6 Steaming Methods for Breadmaking Compared | Which One Is Best?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2024
- Steam is extremely important for breadmaking, and I have spoken about it many times. But I have never made a dedicated video about steaming methods for the home baker. There are three main benefits of steaming bread. First, it keeps the crust moist preventing it from solidifying too soon and thus helping the bread expand more. Second, it promotes good crust coloration and shine. Third, it makes the crust thinner and crispier.
Steam injection ovens are used in professional bakeries for this purpose. The loaves are loaded in the oven and steam is injected into the chamber. After a while the steam is vented out of the oven to finish the bake.
Unlike commercial ovens, home ovens are not designed to trap steam inside and that is the main struggle for the home baker.
There are various methods that can be used to create steam when baking at home. Some are better than others. The main purpose is to try and recreate the conditions of a commercial oven, but at home. This can be challenging. Steam is only part of the equation. A hot and heavy base to bake the bread on is also quite important. Commercial ovens will have a heavy stone floor most commonly.
At home we can use a baking stone, baking steel, thick metal trays or cast-iron pans.
📖 Read more ➡️ www.chainbaker.com/steaming/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
🌾 If you would like to support my work click here ⤵️
www.ko-fi.com/chainbaker
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
🔪 Find all the things I use here ⤵️
🇺🇸 www.amazon.com/shop/ChainBaker
🇬🇧 www.amazon.co.uk/shop/ChainBaker
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
🥨 To learn more about bread making click here ⤵️
Principles of Baking bit.ly/principles-of-baking
The Steps of Baking bit.ly/steps-of-baking
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
🍞 Share your bread pictures here ⤵️
www.flickr.com/groups/chainba...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chapters
0:00 Intro
2:48 Cast iron pot & lid
3:22 Cast iron skillet & boiling water
4:13 Cast iron skillet & ice cubes
4:51 Upturned metal bowl
5:28 Baking tray & boiling water
6:01 Water spray bottle
6:48 Comparing the results
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#Bread #Baking #ChainBaker - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
📖 Read more in the link below the video ⤴
🌾 If you would like to support my work click here ⤵
www.ko-fi.com/chainbaker
🔪 Find all the things I use here ⤵
🇺🇸 www.amazon.com/shop/ChainBaker
🇬🇧 www.amazon.co.uk/shop/ChainBaker
🍞 Share your bread pictures here ⤵
www.flickr.com/groups/chainbaker/
i use welding gloves ...you can find them in any size and length and thickness.... just bringing on ideas ....in the shop u can as well fing leather scirts to protect the chest and legs ....safetyscreens ...i once told a dutch fishbake shop ... next time i returned he remembered me ...for fish fritting and to protect against these water and fat explosions ...he was very content with thet stuff..
This video had me laughing out loud in sheer delight! Only 8:25 long and all of the bases covered. Fantastic.
This is probably the first and last time I'll say this here: This year is my fortieth bread baking anniversary. Yet I still learned something from this video.
My long stumbling learning curve has led me through every conceivable steaming method except plumbing in a steam generator. (I've seen that done too - it's great). It has been a long and expensive journey.
In my book your results are spot on.
Can I add a little of the science please?
Ice cubes are a total *_no_* . It takes a huge amount of energy to make water change it's state. From Ice to water (one change of state) uses up a lot of oven heat and it still has to change water to steam, a second state change, and so they give two periods cooling the oven. Your results proved the point.
Cast iron covered pot is by far the best 'cloche' system along with heavy steel. Iron and steel have a very high heat capacity and high thermal conductivity. So compared to ceramic cloches they heat faster (conductivity) and hold more heat for longer (heat capacity) and transfer the heat to the bread more effectively (conductivity and capacity). Ceramic Cloches and stones cannot hold as much heat and they cool faster and take longer to come back up to temperature. They still trap the steam well though, they are good, but they are so expensive. I gave my grade A ceramic cloche away and got an iron cloche years ago. And, I dumped my first class baking stone for a steel baking plate a year ago and have never looked back.
I see Charlie didn't put his steam pan on the bottom of the oven, but on a low shelf. This is so important because it allows the bottom element to heat the oven without blocking it.
Here is a tweak for those using a roasting tray or cast iron to pour water into. I have a cheap stove top kettle with a long spout so my hands stay well away from the steam. The water I pour in is near boiling. Water has the highest specific heat capacity of any material known to mankind. To raise it by one degree C needs a lot of heat, so the hotter it is when it's poured in the more readily it will make steam.
Here's a tweak that I know Charlie knows about, but it would have slowed him down 😁. Using Lava rocks in the water tray increases the surface area and just like in a Sauna the water will boil off more readily making steam.
We only need steam for the first ten minutes. It keeps the crust soft and allows maximum oven spring. After ten minutes it has done it's job. So when using a water bath open the door briefly at say fifteen minutes and remove the water bath. This will stop the steaming and allow the crust to start developing and browning. Weirdly Dutch Pots and ceramic cloches seem to allow just enough steam to escape that they 'run out of steam' at about the right time.
How much water do you need in your water tray? Open the oven door at five minutes and if a cloud of stem doesn't come out add more water next time. You can always add a bit more during the 10 minute steaming time too. I use 500ml. Just over a U.S. Pint. Too much is not a problaem as the steam tray should come out after about ten minutes anyway.
Even a cheap enamelled roasting dish with a lid is better than nought and they're actually rather good.
Along with being careful not to spray the glass door and shatter it... The oven light will shatter too. I've taken a couple out over the years, but I have had little joy spraying the oven sides, I think it just cools the oven and domestic ovens need to stay as hot as you set them as they take time to get back up to heat. For that very reason I pre-heat everything 10C hotter than I want and turn the oven down when the bread is in. Opening the door lets a lot of heat out. Hence spraying the bread Charlie fashion is a good way to go.
Lastly some temptation... A Challenger pan must be the ultimate cast iron cloche. They're fairly expensive now 😱, they were designed by a home bread baker and I have found nothing better for Bâtards which won't fit into a cast iron casserole, or Dutch Pot. Challenger pans are too small for a decent sized batch of rolls, or Batons though.
One last trick. Heavy Steel baking 'stones' can sometimes overcook the bottom of the bread. Lowering the oven temperature a little can can help. So too can those silicon wrist bands. Silicon doesn't start to melt until it reaches 1000C (that's not a typo). I once saw a home baker take his Bâtard out half way through the bake and place it back onto the steel plate on top of three silicon wrist bands set on their side. Home bakers are immensely creative.
I hope something here is of some use to someone.
Thanks Charlie, even by your high standards this vlog is immortal!
🐱+ Cream.
Some really great information right here. Thank you, Kevin! The video would have been much longer if I had managed to fit all of this in there. Your comments are always an extremely valuable addition. And I can see that plenty other people appreciate it just by looking at the 'Thumbs up' count 👍
The Challenger pan has been on my wish list for a very long time. If I did not have the Lodge pot, I'd get it in a heartbeat 😅
Happy baking birthday when ever it may be! 🥳🍞😁
I always feel a little cheeky with these posts as I know that as a Pro. Chef you will know a truck load of the science behind food, cooking and baking. That's 0.95 truckloads more than me. 😁
But yes, your videos would be like an epic movie requiring popcorn and a beer if you fitted it all in.
Charlie Unchained'? The movie - I'd pay top see it. 😁
Thanks :)
You definitely know more about the science of baking than I do 👨🍳 I just try a lot of stuff until it works or doesn't 😅
Perhaps a book might be in order in the next few years. I got plenty of material..I just need to format it all and bind it together 🤓
@@ChainBaker It will be a stonker! 🙂
Hi Kevin, Thanks for your input! What about a Pyrex pot, does it yield similar results compared to a cast iron pot? I've been using a Pyrex for quite some time now with good results but wonder whether buying a cast iron would be an improvement.
Foodgeek once compared a Pyrex and cast iron and there were no noticeable differences. But he put the loaf on a baking steel and only used the pot as cover while I do it in the more traditional way by using the lid and pot (the latter as cover). Any thoughts?
Best Mike
Hi Charlie, I'm not exaggerating when I say I thank God everyday I found your channel! The level of dedication and hardwork you do for this video and every other video is truly admirable. Just made one of your oat breads today and it was a marvelous success. Never made oat breads before so thankyou so much for introducing me to it. Eager to see you reach 1M subscribers!!
I'm glad you're finding my channel useful 🍞 cheers! ✌️
That vid took a lot of work, so I'd like to say Thanks for all your effort to help inform and entertain us.
Super Outstanding this is what i waiting for !
All your test breads looked good to eat! 👍🏻😊
I do have the Dutch oven, but most of the time I use the spray bottle, it’s easy and handy!
It's really cool to see spray bottle being so effective at achieving results, since it's pretty much "no investment" option for most casual bakers. But one thing that i would love to see is how glassware performe in comparison. I have a large glass casserole dish with a high lid for roasting poultry and i was considering to try it for a bread making. It's pretty thick, so i expect it do quite well, when i finally get my hands on making "free form" loaves, instead of sandwich bread and buns.
Also i found out that my home oven got a really bad ventilation, so moisture doesn't leave it as well. I've been trying to make some crispy potatoes in it with some mediocre results and figured it's must be moisture getting trapped inside of the oven. Which makes it great for making bread. You lose some, you win some.
Glassware works really well. I've used large glass baking dishes in the past. The best part is that you get a view of the bread as it's baking.
I wish my oven had a ventilation problem 😅
Yes, would have be nice to see ChainBaker include glassware. I have a large glass dutch oven, a vision corningware, used it to bake bread a few times now with some moderate to good success. I heat up the glass lid rocket hot in the oven. I put the dough in the glass pot and then lid it. I then heat it up on top of the gas range before it goes in the oven. Next time i may try a few sprays of water before putting on the lid.
Just started a gluten free sourdough starter, looking at methods for baking more than one oval loaf at a time- your video is perfect- ty!
First, thank you for all the videos. They have been enlightening! When steam baking bread I usually use a pan in the bottom adding boiling water and spray the loaf with a spray bottle. This is all I have tried, but I like the crispy crust that it creates. I have also baked in a cast iron dutch oven with a lid. Thank you for sharing!
Joe
Thanks for the amazing content
Love this video!! Will try out the spray bottle method
I like coupling the spray bottle with my Dutch oven 👍 highly recommend a big spray bottle dedicated to clean water for kitchen use. Excellent for reheating breads as well, spray them before they go into the oven, and it'll help prevent the crust from over browning 👍
I've been using a cupcake sheet full of water to create my steam. Works great and if I want to mix ice cubes in some of the cups.
Another great video - Thanks Charlie! I don't have a spray bottle so I've been wetting my hands and gently (lovingly???) caressing the surface of the loaf before slashing and putting it on a pizza stone in my oven. I also have a thick stainless steel frypan in the bottom of the oven, pouring in about 1/3-1/2 cup of boiling water into it when its all up to temp - getting some great results too. I love having sesame seeds on my mutigrain loaves and the wet hands method seems to help them stay nicely stuck down -but it works without them as well. A bit of a hack but I love a good hack that works!
I own an iron Dutch Oven, but today I use only a baking stone and the heating vessel from my Moka Pot to produce the steam. I place the breads over the stone and then the vessel already heated with boiling water inside. I have a convencional eletric oven and the chamber is satisfatory sealed, so it retains a good amount of steam. By the way, I bake a lot of sourdoughs breads!
I don't have a cast iron pan yet so I use a preheated 13inch x 20inch anodized rectangle grill pan to put the water into. Also for Cuban bread I seem to be getting good results spraying the loaf and pouring the water on the grill pan. Great video, thank you. Cheers!
The fact that this isnt the most numerically popular bread making channel makes me think how most of the real jewels on youtube might not be on the surface at all. Lots of channels titles consists only of "DONT DO THIS", "DON'T MAKE THIS MISTAKE", which render them useless to help you find what you want (and review later). Meanwhile ChainBaker already shows what he is for by making his titles and thumbnails completely comprehensive. Those clickbaity are indeed having more views (maybe from paid bots and boosting too, which mean it's just fake views anyway, if they are willing to use one crappy trick, they probably are on board with others).
But a loyal fanbase which have been attracted by true content is much more valuable than one who have been lured with tricks. Here's to the ChainBaker
Wow, thank you so much for the kind words! 😍 Cheers!
I was about to say that Lodge chicken fryer/skillet combo is only about $50, and then I realized that shipping cast iron to another country is probably hellishly expensive... But my Southern roots say to get it anyway, because besides its use for steaming bread, that is the best thing in the world for making Southern fried chicken! ;)
No do say it! We have Lodge here in the U.K. On Amazon and dare I say it there are a lot of cheaper Chinese copy cats of most designs on there too.
Thanks for the tip. :)
Thank you very much for your videos. Very informative and practical! I love it.
Another alternative is a clay pot with a lid (called a "Roman pot" in Poland). It works perfectly fine for bread, especially if you soak it in water beforehand (what you shuld always do anyway with clay pots).
Btw: you can bake bread in cold Dutch iron cast pan as well, as long as you place it (with bread inside) in cold oven (FoodGeek tried it). The same as with clay pot :)
Thanks for these informations
You're such a good docker/scorer. I'm looking for your videos about docking and not seeing any. My mom is trying to improve her bread docking! I could have sworn I've seen you discuss the correct techniques before
Here is a very very short video about it - th-cam.com/video/V3b0qf6cNPc/w-d-xo.html ;)
An excellent series of videos. Many thanks for your help.
I have tried the water in a steel pan beneath the bread, but the pan is too thin to hold heat. Ice cubes in the same pan yield the same results, with which I am not pleased. My most successful method, thus far, is the simple spray bottle.
A couple of days ago, I purchased a 6 litre cast iron pan and lid. Can't wait to take delivery, then I can more closely follow your method.
there is no failure! just dodgy, instructive loaves. :)
i recommend an enameled cast iron pot. it works like your cast iron tool except i can use it for other things like making soup.
I use a clay bread cloche, together with a Römertopf (same principle). They fit in the oven together, so I can bake 2 sourdough loafs at the same time. Just perfect!
That's cool. You can't preheat Römertopf, can you? And do you soak it in water beforehand too?
I have a Dutch oven but I can only do boules in it. I think I'll try the cast iron with boiling water on my baking stone and do a batard next time. Great video!
I fabricated a moon shaped cup and mounted it near the rim of a dutch oven. It holds one to two oz of water which is a whole lot of steam.
That was amazing!
🙏
This was really interesting. I always use ice as I thought that made more sense than boiling water but now I see your point. I must try with boiling water. I have tried spritzing a loaf before but with little success. I guess I have to try that again too. As always, thank you for your knowledge. 🙂
Thanks, this is very useful. To protect the oven glass, cover it with a kitchen towel (must be 0% synthetic). And be careful when spraying into the oven - I once killed the lamp...
Love the comparison, maybe this finally gets me to buy a skillet haha. Right now I use a baking tray, which I preheat in the oven, before adding in boiling water. My baking surface is a pizza stone. Usually that works fine for me.
Thank you for this. I'll likely watch it a few more times. I'm an 80 year old newbie baker. I've been baking white bread in two loaf pans and a crusty overnight-rise bread in an oblong enameled iron Dutch oven. Ice in the Dutch oven. Surprising to me, the small step of adding two cubes of ice was a game changer. Much crunchier, tasty crust. It seemed to me that the crumb was pretty much unaffected. The problem with my oblong oven is that it's difficult to get a well-shaped loaf, so I'm likely to go to the iron pot and lid.
I like simple changes, so will probably try the spray as well.
Again, thanks.
Hi James! That is great to hear. It's nice to have go-to recipes and even better when we can improve them over time. The spray botte has been a game changer for me. Personally, I think it's much more effective than the ice cubes. But combining the cast iron pot and the spray bottle is even better. Cheers!
I add lava stones to the oven tray method, preheated. All that extra surface area throws up a big cloud of steam at the beginning.
That sounds like a great idea! Thanks!!
where do you get lava stones?
@@lisaboban Commonly sold and intended for barbecuing I think, 3 kilos for £7 on amazon was the perfect amount for my deep oven tray. The point is just rocks that get hot. But you don't want garden pebbles that get hot and shatter. I assume that being ex-lava, these rocks are preferred for being stable at a wide range of temperatures.
@@longline Thank you!!! Sounds like a great way to add steam to an oven! Now I've got a new technique to try!
Doesnt it toxic when release steam?
Combi Oven 😊 so blessed to have one at work.
I use a pan of water and spray .. it’s not the best but it’s what I’ve got. Thanks for another great video.
What an interesting comparison video - I have used:
1. Cast Iron pan with lid (majority of my loaf baking)
2. Cast iron pan placed below 3/4" baking stone and then add 1/2 cup boiling water
3. Spray Bottle
#1 - works the best
#2 - I am still tweaking the process as sometimes the flash of steam makes the oven setting go wonky
#3 - works well for the specific application/recipe
Thanks for sharing these methods - appreciate it greatly. If I am ever baking "somewhere else" where I cannot bring my equipment, I will most definitely refer to this video for the options based upon what equipment is available. 👍👍 "Bake On" everyone!!!!
The travelling baker! 🤩 You must pack a spray bottle when you go anywhere 😉
@@ChainBaker 😆😉
@@Jeepy2-LoveToBake Now we know what's in Lan's fanny pack! 😁
I use a clay cloche, a Romertopf, also made clay and a cast iron Lodge like the one in this video and also a spray bottle. I always spray the bread before I score and I get an excellent rise. I don't like the ice cube method, either.
I use a borosilicate glass baking dish with a lid - the flat lid on the bottom and the dish on the top. I bake 2 breads at once in 2 such glass dishes. They just about fit diagonally in my oven.
I add a couple ice cubes inside my cast iron cooker (Challenger) in conjunction with the oven off method. That seems to work really well for me.
I use an inverted giant turkey tray which work for baguettes as well. I spray the inside of the tray before putting it in.
I use a small glass baking dish with a small amount of boiling water and the spray bottle combined. When I started to add the spray, result were def improving!
I use my big stainless steel Spaghetti pot for baking my weekly loaf: it has a thick bottom which keeps the heat for a long period of time and doesn't bend. With an all steel lid it works quite weil.
Hey ChainBaker. Thanks for the videos. It’s helped me improve. I like experimenting and i made a sandwich loaf using half biga and half yudane. I like the texture and flavor. Give it a try!
Sounds great! I might try and make a yudane bread with preferment. Cheers ✌️
Since I have just a small oven with convection only, my go to method is to bake in a tin and use a second tin as a cover and hold it with two paper clips. I've found this method on a channel called Artisan Bread With Steve.
I tried several of these methods. Cast iron skillet and top was too heavy. Ice cubes into a cast iron did well on the first batch but on my last batch I still had water in the cast iron, so not so good. My final method has worked very well, a pre heated cast iron plate to cook my dough on but before placing them in the oven I spray the dough and my parchment paper with water, a whole lot of water….. so far it has worked great every time.
Awesome! Hating the oven while i type, gonna do it slightly different then you, have a tray with cut butternut squash low in the oven, that should give the bread some steam during baking :D
Now that is smart use of energy! 😁
I tend to use a cast iron pan with a lid. For bigger loaves, a pizza stone and boiling water in the cast iron pan method.
I am using a high tray or pot for baking poultry. I do not preheat it, though I bake on the preheated stone and cover the bread. I spray the inside of the pot before covering the bread with it. I bake the bread covered for 35 minutes, then 15 minutes uncovered. My loaf is usually around 1.2kg.
The all rounder spray bottle - plants, baking, heatwave, haircuts, etc ;)
Cast iron Dutch oven with lid is my go-to for breads that fit in it. When not possible, I use a pan with lava rocks that I pour boiling water into and a loaf pan with steaming towels that goes in the oven while it’s preheating.
The dream is to buy either an Anova precision oven or a Fotile steam oven so I can just steam as I please!
I started with a tray and spray bottle then moved to an upturned preheated Pyrex casserole dish and still get the same result with that as any of my Le Crueset items. Its just 90% cheaper!
I’ve used the ice cubes in the bottom of the oven trick. As you said, some steam is better than no steam! Lol
For Baguettes I use an Aluminum pan up-side down over them bread. Heat the over higher than the baking temp, place the bread and pan into the oven, bake until the bread get set, uncover and finish baking.
I useb a dutch oven for round loaves and a combination of water pan and spray bottle for freeform loaves.
Regarding the ice cubes (and pan): Not that I've tried it but there is most likely a huge difference depending on if the oven has under heating as well (I don't think I've seen any oven here in Sweden that doesn't have both over and under heating (including wooden stoves - those generally have fire on three sides of the oven at least - quite hard to control the heat in those!)
Cast iron is probably the best material.
But i use thick volcanic pizza stone and the clay lid. Clay and stone are good for keeping the heat as well. And the best part of this setup - it's pretty big. Big enough for 33-35cm baguette for example.
Greattttt really big thanks 👏👏♥️♥️♥️
I have a question here, why when use spray water i see it has a brown crust even more than the rest?
Steam promotes browning, so perhaps the moistest dough became the brownest too.
My personal method is preheating my Dutch oven in the oven for an hour at 450. Dropping my loaf in then putting the lid back on and letting it go for 25 minutes. When I remove the lid for coloring I put a small wire rack in the bottom of the Dutch and place the bread on top. Let it go for 15-20 more. You get color and avoid having a burnt/too hard of a bottom. Easier for slicing
I use an old pan with some stones to give it some additional thermal capacity, that works quite fine for me.
The Dutch oven or cast iron pan is always great, but it's only good for one loaf. I normally bake 3 loaves at a time. So unfortunately I can't bake like that regularly. I have to use my baking trey which fits 3 loafs on it perfectly, then toss a cup of water into an empty pan underneath. It's the best I can do, and results are good enough.
I use the cast iron pan with a lid, but I toss a couple ice cubes inside with the bread before the lid goes on
I also use the lava Rock method. I am starting a new method where I put soaking wet towels in the pan before the oven comes up to temperature and let it steam for a good 10 minutes before I put the dough in. We'll see...
I haven’t gotten around to baking bread that needs steam, I’ve only made focaccia
The timing of this vid couldn't be better! Since I work from home these days, I've been baking more during the day. I am baking pane Francese today. I typically use the spray bottle - mostly because it's easy. Today I will use both spray bottle AND cast iron skillet/boiling water method. I'll reply later with my results.
Thank you for another great and informative video! What do you add to the inside of the cast iron pot to stop the bread from sticking to it? Butter, oil?
Nothing. If it's well pre heated then the bread will never stick.
@@ChainBaker Ideal! Thanks
궁금증을 해소할수있도록 최선을 다하고있는 chainbaker님 덕분에 큰 도움이 될것으로 기대한다 감사합니다!
정말 고맙습니다! :)
I would love to hear your remarks about how this changes when a pizza stone is used as a baking surface. Also, is it better to used the round stones so the steam can go “around” them and reach the loaves better?
A baking surface comparison video will be coming soon. A round stone may help in this case, but generally it's a lot less practical than a large baking surface. I'd always go with the largest possible surface and work with that.
Do you use the lodge for cooking as well, or do you keep it as a dedicated pan for bread? I followed your links to your storefront and was very surprised how affordable the lodge combo is. It almost a steal at those prices.
I only use it for bread because I can't be bothered with looking after it 😅
Hey Charlie, My favorite method for baking bread is my Challenger bread pan. However, I agree with you, when baking something that doesn't fit, I use a baking steel and cast iron pan for steam. Also, was wondering if you were still needing a non-stick loaf pan? I would like to send you my favorite!
I will definitely invest in a Challenger bread pan one day. If only I did not have my Lodge pot, it would be so much easier to commit to it 😂
I've recently bought a anodized aluminium pan and soon I will start testing. Hopefully this is the one 🤞 Cheers! 😉
@@ChainBaker I have a Challenger. Be aware they are really heavy with the lid on. Bending over and extending your arms while holding it can be a real strain. My oven doesn't have roller racks and the racks just don't slide in very well with the Challenger on it so I have to reach in with the pan. Also it put a bow in one of my racks. It makes great bread but I don't use it much due to its weight.
Hi! Were you using a gas oven for this video? I saw another one from King Arthur Baking Company where they suggest not using the spray bottle for gas oven since it's an open chamber and the steam easily seeps out
I use an electric oven. Most home ovens are designed to vent the steam out. All we can do is try our best. The cast iron pan is certainly the most effective baking vessel for home bakers.
I've got an interesting question. How much does opening the oven door affect the final loaf?
Steam escapes (if not sprayed), heat is lost, even more so if sprayed. It's something I've read that shouldn't be done but I haven't experimented.
Not as much as it would affect a cake. You should of course avoid opening the door and if you do, then make it quick.
since i like baking two loaves at a time on my baking steel i don't use the dutch oven as often, as a consequence i've tried a lot of methods over time including the ones presented in this video. my conclusions are not as obvious as one might think. al tests were done using a calibrated probe clipped 4cm above the baking steel
- the most important thing to note is that using a cast iron skillet on the bottom of the oven is the one method that causes the largest drop in temperature inside the oven (260c to 190c over the course of 15 minutes, even setting the thermostat to full tilt); the bottom heating element is dumping most of its energy into the cast iron, and into the water. the oven will struggle to keep 200c, let alone 230. that strictly depends on how much water you pour in the skillet: a quarter cup will only drop it to 210, half a cup all the way to 190. the mass of hot cast iron is not nearly enough to influence the recovery time in a meaningful way
- baking dishes, sheet pans, pyrex trays all suffer the same issue, and usually make it worse as their size increases (they're generally larger than a skillet), because they further add barriers between the heating element and the bread
- ice cubes work well, just like boiling water does: the trick is to toss it on the oven floor. this of course only matters if your bottom element is hidden under a plate like in most european ovens. throwing half a cup of boiling water on the oven floor will generate a considerable amount of steam right away, a 20c drop in temperature (instead of 40c), and will keep boiling for about 10 minutes. by the time you're venting the oven, it'll be all gone
most of the steam we create when we dump water into the oven escapes through the door, the only way to keep most of it inside is to make sure the water hits the surface of your choosing only after the door is closed. there are a couple of ways to do this, for example pulling a steel wire tied to a suitable vessel to tilt it and spill its contents. namely, a cheap stainless steel cocktail glass cup: drill a tiny hole below the rim, tie some steel wire to it, fill it with water, place it on the oven floor, preheat the oven as usual, load the bread, close the door, pull on the string, done
if that's too much effort, my advice is just throw half a cup of hot water on the oven floor once you've loaded the bread and close the door quickly. also, remember to shield the top element with a tray during the first part of the cook, you can take it out when finishing
Some great tips here. Thanks! I would be careful with pouring water or dropping ice cubes right on the floor of the oven because it may just warp.
@@ChainBaker oh it totally does. it warps like crazy. goes back after it's cooled off though, no big deal
What about a Dutch oven as a stand in for a cast iron pot with a lid? It’s still cast iron with a lid except it has a light colored ceramic coating. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen people bake bread in them.
Works the same way 👍
what's the difference between spraying the dough with water and brushing it on? I just watched the video comparison on different glazes and you mentioned brushing the dough with water before baking. Anyway great video, thanks!
Spraying is just more convenient.
@@ChainBaker ok, thanks!
Chef would you make bread with yogurt sourdough starter, and what is the plus and minus with yogurt,... thank you chef
Until Charlie get's back to you.
Yoghurt will give the sourdough starter a lactic acid boost. That can be handy for rye breads because the acidity inhibits amylase activity which can degrade the loaf volume (Starch Attack).
However, Yoghurt Lactobacilli are of a kind evolved to metabolise milk (Casein). The lactobacilli in your sourdough will move in without help. This usually takes about four weeks after it was first started. So a good sourdough starter will have them anyway. These ones will be of a kind evolved to metabolise flour.
Yoghurt, along with milk, contains Casein. This will give you a softer crumb, so if that's what you want, then use it.
I hope this was a little helpful.
Good baking to you.
@@kevinu.k.7042 thank you chef,...this is very helpfull for me
I’ve been making Chinese steamed buns in a stack of steaming baskets. I started toasting them in the oven right out of the steamer with excellent results. I’m thinking of risking a loaf of sourdough using this method.
Literally steaming it for twenty minutes then baking it. Have you ever tried it? It would probably require a loaf pan to avoid becoming a frisbee.
Sounds interesting! I might try something like that someday 😁
Can I use two baking pans, say spring form pans, on top of each other so that one of the pans serves as a cover? Asking because I want to bake more breads at the same time. Dutch oven is too big and heavy for me. lol
I'd go with the spray bottle. It's easy and effective.
sometimes i have 3 sourdough breads to bake and i want to save electricity and i only have 1 cast iron dutch oven (for 1 bread), then i use a pot with a lid for the second bread (it's an IROC non stick pot) and the 3rd bread in a loaf tin (large 2 lb one) and i put another loaf tin on top to create a closed environment, i spray all the doughs after scoring them and i also spray the lids of all 3 for some extra steam, mind you all the pots are preheated in the oven before doing all this
All the bread come out fine but the cast iron always has the best oven spring for sure, i hope to be able to afford a challenger cast iron pan (299$USD) one day but it's very pricy compared to the cast iron dutch oven (75$CAD canadian)
My breads so far grew sideways, exactly as you described 😂. I used the option of cast iron pan and water spraying. I was impressed watching my bread growing upwards. BUT WHAT HAPPENED FEW MINUTES LATER WAS VERY DISSAPOINTING. THE BASE OF THE BREAD BRAKE APART. ANY IDEA HOW TO DEAL WITH THIS? MORE SCORING OR LESS YEAST? PERHAPS THE CAST IRON MUST BE COOL AT THE BEGINING? PLEASE HELP
Perhaps the dough was a bit weaker or it could have been scored deeper and steamed even more. Try shaping tighter maybe lower the hydration to make it easier. Cut it deeper too.
@@ChainBaker Thanks so much. I need to focus on the dough. Highly appreciated.
what about the temperature and timing for steaming ????
It is worth pre-heating the oven a bit hotter than the baking temperature when steaming and then turning it down once the bread goes in. Timing you don't really need to worry about when it comes to home ovens as the steam will escape pretty quickly. But in a well sealed oven the door should be opened to let the steam out about halfway through the bake.
does adding steam contribute a better oven spring for breads in a loafpan?
Most definitely. It's about keeping the crust soft for that last oven spring.
Yes. Even though it is only the top surface that is exposed, it can still benefit from steaming.
In my case, my oven is a gas oven, and the burner is on the bottom of the oven. This makes impossible to use a tray in the bottom to create steam, as the water evaporates like in 1 minute. My preferred method is to moist the bread directly, instead.
I’ve had good results using a thin aluminum cake pan and parchment to rest the loaf on with a very thin stainless mixing \utility bowl as a cover. No baking stone or steel plate. Could it be that your bowl acted as a heat sink stealing heat from your steel plate?
It’s difficult to teach a foolproof method when everyone’s ovens are a little different. I would love to find a counter top oven that is specifically made for a loaf of sourdough bread, with high temperature and highly accurate temperature reading and control. A steaming function wouldn’t hurt either . Under $200 too.
I'm sure it exists. But nowhere near as affordable as $200 😥
@@ChainBaker
I heard that. I did find a few that cost as much as a fairly good used car. It can’t be that complicated to produce a small insulated box capable of easily attaining and maintaining higher temperatures suitable for a loaf of sourdough. Insurance liability may have something to do with such a device’s absence. A device that has a top temperature that exceeds the norm by 25% or 30% may have insurance companies thinking “burnt to the bone” lawsuits.
There are plenty of counter top ovens you can bake in. I’ve been using them since I got totally screwed buying a $2000 piece of stainless junk.(which will someday be cut up and its metal used to produce a functioning oven)
The trouble with the affordable ovens is they have to be run at their maximum capacity to bake these breads and it significantly shortens their life span.
This is starting to sound like a project, or more specifically a quest. The fact is, hillbilly metal workers around here build forging and tempering ovens that attain temperatures that can ignite steel for well under $100.
I think something could be made using induction burners and a metal enclosure. They can easily induce very high temperatures . Yup , I have a project.
I would not trust myself with something like that 😅 but if you know what you're doing, then I reckon it's pretty simple.
Good luck and be careful 😎
I was thinking what will happen if you cook it for 5 to 10 min on a steamer first and then in the oven
I think that would work pretty well. But it would make it quite a complicated process😁
A dutch oven produces the best spring and crust for me, but it's niether practical nor economical with larger batches.
When baking 2 or 3 loaves at the same time, I use the trays that came with the oven: preheat them both, put the loaves on the shallow one and pour boiling water in the deep one, which I remove after 15-20 minutes.
The spring is good enough and the crust is nicely browned, but not as crunchy as I'd like it to be. I guess it's either because there is still plenty of moisture in the crammed oven after removing the tray or because the oven is sruggling to keep a high enough temperature.
Does anyone have any tips or tricks for baking several loaves in one go in a home oven?
Perhaps you could crank the oven up to max temperature and turn it down once the loaves have been loaded?!
Yes, I do this anyway for both single and multiple bakes to make up for the heat lost while loading the oven.
How is a steam oven compare?
That would do the best job.
Could you please add text graphic on your video to make clear which bread is it? I got confused.
They are always in the same order
3 pie pans of water creates enormous steam. 2 under, 1 on same rack as bread.
Have you ever baked steamed buns, the Asian style of baking?
A few, yes! :)
th-cam.com/video/6wfUnI0ZPE0/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/tFF_wfYYF-k/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/Wn3KNn4wi3U/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/l0T7LywaiLU/w-d-xo.html
I need a stronger/better oven! My cast iron pan is too heavy for it!
Perhaps you could put the pan on the floor of the oven instead of the rack? Would that work?
Until then you might try a thin enamelled metal roasting dish and lid, very cheap too, or Charlies' upturned thin metal bowl. Both work fairly well IMO.
Hold on, aren't you afraid of cracking the cast iron with the ice cubes? I heard many times that cast iron can crack if you expose it to temperature shock (hot pan/cold water). Btw great video as always!
I have also good results with the preheated glass oven dish with lid and moistening the bread when putting into the preheated vessel.
That thing is indestructible as far as I can tell 😄
Have you ever tried using a Dutch oven with the lid on?
I did. In the first example.
@@ChainBaker Thanks for the reply. Perhaps Dutch oven has a different meaning in my part of the world. I'm talking about an enamel coated vessel shaped like a deep pot. Because it's so deep the lid is flat as opposed to domed. You have to lower the loaf down into it with parchment paper which I have struggled with. Hope I explained that well enough. Curious about your thoughts. Thanks for the awesome videos!
Are you referring to placing the loaf in a standard Dutch Oven (deep base with lid) and then covering with the lid (vs the inverted method ChainBaker demonstrated)? That was the method I used when I started baking no-knead bread and then continued using it to bake sourdough bread (Before I found ChainBaker's YT channel/website). It works just fine. I thought that if I used the "Lodge Combo" inverted method, that the side crusts of the loaves would brown and crisp up better as they are more exposed in the oven during the second half of baking. So now I have at least four Dutch ovens (which I still use for cooking) and three Lodge Combos (I usually bake two loaves at a time).
Ah I see! Yeah those are slightly more difficult to bake in because the loaf must be lowered into the pot, but they produce pretty much the same result in the end. I've used a Dutch pot before. I prefer my combo cooker though ✌️
@@Jeepy2-LoveToBake Oh I didn't realize Chain Baker's Dutch oven can be turned upside down. My Dutch oven that I'm talking about has a handle on top of the lid so it cannot be used upside down. Do you have lower the loaf in the Dutch oven with parchment paper for what you're calling the "inverted method"?
you made a mistake whe you said bread in a cold pot wont bake very well, yes you are richt when the oven is hot, BUT bread in a cold pot/Dutch oven place in the oven during pre heating gives excellent results, it usually is the first loaf I bake making use of all energy used. (today I need to bake a cake as well that is at lower temp so all is a bit different .
I must try that out. Cheers 😎
@@ChainBaker YES would love to see YOU do that comparison, as I've heard of this (getting more oven spring?) For today's, I had been hoping you would have also included brushing water on the surface of the bread before baking, as that seems the simplest. I've just been concerned the crust won't become crisp. (BTW I've been having good success with your Yudane whole grain loaf! thanks again!)
I never even considered it. But now thinking about it seems like a great method.
Brushing water would work similarly to spraying. I'd say spraying is better because there is no risk of distorting the surface.
Awesome! I'll be posting another yudane recipe soon. 😉
I just throw a half cup of water in the hot oven and run. 😏
Dutch oven dude. Everyone has one...or should.
can you send me one?