INSTALL: Watts Hot Water Recirculation Pump - Instant Hot Water
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ค. 2024
- How to get INSTANT hot water without needing to install a tankless water heater. Lower cost, easy to install, no new electrical wires. Watts 500800 hot water recirculation pump.
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According to various sources, the average household wastes between 10,000 and 20,000 gallons of water per year, just waiting on the hot water to flow through the pipes.
That's almost 40 years of drinking water for one person. And since I've lived in desert states for the past 30 years, it's in my brain to believe that just pouring water down the drain is a bad idea.
So to help save water, my affordable DIY solution is to install a hot water recirculating pump. This solution requires no new plumbing in your home, which makes this perfect for the DIY guy or gal.
Oh, and that $20 per year is if you leave the pump running all the time. I want this connected into my smart home through my Wink Hub .
Once I synced this into my Wink hub, I was able to create a series of triggers that are tied to motion sensors around my automation. When the desired motion sensors detect motion, they start the pump.
After the last motion sensor stops detecting motion, the pump shuts down after about 30 minutes.
One is that it allows me to save even more energy by not running the pump when it's not needed.
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DIY Smart Home Guy creates how-to videos for smart home automation centered around Z-Wave and Zigbee devices. Review videos are generally centered around Hubitat Elevation, SmartThings and Vera. I personally run Hubitat as my primary smart hub, however I do test products on the hubs mentioned. I understand that a home automation hub is not a path for everyone. I chose this path because I am a firm believer is advanced automation and local control.
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Really helpful. I wasn't sold on the Watts product until I saw your video. I will probably use IFTTT.
Thanks to this great video I installed this system in my house a month ago and it is impressive how well it works. I use a Hubitat smart hub to control the system and I power the Watts pump from a Zooz Zen15 Power Switch (120v) and used Zooz ZSE18 motion sensors in each room where I need hot water. I have a branch loop supplying hot water to the master bath so I installed an extra Watts sensor valve and Zoose motion sensor in there. My wife loves it! Thanks, John!
Very important point. Due to using the closed loop system within the hot/cold water plumbings, it is very important that the water heater is clean because you will be drinking from it. This hot water will be circulated within your potable water system as well. All the sediments, corrosion, calcium deposits, rotten egg smell (if any) will be part of your drinking water. I would flush the water heater at least twice a year and change the anode rod every year if you have a recirculating pump.
Sounds like advice generated from experience! Thanks for sharing.
These re-circulating pumps has been around for decades. I planned on installing one, but thought of this issue. I'm surprised that there has not been any mention on the health hazard especially for those that rarely flush their water heater.
This is great! Love the added automation. I also have motion detectors already set up.
Hi Robert Hawryluk,
Thanks for the kind words. I'm always happy to hear that the content is helpful. Cheers
Good video and review. I’ve had this pump in three different homes and liked it every time. The one important caveat is to leave the pump running on your schedule, even if you leave for a few days. The pump uses water for cooling. We had hard water in Albuquerque. Left for a month and in-lugged the pump to save energy (bad idea, because the power saving was too small). The pump froze due to the minerals in the hard water causing the pump bearing to freeze and ruin the pump. I was disappointed that there was no caution to leave the pump running in a hard water area. Other than that, it does work well, as explained in the video.
Hi Vic B, thanks for the feedback. Additional clarity is always appreciated. Cheers
Really enjoyed your video! We had this installed by a plumber a few years ago. Around a month ago something went wrong and we now have to wait again for hot water. I made sure the timer was set properly, and even set up a wifi smart plug so that I can just turn on the pump from my phone a few minutes before hopping into the shower (with the timer set to "on"). Still didn't work. Any idea how to troubleshoot this, before I call a plumber in defeat?
Hi. Thank you for the video. What are you using now that Stringify is shut down?
I think there may be some confusion here on one thing. Regardless whether you use motion sensors that trigger the pump for several hours, or use the built-in timer to turn on the pump for several hours, I don't think the pump is actually running the entire time, circulating water.
I believe there is a thermostat that will turn the pump off once a certain heat temp is reached. Maybe only certain models have it. Or maybe I'm really confused. LOL
Does your pump run and circulate water the entire time the triggers are activated, say several hours for example? Or does it just turn on a few times to keep the water hot when needed?
Great video!
I connected the pump a day before I installed the little circulating piece. Do you think I did any damage to the pump considering the water wasn't circulating through the pipes?
Would love to do a steam sauna with this! Do you think it would perform close to those Steam Generator Kits (ex Mr. Steam / EliteSteam which say 220V, 6kW, 7.5kW , 9kW)? Or would the temperature of a 32000 BTU tank never get that hot?
Also, how does the Stringify connect/control the pump? And if you don't have the app/automation, how can the pump be activated without manually going and adjusting the timer?
How long do you run the pump when the occupancy sensor is on? What about connecting to alexa to say shower and the pump turns on for 5 mins?
The one thing I continue to not quite understand is how hot water will be immediately available at all my faucets/showers, etc by putting the one check valve on the sink at the furthermost run from the water heater. It would seem that there would still be some branches/legs of pipe to the other faucets/showers that still would have some cool water in them, and that really only the sink with the check valve is the "immediately available" sink. I have a two-story house, 4 bathrooms, kitchen, etc, spread out over 4600 sq ft. Will I really get hot water immediately at every faucet/shower in the house?
John - Great vid and exactly what I was hoping to find. I'm about to do this exact thing but I will have 2 manifolds for separate ends of the house. Just a few quick questions: Once the water is warm to the valve the manifold shuts off. If the recirc pump is still running does this cause damage to the pump? Does it use power while it's trying to pump but can't because the manifold(s) are closed? Also I'm considering shutting off the pump if there is no motion immediately - because if there was motion the water should already be hot to the faucet, and if no motion no need for hot water. My system only needs to recirc about 2 gallons on each end to have hot water to the faucets. Also I have both Insteon / Stringify and Samsung Smart Home to choose from. Considering IFTTT. Any pointers are appreciated.
I was worried about that too and ended up enforcing a duty cycle for the pump. I installed motion sensors in the two farthest bathrooms. For the scenes (Vera), I configured it so that motion from either bathrooms would run the pump for 15mins(trial and error) set up a timer to not allow the pump to start again until 15mins has passed. This has worked out well for me; I just have to do something else for ~15mins before getting in the shower.
Great idea John and good job explaining everything as usual! Hadn't even thought about this, but I agree I hate waiting for hot water and wasting water. Definitely putting this in my smart home soon.
One thing to note though, this will only work on older piping where there is only one main supply line daisy chained to all faucets/showers. I have been looking to buy a new home recently and have noticed that in new construction they are usually using a new method of a more distributed hot water supply. They are using this skinny flexible tubing and running that from one distribution point to all faucets separately. Not sure if this is a nationwide trend, but certainly seems to me in my area.
Sounds like a PEX style Manifold System.. they are everywhere. I would definitely like to hear from homeowners that used these add-on WATTS style 'pump' circulators in their Manifold type homes. Looking on the www you find a lot of angry industrymen yelling at you for asking the question and pointing out the I-Told-You-So, *proper* 'Return Line Circulation System' that should be installed instead.
Awesome man. Thx.
Very nice idea. I tackled the same issue differently. I installed small 5l undesink water heater (on the hot water line) under the kitchen tap. It was simpler solution for me as I only have kitchen far away from main hot water tank. (Heater is in the bathroom and bathroom taps are close anough)
Smart. Does the pump have thermostat? Or only the timer?
I've been looking into doing this as it takes a long time to get hot water to the master bedroom in my new house. I like the idea of using the smart outlet instead of the mechanical timer. The only motion sensors I have in the house are for the Ecobee4 so I'd most likely use schedules in Wink and Alexa to turn it on as needed.
If you have a fairly regular schedule of needing hot water, the Watts pump has a built-in timer.
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Great video! Looking at this on Amazon - it looks like about 20% of the users see the sensor valves on the units fail within a couple years. Anyone have any longer term experience they can share?
Silly question but what happens if the pump is pumping hot water through (using the cold water line) and you turn on the cold water faucet (at that farthest sink) to wash your hands? Does the pump shut off or water get pushed in the other direction? Maybe I am misunderstanding something somewhere. Thx
Will it do same for baseboard heating??
how does that work with a tank-less water heater?
Did your research happen to make you aware of the fact that the initial approval of these systems, had to consider the obvious cross connect between potable cold water and the questionable potability of the hot water. i.e. Water that has gone through a water heater tank, has likely picked up impurities within the storage tank.
In fact, I think the feds had some negative comments on this type of system but it got approved somehow, anyway.
Just some food for thought.
How did you get the timer on strinify
I bypassed the timer and put in relay connected to light above tub and shower to run 3 minuets, in our furthest bathroom. No need for pump to run when not home or on irregular usage hours.
Hi lostwithnikki, Glad everything worked out. Thanks for watching! Cheers
Very informative video. If no electricity, will the Watts circ and far away valve allow for conventional (old style) hot water flow ?
Thanks for the video. This was great. And if we are quarantined even longer I’m gonna look into the smart plug option. Pretty smart. No pun intended. But I do have a question, I got the same model and the instructions say to drain the hot water heater. That’s a lot of gallons to install something that is only at the top. Is it really necessary? I get turning off the gas and killing the breaker but draining a whole water heater seems a little excessive. Thoughts?
DIY Smart Home Guy DIY Smart Home Guy Thanks! I got it installed today and works like a charm. Quick question though, I now understand, thanks to your diagram, on how it works when the pump turns on. But if the pump is on and the actuator (is that the correct term) in the plastic piece under the sink closes while the pump is on, where does the pumped water go? There is now a closed loop with a pump going. Does the pump recognize that there is resistance and disengages? Just was curious if you knew about that part of it. Thanks...and man, this is great! I timed the water at the kitchen and it took 1m45sec to reach 104 degrees prior to the pump. Tomorrow morning I’m gonna test again to see how long it’ll take with the pump (that way through the night the pipes will be cold). I know it’ll be way less than previous assessment.
DIY Smart Home Guy Thanks for you input and help. Hope you and your family stay safe during these crazy times.
I have a Watts 500800 Hot Water Recirculation Pump installed, so could you be more specific on how to connect a sensor to a hot water pump. I hear you speak about it needing a Wink Hub 2 and a GoControl PIR Motion Sensor but not how to tie them together. Thanks
Yes and show how to approximately set that up too please
If I plug this recirculation pump into a smart plug and leave the pumps timer switch setting to on all the time, what happens when I turn the power off to the smart plug? Is there still water flow without power to all the faucets? Can I toggle the recurculation pump this way via the app, automation, schedule, etc.. Also, do you know if there is a model of this recurculation pump that does not have the timer built in where I could simply incorporate my own timer via automation.
@@DIYSmartHomeGuy1 Sorry, just to be clear, you leave the timer switch in the off position or on position? If it's in the off position, can it still be controlled via automation?
Will this system work to help pipes from freezing? When the temp is 5 degrees or less, I need to keep a trickle of water running to prevent it from freezing.
You could probably use a smart thermometer that you then use its readings to program to run the pump for 1 minutes each 20 minutes when the temperature is near 20 degrees and then run 1 minutes each 10 minutes for even colder temps.
Does pump run all the time and the valve opens and closes based on water temperature reading at the farthest sink? Or you can use the built in timer to run at specified intervals such as when waking up in morning? How about running pump based on temperature at the valve
You can run the pump all day if you like but keep in mind your water heater will run more often and increase that bill. I use it on the built in timer, ie in the morning when I normally get up and go to bed. This minimizes water waste and unnecessary running the hot water heater.
Your quite the innovative guy.
Question though:
So this circulates the hot side through the cold back to the hot water tank, then when the water flowing through the hot side is at a certain temperature, the valve under the sink closes to stop hot water from filling the cold side.
Now my question is, when the valve under the sink closes and the pump is still going, won't the pressured water be dead heading and cause strain on the valve under the sink? Not to mention increasing pressure of the hot water side?
Trying to wrap my head around this system. Thanks
Hi FortunateDaD, this is a question that get's asked a lot. I have a pretty detailed explanation on my website. It's best to go there and read the answer in full. Thanks for watching!
azhb.com/diy-install-watts-hot-water-recirculation-pump/
Can this unit work with a tankless water heater?
great idea
Does it work on tankless?
I wish we had this pumb system in the UK, we don't have pumps with built in timers :(, also or domestic electrical supply is 240v, I wouldnt know what to fit to step the voltage down to 115v
Yeah - I've heard many people wishing this was available in the UK. Maybe someone will release one soon. Best of luck.
If understand the mechanics correctly, when the water recirculates back through the cold line we are drinking water that has been run through the hot water tank? I have always understood that due the use of decaying aluminum anode rods, water from the hot water tank should not be used for drinking or cooking. Is this safe?
Hi All Over, this is a question that get's asked a lot. I have a pretty detailed explanation on my website. It's best to go there and read the answer in full. Thanks for watching!
azhb.com/diy-install-watts-hot-water-recirculation-pump/
Thanks for the video! Is the estimate of $20/year for the pump 24/7 based on electrical consumption of the pump only or accounts for heat loss from keeping the pipes warm?
I didn't take heat loss into account. Only the pump continually running. Heat loss will vary widely by region.
@DIYSmartHomeGuy1
Curious: does the pump have to be installed right on top of the hot water heater? Could it instead be installed somewhere else along the hot water pipe in a more convenient location (for either access or power)? Is there a good reason that I'm overlooking for having the pump installed almost touching the hot water tank?
I guess in theory it could be installed anywhere after the hot water leaves the tank and the first faucet in the run. Not a plumber, so can't say for sure. The logical place is on top of the water heater since the pump fittings are designed to fit the existing water heater threads. Hope that helped.
Do you think this system can help with fixing pecans pipes from freezing? Mine are in the attic and garage and I am having trouble getting a contractor to run heat tape on the pipes or do the job at all. It seems it’s going to be my task but I physically can’t fit in the attic space so I’m trying to find a different resolution. Thank you
The theory sounds good. It would a) keep the water warm, and b) keep the water moving. Worth a shot in the absence of all else.
We have the same unit and works great however we have a constant hum sound in parts of the house. did i install something incorrectly?
Hard to say. I've never heard of that problem. I can only think of vibration in the pump that's being translated into the copper pipes as being the problem. I'd start there.
I have a water softener, will this be a problem I would love to have one of these.
The video presenter indicates that the Watts recirculating system may may not work or be advisable, if you have a water softener. The real problem is that hot water (or cold) water may be pushed back/into your water softener by the force of the recirculating pump. But I found a solution for that. Just install a check valve at the water softener output pipe. For more details and diagram, check this page. gregknowswater.com/case-study-is-your-softener-running-backwards/
It worked for me.
Enjoy your hot water!d
@@luiscalderon6297 Nice.. thanks Luis.
The thing that I am not so much like about Watts recirculating system is max temperature is 98F degree, that is just Luke warm and the 3-mode timer is kind of not so effective. I saw other brands like Grundfos, Laing, etc.but don't know if they have something with higher temperature and with automatic turn on/off, that would be maintenance free system but then they may not much reliable. Any suggestion or recommendation would be greatly appreciated.
The best I've seen are under sink mounts, but for me, getting the power there is problematic. While only luke-warm, at least it's not freezing cold and get's me there faster.
In a 2 story house How do you know which sink is the furthest sink away from the water heater?
Unfortunately it's by trial and error timing how long it takes the hot water to get to the tap.
Any problems with any kind of sediments with the return water?
Only if you consume it!!!
I have installed one of these Watts recirculating pumps with the sensor, but I have run into a problem: when the pump is running, hot water is also being pumped into the cold water supply throughout the house, so all I have is 120-degree water! I tested the valve by shutting off the cold water service valve and opening the cold tap at the master bath's sink (the farthest point from the heater). As expected, the water runs until is heats up, and the valve closes, stopping the flow to the cold side. No problem there. But somewhere else in the system hot water is "crossing over" to the cold water side when hot water is not being used. I suspect that this is occurring where the main water supply splits to provide water to the heater and cold water to the rest of the house. So how do I remedy this? I can't install a check valve, or else the unheated water can't flow back through the cold lines to the heater! Has anyone else encountered this problem? If so, what is the remedy?
It has to be bypassing through something connected to both H & C. Could be showers and sinks with mixing valves (single handle). You may be able to identify the location(s) by isolating (closing the supply valves) fixtures one at a time until you quit getting hot water on the cold side.
out of curiosity Wich way is the directional flow arrow on the body of the pump pointing towards the heater or the hotel line going into the house ?
outbound. The arrows point from the water heater to the house.
is it correct that to make this system work there are two points of install. One by water heater tank (pump) then another (sensor) at master bedroom? How do you put a sensor on shower install ?
You can put multiple sensors in, but you don't need to worry specifically about the show, unless you have a manifold block. I have not solved manifold blocks with this solution yet.
Does the pump have to be installed at the water heater?Or could it conceivably be anywhere along the line? The reason I ask is, I don’t have an outlet in my water heater closet but if I just put this under the house somewhere, I have some outlets already installed in the crawlspace …
Not really sure. I guess in theory as long as the pump was between the output of the water heater and before the first faucet it would be functionally the same. Not a plumber, so can't say for sure.
You would ideally put the check valve on the thing furthest away from the heater so when that is hot enough everything in the house is hot enough
IN some installations where there is a "second branch" (say you have a "split master" floor plan with bathrooms at either end of the house), you may have to install a second check valve as well.
Great video and great setup. I just purchased this recirculator and intend to install it in coming weeks. I don't use motion sensor in the house (but am intrigued for using them for automation instead of security purposes(. Anyway, I plan to use remote buttons in the two primary locations of need (master bath and kitchen) using the one pump with the one valve located at the furthest faucet to turn it on since the wait will be short enough this activating it via button is expedient and convenient. Here is my challenge - I don't want to have to remember to shut it off, so I either need wireless remote plug capable of setting to 'open for 2 minutes when activated'. Does any one know of such a remote plug (that doesn't require a smartphone app interface) that can simply be activated by a button? Or does the device have a setting to power (completely) down x-minutes after getting a "pump on" signal? I am sure there is a way, but haven't quite yet worked it our.
I don't know how to do this without an app. As soon as you say, "wireless remote plug..." and then state some rules, by definition you are describing a smart plug with a rules engine of some kind. Probably the least expensive option would be getting into the TP Link (Kasa) line up. You could get a smart plug and make a simple rule to tell it to automatically turn off after x minutes from being turned on. Then you just need the button.
@@DIYSmartHomeGuy1 Thought I had already posted a response to your response, but I don't see it(?). Thank you for your prompt and considerate response. I do already have Kasa and Lutron smart devices in place and had decided trying to set up a Kasa plug solution (cheaper than Lutron). I have yet to install the pump itself since I am temporarily out of commission, but was able to set up the Kasa plug with a timed option then created a iOS Shortcut (used a Text shortcut) with an IFTTT applet so that all we need to do is tell Siri "Hot Water" and the plug turns on and then turns off after 2 minutes. Works with the plug on a lamp. Now just need to install and see if it works with the pump when implemented. Clicks all the boxes - no app launch necessary, no hardware buttons and can be activated from anywhere. Thanks again for your video and assistance!
Awesome - glad to hear that these things get worked out. Best of luck and hope you recover/return soon. Cheers
just a note sir, your pressure temperature relief (PTR) valve is plumed with ill-advised flex pipe. it might want to have a licensed plumber come out and evaluate your water heater.
We have a tank heater, installing this system next week. Giving thought to using three comfort valves in the house. One at the furthest master bathroom sink, kitchen sink & guest bathroom sink. Hot water does take forever to get to these locations. Will more then one comfort value create unintended consequences?
I used multiple in my house. Didn't seem to be an issue. However, you mileage may vary.
@@DIYSmartHomeGuy1 I ended up placing three comfort values at different locations in the home. Works fine with no noticeable delay in hot water at the tap. Thanks
When the thermal control valve that's mounted under the sink detects hot water, it closes to prevent the cold water side from filling with hot water. My question is, what happens to the pump at this point? It doesn't know the valve has closed, so is it still trying to pump water in a now-closed system? Seems like this would put undue stress on the pump.
Hi Lucky Flyer, great question. The pump does continue to run but it has a feature that allows the water to internally bypass so that it doesn't create excess pressure on the line or harm the pump.
After installation of the Watts Hot Water Recirculating Pump,I started using it right away. As long as the pump is running all is fine, but when the pump shuts off I have pipe bumping at the faucet where the bypass valve is installed, when running water in the kitchen. I installed an arrester on the Hot water side at the by pass valve, and still have bumping when running water at the kitchen with the pump off, I turn on the pump and it stops. Should it take an arrester on the cold water too, to stop the bumping?
Sorry, but that's a little above my paygrade. I can say that I had bumping at one time and found that the faucet shutoff valve was barely open. When I opened it all the way, the bumping stopped. Aside from that, and this video, I have no real plumbing skills. Best of luck.
What about the reviews I've been reading that people have to now wait for cold water? When they go to use their cold water they get warm water.
it's true.
how much extra energy is used because of heat bleeding out through the pipes? Thats what i want to know. The power that the pump uses is probably minuscule compared to the heat lost through the pipes.
Hard to say. For me it's about having warm water available at the tap when I turn it on. I don't like waiting the two minutes for the ice cold water to clear just so I can wash my hands after using the bathroom.
@@DIYSmartHomeGuy1 can we come up with a way to test it? I would be interested in doing so. But I can't really think of a way to do a scientific test.
Why would you not want to push the soft water into the cold water line? Isn't the cold water also already softened?
Thanks for clarifying. I will have to confirm my assumption with some practical tests, but I believed the hot water heater and the RO filter we have are both being supplied softened water. And you are very welcome, you've got a great channel and content.
That's not how that tee under the sink works. There is paraffin wax inside the tee. So as the hot water circulates it pushes the cold water through the system and as soon as there is hot water at that tee the paraffin wax expands, closing the tee, and preventing hot water from getting into the cold side while also allowing hot water to be readily available at every fixture.
I have a couple of questions:
#1 So the pump runs sending the hot water to the sensor valve under the sink. When the sensor determines the water coming to it is hot, it shuts off dumping the water down the cold water line. When that sensor valve activates, does the back pressure in the pump line cause the pump to shut off - or does the pump just continue to run until the timer shuts it off?
#2 with the pump off and not running via the timer, will tank water flow through the pump with the pump not running?
Good questions:
1.a.) dumping is a strong word for what is happening. Since the house has a single source of water (either city or well), both the hot and cold water lines in your home are at equal pressure. The pump on the hot line puts slightly (a very very small amount) more pressure on the hot water line. If the valve is open, it pushes water from the hot side into the cold side. Since the source of the extra pressure is the pump at the hot water heater, the water from the cold line returns to the hot water heater.
1.b.) The pump itself has an internal bypass. If the valve is closed, the pump continues to run. This is similar to how a power steering pump works on most cars with a gas engine. A belt is always turning the pump, but there is no effect if your not turning. This doesn't create any issues for the hot water pump other than a small amount of electricity draw. You can either use the timer to shut it off, or use a smart home automation like I showed in the latter half of the video.
2) Yes, if the pump is off, the water continues to flow.
I wonder if the pump is even necessary in a pressurized system, I think a temperature-based pass-through check-valve is all you need at the furthest tap or faucet. If it detects a temperature drop then the valve would open to allow the cooled water to recirculate. The recirculating pump can be removed from the system
It would be interesting to find out of convection would achieve the same thing.
Can I use multiple bypass? I have a three-story house and install one bypass at the farthest sink. But in my basement a bathroom and a laundry room I have a washing machine box and two small vanities. Can I install a second bypass? Will the system work that way?
Yes it will. I did that in my last house, one in the upstairs bath and one in the downstairs bath. The only problem that I had was that the Tee that split was after the kitchen sink. So when both valves would allow flow, we would end up with warm water on the cold side. But we lived with it since it gave warm water to the whole house.
@@DIYSmartHomeGuy1 that doesn't seem like a bad trade-off. In my scenario I'm going to put the first one on the third floor bathroom. The second one is going to be right in the basement I tapped the two sinks in the washing machine right off the hot and cold water main going to the riser. But I think I'll do first is set up the one on the third floor bathroom. Run the unit for 5 minutes or so and see how long it takes to reach the washing machine to receive hot water. If I still feel there's an issue, I will install that 2nd bypass.
That sounds like a good plan. I would do the furthest first, then leave it be for a couple of days. See how it performs under normal, everyday use. If you need, install the next one and see how it goes. It may take a couple of iterations to figure out the best approach depending on how your runs are organized.
did you have to empty the water tank when you installed the pump?
No, just shut the water off going into the hot water heater n where you are installing the temperature sensor.
I have two water tanks set up in parallel, where would I install the water circulator?
Not a plumber, but I would suspect that you would need to put one on both, or put a check valve on the tank that did not have the pump to prevent backflow.
Excellent use of motion sensors. I have had a zigbee for about 6 months and still learning stuff besides me screaming at Google to turn on or off the lights.
I got a few motion sensors. They are branded Wasserstein. They are 2.4 GHz wifi. The Wstein app, is a very terrible version of Smart Life. I use ASTRODOT Smart Plugs, which are also 2.4 GHz wifi. These work with Google Home, so voice control works.
So I tried to stringify with the Smart Life app. Well, it's just not in the cards for now. But I was able to accomplish what you did with Stringify with Smart Life, and what I think much simpler.
The "automation" in Smart Life is deceptively simple.
Here is the logic that I am using in Smart Life;
If any motion sensor is in the alarm state, turn on the switch.
If all the motion sensor is in the normal state, wait x minutes, turn off the switch.
The switch turns off after x minutes, I set mine to 45 minutes for now. I had to restart the app to make it work though. But since restarting, all is working as designed. Prior to restarting, when any sensor was normal, it turned off the switch.
a.co/d/jkyEsq4 Outlet plugs
a.co/d/7pcdkTc Motion Sensors
I see stringify has shut down!! Do you have a way to doing this without stringify? If so what is it? Maybe a new video on how you program these items on a different platform?
@@DIYSmartHomeGuy1 I purchased inexpensive 115v wifi outlets on Amazon that can be managed with a smart phone app, Smart Life. I can program on my phone to either run for a specified time each day or an on-demand run for around 10 mins to heat the loops. I've been testing the programming on a lamp and think this will work well. I have a tankless heater and the plan is to install dedicated return lines including an expansion tank because I like cold water. I'm not sure if returning hot water through the cold water supply to the Rennai tankless will not increase the temp beyond settings, any insight on this potential issue?
I have a water softener in my house how can using this water circulating pump be an issue?
There are considerations, but I don't have this issue myself. Other commenters have offered advice. There also may be other videos on that topic. Best of luck!
How is it holding up? I just installed mine with a smart plug, so just curious how well that’s worked for you.
For all the years we lived in that house, it was fantastic! It's more problematic in our new house and I very much miss this feature. I would do it again and again and again!
Hi, I got the Watts Hot water Recirculation pump. Do you still have this same setup? Which Hub, Motion sensor do you recommend now for this application? Still use Stringify for this? Is there anything compatible w/ Smart Life App?
I moved a couple of years back and have been in live-in-reno mode ever since. Short answer is, no. I don't have that same setup but wish I did (given the winter we just had). My current house has a water softener and a manifold block, both of which create their own problems for this solution. Not unsolvable, but other things have priority. I'm personally using Hubitat has my rules engine and quite enjoy the power it provides. Not as graphically cool as Stringify was, but as or more powerful.
@@DIYSmartHomeGuy1 I just got an Amazon Echo w/ Kasa Smart Plug and Third Reality Motion Sensor. I have it set up when the motion sensor gets activated it turns on the smart plug and the Watts Pump. I also created a routine to turn off the pump after 25 mins. No need for Stringify. I don't know how long it will take for the hot water to come to the tap after the pump is started. I have the sensor valve in the kitchen which took 1:10 to get hot water. With the pump less than 3 sec. Upstairs bath may need another sensor valve. It used to take 45 sec and now it's about 15 secs.
I worry about having to bleed out the hot/warm water whenever I turn on the cold water line using this method.
Valid point. You'd need to decide which is a bigger issue for you and your family: 1) waiting several minutes for hot water to show up at the tap, or 2) having lukewarm water on the cold side for a short amount of time. Cheers
Got an attack cat running around the house. Will the sensors pick up a small cat when she's on patrol?
@@DIYSmartHomeGuy1 thanks bud.
Wouldn't the existence of water pressure (which always exists) be enough to push water to the check valve?
Most likely not since there is typically a single feed to the house that provides the pressure to both the hot and cold side. So you would probably have a pressure equilibrium between the two sides. The pump creates a small enough pressure to overcome the cold side pressure and create flow. At least that's how I picture it in my mind. Cheers
Can you tell me how you came up with 15,000 gallons per year of water wasted?
Here is my approach:
Initially, after it was first installed, I set the pump to the “on” position and set up a smart plug to turn the pump on at 5am - off at 10pm for weekdays, and on at 7am - off at 10pm for weekends. That worked great but I thought it ran too long for a household of two.
Then I settled on a different approach. I kept the smart plug on/off times but set the pump timer “on” and alternated the little switches on the timer face on/off/on/off and so on, clear around the entire face of the timer to get 15 minutes on followed by 15 minutes off. Since each “on” time runs for 15 minutes, I figured I’d still have warmish water during the “off” time. This way, whenever the smart plug turns the power back on, the timer is either in an on or off cycle and doesn’t require an accurate time of day for the built-in timer clock. This has worked fine for a couple of months.
Next, I will keep the same smart plug on/off times and set the the timer switches so it has two “on” cycles followed by one “off” cycle so it uses a little more electricity.
I’ve also considered installing insulation (via the crawl space) onto the water pipes running from the water heater to the kitchen and both bathrooms. I’m trying to use the combined features of the smart plug and the pump timer to avoid (for the time being) using an IFTTT approach.
@@DIYSmartHomeGuy1 - Thanks for your comment. I am using an Amazon Smart Plug controlled by the Alexa app. I bought it as a package with my Echo Dot. Shortly after installing the pump & smart plug we had a short power outage and I learned that the smart plug stays OFF until re-activated via the app on my iPad. Unless I overlooked something, is there a way to automatically turn on the smart plug in the case of a power outage?
Also, when the plumber did the install he hooked up the sensor (under the bathroom sink) backwards; i.e. the in/out connections were reversed - didn't read the labels I guess. I reconnected them correctly but afterwards I wondered if it really made any difference since the actual sensor is probably located in the middle of the assembly. Nonetheless, mine are connected properly now.
Like others, I am very satisfied with how it works. It's great to have nearly-instant hot water! And I haven't experienced the issue of warm water from the cold faucet (yet). Many of the houses in my neighborhood have similar floor plans (water heater in the garage) and could benefit from this device, so I've shared my experience with several other homeowners.
THE SOLUTION IF YOU HAVE A WATER SOFTENER INSTALLED IS TO PUT A
"CHECK VALVE" AKA ONE WAY VALVE
Hey thanks for the info. Can you please verify the check valve installation location?
why do you care whether there is one motion sensor kicking in or 5 isn't 1 and 5 equal. In other words you either want the pump circulating or not circulating? So what is the value of the counting the motion detectors?
If I am getting up in the middle of the night to relieve myself or my dog gets a drink of water, I don't want the pump to kick on. I suspect the number of people and pets in your household would be the best variable to trigger the pump during the time when you do not anticipate the need for hot water, but ymmv.
Does this work with a well pump
Don't see why not, but haven't a clue myself. Sorry
How quiet is the Watts Recirculating Pump?
So quiet that I need to touch it to make sure that it's running.
I installed the system as described, but now the hot water pressure went down considerably... any suggestions... Thanks!
Hard to tell. I would first check to make sure that the valves are all open all the way. The pump shouldn't restrict in any way that I know of. Sorry I can't help more.
That last bit with the motion detectors was the last straw for me. There's got to be a simpler way to make that system work.
Jesus.... of course there is...it comes with a timer!
Can this unit be installed on a tankless water heater
Not sure. Sorry
I'm baaack. My pump is working or sounds like its working , so could problem by bypass valve? If so how can I check if the bypass valve is working? My 8th grade shop class taken 50+ years ago ain't kicking in so need your help.
If you're SURE the water in the hot water line is cool (below that ~97 (or whatever they say) temp, and the water does not flow, it's most likely the valve. I could have been more clear before, sorry about that. The difficult thing about verifying the water temp is you need to run the hot water to do it. Best to wait for everyone to finish all their hot water needs for the day and let it rest for several hours. It's hard for me to believe the pump would be bad. The valves are known for going out now and again.
@@DIYSmartHomeGuy1 Soon as I can reach my plumber I'll see if he can locate a replacement valve.
Much much thanks for your reply and assistance...you da best. Chef
When the valve closes, isn't the pump then pumping against a closed system? Is that not bad for the pump?
It has an internal bypass so it's harmless.
@@DIYSmartHomeGuy1 The pump has internal bypass?
Yes. Bypass Pumps continue to run regardless of pressure in the system by internally bypassing flow if the discharge outlet is closed. The motor and pump stay running and are ready to deliver full power as soon as the system outlets are re-opened.
@@DIYSmartHomeGuy1 Thank you sir!
Ok, I understand the temperature 'sensing' valve - when the water being pushed by the recirc pump is cool, the valve stays open and the water recirculates. Once hot water makes its way to that cross-over valve, the valve closes. Then what? What if you are not running the shower but the recirc pump is still pumping but the crossover valve is closed (because the water is now hot) - the hot water now has nowhere to go. It can't go through the crossover valve because the water is hot and the valve is closed, and you aren't running the hot water tap or hot shower. At that point the recirculating pump is pushing against a closed system (not running any hot water out of any tap and the crossover valve is closed). Can't this damage anything? What am I missing?
Hi @libbyd1001, in short, there is an internal bypass valve in the pump to prevent over-pressure. There are a ton of other similar questions where I explain in more detail. Thanks for reaching out.
@@DIYSmartHomeGuy1 Makes sense. Thank you for replying.
No problem. Thanks for watching!
Can this be rigged to prevent pipe freeze ???
@@DIYSmartHomeGuy1 ..oddly enough, not having a main supply freeze problem and also not at the outside hose bibs.....only at the main bathroom sinks (mostly) which are located against an outside wall.....from your description it may still work, then ?
Turn sink on to make sure water is off. Plus you don’t have hot water 24 hours a day , your pump is turned off most of the time to save money on bill .
Due to the cold water line being used for recirculating, Would this affect the cold water supply to a Lawn Sprinkler system. I would hate to waste hot/warm water on the lawn
Not sure that would be an issue. Once hot water reaches temp at the furthest point in the house it'll close until the water cools below the temperature sensor approx 95°. The remaining water in the system will cool relatively quickly. Again, you can set it up on a timer, ie when you normally get up in the morning or in the evening.
Can I use this on a instant hot water system
Richard Rodriguez Watts makes a model specifically for tankless systems.
Olivier Gagnon Which model is that?
How long after it detects motion before you could get hot water?
That depends on the distance from the tank. My longest run is about 75 feet and it take about 2 minutes.
@@DIYSmartHomeGuy1 Thanks! Maybe I'm misunderstanding - with a recirculation pump being activated by motion - it still takes 2 minutes after you turn on hot water before hot water comes out?
For me, it takes two minutes from ANY motion for the hot water to show up. I run 5 motion sensors in parallel, so it's rare that I don't have hot water. My sensors are located in:
- garage
- laundry room
- kitchen
- master bath
- upstairs bath
If motion is in any of these areas, the pump is running. Working in the garage, pump is running. Come in to wash up, water is ready. Use the toilet - when finished pump is running. Etc. At night when we're sleeping, pump is off unless we wake up and break the motion barrier.
How does the pump not burn out when the valve is closed and the pump is still trying to push hot water against a closed valve?
The pump does continue to run but it has a feature that allows the water to internally bypass so that it doesn't create excess pressure on the line or harm the pump.
@@DIYSmartHomeGuy1, that's interesting that the pump can push enough pressure against the cold line and yet when turned off it can still allow hot water to flow. Have you studied a gravity circulation system?
Can this be used on a tankless system?
@@DIYSmartHomeGuy1 thanks I thought so. But I'd like to do more research since my tankless unit is about 40' from my shower. And with 6 people in the house that's a lot of waste waiting for hot water.
@@DIYSmartHomeGuy1 yeah I've been researching in the internet. And apparently it can be done but not recommended. Apparently the tankless heater will be at a constant on/off cycle and yes I'll have hot water on demand but now I'm wasting more natural gas. And my Rheem warranty does not cover if I install one on this unit. But back to the old drawing board.
So what kind of ill effects where there be if I just had the recirculating pump running 24/7? Would it hurt the pump?
Watts reply on the product page is why run it when you are sleeping? Or away? It circulates a quart a minute.
@@JasonCarmichael I installed one of these pumps when I first bought my new Rheem hybrid water heater last month. The pump worked okay for about a week. It then died and I returned it to Home Depot where it came from. I chalked it up as a bad experience.
You be wasting electricity to run the pump and reheat to the water. I don't even run my water heater 24/7 (which is a benefit of having an electric water heater).
Im not as smart as all of you. So Can u explain how it is actually recirculating? I mean shouldn't there be another hose making a big loop going back to the water heater for recirculation??
I was wondering the same thing
I don't really understand how this works. Motion sensors are where? Why five?
Get the Smart Plug WiFi Outlet plug circulate pump in , set the pump on 24 hours. Use your smart phone turn on and off, I turn hot water on 2 minutes auto off after 2 minutes and i get in shower hot water waiting for me.
Another factor not mentioned. How far away you're furthest faucet is, will also determine the cost of operating this system. So basically, to expect almost instantaneously getting hot water at a tap, there is a price to pay. The system cost about 200.00 up front, assuming a home owner can install it. But, and this is a big But, the farther away your faucet is, the cost of running the system and the fact that your hot water tank will run way more often, better think twice about the system for you home. In other words, if you can't wait maybe 90 seconds, well you can spend a lot to wait only 5 seconds.
Not only distance, but also how often and how long you run the pump. If you leave it running 24/7, it will cost more that running it at select (peak) times. I also have a timer on my electric heater, so that it's heating the water only when needed and ALWAYS shut off during peak power times. Mr electric bill went from $277 a month (by the previous residents) to less than half that using the timer and turning the temp down to 120 degrees (they had it set all the way up). I haven't been here a year yet, but my summer bills (with the A/C running in the Southwest Desert) didn't come close to their average monthly bill.
Not really $20/year because the hot water loses heat more from the pipe than inside the water tank. So definitely some heat is lost and the water boiler has reboil. That costs money. In California water is 3X cheaper than electricity. I need to waste 4 gallon of water before useable warm water arrives. 4 gallon of wasted water cost 5 cents. It costs me 33 cents per KWH. Without much details of calculation, I believe wasting 4 gallons of water is a cheaper solution. What do you think?
I think there are a bunch of ways to look at it. At the end of the day, having warm water at the tap when I shower or wash my hands was the number one reason that convinced me. But if you live in areas that: 1) don't have overly cold water in the winter, 2) water is cheap, 3) water is reclaimed, etc., this is probably not a solution for you. Thanks for the feedback! Cheers.
Crap so does this mean I can't use it? I just recently had a water softener installed.
As I understand it, it doesn't prevent it, but there are special handling procedures. There are many comments that address it. I don't have the setup, so I cant say for sure what to do.
It will not work with water heaters with heat traps.
Hi Truth be Told, thanks for the feedback. Additional clarity is always appreciated. Cheers
If that valve goes bad couldn't you have your hot water heater running a lot more ?
@@DIYSmartHomeGuy1 I see. Thank you. So how does the pump work if you don't use the timer ? What makes it start pumping and then stop ?
@@DIYSmartHomeGuy1 If it always on, when does the pump run ? Is it based on pressure differences from the temperature valve or what ?
@@DIYSmartHomeGuy1 thanks for the great information. I would imagine the lifespan of the pump would be only a few years if it's running all the time. Yes?