UFR #32 - Discussing P-Bean's "The Modern Hero Shooter" w/ Zesty Jesus & SpaceGuyOnline
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ต.ค. 2024
- What even is a "hero shooter"?
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Video covered: • The Modern "Hero Shooter" - @P-Bean
Featured guests: @ZestyJesus @SpaceGuyOnline
Disclaimer: UFR is a show about sharing ideas and criticisms about art, media, and content. As such, there will be a variety of different backgrounds, opinions, and perspectives presented through the people featured on the show. The views of individuals on the show are not necessarily shared by the show's creators, other guests featured on the show, or any other person related to UFR. The perspectives proposed during the show, as well as off air, should be confined to the individual sharing those views and not be projected upon the show's creators. Thank you for your consideration, and we hope you enjoy the conversation.
Tags:
upon further review, lucid letters, lucid, tf2, team fortress, lucid video essay, podcast, lucid dreaming, lucid letters, lucid, tf2, team fortress, team fortress 2, team fortress two, team fotrees 2, tem fortress two, team fort two, tg2, taem fortress 2, team fortre too, overwatch, overwatch pve, mvm, mann vs machine, overwatch two, overwatch 2 fortress 2, team fortress two, team fotrees 2, tem fortress two, team fort two, tg2, taem fortress 2, team fortre too, overwatch, overwatch pve, mvm, mann vs machine, overwatch two, overwatch 2, fortnite, overwatch 2 pve, origins easter egg, video game easter egg, easter egg, tf2 summer update, deep rock galactic, minecraft, antvenom, minecraft tutorial, how to, anarchy, 2b2t, monopoly
Look ma! I'm on TV!
We could refine Lucid's hair grease into rocket fuel
This comment has changed my life. Sincerely, thank you. I must change this as soon as possible.
all they had to do for this minecraft movie was make it purely about jack black as steve gradually going insane alone in a singleplayer minecraft world talking to villagers and shit
Jack black steve going insane because he can't make villager farms
That's been done before in the minecraft novel "The Island." Ironically enough, Jack Black does the audiobook narration.
@@infinitydragonoid2655 holy shit, so they could have just adapted that!
just do fallen kingdom
1:00 Everytime Alan is silent he lifts
The tier list made me realize that Richter is fucking wrong. SpaceGuy is the most racial TF2ber.
god I could listen to Zesty talking about paint dry for hours
Petition to UFR cast play Garden Warfare 2
More Tf2 players should be aware of this amazing hidden gem
Yes, but they must also eventually play Battlefield 1.
id say gardenwarfare 1 cuz its op mode is way better
I think cosmetics in TF2 do actually affect the depth of gameplay, just not in the way that's it's normally understood.
There's a psychology with the way you interact with certain players and enemies in TF2 depending on what kind of comsetics they have. Say you are playing a normal game, and you either keep coming across the same enemy such that either you dominate him or he dominates you. Through repetition of this you start to build a disposition towards this person, either of respect, malice, or joy, at the very moment you come across the particular set of cosmetics you have. And as a result, will vary your playstyle accordingly with that person. I think this even goes for the psychology of playing spy and who you can reasonably backstab or not; if some F2P heavy playing the game on no audio willingly gives you his back to him, you'll instantly notice it is THAT F2P because of either having no cosmetics or the most bargain bin ones that any F2P can nab.
I notice this when I play the 100 player Shounic servers, where they have to remove cosmetics in order to keep the item limit from crashing the server. Through playing through the game, unless the person you're fighting has a very peculiar name or a very odd choice of items for their loadout, a lot of that disposition and psychology is lost in the sea of other mercenaries who vaguely look and ACT the same.
So i do believe that cosmetics do add 'depth' to the game, just as you guys clarified, not in a mechanical sort. But it most definitely affects the psychology of the players you are playing against.
my favorite podcast
Lucid talks like someone who hasnt ever built a house in minecraft that wasnt a hole in the ground
25:18 I got you Zesty, I played Sonic Advance 3, and yes, Knuckles and Tails (in that order) was busted.
1:58:50 there could be a better analogy: imagine, that you want to draw a painting, and you have 2 options of paint to choose: you can choose to have 100 colours with 90 of them being shades of green, but at the expense of other 10 colours being bleak, or have 10 rich different colours. The second choice is better, because if you really want - you can mix up them however you want, to point where you satisfied with colours
It’s hard for me to blame Overwatch knowing Valve was the one who pioneered the practices you see in the modern Games industry, but when People and companies (and Essayist) treat it as a zenith, that’s where I find my reason to blame it. As someone who’s been developing and doing research on this sub-genre since the end of 2021 I can say that I tire of those who lump the two genres together only to glaze over the importance and history of said genres. I can also say that the Hero Shooter (MOBA-lite shooter) is not as diverse as people make it out to be, like sure I’ll put Battleborn in despite it actually being a first-person MOBA, but Gigantic and Deadlock (Paragon too) are Third-person/ action MOBAs with guns, etc. The comparison issue exists because Overwatch having a varied roster of colorful, relatable characters made billions and other companies poorly implementing its design philosophies for a cut of the profit. The market is just flooded with big roster/ cast games at the moment and it’s not exclusive to just shooters. I feel as if P-Bean made this video as a “here’s my opinion on the Hero Shooter Fatigue statement,” but I cannot blame him as there’s been six-ish Hero Shooters to release/ come out this year (Concord, Marvel Rivals, Fragpunk, Wild Assault, and two other ones I forgot the name of). I can’t blame him or anyone else for believing this.
As a bit of a side note: if you plan to do a CBS or any game with a class system, a large roster is possible but requires a lot more thought when it comes to gameplay, etc. Be prepared to put the project on hold for redesigns as it’s what I’ve done for about two years now.
Ps: one other difference between the two genres is roster consistency: CBSs have teams that are all coherent and easy to read into; Hero Shooters have a bunch of Glup Shittos who might be easy to read, but look like the guy on your team with a red outline.
Hey Lucid, I have a genuine question. Idk if you will answer anyways.
Do you think adding characters to a Hero Shooter (Class Base shooter) is the same like adding more characters in a Fighting Game?
Looks like they could be correlated, beacuse they could serve similar mechanics
You guys forgot how the card system in Paladins works, so here's the reminder:
each character has its own set of cards to pick from
you can pick 5 cards and add levels to the selected cards
there is a shared pool of levels you can add to all cards in total
card upgrading is free and straightforward
3:07:00 I wanna mention that Neon Prime started to turn into Deadlock at around the end of 2022. In June 2023 it already went full steam towards Deadlock. Although they originally went with the name "Shadowline"
You guys should cover Gabber's video on the TF2 Sniper arguing that the class is fine as it is.
If Zesty things that Deadlock is catered to the Asian market then he doesn't want to know how Neon Prime (older version of the same game) used to look like
54:00 thats pyro vision
You're supposed to be a hero, Bryan
Yeah I'm beginning to like that
now that's what i call an objectively wrong overwatch tier list
re: depth, TF2 would be "deeper" with more weapons and Minecraft would be "deeper" with more blocks, but you'll hit rock bottom (ha ha) with TF2 much faster than with Minecraft. you can only go so deep before diminishing returns of some kind.
I picked and main soldier primary because he's racist
820-ish blocks in minecraft
I know how they can fix the Minecraft movie without changing anything aesthetically. Just lean into the fact that Minecraft could be described as a child-friendly survival horror game and write it as such, and suddenly the animals looking so disturbing seems appropriate. But the fact that it almost certainly isn’t going in that direction shows how badly they have screwed up.
2:25:33 I agree with Zesty 99.9%. But then why are games like Cruelty Squad popular? Maybe because people want to feel different? I personally really like a game named LOEK, cuz its fun as hell. But the visuals are HORRIBLE. I would love to hear a response to that.
I always found hero shooters to just be shooters but everyone has a bunch of cooldowns for some reason.
I honestly, i kinda hate it when people talk about genres. They always try to over complicate it the definitions. A hero shooter is "a shooter with a cast of characters with defined kits," while many games offer small modifications to these kits, but the abilities remain the same every time to preserve the idea of the character. The class-based shooter has classes that are ideas with selectable options that fit into the idea of that class to create its kit. saying that its based off roles is stupid as even in tf2, the classes can have many roles based on how you play, and the available pool of roles changes based on loadout, also hero shooters have the same roles as class based so how do roles make them differen? Im sorry, Zesty, vanilla, stock tf2 is a hero shooter, and that's the word you have to live in.
is starcraft a hero shooter since all the units have their own personalities and quirks and most of them shoot things?
Alberto Turnpike
3:23:11
What is your problem with french?
Passing through the "minecraft blocks adding depth" bit of the stream (2 hours in)
If memory serves, don't Ocelots scare away creepers, while the normal village cats don't?
Mojang is dumb
What if it was SpaceGuyOffline
Metroid being a Looter Shooter is pretty wack. Anyways, my favorite Metroidvania by definition is Dark Souls I.
Agreed. Looters Shooters have a distinct "number go up" trait that Metroid doesn't have (no, missile expansions and energy tanks are not the same). Metroid's "loot" expands your kit with every upgrade, Borderlands just make your gun do 20 more damage per shot.
Disappointed there wasn't a deeper discussion on concord. It feels indicative of how Deadlock will turn out if volvo doesn't learn from that release. Same genre, similar sludge gameplay.
What are you talking about? Deadlock is very moba in it's design and gameplay. Concord doesn't even have lanes or upgrades. It's much more like overwatch.
Well, i mean... What you can say about this game? Its so bad, but in a very boring way, that its not worth even discussing it
Deadlock already passed the R34 test with the gargoyle girl so it's guaranteed to be a success
mobas are traaaash, overrated genre. single player games are much better and more relaxing.
Is it overrated? All I see is people shitting on it whenever it's brought up.
@@infinitydragonoid2655 is the worse, most frustrating and addictive type of game in existence. stay away.
deadlock is sick though
Agreed, single player and PvE co-op games are all I play. TF2 is the only PvP game I still play (and love) since it’s fun and casual instead of a sweatfest
Despite having double digits into Deadlock. I still don't get the popularity of conventional Mobas. I feel like that genre is too nerdy and too lame for me.
Idk why Lucid have to time every conversation?
i like deadlock
It sure is a game that valve is working on
It's a fun game and TF2ubers feeling like they need to hate Deadlock is cringe, just look through the comments on SpaceGuyOnline's Deadlock video and you'll see most people think the game is fun and the hate feels forced.
@@deannotcool Both sides are kinda wrong in cringe I find. On the one side you have people like Zesty and Emplemon who haven't played the game at all and are simply judging it off it's appearence and hating it solely off of that creating a wave of negativty and hate despite never playing it, in response to that you have the people who play Deadlock who seemingly see any critque or criticsm of an unfinished game and lump it together with those outward crowds of people.
I had genuinely fun moments playing Deadlock however they were signficantly bogged down by 99 unfun, frustrating ones prior (This was also during the "Balance Hell" time when most characters kits were overtuned and designed to kill anyone from full health without really needing to buy or build anything... looking at Paradox...) I don't think anyone can truthfully defend the sheer amount and power stuns have in Deadlock espescially since the recent tournament that was held nearly exclusively banned characters like Dynamo and Kelvin constantly, characters who are solely designed around stunning and shutting down enemies. The argument of "Buy defensive items to reduce stuns" doesn't work as an actual solution to stuns, it's more of a band-aid fix. This is also made worse when the inverse could be said of "Buy items that make stuns even better." The sheer amount of CC and such was one of my biggest turn offs of the game espescially since it seemed to work entirely against the whole movement aspect of the game they're trying to push as well.
The problem comes in that, even though this is legitmate critcism of the game that's actually decently backed up, it just gets clumped in with pointless negativity surronding the game as "cope." In game this leads to a massive cognitive dissonance where everyone internally believes something to be problematic but they can't actually speak against it incase of pissing off the crowd. Seven is a great example of this, people were being kicked and reported in game because they thought Seven was a bit too strong in both the forums/discord, it was seen and clumped in as pure negativity bias rather than an unfinished game having unfinished balancing... Seven has the highest winrate and pick selection in the game currently.
It genuinely feels like American politics, it's either black or white, against it fully or with it fully, no in-between.
@SpaceGuyOnline Seven is probably going to be in the weirdest spot for deadlock ngl. His win rate is insanely high for all skill ceilings, and it's definitely going to be hard to balance him without destroying him.
While the game does encourage strategy and teamwork in mid/late game. A good or bad Seven can make all the difference in a game.
I hope he gets a better balance so teammates don't heavily rely on Seven's performance.
@@jojobizadTRASH Think what makes Seven so strong or at least a major part of it is just how versatile he is. He's only of the strongest characters solo but all his abilities work better the more targets there are.
(I can't recall the ability names)
His tesla buff that allows him to hit multiple enemies makes him great for clearing lanes and hitting multiple enemy heros, combine that with spirit lifesteal and Seven dominates early game lane securing
His electroball is great for attacking enemies in cover as the size of it essentially makes it a grenade, similarly it's great for catching people who are retreating as it limits their path and of course slows them down.... also massive lifesteal potential again.
His stun is the weakest part of his kit I find, it's good for securing kills here or there primarily because it's hard to notice if you're actually in it or not and once upgraded becomes a game changer allowing you to stun multiple people.
Finally his ult... it's fucking stupid. People argue it's not that good from the concept of "Don't be in it" which is some "Homeless people should by homes" level of defence.
There's fundamentally no bad time to use it, either it gets enemies of Seven if he's in a bad spot, wipes an entire lane or camp for farming or wipes out several enemies at once because they got pushed against him or were in a team fight. Very easy to make a build that makes him impossible to kill or shut down during his ult especially in the mid-early game.
Like they made a character designed around crowd control, equally strong if there is no crowd.
this podcast would be 50 million times better if it was only zesty
this podcast would be 50 billion times better if it was only alan
no, not really
@@No-ut1dnWE AGREE
Hasan podcast
🪑
51:58 I think Unreal Tournament is better than Quake 3 tbh, I'm surprised it wasn't brought up once during the entire podcast