Dirty boxing is like the “jazz” of boxing: a little more gritty, unconventional, sometimes improvised, but looks smooth when mastered. Just like jazz however, you have to learn the rules to have the knowledge and liberty to “bend” the rules
I love this idea that dirty boxing is like the jazz music. But I'd say it's more like the Jello Pudding Pop. No, actually, it’s more like Kodak film. No, actually, dirty boxing is like the New Coke: it’ll be around forever.
@@hard2hurt cool to see you use classic wing chun mike. Contrary to popular belief wing chun and boxing especially dorty boxing not sport boxing are very similar and share many techniques same as most martial arts. All martial arts are just circles and lines
I learned a lot of guard manipulation from watching George Forman fights from the 70s. In my experience once your opponent feels there guard moved once they stiffen up when you touch their gloves. You can get a free shot once in a sparring session, so you'd better make it count.
Lomochenko does alot of hand trapping , I use this a lot hit them with a double jab cross or hit them a few times to establish respect for my power to get their guard up , I stand southpaw and use my jab hand to pull down their left while throwing my cross
Ramsey Dewey actually did that last one years ago. He'd do it up against the ropes and bend the fool back over the ropes before ripping to the body. I didn't think of doing it in space, still works. Good stuff 👍
I've been doing those in my game since I was 14 years old, I'm 52 now and teach those techniques to every kid I've ever coached. Works every time in the cover, particularly when they're on the ropes and being overwhelmed. A craft boxer will set you up with a counter if you aren't watching yourself. Excellent video!!!
Personally, I loved this video because I’ve been doing this stuff for about a year and a half. I don’t think it’s very dirty but rather just a way to find openings
@@hard2hurt well I learned it mostly from my coach John lee chalbeck, most of my sparring partners haven’t been very upset with me about it but we are all pretty competitive. I have had some guys become upset with me but not many because I’m not super rough with most people in sparring even though I use these techniques a lot.
This is great because I am a boxing beginner and have been frustrated trying to find openings. I’m definitely going to try these! Thank you for the video!
@@mattdowds8505 trained with a king fu practitioner. Learned a lot from him. However there aren’t as many effective punches and kicks, they’re super flashy. However… it’s not like it’s ineffective, I’d just say…. Less effective.
In open stance i find the front hand parry-jab combo works well, at least against all the low-mid level folks at muay thai (who don't know much about hand trapping). I also do the forearm jam-body shot combo a lot too, though i probably leave myself way too open.
My favorite one is throw the jab past my opponents guard (to his left) then turn my jab hand to a thumbs down position then hook the fingers around the opponent left wrist. Pulling down the guard then hitting with the straight right. Sometimes this requires a bit of a step out with the right leg to get the angle right
I love the jab, swipe guard down then hook bc it is really unexpected to have your guard up and feel safe to it no longer being there. It gives them a panic for a moment usually causing them to go back to the basics
More emphasis in body work! Pinning the guard high - bodyshot. Drag hand low - he resets high - go bodyshot. Put in the bodywork and the head WILL reveal itself. Edit* it's not dirty, it's technical know-how.
The last part of the video is the most important part. Some practitioners don't like to explore what's possible and it hinders them from learning. Mike said it best: "You're trying to break my nose." I have to do everything possible to prevent that from happening.
One guard manipulation I like to do against tight guard is to push them to the side at temple hight with footwork and rotation like a hook, which loads me for a nice body hook or lowkick, or even an arm hook to the head if that opens up. It breaks the oponents posture and loads them onto the leg I would want to kick, and the instinct reaction to that shove is to move the hands to where I pushed, which opens the body on the opposite side. Also limits their vision. You can do this pretty light too while being logical, so no hurting your sparring partner.
It has always amazed me how most people never think of this My dad started teaching me MA when I was a kid and he always did this kind of stuff, also feet stomping and that stuff
This is one application where the backfist works. I use it as the lead in for a trap over w/same hand followed by a straight punch w/the other hand to the head. the torque generated by the second hand coming forward helps move the guard out of the way if its done properly. Its backfist, trap, punch. My original karate instructor was great at what you call the dirty boxing.
I love this too. For example throw a stiff 1-2 to raise their guard. Then a 1-hanging 2 to pull their lead hand down, throw that hand down like a lever, lean your hip back get your head off center line to the left and throw that right head kick.
Dude! We do this! All of this! I call it Harassing the guard with push, pull and punch. That last one with the bar arm, If they lower the guard when you hit low we go high with powerful overhand. We also punch on the way in to the barring arm. Great stuff!
6:26, that's one of my favourite techniques, I used my lead hand to control their guard, and my rear hand to fire off a hook to the body, followed up with another uppercut to the jaw when their guard opens up.
I do a somewhat sneaky one while we’re just moving. I fight orthodox so I’ll reach out with my right hand & do kind of a pull down parry on their left hand. Then roll an overhand right off of it. The only thing is you have to move your head off the centerline while doing the punch to avoid them rolling their left hook over the pull or throwing a cross. This works much better with MMA gloves but can be used with boxing gloves.
I think of "dirty boxing" as a principal of striking which, in some rule sets, flirts with legality or may not be legal at all. It's based on the idea of grappling with the opponent just enough to make openings for strikes, and to keep them from escaping. I wouldn't really call it unsportsmanlike, though it may be considered ungentlemanly by a lot of people.
Isnt it crazy that people still call it a "gentleman's sport" when you're basically looking to either cause or get yourself a brain injury. It astounds me what people consider ungentlemanly in a sport where you're literally trying to knock somome on thier ass or out cold.
@@QSP-OG I think it's a holdover from a previous age where gentlemen would duel each other under a set of rules with the goal of preserving their honor. Skirting the rules, but not technically breaking them, in order to win was seen as dishonorable. Not sure if I'm right about that but, historically, it was the wealthy gentry who regularly practiced martial arts, and engaged in formal honor duels. Lower classes would just scrap in the streets. Also, back in the day, boxing was done bare knuckled and it was a contest of skill, not strength, and punching someone in the head bare knuckled hurts and risks injuring your hands, so winning by knockout was pretty uncommon.
Same here. I can now use my front leg(better). And I never would have heard of the superboy, gazelle, Bazaro, etc The work out videos are awesome too, made my crunch better. But I need the goofy videos just as much!
When the jab and tight guard (hands to the face) was first invented it was seen as underhanded and cowardly. Any way you can make the fight more unfair, within the rules of whatever context you’re in, is good.
Lomachenko uses that stuff. I like doing it a few times and when they get used to me pulling the hand down i switch up the shot to a bodyshot cuz they always pull the guard back up high.
I did not see these moves as “dirty” boxing, but rather good counters for the shell-up guard. Once some someone shells-up, you cannot be expected to just stand there until they feel like coming out to fight again. Not using moves like this to break the shell only encourages shelling-up tactics. Great video.
Boxing rules include no backfists, open hand slaps, striking with the wrist (bone), or hammer fist strikes. So the one you use to strike down to open up the hook would be illegal if you were just boxing. Thanks for the video!
I was once in muay thai sparring as beginner with another beginner and as southpaw I was trapping his hand with my lead hand a lot and he got angry and said I was cheating haha
Cool concepts and stuff I saw local kickboxing fight and some guy covered his opponents face with the glove then ripped a uppercut to the body it was so cool
XXX rated boxing. Coincidentally I taught some of this last night to my boxers. I like the idea of punching the arm from the inside to open up the face.
"he can't move his hands without giving you information on what he intends to do" -- excellent encapsulation of Wing Chun chi sao (sticky hands) concept. I think of the "dirty" in "dirty boxing" the same way I think of it in "dirty rice." Not that its immoral or whatever, but that there's a little something extra in the mix, something spicier than what people usually think of. Alternatively, I'd call "dirty boxing" shorthand for striking styles that are intended for bareknuckle, close-quarters, no rules applications and consequently include techniques (such as grabbing, clinching, trapping, elbows, vitals strikes, etc.) that are not included in the sport boxing ruleset. Dirty boxing styles include Wing Chun, 52 Blocks, Panantukan, Fairbairn-Sykes combatives, Irish/English "fisticuffs", etc.
I have actually seen that forearm strike against someone's guard used in Shaolin Kung Fu, it is known as "hei hu Tao shin" or "black tiger steals the heart" (and btw yes, I know it's used in other styles idfc) and from what I have seen it is usually applied as you showed in this video where you place your forearm laterally against someone's guard and then deliver strikes with your other hand to the chest or the lower body, this was actually very interesting to see
For me personally what I would do as a southpaw is step outside and deliver right overhand. If it hits great. If he blocks it the only way he can do it is by moving his hand to the side which than opens his guard in the middle. Then while attacking him to the middle I would use vertical fist instead of usual horizontal so there is a better chance for it go through between his guard as he tries to get it back into the middle. than if he manages to block this again repeat the whole process and eventually something will get through.
There is exceptions with utilizing the high guard though if you can utilize it with head movement and footwork or just using it for counters. Petr Yan in the UFC uses a high guard a lot, mostly to study his opponents but also to effectively counter fast. Canelo also uses a sort of high guard so he can let his opponent throw a bit and time a counter perfectly. The reason guys like them can use the high guard effectively is because like I said they mix in head movement and foot work so they're not just stationary letting their opponent completely tee off on them. There's also times Lomachenko uses it as well but will counter and use footwork to get off the center line. Using a high guard isn't a "stupid" guard, it can be used effectively rather than having your hands down and trying to counter in a Roy Jones esque way because you can easily get fooled by a feint and walk right into a solid shot. High guard allows to effectively counter without a chance of getting caught clean because you can time counters better.
I like to combine this with a long guard for boxing, I keep a very active very forward lead hand, sometimes just tapping the opponents glove/guard to desensitise them to my lead hand, then i’ll quickly pull down the hand to land a right cross or hook
Loma and Tyson Fury use these techniques and more. Basically they are "legal" because you can bump and shove the gloves as long as you are not holding the arms.
Maybe in boxing competitions it's not something you "should" do, but guard and arm trapping are very useful by other standards like self defence. I don't see it like something bad, but it's not nice. Let's leave it in that If it can be done, it can be avoided too.
It is DEFINITELY something you SHOULD DO. Especially when almost ALL of the all time greats do it as well as the best guys in the modern era. Mayweather, Andre Ward, Lomachenko, and even up and coming young champs like Shakur Stevenson use it. Roberto Duran was a master at it back in the 70s and 80s. Sandy Saddler, Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, and many others during the 40s, 50s era. Jack Johnson, Sam Langford, and Joe Gans who had styles that were VERY heavy on clinch fighting and trapping in the early 1910s close to the bare knuckle era.
Funny how it has become a meme that "trapping doesn't work" yet you can see countless examples of it working even with huge boxing gloves on where you can't even properly use your hands for grappling. So that alone confirms it would be even more effective barehanded. People just see the trapping flow drills and don't understand that those are DRILLS, and when actually applied in a fight you would only do one quick hand trap at a time just like you've demonstrated here to create openings for your boxing.
On the whooop one where u stuff his hands with your forearm, your opponent can just sidestep turn out of that (towards your elbow) and throw a straighthook (a weird almost straight like hook) if they don’t panic anyways. Its only guaranteed if you have someone against ropes.
Hah, that's a fun video for me to watch, because many of the things you show here and in "Dirty Boxing Tricks to Frustrate and Tire Your Opponent" video is *exactly* what we do in a martial art that I'm training: yiquan (which I often jokingly say is the most hipster martial art ever, because you probably never heard about it). You can influence the guard in similar way also when the opponent is striking (specifically, starting a strike), as this is the moment when they do become stiff for a brief time, that includes turning them like you've shown in your "dirty boxing tricks" video, pulling them while redirecting (parrying?) the blow, in rare cases also pushing them. Not that it's easy, of course. Basically influencing the guard (that is opening the guard, pushing/pulling the guard) is practiced in "pushing hands" (tuishou) in a numer of traditional Chinese martial arts, although of course there are very few people that train that seriously enough to make it viable. Shame, really, but what can you do. The difference between what we do and what you show, however, is that we do those openings with our forearms, not fists/gloves. I guess you can try this someday when you'll be training with someone with MMA gloves. The secret is the angles really, you don't need to catch the arm or hook it in any way, just forearm to forearm contact can suffice. It's similar of how you went inside the guard on that other video to show that it's easier for you to punch in that situation, and harder for the enemy, because you can hinder his movements when he has the hands outside your guard. If the opponent has a stiff guard, you can unbalance them, if they're too soft, you can just create the opening in the guard, and while it is possible to defend from such movements, it is a rather specific thing, I'm not sure if anyone actually trains such things outside of yiquan.
Very good video. This is not dirty boxing. All of the things you showed are allowed to do in a ring according to the current boxing rules and should be taught broadly to students of the sweet science. Great masters from the past used techniques similar to the ones displayed in the video on a regular basis. The problem is that this knowledge got lost during the 80s. Nowadays referees are not familiar with them. When they see boxers trying to work out of the clinch or manipulate the guard, they usually call for a break, because that is much easier than having to supervise a fight happening at close range. In any case, I am glad that you explore the many possibilities boxing has to offer.
Blackie Chan with his Praised Gloves. 🙂 Then Rob and Seth out of nowhere ❤ That's a mat to be on! This was a cool one, I would love to see Blackie Chan on their channels, maybe more improvised weapons in a DollarGeneral, we love that! Like that movie _______. I can't remember.
My understanding is that "dirty boxing" doesn't mean dirty as in unfair, but just, not crisp clean perfect orthodox technique, and specifically any kind of clinching and handfighting.
Ok, I'm starting to think that you guys communicate by beat boxing when the cameras are off and English is just the language you use for us newbies. Is it dirty? Oh yeah, filthy, that's why we love it.
My understanding of dirty boxing is when a fighter will do things that are against the rules, such as rabbit punching, throwing an elbow in the clench, headbutting, kidney shots, low blows, etc., when the ref isn't looking. These techniques Icy Mike are showing are just smart boxing skills, I wouldn't label them as "dirty."
Dirty boxing is like the “jazz” of boxing: a little more gritty, unconventional, sometimes improvised, but looks smooth when mastered. Just like jazz however, you have to learn the rules to have the knowledge and liberty to “bend” the rules
Learn the rules, break the rules, make the rules.
I love this idea that dirty boxing is like the jazz music. But I'd say it's more like the Jello Pudding Pop. No, actually, it’s more like Kodak film. No, actually, dirty boxing is like the New Coke: it’ll be around forever.
Or dirty boxing is like the swear words of fighting. It’s considered rude, but technically you are free to use it.
Not a bad comparison.
@@hard2hurt cool to see you use classic wing chun mike. Contrary to popular belief wing chun and boxing especially dorty boxing not sport boxing are very similar and share many techniques same as most martial arts. All martial arts are just circles and lines
BLACKIE CHAN HAS RETURNED
As usual, Mike is the best Kung Fu teacher on TH-cam.
And the side kick is his best technique.
When I was younger I used to watch zna productions all the time. I'm so happy to see you wearing that hoodie
Cool they are still doing content together.💪🏽
I learned a lot of guard manipulation from watching George Forman fights from the 70s. In my experience once your opponent feels there guard moved once they stiffen up when you touch their gloves. You can get a free shot once in a sparring session, so you'd better make it count.
Watch archie mooore
Seth and Mike have the best chemistry, ever.
Lomochenko does alot of hand trapping , I use this a lot hit them with a double jab cross or hit them a few times to establish respect for my power to get their guard up , I stand southpaw and use my jab hand to pull down their left while throwing my cross
I did not see this comment before I made mine. But obviously I agree!
As a southpaw, hand fighting is drilled a lot more because of the abundance of opportunity. Well to a southpaw who knows how to fight anyway lol
nice, he does greco roman wrestling which is stand up clinch wrestling not allowed on the ground
Ramsey Dewey actually did that last one years ago. He'd do it up against the ropes and bend the fool back over the ropes before ripping to the body. I didn't think of doing it in space, still works. Good stuff 👍
I absolutely adore first career 70s Foreman. I have been trying to find stuff about handtraps and guard manipulation.
I've been doing those in my game since I was 14 years old, I'm 52 now and teach those techniques to every kid I've ever coached. Works every time in the cover, particularly when they're on the ropes and being overwhelmed. A craft boxer will set you up with a counter if you aren't watching yourself. Excellent video!!!
I'm also a huge fan of ZNA, this is genuinely cool to find out. Great video always fun to watch on my lunch break
Personally, I loved this video because I’ve been doing this stuff for about a year and a half. I don’t think it’s very dirty but rather just a way to find openings
How do your sparring partners feel?
@@hard2hurt well I learned it mostly from my coach John lee chalbeck, most of my sparring partners haven’t been very upset with me about it but we are all pretty competitive. I have had some guys become upset with me but not many because I’m not super rough with most people in sparring even though I use these techniques a lot.
Yoo Mike I've seen you in ZNA's comment section! Wicked to see you wearing his merch. Great vid, bro
This is great because I am a boxing beginner and have been frustrated trying to find openings. I’m definitely going to try these! Thank you for the video!
Hey this is what I was asking you about a while back. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us!
Starting @2:18 that entire over the shoulder bit. The camerawork and framing was top notch 👌 dynamic and fluid. Killin it.
I get a lot of my handtrapping and guard manipulation from Kung Fu, it's very effective & transfers over well to Kickboxing, boxing etc.
That’s like the only useful shit from kung fu
@@siegethompson3194 Yeah, because Kung Fu doesn't teach you to punch or kick at all.
@@mattdowds8505 Terrible punching and kicking form unless you do Sanda
@@mattdowds8505 trained with a king fu practitioner. Learned a lot from him. However there aren’t as many effective punches and kicks, they’re super flashy. However… it’s not like it’s ineffective, I’d just say…. Less effective.
@Zyan Pearsall Uhhhmmmm. Yes.
In open stance i find the front hand parry-jab combo works well, at least against all the low-mid level folks at muay thai (who don't know much about hand trapping). I also do the forearm jam-body shot combo a lot too, though i probably leave myself way too open.
My favorite one is throw the jab past my opponents guard (to his left) then turn my jab hand to a thumbs down position then hook the fingers around the opponent left wrist. Pulling down the guard then hitting with the straight right. Sometimes this requires a bit of a step out with the right leg to get the angle right
This is known as bong sao in wing chun anderson silva did this alot in his boxing match
I used some of this in my sparring earlier this week. Helped me out a lot, thank you!
If I ever get to make a fighting game, I'll just use Mike's supreme SFX sounds.
I see you out here supporting zna productions!! Good for you dude!
I love the jab, swipe guard down then hook bc it is really unexpected to have your guard up and feel safe to it no longer being there. It gives them a panic for a moment usually causing them to go back to the basics
Awesome to see Rob popping up in these vids
More emphasis in body work!
Pinning the guard high - bodyshot.
Drag hand low - he resets high - go bodyshot. Put in the bodywork and the head WILL reveal itself.
Edit* it's not dirty, it's technical know-how.
The last part of the video is the most important part. Some practitioners don't like to explore what's possible and it hinders them from learning. Mike said it best: "You're trying to break my nose." I have to do everything possible to prevent that from happening.
Glad to see Blackie Chan back on the hard2hurt channel
I learned a lot of these kind of techniques training krav maga
Used them in sambo and kickboxing.
Great content as always! Digging the ZNA productions hoodie 👌
One guard manipulation I like to do against tight guard is to push them to the side at temple hight with footwork and rotation like a hook, which loads me for a nice body hook or lowkick, or even an arm hook to the head if that opens up. It breaks the oponents posture and loads them onto the leg I would want to kick, and the instinct reaction to that shove is to move the hands to where I pushed, which opens the body on the opposite side. Also limits their vision. You can do this pretty light too while being logical, so no hurting your sparring partner.
It has always amazed me how most people never think of this
My dad started teaching me MA when I was a kid and he always did this kind of stuff, also feet stomping and that stuff
This is one application where the backfist works. I use it as the lead in for a trap over w/same hand followed by a straight punch w/the other hand to the head. the torque generated by the second hand coming forward helps move the guard out of the way if its done properly. Its backfist, trap, punch. My original karate instructor was great at what you call the dirty boxing.
I love pulling peoples hand down and throwing a headkick over the top
Seems like you would need a lot of flexibility and mobility
that really would be dirty in boxing
@@williamcardenas177 that’s why we stretch boyyy
I love this too. For example throw a stiff 1-2 to raise their guard. Then a 1-hanging 2 to pull their lead hand down, throw that hand down like a lever, lean your hip back get your head off center line to the left and throw that right head kick.
Dude! We do this! All of this! I call it Harassing the guard with push, pull and punch. That last one with the bar arm, If they lower the guard when you hit low we go high with powerful overhand. We also punch on the way in to the barring arm. Great stuff!
Yall call it dirty boxing but that guard manipulation stuff is lots of Wing Chun. Potato tomato.
IT'S MY MAIN MAN BLACKIE CHAN🤣🥳
Happy to see you on the channel again
6:26, that's one of my favourite techniques, I used my lead hand to control their guard, and my rear hand to fire off a hook to the body, followed up with another uppercut to the jaw when their guard opens up.
I do a somewhat sneaky one while we’re just moving. I fight orthodox so I’ll reach out with my right hand & do kind of a pull down parry on their left hand. Then roll an overhand right off of it. The only thing is you have to move your head off the centerline while doing the punch to avoid them rolling their left hook over the pull or throwing a cross. This works much better with MMA gloves but can be used with boxing gloves.
I LOVE YOUR ZNA PRODUCTION SWEATER, I LOVE IT, I WATCH HIM TOO!
I think of "dirty boxing" as a principal of striking which, in some rule sets, flirts with legality or may not be legal at all. It's based on the idea of grappling with the opponent just enough to make openings for strikes, and to keep them from escaping. I wouldn't really call it unsportsmanlike, though it may be considered ungentlemanly by a lot of people.
Isnt it crazy that people still call it a "gentleman's sport" when you're basically looking to either cause or get yourself a brain injury. It astounds me what people consider ungentlemanly in a sport where you're literally trying to knock somome on thier ass or out cold.
@@QSP-OG I think it's a holdover from a previous age where gentlemen would duel each other under a set of rules with the goal of preserving their honor. Skirting the rules, but not technically breaking them, in order to win was seen as dishonorable. Not sure if I'm right about that but, historically, it was the wealthy gentry who regularly practiced martial arts, and engaged in formal honor duels. Lower classes would just scrap in the streets. Also, back in the day, boxing was done bare knuckled and it was a contest of skill, not strength, and punching someone in the head bare knuckled hurts and risks injuring your hands, so winning by knockout was pretty uncommon.
Icy Mike wearing a ZNA shirt is so badass. Would love a self defense context review of one of his builds
I love the sound effects XD I also love Seth getting overly philosophical
Couldn't like this video enough. Just went over this at our gym. Trevor Prangley's aka up in cda Idaho. Hella good place. Love your videos man
Vasiliy Lomachenko does these constantly, flows from strike to frame to guard manipulation.
Great! The technique/teaching videos are always my favorite!
Same here. I can now use my front leg(better).
And I never would have heard of the superboy, gazelle, Bazaro, etc
The work out videos are awesome too, made my crunch better.
But I need the goofy videos just as much!
Rico Verhoeven also uses guard manipulation; he does this by pulling the lead hand forward while using his rear teep.
We teach something like that in our front kick curriculum
I love hand trapping so much, this stuff is so cool.
Loving the zednought alpha sweatshirt!
Icy Mike with another banger.
When the jab and tight guard (hands to the face) was first invented it was seen as underhanded and cowardly. Any way you can make the fight more unfair, within the rules of whatever context you’re in, is good.
Lomachenko uses that stuff. I like doing it a few times and when they get used to me pulling the hand down i switch up the shot to a bodyshot cuz they always pull the guard back up high.
The TH-cam trifecta! Shout out Seth and MUCH love Mc dojo life!
Love the ZNA merchandise. Also kudos for Blackie chan for coming back and dealing with u. Lol.
You have brought your face over But not your base over is brilliant
Blackie Chan! I love when you do collabs.
I did not see these moves as “dirty” boxing, but rather good counters for the shell-up guard. Once some someone shells-up, you cannot be expected to just stand there until they feel like coming out to fight again. Not using moves like this to break the shell only encourages shelling-up tactics. Great video.
Boxing rules include no backfists, open hand slaps, striking with the wrist (bone), or hammer fist strikes. So the one you use to strike down to open up the hook would be illegal if you were just boxing. Thanks for the video!
Always thought Loma did the first one so much better and effortlessly than anyone else I’ve seen.
Awesome techniques.. I love stuff like this.. and posting.. posting and uppercut is probably my favorite
Creative stuff. It is excellent for setting up sneaky shots that the opponent don't have a lot of time to react to
I was once in muay thai sparring as beginner with another beginner and as southpaw I was trapping his hand with my lead hand a lot and he got angry and said I was cheating haha
That's one of the very basic strategies for open stance matchups.
Don't see why that could even be argued as cheating in Thai Boxing which is very heavy on clinch fighting.
Cool concepts and stuff I saw local kickboxing fight and some guy covered his opponents face with the glove then ripped a uppercut to the body it was so cool
Great group of guys right there!
XXX rated boxing. Coincidentally I taught some of this last night to my boxers. I like the idea of punching the arm from the inside to open up the face.
"he can't move his hands without giving you information on what he intends to do" -- excellent encapsulation of Wing Chun chi sao (sticky hands) concept.
I think of the "dirty" in "dirty boxing" the same way I think of it in "dirty rice." Not that its immoral or whatever, but that there's a little something extra in the mix, something spicier than what people usually think of.
Alternatively, I'd call "dirty boxing" shorthand for striking styles that are intended for bareknuckle, close-quarters, no rules applications and consequently include techniques (such as grabbing, clinching, trapping, elbows, vitals strikes, etc.) that are not included in the sport boxing ruleset. Dirty boxing styles include Wing Chun, 52 Blocks, Panantukan, Fairbairn-Sykes combatives, Irish/English "fisticuffs", etc.
Beeeeeeen waiting for a vid like this. Thanks Icy Mike!
I have actually seen that forearm strike against someone's guard used in Shaolin Kung Fu, it is known as "hei hu Tao shin" or "black tiger steals the heart" (and btw yes, I know it's used in other styles idfc) and from what I have seen it is usually applied as you showed in this video where you place your forearm laterally against someone's guard and then deliver strikes with your other hand to the chest or the lower body, this was actually very interesting to see
Kungfu is funny
If it's bareknuckle, I've found that punching the knobby bones on the sides of the wrist usually makes people reconsider trying a static guard.
For me personally what I would do as a southpaw is step outside and deliver right overhand. If it hits great. If he blocks it the only way he can do it is by moving his hand to the side which than opens his guard in the middle. Then while attacking him to the middle I would use vertical fist instead of usual horizontal so there is a better chance for it go through between his guard as he tries to get it back into the middle. than if he manages to block this again repeat the whole process and eventually something will get through.
There is exceptions with utilizing the high guard though if you can utilize it with head movement and footwork or just using it for counters. Petr Yan in the UFC uses a high guard a lot, mostly to study his opponents but also to effectively counter fast. Canelo also uses a sort of high guard so he can let his opponent throw a bit and time a counter perfectly. The reason guys like them can use the high guard effectively is because like I said they mix in head movement and foot work so they're not just stationary letting their opponent completely tee off on them. There's also times Lomachenko uses it as well but will counter and use footwork to get off the center line. Using a high guard isn't a "stupid" guard, it can be used effectively rather than having your hands down and trying to counter in a Roy Jones esque way because you can easily get fooled by a feint and walk right into a solid shot. High guard allows to effectively counter without a chance of getting caught clean because you can time counters better.
I like to combine this with a long guard for boxing, I keep a very active very forward lead hand, sometimes just tapping the opponents glove/guard to desensitise them to my lead hand, then i’ll quickly pull down the hand to land a right cross or hook
Loma and Tyson Fury use these techniques and more. Basically they are "legal" because you can bump and shove the gloves as long as you are not holding the arms.
Is that a ZNA Production hoodie? One of my favorite channels.
Maybe in boxing competitions it's not something you "should" do, but guard and arm trapping are very useful by other standards like self defence.
I don't see it like something bad, but it's not nice.
Let's leave it in that If it can be done, it can be avoided too.
It is DEFINITELY something you SHOULD DO. Especially when almost ALL of the all time greats do it as well as the best guys in the modern era. Mayweather, Andre Ward, Lomachenko, and even up and coming young champs like Shakur Stevenson use it. Roberto Duran was a master at it back in the 70s and 80s. Sandy Saddler, Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, and many others during the 40s, 50s era. Jack Johnson, Sam Langford, and Joe Gans who had styles that were VERY heavy on clinch fighting and trapping in the early 1910s close to the bare knuckle era.
Yo thats a legendary hoodie right there
It's not dirty boxing because your technique is so clean, Mike.
It is dirty, it is underhanded, that's why I love it.
my favorite fighter is back
"Dirty boxing" is anything that my opponent does that surprises or frustrates me.
lol i relate very strongly to this
As soon as I heard "this is sort of a scrubby answer," I'm all in.
Funny how it has become a meme that "trapping doesn't work" yet you can see countless examples of it working even with huge boxing gloves on where you can't even properly use your hands for grappling. So that alone confirms it would be even more effective barehanded.
People just see the trapping flow drills and don't understand that those are DRILLS, and when actually applied in a fight you would only do one quick hand trap at a time just like you've demonstrated here to create openings for your boxing.
I love zna productions so relaxing many weapons.
Being a sanda and traditional Wushu practitioner I've been using some similar tactics in my sparring with gloves
On the whooop one where u stuff his hands with your forearm, your opponent can just sidestep turn out of that (towards your elbow) and throw a straighthook (a weird almost straight like hook) if they don’t panic anyways. Its only guaranteed if you have someone against ropes.
Hah, that's a fun video for me to watch, because many of the things you show here and in "Dirty Boxing Tricks to Frustrate and Tire Your Opponent" video is *exactly* what we do in a martial art that I'm training: yiquan (which I often jokingly say is the most hipster martial art ever, because you probably never heard about it). You can influence the guard in similar way also when the opponent is striking (specifically, starting a strike), as this is the moment when they do become stiff for a brief time, that includes turning them like you've shown in your "dirty boxing tricks" video, pulling them while redirecting (parrying?) the blow, in rare cases also pushing them. Not that it's easy, of course. Basically influencing the guard (that is opening the guard, pushing/pulling the guard) is practiced in "pushing hands" (tuishou) in a numer of traditional Chinese martial arts, although of course there are very few people that train that seriously enough to make it viable. Shame, really, but what can you do.
The difference between what we do and what you show, however, is that we do those openings with our forearms, not fists/gloves. I guess you can try this someday when you'll be training with someone with MMA gloves. The secret is the angles really, you don't need to catch the arm or hook it in any way, just forearm to forearm contact can suffice. It's similar of how you went inside the guard on that other video to show that it's easier for you to punch in that situation, and harder for the enemy, because you can hinder his movements when he has the hands outside your guard. If the opponent has a stiff guard, you can unbalance them, if they're too soft, you can just create the opening in the guard, and while it is possible to defend from such movements, it is a rather specific thing, I'm not sure if anyone actually trains such things outside of yiquan.
Very good video. This is not dirty boxing. All of the things you showed are allowed to do in a ring according to the current boxing rules and should be taught broadly to students of the sweet science. Great masters from the past used techniques similar to the ones displayed in the video on a regular basis. The problem is that this knowledge got lost during the 80s. Nowadays referees are not familiar with them. When they see boxers trying to work out of the clinch or manipulate the guard, they usually call for a break, because that is much easier than having to supervise a fight happening at close range. In any case, I am glad that you explore the many possibilities boxing has to offer.
My favourite technique was definitely the boom boom whoop bap... 😂 cant wait till next week when we get to learn the bing bang shallashallabingbang
Thats a room full of cool people (plus Seth) even with ZNAs indirect presence
*As a big guy, I use these techniques to conserve energy while being as efficient as possible.*
Blackie Chan with his Praised Gloves. 🙂 Then Rob and Seth out of nowhere ❤
That's a mat to be on!
This was a cool one, I would love to see Blackie Chan on their channels, maybe more improvised weapons in a DollarGeneral, we love that!
Like that movie _______. I can't remember.
great collab!
My understanding is that "dirty boxing" doesn't mean dirty as in unfair, but just, not crisp clean perfect orthodox technique, and specifically any kind of clinching and handfighting.
Ok, I'm starting to think that you guys communicate by beat boxing when the cameras are off and English is just the language you use for us newbies.
Is it dirty? Oh yeah, filthy, that's why we love it.
Ayyyyyyy blackie chan my guy
Bro that hoodie brings back my child hood
My understanding of dirty boxing is when a fighter will do things that are against the rules, such as rabbit punching, throwing an elbow in the clench, headbutting, kidney shots, low blows, etc., when the ref isn't looking. These techniques Icy Mike are showing are just smart boxing skills, I wouldn't label them as "dirty."
I saw these self defense rings that you should check it out mike
Nice boxing tip!
Thank you for the video! ☺♥
sick sweater mike