Everything is FALLING APART! | Remember Them/My Goodbye - Epic: The Musical | Reaction/Analysis
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ก.ค. 2024
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Intro: (0:00)
Remember Then - Reaction/Analysis: (3:46)
My Goodbye - Reaction/Analysis: (16:08)
Outro: (29:10) - เพลง
Reminder that the alternate animatics for the Cyclops Saga are available over on Patreon, and will remain there as an exclusive!
Cyclops Saga Alt - www.patreon.com/posts/patreon-cyclops-99939799
Ocean Saga pt1 - www.patreon.com/posts/epic-storm-luck-100826019
Ocean Saga pt2 - www.patreon.com/posts/epic-keep-your-100826017
Ocean Saga will be recorded this weekend, available for $10 patrons as soon as it’s recorded, $3 patrons as soon as it’s edited, and you lovely TH-cam folks starting next week ☺️
I’m enjoying this journey through this musical so very much, thanks to all of you who have been here with me for it!
Luck Runs Out is one of my FAVOURITES on the Ocean Saga, but your reaction to Ocean Saga Keep Your Friends Close…..Should be interesting…you DEFINITELY need to sit down for that one.
I’m looking forward to seeing your reaction with the Circe Saga(underworld saga is next)
Great background.
"Wolfy. Wolfy when I catch you."
Everyone's reaction to Wolfy's animatics. Welcome to your graduation.
Bro I died
"This is not the time to start being sassy to your divine sugar mama"
~ Mortius 2024
That made me CACKLE 🤣🤣
The way I got speechless, you could have seen my spirit going to the river styx. However, he has a point. She is our devine sugar mama 😏
Haha best comment ever!
So impactfull I had to share with my friendgroup XD
I literally almost choked on a cracker and died I laughed so hard XDDD
Prolly the best line in 2024😂
"you gave him a name!" *google dial up noises followed by a lightbulb exploding* "oh" *realisation sets in* "oh no. OH NO." (poseidon: *bursting though the wall* "OH YES!")
also, athena is the goddess of wisdom in *war* (as well as arts and crafts), not emotional intelligence 🥲
🤣
I read Poseidon in the Kool-aid man's voice😂❤
@@BioshockChar the way nature intended 👍😏😂
I energy thought about the fact she not the goddess of GENERAL wisdom but WARTIME wisdom. Which would also explain why she’s a little insensitive towards his comrades.
for real tho she turned someone into a spider 'cause they made a better tapestry than her one time, she's got the emotional intelligence of a blueberry muffin
one thing I NEED you to know about "Remember Them" is that that sentiment is even more heartbreaking than you think it is. In ancient Greece, they believed that, without a proper funeral rite, souls could not pass on to the underworld. They would not have the fee with which to pay Charon to cross over the river Styx, thus dooming their soul to be stuck in the mortal realm. So not only is Odysseus saying that they don't have time to grieve them and/or respect their bodies, he's saying the best they can do for their souls is to remember them, as they will never be able to pass on. This song absolutely breaks me because of this
Omg…. I never realized this. Omg how did I never realize that…
As I remember, yes they can cross the river of Charon, but only after thousands of years waiting.
@@anniefemmas5097 if you find yourself in the underworld with some spare change, be sure to hand it out to someone who is waiting.
@@speedy01247 Yep
OMG, I never thought about that, oh damn. OH DAMN!
18:43 “Are both of you stupid?” Is ICONIC. I ask myself that every time I hear this song
No but they are both hubristic and neither will back down
tbf to Athena, she's a goddess far removed from emotional maturity, and tbf to Ody, he just went through the most traumatic moment of his life thusfar. not exactly the best people to have a heart to heart conversation
@@user-kx8pu6ys5iTrue!
Either A. Kill the monster
B. Do NOT tell them your name. Gods are petty as hell
Especially since Poseidon is known to be more protective of his children.
they are very selfish, prideful and vain ;)
And Odysseus chose neither
He was literally gonna kill Polyphemus in the song before it, then he just decides, nah, let’s not do it
@@1katari “six hundred lives at stake, its just one life to break. and when we kill him then our journey’s over”
-Odysseus.
“what good would killing do, when mercy is a skill more of this world to learn to use?”
-Odysseus, talking about the same cyclops to Athena.
Not only did Odysseus give his name, he gave his IP address too. "I'm the reigning king of Ithaca," telling exactly where he lives and who he's in charge of. "I am neither man nor mythical, I am your darkest moment, I am the infamous Odysseus," also tells you exactly how he views himself- not as an ordinary man, not as a god, but as something to fear, as something dangerous. Hubris in the face of a monster he spared for what he believed to be mercy, when he only possessed these qualms when Polites perished. A double standard of morals given his hesitant willingness to kill Astyanax (the infant) and his flippant attitude towards Polyphemus (instead of genuinely apologizing for killing his sheep, he says it's a misunderstanding and wants to bargain instead. Proposes it's a gift and a trade, instead of the genuine mistake that it was, only wanting to do the bargain when Odysseus realized they were in trouble. And when Polyphemus did start attacking, Odysseus had zero qualms with killing Polyphemus, only faltering in it with Polites' demise).
In a world where gods are fickle and pick sides, mercy and hesitancy are killers. You never know what monster, army, person of higher status, normal person, or creature has a tie to a deity. All it takes is getting the wrong kind of attention to ruin generations of your lineage. Polites had his heart in the right place, but lived in the wrong time to effectively use it. Once you've killed in those times, you set a reputation to uphold, good or bad; "The blood on your hands is something you won't lose, all you can choose is whose." By killing in the Trojan War and finishing it off with the killing of innocent baby Astyanax, others- including gods- would have the expectation that Odysseus will do whatever it takes to win. What he does with Polyphemus is no victory. It's personal revenge, doling out a torture he sees fit. It's not vengeance nor justice, as killing the cyclops would've accomplished that. It's not honor nor mercy to leave a monster blinded when you have the availability to finish him off. Had Odysseus killed Polyphemus, it would've been an honorable victory. Had Odysseus not revealed his name, the dishonor wouldn't be traceable. It's purely the fact Odysseus let his hubris win in this situation that makes things worse. And really, pride is by far his fatal flaw. He sees himself above others as clever and someone who knows without a doubt how to do the right thing, hence his disagreement with Athena, the Goddess of Wisdom.
TLDR; Odysseus really let his hubris win and gave Polyphemus all the right info to pass along that the reigning king of Ithaca believed himself to be the last say on justice, in a world where pettiness is at an all time high. How he expected nothing to come of this just speaks volumes to how long Odysseus had deluded himself of the superiority of his wit.
Edit for specifically for My Goodbye: "One day you'll hear what I'm saying. One day you might understand. One day, but not today. For after all, you're just a man," has a handful of different implications. Given how Odysseus viewed himself in his own proclamations to Polyphemus, this is Athena reminding Odysseus that he IS still a man, directly contradicting Odysseus's own, "I am neither man nor mythical. I am your darkest moment. I am the infamous Odysseus." Odysseus himself tends to be fickle on what he views himself as in any given situation. "I'm just a man who's trying to go home, even after all these years away from what I've known. I'm just a man who's fighting for his life; deep down I would trade the world to see my son and wife. I'm just a man... but when does a comet become a meteor? When does a candle become a blaze? When does a man become a monster? When does a ripple become a tidal wave? When does the reason become the blame? When does a man become a monster?" (Just a Man, Trojan saga). "Sounds like a plan, goddess and man, bestest of friends!" "We'll see where it ends." "Okay..." (Warrior of the Mind, Trojan saga). "What's a title that a goddess could lend if I never sleep at night? I'll remind you I saw you as a friend, but now we're done," (My Goodbye, Cyclops saga).
When it came to killing someone he didn't want to? He's just a man, but hey, it needs to be done. When it came to a goddess willing to teach him? Oh we're equals, we're friends, I'm going to ignore your claim to mentorship (putting Athena at the position of power) and instead view us on the same level. Oh, you don't want to continue helping me? That's fine, I viewed us as equals but you're in the wrong for viewing our relationship differently, go find someone else to bother. Odysseus has a very flippant attitude towards the gods; he's willing to kill Astyanax on Zeus's orders but unwilling to kill Polyphemus on Athena's. He's willing to leave a cyclops alive as personal revenge for his fallen friends, but unwilling to understand why his patron goddess was against that, instead blaming Athena's frustrations on her immortal detachment as opposed to her ill-worded but genuine advice. Odysseus thinks Athena is abandoning him because he's human, when the reality is she's abandoning him because he let his emotions get the better of him and was unwilling to think about the long-lasting impact his heat of the moment inaction with Polyphemus would bring. Hence Athena saying he'll understand one day, but not today thanks to his humanity.
Odysseus did the Iron Man 3 meme with Tony Stark blasting out his address on national news, with both being equally surprised about the outcome 😅
Your analysis was fantastic!!
The fact that Athena and Odysseus were mentor and student and that she was a goddess and he a human doesn't mean that they couldn't be friends, and Athena didn't really seem opposed to that idea when Odysseus boldly expressed that in "Warrior of the Mind", that's because she really wasn't and she in the end ended up trusting Odysseus and being fond of him and considering him her friend, but in "My Goodbye" they had a fall out, and you know how people can be and what they can say when they have arguments and fall outs, they can hurt each other and say things that really aren't true and that they don't really mean or feel to even their loved ones, people who they appreciate and that are important to them, and we can also see this further in future songs in the songs with Odysseus' son Telemachus and Athena, Telemachus quickly considers Athena in the song "We'll be fine" his friend who had previously been watching him and came to his aid and gave him a taste of what he wanted, and Athena had no problem with that, she in fact considered him her friend too, and we can see this too being said in "God Games" when Athena chastises and shuts up Ares because she isn't going to allow him to speak badly of her friend Telemachus, who she herself with her own words calls her friend, and who is obviously still weaker, younger and far less experienced than his father and isn't any exceptional "Warrior of the Mind" like she wanted and considered Odysseus, Athena also learns and becomes better as a person and goddess throughout the entire musical, she also has growth throughout the musical
Amazing comment ❤ Thank you for your time writing it
I expected this to be a comment, not an essay 😂
“Divine sugar momma” is the last thing I expected to hear but I love it
I audibly snorter
Both Athena and Odysseus have high IQ but very very low EQ
Fun note: at the very end, Athena sings “this is my goodbyyyyyye” in the same way she and odysseus sang “warriors of the miiiiiind” but the last time; she sings it the way she did before he intervened
"I am a good person. Therefore, I am better than you."
This is Odysseus's thought track leading to his demise.
Both mercy and hubris.
To be honest that sentence is totally right and the real world would be a far better place if everyone were good people, for goodness and mercy are what the world is lacking, the problem is when you let pride consume and corrupt what that sentence is supposed to mean or when you think yourself good when you really are not, there are people like that in real life, people that think that they are good when they really aren't, and that doesn't make them good only because they think they are, what's good is good and what's wrong is wrong, it doesn't matter what you believe or what you want to believe or how you live your life, they are written in stone and they are not created by humanity and they can't be changed, they are what they are and always will be, no matter how much things in general change, Odysseus was also very hurt and had an internal struggle raging inside him along with his great feeling of guilt, and all that broke him and got the better of him in the worst possible moment, and Athena's timing in her appearance didn't help at all and made everything worse, that was the final drop, that's what made him explode, if she hadn't appeared and talked to him right then and there he would have left with his crew and the sheep without revealing his name even though the Cyclops would have been left alive and Poseidon wouldn't have been able to know who he was nor how to locate him
@@doloresgronenberg5882 Right, but the story tries to pitch Odysseus' flaw as mercy, it's not, it's hubris.
Pride has him reveal his name to the Cyclops, pride has him turn away from Athena. Pride keeps him from properly groveling to Posiedon, etc.
Odysseus is very smart and is able to think himself out of any situation. But the flip side to that is he believes there's not situation he can't escape on his own.
If he wants to push mercy, that's fine, but then he also needs humility. If he wants to cling to his pride, then he has to be rutheless.
Unfortunately, the Greek's didn't often look too highly on the merciful and humble; so his story is going to push him to embrace ruthelessness.
@@yuukinoyuki9064 Uh..
What they said.
I not say Odysseus's a good person he kill a baby
So you're telling me that Zeus had a more accurate understanding of what Odysseus' main flaw is than Poseidon? The whole pride thing? I don't know what to think of this... @@yuukinoyuki9064
It's true. Jorge Rivera-Herrans revealed that when a human character has back up vocals then those vocals have to come from back ground characters that are already present in the story. If a god had back up vocals then they can just snap their fingers and create back singers easly. They have magic so they can break the 4th wall. The video that that he said this is actualy on TH-cam. Also, if you noticed, many of the characters have instroments and melody that represent them. Jorge said he did that on purpose. Odysseus has guitars, Athena has pianos, Penelopie has violins, Poseidon has trumpets, ect.
Athena also has clock ticking motif too!
One addition to this is that a god my decide to add the ensemble if they are vibing with what another character is saying, i.e. Odysseus and Athena in warrior of the mind
The one that really messes me up has to be in ruthlessness at the end where Poseidon uses the voices of the men he just killed
@@Legofan1259 Yup! I love those!
@@kooyanessa Yup! I always find that funny. Athena was feeling herself so she added thos behind Odysseus while he was singing her praise. LOL
Athena had such bad timing in remember them.
Odysseus had just lost his best friend,he's grieving and angry so he says his name to spite athena.
This backfires hard on him.
The lesson here is don't spite the gods.
They spite harder
@@AnonEMouse-ls7fp Don't spite, they're better at it. Don't pride, they're better at that, too. Basically don't f with the gods, they'll get on your level and beat you with experience...and lightning.
She is always having bad timing!
@@michellewest4796 Well in case of W E T H A D E S, its the entire ocean
adding a little extra here, so Odysseus says "I am your darkest moment" after BLINDING the cyclopes, just for little bit of extra disrespect in there
Poseiden says that in Ruthlessness too Wow
@@Lala14-zo5cwyeah to mock Odysseus right back
After saying 'seeing eye to eye' to a cyclopes... Jay's Odysseus is very punny
the guitar (classic AND electric) is actually Odysseus' instrument. Whenever you see Ody doing something, he is accompanied by the guitar
And, if Hermes is watching we hear a harp too
@@TelemachusAndJayLightningGodand if Athena is present or watching there's a piano. Something to be noted when ruthlessness comes aroundm
@@TelemachusAndJayLightningGod but we learned that today didn't we :D and it was a lyre
Important distinction, too - when Odysseus is being ruthless, angry, the perfect warrior we get the electric guitar. When he's being human, just a man, it's acoustic.
The musicality Jorge has is just flippin brilliant! What a great community! Thankyou Mortius for your great reactions
Fun fact. All cyclops are children of Pseidon
Not all the cyclops. Just the lesser ones. The Elder Cyclops are divine titans who now work for Hephaestus in crafting divine treasures.
ahem Poseidon you spelled it wrong! 😅
If athena had continued supporting oddy after that it likely would have lead to a conflict between her and posidon, that would potentially lead to a whole new war. So her leaving was probably for the best. Plus, in myth athena is known to be pridefull. Not killing an enemy was seen as weak or soft, and to be associated with the guy that caused a godly war because he was weak is not something she'd want.
Also, if I remember my mythology right, Poseidon and Athena are already at odds because Athens which was named in honor of Athena was a coastal town which was traditionally supposed to worship Poseidon. Since they instead worship Athena, this was an insult to Poseidon.
I interpreted it as Poseidon going “Oh, Athena left that one? Perfect, now I’m gonna strike.”
In Epic: The Musical a lot of the time it sets up Odysseus' fatal flaw to be he's "too soft" (as we see in Just a Man, My Goodbye and later), but I like how in Remember Them it gives a peak of what his fatal flaw was in the original myth: Hubris.
Odysseus could have killed the cyclops, hell he could have left him alive but not told him his name. What was the point in lying and saying his name was "Nobody", then turn around and say "I'm Odysseus! Remember me and where all my closest loved ones live!"? It wasn't a rational thing to do, but then again he wasn't thinking rationally. He was blinded by hubris. Original myth Odysseus did that a lot, do something clever then turn around and ruin it by being too full of himself.
He continues to do that, actually. His “apology” to Polythemus wasn’t really an apology, and he makes the same kind of non-apology later. He never once admits he’s wrong and tries to wiggle out of the situation. Also, “false righteousness”.
Anyone else notice the almost owl-like way that Athena moves and tilts her head? 🤔
Makes sense, given owls are often associated with her, I like that detail
I heard somewhere that this specific animator chose to have Athena show a lot of owl-like behaviours and traits bc owls are predators (callous, ruthless and emotionally detached) but also seen as wise and patient, which is why the owls are Athena's symbolic animal
@@hadrian3874 I love that. I knew the owl was her animal, so I love that the animator decided to give her those sorts of features or movements.
That's why that animatic is my favorite
A fun thing I wonder if you caught. In Warrior of the Mind, any time Athena alone does the high note on MIIIIND, it's a strong, held note. Then she meets Oddie who does his little run, and she starts mimicking him. She's affecting him, but he's affecting her, too. Here, it's flipped. Right at the end, she does his run on Goodbye right at the end. Then she abandons it on the last one and goes back to her strong, held solo note. Jay has said he did this on purpose.
ALSO! Imagine how all of us who'd heard the first two sagas felt when there was no Ocean Saga or even a release date in sight! Two more sagas and you'll be in the same boat. Treasure the knowledge that you still have more waiting!
That is such a cool detail that blew my mind a bit when I first noticed it. Really good indicator for their relationship. Watching this reaction I also noticed that Odysseus mimics Athenas version when he sings "is this what it means to be a warrior of the mind?" in "Remember Them". Whith just this change in melody it is made clear that he doesn't necessarily question his idea of a warrior of the mind, but Athena's.
Aaahhh, it's soo well written!!
I love that you call him Oddie, 10/10 nickname
fun fact! Odysseus's name basically means "guy who pisses you off"/"the anger bringer"!
LAMOOO
Good you know Ruthlessness because the throw backs it does to earlier songs and Poseidon mocking Odysseus are amazing! And I think Remember them is the first time we hear Odysseus's name. :D HOLY SHIT I HAVE NEVER NOTICED THE INFANT IN POLITES'S ARMS.
Me too! I noticed Polites, Penelope and his son but not the child! Its freaking cool
“Divine Sugar Mama” had me howling!
Lik note from 1 of Jay's videos
Athena does a run then holds her note in "My Goodbye" which is tge opposite of what she does in "Warrior of the Mind". This is because she did the run as she was fallowing Odysseus
In essence reversing the melody to be back to her self before working with Odysseus.
I noticed that! And also in "Remember Them" when Odysseus sings "Is this what it means to be a warrior of the mind?" he holds the note like Athena did, I guess to show that he questions her concept and not his own. This just shows that they have very different concepts of a "warrior of the mind".
"Are both of you stupid" well, Athena has way less to lose. Worst come to worst she could find someone else.
"I've been careful not to go onto Jorge's social media until I'm caught up." You're never gonna catch up tbh. He's pumping these out insanely and impressively fast. 😂
Can confirm, when a human is singing with backing vocals, it's always the crowd that are singing, like the crew in "Remember Them", but if a god is singing with backup vocals, it's just the power they have to summon whatever voice they need, like Athena does with the "Just a man" line.
Also, something that's a bit subtler, some characters have their own instruments, but noteably that instrument is allowed to change typing dependant on mood. Odysseus is represented by the guitar, but when he's in "war mode", it's specifically an electric guitar, while softer moments has him backed by an acoustic guitar, and very introspective guitars introduce a nylon guitar. Athena has a clock motif that keeps popping up when she's talking within Odysseus' mind (time stopped), Polites has playful instruments like the Kalimba and Marimba, and a character we've yet to meet is represented by a trumpet.
What I love is the genuine pain and emotions in Athena’s voice when she sings “You’re not looking for a mentor, I’m not looking for a friend.” It’s so raw - each had their own idea of what their relationship was, they wanted different things out of the relationship, this misunderstanding is so real.
And I mean, she is a goddess, she has a hard time connecting to a mortal and their emotions/experience because she’s just on another level. A blue and orange morality, if you will.
And the “One day, you’ll hear what I’m saying…” part… I’m not sure if it was the “you’re alone!” part that hurts her so, or if it’s the other way around. She’s not *lonely*, she’s a goddess with a goal, but Odysseus still doesn’t understand that - he’s just a man.
Hahahaha no spoilers or anything but it's only gonna get worst from here
🥺
Greek myth in a nutshell.
You could say it gets more ruthless
@@corevo7570 RUTH-LESS-NESS- IS MERCAYYH UPON YOURSEYLFS
@@corevo7570 I see what you did there!😂
When you get to the ocean saga you need to react to Ximena Natzel's Storm, Lampyrcy's luck runs out, Gigi's Keep your friends close, and Anniflamma's ruthlessness. These are the best animatics of each (also there's not many full animatics for the ocean saga)
I really like Gigi’s Ruthlessness as well!
Totally agree!
In Greek Mythology, Posiden is an absent father and in exchange often gives his children wishes. This is one such time. The Cyclops is a child of Posiden and the Cyclops will use his wish to get vengeance on a godly level.
Lesson of the story, never dox yourself on Twitter, your hubris will kill you.
11:46 i love that wen odicius say "wen mercy is a skill more of this world could lear to use" on the animation he opens his arms...... i love you wolfythewich ;-;
"What, are you gonna be mad that he didn't kill the eldritch horror in front of him?!" Yes. Yes, actually.
And I think that Odysseus's answer to Athena's demand to kill Polyphemus is partially Polites's ideals and partially Odysseus's own guilt from, you know, the events of "The Horse and the Infant". Plus, let's be fair - they risked way too much to just be able to blind Polyphemus. Imagine how much they'd lose by trying to kill him now when he's awake again. He may be blind, but he's still dangerous, so while Athena is correct that killing Polyphemus would probably have been the best choice, they simply don't have the ability to do so now when he's no longer unconscious.
But man, I still get chills when I see the cyclops's smile at the end of that animatic, it frigging terrifies me - and especially knowing what's coming in the Ocean saga! Odysseus made a massive mistake!
As for "My Goodbye"... Look, we know Odysseus has a very bad habit of pissing off gods and goddesses and whatnot, but calling Athena "selfish and prideful and vain" to her face when she's outright telling him he fucked up is a bad idea. Of course, he's emotional, he's just experienced a major loss and a pretty damn traumatic event and he's lashing out, but... As you said, buddy really needs to consider the fact that he is speaking to a literal goddess and insulting her to her face. Odysseus is not very good at keeping his mouth shut, though.
Thank you so much for such a wonderful video! I really look forward to seeing you react to the Ocean saga!
Idk if youve already seen it on your Patreon but you NEED NEED NEED to see Mircsy's Animatic for My Goodbye, it put such a delicious spin on the back and forth between Athena and Odyseus and just makes everything so much more raw and heartwrenching
Yep, that one is in my patron-exclusive alternate animatics video!!
I need to get my ass over to the Patreon
Am i the only one who doesn't like thay interpretation? Like, animation is nice, and i like Mircsy's other animatics really much, but i just don't see "My goodbye" being fight in general, much less with Odysseus holding his own against a goddess and him walking away
@@danylonazarov I agree. The song is very much “standing, walking in circles and yelling at each other”, not “raging and trading blows”.
I guess the “holding his own” thing is fine ‘cause it’s meant to be an imaginary/magical space, but still, all the vibes are wrong for that particular animatic.
The part where you just, paused. Turn to your (I assume) right and goes “Athena this is not the time to abandoned him” and then goes the other way to Odysseus and went “and YOU. This is not the time to be sassy to your sugar divine mama!” Sounds so much like a therapist during a family therapist kind of thing
I literally laugh so hard at the mental image of you, drawn out 2D and literally talks to Athena and Odysseus on what NOT TO DO like they're mother and son
Also, yeah, Mr. Jalapeno said it himself, when there's a chorus of voices and the one singing it is human, then that voices is real. But to any gods this rule don't apply as-they're gods. They can be seen and perceived when they wished to! Basically.
I want to shout you out as being the person who very specifically inspired my newest video. Like, I sent Mircsy a screenshot OF your comment. Thank you ☺️ th-cam.com/video/rYO9_RCDlM4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ZB-v8lT4mf5cASxd
i think jorge mentioned this somewhere, but whenever odysseus is accompanied by an electric guitar, it's when he's being cold and calculating. when he's accompanied by an acoustic one, it's when he's being vulnerable and soft
I'm not sure if you noticed, but "I am the infamous... ODYSSEUS" is the first time in the entire musical that his real name is spoken. Up until that moment, he's just "Captain" and "a boy" and "my friend"
The backing vocals things is true and fun fact, every time Athena speaks to Odysseus she is stopping time. You can hear that classic "tick tock" sound in the music during Athena's song's so far.
I never usually comment on reaction videos but I have to say your reactions to EPIC have been SO entertaining!! I’ve never seen another reactor who takes the time to analyze not only the plot but the music AND vocal performances! Not to mention you theorize deeper meanings behind lyrics and choices by the artists!! Keep up the stunning work!
I agree 🎉
Just wanted to pop this info down for the Ocean Saga;
There is one only animatic for each the first two songs (from what I could find someone correct me if I’m wrong) that use the full version of the songs because its a relatively recent release, Ximena Natzel for Storm and TJ Makes for Luck Runs Out
For the later half I would recommend watching both of gigi’s animatics for Keep your Friends close and Ruthlessness for the sense of continuity, although I know (and agree) that AnniFlammas animatic for Ruthlessness definitely deserves a reaction because of how good it is
Just a little spoiler free note in case no one’s mentioned it:
Every character has a specific instrument or defining rhythm that plays whenever they’re in a song or relevant, so you should absolutely take note of unique aspects that carry over through songs because they’re likely linked to a character from both songs
When you react to the Ruthlessness animatic, I recommend that you watch the one made by Gigi and AnniFlamma. Gigi's animatic is really great, but AnniFlamma's animatic is terrifying...
Seconded!!
"Odysseus, This is not the time to be sassy to your divine sugar mamma" I 100% lost my cool xDDDD I hope I didn't wake up my neighbors with the shout laugh I let out 😂
Since this video is a month old I'll say this.
But Zeus' prophecy also foreshadows Polyphemus.
"Can only be dealt with right here and now"
"A foe unlike anyone you've faced before"
"A mission to kill someone's son"
"If you don't end him now, you'll have no one left to save"
I knew the 'just a man' part was gonna take you out (cause same) 😂
Okey, but we all know that *that* part of keep your friends close will completely destroy him (if you know you know)
was just thinking this lol because SAME
Epic is one of if not the best thing I've ever heard. The music has moved me in a way music hasn't ever in the past. I found this channel through Epic and it's so nice seeing someone react the same way I have. I don't know anyone who's listened to Epic and this feeds my need to share the sheer awe I feel over this musical.
I know right! I’m with you on that! It’s super exciting to see someone else react the same way !
9:37 you’ll be surprised by how much jorge fangirls over his own fans 😂😂😂
The fact that Odysseus was about to leave when athena came and complained about him causing that whole thing to go down. Athena is just the goddess of bad timing today.
Been waiting for this all day; love your reactions. This is the appropriate amount of hype/enthusiasm/reverence/analysis for these.
Wolfy's 'My Goodbye' animatic is my favorite of anything to come out of Epic the Musical, and it really all comes down to a single frame. It's the way Athena's face changes when Odysseus says "You'll remember, I saw you as a friend." You can read a WORLD of insight into how she's feeling with just that tiny bit of animation. How it genuinely never occurred to her that she could have had both, how it should have been obvious and she can't believe she didn't see it before. The regret at what she didn't realize she was losing, how she wishes she could have done better but she still has her pride, her stupid, divine pride. It's brilliant, Wolfy is so talented and their work pairs with Jorge's songs so well. I'll always recommend their stuff to people when recommending the musical.
To remember Eurylycus’s name, just remember “you really cussed” and it'll help btw!
I kind of hate the fact that I know this will help me remember 🤣
@@officialmortiusim awful with names too! Helped me so 🤷♀why not help you lmao
@@officialmortius okay but "you really cussed" and "polite he is" is how I remembered both Ody's besties and no I can't remember Polites as anything other than "polite he is" and I hate it so there you go you can have the curse as well. At least this way you're guaranteed to remember them ;)
I am now excited for Wednesdays!
You are right, the backup voices are real people when the main vocalist is mortal but when a god sings its part of their power. Mortals have more traditional instruments while gods have synthetic instruments and Odysseus's music uses an electric guitar when he is being a warrior of the mind and a nylon guitar for his more emotional or human side.
Love your commentary for Odysseus during Warrior of the Mind, divine sugar mama haha.
Something I noticed: In Warrior of The Mind, the first time that phrase is sung by just Athena, she holds it out. When Odysseus joins in, Athena still holds it out, but he does this little run. The last time it's sung in that song, they both do the run. That's a way of showing how Athena was being shaped by him and growing attached to him. In My Goodbye, at the end, she says, "This is my goodbye" With the same run, but then she changes in the lyrics of the song and returns to her standard belt. This shows just how much she's rejecting him.
"You gave him a naaame thats gonna come back to bite y........."
".............."
"................. . . . . . . . . . . . ."
". . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ."
"Oh no."
No She should not know psychology Better than that.
LET ME EEEEEEXPLAIN.
Athena was Born an adult, She's RATIONAL and logical, She doesnt do emotion. If not for pallas (the nymph) she does not seem to display emotions, or well..positive ones.
She was born an adult but being Born an adult doesnt mean that She's emotionally mature, because that's another pair of sleeves.
Plus Athena Is the goddess of wisdom,She couldn't care less about odysseus' emotions or feelings-
(Not to sound rude or like a nerd 😅)
Some really fun things with My Goodbye is that it's been confirmed that the way Athena sings her long notes in Warrior of the Mind and My Goodbye are connected. When she first meets Odysseus and before she trusts him she holds out the note while he trails and then on the second time when she trusts him more she trails with him
In the final longer notes held in my goodbye she trails at first before she reverts back to holding the note. She no longer feels comfortable keeping in accordance with Odysseus, they're not synced anymore :')
Loved your reaction so much! Also just info -
Jay has released a short where he says that every character has a different instrument, For now I can only say that Odysseus has different versions of guitar that changes based on the emotions like electric guitar in Remember Them and Nylon Guitar in Just a Man.
Athena is represented by a piano.
Also whenever she used Quick Thought there is always a clock sound effect which only in real time lasts for a few seconds like you saw in between Open Arms and Warrior of the Mind.
Eurylochus is the voice of the soldiers and crew so his singing is often accompanied by the voices of his comrades like in Full Speed Ahead with Six Hundred Men.
Polites always liked to greet the world with 'Open Arms' ( actually what Jay said 😭) so his instruments are more playful, welcoming and higher pitched like a kalimba and marimba.
Poseidon who you know already is represented by a trumpet.
Also this is not confirmed but I am pretty sure Polyphemus is represented by a cello!
Just realized Ody says "what more would killing do when mercy is a skill more of this world could learn to use" and later on poseidon says "Ruthlessness is MERCY upon ourselves"...
Like he's mocking him and his views😢
Me: *takes a drink*
Mortius: "Odysseus, this is not the time to start being sassy to your divine sugar momma."
Me: *has to make a supreme effort to not spit my drink at my computer screen*
Gigi animatic is INSANE for ruthlessness
The way your brain was loading…gold! Definitely the wildest brain blast ever! It’a so amazing how all the songs are tied together have elements intertwined with each other! And yes! Polyphemus is Poseidon’s Son!
Odysseus saying "I am your darkest moment" always gets a chuckle out of me because like, it was his idea to blind Polyphemus
A detail J mentioned- The gods bring in the background vocals. They decide what they want and what they don't. For emphasis, for drama, for chaos- for destruction, whatever. Athena brought in the voices of his dead and wounded comrades and friends just to make it hurt *that much more*
"Athena! This is not the time, gurl!" I am cackling!
God i so hope this Saga turns into an actual stage-show
Thank you so much for your reactions to this, and especially for recognizing all the emotions at play here!
Remember Them is so very sad, but you are RIGHT about the rage and grief thing. He’s devastated, but they really Do Not have any time. There’s no telling when the effects of the lotus will wear off, and it took so long to work in the first place. Him retrieving Polites’ headband to keep around his wrist is so impactful, both personally in the moment and narratively. And Athena…. Man you are so spot on about her timing.
About killing the cyclops, that would be much more difficult and dangerous than just leaving. Another battle would likely get more of his men killed, and let’s not forget there are MULTIPLE others in there. Sure he was willing to kill him at first, but then Polites died, the body was in the way, and more cyclops showed up, and it was no longer practical to keep trying to kill him. The worst thing he does is doxxing himself, and it will have horrible repercussions for him. But while in the original Odyssey it’s bc of pride/hubris, in the musical it’s in a grief fueled breakdown.
I’m actually kinda ready to throw down about this whole “hubris” thing 😂. It’ll likely be a recurring theme in my comments for this show. I think a lot of it comes from the OG myth and prior perceptions of the character? I love both the OG and EPIC Odysseus, but they are not totally the same. The fundamentals of him loving his wife, son and kingdom and trying desperately to return are there, but the narratives and progression for the character are a bit different. Jorge has a great short video explaining this (th-cam.com/video/IU10JNifMQI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=reSrFtudASbW_Axd), although there are spoiler clips for unreleased songs so be aware of that! To include some of it, most of the changes to the Odyssey are to serve the theme of Ruthlessness, which Odysseus slowly learns to embrace throughout the musical in order to get home. In the OG the morality of his actions isn’t really discussed and it’s not an arc he’s going through.
But this isn’t the OG! It’s a musical retelling, and while I’m absolutely not gonna say EPIC Odysseus doesn’t have his issues with pride still, that’s really not the emphasis for what’s causing him to make such a monumental mistake. Hubris is his fatal flaw in the Odyssey, bc it is what causes him to taunt Polyphemus while KNOWING whose son he is. And this is an interesting moment in Greek mythology, bc while they heavily looked down upon hubris, accomplishments and glory were HUGELY important. I cannot overstate this I don’t think. Their heroes are called such not bc of morality, but bc of deeds. Odysseus just so happens to be one of the best in comparative morality to other Greek heroes, but he’s no saint by our standards at all.
And since fame was so important, Odysseus making sure Polyphemus knows his name ensures that his name spreads with such an incredible a feat as blinding a cyclops. It’s the stupidest and most prideful thing he does, and it’s the reason he doesn’t reach home for 10 years. Poseidon makes this man’s life hell. It’s also the ONLY time he ever reveals his name in such a way or lets his hubris overtake his wisdom for the rest of the story. He never does something like this again. It’s his fatal flaw not bc it constantly ruins him on many occasions, but bc the one time he lets it win over his wisdom it kills everyone and makes him miserable for a DECADE.
But back to the reason we’re all here, the musical. This name reveal is totally reimagined, to make it a moment of grief and rage RATHER than arrogance. It may be present in that he’s not thinking of the future danger, but it is Not the main source of his outburst. Even Athena doesn’t list it as the reason in My Goodbye, and she’s pissed at him and clearly not opposed to calling him out for any mistakes she sees. He also is completely unaware that Poseidon is the father here! Instead he wants his friend remembered, and he wants to hammer home who he is so there’s no chance of the cyclops forgetting this lesson. “Neither man nor mythical” is the closest he gets, but the following line “I am your darkest moment” is once again in relation to the lesson he wants remembered, and it’s even a threat.
This is still 100% a breakdown though. (“Odysseus what are you doing?!”) This whole musical is an extended series of breakdowns for him actually. He’s been an excellent warrior of the mind throughout the Trojan war, but in this retelling he’s just murdered a baby and is grappling with the guilt of that on top of the effects of fighting a 10 year war. He’s tired and traumatized, and the baby was the last straw. But things haven’t stopped happening, and he’s no longer at his best to meet them. He’s human. And Athena, wise in battle as she is, is having issues with that.
My Goodbye is VERY blatant with this. No one here is having a good time. And speaking of timing, Athena’s is the WORST. And not just right this second. She didn’t warn him about the Cyclops, nor about Polyphemus’ ancestry, and wanted him to prove himself when she saw he was faltering towards Polites’ ideology. While she cares and is more attached than she realizes, it’s not enough to tune her in well enough to handle this situation properly. She chooses to have this dramatic goodbye on the immediate heels of everything that just happened to him, and lo and behold it doesn’t go well. She’s emotional and lashing out too, it just looks different.
The interesting thing in My Goodbye is that they’re BOTH right about each other. He has become reckless and more sentimental the more he breaks down (again, effects of trauma) and he’s dooming himself and his crew bc of it, and as he says she’s selfish and prideful and vain. She’s looking for her own glory in him, and doesn’t yet give enough weight to how she herself might feel about him as a friend personally. That’s not nearly high enough on her radar. She’s a GODDESS, and while they got closer and Odysseus consciously was working towards friendship since the beginning (which she doesn’t even refute in Warrior of the Mind! “We’ll see where it ends” could even be seen as encouragement!), the things that are most important to her rn are not the things that are most important to him, and vice versa.
So, “what is Odysseus doing?” Losing his mind for the moment and the goddess that chose him for it. She’s hurting him, and he’s in the worst place to be responding well to that. He’s both lashing out and explaining his reasons, similarly to her. They’re alike in many ways. But she’s a goddess, and he’s “just a man.” And they’ve had a special relationship for so long that’s not at the forefront of his concerns, especially given everything that’s been happening. And it should be. So, is she right about him? Yes. But so is he. And neither of them handled this well for their own reasons. If she’d been more understanding of his humanity she might’ve been able to reach him better and avoid some if not all of this, and if he’d been able to keep his head about him he might’ve not made the choices he did.
“You’re alone” is something that genuinely affects her, to her surprise. She’s not about to change her mind atp though. As others have pointed out, SHE knows about Poseidon, and she’s not going to stick around to fight him when her protege isn’t even listening to her right now. Nvm WHY he’s not listening. Poseidon is kind of a big deal, and while they’ve fought and been on opposing sides, Odysseus rebuffing her advice means more than whatever feelings she has for him, and it’s not worth it to her atm.
The “just a man” callback is BRUTAL, and with the accompanying vocals she brings in (which Jorge confirmed is intentionally manifested with gods by they themselves) even more so. And that was a great catch with Wolfy’s inclusion of Penelope and Telemachus on her right, Polites and the infant on her left. The people he stands the lose, and the people who’ve already been lost. And she says “this day, you’ve lost it all.” I once again want to point out how much “Just A Man” haunts this entire narrative and Odysseus as its host. And piggybacking onto it the theme of “Ruthlessness.” It’s SO cool.
I’m…..not sure how to say this but I have so many more thoughts but I WILL NOT put them all here, this is over 1.5k words and it’s a TH-cam comment 🫠. Thank you so much for taking the time to read this and the effort you put into your reactions. I’m gonna go to your patreon in the next week or so to see those. I don’t know if you have yet, but if you took the time to go back and watch the other animatics for the Troy Saga that would be utterly stupendous.
I know you’ve likely already watched the Ocean Saga, but I would highly recommend watching Gigi’s Keep Your Friends Close and Ruthlessness together, as they go hand in hand. Anniflamma’s Ruthlessness is fantastic as well, but the other two naturally flow together really well. I know you’ll watch both though so I’m happy 😁. Looking forward to tomorrow’s video!!!
I actually read everything you wrote... Mostly because I liked your reasoning.
Also I was gonna right my thoughts, but I didn't know how to word it and well I decided to settle with saying that I like your comment/essay.
Yes, that is exactly true. Random people didn't show up for Athena to do the "Ohhhh" In "My Goodbye".
Polities with the infant is heartbreaking but you did not see the absolute FOUL /pos of the animatic of the mother of that infant screaming and begging while watching Odysseus
In the Odyssey, after Polyphemus is blinded, he doesn't hunt for Odysseus because he's blind so to make sure he doesn't escape, he sits at the entrance of his cave and feels every living being that passes through. Odysseus then uses some rope to tie his men to the sheep so they can pass through while hiding underneath the animals.
And thus the main problem of the story begins. Poseidon is going to be pissed!
NOT SO FUN FACT: polyphemus losing his eye is a lot more brutal in the actual Odyssey, not only do they embed the sharpened culb into his eye, before hand they actually heat the point of it into in fire, stab it into his eye and twist it--
Something that I think is important to remember about Polyphemus is that he's portrayed as a child. He's just a kid, which is kind of a pattern for Odysseus. Harming children.
If his claim that everything he does is to protect Penelope and Telemachus were true, "Get In The Water" would be the last song of Epic, because unlike Astyanax, you can't kill Poseidon, so there's nothing he could do to stop Poseidon from destroying Ithaca with a tidal wave, other than placate him by dying.
i'm not entirely sure how that relares to Polyphemus being a child , but you're probably right.
Uhh no?
@@kelskitchen3673 The use of the word "pattern" is what made me say that. First Astyanax, then Polyphemus.
I've seen some act like Odysseus is dumb for not killing Polyphemus even though he killed Astyanax (infant) and ooooh boy does that just ignore the importance of Astyanax's death
I always saw it as Odysseus being so affected by losing Polites.
"Everything's changed since Polites" - Suddenly Odysseus doesn't want to kill anymore, despite having coming back from a war where he killed many, including an infant.
Fun fact: at the end of my goodbye when she says it several times, she uses the same melody as Warrior of the mind, when she was singing the words with Odysseus, but then her final “my goodbye” reverts back to how she started with saying Warrior of the mind, of just holding the note
Remember them is easily my favourite song out of all of Epic so far! It's so awesome and carries such weight for Odysseus' character 🎸
When Odysseus reveals his name at the end of Remember Them, that is the first time his name is mentioned in the entire musical. Jorge had a perfectly good opportunity to put it into Warrior of the Mind when Athena literally asks him for it, but no. THE FIRST TIME Odysseus's name is said is that fatal mistake.
One thing i love about "My Goodbye", the animal associated with Athena is an owl. And from how long her neck is and the little shifts and angles of her head at some points, the animator really leaned into that aspect.
Fun fact: That guitar melody you can hear at the beginning of "Remember Them"? That's the "We're up, we're off, and away we go" melody from "Full Speed Ahead".
"What, are you gonna be mad that he didn't kill this eldritch horror in front of him?" Yes, that's exactly what she's gonna do. 🤣
When you get to Ruthlessness you should watch either the Aniflamma or the GiGi, both are great the pros to each is that the Aniflamma version is a bit more of a unique and interesting take on it by taking inspiration from some parts of Greek mythology that aren't to widely known, but the GiGi version is probably visually better (As in it is a lot more active while looking great throughout) though both are absolutely stunning.
I agree but I personally love Aniflamma version better because Poseidon is free with his form and the horse look in crazy
@@Waffily78 Yeah I probably prefer it to, but both are great so I thought that I might as well suggest both.
Hahaha “are both of you stupid?”😂😂😂😂 “it’s not the time to be sassy to your divine sugar Mumma” got me good! Best reaction comment ever!!!!! 😂
I don't know if you noticed but at the end of my goodbye when Athena is doing all of her "this is my goodbye"s she does the rift that Odysseus taught her in warrior of the mind and then she ends my goodbye with the original way she sang in warrior of the mind.
So in warrior of the mind she holds the note for "mind" when she's singing by herself and then when odysseus joins in he does a rift while she still holds that note but by the end they are both doing the rift, signifying that they are a team and he taught her a little about his way of doing things not just what she wants. Then in my goodbye she does the same rift in the 3rd to last "my goodbye" and then on her very last one she holds the note like she did in Warrior of the mind, signifying that they are no longer a team and she doesn't agree with him anymore.
"Divine sugarmomma" I CACKLED 🤣
The loading text was absolutely hilarious
God I love your reactions... I have such big feelings about this musical and none of my friends are into musicals so they wont check it out but you and I basically had all the same reactions and I love that for us
I feel like someone else has probably mentioned it, but if you notice the guitar rift at the beginning of remember them? It’s to the beat of, ‘we’re up, we’re off and away we go’ from Full Speed Ahead.
As you were realizing the connection between Ruthlessness and Remember Them. I was realizing that, Remember Them, is about remember the crew and those who died, but also refers to the cyclops remembering them for the future, as he will not forget Odysseus's name.
Fun fact from Mr. Jalapeño himself. When Odysseus says, "Mark my words now/this is not the end," the background electric guitar is the same melody as "We're up, we're off, and away we go" from Full Speed Ahead!
“Athena, this is not the time” 😂 😂😂 you’re not wrong!
i mean Athena is a godess. Technacly she doesnt know how its like to lose someone cuz gods are immortal
i love this its agreat nostalgic musical by the times i spent in primary school learnig about it [its better when youre greek/you know everything😅🤣🤣]your reactions are priceless king👌👌cant wait for more
Pallas: Am I a joke to you?
11:21 "What, are you gonna be mad that he--didn't kill the *eldritch horror* in front of him??"
Athena: _YES._
The captions and your face when you remembered Poseidon is Polyphemus' father and the connection to Ruthlessness sent me lmao. I wish there was like an old timey oven sound effect while you were thinking
19:13 bro unpaused at the right time while saying that
Please do Gigi's version of Ruthlessness when you get to it, nobody else has done it yet that I can see
14:53 - so I've seen the entire musical (as it exists so far) and
(this is not a spoiler for Mortius, but could be for those who haven't seen the video, yet):
... even right up until it was over, I was yelling at Odysseus, at the screen. "No. No! NO! STOP IT. AGH!!"
I've seen this animatic easily over a dozen times. More, probably.
That's one of the incredibly powerful elements of knowing this story. "You fool, you" is a genre for a reason, and it's incredibly and extremely well done in this instance. Much like the 6th Sense, knowing the latter parts doesn't ruin the story - it enhances them. But going through blind is *also* fantastic. This musical continues to impress on every level.
"the cyclops u made blind ,is mine"-rutlessness
Also!! I made my own cover recently, please consider checking it out and giving me that support as a creator myself!!
th-cam.com/video/sSQjW41M80E/w-d-xo.htmlsi=cHjNDyN1Y2M60Kcy
I just love the melodic throwback to Warrior of the Mind - Athena starts kinda flat (Warrior of the Miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiind), Odysseus is jumpy (Miiiihihihihihiiiiiind). Then they get closer and Athena adapts / incorporates the jumpyness into her own singing.
Now in Goodbye they do the same with the phrase - she starts with jumpy (Goooodbyehehehehe) ... but ends it sharp (Goodbyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyeee) to sever her ties.
Came back to this reaction because I knew it had some amusing bits (and Jen's reaction video reminded me), and your comment about "imagine if this was a stage production and Polites' headband became part of Odysseus's costume as a wrist-wrap for the rest of the play"...
Well, imagine if it stayed on his wrist *until during Monster* 👀
Hey do you wanna leave me alone 🤣😭
"This way, you're outta my head now." Well, technically, she's not out of your head until the end of the conversation, Odysseus. 😂
I HADN’T EVEN NOTICED THAT POLITIES HELD THE INFANT BEFORE YOU SAID THAT!! The way my jaw dropped 😭😭 (as a side note, I’ve rewatched the whole musical MANY times and still haven’t noticed that-)