Putting the helmet on when he made up his mind, as if retreating to the faceless role of just another soldier, to escape culpability is peak visual story telling.
Fun fact: Like Athena and her owls, Zues's main animal is the hawk. This is why you hear the hawk screech in The Horse and The Infant. It's too hint at who is speaking without having to say their name directly
Zeus' animal is the eagle! However, that was a hawk cry! Because eagle cries are often swapped with hawk cries in media, much like how lion roars are replaced by tiger roars!
While I do love that Just a Man animatic so much, there is another that when Odysseus walks towards the edge with the baby it cuts to the mother of the baby screaming after it and crying as she is pulled away by Ody's soldiers
also in the horse and the infant, something Zeus says; the gods will let him know. this shows they're just playing with him. either you kill this boy, or no matter what you do, we're going to tell him to kill you
It's not that they're playing with him. Remember that Greek gods arent a monolith and the Trojan war had gods picking sides, so the gods that aren't happy about their side (Troy) losing would be more than happy to get back at Odysseus through informing the boy. And considering Apollo generally favored Troy? The boy finding out was basically a guarantee.
A big part of this is Karma; the pain you sow is brought back upon you threefold. Only the gods can take lives without karmic retribution - humans killing other humans is met with some form of punishment, whether judicial or divine in nature. Additionally, it’s interesting when you consider the perspective of the gods as objectively - though not necessarily morally - correct. I’ll talk more on this when the two of them reach My Goodbye and/or Ruthlessness.
Gigi´s words on her next animatic: "In Monster I'll present a little someone that appeared briefly in my Just a Man animatic last year. This shadow figure in the mirror." "This is how I envision the "Monster", this dark reflection of Odysseus. When I did this part of the animatic I was already planning on bringing this figure back for when the underworld saga come out. YEAH THIS IS A YEAR LONG SET UP THAT I WAS WAITING PATIENTLY TO PAY OFF." She told me some other ideas and boy... I think that´s gonna be her best animatic ever.
In rewatching this here, I'm realizing that they establish the theme of the musical from the first song. "The blood on your hands is something you won't lose. All you can choose is whose," is the whole story. At every turning point, Odysseus _wants_ to avoid bloodshed, but ultimately his choices can only affect _whose_ blood is shed. Epic is about Odysseus having to learn that you can't save everyone, so you have to prioritize the people you care about.
29:30 Also mind you, odysseus stops singing the main chorus when the army begins singing, and instead he repeats "forgive me" over and over as his men ask the question. He does not answer them. He only pleads for forgiveness for what he's about to do.
20:44 his sudden realization that THAT SONG THE SONG HE COVERED! is about KILLING A *CHILD* chefs kiss that was perfect thank you for the perfect line delivery 👏👌❤️
Don’t know if you noticed, but the branches of the tree form into a nose and holes for eyes in a helmet. The dark tree literally form into a ‘monster’.
The call n response is really interesting. Chorus: What do you live for? He responds with his wife Chorus: What do you try for? He responds with his son Chorus: What do you wish for? He responds with his desire to head home Chorus: What do you fight for? He has no answer, just tells his men to attack Love that little detail
The eagle is Zeus' sacred animal. So the eagle in those scenes is Zeus appearing in eagle form. Astyanax's death is definitely from the Odyssey, but there are two versions. The most common is that Odysseus throws him from the walls. But there is also a version where Achilles' son, Neoptolemus, or Pyrrhus, dashes his head against a wall. This is the character referred to as "Neo" in The Horse and the Infant.
@@bookswithike3256 Some versions get even worse than that. I know there's one where Neo uses the infant's body to beat Priam (his grandfather) to death.
@@bookswithike3256 Yeah if it worked I cannot imagine it would be anything resembling quick, so I always found that one a little weird. I think it was in one of the retellings that came after Homer so knowing the ways those went it might have been added specifically for the level of sheer brutality it implies. Like a story embellishment to shock the audience and set the retelling apart, though that's just speculation on my end.
The child being dropped from the palace walls are canon within the story of the Odyssey as well. In most retellings, the mother of the child is even either forced to watch or watched her child get killed by fall damage as she herself is taken away to be a prisoner. Wolfy shows this scene really well in one of her animatics of it.
I love the double meaning of "I'm just a man" too! "I'm just a man, I can't defy gods. I'm just a man, I can't make a decision like this. I'm just a man, forgive me."
I personally also get “I’m just a man, I’m tempted/bound to make ruthless or cruel decisions because of Love/mortal emotion” (a la, if my wife and son are at stake of course I’d ultimately rather kill the kid I don’t know) it’s so cool????
Another connection about the Helmet-In the original Illiad, which chronicles the tale of the Trojan War, when the father goes to pick up his son (the infant in this song), the child starts crying in his arms because the helmet that Hector is wearing is hiding his face-the toddler cannot tell the difference between his own father and a monster, when the shadow of war is obscuring the face of someone he loves.
No matter what song, or who is reacting, I will immediately click on anything related to *EPIC* . Thank you for speeding the word, and posting more reactions!
31:50 in the Odyssey, there is a council vote on whether or not to kill the child. Odysseus voted to kill the child. Either him or Achilles’ son threw the baby over the trojan wall.
There's also a version where Neoptolomus (Achilles' son) beats the old king Priam (who is the infants grandfather) to death with the body of Astynax (the infant), it's not clear whether Astynax is dead or not at the beginning of Neo's actions.
One thing I really love about The Horse and the Infant is that you can hear the steady ticking of a clock in the background which signifies Athena's heavy influence on Odysseus.
So the characters have been confirmed from Jay himself it is Zeus (played by Luke Holt) in the first song and the bird is an Eagle that represents Zeus a lot of the Greek gods have symbols and animals that also represent them so it’s pretty cool Jay has added a bit of it into the songs!
A lot of the end of the trojan war, including the horse, isn't actually in the Odyssey. There's a gap between the Illiad and the Odyssey where we have a lot of fragmented narrative elements born out of the same oral storytelling tradition as the Epics, but different versions. As far as I'm aware, Hector's son (Astyanax, btw) dies in every version where he's mentioned. Granted, not all of them have Odysseus as the one killing him (sometimes it's just "the Greeks" with no specific killer mentioned, and some versions have Neoptolomus (son of Achilles, referrered to as Neo in The Horse and the Infant. Achilles was killed by Paris, who was one of Hector's brothers.) being the one to kill him.
Oh, something that another fan noticed, firstly Athena sings “mind” on only one high note (Odysseus sings it “mi-i-i-i-i-ind” using a few notes), after that he and Athena sing it with Athena’s one high note and Odysseus’ few notes, and the second duo has both of them singing “mi-i-i-i-i-ind” showing their connection and harmonization. Athena stays in the few notes at the end. You could also show drifting away in the same way. Another thing, adding to the angel and devil thing, the lower voice represents the harshness of the character, while Polites’ high voice showcases his optimism. It’s also supposed to differentiate them, cause one said ‘go attack them’ and the other says ‘go and be friends with them’. Fun fact: Athena is a maiden goddess. The children of Athena made out of thoughts thingy was made for PJO exclusively. And an owl is Athena’s sacred animal. And look out for ‘the danger theme’. There is a motif in music called the danger theme added by Jay. “When does a man become a monster?” You know when. Annabeth from SoM and Polites parallel but a bit different
26:00 the thing that at first he was holding baby like it was his own but now he is holding it like an object. That he lost the empathy in order to not feel that guilty.
I am now convinced that big man set out the just a man song super like popular then set out the rest cuz. I listened to just a man for like 6 months before i listed to the rest… TO THE POINT that it became my mom’s favorite song….. i ended up needing to tall my mom the real story and it make us both cry
That's why I love the animatics, they add meaning and understanding to the lyrics, which are already so perfect on their own. I also struggle with auditory processing and the animatics really help. I hope you will react to the underworld saga with animatics too.
There’s a couple variations of the odyssey, one where Odysseus does in fact drop the infant, and other versions where one of his soldiers… I forget the name of said soldier… is the one to kill the infant. So really the infant dies either way but Jorge chose the one that would best tell the story he wanted which was Odysseus himself.
yep! soldier you’re looking for is neoptolemus or pyrrhus (same person, just alt names), son of Achilles (hence “Neo, avenge your father, kill the brothers of Hector”)
can i just say how much i love the dynamic between you two! I love your excitement in getting to share the musical, as well as your ability to give insight and clarity, meanwhile Casper brings an entirely different perspective. Cant wait to see more of these!!
In the original text dropping the baby was the first turning point in which odysseus really started to question and waver in his mentor’s teachings. Greek mythology is also heavily grounded in mortals and in some cases gods being unable to change their fate no matter the struggle. Take the story of oedipus for example. So what Zeus was really saying was do you want to kill an infant or your wife and son. Choose.
"Horse and the Infant" is SUCH a strong start to a musical, it sucks you in IMMEDIATELY, that first minute starting right in the action, the sentimentality of "Penelope~ " + the heartbeat, it's so good
Also, there other versions where Achilles son killed the baby. There is even a version where Neo (son of Achilles) beats the last king of Troy to death(the baby's grandfather) with infants body.
Coming back to this after the latest saga released and going through this again with you and a first-time reactor…. Sure brings up many new feelings in regards to these songs. xD
Odysseus does kill Hector's child at the "beginning of the Odyssey" or the end of the Iliad. Or in another side poem idk but it is canonical to the story. He kills the child by throwing him from the walls of Troy. It's dark but that's Greek Mythology for ya.
Yeeees! Drag anyone you can into the hyper fixation. It's for their own good. (That's what I tell myself as I very carefully attempt to get everyone I know hooked on it.)
I'm convinced if EPIC ever gets a stage production "Just a Man" will be the song they sing at the Tonys How could it be anything else?? It's such a beautiful & powerful song
When the tree is growing, just before Odysseus picks the child up, you get a shot of him walking towards the crib. The trees branches from the shape of the child's face after he grows up and comes back for revenge. It's literally showing what he'll grow into
Just a man was the second song from the epic I heard, I imagined a lullaby style with a child listening to their grandfather's war stories. OH HOW I WISH IT WAS
I know that you already listed to/watched the animatics fior EPIC up until to the circe saga, but I hope you two can react on the whole act 1 together up to the underworld saga. I really love you guy's discussions.
I desperately wish I had friends who would let me have the experience you are having in this video. Ive gotten a couple people to listen to Epic, but I wasn't able to get their reaction! We've obviously chatted about it but it is just so sad to not get that initial reaction.
I have to say i adore your dynamic while watching this, the context you provide and the fresh reactions he has make for an amazing reaction vid!! Can't wait to see the vid on his channel!!❤❤
"I can make sure his past is never known" "The Gods will make him know" Well damn, if you were just gonna threaten the guy, ya should have led with that.😂
23:35 in the mirror we see trees as the supports for the the bed, gig made a direct connection to the Odyessy here. **SPOILER FOR END OF ODYSSEY** (this is not major plot but it is how Penelope confirms it is her husband) Penelope test Odysseus once he returns home, in this test she mentions that the bed was moved, which tiggers Odysseus that anyone else knows and even more so touched the bed. The secret that their bed was centered and carved from a Tree. Odysseus carved it, it is their marriage bed and one servant knew of it. This is how she knew her husband was home.
Astyanax dying in the siege of Troy is pretty universal in the sources. Exactly which Greek did it varies. The Odyssey (being set entirely after the war but making numerous references to past events) doesn’t actually mention it, but we know in the lost epic Iliupersis it was Odysseus, so this was a choice by Jorge on which sources he wanted to draw on and incorporate.
Oh man, I love people discovering Epic. It’s an absolute blast to practically see the thoughts unfold. ESPECIALLY when it’s someone who knows music. I’m not very in the know when it comes to music, but I ADORE anything art-nerdy, which is one of the reasons as to why I like Epic so much. And, of course, I like music. And Greek mythology. And history (I’m literally a Humanities student). I’m also a theatre kid, so this literally could not be more up my alley!! But rambling aside. I love to see people begin to unpack everything, and see them get *excited* about it. Because we know, it only gets better (and worse, emotionally) from here
I saw the Peter Barber channel reactions advertised to me on TH-cam, then I watched those 4 covering the Troy saga and loved them. They added to my experience. Then another reactor was advertised to me. They both mentioned Fox and Mortious. So now I’ve watched ALL of M’s reactions (had a blast) and I’m finally here in chronological order and WILL be watching all these reactors lol. You’ve all gained another winion subscriber ❤
Becoming a member of the epic fandom is great because its like "Hey Guys! Ive heard a lot of great stuff about this musical and i appreciate you letting me join! ... Why are you all holding knives?"
It shouldve been obvious but i just realized that the background vocals coming in in just a man is DEFINITELY odysseus walking up to over the war to the balcony (or whatever), ready to drop the baby
Man you got me happy flapping/arm-waving/stimming all over the place in excitement! This was so fun, and also highly relatable as I have also shared some of my musical hyperfixations with my friends as well! Totally gonna go check out part 2!
13:57 Zeus sounds like Tomi at some points not the whole time but they sound similar maybe just the "a vision of" only but still but since he can sound different when singing not speaking one or its the dramatic flare and acting seem similar
What i enjoy about the horse and the infant is that when the army or whoever is the "choir" part ask what do you live for, what do you try for, what do you whish for and what do you fight for for the second time he answers. The first question is what do you live for and Ody answers Penelope, the second question what do you try for he answers with Telemacus, what do you wish for he answers with I'm on my way. The last one he answers with attack wich kinda doesn't work but I always enjoy listening to that part of Ody trying to I don't know center himself before the battle and thinking of the people he loves.
Now that it's being brought up by you to someone else & I'm actively thinking about it (the fact that it's a quarter after 2 when I'm watching this video probably doesn't help either,) but the reason why the gods are allowed to "break the rules" is actually because of storytelling themes that are deeply baked into the structure of Greek myth: the gods are able to enforce their will by virtue of divine mandate, or they're allowed to do what they do explicitly *_BECAUSE_* of their status of gods. By contrast, humans must enforce their will not by virtue of who they are, but by wresting the power to do so, typically through collecting a group of similarly aligned people working together with the same goal in mind. Given Greece's history at the time being almost solely being defined by drawing disparate ideologies together to create a potent force, such themes are to be expected; however, it's important to note that these themes are recursive throughout these myths: be it a son looking to overthrow his tyrant father, a group of soldiers led by their king to escape the grasp of the gods they've angered by attacking their seat of worship, or the gods themselves defying and defeating the titans who before the age of the gods acted like oppressors, the themes remain the same no matter what level the scope lays at. Personally, I find it a rather fascinating aspect of Greek mythology that you don't see too much in other mythologies, or if such aspects were there, the original meanings behind the iconography has either been muddied to the point of irrelevance (Roman mythology,) or the original meanings have been lost to time (Aztec mythology)
AAA thank you guys so much for the kind words!! Great video! :D
LOVE YOU 🫶🏼🫶🏼🫶🏼🫶🏼
Thank you Gigiiiiiiiii love your animatics🎉❤❤
Gigi! Your monster vid was beautiful!
@@sergiogood3446 fr, chilling
Putting the helmet on when he made up his mind, as if retreating to the faceless role of just another soldier, to escape culpability is peak visual story telling.
ONE OF US ONE OF US
_distant voice: traumatize the lad!_
Confused betrayed sobbing is the correct reaction
(This is the dozenth time I’m watching these animatics)
@@whatismylife6927 Same and I don't think I'll ever get tired of them
Blood for the blood god!
For Penelope!
DO NOT RESIST THE CALL, BECOME A WINION
"I have really only one question for you. Uh, when does a man become a monster?" Oh, now that's a cruel question!
savage XD
This hits so much harder after Underworld 😭
Spoilers for later
At approximately the very last song of act 1
Uhh 20 songs in
And that evil laugh later 😂
"how does killing a child affect this poor man's mental health?" Oh just you wait lol
Should we tell him?
@@dragonstouch1042 nah, he'll find out later.
@@dragonstouch1042 Let's let him and Mortius find out themselves. Underworld Saga fucked me up.
Oh shlt they're screwed
@@disableddragonborn The Odyssey's main message is, "Just when you thinks things couldn't get any worse, it gets worse "
I will do anything, and I mean *anything* for more epic content, I need it like I need *air* , so I thank you kind sir for feeding my obsession! :DDD
Truer words were never spoken
*So true!*
P.S: for the bold words to work there needs to be spaces on either side.
I at least want to see him react to Jorge's Get in the Water.
FR LIKE IM OBSESSED, ITS NO JOKR ALWAYS ON MY MIND
@@Cybernetic-alien thanks! :))) i fixed it
Mortius your reaction to watching him react was exactly how we as the viewers felt when you watched it for the first time 😂
Facts. 🤣
Fun fact: Like Athena and her owls, Zues's main animal is the hawk. This is why you hear the hawk screech in The Horse and The Infant. It's too hint at who is speaking without having to say their name directly
Not a hawk, Zeus' sacred animal is the eagle actually!
Zeus' animal is the eagle! However, that was a hawk cry! Because eagle cries are often swapped with hawk cries in media, much like how lion roars are replaced by tiger roars!
@@nightshadeLG63 ooh I know it's a common practice but I hadn't realized it was a hawk in the recording!
Actually Zeus’s sacred animal is an Eagle
While I do love that Just a Man animatic so much, there is another that when Odysseus walks towards the edge with the baby it cuts to the mother of the baby screaming after it and crying as she is pulled away by Ody's soldiers
That video is so heartbreaking, it's amazing
Wolfy’s remake version! That one is amazing
OMG WHICH ONE IS THAT ONE???? 😭
@@SleepyHollowKnight The one by WolfyTheWitch! One of my personal favorites for Just a Man honestly
@@WeirdCreature963 oh okay, I’ll be sure to check it out!
also in the horse and the infant, something Zeus says; the gods will let him know. this shows they're just playing with him.
either you kill this boy, or no matter what you do, we're going to tell him to kill you
More so the gods on the Trojan’s side
It's not that they're playing with him. Remember that Greek gods arent a monolith and the Trojan war had gods picking sides, so the gods that aren't happy about their side (Troy) losing would be more than happy to get back at Odysseus through informing the boy. And considering Apollo generally favored Troy? The boy finding out was basically a guarantee.
A big part of this is Karma; the pain you sow is brought back upon you threefold. Only the gods can take lives without karmic retribution - humans killing other humans is met with some form of punishment, whether judicial or divine in nature.
Additionally, it’s interesting when you consider the perspective of the gods as objectively - though not necessarily morally - correct. I’ll talk more on this when the two of them reach My Goodbye and/or Ruthlessness.
@@feistsorcerer2251 oh yeah, Apollo would back the prince of troy so hard. Probably send a plague or two as well
Makes sense the olympians took sides in the war and maybe Zeus is lying abt how Odysseus wanted to raise him himself
Gigi´s words on her next animatic:
"In Monster I'll present a little someone that appeared briefly in my Just a Man animatic last year. This shadow figure in the mirror."
"This is how I envision the "Monster", this dark reflection of Odysseus. When I did this part of the animatic I was already planning on bringing this figure back for when the underworld saga come out. YEAH THIS IS A YEAR LONG SET UP THAT I WAS WAITING PATIENTLY TO PAY OFF."
She told me some other ideas and boy... I think that´s gonna be her best animatic ever.
In rewatching this here, I'm realizing that they establish the theme of the musical from the first song. "The blood on your hands is something you won't lose. All you can choose is whose," is the whole story. At every turning point, Odysseus _wants_ to avoid bloodshed, but ultimately his choices can only affect _whose_ blood is shed. Epic is about Odysseus having to learn that you can't save everyone, so you have to prioritize the people you care about.
29:30
Also mind you, odysseus stops singing the main chorus when the army begins singing, and instead he repeats "forgive me" over and over as his men ask the question.
He does not answer them.
He only pleads for forgiveness for what he's about to do.
"when does a man become a monster"
Thats brutal of you Mortius
And absolute killer blow
Love it
20:44 his sudden realization that THAT SONG THE SONG HE COVERED! is about KILLING A *CHILD* chefs kiss that was perfect thank you for the perfect line delivery 👏👌❤️
20:39 "I have really only one question for you, when does a man become a monster?" [Casper gasps] [Mortius cackles] 🤣
5:20 "I wasn't expecting this to be upbeat"
THat facial expression says EVERYTHING XD
He took that back _real_ fast.
Don’t know if you noticed, but the branches of the tree form into a nose and holes for eyes in a helmet. The dark tree literally form into a ‘monster’.
Mortius evilly cackling as poor Casper's heart breaks is a perfect representation of me, i do this all the time XD
Was SO MUCH FUN to watch this with you, Mortius!
I hope you guys all enjoyed the reaction!
React to the whole series together, please!
Agree. Please?
I wanna see you reacting to Gigi´s Keep Your Friends Close and Ruthlessness so bad lol
_ONE OF US!_
_ONE OF US!_
_ONE OF US!_
Traumatize the lad! 😂😂😂
You had an evil laugh moment at the beginning of just a man
😈
The call n response is really interesting.
Chorus: What do you live for?
He responds with his wife
Chorus: What do you try for?
He responds with his son
Chorus: What do you wish for?
He responds with his desire to head home
Chorus: What do you fight for?
He has no answer, just tells his men to attack
Love that little detail
The eagle is Zeus' sacred animal. So the eagle in those scenes is Zeus appearing in eagle form.
Astyanax's death is definitely from the Odyssey, but there are two versions. The most common is that Odysseus throws him from the walls. But there is also a version where Achilles' son, Neoptolemus, or Pyrrhus, dashes his head against a wall. This is the character referred to as "Neo" in The Horse and the Infant.
I think he was stating that the bird is not from Zeus, but rather Athena, from Warrior of the Mind
@@bewolver6173 No. Athena's animal is an owl. Zeus' is an eagle. They're different birds.
@@bookswithike3256 Some versions get even worse than that. I know there's one where Neo uses the infant's body to beat Priam (his grandfather) to death.
@@feistsorcerer2251 Huh. I can't imagine a baby is a terribly effective bludgeoning weapon.
@@bookswithike3256 Yeah if it worked I cannot imagine it would be anything resembling quick, so I always found that one a little weird. I think it was in one of the retellings that came after Homer so knowing the ways those went it might have been added specifically for the level of sheer brutality it implies. Like a story embellishment to shock the audience and set the retelling apart, though that's just speculation on my end.
The child being dropped from the palace walls are canon within the story of the Odyssey as well. In most retellings, the mother of the child is even either forced to watch or watched her child get killed by fall damage as she herself is taken away to be a prisoner. Wolfy shows this scene really well in one of her animatics of it.
I read somewhere that Astyanax was actually used as a melee weapon to bludgeon someone.
@@disableddragonborn Neo, son of Achilles, used the prince to bludgeon Priam (the baby’s grandfather) to death
@@catherinecao4810 That's evil.
You've entered stage 2 of the Epic infection: seeking out uninfected potential hosts to spread it too~ ONE OF US ONE OF US!!
I love the double meaning of "I'm just a man" too! "I'm just a man, I can't defy gods. I'm just a man, I can't make a decision like this. I'm just a man, forgive me."
Oooooooooooh
I personally also get “I’m just a man, I’m tempted/bound to make ruthless or cruel decisions because of Love/mortal emotion” (a la, if my wife and son are at stake of course I’d ultimately rather kill the kid I don’t know) it’s so cool????
@@skyeeld6583 Yes, exactly!
Another connection about the Helmet-In the original Illiad, which chronicles the tale of the Trojan War, when the father goes to pick up his son (the infant in this song), the child starts crying in his arms because the helmet that Hector is wearing is hiding his face-the toddler cannot tell the difference between his own father and a monster, when the shadow of war is obscuring the face of someone he loves.
No matter what song, or who is reacting, I will immediately click on anything related to *EPIC* . Thank you for speeding the word, and posting more reactions!
31:50 in the Odyssey, there is a council vote on whether or not to kill the child. Odysseus voted to kill the child. Either him or Achilles’ son threw the baby over the trojan wall.
There's also a version where Neoptolomus (Achilles' son) beats the old king Priam (who is the infants grandfather) to death with the body of Astynax (the infant), it's not clear whether Astynax is dead or not at the beginning of Neo's actions.
Neo was a menace man
"Like, SUPER MARIO ODISSEY?" BRO 😂
One thing I really love about The Horse and the Infant is that you can hear the steady ticking of a clock in the background which signifies Athena's heavy influence on Odysseus.
My thanks to you for growing the *WINION ARMY!*
So the characters have been confirmed from Jay himself it is Zeus (played by Luke Holt) in the first song and the bird is an Eagle that represents Zeus a lot of the Greek gods have symbols and animals that also represent them so it’s pretty cool Jay has added a bit of it into the songs!
Yes! Yes! Inject more Epic content into my veins!
A lot of the end of the trojan war, including the horse, isn't actually in the Odyssey. There's a gap between the Illiad and the Odyssey where we have a lot of fragmented narrative elements born out of the same oral storytelling tradition as the Epics, but different versions. As far as I'm aware, Hector's son (Astyanax, btw) dies in every version where he's mentioned. Granted, not all of them have Odysseus as the one killing him (sometimes it's just "the Greeks" with no specific killer mentioned, and some versions have Neoptolomus (son of Achilles, referrered to as Neo in The Horse and the Infant. Achilles was killed by Paris, who was one of Hector's brothers.) being the one to kill him.
Oh, something that another fan noticed, firstly Athena sings “mind” on only one high note (Odysseus sings it “mi-i-i-i-i-ind” using a few notes), after that he and Athena sing it with Athena’s one high note and Odysseus’ few notes, and the second duo has both of them singing “mi-i-i-i-i-ind” showing their connection and harmonization. Athena stays in the few notes at the end. You could also show drifting away in the same way.
Another thing, adding to the angel and devil thing, the lower voice represents the harshness of the character, while Polites’ high voice showcases his optimism. It’s also supposed to differentiate them, cause one said ‘go attack them’ and the other says ‘go and be friends with them’.
Fun fact: Athena is a maiden goddess. The children of Athena made out of thoughts thingy was made for PJO exclusively. And an owl is Athena’s sacred animal.
And look out for ‘the danger theme’. There is a motif in music called the danger theme added by Jay.
“When does a man become a monster?” You know when.
Annabeth from SoM and Polites parallel but a bit different
I love the expressions of Mortius waiting for the comments of his friend! 😂
Mortius is all of us when we show friends stuff we love. Just. The reactions to a friends reactions make this soooo much funnier.
I love that little evil laugh moment you had right when ‘Just A Man’ started 😂
26:00 the thing that at first he was holding baby like it was his own but now he is holding it like an object. That he lost the empathy in order to not feel that guilty.
I am now convinced that big man set out the just a man song super like popular then set out the rest cuz. I listened to just a man for like 6 months before i listed to the rest… TO THE POINT that it became my mom’s favorite song….. i ended up needing to tall my mom the real story and it make us both cry
That's why I love the animatics, they add meaning and understanding to the lyrics, which are already so perfect on their own.
I also struggle with auditory processing and the animatics really help.
I hope you will react to the underworld saga with animatics too.
There’s a couple variations of the odyssey, one where Odysseus does in fact drop the infant, and other versions where one of his soldiers… I forget the name of said soldier… is the one to kill the infant. So really the infant dies either way but Jorge chose the one that would best tell the story he wanted which was Odysseus himself.
i might be wrong but i think that was eurilechus(idk if thats how his name is spelled) who dropped the childe in place of ody
yep! soldier you’re looking for is neoptolemus or pyrrhus (same person, just alt names), son of Achilles (hence “Neo, avenge your father, kill the brothers of Hector”)
Spoiler for epic the musical:
He did throw the infant off the wall ☺️☺️
I love this guy! Great attitude dude, keep being yourself. The evil cackling at his horror at Just A Man XD
Mortius' evil laughter as he played the next song was priceless
"Will these actions haunt my days"
Mortius: Y e s
19:14 I HAD THE SAME REACTION. I LITERALLY PAUSED BECAUSE I WAS SO SURPRISED. Casper's like Tiresias with that prophetic phrasing.
Why is his cackle the same one book readers of Game of Thrones had when their friends watched the Red Wedding
favorite part of this was relating to you, watching you as he reacts to the song just reminds me of myself showing my friends things.
Remember the good old days when Diomedes would lead the charge, and Agemenmon would flank the guards?
can i just say how much i love the dynamic between you two! I love your excitement in getting to share the musical, as well as your ability to give insight and clarity, meanwhile Casper brings an entirely different perspective. Cant wait to see more of these!!
"This is getting out of hand. Now there are two of them!" -Nute Gunray
In the original text dropping the baby was the first turning point in which odysseus really started to question and waver in his mentor’s teachings.
Greek mythology is also heavily grounded in mortals and in some cases gods being unable to change their fate no matter the struggle. Take the story of oedipus for example. So what Zeus was really saying was do you want to kill an infant or your wife and son. Choose.
"Horse and the Infant" is SUCH a strong start to a musical, it sucks you in IMMEDIATELY, that first minute starting right in the action, the sentimentality of "Penelope~ " + the heartbeat, it's so good
7:35 I just love how in this animation Agamemnon just freight trains the guards! :D
Odysseus does in fact drop the baby from a wall in the Odyssey
Also, there other versions where Achilles son killed the baby.
There is even a version where Neo (son of Achilles) beats the last king of Troy to death(the baby's grandfather) with infants body.
gigi is such a great animator, it makes me so sad their animatic for ruthlessness is almost never watched by reaction videos
Oh this is gonna be fun
Coming back to this after the latest saga released and going through this again with you and a first-time reactor…. Sure brings up many new feelings in regards to these songs. xD
So excited!
Damn this is premiering right when my break ends. Guess I’ll see it after work
Odysseus does kill Hector's child at the "beginning of the Odyssey" or the end of the Iliad. Or in another side poem idk but it is canonical to the story. He kills the child by throwing him from the walls of Troy. It's dark but that's Greek Mythology for ya.
Yeeees! Drag anyone you can into the hyper fixation. It's for their own good. (That's what I tell myself as I very carefully attempt to get everyone I know hooked on it.)
Oh god! People! Get ready!!!
Y'all are so cute xD
I love how excited you are.
The chaotic laughter after you ask "when does a man become a monster?" 😭✋🏾
I'm convinced if EPIC ever gets a stage production "Just a Man" will be the song they sing at the Tonys
How could it be anything else?? It's such a beautiful & powerful song
When the tree is growing, just before Odysseus picks the child up, you get a shot of him walking towards the crib. The trees branches from the shape of the child's face after he grows up and comes back for revenge. It's literally showing what he'll grow into
Thank you guys for being so much fun!! You two are like the male versions of myself and one of my best friends 😁
Just a man was the second song from the epic I heard, I imagined a lullaby style with a child listening to their grandfather's war stories. OH HOW I WISH IT WAS
17 hours ago Gigi posted the animatic of Monster - The underworld saga!!! I think is the one to react!!
I know that you already listed to/watched the animatics fior EPIC up until to the circe saga, but I hope you two can react on the whole act 1 together up to the underworld saga. I really love you guy's discussions.
Also when he says “if you don’t end him now you’ll have no one left to save” that’s all the gods coming in and singing
I desperately wish I had friends who would let me have the experience you are having in this video. Ive gotten a couple people to listen to Epic, but I wasn't able to get their reaction! We've obviously chatted about it but it is just so sad to not get that initial reaction.
I’m literally doing a school presentation on why epic is…well, epic! I’m helping spread the word every way I know how
Welcome to grecian mythology. Tragedy is their bread and butter
I have to say i adore your dynamic while watching this, the context you provide and the fresh reactions he has make for an amazing reaction vid!! Can't wait to see the vid on his channel!!❤❤
"I can make sure his past is never known"
"The Gods will make him know"
Well damn, if you were just gonna threaten the guy, ya should have led with that.😂
23:35 in the mirror we see trees as the supports for the the bed, gig made a direct connection to the Odyessy here. **SPOILER FOR END OF ODYSSEY** (this is not major plot but it is how Penelope confirms it is her husband)
Penelope test Odysseus once he returns home, in this test she mentions that the bed was moved, which tiggers Odysseus that anyone else knows and even more so touched the bed. The secret that their bed was centered and carved from a Tree. Odysseus carved it, it is their marriage bed and one servant knew of it. This is how she knew her husband was home.
EXCITED to see more Epic content and reactors! ❤🎉
Astyanax dying in the siege of Troy is pretty universal in the sources. Exactly which Greek did it varies. The Odyssey (being set entirely after the war but making numerous references to past events) doesn’t actually mention it, but we know in the lost epic Iliupersis it was Odysseus, so this was a choice by Jorge on which sources he wanted to draw on and incorporate.
Neeed need thw rest of this series
Oh man, I love people discovering Epic. It’s an absolute blast to practically see the thoughts unfold. ESPECIALLY when it’s someone who knows music. I’m not very in the know when it comes to music, but I ADORE anything art-nerdy, which is one of the reasons as to why I like Epic so much. And, of course, I like music. And Greek mythology. And history (I’m literally a Humanities student). I’m also a theatre kid, so this literally could not be more up my alley!! But rambling aside. I love to see people begin to unpack everything, and see them get *excited* about it. Because we know, it only gets better (and worse, emotionally) from here
Mortius at the end of the infant and the horse was pure evil
I saw the Peter Barber channel reactions advertised to me on TH-cam, then I watched those 4 covering the Troy saga and loved them. They added to my experience. Then another reactor was advertised to me. They both mentioned Fox and Mortious. So now I’ve watched ALL of M’s reactions (had a blast) and I’m finally here in chronological order and WILL be watching all these reactors lol. You’ve all gained another winion subscriber ❤
I immediately sent this comment to Casper too I appreciate this so much thanks for being here man
That is just such a great double reaction!
Becoming a member of the epic fandom is great because its like "Hey Guys! Ive heard a lot of great stuff about this musical and i appreciate you letting me join! ... Why are you all holding knives?"
PLEASE tell me you're gonna show em a wolfythewitch animatic. they're SO evocative and well made.
He said in the beginning that full speed ahead will be wolfy's animatic :)
The bird was an Eagle. The Eagle is Zeus's sacred animal.
It shouldve been obvious but i just realized that the background vocals coming in in just a man is DEFINITELY odysseus walking up to over the war to the balcony (or whatever), ready to drop the baby
I can't wait for the to react to the newest animations of Gigi....
So tempted to get the patreon free trial but I have to wait until you finish the underworld saga so I can see all of it-
I recorded the underworld saga last Saturday, it’s already up for the Edeity patrons 😈
@@officialmortius
:0
I am begging you two to do a duet reaction with the whole musical, this is so great
Man you got me happy flapping/arm-waving/stimming all over the place in excitement! This was so fun, and also highly relatable as I have also shared some of my musical hyperfixations with my friends as well! Totally gonna go check out part 2!
ONE OF US ONE OF US
ONE OF US, ONE OF US
13:57 Zeus sounds like Tomi at some points not the whole time but they sound similar maybe just the "a vision of" only but still but since he can sound different when singing not speaking one or its the dramatic flare and acting seem similar
What i enjoy about the horse and the infant is that when the army or whoever is the "choir" part ask what do you live for, what do you try for, what do you whish for and what do you fight for for the second time he answers. The first question is what do you live for and Ody answers Penelope, the second question what do you try for he answers with Telemacus, what do you wish for he answers with I'm on my way. The last one he answers with attack wich kinda doesn't work but I always enjoy listening to that part of Ody trying to I don't know center himself before the battle and thinking of the people he loves.
Now that it's being brought up by you to someone else & I'm actively thinking about it (the fact that it's a quarter after 2 when I'm watching this video probably doesn't help either,) but the reason why the gods are allowed to "break the rules" is actually because of storytelling themes that are deeply baked into the structure of Greek myth: the gods are able to enforce their will by virtue of divine mandate, or they're allowed to do what they do explicitly *_BECAUSE_* of their status of gods. By contrast, humans must enforce their will not by virtue of who they are, but by wresting the power to do so, typically through collecting a group of similarly aligned people working together with the same goal in mind. Given Greece's history at the time being almost solely being defined by drawing disparate ideologies together to create a potent force, such themes are to be expected; however, it's important to note that these themes are recursive throughout these myths: be it a son looking to overthrow his tyrant father, a group of soldiers led by their king to escape the grasp of the gods they've angered by attacking their seat of worship, or the gods themselves defying and defeating the titans who before the age of the gods acted like oppressors, the themes remain the same no matter what level the scope lays at.
Personally, I find it a rather fascinating aspect of Greek mythology that you don't see too much in other mythologies, or if such aspects were there, the original meanings behind the iconography has either been muddied to the point of irrelevance (Roman mythology,) or the original meanings have been lost to time (Aztec mythology)
Mortius is literally me anytime i show a friend one of my obsessions