Can You have TOO MUCH STEAM When Baking Bread?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
- Everyone always says, steam, steam and even more steam for bread baking. But is it really true? Well, this experiment sheds new and interesting light on the topic, let me show you.
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My tools:
Banneton proofing basket (25cm length, 15cm width, 8.5cm height): thbrco.io/banneton
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Dough scraper: thbrco.io/dough-scraper
Dough scraper golden: thbrco.io/dough-scraper-gold
Dutch oven for batards (Challenger Bread Pan): thbrco.io/dutch-oven-batards
Dutch oven round (Lodge): thbrco.io/dutch-oven-round
Dutch oven with glas lid (Brovn) - (Coupon BREADCODE for 5% off): thbrco.io/dutch-oven-glas-lid
Infrared thermometer: thbrco.io/infared-meter
Loaf pan (30cm length x 12cm width x 9cm height): thbrco.io/loaf-pan-regular
Loaf pan with lid (34cm length, 13cm width, 12cm height): thbrco.io/loaf-pan-lid
No stick spray (vegetable based): thbrco.io/non-stick-spray
Ooni pizza oven: thbrco.io/ooni-pizza-oven
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Oven thermometer: thbrco.io/oven-thermometer
pH meter to check acidity (advanced): thbrco.io/ph-meter-advanced
pH meter to check acidity (basic): thbrco.io/ph-meter
Rolling pin (Coupon BREADCODE for 10% off): thbrco.io/rolling-pin
Scoring Knife Schnittholz Olive: thbrco.io/scoring-knife-schni...
Scoring Knife Zatoba Walnut (Coupon BREADCODE for 10% off): thbrco.io/scoring-knife-zatoba
The best bread knife (made in Germany): thbrco.io/bread-knife
Weck starter jars: thbrco.io/weck-jars
The flour that I am using:
Drax Mühle Manitoba flour 14% protein: thbrco.io/drax-flour
For ze Germans: Which flour in Germany?: thbrco.io/blog-flour
Mulino Padano Bread flour 15% protein (Coupon TheBreadCode for 5% off): thbrco.io/mulino-flour
Strong whole wheat flour (Coupon TheBreadCode for 5% off): thbrco.io/whole-wheat-flour
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The perfect batard sourdough: thbrco.io/batard-shirt
Recommended videos:
Debaked ep. 1 - Pizza journey to Napoli: thbrco.io/debaked-napoli
Debaked ep. 2 - Journey to a flour mill: thbrco.io/debaked-flour-mill
Discard starter bread: thbrco.io/discard-starter-bread
Fermentation time table: thbrco.io/fermentation-time-t...
Make a sourdough starter: thbrco.io/make-sourdough-starter
Make your starter more active: thbrco.io/more-active-starter
Recommend sourdough bread recipe: thbrco.io/sourdough-recipe
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Chapters:
0:00 Intro
0:12 The importance of steam
3:20 Bread 1
8:40 Whole wheat
12:35 Bread 3
15:40 Super blisters
#sourdough #bread - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
Hi,
Thank you for this video.
This experiment is definitly worth running. I would just suggest, based my basic understanding of thermodynamics that in order to get relevant results it would be more suitable to not use a big cube but multiple small cubes. Exchanges between objects, whether it's a mass or heat exchange, are faster in small objects compared to large objects. A large cube that weighs 4 times the small cube is not going to release 4 time as much steam in the first baking minutes which are crutial in the process of crust formation.
I use 3 small cubes in my challenger pan. Perfect every time
🤣 great comment. Thanks! But then - the large ice cube would be better for a steady steam release, or? I think the issue is that you need to make sure that the dough heats up fast, but also not too fast. I wish we could make a simulation for this.
The Bread Code A larger ice cube will release steam more slowly than 2xhalf large ice cube due to the exposed surface area.
Could be a potential second experiment. 30g of ice cubes used, 1 loaf with a large one, the other loaf with that amount crushed.
Finally, another experiment could be topping up the loaf with ice 10 minutes in but using a smaller amount initially. Removing the lid could reset the steam levels so the loaf could react slightly differently. Most steam ovens would release steam in intervals as well so it would be replicating that
i realize I'm pretty off topic but does anyone know a good website to stream new tv shows online?
@Samuel Dwayne i use FlixZone. Just google for it =)
hi! just a suggestion: i transfer my loaf from the banneton in to the parchment paper and then i put it in the pan, holding the sides of the paper. this way, you don't need to flip the (hot) pan when loading and also potentially missing the center of the paper ^^
Great idea. Will try this. I generally don't like parchment paper as it's just another tool that I need 😕
Yes, I do this.....it also saves knocking the dough about 👍🏻
Yes, I was going to add a similar comment. I invert my loaves onto a peel which has Semolina on it, then slide into my clouche. These things are way too hot yo be flipping. Also, I use regular oven mats, the kind that are attached, easy on, easy off.
@@the_bread_code I gave a loaf away to my brother in law and he asked politely if I had cooked the bread on a dirty tray. Why? Because of this sticky black stuff on the bottom.
I had no idea what he was talking about.
Then one weekend we went on a city break. We took a fresh loaf with us in a plastic bag. It had the same disgusting bottom!
Conclusion (for me at least): parchment paper and plastic bags is a horrible combination...
I find that using more steam and baking with the lid on for longer actually produces great quality bread for people that have problems eating (with their teeth), for example: My Grandma. I cannot possibly give her the nice crisp crusted bread that I make for myself precisely because of that crust that she cannot chew, but that's fine, because I can always bake her excellent well done bread with a soft crust :)
So true!!!!
or just cut the crust off her slices.
After 5 minutes on the cooling rack I also put the loaf in a plastic bag for about 15 to 20 minutes. Try to remove most of the air so it continues to cool while wrapped. Then finish cooling on an open rack. The crust will still be fairly crisp but not quite as hard and thick. Alternately brush with oil which also helps keep more moisture in the outer layer, before or after baking each have a bit different effect. (I always brush olive oil on the rim of my pizza crust before baking.)
Hi, I love your channel and just have to say that I appreciate that you include loaves where you made mistakes, and I love your determination! It's reassuring knowing that everyone is human and makes mistakes and I'm not the only one 😅 Now to start adding ice cubes to my bakes!
When you remove the lid, you can also remove the paper - the bottom is already sealed at that point. I use paper when I make pizza for a smooth transition from the pizza peel into the oven. After 5 minutes, I rotate the pizza and pull out the paper. My pizza doesn't stick. The paper isn't hot, so I don't even need gloves for this.
Thanks!
Plus, since the paper doesn't get all crumbly dry, you can reuse it several bakes long.
I love how you're geeking the s#it out of the bread baking! 😍 Awesome content!!!!!
🤓sanks
OK.... You won't believe this. I popped a loaf of Pain Levain in the oven just before watching. Guess what I did?? I forgot to score!!😂😂😂
Ooooh noes! 🤣
I REALLY appreciate you taking us on these experiments. Very timely because I baked this week's Frisbee using too much spritz and too much stream. It was well fermented but looked gelatinous when I checked it I'm using your sample dough rise indicator method and the bread tastes great in spite of being a frisbee. 🤣 At least I understand where I went wrong thanks to your video.
Thank you for posting these great explorations into bread baking technique.
I use a similar process of putting the parchment onto the banneton and then inverting, but I invert onto a cutting board. I then score before lifting the bread into the dutch oven by the corners of the parchment. That way I can stage the dough next to the oven and I only need to move the dutch oven and the lid for short periods of time.
Man... you make me feel good. My last batch, beer may have been involved, and I added 20% salt instead of 2%... let's just say I made hocky puch's. lol
Destroying food because of childish gluttony doesn't make me lol.
Man oh man that burn!! Gotta be careful. Oven mitts have to be bone dry or else you get a nasty steam burn. Excellent experiment......you are very persistent on getting accurate results. 👍
There is a really important factor that is not considered, you lose a lot more pre-heat energy with the large ice cube, and I mean, a lot more, and the volume of steam is not that different, because the small ice cube produce more steam that can fit in the dutch oven, the excess just go out.
At least you can laugh at your "failures". I would cry if I forgot to score 😂 Great video as always!
I felt that burn😔 thanks for doing all these experiments so we don't have to 😁
great idea: small ice cube vs large ice cube. Thanks for keeping it clear which bread is which (in some prior videos at times hard to tell). Scoring idea: one long bold continuous smooth stroke rather than a series of short strokes.
Tried my best. LOL.
Interesting experiment buddy. Like it. My lack of an ear could also be due to using too much steam!!! I do about 20 sprays. Next time, I'll try upto 10. Thanks and I hope your hand heals quickly
Please help because I'm about to remove Samson's eyes and start from scratch on a new starter using your last video of creating a starter to rule them all. Great vídeos. Love how much science you put into each recipe and technique. I wish science was this fun when I was in school because I would've paid attention and got straight As.
Thanks! In general keeping a starter at a higher hydration seems to be my favorite way currently. It's much easier.
Next thin to experiment with are sourdough croissants. Also, different flours and combinations of flours.
If you season your dutch oven well, it won't stick even with the ice cube. I do it every time and it works really well
such a great scientific video. much appreciate the efforts!
I've found maintenance seasoning the Dutch oven eliminates sticking for me. I use flax seed oil or frisbee pick whichever is handy.
Yup! Same here. except when I have the ice cube, there is simply too much water.
The big holes might not be coming from how tight you are shaping, but if you are trapping a pocket of air in the process. Think of how you lay down tape to avoid bubbles-you want contact to be continuous. Especially if you shape by folding then rolling, the inside surface of the roll is uneven.
Not scoring is still better than not adding a salt :)
i was sad today but your video made me smile again!
I would say with more steam the heat hits the bread earlyer which makes the gel hardens faster?
Btw, i like that the videoa's are now shorter, although the longer ones are really interesting all the time , but it cost too much time ;-)
Thank you for your enthousiasm and great experiments.
Thanks! In general I like to add chapters as well. That way you can always skip to the parts that interest you the most :-)
Ouch that burn... 😓 Yeah i dont trust fabric oven mitts because it can soak hot liquids. I have Geekhom oven mitts from amazon. Silicon exterior with fabric inside so its never slippy, and it has fingers which i think is important when manipulating cast irons. Really good buy. Great video btw!
Hey, great videos.
Where do you buy the glasses that cover the sourdough and creating the steam?
Hi, I love all your experiments. Have your ever tried using baking soda in the recipe? There are several blogs that mention that adding baking soda just before shaping helps create a lighter, more airy crumb.
You could put the ice cubes in a little tray made of aluminum foil, that way the foil will contain the water and the bread won't get wet and stick to the dutch oven.
Yup. That works. Then however the steam release is also much slower :-D. But it could be worth a try.
I purchased the tiniest cast-iron frypan I could find and I put it in the Challenger while it’s preheating. I put my ice cube in the little frypan. My 500 g loaf fits in there just fine although it does expand into the little frypan a little bit but not much. I get huge and I mean huge oven spring. Your loaves look under proofed to me.
U could use some slightly humid cloth or cleaning paper underneath your cutting board to minimize the risk of an accident...aswell try to change the material of your gloves or try some silicon equipment for hi heat.
Really like your scientific research, it has helped me improve a lot!
Big thanks!
Gluten tag. Glad we reached the same conclusion about the too big ice.
Can you please show us a video or short on how you score the bread? I never know how deep I should go.
Thanks! A shallow cut is going to be enough if your dough has been nicely inflated :-). I have it on my list of videos. Thank you!
Hello again. I don't have a challenger pan so when I do a batard I use a set up similar to Kristen's from Full Proof Baking. Now today i made 2 loaves as a test, 1 was a batard in that method and the other a Boule in my ducth oven. Now, I always weigh my dough when it comes out of the oven and for the next couple hours to see how much moisture I can lose to lighten up the bread. When I shaped the 2 loaves last night they were within a couple grams of each other so I baked them today 1 in the dutch oven and 1 on the stone with the cover. When I weighed them after baking the Boule was 13 grams heavier than the Batard. My goal is to have a lighter loaf but it seems the dutch oven holds in too much moisture. Both were baked at about 480 F lowering the oven to about 450 after 20 minutes. They finish baking uncovered for about 22 minutes. Do you weigh your loaves? Do you find them to be "light" or a little heavier than you would like. My crumb is generally good. Not super open but not dense at all. I may leave the loaves in the oven while it cools just to extract some more moisture but the crumb is moist and has a really nice texture. You can dip it or you can make a sandwich with it. These loaves were 425 grams of flour with about a 71% hydration. That is pretty much my regular bakers %.
Thanks for any input. Hope all is well.
Your dough 1st time around appeared to be too cold. Straight from the fridge? There was moisture on the banneton liner and a clearly moisture on the skin of the dough. When baking cookies we sometimes put the raw dough cookies in the fridge for a period of time before baking. This is so they don’t spread out and control shape during baking. I believe this is what happened here. I would have let the dough come to room temperature in another dry basket.
Go for some hot mill gloves. Used in the forging industry. I'm a blacksmith so they come in handy when hit punching and decorative work. Generally when your hands get near any hot metal.
I have a commercial formula for rye bread and it specifies start at 500f with 2-3 seconds of steam, after ten minutes open the damper and reduce temperature to 390f.
I was quite suprised by the 2-3 seconds part, although a commercial oven will retain much of the steam for the remaining 10 minutes as the bread will also add some steam of its own.
I like how you show mistakes and triumphs.
Bread Code: Giving many loafs to friends
Friends: "So you've been experimenting again, right?" xD
🤣 100%. "Oh what happened with your oven spring? Did something go wrong? 🤣"
I wish I lived near enough for him to donate one of his loaves to me !!!!
I was also wondering who eats all this bread 🤨
Welding gloves. Best so far for me (in US): WZQH 16 Inches,932℉,Leather Forge Welding Gloves
I bought a pair of these gloves that you recommended in another of your videos. I noticed that the gloves protected more when handling the dry dutch oven. When removing the lid after the first bake, I also noted that more heat was transfered through the gloves because of the steam from the baking process. Your warning here is appreciated.
Preshaping into final shaping kind of prevents those thicc holes. Ive been doing it lately to get better vertical oven spring in higher hydrations 🤫
100%
I had a bad burn from dumping hot water out of a pasta pot. I was given some silicon mittens which are awkward, but they prevent burns. Try a pair.
Just a thought on your pH-studies: I too think that the pH-Level can be an indicator for the grade of fermentation. You have to keep in mind, though, the the pH-level is a concentration value. It measures the concentration of H3O+-ions in solution. In other words, the level of hydration of the bread will affect the pH-level. With the same amount of acidic ions, but with more water present, the concentration will decrease. (pH-value will increase) On the other hand, we already learned in another video of yours that a higher amount of water might also increase the growth of bacteria in the starter, thus the fermentation. Again resulting in a higher acidity. So all in all I assume, that the pH-level for the 'perfect stage of fermentation' is depending on the hydration of the dough.
100%. Great comment. I would never suggest a pH value that works for every dough. It also depends a lot on the flour. The more gluten, the longer you can ferment, the lower you can go with the pH. Also the temperature has a major impact on the pH meter and will show different readings.
I disagree with the hydration comment. pH is a log scale (-log10(H+)) but hydration is a linear scale. If you double the water content (going from bagel (50%) to the edge of free form loaves (100%) ) pH will only change by 0.3, and from his experiments, his loaves can be baked from 4.1 to 3.95. Plus, the poke test is completely free to double check.
@@qwerty11111122 I can see your point there and I think you are right on most cases. You just need to keep in mind that a decrease in 0.3 pH still means that the dough is three times as sour. I have the (very subjective) opinion, that there is a very thin line between 'perfect' and 'over fermentation'. Many a dough of mine -suddenly- turned from a beautiful loaf to a gooey pile of mess that had to be baked in the box shape. (Which made me sad)
@@madisbacks1945 You use a pH meter too? Huh, I'd expect 0.3 to make it only 2x as sour, given 0.3 pH is a difference of a power of 2
Use the silicone side of the glove to grip. You can also use a thinner inner lining to give you more protection.
Gluten tag. Your videos are always informative. Thank you. I recently watched an Italian video baking bread. There they baked with the oven door slightly open for the first 15 minutes, then closed for the remainder. No water bath, no Dutch oven. I am used to Dutch oven baking or the pizza stone/water tray method but I tried their method and am very impressed with the results. I like the crust. Being an engineer maybe you can explain the theory behind this method 😁
Interesting idea. I don't know. I can't imagine how that could work. LOL.
@@the_bread_code Leaving the door slightly open forces the thermostat to fire oven heating elements constantly, resulting in more radiant heating. This is similar to having hot red coals in a wood oven, as opposed to firing the oven then removing the coals before baking.
I love that you show us your mistakes! As fun as mistakes are (hehehe), we can all learn from them :)
That pan is designed to produce adequate steam on its own. No extra ice is necessary 😜. That shiny crust is typical of too much steam. If you transfer heat too fast, the surface temperature is beginning to cure before the dough has a chance to spring. I think your pockets are from under fermented, poorly shaped loaves.
Use a spray bottle.
Could you measure the height of your loaves with a ruler so we can compare our results to yours? Thanks;
Great idea! I'll keep that in mind :-)
Also need to know mass of dough in grams and banneton size and hydration! You have a great advantage with having such great high protein flour!
I think there is another variable that is coming into play. As you increase the size of the ice cube to get more steam you are also reducing the temperature of the inside of the dutch oven. We know temperature plays a vital role in oven spring so I wonder if that is playing a part. Also, I wonder if the excessive blisters are a result of the moist environment created by the ice cube. When I bake, I notice larger blisters on dough I spray with water before baking compared to dough I don't spray. I love your experiments but I think the variability of the changing temperature and the wet environment may result in an inconclusive result when it comes to too much or not enough steam. Thoughts?
BlueFire gloves are amazing! Not through Amazon though. Got to get it from their original website.
Thank you for all your great videos. I’ve learned so much in a short time, 5 average sourdoughs loaves… 6th sourdough bread was awesome and I’m very happy today. I used 2 small ice cubes 7g each and a cast iron bread pan, almost identical to the Jim Challenger pan. It works the same way. I’m sorry you kissed your finger to the heat, it looks painful. I have a tip for all of you who have done this on the oven, bread pan, wood fire box heater, or coffee machine. I’m in Australia and there is a cream invented by a man here that takes a burn like yours from just done to completely healed in 3-5 hours with no peeling, pain, or scaring. I would be lost with out it and I keep it in the kitchen at the ready. The man who invented this cream demonstrated it’s worth on a current affairs news program, by putting his thumb into a deep fryer for 3 or 4 seconds, then plunging it into the pure extract that’s in the cream. The reporter did it too and in less than a minute later, both their thumbs were perfectly fine. It’s called… Mc Arthur Natural Products complete skincare cream. It’s made in Australia and I buy it and have used it for about 9 years now. I hope it’s okay to mention this, I do it to save your fingers. Karen ☺️💜
Gluten tag Herr Doktor Dough. YT had not allowed me to comment for a month, but I'm back. Thanks for the video.
Welcome back 🙏🏻
The gloves sold by Challenger work great 👍
Die mit Abstand besten & sichersten Grill & Ofen Handschuhe die ich bisher hatte sind Schweißerhandschuhe. Ich bin seit Jahren sehr zufrieden mit uvex top grade 7200. Härtetest mit rot glühender Kohle über mehr als eine Minute mit Bravour bestanden. Nur ein bisschen lauwarm an der Innenseite.
Danke!
Hi, from my heating background too much steam will create back pressure as a pressure cooker does and this may prevent the lift you are looking for my wife always leaves a little space when steam-cooking Indian food. only an observation from me, was looking for a steam oven and your video came as recommended.
Dont know the thermodynamics of it all but large ice cubes in a challenger-like pan has produced good loaves for me. Dark bordering orange crusts, good rises. 250c 45min preheat, then the standard bake.
have you thought about putting ice cube in a small metal container? that way you dont have excess water running on the bottom of the dutch oven..
I laminate the dough and do coil folds right until shaping in order to get an more even crumb. Usually I learn from you, but maybe it helps😀
Yep. This, or preshaping and tight shaping will help.
I use the same oven globe from Amazon and I almost burnt my hand as well. Ikea works much better. Please share if you find the better globes perhaps with the separate finger parts..
Having failed many experiments myself due to methodological problems, I have to say that I got a small amount of perverse pleasure your video. I would have liked to have seen a third condition....that of NO ICE. You've said that having the oven temperature too hot hurts oven spring but you also said that increasing the steam level applies more hot temperature...so I wondered about whether or not no ice would simply be best.
😂 thanks. Already done in the past 👍
Thank you for this awesome informative video. I just have one question, how do we put an ice cube in a Lodge style Dutch oven?
Thanks! Yep. If it fits, then definitely do that.
Okay thanks!! :)
Great experiments. Really made me feel better about my failed bakes.. :) I feel that this experiment is only relevant if you have challenger pan. You can’t really put an ice cube in round cast iron pot (unless you have really big one) or if you use baking stone or steel as steam wont be trapped like it is in the pan.
Great comment. You can also just use a large pot. No need to invest in the pan. It will have similar results. Hack like that upcoming in my next video 😎
@@the_bread_code I gave up on pans and pots, just use baking stone or baking steel. Especially that I want to bake more than one loaf at the time to be more energy efficient. Up to four at the time with two baking steels in the oven.
@@the_bread_code I tried putting an ice cube on the baking pan with the bread. It made the bottom of my bread soggy wet :( Probably I put too many ice cubes LOL (2-3, maybe overkill). 😂
@@hattorizen try using the parchment paper and putting the ice in the corner between the pan and the parchment paper
@@davidkeefe9468 I always use parchment paper. Perhaps I need to keep the ice cube somewhat "below" the parchment paper? Anyway, I still haven't achieved that elusive ear 🤣 Taste is always on point though.
You need heavy duty leather welding gloves. They're the bomb!
Hello Mr. Breadman, forgive me but I don't know your name. I have been obsessed with making the pizza 🍕 and recently started baking bread. Created a starter about a month old named Samson because it's super strong with activity but my last bread I had no rise at all. I took the dough in the fridge straight to the oven. *Am I supposed to wait for the dough to get at room temperature after removing from the fridge BEFORE placing in the oven?*
Place it directly in the oven from your fridge :-). Try leaving it at room temperature for at least an hour before moving it to the fridge initially.
Im not an engineer versed in steam - however isn't steam in an enclosed space providing pressure (eg: pushing a piston like in a steam engine)? Would the increase in steam from the bigger cube be producing more pressure in the dutch oven?
Yep. In this case not however as the dutch oven is not fully sealed. I doubt there is a lot of pressure inside. Although it would be interesting to measure.
When do u make the vid with ph information as i just bought one
Did you make all that bread in one week? I hope you have friends that like bread.
Haha. Yep. All of it in 1 week. At some point all the neighbours had enough bread to eat.
German people love bread. Don't worry. 🤣
Wenn Du schon in Harburg wohnst, kannst Du vielleicht mal eine Bäckereitour im Cafè Lindtner machen? Die Bäcker dort haben wahrscheinlich auch gute Tips für Ofenhandschuhe.
:-D cool. Das wusste ich garnicht. Ich wohne direkt nebenan.
Do you have already a video about cutting (score?) bevor baking? I have such a problem with cutting, my bread ripps out by baking... i want this beautiful corn thing on the surface. 🥰
I took a note, hopefully soon!
Wow, that was a lot of work on your part as well as a lot of fun. But, in the end, I think I am more uncertain than ever before. Maybe you found the right heat level but with the addition of the cubes it may lower it too much. What about spritzing and the ice cube? What if you did 4, 80 gram ice cubes? I think you should go more extreme to prove or disprove the point. Thank you!
Great idea Scott :-D. I will try that!
Wet gloves...definitely burn danger! I have done that. I suggest using Avene after sun...apply immediately and wow...fingers saved
Can we just take it as this, if we r using 20% starter, the bulking finishes at PH of 4.3 ?
Try more around 4.5 :-). 4.3 is already relatively low, my flour is very strong, it can take more gluten degradation :-)
Check out lanon pro gloves. Looks promising to protect the fingies
Your gloves seem to be made with some kind of fabric, once fabric gets wet it will transfer heat. You could give silicon gloves a try, they don't absorb water.
I have a question about bread baking. Could it be that when doing an autolisis, if the water is hot, it could ruin the process?
The process will definitely be faster!
Yes, if its too hot you can kill your bacterias!
@@user-zv1jr6wf2h thx, I think that's why my autolisis didn't work and my dough was falling apart
Great experiment - I have found using too much steam with no dutch oven (dough sat on oven tray) makes the bread too 'damp' inside - when I cut into my last loaf it was almost wet and not gummy but a bit wet / chewy from the absorption of the moisture. Makes a nice crust but the inside is not dry enough. Or maybe I cut into it too soon after baking? (Left 1-2 hours) Does anyone else experience this?
Bread Code is my GoTo site for sourdough technique. Sadly, you're so right about Amazon.
My question: I do like your Dutch Oven for its shape and its practical handles. Please, who makes it?
It is called the Challenger Bread Pan made by Jim Challenger. If you want, watch this video which I found utterly entertaining as well as informative:
th-cam.com/video/LJjhyTDP474/w-d-xo.html
Thanks Laurie :-). Yep. That's Jim.
Thank you for the link. I ordered mine yesterday
Amazingly, the Challenger was delivered to me in the UK within five days of my order. I'd expected much longer (smile)
Hi Hendrik, I bought the same pH meter even if it is quite expensive. Alternatively, I could buy two year's worth of supermarket bread. But then the thought of eating supermarket bread for two years made me get the meter instead. I did notice in the video that you didn't have recommended storage solution in the cap of your meter. In the manual, the manufacturer warns not to store this spear type meter without the storage solution, because it may be permanently damaged if you do. I'm not sure about it, do you have any thoughts on this?
BTW love the video, and looking forward to the pH proofing test. Also I have the blisters now, but also the large holes in the crumb. A mouse could live in some of my breads. I'll be following your channel closely!
Oh. I make sure there is always storage solution left in the cap. It might not be visible in the video. I just refreshed it today :-). Regarding the other problem, tight preshaping and shaping will help in that regard!
@@the_bread_code I think I preshaped tightly, maybe three times. Before I underfermented, my crumb was way tighter, I didn't have the blisters but neither did I have so many large are pockets inside. Maybe I should have fermented for even longer but I kind keep running out of time because it takes about the whole day including getting the levain ready from the early morning until shaping late night to start cold ferment in the fridge. The pH meter will help to make sure.
Just made a dough. in over 8 hours it went from pH 5.9 to 4.7. Then in just 10 minutes it went from 4.7 to 4.3. I had to hurry to put it in the benneton. I didn't shape at all, but I used the Joyride coffee hack to fold it once and then varied this technique by putting it in the benneton and directly to the fridge. I hope to have no large air pockets but that is the experiment. The pH meter helped a lot, I measured many times and was just in time to cut the bulk fermentation. This is soooo cooool.
I always take away the steam after 20 minutes not 25. May be worth a test? When you should open the lid/remove the steam exactly?
20 minutes. Lid comes off for me too
I'd say it doesn't matter that much. With 20 minutes you will have a thicker crust in the end. It depends on what you prefer :-)
I get very even crumb after machine kneading. Not doing any folds, as the initial kneeding is more than enough. Followed by nice shaping, you get a loaf with very even crumb.
Great tip. Thanks!
Hi. So you do only machine kneading? No lamination either?
I am wondering what would happen if you used the large ice cube with higher temperature.
Yep. Interesting idea.
Do we leave the steam (tray with ice/water) in the whole baking process?
Yes!
Lots to think about when baking sourdough. so many variables leads to tons of fun videos. Thanks for the great content. btw whats the pH that you end bulk fermentation these days?
Around 4.2-4.5. Depends on how sour I like the bread to be :-)
When comparing 2 loaves take height/width measurements at the centre and use the ratio to compare oven spring. Gives you an objective rather than subjective comparison
Bigger cube should take down the overall temperature in the oven? May be you could measure the temperature of the loaf?
Great idea!
I measured 94,5 C after 20 minutes in the loaf. The loaf weigh roughly 700g.
I’m baking like you with 230 C in a normal oven. I have a thick stone and boiling water reservoir under the stone. The baking plate is covering the loaf on the top to avoid overheating from the heating wire. Oven spring is similar to your results I would guess.
Technology is moving along. There are now low cost countertop convection ovens with programmable steam, such as the Xiaomi 30L Smart Steam Oven which can be bought for as little as USD 118. So now, the baker can program the oven for steam at 95 C for 15 minutes followed by baking at 220 C for 20 minutes, for example. So, it's no longer necessary to approximate a professional steam over with ice cubes in a dutch oven. Should give better and more consistent results.
The Xiaomi oven does require 220 V power however.
It would be interesting if you were to evaluate an oven of this type.
I usually get a lack of ear like your first two loafs and I'm still wondering why!
I don't know nothing about steaming the bread when you bake it but I know that steaming has become my absolute favorite way to reheat just about any and all bread. I can't get enough of steamed bread! =(
What brand of gloves do you have? Brovn has gloves on their website. Probably similar though. Heat resistant up to 300 C but again, never use when wet. Ouch. Thanks for the investigative video! (It’s always helpful!)
Thanks! Yep - unfortunately they also only lasted a few months for me 🤣
Hi TBC. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experiments with us. Two things:
1) The absolute best thing you can do when you get burned is rub (yes rub, not just place on top) some mint flavored tooth paste on it. It will take away the pain very fast and help the burn not develop into gigantic blisters. I recomend you have small one in the kitchen.
2) I have a desperate question that no one has answered for me and I am ignored every time I ask it. I think no one really knows and they are ashamed to say so? But why is it important to maintain and feed your starter with a set ratio? Sometimes I walk in the kitchen and think I want to bake a new loaf. My starter has reached peek point and started deflating. I just add a large tablespoon of my flour mixture that I use for feeding it, and two hours later it is happy as can be! I bake with it, and the loaf turns out pretty well if I may say so... so why? Is there a scientific reason for this? If you can answer, I'd be very thankful. Because if not doing this improves my loaves... I'll forgo the liberty of time my system gives me. Thanks!
I would like to know also!
My understanding is you use a set ratio of flour and water to maintain a starter at a known hydration. That way, you don't have to constantly adjust your bread recipes to account for variations in starter hydration.
Another benefit of using a set ratio for flour and water is that is maintains a consistent fermentation environment for your culture, which leads to more consistent culture behavior. If the flour and water ratio is constantly varying, the concentration of yeast is also constantly varied, which can lead to variations in bulk fermentation rates and loaf rise times.
Obviously none of these things are a huge deal breaker and your starter will still produce delicious bread. You might notice that a lot of these things are more important to professional bakers or those who bake sourdough regularly, but are less important for the home baker that only makes the weekly loaf.
@@theKashConnoisseur The amount of starter in my opinion is minimal to the rest of the ingredients. In my case a home baker... I truly don't see much difference when taking the hydration of the starter in mind. I do understand the logid tho.... but in my case, it has not impacted my resuls at all! Thank you for answering.
I use good ol' heavy leather campfire gloves with extra insulation in the. I could grab burning logs for about a min before I began to feel significant heat. I'd go with heavy leather gloves with extra insulation in the middle.
Also, check out the wire monkey and compare it to a regular lame.
The big holes have nothing to do with the steam, rather it’s a sign of poor mixing or fermentation. Also if you use the bannetons you have to add extra flour to prevent the bread from sticking, and that raw flour eats all of your steam. Also in the bannetons I’m not sure if you perform the required dough foldings.
Try this: improve your mxing and fermentation, fold twice your dough, once every hour of bulk fermentation, don’t use the bannetons, and if you absolutely want to use steam do so outside that dutch oven and let the steam completely out the oven after 20 minutes max.
If you have a lot of steam trapped in the container, the bread doesn’t have to create steam, thus larger holes?
Disses amazon reviews, uses amazon affiliate links... amazon is broken because it kills small independent businesses. Bezos needs no more money. Just saying. I love your videos by the way
Tip: It wont stick to the Dutch oven if you use rice flower in proofing basket and you sprinkle a little extra Rice flower over the top before you transfer to the Dutch oven. No parchment needed. I make 6 breads a week in my Combo Cooker (cast iron dutch oven). It has never gotten stuck yet.
Also riche flower has a nice smell, flavor and look to it on the bread.
Insane blisters 😂
I once thought it would be a good idea to pour in a little water into my dutch oven to make more steam. I got an extremely slow rise, and after the crust was fully formed on top, the bottom was still uncooked dough. so I wouldn't recommend it.
My thoughts on this (1) I asked you the question about the possibility of too much steam a while ago and you replied that too much was impossible, what else was a lie?! :)
(2) I have been experimenting with this myself and came to the conclusion that you can indeed have too much steam. The results ended up looking rather like a dough that had more hydration than my flour could really handle, and it actually impaired the formation of the ear. The outer surface of the dough does need to have enough humidity to stop it from hardening too fast and preventing the rest of the dough from rising fully, but it also needs to be able to dry out enough to start curling back away from the dough as the interior expands. Now that I have narrowed down the proper hydration for the flour that I have access to, more or less, I spray a lot less water than I used to in the dutch oven and the ear formation is much improved.
Thanks! I also need to repeat this with different temperatures again, with hotter temperatures the air can absorb a lot more of the water. So many parameters 🤓
You've likely figured it out by now, but you may have gotten burned by the moisture in the glove. Fabric is very good at stopping heat transfer, but water is much much better at transfering heat. So if your glove gets wet, it's useless. I just use entirely silicone oven mitts. It's overkill, but super easy to clean, more resistant to heat in my opinion, and completely fine with getting wet
How about you spray the dough with water before closing the dutch oven instead of the ice cube
That's what I typically do :-). It's my go to method.
Listening to you laugh after realizing you forgot to score the loaf would definitely indicate that some sort of alcoholic beverage(s) was involved lol