Absolutely. To suggest big power is required in order for a car to "count" as a sports car is to suggest that the Mx5 isn't a sports car, which doesn't make sense at all if you consider that SCCA Spec Miata is the single largest class in motorsport today. It simply doesn't make sense. Like the car or not, it looks to me like the new 240x.
Hunter Thornquist Well, for Chris Harris the Miata is not a sports car, check out his review. i'm pissed because he loves the GT86 while shits on the Miata for being to slow etc...
Stumbled upon this gem after seeing nearly every other modern GR86, 370Z, and family owns a 2006 Boxster S already. These comparisons never get old and little gems like this from 10 years ago really impact my thoughts especially on the 370Z today.
Same here..... I have come to look at it differently. I would go for the z because you can fix its handling issues. It's going to be a lot more expensive and difficult to make the BRZ faster. The Porsche is also going to be a headache to keep maintained.
I have own three of them the pass. The 370z is fast but heavy when cornering. The 86/frs/brz slow but fast when cornering. The Cayman S fast straight and cornering but it double the price. Btw I sold them so I could buy a GTR Nismo in Forza Motorsport 7.
I have a 370Z sport coupe with Hotchkis sways and Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires and the car handles its weight very well around corners. I can generate more than 1 g in lateral and longitudinal acceleration and still maintain good control.
My previous cars mostly had over 400hp. Over 500hp in some cars. I've owned MKIV Supra Turbo with T-78 turbo, Evo 8 with 2.3 stroker, GT35R, and meth injection, STi with GT30R, 350Z with built block and APS TT, IS300 with GTE swap, FD RX-7 with LS6 swap, etc... Damn, I can't even remember all of the cars. All cars were highly modified thoroughly(engine, suspension, hardened mounts and bushings galore, etc.). Then I drove a GT86... and I'm hooked so much that I am buying one!! Yes, the power is low. In fact, it's been a while since I drove a car with an usable first gear. Hahaha. But the driving position, the feedback you get, and the way the car responds to your inputs... all together create an amazing driving experience. I was one of those who kept criticizing 86 for the lack of power continuously since its debut. I hated Toyota/Subaru for not producing a TRD/STi version of this car as I thought I needed 300HP at the very least. But after one drive, I get it. This car is all about the driving experience. It is never about posting the fastest lap times or winning drag races. If you want to compete with other cars, look elsewhere. If I really feel the need to increase the power, there are plenty of aftermarket options available. I think adding a supercharger is a great way to add power to these cars as it keeps the throttle response unlike turbos. Even if I wanted to add more power, I do not think I would want anything more than 300HP, as I do think that too much power will actually ruin the experience. If you haven't driven one, go try it. Although you might not feel that this is not the right car for you, I guarantee that you will enjoy the experience if you are a true car enthusiast.
rollintroll You're welcome. I actually bought a BRZ two weeks ago and I'm am enjoying it very much. It really is great fun to drive. Yes, it is not fast by any means but it feels like the car really talks to me and that it is I who is doing all the work, not the car. Plus, the stock tires have little grip so it's really easy to slide it around, which is also good fun. I'm eventually planning to add a SC but at the moment, I am really enjoying the car as it came from the factory.
SolitudeMG I see the point of a gt86/brz but I think people are just pretending the ae86 is back. Personally I would go for the 370z and then if I feel like it go for a suspension, spring, brakes, tyres ecc rather than putting my hands on the engine. It s good to have a good driving experience but in my opinion for 30.000€ it's too expensive.
Carlo Gigante I've never driven a 370Z but owned a 350Z with Nismo suspension, Stoptech BBK, APS TT, and built engine. Yes, it's faster in a straight line and has a nicer interior, but it also does not have the steering feel and balance of 86/BRZ. Make no mistake. 86/BRZ is slow in a straight line. There is no denying that. However, well balanced chassis and great feedback is not something that can be had by adding modifications. Yes, it can be done. But it is difficult and you might still never be able to get good feedback from the car about what it is doing. Lastly, 370Z is far heavier than 86/BRZ. By the time you make 370Z as light as 86/BRZ, it will no longer have the nicer interior than 86/BRZ, if it is even possible to lose that much weight and still be driven on the streets. I know it is really hard to ignore the "200HP" as family sedans these days have far more than that. Hell, my daily driver is more than 1 full second faster than my BRZ to 100kph. However, adding power is the easiest part of modifying a car. Setting up a balanced chassis? It is hard. Making the car give good driver feedback? Nearly impossible with a car that did not come like that from the factory. It took me 3 years to overlook the power figures and give this car a chance. Once I did, I fell in love in an instance. I drove cars that had more than 400 to the wheels in the past, and I still got hooked on 86/BRZ. Try it. Like I have mentioned, it might not be the right car for you, but I guarantee you that you will enjoy the test drive if you truly are a motoring enthusiast.
"370z vs 86 is like comparing a chainsaw to hedge clippers they both get the job done, but one will do it much faster, the other will do it slower but with more finesse." - some dude (or girl) on a 370z vs 86. I think they got it about right.
@Joseph C. as a 370Z owner, I would say no it won’t, frs has a more superior chassis. A set of coilovers can improve the shortcomings of the z but the chassis is still a bit heavy and it just doesn’t do it that well on the track. Also, 370Z lack of a proper differential from factory.
@Joseph C. I agree, frs is too slow on street but fun on track. 370Z is fast on street but need some proper mods to address the shortcomings of the car. I would say 370Z at least needs suspension mods, a proper differential and an oil cooler to be excel on the track
Toyota must have done something right to have all these people hating on the car they designed. Why do you guys come on here to hate for? It's a shame you have haters like the ones in the comment section. True car enthusiasts appreciate every car and understand every car serves a purpose. Every car's essence precedes its existence for that very reason. It's a shame some people are narrow-minded and can't understand what Toyota was trying to accomplish with this car. And it's a shame you can't appreciate it either. I don't go around hating on cars I don't like. I understand, however, that they serve a purpose. Speed is not everything. Why can't some people understand that? Cheers, everyone.
I don't know anyone who hates the GT86 / BRZ / FR-S. It is awesome that a company produced a front mid-engine rear wheel drive car in that price range. I would take a 370z over it personally, but I'm not on a budget and I don't like drifting.
I think it's a good car with an identity crisis. It just felt too hard to be a DD for me and it seems too slow to be a good dedicated track car. It just doesn't fit anywhere for me in the spectrum of cars.
Juan Cuara Well said sir, I dont understand why fellow driving enthusiasts, like to say bad things about peoples personal cars, just because its not there particular taste. Ive always put myself in there shoes, every car guy loves their car and believe its special, so who am I to say its not!!
+Juan Cuara You, my friend, are some bizarre, existential, brilliance. Well said. "every car's essensce precedes its existence." The makers of those early autos are rolling in there graves in a macabre dance of the day of the dead at that jest. Well said, well said. Cheers to you, sir. There is not nearly enough posts from people like yourself who have something to say. So often I feel like I'm alone in this world filled with petty bickering. -future cannonballrun record holder.
The BRZ/FRS/gt86 is amazing. I freaking love it. Mine modified a bit and it's sooooooo much better than stock. You can't buy this car without adding headers and a tune. I've always thought it's fast enough, but besides that it just feels so fkn good when you're driving. If you hate on it over speed, seriously, you're stupid. It gets stupid quick with some mods, and if you add a turbo (or fi), well, you can't complain about speed anymore. I've had mine for over 2 years. I work from home so no work miles. I have about 48k miles in 2 years and 19 days give or take a day......I spend my lunch breaks to go get a coffee then take the back roads home. That's how fun this car is. Oh and if you like or love attention...buy this car, out some 18s and coil overs on and get rdy to be sued for broken necks lol
I really, really wanted a 370Z, I wanted to love it but after driving one I can't do it. They're a great car for people after that thing but it was more a GT than I expected. I sold my MX-5 NB and got an 86 and so far it's great. My Dad bought a Cayman GT4 and it's a phenomenal car, wonderful to drive on road and track - but it's in another league when it comes to running costs. I don't need P-Zeros or worry about scraping carbon fibre with the 86. Sure it's not perfect but it's a great little thing.
***** thats the best choice. congrats ( from a porsche-fanboy) ! The costs to maintain a porsche are way too much. If you wanna keep it nice and clean and get alle the Porsche Services you are gonna bleed. Question: Is the GT86 really THAT underpowered as everybody is whining ? i can't believe that
Popo popopopo , nah mate. They're not underpowered. Sure, an extra 50kw would be great, but they're fine the way they are. If you keep it above 5000 RPM they're quick, and due to their excellent handling, you can maintain a lot of speed in the corners. Great cars!
+Mitchell Denham i agree not underpowered at all, i find my BRZ very torquey at lower rpms too, i have lost many sportscars in my rear view mirror up hills.
Who is here after Chris dropped his review of the GR86 on February 4, 2024? I’ve watched this video hundreds of times through the years and seeing Harris in 2024 still gives me chills. Keep driving, keep shifting friends.
Chris did a great job summarizing the chassis balance and the way the rear end moves around. You'll always end up chasing a bit of wiggle in corners because it's so damn fun.
I’ve had a Cayman for 8 years and an GT86 for 9 months. The Caymans’ never gone wrong and has always been brilliant but pretty its much perfect as is. The GT86 is a total blast and is cheap to modify which kinda makes it more rewarding to own.
thanks Chris. Thoughtful and well presented analysis. I am always trying to tell the Holden V8 aficianados (here in Australia) that everything doesn't depend on 0-100 time and huge power oversteer. Cars like the Toyota 86 and Mazda MX5 are wonderfully rewarding cars even with their modest power
I love both the 86 and the 370z. Both are great cars created for different segments. If a person chooses an 86, it is because he/she falls into the segment the 86 was designed for. Likewise, if you prefer the 370z, then you are in the segment the 370z was designed for. It is really that simple. Enjoy the car for what it was designed for. If every car can be lined up and a single best car chosen, we will end up with 1 model, much like the Model T. God forbid that.
Well balanced review. Just had a test drive in an 86 today, considered buying a used Cayman S a while back, never thought about the Nissan because it looks like a shoe. The thing about the 86 is that it is more fun, more of the time. In the Cayman you have to go 60-90 to make you smile. In the Toyota you need to approach a roundabout at 30. Throw in that new car smell with low running costs and it's got me. Can't wait to drive everywhere at 1000 smiles per hour
Chris Harris is breaking into a new way to compare cars. He delivers wanted and needed information to consumers and discusses the cars qualities on an sublime level.
I recently bought 2011 Z and disagree with a lot of the comments Chris makes here. To be honest the steering isn't the worlds best, but it's not bad either, particularly seeing though 9 out of 10 people will not push beyond this mythical "8/10ths" thing he keeps chirping on about, unless you track it which is a different story altogether. My last car was a Megane RS250 and that knows a fair few things about going round corners being the fastest FWD car round the ring, F1 tech in the suspension etc, and honestly, now I would rather have a car that looks amazing, makes a good noise that you can occasionally smoke someone at the lights in. The whole interior thing as well, that is down to choice and what you ask for/look for... Mine for example has leather and alcantara seats, stitched leather, Sat Nav/DVD player, the GT86 by comparison looks like came out of a cereal box. Think my point is, yes the GT86 looks fun but why is it neccessary, on public roads to push so hard that the Z becomes not as good as the other 2!? I would happily have a used Cayman,great car, but being 5 years older than mine with 50K more miles for the same money... It's an easy choice. Bit of a biased, nonsense review if you ask me.
It's a blast. And really small, like small to the point where you can lose it in a parking lot because average cars just completely cover it. I don't think its underpowered, I mean yeah if you've coming from an STi you won't think its quick..but for me 200hp is the most hp car I've owned and this car is light as fuck so that works in it's favor more than a normal car with 200hp. The 0-60 is the same time as the Focus ST, which is also a really small car, and that weighs like 500lbs more and has a turbo so this car isn't that bad. It could use 30-50hp more and it'd be perfect. I've already got a ticket in it, 82 mph in a 55mph, getting the red version didnt help..But the driving is great, I can't get enough I've already put 4,000 miles on it, and planning to take it to Virginia International Raceway next month to get this speeding out of my system lol. Also, it gets really good gas mileage even when you beat on it. I'm getting 28mpg and I haven't been babying it. I don't have a winter car either so its just the FRS 365. Should be fun in the snow! Hoping to change the tires and get an exhaust in the next couple months.
+moldyrefrigerator That's the thing! I love mine but i just need A LITTLE more. I already have a catback and i plan on going with some headers and a tune and i should be good to go. Plan on doing a little sound deadening and an upgraded stereo and i should be set to go till i have kids!
I had a 06 Boxster S before switching to a BRZ and I wouldn't go back. Don't bother with the Cayman, you already have the better car ;) You cant beat the practicality + fun factor of an 86.
aaah this is interesting treminaor! Eventually i will see the 86 so If i was to move on to another sports car which has more power than the 86 what would you recommend?
If you love the 86 enough you could always throw a supercharger in it, there's plenty of research and choices for that available online. But for choosing a better car it really depends on if you want 4 seats and cargo space like you have with the 86 if you're okay with a 2 seat golf club mobile like a boxster/cayman.
Also the reliablity of an 86 vs other sports cars is nearly unbeatable. You have to buy old to get an affordable luxury sports car and by that time they are high miles and out of pocket service. My 06 Boxster S only had 30k miles on it when I bought it and after 15k miles in a year I'd already spent around $3,000usd on repairs and maintenance. I sold it just recently for $25k and bought a 2016 BRZ off the lot for $27k.
I have an 86, and it is brilliant fun. It'll do skids without trying. Yes it's not quick and the interior is a tad rattly but I don't care, I love it. I make any excuse to go drive it.
Thanks Chris! Not sure how many times I watched this video but after scouring western Canada for a 2006ish Cayman vs an FRS (GT86 in Canada) I did one better and happened upon a used 2013 FRS with the TRD kit and a carbon hood parked on a dealer lot with only 13,000km. In Canada the TRD versions in 2015/2016 run up to $31K Canadian but if you do your homework you can find one like mine that is not even broken in with the balance of the warranty for @$20,000. Compared to 10 year old Caymans with 100,000km for $30-40,000 (even lovely mint ones have 50-60,000km) there was no better bargain than jumping into my FRS in early November, throwing on some Michelin Xice 3's and some weight in the trunk and driving it all winter!! Why? Because if I had a lovely blue Cayman I would be like most Porsche owners and park it, too worried about my paint chips and windscreens that cost $1000's ... my buddy with a 911 4s (cabrio - no he's not a hair dresser) wishes he drove his car like I drive mine!!
Im not sure whos gonna see this on an 8 year old video, but if anybodys looking to get one of these cars as a daily driver whether new or used you also have to think of this. Youre not just paying for the car, you still have to pay for insurance, fuel and other maintenance items. For insurance in toronto i was quoted $3400 a year for a 2014 frs, for a 2014 370z i was quoted $4375 a year because nissan Z cars are considered high risk vehicles, and on a 2014 cayman i was surprisingly quoted $3100 a year. But parts are more expensive on the porsche than the toyota or nissan and fuel economy is important on a daily driver, and the frs has the best fuel economy out of all 3, and it has the most storage space. so in my opinion the frs would be the best daily driver. plus youll get in less trouble with it too
I'm in Alberta and I have a FRS for 6 year now. I have a insurante and I paid 1100 dollars for the FRS and a Honda CRV (The FRS is a full cover) I don't know if depends of the province, drive history or age of the driver.
This is why the 86 is brilliant. Larger tires don't always mean they're better for the car. I think recently the fascination of a wider wheel and tire has been more for aesthetic interest than actual tactical performance. The R&D at toyota and subaru have that car set up to put down a remarkable near- 1 lateral G on 215/45-17's while keeping that amount of drivability.
man you impress me every time. i love your reviews & tests, honest point of views excellent driving skills, think outside the box. whenever i'm looking for a review first thing i type is "Chris Harris", thumbs Up keep them coming !
i took a 370 z Nismo for a drive today (2019 version) and it was an incredible drive It reminded me of a track car like a 911 GT2 and sounded like a Viper. Great car
@@patrickmurphy5842 take one out to the canyons or drive a boosted one and you will change your mind. A supercharged 86 supposedly has a better power to weight ratio than a 911 turbo... or so i hear, I love my 86. It could definitely use alot more hp in a straight line though. I only really notice when I have passengers or I race someone in a straight line.
I drive one of those as a Subaru BRZ ... and loved it since the first day.. nice looking .. cheap on gasoline.. fast enough and my god being with it on a highway is a delightful experience
My 2013 10 Series GT86 has the following: 18x8.75 +33 wheels 235/40R18 Hankook RS4's TRD coil springs Whiteline camber bolts Grimspeed shock tower brace Berk dual muffler delete exhaust Perrin solid transmission mount Sound tube delete Racesceng billet cam plate covers And occasionally a Sparco Sprint race seat All of this makes one of the grippiest and enjoyable track cars/daily drivers I've ever had, and I've had and have lots of cars...
I like the food comparison of the 370z as a big plate of ok tasting food whereas the FR-S is a small plate of very tasty food. I prefer a small plate of very tasty food.
I had a 370 z with intake and exhaust upgrades, volks with grippy tires, and stiffer sway bars and coilovers. For some reason my new stock BRZ tS is putting more smiles on my face 😁😁😁 than the Z. I just feel more alive driving it. Yes the BRZ doesn’t have the punch the Z has on the straights but I still think the BRZ is more fun to drive!
This is a better comparison. I don't think anyone buys a base Z unless they want to mod it. The NISMO is more fun stock, but it's a different price level too. Price wise, the GT86 is more comparable to a Miata.
The GT86 is lots of fun with somewhat low power, The 350Z is a lot less fun with a lot more power The Cayman is 80% the fun of the GT86 and 80% the power of the 350Z, the best of both worlds.
but the cayman costs even 2nd hand little bit more than a fabric new gt86 and as well you get an 86 for 15k with not that much kilometers on the tachometer
Chris Harris is an amazing host, great work, love hearing your reviews. I wonder why he didn't compare the FRS to the Honda S2000 as well. Amazing handling, RWD, light, affordable, great driver input...
@Elliot Rodger Don't get me wrong I love porsches but when i looked into buying one Boxer S (with the flat 6 engine) I quickly changed my mind. Endless problems down the road especially because they hardly are driven easy (lower end models even more). These are the type of cars one should buy new or almost new and look after them. No daydreaming ecc cuz your gonna end up with a time bomb.
@Elliot Rodger Good for you! I'd rather go for a gt86 test car or a new one at the right price since in italy the 370z has to pay a whopping €2000 a year in taxes (not including insurance ecc). Plus I'll be comforted by Toyota's 5 year warranty and mild depreciation. Good luck and have fun!
That’s so not true I hav a 987 Boxster a owner it for 6 months and yes there is a coolant leak with 3 pipes to be changed That costed me 760£ Nth close to what u said
At $16,000 all it takes is one catastrophic engine failure and you're already at 30 grand. All it would take is an average of $3,000 a year for a few years to get to that 30 Grant. But shouldn't be hard to do in any high mileage German vehicle. Clutch replacement transmission issue.
I did a lot of reading before I bought my FR-s two months ago. I do a 122 mile round trip commute on kentucky back roads every day that are very much like the roads in this test, except smoother and more corn and Tobacco. The way he breaks loose on corners and little hills is exactly what I experience every single day. I've done' some amazing completely neutral drifts. I look, forward to driving to work every morning. No deer strikes yet...
Also the reason why that car slips so easily is because it has the same tires that go on the prius. Pretty sure if you put fiesta wheels on a mustang it'd be a similar deal. Aside this was a great review! Love the fact that Harris put the Cayman into the spotlight. Changes your perspective on the whole situation.
awww you described it so nicely! i miss that feeling in my old '85 toyota corolla gts. I've been looking at the new toyota, and thank you for focusing on how enjoyable it is to drive!
Great video. I feel the GT86 is like a new-born version of the good old japanese fun cars from the 85-90s like a CRX or, more spot on an AE86 of course. Cheap, Reliable, insurable and maintainable fun :D You might buy the used Cayman but then the cost to insure, maintain etc... is definitely not the same.
I've had my GT86 for going on 2 years now and it's my daily driver. Mine is a late 2013 car so is now over 10 years old. I bought it as one of the cheapest in the country at the time - clean titled but had clearly experienced a neglectful owner in the recent past and had almost 100k on the clock when I got it with some questionable roadman geared modifications that have since been undone. Before him though it had been well looked after going on receipts. I've racked up about 10k in it and seen a fair amount of admittedly expensive recommissioning that I'll never see back money-wise. Things like an entirely new gearbox, exhaust and the replacement of just about every common wear component because as I say the previous owner ragged it. That said, it has never missed a beat. I love it to bits and every time I drive it, seamlessly blends being a reasonably comfortable car capable of munching up miles for reasonable fuel bills in the week, with the ability to be just about the most enjoyable experience behind a steering wheel I've ever had at weekends. I often find myself allowing extra journey time at weekends outside of my drives for driving's sake to take roads like the one Chris is on in the video. It's fantastic and leaves me looking like a Cheshire cat. I think it is all well and good to compare the car to a 370 or a Cayman as realistically those are the close comparisons. But in the real world, it was/is competing with hot hatches and the likes of the Audi TT and Mazda MX5 more than anything else.
The Scion Fr-s is simply the best all around sports car there is...period! the amount of engineering that went in to making this car and what you get, is simply amazing -- this car will be a future classic and now especially after Scion brand is no longer -- the Scion Fr-s will now be even more sought after.
Don't feel insulted or anything about this, but if you want to talk about the best all round sports car, I'm assuming you are talking about specifications as you say it is well engineered. I feel that the Alfa Romeo 4C is an exemplary sports car that is clever, fast enough (in the same way The gt86 is) stylish and handles well. If you also factor in price, the GT86 is better, but other than price, the 4C is far better
If the 4C had a manual gearbox, the ability to turn off the traction control, and a physical gauge cluster, it would have been at the top of my list for my 2nd car.
The 370z chris tests in this video does not have sport package! Get it with a sport pack and it adds a more taught suspension, bigger brakes, tires, and an LSD!
@PastIconoclast I only paid about $3K more for the 370Z sport coupe that I got and I thought it was well worth the price for what I got. It also has a nice aero package, upgraded Bose sound system and synchro rev match on the 6-speed manual transmission. The 370Z sport version is more narrowly focused as a pure driver's car, something that I specifically wanted.
I enjoyed this video and most of Chris Harris videos, but I wouldn't take his verdict too close to heart. If you know anything about Harris you know that he isn't having fun unless he can throw(drift) a car around a road like a ragdoll. OFF COURSE he loves the Toyota, it was built to be a modern AE86 Trueno. The 370Z like its big brother GTR can be fitted for drifting but it's built for and much more suited to grip driving. You get way more car than the Toyota and mine is very fun to drive and can be scary fast. And its sexy, especially with the added NISMO exhaust. The Porsche is a Porsche and you WILL pay for it one way or another.
put a supercharger, turbo exhaust, and an upgraded cooling system on a 2014 frs for 6 grand at most to make it the best budget sports car (you can get a barely used 2014 for 20 grand)
2006 guards red cayman S owner, just came across this video. not once have I regretted my purchase, and honestly the only things I can possibly consider trading it up for is a newer carerra S or a used audi r8. It simply spanks everything else within 40 or 50 grand.
I love Chris Harris but in this case I'm going to call him out. Total hypocrisy! How can you go on about how a car makes you "feel" and how great the BRZ/GT86 is right after he completely denounced the MX5/Miata?
I just switched from a stock 2003 Miata to a Brz. The Miata is shit stock, yes it’s fun and flickable but body roll is tremendous and understeer the Brz is a much more focused sports car.
The Porsche looks like the bargain there until you consider running costs of a 10 year old, 70k miles performance car... No thanks. Personally, I also think that big HP figures on the public road is not really the way to go. Legally in most countries the most you'll ever be able to do is 70mph, and if your car can do that in 4ish seconds, where's the fun? These are not designed to be track cars... I recently had to have my car repaired, and wringing the neck of the little 1.2 they gave me while I waited was a lot more fun than I remembered. It went nowhere fast, but put a massive grin on my face. A car that makes you work a bit for your performance is surely where the fun is on the road? Out of these 3, the one I'm most excited about is hands down the GT86. I'd love to have one.
This is the first time I have seen this video on February 10th 2024, I absolutely love the 86, and I have loved it for the past 10 years when I saw one in real life and instantly fell in love, it literally is the reason why I love cars, but Chris just put it together SO well. He completely understands motoring, cars, driving, the 86, the Z, the Cayman, wow man. I don't know how I missed this masterpiece of a video for so long, but this perfectly reflects my view of the car world: The 86 and the Cayman are the best things out there.
Ever since I watched this video a decade ago I really wanted an 86, finally after keep buying sedans like the manual is250 and the manual is300 finally pulled the trigger on a 2019 86 TRD and man it’s in a different class. The driving position to the steering feel to the suspension it’s just an amazing experience. Don’t really give a damn about the 0-60 cause I only enjoy to Cary speed through the corners on tight back roads!
It's the feeling you actually get from the particular power from the ride man since Toyota 86 delivers 200 horsepower not my type still love the car though but my type and choice is the 370z !
I used to own a modded 370. It just feels heavy when turning. The way it steers is kinda sloppy compared to BRZ. My new BRZ is more fun stock. Not as punchy on the straights but I guess more power will ruin the perfect balance of the car. Toyota engineer explained it something like a triangle with equal lengths and angles
Issue here is most of the buyers (and drivers without track training) can't drive very consistently at 10/10. It's either 6/10 or 15/10...or some imbalance thereof. And that's the part that makes the Toyota 86 so difficult for most people to grasp in reason of existence. It's truly wonderful at anywhere between the range and begs the driver to challenge 10/10 for those who love to be there.
Recently test drove a 370z and tbh I can't wrap my head around on many things you said in this video. Since i've watched this video when it came out and also looked at the things you said here in particular I don't really understand what you mean. The engine doesn't get weezy at all and for sure not above 5k rpm, the steering definitely isn't the best but it's not the worst either, and well the only thing I can understand in some way is the gear-shift as it does get a bit "restrictive" when shifting fast (not rubbery though). And the seating position in this video can't be any more odd. The 370z has one of the best seats and one of the best seating positions for me of almost all sports cars i've driven so far. And the 8/10 hm not too sure as I was happily sliding when I was asking for it and going through corners rather stable when I didn't want to go all out. I haven't driven a GT86 nor a BRZ yet since they're quite hard to test drive here but when I get the opportunity I'll compare the two even more closely :) The thiong I can say is that you should test drive all the cars first before copying an opinion from someone else simply because in the end it's just an opinion ;) Cheers guys.
It depends on the trim level, in all honesty. It was never mentioned which version of the 370z he was driving. There's the base, sport, touring and Nismo. Base is all around an unpleasant experience if you push it, Sport and Nismo are where it's at and I really don't understand the reason why the touring model even exists now that you can get Sport Tech and Nismo Tech.
MrWholetrain00 Exactly right - hell, anyone who has seen a 370Z dyno chart knows it makes power across the entire range and continues making more and more power all the way to redline. There's a reason the Fast and the Furious movies use 370Zs a lot - especially in #3 (Tokyo Drift).
If you've ever owned a DC2 type r, you know what he's talking about with the toyota. It's hasn't got the most powerful engine but it is hugely exciting. Paired with an amazing chassis, it's just so much fun to blast around in. Iv owned much more powerful cars since but the DC2 is still my favourite car I've owned.
I loved my GT86, but after about 18 months the lack of power was too annoying to deal with. So, I bought a 370Z, installed a catback, coil-overs and CA intake. An aggressive alignment makes it steer much quicker. It's much better than stock now. And plenty fast for me!
I think you would like the Z much more if you had tested one equipped with the Sport pack. The wider tires and better brakes help bring the experience to life by allowing you to wring more out of the car (i.e. those last 2/10's). Also a good exhaust gets rid of that Dyson-esq tone, and a nice set of sway bars will really subdue the jiggling in the corners.
I have a 2019 370Z sport coupe 6M and had a set of stiffer Hotchkis sway bars installed and a set of Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires. They helped make an already great handling car even better handling.
Look at this video at 7:10. No wonder the Z falls apart above 8/10ths. It's on bald ass rear tires! Hardly a fair assessment, any car will handle like ass with no rear grip. A Z on good tires is no GT86 but they are pretty fun nonetheless, with good high speed stability and a rear end that grips and slips predictably in the slower stuff. Stock suspension and tires make the balance a little understeery but that's easier to fix than the GT86's power deficit.
As a 370Z owner, I can see where Chris is coming from on his criticisms but, it's not as bad as he makes it out to be. The car is fine as a daily driver and, an awful lot of fun for 1/2 the price of a Cayman S ...It's not a Porsche Chris.
Yeah my 350z only has 300hp, and its heavy... but I guess the power to weight ratio is still better than the gt86 if I'm gapping it in a straight line. My Z handles and grips just fine with my wide Nitto tires. Also my Z makes horny sounds when in drifting the intersection. I'll keep my Z lol
I don't know if I agree having test drove the GT86 before and the 370Z yesterday. I tested it on a mixture of country roads and a dual carriage way and it just had me smiling, thrilled excited and loving life (but feeling close to death)! The engine sounded fantastic, the auto rev matching downshifts performed well, everything felt good. However I didn't really get to test it properly on country roads as i'd like due to traffic. I did love driving the GT86 but only got to drive it on a dual carriage way so this slippy exciting handling didn't really come into play. I liked the sound of it, the nimble feel - it didn't feel too big and clumsy. It felt like you were going faster than you are but there's part of the problem. At the lights trying to do a quick 0-60 I could barely pull away from people driving non-sports cars. It just felt underwhelming. I really can't believe they haven't brought out a turbo version of this car but I guess expensive aftermarket options are available. In terms of looks for me, the porsche is much more beautiful and iconic than all of them.
well anything more then the base z will drive the price up to uncomparable levels the stock base basement 370z with no options cost 3k more then fully loaded gt86 granted its not the same car but his trying to compare car with similar price tag and only the cheapest z with nothing option comes close to the gt86 in pricing
"Nissan falls to pieces (when you push it hard)?" Are you insane? The 370Z beats or keeps up with the best sports cars in the world on race tracks. You're simply wrong. And since when is 3300 pounds heavy? That's the same weight as a 2015 Corvette Stingray.
Autos389 www.motivemag.com/pub/feature/versus/Motive_Versus_Nissan_370Z_vs_Porsche_Cayman_S.shtml Nissan 370Z vs Porsche Cayman S "The Z's chassis responds more slowly but more fluidly than the Cayman - it may be that quick applications of throttle, mainly during transitions in which the suspension's still sorting itself out, can overwhelm the stability computers. When I turn it off, I discover the Z's dirty secret: Those controls shut the car down before it truly gets good, and the harder the 370Z is pushed, the better it gets. Nissan engineers kept the car's weight distribution at 53/47 front to rear, which doesn't seem ideal for a sports coupe. The theory is that the car's dynamic weight distribution - the balance when the car's accelerating out of a corner - becomes dead even as the load shifts. I believe it. With stability control on vacation, the car dives into corners without a hint of understeer and when I get back on the throttle earlier, the rear hunkers down, grabs hold of the road, and pushes out of the bend with tremendous grip. The transition between braking and getting back on the gas delivers just the right amount of rotation. Other than the seriously underpowered Miata, it's hard to think of another front-engine car for normal-people money with this much balance. It makes me wonder why Porsche went through all the effort of moving the engine somewhere so hard to get at."
@@Autos389 I have a 370Z sport coupe and I drive it with the stability control off and found that it handles exceptionally well in powering through twisty corners, did that on a very fast drive on California's coastal US 1 and was amazed at how well it performed. After I put stiffer Hotchkis sways and Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires on the car it became an even better handling car.
The VQ37VHR has a nearly flat torque curve from about 2K rpm to almost redline at 7500 rpm, thanks primarily to the VVEL intake valve timing technology. The corresponding horsepower curve is very linear over the whole rev range with maximum hp occurring close to the redline rpm. The Z was not designed to have a peaky engine that concentrates power over a specific rpm band. I had an old Porsche that was designed along the lines of an old-school race engine that was weak below 4300 rpm but exploded after 5k rpm. Highly tuned race engines like that can be demanding to drive on the street and require good concentration and alertness in order to be driven properly, so as to extract the most power from the engine.
Please Chris.. We all desperately want to see more of this new vs used cars. Oh and yes, I drove 500miles to trade in my 09 335i to 07 cayman s manual after watching this video. The car is sensational.
This dude test drove a base model 370z lmao. Not even got the sports package on it, the difference is huge, trust me I would know cause I own a 2017 370z Nismo. I would love for Chris to drive my Nismo and then give his opinions on it compared to the 86. Nismo brings in its in-house tuning and suspension from Yamaha, bigger brakes, upgraded aerodynamics, synchro rev match, bucket seats Alcantara and a lot more. If he drove that he would definitely have a change in opinion, I mean not only do I dust my two friends who have brz's and my one friend who has an FRS, but on the turns when we go backroading they can't keep up, I mean the Nismo brings in an insane track upgrade, I mean Nismo is a track company lmao they helped the skylines win all the races so it makes sense. However, I also wanted to mention how I felt a strong bias with Chris with the 86, as if Toyota had paid him and I'm seeing other people in the comments mention it too. Either way, don't use a base model z and compare it to the turning and racing feel when you could've at least got a sports package, grand touring, or even Nismo.
A Z with 5k in suspension, brakes and tires will flip this test on its head. I have a G35, bought it for 6 grand, modded it and I love driving it like it’s free
It's the peak of the Torque power actually. You could always ask these folks. www.reddit.com/r/370z/comments/9lch3m/powerbandtorquerange_questions_etc/
The torque curve of the VQ37VHR is nearly flat across the rev range from about 2K rpm to almost its redline at 7500 rpm. There is a slight peak at about 5200 - 5400 rpm but the engine's power is essentially linear over the whole rev range. The VVEL intake valve timing was designed to produce as flat a torque curve as possible and maximize the area under the torque curve. At high rpms the intake valves open fully and the throttle body opens fully and so you do hear a lot more intake noise, which is kind of cool because it sounds like the roar of an awakening beast. The fact that there are separate throttle bodies and fairly straight-run intake tracts for each of the two banks of cylinders may be a contributing factor for this intake noise. Nissan might have use a more twisted arrangement for the intake tracts to help diminish sound but that would have restricted airflow and reduced performance.
Chris doesn't talk much about torque here and I assume the Cayman is the winner in that. In the search for torque and lightness, what about the 86 vs Mx-5 ND, vs modded Fiat 124? I just sold my 1989 944t and only half regret it - 80's turbo lag and endless maintenance are real. This video is to me the best comparison and explanation of why Toyota actually have done something extraordinary.
There's no doubt that the 370z will absolutely destroy the BRZ..both drag racing and in turning. But the Brz is so much cheaper than the 370z and imo it looks nicer. Interiors are both kind of blah..i kind of like the Z interior better. Mileage is extremely better on the BRZ. And for the final con for both cars: Both RWD.
If you're looking for power stay FAR away from the BRZ/FRS. 370Z will absolutely demolish the BRZ in a straight line and probably the track. Don't listen to bias reviews, you need to testy drive both. I did and i am very happy with the 370z.
age, weight, small interior, no rear seats (may or may not matter) cost (buying and maintenence), power/stability at high RPM, gearbox. if you're looking for a cheap fun drivers car that's going to be reliable and a DD I would personally go BRZ/86 NA. headers, exhaust, intake, flex fuel and custom tune to run around 190whp all day everyday. coil overs, lightweight wider wheels & sticky tyres and race pads.
love that comment you made "people need to enjoy performance nature, rather than its quantity." Absolutely agree with that statement. Another quote from an experienced driver i can relate this too would be Jay Leno saying "the most fun happens between 0-60 mph". Horsepower and torque shouldn't make or break any vehicle. Great video.
Watch Tiff from 5th gear and other previous race drivers give their say on the Nissan 370Z, I like Chris, but it seems to me that his love for the GT86 makes him blind and biased... As love often do.
So, as someone with admittedly a huge Porsche bias I got out of the FR-S yesterday with a bigger grin than I had from the Carrera 2S. There's just something magical about being able to use all of the car all of the time that the modern Porsches just don't have. And the recent 911s feel fat.
2damaxmr2 We'll see brah! Everything everyone used to knock the mustang is GONE and it even comes with a 4 banger now! I'm telling you. Look for a 1000hp 4cyl mustang by the end of 2016 or sooner!!
Chris Ramsey Hey at least I didn't come here with "gay dick" and "Fart" jokes. XD Also they're bringing back the SVO...it's under the guise of "ecoboost" but it's been done before. lol
I have some friends who bought a 700hp 2003 mustang cobra in the 30k range. 700hp! sure its not in the same light/nimble category as these but it'll put just as big of a smile on your face as any of em. I guess its not really an option if you're outside north america but I'd definitely have to think about it.
![[Full] 4 ต่อ 4 Celebrity EP.920 | 3 พ.ย. 67 | one31](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KwiW2M_kAg4/mqdefault.jpg)
I think Clarkson said it the best, you can't measure the GT86 in numbers but you measure it in smiles.
Absolutely. To suggest big power is required in order for a car to "count" as a sports car is to suggest that the Mx5 isn't a sports car, which doesn't make sense at all if you consider that SCCA Spec Miata is the single largest class in motorsport today. It simply doesn't make sense. Like the car or not, it looks to me like the new 240x.
Hunter Thornquist Well, for Chris Harris the Miata is not a sports car, check out his review. i'm pissed because he loves the GT86 while shits on the Miata for being to slow etc...
Smiles fade when the emotion of new fades. This was a newer car in 2012 and now its just a slow old POS. The Z kills it in every way...
Mask Man The Z kills it in speed. Chassis, suspension, steering, balance, comfort, weight, pedal feel, fun. The 86 is still better in those areas.
No the Z doesn't kill it in every way. Did you not watch the video?
I've lost count of how many times I've watched this. Harris is the best of his generation with work like this.
Stumbled upon this gem after seeing nearly every other modern GR86, 370Z, and family owns a 2006 Boxster S already. These comparisons never get old and little gems like this from 10 years ago really impact my thoughts especially on the 370Z today.
Can't emphasize enough
And I've watched it again today 😁
Agreed. I watch it a couple of times a year, then go drive the 86 😅
Same here..... I have come to look at it differently. I would go for the z because you can fix its handling issues. It's going to be a lot more expensive and difficult to make the BRZ faster. The Porsche is also going to be a headache to keep maintained.
I have own three of them the pass. The 370z is fast but heavy when cornering. The 86/frs/brz slow but fast when cornering. The Cayman S fast straight and cornering but it double the price.
Btw I sold them so I could buy a GTR Nismo in Forza Motorsport 7.
HAHAHHAHAHHA priceless! 🤣
I have a 370Z sport coupe with Hotchkis sways and Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires and the car handles its weight very well around corners. I can generate more than 1 g in lateral and longitudinal acceleration and still maintain good control.
Not gonna lie, they had us in the first half
I like the Nissan
Best comparative review I've seen on this car. He truly understands the reasoning behind the existence of the 86/BRZ.
My previous cars mostly had over 400hp. Over 500hp in some cars. I've owned MKIV Supra Turbo with T-78 turbo, Evo 8 with 2.3 stroker, GT35R, and meth injection, STi with GT30R, 350Z with built block and APS TT, IS300 with GTE swap, FD RX-7 with LS6 swap, etc... Damn, I can't even remember all of the cars. All cars were highly modified thoroughly(engine, suspension, hardened mounts and bushings galore, etc.).
Then I drove a GT86... and I'm hooked so much that I am buying one!! Yes, the power is low. In fact, it's been a while since I drove a car with an usable first gear. Hahaha. But the driving position, the feedback you get, and the way the car responds to your inputs... all together create an amazing driving experience.
I was one of those who kept criticizing 86 for the lack of power continuously since its debut. I hated Toyota/Subaru for not producing a TRD/STi version of this car as I thought I needed 300HP at the very least. But after one drive, I get it. This car is all about the driving experience. It is never about posting the fastest lap times or winning drag races. If you want to compete with other cars, look elsewhere.
If I really feel the need to increase the power, there are plenty of aftermarket options available. I think adding a supercharger is a great way to add power to these cars as it keeps the throttle response unlike turbos. Even if I wanted to add more power, I do not think I would want anything more than 300HP, as I do think that too much power will actually ruin the experience.
If you haven't driven one, go try it. Although you might not feel that this is not the right car for you, I guarantee that you will enjoy the experience if you are a true car enthusiast.
SolitudeMG Thanks mate, this is exactly what I needed to hear. Its back on my 'serious contenders' list.
rollintroll You're welcome. I actually bought a BRZ two weeks ago and I'm am enjoying it very much. It really is great fun to drive. Yes, it is not fast by any means but it feels like the car really talks to me and that it is I who is doing all the work, not the car. Plus, the stock tires have little grip so it's really easy to slide it around, which is also good fun. I'm eventually planning to add a SC but at the moment, I am really enjoying the car as it came from the factory.
SolitudeMG I see the point of a gt86/brz but I think people are just pretending the ae86 is back. Personally I would go for the 370z and then if I feel like it go for a suspension, spring, brakes, tyres ecc rather than putting my hands on the engine. It s good to have a good driving experience but in my opinion for 30.000€ it's too expensive.
Carlo Gigante I've never driven a 370Z but owned a 350Z with Nismo suspension, Stoptech BBK, APS TT, and built engine. Yes, it's faster in a straight line and has a nicer interior, but it also does not have the steering feel and balance of 86/BRZ. Make no mistake. 86/BRZ is slow in a straight line. There is no denying that.
However, well balanced chassis and great feedback is not something that can be had by adding modifications. Yes, it can be done. But it is difficult and you might still never be able to get good feedback from the car about what it is doing. Lastly, 370Z is far heavier than 86/BRZ. By the time you make 370Z as light as 86/BRZ, it will no longer have the nicer interior than 86/BRZ, if it is even possible to lose that much weight and still be driven on the streets.
I know it is really hard to ignore the "200HP" as family sedans these days have far more than that. Hell, my daily driver is more than 1 full second faster than my BRZ to 100kph. However, adding power is the easiest part of modifying a car. Setting up a balanced chassis? It is hard. Making the car give good driver feedback? Nearly impossible with a car that did not come like that from the factory.
It took me 3 years to overlook the power figures and give this car a chance. Once I did, I fell in love in an instance. I drove cars that had more than 400 to the wheels in the past, and I still got hooked on 86/BRZ. Try it. Like I have mentioned, it might not be the right car for you, but I guarantee you that you will enjoy the test drive if you truly are a motoring enthusiast.
Carlo Gigante but that engine is gruff and not very pleasing in its characteristics. No money can change its design
"370z vs 86 is like comparing a chainsaw to hedge clippers they both get the job done, but one will do it much faster, the other will do it slower but with more finesse." - some dude (or girl) on a 370z vs 86. I think they got it about right.
@Joseph C. yeah but how long is a piece of string when you start modifying things?
@Joseph C. as a 370Z owner, I would say no it won’t, frs has a more superior chassis. A set of coilovers can improve the shortcomings of the z but the chassis is still a bit heavy and it just doesn’t do it that well on the track. Also, 370Z lack of a proper differential from factory.
@Joseph C. I agree, frs is too slow on street but fun on track. 370Z is fast on street but need some proper mods to address the shortcomings of the car. I would say 370Z at least needs suspension mods, a proper differential and an oil cooler to be excel on the track
Misses the point of the review, you can then upgrade the GT86 suspension and.....
Toyota must have done something right to have all these people hating on the car they designed. Why do you guys come on here to hate for?
It's a shame you have haters like the ones in the comment section. True car enthusiasts appreciate every car and understand every car serves a purpose. Every car's essence precedes its existence for that very reason. It's a shame some people are narrow-minded and can't understand what Toyota was trying to accomplish with this car. And it's a shame you can't appreciate it either.
I don't go around hating on cars I don't like. I understand, however, that they serve a purpose. Speed is not everything. Why can't some people understand that?
Cheers, everyone.
I don't know anyone who hates the GT86 / BRZ / FR-S. It is awesome that a company produced a front mid-engine rear wheel drive car in that price range. I would take a 370z over it personally, but I'm not on a budget and I don't like drifting.
I think it's a good car with an identity crisis. It just felt too hard to be a DD for me and it seems too slow to be a good dedicated track car. It just doesn't fit anywhere for me in the spectrum of cars.
Hairless Cars It's a car you have, next to your supra mk3.
Juan Cuara Well said sir, I dont understand why fellow driving enthusiasts, like to say bad things about peoples personal cars, just because its not there particular taste. Ive always put myself in there shoes, every car guy loves their car and believe its special, so who am I to say its not!!
+Juan Cuara You, my friend, are some bizarre, existential, brilliance. Well said. "every car's essensce precedes its existence." The makers of those early autos are rolling in there graves in a macabre dance of the day of the dead at that jest. Well said, well said. Cheers to you, sir.
There is not nearly enough posts from people like yourself who have something to say. So often I feel like I'm alone in this world filled with petty bickering.
-future cannonballrun record holder.
I guess as an Initial D fan, I completely get the idea of the 86.
Same
The fact that this is takumi's future car
I’ve probably watched this video 4 times in the last 8 years. A classic, and it goes beyond the subject of these 3 cars.
A classic Chris Harris video, no over produced cinematography or shenanigans. Just straight up driving the cars and telling us what we need to know! 👍
"The World needs cheap rear-wheel drive cars!!! "Thumbs up!
The BRZ/FRS/gt86 is amazing. I freaking love it. Mine modified a bit and it's sooooooo much better than stock. You can't buy this car without adding headers and a tune. I've always thought it's fast enough, but besides that it just feels so fkn good when you're driving.
If you hate on it over speed, seriously, you're stupid. It gets stupid quick with some mods, and if you add a turbo (or fi), well, you can't complain about speed anymore.
I've had mine for over 2 years. I work from home so no work miles. I have about 48k miles in 2 years and 19 days give or take a day......I spend my lunch breaks to go get a coffee then take the back roads home. That's how fun this car is.
Oh and if you like or love attention...buy this car, out some 18s and coil overs on and get rdy to be sued for broken necks lol
I really, really wanted a 370Z, I wanted to love it but after driving one I can't do it. They're a great car for people after that thing but it was more a GT than I expected. I sold my MX-5 NB and got an 86 and so far it's great. My Dad bought a Cayman GT4 and it's a phenomenal car, wonderful to drive on road and track - but it's in another league when it comes to running costs. I don't need P-Zeros or worry about scraping carbon fibre with the 86. Sure it's not perfect but it's a great little thing.
A 2006 used cayman S in Australia costs 2X as much as a GT86.
metcard That it does. plus hugemongous servicing costs.
metcard Yep, this is why I bought an 86! (well, I've moved onto my second now [in GTS spec])
***** thats the best choice. congrats ( from a porsche-fanboy) ! The costs to maintain a porsche are way too much. If you wanna keep it nice and clean and get alle the Porsche Services you are gonna bleed. Question: Is the GT86 really THAT underpowered as everybody is whining ? i can't believe that
Popo popopopo , nah mate. They're not underpowered. Sure, an extra 50kw would be great, but they're fine the way they are. If you keep it above 5000 RPM they're quick, and due to their excellent handling, you can maintain a lot of speed in the corners. Great cars!
+Mitchell Denham i agree not underpowered at all, i find my BRZ very torquey at lower rpms too, i have lost many sportscars in my rear view mirror up hills.
Who is here after Chris dropped his review of the GR86 on February 4, 2024?
I’ve watched this video hundreds of times through the years and seeing Harris in 2024 still gives me chills. Keep driving, keep shifting friends.
Five year Toyota warranty!!! Toyota must love you Brits. Its three years in Canada. Not that the GT86 is even available here.
Robert Drake I have the subaru brz and it comes with a 6 year warranty
3 years in Australia also :(
Bought a BRZ yesterday, for $1000.00 extra, I got a 100K bumper to bumper (7 year) warranty. U.S.A.! lol ;)
Ben R worth it
Only downside is you have to deal with Toyota UK to take advantage of it..
Chris did a great job summarizing the chassis balance and the way the rear end moves around.
You'll always end up chasing a bit of wiggle in corners because it's so damn fun.
I’ve had a Cayman for 8 years and an GT86 for 9 months. The Caymans’ never gone wrong and has always been brilliant but pretty its much perfect as is. The GT86 is a total blast and is cheap to modify which kinda makes it more rewarding to own.
thanks Chris. Thoughtful and well presented analysis. I am always trying to tell the Holden V8 aficianados (here in Australia) that everything doesn't depend on 0-100 time and huge power oversteer. Cars like the Toyota 86 and Mazda MX5 are wonderfully rewarding cars even with their modest power
I love both the 86 and the 370z. Both are great cars created for different segments. If a person chooses an 86, it is because he/she falls into the segment the 86 was designed for. Likewise, if you prefer the 370z, then you are in the segment the 370z was designed for. It is really that simple. Enjoy the car for what it was designed for. If every car can be lined up and a single best car chosen, we will end up with 1 model, much like the Model T. God forbid that.
The GT86 is one of the most epic cars ever made, is new... but with the fun of the 80´s
Well balanced review. Just had a test drive in an 86 today, considered buying a used Cayman S a while back, never thought about the Nissan because it looks like a shoe. The thing about the 86 is that it is more fun, more of the time. In the Cayman you have to go 60-90 to make you smile. In the Toyota you need to approach a roundabout at 30. Throw in that new car smell with low running costs and it's got me. Can't wait to drive everywhere at 1000 smiles per hour
Chris Harris is breaking into a new way to compare cars. He delivers wanted and needed information to consumers and discusses the cars qualities on an sublime level.
I recently bought 2011 Z and disagree with a lot of the comments Chris makes here. To be honest the steering isn't the worlds best, but it's not bad either, particularly seeing though 9 out of 10 people will not push beyond this mythical "8/10ths" thing he keeps chirping on about, unless you track it which is a different story altogether. My last car was a Megane RS250 and that knows a fair few things about going round corners being the fastest FWD car round the ring, F1 tech in the suspension etc, and honestly, now I would rather have a car that looks amazing, makes a good noise that you can occasionally smoke someone at the lights in. The whole interior thing as well, that is down to choice and what you ask for/look for... Mine for example has leather and alcantara seats, stitched leather, Sat Nav/DVD player, the GT86 by comparison looks like came out of a cereal box.
Think my point is, yes the GT86 looks fun but why is it neccessary, on public roads to push so hard that the Z becomes not as good as the other 2!? I would happily have a used Cayman,great car, but being 5 years older than mine with 50K more miles for the same money... It's an easy choice. Bit of a biased, nonsense review if you ask me.
I bought a red 86 this weekend, time to have some fun haha
moldyrefrigerator lucky you man! ;D
+moldyrefrigerator You posted this 2 months ago, how would you rate it now after driving it for a while ?
It's a blast. And really small, like small to the point where you can lose it in a parking lot because average cars just completely cover it. I don't think its underpowered, I mean yeah if you've coming from an STi you won't think its quick..but for me 200hp is the most hp car I've owned and this car is light as fuck so that works in it's favor more than a normal car with 200hp. The 0-60 is the same time as the Focus ST, which is also a really small car, and that weighs like 500lbs more and has a turbo so this car isn't that bad. It could use 30-50hp more and it'd be perfect. I've already got a ticket in it, 82 mph in a 55mph, getting the red version didnt help..But the driving is great, I can't get enough I've already put 4,000 miles on it, and planning to take it to Virginia International Raceway next month to get this speeding out of my system lol. Also, it gets really good gas mileage even when you beat on it. I'm getting 28mpg and I haven't been babying it. I don't have a winter car either so its just the FRS 365. Should be fun in the snow! Hoping to change the tires and get an exhaust in the next couple months.
nice, thanks
+moldyrefrigerator That's the thing! I love mine but i just need A LITTLE more. I already have a catback and i plan on going with some headers and a tune and i should be good to go. Plan on doing a little sound deadening and an upgraded stereo and i should be set to go till i have kids!
love this video. ive owned an 86 for almost 2 years now and i love it. my next car? used cayman.
The 86 is an incredible car, I also enjoy owning one.
I had a 06 Boxster S before switching to a BRZ and I wouldn't go back. Don't bother with the Cayman, you already have the better car ;) You cant beat the practicality + fun factor of an 86.
aaah this is interesting treminaor! Eventually i will see the 86 so If i was to move on to another sports car which has more power than the 86 what would you recommend?
If you love the 86 enough you could always throw a supercharger in it, there's plenty of research and choices for that available online. But for choosing a better car it really depends on if you want 4 seats and cargo space like you have with the 86 if you're okay with a 2 seat golf club mobile like a boxster/cayman.
Also the reliablity of an 86 vs other sports cars is nearly unbeatable. You have to buy old to get an affordable luxury sports car and by that time they are high miles and out of pocket service. My 06 Boxster S only had 30k miles on it when I bought it and after 15k miles in a year I'd already spent around $3,000usd on repairs and maintenance. I sold it just recently for $25k and bought a 2016 BRZ off the lot for $27k.
I have an 86, and it is brilliant fun.
It'll do skids without trying. Yes it's not quick and the interior is a tad rattly but I don't care, I love it. I make any excuse to go drive it.
Hey mate, mind if I ask, do you think it can hold a second gear powerslide?! Say on a typical roundabout for eg.
@@UTubeSL yeah. Not that I'd know like..
@@mrb6094 haha nice 😄 I should have asked - is that even in the dry? Thanks for the reply!
@@UTubeSL I've seen people sliding them around fairly easily in the dry. I'm not one for doing that though, that's what rain is for.
@@mrb6094yeah guess tyre wear is more of an issue in the dry. Thank you gor the info - appreciate it!
Thanks Chris! Not sure how many times I watched this video but after scouring western Canada for a 2006ish Cayman vs an FRS (GT86 in Canada) I did one better and happened upon a used 2013 FRS with the TRD kit and a carbon hood parked on a dealer lot with only 13,000km. In Canada the TRD versions in 2015/2016 run up to $31K Canadian but if you do your homework you can find one like mine that is not even broken in with the balance of the warranty for @$20,000. Compared to 10 year old Caymans with 100,000km for $30-40,000 (even lovely mint ones have 50-60,000km) there was no better bargain than jumping into my FRS in early November, throwing on some Michelin Xice 3's and some weight in the trunk and driving it all winter!! Why? Because if I had a lovely blue Cayman I would be like most Porsche owners and park it, too worried about my paint chips and windscreens that cost $1000's ... my buddy with a 911 4s (cabrio - no he's not a hair dresser) wishes he drove his car like I drive mine!!
Im not sure whos gonna see this on an 8 year old video, but if anybodys looking to get one of these cars as a daily driver whether new or used you also have to think of this. Youre not just paying for the car, you still have to pay for insurance, fuel and other maintenance items. For insurance in toronto i was quoted $3400 a year for a 2014 frs, for a 2014 370z i was quoted $4375 a year because nissan Z cars are considered high risk vehicles, and on a 2014 cayman i was surprisingly quoted $3100 a year. But parts are more expensive on the porsche than the toyota or nissan and fuel economy is important on a daily driver, and the frs has the best fuel economy out of all 3, and it has the most storage space. so in my opinion the frs would be the best daily driver. plus youll get in less trouble with it too
I'm in Alberta and I have a FRS for 6 year now. I have a insurante and I paid 1100 dollars for the FRS and a Honda CRV (The FRS is a full cover)
I don't know if depends of the province, drive history or age of the driver.
This is why the 86 is brilliant. Larger tires don't always mean they're better for the car. I think recently the fascination of a wider wheel and tire has been more for aesthetic interest than actual tactical performance. The R&D at toyota and subaru have that car set up to put down a remarkable near- 1 lateral G on 215/45-17's while keeping that amount of drivability.
I’m in love with my cayman s. Head over heels. It’s the perfect 2 seater for the money. By a large margin imo.
man you impress me every time. i love your reviews & tests, honest point of views excellent driving skills, think outside the box. whenever i'm looking for a review first thing i type is "Chris Harris", thumbs Up keep them coming !
370z is a awesome car hands down i own a 2013 sport it will hug the road and feels planted as well as i have no prob drifting with control
is that because your 100% is equal to Chris Harris' 80%... ?
i took a 370 z Nismo for a drive today (2019 version) and it was an incredible drive It reminded me of a track car like a 911 GT2 and sounded like a Viper. Great car
@Anton Zuykov i find the GT very underwhelming!
@@patrickmurphy5842 take one out to the canyons or drive a boosted one and you will change your mind. A supercharged 86 supposedly has a better power to weight ratio than a 911 turbo... or so i hear, I love my 86. It could definitely use alot more hp in a straight line though. I only really notice when I have passengers or I race someone in a straight line.
@@Dusijejdjjd the mx5 is more fun and enjoyable than the gt86
I drive one of those as a Subaru BRZ ... and loved it since the first day.. nice looking .. cheap on gasoline.. fast enough and my god being with it on a highway is a delightful experience
My 2013 10 Series GT86 has the following:
18x8.75 +33 wheels
235/40R18 Hankook RS4's
TRD coil springs
Whiteline camber bolts
Grimspeed shock tower brace
Berk dual muffler delete exhaust
Perrin solid transmission mount
Sound tube delete
Racesceng billet cam plate covers
And occasionally a Sparco Sprint race seat
All of this makes one of the grippiest and enjoyable track cars/daily drivers I've ever had, and I've had and have lots of cars...
I like the food comparison of the 370z as a big plate of ok tasting food whereas the FR-S is a small plate of very tasty food. I prefer a small plate of very tasty food.
+mrpmj00
Like a a Big Mac with fries and a plate of 5 pieces of great sushi
i like both
Kinda like the small plate of tasty food keeps you coming back for more and the big plate just fills you up and makes you content.
I'm a 🐖 I like lots of food, tasty or otherwise.
I had a 370 z with intake and exhaust upgrades, volks with grippy tires, and stiffer sway bars and coilovers. For some reason my new stock BRZ tS is putting more smiles on my face 😁😁😁 than the Z. I just feel more alive driving it. Yes the BRZ doesn’t have the punch the Z has on the straights but I still think the BRZ is more fun to drive!
This is a better comparison. I don't think anyone buys a base Z unless they want to mod it. The NISMO is more fun stock, but it's a different price level too.
Price wise, the GT86 is more comparable to a Miata.
The GT86 is lots of fun with somewhat low power,
The 350Z is a lot less fun with a lot more power
The Cayman is 80% the fun of the GT86 and 80% the power of the 350Z, the best of both worlds.
but the cayman costs even 2nd hand little bit more than a fabric new gt86 and as well you get an 86 for 15k with not that much kilometers on the tachometer
Chris Harris' best video, ever! I tested a used Cayman and a new 86, and bought the 86 :D
Nuno Bandeira still have your 86? Looking at one...
This is my favorite Chris Harris video of all time. Still watching it after like 10 years
Chris Harris is an amazing host, great work, love hearing your reviews. I wonder why he didn't compare the FRS to the Honda S2000 as well. Amazing handling, RWD, light, affordable, great driver input...
Id like to see the next z to be more like the 300zx and id like to see a cheaper rwd coupe come back (silvia revive?)
A 16k Cayman will quickly become a 35-40k car if you want to keep it on the road....
@Elliot Rodger Don't get me wrong I love porsches but when i looked into buying one Boxer S (with the flat 6 engine) I quickly changed my mind. Endless problems down the road especially because they hardly are driven easy (lower end models even more). These are the type of cars one should buy new or almost new and look after them. No daydreaming ecc cuz your gonna end up with a time bomb.
@Elliot Rodger Good for you! I'd rather go for a gt86 test car or a new one at the right price since in italy the 370z has to pay a whopping €2000 a year in taxes (not including insurance ecc). Plus I'll be comforted by Toyota's 5 year warranty and mild depreciation. Good luck and have fun!
That’s so not true I hav a 987 Boxster a owner it for 6 months and yes there is a coolant leak with 3 pipes to be changed
That costed me 760£
Nth close to what u said
At $16,000 all it takes is one catastrophic engine failure and you're already at 30 grand. All it would take is an average of $3,000 a year for a few years to get to that 30 Grant. But shouldn't be hard to do in any high mileage German vehicle. Clutch replacement transmission issue.
I did a lot of reading before I bought my FR-s two months ago. I do a 122 mile round trip commute on kentucky back roads every day that are very much like the roads in this test, except smoother and more corn and Tobacco. The way he breaks loose on corners and little hills is exactly what I experience every single day. I've done' some amazing completely neutral drifts. I look, forward to driving to work every morning. No deer strikes yet...
Also the reason why that car slips so easily is because it has the same tires that go on the prius. Pretty sure if you put fiesta wheels on a mustang it'd be a similar deal. Aside this was a great review! Love the fact that Harris put the Cayman into the spotlight. Changes your perspective on the whole situation.
*****
Oh wow. Guess I'll look at your videos and see how much better your car is. :/
awww you described it so nicely! i miss that feeling in my old '85 toyota corolla gts. I've been looking at the new toyota, and thank you for focusing on how enjoyable it is to drive!
Great video.
I feel the GT86 is like a new-born version of the good old japanese fun cars from the 85-90s like a CRX or, more spot on an AE86 of course.
Cheap, Reliable, insurable and maintainable fun :D
You might buy the used Cayman but then the cost to insure, maintain etc... is definitely not the same.
It is except all the new sports cars come with
at least 300hp....
@@friskmall6327 straight line speed is for fast cars. Corners are for fast drivers.
You can always tell a US poster from their obsession with skidpan and 1/4 mile figures.
That's why no US cars will ever win in F1 or WRC ......
You mean like the Ford Fiesta? :P
@@nikoyochum6974 The Fiesta and Focus are "technically" German engineered if I'm not mistaken.
@@nikoyochum6974 + now only sell in europe/ for Europe. May sell to other places but not the us
"get back to a place where we are enjoying performance because of its nature, and not because of its quantity" -Chris "swag daddy" Harris
I've had my GT86 for going on 2 years now and it's my daily driver.
Mine is a late 2013 car so is now over 10 years old. I bought it as one of the cheapest in the country at the time - clean titled but had clearly experienced a neglectful owner in the recent past and had almost 100k on the clock when I got it with some questionable roadman geared modifications that have since been undone. Before him though it had been well looked after going on receipts.
I've racked up about 10k in it and seen a fair amount of admittedly expensive recommissioning that I'll never see back money-wise. Things like an entirely new gearbox, exhaust and the replacement of just about every common wear component because as I say the previous owner ragged it.
That said, it has never missed a beat. I love it to bits and every time I drive it, seamlessly blends being a reasonably comfortable car capable of munching up miles for reasonable fuel bills in the week, with the ability to be just about the most enjoyable experience behind a steering wheel I've ever had at weekends. I often find myself allowing extra journey time at weekends outside of my drives for driving's sake to take roads like the one Chris is on in the video. It's fantastic and leaves me looking like a Cheshire cat.
I think it is all well and good to compare the car to a 370 or a Cayman as realistically those are the close comparisons. But in the real world, it was/is competing with hot hatches and the likes of the Audi TT and Mazda MX5 more than anything else.
The Scion Fr-s is simply the best all around sports car there is...period! the amount of engineering that went in to making this car and what you get, is simply amazing -- this car will be a future classic and now especially after Scion brand is no longer -- the Scion Fr-s will now be even more sought after.
Don't feel insulted or anything about this, but if you want to talk about the best all round sports car, I'm assuming you are talking about specifications as you say it is well engineered. I feel that the Alfa Romeo 4C is an exemplary sports car that is clever, fast enough (in the same way The gt86 is) stylish and handles well. If you also factor in price, the GT86 is better, but other than price, the 4C is far better
You do know the 4c is way more right? So it can be all around because of the price. If the 86 was 20k more it would be faster and more refined.
great point -- :)
If the 4C had a manual gearbox, the ability to turn off the traction control, and a physical gauge cluster, it would have been at the top of my list for my 2nd car.
The 370z chris tests in this video does not have sport package! Get it with a sport pack and it adds a more taught suspension, bigger brakes, tires, and an LSD!
@PastIconoclast I only paid about $3K more for the 370Z sport coupe that I got and I thought it was well worth the price for what I got. It also has a nice aero package, upgraded Bose sound system and synchro rev match on the 6-speed manual transmission. The 370Z sport version is more narrowly focused as a pure driver's car, something that I specifically wanted.
The base and sport have the same suspension..... and the vlsd on the z is a joke....
I enjoyed this video and most of Chris Harris videos, but I wouldn't take his verdict too close to heart. If you know anything about Harris you know that he isn't having fun unless he can throw(drift) a car around a road like a ragdoll. OFF COURSE he loves the Toyota, it was built to be a modern AE86 Trueno.
The 370Z like its big brother GTR can be fitted for drifting but it's built for and much more suited to grip driving. You get way more car than the Toyota and mine is very fun to drive and can be scary fast. And its sexy, especially with the added NISMO exhaust. The Porsche is a Porsche and you WILL pay for it one way or another.
This video made me respect Chris Harris. The guy knows a real driving car.
I just bought an 86 after 3 years of hesitation. This car is a blast!!
Excellent, the two cars I've been considering and a great tester, it's got to be the 86.
I upgraded from a 1.2 clio to an 86. Fast enough for me 😂
Literally doing the exact same upgrade this month, hope you're still enjoying your 86!
put a supercharger, turbo exhaust, and an upgraded cooling system on a 2014 frs for 6 grand at most to make it the best budget sports car (you can get a barely used 2014 for 20 grand)
Supercharger with turbo exhaust???? My guy I can tell you know nothing about cars lmao.
@@miguelfragoso7023 I think he means sc/turbo, exhaust
2006 guards red cayman S owner, just came across this video. not once have I regretted my purchase, and honestly the only things I can possibly consider trading it up for is a newer carerra S or a used audi r8. It simply spanks everything else within 40 or 50 grand.
I like how this guy drives and review. he's intense and having a blast. reviews should always be fun. this is the best review of the little FRS.
I love Chris Harris but in this case I'm going to call him out. Total hypocrisy! How can you go on about how a car makes you "feel" and how great the BRZ/GT86 is right after he completely denounced the MX5/Miata?
I just switched from a stock 2003 Miata to a Brz. The Miata is shit stock, yes it’s fun and flickable but body roll is tremendous and understeer the Brz is a much more focused sports car.
The Porsche looks like the bargain there until you consider running costs of a 10 year old, 70k miles performance car... No thanks.
Personally, I also think that big HP figures on the public road is not really the way to go. Legally in most countries the most you'll ever be able to do is 70mph, and if your car can do that in 4ish seconds, where's the fun? These are not designed to be track cars...
I recently had to have my car repaired, and wringing the neck of the little 1.2 they gave me while I waited was a lot more fun than I remembered. It went nowhere fast, but put a massive grin on my face. A car that makes you work a bit for your performance is surely where the fun is on the road?
Out of these 3, the one I'm most excited about is hands down the GT86. I'd love to have one.
Ken R You wanna go!!!!!!!
michael CRACKA yep ill slap you so hard your lips will make it to the hospital before you.
lol, the nurse is like wtf?
I disagree with you on your 370Z review, but I do agree with your driving.
This is the first time I have seen this video on February 10th 2024, I absolutely love the 86, and I have loved it for the past 10 years when I saw one in real life and instantly fell in love, it literally is the reason why I love cars, but Chris just put it together SO well. He completely understands motoring, cars, driving, the 86, the Z, the Cayman, wow man.
I don't know how I missed this masterpiece of a video for so long, but this perfectly reflects my view of the car world: The 86 and the Cayman are the best things out there.
Ever since I watched this video a decade ago I really wanted an 86, finally after keep buying sedans like the manual is250 and the manual is300 finally pulled the trigger on a 2019 86 TRD and man it’s in a different class. The driving position to the steering feel to the suspension it’s just an amazing experience. Don’t really give a damn about the 0-60 cause I only enjoy to Cary speed through the corners on tight back roads!
I still don't care about his statements, i would still buy the fairlady 370Z my dream car
thats because you dont care about the feeling of driving. you care about the feeling of when your friends look at you in that car.
It's the feeling you actually get from the particular power from the ride man since Toyota 86 delivers 200 horsepower not my type still love the car though but my type and choice is the 370z !
I used to own a modded 370. It just feels heavy when turning. The way it steers is kinda sloppy compared to BRZ. My new BRZ is more fun stock. Not as punchy on the straights but I guess more power will ruin the perfect balance of the car. Toyota engineer explained it something like a triangle with equal lengths and angles
love this video. I laugh at people who tell me to trade in my FRS for a 370z. I've driven one and its sloppy at 10/10ths just like chris says.
Issue here is most of the buyers (and drivers without track training) can't drive very consistently at 10/10. It's either 6/10 or 15/10...or some imbalance thereof. And that's the part that makes the Toyota 86 so difficult for most people to grasp in reason of existence. It's truly wonderful at anywhere between the range and begs the driver to challenge 10/10 for those who love to be there.
I am a 370Z owner and I 100% agree with you
Recently test drove a 370z and tbh I can't wrap my head around on many things you said in this video. Since i've watched this video when it came out and also looked at the things you said here in particular I don't really understand what you mean. The engine doesn't get weezy at all and for sure not above 5k rpm, the steering definitely isn't the best but it's not the worst either, and well the only thing I can understand in some way is the gear-shift as it does get a bit "restrictive" when shifting fast (not rubbery though). And the seating position in this video can't be any more odd. The 370z has one of the best seats and one of the best seating positions for me of almost all sports cars i've driven so far. And the 8/10 hm not too sure as I was happily sliding when I was asking for it and going through corners rather stable when I didn't want to go all out. I haven't driven a GT86 nor a BRZ yet since they're quite hard to test drive here but when I get the opportunity I'll compare the two even more closely :) The thiong I can say is that you should test drive all the cars first before copying an opinion from someone else simply because in the end it's just an opinion ;) Cheers guys.
It depends on the trim level, in all honesty. It was never mentioned which version of the 370z he was driving. There's the base, sport, touring and Nismo. Base is all around an unpleasant experience if you push it, Sport and Nismo are where it's at and I really don't understand the reason why the touring model even exists now that you can get Sport Tech and Nismo Tech.
MrWholetrain00 Exactly right - hell, anyone who has seen a 370Z dyno chart knows it makes power across the entire range and continues making more and more power all the way to redline. There's a reason the Fast and the Furious movies use 370Zs a lot - especially in #3 (Tokyo Drift).
If you've ever owned a DC2 type r, you know what he's talking about with the toyota. It's hasn't got the most powerful engine but it is hugely exciting. Paired with an amazing chassis, it's just so much fun to blast around in. Iv owned much more powerful cars since but the DC2 is still my favourite car I've owned.
I loved my GT86, but after about 18 months the lack of power was too annoying to deal with. So, I bought a 370Z, installed a catback, coil-overs and CA intake. An aggressive alignment makes it steer much quicker. It's much better than stock now. And plenty fast for me!
I think you would like the Z much more if you had tested one equipped with the Sport pack. The wider tires and better brakes help bring the experience to life by allowing you to wring more out of the car (i.e. those last 2/10's). Also a good exhaust gets rid of that Dyson-esq tone, and a nice set of sway bars will really subdue the jiggling in the corners.
I have a 2019 370Z sport coupe 6M and had a set of stiffer Hotchkis sway bars installed and a set of Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires. They helped make an already great handling car even better handling.
Basically, but the 370z then address all of its flaws?
Look at this video at 7:10. No wonder the Z falls apart above 8/10ths. It's on bald ass rear tires! Hardly a fair assessment, any car will handle like ass with no rear grip. A Z on good tires is no GT86 but they are pretty fun nonetheless, with good high speed stability and a rear end that grips and slips predictably in the slower stuff. Stock suspension and tires make the balance a little understeery but that's easier to fix than the GT86's power deficit.
Hardly bald!
Richard Hurr
Dude there's next to no tread on the tires. It's well below what would pass an inspection in the US at least.
Are you serious. The US doesn't even have an MOT like in the UK.
There's 4 deep grooves in the middle of the tyre and obviously more than the legal 1.6mm minimum in the UK on the inner and outer tyre.
As a 370Z owner, I can see where Chris is coming from on his criticisms but, it's not as bad as he makes it out to be. The car is fine as a daily driver and, an awful lot of fun for 1/2 the price of a Cayman S ...It's not a Porsche Chris.
Yeah my 350z only has 300hp, and its heavy... but I guess the power to weight ratio is still better than the gt86 if I'm gapping it in a straight line. My Z handles and grips just fine with my wide Nitto tires. Also my Z makes horny sounds when in drifting the intersection. I'll keep my Z lol
I don't know if I agree having test drove the GT86 before and the 370Z yesterday. I tested it on a mixture of country roads and a dual carriage way and it just had me smiling, thrilled excited and loving life (but feeling close to death)! The engine sounded fantastic, the auto rev matching downshifts performed well, everything felt good. However I didn't really get to test it properly on country roads as i'd like due to traffic. I did love driving the GT86 but only got to drive it on a dual carriage way so this slippy exciting handling didn't really come into play. I liked the sound of it, the nimble feel - it didn't feel too big and clumsy. It felt like you were going faster than you are but there's part of the problem. At the lights trying to do a quick 0-60 I could barely pull away from people driving non-sports cars. It just felt underwhelming. I really can't believe they haven't brought out a turbo version of this car but I guess expensive aftermarket options are available. In terms of looks for me, the porsche is much more beautiful and iconic than all of them.
I still watch old videos with nostalgia. My GT86 is 10 years old, and has no bore scoring ...
Its a shame he's testing a base Z with the smaller wheels and smaller brakes with no SRM.
well anything more then the base z will drive the price up to uncomparable levels the stock base basement 370z with no options cost 3k more then fully loaded gt86 granted its not the same car but his trying to compare car with similar price tag and only the cheapest z with nothing option comes close to the gt86 in pricing
"Nissan falls to pieces (when you push it hard)?"
Are you insane? The 370Z beats or keeps up with the best sports cars in the world on race tracks. You're simply wrong. And since when is 3300 pounds heavy? That's the same weight as a 2015 Corvette Stingray.
Autos389 www.motivemag.com/pub/feature/versus/Motive_Versus_Nissan_370Z_vs_Porsche_Cayman_S.shtml
Nissan 370Z vs Porsche Cayman S
"The Z's chassis responds more slowly but more fluidly than the Cayman -
it may be that quick applications of throttle, mainly during transitions
in which the suspension's still sorting itself out, can overwhelm the
stability computers. When I turn it off, I discover the Z's dirty
secret: Those controls shut the car down before it truly gets good, and
the harder the 370Z is pushed, the better it gets.
Nissan engineers kept the car's weight distribution at 53/47 front to
rear, which doesn't seem ideal for a sports coupe. The theory is that
the car's dynamic weight distribution - the balance when the car's
accelerating out of a corner - becomes dead even as the load shifts. I
believe it. With stability control on vacation, the car dives into
corners without a hint of understeer and when I get back on the throttle
earlier, the rear hunkers down, grabs hold of the road, and pushes out
of the bend with tremendous grip. The transition between braking and
getting back on the gas delivers just the right amount of rotation.
Other than the seriously underpowered Miata, it's hard to think of
another front-engine car for normal-people money with this much balance.
It makes me wonder why Porsche went through all the effort of moving
the engine somewhere so hard to get at."
@@Autos389 I have a 370Z sport coupe and I drive it with the stability control off and found that it handles exceptionally well in powering through twisty corners, did that on a very fast drive on California's coastal US 1 and was amazed at how well it performed. After I put stiffer Hotchkis sways and Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires on the car it became an even better handling car.
"The Zed gets wheelie above 5000 RPM"
Huh? That's where the power builds like mad on a VQ37VHR.
don't think he said "wheelie" lol
Weezy
The VQ37VHR has a nearly flat torque curve from about 2K rpm to almost redline at 7500 rpm, thanks primarily to the VVEL intake valve timing technology. The corresponding horsepower curve is very linear over the whole rev range with maximum hp occurring close to the redline rpm. The Z was not designed to have a peaky engine that concentrates power over a specific rpm band. I had an old Porsche that was designed along the lines of an old-school race engine that was weak below 4300 rpm but exploded after 5k rpm. Highly tuned race engines like that can be demanding to drive on the street and require good concentration and alertness in order to be driven properly, so as to extract the most power from the engine.
Yeah that was kinda dumb. I don't think he knew how to drive it.
Why do people compare the Toyota 86 to cars with bigger more powerful engines and then complain that it's slower?
Please Chris.. We all desperately want to see more of this new vs used cars.
Oh and yes, I drove 500miles to trade in my 09 335i to 07 cayman s manual after watching this video. The car is sensational.
This dude test drove a base model 370z lmao. Not even got the sports package on it, the difference is huge, trust me I would know cause I own a 2017 370z Nismo. I would love for Chris to drive my Nismo and then give his opinions on it compared to the 86. Nismo brings in its in-house tuning and suspension from Yamaha, bigger brakes, upgraded aerodynamics, synchro rev match, bucket seats Alcantara and a lot more. If he drove that he would definitely have a change in opinion, I mean not only do I dust my two friends who have brz's and my one friend who has an FRS, but on the turns when we go backroading they can't keep up, I mean the Nismo brings in an insane track upgrade, I mean Nismo is a track company lmao they helped the skylines win all the races so it makes sense. However, I also wanted to mention how I felt a strong bias with Chris with the 86, as if Toyota had paid him and I'm seeing other people in the comments mention it too. Either way, don't use a base model z and compare it to the turning and racing feel when you could've at least got a sports package, grand touring, or even Nismo.
2014 Nismo w/ 22k miles here. Had it since May. Love of my early 20's!
"of more expertly crafted flavors" i am a Z owner and that hit me in my chest hard. (still a z lover)
A Z with 5k in suspension, brakes and tires will flip this test on its head. I have a G35, bought it for 6 grand, modded it and I love driving it like it’s free
@@nathanchildress5596 and a proper lsd for the z. Than you can put a turbo on the brz
I couldn't give a rats ass about other peoples opinion on the Z. I drive mine daily since new and have never regretted getting one.
What does "wheezy above 5k RPM" mean? That's almost smack in the middle of the 370z's powerband, so I'm kind of confused here.
because he doesn't know what the hell is he's talking about
this is an extremely biased video towards the gt86
It's the peak of the Torque power actually. You could always ask these folks. www.reddit.com/r/370z/comments/9lch3m/powerbandtorquerange_questions_etc/
The torque curve of the VQ37VHR is nearly flat across the rev range from about 2K rpm to almost its redline at 7500 rpm. There is a slight peak at about 5200 - 5400 rpm but the engine's power is essentially linear over the whole rev range. The VVEL intake valve timing was designed to produce as flat a torque curve as possible and maximize the area under the torque curve. At high rpms the intake valves open fully and the throttle body opens fully and so you do hear a lot more intake noise, which is kind of cool because it sounds like the roar of an awakening beast. The fact that there are separate throttle bodies and fairly straight-run intake tracts for each of the two banks of cylinders may be a contributing factor for this intake noise. Nissan might have use a more twisted arrangement for the intake tracts to help diminish sound but that would have restricted airflow and reduced performance.
Just love watching Chris Harris driving cars right on the edge, what a great driver and petrol head 👍
Chris doesn't talk much about torque here and I assume the Cayman is the winner in that. In the search for torque and lightness, what about the 86 vs Mx-5 ND, vs modded Fiat 124? I just sold my 1989 944t and only half regret it - 80's turbo lag and endless maintenance are real. This video is to me the best comparison and explanation of why Toyota actually have done something extraordinary.
Brz or 370z? I want speed/power , but the brz looks more fun to drive
There's no doubt that the 370z will absolutely destroy the BRZ..both drag racing and in turning. But the Brz is so much cheaper than the 370z and imo it looks nicer. Interiors are both kind of blah..i kind of like the Z interior better. Mileage is extremely better on the BRZ. And for the final con for both cars: Both RWD.
If you're looking for power stay FAR away from the BRZ/FRS. 370Z will absolutely demolish the BRZ in a straight line and probably the track. Don't listen to bias reviews, you need to testy drive both. I did and i am very happy with the 370z.
Just turbo the BRZ if power is a problem. The Z has a number of flaws, the only one the BRZ has is power
Deal Withit what are the flaws of a Z. i know there are but i just want to know what the dealbreaker is between a Scion and a 370Z
age, weight, small interior, no rear seats (may or may not matter) cost (buying and maintenence), power/stability at high RPM, gearbox.
if you're looking for a cheap fun drivers car that's going to be reliable and a DD I would personally go BRZ/86 NA.
headers, exhaust, intake, flex fuel and custom tune to run around 190whp all day everyday.
coil overs, lightweight wider wheels & sticky tyres and race pads.
I still would choose the zed. it's the car I choose with my heart
It's not how fast you drive, it's how you drive fast.
love that comment you made "people need to enjoy performance nature, rather than its quantity." Absolutely agree with that statement. Another quote from an experienced driver i can relate this too would be Jay Leno saying "the most fun happens between 0-60 mph". Horsepower and torque shouldn't make or break any vehicle. Great video.
i test drove an frs a while back and nothing handled quite like it, truly an amazing car
I am thinking that the Z being tested doesn't have the sport package with larger brakes and sport suspension and LSD.
Forget about the vlsd on the z, you need a proper one
Yeah but fixing that Porsche vs fixing the Gt86...
Watch Tiff from 5th gear and other previous race drivers give their say on the Nissan 370Z, I like Chris, but it seems to me that his love for the GT86 makes him blind and biased... As love often do.
So, as someone with admittedly a huge Porsche bias I got out of the FR-S yesterday with a bigger grin than I had from the Carrera 2S. There's just something magical about being able to use all of the car all of the time that the modern Porsches just don't have. And the recent 911s feel fat.
Really looking forward to Chris' review of the new BRZ/86
2015 mustang is gonna kill this thing EVERYWHERE!!
In your dreams.
2damaxmr2
We'll see brah! Everything everyone used to knock the mustang is GONE and it even comes with a 4 banger now! I'm telling you. Look for a 1000hp 4cyl mustang by the end of 2016 or sooner!!
Chris Ramsey
Hey at least I didn't come here with "gay dick" and "Fart" jokes. XD
Also they're bringing back the SVO...it's under the guise of "ecoboost" but it's been done before. lol
Chris Ramsey
Way to miss the reference and good job staying neutral on the topic...VEERRRY OPINIONATED!! Good DAY, Sir!!
nezerac mustangs are still gay. and so are you, sir.
I just love my gt86
This guy has a hard on for the Toyota, so none of the other cars stand a chance.
You are so lucky. Those are some great roads to drive the FR-S/GT86 on. Tons of hills, changes of elevation and great scenery.
I have some friends who bought a 700hp 2003 mustang cobra in the 30k range. 700hp! sure its not in the same light/nimble category as these but it'll put just as big of a smile on your face as any of em. I guess its not really an option if you're outside north america but I'd definitely have to think about it.