tours I've taken with Community of Christ members through many of these sites. I loved getting to know these CoC members and seeing the world through their eyes. I sorrow that we are losing this aspect of our continued friendship! I grieve with my sisters and brothers in the Community of Christ over this loss. I wish it could be otherwise. May we continue our friendship long into the future, ever loving members of the same family! ❤
Hearing you speak, my heart breaks. I'm a non-believer who has read and studied the Bible since my late teens (71 now). Listening to your lectures has been a strong tempering influence to my views of Christian faith. I know that the work you do brings comfort and joy to many. I hope for the best for you and those who love you. Peace.
Oh my goodness. I am so sorry to hear this. I know what the temple means to the community, and can't imagine how the community must be feeling. Despite being an atheist, I really enjoy John's lectures. I have learned so much, and find them soothing when i'm going through bad times. I won't say "thoughts and prayers" because I don't pray, but please know I am with you in empathy and spirit. If there is anything non believers can do to support, please let us know.
John, i feel your loss deeply. I too was raised in the Mormon Church in Minnesota i grew up feeling the genuine love of my fellow bothers and sisters in St Paul, went to BYU, served a mission, and left when i came out. I still miss the quiet strength i was surrounded by in my sunday worship. Leaving that behind caused me a similar grief. I have attended the Commmunity of Christ meeting in Walnut Creek. The people there were very kind, but it Made me realize how far i had come from my childhood beliefs. I assume that process Will continue for the rest of my life. I hope the same for you
My heart goes out to you and your fellows in the Community of Christ. I say with respect that it is my privilege to appreciate what a beautiful soul you are simply by waiting for and watching your marvellous lectures. Your congregation so clearly have a beautiful bond together and I feel the love for the world that you all share. I know you are all blessed by God. 🙏🙏🏼🩵🙏🏼🙏🏼
I for one am so sorry for your grief and I am greatly appreciative of how lovingly and thoughtfully and ever so carefully you all have taken care of this sacred and precious treasure. We may be different in our faith, but we are all beloved children of God.
Thank you John...at age 85 I have endured unbearable losses. However God got me through and drew me closer to Him...all things material cannot take His place. You will come to feel this too.❤
I have been enthralled by John's insight on the history of Christianity and particularly of Mormonism. I really am sorry for your personal loss, but I cannot deny my disappointment in the leadership of the Community of Christ.
As a member of the LDS church, I served my mission in Kirtland and pray the new owners treat these sites with the same respect and devotion worthy of what they are owed.
I was in kirtland in 2022. I was visiting from utah. It was an amazing experience for me. I toured the kirtland temple for the first time. But I got there late . The last tour of the day had already started and this was the only chance i'd have to see it before i had to go back to utah. The COC representatives in the visitors center were so nice . They allowed me and my brother and our friend to go in still and even escorted us in. I am very grateful for that . It had always been something i had wanted to do. And i was not disappointed. The spirit in that temple was strong. I was excited when i found out the church here in utah had bought it from COC , but then my excitement turned to mourning for COC. I was treated very kindly by COC during my visit to the Kirtland temple and I am truly saddened for your loss.
Brother Hamer. I have enjoyed several of your presentations over the years. Though not a member of your denomination the Apostle Paul has taught us to, “Mourn with those that mourn.” Romans 12. I pray that the Spirit may comfort you and the many others who have the sense of loss you so eloquently conveyed. My wish to you is from Numbers 6:24- 24 The Lord bless thee, and keep thee: 25 The Lord make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: 26 The Lord lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace. Shalom my brother in Christ. John Thompson
I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints - I feel for those of you who are feeling grief and loss. I am sorry. Thank you for your ongoing stewardship of these mutually important properties and historical relics. Without your efforts and charity over decades, millions of visitors would never have had the privilege of visiting, and feeling the sacredness of these properties. I genuinely hope the worldwide leadership council of the CoC, use the financial resources from the sale for the true benefit of the membership.
I am so pleased you have had this response. I too feel healing from sharing with this community, from all the love and support as well as the acknowledgement of grief and pain. Thank you and blessings!
I understandJohn...my heart broke too. My father often shared his testimony of visiting Kirtland while attending Graceland. I have my own testimonies of several visits there, including a resurgence of my faith. Just one more hurdIe i guess, in our discipleship with Christ. Let us continue to be Fully Alive in His presence which we profess goes Beyond the Walls to all sectors of Earth and Beyond.
You ARE beyond the walls, even to those outside of your religious community John. We feel your grief and I for one, am saddened. Be strong. The creator of everything works through you with love, compassion and learning. Thank you for all that you do for the betterment of all 🙏💜
I am so sorry to the whole CoC. As a person raised LDS , your lectures and welcoming brilliance has saved my bond and connection to the Mormon tradition. The CoC has stewarded these sacred sites with such honesty and thoughtful discernment. I'm so sorry and weep with you for this loss. I'm deeply sorry
Your lectures and the joyful inclusive tone of online worship has been comfort and sustenance as I’ve lived in a very rural and isolated area the last few years. Sorry for the pain and shock of this loss for all affected.
I’m so sorry for your loss. A short-sighted decision, to be sure. You are a light to many and I believe the legacy of your teaching will last for a very long time indeed. Thank you.
In our joy in getting the Kirkland Temple, we had no idea that there would be this sense of loss. The temple will always be open to all restorationists and to all people.
John.. I just watched your presentation and feel your grief when the temple was sold. It is the same grief I felt when in 1985 I withdrew my membership from the RLDS. This was due to the revelation of women being ordained into the priesthood, the temple being built with the wrong design, wrong place and for the wrong reason. Other reasons also I won’t get into. Even though we are not in the same denomination I respect and like your work and dedication to the history of the church. As a priesthood member I meet in the homes of the saints and as long as I’m alive, I will continue to preserve the gospel as taught in 1830. May God continue to bless you.
I appreciate how the Community of Christ were such good stewards of the Kirtland Temple and the Smith family historical sites. I appreciate how us members of other LDS sects were allowed access so we too could enjoy these sacred sites. I hope the church in Utah continues to run and maintain these sites as they have been.
I understand your grief but your love of Jesus and his teachings and the fellowship of your community will see you through this. Best wishes from Ireland.
Oh John I am so so sorry to hear of your loss. I’ve been following you for a while and your message is amazing. I see the divine working through you. I’m new to this and watch your channel every night. You have brought such amazing clarity to a Christian newbie. Thank you thank you thank you for everything. I hope your pain is lifted soon 🙏
John, thank you for you reflection. I,too, have grieved and you reminder of the many losses of "things" over the ions of time. One thing remains; the love over Jesus Christ and the abiding Holy Spirit. Our own stories fill in the story of God's presence. We can all second-guess the way decisions were made, but I have come to realize it is probably to our folly. We can all move forward and do better on so many plains. To that I commit. Again, I too grieve and long to give space for others to process what happened. I long for new realization of the role of our own stories and our personal spirit of generosity as we press into our future, our legacies, and our stories. Blessings to you and the ministry Beyond the Walls as we continue to share our stories and continue to respond to God's call to the future.
John, I empathize with your grief and sense of loss. Same for all of you and everyone, everywhere. I'm probably the last person on earth that you would expect this from since I'm just a humanist and have no religion. Why am I here then? I'm always here. I enjoy listening to your lectures and benefiting from your vast knowledge. I often go to churches, at least twice a month. Which church? Any church, because it's all about the people to me, their kindness, and imperfections that I see HUGE value in. I'm that quiet guy in the corner of the churches trying not to bother anyone. I often donate to whatever is important to them and which also makes sense to me: Hunger, illnesses... I once was a believer, I'm not asking anyone else to not believe. Actually, one of my favorite warnings to myself and everyone else is: Be careful, God could pop up out of nowhere and slap you in the face. With that in mind, I try to proceed with caution in all that I do. I used to be that kid carrying a Bible everywhere I went. Then, one day, I looked around me and everyone, imperfect or not, kind to me or not, turned golden, and it's never changed. I'm not sure what you all are sad about losing? I ask myself: Why are the golden people sad? Liss of Buildings? Paintings? Statues? One day I hope you all will see in yourselves what I see in you. Who is God to me? You are. Each and every one of you. I can be killed or punished for what I'm saying, you think? Probably, but I'm worth noting, you all are everything. Imperfect and beautiful.✌️
This atheist feminist witch really feels for you, John. I can't tell you how many times I've listened to your lectures and the sound of your voice has been a comfort. I'm so sorry for the loss you're experiencing, and I wish you all the healing in the world.
I'm a pagan/Buddhist/Maronite Catholic/witch (no matter what THEY think!), and want to add my sorrow to my sister's, above. I'll keep you in my prayers, magick, and ordinary secular good wishes. When I do the Loving Kindness Meditation, I'll put you in the circle just beyond the circle of my BFFs. Please FEEL us, even those of us who don't share your belief, sharing your grief, because belief and Faith are not the same thing. You have our Love. ❤
As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I want to extend a warm embrace of fellowship in your loss. I had a sense upon hearing the news that this would be very difficult for members of the Community of Christ. On the other hand, seeing this transaction or other collaborations between our faiths in recent decades has heartened me in other ways as well. Truthfully, the chasm that has existed between our churches has gone on for much too long. I pray that members of the Community of Christ will still feel welcome in all these properties. We are indeed brothers and sisters.
i usually lurk. dont have much to add to society anymore. im so sorry for your loss. hate to see another human in pain about something they clearly care about. ive enjoyed your lectures for quite some time and wish you the best in the coming days. youve taught me so much about religion and its origins. thankful. sending you good vibes.
Who was the purchaser of this building? I find this so unsettling that a congregation of such impeccable quality is being disrupted. The lecture series I came upon just 1.5 years ago and it has been a daily learning experience that has brought me closer to the truth of true believing. The scholarship is incomparable and you, John, have carried me through very difficult transformation which still needs your voice, your knowledge and the goodness of your personality. I am in the US and wonder where and when you will be available in the future. I had daydreams of finding my way to your church and meeting you and being among the congregation on a visit. My respect for you John, Mr Hamer, is higher than any university professor I have had and, you are the only pastor I have trusted.
Thank you for your respect and trust, Mary. Just for clarification, you can still come and visit me and my congregation here in Toronto. We have not sold Toronto Centre Place and our Centre Place ministries will not be discontinued. The Temple is in Ohio and was in the stewardship of my congregation's denominational leaders. They have sold it to our cousins in the Restoration tradition, a much larger denomination. The issue to me is more about loss of a sacred heritage and a failing of sacred stewardship than simply history or anything as materialistic as the ownership of a building.
I hope this will not appear dismissive, but if The Temple had to be sold The LDS are probably the best custodians. I do understand how distressing this is.
Dear John, I am quite relieved to hear Center Place, you, your ministry and lectures will remain! Thank you so much for your reply. My level of appreciation has soared with the near loss! The Temple which I have only now learned of, is a sad situation. The photo history showed not only its magnificent beauty but the people who imbued it with love and connectedness, making its provenance all that more unique. No doubt hard to absorb. I will once again entertain a visit to Toronto to experience the fullness of your church. Once again thank you for all you do. Mary
So sorry for this grievous religious upheaval. You have shown me that the true love of God, if there be one, is with what you and your spiritual family has shown us.
Oh. Something hust occured to me. Ive seen houses foundations : ships factory products.: well im tryin to say. I can build you a. 1000 year tempke with a credit card and a home depot.. ii would use a lot of concrete.. and mold it to your liking
Its not the temple. The temple is inanimate. But it does give a radiant preasence. Safety and achievment. Hark. Do not be swallowed up into the abysmal deplorable grief. This is a natural phenomena. True it is sad to see such a thing. ..to see dwindling parishes and support. Back in psych class during the death n dying and grieving lec. It was said at the end. There is always a new begginning. Those who survive must now play thier role. That is Prophet. Or die trying. And then the cycle renews with your disciples
My heart goes out to you. Like so many members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, below, I appreciate the stewardship you have had over these artifacts and the Kirtland Temple, itself. It is still yours and ours. We love all those who love the Savior. May your church be able to go forward with your goals through this exchange and may it be a win/win for both parties as we both prepare for the Second Coming of the Lord, Jesus Christ.
The other day my 6 year daughter expressed a lot of sorrow in how a lot of things in her room had changed recently. She got a new bed, a new rug, a new dresser, a new ceiling fan, etc, all within a few months and she said it sort of hit her that her life is moving along and that she was leaving one season of life behind and entering another, and she had a sense of loss about the season she was leaving. I didn't want to hush or suppress her grief because I know what she means. It is sad to leave seasons of life behind. I don't want to leave my 6 year old to get my 7 year old. I want my daughters at all their ages, but I can only have one age at a time and have to say goodbye to ages in order to meet new ages. Another time I told a different daughter when she was about 3, that I didnt want her to grow up any more. I said I loved the way she was at 3 and wanted to keep her that way, so I said she cant grow up any more. She responded by saying, "I can't help it. Jesus is making me." I also had a sad moment the other day and as I was trying to explain it to my daughters I said I want to explain it because y'all are going to have sad days like this too, and one of the things you'll find is that as time passes God somehow makes it okay. I discovered your channel about a month ago and got totally hooked. I've watched a ton of your videos and learned a lot. I became a Christian about 20 years ago at a church that is a descendant of the Stone-Campbell restoration movement, and I never realized until listening to your show how closely related the Later-Day Saint movement is to the Stone-Campbell movement. We are sort of cousin movements in a way. As a movement cousin so to speak, I want to express my sympathy for the sense of loss you have when considering the season that has just past, and my encouragement that in time God will make it okay. One of the things I told my 6 year old when she was upset about all the things in her room changing was "That's true. A lot of things are changing, but you still have me and mom, and your sisters, so even though a lot of things are changing, a lot of things are staying the same too." And she found that comforting. Jesus said whatever happens, whatever changes, he will always be with us, even to the end of the age, so some things will always be the same.
Thank you, for your passionate video. I did not understand this loss until I started listening to your video. My late aunt and cousins were members of the Reorganized Church. My condolences. Glen M.
I am deeply sorry for the loss and the suffering you are feeling John. I want to validate that feeling in light of people saying it’s just a building too. It can be hard for some people to relate.
Pastor, I mourn with you. I often visit the Temple to sit amongst the lingering voices of my ancestors, “The spirit of Gods like a fire is burning; the latter-day glory begins to come forth…” Their hope, faith, love and strength created a future into which I was born. Hear my prayers for you, your congregation, for me and for us all. May we join together in a moment of awe.
My brothers and sisters or as some may say, my Mormon cousins my heart is full of love and inclusion with this news. For many of my Brighamite Utah Mormon brothers and sisters it’s the first they’ve heard or had a better understanding of your faith. I believe a connection has been made that could be fostered into an even stronger bond between the two communities with the prophet Joseph Smith and the sacred doctrines he revealed. Now let’s see what our communities do with the large sums of earthly money they both possess.
Sending you love John you bring me so much joy and wisdom. Grief is a burden best shared, so even though I am not a member of the Community of Christ I hope my prayers bring some comfort.
John, your lectures have become one of my favorite channels on TH-cam, for your knowledge, your intellect, your humor, and your humanity. So I am deeply saddened by the profound distress that you are experiencing. I wish you solace. 🙏 🖖 Russell P.S. I grew up near and saw the Kirtland Temple many times, and appreciated it as a historic artifact. To learn of it being disposed of in this way is rather shocking.
John, ever since "meeting" you on Rick Bennett's channel, I have thought well of you. (You appeared there with Lachlan a few years ago.) I visited The Kirtland Temple in early July of 2020. No tours were permitted during covid. But a very pleasant groundskeeper, Brother Steve, with a sweet testimony shared what he could of that wonderful space. I was moved deeply that there is no other place on earth where we can definitely say, within a few square feet, that God condescended! But know that these Holy Temple stones were not crushed to powder, the relics not scattered the gold not stolen. You and others of the Restoration are still welcome within those hallowed walls while recieving the benefits of the sale. I hope that The Community of Christ will return to a place of fiscal strength. I remember when it was so. As a youth I benefited from that strength at one of the lovely RLDS camps at Idyllwild California where over the years our Stake had several overnighters. Your caretakers were splendid hosts and very non-judgmentally put up with a lot of nonsense from our youth. However, dear Brother I know your grief is real and that it will be for awhile. Please know that many of us in the brighamite clan are not indifferent. God bless you John Hamer and all of the Community of Christ!
My dear John Hamer, I don't know you, but I can perceive that you are a man of faith. What happened with the Kirtland Temple seems like it was more important money and it seems that whoever has it, has more advantage. I share with you your mourn and I also share your devotion. It 's close the time when money shall have no more power than dried weeds. Let us hope for that time and let us be worthy to be alive in that day when all elements shall burn and only the ones who have chosen the spirt of prophesy as a guide will be saved by fire.
I understand stand the lost. From what I understand it will ultimately be a huge blessing for everyone involved. The Community of Christ will be able to meet their financial obligations and the Utah LDS will be able to preserve the temple and expand its access for everyone to enjoy together and visit and feel the spirit there as often as desired.
Very well said! You have great insight and great strength. I certainly hope Community of Christ sees that! I hope Community of Christ will call you to a position to manage their finances. With your insight, you will be able to help them move forward in such a positive wonderful way! May God bless you and Community of Christ as they move forward. Thank you Community of Christ for your great care and stewardship of this beautiful temple, along with the other properties and artifacts, for so many years.♥️🙏🏼
i had experienced the whole program live, at noon and at 6pm again; and i watched the whole again.-- and i tuned into the Zoom which world church presented for meditation and (grieving).... i had thought i was being ghoul-ish, repeating the BTW.. but i am thankful to know that 1-- i was not being selfish, to listen to this again, 2-- that others felt the same way, in fact that this compilation was made of several parts of the BTW 3/10/2024. i'm so glad that this compliaton does include: the ittle video movie of modern people, ...at the KTemple and even the musical response to the hymn, which showed that modern group, departing the building. in case i let my point get lost.... thank you for putting this one together. ... i'm still "in denial" and probably will remain here for several months ....
Upon hearing the news, I just felt sad for the immense loss to the Community of Christ and to the sacrifice and integrity with which they have cared for these spaces and artifacts of our broader Mormon/Restorationist history. For me, someone who formerly belonged to the Salt Lake church, these artifacts and sites represent a part of my history. But these were part of your culture and actual lives. I fully expect that the Community of Christ will do more good with the funds gained from this transaction than the LDS church ever would have, but I grieve for the loss that this is and that it represents. My hope for the future is that this will be galvanizing for the Community of Christ as the tribulations John discusses galvanized their respective peoples and generations.
I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and I'd like to offer a hand in fellowship to "mourn with those who mourn" (Mosiah 9:40, CoC edition). When I first learned that my church leadership bought the kirtland temple and other properties from yours last week on Steven Pynakker's youtube channel, I can honestly say that my first reaction, after getting over the shock, was immense grief and pain on behalf of Community of Christ. Although our churches have had their differences and tension over the years, I've grown to feel a powerful sense of fellowship and love for my spiritual cousins in the Josephite tradition - especially after discovering that one of my own 4th great grandfathers and his wife joined the Reorganized church after moving to Idaho in the late 19th century. Any possible feelings of excitement or joy that my faith community now has ownership of these properties are completely outweighed by my pain.
John, thank you for your ministry. This youtube channel has been a valuable resource for me in my own faith journey, and I pray for your solace in this grief. I wish you and your community well in your ministry in the future, and I hope that this sale will be able to stabilize Community of Christ finances for decades to come.
Thank you so much for your hand of fellowship and grace, my beloved cousin in the Restoration, shared with such considerate intention here at the waters of Mormon in Mosiah: "now when the people had heard these words, they clapped their hands for joy." Your words have brought tears to my eyes again, but of joy. Thank you.
@@HamerToronto You're very welcome. If anything uplifting came out of this news, let it be that Restoration cousins came together to transform grief into the joy of fellowship. Once again, my heart goes out in prayer for you.
I didn't realize how impactful John has been in my life until I found myself weeping for a man I've never met; for a loss I don't fully understand. But I do understand loss. And change. The congregation is blessed to have someone like you, John. PS: Your work has changed my worldview in a very positive way and helped me get through some pretty rough times the last couple years, that's for sure. Thank you for that. Keep your head up, sir.
I'm glad that we have been of help in troubled times and good times. Thank you for being part of this community.
As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and living in Kansas City very close to Independence, I have conflicting emotions. I understand the joy on one side, and acknowledge and try to empathize with the pain and feelings of loss on the other. I hate that it seems someone has to win and someone else has to lose. I don’t think that is what God wants. I think that God loves and appreciates all who serve Him, and all who even want to serve Him. I think he would have all of us comforted in any trial or tribulation. May we stand together as brothers and sisters now and forever. If now is a time that we might be able to offer a listening ear or a helping hand, know that the time will surely come that we need your help also. May God continue to bless all of his children, and particularly our brothers and sisters in the restoration movement.
Thank you for this kind statement!
This a very beautiful sentiment and prayer, thank you.
Pastor Hamer's lecture series is second to none. As a non Christian, Total Respect for your sincerity. Best wishes.
Thank you for your best wishes and appreciation
As an LDS member, I visited Kirtland and the temple. I was so impressed with the manor in which the temple has been maintained. I also felt the warmth and friendliness of the members of the Community of Christ. I am so sorry for your loss, but know that the temple and other artifacts will continue to be cherished.
Every temple in the hands of the lds church is torn down and remodeled. They are never historically preserved but rather historic relics like original paintings and murals are painted ovee. Look no further than the salt lake temple remodel. Its a lie to believe that the LDS church will preserve it like the community of Christ has but rather they will control it.
I mourn with you. My heart is broken for you. But you are not the first people to have mourned that sacred building. When my great-great-grandfather, Frederick G. Williams, left there in 1838, I’m sure he looked back over his shoulder and experienced the same feelings you are feeling now. He had been in the planning from the beginning, and had witnessed the vision with Joseph and Sidney Rigdon of the temple in the distance, moving toward them and eventually coming right over them in a virtual reality experience where they saw every detail of the interior. During the dedication he witnessed the Savior himself come and sit between him and Father Smith, close enough for him to touch. He worked in that temple every day as a member of the first presidency. His children went to school in it. That building was, like many of your faith, a part of his everyday life. So my heart understands what you are going through. I hope you will still feel a part of it, even though you will no longer have responsibility for its upkeep. It will always be partly yours.
Amen. Our hearts to yours pastor🙏
Sorry for the grief and loss . The heritage and spirit of those sacred sites will continue to be preserved. The community of Christ will always be welcome at the sites.
As an lds member I'm grateful for CoC for preserving the sacred sites and hope it can always be a shared place amongst our shared history and love for Christ and His gospel.
I'm glad that the CoC can still use the Kirkland temple for their special meetings and events.
Thank you so much for your kind words, and your love and commitment to our shared heritage in the Restoration
I'm not religious, but I do understand your loss, and feel for you. The temple without human prayers is just a building full of memories, but that spiritual energy is alive while you are alive. Don't worry about the building, no one can take from you and your people the most sacred thing - the Temple inside of you, it will be always with you no matter what and no matter where. I also want to thank you for your outstanding lectures, they are priceless, thank you for sharing.
I'm a Latter Day Saint from Utah. I just want to say I'm so sorry for your loss. I understand this loss is so hard. Thank you for the many years your church took such good care of the Kirtland Temple, along with the Nauvoo properties and artifacts. I'm glad our church was able to help your church and good people (cousins in Christ and lovers of the restoration). I hope this endowment of funds helps put the Community of Christ on secure footing.
Thank you for your understanding and hopes, my cousin in the Restoration.
How did CoC and LDS part ways? Were they ever one?
Post Joseph Smith's death. There was a question over whether the successor was supposed to be a descendent of Joseph Smith or the next senior apostle after the prophet. Kind of like the Sunni/Shiite thing. The LDS formed pretty much immediately from those who thought it should be the next senior Apostle (Brigham Young), CoC formed in 1860 from those who believed it was supposed to be one of Joseph Smith's descendents when Joseph Smith III was old enough to assume leadership. CoC maintained that leadership succession (J.S. descendents) until the 1980's. LDS maintains the same succession system (senior apostle) that they started with.
@@chimpychimp4921 Thank you. I did not know that.
Dear Brother John: May the good Lord bless you and your fellow congregants with abiding peace and comfort at this time of great loss. One of my greatest spiritual experiences came in 2002 during the MHA Sunday service in the Kirtland temple when all of us-representing various expressions of the Restoration-sang together the original version of “The Spirit of God.” I rejoice in knowing that this sacred edifice will still be available to members of the Community of Christ for similar spiritual experiences into the future and on behalf of my fellow Latter-day Saints I thank you personally, along with so many others, for all you did over the years to care so faithfully for these sacred objects and spaces. I can only hope my church will do as well over the years to come until that glorious day when our common Lord and Savior returns to the earth and to that sacred edifice. -Roger Robin Ekins
Brother, I feel for your pain and anguish so eloquently expressed in your heartfelt words.
As a young missionary 30 years ago for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints I served in the Kirtland area for a year. I spent a lot of time in and around the Kirtland Temple and grew to love it. I appreciated it before I first stepped inside of it but I came to love that sacred space as I spent time in it. I have always appreciated the kindness and friendship I developed in my youth with members of the Community of Christ. Few days have passed since that time 30 years ago where I have not thought about my time in Kirtland, in many respects it has had a profound spiritual impact on my life.
When I heard the news this past Tuesday I wept tears of joy while at the same time you wept tears of sadness. May we all come together, all of us who love that sacred space in unity as children of a loving God. I pray that it can continue to be a place where our shared heritage can bring us together in our unified faith in the Son of the living God whom we all worship and whose name the Kirtland Temple honors.
You and your community will continue to be in my prayers as we move forward.
Thank you for sharing your personal experience, and for your empathy, love, and for your prayers.
I am not a believer, but I enjoy your lecture series so much. I've listened to several of them multiple times. I've made a small contribution to your cause out of appreciation.
Thank you for holding a space for those of us who are grieving. It brings so much solace to go through the process in community. Please keep doing what you're doing so well. You and your team are a beacon! Sending you all so much love!
You are very welcome. I share your grief. I love our people. My team and I will continue. Thank you for your love.
John, this was an exquisite sermon, both in its pain and in its hope. I found myself sobbing as you led us to the greater meaning of “Beyond the Walls.” There are no words to express the many ways you bless and enlighten those, like me, who look to you for inspiration and sanity when it’s hard to find peace.
As an lds member I'm so very thankful for Church of Christ for preserving the sacred sites as SACRED SITES! So much has been lost in America in these days, but God has kept these sacred in the stewardship of The Church of Christ for such a long time. It's obvious to me that The Lord entrusted these holy places to your stewardship for hundreds of years. Such a beautiful testimony and tender grief by Pastor Hamon. What a wonderful man.
I'm so very sorry for your loss 😢 💔. Let you be assured sure that we (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) will take great care of your precious belongings and carry on with your wonderful stewardship. ❤ I personally want to thank you for your service 🙏❤! In taking care of these sacred belongings, especially the Temple, which we too, hold so dear to our hearts 💕 ❤. We love you all and acknowledge your grief 😢.
I am LDS. John, you have taught me a great deal in this message. I shall reflect on it often. Everyone faces challenges. You are showing how to do it.
Thank you
Another member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints here. I also wanted to share my gratitude for your Church's tender care of the Kirtland Temple. I have felt nothing but compassion for how you all must be feeling at this news. Please know that we care about you. That we are united in our belief in the Restoration. That we affirm that Joseph is the prophet of that great work out Restoration and of translation of the Book of Mormon. We know there are differences in our faiths, but there are also so many similarities. We are grateful to 2:03 find common ground with you. Please know that we are so happy to hear that you will have continued access to the temple. Please be reassured that we will care for it with as much love as you have. It is historic and glorious and we are happy that all may have access to it, now and in the future, as it should be. We hope that the proceeds will help you to continue on in your efforts to support your members throughout the world going forward. We wish you all the best, and God's most abundant blessings of peace and love and joy.
Thank you
I am 80 years old and have been a
Member of CofC all of my life. The sacred artifacts that have been sold were always a pride and comfort to the Saints. They were evidence of our journey in faith and our love of Jesus Christ and his commitment to us. This sale is a shock to many of us and the sense of loss is almost overwhelming. What will happen to the church now? What has this event meant to those grieving for this heart wrenching loss. We have not lost Jesus, our mission , or our commitment to our community in Christ. The Lord God is always with us and our journey is not over. God bless the Community of Christ and its dedication to its calling….. the testimony to the validity of our Lord Jesus Christ, our savior and our undying hope.
Now that CoC members have nothing to hold onto for comfort, you’ll certainly lose a significant number of members and membership will never bounce back. I feel bad for members of your church and wish each congregation among you well.
I grieve with you. The tears that I have been crying have not been for "for a building," but for the people of my church family that I love so much, who have sacrificed and dedicated their lives to our church in the service of God and the mission of Christ. All of us who have been presented with this total shock in this way. I am so sorry, Barbara, my dear sister. I echo your testimony, the journey is not over and the Lord is with us through times of pain and darkness. You blessing and faith are the light that gives me hope, that never dies. "God is our refuge and strength, an ever-present help in trouble."
Will the Community of Christ distance itself from the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible? My understanding is that they do not refer to the Book of Mormon the same way that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I may be wrong about the Book of Mormon, but I don't believe it is canonized by the CofC church. I am curious is they will de-canonize the JST translation and go with another translation that is more accepted by the general Christian faiths. By selling the buildings, letters, and things pertaining to Joseph Smith I cannot help but feel that they are distancing themselves from him and the restoration.
@NolanKingston what do you mean we have nothing to hold on to? Have you never met Jesus Christ yourself? If not I encourage you to seek him out for he's the ultimate anchor that all Christians hold onto.
@@bethanydee1920 The Christian Jesus is, as I’m sure you’ll discover, is another Greco-Roman god, not historical, not the awaited Savior of the Jews. I can say more, but all you need to know as far as I’m concerned I don’t believe in the Jesus of Christianity. From where I stand, because I see the Christian Jesus as myth, you’re holding onto mere imagination, an imaginary phantom.
I'm LDS. I'm sorry for your loss. I know it would be hard on members of my Church if we had to sell the Salt Lake Temple. Thank you for taking care of the Kirkland Temple and properties in Nauvoo. Thank you for taking care of the many artifacts that were also part of this transfer. I really hope that the Community of Christ is better off because of this. Again thank you.
I'm not a member of the Community of Christ but I mourn with you. I have been so blessed by Beyond the Walls. My prayers are for you and with you. May the blessing of the Spirit's comfort abide with you.
I mourn with you. I believe I understand your feelings. 😢 May the Lord bless you, brothers and sisters of the Community of Christ. Love from Austria.
I'm a Latter-day Saint from SE Tennessee. I mourn with you. Thank you for your stewardship and sacrifices. 😢
I am so sorry for your personal loss, and the loss to your community. Seeing you in pain is heartbreaking 😢❤
You've given me and all of us a great gift with your lecture series, and have enriched all our lives in wonderful ways!
You make me feel welcomed, and as part of your fellowship when I watch your videos - and I hope you can feel comfortable relying on all of us now in this time of grief. We love you John!
Thank you, dominix. I am so pleased that you feel welcomed. You are a part of our fellowship. Thank you for your love. The support this community brings me has filled my heart and soul.
I’m not a member of Community of Christ, but this channel has been such a wonderful blessing in my life. Before finding this channel, I had never read the Bible seriously or heard of Biblical criticism before, but through these videos I have learned so so much. To say that this channel and church have made an impact on my life would be the greatest of understatements. I am so sorry for this loss for your faith tradition. I know there will be brighter days ahead, but for now I will grieve this loss with you. Thank you for everything you guys do.
I am so happy that this channel has been a blessing in your life. Thank you also for grieving with me and for your words of wisdom and consolation
I'm a member of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints and see you and your community as brother and sister's in Jesus Christ.
Thank you
I'm a non-christian but I am so sorry for the hurt in your community. I hope you are all given plenty of support & kindness throughout the process. Best wishes.
Much love to you, John, and to your community. These things pass. YOU are the temple, and YOU are Zion.
Thank you for your wisdom and your love and support.
Final judgments 0:16 about individuals are to be given only by Christ.
Christian doctrine holds that Jesus is the Temple-- a doctrine that many denominations consider to forbid the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem. It comes up in debates with right wing "evangelicals", who think the Bible says a third temple will be rebuilt, but, others hold, Daniel was talking about the second temple, which was not finished until the late 60s AD, just before it was razed by the Romans. They hold that building another temple is blasphemy against the doctrine that Christ is the temple. And round & round we go.
@@StephanieSoressi Jesus said we are the temple and He dwells in us, not man made buildings.
The significance of God tearing the massive veil of the temple top to bottom is grossly underestimated.
John, I am not of your faith but I am so sorry you are having to experience this. I firmly believe in preserving history and respecting the spiritual traditions of all.
Thank you so much! I believe the same.
I believe The LDS will behave respectfully but it's never the same when you're someone else's guest.
I thought John was part of LDS. I don't understand what the difference is. Some kind of schism?
@@alanpennie8013 That I can understand
I feel your grief. I am sorry, we feel for your loss. I am a member of the Church of Jesus of Latter Day Saints.we were missionaries in nauvoo and got to know some of your fine people. I can’t imagine how much you are feeling of that loss .my love and prayers go out to you. carol
I foresaw and predicted this day when I was an RLDS Member (early 1990s). This sale is the beginning of the end of the existence of Community of Christ. My deepest condolences to Community of Christ and my friends thereof.
-- Kingston
I'm very sorry that your prediction came to fruition. I thank you for your condolences.
@@HamerToronto I’m sorry too. I just wish my brothers and sisters in the Church had listened to me; otherwise, this day would not have come. There’s still opportunities to overcome these hurdles, but I don’t think the leadership in your Church will listen. That’s what happened when I made my initial predictions.
I went with one of the conservative break-offs when the RLDS Church fell apart in the 1980s and 1990s, but it was never a good fit, and I ended up leaving the Restoration movement completely and joining the Episcopal Church. But the Kirtland Temple sale hit me like a ton of bricks. I preached there and look back on those days as a wonderful part of my faith journey. At first I was horrified that "the Mormons" now owned the building. But as I reflect on it more, I understand that it makes sense for people who really believe in the Restoration message to own it. As I try to fathom what the RLDS Church now is, I can't help thinking that the Church doesn't really believe God truly spoke to a modern prophet until the 1960s. Given that, the right thing may have happened.
Pastor John, I'm Catholic but I really love this channel and appreciate your work. I'm sorry for your loss. 😢
My heart reaches out to you and prayers of comfort are lifted to you in your mourning. I am sorry for the pain and disappointment you are dealing with. In January I purchased a tour package to see the temple this fall. I was very surprised at the news. I have visited Nauvoo and shopped at the red brick store and appreciated all that I learned from those members of your church while visiting. Peace to you and your congregation and other congregations. Prayers and love to you all. 🙏 ❤
John, your grief is profound and your love for these sacred sites touched me to the core. As an LDS member in Ohio, I have visited the Kirtland Temple since I was a young girl in the 1950s, and with my own children into the 1970s and 1980s. I’m older now, and when we have traveled to Kirtland and Nauvoo, your dedication to the preservation of these historic sites is so evident. I understand your grief and your loss.
Our family thanks you for saving these beautiful buildings and preserving them for the historic events that took place in them. You have done a magnificent job in helping them to be a place where others could learn and grow and experience the spiritual feelings regarding the specialness of them. May God bless you all for your efforts, and help you as you heal.
Wow! Thank you John for representing the emotions so many are feeling. Thank you for bringing Ancient Israel to our recollection. I hope the loss you feel will be somewhat comforted in the days and years ahead.
You are very welcome. The people of my family of faith are my great solace as we journey together in Christ's service.
I'm not a member of this church but I have been so impressed with CoC's ministry. I'm so sorry that you're all experiencing this grief and my heart is with you.
Thank you!
yes, same here. blessings and peace.
The community of Christ will prevail because it has honestly at its core, imagine how it must’ve felt for those who actually laboured and built the Kirkland temple and later the Navajo temple and had to walk away and leave it, well, not being ideal it could be a lot worse, God be with you till we meet again
the journey continues
I may not be a member of the Community of Christ, or LDS, but I do feel I am a member of the Centre Place community here digitally, And It hurts me to see John so full of pain, Sending love from my corner of the world to everyone affected by this event. I dont fully understand it, but I can mourn with you all just the same.
Kia Kaha - "stay strong" Ahau takuate me koe "I grieve with you"
Thank you for being part of our Centre Place community, for your love, for mourning alongside me, and for your wise words
Brothers and sisters of the restoration, the importance of your vigilance in preserving that first holy edifice, the house of The Lord, cannot be overstated. The work you continue will likewise be of tremendous importance to Jesus Christ.
Thank you
As a Latter-day Saint, I treasure the tours I've taken with Community of Christ members through many of these sites. I loved getting to know these CoC members and seeing the world through their eyes. I sorrow that we are losing this aspect of our continued friendship! I grieve with my sisters and brothers in the Community of Christ over this loss. I wish it could be otherwise. May we continue our friendship long into the future, ever loving members of the same family! ❤
Hearing you speak, my heart breaks. I'm a non-believer who has read and studied the Bible since my late teens (71 now). Listening to your lectures has been a strong tempering influence to my views of Christian faith. I know that the work you do brings comfort and joy to many. I hope for the best for you and those who love you. Peace.
Oh my goodness. I am so sorry to hear this. I know what the temple means to the community, and can't imagine how the community must be feeling. Despite being an atheist, I really enjoy John's lectures. I have learned so much, and find them soothing when i'm going through bad times. I won't say "thoughts and prayers" because I don't pray, but please know I am with you in empathy and spirit. If there is anything non believers can do to support, please let us know.
John, i feel your loss deeply. I too was raised in the Mormon Church in Minnesota i grew up feeling the genuine love of my fellow bothers and sisters in St Paul, went to BYU, served a mission, and left when i came out. I still miss the quiet strength i was surrounded by in my sunday worship. Leaving that behind caused me a similar grief. I have attended the Commmunity of Christ meeting in Walnut Creek. The people there were very kind, but it Made me realize how far i had come from my childhood beliefs. I assume that process Will continue for the rest of my life. I hope the same for you
I'm a latter-day Saint. I think I speak for many when I say...let's consider it BOTH our collective temple...❤
the coc are also latter day saints
My heart goes out to you and your fellows in the Community of Christ. I say with respect that it is my privilege to appreciate what a beautiful soul you are simply by waiting for and watching your marvellous lectures.
Your congregation so clearly have a beautiful bond together and I feel the love for the world that you all share.
I know you are all blessed by God. 🙏🙏🏼🩵🙏🏼🙏🏼
I for one am so sorry for your grief and I am greatly appreciative of how lovingly and thoughtfully and ever so carefully you all have taken care of this sacred and precious treasure. We may be different in our faith, but we are all beloved children of God.
Thank you
Thank you John...at age 85 I have endured unbearable losses. However God got me through and drew me closer to Him...all things material cannot take His place. You will come to feel this too.❤
Thank you for your testimony!
I have been enthralled by John's insight on the history of Christianity and particularly of Mormonism. I really am sorry for your personal loss, but I cannot deny my disappointment in the leadership of the Community of Christ.
Thank you
As a member of the LDS church, I served my mission in Kirtland and pray the new owners treat these sites with the same respect and devotion worthy of what they are owed.
Thank you for your prayers and your thoughtfulness.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints always have respect for the Kirkland Church area, and their supporters and respect will not cease.
Ya know, I bet we will. As we do with all our properties.
@joelmcentirel
There is no question in my mind that we will - absolutely none whatsoever.
I was in kirtland in 2022. I was visiting from utah. It was an amazing experience for me. I toured the kirtland temple for the first time. But I got there late . The last tour of the day had already started and this was the only chance i'd have to see it before i had to go back to utah.
The COC representatives in the visitors center were so nice . They allowed me and my brother and our friend to go in still and even escorted us in. I am very grateful for that .
It had always been something i had wanted to do. And i was not disappointed. The spirit in that temple was strong. I was excited when i found out the church here in utah had bought it from COC , but then my excitement turned to mourning for COC.
I was treated very kindly by COC during my visit to the Kirtland temple and I am truly saddened for your loss.
Thank you for sharing your experience and for your kind words.
Brother Hamer. I have enjoyed several of your presentations over the years. Though not a member of your denomination the Apostle Paul has taught us to, “Mourn with those that mourn.” Romans 12. I pray that the Spirit may comfort you and the many others who have the sense of loss you so eloquently conveyed.
My wish to you is from Numbers 6:24-
24 The Lord bless thee, and keep thee:
25 The Lord make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
26 The Lord lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.
Shalom my brother in Christ.
John Thompson
I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints - I feel for those of you who are feeling grief and loss. I am sorry. Thank you for your ongoing stewardship of these mutually important properties and historical relics. Without your efforts and charity over decades, millions of visitors would never have had the privilege of visiting, and feeling the sacredness of these properties. I genuinely hope the worldwide leadership council of the CoC, use the financial resources from the sale for the true benefit of the membership.
Thank you so much for your kind and thoughtful words, they are appreciated
This was so healing, the Spirit will continue to lead us. Many Blessings!
I am so pleased you have had this response. I too feel healing from sharing with this community, from all the love and support as well as the acknowledgement of grief and pain. Thank you and blessings!
“Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.”
Just another who is grateful for your existence. 🙏🙏🙏
Thank you for your blessings and your grace
I understandJohn...my heart broke too. My father often shared his testimony of visiting Kirtland while attending Graceland. I have my own testimonies of several visits there, including a resurgence of my faith. Just one more hurdIe i guess, in our discipleship with Christ. Let us continue to be Fully Alive in His presence which we profess goes Beyond the Walls to all sectors of Earth and Beyond.
Thank you, I grieve with you, and still look to the horizon with hope.
You ARE beyond the walls, even to those outside of your religious community John.
We feel your grief and I for one, am saddened.
Be strong. The creator of everything works through you with love, compassion and learning.
Thank you for all that you do for the betterment of all 🙏💜
I am so sorry to the whole CoC. As a person raised LDS , your lectures and welcoming brilliance has saved my bond and connection to the Mormon tradition. The CoC has stewarded these sacred sites with such honesty and thoughtful discernment. I'm so sorry and weep with you for this loss. I'm deeply sorry
I visited Kirkland about 16 years ago and really enjoyed my time there. 😢
Your lectures and the joyful inclusive tone of online worship has been comfort and sustenance as I’ve lived in a very rural and isolated area the last few years. Sorry for the pain and shock of this loss for all affected.
I’m so sorry for your loss. A short-sighted decision, to be sure. You are a light to many and I believe the legacy of your teaching will last for a very long time indeed. Thank you.
Short sighted? They were broke. They had to sell it. They had no choice. This has been inevitable for decades.
Thank you very much
It hurts me to see you hurting may God Almighty lessen your grief and soothe your soul. Amen
Thank you for your prayer
Thank you for sharing your heart to is. It means a lot
Thank you for being with me to share.
In our joy in getting the Kirkland Temple, we had no idea that there would be this sense of loss. The temple will always be open to all restorationists and to all people.
John.. I just watched your presentation and feel your grief when the temple was sold. It is the same grief I felt when in 1985 I withdrew my membership from the RLDS. This was due to the revelation of women being ordained into the priesthood, the temple being built with the wrong design, wrong place and for the wrong reason. Other reasons also I won’t get into. Even though we are not in the same denomination I respect and like your work and dedication to the history of the church. As a priesthood member I meet in the homes of the saints and as long as I’m alive, I will continue to preserve the gospel as taught in 1830. May God continue to bless you.
Thank you for your respect and blessing, and for your dedication to our common tradition, as we honor our callings in our individual denominations.
I appreciate how the Community of Christ were such good stewards of the Kirtland Temple and the Smith family historical sites. I appreciate how us members of other LDS sects were allowed access so we too could enjoy these sacred sites. I hope the church in Utah continues to run and maintain these sites as they have been.
I understand your grief but your love of Jesus and his teachings and the fellowship of your community will see you through this. Best wishes from Ireland.
Thank you, I know your words are true
Oh John I am so so sorry to hear of your loss. I’ve been following you for a while and your message is amazing. I see the divine working through you. I’m new to this and watch your channel every night. You have brought such amazing clarity to a Christian newbie. Thank you thank you thank you for everything. I hope your pain is lifted soon 🙏
John, thank you for you reflection. I,too, have grieved and you reminder of the many losses of "things" over the ions of time. One thing remains; the love over Jesus Christ and the abiding Holy Spirit. Our own stories fill in the story of God's presence.
We can all second-guess the way decisions were made, but I have come to realize it is probably to our folly. We can all move forward and do better on so many plains. To that I commit.
Again, I too grieve and long to give space for others to process what happened. I long for new realization of the role of our own stories and our personal spirit of generosity as we press into our future, our legacies, and our stories.
Blessings to you and the ministry Beyond the Walls as we continue to share our stories and continue to respond to God's call to the future.
John, I empathize with your grief and sense of loss. Same for all of you and everyone, everywhere. I'm probably the last person on earth that you would expect this from since I'm just a humanist and have no religion. Why am I here then? I'm always here. I enjoy listening to your lectures and benefiting from your vast knowledge. I often go to churches, at least twice a month. Which church? Any church, because it's all about the people to me, their kindness, and imperfections that I see HUGE value in. I'm that quiet guy in the corner of the churches trying not to bother anyone. I often donate to whatever is important to them and which also makes sense to me: Hunger, illnesses... I once was a believer, I'm not asking anyone else to not believe. Actually, one of my favorite warnings to myself and everyone else is: Be careful, God could pop up out of nowhere and slap you in the face. With that in mind, I try to proceed with caution in all that I do. I used to be that kid carrying a Bible everywhere I went. Then, one day, I looked around me and everyone, imperfect or not, kind to me or not, turned golden, and it's never changed. I'm not sure what you all are sad about losing? I ask myself: Why are the golden people sad? Liss of Buildings? Paintings? Statues? One day I hope you all will see in yourselves what I see in you. Who is God to me? You are. Each and every one of you. I can be killed or punished for what I'm saying, you think? Probably, but I'm worth noting, you all are everything. Imperfect and beautiful.✌️
So sorry for your loss. So grateful for the wonderful work you put into the universe. You are so loved and appreciated.
Thank you
This atheist feminist witch really feels for you, John. I can't tell you how many times I've listened to your lectures and the sound of your voice has been a comfort. I'm so sorry for the loss you're experiencing, and I wish you all the healing in the world.
I get a sense that many people on here feel that the CoC leadership have betrayed their calling, and that's a very upsetting suspicion to have.
Thank you for your kind words and your wishes, my sister in the loving atheist feminist witch community
I'm a pagan/Buddhist/Maronite Catholic/witch (no matter what THEY think!), and want to add my sorrow to my sister's, above. I'll keep you in my prayers, magick, and ordinary secular good wishes. When I do the Loving Kindness Meditation, I'll put you in the circle just beyond the circle of my BFFs. Please FEEL us, even those of us who don't share your belief, sharing your grief, because belief and Faith are not the same thing. You have our Love. ❤
As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I want to extend a warm embrace of fellowship in your loss. I had a sense upon hearing the news that this would be very difficult for members of the Community of Christ. On the other hand, seeing this transaction or other collaborations between our faiths in recent decades has heartened me in other ways as well.
Truthfully, the chasm that has existed between our churches has gone on for much too long. I pray that members of the Community of Christ will still feel welcome in all these properties. We are indeed brothers and sisters.
Thank you for your warm embrace
i usually lurk. dont have much to add to society anymore. im so sorry for your loss. hate to see another human in pain about something they clearly care about. ive enjoyed your lectures for quite some time and wish you the best in the coming days. youve taught me so much about religion and its origins. thankful. sending you good vibes.
Thank you for being with us in the lectures and for your thanks and good vibes
Who was the purchaser of this building? I find this so unsettling that a congregation of such impeccable quality is being disrupted.
The lecture series I came upon just 1.5 years ago and it has been a daily learning experience that has brought me closer to the truth of true believing. The scholarship is incomparable and you, John, have carried me through very difficult transformation which still needs your voice, your knowledge and the goodness of your personality. I am in the US and wonder where and when you will be available in the future. I had daydreams of finding my way to your church and meeting you and being among the congregation on a visit. My respect for you John, Mr Hamer, is higher than any university professor I have had and, you are the only pastor I have trusted.
Thank you for your respect and trust, Mary. Just for clarification, you can still come and visit me and my congregation here in Toronto. We have not sold Toronto Centre Place and our Centre Place ministries will not be discontinued. The Temple is in Ohio and was in the stewardship of my congregation's denominational leaders. They have sold it to our cousins in the Restoration tradition, a much larger denomination. The issue to me is more about loss of a sacred heritage and a failing of sacred stewardship than simply history or anything as materialistic as the ownership of a building.
I hope this will not appear dismissive, but if The Temple had to be sold The LDS are probably the best custodians.
I do understand how distressing this is.
Dear John, I am quite relieved to hear Center Place, you, your ministry and lectures will remain! Thank you so much for your reply. My level of appreciation has soared with the near loss!
The Temple which I have only now learned of, is a sad situation. The photo history showed not only its magnificent beauty but the people who imbued it with love and connectedness, making its provenance all that more unique. No doubt hard to absorb.
I will once again entertain a visit to Toronto to experience the fullness of your church. Once again thank you for all you do. Mary
I can't imagine your loss. I am grateful the LDS church will continue to allow your community to use the temple.
So sorry for this grievous religious upheaval. You have shown me that the true love of God, if there be one, is with what you and your spiritual family has shown us.
Thank you for your kind words.
Oh. Something hust occured to me. Ive seen houses foundations : ships factory products.: well im tryin to say. I can build you a. 1000 year tempke with a credit card and a home depot.. ii would use a lot of concrete.. and mold it to your liking
Its not the temple. The temple is inanimate. But it does give a radiant preasence. Safety and achievment.
Hark. Do not be swallowed up into the abysmal deplorable grief. This is a natural phenomena. True it is sad to see such a thing. ..to see dwindling parishes and support.
Back in psych class during the death n dying and grieving lec. It was said at the end. There is always a new begginning. Those who survive must now play thier role. That is Prophet. Or die trying. And then the cycle renews with your disciples
My heart goes out to you. Like so many members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, below, I appreciate the stewardship you have had over these artifacts and the Kirtland Temple, itself. It is still yours and ours. We love all those who love the Savior. May your church be able to go forward with your goals through this exchange and may it be a win/win for both parties as we both prepare for the Second Coming of the Lord, Jesus Christ.
Thank you for sharing your heart and for your hope for us
Thanks John your teaching it help me to understand the Bible more than anyone.sorry for this injustice and loss
You are very welcome and I thank you for your support.
The other day my 6 year daughter expressed a lot of sorrow in how a lot of things in her room had changed recently. She got a new bed, a new rug, a new dresser, a new ceiling fan, etc, all within a few months and she said it sort of hit her that her life is moving along and that she was leaving one season of life behind and entering another, and she had a sense of loss about the season she was leaving. I didn't want to hush or suppress her grief because I know what she means. It is sad to leave seasons of life behind. I don't want to leave my 6 year old to get my 7 year old. I want my daughters at all their ages, but I can only have one age at a time and have to say goodbye to ages in order to meet new ages.
Another time I told a different daughter when she was about 3, that I didnt want her to grow up any more. I said I loved the way she was at 3 and wanted to keep her that way, so I said she cant grow up any more. She responded by saying, "I can't help it. Jesus is making me."
I also had a sad moment the other day and as I was trying to explain it to my daughters I said I want to explain it because y'all are going to have sad days like this too, and one of the things you'll find is that as time passes God somehow makes it okay.
I discovered your channel about a month ago and got totally hooked. I've watched a ton of your videos and learned a lot. I became a Christian about 20 years ago at a church that is a descendant of the Stone-Campbell restoration movement, and I never realized until listening to your show how closely related the Later-Day Saint movement is to the Stone-Campbell movement. We are sort of cousin movements in a way. As a movement cousin so to speak, I want to express my sympathy for the sense of loss you have when considering the season that has just past, and my encouragement that in time God will make it okay.
One of the things I told my 6 year old when she was upset about all the things in her room changing was "That's true. A lot of things are changing, but you still have me and mom, and your sisters, so even though a lot of things are changing, a lot of things are staying the same too." And she found that comforting. Jesus said whatever happens, whatever changes, he will always be with us, even to the end of the age, so some things will always be the same.
Thank you, for your passionate video.
I did not understand this loss until I started listening to your video. My late aunt and cousins were members of the Reorganized Church.
My condolences. Glen M.
I am deeply sorry for the loss and the suffering you are feeling John. I want to validate that feeling in light of people saying it’s just a building too. It can be hard for some people to relate.
Pastor, I mourn with you. I often visit the Temple to sit amongst the lingering voices of my ancestors, “The spirit of Gods like a fire is burning; the latter-day glory begins to come forth…” Their hope, faith, love and strength created a future into which I was born. Hear my prayers for you, your congregation, for me and for us all. May we join together in a moment of awe.
My brothers and sisters or as some may say, my Mormon cousins my heart is full of love and inclusion with this news. For many of my Brighamite Utah Mormon brothers and sisters it’s the first they’ve heard or had a better understanding of your faith. I believe a connection has been made that could be fostered into an even stronger bond between the two communities with the prophet Joseph Smith and the sacred doctrines he revealed. Now let’s see what our communities do with the large sums of earthly money they both possess.
Sending you love John you bring me so much joy and wisdom. Grief is a burden best shared, so even though I am not a member of the Community of Christ I hope my prayers bring some comfort.
Thank you for your love and for your prayers and for your wisdom, they are all comforts.
I’ve never been any kind of Mormon but this is truly heartbreaking.
Thank you for feeling my heart, even though the context is foreign
I’m so sorry for your loss
I pray that your hearts will be comforted ❤️
John, your lectures have become one of my favorite channels on TH-cam, for your knowledge, your intellect, your humor, and your humanity. So I am deeply saddened by the profound distress that you are experiencing. I wish you solace.
🙏
🖖
Russell
P.S. I grew up near and saw the Kirtland Temple many times, and appreciated it as a historic artifact. To learn of it being disposed of in this way is rather shocking.
Thank you for sharing this pain with me and for your kind wishes, your heartening words, and shared sense of shock.
Thank you for your thoughts. Wrest assured, we will take very good care of all the items. They mean so must to us as well.👍🇦🇺🙏
From the Salt Lake Church we Love you.
Thank you for your love, my cousin in the Restoration
I really appreciated your work. It opened my mind in many ways…i wish the best for you
John, ever since "meeting" you on Rick Bennett's channel, I have thought well of you.
(You appeared there with Lachlan
a few years ago.)
I visited The Kirtland Temple in early July of 2020. No tours were permitted during covid. But a very pleasant groundskeeper, Brother Steve, with a sweet testimony shared what he could of that wonderful space. I was moved deeply that there is no other place on earth where we can definitely say, within a few square feet, that God condescended!
But know that these Holy Temple stones were not crushed to powder, the relics not scattered the gold not stolen. You and others of the Restoration are still welcome within those hallowed walls while recieving the benefits of the sale.
I hope that The Community of Christ will return to a place of fiscal strength. I remember when it was so. As a youth I benefited from that strength at one of the lovely RLDS camps at Idyllwild California where over the years our Stake had several overnighters. Your caretakers were splendid hosts and very non-judgmentally put up with a lot of nonsense from our youth.
However, dear Brother I know your grief is real and that it will be for awhile. Please know that many of us in the brighamite clan are not indifferent.
God bless you John Hamer and all of the Community of Christ!
Thank you
My heart goes out to John and all the members of Centre Place at this tragic loss. Even as an Atheist I feel your pain 😞
My dear John Hamer, I don't know you, but I can perceive that you are a man of faith. What happened with the Kirtland Temple seems like it was more important money and it seems that whoever has it, has more advantage. I share with you your mourn and I also share your devotion. It 's close the time when money shall have no more power than dried weeds. Let us hope for that time and let us be worthy to be alive in that day when all elements shall burn and only the ones who have chosen the spirt of prophesy as a guide will be saved by fire.
You’re amazing, John. Thank you for all you do for us❤️
Thank you for your kind words.
I understand stand the lost. From what I understand it will ultimately be a huge blessing for everyone involved. The Community of Christ will be able to meet their financial obligations and the Utah LDS will be able to preserve the temple and expand its access for everyone to enjoy together and visit and feel the spirit there as often as desired.
Very well said! You have great insight and great strength. I certainly hope Community of Christ sees that! I hope Community of Christ will call you to a position to manage their finances. With your insight, you will be able to help them move forward in such a positive wonderful way! May God bless you and Community of Christ as they move forward. Thank you Community of Christ for your great care and stewardship of this beautiful temple, along with the other properties and artifacts, for so many years.♥️🙏🏼
Ps 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
That psalm has always moved me as an expression of loss.
Grief is hard. Losing something you love is hard. I am sure all of us who join your program often are praying for you - I am.
Thank you for your wisdom and your prayers, both are appreciated
Its more than that. Its a betrayal. Selling the Book of Mormon to the Catholic church? Would you call that grief or betrayal and fraud?
i had experienced the whole program live, at noon and at 6pm again; and i watched the whole again.-- and i tuned into the Zoom which world church presented for meditation and (grieving).... i had thought i was being ghoul-ish, repeating the BTW.. but i am thankful to know that 1-- i was not being selfish, to listen to this again, 2-- that others felt the same way, in fact that this compilation was made of several parts of the BTW 3/10/2024. i'm so glad that this compliaton does include: the ittle video movie of modern people, ...at the KTemple and even the musical response to the hymn, which showed that modern group, departing the building.
in case i let my point get lost.... thank you for putting this one together. ... i'm still "in denial" and probably will remain here for several months ....
Sincerely mourn with you. We will take care of it and you will always be welcomed by Latter-day Saints.
You do know himself is an Ex Mormon though
@@ambarvalia9757 So?
@@saimaleon7115 You talked as if you did not know
They are also LDS too the R version though
Upon hearing the news, I just felt sad for the immense loss to the Community of Christ and to the sacrifice and integrity with which they have cared for these spaces and artifacts of our broader Mormon/Restorationist history. For me, someone who formerly belonged to the Salt Lake church, these artifacts and sites represent a part of my history. But these were part of your culture and actual lives. I fully expect that the Community of Christ will do more good with the funds gained from this transaction than the LDS church ever would have, but I grieve for the loss that this is and that it represents.
My hope for the future is that this will be galvanizing for the Community of Christ as the tribulations John discusses galvanized their respective peoples and generations.