As a retired mechanical engineer who paid for college by working in a heavy truck repair shop, I'm blown away by what you guys have accomplished. Everything that you're doing makes so much sense! Says a lot about you that you're willing to share the issues you've had and the solutions you intend to implement. Always enjoy your channel!!!!
It pays off that Edison Motors does what they know best: build a semi truck for lumber hauling. If they from the beginning had aimed for an universal semi truck, they probably had long been lost in lots of different and in many times contradictory requirements.
One word of advice - consider the next "Topsy" you build to be another prototype. You're making major changes to multiple major systems. There will likely be things you discover you did wrong (or could do better) with this iteration as well. Hopefully these changes will be much less significant and you will be able to retrofit them to Topsy2 before deciding it's ready for production.
This was the alpha version the next group will be the Beta testers then finally the full production version after that. Once in production there will continue to be changes from time to time as component and vendor changes come about was you roll out as new models😉😁
Fleming yachts does this. They deliver these multi million dollars boats with time tested systems, when a new system (generator, propulsion engine, extra) the owner is cruising the world 365. It gets installed on his boat first.
I'm pretty sure they've mentioned the trucks they have on order are with "friendly" customers, i.e. are willing to work through teething issues with the trucks.
Personally, I'd like the next prototype to be called 'Woody' and make the generator multi-fuel and run off LBP from a wood gas generator and/or a biodigester, to prove that anyone can make the fuel for their vehicles right at home.
Suggestion for the in-cab maintenance panel/cabinets- put it all directly behind the driver, but allow the seat to unlock and swivel 180 to face the cabinets. I'd lay them out where they wrap around the driver when the driver faces them which should make doing a lot of work on the panels more comfortable for the driver/technician. Also, include some sort of built-in battery backup LED lighting system that's separate from the truck's batteries so a driver can see everything if power goes out. Last bit, and it might be a bit obvious, include wiring diagrams (written in plain English) on the interior of the cabinet doors.
@@patx35 Also, depending on where you're operating, a little "free heating" in the cab might not be a bad thing (so long as it doesn't cause issues with the electronics).
Just food for thought. If the angry pixies in the electrical cabinet get extra angry and start to release magical colourful smoke, you'll need that cabinet to vent outside, not releasing smoke through any cracks, be isolated electrically and have a hard kill switch somewhere safe that the driver can reach near the door. Fire in the cab is a nightmare even in regular Diesel trucks. Even the paint for the electrical cabinet should be heat resistant. Also, a big thing that is an issue in the cab is thermal insulation, for winters in the North and summers in the South. Manufacturers usually don't really care about the excessive heat from DPF systems coming in the cab during summers, for example. I saw many drivers complain, but that's not in Canada usually 😅
Also probably a lot of that shit could be a simple pcb. Tradeoff is if you use multi-layer pcb, it's not that repairable. Like at all. If you use one layer pcb, it's not that bad. Especially if there's design documentation for it.
@TheHighborn For the HV obviously you can't. But for the LV they're probably only integrating off the shelf components for repairability, just connecting like industrial automation circuits. Not to mention even some LV systems might be a bit high for "affordable" PCBs. Creating a new level of complexity certainly isn't necessary or accessible with the scale of production they're projecting for the next few years.
Edison is doing what all startups should do, be transparent. Most of your failed startups hide the problems they have till they are too big to overcome. Like Nikola who tried to hide the fact that their prototype didn’t work and had to roll it down hill. I’m always weary of a company that says their prototype is working as planned and has no problems. Edison is doing all the right things for the right reasons and learning how to be one of those great companies everyone respects.
When you guys went through your cab wiring box it reminded me of a conversation with my fleet mechanics about troubleshooting. I come from an IT background. All network equipment has led lights that indicate the status state of the circuit. This would be an amazing upgrade to OTR vehicles to reduce troubleshooting times and identifying faults. Go look at your Wi-Fi router and you will see what I am talking about.
Or, as my old boss used to say, "everyone likes flashing lights". He designed and built custom, magic electronic 'boxes'. The clients always loved and commented on...the little flashing lights which served, generally, no use lol
In industry, we call them idiot lights for the operator to help in troubleshooting either over phone or radio. A HMI with accurate non jargon descriptors would be awesome too.
I’m not one for government subsidies (Bombardier) but I hope the BC and Canadian governments do what they can to work through any regulatory matters that Edison may run into while also promoting innovation. We need more companies like this in Canada. I’m not a tree hugger but innovative companies like this help reduce emissions not paper straws.
Hate to burst your bubble, but creating gigantic batteries like this are about as bad as you can get for the environment. The simple fact is, diesel engines are more environmentally friendly than these giant battery packs. SImple fact look it up. However I'm not against any new forms of transportation. I'm of the belief that our world is strong enough to handle basically anything and everything we could possibly throw at it. How foolish for humans to believe they can actually affect God's creation. Which will all be destroyed one day anyway. Peace ✌️
@@frankwilliams4445 I agree with you about the current battery technology. We are told it is green and eco friendly but is it really? I am more for products that work and people want to buy because they are better. I don’t want government mandates.
@@thetrainshop Like I said, I'm not against any new forms of transportation. But when these new forms are mandated by the government under the guise of being "eco-friendly" (which is a massive lie) when in reality it's all about profits and control, THEN I take issue.
The first "everything wrong with" that is not only with the manufacturer, but he is the one bringing up the problem's and already has the solutions on the next model. That is INSANE if you think about it compared to major OEM'S.
I am never going to buy one of these trucks but I am invested in watching every video!!! I been wanting someone to build something like this for years now and you guys are doing it
A good design is finished not when there's nothing more to add, but when there's nothing left to take away. I'm stoked to see the reduction in components and batteries!
When you guys are wildly successful i hope you get an office with topsy front and center as a display piece. That machine is everything you guys stand for, every nut, bolt, wire, hose deserves to be preserved as a reminder of what pure "fuck it, i'll do it myself" energy is capable of!
You guys are absolute legends. I wish all companies were as open and transparent and engaging as you guys are. You guys are the Framework Computers of trucks and it's hecking awesome!
As a heavy duty mechanic I’m excited to see these in the field. Thinking about service down the road is such an amazing change of pace! Hoping to see these enter the tandem snowplow space so I can see them! My employer is a HUGE buyer of new more fuel efficient technologies.
if your employer's purchasing dept has anyone you can mention Edison to them to keep an eye on for future purchases. Hell, if the DPF issues have been costing yall as much as most companies just the knowledge they'll be available with a Scania engine that won't require DPF should get the bean counters interested.
@@brunsy1990 I wish it was that simple, it’s a bid process. Every 5 years, for a certain state size govt entity. But because of the tech they might reach out to someone like this. If they were stateside it would be even easier. That’s why we’re stuck with 13 letter manure spreaders we get now!
Blows my mind that companies make motor and battery controllers for OEM applications but retain proprietary software that you can't access. I've tried small projects using Curtis controllers, and you would think their software access is for the nuclear launch codes!
@18:57 "Working on excellent code from someone else is harder than working on the worst code that you wrote yourself" - Man, as a coder and systems architect, I felt that one in my bones.
Wouldnt even need to be cabover just cab forward since no transmission no need to be engine forward if your generator was compact enough it could sit sideways behind the cab saving more frame rail space for more sleeper or customer components No tilting would be necessary since no engine underneath No generator under cab would make it easier to service on the cab forward version Would make the trash truck guys happy because they have cabovers now so cab forward would adapt well
Finally calling Topsy what it is....A prototype! The idea that you were "in production" is just crazy to me as someone who has been doing heavy equipment product development for over 20 years now.
When I do truck wiring I like to change it to a left circuit and a right circuit and do it with breakers so it identifies any problems for you and you need to have a twin seat set-up for training days and orientation days when there must be seating for an inspector in the cab and if you want to sell them in Australia they will have to have seatbelts
Been following for a couple years now, and I love everything y'all are doing. This takes the cake though. It's impossible to not have problems when you're building complex systems. Being transparent, and willing to teach and explain the mechanics, design decisions, and pitfalls basically doesn't exist outside of your company. Thank you for showing us all the awesome footage of the build from concept-to-completion, including the troubleshooting, lessons learned, headaches, and injuries. Your enthusiasm is infectious, and one day I hope to see some healthy competition to your endeavors.
probably not but this is what lessons learned style "meetings" (yes this is a video not anything traditionally corporate but still) finding out what went bad and what went good and calling it a mistake just means they learned it wasn't the right idea
Every decision we make "makes sense at the time" or we wouldn't make it. Its only with the luxury of hindsight that suddenly everything in the rear view mirror looks like 20/20 vision. Think of all the things we'd change if we could go back in time. Its a process. I liked the reversed axle idea. Nobody knew that it would be a future headache. Good judgement comes from years of bad judgement. Carry on Edison. You got this :)
Resistive load banks still sound like a good backup to have. If you are going downhil and batteries are full (or too warm to accept charge), you could still use the motors in regenerative mode and disipate that potential energy through resistors, instead of using the brakes. I have seen too many trucks in my country that are going 10 mph downhil and blocking everyone for a lifetime 😁
Toyota hybrids use the generator as a motor to spin the gasoline engine without any fuel as a resistance to provide continued braking force once the HV battery is full/too warm. The same could work with a diesel generator provided it has a Jake brake fitted (since diesel engines otherwise don’t provide much engine braking); the e-axles generate electricity as they resist gravity; that electricity spins the generator (which becomes a motor); the motor/generator spins the diesel engine; the Jake brake provides the necessary resistance/load.
@@nkgagne That sounds like a very complicated way to achieve regenerative breaking, to me. What I know is that the breaking power for electric motors is practically the same as when they work in normal mode, which should allow very high and controllable breaking power (hundreds of kilowatts) provided the resistive banks are large enough to disipate that power. This is used in industrial centrifuges as established technology. I really don't know what is the breaking power for Jake breaks on diesel generators, especially since the generator on Topsy is supposed to be specified at lower power than the electric propulsion.
Dude I love this, seeing you take down and critique your own work, the accountability here! Cannot wait to see if you follow through with the user friendliness changes, though if the track record is anything to go by my doubts will be unfounded
Excited to see the next version come to fruition. Also, extremely looking forward to the pickup kits - I definitely see myself investing in a pickup kit in the next 3-5 years.
Aiming for perfection (100%) and it will take far too long and likely never actually get there. Aim for 90% knowing that there MIGHT be 10% that need a fix (though you don't know those 10% until they happen) and you have something to deliver. Lessons learned from experience!
Dual drive motors on the axles is a great plan, the fun part will be calculating the wheel speed differential to the coreapondinding steer wheel angle.
The compressor is probably throwing a fault code because the oil is too thick and the motor can't turn the compressor crankshaft when it's cold. Your choices would be to - #1 Run synthetic or get a compressor that can run with lighter oil (lighter synthetic would be ideal). #2 - Have a heater that will warm up the compressor oil a more usable temperature, -5c or +10c if you really want reliability. You can use a silicone heating blanket. They can be sized between 10 and 400 watts so you can choose one that will warm up the oil in either 30 seconds from -40 or a couple of minutes. Have a temperature sensor and the canbus can control it so if you are driving in cold weather, you can heat it up while driving, before starting it which will reduce wear and increase compressor life.
As a long time software dev it makes me happy that you have a thought about the software you will run in your trucks. Will this software be open-source so that others can build on it?
Hi Between fenders and hood is flat spot that collect water and make rust. I am sure you can find other spot too like doors and widows , frame rails etc . Think about water and ice and mud and leaf and othercjunk that keep the moisture and try eliminate those spot and sharp corner that collect water
I love this trusting your product enough to be open curtains with the consumer and point out the flaws is next level branding you guys deserve all the success you get hopefully soon we can see the renditions of the retro fitted pickups that’s what I’m most excited about
sounds just like a home inspection, all the bad stuff and no good stuff makes it seem like the house is falling apart when in reality it's just a few minor things that need to be fixed in the end. I really like your approach in the video to showcasing all the future decisions that have come out of the problems on the prototype!
The dual motor axles is the big thing even on smaller equipment. Getting down to the smallest number of gear changes improves efficiency quite a bit, and making a 90-detree turn and meshing more gears isn't it. I'd like to see a maximum regen recovery situation and how effective it is at energy recovery. A lot of that, along with the GPS information, will go a long way in optimizing trucking and vehicle routes.
I want to see a time lapse montage of all of the cable/wire/hose/tube management! That'd be soothing as hell. Awesome work, and so happy you made an "Everything Wrong With..." video. Can't wait to see a production version!
Thats one of the hardest aspects of design is accepting even your best laid out ideas may end up not working or the end user absolutely hates it. Its a tough pill to swallow but if you can the product at the other end is usually worth its weight in gold.
You should make your own rack buss system with fixed connections so that changing or upgrading only requires a short cable from a unit to your racking not replacing wiring in the truck because a component becomes unavalible it also means less cost as you can have the wiring made as a production unit.
Hi all from tumbleweed transport . I would highly recomend air link to replace rubber block, diid this conversation on my 74 KW doing heavy haul & logging , keeping your walkjng beams,I give it a no 1 rating. Made in Nisku AB.raydan
Being transparent about any potential problems…. Invokes ideas from viewers and possibly solutions that can be integrated into finding solutions…. This is why I like these guys ….
Thanks for taking us along on the ride. Product development is always an "interesting" exercise, and your "product" is both innovative and complicated, so having to resolve a few issues along the way is to be expected. The step up from Carl to Topsy has been huge... Looking forward to the next truck!
You ever think about load monitoring such as when the axles start regenerative braking at at set time the engine idles down to minimal energy production and or automatically breaks charge to batteries to reduce fuel and possible over charging batteries, the reason I'm mentioning this is I've gone down numerous mountain passes where you had to have your Jake brake roaring and no more than 30 mph going down hill. And it sometimes to 20 minutes to get to the bottom with all the sharp s bends. This could also help in traffic jams also to stop over charging.
I love what you all are doing. I've been following along since the very early TikTok days when Edison Motors was just a funny idea. Keep up the awesome work. Can't wait to see version 2.0. Would love to get an old Ford Ranger and put one of those retrofit kits in it. Going from a slow 2.3L to 400hp that thing would be a riot. Lol.
Your company is amazing! It's great to see your progress! I'm so excited for a diesel-electric hybrid pickup truck. I've worked in controls design for industrial automation and clean routing is always a challenge. The first time building any kind of machine it ends up looking like a mess, because there simply isn't time to think through everything. To keep a business running, you need to be assembling quickly after parts arrive and getting things to customers. The 2nd and 3rd version always look nicer. You guys have done an amazing job, don't be so hard on yourselves.
This sharing of information is fantastic, the learning is immense. Showing things that need to be changed and done better does not demonstrate failure, rather it is reassuring to potential customers that your minds ore open and you are not in the business of forcing a half baked project onto them! Well done!
Consider the aspect of safety when you relocate power electronic components into the cab. If your electronics are in the headache rack instead of the cab, then you don't have to worry as much about something failing and emitting a lot of nasty-smelling smoke, which then fills the cab and makes safe operation difficult.
Why? Farming tractors don't have so much regen braking use. A series hybrid won't lower your fuel consumption if the plough is in the ground all the time. Machines to use around the yard it makes sense to totally electrify (small loaders for dairy farms etc.).
With electric, you get instant torque at low revs-the muscle there at all times you need, right when you need it. Plus, quieter rides mean no more drone or exahst fumes , Way less heat-which, on non-cabin tractors, is a lifesaver. Seriously, nothing beats not roasting while working in the field. Hes got a short where he show excavators and some other equipment that already are using series hybrid.
12:02 Right to Repair approach in this time that's most wrong (and best) with Topsy. This is top issue in list 😅 because you are fixing problems related to it. It's admirable. You got one more job now, become leader in this and guide others. Some started to follow also it's exciting.
Exposed electrical terminals is an excellent way of reducing customer complaints. By the way you all aren't stealing anything from Tesla as diesel electric hybrid has been around for decades just for some reason no one built it into a semis before. Hell I had this idea 15 years ago before Tesla was so freaking popular just didn't do anything with it, so happy that you all did.
Closing your eyes while TIG welding is relatable. I'm glad to see your trying to keep this truck as "grounded" as possible while making it efficient and effective.
As far as noise goes , I drive a new Pete 579 and it sounds like a wind tunnel , along with dashboard rattle. Without insulation it's difficult to quiet down a class 8 truck. Good luck .
Hey just want to wish all you guys the very best of luck from across The Pond. And while I am biased having been a Scania Master Tech. I can safely tell you those engines are bullet proof. And the backup over there seems to be very good especially as they have built up a great reputation for the off road equipment market. Which does not tolerate failure.
I love the honesty in this entire video! I'm still blow away yall built that in a tent. The individual drive motor set up is going to make off road traction control impressive! your in house coding will help with that! P.S, im glad ive learned something through my years of light duty hybrid repairs, and called the cooling issues with stacking low temp, behind hi temp. :)
I thought you'd have more issues to work out than you did. Also, excellent decision to go with Scania. Caterpillar is a nightmare to get parts from when something breaks and no DPF is icing on the cake.
I’ve always thought this was the way to go. Toyota proved with the Prius that the hybrid is s the way to go with the current state of technology. Great job guys.
The state of technology is moving much faster than you think. Hybrid, especially for cars is sooo old fashioned and in particular the way Toyota implements it. Such a complicated system to get and keep right. And what was true last year is totally out of date today.
@@ramdynebix Toyota's Prius is a series-parallel hybrid. I see the benefit of it and they had the numbers to go out and custom fabricate the parts they needed. It can be more efficient than a series hybrid such as Topsy. For Edison Motor's use case and production volume it didn't make sense.
This semi truck from an electrical perspective is very similar to a factory line. Tons of the components, controllers and concepts are the exact same process that is used all across the world in every factory line imaginable. PLCs, relays, VFDs. I love the concept of it this way because the serviceability is already supported, most of every part is already manufactured now and being used everyday. If you’ve ever thought of joining a trade but didn’t think you had the dexterity to do “dirty work” become an electrical technician, specialize in PLCs and automation. It’s about the cleanest work in the trades right now and is becoming one of the most in demand skilled trades that there is!
"Its had some problems"
My man, Topsy is a prototype, ive had brand new Cat excavators fall apart the first week on the job, you're crushing it
Thanks man!
@@EdisonMotors I live offgrid in northern bc, whereabouts did order those batteries from?
Hasn’t everyone on all kind of machines.
Ive had brand new equipment fail too. Multiple Altec booms. Three with the same problem that almost killed my fiend on the first.
Transparency of this company is truly admirable. Great job integrating the DeBoss Garage "Everything Wrong With.." formula.
I completely agree on both points! 👍🏻
It’s a one off project for now. When truck will be in mass production, then the investors and production starts to cut corners.
@@EduardSLVRU If both these guys keep their hands on the business I believe they'll keep up in quality
As a retired mechanical engineer who paid for college by working in a heavy truck repair shop, I'm blown away by what you guys have accomplished. Everything that you're doing makes so much sense! Says a lot about you that you're willing to share the issues you've had and the solutions you intend to implement. Always enjoy your channel!!!!
It pays off that Edison Motors does what they know best: build a semi truck for lumber hauling. If they from the beginning had aimed for an universal semi truck, they probably had long been lost in lots of different and in many times contradictory requirements.
One word of advice - consider the next "Topsy" you build to be another prototype. You're making major changes to multiple major systems. There will likely be things you discover you did wrong (or could do better) with this iteration as well. Hopefully these changes will be much less significant and you will be able to retrofit them to Topsy2 before deciding it's ready for production.
The more of a thing you build, the more things you learn. 👍
This was the alpha version the next group will be the Beta testers then finally the full production version after that. Once in production there will continue to be changes from time to time as component and vendor changes come about was you roll out as new models😉😁
Fleming yachts does this. They deliver these multi million dollars boats with time tested systems, when a new system (generator, propulsion engine, extra) the owner is cruising the world 365. It gets installed on his boat first.
I'm pretty sure they've mentioned the trucks they have on order are with "friendly" customers, i.e. are willing to work through teething issues with the trucks.
Personally, I'd like the next prototype to be called 'Woody' and make the generator multi-fuel and run off LBP from a wood gas generator and/or a biodigester, to prove that anyone can make the fuel for their vehicles right at home.
Suggestion for the in-cab maintenance panel/cabinets- put it all directly behind the driver, but allow the seat to unlock and swivel 180 to face the cabinets. I'd lay them out where they wrap around the driver when the driver faces them which should make doing a lot of work on the panels more comfortable for the driver/technician. Also, include some sort of built-in battery backup LED lighting system that's separate from the truck's batteries so a driver can see everything if power goes out. Last bit, and it might be a bit obvious, include wiring diagrams (written in plain English) on the interior of the cabinet doors.
@smorefirewoodthe HV stuff is water cooled. The LV stuff doesn't produce enough heat to be a concern.
@@patx35 Also, depending on where you're operating, a little "free heating" in the cab might not be a bad thing (so long as it doesn't cause issues with the electronics).
Shouldn't the passenger seat do that? Driver seat can have air ride
Ideally you shouldnt be spending that much time repairing the truck to need a built in chair
@@ikswotianop fr that'd be like making a fold out bench on your front bumper
Just food for thought.
If the angry pixies in the electrical cabinet get extra angry and start to release magical colourful smoke, you'll need that cabinet to vent outside, not releasing smoke through any cracks, be isolated electrically and have a hard kill switch somewhere safe that the driver can reach near the door.
Fire in the cab is a nightmare even in regular Diesel trucks. Even the paint for the electrical cabinet should be heat resistant.
Also, a big thing that is an issue in the cab is thermal insulation, for winters in the North and summers in the South. Manufacturers usually don't really care about the excessive heat from DPF systems coming in the cab during summers, for example. I saw many drivers complain, but that's not in Canada usually 😅
Also probably a lot of that shit could be a simple pcb. Tradeoff is if you use multi-layer pcb, it's not that repairable. Like at all. If you use one layer pcb, it's not that bad. Especially if there's design documentation for it.
@TheHighborn For the HV obviously you can't. But for the LV they're probably only integrating off the shelf components for repairability, just connecting like industrial automation circuits. Not to mention even some LV systems might be a bit high for "affordable" PCBs.
Creating a new level of complexity certainly isn't necessary or accessible with the scale of production they're projecting for the next few years.
No kidding. When my truck does a Regen, I can shut the heat off in the winter and the cab still gets hotter
Edison is doing what all startups should do, be transparent. Most of your failed startups hide the problems they have till they are too big to overcome. Like Nikola who tried to hide the fact that their prototype didn’t work and had to roll it down hill. I’m always weary of a company that says their prototype is working as planned and has no problems. Edison is doing all the right things for the right reasons and learning how to be one of those great companies everyone respects.
When you guys went through your cab wiring box it reminded me of a conversation with my fleet mechanics about troubleshooting. I come from an IT background. All network equipment has led lights that indicate the status state of the circuit. This would be an amazing upgrade to OTR vehicles to reduce troubleshooting times and identifying faults. Go look at your Wi-Fi router and you will see what I am talking about.
Such a good point. I hope they take this into account.
Or, as my old boss used to say, "everyone likes flashing lights". He designed and built custom, magic electronic 'boxes'. The clients always loved and commented on...the little flashing lights which served, generally, no use lol
In industry, we call them idiot lights for the operator to help in troubleshooting either over phone or radio. A HMI with accurate non jargon descriptors would be awesome too.
Oh yeah. Compare troubleshooting a PLC today with the magnetic controllers of the last century.
I’m not one for government subsidies (Bombardier) but I hope the BC and Canadian governments do what they can to work through any regulatory matters that Edison may run into while also promoting innovation. We need more companies like this in Canada.
I’m not a tree hugger but innovative companies like this help reduce emissions not paper straws.
Hate to burst your bubble, but creating gigantic batteries like this are about as bad as you can get for the environment. The simple fact is, diesel engines are more environmentally friendly than these giant battery packs. SImple fact look it up.
However I'm not against any new forms of transportation. I'm of the belief that our world is strong enough to handle basically anything and everything we could possibly throw at it. How foolish for humans to believe they can actually affect God's creation. Which will all be destroyed one day anyway. Peace ✌️
@frankwilliams4445 hey buddy, it's Diesel-Battery-Electric. You can probably order a straight Diesel-Electric if you didn't want battery...
@@frankwilliams4445 I agree with you about the current battery technology. We are told it is green and eco friendly but is it really? I am more for products that work and people want to buy because they are better. I don’t want government mandates.
@@frankwilliams4445
@@thetrainshop Like I said, I'm not against any new forms of transportation. But when these new forms are mandated by the government under the guise of being "eco-friendly" (which is a massive lie) when in reality it's all about profits and control, THEN I take issue.
Telling the world what went wrong is what separates you from most companies. I love watching the developments!
Thanks for giving us an inside look at the iteritave process. Can't wait for version 2.0.
I can’t wait to see version 2.0
It’s going to be so great
Legends, never wanted a company to succeed more than yours, keep it up guys
“Never missed an overnight part order” is a hell of a claim. Hope they keep it up. 👍
Scania never missing an overnight parts delivery = mind blowing. The availability of a unit plus availability of the parts just can't be overlooked.
The first "everything wrong with" that is not only with the manufacturer, but he is the one bringing up the problem's and already has the solutions on the next model. That is INSANE if you think about it compared to major OEM'S.
So glad to aee you listened to potential customers when it came to things like the cab design, steps, exhaust,etc
Favorite company by far! Ordered some hard hat stickers from yall to show my support when im dropping off equipment on the jobs 👍🏼
Thanks man
@@EdisonMotors over the air updates?
I am never going to buy one of these trucks but I am invested in watching every video!!! I been wanting someone to build something like this for years now and you guys are doing it
A good design is finished not when there's nothing more to add, but when there's nothing left to take away. I'm stoked to see the reduction in components and batteries!
When you guys are wildly successful i hope you get an office with topsy front and center as a display piece. That machine is everything you guys stand for, every nut, bolt, wire, hose deserves to be preserved as a reminder of what pure "fuck it, i'll do it myself" energy is capable of!
Topsy is a great proof of concept for a diy'er 😉
24 seconds in and thinking “Wow, a manufacturer being transparent AND critical of their product’s design and development?” What a novel idea.
so proud this is a Canadian company.
You guys are absolute legends. I wish all companies were as open and transparent and engaging as you guys are. You guys are the Framework Computers of trucks and it's hecking awesome!
As a heavy duty mechanic I’m excited to see these in the field. Thinking about service down the road is such an amazing change of pace! Hoping to see these enter the tandem snowplow space so I can see them! My employer is a HUGE buyer of new more fuel efficient technologies.
if your employer's purchasing dept has anyone you can mention Edison to them to keep an eye on for future purchases. Hell, if the DPF issues have been costing yall as much as most companies just the knowledge they'll be available with a Scania engine that won't require DPF should get the bean counters interested.
@@brunsy1990 I wish it was that simple, it’s a bid process. Every 5 years, for a certain state size govt entity. But because of the tech they might reach out to someone like this. If they were stateside it would be even easier. That’s why we’re stuck with 13 letter manure spreaders we get now!
The enthusiasm is infectious. These guys are learning on the job and thrive with solving problems.
I’m not even a truck driver and I want one haha!! Love the way you’re transparently sharing your journey and we’re all rooting for you!! 🤓🙌🏾
I don’t even have a full licence and I’m invested
Blows my mind that companies make motor and battery controllers for OEM applications but retain proprietary software that you can't access. I've tried small projects using Curtis controllers, and you would think their software access is for the nuclear launch codes!
I love the colab between yall and Rich. Seeing common sense gear heads together is a thing of beauty
@18:57 "Working on excellent code from someone else is harder than working on the worst code that you wrote yourself" - Man, as a coder and systems architect, I felt that one in my bones.
So excited to see the new trucks being built with all these upgrades. That rendering with the Scania engine and the twin seater looked killer 20:22
LOVE The Videos! "Layered like a wiring tiramisu" LOVE THAT! 👌✌
Happy I was able to invest in this round, missed out last time but glad things are going well so far, excited to see where this goes
Do a Topsy cabover version
They shared some render teasers of one
We can do that
@@EdisonMotors that'd be cool and if u can please do a rigid body version like a 6×4 with a lift rear axle for road tripping
With a sleeper in it.
Wouldnt even need to be cabover just cab forward since no transmission no need to be engine forward
if your generator was compact enough it could sit sideways behind the cab saving more frame rail space for more sleeper or customer components
No tilting would be necessary since no engine underneath
No generator under cab would make it easier to service on the cab forward version
Would make the trash truck guys happy because they have cabovers now so cab forward would adapt well
Finally calling Topsy what it is....A prototype! The idea that you were "in production" is just crazy to me as someone who has been doing heavy equipment product development for over 20 years now.
When I do truck wiring I like to change it to a left circuit and a right circuit and do it with breakers so it identifies any problems for you and you need to have a twin seat set-up for training days and orientation days when there must be seating for an inspector in the cab and if you want to sell them in Australia they will have to have seatbelts
Been following for a couple years now, and I love everything y'all are doing. This takes the cake though. It's impossible to not have problems when you're building complex systems. Being transparent, and willing to teach and explain the mechanics, design decisions, and pitfalls basically doesn't exist outside of your company.
Thank you for showing us all the awesome footage of the build from concept-to-completion, including the troubleshooting, lessons learned, headaches, and injuries. Your enthusiasm is infectious, and one day I hope to see some healthy competition to your endeavors.
I love the honesty of Edison motors. The prototype is a fantastic effort. I wish them all the best.
You call the reversed axle a mistake, but would you have gone to the new dual motor axle if not for the headache of making the reversed axle work?
probably not but this is what lessons learned style "meetings" (yes this is a video not anything traditionally corporate but still) finding out what went bad and what went good and calling it a mistake just means they learned it wasn't the right idea
That’s very true. It’s why mistakes and failures on prototypes are a good thing
That still wouldn't fix the other complaint of the unsprung motor weight. Coupled with the suspension, that's probably not ideal still.
Every decision we make "makes sense at the time" or we wouldn't make it. Its only with the luxury of hindsight that suddenly everything in the rear view mirror looks like 20/20 vision. Think of all the things we'd change if we could go back in time. Its a process. I liked the reversed axle idea. Nobody knew that it would be a future headache. Good judgement comes from years of bad judgement.
Carry on Edison. You got this :)
Resistive load banks still sound like a good backup to have. If you are going downhil and batteries are full (or too warm to accept charge), you could still use the motors in regenerative mode and disipate that potential energy through resistors, instead of using the brakes. I have seen too many trucks in my country that are going 10 mph downhil and blocking everyone for a lifetime 😁
Toyota hybrids use the generator as a motor to spin the gasoline engine without any fuel as a resistance to provide continued braking force once the HV battery is full/too warm. The same could work with a diesel generator provided it has a Jake brake fitted (since diesel engines otherwise don’t provide much engine braking); the e-axles generate electricity as they resist gravity; that electricity spins the generator (which becomes a motor); the motor/generator spins the diesel engine; the Jake brake provides the necessary resistance/load.
Afik, they can activate the jake-brake on the engine and spin it with the generator in that case. More programming, but don't need extra parts.
@@nkgagneAFAIK the original engine in Topsy had a Jake Brake that worked exactly as you described.
@@nkgagne That sounds like a very complicated way to achieve regenerative breaking, to me. What I know is that the breaking power for electric motors is practically the same as when they work in normal mode, which should allow very high and controllable breaking power (hundreds of kilowatts) provided the resistive banks are large enough to disipate that power. This is used in industrial centrifuges as established technology. I really don't know what is the breaking power for Jake breaks on diesel generators, especially since the generator on Topsy is supposed to be specified at lower power than the electric propulsion.
@@juiceofsapho They said that when the battery is full and you are still on the Regen... the power has to go somewhere.
Dude I love this, seeing you take down and critique your own work, the accountability here! Cannot wait to see if you follow through with the user friendliness changes, though if the track record is anything to go by my doubts will be unfounded
We do really listen to all the feedback
@@EdisonMotors Thats why when l buy an old semi Im gonna make sure I can get an Edison Kit for it! Love y’all keep fighting the good fight l!
Excited to see the next version come to fruition. Also, extremely looking forward to the pickup kits - I definitely see myself investing in a pickup kit in the next 3-5 years.
Aiming for perfection (100%) and it will take far too long and likely never actually get there. Aim for 90% knowing that there MIGHT be 10% that need a fix (though you don't know those 10% until they happen) and you have something to deliver. Lessons learned from experience!
Aim for 100 %, accept 95 %
Love to see hard working folks with integrity getting it done
Dual drive motors on the axles is a great plan, the fun part will be calculating the wheel speed differential to the coreapondinding steer wheel angle.
These trucks are the future of trucking. Well done. Can't wait to see the new trucks
Best video you've done yet! Watching two guys who understand real time usage, and not speaking engineering nonsense is refreshing. Keep it coming!
The compressor is probably throwing a fault code because the oil is too thick and the motor can't turn the compressor crankshaft when it's cold. Your choices would be to - #1 Run synthetic or get a compressor that can run with lighter oil (lighter synthetic would be ideal). #2 - Have a heater that will warm up the compressor oil a more usable temperature, -5c or +10c if you really want reliability. You can use a silicone heating blanket. They can be sized between 10 and 400 watts so you can choose one that will warm up the oil in either 30 seconds from -40 or a couple of minutes. Have a temperature sensor and the canbus can control it so if you are driving in cold weather, you can heat it up while driving, before starting it which will reduce wear and increase compressor life.
As a long time software dev it makes me happy that you have a thought about the software you will run in your trucks. Will this software be open-source so that others can build on it?
Hi
Between fenders and hood is flat spot that collect water and make rust. I am sure you can find other spot too like doors and widows , frame rails etc . Think about water and ice and mud and leaf and othercjunk that keep the moisture and try eliminate those spot and sharp corner that collect water
Get-er-done boys.You 're on the right track.
I love this trusting your product enough to be open curtains with the consumer and point out the flaws is next level branding you guys deserve all the success you get hopefully soon we can see the renditions of the retro fitted pickups that’s what I’m most excited about
At some point, you should go to lecture at some universities, the students need your help. Love what you’re doing all the way from Quebec.😊
I can’t believe you guys are this far ahead already, I can’t wait to see the next truck
"working on excellent code that someone else wrote ..."
OMG TRUER WORDS WERE NEVER SPOKEN.
sounds just like a home inspection, all the bad stuff and no good stuff makes it seem like the house is falling apart when in reality it's just a few minor things that need to be fixed in the end. I really like your approach in the video to showcasing all the future decisions that have come out of the problems on the prototype!
Topsy is duck tape, and super glue, and it works. The next version is going to be really nice. I can’t wait to see more.
The dual motor axles is the big thing even on smaller equipment. Getting down to the smallest number of gear changes improves efficiency quite a bit, and making a 90-detree turn and meshing more gears isn't it. I'd like to see a maximum regen recovery situation and how effective it is at energy recovery. A lot of that, along with the GPS information, will go a long way in optimizing trucking and vehicle routes.
You guys are crushing this. Always excited to see the next step in the adventure. Thanks y'all!
I can't wait to see the next iteration. The renderings I saw on Reddit looked so cool.
I want to see a time lapse montage of all of the cable/wire/hose/tube management! That'd be soothing as hell. Awesome work, and so happy you made an "Everything Wrong With..." video. Can't wait to see a production version!
Thats one of the hardest aspects of design is accepting even your best laid out ideas may end up not working or the end user absolutely hates it. Its a tough pill to swallow but if you can the product at the other end is usually worth its weight in gold.
Interesting breakdown of some of the development challenges. Thanks for keeping us all up to date !!!
Lots of knowledge (and common sense) with these 2 guys.
Really enjoying watching the build process. Can't wait to see the new trucks.
You should make your own rack buss system with fixed connections so that changing or upgrading only requires a short cable from a unit to your racking not replacing wiring in the truck because a component becomes unavalible it also means less cost as you can have the wiring made as a production unit.
I'm excited to see these trucks progress
Hi all from tumbleweed transport . I would highly recomend air link to replace rubber block, diid this conversation on my 74 KW doing heavy haul & logging , keeping your walkjng beams,I give it a no 1 rating. Made in Nisku AB.raydan
Being transparent about any potential problems…. Invokes ideas from viewers and possibly solutions that can be integrated into finding solutions…. This is why I like these guys ….
Thanks for taking us along on the ride. Product development is always an "interesting" exercise, and your "product" is both innovative and complicated, so having to resolve a few issues along the way is to be expected.
The step up from Carl to Topsy has been huge... Looking forward to the next truck!
You ever think about load monitoring such as when the axles start regenerative braking at at set time the engine idles down to minimal energy production and or automatically breaks charge to batteries to reduce fuel and possible over charging batteries, the reason I'm mentioning this is I've gone down numerous mountain passes where you had to have your Jake brake roaring and no more than 30 mph going down hill. And it sometimes to 20 minutes to get to the bottom with all the sharp s bends. This could also help in traffic jams also to stop over charging.
I love what you all are doing. I've been following along since the very early TikTok days when Edison Motors was just a funny idea. Keep up the awesome work. Can't wait to see version 2.0.
Would love to get an old Ford Ranger and put one of those retrofit kits in it. Going from a slow 2.3L to 400hp that thing would be a riot. Lol.
Good onya guys, Absolutely love the whole concept and I can't wait to be able to order a truck and a ute kit for Australia. Keep it up.
Your company is amazing! It's great to see your progress! I'm so excited for a diesel-electric hybrid pickup truck. I've worked in controls design for industrial automation and clean routing is always a challenge. The first time building any kind of machine it ends up looking like a mess, because there simply isn't time to think through everything. To keep a business running, you need to be assembling quickly after parts arrive and getting things to customers. The 2nd and 3rd version always look nicer. You guys have done an amazing job, don't be so hard on yourselves.
20:00 love to hear it guys!!!
Time to build this new truck and get some more testing!
Wow… Rich DeBoss is this deep in!? This thing is gonna rock, looking forward to the future.
This sharing of information is fantastic, the learning is immense. Showing things that need to be changed and done better does not demonstrate failure, rather it is reassuring to potential customers that your minds ore open and you are not in the business of forcing a half baked project onto them! Well done!
Dude, I'm tellin' ya, Lithium-Sulfur batteries are going to be a game changer for you guys!
Consider the aspect of safety when you relocate power electronic components into the cab. If your electronics are in the headache rack instead of the cab, then you don't have to worry as much about something failing and emitting a lot of nasty-smelling smoke, which then fills the cab and makes safe operation difficult.
Probably easy enough to seal the fire rated compartment so smoke does not fill the cab
You and your team are simply amazing.
Should add a plug on the trucks to run a mod shack or site office.
Love the transparency! You are in good company of other startups doing great things in the open such as Hill Helicopters and Oxide Computer.
Good to see the work coming the farming industry needs your help.
So many tractors that could use your ideas.
Why? Farming tractors don't have so much regen braking use. A series hybrid won't lower your fuel consumption if the plough is in the ground all the time. Machines to use around the yard it makes sense to totally electrify (small loaders for dairy farms etc.).
With electric, you get instant torque at low revs-the muscle there at all times you need, right when you need it. Plus, quieter rides mean no more drone or exahst fumes , Way less heat-which, on non-cabin tractors, is a lifesaver. Seriously, nothing beats not roasting while working in the field.
Hes got a short where he show excavators and some other equipment that already are using series hybrid.
12:02 Right to Repair approach in this time that's most wrong (and best) with Topsy. This is top issue in list 😅 because you are fixing problems related to it. It's admirable. You got one more job now, become leader in this and guide others. Some started to follow also it's exciting.
Exposed electrical terminals is an excellent way of reducing customer complaints. By the way you all aren't stealing anything from Tesla as diesel electric hybrid has been around for decades just for some reason no one built it into a semis before. Hell I had this idea 15 years ago before Tesla was so freaking popular just didn't do anything with it, so happy that you all did.
Excellent presentation. Thank you.
Closing your eyes while TIG welding is relatable. I'm glad to see your trying to keep this truck as "grounded" as possible while making it efficient and effective.
You guys are awesome and this was a great video. Thanks for sharing all your progress and behind the scenes.
As far as noise goes , I drive a new Pete 579 and it sounds like a wind tunnel , along with dashboard rattle. Without insulation it's difficult to quiet down a class 8 truck. Good luck .
can't wait to see revised prototype
You have to pipe in some engine sounds from the speakers so you don't hear the squeaks. 😅
Hey just want to wish all you guys the very best of luck from across The Pond. And while I am biased having been a Scania Master Tech. I can safely tell you those engines are bullet proof. And the backup over there seems to be very good especially as they have built up a great reputation for the off road equipment market. Which does not tolerate failure.
I am just incredibly excited for Topsy V2
I love the honesty in this entire video! I'm still blow away yall built that in a tent. The individual drive motor set up is going to make off road traction control impressive! your in house coding will help with that!
P.S, im glad ive learned something through my years of light duty hybrid repairs, and called the cooling issues with stacking low temp, behind hi temp. :)
The TCU issue is why Tesla does their own programing and vertically integrates as possable.
I thought you'd have more issues to work out than you did. Also, excellent decision to go with Scania. Caterpillar is a nightmare to get parts from when something breaks and no DPF is icing on the cake.
I’ve always thought this was the way to go. Toyota proved with the Prius that the hybrid is s the way to go with the current state of technology. Great job guys.
The state of technology is moving much faster than you think. Hybrid, especially for cars is sooo old fashioned and in particular the way Toyota implements it. Such a complicated system to get and keep right. And what was true last year is totally out of date today.
@@ramdynebix Toyota's Prius is a series-parallel hybrid. I see the benefit of it and they had the numbers to go out and custom fabricate the parts they needed. It can be more efficient than a series hybrid such as Topsy. For Edison Motor's use case and production volume it didn't make sense.
Had you thought about using modern Ethernet T1S instead of CAN bus? It allows you some interesting designs and can be chained as CAN.
This semi truck from an electrical perspective is very similar to a factory line. Tons of the components, controllers and concepts are the exact same process that is used all across the world in every factory line imaginable. PLCs, relays, VFDs. I love the concept of it this way because the serviceability is already supported, most of every part is already manufactured now and being used everyday.
If you’ve ever thought of joining a trade but didn’t think you had the dexterity to do “dirty work” become an electrical technician, specialize in PLCs and automation. It’s about the cleanest work in the trades right now and is becoming one of the most in demand skilled trades that there is!