HOT TIP: NAVAL SHOWER A Navy shower is “the term used for a water-saving technique that was started in the Navy to help save precious freshwater aboard ships. The basic idea is to hop in the shower, get wet all over, turn off the water while soaping up, and then rinse clean. The small change in routine makes a huge difference: a regular shower can use as much as 60 gallons of water, while a Navy shower can check in at about 3 gallons.” (HUFF POST, 03/29/2009 05:12 am ET Updated May 25, 2011) But the hard part probably is getting a teenager to buy-in! Thanks for taking the time to create these channel's content... and thanks for sharing!
Well, it appears I have been doing the "NAVAL SHOWER" all my life without knowing! I didn't know people soap up while keeping the water running. Seems too wasteful to me, just saying.
Hear Hear. Been yelling at a house full of girls for that. Finally had to go down turn the shut off to the Tamil gave em 2 minutes of hot water till they got it.
Been tankless for over 30 years. First one replaced an electric heater, had a standing pilot and no blower, so no electrical connection required. Used that for 20 years. Present one is on year 11, piezo, propane, exhaust blower, so power loss means no hot water. But we're also on a well, so power loss means no water anyway. Besides, a 10 KW generator takes care of that situation. Estimated the first one would pay for itself in 1-1/2 years; only took 9 months. Both have always run on soft water. The present unit has a remotely settable hot water outlet temperature feature so, for example, from your bathroom you can adjust the hot water outlet temp to exactly what's needed without the need to mix in cold to cool it at the shower faucet. Bingo! Your efficiency just improved. Tankless have their little quirks but no show-stoppers. I'll never have another tank.
I have two (yes, 2) tankless water heaters in my house. They are both 95+ efficient units. One is used for DHW while the others is used to heat my underfloor radiant heat system. The one main drawback of a tankless unit for DHW is the delay in getting hot water to the faucet. My unit has an internal pump that would push the water through the system to keep the hot in the pipes. But then it has to run the burner when it does it. To counteract this you need to plumb a return line back the the unit from your furthest faucet otherwise it forces the hot water into the cold water pipes. As for the one i use to heat my floors, it works great. When there is a call for heat, the pumps turn on and cycle the water through the burner. As the water heats up the unit sensed this and modulates the burner to heat the incoming water to the correct heat. When my tankless unit runs, I have watched the incoming water rise quickly from 70* to close to 110* and the unit is set for an outflow of 120* water. so it goes from a 50* heat rise to a 10* heat rise. And that is where the tankless unit shines. I have gone out to look at the gas meter and watch the flow of gas drop dramatically (the meter spins much slower as the demand for gas drops.) My gas bill from Xcel is much lower than others. The January bill where we had multiple days below 0*F was a little over $240 for my 2800 sqft house.
I installed a timed light switch for the bathroom. You got thirty minutes to do your thing in the light. Mainly it was to keep the electric bill lower. Had 400 watts of lighting in there and three teenage daughters. Not one could turn off a light when exiting. Those were interesting years💜
I'm a boy and I do everything with the light OFF. Piss, shit, you name it. The night light is all I need. You would probably love to have me live with you. Btw can I live with you? Rent free. I'll be quiet.
When my water tank quit back in 2006 I replaced it with a Bosch Tankless gas unit WITH a standing pilot. The home center was selling them for the same price as a 50 gallon tank unit at that time (I think someone made a mistake, I asked if that was the true price and they said it was so I jumped on it!). I have been extremely happy with my tankless Water heater.
I have Naiven dual boiler for domestic hot water and for the radiant heating system in the house. Now going into my third winter season with the system. You have summarized the advantages of such a system, so I won't repeat. It has been completely reliable so far and highly efficient. My fuel source is propane, with a future availability of natural gas in my neighborhood. We recently went through 75 hours of no electrical power due to a wind storm. I am fortunate to have a permanently installed auxiliary generator. No issues in supplying electrical power to the boiler's controls. My water is soft, so mineral buildup in the pipes is not apparent. Just today I bought vinegar to use in flushing the boiler jackets. I have seen videos for maintaining my boiler, which I will do very soon, early in the Fall season. Doesn't seem like much of a charge and well within the capabilities of a DIYer. Bottom line, I am completely satisfied in the choice I made for heating my home in a northern climate and for endless hot water (no teenagers at home).
I'm putting a similar system into my home as well. Navien Combi boiler for domestic hot water and then garage and basement radiant heating. Did you do a recirculation loop for basically instant domestic hot water? I've been debating it.
Walk into a house with 3 to 5 children. Then try telling the mother that they don’t need much Hot water. Just after you say that. Duck. Because something is flying at your head !!!
@@ltsgarage7780 I've inspected homes that fitted with tankless that exceeds the max gpm of all the HW fixtures combined. It's a personal choice but with flo-flow fixtures and by being mindful ppl could save a lot of money.
@@jeffmathers355 I disagree with “A lot of Money” If everyone in the house takes really short shower, wait till the dishwasher is completely packed full, and the clothes washer is packed. You might save 20 to 25 dollars a month. And that’s a maybe that much!!! Then add back in how much electricity or gas the dryer uses extra to dry the full load. Saving 240 to 300 dollars a year. I would change jobs then use the shower for what it’s made for. If you really feel a 300 dollar bill at the end of a year. You just are not charging enough. Says the guy on the internet that charges 275.00 an hour. 🤪
@@jeffmathers355 buy a good Tankless then you don’t have to worry about one giving up on you. I have tankless water heater’s still working just fine after 15 years & some even longer. Some of it is water quality. Some of it is maintenance. They all need to be serviced. What do you call a quality tankless & what does it cost. Not the install cost but just the cost of the tankless? By the way I’ve run my own plumbing business for 49 years. I’ve heard it all and seen everything tried !!!
We built a new house in 1991 with two 75 gallon natural gas water heaters. Had 7 kids at the time, the orginal water heaters only lasted 7 years. Replaced with 1 tank less we never paid more than 1/3 the cost of the previous system. I service the system 1 a year even though we have a soft water system in the house. Our tank less is 19 years old still working.
Hi Matt, Jim in Japan and I mentioned before, every house in Japan has one or more of these heaters and nobody ever has them serviced. They last 15-20 years then they replace them. I am sure water in Japan is quite hard, very hard in many places. I have never seen any scale on faucet filters etc. However, I am asking my wife to get one of ours serviced, it still works but I believe it needs a tune up. I will get back to you how that goes.
From my master plumber point of view, for the most part, I agree with the points brought up in this video. Personally I do not try to actively sell tankless. I do tell every customer what is mentioned in this video. I would add there is a #4 that most contractors do not tell you. These units are very sensitive to flow rate. For example you have to have “X” gallon per minute flowing through the heater for it to function properly. If you have a low flow shower head, there is a chance that that there is not enough flow on the hot side to get the heater to operate as designed. Remember, your mixing hot and cold in your faucet. Let’s say I can measure 4 GPM coming out of the shower head, that means in theory that I have 2GPM on the hot line and 2GPM on the cold line. That 2GPM is not enough for the tankless to operate correctly. *the 2GPM is just a made up number I used to make my point, consult the tankless manufacturers manual for the real numbers.
i’m a handyman that ran into this many times, along with that scale reducing the flow of every faucet and shower head and valve in the entire house which makes the minimal flow to get the tankless working even worse as time goes by… not for me
You're doing it wrong. The best way to use tankless is to set the tank temp at the temp you use. For example, my electric tankless is set to 105F which is my preferred shower temp with my 1-1/2 gpm flow rate. I turn the shower completely to the hot side, my Stiebel Eltron keeps the water right at 105 ( my lines to my fixtures are all 3/8" pex and insulated so there is very little if any loss. You don't want to mix water at the fixture that creates losses from heating the water above the level and then cooling it. My energy usage for a 4 minute shower at 1-1/2 gpm is 5kWh * 4/60 or only 333 watts, that's it. It's so efficient I use it with my PV system and don't pay for hot water. I have a scale filter on it, all hot water systems should have scale filters. Tankless is the best hot water I've ever had, yes, you don't want your kid in there for three hours, you have to use your head but if you do it's very good and about 1/2 the cost of heat pump systems.
If 105 is your max, more power to you. But to say I’m doing it wrong just shows a lack of understanding of what most Americans want in their home. I’ve been in this industry a long time. With a 105 degree max, I’d be getting phone calls from unhappy people. I don’t like phone calls from unhappy people. Edit: I own a tankless, I love my tankless. In a “normal” residential setting, I’ll never go back to a tanked.
I recently (~24 mos. ago) replaced my tank water heater with a tankless. I save about $100 to $120 a year on my natural gas bill and never running out of hot water is a big plus. The space saving is a big deal too. My unit is mounted inside the house here in the southern mountains around Asheville. The unit has to be vented, so it's mounted on an exterior wall making the vent short and direct. Your "How to flush the unit" video was a big help too, Matt. Thanks for that. I should jump on that job right away.
Just had my traditional water heater break down on me and spill water between the hardwoods and subfloor. I replaced with a tankless, outdoor unit and it's been nice so far.
More disadvantages to the tankless in my bathroom: It shuts off for low flows. So I have to fill a plastic container of warm water in the sink in order to shave (wash face and clear whisker cuttings from the razor in warm water instead of a ultra-frigid stream of cold water), which is a throwback to the old days. I also have to run more volume of water for a shower than I need because of the it-shuts-off-for-low-flows problem. I am on an old septic system that is just about shot and it doesn't need extra water going into it. I'm disabled, so it takes me longer to wash hair, then change positions to switch to washing upper body, then lower, then feet etc. So, I can't turn it off in the middle of any of those stages in order to change positions etc. because when I turn the water back on, the hot water line from the tankless has cooled off and that makes me have to keep adjusting the hot and cold control. I had no such problems with the hot water tank because I could just leave the water at a low flow level.
@@billrimmer5596 I did a remodel on. Low income housing apartment complex. They had me take out an 150 old style tank water heater and install a 150 Rheem heat pump for domestic water and heat for temperature for comfort. I spent months trying to talk them out of that style. In the last 5 years I’ve worked on almost every one of them for one reason or another. I guess I just built in a recurring job. At 275.00 an hour you really don’t want to be calling me out every single day for a problem !!!
And the temperature is not consistent if you have low water pressure. I found that out by accident when the city was doing maintenance on the local water system and the pressure shot up. Suddenly I was getting consistent water temperature.
I live in Phoenix and currently have a 40G tank. My water is hot without heating it. All summer it's nearly in vacation mode. My gas bill runs $17/mo :-)
I recently installed a ScaleBlaster to help keep my 99% efficient tank-less hot-water heater from scaling. I love my tank-less system! After 22+ years of a gas 40 gallon unit in a previous house, this one is awesome!
Thanks for the advice Matt..! I live here in San Antonio and lost my tankless during the freeze in February. I have since learned to winterize by either keeping a small amount of hot running from a faucet or turn the heater off and manual drain it.
@Brannon W I am seriously thinking of getting a tankless. Who installed yours if you don't mind me asking. I am shopping around and some of these companies are not wanting to talk to me about tankless and instead want to push me into a standard tank with a 10 year service plan at like 50 per month. That's insane to me.
@@jmramirez0609 Originally I had Chambliss Plumbing here in San Antonio install my Rinnai tankless - but, the last time in March I did it myself. Thanks.
@Jessica Ramirez, a 10 year service plan at $50/month for a tank?? That is insane! Did you ask what that service includes? I've been a homeowner for nearly 17 years and have never needed anyone to service my tank. Not once. And I've never had to do anything, myself, to maintain it either. There's no question they're trying to rip you off. I mean, hell, for that money, you might as well go out and buy a few more tanks. I'd tell them to their face that they must be selling garbage if their tank requires monthly services. It's sad that we can't depend on businesses to be honest. Everything's a scam nowadays.
Drain it, why i took my failed one apart..all copper lots of passages like a gas grill but on steroids gazillion small passages, dont wanna clog some just running it..I got copious pics of exchanger that failed..
Installed a tankless last year and liking it. Spent $6.50 on gas last month with normal usage for my wife and I. Cost savings is definitely there for us. Pro-tip for the kids, go to the tankless and press the power 5 minutes into their shower. Instant cold water just as fast as instant hot water.
I hope you don't have kids with oily hair needing to wash/condition their hair every day. I hope you don't have daughters who shave in the shower. Five minutes isn't reasonable.
10yrs using tankless, 2 adults we've realized significant gas saving. Ours has inline screen. Easy maintenance using valve system. Also no catastrophic leaks. We also were able to remove a 2x2' chimney which provided additional space in laundry room while eliminating air leaks and temperature transfer of bricks
Yeah well as soon as you get a Navien combination boiler water heater you have nothing but problems 4-5 years in. They don’t even make it ten years. They are terrible. If it’s just a tankless water heater than your ok but be careful with someone trying to sell you a Navien!!
I need a water heater and still looking into it, worried about thankless failing and costing me too much over time, i am not sure it it reduces my gas bill, my gas bill goes up because of furnace mostly...
After my father-in-law built his house he started having problems with his tankless heater. It took awhile to discover that the source of the problems was particulates in the water coming from the new well. After a filter was installed between the two, the problems ceased.
What? Literally, the guy that installed mine told me all 3 of those things first. And I absolutely saved money as soon as mine was installed. And they sell small battery back ups
I cant imagine wanting to place this unit outside ( of course I'm from the north), I cant believe the humidity, rain, and exposure to vandalism and theft is worth the 5 sq ft of reclaimed space.
I can understand why they put them outside, much easier install vs in the house, as these units need a vent for the exhaust gases, and that was an issue when I was thinking of installing one. If I remember correctly it needed to vent up through the roof, not out the side of the wall like my normal water heater was set up to do. The costs just kept going up and up and the reason I passed on a tankless. And then the actual gas usage, I saw no benefit for my particular situation.
FYI. Lived in Spain for several years, experienced the tankless water heater. No electricity is required for operation, well, some is :) Through a "D" sized battery, can you believe that? They had an insert for a "D" size battery just for the igniter.....incredible. It wasn't a standby system for when the power goes out, it was the main source.
I lived in Spain (Rota) in 83 - 86 and we had a unit over our kitchen sink. Essentially a coil with a flame in the middle that was connected to a huge orange butane tank that you had to replace every couple of weeks. Always looking for the Butano guy! It worked great as far as I remember . . .
Make sure the unit you choose has sufficient delivery volume! My camping version is so slow that by the time your hot epsom salt bath filled up, it would have likely cooled too much. To get the max temp you must slow the flow to the minimum, and to get the maximum flow, you must sacrifice maximum temp. What you want to compare, is max temp at the unit's max flow rate.
@@rogerlibby14613 Not at all. Half inch pipe will easily allow enough flow to keep the unit full. It is related to the heater capacity, and the input temp of the water.
such great videos. i love this guy!!!! I love that you set a timer with your kids. I hope you also teach them how fortunate we are to have 5 minutes of hot clear water! it's a good thing
For power outages, the units pull less power then a 100 watt light bulb, they can be powered for quite some time by a PC backup power supply, I would recommend any internal unit be connected to on for the extra surge protection, back up power and voltage conditioning of a good APC. External can be put on them if wired right. For usage, don't blame the units for not forcing you to use less hot water. That's kind of like saying grocery stores get a bad mark cause they let you buy food you end up throwing out. The units waste no gas holding hot water and get more of the heat generated into the water then normal tank heaters buy about 10% on non condensing units. For the flushing, which you have bad B roll of, yeah u buy a pump and bucket once with some hose fittings. You use 4 gallons of the cheapest vinegar possible once a year, or you buy one of the tankless manufactures pretreatment cartridges and replace them as they run out. Its simpler than changing the oil in a car, you can do it yourself, have a cheap handyman do it or even one of those teenagers using up all that hot water.
Here in the Netherlands I've never had a tank in my lifetime. Having a limited hot water supply is so odd. However over here we also use hot water radiators for heating our homes.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the Netherlands utilize natural hot water springs to provide hot water to homes and even to heat roadways for de-icing? It's piped all over the country, right? Such an amazing and innovative feat of engineering!
@@lowes891646 it's really rare in single homes in northern europe. Can't speak for the rest of europe but here 50-100l tank or 1000-5000l accumulator (which is more or less the standard if you got water radiators in a larger house) is really common with 100-1000l being rare and tankless being something you look at and go "you need a gas line?" Or "you need a gas line that big?'
My 80 gallon hot water heater just went out about a week ago and I replaced it with an electric tankless hot water heater and I love it way more than a tank water heater for the fact of endless hot water when I shower. Definitely recommend tankless.
Great video. I put a tankless in 2 years ago, have been very happy with it, and my experience bears out everything said here. I was lucky enough to to realize an energy cost savings with the tankless heater; but, mine is a family of only 2 adults, so “endless” hot water wasn’t the temptation for us that it can be for others. The fact that we’re NOT heating water when we don’t need it has been GREAT! The outdoor install was also a big plus for me. I replaced an improperly-vented, outdoor-installed conventional water heater with a properly-vented, outdoor-installed tankless heater and saved the cost of having a roofer penetrate the roof and install a roof jack. Tankless was a win-win for me.
I think the point is you can only claim one of these as a benefit not both; save money or endless hot water. (If you use more hot water you lose the savings)
Thanks for the tips: One thing about "power outage"...these things use almost NO electricity...IIRC, about 1/2 watt for the motherboard. A 12v battery connected to a small sinewave inverter instantly solves that problem. We had no power for some weeks, but plenty hot water!
They use quite a bit. It takes 1 kilocalorie to heat up one liter of water one degree. 1 kilocalorie is equal to roughly 1.2 watt hours. I am not going to do the math any farther; it is obvious at this point that it takes more than 1/2 watt to heat up 10-20 liters for that 1-3 minute shower.
@@mwong000 Fair enough. I guess I was confused and thought he meant something else. In a grid down situation though, the gas lines are turned off. You might think "my gas worked fine last time I was without power" and you would be correct. However, if the grid outage isnt local, then the infrastructure to monitor and maintain the gas delivery system will stop. Ask people in Texas what happened when their power went out but they thought "I still have gas heat!" Yeah... for several hours and then that stopped as well. And there were people near the Texas grid border that had gas the entire time.
@@krisspkriss If you are wondering if you still have gas, you may turn on one of the following devices if you have it -- gas stove (smell the gas), gas fireplace (listen for the gas coming out) , gas hot water heater (turn it up), or gas barbecue. Good luck!
If you have an induced draft one, like a condensating high efficiency one, the type with plastic vents, that's probably going to use a bit of electricity.
My advice is don't. House came with one that was only a year old. It's never worked properly. Hot water for maybe 1-2 minutes. Even professionals can't figure it out despite flushes every few months.
Litiviou Spartus. If you don’t have a very large tub the wife uses every day. Or you don’t have a large family like Mat does. A tankless is a waste of money for you. Plus when you turn on the hot water now at your furthest fixer. It will just about double that time. So you must take into the down side that your water waste will go up also. I’ve been installing these things for over 30 years!
Tankless drawbacks: 1) They (tankless) cost more to install. Something like $700 tanked vs. $1200-1400 tankless. 2) It takes much longer for hot water to arrive at a faucet. 3) They make noise: a blower fan and some electronic clicking vs. near silence for a tank. 4) Tankless is a much more complicated appliance. This may or may not be a reliability and/or maintenance issue, but many people are technology shy. 5) Tankless may restrict hot water flow more than a tank arrangement.
Wally Kramer they definitely do restrict flow some, but most plumbers work that I’ve ever saw restricts flow more. At least in my area. They put fittings at every bend in pex, which is why I plumbed my new house myself. For some reason they treat it as if it’s hard pipe and doesn’t bend smoothly 90+ degrees.
"Replace anode rods every couple of years" for tank maintenance? I guess that depends on your water quality. In my area North East of Atlanta our tanks can last for 15 to 20 years with no anode rod changes and by that time we just replace the tank. No one around here seems to be changing them.
I don’t install tanklessfor the very reasons stated here my first 50;gal gas lasted 23 years power was off several times at length always had hot water never did anything but relight the pilot after we forgot to pay gas bill . Plain and simple water heaters don’t just reheat that often when not in use . I have had customers call on Friday with a leaking tank type that they turned off power and water to and Monday morning it was still hot enough to shower in although not the normal 140 degrees
I’m in Northeast Ohio and we get excellent water from Lake Erie so I have not experienced any of these problems, 15+ years so far with absolutely zero maintenance.
Using smart home tech and a wifi connected shower, you can program it to start turning the hot down after a certain time. Except for the master bath!!😃
I do plumbing in CA and we have to use flex lines on gas for earthquakes.. also you need 5 ft minimum pipe length between a gas regulator and tankless.
In California the inspector would make you change it out to a flex. I would check the paper work on that Tankless. There are only a few of them that can be supplied by 1/2 inch flex. Most are 3/4 plus the full flow 3/4 gas line. These things take a special large flex. Not that 1/2 gas block they have on that one!! 1/2 flex does not flow enough gas for a 199K burner
Fortunado _ really , that’s interesting.That would never fly here. We have to use swing joints which I don’t know, seems like a Sturdier and more aesthetically pleasing way while still providing for structural failure. we can flex dryer, stove, and fireplace inserts. But thanks for letting me know, i always find it interesting what codes other states have. From what I hear like MASS, CA has some of the most stringent codes.
I have 2 tankless gas water heaters, an old Bosch with pilot flame vented and a recent Rinnai direct-vent mounted outside as shown. If I lose electricity, I can switch valves to using the Bosch for the whole house. I added the Rinnai outside the rear bath so I didn't have to wait for hot water and to not waste water down the drain until then. If you have solar backup w/ batteries, it could manage to tiny draw of an e-ignition gas tankless. Never vinegar flushed my Bosch in 23 years, but soft water where I live.
Growing up, my buddy would would wake up an hour before he actually needed to wake up so he could get in the shower, lay down (in the shower), and fall back asleep (in the shower with the hot water running).
My son when he was younger would fall asleep in the tub. Water would be up to his ears. Scared the crap out of me the first time he did it. Since then I started calling his name every few minutes to make sure he was awake lol.
I had my 50G propane hot water slug replaced in 2004. My home is 3BR 2.5 bath. I installed 3 Renai Propane heaters on each full bath and 1 for the kitchen and split to the 1/2 bath. Hot water in 33 seconds and during the holiday's hot water forever. No power, no problem I have a Generac 15KW standby generator. I am also on a deepwater well which is also in the Generac.
3 years of living with a tankless. Regarding Matt's 3 things they didn't tell you. In most places, power reliability is near 100% due to loop high voltage distribution and underground medium voltage distribution. If you live in an area with frequent power outages, a small battery backup (UPS) will suffice. But if you do I'd suggest you move. The energy savings is overblown. It really comes down to standby losses and tank heaters are so well insulated that this is almost a thing of the past on a daily basis (if you pay for it) and if you're gone for days: shut it off. My exhaust temperature is 115-120F and my log mean delta T is just a few degrees so it's getting 90+% of the lower heating value out of the gas. Some tank hot water systems can get these low LMDT numbers as well. I flush mine every 12 months. I spent $100 for a cheap sump pump and $12 for 2 short hoses. 4 gallons of vinegar and a pound of citric acid (chelates the calcium) costs $10 each time I do it. So once a year from start to finish it takes
I've had the same tankless unit (Bosch Aquastar) in my house for about 18 years now. It has worked perfectly and with no problems the entire time. Mine continues to work even if the power is out so if that is important to you shop around, not all require electricity. In addition, adjust the outgoing water temperature during the course of the year so that the outgoing hot water is just about the temperature needed for a hot shower without mixing in any cold water. You do not want to run these with scalding hot water that is then diluted with cold water at the faucet or showerhead. You lose efficiency doing it that way. I think that also minimizes scale, I have only cleaned mine once during the whole 18 years and I am not even sure it needed it then. My gas bills dropped noticeably when I had this installed to replace the old 40 gallon tank in my house. Been a long time but at the time I recall somewhere around $25/month.
Maybe a gas tankless is O K, but I'm an electrician and I saw one installation where the handyman who installed it connected 3-40A circuits to a condo electric panel which was maxed at 125A. (Add it up) This left only a few amps for everything else. The owner had to turn off 2 of the units to have A/C or to cook. The incomming service could not be increased. With only one unit working, he was left with a trickle of lukewarm water. He had to put a tank type back in. Before you purchase an electric tankless water heater, make sure you have sufficient electric available.
I owned a Dry Cleaning plant that also laundered shirts and was replacing one of my two 100 gallion tanks each year. I switch to a tankless system set at 160* and washed shirts and laundry for 5 hours a day. My gas bill was cut in half and when I sold the plant seven years later it was still running efficiently with only two service calls in the time I owned it.
@@matt8863 That's interesting, I never really thought about that. Definitely going to have to get one for mine! Also smart to use a cheap computer UPS system - it handles surge protection and will give you a few hours of hot water after the power goes out.
Doesn't your power company give you compensation when you lose stuff due to a power surge? They have to do that here => somehow they manage to have almost no surges in the grid ;)
my 75 gal gas water heater just died after 8 1/2 years - leaked water everywhere. and it was apparently running non-stop for a couple of weeks because the power vent ran continuously. I couldn't find a replacement anywhere and called 5 different plumbers. I was able to find a tankless and had it installed. I have a water softener system as well. Good to see this video and know that I need to do maintenance every year- no problem as I maintain the water softener every year and can do them both at the same time. My tankless is inside my basement, 199,000 btu and 10 gpm. However, I don't see the link above to your maintenance video.
Great info but you don't discuss electric tankless. The installation requires a separate circuit which can be expensive to install and may not be feasible for those people with small incoming power feed.
Generator? I have used a battery backup for the tankless and it has worked flawlessly. Use of natural gas dropped by 77% with the tankless install vs tank so it paid for itself in 24 months. The maintenance on mine was nil as all water went through a KINETCO water filtration & softening system. Just for information I did clean the system, easier than doing laundry. 14 years going strong!
One is my favorite benefits is being able to drink your instantly heated water (which I'd never do with a storage system). My biggest con is that they need a minimum rate of flow in order to kick in (otherwise they'd overheat), meaning that you can't just dribble a little hot water at your kitchen sink or have a very lukewarm shower. At least, that's how mine were anyway.
Did you have to install a pump too - I did not install one - since the replacement tank was about $1000 cheaper for me - but I read that for the size of my house, from the basement, i had to put some type of water pump to get the water up to the higher levels of the house.
That’s not how they run in the last 20 years. Yes - you need full hot water flow to turn system on. But once it ignites you can back off the flow and add cold at the faucet to get a lukewarm shower or whatever. I had 3 in my 5000 sq ft house with 5 bathrooms. Plus 3 gas furnaces and a heated pool / hot tub. Gas bill was never over $45 in summer and $100 in the winter months. That beats my electric bills with dual hot water tanks in previous homes. My other houses had hot water tanks and they failed just after 2-3 years. Full of sediment/broken elements/leaky pressure relief valves. Not to mention hot water tank seam failure in an attic that floods the whole house. This video is a lie about service requirements.
@@Swordsfor200Alex Re "That’s not how they run in the last 20 years", glad to hear that this issue has been resolved. Mine was only installed in 2010 but perhaps we're a bit behind on this tech 'down under'.
We have had similar units in the uk for a few decades. Ours are known as combi boilers. They heat the radiators and the hot water on demand via a diverter valve within the boiler. He radiator water circuit is heated directly by the burner, then if hot water is called for, the diverter valve sends the radiator water through the plate heat exchanger, which heats the potable hot water for the taps. Here in the uk all gas appliances must be serviced, or at least safety checked, annually. We typically pay around £50 ($90 i think) for this on a boiler. They check the gas and flue seals, the flue gas composition, the gas pipework integrity, and take apart the burner to clean it. The burners and heat exchangers on ours are usually stainless steel. The best thing about them is that you only heat what you need. Increasingly larger houses with multiple bathrooms are having tanks fitted back in because our combi boilers struggle with more than one outlet being opened. Typical ratings are 24-40kw. And if we fitted ours outside the scrap men would steal them before you could blink! Do american gas appliances have to be condensing flues now? In the uk it is compulsory as they are up to 98% efficient. It extracts heat from the flue gas so the flue runs so cold they are made of plastic now.
Here in OZ I have had my tankless for 15 years not a problem, never serviced. In my previous home I went through 2 HW storage units in 15 years. Do the maths.
With a water softener I flushed mine twice since owned over 10 yrs, as a precaution. No more bloody burst gas water heater ever again. The tankless are so much more cost effective! Either pay for 1 tankless price or the 40 years I’ve been here I would’ve paid for 4 gas heaters, do the math.
@@ross9481 I didn't know tankless came out 40 years ago. Same with tankless, a tank water heater need to do a little maintenance too. Yes you did not know that. I did the math. I have my tank water heater for 20 years, no issue. When power outage, I can still take my hot shower. Unlike the video from someone who not expert in water heater saying "oh I still have the warm water in the tank" 80-90 percent water heater in residential are non electric powered. Here do the math. An old house has old plumbing systems. Bare minimum of gas deliver thru the house. To upgrade to tankless: change the gas piping system to proper working at FULL capacity (tankless at high working power need high volume of gas) sharing with other appliances at the same time decrease that volume. Like in the video plumber will have to run a new short piping for gas to the new location, and run new water plumbing to the location. Go ask plumber how much will it cost you.
@@dumboyoyo5245 A simple Google Search would've proved that I was right, Tankless Water Heaters have been around since 1929, that's over 90 years ago!!! They've been in use in the EU long before here in N.America. With a water softener in accompaniment there will be literally no maintenance. We have a full basement, lots of copper plumbing, no need to add any thing extra. I've seen in the US looks like some are installing these outside of the home, I wouldn't do that. Take care. www.neyerplumbing.com/blog/water-heater-service/a-short-history-of-the-amazing-tankless-water-heater/
1. As for my tankless it needs no outside electric for the pilot, it starts with D cell batteries as soon as you turn on the water. It does take a few minutes for the hot water to get to you, but so does the water from a tank. Ok, it is a portable unit but I use it full time in my RV. 2 Since it is being used in an RV I don't worry about it saving me a lot of money on my energy bill. Besides it runs on propane and I use 20# bottles. I will be going to a 40# bottle soon. 3 Never done any maintenance on mine. Maybe I need to? Having said all that I have to say if I was using a full house unit I would need to know all the info you gave in your video. Thanks for putting it online.
I've got an old Bosch THW that has no electronics. It has a pilot light. When an ice storm knocked out the power for 10 days I had endless hot water, it was nice. Now, that I need to replace it, I was disappointed to learn they don't make these any more. They're all electronically controlled and need power. I feel that's actually a loss of nice feature.
Only because they’re outside the home 😂 Might be nice in the heat of summer to help with heating water, but useless for a cold snap. Texas should’ve listened to the suggestions to Winterize their systems.
I had one installed in my house in Michigan. The installation went perfect but I lost water pressure because the water coming out of the ground was too cold and the unit could not make Hot water best enough. I wish I could have one but I can’t. Thanks for the video
I find this video’s claims to be untrue for me. My outdoor tankless came with the house used (5 yrs?) and I’ve personally used it for 3 yrs. I never run out of hot. (Dishes, shower, sink) Not hooked up to electricity-use ordinary battery for ignition. The unit costs $130 on Amazon nw. They have many models/make like that. 2 person household. NEVER been seviced. Works fine. Love it!!!
Two things you neglected to discuss are choosing the size of the unit based on climate zone, as well as the differences between gas and electric units.
It depends on what I’m showering for. If I’m headed to bed I take a longer shower to relax and help ease some of the pain from a series of herniated discs. If I am short on time I can be in and out in 1 minute, just hitting the important parts. In basic training we learned to shower quickly. It really sucks having soap residue on you all day because you couldn’t wash it off.
I was just thinking a small battery backup with an inverter would solve that. I’m watching this during the Texas snowmageddon, so our power has been off and on for 3 days. I’m wishing I had battery backup for LOTS of critical circuits.
In my case where all I have is electric service no gas an all electric tankless often time takes 2-3 40-50 amp breakers. I'll go heat pump water heater instead when the time comes.
@@icantfinditdammit Ive found otherwise. keep in mind that an all electric house also has electric space heating equipment. and I am more than happy with my heat pump water heater. however, the thing they don't tell you about THOSE is that they need a viable drain, either into the septic or outside.
Scott, if you buy a tankless heater that has, typically, 2-D size batteries for the spark. Some tankless are equiped with a mini-generator, run by water flow, to make electricity and give you the spark for ignition. So, the gas tankless will operate when the electric is down.
Not sure how I feel about these “limitations”. 1) how often is your power going out that this is a problem? If your power is that flakey, then a solar panel is a great mitigation option here, even more so than a generator. 2) kids having long showers isn’t a fault of the system, but rather kids not having boundaries. Even still, tankless main savings come during winter when you’re not trying to keep 300L of water hot when it’s freezing outside. And you’re more likely to see a rise in water consumption before the cost of gas to heat gets you. 3) this is more a limitation on your city’s water supply than the unit itself. If you’ve got scale issues from hard water, it’s gonna cause havoc for all systems, not just tankless. I’ve used both systems, but if I ever have to overhaul my water system, the first addition is a tankless unit. Maybe we’re just blessed in Australia to not have issues with water or electricity supply.
Agreed on all the points - also, what difference does a pilot light make vs the one that doesn't have it? If you don't have AC power, pilot light is not going to help you run the electronics and the water pump.
@@rydfree fair enough but you still need power for the electronics and microprocessors. Do they have a dynamo running off of water pressure? That seems unlikely
There are MANY tankless heaters that run on batteries. I have 2 and they run on 2 D cell batteries. I replace the batteries every 6 months and that is only because I do not want to be with hot water. The batteries are still working when I replace them
I had a problem where the minimum flow rate on the water heater was higher than the my low flow faucet. Kind of defeats the purpose of trying to save water.
same here. the amount of water we need to do dishes to get our POS Nortiz to turn on causes a giant mess and forces us to waste a ton of water. then there's the sporadic hot/cold spells in the showers. the worst purchase of my life...
I installed my tankless 10 years ago by myself and the kit even came with a backup battery system to keep it running while powers out. My water is pretty hard and don't have a water softener I only have to clean my tankless once every 18 months every 12 months isn't worth it when there isn't that much scale although it's also not my main source of hot water because I use an outdoor wood boiler unit for the hot water and radiant heat during the winter but even still I'm in the country and have a 500lb propane tank that's hooked up to the tankless system along with a fireplace and shop heater in the garage and that tank only needs filling once a year. These tankless hot water systems nowadays are alot more efficient than the one I have so I find it hard to believe that they are more expensive and need more maintenance than one that's 10 years old
Hard water with a softener. I installed a tankless water heater above 6 yrs ago and I'm just getting ready to descale it now. But not because we feel we need to? But because we're told we need to by the descaleing companies lol. We'll see soon if it's nessasary ?
I priced these units out during an extensive remodel, I could not justify the cost vs a new natural gas 100 gallon water heater, and then the maintenance. Just two adults in the house, I went with the 100 gallon tank.
Switched over in 2009. It looked then like natural gas prices were going to go up - but then they went way down. Will never get my money back that way. Might have a chance on longevity though as the unit is 11 years old and has not missed a beat. With the average life of a hot water tank around 10 years if this one makes it 20 years then not having to buy and install another conventional tank will help with the savings.
I live in a small camper trailer. The old propane unit thermo couple went bad and the tank was in serious need of replacement. I bought a Tankless, about the size of a cigar box....from China. $45 bux. I've got endless hot water now and really enjoying this thing. Who knows how long it will last? Who cares?
Most important thing to know before purchasing a tankless unit is your Winter Water Temperature like February in Philadelphia. I tested my water in Feb. and it was 38*F. Now you have to heat the water to aprox. 115*. They always advertise how many showers can run at one time on Florida water Temps. of 70* incoming water temp. It may say 4 showers can run. But NOT in Feb.! Maybe 2 showers if you buy the right size!!!!!!!!! I have a Noritz NRC-98-Nat Gas since 2011! No I'm not a Plumber. I'm an Electrician!
3 years ago when our hot water heater needed to be replaced, I wanted a tank less water heater. 1. On an older house your going to have major issues. A. You need to larger natural gas pipes B. The exhaust system needs to be replaced from an aluminum pipes to a steel pipes due to the heat generated unless your units outside 2.The down side is the cost of a water heater and if your older than 55 years it's not worth the cost
Thankless is in use more than 50 years in Europe. In Turkey, %100 of houses use both water heating and house heating with same thankless unit and it is called Combi(Kombi)
I love my tankless water heater. The initial outlay was a bit pricey but well worth it! There was a big difference in my electric bill. Remember there are electric and propane tankless water heaters.
Oh, I wondered if they had electric ones. Wonder how they work? They will all be electric soon if Democrats have their way. In my situation I would prefer the electric over gas. I would not by a gas anything now as it may be banned at any time.
@@dano8613 Control? How about creating a relationship with your children in which they are on board with conserving for the good of the family like many kids who live on a farm get to learn. I think that's much better than "control" and complete lack of any understanding on the teenagers part about his/her actions are costing the family.
My experience issues with tankless: 1. Even a microsecond blackout or brownout will turn the unit OFF. And I have to go and manually turn it ON again to get it running. 2. There is a Minimum water flow before the heater will kick in. Below that level and it will not heat the water because it will get overheated beyond the set temperature or the max temperature. 3. If the inlet water is too warm (as in the summer) the it will heat it past the set temperature or shut it down if it goes past the max temperature. In those cases, you need to run more water than you want in order for it to heat it to the set temperature.
I live alone and installing a tankless water heater reduced my gas consumption in the summer by about 75%. So, a tankless system might make sense for those of us who use little hot water, because it really reduces the gas consumption. It might also make sense to those of us who use a lot of hot water because it provides unlimited amounts. Maybe for the average user the savings are not as big?
I live alone & also use very little hot water. I have a conventional 30 gallon natural gas water heater with a 3" vent to the chimney. I set the gas valve to pilot, put a cover over the vent outlet to essentially plug the gases from escaping & let the pilot light heat the water. It heats the water to about 120 degrees over about 3 days & only burns the minimum amount you'd be charged for anyway. Saves me a bundle.
I live alone too and need new water heater, i don't use much hot water at all and my gas bills have gone up a lot during cold winter, first my plan was to replace my tank water heater with a thankless , now I'm really skeptical, not sure if thankless is cost effective in long run, it can fail and i won't be abler to fix it myself, it costs me twice more than tank to install it initially, still researching , but, I'm not sold on tank-less yet.
@@MarcFun You are bringing up two very good points! Here is my experience so far: Tankless heaters seem to be fairly long-lived and low maintenance, so I didn't yet have to call a repair service in the 7 or so years I've owned it. I also installed it myself, that cut down on the initial cost a lot. However, it's definitely more difficult to install. My very rough guess is that it will probably take me about 8-10 years until the water heater has paid for itself. I am expecting it to last 20 years or more, so hopefully it will work. Your numbers may look different, though.
I recently moved into a house with one of those units, and lately, I've been thinking about doing some research about maintenence and service intervals, so when I saw this, I remembered.
Look into a chili pepper pump. Press the button when the pump stops in usually 30 to 45 seconds you now have hot water at your fixture. You could put it in the bathroom and or kitchen - saves a ton of water. (Best suited if you are in a drought area where water is expensive)
@@armick57 SIR!!! - NO SIR, I HAVE NOT!!! And if I did, sir, I would be taking only 4-minute showers because I would be the most outstanding and disciplined marine that the world has ever seen, sir!
@@KeepingOnTheWatch either you are a troll or totally ignorant of the US Armed forces. Either way, a submarine shower is : get in, wet down (5 seconds) , lather, rinse (max 30 seconds). So while you may be in the shower for five minutes the actual amount of water used is minimal.
Thank you for not intentional push the video over 10 min just for ad revenue. This is short and concise.
HOT TIP: NAVAL SHOWER
A Navy shower is “the term used for a water-saving technique that was started in the Navy to help save precious freshwater aboard ships. The basic idea is to hop in the shower, get wet all over, turn off the water while soaping up, and then rinse clean. The small change in routine makes a huge difference: a regular shower can use as much as 60 gallons of water, while a Navy shower can check in at about 3 gallons.” (HUFF POST, 03/29/2009 05:12 am ET Updated May 25, 2011)
But the hard part probably is getting a teenager to buy-in!
Thanks for taking the time to create these channel's content...
and thanks for sharing!
Well, it appears I have been doing the "NAVAL SHOWER" all my life without knowing! I didn't know people soap up while keeping the water running. Seems too wasteful to me, just saying.
Also: Cold Shower.
the searing hot seemingly endless, high-pressured shower was an American exception showcasing the good life. Oh so far we have fallen
Hear Hear. Been yelling at a house full of girls for that. Finally had to go down turn the shut off to the Tamil gave em 2 minutes of hot water till they got it.
Been tankless for over 30 years. First one replaced an electric heater, had a standing pilot and no blower, so no electrical connection required. Used that for 20 years. Present one is on year 11, piezo, propane, exhaust blower, so power loss means no hot water. But we're also on a well, so power loss means no water anyway. Besides, a 10 KW generator takes care of that situation. Estimated the first one would pay for itself in 1-1/2 years; only took 9 months. Both have always run on soft water. The present unit has a remotely settable hot water outlet temperature feature so, for example, from your bathroom you can adjust the hot water outlet temp to exactly what's needed without the need to mix in cold to cool it at the shower faucet. Bingo! Your efficiency just improved. Tankless have their little quirks but no show-stoppers. I'll never have another tank.
I have two (yes, 2) tankless water heaters in my house. They are both 95+ efficient units. One is used for DHW while the others is used to heat my underfloor radiant heat system.
The one main drawback of a tankless unit for DHW is the delay in getting hot water to the faucet. My unit has an internal pump that would push the water through the system to keep the hot in the pipes. But then it has to run the burner when it does it. To counteract this you need to plumb a return line back the the unit from your furthest faucet otherwise it forces the hot water into the cold water pipes.
As for the one i use to heat my floors, it works great. When there is a call for heat, the pumps turn on and cycle the water through the burner. As the water heats up the unit sensed this and modulates the burner to heat the incoming water to the correct heat. When my tankless unit runs, I have watched the incoming water rise quickly from 70* to close to 110* and the unit is set for an outflow of 120* water. so it goes from a 50* heat rise to a 10* heat rise. And that is where the tankless unit shines. I have gone out to look at the gas meter and watch the flow of gas drop dramatically (the meter spins much slower as the demand for gas drops.)
My gas bill from Xcel is much lower than others. The January bill where we had multiple days below 0*F was a little over $240 for my 2800 sqft house.
I installed a timed light switch for the bathroom. You got thirty minutes to do your thing in the light. Mainly it was to keep the electric bill lower. Had 400 watts of lighting in there and three teenage daughters. Not one could turn off a light when exiting.
Those were interesting years💜
I understand the kids part.My step daughter came to stay a couple of winters ago and had a $1000 electric bill/mo.all winter.
haha my uncle did the same thing
With today's bulbs it would he pennies per day if they never turned off.
I'm a boy and I do everything with the light OFF. Piss, shit, you name it. The night light is all I need. You would probably love to have me live with you.
Btw can I live with you? Rent free. I'll be quiet.
When my water tank quit back in 2006 I replaced it with a Bosch Tankless gas unit WITH a standing pilot. The home center was selling them for the same price as a 50 gallon tank unit at that time (I think someone made a mistake, I asked if that was the true price and they said it was so I jumped on it!). I have been extremely happy with my tankless Water heater.
That's not a true tankless water heater.
I have Naiven dual boiler for domestic hot water and for the radiant heating system in the house. Now going into my third winter season with the system. You have summarized the advantages of such a system, so I won't repeat. It has been completely reliable so far and highly efficient. My fuel source is propane, with a future availability of natural gas in my neighborhood. We recently went through 75 hours of no electrical power due to a wind storm. I am fortunate to have a permanently installed auxiliary generator. No issues in supplying electrical power to the boiler's controls. My water is soft, so mineral buildup in the pipes is not apparent. Just today I bought vinegar to use in flushing the boiler jackets. I have seen videos for maintaining my boiler, which I will do very soon, early in the Fall season. Doesn't seem like much of a charge and well within the capabilities of a DIYer. Bottom line, I am completely satisfied in the choice I made for heating my home in a northern climate and for endless hot water (no teenagers at home).
I'm putting a similar system into my home as well. Navien Combi boiler for domestic hot water and then garage and basement radiant heating. Did you do a recirculation loop for basically instant domestic hot water? I've been debating it.
I just replaced my 30-gallon with an electric Rheem 3.5 gpm point of use for my small 1-bath house. The unit was
Walk into a house with 3 to 5 children. Then try telling the mother that they don’t need much Hot water.
Just after you say that. Duck. Because something is flying at your head !!!
@@ltsgarage7780 I've inspected homes that fitted with tankless that exceeds the max gpm of all the HW fixtures combined. It's a personal choice but with flo-flow fixtures and by being mindful ppl could save a lot of money.
@@jeffmathers355 I disagree with “A lot of Money”
If everyone in the house takes really short shower, wait till the dishwasher is completely packed full, and the clothes washer is packed. You might save 20 to 25 dollars a month.
And that’s a maybe that much!!!
Then add back in how much electricity or gas the dryer uses extra to dry the full load.
Saving 240 to 300 dollars a year. I would change jobs then use the shower for what it’s made for.
If you really feel a 300 dollar bill at the end of a year. You just are not charging enough.
Says the guy on the internet that charges 275.00 an hour. 🤪
@@ltsgarage7780 I meant save a lot on the cost of the water heater. Hence my OP. Cheers
@@jeffmathers355 buy a good Tankless then you don’t have to worry about one giving up on you. I have tankless water heater’s still working just fine after 15 years & some even longer.
Some of it is water quality. Some of it is maintenance. They all need to be serviced.
What do you call a quality tankless & what does it cost.
Not the install cost but just the
cost of the tankless?
By the way I’ve run my own plumbing business for 49 years.
I’ve heard it all and seen everything tried !!!
wow, thank you for this, i was considering switching, but i live remote, have frequent brown outs, have 4 boys, and am super glad i watched this!!!
We built a new house in 1991 with two 75 gallon natural gas water heaters. Had 7 kids at the time, the orginal water heaters only lasted 7 years. Replaced with 1 tank
less we never paid more than 1/3 the cost of the previous system. I service the system 1 a year even though we have a soft water system in the house. Our tank less is 19 years old still working.
Hi Matt, Jim in Japan and I mentioned before, every house in Japan has one or more of these heaters and nobody ever has them serviced. They last 15-20 years then they replace them. I am sure water in Japan is quite hard, very hard in many places. I have never seen any scale on faucet filters etc. However, I am asking my wife to get one of ours serviced, it still works but I believe it needs a tune up. I will get back to you how that goes.
Once per year, we need to run vinegar through the tankless heater with a sump pump, and let it run for a few hours
From my master plumber point of view, for the most part, I agree with the points brought up in this video. Personally I do not try to actively sell tankless. I do tell every customer what is mentioned in this video. I would add there is a #4 that most contractors do not tell you. These units are very sensitive to flow rate. For example you have to have “X” gallon per minute flowing through the heater for it to function properly. If you have a low flow shower head, there is a chance that that there is not enough flow on the hot side to get the heater to operate as designed. Remember, your mixing hot and cold in your faucet. Let’s say I can measure 4 GPM coming out of the shower head, that means in theory that I have 2GPM on the hot line and 2GPM on the cold line. That 2GPM is not enough for the tankless to operate correctly.
*the 2GPM is just a made up number I used to make my point, consult the tankless manufacturers manual for the real numbers.
I have seen this issue as well
i’m a handyman that ran into this many times, along with that scale reducing the flow of every faucet and shower head and valve in the entire house which makes the minimal flow to get the tankless working even worse as time goes by… not for me
You're doing it wrong.
The best way to use tankless is to set the tank temp at the temp you use. For example, my electric tankless is set to 105F which is my preferred shower temp with my 1-1/2 gpm flow rate. I turn the shower completely to the hot side, my Stiebel Eltron keeps the water right at 105 ( my lines to my fixtures are all 3/8" pex and insulated so there is very little if any loss. You don't want to mix water at the fixture that creates losses from heating the water above the level and then cooling it.
My energy usage for a 4 minute shower at 1-1/2 gpm is 5kWh * 4/60 or only 333 watts, that's it. It's so efficient I use it with my PV system and don't pay for hot water.
I have a scale filter on it, all hot water systems should have scale filters.
Tankless is the best hot water I've ever had, yes, you don't want your kid in there for three hours, you have to use your head but if you do it's very good and about 1/2 the cost of heat pump systems.
If 105 is your max, more power to you. But to say I’m doing it wrong just shows a lack of understanding of what most Americans want in their home. I’ve been in this industry a long time. With a 105 degree max, I’d be getting phone calls from unhappy people. I don’t like phone calls from unhappy people.
Edit: I own a tankless, I love my tankless. In a “normal” residential setting, I’ll never go back to a tanked.
@@mosfet500 Do you have your tanks outside or inside? I'm wanting a gas tankless heater, but I want it outside.
I recently (~24 mos. ago) replaced my tank water heater with a tankless. I save about $100 to $120 a year on my natural gas bill and never running out of hot water is a big plus. The space saving is a big deal too. My unit is mounted inside the house here in the southern mountains around Asheville. The unit has to be vented, so it's mounted on an exterior wall making the vent short and direct. Your "How to flush the unit" video was a big help too, Matt. Thanks for that. I should jump on that job right away.
So in 15-24 years you will pay off the unit. Typical cost vs tank comparison. Not sure if thats worth it.
Just had my traditional water heater break down on me and spill water between the hardwoods and subfloor. I replaced with a tankless, outdoor unit and it's been nice so far.
More disadvantages to the tankless in my bathroom:
It shuts off for low flows. So I have to fill a plastic container of warm water in the sink in order to shave (wash face and clear whisker cuttings from the razor in warm water instead of a ultra-frigid stream of cold water), which is a throwback to the old days.
I also have to run more volume of water for a shower than I need because of the it-shuts-off-for-low-flows problem. I am on an old septic system that is just about shot and it doesn't need extra water going into it.
I'm disabled, so it takes me longer to wash hair, then change positions to switch to washing upper body, then lower, then feet etc. So, I can't turn it off in the middle of any of those stages in order to change positions etc. because when I turn the water back on, the hot water line from the tankless has cooled off and that makes me have to keep adjusting the hot and cold control.
I had no such problems with the hot water tank because I could just leave the water at a low flow level.
He did not cover needing to totally replace older water lines, and the much larger gas line to the appliance too
Excellent comment with very good points!! I’m leaning towards a heat pump Rheem water heater
@@billrimmer5596 I did a remodel on. Low income housing apartment complex. They had me take out an 150 old style tank water heater and install a 150 Rheem heat pump for domestic water and heat for temperature for comfort. I spent months trying to talk them out of that style. In the last 5 years I’ve worked on almost every one of them for one reason or another. I guess I just built in a recurring job.
At 275.00 an hour you really don’t want to be calling me out every single day for a problem !!!
And the temperature is not consistent if you have low water pressure. I found that out by accident when the city was doing maintenance on the local water system and the pressure shot up. Suddenly I was getting consistent water temperature.
Had one for two years, love it. Our gas bill last month was $28, big deal.
I live in Phoenix and currently have a 40G tank. My water is hot without heating it. All summer it's nearly in vacation mode. My gas bill runs $17/mo :-)
I recently installed a ScaleBlaster to help keep my 99% efficient tank-less hot-water heater from scaling. I love my tank-less system! After 22+ years of a gas 40 gallon unit in a previous house, this one is awesome!
williamhoodtn I need to investigate a “ScaleBlaster.”
Thanks for the advice Matt..! I live here in San Antonio and lost my tankless during the freeze in February. I have since learned to winterize by either keeping a small amount of hot running from a faucet or turn the heater off and manual drain it.
@Brannon W I am seriously thinking of getting a tankless. Who installed yours if you don't mind me asking. I am shopping around and some of these companies are not wanting to talk to me about tankless and instead want to push me into a standard tank with a 10 year service plan at like 50 per month. That's insane to me.
@@jmramirez0609 Originally I had Chambliss Plumbing here in San Antonio install my Rinnai tankless - but, the last time in March I did it myself. Thanks.
@@jmramirez0609 Right - that was the same reaction I got from plumbing companies here in San Antonio. Out of 10 bids, only 1 company would do it.
@Jessica Ramirez, a 10 year service plan at $50/month for a tank?? That is insane! Did you ask what that service includes? I've been a homeowner for nearly 17 years and have never needed anyone to service my tank. Not once. And I've never had to do anything, myself, to maintain it either. There's no question they're trying to rip you off. I mean, hell, for that money, you might as well go out and buy a few more tanks. I'd tell them to their face that they must be selling garbage if their tank requires monthly services. It's sad that we can't depend on businesses to be honest. Everything's a scam nowadays.
Drain it, why i took my failed one apart..all copper lots of passages like a gas grill but on steroids gazillion small passages, dont wanna clog some just running it..I got copious pics of exchanger that failed..
Installed a tankless last year and liking it. Spent $6.50 on gas last month with normal usage for my wife and I. Cost savings is definitely there for us. Pro-tip for the kids, go to the tankless and press the power 5 minutes into their shower. Instant cold water just as fast as instant hot water.
Glad you weren't my dad.
I hope you don't have kids with oily hair needing to wash/condition their hair every day. I hope you don't have daughters who shave in the shower. Five minutes isn't reasonable.
@@lorrilewis2178 Shaving in the shower is totally wasteful. Such should be done over bath tub and not waste continually running water.
@@itchyvet It takes me next to no time.
@@itchyvet You do you, don't lecture others on how to live.
10yrs using tankless, 2 adults we've realized significant gas saving. Ours has inline screen. Easy maintenance using valve system. Also no catastrophic leaks. We also were able to remove a 2x2' chimney which provided additional space in laundry room while eliminating air leaks and temperature transfer of bricks
Yeah well as soon as you get a Navien combination boiler water heater you have nothing but problems 4-5 years in. They don’t even make it ten years. They are terrible. If it’s just a tankless water heater than your ok but be careful with someone trying to sell you a Navien!!
I need a water heater and still looking into it, worried about thankless failing and costing me too much over time, i am not sure it it reduces my gas bill, my gas bill goes up because of furnace mostly...
After my father-in-law built his house he started having problems with his tankless heater. It took awhile to discover that the source of the problems was particulates in the water coming from the new well. After a filter was installed between the two, the problems ceased.
What? Literally, the guy that installed mine told me all 3 of those things first.
And I absolutely saved money as soon as mine was installed.
And they sell small battery back ups
I cant imagine wanting to place this unit outside ( of course I'm from the north), I cant believe the humidity, rain, and exposure to vandalism and theft is worth the 5 sq ft of reclaimed space.
I can understand why they put them outside, much easier install vs in the house, as these units need a vent for the exhaust gases, and that was an issue when I was thinking of installing one. If I remember correctly it needed to vent up through the roof, not out the side of the wall like my normal water heater was set up to do. The costs just kept going up and up and the reason I passed on a tankless. And then the actual gas usage, I saw no benefit for my particular situation.
I'm on the ocean. I wouldn't want it outside because it would corrode away. Stainless steel BBQs don't last long.
Vandalism and theft?
Do you live in a Democrat state ?
@@ajarivas72 I live in America , where Donald Trump is president and the vast majority of the citizens are unemployed, poor, desperate, or stupid.
@@ajarivas72 Republican state. Pay attention and get it straight.
FYI. Lived in Spain for several years, experienced the tankless water heater. No electricity is required for operation, well, some is :) Through a "D" sized battery, can you believe that? They had an insert for a "D" size battery just for the igniter.....incredible. It wasn't a standby system for when the power goes out, it was the main source.
I lived in Spain (Rota) in 83 - 86 and we had a unit over our kitchen sink. Essentially a coil with a flame in the middle that was connected to a huge orange butane tank that you had to replace every couple of weeks. Always looking for the Butano guy! It worked great as far as I remember . . .
Great video, thank you! You might consider placing a direct link in the description to the "How to flush your tankless hot water heater" video.
Make sure the unit you choose has sufficient delivery volume! My camping version is so slow that by the time your hot epsom salt bath filled up, it would have likely cooled too much. To get the max temp you must slow the flow to the minimum, and to get the maximum flow, you must sacrifice maximum temp.
What you want to compare, is max temp at the unit's max flow rate.
In a house this may be a problem if you use 1/2 inch pipe.
@@rogerlibby14613 Not at all. Half inch pipe will easily allow enough flow to keep the unit full. It is related to the heater capacity, and the input temp of the water.
such great videos. i love this guy!!!! I love that you set a timer with your kids. I hope you also teach them how fortunate we are to have 5 minutes of hot clear water! it's a good thing
For power outages, the units pull less power then a 100 watt light bulb, they can be powered for quite some time by a PC backup power supply, I would recommend any internal unit be connected to on for the extra surge protection, back up power and voltage conditioning of a good APC. External can be put on them if wired right. For usage, don't blame the units for not forcing you to use less hot water. That's kind of like saying grocery stores get a bad mark cause they let you buy food you end up throwing out. The units waste no gas holding hot water and get more of the heat generated into the water then normal tank heaters buy about 10% on non condensing units. For the flushing, which you have bad B roll of, yeah u buy a pump and bucket once with some hose fittings. You use 4 gallons of the cheapest vinegar possible once a year, or you buy one of the tankless manufactures pretreatment cartridges and replace them as they run out. Its simpler than changing the oil in a car, you can do it yourself, have a cheap handyman do it or even one of those teenagers using up all that hot water.
Here in the Netherlands I've never had a tank in my lifetime.
Having a limited hot water supply is so odd. However over here we also use hot water radiators for heating our homes.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the Netherlands utilize natural hot water springs to provide hot water to homes and even to heat roadways for de-icing? It's piped all over the country, right? Such an amazing and innovative feat of engineering!
@@blakekford naaaaah that's Iceland
I think pretty much all of Europe is tankless.
@@lowes891646 it's really rare in single homes in northern europe. Can't speak for the rest of europe but here 50-100l tank or 1000-5000l accumulator (which is more or less the standard if you got water radiators in a larger house) is really common with 100-1000l being rare and tankless being something you look at and go "you need a gas line?" Or "you need a gas line that big?'
My 80 gallon hot water heater just went out about a week ago and I replaced it with an electric tankless hot water heater and I love it way more than a tank water heater for the fact of endless hot water when I shower. Definitely recommend tankless.
You ran out of hot water with 80 gallons bet you ran out of soap too!
Great video.
I put a tankless in 2 years ago, have been very happy with it, and my experience bears out everything said here.
I was lucky enough to to realize an energy cost savings with the tankless heater; but, mine is a family of only 2 adults, so “endless” hot water wasn’t the temptation for us that it can be for others. The fact that we’re NOT heating water when we don’t need it has been GREAT!
The outdoor install was also a big plus for me. I replaced an improperly-vented, outdoor-installed conventional water heater with a properly-vented, outdoor-installed tankless heater and saved the cost of having a roofer penetrate the roof and install a roof jack. Tankless was a win-win for me.
As an hvac and plumbing professional who's installed a tankless i have most definitely saved money on my gas bill.
When my wife can take a "long, endless" hot shower... Saved my marriage. :-)
I think the point is you can only claim one of these as a benefit not both; save money or endless hot water. (If you use more hot water you lose the savings)
@Evil Mofo Versus what? Curious what the monthly savings is and how many months it takes to break even on the added cost.
And dont those need flushed annually by a professional.
I saved $39 the first month
Thanks for the tips:
One thing about "power outage"...these things use almost NO electricity...IIRC, about 1/2 watt for the motherboard. A 12v battery connected to a small sinewave inverter instantly solves that problem. We had no power for some weeks, but plenty hot water!
They use quite a bit. It takes 1 kilocalorie to heat up one liter of water one degree. 1 kilocalorie is equal to roughly 1.2 watt hours. I am not going to do the math any farther; it is obvious at this point that it takes more than 1/2 watt to heat up 10-20 liters for that 1-3 minute shower.
Dalen was talking about the electricity used for running the logic board on a gas boiler. Not the electricity to heat the water. @@krisspkriss
@@mwong000 Fair enough. I guess I was confused and thought he meant something else.
In a grid down situation though, the gas lines are turned off. You might think "my gas worked fine last time I was without power" and you would be correct. However, if the grid outage isnt local, then the infrastructure to monitor and maintain the gas delivery system will stop. Ask people in Texas what happened when their power went out but they thought "I still have gas heat!" Yeah... for several hours and then that stopped as well. And there were people near the Texas grid border that had gas the entire time.
@@krisspkriss If you are wondering if you still have gas, you may turn on one of the following devices if you have it -- gas stove (smell the gas), gas fireplace (listen for the gas coming out) , gas hot water heater (turn it up), or gas barbecue. Good luck!
If you have an induced draft one, like a condensating high efficiency one, the type with plastic vents, that's probably going to use a bit of electricity.
People who already have one or are thinking about getting one...yeah that pretty much covers everyone.
My advice is don't. House came with one that was only a year old. It's never worked properly. Hot water for maybe 1-2 minutes. Even professionals can't figure it out despite flushes every few months.
Happy to get this info, I always wondered what the draw backs were to tankless water heater, but doesn't really seem like much.
Litiviou Spartus. If you don’t have a very large tub the wife uses every day. Or you don’t have a large family like Mat does. A tankless is a waste of money for you. Plus when you turn on the hot water now at your furthest fixer. It will just about double that time. So you must take into the down side that your water waste will go up also.
I’ve been installing these things for over 30 years!
Tankless drawbacks: 1) They (tankless) cost more to install. Something like $700 tanked vs. $1200-1400 tankless. 2) It takes much longer for hot water to arrive at a faucet. 3) They make noise: a blower fan and some electronic clicking vs. near silence for a tank. 4) Tankless is a much more complicated appliance. This may or may not be a reliability and/or maintenance issue, but many people are technology shy. 5) Tankless may restrict hot water flow more than a tank arrangement.
Wally Kramer they definitely do restrict flow some, but most plumbers work that I’ve ever saw restricts flow more. At least in my area. They put fittings at every bend in pex, which is why I plumbed my new house myself. For some reason they treat it as if it’s hard pipe and doesn’t bend smoothly 90+ degrees.
Perfect video. I’m staying with old school.
"Replace anode rods every couple of years" for tank maintenance? I guess that depends on your water quality. In my area North East of Atlanta our tanks can last for 15 to 20 years with no anode rod changes and by that time we just replace the tank. No one around here seems to be changing them.
Southwest MO you're lucky to get 10 years, usually they're 1/3 to 1/2 full of scale by the time you get there.
I don’t install tanklessfor the very reasons stated here my first 50;gal gas lasted 23 years power was off several times at length always had hot water never did anything but relight the pilot after we forgot to pay gas bill . Plain and simple water heaters don’t just reheat that often when not in use . I have had customers call on Friday with a leaking tank type that they turned off power and water to and Monday morning it was still hot enough to shower in although not the normal 140 degrees
I’m in Northeast Ohio and we get excellent water from Lake Erie so I have not experienced any of these problems, 15+ years so far with absolutely zero maintenance.
a lot of people I know are pushing close to 20 years on their water heaters. I never heard of replacing them every 8 year. That sounds excessive.
Lucky to 4 years out of a hot water tank here.
Using smart home tech and a wifi connected shower, you can program it to start turning the hot down after a certain time. Except for the master bath!!😃
Learned something new, thanks for these tips!
I tell all my customers about those cons and all the pros. Really, a flex line outside? Hard pipe baby☝️
Ya that gas job is disgusting. You can’t even do that where I’m from. It’s amazing how relaxed some codes are in different areas.
@@terdferguson1736 People stealing copper? Flex will break down due to UV.
I do plumbing in CA and we have to use flex lines on gas for earthquakes.. also you need 5 ft minimum pipe length between a gas regulator and tankless.
In California the inspector would make you change it out to a flex. I would check the paper work on that Tankless. There are only a few of them that can be supplied by 1/2 inch flex. Most are 3/4 plus the full flow 3/4 gas line. These things take a special large flex. Not that 1/2 gas block they have on that one!!
1/2 flex does not flow enough gas for a 199K burner
Fortunado _ really , that’s interesting.That would never fly here. We have to use swing joints which I don’t know, seems like a Sturdier and more aesthetically pleasing way while still providing for structural failure. we can flex dryer, stove, and fireplace inserts. But thanks for letting me know, i always find it interesting what codes other states have. From what I hear like MASS, CA has some of the most stringent codes.
This kind of reminds me of the old “Risinger Goes Rogue“ episodes!
I have 2 tankless gas water heaters, an old Bosch with pilot flame vented and a recent Rinnai direct-vent mounted outside as shown. If I lose electricity, I can switch valves to using the Bosch for the whole house. I added the Rinnai outside the rear bath so I didn't have to wait for hot water and to not waste water down the drain until then. If you have solar backup w/ batteries, it could manage to tiny draw of an e-ignition gas tankless. Never vinegar flushed my Bosch in 23 years, but soft water where I live.
Growing up, my buddy would would wake up an hour before he actually needed to wake up so he could get in the shower, lay down (in the shower), and fall back asleep (in the shower with the hot water running).
My son when he was younger would fall asleep in the tub. Water would be up to his ears. Scared the crap out of me the first time he did it. Since then I started calling his name every few minutes to make sure he was awake lol.
@@duganfr I’m like that too
wtf??
Installing these things is truly a Tankless job
Exactly what I was going to reply, glad I scrolled down, lol! I remember this line from a movie I saw with my kids a while back.
Womp womp womp
😂
Oh I get it 🤪
L o L 👍👍👍
I had my 50G propane hot water slug replaced in 2004. My home is 3BR 2.5 bath. I installed 3 Renai Propane heaters on each full bath and 1 for the kitchen and split to the 1/2 bath. Hot water in 33 seconds and during the holiday's hot water forever.
No power, no problem I have a Generac 15KW standby generator. I am also on a deepwater well which is also in the Generac.
5 minute shower? The kids? Maybe. The wife? She would say "sure, honey" and then kill me in my sleep that night.
5 minutes to soap, shave, shampoo, and rinse... bet Matt doesn't take 5 minute showers.
Your lucky, my wife would wake me up so I could see it coming
LOL
😄😄😄😄
3 years of living with a tankless. Regarding Matt's 3 things they didn't tell you.
In most places, power reliability is near 100% due to loop high voltage distribution and underground medium voltage distribution. If you live in an area with frequent power outages, a small battery backup (UPS) will suffice. But if you do I'd suggest you move.
The energy savings is overblown. It really comes down to standby losses and tank heaters are so well insulated that this is almost a thing of the past on a daily basis (if you pay for it) and if you're gone for days: shut it off. My exhaust temperature is 115-120F and my log mean delta T is just a few degrees so it's getting 90+% of the lower heating value out of the gas. Some tank hot water systems can get these low LMDT numbers as well.
I flush mine every 12 months. I spent $100 for a cheap sump pump and $12 for 2 short hoses. 4 gallons of vinegar and a pound of citric acid (chelates the calcium) costs $10 each time I do it. So once a year from start to finish it takes
We have one at work, and it sits in a utility closet in the break room. When that thing kicks on, it is LOUD!
I've had the same tankless unit (Bosch Aquastar) in my house for about 18 years now. It has worked perfectly and with no problems the entire time. Mine continues to work even if the power is out so if that is important to you shop around, not all require electricity. In addition, adjust the outgoing water temperature during the course of the year so that the outgoing hot water is just about the temperature needed for a hot shower without mixing in any cold water. You do not want to run these with scalding hot water that is then diluted with cold water at the faucet or showerhead. You lose efficiency doing it that way. I think that also minimizes scale, I have only cleaned mine once during the whole 18 years and I am not even sure it needed it then. My gas bills dropped noticeably when I had this installed to replace the old 40 gallon tank in my house. Been a long time but at the time I recall somewhere around $25/month.
Maybe a gas tankless is O K, but I'm an electrician and I saw one installation where the handyman who installed it connected 3-40A circuits to a condo electric panel which was maxed at 125A. (Add it up) This left only a few amps for everything else. The owner had to turn off 2 of the units to have A/C or to cook. The incomming service could not be increased. With only one unit working, he was left with a trickle of lukewarm water. He had to put a tank type back in. Before you purchase an electric tankless water heater, make sure you have sufficient electric available.
I owned a Dry Cleaning plant that also laundered shirts and was replacing one of my two 100 gallion tanks each year. I switch to a tankless system set at 160* and washed shirts and laundry for 5 hours a day. My gas bill was cut in half and when I sold the plant seven years later it was still running efficiently with only two service calls in the time I owned it.
Sweet !!!
Wonder what the pressure to the building was, or was it mechanical failure and not leaks/breaches causing the problems?
Don’t forget the maintenance tankless demands not worth the savings.
The 4th thing...Plug it into a surge protector, I lost 2 computer boards on 2 different units.
are you talking about those big 50amp electric water heaters? aren't those hard wired???
Sasquatch 2001 Yeah, you have to run a fatter cable to the house for these things.
@@jon4715 I'm lucky, I upgraded to 200amp while back and my daughter moved out!
@@matt8863 That's interesting, I never really thought about that. Definitely going to have to get one for mine! Also smart to use a cheap computer UPS system - it handles surge protection and will give you a few hours of hot water after the power goes out.
Doesn't your power company give you compensation when you lose stuff due to a power surge?
They have to do that here => somehow they manage to have almost no surges in the grid ;)
my 75 gal gas water heater just died after 8 1/2 years - leaked water everywhere. and it was apparently running non-stop for a couple of weeks because the power vent ran continuously. I couldn't find a replacement anywhere and called 5 different plumbers. I was able to find a tankless and had it installed. I have a water softener system as well. Good to see this video and know that I need to do maintenance every year- no problem as I maintain the water softener every year and can do them both at the same time. My tankless is inside my basement, 199,000 btu and 10 gpm. However, I don't see the link above to your maintenance video.
Great info but you don't discuss electric tankless. The installation requires a separate circuit which can be expensive to install and may not be feasible for those people with small incoming power feed.
The Tankless we have in Australia has batteries to light the pilot, they on average last a year or so.
In Mexico we have it that way too
Very interesting information guys, thanks I am going to look into that.
Generator? I have used a battery backup for the tankless and it has worked flawlessly. Use of natural gas dropped by 77% with the tankless install vs tank so it paid for itself in 24 months. The maintenance on mine was nil as all water went through a KINETCO water filtration & softening system. Just for information I did clean the system, easier than doing laundry. 14 years going strong!
One is my favorite benefits is being able to drink your instantly heated water (which I'd never do with a storage system).
My biggest con is that they need a minimum rate of flow in order to kick in (otherwise they'd overheat), meaning that you can't just dribble a little hot water at your kitchen sink or have a very lukewarm shower. At least, that's how mine were anyway.
Did you have to install a pump too - I did not install one - since the replacement tank was about $1000 cheaper for me - but I read that for the size of my house, from the basement, i had to put some type of water pump to get the water up to the higher levels of the house.
That’s not how they run in the last 20 years. Yes - you need full hot water flow to turn system on. But once it ignites you can back off the flow and add cold at the faucet to get a lukewarm shower or whatever. I had 3 in my 5000 sq ft house with 5 bathrooms. Plus 3 gas furnaces and a heated pool / hot tub. Gas bill was never over $45 in summer and $100 in the winter months. That beats my electric bills with dual hot water tanks in previous homes. My other houses had hot water tanks and they failed just after 2-3 years. Full of sediment/broken elements/leaky pressure relief valves. Not to mention hot water tank seam failure in an attic that floods the whole house. This video is a lie about service requirements.
@@arnoldtarbooz1420 Mine was a single story house and it ran just fine on mains pressure (no auxilliary pump).
@@Swordsfor200Alex Re "That’s not how they run in the last 20 years", glad to hear that this issue has been resolved. Mine was only installed in 2010 but perhaps we're a bit behind on this tech 'down under'.
I have an electric 40 gal heater upper thermostat lower thermostat two elements and I love it
Great episode!
what about Solar Water Heaters?
We have had similar units in the uk for a few decades. Ours are known as combi boilers. They heat the radiators and the hot water on demand via a diverter valve within the boiler. He radiator water circuit is heated directly by the burner, then if hot water is called for, the diverter valve sends the radiator water through the plate heat exchanger, which heats the potable hot water for the taps.
Here in the uk all gas appliances must be serviced, or at least safety checked, annually. We typically pay around £50 ($90 i think) for this on a boiler. They check the gas and flue seals, the flue gas composition, the gas pipework integrity, and take apart the burner to clean it. The burners and heat exchangers on ours are usually stainless steel. The best thing about them is that you only heat what you need. Increasingly larger houses with multiple bathrooms are having tanks fitted back in because our combi boilers struggle with more than one outlet being opened. Typical ratings are 24-40kw. And if we fitted ours outside the scrap men would steal them before you could blink!
Do american gas appliances have to be condensing flues now? In the uk it is compulsory as they are up to 98% efficient. It extracts heat from the flue gas so the flue runs so cold they are made of plastic now.
All US 95% HE heaters are condensing. It would never achieve 95% or more without condensing
RE: Power outage. An uninterruptible power supply seems perfect for this. The power draw is minimal. A really small UPS should keep it up for hours.
@@OOCFM it's a gas water heater. How much power do you think it takes to light the burner?
@@tscook10 You are right, My bad, I was thinking about running the Unit Not just the ignitor. my bad.
Here in OZ I have had my tankless for 15 years not a problem, never serviced. In my previous home I went through 2 HW storage units in 15 years.
Do the maths.
Problem is US supplied tankless are cheap Chinese junk. Not nice German made ones. ;)
With a water softener I flushed mine twice since owned over 10 yrs, as a precaution. No more bloody burst gas water heater ever again. The tankless are so much more cost effective! Either pay for 1 tankless price or the 40 years I’ve been here I would’ve paid for 4 gas heaters, do the math.
@@ross9481 I didn't know tankless came out 40 years ago. Same with tankless, a tank water heater need to do a little maintenance too. Yes you did not know that. I did the math. I have my tank water heater for 20 years, no issue. When power outage, I can still take my hot shower. Unlike the video from someone who not expert in water heater saying "oh I still have the warm water in the tank" 80-90 percent water heater in residential are non electric powered.
Here do the math. An old house has old plumbing systems. Bare minimum of gas deliver thru the house. To upgrade to tankless: change the gas piping system to proper working at FULL capacity (tankless at high working power need high volume of gas) sharing with other appliances at the same time decrease that volume. Like in the video plumber will have to run a new short piping for gas to the new location, and run new water plumbing to the location. Go ask plumber how much will it cost you.
If you have a problem with it you can always call the Lollipop Guild.
@@dumboyoyo5245 A simple Google Search would've proved that I was right, Tankless Water Heaters have been around since 1929, that's over 90 years ago!!! They've been in use in the EU long before here in N.America. With a water softener in accompaniment there will be literally no maintenance. We have a full basement, lots of copper plumbing, no need to add any thing extra. I've seen in the US looks like some are installing these outside of the home, I wouldn't do that. Take care. www.neyerplumbing.com/blog/water-heater-service/a-short-history-of-the-amazing-tankless-water-heater/
1. As for my tankless it needs no outside electric for the pilot, it starts with D cell batteries as soon as you turn on the water. It does take a few minutes for the hot water to get to you, but so does the water from a tank. Ok, it is a portable unit but I use it full time in my RV. 2 Since it is being used in an RV I don't worry about it saving me a lot of money on my energy bill. Besides it runs on propane and I use 20# bottles. I will be going to a 40# bottle soon. 3 Never done any maintenance on mine. Maybe I need to?
Having said all that I have to say if I was using a full house unit I would need to know all the info you gave in your video. Thanks for putting it online.
During the freeze here in Texas, countless home owners had issues with their TWH's. I'll stay with legacy.
I've got an old Bosch THW that has no electronics. It has a pilot light. When an ice storm knocked out the power for 10 days I had endless hot water, it was nice. Now, that I need to replace it, I was disappointed to learn they don't make these any more. They're all electronically controlled and need power. I feel that's actually a loss of nice feature.
Only because they’re outside the home 😂 Might be nice in the heat of summer to help with heating water, but useless for a cold snap.
Texas should’ve listened to the suggestions to Winterize their systems.
I had one installed in my house in Michigan. The installation went perfect but I lost water pressure because the water coming out of the ground was too cold and the unit could not make Hot water best enough. I wish I could have one but I can’t. Thanks for the video
I find this video’s claims to be untrue for me. My outdoor tankless came with the house used (5 yrs?) and I’ve personally used it for 3 yrs. I never run out of hot. (Dishes, shower, sink) Not hooked up to electricity-use ordinary battery for ignition. The unit costs $130 on Amazon nw. They have many models/make like that. 2 person household. NEVER been seviced. Works fine. Love it!!!
I really appreciate all your videos, you’ve saved me from going down idiot lane many times.😊
Two things you neglected to discuss are choosing the size of the unit based on climate zone, as well as the differences between gas and electric units.
Right, water inlet temperature is a major factor. Low water temperature reduces your max flow for a given temperature rise.
I’m all for conserving, but a 5 min shower...really. It takes me more than 5, but under 10.
It depends on what I’m showering for. If I’m headed to bed I take a longer shower to relax and help ease some of the pain from a series of herniated discs. If I am short on time I can be in and out in 1 minute, just hitting the important parts. In basic training we learned to shower quickly. It really sucks having soap residue on you all day because you couldn’t wash it off.
for the guys. the women need more time.
You've obviously never served in the Navy.
FINALLY! A plumber who isn't stuck in the old school way of thinking regarding tankless.
A friend uses a computer backup power supply (UPS) for the ignitor when the power goes out. Works fine.
I was just thinking a small battery backup with an inverter would solve that.
I’m watching this during the Texas snowmageddon, so our power has been off and on for 3 days. I’m wishing I had battery backup for LOTS of critical circuits.
Some tankless units have a tiny hydro generator to power the ignition.
That must have a standing pilot light
Linwizz What about combustion air? They can't be natural draught given the power output, you need serious air to burn 200,000 BTUs of gas.
I agree, the gas line is a disaster. Also installing out side unprotected, is only for very temperate climates, this should be reinforced more.
In my case where all I have is electric service no gas an all electric tankless often time takes 2-3 40-50 amp breakers. I'll go heat pump water heater instead when the time comes.
Worth it. Especially in smaller homes, you will never go near that amperage with just a thing or two running hot water.
@@icantfinditdammit Ive found otherwise. keep in mind that an all electric house also has electric space heating equipment. and I am more than happy with my heat pump water heater.
however, the thing they don't tell you about THOSE is that they need a viable drain, either into the septic or outside.
Scott, if you buy a tankless heater that has, typically, 2-D size batteries for the spark. Some tankless are equiped with a mini-generator, run by water flow, to make electricity and give you the spark for ignition. So, the gas tankless will operate when the electric is down.
Not sure how I feel about these “limitations”.
1) how often is your power going out that this is a problem? If your power is that flakey, then a solar panel is a great mitigation option here, even more so than a generator.
2) kids having long showers isn’t a fault of the system, but rather kids not having boundaries. Even still, tankless main savings come during winter when you’re not trying to keep 300L of water hot when it’s freezing outside. And you’re more likely to see a rise in water consumption before the cost of gas to heat gets you.
3) this is more a limitation on your city’s water supply than the unit itself. If you’ve got scale issues from hard water, it’s gonna cause havoc for all systems, not just tankless.
I’ve used both systems, but if I ever have to overhaul my water system, the first addition is a tankless unit.
Maybe we’re just blessed in Australia to not have issues with water or electricity supply.
Agreed on all the points - also, what difference does a pilot light make vs the one that doesn't have it? If you don't have AC power, pilot light is not going to help you run the electronics and the water pump.
@@Dxun2 If you depend on a well maybe but city water systems supply the pressure .
@@rydfree fair enough but you still need power for the electronics and microprocessors. Do they have a dynamo running off of water pressure? That seems unlikely
There are MANY tankless heaters that run on batteries. I have 2 and they run on 2 D cell batteries. I replace the batteries every 6 months and that is only because I do not want to be with hot water. The batteries are still working when I replace them
@@allanc3655 Without maybe?
SHTF= Standing Pilot System beats the ELECTRONIC Version
That was very helpful Matt. Thank you so much for your time and making this video. After watching this, I don't believe tankless water heaters for me.
Thank you! Could you do a video on what to do if you go on a winter vacation away from home and have a tankless heater?
I had a problem where the minimum flow rate on the water heater was higher than the my low flow faucet. Kind of defeats the purpose of trying to save water.
same here. the amount of water we need to do dishes to get our POS Nortiz to turn on causes a giant mess and forces us to waste a ton of water. then there's the sporadic hot/cold spells in the showers. the worst purchase of my life...
I installed my tankless 10 years ago by myself and the kit even came with a backup battery system to keep it running while powers out. My water is pretty hard and don't have a water softener I only have to clean my tankless once every 18 months every 12 months isn't worth it when there isn't that much scale although it's also not my main source of hot water because I use an outdoor wood boiler unit for the hot water and radiant heat during the winter but even still I'm in the country and have a 500lb propane tank that's hooked up to the tankless system along with a fireplace and shop heater in the garage and that tank only needs filling once a year. These tankless hot water systems nowadays are alot more efficient than the one I have so I find it hard to believe that they are more expensive and need more maintenance than one that's 10 years old
Hard water with a softener. I installed a tankless water heater above 6 yrs ago and I'm just getting ready to descale it now. But not because we feel we need to? But because we're told we need to by the descaleing companies lol. We'll see soon if it's nessasary ?
What equipment is needed to clean the tank? This is the most important information.
How about Rinnai tnk systems that stop making hot water during a freeze?
I priced these units out during an extensive remodel, I could not justify the cost vs a new natural gas 100 gallon water heater, and then the maintenance. Just two adults in the house, I went with the 100 gallon tank.
Switched over in 2009. It looked then like natural gas prices were going to go up - but then they went way down. Will never get my money back that way. Might have a chance on longevity though as the unit is 11 years old and has not missed a beat. With the average life of a hot water tank around 10 years if this one makes it 20 years then not having to buy and install another conventional tank will help with the savings.
@@chupposity I hear you there... It was the install cost and then maintenance... Like you, looking at ROI, just wasn't there in my case.
I live in a small camper trailer. The old propane unit thermo couple went bad and the tank was in serious need of replacement. I bought a Tankless, about the size of a cigar box....from China. $45 bux. I've got endless hot water now and really enjoying this thing. Who knows how long it will last? Who cares?
Most important thing to know before purchasing a tankless unit is your Winter Water Temperature like February in Philadelphia. I tested my water in Feb. and it was 38*F. Now you have to heat the water to aprox. 115*. They always advertise how many showers can run at one time on Florida water Temps. of 70* incoming water temp. It may say 4 showers can run. But NOT in Feb.! Maybe 2 showers if you buy the right size!!!!!!!!! I have a Noritz NRC-98-Nat Gas since 2011! No I'm not a Plumber. I'm an Electrician!
2 minute Navy showers...And either scalding hot or cold.
I feel that is how my shower is now. get in and get out...cant guarantee if it will be hot or cold lol
Small battery backup (UPS).
Im really glad you mentioned the power first thing!
3 years ago when our hot water heater needed to be replaced, I wanted a tank less water heater.
1. On an older house your going to have major issues.
A. You need to larger natural gas pipes
B. The exhaust system needs to be replaced from an aluminum pipes to a steel pipes due to the heat generated unless your units outside
2.The down side is the cost of a water heater and if your older than 55 years it's not worth the cost
Yeah me too, tankless just wasn't worth it.
Thankless is in use more than 50 years in Europe. In Turkey, %100 of houses use both water heating and house heating with same thankless unit and it is called Combi(Kombi)
I love my tankless water heater. The initial outlay was a bit pricey but well worth it! There was a big difference in my electric bill. Remember there are electric and propane tankless water heaters.
What part of the country do you live in?
@@dustinpomeroy8817 I live in Mid-Tennessee, though am currently in Florida taking care of an ailing relative
Oh, I wondered if they had electric ones. Wonder how they work? They will all be electric soon if Democrats have their way. In my situation I would prefer the electric over gas. I would not by a gas anything now as it may be banned at any time.
Got rid of tankless water heater and my teenage sons 1 hr long showers.
Install a 10gal RV W/H. Fastest showers ever!
Wtf do they do in the shower for an hour.
Regret life choices.
@@RichWomack Nah, go with the standard 6gal instead. They learn to save water really quick.
Obviously you have no control over your children, the shower time of your child is dictated by the parent. Not a good excuse.
@@dano8613 Control? How about creating a relationship with your children in which they are on board with conserving for the good of the family like many kids who live on a farm get to learn. I think that's much better than "control" and complete lack of any understanding on the teenagers part about his/her actions are costing the family.
My experience issues with tankless:
1. Even a microsecond blackout or brownout will turn the unit OFF. And I have to go and manually turn it ON again to get it running.
2. There is a Minimum water flow before the heater will kick in. Below that level and it will not heat the water because it will get overheated beyond the set temperature or the max temperature.
3. If the inlet water is too warm (as in the summer) the it will heat it past the set temperature or shut it down if it goes past the max temperature. In those cases, you need to run more water than you want in order for it to heat it to the set temperature.
I live alone and installing a tankless water heater reduced my gas consumption in the summer by about 75%. So, a tankless system might make sense for those of us who use little hot water, because it really reduces the gas consumption. It might also make sense to those of us who use a lot of hot water because it provides unlimited amounts. Maybe for the average user the savings are not as big?
I live alone & also use very little hot water. I have a conventional 30 gallon natural gas water heater with a 3" vent to the chimney. I set the gas valve to pilot, put a cover over the vent outlet to essentially plug the gases from escaping & let the pilot light heat the water. It heats the water to about 120 degrees over about 3 days & only burns the minimum amount you'd be charged for anyway. Saves me a bundle.
I live alone too and need new water heater, i don't use much hot water at all and my gas bills have gone up a lot during cold winter, first my plan was to replace my tank water heater with a thankless , now I'm really skeptical, not sure if thankless is cost effective in long run, it can fail and i won't be abler to fix it myself, it costs me twice more than tank to install it initially, still researching , but, I'm not sold on tank-less yet.
@@MarcFun You are bringing up two very good points! Here is my experience so far: Tankless heaters seem to be fairly long-lived and low maintenance, so I didn't yet have to call a repair service in the 7 or so years I've owned it. I also installed it myself, that cut down on the initial cost a lot. However, it's definitely more difficult to install. My very rough guess is that it will probably take me about 8-10 years until the water heater has paid for itself. I am expecting it to last 20 years or more, so hopefully it will work. Your numbers may look different, though.
5 minute showers? man wouldn't want this guy to be my dad
My step dad was a shower time nazi. There is the flip side. If you don't say anything they'll spend in hour in the shower.
Ahhh for someone who never showered after PE.
I wouldn’t either, he’s an idiot. He knows just enough to make TH-cam videos.
Signed,
A master plumber.
Whoever did that gas line connection is a savage 😂😂😂 I would never do something like that but that’s just me
Getting my teenage son to take a actual shower (with soap) where he does more than just gets wet and hops out is my challenge.
just get a teenage girl to make a disparaging comment about his smell, that will do it
Hot soap probably hurts his pimples.
I recently moved into a house with one of those units, and lately, I've been thinking about doing some research about maintenence and service intervals, so when I saw this, I remembered.
Look into a chili pepper pump. Press the button when the pump stops in usually 30 to 45 seconds you now have hot water at your fixture. You could put it in the bathroom and or kitchen - saves a ton of water. (Best suited if you are in a drought area where water is expensive)
5-minute showers? I never knew that existed as a concept.
Never served on a submarine, have you?
@@armick57 SIR!!! - NO SIR, I HAVE NOT!!! And if I did, sir, I would be taking only 4-minute showers because I would be the most outstanding and disciplined marine that the world has ever seen, sir!
@@KeepingOnTheWatch either you are a troll or totally ignorant of the US Armed forces. Either way, a submarine shower is : get in, wet down (5 seconds) , lather, rinse (max 30 seconds).
So while you may be in the shower for five minutes the actual amount of water used is minimal.
@@KeepingOnTheWatch by the way, marines don’t serve on submarines, sailors do...
@@armick57 I doubt I’ll be able to take such short showers.