I got sent this old Trix Trains Mallard by a guy called Dave. He said it was very noisy, not too good a runner and derailed. Support - ko-fi.com/00bill73561 FAQ - ko-fi.com/post/FAQ-C0C6E0UO4
I never realised the loco had a traction tyre. Maybe because of the muck! Definitely sounds a bit quieter at the end, the thicker oil probably helped a lot. Thanks Bill for another great job and video, I thought a Trix might be of interest not having looked at one before.
Hi Bill, Another very useful video and fortuitous for me as I’ve been requested to service/repair a Trix ‘Warship’ with an identical motor and drive on the motor bogie. It is missing any form of collector plate assy. so will have to innovate & fabricate a solution. According to my Ramsey’s Catalogue these models date from 1960s. I will try the fibre washer idea under the motor screw heads to reduce transmission noise. Thanks for sharing your skills and patient attention to detail. Best Regards, Tony 🚂
Good repair - the loco dates 1970-72, uses a Trix Perma 3 pole motor, the original front bogie flanges won't go through Hornby points but will through Peco - however the later variant - Liliput had smaller flanges.
Trix had several UK models in the late 1960s/early 1970s. their products and availabilty was somewhat erratic. They offered a Western class diesel-hydraulic, an E3001 25kV electric, ex LNER classes A3 and A2, a class 47 Brush type 4, was in the catalogue but never made production. The A4 was acquired by Bachmann and was sold by Bachmann until quite recently. Trix had issues, the Western was very underscale in length, Trix had issues with Mazak corrosion, there is a Trix club who manufacture replacement parts including chassis parts. A friend is a Trix user, they can be difficult to restore, resetting gear meshing can be a time-consuming issue, possibly due to mild warping of the castings
8:29, the red spot of paint is factory applied, it indicates the correct alignment of the motor to chassis for gear meshing purposes, however the mazak castings can creep dimensionally and even fail by breaking up. The Trix club manufacture replacement castings
You’ve got all the Trix Bill being able to fettle these old stagers,you’re not only helping folk keep their much loved models alive but also keeping the history of the industry running . Classified as an old fart now ,l never even considered the noise my first train made,just the pure delight in owning it……..how our expectations have been reset ………keep em rolling Bill.
I would imagine the traction tyre is there to give better friction to the wheels to help them rotate rather than just stopping and then pushed by the tender but without the loco wheels going round. 👍
I have an A3 and two A4's (although one is branded Lilliput) and they are all as noisy. I found that lining the inside of the tender body with thin foam improved things a little. Interestingly, the A2 which I also have has the same motor but it's located in the locomotive. The Trix EM1, a much older model and a 1956 German diesel I have have the same motor so it's served Trix well over the years.
It runs really well for such an old model to be fair. Not to bad looking for its time as well - its got glazed windows which Hornby's of the time didn't. Thanks for another nice video Bill!
From information provided by a friend, a Trix collector, the tender casting indicates a superior Trix product and not the later Trix-Lilliput product, the driving wheels have 20 spokes and not 26 spokes which dates the model also back to Trix and not Lilliput
I have a lilliput model which had mazak rot in the tender which I retro fitted a hornby tender to it and runs great , I was expecting to find the inside of the trix model to be the same but no if anything the lilliput version is more refined compared to the trix model. It's surprising how many models don't get serviced regularly but with you and myself hopefully we can get a few running better great video Bill. Brian
Fascinating locomotive. A LONG time ago - perhaps 45 years - I had a Liliput blue LNER Mallard. Vaguely remembering, it seemed very different to that, whilst still tender driven. Al.
I have one of these and was hoping you would find to cause of the noise but when you took it apart yours has a different motor! But you have persuaded me to have another go as I have learned a lot over the years since the last time I had a look (It’s rarely used cos of the noise n I’m LMS !). Out of interest mine was bought new by daddy in the 60’s and my tender - loco wires are under the footplate and I have changed the coupling to Kadee - yea they’re an extravagance but I do like shunting so my stock is Kadee’d in rakes
Well, that was interesting. I haven't worked with one of those, but I have worked on some other late Trix models, including a couple of BR Class 5 4-6-0s. Those were loco-driven, set up for either 3-rail or 2-rail operation. They also had wires between loco and tender. On the second Class 5 that I had, the bogie was just awful, and absolutely wouldn't stay on the rails over points etc. I tried weighting the bogie, and adjusting its mounting, but it still derailed all the time. I was only able to finally stop the bogie derailing by fitting replacement wheels, with slightly larger flanges, to it.
Hi bill I hope you are well I've never seen a trix loco it does look nice Only trix item I have a trix wheel cleaner Thank you for sharing the fix and model with us Keep safe ARP
Some Trix Liliput engines are noisier than others. I have a Peppercorn that wants to be the noisiest 00 loco ever, despite lubrication. Yet, another of the same design is much quieter. The wiring between the engine and the tender does vary in its route between models as well.
What a stunning machine. I feel inclined to pick one up but I can't imagine they are cheap when one does come up for sale. She runs beautifully but it seemed like a real faff disassembling and reassembling for servicing. I don't care about the noise as long as it's healthy. It gives them character.
I would leave them to the Trix enthusiasts, the Hornby A4 in the various guises from basic through to super-detail is a better option. Also note that Bachmann acquired the tooling and sold their version of the Trix A4 until around 10 years ago
I would have been tempted to put some vibration insulation between the motor and the brackets, maybe some thin latex from a sugical glove, and the same as a little washer betweem the screw heads and the bracket, may take away some of the vibration noise. Anyway another great video James, my namesake lol, keep up the good work
I thought of that but it's really too tight a fit between the motor and the mounts with zero give. You wouldn't get enough cushioning in there to make any difference. I guess it would be possible to file away some of the mounting brackets but I didn't want to start hacking into this too much.
If I remember correctly, Trix and Liliput both made an A4 back in the seventies. Liliput also made an A3 which I think was an odd one as it was HO scale. Rivarossi or Lima, I think, made a Royal Scot around the same time. Trix made N scale models and they were sold under the Hornby/Minitrix brand.
I didn't think it sounded too loud, but I think it may have the wrong bogie on the front. It has black wheels and the loco has red. I have never seen a Mallard with black bogie wheels before, but I haven't seen a Trix locomotive until now. Martin. (Thailand)
Nice. Trix models use sililar looking German locomotive chassis repurposed to fit an English body. That's why the front bogie is black and the fluted rods are painted red. The motor would have been up front on the german BR whatever class it was hence the traction tire. The same thing with the minitrix models.
Great service here bill, to be honest you have a much better mechanism on this model compared to one that I had a couple of years ago, I had bought a flying Scotsman also made by trix and that had the motor in the locomotive and not the tender, after a couple of runs around my track the worm gear on the motor and the gear to the wheels wouldn’t mesh together and it basically rendered the chassis of this Scotsman that I had useless as I couldn’t get spares, the tyres on this loco probably indicate that trix originally at some point had the motor in the locomotive until they changed it to have the motor in the tender, also I think the a4s and a3s from trix did share the same chassis from what I have seen, although my Scotsman had a bad chassis design I bought a Peppercorn A2 also made by trix and this one has been much better.
Trix had issues with warping of the mazak castings, I have a Trix A2 purchased S/H, the owner had swapped the Trix chassis for a Triang Britannia chassis, the very reliable Britannia chassis with the X04 motor was a good match to the Trix body to produce a very credible A2
Looks like you had your work cut out for you there James. I'm not convinced that loco was completely original for starters given the traction tyres, wiring, and the mismatch of red and black wheels (all the wheels should be red on the blue Mallard). Another great video👍🏻
Good work Bill, the Trix LNER Pacifics are OO gauge but all the other Trix items are a hybrid scale of 3.8mm rather than 4mm to the foot. They look good on their own but put any of the other items next to OO models and they look a bit odd.
They say you learn something new every day! I knew that Trix-Twin made 'OO' locos but never knew that thy also produced 'OO' two-rail locos under the Trix brand. They produced some British outline locos in 'N' gauge for a while (initially marketed by Hornby, but subsequently sold under the Minitrix brand). Trix went bust a few years ago and were subsequently acquired by Maerklin who now tend to market their two-rail DC models under the Trix brand (Maerklin models are 3-rail AC locos).
Hi James/Bill (or whatever). You've done a good job on what is a relatively poor toy loco. I first took an interest in toy trains around the early 1960s and, IMHO, the handful of locos that Trix manufactured were of a rather low standard and not worth opening your wallet for. I don't know if the takeover has changed all that, but I don't think I would part with any money to purchase an updated version. Better to stick with the devil you know like Hornby and Bachmann etc. Paul.
A great job, Bill. I can't see why the traction tyre. The cable is a bit weired. It does sound quieter, maybe the front bogie is a bit light. I could not see any signs of derailment.
Interesting mechanism. I think you could make the motor less noisy by balancing the rotor. That involves complete disassembly of the motor and removal of pinion gear. So perhaps not worth the effort. Thank you for the video! Take care.
You won`t get these locos to run very quietly,the tender is a large sound box which amplifies any motor noise.I hink it is the later Lilliput motor,not a patch on the original Trix permamotor.
Hello Bill , I think the tender is lIke a loud speaker and magnifies the gear and motor noises , some insulation inside may have made it quieter but motor may overheat so it is what it is , noisy :-)
The motor seems really out of balance when run on its own, I get the feeling it needs a model engineer to look at these, maybe improved bearings, somehow getting the armature dynamically balanced, that’s if it’s possible on such a small scale, the gears would need looking at too, to see what kind of backlash there is between them, as I would imagine the imbalance of the motor rattles through the transmission, coupled with the acoustic box tender is making the unholy racket. At the end of the day, it does come down to what the owner wants, whether it be sticking to the original noisy model, improving the running with existing “tuned” motor and transmission, or complete mechanism replacement.
That’s not the original front bogey wheels for one tricks made Loco drive and tender drive. The Loco Drive ones are way better. Keep in mind that this was made when triangle still kicking out of the horrible little princess back in the day, so this is really old look at the quality of the moulding, compared to its competitors, for how old it is. And the tender drive Locos, which this is one of our well known for being noisy. I’ve quieten mine down by putting some thin sticky foam on the inside of the tender where I can. It helps a little.
The front bogie wheels have been replaced yes. That didn't make the edit. The originals are in the box and are painted red the same as the drive wheels but are in a bad state.
@@oobill the front bogey wheels on the old tricks. Locos used to suffer with the plating delaminating and natural, casting rotting to pieces of work that good, but the locos were very good for the rage. Keep in mind that they’re probably about 50+years old now. the flying Scotsman as well which way ahead of its time with moulding in the piston rod detail for each day.
I never realised the loco had a traction tyre. Maybe because of the muck! Definitely sounds a bit quieter at the end, the thicker oil probably helped a lot.
Thanks Bill for another great job and video, I thought a Trix might be of interest not having looked at one before.
Hi Bill, Another very useful video and fortuitous for me as I’ve been requested to service/repair a Trix ‘Warship’ with an identical motor and drive on the motor bogie. It is missing any form of collector plate assy. so will have to innovate & fabricate a solution. According to my Ramsey’s Catalogue these models date from 1960s. I will try the fibre washer idea under the motor screw heads to reduce transmission noise. Thanks for sharing your skills and patient attention to detail. Best Regards, Tony 🚂
Good repair - the loco dates 1970-72, uses a Trix Perma 3 pole motor, the original front bogie flanges won't go through Hornby points but will through Peco - however the later variant - Liliput had smaller flanges.
Trix had several UK models in the late 1960s/early 1970s. their products and availabilty was somewhat erratic. They offered a Western class diesel-hydraulic, an E3001 25kV electric, ex LNER classes A3 and A2, a class 47 Brush type 4, was in the catalogue but never made production.
The A4 was acquired by Bachmann and was sold by Bachmann until quite recently.
Trix had issues, the Western was very underscale in length, Trix had issues with Mazak corrosion, there is a Trix club who manufacture replacement parts including chassis parts.
A friend is a Trix user, they can be difficult to restore, resetting gear meshing can be a time-consuming issue, possibly due to mild warping of the castings
8:29, the red spot of paint is factory applied, it indicates the correct alignment of the motor to chassis for gear meshing purposes, however the mazak castings can creep dimensionally and even fail by breaking up. The Trix club manufacture replacement castings
You’ve got all the Trix Bill being able to fettle these old stagers,you’re not only helping folk keep their much loved models alive but also keeping the history of the industry running .
Classified as an old fart now ,l never even considered the noise my first train made,just the pure delight in owning it……..how our expectations have been reset ………keep em rolling Bill.
I would imagine the traction tyre is there to give better friction to the wheels to help them rotate rather than just stopping and then pushed by the tender but without the loco wheels going round. 👍
Possibly. But the loco is heavy enough it doesn't need it and would benefit more from the better pickup without it.
I have an A3 and two A4's (although one is branded Lilliput) and they are all as noisy. I found that lining the inside of the tender body with thin foam improved things a little. Interestingly, the A2 which I also have has the same motor but it's located in the locomotive. The Trix EM1, a much older model and a 1956 German diesel I have have the same motor so it's served Trix well over the years.
It runs really well for such an old model to be fair. Not to bad looking for its time as well - its got glazed windows which Hornby's of the time didn't. Thanks for another nice video Bill!
From information provided by a friend, a Trix collector, the tender casting indicates a superior Trix product and not the later Trix-Lilliput product, the driving wheels have 20 spokes and not 26 spokes which dates the model also back to Trix and not Lilliput
I have a lilliput model which had mazak rot in the tender which I retro fitted a hornby tender to it and runs great , I was expecting to find the inside of the trix model to be the same but no if anything the lilliput version is more refined compared to the trix model. It's surprising how many models don't get serviced regularly but with you and myself hopefully we can get a few running better great video Bill.
Brian
Fascinating locomotive.
A LONG time ago - perhaps 45 years - I had a Liliput blue LNER Mallard. Vaguely remembering, it seemed very different to that, whilst still tender driven.
Al.
I have one of these and was hoping you would find to cause of the noise but when you took it apart yours has a different motor! But you have persuaded me to have another go as I have learned a lot over the years since the last time I had a look (It’s rarely used cos of the noise n I’m LMS !). Out of interest mine was bought new by daddy in the 60’s and my tender - loco wires are under the footplate and I have changed the coupling to Kadee - yea they’re an extravagance but I do like shunting so my stock is Kadee’d in rakes
Well, that was interesting. I haven't worked with one of those, but I have worked on some other late Trix models, including a couple of BR Class 5 4-6-0s. Those were loco-driven, set up for either 3-rail or 2-rail operation. They also had wires between loco and tender. On the second Class 5 that I had, the bogie was just awful, and absolutely wouldn't stay on the rails over points etc. I tried weighting the bogie, and adjusting its mounting, but it still derailed all the time. I was only able to finally stop the bogie derailing by fitting replacement wheels, with slightly larger flanges, to it.
Hi bill
I hope you are well
I've never seen a trix loco it does look nice
Only trix item I have a trix wheel cleaner
Thank you for sharing the fix and model with us
Keep safe ARP
Some Trix Liliput engines are noisier than others. I have a Peppercorn that wants to be the noisiest 00 loco ever, despite lubrication. Yet, another of the same design is much quieter.
The wiring between the engine and the tender does vary in its route between models as well.
What a stunning machine. I feel inclined to pick one up but I can't imagine they are cheap when one does come up for sale. She runs beautifully but it seemed like a real faff disassembling and reassembling for servicing. I don't care about the noise as long as it's healthy. It gives them character.
I would leave them to the Trix enthusiasts, the Hornby A4 in the various guises from basic through to super-detail is a better option. Also note that Bachmann acquired the tooling and sold their version of the Trix A4 until around 10 years ago
I picked it up off Ebay for £50 or thereabouts, I never spend much more than that on used locos.
I would have been tempted to put some vibration insulation between the motor and the brackets, maybe some thin latex from a sugical glove, and the same as a little washer betweem the screw heads and the bracket, may take away some of the vibration noise. Anyway another great video James, my namesake lol, keep up the good work
I thought of that but it's really too tight a fit between the motor and the mounts with zero give. You wouldn't get enough cushioning in there to make any difference. I guess it would be possible to file away some of the mounting brackets but I didn't want to start hacking into this too much.
@@oobill yeah I can see where you coming from, glad we were thinking along the same lines though, gives me a bit more confidence lol
If I remember correctly, Trix and Liliput both made an A4 back in the seventies. Liliput also made an A3 which I think was an odd one as it was HO scale. Rivarossi or Lima, I think, made a Royal Scot around the same time. Trix made N scale models and they were sold under the Hornby/Minitrix brand.
I didn't think it sounded too loud, but I think it may have the wrong bogie on the front. It has black wheels and the loco has red. I have never seen a Mallard with black bogie wheels before, but I haven't seen a Trix locomotive until now. Martin. (Thailand)
Trix engines of that era are called 'coffee grinders' - was a trade mark of Trix. When Mârklin took over it improved a lot.
In my opinion that’s a toy train as opposed to a model train. Good job on the overhaul!
I understand the body was revised by Bachmann for their current A4. Chassis was of course binned!
Nice. Trix models use sililar looking German locomotive chassis repurposed to fit an English body. That's why the front bogie is black and the fluted rods are painted red. The motor would have been up front on the german BR whatever class it was hence the traction tire. The same thing with the minitrix models.
Great service here bill, to be honest you have a much better mechanism on this model compared to one that I had a couple of years ago, I had bought a flying Scotsman also made by trix and that had the motor in the locomotive and not the tender, after a couple of runs around my track the worm gear on the motor and the gear to the wheels wouldn’t mesh together and it basically rendered the chassis of this Scotsman that I had useless as I couldn’t get spares, the tyres on this loco probably indicate that trix originally at some point had the motor in the locomotive until they changed it to have the motor in the tender, also I think the a4s and a3s from trix did share the same chassis from what I have seen, although my Scotsman had a bad chassis design I bought a Peppercorn A2 also made by trix and this one has been much better.
Trix had issues with warping of the mazak castings, I have a Trix A2 purchased S/H, the owner had swapped the Trix chassis for a Triang Britannia chassis, the very reliable Britannia chassis with the X04 motor was a good match to the Trix body to produce a very credible A2
Looks like you had your work cut out for you there James. I'm not convinced that loco was completely original for starters given the traction tyres, wiring, and the mismatch of red and black wheels (all the wheels should be red on the blue Mallard). Another great video👍🏻
Good work Bill, the Trix LNER Pacifics are OO gauge but all the other Trix items are a hybrid scale of 3.8mm rather than 4mm to the foot. They look good on their own but put any of the other items next to OO models and they look a bit odd.
Interesting loco. I believe that Bachmann took over the moulds for their early split chassis A4
They say you learn something new every day! I knew that Trix-Twin made 'OO' locos but never knew that thy also produced 'OO' two-rail locos under the Trix brand. They produced some British outline locos in 'N' gauge for a while (initially marketed by Hornby, but subsequently sold under the Minitrix brand). Trix went bust a few years ago and were subsequently acquired by Maerklin who now tend to market their two-rail DC models under the Trix brand (Maerklin models are 3-rail AC locos).
They only did a couple, this and a Scotsman
@@CumbriaRoadandRail Also a Britannia, A2, E2, Collett 56xx, and a Midland compound (per Hattons historical stocklist)
More than a few years ago, Marklin bought Trix out 25 years ago.
A very long lived model eventually ending up in the Bachmann range even getting a new chassis around 2012
Hi James/Bill (or whatever).
You've done a good job on what is a relatively poor toy loco. I first took an interest in toy trains around the early 1960s and, IMHO, the handful of locos that Trix manufactured were of a rather low standard and not worth opening your wallet for. I don't know if the takeover has changed all that, but I don't think I would part with any money to purchase an updated version. Better to stick with the devil you know like Hornby and Bachmann etc.
Paul.
really love your vids bill
A great job, Bill. I can't see why the traction tyre. The cable is a bit weired. It does sound quieter, maybe the front bogie is a bit light. I could not see any signs of derailment.
Interesting mechanism. I think you could make the motor less noisy by balancing the rotor. That involves complete disassembly of the motor and removal of pinion gear. So perhaps not worth the effort. Thank you for the video! Take care.
You won`t get these locos to run very quietly,the tender is a large sound box which amplifies any motor noise.I hink it is the later Lilliput motor,not a patch on the original Trix permamotor.
Once again another excellent job, she does sound better after your servicing. It does seem a faff to get to the mechanism though.
could put some rubber washers on those 2 screws that were silver to soak up some of the motor acoustic transfer away from the tender frame
Hello Bill , I think the tender is lIke a loud speaker and magnifies the gear and motor noises , some insulation inside may have made it quieter but motor may overheat so it is what it is , noisy :-)
The motor seems really out of balance when run on its own, I get the feeling it needs a model engineer to look at these, maybe improved bearings, somehow getting the armature dynamically balanced, that’s if it’s possible on such a small scale, the gears would need looking at too, to see what kind of backlash there is between them, as I would imagine the imbalance of the motor rattles through the transmission, coupled with the acoustic box tender is making the unholy racket.
At the end of the day, it does come down to what the owner wants, whether it be sticking to the original noisy model, improving the running with existing “tuned” motor and transmission, or complete mechanism replacement.
That's nice not really a Trix fan tho but good job. I wonder if a bit of insulation in the tender would quieten it down?
The noise that it makes is very realistic...... it's as loud as the real thing!
hey Bill. Any chance you can let me know what you use for your scooshing?
Yes, I too would be interested to know the secret of swooshing.
WD40 contact cleaner it believe
I do believe Trix locos & stock were scaled @ 3.8mm instead of 4mm ft.
Try DCC concepts micro-harness plug and socket for connecting tender to loco.
I'd be tempted to paint the exposed wired black -- not rocket science, so the owner can do that himself if he thinks it's a good idea.
That’s not the original front bogey wheels for one tricks made Loco drive and tender drive. The Loco Drive ones are way better. Keep in mind that this was made when triangle still kicking out of the horrible little princess back in the day, so this is really old look at the quality of the moulding, compared to its competitors, for how old it is. And the tender drive Locos, which this is one of our well known for being noisy. I’ve quieten mine down by putting some thin sticky foam on the inside of the tender where I can. It helps a little.
The front bogie wheels have been replaced yes. That didn't make the edit. The originals are in the box and are painted red the same as the drive wheels but are in a bad state.
@@oobill the front bogey wheels on the old tricks. Locos used to suffer with the plating delaminating and natural, casting rotting to pieces of work that good, but the locos were very good for the rage. Keep in mind that they’re probably about 50+years old now. the flying Scotsman as well which way ahead of its time with moulding in the piston rod detail for each day.
If the red wire was painted black it might not look so obvious and not so ugly.
I always thought trix were good models
Challenging job This one Bill
Nick Australia