I served my mission in Missouri independence mission in 99-2001.Watching this video brings my memory back when I serve has a missionary, those places it brings me tears in my heart..the saints sacrifice a lot for us 😭😭
I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I'm also a very curious individual so learning about church history is always a fun experience! That being said, we must be careful not to associate opinions as facts.
A Few False Prophecies of Joseph Smith, Founder of the Mormon Cult *In 1835 Joseph Smith prophesied the Lord’s return within 56 years (History of the Church, Vol. 2, pg. 182). By 1891 this was proven to be a false prophecy. *In 1843 Joseph Smith prophesied that the United States government would be overthrown and wasted within a few years if they refused to redress the wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri (History of the Church, Vol. 5, pg. 394). The United States government has never formally redressed any wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri and the government still stands nearly 170 years later. *In 1832 Joseph Smith prophesied that the present generation of Mormons would not pass away before the temple of the New Jerusalem would be built in Zion, Missouri (Doctrine & Covenants Section 84). The Mormons were forced to flee Missouri and no temple was constructed there in Joseph Smith’s lifetime or within the generation that witnessed this prophecy. *In 1832 Joseph Smith prophesied that the United States civil war would eventually engulf all nations (Doctrine & Covenants Section 87). This prophecy did not come close to being fulfilled. Joseph Smith made many other false prophecies in his lifetime. By the standards of God’s word, he must be labeled a false prophet (Deuteronomy 18:20-22).
Very true, I've been in the church all my life and it's become easier to see opinions that are not facts, I know it's been a year, are you still curious, I'm not a missionary but I'm sure I can try!
For places still so far removed from society, it's amazing how much of history have traversed these locations. Adam, Jaredities, Nephities, Lamanites, pioneers...
Far removed from society? You can see Kansas City, Missouri from there, and the city of Independence is rather a large suburb. I assure you that Adam, Jaredites, Nephites, Laminites, were never there. Pioneers, yes.
Thank you for sharing your valuable insights! As Latter-Day Saints, we can all agree that if we are called to be somewhere else, the prophet will let us know. In the meantime, I will focus on developing my personal revelations and contributing to the building of Zion in my current location. With the Lord's return getting closer, let us all strive to be a light to those around us.
This video was so profound. It helped me have so much more understanding of why Kirtland, Temple and the surrounding buildings are so important to our church. I really appreciate all the stories, and I felt the spirit so strong.
Considering that there are the quotes from Heber C Kimball, Orson Pratt, George A Smith and other Apostles/Prophets all post D&C 124 that express the need to go back to Jackson County, with some saying specifically to build the temple there, there appears to be more prophetic indication that there will be a return than not. Brigham Young in 1856 made specific mention in regard to going back "...for this people will surely go back to Jackson County. How soon that may be, or when it may be, I do not care; but that is not now the gathering place for this people". Heber C Kimball said in 1857 "We never shall leave these valleys-till we get ready; no, never; no, never. We will live here till we go back to Jackson County, Missouri. I prophesy that, in the name of Israel's God. [The congregation shouted “Amen,” and President B. Young said, “It is true.”]" It is evident that Apostles and Prophets who participated in the events surrounding the revelations given about Jackson County certainly believed in D&C 124 but also believed in a return to Jackson County to build a temple and Zion there. In D&C 136:18 the Lord says, "Zion shall be redeemed in mine own due time." implying that there was some chastening going on that section 124 initiated but that the statement that “Zion shall not be moved out of her place, notwithstanding her children are scattered,” is still the plan for the center place of Zion, in Jackson County, Missouri, which will be redeemed and sanctified before the millennium.
Pres Nelson in 1974 (as general Sunday school president) also made a specific statement that the Lord would come to Jackson County before His millennial reign. This could be in reference to Him coming to His temple in the New Jerusalem and to Adam-ondi-Ahman. The Sunday School manuals do reference that "The center place of Zion, Jackson County, Missouri, will be redeemed and sanctified." and "These events are to prepare for the great millennial era and its attendant blessings."@@nancid5265
You're totally right. This tradition continued on for several generations. The key thing pointed out in the video is that 1) the latest word from the Lord himself is that he requires the work of building up Jackson County and the temple there is required at their hands "no more" (D&C 124:49-51), and 2) that after D&C 124 was received, Joseph Smith himself didn't expect that the New Jerusalem temple would be build there. Joseph took the Lord at his word. Other Church leaders apparently struggled to let go of this idea. Today you'll notice no Church leaders hold on to this idea or teach it. Elder Holland, for instance, explained in 2012, taught, "Zion. The promised land. The New Jerusalem. Where is it? Well, we’re not sure, but we’ll find it.... In these last days, in this our dispensation, we would become mature enough … to plant our feet and our families and our foundations in every nation, kindred, tongue, and people permanently. Zion would be everywhere-wherever the Church is. And with that change-one of the mighty changes of the last days-we no longer think of Zion as where we are going to live; we think of it as how we are going to live.” (CES Devotional, 9 September 2012). That's quite different from what Brigham Young taught, isn't it? (But quite similar to Joseph Smith's post-D&C 124 thoughts).
What is the method then to identify a prophet's statement as a "tradition" rather than a prophetic witness in support of what the Lord said must come to pass? Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Nearly 100 years have passed since the site of Zion was dedicated and the spot for the temple was chosen, and some of the members of the Church seem to be fearful lest the word of the Lord shall fail. Others have tried to convince themselves that the original plan has been changed and that the Lord does not require at our hands this mighty work which has been predicted by the prophets of ancient times. We have not been released from this responsibility, nor shall we be. The word of the Lord will not fail. If we look back and examine his word carefully, we will discover that nothing has failed of all that he has predicted, neither shall one jot or tittle pass away unfulfilled. It is true that the Lord commanded the saints to build to his name a temple in Zion. This they attempted to do, but were prevented by their enemies, so the Lord did not require the work at their hands at that time. The release from the building of the temple did not, however, cancel the responsibility of building the City and the House of the Lord, at some future time. When the Lord gets ready for it to be accomplished, he will command his people, and the work will be done." (Doctrines of Salvation, 3 vols., edited by Bruce R. McConkie)
@@ReadyNeck That's a good quote. What it tells me is that Joseph Fielding Smith was convinced that in D&C 124:49-51 the Lord was simply exempting that immediate generation from the task of building up Jackson County and its Temple "at that time." While I respect that view, we need to acknowledge that the Lord didn't actually say "at that time," Joseph Fielding Smith did. For me, both the Lord's exact language here of "it behooveth me to require that work no more at the hands of those sons of men," as well as Joseph Smith's own post-D&C 124 statements regarding Zion suggest that we no longer need to hold to the "Jackson County = the New Jerusalem" idea. Joseph Smith didn't seem to hold to that view any more. He was convinced the New Jerusalem would still be built up upon the American continent (A of F 1:10), but he let go of the idea of Jackson County being the ground zero. Joseph Fielding Smith clearly views the evidence differently and, again, I respect that.
@@scott.woodward If you consider the perspective of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Heber C Kimball, Orson Pratt and others of their day, they understood these revelations in some context differently than how one today might view them looking back on them in retrospect. They experienced them sequentially, as answers to the questions of their day and not in hindsight looking at them as a whole collectively. Consider that the Lord first told them of Zion in D&C 28:9 and said: "And now, behold, I say unto you that it is not revealed, and no man knoweth where the city Zion shall be built, BUT IT SHALL BE GIVEN hereafter. Behold, I say unto you that it shall be on the borders by the Lamanites." This revelation came first, prior to and independent of any mention of Jackson County and the center place and the "works" that the saints would be called to perform by their hands and without the thought that their efforts would ultimately fall short. In other words, the Lord told them the location of Zion, all be it a very general one, but said specifically that the location "shall be given" later which indicates a specific place not something that would be adjusted later. It was almost a year later when the Lord fulfilled that first revelation and revealed specifically where the center place would be as stated in D&C 57 at which point, they were told to start buying up tracks of land and to build a temple. The location of Zion was fixed in their minds as a revealed fact confirming the prior revelation of the Lord that the location would be revealed. It was a specific location where all the prophetic accounts that spoke of Zion and the New Jerusalem would be accomplished. If the New Jerusalem could be somewhere else in America, or anyplace else for that matter why send the saints to Jackson County if not for the specific reason that it had been designated to be there, prophesied of being there, seen in dreams and visions of being there, and foretold about being there for thousands of years? And, they also had received D&C 101:17 where the Lord says that “Zion shall not be moved out of her place” further cementing the understanding and context of the Lords will even before being given D&C 124. The scriptures are the best commentary on the scriptures and this location is central to so much that has been recorded in them. If Joseph no longer held the view about Jackson County, he certainly didn't communicate that to those around him as the saints were very much impressed of the need to redeem Zion at some future point either during or also after his life. It was still on their minds as they were forced out of Nauvoo and the Lord revealed to Brigham Young in D&C 136:17,18 "Go thy way and do as I have told you, and fear not thine enemies; for they shall not have power to stop my work. Zion shall be redeemed in mine own due time." which is the same thing the Lord told Joseph Smith in D&C 100:13 "And now I give unto you a word concerning Zion. Zion shall be redeemed, although she is chastened for a little season." The Lord then is leaving the door open to redeem Zion just not "at that time". It was mentioned in the video that Joseph Smith didn't record any further comment for returning to Jackson County for the last three years of his life but neither did he say anything stating otherwise which neither supports or defends either of our arguments. Neither does the Lord say in D&C 124 that Zion/New Jerusalem has been moved to some new place in America, only that "it behooveth me to require that work no more at the hands...". We do however, have a long "tradition" of Apostles and Prophets since the time of Joseph that do witness of one day returning to redeem Zion and build a temple in Jackson County Missouri. This isn't then a simple traditional view that will one day go away but a desire of the Lord's servants to testify of the future fulfillment of the prophecies the Lord has given and which have been witnessed to from Brigham Young to Russell M Nelson.
This is so great! Love how well you guys explain things. Also been listening to your History Matters podcast so it's fun to put some faces to the voices!!
Its crazy watching this. I grew up there as a member (still am) and i went to these places all the time, and never really knew their importance, just that i loved it there.
Excellent video. My son now lives a couple miles north of Adam-Ondi-Ahman. He's a bit knowledgeable on Church history, and obtained their home there and acreage just east of the Far West site you visited under amazing, even miraculous circumstances. He's also one of the few people who have been allowed to go into the closed off area at Adam-Ondi-Ahman.
I can't wait for the building up of Missouri and coming forward to future temples. I am excited. I would like to visit these places. I would like to go to Spring Hill.
So much for my wishful plans to move to Jackson County, Missouri! I'm home from church because I'm sick and I'm so glad that while listening to a message from General Conference, this video came up on my feed. It was so informative. Thank you Brother Griffiths and Brother Woodward!
@@1anniehiatt Their research is legit. They are church historians after all. They quoted scriptures referring to the land not needing to be used at the moment. As far as it being used again to build, it would require further revelation. We simply don't know, but a lot of members seem to assume it will be used again. The only confirmed thing we do know is that Adam-ondi-Ahman will be the gathering place of Israel.
There are many books written by current and deceased apostles clearly teaching that New Jerusalem will 100% be built there in the future. Elder Lund talks about it extensively in his book published in 2021. Its a confirmed part of the last days events leading to the Saviors return.
Interesting video however just because the Lord did not require the Saints of that day any longer to build the New Jerusalem temple at that time does not mean it will not be required of a future generation. There are many leaders of the church throughout church history after the time of Joseph Smith state that the Temple will be built there someday. Brigham Young is quoted as saying the center stake of Zion is Jackson County, Missouri.I think that is just the personal opinion of that man you interviewed. Time will tell what is true.
It's an interesting question. I think Scott was good about explaining that at present we have no commandment to build in Jackson county but that the Lord could still require it at some future date.
I think two things can be true at the same time!! Yes, we do not have a command from the Lord to build there now. Which is a very good reason why those locations are not built now. However, it is clear through the testimony of the Prophets that we will infact build the city of New Jerusalem and the Temples there. And may I just say we are not far from that time!
@@flossietube2065 “And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband… And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.” Revelation 21
@tatiakey2735 Okay, so I read that chapter and it's not talking about the second coming. Where Zion from above meets Zion from below. That chapter is referring to the end of the millennium! A time when the Earth will receive her Celestrial glory. In that time there will be no need for Temples as we know them today. The work for the dead will have been completed by then.
Love this, almost has a myth debunked feeling, thank you for sharing your knowledge with us, Also love your site visits as for some of us thats the only way we can reach those places.
"Our duty is to raise up a generation of men and women worthy to receive the coming of the Lord. For he will come - 👉to Jackson County, Missouri, 👈to be sustained as King of Kings - and he will come also to Israel to be hailed as Lord of Lords. Then his millennial reign will be ushered in." Four lessons from one life time President Nelson. Elder at the time
@@LetZionRise Take it easy! We are all just trying to figure out and understand these things...no one knows everything. Let's all appreciate each other's efforts.
This quote is from a talk given at BYU (not General Conference) in 1974 when he was General Sunday School President. Has he or any of the apostles said anything more recent on Jackson County? Does this one reference constitute absolute truth or opinion of one man at one time? Elder Christofferson taught: “It should be remembered that not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. It is commonly understood in the Church that a statement made by one leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, not meant to be official or binding for the whole Church.” In the following conference, Elder Andersen taught this principle: “The doctrine is taught by all 15 members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve. It is not hidden in an obscure paragraph of one talk.” Both of these were then quoted by President Oaks in 2019. Let's not assume that everything that Russell M. Nelson said in his life is binding on the Lord or His Gospel and Church.
@@urubu715 Sounds good #1 Needs to be one of the 15 Prophets Seers and Revelators at the time of said quote #2 Talks of Returning to redeem New Jerusalem/ Mount Zion/Jackson County Mo. post settled in Utah #3 Let's see if It is a concert of clarity as Elder Bednar had said or a one off of personal opinion from President Nelson. #4 @urubu715 You fit all this criteria but for #1 we are not going back definitively To redeem Zion/ Jackson County/ New Jerusalem Or #2 We just simple are left in the Dark and we don't know or are unsure that this is the destiny of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
So the church is Zionist, isn't it? I remember in 2018 they were crazy about gathering Israel.... Now I hear building Zion.... When I ask questions at the church, nobody knows.... But asking for 💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰 giving my hardworking 💰 and not having part in it, sounds like a scam for me. Where's the customer service? 😮
Your right. And this is THEIR opinion. 😊 Just because it’s shot like a documentary, doesn’t mean it’s true. They’ve conveniently left out other scripture and prophetic statements that doesn’t support their opinion. They are reading scriptures through a myopic lens and not within the revealed “big picture” context. In summary, they are interpreting scripture and history the way their seminary teachers told them not to.
Thank you for watching @lmfarms4611! They put a lot of time studying these topics. We're blessed to have these two BYU Religoius professors helping us out!
@@churchhistorymatterspodcast they do know a lot . And are appreciated . But they do have opinions on some things . What he says here is not the complete whole truth . He hadn’t searched it out enough . There is so much information on this subject and none of it is opinions . They’d is a lot I mean a whole lot from prophets and apostles on this subject and he is telling incorrect things on this subject . He needs to dig deeper on this . Jared has a whole play list on this s Jr t on Christian homestead . He really searched things out . That is why a lot of people like his channel . He backs up every word he says through prophets and apostles . No his words . It is incredible how he can find what prophets have said on so many subjects . Especially on this . There is just so much history on it . A lot of true information . Not myths .
I’m a Mormon. We should believe the Scriptures, not man. And the Scriptures testify the Mormon Church is the only true Church of Jesus Christ on Earth. But if something is taught that can't be verified by Scripture, think twice about believing it. I understand why so many people are leaving the church. Many false doctrines exist causing countless TH-cam videos mocking Mormonism. False doctrines like grandpa gods, (God the Father has a father), Mormons becoming gods of their own planets, Adam helped create the earth, Christ and Satan are brothers, God the Father has rarely spoken in Scripture, the African Americans were bad in the pre-existence; all of which no Scripture verifies. And each Sunday the Sacrament is tainted because only Elders and Priests can administer but the Deacons prepare/administer, and the Teachers pass/administer the Sacrament. (D&C 20:57) And the Lord says, He’s bound when we do what He says but if not there is no promise. (D&C 82:10) …that the scriptures might be fulfilled; for ye shall do according to that which is written. (D&C 24:14) And we wonder why there’s depression, mental illness and other unspeakable events among us? And many are leaving the church because if you don't fit the mold the church leaders sculpture you're not a part of the click. Mormons believe the church leaders over Scripture. The zealous believers have the church leaders in mind with everything thing they think say and feel testifying to impress others how much they believe the current church leaders are God-inspired. But the Scriptures reveal the church leaders are the problem with the entire Planet. For example, In 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 we are informed of a person revealed as the son of perdition. This son of perdition sits in the temple of God making himself God or above all that is called God. Therefore, if the Mormon Church is the only true church, then the only person 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 could be talking about is the current Mormon prophet. For what other church is the one and only true Church with temples? And Joseph Smith taught a son of perdition can only be a church member holding all the rites of God's priesthood and using the priesthood against God as did Judas. Therefore, who else other than the current Mormon prophet could the apostle Paul be speaking of? It's as plain as the nose on a face. And even God in the Doctrine and Covenants tells us about the current church leaders and how displeased He is saying the end of this world will begin among them. (D&C 112:23-26) Joseph Smith taught the false doctrine of grandpa gods (God the Father has a father) not over the pulpit as a prophet but as a sermon at a funeral, which should not be taken as Scripture fulfilling God’s sayings to Paul, And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: (2 Thessalonians 2:11) That they might be damned who believed not the truth….(2Thessalonians 2:12) And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. (Revelation 13:7) (D&C 112:23-26) And the current Mormon prophet is the son of perdition because he has all the saints believing God our Heavenly Father was created by a being greater than Himself but Scripture says there is no greater than our God. (Hebrews 6:13) Therefore, the son of perdition has all the saints breaking the first commandment God gave Moses, Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Does it make sense to reasonable thinking that God would command we have no other gods before Him but really there are? Does He not want us to know this? Why is it a secret? There’s a reason He commanded to have no other gods before Him. Because by believing in false grandpa gods the saints believe our God is an infinitely lesser God putting Lucifer before God. And the moment we put a god before our God, our God becomes an infinitely lesser God. Not only that, our God also becomes a liar. He and the Scriptures says He is the greatest of all. He and the Scriptures says He is the Most High God. He and the Scriptures say He created all things. And in the Scriptures He says over and over there are no gods beside Him. (Isaiah 44:6) (Isaiah 44:8) (Isaiah 45:22) (Hebrews 6:13) Therefore, the saints believing there are gods before Him is the saints believing the son of perdition or the current Mormon prophet over the Scriptures and calling God and the Scriptures a lie. And Isaiah warns, Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! (Isaiah 5:20) The saints call the son of perdition (President Nelson) good and good (Jesus Christ) evil. Because President Nelson says Christ and His Father are liars and fosters the false doctrines.
Peter, John, Paul, Alma, Nephi, Lehi, Jacob and all the canonized prophets would not allow false doctrines from the Adversary but President Nelson does.
President Nelson says Christ did not create all things. (John 1:1-3) Matter/energy cannot be created or destroyed the scientists say therefore the son of perdition or President Nelson says the grandpa gods created these calling Christ and the Scriptures a lie. Well did Abinadi warn the wicked king Noah and his priests, Have ye taught this people that they should observe to do all these things for to keep these commandments? (Mosiah 13:25) I say unto you, Nay; for if ye had, the Lord would not have caused me to come forth and to prophesy evil concerning this people. (Mosiah 13:26) And what is the commandment Abinadi taught that the people do not obey? Thou shalt have no other God before me. (Mosiah 12:35) Know ye not that I speak the truth? Yea, ye know that I speak the truth; and you ought to tremble before God. (Mosiah 12:30) And it is a false doctrine to say God our Heavenly Father has rarely spoke to us in Scripture. (3 Nephi 27:26), (3 Nephi 24:1). (2 Nephi 31:20), (2 Nephi 31:11) (D&C 49:20) Beware of the doctrine of the scribes and Pharisees, which are today’ Church leaders. (Matthew 16:6-12)
As a formerly lifelong active member, I find this folklore and doctrine so fascinating. It used to feel normal and routine, but as time has gone on and I've had less contact, it seems so bizarre and intriguing. It really shows how human the Church is with how it frames and reframes things as they take unexpected turns. I try to maintain an open mind and respect regardless. What an eccentric and lovable people we have. I appreciate your work.
@@ScottJBinteresting take. I joined the church as an adult; and after serving in the temple for a time, I have come to know the church is not by a human, but by God. True, people think this or that and for one reason or another they are wrong. For me, it shows that God's ways are not man's ways, neither are his thoughts our thoughts.
This video shook me to the core! I am a diehard believer that before the Lord can return the New Jerusalem City "Temple" would first need to be built at the Jackson County site. And even though I have read the D&C several dozen times, I some how missed where the Lord stated in section 124:49, I (the Lord) require that of the saints "no more". So that was eye-opening to me. And I have now come to the conclusion that a temple in J.C.M. does not need to be built "before" the Lord returns. I think that's a very important fact to share. Not that a temple will never be built there. But that it is no loner required. And because Zion, The New Jerusalem City is 1,200 miles long and wide (See Rev. 21:10-27) all of Missouri will still be included within those city walls. As well as both the Salt Lake and Navou temples. Who's angel Moroni's face towards each other, and Present Hinckley referred to as the "two temples" at bookends of Zion. Now that is quote to ponder on...
Thank you my brothers for sharing, this tour of the old temple sights in MO. I know that the temples of our Lord Jesus Christ. One day will dot the earth. And Zion will be built every where.
God has already commanded that only one temple be built. It must be built in Jerusalem. The people described in the Book of Mormon operated multiple temples (Alma 16:13; 23:2; 26:29). This violates the dictates of the Old Testament Scriptures on two counts: First, God commanded Israel to build only one temple to reflect that fact that there is only one true God (Deuteronomy 12:5,13-14; 16:5-6). Second, the one legitimate temple was to be built in Jerusalem (Zion), the location designated by God (The Old Testament is filled with explicit references to God choosing Jerusalem [Zion] as the place where "His name would dwell" in the temple: for example, 1 Kings 8:44,48; 11:13,32,36; 14:21; 2 Kings 21:7; 23:27; 1 Chronicles 28:4; 2 Chronicles 6:6; 7:12,16; Psalm 78:68-69; Isaiah 18:7.
@@jlewis8145 I'm sure that Zion is Jerusalem and that is indeed the place that God is talking about. Zec 8:3 Thus saith the LORD; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts the holy mountain. However, there are verses like this... Psa_68:35 O God, thou art terrible out of thy holy places: the God of Israel is he that giveth strength and power unto his people. Blessed be God. Isaiah 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. Amos 7:9 And the high places of Isaac shall be desolate, and the sanctuaries of Israel shall be laid waste; and I will rise against the house of Jeroboam with the sword. And of course now we are the Temple of the Lord. 1Co_3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
The opening statement appears to confuse "Zion" with "New Jerusalem"! Zion is anywhere there is a "Stake" of Zion, or of the Church, while New Jerusalem may be the administrative headquarters and center for temple work.
My take away from those same ideas, and what the scriptures say is a bit different. D&C 124 says that the work will no more be required of "those" sons of men, not "all" sons of men. Elsewhere the Lord is adamant that the appointed place is Jackson County Missouri. The existence of the sovereign nation of Zion, does not eliminate the need for a Capital. Zion, as a religio-political or Theocratic entity will necessarily fill the Earth. I do think we are obligated to build the Temple complex there, but I agree we ought not do so until the Lord reveals His will about how to proceed. It would require the acquisition of the property of the break-offs, and much much more. I'm okay with waiting.
@@lukeslc-xd8ds Yeah. We've got millions of years left, maybe longer. In fact, the calculated heat death of the Universe might be too soon. If you consider God an eternal being then you realize being in a hurry isn't part of His nature.
13:17 what I don't understand about D&C 124:49 is that if the Lord recognizes that they did all they could, why would he not make a way for them to overcome their enemies to accomplish his own revelations?
Thanks, Casey and Scott. This was an excellent video. No doubt the best I've seen to date on this topic. Looking forward to share it with my kids. Love the podcast, too. I guess I'm surprised that members of The Church of Jesus Christ Latter-day Saints (my faith tradition) still seriously and light-heartedly talk about gathering back in Jackson County given that revelation in D&C 124 negating it... I feel like other sources muddy the waters here. Maybe quotes from Brigham Young or because there are multiple Missouri sites with distinct functions and we just kind of roll them together? I'd be fascinated to see a video or listen to a podcast about what Joseph Smith's successors have said about the gathering of Zion in Missouri.
I am curious what Casey thinks about the church's visitor center there in Independence. It was build on the exact spot where one of the temples (or administrative buildings) of the complex was planned for. It was the exact shape and size too. So, we have a potential temple in Independence already as well as a stake center just a few hundred yards down the road.
Casey will have a "Short" coming out about that later this month. Here is the transcript from it. "I'm here in Independence. And on the Temple Lot there's a lot of different buildings. But this is one of the most important. This is the Visotors' Center for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And sometimes there have been rumors that the Visitors' Center is one of the 24 temples the Saints intended to build here. There's no source that actually says that. Just kind of rumors and myth. But what this does do is establish us as being on the Temple Lot and participating in this experience of the Restoration in the place where the Saints planned to build the City of Zion."
@@churchhistorymatterspodcast actually there is a source that says that there is a history of the visitor center being built with exes g measurements to become a temple . I think he needs to dig further into the history of the visitor center . . He needs to dig deeper. It was dedicated for that purpose . If you look at Christian Homestead Jared has a whole video on that and it’s history . All facts . Nothing made up . This seems to be this guys opinion . He did not look up actual facts of its history . He may change his mind .
@@churchhistorymatterspodcast I will look into resources mentioned by a commenter here. If Christian Homestead has resources Casey hasn't considered, it would be wise for him, and the rest of us, to look at them.
No arguments with what was said, however there are plenty of prophecies that indicate that the commandment to go to Missouri will return at some future date once the people have been prepared. D&C 101:17 Zion shall not be moved out of her place, notwithstanding her children are scattered.
The ending of this video is painful to watch and shows that you still have the veil of unbelief over your eyes. You ignore so many other scriptures/revelations providing a concert of clarity that Zion will be in Jackson County. It will not be moved. God will sweep Jackson county clean and he will reign there. We don't have it yet because the people aren't ready for it. Especially because you're sowing such doubt among the ignorant saints. D&C 101:20 D&C 124:45 (go read the institute manual for these scriptures) This is why we cannot rely on the "arm of flesh" ie "scholars".
I believe he is suggesting we need modern revelation from the living prophet for it to happen. The command was removed, and we are waiting on the Lord. “The release from the building of the temple did not, however, cancel the responsibility of building the City and the House of the Lord, at some future time. When the Lord gets ready for it to be accomplished, he will command his people, and the work will be done” (Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie [1955],
Just wondering if you also read D&C 124:49 after you read verse 45 which is the verse quoted in this video. And I don't think your "arm of flesh" comment is justified because these 2 brothers are simply saying that any building of future temples in Missouri will need to come from additional revelation, just like was given to prophets to build the St Louis Missouri and Kansas City Missouri temples. Can these church history sites ever get temples? Sure, but will it be done exactly the way spoken of in the 1800's? Likely not. It's not required at this time (see verse 49). Look to the living prophets for guidance on this and all prophecies of the future. And that's the message of this video.
@@dianetigert1310 "okay, that's it! Let's scrap all the temples we have now because our body is a temple! Don't worry about the ones that are under construction or announced. And while we're at it, let's scrap all the covenants we've made in those temples because they don't matter. #hearhim am I right? All I need is my personal connection with the Lord. No need for covenants and ordinances, prophets and priesthood." "A temple a temple, our body is our temple. We have no need of other temples!" "The Lord can do what he wants whenever he wants to do it. It doesn't matter if he's already given a prophecy and said that his words will ALL be fulfilled. He can just scrap it and give another one, right?" Woe unto you who preach such vain and foolish doctrines.
@@tracymartinez53 Acts 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, 1 Corinthians 7:23 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men. 1 Corinthians 3:16-17......17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
15 Behold, I say unto you, the redemption of Zion must needs come by power; 16 Therefore, I will raise up unto my people a man, who shall lead them like as Moses led the children of Israel. 17 For ye are the children of Israel, and of the seed of Abraham, and ye must needs be led out of bondage by power, and with a stretched-out arm. 18 And as your fathers were led at the first, even so shall the redemption of Zion be. D&C 103:15-18
I'm sorry, brothers, but your interpretation of D&C 124 makes no sense. Jesus was clear that Zion “not be moved out of her place” (D&C 97:19, D&C 101:17). When reading the text of section 124 you need to keep this in mind. Thus, the Lord accepted the offering of the Saints of that time, when "their enemies come upon them and hinder them from performing that work" (D&C 124). He accepted their efforts to do what should be done but were hindered. What about"no more"? Exactly what I said, "no more at the hands of those sons of men" (D&C 124), that is, the saints of that time. Are the saints today being attacked by their enemies and being prohibited from building Zion? Also, the fact that Joseph did not describe (The Articles of Faith) the city where Zion would be built does not mean that the New Jerusalem should not be built in the same place where Jesus had already revealed it. Big hug.
It is just a story is because there is no Mormon consensus on where these historical events took place. In short, in order to believe in the Book of Mormon I need a map of the Book of Mormon and there isn’t one. Anywhere. Most Bibles contain maps illustrating where important biblical events took place. You can visit the ruins of cities described in the Bible. If you get atheist, Christian, and Jewish scholars together, they can roughly agree on where the events allegedly took place and confirm the existence of cities and sites in those places, even if an atheist or a Jew denies certain miracles or historical events took place there. Nothing comparable can be said about the Book of Mormon. Some Mormons say the events of the book take place across North and South America. Others say it took place in Central America, in Panama or Mexico. And still other say the events of the book took place in the Heartland of America. That’s why some Mormons are conducting expeditions in Southeast Iowa to uncover the ancient city of Zaramehla that purportedly had 100,000 people living in it in the fourth century, which would have made it one of the largest cities in ancient North America. But so far, the expeditions haven’t been promising. In fact, according to the National Geographic Society, “Archaeologists and other scholars have long probed the hemisphere’s past, and the society does not know of anything found so far that has substantiated the Book of Mormon.” To put this into perspective, it would be very difficult to defend the Bible if some Christians said the city of Jerusalem was in Israel, others said it was in southern France, and still others said it was in India. A Few False Prophecies of Joseph Smith, Founder of the Mormon sect. *In 1835 Joseph Smith prophesied the Lord’s return within 56 years (History of the Church, Vol. 2, pg. 182). By 1891 this was proven to be a false prophecy. *In 1843 Joseph Smith prophesied that the United States government would be overthrown and wasted within a few years if they refused to redress the wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri (History of the Church, Vol. 5, pg. 394). The United States government has never formally redressed any wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri and the government still stands nearly 170 years later. *In 1832 Joseph Smith prophesied that the present generation of Mormons would not pass away before the temple of the New Jerusalem would be built in Zion, Missouri (Doctrine & Covenants Section 84). The Mormons were forced to flee Missouri and no temple was constructed there in Joseph Smith’s lifetime or within the generation that witnessed this prophecy. *In 1832 Joseph Smith prophesied that the United States civil war would eventually engulf all nations (Doctrine & Covenants Section 87). This prophecy did not come close to being fulfilled. Joseph Smith made many other false prophecies in his lifetime. By the standards of God’s word, he must be labeled a false prophet (Deuteronomy 18:20-22).
What about when the Lord says in D&C 105: 30 "And after these lands are purchased, I will hold the armies of Israel guiltless in taking possession of their own lands, which they have previously purchased with their moneys, and of throwing down the towers of mine enemies that may be upon them, and scattering their watchmen......" or 101:17 which says: "Zion shall not be moved out of her place, notwithstanding her children are scattered". or the verses that refer to the "redemption" of Zion"? I understand that Zion is a concept or a people who keep the law of the celestial kingdom wherever they may be, but it is also a place called the New Jerusalem.
At this time in my life and learning, I know that a temple will exist. I also know that ALL the tribes will help build it, or parts of it. The work to be done is so massive a task, massive enough it will take 5 times longer than the United States of America has been a country. Where the savior will reign, as the headquarters for this part of the world at that time, will be far more massive than imaginable. It will stand for so long and be used so much, that we couldn't build such a thing here and now. Such skills, materials, techniques and architecture have yet to be realized and I don't believe will be until this earth has been transfigured to a terrestrial state. Buckle up! It’s not just the world that’s going to change. It’s also going to be us!
Casey and Scott thanks a lot for exploring Lot! This is helpful spoonful, good gruel, neglected niche! Let’s continue to let _Community of Christ Church_ mow the law there - let them lurk and do the work till ownership shifts to _True and Living Church_ in Lord’s due time sublime!
Here are two sourses from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints stating that the city Zion, the New Jerusalem will be built in Jackson County Missouri. See guide to scriptures: Jackson County, Missouri (USA) See also New Jerusalem The gathering place of the Saints in the last days; that is, the center place where they will establish the New Jerusalem (D&C 57-58; 82; 101:69-71; 105:28). See topics and questions: Zion The word Zion can also refer to specific geographic locations, as follows: The city of Enoch (see Moses 7:18-21). The ancient city of Jerusalem (see 2 Samuel 5:6-7; 1 Kings 8:1; 2 Kings 9:28). The New Jerusalem, which will be built in Jackson County, Missouri (see Doctrine and Covenants 45:66-67; 57:1-3; Articles of Faith 1:117:49 0).
Can you enlighten me about what it says in D&C 84: 4-5 about "this generation " For me it means their generation shall not pass away until the house shall be completed. maybe I don't understand yet. thanks for this video I felt again to restudy the Church History
Sure. It’s just a statement made to be impressive to Jospeh’s followers and gain their trust. He used language that alluded to Matthew 24 to give it a sense of authority. The statement has nothing to do with reality, however, which is of course obvious to us now since we know it never happened.
@@Applest2oApplesStop lying Joseph Smith lied, he said is his generation that was 191 years ago, he lied to the people he's a false prophet , And Matthew 24 has nothing to do with that lying false prophet
Great video. Great information, except for the part at the end when they say that The New Jerusalem might not end up being built in Jackson County Missouri. That’s definitely incorrect. The New Jerusalem will be built in Jackson County and it will be the center stake of Zion and Zion will stretch out from there to all her stakes. Great job! I love hearing about this.
I have to correct you about Harry Truman. He was born in Lamar, MO, 128 miles south of Independence. Bess Truman was born in Independence, and the home they lived in was her parents' house.
Its interesting he said we dont know what will at the end of the video. It is definitely official doctrine that New Jerusalem will be built there in the future.
David O. McKay said, in response to the notion that our work is over in Jackson County and in response to the idea that we shall not return there: "All that I can say about that is that they do not understand the revelations." Sadly, this video has influenced the missionaries at the Independence Visitor Center and they are boldly teaching (at least when I was there a few months ago), that we don't know where the center place of the New Jerusalem will be. They reference this video. More than one of the senior missionaries told me, "It could be anywhere. The Lord has not revealed it yet." It's a shame. The Lord did not reveal this then change his mind, as some would say.
@@LibertarianUSA1982 I am calm. Biden starting WW3, no problem. Everything coming true around Armageddon literally, that's okay. US sending warships to Israel, Israel enacting Article 40 Aleph, no worries.
Can we agree that the New Jerusalem must be built before the second coming? If so, is it a city or a rising nation supplanting a falling one or something in between?
The Truth as the Lord said that Independence Missouri is the center spot. A temple will be built there as directed by the Lord. The temple will be round with a dome on it. Also we do have a temple built just 14 miles from the center spot. It’s the Kansas City Kansas temple. The temple network in Zion has already begun.
No actually the word Lamanites is not a broad word or term for every Native American, the Savior knows where the remnant of the Lamanites are and were at the time, and so did Joseph Smith. Not every darker skin person on the western hemisphere was a Lamanites. Stop trying to change history because you think the the people of the Book of Mormon lived in Centralcentral America. The history of the Book of Mormon happened up in the United States and the remnants of the Lamanites, are exactly where the Savior and Joseph Smith said they were.
One reason to believe it is just a story is because there is no Mormon consensus on where these historical events took place. In short, in order to believe in the Book of Mormon I need a map of the Book of Mormon and there isn’t one. Anywhere. Most Bibles contain maps illustrating where important biblical events took place. You can visit the ruins of cities described in the Bible. If you get atheist, Christian, and Jewish scholars together, they can roughly agree on where the events allegedly took place and confirm the existence of cities and sites in those places, even if an atheist or a Jew denies certain miracles or historical events took place there. Nothing comparable can be said about the Book of Mormon. Some Mormons say the events of the book take place across North and South America. Others say it took place in Central America, in Panama or Mexico. And still other say the events of the book took place in the Heartland of America. That’s why some Mormons are conducting expeditions in Southeast Iowa to uncover the ancient city of Zaramehla that purportedly had 100,000 people living in it in the fourth century, which would have made it one of the largest cities in ancient North America. But so far, the expeditions haven’t been promising. In fact, according to the National Geographic Society, “Archaeologists and other scholars have long probed the hemisphere’s past, and the society does not know of anything found so far that has substantiated the Book of Mormon.” To put this into perspective, it would be very difficult to defend the Bible if some Christians said the city of Jerusalem was in Israel, others said it was in southern France, and still others said it was in India. A Few False Prophecies of Joseph Smith, Founder of the Mormon sect. *In 1835 Joseph Smith prophesied the Lord’s return within 56 years (History of the Church, Vol. 2, pg. 182). By 1891 this was proven to be a false prophecy. *In 1843 Joseph Smith prophesied that the United States government would be overthrown and wasted within a few years if they refused to redress the wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri (History of the Church, Vol. 5, pg. 394). The United States government has never formally redressed any wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri and the government still stands nearly 170 years later. *In 1832 Joseph Smith prophesied that the present generation of Mormons would not pass away before the temple of the New Jerusalem would be built in Zion, Missouri (Doctrine & Covenants Section 84). The Mormons were forced to flee Missouri and no temple was constructed there in Joseph Smith’s lifetime or within the generation that witnessed this prophecy. *In 1832 Joseph Smith prophesied that the United States civil war would eventually engulf all nations (Doctrine & Covenants Section 87). This prophecy did not come close to being fulfilled. Joseph Smith made many other false prophecies in his lifetime. By the standards of God’s word, he must be labeled a false prophet (Deuteronomy 18:20-22).
@@richlopez5896yeah, it seems Joseph Smith said a lot of grand things, but in the end he had to come up with more prophesies to address previous prophesies that didn't happen. He must have been very charismatic and a great orator, but a charlatan nonetheless.
Doctrine & Covenants 101:20 "And, behold, there is none other place appointed than that which I have appointed; neither shall there be any other place appointed than that which I have appointed, for the work of the gathering of my saints" We LOST the privilege to build up ZION and were driven out due to the unworthiness of the saints, and we as a Church are still under this condemnation (Doctrine & Covenants 84: 54-61) There are COUNTLESS quotes from Prophets and Apostles stating that we WILL return to waste places of Jackson County to build the New Jerusalem. As President Nelson has warned us, "Stop increasing your doubts by rehearsing them with other doubters" These two men here doubt the Prophesies and Promises of God and his servants. They are mingling the scriptures with their opinions, Philosophies of man. Let the words of Mormon echo in your ears: “Behold I say unto you, he that denieth these things knoweth not the gospel of Christ; yea, he has not read the scriptures; if so, he does not understand them… …And these things are written that we may rid our garments of the blood of our brethren, who have dwindled in unbelief.”
Zion is a jewish location in Jerusalem,so if you call us non members gentiles,stick to where Jesus said,as D&C.843-4,Joseph said that a TEMPLE WOULD BE ON THAT LOT IN JACKSON COUNTY INSIDE HIS/1GENERATION in new Americas,but*** SORRY is a FAILED PROPHECY,INSPITE OF EXTRAPOLATIONS BY THIS HISTORIAN FOR OTHERS both Far West&Adomonhdi being both 20&30 MILES NORTH OUT OF THE CITY. Deutornomy17 describes what we do with wrong prophets,stop listening to them!😮
Wow. Members really don't study and just they listen people teach them false doctrine. We're going back there. It is the place of the new Jerusalem. READ YOUR SCRIPTURES PEOPLE. AND REFERENCE THE STUDENT MANUALS. Zion or bust
If SLC was made the new gathering center place, how many temples are in UT? The Lord is practical. Another point is that there has been A LOT of preparing for the second coming subject matter from our prophetic leaders but NO talks in conference about Jackson, Co. The church is spending tremendous $$$/resources preparing SLC but almost nothing at Jackson Co. I will follow the apostolic and prophetic leaders of our church.
It will be part of the 2nd Coming - which is multiple visits from the Savior over many years. See April 2021 Liahona - explaining Who has and will see the risen Lord….
@@commoncents5191or this on the Church website: Jackson County, Missouri (USA) See also New Jerusalem The gathering place of the Saints in the last days; that is, the center place where they will establish the New Jerusalem (D&C 57-58; 82; 101:69-71; 105:28).
Revalations 21:16 gives the size of New Jerusalem. Literally much of north america but could figuratively describe all of north, and possibly even south america.
We’re there other group name changes I wasn’t aware of??? Back on the 1990’s the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints changed their name to “Community of Christ”. Why did you use both names while showcasing who built what?
@@Glen.Danielsen Hey Glen, As it turns out I was a bit off on my dates. The Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of later-day Saints broke ground on the their spiral temple in 1990, and completed it in 1994. They changed their name to Community of Christ in 2001. So for me, it doesn't make sense to refer to them as created by differently named groups, when they had the same name when they were built. Otherwise I've really loved the Video's Brother Griffith's put's out. They are great to watch on a Sunday morning while getting ready for church.
The book of Deuteronomy explains how only God knows the future. And how you test a prophet... God said in Deuteronomy 18:20 “‘If any prophet presumptuously speaks a word in my name that I did not command him to speak or speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. 21 However, you may say in your heart: “How will we KNOW THAT Jehovah has not spoken the word?” 22 When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and THE WORD IS NOT FULFILLED or DOES NOT COME TRUE, then JEHOVAH DID NOT SPEAK THAT WORD." That's how the Israelites were to test a prophet. If anything he said did not come true, he's a false prophet and you must put him to death.. You have to remember. The Jews had thousands of zealots who came out of the woods telling everyone "God spoke to me. He said 'give me a tenth of your income to build my church'" And the Israelites put hundreds of them to death! Joseph Smith has an accounting to God one day, and I would not want to be there when it occurs!
A Few False Prophecies of Joseph Smith, Founder of the Mormon Cult *In 1835 Joseph Smith prophesied the Lord’s return within 56 years (History of the Church, Vol. 2, pg. 182). By 1891 this was proven to be a false prophecy. *In 1843 Joseph Smith prophesied that the United States government would be overthrown and wasted within a few years if they refused to redress the wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri (History of the Church, Vol. 5, pg. 394). The United States government has never formally redressed any wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri and the government still stands nearly 170 years later. *In 1832 Joseph Smith prophesied that the present generation of Mormons would not pass away before the temple of the New Jerusalem would be built in Zion, Missouri (Doctrine & Covenants Section 84). The Mormons were forced to flee Missouri and no temple was constructed there in Joseph Smith’s lifetime or within the generation that witnessed this prophecy. *In 1832 Joseph Smith prophesied that the United States civil war would eventually engulf all nations (Doctrine & Covenants Section 87). This prophecy did not come close to being fulfilled. Joseph Smith made many other false prophecies in his lifetime. By the standards of God’s word, he must be labeled a false prophet (Deuteronomy 18:20-22).
The "history" professor doesn't know his history. In the first few seconds... Harry Truman was not born in Independence, MO. Try reading a history book. It was Lamar, MO, about 120 miles due south.
Evidence showing the BIBLE is TRUE and the Book of Mormon is NOT TRUE: No wheat, no goats, no steel found in the Americas, no metal smelting furnaces, no metal armor, no temple like Solomon's as described in 2 Nephi 5:16 have ever been found described in the Book of Mormon. No steel swords, no skeletons of these warriors, no graves, no trace of the "great acity Zarahemla" (it would be impossible for a city the size of Zarahemla 4 Nephi 1:8 to leave no trace), no cattle, no chariot parts, no evidence of the listed Kings in BOM, no Jewish relics or Jewish Temples from supposed Jews, No Jewish dna found in Indians, no metal plates like Nephites supposedly used, no Nephite "reformed Egyptian" writings found, no middle eastern seeds growing, "which were brought from the land of Jerusalem ... and grew exceedingly" 1 Nephi 18:24 There is zero archaeological, anthropological, topological, linguistic, botanical or dna evidence to support the Book of Mormon. It would be IMPOSSIBLE for highly advanced civilizations (Jaredites, Nephites) with MILLIONS of people to have vanished off the face of the earth. The whole face of the land become covered with buildings” yet not one ever located. (Mormon 1:7) “Two million Jaredites slain” (Ether 15:2), 38 cities are catalogued in the BOM, along with iron, brass, breast-plates, shields, and armor. Yet, not one item mentioned in the BOM has ever been discovered in Americas. The BOM speaks of sheep, swine, silk and wool clothing and elephants existing in the Americas when they did not. 1 Ne.13:7; Alma 4:6; Ether 9:17 and 10:24 These were brought to America centuries later by Europeans. CAN WE TRUST OUR HEARTS AS TO THE TRUTH OF THE BOOK OF MORMON since there is no evidence? D&C Section 9:8-9 - tell us that if something is true it will make our "bosom burn" and we will FEEL that it is right. This is NOT how the bible tells us to determine if something is true. Acts 17:11 "they... EXAMINED THE SCRIPTURES EVERY DAY to see if what Paul said was TRUE"; "Do not treat prophecies with contempt but TEST THEM ALL" 1 Thes 5:19-21 Maroni 10:4 says: "he will manifest the truth of it unto you" But: THE BIBLE WARNS YOU about trusting your own heart. Jeremiah 17:9 "the heart is deceitful above all things". Proverbs 28:26 "He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool." God gave you common sense and reason to use, not ignore. The best way to guard yourself against falsehood and false teachers is to examine the TRUTH of the bible. 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV "Study to show thyself approved unto God, ... rightly dividing the word of TRUTH." 1 John 4:1 states "Beloved, BELIEVE NOT EVERY SPIRIT, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because MANY false prophets are gone out into the world." The entire belief system and premise of Mormonism is based on a PROVABLY FALSE claim the Bible was corrupted and "plain and precious parts" were removed by early Christian translators sometime after the apostles died. However, there isn’t ANY specific biblical scripture found ANYWHERE, EVER, WRITTEN BEFORE CHRIST BORN OR AFTER, that directly supports Joseph Smith’s translation of the Bible. An Objective Test of the Bible and Book of Mormon The Claim: In the BOM, the prophet Nephi has a vision the Bible was corrupted after the 12 apostles and after the formation of the “great and abominable church” (1 Nephi 13:26-29). Most Mormons believe this to be the Catholic Church formed in the 4th century. Nephi claims this church was founded by the Devil to lead souls to HELL (1 Nephi 14:3). So let’s objectively examine both the Bible and the BOM to be fair and test for errors. Bible: The Dead Sea Scrolls have been dated to as early as 350 BC. Included is the Great Isaiah Scroll, which is the oldest known copy of the Book of Isaiah dated to 180 BC. Do the ancient scrolls show Smith's "uncorrupted" version? NO they don't! Yet they would if the scripture was later corrupted after the 12 apostles died as Smith said. We also know these old scriptures were not corrupted otherwise, Jesus would have corrected the scripture instead of affirming it was the word of God! Jesus said, “ I told you everything written about me in the Law of Moses, the Books of the Prophets, and in the Psalms had to happen.” (Luke 24:44-46) They are the same today as they were 2,100+ years ago with only minor spelling or punctuation differences. Joseph Smith was wrong. These scrolls could not have been touched by the Catholics, these are Jewish scrolls and the BOM claims that the Jews had the Scriptures in their "purity". 1Nephi 13:25 LDS Apologist Wayne Ham admitted the Isaiah scroll does not support the text in the BOM. Apologist Dr. Sidney B. Sperry, of BYU, admitted that the Dead Sea Scrolls do not help the case for the BOM but uphold the validity of the scripture. BYU ancient scripture Professor Joseph F. McConkie: "Rather than Joseph Smith as Found in Ancient Manuscripts, it ought to be Joseph Smith as Lost in Ancient Manuscripts.” (Religious Studies Center, BYU 1984), 11-31. IS THE GOD OF THE BOOK OF MORMON THE SAME ONE AS IN THE BIBLE? NO! "Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.” (Isaiah 43:10) If Mormonism is true, then God could not make this claim, for he was just a man at one point; nor could he claim that no gods would come after him, for that is the goal of members of the LDS. Like Joseph Smith this was the goal of Satan, to be like God and have worshippers. "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God ... I will be like the Most High”’ (Isaiah 14:12-14) The new testament has not been corrupted either. Take John 1:1 an important verse than Smith changed to make Jesus a created being. A papyri known as the Bodmer Papyri which is 1900 years old of the book of John. (written 150 AD, not long after the apostle John died) John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God." ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΚΑΙ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΗΝ ΠΡΟΣ ΤΟΝ ΘΕΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΘΕΟΣ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ (look up this ancient Greek yourself on google) John 1:1 Joseph Smith translation: "In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God." See the obvious changes where Smith makes Jesus a created person instead of the creator and not one "with" God but "of" God. There are 4,000 Greek manuscripts of the New Testament in whole or in part. Some go back to 350 AD and NONE support Joseph Smith's claims that the bible of today has been corrupted. Fragments exist of papyrus copies of the New Testament dated from 175 AD and show that the new testament we have is reliable and has not been "corrupted".. (The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable? Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1967 (Leicester: Inter-Varsity Press, 1960) pp. 15-17 In the LDS Church’s 147th Conference, Gen Authority Bernard P. Brockbank stated that the Christ followed by the Mormons is NOT THE CHRIST followed by traditional Christianity. (The Ensign, May 1977, p. 26) I post this in love. The manuscript and archeological evidence for the BIBLE is the greatest of ANYTHING in antiquity. I pray that you know the real Jesus, real peace, love and true salvation and not the counterfeit version of Joseph Smith. "Though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Galatians1:8 Matthew 24:24 warns Satan will send false prophets and Satan poses as an angel of light! 2 Corinthians 11:14 There is no way for the Biblical account of Jesus to arrive at the account of the Book of Mormon. I hope to open eyes that God is much greater than the humanoid of Mormonism and just ONE OF AN ENDLESS NUMBER OF GODS. Jesus said all scripture shall not fade away but "many wolves in sheep's clothing" and false prophets will come trying to add to the word. Mathew 7:15 Joseph Smith did just that changing both Jesus and the Father and he taught you can become a God yourself. It pains my heart to see Mormons fall for the lie that Satan first told Adam and Eve that we can be like the "most high". Genesis 3:3-5 "The only men who become Gods, even the sons of Gods are those that enter into polygamy." (Brigham Young) Journal of Discourses 11 p.269 Also, Apostle Orson Pratt, in The Seer, page 172, “…the great Messiah who was the founder of the Christian religion was a Polygamist…the Messiah chose to take upon himself his seed; and by marrying many wives himself, … The son followed the example of his Father"
I wonder why you did not mention that Adam-ondi-Ahman it is the site where Adam and Eve lived after being expelled from the Garden of Eden? I wonder if any Church archeologists have done archeological digs at Adam-ondi-Ahman. Proving that Creation happened here would set archeology, anthropology, geneology, and other sciences on their head!
“And, behold, there is none other place appointed than that which I have appointed; neither shall there be any other place appointed than that which I have appointed, for the work of the gathering of my saints-“ - D&C 101:20. This is the place for the city of Zion. It must be built before the coming of Christ (see Moses 7, and 3 Nephi 20 and 21). But as to the WHEN (besides before Christ’s coming), we know not. We look to/wait for the prophet to reveal that.
I believe that revelation to rebuild will be given, theres a great possibility it will be during the second coming at Adamondiahman to his people to be instructed and to be edified from Micheal our father who will sound his trump to usher in his children.
Revelation in its purest form is the understanding of oneself in relation to God. Everything else is like trying to pick up bread crumbs waiting for it to magically appear. It's like knowing Jesus. If you know Jesus then you live and experience the whole truth just not in complete perfection yet. That is realized in a process. There is a mistake made when someone tries to accumulate different truth and principles as though they are separate one from the other when they are all One in Jesus Christ.
I served my mission in Missouri independence mission in 99-2001.Watching this video brings my memory back when I serve has a missionary, those places it brings me tears in my heart..the saints sacrifice a lot for us 😭😭
Ya my great great grandfather was a pioneer and his wife died on the boat over HERE A NEW LAND
I served in the Missouri Independence mission as well. 2001 - 2003
President Clayton your mission President?
What you need to come to the conclusion.That jesus is king and you don't need freemason
Yes he was my last mission president..@TheCureThatKillz
I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
I'm also a very curious individual so learning about church history is always a fun experience! That being said, we must be careful not to associate opinions as facts.
A Few False Prophecies of Joseph Smith, Founder of the Mormon Cult
*In 1835 Joseph Smith prophesied the Lord’s return within 56 years (History of the Church, Vol. 2, pg. 182). By 1891 this was proven to be a false prophecy.
*In 1843 Joseph Smith prophesied that the United States government would be overthrown and wasted within a few years if they refused to redress the wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri (History of the Church, Vol. 5, pg. 394). The United States government has never formally redressed any wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri and the government still stands nearly 170 years later.
*In 1832 Joseph Smith prophesied that the present generation of Mormons would not pass away before the temple of the New Jerusalem would be built in Zion, Missouri (Doctrine & Covenants Section 84). The Mormons were forced to flee Missouri and no temple was constructed there in Joseph Smith’s lifetime or within the generation that witnessed this prophecy.
*In 1832 Joseph Smith prophesied that the United States civil war would eventually engulf all nations (Doctrine & Covenants Section 87). This prophecy did not come close to being fulfilled.
Joseph Smith made many other false prophecies in his lifetime. By the standards of God’s word, he must be labeled a false prophet (Deuteronomy 18:20-22).
Very true, I've been in the church all my life and it's become easier to see opinions that are not facts, I know it's been a year, are you still curious, I'm not a missionary but I'm sure I can try!
C. Griffiths was my seminary teacher in high school. He is a great guy. Happy to see him doing great things.
For places still so far removed from society, it's amazing how much of history have traversed these locations. Adam, Jaredities, Nephities, Lamanites, pioneers...
True that. It's almost like no unbrainwashed person would believe any of those things happened, much less so in Missouri.
Far removed from society? You can see Kansas City, Missouri from there, and the city of Independence is rather a large suburb. I assure you that Adam, Jaredites, Nephites, Laminites, were never there. Pioneers, yes.
Oh wow we’re getting into heartlander stuff here lol😂.
Thank you for sharing your valuable insights! As Latter-Day Saints, we can all agree that if we are called to be somewhere else, the prophet will let us know. In the meantime, I will focus on developing my personal revelations and contributing to the building of Zion in my current location.
With the Lord's return getting closer, let us all strive to be a light to those around us.
Thank you. Such an important perspective.
Very well said!
Not everyone is going there
@@churchhistorymatterspodcastRevelation 21:1 says the Mormons are lying New Jerusalem is nowhere near America
Mt. Zion is in Jerusalem, Israel. You are welcome.
This video was so profound. It helped me have so much more understanding of why Kirtland, Temple and the surrounding buildings are so important to our church. I really appreciate all the stories, and I felt the spirit so strong.
Considering that there are the quotes from Heber C Kimball, Orson Pratt, George A Smith and other Apostles/Prophets all post D&C 124 that express the need to go back to Jackson County, with some saying specifically to build the temple there, there appears to be more prophetic indication that there will be a return than not. Brigham Young in 1856 made specific mention in regard to going back "...for this people will surely go back to Jackson County. How soon that may be, or when it may be, I do not care; but that is not now the gathering place for this people". Heber C Kimball said in 1857 "We never shall leave these valleys-till we get ready; no, never; no, never. We will live here till we go back to Jackson County, Missouri. I prophesy that, in the name of Israel's God. [The congregation shouted “Amen,” and President B. Young said, “It is true.”]" It is evident that Apostles and Prophets who participated in the events surrounding the revelations given about Jackson County certainly believed in D&C 124 but also believed in a return to Jackson County to build a temple and Zion there. In D&C 136:18 the Lord says, "Zion shall be redeemed in mine own due time." implying that there was some chastening going on that section 124 initiated but that the statement that “Zion shall not be moved out of her place, notwithstanding her children are scattered,” is still the plan for the center place of Zion, in Jackson County, Missouri, which will be redeemed and sanctified before the millennium.
Pres Nelson in 1974 (as general Sunday school president) also made a specific statement that the Lord would come to Jackson County before His millennial reign. This could be in reference to Him coming to His temple in the New Jerusalem and to Adam-ondi-Ahman. The Sunday School manuals do reference that "The center place of Zion, Jackson County, Missouri, will be redeemed and sanctified." and "These events are to prepare for the great millennial era and its attendant blessings."@@nancid5265
You're totally right. This tradition continued on for several generations. The key thing pointed out in the video is that 1) the latest word from the Lord himself is that he requires the work of building up Jackson County and the temple there is required at their hands "no more" (D&C 124:49-51), and 2) that after D&C 124 was received, Joseph Smith himself didn't expect that the New Jerusalem temple would be build there. Joseph took the Lord at his word. Other Church leaders apparently struggled to let go of this idea. Today you'll notice no Church leaders hold on to this idea or teach it. Elder Holland, for instance, explained in 2012, taught, "Zion. The promised land. The New Jerusalem. Where is it? Well, we’re not sure, but we’ll find it.... In these last days, in this our dispensation, we would become mature enough … to plant our feet and our families and our foundations in every nation, kindred, tongue, and people permanently. Zion would be everywhere-wherever the Church is. And with that change-one of the mighty changes of the last days-we no longer think of Zion as where we are going to live; we think of it as how we are going to live.” (CES Devotional, 9 September 2012). That's quite different from what Brigham Young taught, isn't it? (But quite similar to Joseph Smith's post-D&C 124 thoughts).
What is the method then to identify a prophet's statement as a "tradition" rather than a prophetic witness in support of what the Lord said must come to pass? Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Nearly 100 years have passed since the site of Zion was dedicated and the spot for the temple was chosen, and some of the members of the Church seem to be fearful lest the word of the Lord shall fail. Others have tried to convince themselves that the original plan has been changed and that the Lord does not require at our hands this mighty work which has been predicted by the prophets of ancient times. We have not been released from this responsibility, nor shall we be. The word of the Lord will not fail.
If we look back and examine his word carefully, we will discover that nothing has failed of all that he has predicted, neither shall one jot or tittle pass away unfulfilled. It is true that the Lord commanded the saints to build to his name a temple in Zion. This they attempted to do, but were prevented by their enemies, so the Lord did not require the work at their hands at that time. The release from the building of the temple did not, however, cancel the responsibility of building the City and the House of the Lord, at some future time. When the Lord gets ready for it to be accomplished, he will command his people, and the work will be done." (Doctrines of Salvation, 3 vols., edited by Bruce R. McConkie)
@@ReadyNeck That's a good quote. What it tells me is that Joseph Fielding Smith was convinced that in D&C 124:49-51 the Lord was simply exempting that immediate generation from the task of building up Jackson County and its Temple "at that time." While I respect that view, we need to acknowledge that the Lord didn't actually say "at that time," Joseph Fielding Smith did. For me, both the Lord's exact language here of "it behooveth me to require that work no more at the hands of those sons of men," as well as Joseph Smith's own post-D&C 124 statements regarding Zion suggest that we no longer need to hold to the "Jackson County = the New Jerusalem" idea. Joseph Smith didn't seem to hold to that view any more. He was convinced the New Jerusalem would still be built up upon the American continent (A of F 1:10), but he let go of the idea of Jackson County being the ground zero. Joseph Fielding Smith clearly views the evidence differently and, again, I respect that.
@@scott.woodward If you consider the perspective of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Heber C Kimball, Orson Pratt and others of their day, they understood these revelations in some context differently than how one today might view them looking back on them in retrospect. They experienced them sequentially, as answers to the questions of their day and not in hindsight looking at them as a whole collectively. Consider that the Lord first told them of Zion in D&C 28:9 and said: "And now, behold, I say unto you that it is not revealed, and no man knoweth where the city Zion shall be built, BUT IT SHALL BE GIVEN hereafter. Behold, I say unto you that it shall be on the borders by the Lamanites." This revelation came first, prior to and independent of any mention of Jackson County and the center place and the "works" that the saints would be called to perform by their hands and without the thought that their efforts would ultimately fall short. In other words, the Lord told them the location of Zion, all be it a very general one, but said specifically that the location "shall be given" later which indicates a specific place not something that would be adjusted later. It was almost a year later when the Lord fulfilled that first revelation and revealed specifically where the center place would be as stated in D&C 57 at which point, they were told to start buying up tracks of land and to build a temple. The location of Zion was fixed in their minds as a revealed fact confirming the prior revelation of the Lord that the location would be revealed. It was a specific location where all the prophetic accounts that spoke of Zion and the New Jerusalem would be accomplished. If the New Jerusalem could be somewhere else in America, or anyplace else for that matter why send the saints to Jackson County if not for the specific reason that it had been designated to be there, prophesied of being there, seen in dreams and visions of being there, and foretold about being there for thousands of years? And, they also had received D&C 101:17 where the Lord says that “Zion shall not be moved out of her place” further cementing the understanding and context of the Lords will even before being given D&C 124. The scriptures are the best commentary on the scriptures and this location is central to so much that has been recorded in them. If Joseph no longer held the view about Jackson County, he certainly didn't communicate that to those around him as the saints were very much impressed of the need to redeem Zion at some future point either during or also after his life. It was still on their minds as they were forced out of Nauvoo and the Lord revealed to Brigham Young in D&C 136:17,18 "Go thy way and do as I have told you, and fear not thine enemies; for they shall not have power to stop my work. Zion shall be redeemed in mine own due time." which is the same thing the Lord told Joseph Smith in D&C 100:13 "And now I give unto you a word concerning Zion. Zion shall be redeemed, although she is chastened for a little season." The Lord then is leaving the door open to redeem Zion just not "at that time". It was mentioned in the video that Joseph Smith didn't record any further comment for returning to Jackson County for the last three years of his life but neither did he say anything stating otherwise which neither supports or defends either of our arguments. Neither does the Lord say in D&C 124 that Zion/New Jerusalem has been moved to some new place in America, only that "it behooveth me to require that work no more at the hands...". We do however, have a long "tradition" of Apostles and Prophets since the time of Joseph that do witness of one day returning to redeem Zion and build a temple in Jackson County Missouri. This isn't then a simple traditional view that will one day go away but a desire of the Lord's servants to testify of the future fulfillment of the prophecies the Lord has given and which have been witnessed to from Brigham Young to Russell M Nelson.
Thank you for preparing and sharing this. I so love gaining new insights and learning more deeply from the scriptures.
This is so great! Love how well you guys explain things. Also been listening to your History Matters podcast so it's fun to put some faces to the voices!!
Satan thinks they're great also.
Its crazy watching this. I grew up there as a member (still am) and i went to these places all the time, and never really knew their importance, just that i loved it there.
Excellent video. My son now lives a couple miles north of Adam-Ondi-Ahman. He's a bit knowledgeable on Church history, and obtained their home there and acreage just east of the Far West site you visited under amazing, even miraculous circumstances. He's also one of the few people who have been allowed to go into the closed off area at Adam-Ondi-Ahman.
I truly appreciate this snippet of past present and future for our explanation. Ace. I loved and learned from this.. 🇬🇧💛 10:33
I can't wait for the building up of Missouri and coming forward to future temples. I am excited. I would like to visit these places. I would like to go to Spring Hill.
So much for my wishful plans to move to Jackson County, Missouri! I'm home from church because I'm sick and I'm so glad that while listening to a message from General Conference, this video came up on my feed. It was so informative. Thank you Brother Griffiths and Brother Woodward!
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President Nelson says it will be in Jackson county. Your wishes will come true. These guys haven’t done their research.
So happy to help!
@@1anniehiatt Their research is legit. They are church historians after all. They quoted scriptures referring to the land not needing to be used at the moment. As far as it being used again to build, it would require further revelation. We simply don't know, but a lot of members seem to assume it will be used again. The only confirmed thing we do know is that Adam-ondi-Ahman will be the gathering place of Israel.
There are many books written by current and deceased apostles clearly teaching that New Jerusalem will 100% be built there in the future. Elder Lund talks about it extensively in his book published in 2021. Its a confirmed part of the last days events leading to the Saviors return.
Interesting video however just because the Lord did not require the Saints of that day any longer to build the New Jerusalem temple at that time does not mean it will not be required of a future generation. There are many leaders of the church throughout church history after the time of Joseph Smith state that the Temple will be built there someday. Brigham Young is quoted as saying the center stake of Zion is Jackson County, Missouri.I think that is just the personal opinion of that man you interviewed. Time will tell what is true.
It's an interesting question. I think Scott was good about explaining that at present we have no commandment to build in Jackson county but that the Lord could still require it at some future date.
I think two things can be true at the same time!! Yes, we do not have a command from the Lord to build there now. Which is a very good reason why those locations are not built now. However, it is clear through the testimony of the Prophets that we will infact build the city of New Jerusalem and the Temples there. And may I just say we are not far from that time!
You leave out a lot of scriptures.
@@flossietube2065 “And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband… And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.” Revelation 21
@tatiakey2735
Okay, so I read that chapter and it's not talking about the second coming. Where Zion from above meets Zion from below. That chapter is referring to the end of the millennium! A time when the Earth will receive her Celestrial glory. In that time there will be no need for Temples as we know them today. The work for the dead will have been completed by then.
Thanks for making a concise video with these scriptures and quotes.
I felt a warm fuzzy feeling while watching this, so I know it’s all true.
I had this very thought at a visit to the temple a few months back. Thank you
I felt some exhilaration listening to this! Very good.
Served in the Missouri Independence Mission from 2011 to 2013. This video brought back a lot of fond memories.
Love this, almost has a myth debunked feeling, thank you for sharing your knowledge with us,
Also love your site visits as for some of us thats the only way we can reach those places.
We toured this summer! Thank you for your insights!
"Our duty is to raise up a generation of men and women worthy to receive the coming of the Lord. For he will come - 👉to Jackson County, Missouri, 👈to be sustained as King of Kings - and he will come also to Israel to be hailed as Lord of Lords. Then his millennial reign will be ushered in."
Four lessons from one life time
President Nelson. Elder at the time
@@LetZionRise Take it easy! We are all just trying to figure out and understand these things...no one knows everything. Let's all appreciate each other's efforts.
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Yes he he said Jackson County Missouri .
This quote is from a talk given at BYU (not General Conference) in 1974 when he was General Sunday School President. Has he or any of the apostles said anything more recent on Jackson County? Does this one reference constitute absolute truth or opinion of one man at one time?
Elder Christofferson taught: “It should be remembered that not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. It is commonly understood in the Church that a statement made by one leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, not meant to be official or binding for the whole Church.”
In the following conference, Elder Andersen taught this principle: “The doctrine is taught by all 15 members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve. It is not hidden in an obscure paragraph of one talk.”
Both of these were then quoted by President Oaks in 2019.
Let's not assume that everything that Russell M. Nelson said in his life is binding on the Lord or His Gospel and Church.
@@urubu715 Sounds good
#1 Needs to be one of the 15 Prophets Seers and Revelators at the time of said quote
#2 Talks of Returning to redeem New Jerusalem/ Mount Zion/Jackson County Mo. post settled in Utah
#3 Let's see if It is a concert of clarity as Elder Bednar had said or a one off of personal opinion from President Nelson.
#4 @urubu715 You fit all this criteria but
for
#1 we are not going back definitively
To redeem Zion/ Jackson County/ New Jerusalem
Or #2 We just simple are left in the Dark and we don't know or are unsure that this is the destiny of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
Our duty today is to try to build Zion where we live 😊
...but I live in "Zion".
So the church is Zionist, isn't it? I remember in 2018 they were crazy about gathering Israel.... Now I hear building Zion.... When I ask questions at the church, nobody knows.... But asking for 💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰 giving my hardworking 💰 and not having part in it, sounds like a scam for me.
Where's the customer service? 😮
Stakes of Zion are where we live, yes. The scriptures discussed here refer to the *center place* of Zion and where it is to be build.
@@archangel_one I no longer do. "Zion" is 3k for a 2 bedroom basement apartment. It is only for the very rich.
Thank you for the clarification!
Thank you so much for the clarity of this subject. There are so many people with so many opinions on this subject.
Your right. And this is THEIR opinion. 😊
Just because it’s shot like a documentary, doesn’t mean it’s true. They’ve conveniently left out other scripture and prophetic statements that doesn’t support their opinion. They are reading scriptures through a myopic lens and not within the revealed “big picture” context. In summary, they are interpreting scripture and history the way their seminary teachers told them not to.
@@bemorebetter5343I agree . Itisopinions
Thank you for watching @lmfarms4611! They put a lot of time studying these topics. We're blessed to have these two BYU Religoius professors helping us out!
Opinions = Philosophies of man. The Zion or Bust channel has put together SO much on this topic that is actually based on doctrine.
@@churchhistorymatterspodcast they do know a lot . And are appreciated . But they do have opinions on some things . What he says here is not the complete whole truth . He hadn’t searched it out enough . There is so much information on this subject and none of it is opinions . They’d is a lot I mean a whole lot from prophets and apostles on this subject and he is telling incorrect things on this subject . He needs to dig deeper on this . Jared has a whole play list on this s Jr t on Christian homestead . He really searched things out . That is why a lot of people like his channel . He backs up every word he says through prophets and apostles . No his words . It is incredible how he can find what prophets have said on so many subjects . Especially on this . There is just so much history on it . A lot of true information . Not myths .
thank you
Wow, the spirit really testified of the truthfulness of your understanding of these doctrines. Thank you so much!
I’m a Mormon.
We should believe the Scriptures, not man.
And the Scriptures testify the Mormon Church is the only true Church of Jesus Christ on Earth.
But if something is taught that can't be verified by Scripture, think twice about believing it.
I understand why so many people are leaving the church.
Many false doctrines exist causing countless TH-cam videos mocking Mormonism.
False doctrines like grandpa gods, (God the Father has a father), Mormons becoming gods of their own planets, Adam helped create the earth, Christ and Satan are brothers, God the Father has rarely spoken in Scripture, the African Americans were bad in the pre-existence; all of which no Scripture verifies.
And each Sunday the Sacrament is tainted because only Elders and Priests can administer but the Deacons prepare/administer, and the Teachers pass/administer the Sacrament. (D&C 20:57)
And the Lord says, He’s bound when we do what He says but if not there is no promise. (D&C 82:10)
…that the scriptures might be fulfilled; for ye shall do according to that which is written. (D&C 24:14)
And we wonder why there’s depression, mental illness and other unspeakable events among us?
And many are leaving the church because if you don't fit the mold the church leaders sculpture you're not a part of the click.
Mormons believe the church leaders over Scripture.
The zealous believers have the church leaders in mind with everything thing they think say and feel testifying to impress others how much they believe the current church leaders are God-inspired.
But the Scriptures reveal the church leaders are the problem with the entire Planet.
For example,
In 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 we are informed of a person revealed as the son of perdition.
This son of perdition sits in the temple of God making himself God or above all that is called God.
Therefore, if the Mormon Church is the only true church, then the only person 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 could be talking about is the current Mormon prophet.
For what other church is the one and only true Church with temples?
And Joseph Smith taught a son of perdition can only be a church member holding all the rites of God's priesthood and using the priesthood against God as did Judas.
Therefore, who else other than the current Mormon prophet could the apostle Paul be speaking of?
It's as plain as the nose on a face.
And even God in the Doctrine and Covenants tells us about the current church leaders and how displeased He is saying the end of this world will begin among them. (D&C 112:23-26)
Joseph Smith taught the false doctrine of grandpa gods (God the Father has a father) not over the pulpit as a prophet but as a sermon at a funeral, which should not be taken as Scripture fulfilling God’s sayings to Paul, And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: (2 Thessalonians 2:11)
That they might be damned who believed not the truth….(2Thessalonians 2:12)
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. (Revelation 13:7) (D&C 112:23-26)
And the current Mormon prophet is the son of perdition because he has all the saints believing God our Heavenly Father was created by a being greater than Himself but Scripture says there is no greater than our God. (Hebrews 6:13)
Therefore, the son of perdition has all the saints breaking the first commandment God gave Moses,
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Does it make sense to reasonable thinking that God would command we have no other gods before Him but really there are?
Does He not want us to know this?
Why is it a secret?
There’s a reason He commanded to have no other gods before Him.
Because by believing in false grandpa gods the saints believe our God is an infinitely lesser God putting Lucifer before God.
And the moment we put a god before our God, our God becomes an infinitely lesser God.
Not only that, our God also becomes a liar.
He and the Scriptures says He is the greatest of all.
He and the Scriptures says He is the Most High God.
He and the Scriptures say He created all things.
And in the Scriptures He says over and over there are no gods beside Him. (Isaiah 44:6) (Isaiah 44:8) (Isaiah 45:22) (Hebrews 6:13)
Therefore, the saints believing there are gods before Him is the saints believing the son of perdition or the current Mormon prophet over the Scriptures and calling God and the Scriptures a lie.
And Isaiah warns,
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! (Isaiah 5:20)
The saints call the son of perdition (President Nelson) good and good (Jesus Christ) evil.
Because President Nelson says Christ and His Father are liars and fosters the false doctrines.
Peter, John, Paul, Alma, Nephi, Lehi, Jacob and all the canonized prophets would not allow false doctrines from the Adversary but President Nelson does.
President Nelson says Christ did not create all things. (John 1:1-3)
Matter/energy cannot be created or destroyed the scientists say therefore the son of perdition or President Nelson says the grandpa gods created these calling Christ and the Scriptures a lie.
Well did Abinadi warn the wicked king Noah and his priests,
Have ye taught this people that they should observe to do all these things for to keep these commandments? (Mosiah 13:25)
I say unto you, Nay; for if ye had, the Lord would not have caused me to come forth and to prophesy evil concerning this people. (Mosiah 13:26)
And what is the commandment Abinadi taught that the people do not obey?
Thou shalt have no other God before me. (Mosiah 12:35)
Know ye not that I speak the truth? Yea, ye know that I speak the truth; and you ought to tremble before God. (Mosiah 12:30)
And it is a false doctrine to say God our Heavenly Father has rarely spoke to us in Scripture.
(3 Nephi 27:26), (3 Nephi 24:1). (2 Nephi 31:20), (2 Nephi 31:11) (D&C 49:20)
Beware of the doctrine of the scribes and Pharisees, which are today’ Church leaders. (Matthew 16:6-12)
I had the privilege of being at the places about 2 years ago, I wish I could go again
Thanks for the video. Love learning ❤
I served my mission at the visitor’s center there and in the Independence and Liberty areas from 2013-2015 😊
It's pretty there.
I have been preaching this for some time. Thank you for this wonderful presentation. You stated it better than I did or could.
As a formerly lifelong active member, I find this folklore and doctrine so fascinating. It used to feel normal and routine, but as time has gone on and I've had less contact, it seems so bizarre and intriguing. It really shows how human the Church is with how it frames and reframes things as they take unexpected turns. I try to maintain an open mind and respect regardless. What an eccentric and lovable people we have. I appreciate your work.
yes bizarre and intriguing for sure. Every culture has folklore, but the thing is not to think your folklore is real and all the others aren't.
@@lukegraven7839 Agreed
When I click the thumbs down does it show up in your notifications.
Smith mocked God and now mocks true Christian's that God foretold would happen that Mormon's fulfill. Sad to see this foretold evil brings you joy.
@@ScottJBinteresting take. I joined the church as an adult; and after serving in the temple for a time, I have come to know the church is not by a human, but by God. True, people think this or that and for one reason or another they are wrong. For me, it shows that God's ways are not man's ways, neither are his thoughts our thoughts.
This is great! Loved learning.
Great job on the video.
Thank you
Omg i felt the spirit when he said this is the lot
This video shook me to the core! I am a diehard believer that before the Lord can return the New Jerusalem City "Temple" would first need to be built at the Jackson County site. And even though I have read the D&C several dozen times, I some how missed where the Lord stated in section 124:49, I (the Lord) require that of the saints "no more". So that was eye-opening to me. And I have now come to the conclusion that a temple in J.C.M. does not need to be built "before" the Lord returns. I think that's a very important fact to share. Not that a temple will never be built there. But that it is no loner required. And because Zion, The New Jerusalem City is 1,200 miles long and wide (See Rev. 21:10-27) all of Missouri will still be included within those city walls. As well as both the Salt Lake and Navou temples. Who's angel Moroni's face towards each other, and Present Hinckley referred to as the "two temples" at bookends of Zion. Now that is quote to ponder on...
Thank you my brothers for sharing, this tour of the old temple sights in MO. I know that the temples of our Lord Jesus Christ. One day will dot the earth. And Zion will be built every where.
God has already commanded that only one temple be built.
It must be built in Jerusalem.
The people described in the Book of Mormon operated multiple temples (Alma 16:13; 23:2; 26:29). This violates the dictates of the Old Testament Scriptures on two counts:
First, God commanded Israel to build only one temple to reflect that fact that there is only one true God (Deuteronomy 12:5,13-14; 16:5-6).
Second, the one legitimate temple was to be built in Jerusalem (Zion), the location designated by God (The Old Testament is filled with explicit references to God choosing Jerusalem [Zion] as the place where "His name would dwell" in the temple:
for example, 1 Kings 8:44,48; 11:13,32,36; 14:21; 2 Kings 21:7; 23:27; 1 Chronicles 28:4; 2 Chronicles 6:6; 7:12,16; Psalm 78:68-69; Isaiah 18:7.
@@jlewis8145 I'm sure that Zion is Jerusalem and that is indeed the place that God is talking about.
Zec 8:3 Thus saith the LORD; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts the holy mountain.
However, there are verses like this...
Psa_68:35 O God, thou art terrible out of thy holy places: the God of Israel is he that giveth strength and power unto his people. Blessed be God.
Isaiah 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
Amos 7:9 And the high places of Isaac shall be desolate, and the sanctuaries of Israel shall be laid waste; and I will rise against the house of Jeroboam with the sword.
And of course now we are the Temple of the Lord.
1Co_3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
The opening statement appears to confuse "Zion" with "New Jerusalem"! Zion is anywhere there is a "Stake" of Zion, or of the Church, while New Jerusalem may be the administrative headquarters and center for temple work.
My take away from those same ideas, and what the scriptures say is a bit different. D&C 124 says that the work will no more be required of "those" sons of men, not "all" sons of men. Elsewhere the Lord is adamant that the appointed place is Jackson County Missouri. The existence of the sovereign nation of Zion, does not eliminate the need for a Capital. Zion, as a religio-political or Theocratic entity will necessarily fill the Earth. I do think we are obligated to build the Temple complex there, but I agree we ought not do so until the Lord reveals His will about how to proceed. It would require the acquisition of the property of the break-offs, and much much more. I'm okay with waiting.
I personally don't believe all this will take place for MANY years yet.
@@lukeslc-xd8ds Yeah. We've got millions of years left, maybe longer. In fact, the calculated heat death of the Universe might be too soon. If you consider God an eternal being then you realize being in a hurry isn't part of His nature.
Very good and accurate! Thank you
Scott Woodward was my seminary teacher 😂😂
Very interesting. Thank you.
Have @Wonderful 248 ! / / thanks
Woahhhh I took one of your classes at BYU in 2019 I believe. Awesome video!
❤❤❤ ZION ❤❤❤
I would like to visit that place is it posible for an average person like a tourist for example
There's not much to see, but visitors come from all over.
Yes we invite visitors
13:17 what I don't understand about D&C 124:49 is that if the Lord recognizes that they did all they could, why would he not make a way for them to overcome their enemies to accomplish his own revelations?
Thank you
Thanks, Casey and Scott. This was an excellent video. No doubt the best I've seen to date on this topic. Looking forward to share it with my kids. Love the podcast, too.
I guess I'm surprised that members of The Church of Jesus Christ Latter-day Saints (my faith tradition) still seriously and light-heartedly talk about gathering back in Jackson County given that revelation in D&C 124 negating it... I feel like other sources muddy the waters here. Maybe quotes from Brigham Young or because there are multiple Missouri sites with distinct functions and we just kind of roll them together? I'd be fascinated to see a video or listen to a podcast about what Joseph Smith's successors have said about the gathering of Zion in Missouri.
WRONG!!! It’s always been in the Rocky Mountains - see D&C 133!
Learn what the Lord says vs what man try’s to teach!
@@robertstanley3832 verse 31, the everlasting hills. The same verbiage as Joseph blessed Joseph with in the Bible.
Good Job!
I am curious what Casey thinks about the church's visitor center there in Independence. It was build on the exact spot where one of the temples (or administrative buildings) of the complex was planned for. It was the exact shape and size too.
So, we have a potential temple in Independence already as well as a stake center just a few hundred yards down the road.
Yes we do. That is so true
Casey will have a "Short" coming out about that later this month. Here is the transcript from it.
"I'm here in Independence. And on the Temple Lot there's a lot of different buildings. But this is one of the most important. This is the Visotors' Center for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And sometimes there have been rumors that the Visitors' Center is one of the 24 temples the Saints intended to build here. There's no source that actually says that. Just kind of rumors and myth. But what this does do is establish us as being on the Temple Lot and participating in this experience of the Restoration in the place where the Saints planned to build the City of Zion."
@@churchhistorymatterspodcast actually there is a source that says that there is a history of the visitor center being built with exes g measurements to become a temple . I think he needs to dig further into the history of the visitor center . . He needs to dig deeper. It was dedicated for that purpose . If you look at Christian Homestead Jared has a whole video on that and it’s history . All facts . Nothing made up . This seems to be this guys opinion . He did not look up actual facts of its history . He may change his mind .
@@churchhistorymatterspodcast not rumors and myths . Facts . Look up the visitors center history . Take sometime to do if .
@@churchhistorymatterspodcast I will look into resources mentioned by a commenter here. If Christian Homestead has resources Casey hasn't considered, it would be wise for him, and the rest of us, to look at them.
No arguments with what was said, however there are plenty of prophecies that indicate that the commandment to go to Missouri will return at some future date once the people have been prepared. D&C 101:17 Zion shall not be moved out of her place, notwithstanding her children are scattered.
The ending of this video is painful to watch and shows that you still have the veil of unbelief over your eyes.
You ignore so many other scriptures/revelations providing a concert of clarity that Zion will be in Jackson County. It will not be moved. God will sweep Jackson county clean and he will reign there.
We don't have it yet because the people aren't ready for it. Especially because you're sowing such doubt among the ignorant saints.
D&C 101:20
D&C 124:45 (go read the institute manual for these scriptures)
This is why we cannot rely on the "arm of flesh" ie "scholars".
I believe he is suggesting we need modern revelation from the living prophet for it to happen. The command was removed, and we are waiting on the Lord.
“The release from the building of the temple did not, however, cancel the responsibility of building the City and the House of the Lord, at some future time. When the Lord gets ready for it to be accomplished, he will command his people, and the work will be done” (Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie [1955],
Just wondering if you also read D&C 124:49 after you read verse 45 which is the verse quoted in this video.
And I don't think your "arm of flesh" comment is justified because these 2 brothers are simply saying that any building of future temples in Missouri will need to come from additional revelation, just like was given to prophets to build the St Louis Missouri and Kansas City Missouri temples.
Can these church history sites ever get temples? Sure, but will it be done exactly the way spoken of in the 1800's? Likely not. It's not required at this time (see verse 49).
Look to the living prophets for guidance on this and all prophecies of the future. And that's the message of this video.
Do you ever read the bible? 1 Corinthians 3:16?
@@dianetigert1310
"okay, that's it! Let's scrap all the temples we have now because our body is a temple! Don't worry about the ones that are under construction or announced. And while we're at it, let's scrap all the covenants we've made in those temples because they don't matter. #hearhim am I right? All I need is my personal connection with the Lord. No need for covenants and ordinances, prophets and priesthood."
"A temple a temple, our body is our temple. We have no need of other temples!"
"The Lord can do what he wants whenever he wants to do it. It doesn't matter if he's already given a prophecy and said that his words will ALL be fulfilled. He can just scrap it and give another one, right?"
Woe unto you who preach such vain and foolish doctrines.
@@tracymartinez53
Acts 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
1 Corinthians 7:23 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.
1 Corinthians 3:16-17......17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
15 Behold, I say unto you, the redemption of Zion must needs come by power;
16 Therefore, I will raise up unto my people a man, who shall lead them like as Moses led the children of Israel.
17 For ye are the children of Israel, and of the seed of Abraham, and ye must needs be led out of bondage by power, and with a stretched-out arm.
18 And as your fathers were led at the first, even so shall the redemption of Zion be.
D&C 103:15-18
I'm sorry, brothers, but your interpretation of D&C 124 makes no sense. Jesus was clear that Zion “not be moved out of her place” (D&C 97:19, D&C 101:17). When reading the text of section 124 you need to keep this in mind. Thus, the Lord accepted the offering of the Saints of that time, when "their enemies come upon them and hinder them from performing that work" (D&C 124). He accepted their efforts to do what should be done but were hindered. What about"no more"? Exactly what I said, "no more at the hands of those sons of men" (D&C 124), that is, the saints of that time.
Are the saints today being attacked by their enemies and being prohibited from building Zion?
Also, the fact that Joseph did not describe (The Articles of Faith) the city where Zion would be built does not mean that the New Jerusalem should not be built in the same place where Jesus had already revealed it.
Big hug.
It is just a story is because there is no Mormon consensus on where these historical events took place. In short, in order to believe in the Book of Mormon I need a map of the Book of Mormon and there isn’t one. Anywhere.
Most Bibles contain maps illustrating where important biblical events took place. You can visit the ruins of cities described in the Bible. If you get atheist, Christian, and Jewish scholars together, they can roughly agree on where the events allegedly took place and confirm the existence of cities and sites in those places, even if an atheist or a Jew denies certain miracles or historical events took place there.
Nothing comparable can be said about the Book of Mormon.
Some Mormons say the events of the book take place across North and South America. Others say it took place in Central America, in Panama or Mexico. And still other say the events of the book took place in the Heartland of America. That’s why some Mormons are conducting expeditions in Southeast Iowa to uncover the ancient city of Zaramehla that purportedly had 100,000 people living in it in the fourth century, which would have made it one of the largest cities in ancient North America. But so far, the expeditions haven’t been promising. In fact, according to the National Geographic Society, “Archaeologists and other scholars have long probed the hemisphere’s past, and the society does not know of anything found so far that has substantiated the Book of Mormon.”
To put this into perspective, it would be very difficult to defend the Bible if some Christians said the city of Jerusalem was in Israel, others said it was in southern France, and still others said it was in India.
A Few False Prophecies of Joseph Smith, Founder of the Mormon sect.
*In 1835 Joseph Smith prophesied the Lord’s return within 56 years (History of the Church, Vol. 2, pg. 182). By 1891 this was proven to be a false prophecy.
*In 1843 Joseph Smith prophesied that the United States government would be overthrown and wasted within a few years if they refused to redress the wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri (History of the Church, Vol. 5, pg. 394). The United States government has never formally redressed any wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri and the government still stands nearly 170 years later.
*In 1832 Joseph Smith prophesied that the present generation of Mormons would not pass away before the temple of the New Jerusalem would be built in Zion, Missouri (Doctrine & Covenants Section 84). The Mormons were forced to flee Missouri and no temple was constructed there in Joseph Smith’s lifetime or within the generation that witnessed this prophecy.
*In 1832 Joseph Smith prophesied that the United States civil war would eventually engulf all nations (Doctrine & Covenants Section 87). This prophecy did not come close to being fulfilled.
Joseph Smith made many other false prophecies in his lifetime. By the standards of God’s word, he must be labeled a false prophet (Deuteronomy 18:20-22).
What about when the Lord says in D&C 105: 30 "And after these lands are purchased, I will hold the armies of Israel guiltless in taking possession of their own lands, which they have previously purchased with their moneys, and of throwing down the towers of mine enemies that may be upon them, and scattering their watchmen......" or 101:17 which says: "Zion shall not be moved out of her place, notwithstanding her children are scattered". or the verses that refer to the "redemption" of Zion"? I understand that Zion is a concept or a people who keep the law of the celestial kingdom wherever they may be, but it is also a place called the New Jerusalem.
It will happen if the peaceful way is rejected by the wicked gentiles
Are you interested in a complication of all last days prophecy from church leaders and Christ about the New Jerusalem? Its very amazing!
I help build LDS Temples. Could you do a video of the history of the baptismal fonts
I was in the church archives & came across a photo from 1910’s of Adam-Ohndi-Aman that said “future site of mega temple”
At this time in my life and learning, I know that a temple will exist. I also know that ALL the tribes will help build it, or parts of it. The work to be done is so massive a task, massive enough it will take 5 times longer than the United States of America has been a country. Where the savior will reign, as the headquarters for this part of the world at that time, will be far more massive than imaginable. It will stand for so long and be used so much, that we couldn't build such a thing here and now.
Such skills, materials, techniques and architecture have yet to be realized and I don't believe will be until this earth has been transfigured to a terrestrial state.
Buckle up! It’s not just the world that’s going to change. It’s also going to be us!
Now that’s a thought . I dovekie e the visitor center was dedicated to be a temple.
Casey and Scott thanks a lot for exploring Lot! This is helpful spoonful, good gruel, neglected niche! Let’s continue to let _Community of Christ Church_ mow the law there - let them lurk and do the work till ownership shifts to _True and Living Church_ in Lord’s due time sublime!
love it!
Here are two sourses from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints stating that the city Zion, the New Jerusalem will be built in Jackson County Missouri.
See guide to scriptures:
Jackson County, Missouri (USA) See also New Jerusalem The gathering place of the Saints in the last days; that is, the center place where they will establish the New Jerusalem (D&C 57-58; 82; 101:69-71; 105:28).
See topics and questions:
Zion
The word Zion can also refer to specific geographic locations, as follows: The city of Enoch (see Moses 7:18-21). The ancient city of Jerusalem (see 2 Samuel 5:6-7; 1 Kings 8:1; 2 Kings 9:28). The New Jerusalem, which will be built in Jackson County, Missouri (see Doctrine and Covenants 45:66-67; 57:1-3; Articles of Faith 1:1 17:49 0).
Can you please quote the Bible so I can look into it?
Can you enlighten me about
what it says in D&C 84: 4-5 about "this generation " For me it means their generation shall not pass away until the house shall be completed. maybe I don't understand yet. thanks for this video I felt again to restudy the Church History
Sure. It’s just a statement made to be impressive to Jospeh’s followers and gain their trust. He used language that alluded to Matthew 24 to give it a sense of authority. The statement has nothing to do with reality, however, which is of course obvious to us now since we know it never happened.
@@Applest2oApplesStop lying Joseph Smith lied, he said is his generation that was 191 years ago, he lied to the people he's a false prophet , And Matthew 24 has nothing to do with that lying false prophet
I learned a lot!
Fire dap at the end of the vid 😤🔥
Great video. Great information, except for the part at the end when they say that The New Jerusalem might not end up being built in Jackson County Missouri. That’s definitely incorrect. The New Jerusalem will be built in Jackson County and it will be the center stake of Zion and Zion will stretch out from there to all her stakes. Great job! I love hearing about this.
I have to correct you about Harry Truman. He was born in Lamar, MO, 128 miles south of Independence. Bess Truman was born in Independence, and the home they lived in was her parents' house.
Its interesting he said we dont know what will at the end of the video. It is definitely official doctrine that New Jerusalem will be built there in the future.
David O. McKay said, in response to the notion that our work is over in Jackson County and in response to the idea that we shall not return there: "All that I can say about that is that they do not understand the revelations."
Sadly, this video has influenced the missionaries at the Independence Visitor Center and they are boldly teaching (at least when I was there a few months ago), that we don't know where the center place of the New Jerusalem will be. They reference this video. More than one of the senior missionaries told me, "It could be anywhere. The Lord has not revealed it yet." It's a shame. The Lord did not reveal this then change his mind, as some would say.
Great video
For more on this topic, No King But Caesar & The Return Of The Melchisedec is available online at Advantage Books. Peace to all.
The problem with a lot of church scholars is that they think that their scholarship trumps revelation and their intellect is greater than the mantle.
It will be where ever I am. For I AM the one that will conquer all that I see.
Put the painted cardboard sword down and stop conquering everything. Try being nice instead.
@@archangel_oneyou mad bro?
@@LibertarianUSA1982 As long as you are "playing well with others," why would I be angry?😁
@@archangel_one you need to calm down
@@LibertarianUSA1982 I am calm.
Biden starting WW3, no problem. Everything coming true around Armageddon literally, that's okay.
US sending warships to Israel, Israel enacting Article 40 Aleph, no worries.
Do you think that Zion will be built initially built at SLC? Then they will move to Missouri?
Can we agree that the New Jerusalem must be built before the second coming?
If so, is it a city or a rising nation supplanting a falling one or something in between?
The Truth as the Lord said that Independence Missouri is the center spot. A temple will be built there as directed by the Lord. The temple will be round with a dome on it. Also we do have a temple built just 14 miles from the center spot. It’s the Kansas City Kansas temple. The temple network in Zion has already begun.
IS still the spot.
No actually the word Lamanites is not a broad word or term for every Native American, the Savior knows where the remnant of the Lamanites are and were at the time, and so did Joseph Smith. Not every darker skin person on the western hemisphere was a Lamanites. Stop trying to change history because you think the the people of the Book of Mormon lived in Centralcentral America. The history of the Book of Mormon happened up in the United States and the remnants of the Lamanites, are exactly where the Savior and Joseph Smith said they were.
One reason to believe it is just a story is because there is no Mormon consensus on where these historical events took place. In short, in order to believe in the Book of Mormon I need a map of the Book of Mormon and there isn’t one. Anywhere.
Most Bibles contain maps illustrating where important biblical events took place. You can visit the ruins of cities described in the Bible. If you get atheist, Christian, and Jewish scholars together, they can roughly agree on where the events allegedly took place and confirm the existence of cities and sites in those places, even if an atheist or a Jew denies certain miracles or historical events took place there.
Nothing comparable can be said about the Book of Mormon.
Some Mormons say the events of the book take place across North and South America. Others say it took place in Central America, in Panama or Mexico. And still other say the events of the book took place in the Heartland of America. That’s why some Mormons are conducting expeditions in Southeast Iowa to uncover the ancient city of Zaramehla that purportedly had 100,000 people living in it in the fourth century, which would have made it one of the largest cities in ancient North America. But so far, the expeditions haven’t been promising. In fact, according to the National Geographic Society, “Archaeologists and other scholars have long probed the hemisphere’s past, and the society does not know of anything found so far that has substantiated the Book of Mormon.”
To put this into perspective, it would be very difficult to defend the Bible if some Christians said the city of Jerusalem was in Israel, others said it was in southern France, and still others said it was in India.
A Few False Prophecies of Joseph Smith, Founder of the Mormon sect.
*In 1835 Joseph Smith prophesied the Lord’s return within 56 years (History of the Church, Vol. 2, pg. 182). By 1891 this was proven to be a false prophecy.
*In 1843 Joseph Smith prophesied that the United States government would be overthrown and wasted within a few years if they refused to redress the wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri (History of the Church, Vol. 5, pg. 394). The United States government has never formally redressed any wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri and the government still stands nearly 170 years later.
*In 1832 Joseph Smith prophesied that the present generation of Mormons would not pass away before the temple of the New Jerusalem would be built in Zion, Missouri (Doctrine & Covenants Section 84). The Mormons were forced to flee Missouri and no temple was constructed there in Joseph Smith’s lifetime or within the generation that witnessed this prophecy.
*In 1832 Joseph Smith prophesied that the United States civil war would eventually engulf all nations (Doctrine & Covenants Section 87). This prophecy did not come close to being fulfilled.
Joseph Smith made many other false prophecies in his lifetime. By the standards of God’s word, he must be labeled a false prophet (Deuteronomy 18:20-22).
@@richlopez5896yeah, it seems Joseph Smith said a lot of grand things, but in the end he had to come up with more prophesies to address previous prophesies that didn't happen. He must have been very charismatic and a great orator, but a charlatan nonetheless.
Truman was born in Lamar, MO
And then he moved to Grandview, MO and then to Independence, MO.
Doctrine & Covenants 101:20
"And, behold, there is none other place appointed than that which I have appointed; neither shall there be any other place appointed than that which I have appointed, for the work of the gathering of my saints"
We LOST the privilege to build up ZION and were driven out due to the unworthiness of the saints, and we as a Church are still under this condemnation (Doctrine & Covenants 84: 54-61)
There are COUNTLESS quotes from Prophets and Apostles stating that we WILL return to waste places of Jackson County to build the New Jerusalem.
As President Nelson has warned us, "Stop increasing your doubts by rehearsing them with other doubters"
These two men here doubt the Prophesies and Promises of God and his servants. They are mingling the scriptures with their opinions, Philosophies of man.
Let the words of Mormon echo in your ears:
“Behold I say unto you, he that denieth these things knoweth not the gospel of Christ; yea, he has not read the scriptures; if so, he does not understand them…
…And these things are written that we may rid our garments of the blood of our brethren, who have dwindled in unbelief.”
Zion is a jewish location in Jerusalem,so if you call us non members gentiles,stick to where Jesus said,as D&C.843-4,Joseph said that a TEMPLE WOULD BE ON THAT LOT IN JACKSON COUNTY INSIDE HIS/1GENERATION in new Americas,but***
SORRY is a FAILED PROPHECY,INSPITE OF EXTRAPOLATIONS BY THIS HISTORIAN FOR OTHERS both Far West&Adomonhdi being both 20&30 MILES NORTH OUT OF THE CITY.
Deutornomy17 describes what we do with wrong prophets,stop listening to them!😮
Wow. Members really don't study and just they listen people teach them false doctrine. We're going back there. It is the place of the new Jerusalem. READ YOUR SCRIPTURES PEOPLE. AND REFERENCE THE STUDENT MANUALS. Zion or bust
Do you teach everything about church history? Facts without opinion. I hope so. The truth will set you free.
Thank you for this. So many people still think this all needs to be done before the second coming.
It will happen, from some time before the second coming, in the second coming or even in the millenium
If SLC was made the new gathering center place, how many temples are in UT? The Lord is practical. Another point is that there has been A LOT of preparing for the second coming subject matter from our prophetic leaders but NO talks in conference about Jackson, Co. The church is spending tremendous $$$/resources preparing SLC but almost nothing at Jackson Co. I will follow the apostolic and prophetic leaders of our church.
It will be part of the 2nd Coming - which is multiple visits from the Savior over many years. See April 2021 Liahona - explaining Who has and will see the risen Lord….
@@commoncents5191or this on the Church website:
Jackson County, Missouri (USA)
See also New Jerusalem
The gathering place of the Saints in the last days; that is, the center place where they will establish the New Jerusalem (D&C 57-58; 82; 101:69-71; 105:28).
Zion can be anywhere . Zion is in your heart. But two head quarters . Jackson county Missouri and Jerusalem .
Revalations 21:16 gives the size of New Jerusalem. Literally much of north america but could figuratively describe all of north, and possibly even south america.
In 1900, Lorenzo Snow said that a large portion of the saints in Utah will return to Jackson County Missouri.
We’re there other group name changes I wasn’t aware of???
Back on the 1990’s the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints changed their name to “Community of Christ”. Why did you use both names while showcasing who built what?
He is correct in mentioning them as two distinct denominations. I'm not sure of the history or differentiation here, though.
Isn't all kept sooooo beautifully and pristine, gotta be for great future...for us. 3:40
@@Glen.Danielsen Hey Glen, As it turns out I was a bit off on my dates. The Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of later-day Saints broke ground on the their spiral temple in 1990, and completed it in 1994. They changed their name to Community of Christ in 2001. So for me, it doesn't make sense to refer to them as created by differently named groups, when they had the same name when they were built.
Otherwise I've really loved the Video's Brother Griffith's put's out. They are great to watch on a Sunday morning while getting ready for church.
@@gushemingway I agree with you. Have a blessed week! 😊🙏🏽
😊
The book of Deuteronomy explains how only God knows the future. And how you test a prophet... God said in
Deuteronomy 18:20 “‘If any prophet presumptuously speaks a word in my name that I did not command him to speak or speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. 21 However, you may say in your heart: “How will we KNOW THAT Jehovah has not spoken the word?” 22 When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and THE WORD IS NOT FULFILLED or DOES NOT COME TRUE, then JEHOVAH DID NOT SPEAK THAT WORD."
That's how the Israelites were to test a prophet. If anything he said did not come true, he's a false prophet and you must put him to death..
You have to remember. The Jews had thousands of zealots who came out of the woods telling everyone "God spoke to me. He said 'give me a tenth of your income to build my church'"
And the Israelites put hundreds of them to death! Joseph Smith has an accounting to God one day, and I would not want to be there when it occurs!
A Few False Prophecies of Joseph Smith, Founder of the Mormon Cult
*In 1835 Joseph Smith prophesied the Lord’s return within 56 years (History of the Church, Vol. 2, pg. 182). By 1891 this was proven to be a false prophecy.
*In 1843 Joseph Smith prophesied that the United States government would be overthrown and wasted within a few years if they refused to redress the wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri (History of the Church, Vol. 5, pg. 394). The United States government has never formally redressed any wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri and the government still stands nearly 170 years later.
*In 1832 Joseph Smith prophesied that the present generation of Mormons would not pass away before the temple of the New Jerusalem would be built in Zion, Missouri (Doctrine & Covenants Section 84). The Mormons were forced to flee Missouri and no temple was constructed there in Joseph Smith’s lifetime or within the generation that witnessed this prophecy.
*In 1832 Joseph Smith prophesied that the United States civil war would eventually engulf all nations (Doctrine & Covenants Section 87). This prophecy did not come close to being fulfilled.
Joseph Smith made many other false prophecies in his lifetime. By the standards of God’s word, he must be labeled a false prophet (Deuteronomy 18:20-22).
The "history" professor doesn't know his history. In the first few seconds... Harry Truman was not born in Independence, MO. Try reading a history book. It was Lamar, MO, about 120 miles due south.
He grew up in Independence Missouri.
Awesome
Evidence showing the BIBLE is TRUE and the Book of Mormon is NOT TRUE:
No wheat, no goats, no steel found in the Americas, no metal smelting furnaces, no metal armor, no temple like Solomon's as described in 2 Nephi 5:16 have ever been found described in the Book of Mormon. No steel swords, no skeletons of these warriors, no graves, no trace of the "great acity Zarahemla" (it would be impossible for a city the size of Zarahemla 4 Nephi 1:8 to leave no trace), no cattle, no chariot parts, no evidence of the listed Kings in BOM, no Jewish relics or Jewish Temples from supposed Jews, No Jewish dna found in Indians, no metal plates like Nephites supposedly used, no Nephite "reformed Egyptian" writings found, no middle eastern seeds growing, "which were brought from the land of Jerusalem ... and grew exceedingly" 1 Nephi 18:24
There is zero archaeological, anthropological, topological, linguistic, botanical or dna evidence to support the Book of Mormon. It would be IMPOSSIBLE for highly advanced civilizations (Jaredites, Nephites) with MILLIONS of people to have vanished off the face of the earth. The whole face of the land become covered with buildings” yet not one ever located. (Mormon 1:7)
“Two million Jaredites slain” (Ether 15:2), 38 cities are catalogued in the BOM, along with iron, brass, breast-plates, shields, and armor. Yet, not one item mentioned in the BOM has ever been discovered in Americas.
The BOM speaks of sheep, swine, silk and wool clothing and elephants existing in the Americas when they did not. 1 Ne.13:7; Alma 4:6; Ether 9:17 and 10:24 These were brought to America centuries later by Europeans.
CAN WE TRUST OUR HEARTS AS TO THE TRUTH OF THE BOOK OF MORMON since there is no evidence?
D&C Section 9:8-9 - tell us that if something is true it will make our "bosom burn" and we will FEEL that it is right. This is NOT how the bible tells us to determine if something is true. Acts 17:11 "they... EXAMINED THE SCRIPTURES EVERY DAY to see if what Paul said was TRUE"; "Do not treat prophecies with contempt but TEST THEM ALL" 1 Thes 5:19-21
Maroni 10:4 says: "he will manifest the truth of it unto you" But: THE BIBLE WARNS YOU about trusting your own heart. Jeremiah 17:9 "the heart is deceitful above all things". Proverbs 28:26 "He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool." God gave you common sense and reason to use, not ignore.
The best way to guard yourself against falsehood and false teachers is to examine the TRUTH of the bible.
2 Timothy 2:15 KJV "Study to show thyself approved unto God, ... rightly dividing the word of TRUTH."
1 John 4:1 states "Beloved, BELIEVE NOT EVERY SPIRIT, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because MANY false prophets are gone out into the world."
The entire belief system and premise of Mormonism is based on a PROVABLY FALSE claim the Bible was corrupted and "plain and precious parts" were removed by early Christian translators sometime after the apostles died. However, there isn’t ANY specific biblical scripture found ANYWHERE, EVER, WRITTEN BEFORE CHRIST BORN OR AFTER, that directly supports Joseph Smith’s translation of the Bible.
An Objective Test of the Bible and Book of Mormon
The Claim: In the BOM, the prophet Nephi has a vision the Bible was corrupted after the 12 apostles and after the formation of the “great and abominable church” (1 Nephi 13:26-29). Most Mormons believe this to be the Catholic Church formed in the 4th century. Nephi claims this church was founded by the Devil to lead souls to HELL (1 Nephi 14:3). So let’s objectively examine both the Bible and the BOM to be fair and test for errors.
Bible: The Dead Sea Scrolls have been dated to as early as 350 BC. Included is the Great Isaiah Scroll, which is the oldest known copy of the Book of Isaiah dated to 180 BC.
Do the ancient scrolls show Smith's "uncorrupted" version? NO they don't! Yet they would if the scripture was later corrupted after the 12 apostles died as Smith said.
We also know these old scriptures were not corrupted otherwise, Jesus would have corrected the scripture instead of affirming it was the word of God! Jesus said, “ I told you everything written about me in the Law of Moses, the Books of the Prophets, and in the Psalms had to happen.” (Luke 24:44-46)
They are the same today as they were 2,100+ years ago with only minor spelling or punctuation differences. Joseph Smith was wrong. These scrolls could not have been touched by the Catholics, these are Jewish scrolls and the BOM claims that the Jews had the Scriptures in their "purity". 1Nephi 13:25
LDS Apologist Wayne Ham admitted the Isaiah scroll does not support the text in the BOM. Apologist Dr. Sidney B. Sperry, of BYU, admitted that the Dead Sea Scrolls do not help the case for the BOM but uphold the validity of the scripture. BYU ancient scripture Professor Joseph F. McConkie: "Rather than Joseph Smith as Found in Ancient Manuscripts, it ought to be Joseph Smith as Lost in Ancient Manuscripts.” (Religious Studies Center, BYU 1984), 11-31.
IS THE GOD OF THE BOOK OF MORMON THE SAME ONE AS IN THE BIBLE? NO!
"Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.” (Isaiah 43:10) If Mormonism is true, then God could not make this claim, for he was just a man at one point; nor could he claim that no gods would come after him, for that is the goal of members of the LDS.
Like Joseph Smith this was the goal of Satan, to be like God and have worshippers. "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God ... I will be like the Most High”’ (Isaiah 14:12-14)
The new testament has not been corrupted either. Take John 1:1 an important verse than Smith changed to make Jesus a created being. A papyri known as the Bodmer Papyri which is 1900 years old of the book of John. (written 150 AD, not long after the apostle John died)
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God." ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΚΑΙ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΗΝ ΠΡΟΣ ΤΟΝ ΘΕΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΘΕΟΣ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ (look up this ancient Greek yourself on google)
John 1:1 Joseph Smith translation: "In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God." See the obvious changes where Smith makes Jesus a created person instead of the creator and not one "with" God but "of" God.
There are 4,000 Greek manuscripts of the New Testament in whole or in part. Some go back to 350 AD and NONE support Joseph Smith's claims that the bible of today has been corrupted.
Fragments exist of papyrus copies of the New Testament dated from 175 AD and show that the new testament we have is reliable and has not been "corrupted".. (The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable? Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1967 (Leicester: Inter-Varsity Press, 1960) pp. 15-17
In the LDS Church’s 147th Conference, Gen Authority Bernard P. Brockbank stated that the Christ followed by the Mormons is NOT THE CHRIST followed by traditional Christianity. (The Ensign, May 1977, p. 26)
I post this in love. The manuscript and archeological evidence for the BIBLE is the greatest of ANYTHING in antiquity. I pray that you know the real Jesus, real peace, love and true salvation and not the counterfeit version of Joseph Smith.
"Though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Galatians1:8 Matthew 24:24 warns Satan will send false prophets and Satan poses as an angel of light! 2 Corinthians 11:14
There is no way for the Biblical account of Jesus to arrive at the account of the Book of Mormon. I hope to open eyes that God is much greater than the humanoid of Mormonism and just ONE OF AN ENDLESS NUMBER OF GODS.
Jesus said all scripture shall not fade away but "many wolves in sheep's clothing" and false prophets will come trying to add to the word. Mathew 7:15 Joseph Smith did just that changing both Jesus and the Father and he taught you can become a God yourself.
It pains my heart to see Mormons fall for the lie that Satan first told Adam and Eve that we can be like the "most high". Genesis 3:3-5
"The only men who become Gods, even the sons of Gods are those that enter into polygamy." (Brigham Young) Journal of Discourses 11 p.269
Also, Apostle Orson Pratt, in The Seer, page 172, “…the great Messiah who was the founder of the Christian religion was a Polygamist…the Messiah chose to take upon himself his seed; and by marrying many wives himself, … The son followed the example of his Father"
I gotta watch again..👍 17:04
Here we are
Will be a historic meeting in that valley.
A church future site as apposed to a church history site.... love it
Love the history of the lord church
I wonder why you did not mention that Adam-ondi-Ahman it is the site where Adam and Eve lived after being expelled from the Garden of Eden? I wonder if any Church archeologists have done archeological digs at Adam-ondi-Ahman. Proving that Creation happened here would set archeology, anthropology, geneology, and other sciences on their head!
“And, behold, there is none other place appointed than that which I have appointed; neither shall there be any other place appointed than that which I have appointed, for the work of the gathering of my saints-“ - D&C 101:20. This is the place for the city of Zion. It must be built before the coming of Christ (see Moses 7, and 3 Nephi 20 and 21). But as to the WHEN (besides before Christ’s coming), we know not. We look to/wait for the prophet to reveal that.
I believe that revelation to rebuild will be given, theres a great possibility it will be during the second coming at Adamondiahman to his people to be instructed and to be edified from Micheal our father who will sound his trump to usher in his children.
I am 67 years old now, and I believe that the "winding up" events of the Second Coming will be long after I have died.
Revelation in its purest form is the understanding of oneself in relation to God. Everything else is like trying to pick up bread crumbs waiting for it to magically appear. It's like knowing Jesus. If you know Jesus then you live and experience the whole truth just not in complete perfection yet. That is realized in a process. There is a mistake made when someone tries to accumulate different truth and principles as though they are separate one from the other when they are all One in Jesus Christ.
In Revelation 21:16 it states the City of Zion will be a 1500 mile cube. The center will be in Missouri but it will be huge.