fun fact about the protein powder; if you are allergic to milk -not lactose intolerant, but allergic to the milk protein! - you can get cross-reaction from the beef protein, so be cautious and if you experience any allergic reaction, like shortness of breath, go for rice protein.
The problem is everyone forgets there is already a definiton for the act they are thinking about when they say "spar", it's called" FIGHT! So since that act is already taken, the word "spar" should either be less than or greater than "figth". So which one is for you? less than or greater than. If its the former, then hit as hard as you want to be hit in a SPAR session, should weed out a lot of the confusion. Either way, we have WRITTEN Rules for "fight", why not for "spar"?
-light to the head - no elbows - no knees to the head -communicate with your partner and keep your ego in check. Everything else is free game in our gym.
Even calf kicks? I heard new age gyms don’t even spar using them because of the risk of injury. Even with condtioning and rolling out to push the nerve down, they dont want to spar using them because of the damage accumulating over time throught multiple rounds of the calf geting hit over and over ever. That could cause a injury or even create one by killing the legs before they even have a chance to fight.
@@judgegerald1275 Brother unless you mean wearing elbow pads then I’m sorry you’re wrong. Even if land with pure technic they still cut and cause pretty serious injuries even without malice intend
Main problem with the “sparring golden rule” is that most people have no clue how hard they’re hitting on any given day. Absolutely include myself in that.
i think sparring itself is a skill mike mentioned it, alot of people have no idea what they're doing or not doing they get excited and alot of what they are doing and thinking is kinda on autopilot could be fear, or aggression or just overstimulation so they're stiff and throw a hard punch, you match it and boom, he thinks ur just a jerk but u get 2 guys who are comfortable, nothing to prove both understand sparring is a laboratory and not a competition you step back and can be like "woah" and other takes the hint and dials it down a bit or a blind punch snaps and you say "all-good, lets go" and you both dial it up i think its a skill developed to be able to be conscious of all that ya i've been all of those people at some point good sparring with someone i got to know and bad sparring where i wasn't in control and basically went for a ride, got some bumps and didn't really know what happened or why and we take mike's point... we kinda gotta communicate "yo take it easy today, i don't wanna go home with a migraine or cracked rib"
And also, some people want to get hit a lot harder than others! I spar with this Polish guy. Nicest guy in the world, but he ALWAYS tries to make it into a dogfight, because he just likes the hard spar. He CBA with touch sparring. If I was to tell him "only hit as hard as you want to get hit", he'd turn to me and say "...That's what I've been doing..."
Well, that shows you have a lack of experience or awareness of how you are effecting others. I have a lot of power because I'm a heavyweight, but I can spar with 95 pound girls or kids because I am acutely aware of how much force I am putting out, what they can probably tolerate, and what effect I am having on them. So you learn to dial it up or down according to the individual you are sparring with.
@hard2hurt to elaborate, if the junior is good enough, the senior can also train and improve the closer the skill gap gets. But the senior should always be conscious of that skill difference in sparring. Just my thoughts. You said it all better than me mike lol 😆
They also have a job to gently push the rookie. So if they keep making an error, make sure you point it out. My rule with less experienced guys is that. If I land something 3 times then I’ll tell them why it is working and give them a tip to avoid it. Then if they smarten up I know I can push it a little.
Sometimes. The other thing is because they are the unspoken rules of their gym's sparring they assume they are obvious, "everybody knows no one had to be told". So whoever isn't following them is just a rude asshole. Also if they never list them the people in the gym might not be able to tell you what the rules are till someone breaks them
@@benhover9604 I've run into this. When I moved, I went school shopping to find a new one. First one i tested, I did a back fist to the head, no touch (it was light contact sparring). no one told me it was against the rules. Opponent shelled up like I went pull blast on them, and the instructor/owner came over. In his case, it was an insurance company requirement so I understood, but still should have made rules clear.
I found Ramsey Dewey's rules for sparring a good place to start: You break your sparring partner, you don't get a new one; your light isn't your opponents; you can tell your partner to go harder or lighter; sparring should be an exchange of information; you can break away to reassess then reengage
I'm 54. I've practiced martial arts for about four decades. I am a hobby practitioner, not a fighter. I don't spar with active competitors so that I don't waste their time. When I do spar, I make it clear to my sparring partner (notice the word "partner" NOT opponent) HOW I spar. If we've never sparred before, for example, I get them to put their hands up in a shell and I hit them a few punches to show how much power I use. Not a lot. If they want to t-off on me, try to drop me, etc., I get through the round and thank them and pick another partner. If they're beginners or whatnot, I try to provide some direction. "Take it down a notch power wise when sparring with me; don't do technique X" etc. But that's me. Others may prefer traumatic brain injury because they are learning self-defense, and so it makes sense to give yourself early onset dementia in order to be ready when somebody jumps you in that bar you shouldn't have gone to in the first place. Each their own. (Anyway: this is one of your best videos.)
Yessir! Where I train, we basically spend 2 o 5 minutes talking to our sparring partner and tapping each other to determine strike power and working out what we're allowed to do during our session. Seems to work great! It's all about communication
Counterpoint. I’m typically by far the largest person in my gym/dojo. Especially when sparring with new people, I tell them to hit me in the chest as hard as they want me to hit them. I call it Setting the Weight. People tend to go really light. And I’m able to do the same. But I’m at an age and place where my competing / fighting days are in the rear view …. The point of hitting as hard as you want to be hit is Supposed to be about the new guy being able to feel comfortable with it… IMHO. Love your videos.
HEMA guy here with some time in MMA I've found that in HEMA, people are not shy about verbalizing their wants ala etiquette, to the point where it was a bit of a culture shock when I switched over to MMA, where almost no one would say anything about that unless they were on the older or injured. Doubly frustrating as a bigger dude who was new, as people would start wailing on me, and I would have no idea if it was because they wanted to go hard, if I had done something wrong, or if they were just trying to compensate for the size disparity with intensity
Wow. That sounds nerve-racking. It's funny how it's like this in most mma gyms... and not like this in any other place where adults collaborate and succeed lol.
Sounds pretty familiar to me. I've moved from SCA heavy fighting to a kickboxing, jiu-jitsu, MMA gym. When the rules are that you need to hit someone with a rattan stick and strike with "sufficient force", it results in a conversation about what that "sufficient force" is (in practice at least, tournaments are a different story). I assumed it was because most of the people in that group understand that A. we all need to work the next day, and B. it's a small group and we want others to keep coming back. I'm 6'2" 265, and pretty new myself. I can confirm that subconsciously people will just go harder against the big guy, not sure if they think they need to or if they think you can handle it better. Gloves and shorts cost a lot less than armor, so with lower barriers to start, the average age is quite a bit younger. I've noticed the younger guys will sometimes wind themselves up, especially if they're anxious. You can figure out when this is happening as opposed to them escalating in response to you by focusing on defense, throwing jabs at their guard, and letting them run their offense.
I also do SCA heavy fighting and moved from one "kingdom" to another and even though I have been fighting a few years there was still a calibration check by the more experienced fighters when I started practicing with them to make sure I was hitting and taking appropriately for the region since the calibrations tend to vary a bit based on where you fight out of.
Same but opposite direction, going from traditional martial arts to buhurt (the MMA in armour you see clips of sometimes) and being told very quickly that I was going too hard even with the soft padded weapons. That was because of a skill difference with weapons (which I didn't expect to be better at as the newbie). But the MMA ego is still there, because the next session it was grappling instead, and the same guy had the advantage in mass and strength and broke my shin in revenge. THEN I went to HEMA and discovered the difference you all found.
Also HEMA guy. I am a bit shocked with what I see in the video and read in the comments. In HEMA we also want to fight, we want to go hard, but we don't want specifically hurt or injure the other guy. Especially in sparrings. It's so often to hear "Are you okay?" during sparring or even tournaments, when one party landed a good painful hit to the other, but is worried if it was serious. The pain and injuries are the side effects, not the goal. And with sparrings: yeah, just discuss what is okay and what's not. It's also a usual thing to ask if your partner is okay with your intensity or tell them that they can hit you harder and more confident.
Not a striking experience, but I recently rolled with a more experienced guy during a BJJ session. I ended up putting him in a triangle choke, and was about to finish it when the timer hit. Afterwards, I confirmed that he had indeed gone easy on me. As someone who loves to roll with more skilled opponents and go as hard as they are willing to, because it exposes genuine flaws in my game, I was somewhat disappointed. He explained to me why he likes to start easy on people, which I understood completely. In turn, I told him I had "hoped to get destroyed a little", and that I love to learn from true failure. This week, we rolled again. He ended up submitting me with an arm bar. Afterwards, we had a chat about my mistakes and flaws in my technique (I had him in a guillotine for a bit, but didn't manage to force a tap). We stayed on the mat after the session, and he showed me some stuff from the position we had been in. I genuinely benefitted from this one sparring round and the follow-up. And if we hadn't talked about that first roll, none of it would have happened.
People think if they're the one that says "hey man, lighten up on those punches" then you lose at sparring no one should be winning sparring i used to be 300lb. people have hit me hard af when im genuinely just tapping them. ive had to stop them in the middle of rounds and say "hey, just because im going fast doesn't mean im hurting you. relax" and then i show them the punches coming at them are just basically taps and patty-cake it usually helps
Love this! I just hate it when they walk into your punch and you don't have time to pull it, or you're trying to pull off/work on something fancy and they have all the time in the world to set up the perfect kick. Too many times I got rocked because I didn't have the experience to read their footwork and ended up barreling right into their spinning sidekick.
One rule we have is if I ask if you are sparring tonight and you say “No”, nobody asks why. None of my business. You are paying to be here. If you don’t want to spar, lots of other people who do. I encourage the class as a whole to spar, but individuals can choose for themselves
@@hard2hurt lol, i for one thought it was incredibly insightful and way more people should think about these types of things so that it's easier for everyone to progress.
Your intro talk during your Hard Ready session really stuck with me. The idea that "you ain't a wimp if you tell someone they're going too hard, you're a wimp if you're afraid to" is one I've been trying to impart on my folks. Some people legit don't have good control, and don't know how hard they're going, and that conversation is useful and important. I'm in a lucky situation in that we're all friends and have been training together for a long time, so that conversation is easier. Great stuff, thanks.
My opinion on sparring has really evolved as I've aged and learned more. As a 19 year old getting into bjj and mma, I was coming in as 200lbs state champion wrestler. I'm big so I got paired with guys who were way above my experience level. I kept getting the crap beat out of me and had no idea why. People were always angry and I was young and dumb enough to not realize I was the problem. I'm proud to say a decade later I'm everyone's favorite sparring partner. Because now I communicate. I ask people what they are working on. I ask people how fast and how hard I should go. And then, I tell people what I want. If something happens that upsets me I say something about it. If I do something that upsets someone I make it obvious that I'm sorry and adjust. The sparring matches where I learn the most now come from smaller inexperienced fighters where I can tell them to let loose a little bit. They feel comfortable doing that because I'm not going to turn around and hurt them. I think the biggest rule is to take care of your sparring partner. Don't be the big dumb 200lbs spaz who can't check their ego at the door.
Sequestering fighters preparing for a match is probably the best idea. There are sometimes people who are good enough to do hard rounds with those fighters in your school but perhaps weren't planning on or interested in going to war. Like, some people just train for it's own sake. Also, that Saenchai sparring is golden.
The height disparity escalation is the bane of my existence. I'm 5'6" and it happened constantly. The level of intensity and commitment to a strike i had to work at to close the distance and score a hit was significantly higher when i was dealing with a dude at 6'+. That intensity causes an increase from my sparring partner and they'd escalate until we brawled. I hated it so much. In my 40s i'd be able to have the conversations now instead of letting my insecurity dictate that I can't ask them to ease up and have a conversation about why i'm coming across as too amped up. Now I deal with depression and anxiety and there's a good chance that going that hard in sparring exacerbated those problems. Have the conversations folks. Save your brain needless trauma. Love that you're advocating the platinum rule over the golden rule by the way. Do unto others as they'd want you to do upon them. A thing you can only do if you have a conversation with them. I genuinely believe the golden rule is a detriment to our society.
Yeah hit as hard as you want to be hit has always seemed like bullshit to me. Any sparring class I've been in where the coach says that has inevitably led to a few people going super hard despite what anyone else may want. It's just asking for miscommunications. What if you want to get hit hard but your partner doesn't? It doesn't really count as etiquette to me if it's only factoring in what you want to do and not at all accounting for the needs of your partner. Etiquette should be all about communication and mutual understanding, which is exactly why "hit as hard as you want" is essentially antithetical to the ideals of good sparring etiquette.
@@hard2hurtiget the idea, bc you think that by hitting lightly, the other guy will hit lightly. But then the other guy's hitting hard bc he wants you to hit hard too. Comes down to cimmunication imo
No punches in the clinch is a great way to set someone up for failure. The most vulnerable you are to being hit is entering the clinch and exiting the clinch.
I agree but I can understand it from a certain perspective. If you're punching in the clinch you're opening yourself up to being elbowed but we don't allow elbows in the clinch. If the direct counter to punches in the clinch is banned then it kinda could make sense to ban the punches as well.
I used to train with a well known MMA fighter who generally went light in sparring, but had a few people he trusted with which to go harder. Close to a fight he was a lot more cautious as he didn’t want to risk getting cut.
I think people take sparring too personally and see it as a direct representation of their fighting ability. When it actuality it’s a conversation like you said. It’s about helping your partner become a better fighter while also improving yourself and intensity isn’t always the most important element of the equation
I sparred with a woman years ago and did my best to strike extremely lightly (maybe 5%-10% of my power) while maintaining correct technique, but she kept walking into punches for the whole 2 minute round. Now I know I should have stopped her and corrected her, but I was fairly new at the time and didnt feel like I could correct anyone effectively. The next time we sparred about a week later the coach came over and watched us intensely, which I thought was odd. I did the same thing and she again walked into every shot. He stopped us and told her that she had to stop walking forward straight into strikes and use her defense, in which she said I was punching too hard. I was dumbfounded as I had tried very hard to not punch hard, and found out later that she talked to the coach after that first spar and said I was hitting too hard. I switched to a painfully slow speed, as slow as I could go like I was playing with a toddler, though she still ran into some shots. I tried avoiding sparring with her after that. All of this could have been avoided early on if she had communicated with me the first time, and we could have gotten it worked out in that first sparring session. Preemptive communication has been my go to way to avoid sparring issues ever since.
Watching this video I realized that a big indicator of a good sparring "moment" is when people laugh. It may not be the rule, might not be always true 100%, but if there are people laughing (joyfull laugh, not someone making fun of others), having fun for what they're doing, that's a great sign
That’s what I saw that I really really loved. In sparring, you can show someone what *can* happen without actually *doing* it. If I throw a really stupidly telegraphed kick and you could absolutely destroy me from it, you don’t have to destroy me, you just have to show me that I opened myself up to that potential. Catching and holding for emphasis gives that moment of “Oh shit” and I can read between the lines from there.
When I used to teach karate I would do a few things to avoid problems. 1. Start people with lighter partner work or sparing to develop control. 2. Explain rules and prohibited actions. 3. Analyze and discuss after training. 4. Make corrections. I don't know if these completely apply to MMA or other combat sports. But worked for my guys/gals in the karate framework.
When I used to train regularly I'd always ask my sparring partner if they were ok with how hard or soft I was hitting, and I'd always be vocal with them if I thought they needed to lighten up, or if I felt they could stand to go a bit harder. We also had a rule in both of my old gyms that if you weren't sparring at or close to full intensity, you would never complete a sweep if you caught a kick. You could show the sweep, but dumping someone after catching a kick they threw at 60% speed/intensity seemed pointless. Communication is key here. I know a lot of people don't like to talk during sparring rounds, but I think it's always good to be giving verbal feedback if needed. I'm autistic, and often can't read someone's body language as well as others might be able to, so I don't always know if they're getting annoyed/upset/frustrated etc etc etc. I'd prefer someone tell me if I'm going too hard or doing something too wildly or wrong, and I'd also prefer to tell someone (politely and constructively, of course) if there's something I'd like them to adjust when they're working with me.
This is probably why alot of guys dropped sparring all together The "hit as hard as you want to be hit" thing is what coaches say when they picked evenly matched sparring partners,the few times i sparred a heavyweight coach said he wasnt alowed to do much he was working on jab and slip or same thing if i was sparring a new kid, would just work on certain things ....i feel like shitty fighters that suck end up settling as coachs and sparring partners where they feel good whooping kids.
I’ve always told people: if you haven’t said something you don’t have any right to be mad. In my experience, 98% of people will tone it down if you ask them to, no problem.
Our Sparring rules generally had the instructors telling us each time. Even in Brazilian Juijitsu the mae rules was you aren't going against enemies, you are training with friends. We don't hurt friends. We didn't go full power as well. Also tend not to go for the head. I do agree with asking the partner what they want to train at and the hardness of a punch.
@@hard2hurt but we should really try no to... at least not intentionally. Accidents happens, everyone of us, can shoot a punch a little harder than intended. But you aren't trying to kill your friend or cripple him...
@@GabrielMazzei01 I think what mike was trying to say here is, sometimes we must agree to go a little harder and try to hurt each other. He doesnt mean this in the sense of injury but for the sake of learning how to deal with pressure, because thats really important to know before you step in the ring.
@@GabrielMazzei01 I do fully agree with this. Sometimes we did hurt people however it was not intentional. That is a big difference than just going out and rage sparing.
I do full contact steel fighting (known as Buhurt or armored combat), and when we train and do sparring in our team, the least experienced fighter sets the tone of the fight. We do technique first and then sparring. When we beginn sparring, we all come together and set the rules for this session. If we use take downs, clinch, fokus on a technique we practiced/learned bevore or do free sparring. So everybody is on the same understanding.
Interesting. I can't really understanding letting the less experienced person set the tone. Maybe occasionally as a test, but as a general rule? lol no.
@@hard2hurt when a newer fighter sparrs with an experienced fighter, the newer one has to be more proactive and how hard and intense the new one will strike, the experienced fighter will respond to. The veteran can scale his intesity, the new one not so much. In a tournament setting, you don´t hold back in our sport, so this is a safe method to test the boundaries and teach the veteran more control and observe the other one. When both agree to treat it like a tournament fight (free sparring) then gloves are off and both know it.
@@GabrielMazzei01 that´s why we train technique separate and in partner/group drills too. It depends what category you fight in our sport. One is more like boxing and the other is more like last man standing, counting wise. why do you think it is dangerous? most of the time the rookie is out of breath after 20-30 sec into the round. (We wear quite a lot of protective gear, even in spoft kit sparring. like Icehockey protectors with MMA helmet kind of)
I was kind of taken aback by the notion that the golden rule, or in this case "hit as hard as you want to be hit" isnt good enough. But the more i thought about it, you're totally right both on and off the mat. Not everyone wants to be treated the same way and the big problem with assuming everyone want s yo be treated like you is there is no communication. On the mat (or literally any colabertative activity) your participating in something together so its important to have an agreement on rules even if it means compromise 👌
1:30 I think the “get hit as hard as you want to get hit” is an ATTEMPT (a bad one but still an attempt) to shorthand “be mindful of the power you are throwing in your shots. Because if you aren’t it will probably escalate.” I’ve also never seen that “no punching in the clinch” rule. I also think you hit the nail on the head in regards to emotional intelligence and communication. Even outside of fighting people in general have a difficult time discussing boundaries.
DON'T BE AFRAID TO TELL PEOPLE THAT YOU WANT TO GO LIGHT! I made this mistake by not speaking up, then I found myself in a hard sparring situation and broke two of my toes because I felt like I had to defend myself. Sparring etiquette is something that NEEDS to be addressed in EVERY fight gym.
The most important thing about Sparring, in my classes, is that each sparrer has a job. Each partner's job is to help their opponent get better even as they attempt to improve themselves. It is not an antagonistic relationship, it is a symbiotic relationship. If you're bigger, smarter, or faster than your opponent, your job includes tightly controlling your power or speed, and attempting new combos or techniques you're not great at to improve them. If your opponent is bigger, smarter, or faster than you, your job is to speed up, hit harder, move smarter, and get on your opponent's level. In this way, you both have something to improve upon, and both know what the other guy is improving on. Now, competition sparring is different. If you're in a tournament, or even if you have a healthy rivalry at your gym or dojo, you honor your opponent by giving them your best, understanding that a competitive opponent or rival can handle it.
I was getting ready for my latest boxing match and went to spar at a friends gym. The thing was organized this way: some light sparring between the guys who were not fighting and the guys who fought and three consecutive hard rounds. One of the guys started going really hard with me, and I outweighed him by 25kg. The round passed and the trainer said, “Hey pull it back.” The guy again started going hard while I was basically trying shit out and starts saying “Come om hit me. Hit me. Come on.” So I went left body hook, right body hook left head hook, his head spun around, his mouthpiece went flying. That was entirely my bad. I now think I shouldn’t have done that. I think that the trainer that was supervising everything should have said more, but I shouldn’t have done that.
@ I learned that the hard way before my first fight when they put me 12 rounds with a pro with fifty fights. In this other instance my friend was the trainer. My perception is also warped by the fact that I am generally heavier than my sparring partners so they feel free to go as hard as they want.
What we usually do in sparring is that we tell the guys; light on the head, heavy on the body, and heavier on the legs. And when evolving elbows, we have to involve headgear and elbow protection and not to go full force! Now, if you train in Thailand or trained, that will give you a clear picture of how you should spar, rarely you see someone getting hurt from sparring there. But you move to the Dutch school kickboxing it’s a different way to do it. Since that style was developed from Kyokushin and its all about power and being tough as a wall, they go hard in their sparring, the advantage result is that you will feel the actual pressure in real fight but from the other side there is a big chance you to get a brain damage. As you mentioned, there are rules that need to be written because the purpose of the training or fighting isn’t to kill each other unless you are training for military combat purposes. Thanks man for bringing this subject and big respect. 🙏🏻
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you is" meant generally, including for people arent just your training partner and who actually want to delete you. Your variation works well for when you're working with a person who is working with you as a partner instead of an actual opponent or enemy, cause an actual enemy would rather you do nothing while they beat the spit out of you or worse. Good video.
ty. As a general rule of thumb 'assumptions' are foolish, costly and even dangerous. Explicit rules about sparring should be the norm. Boundaries are healthy in relationships in GENERAL but in this case quite literally. We need them because there are some people that just don't get it, like the odd fellow who wants to spar hard with Saenchai. I remember a guy who didn't tone it down after I asked him to. I hit him back hard and he cut it out but I was still mad. I shouldn't have to ENFORCE rules that we agree to. I am not a punching bag, and you are not a child. We respect each other by respecting the rules or I'm not going to play with you. End of story.
Bookmarking this video for the future, whenever I need to explain to people what spwreing etiquette really is, I'mma just send them this video. Love you man, you're the best.
Just gotta say I'm an instant fan after hearing your explanation. I also like that respect and ethics are built into you explanation. I have trained at a few places that each had different rules first muay Thai gym we had light sparring and heavy sparring and they had different rules Light - 20% strength (but more often hit as hard as you want to be hit and I have to agree this often times gets out of hand with the wrong person) - Show the elbow or knee but no contact - Show the sweep, don't do it - no strikes to the back Heavy - fighters only and only in the ring - 50% (don't hit harder than you wanna be hit - somehow with the heavy sparring this rule seemed to work out better. Maybe due to maturity IMO) - defend yourself at all times ( no punch to the back of the head, but if you turn expect punchs to keep coming) - Sweeps are ok - No knees or elbows to the head Strangely I felt safer with the heavy sparring at this gym. The issue was "the conversation" as you put it. The 20% spars would often end up at 50-70% and you might just get an errant elbow or knee. And looking back a lot of that probably had to due with newer folks not knowing the un-written rules, and being told "hit as hard as you want to be hit" In my experience this often leads to people getting hit harder then they really want to be. And frankly maybe I don't want to be hit that hard. The heavy sparring you knew what you were getting into and the respect and professionalism was there so it rarely if ever got to out of hand, but that probably had a lot to do with the people sparring. I also trained more recently at an MMA gym. The striking sparring was basically play fighting. Which was fun, I never got hurt and you still get good training. - No contact, or just barely touch - Sweeps if you agree and have space, and broadcast it for safety - no takedowns or sweeps unless you have the space
The "Golden Rule Of Sparring" almost seems like less of a Rule and more of an Observation people internalized as a Rule. You never see an example of a guy who wants to go hard, hits his sparring partner who wanted to go lighter hard so they could hard spar instead. It's like the saying "Live every day like it's your last". It's not meant to be a literal rule, it's just an overly poetic way of saying "Do what makes you happy and appreciate what you have". "Hit how hard you want to get hit" is just a poetic way of saying "If you try to sneak in a hard punch to satisfy your ego, the other guy will hit you hard as well"
This is such an excellent discussion! More people need to hear this because I think many people are either not sparring because they think it's real fight or getting hurt because they don't know what the agreement or goals are in the first place. Cheers!
I always excelled at keeping it light sparring beginners, I think because my size intimidated them and they never spazzed out against me. I, however, have spazzed out against higher-ranked opponents in the past. One of them became one of my favorites to spar against, mostly because I hit nothing but air 95% of the time.😅
This is so true, my son and i love to box/BJJ/MMA, we go to the same gym, at home all pocket money/ who's doing dishes/mowing lawn etc. is on the line with gloves off a 3 min round. When he was 10 it was easy for myself to hold back and dictate which way i wanted it to go even through it seemed like he was fighting for his life. now he's 15 and its me who's REALLY fighting for my sanity and trying to come out the same way i went in. Lately i ended up looking at the backyard grass REAL closely, and we had to have an honest discussion as what training partners means controlling ones anger once you take a knock on the chin and deescalate instead of winding up slugging away. ITs the reason there's a referee in a fight Afterall! I Feel the best gift you can give your sons, is the ability to defend themselves when you not around.
Posting after this point in the video 2:39 Number one rule of sparring in my book is communicate and check for understanding. Seems reasonable to throw a hard shot in response to a hard shot but how do you know that was intentional unless you talk to your partner? The more familiar you are with your partner the more you can depend on nonverbal cues but how much sense does it make to end up injured or hurting someone for lack of a "hey, those are coming in a bit hard, do you want that coming back at you?". The maddest I've ever been in practice is after a guy tried to hurt me in a spar because of a miscommunication. I had no idea there was a problem until after the round was finished and I asked him why he was trying to take my head off. Turns out he thought I "ignored" a light blow and took advantage of it but I don't even know when it happened because he didn't bring it up.
I learned recently that in many gyms it's rude to put the bottom of your foot in someone's face, even when going super light. I was proud un my kick but then my sparring partner looked at me like I killed his dog or something
@@outerlast yeah, that's what he told me, coming from savate and kickboxing I had no idea. Thankfully he was cool, so he just explained it and proceeded to nicely outbox me for the rest of the round
Did some 1-to-1 sessions with my teacher, where we sparred. I'm a newbie. He is a former professional boxer. He said that I could try to hit him as much as I wanted, and as hard as I wanted, and that he wouldn't mind. He said that I had nothing to fear from him. He said that as the rounds went by, he would tap me on the face with a jab or a light cross if I started to drop my hands. He said that if at any point it felt like his power or intensity was getting too much, I should shout 'no' and he would pull it back. By the way, I tried for six straight rounds and I didn't hit him once. But this is possible when one of you is a newbie and the other guy is a pro fighter with 100s of fights under his belt. So much fun.
1:24 That's never what we said. He said start as light as you can without not actually touching them, and keep going up until they stop asking you to hit them harder. "Give it more gas. More. There ya go"
The opposite side of "hit as hard as you want to be hit" is "drop your intensity to match your partner's", which is an unwritten rule in our school. Mind you, different schools have different rules, as you said: in our school we encourage punching in the clinch, but we never catch the leg.
I just normally tell people to start slow and slowly ramp it up in intensity. I usually settle somewhere around 50%. But I do enjoy my "harder" sparring but only with people I've trained with before. People I know who don't get emotional while sparring.
after an exchange, if you feel good about it, smile at your sparring partner. If you get a smile, nod, etc back, you're both probably doing good. If not, maybe a quick conversation needs to be had. "Everything feel right?" Is a good start. This is how I always start with new sparring partners. This is how I do with old partners if I feel something is up. It's a great way to establish that etiquette with them. Above all, keep my ego and temper in check. If I can't, today is not the day to be training. Go home and figure out what's up. If they can't, don't push it. Politely bow out and try again another time.
I had a tendency to get excited.. I loved to brawl and had to constantly remind myself to calm down. There are some places that go balls out and are crazy but this can lead to unnecessary injuries. I always had heard the shootbox (if I remember right) camps went ham every session. I may be remembering that wrong..
there's a reason why I don't sparr with people I don't know: you never know what kind of issues they have. Once I had a very uncomfortable partner who didn't have his ego in check and I could feel him just wanting to show me, how much better than me he is. So It was up to me taking care of not getting hurt, not hurting him and not having any of my furniture damaged (since all of that took place in my living room). So actually he also was being a terrible guest. Later on we practiced again outdoors and I accidentally gave him a backhand slap (which was the counter of a failed attack from his side) - he got a cut on the inside of his lip and got so pissed that I had to stop our session. To me all that was a big lesson: Most people speak of having no ego, but the more they speak of it, the bigger their ego is. Great video! A good sparring partner has empathy and emotional intelligence.
"Hit as hard as you want to get hit" is straight up bs. That was my rule once but I ended up getting concussed from hard shots while i was throwing point karate sht hoping he'll "get the message". He never got the message so I took ALL of the damage
Sounds like a karate tourney I went to where one of my opponents blew his top because I landed...something or other, probably a sidekick, and he proceeded to try to take my head off for the rest of the match. Needless to say I lost that match. Karate sparring tourneys need to improve IMO.
Since you asked, I think I would define the rules of sparring etiquette like so: 1. No ego, you may be better at some skills but you are not a better person because of it, no need to prove anything. 2. No pride, you spar to learn, not to win, not to impress. 3. Transparency, agree to the allowed techniques and intensity. 4. Voice your frustrations, confusion or anger, do not resort to violence, punishment or rage. I think if you can't do these, you will cause problems sooner or later. If you decide someone needs to be punished suddenly, you have to TELL them why BEFOREHAND. It seems bad sparring partners can sometimes be skilled fighters but bad talkers, or they carry to much pride/ego.
personally i prefer using the statement: everybody goes home the way they came, keep each other safe. so this is used for friendly sparing, light sparing. i also like ramsey dewey saying "if you break your training partner - you dent get another one". oh yeah, about your sparing in the end of the video - i dont like legs grabbing while sparring slowly with slow kicks. its just not real, and might teach false ideas. its fine if the grabbing person knows he couldnt probably really catch it, but trains for the what if he could scenario, its not good if he thinks he won. you clearly kick very slowly in that part :)
Indeed, this was always something that was very difficult to convey in a sparring class: "Go half speed! We're just learning!" Well, if you see it coming, your instinctual reaction is to block/counter it! VERY difficult to respect strikes at half speed. 😕
This is why i think its really important to get people defensively responsible as soon as possible, the more faith you have in your defensive skills the more comfortable you are and i think its best done with beginners by taking turns in controlled sparring, slowish time. If people know that your going to take turns working defense they don't have to feel rushed or out of depth. Setting up that rule of taking turns in controlled sparring starts beginners off with the basics of a "conversation".
I always expalin the rules of sparring and Why each of them are there. Coaches, You have time. As a business owner I have lost students because they were punching bags for others, not good. Then...I personally "ref" the student's first few sparring sessions to make sure they are following the ruiles and politely correct them when they make a mistake. Also, when possible, I will partner a beginner with an experienced student because the experienced student is less likely to lose his shit over the new guy breaking the rules. New guys always start at 40% power so there's more room for them to inevitably escalate and can be stopped before they reach 100%. I have this "unofficial rule"; If you light someone up, someone will light you up. That one scares the shit out of the new guys if they don't try hard enough to follow the rules. Common (piss me off) noob mistakes. - groin kicks (yes new guys do that sometimes) - take downs during boxing or kickboxing only sparring - excessive force (its sparring not a fight) - cheap shots after the break (its a learning environment not a fight) - elbow strikes without protective gear. Even with control it is very easy to cut with an elbow. just a few things listed.
I completely agree with this. My experiences in Muay Thai put me off for many many many years.... basically "go as hard as you want" was the rule... not even "as hard as you want to get hit" so I landed a (definitely harder than needed) jab...and got leg kicked into oblivion and liver shotted into a vomiting mess. I can speak for "rolling etiquette" at a few gyms, the best was at Gracie Humaita Brisbane when it existed. Basically the rules were "ask your partner the intensity they want to train"... but low intensity and medium intensity was qualified as how much exertion and cardio work you're putting in and how much strength you're using. Eg, a light roll you shouldn't be out of breath ever, breathing easily, and not exerting your muscles to crank on anything....BUT...well placed technique based pressure is totally ok... if they have a very heavy mount and they're not squeezing the shit out of you.. ALL GOOD. There was this one guy I rolled with constantly and he had the most pressure I've ever felt in North/South. His hip bone would find your temple every single time...but he was always relaxed and if you found a poor placement of weight you would easily reverse him because he wouldn't try and muscle you down....now a "medium" roll...should get a bit of cardio out..maybe a few outbursts of speed..but no muscling...and a hard roll is just rolling. It was always very clear that you could tap whenever you felt uncomfortable and that must always be respected...so even if you're just under heavy side control you tap, that's it...nobody is allowed to get pissy about that. You're a white belt...don't try and do proper leg locks, straight ankle only. If someone was going more intense than you felt comfortable with I think out of all the gyms I've ever been to that was the only place that had clear rules on what was what, I haven't done the best job summarising but everyone knew
0:56 i think the reality of the thing is something like "what goes around comes around" or "f around and find out". The thing is, sometimes our sabomnim tells us to do some light sparring, let you moves develop, no need for broken noses, one of the partners gets jazzy and wants to punch and push harder than intended so, you will get hit hard back...
You should always understand what type of sparing partner you have. The reality is not everybody at the gym is high level and sparing with randoms can be super dangerous for both people. The amount of people I’ve seen who are complete beginner’s and the coach/advanced students does one lesson and makes them spar better fighters is insane. You shouldn’t be sparing until at least your 6th lesson with a chilled partner because it’s really a flip of a coin on what partner you get at gyms. Remember to stay safe and don’t be a punching bag for randoms you’re never see again.
In our clubs, the verbalised etiquette was always: protect your sparring partner, practice your specific training goals, and allow them to practice theirs. We make your responsibility towards the other guy/gal explicit and part of what we train (just like "being a good uke" is promoted in judo).
I do HEMA, so my general approach to sparring etiquette is to just try to touch opponents with the blade, never complete full rotation or follow through, but to go at realistic intensity on their weapon if you're doing something like a clearing action. If it comes to grappling any strikes are more shown than landed (fencing masks smash into faces real easily under percussive force), throws involve easing them down with control, or just breaking balance and acknowledging that as an end to the exchange. I really like the idea of etiquette as a conversation, and a misunderstanding is the most accurate description of most incidences of 'bad sparring' videos. IcyMike nailing it as usual.
What's that saying? "Sweat more in times in peace, so you bleed less in times of war." I interpret this to mean: train hard without getting hurt when the stakes are low, so when the stakes are high, you risk less injury. The more intensely one trains, the more one risks injuring oneself or one's training partners, sometimes permanently. My general rule of sparring etiquette - which is something I got from Ryron Gracie - is to go 100% mentally, but only like 10% - 20% physically with maybe small bursts of speed (not power) of up to 70%. I think this is true for grappling disciplines (e.g. wrestling, BJJ, Judo, etc.) as much as striking disciplines. In my opinion, what often determines the outcome of a fight/match is the difference in technical proficiency, mental faculties, and experience of the opponents than the difference in their physical attributes, so what's the point of increasing the intensity? I believe it's the responsibility of the instructor and senior students to set the culture of the intensity of sparring sessions. If I had my own gym, I wouldn't feel comfortable seeing my students fight intensely or seeing them get hurt. I would definitely address those situations verbally. Underrated topic.
As someone who’s recently had a very negative sparring experience (my rib got dislocated). I feel like this video needs to be watched by everyone who trains. If you’re high level or compete regularly but train in classes with hobbyist. You need to have this conversation with your partners either with words or with your strikes. And honestly I feel everyone should just err on the side of low intensity. Someone should never have to tell you “I don’t want to go hard” or “please bring it down”. If you want to go hard you need to ask
It seems super important that the coach clearly sets the tone and the rules for sparring conversations - so that students’ egos (or embarrassments) aren’t left with that task.
@hard2hurt Apologies. I do Krav Maga, we just practiced snap downs yesterday and do it occasionally in sparring, so I was just wondering if it's something we should avoid, because it sounded like it could be dangerous for the neck? Did I misunderstand something?
my 2 cent: establish the rules with your sparring partner before sparring. same thing with sweeps and takedowns, if the sparring partner isn't ready, you can injure him or her badly.
@@Bolling0 honestly as many things in life, I think the answer would be, it depends, of course dont go around trying to chop off peoples heads. But if you talked about it with your partners, decided a level of power that is confortable for everyone, and you give them like a second or two to prepare before doing the technique, i dont see why you couldnt train snapdowns on regular sparring. Be safe before anything else
That's not even a proper snapdown, but regardless, the issue was that move was a clear increase in intensity from the guy's light punch, the way he did the move can seriously injure the neck muscles if not prepared for it.
Icy Mike again with some of the most rational takes on Martial Arts TH-cam. This is where I think well understood sporting rules really help. But even then you need to be clear. Are you doing leg submissions? Throws? Norms are different between gyms, between sports. What's acceptable in a Judo dojo or wrestling room in terms of intensity is very different from a BJJ school. And old school boxing gym that does gym wars is very different from another place. The advice that people need to talk and communicate is invaluable. Just because I've been training for 40+ years doesn't mean I've been training the same way someone else has. I love the idea that there is no "right way" just the way both people agree to.
Thanks for the advice, Icy Mike! Just a week ago, I, 30 year old, got pummeled by someone half my age whereas I normally spar for technique. Your words have given me a lot to think about for my situation.
I’ve started asking people I’ve never sparred before we start to punch me in the stomach as hard as they want us to go, and if I’m fine with how hard they hit me then that’s how hard we go. If they hit too hard I’ll tell them i want it lighter. In Muay Thai the worst part is newbies catching head kicks and spazzing after, even worse if everyone thinks it’s funny and no one explains it to them lol.
sparring etiquette is communicating what's allowed - and what's not - making it ok to stop anytime - and for me having a contract that part of your job is to take care of your partners. When I see two people going intensely (or not) and coming out smiling it makes me smile.
I’ve had to have this conversation a bunch as a way bigger guy who normally spars with 170 and below people during normal workouts. I don’t mind it, I get to work on my defense and footwork a lot more. Also I’m in the background of that Saechai video, that’s still so cool lol.
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great video thank you
fun fact about the protein powder; if you are allergic to milk -not lactose intolerant, but allergic to the milk protein! - you can get cross-reaction from the beef protein, so be cautious and if you experience any allergic reaction, like shortness of breath, go for rice protein.
The golden rule a standard to live by, there is a reason it got the title. You're honestly a worrisome individual if you think it's stupid.
The problem is everyone forgets there is already a definiton for the act they are thinking about when they say "spar", it's called"
FIGHT!
So since that act is already taken, the word "spar" should either be less than or greater than "figth".
So which one is for you?
less than or greater than.
If its the former, then hit as hard as you want to be hit in a SPAR session, should weed out a lot of the confusion.
Either way, we have WRITTEN Rules for "fight", why not for "spar"?
I made 1 coms b4 this 1, if its missing, u know y.
-light to the head
- no elbows
- no knees to the head
-communicate with your partner and keep your ego in check.
Everything else is free game in our gym.
Even calf kicks? I heard new age gyms don’t even spar using them because of the risk of injury. Even with condtioning and rolling out to push the nerve down, they dont want to spar using them because of the damage accumulating over time throught multiple rounds of the calf geting hit over and over ever. That could cause a injury or even create one by killing the legs before they even have a chance to fight.
Very similar in my gym. No spinning elbows, you can mark your attacks with elbows but no strong hits.
Elbows are fine yall are just doing them wrong
@@judgegerald1275 Brother unless you mean wearing elbow pads then I’m sorry you’re wrong. Even if land with pure technic they still cut and cause pretty serious injuries even without malice intend
I avoid sweeps and strikes after catching a kick at least at full intensity just to avoid injuries
Main problem with the “sparring golden rule” is that most people have no clue how hard they’re hitting on any given day. Absolutely include myself in that.
Don't forget about the other person, friend.
i think sparring itself is a skill
mike mentioned it, alot of people have no idea what they're doing or not doing
they get excited and alot of what they are doing and thinking is kinda on autopilot
could be fear, or aggression or just overstimulation
so they're stiff and throw a hard punch, you match it and boom, he thinks ur just a jerk
but u get 2 guys who are comfortable, nothing to prove
both understand sparring is a laboratory and not a competition
you step back and can be like "woah" and other takes the hint and dials it down a bit
or a blind punch snaps and you say "all-good, lets go" and you both dial it up
i think its a skill developed to be able to be conscious of all that
ya i've been all of those people at some point
good sparring with someone i got to know
and bad sparring where i wasn't in control and basically went for a ride, got some bumps and didn't really know what happened or why
and we take mike's point... we kinda gotta communicate "yo take it easy today, i don't wanna go home with a migraine or cracked rib"
And also, some people want to get hit a lot harder than others! I spar with this Polish guy. Nicest guy in the world, but he ALWAYS tries to make it into a dogfight, because he just likes the hard spar. He CBA with touch sparring. If I was to tell him "only hit as hard as you want to get hit", he'd turn to me and say "...That's what I've been doing..."
This is absolutely it. Applies to everyone but 10x for beginners, which is totally understandable
Well, that shows you have a lack of experience or awareness of how you are effecting others. I have a lot of power because I'm a heavyweight, but I can spar with 95 pound girls or kids because I am acutely aware of how much force I am putting out, what they can probably tolerate, and what effect I am having on them. So you learn to dial it up or down according to the individual you are sparring with.
Sparring Etiquette- the senior fighters job is to make it a good session for the junior. Not to "destroy a rookie"
Generally speaking, yes. Exactly that.
@hard2hurt to elaborate, if the junior is good enough, the senior can also train and improve the closer the skill gap gets. But the senior should always be conscious of that skill difference in sparring.
Just my thoughts. You said it all better than me mike lol 😆
They also have a job to gently push the rookie. So if they keep making an error, make sure you point it out.
My rule with less experienced guys is that. If I land something 3 times then I’ll tell them why it is working and give them a tip to avoid it. Then if they smarten up I know I can push it a little.
Salute my guy
That's the closest thing to a rule that fits on a bumper sticker anyone is going to get. That's how I operate too.
The only rule of sparring etiquette is always go harder than your partner. I have low emotional intelligence btw.
Well it will either work out or it won't!
Maybe that’s why I get worked over. 🤔 🤣
Makes sense. The low emotional intelligence part, I mean.
Rule 1 from Jeff Chan.
@@ianlassitter2397 OP is joking lol
I think people dont want to explain the "rules" to anyone, because they would rather take the opportunity to actually hurt someone because ego.
That happens. That happens more often than anyone will ever admit.
Sometimes. The other thing is because they are the unspoken rules of their gym's sparring they assume they are obvious, "everybody knows no one had to be told". So whoever isn't following them is just a rude asshole. Also if they never list them the people in the gym might not be able to tell you what the rules are till someone breaks them
@@benhover9604 I've run into this. When I moved, I went school shopping to find a new one. First one i tested, I did a back fist to the head, no touch (it was light contact sparring). no one told me it was against the rules. Opponent shelled up like I went pull blast on them, and the instructor/owner came over. In his case, it was an insurance company requirement so I understood, but still should have made rules clear.
Bingo 🎯
If you would say SOME people I might agree with you, but most are not like that.
I found Ramsey Dewey's rules for sparring a good place to start: You break your sparring partner, you don't get a new one; your light isn't your opponents; you can tell your partner to go harder or lighter; sparring should be an exchange of information; you can break away to reassess then reengage
I have NEVER heard of a 'no punching in the clinch' rule, unspoken or otherwise.
Seems like a rule someone made up because they can't deal with it. I don't think the rule has any valid reasoning.
Right. The guys trying to knee you and pull your head towards his knees and you can’t punch him?? Crazy.
Yeah that guy just sucks at the clinch and the rule is totally made up.
me niether
Maybe they are training for a competition that doesn't allow that
I'm 54. I've practiced martial arts for about four decades. I am a hobby practitioner, not a fighter. I don't spar with active competitors so that I don't waste their time. When I do spar, I make it clear to my sparring partner (notice the word "partner" NOT opponent) HOW I spar. If we've never sparred before, for example, I get them to put their hands up in a shell and I hit them a few punches to show how much power I use. Not a lot. If they want to t-off on me, try to drop me, etc., I get through the round and thank them and pick another partner. If they're beginners or whatnot, I try to provide some direction. "Take it down a notch power wise when sparring with me; don't do technique X" etc. But that's me. Others may prefer traumatic brain injury because they are learning self-defense, and so it makes sense to give yourself early onset dementia in order to be ready when somebody jumps you in that bar you shouldn't have gone to in the first place. Each their own. (Anyway: this is one of your best videos.)
haha that second-to-last line
This is a great approach. Thanks for sharing your tips
Wise words brother
Well said. God forbid people talk about something before they do it.
Yeah ppl forgot the Japanese idea of uke. A person who is willing to lend you his body to train with. Treat that kindness with respect
Yessir! Where I train, we basically spend 2 o 5 minutes talking to our sparring partner and tapping each other to determine strike power and working out what we're allowed to do during our session. Seems to work great! It's all about communication
We refer to that as "calibration" and I think it's awesome that you do that.
Oh, and I'm totally gonna buy those supps you drink and try them with fruit in them like you did! LOL looked sooo good! LOL
That sounds great
I love the term calibration. I'm going to start using that.
"Hit people as hard as you want to be hit" is very stupid. Why would somebody else decide how hard I want to be hit?
It doesn't even hold up to basic scrutiny. It's the dumbest thing.
Well said
Counterpoint. I’m typically by far the largest person in my gym/dojo. Especially when sparring with new people, I tell them to hit me in the chest as hard as they want me to hit them. I call it Setting the Weight. People tend to go really light. And I’m able to do the same. But I’m at an age and place where my competing / fighting days are in the rear view …. The point of hitting as hard as you want to be hit is Supposed to be about the new guy being able to feel comfortable with it… IMHO.
Love your videos.
@@ONLYALEXISOMAR I know but my experience is that thisonly leads to ego fight
@@KnightrhymeYeah, we got the concept. Not really a counterpoint to his comment.
HEMA guy here with some time in MMA
I've found that in HEMA, people are not shy about verbalizing their wants ala etiquette, to the point where it was a bit of a culture shock when I switched over to MMA, where almost no one would say anything about that unless they were on the older or injured.
Doubly frustrating as a bigger dude who was new, as people would start wailing on me, and I would have no idea if it was because they wanted to go hard, if I had done something wrong, or if they were just trying to compensate for the size disparity with intensity
Wow. That sounds nerve-racking. It's funny how it's like this in most mma gyms... and not like this in any other place where adults collaborate and succeed lol.
Sounds pretty familiar to me. I've moved from SCA heavy fighting to a kickboxing, jiu-jitsu, MMA gym.
When the rules are that you need to hit someone with a rattan stick and strike with "sufficient force", it results in a conversation about what that "sufficient force" is (in practice at least, tournaments are a different story). I assumed it was because most of the people in that group understand that A. we all need to work the next day, and B. it's a small group and we want others to keep coming back.
I'm 6'2" 265, and pretty new myself. I can confirm that subconsciously people will just go harder against the big guy, not sure if they think they need to or if they think you can handle it better.
Gloves and shorts cost a lot less than armor, so with lower barriers to start, the average age is quite a bit younger. I've noticed the younger guys will sometimes wind themselves up, especially if they're anxious. You can figure out when this is happening as opposed to them escalating in response to you by focusing on defense, throwing jabs at their guard, and letting them run their offense.
I also do SCA heavy fighting and moved from one "kingdom" to another and even though I have been fighting a few years there was still a calibration check by the more experienced fighters when I started practicing with them to make sure I was hitting and taking appropriately for the region since the calibrations tend to vary a bit based on where you fight out of.
Same but opposite direction, going from traditional martial arts to buhurt (the MMA in armour you see clips of sometimes) and being told very quickly that I was going too hard even with the soft padded weapons.
That was because of a skill difference with weapons (which I didn't expect to be better at as the newbie).
But the MMA ego is still there, because the next session it was grappling instead, and the same guy had the advantage in mass and strength and broke my shin in revenge.
THEN I went to HEMA and discovered the difference you all found.
Also HEMA guy. I am a bit shocked with what I see in the video and read in the comments. In HEMA we also want to fight, we want to go hard, but we don't want specifically hurt or injure the other guy. Especially in sparrings. It's so often to hear "Are you okay?" during sparring or even tournaments, when one party landed a good painful hit to the other, but is worried if it was serious. The pain and injuries are the side effects, not the goal.
And with sparrings: yeah, just discuss what is okay and what's not. It's also a usual thing to ask if your partner is okay with your intensity or tell them that they can hit you harder and more confident.
Not a striking experience, but I recently rolled with a more experienced guy during a BJJ session. I ended up putting him in a triangle choke, and was about to finish it when the timer hit. Afterwards, I confirmed that he had indeed gone easy on me. As someone who loves to roll with more skilled opponents and go as hard as they are willing to, because it exposes genuine flaws in my game, I was somewhat disappointed. He explained to me why he likes to start easy on people, which I understood completely. In turn, I told him I had "hoped to get destroyed a little", and that I love to learn from true failure.
This week, we rolled again. He ended up submitting me with an arm bar. Afterwards, we had a chat about my mistakes and flaws in my technique (I had him in a guillotine for a bit, but didn't manage to force a tap). We stayed on the mat after the session, and he showed me some stuff from the position we had been in. I genuinely benefitted from this one sparring round and the follow-up. And if we hadn't talked about that first roll, none of it would have happened.
People think if they're the one that says "hey man, lighten up on those punches" then you lose at sparring
no one should be winning sparring
i used to be 300lb. people have hit me hard af when im genuinely just tapping them.
ive had to stop them in the middle of rounds and say "hey, just because im going fast doesn't mean im hurting you. relax" and then i show them the punches coming at them are just basically taps and patty-cake
it usually helps
Love this! I just hate it when they walk into your punch and you don't have time to pull it, or you're trying to pull off/work on something fancy and they have all the time in the world to set up the perfect kick. Too many times I got rocked because I didn't have the experience to read their footwork and ended up barreling right into their spinning sidekick.
I think its great that you gave examples of what a good sparring match would sounds like as an actual conversation
Thanks!
That sparring at 6:30 was so satisfying to watch. Purely focused on getting better. No ego, no escalation.
One rule we have is if I ask if you are sparring tonight and you say “No”, nobody asks why.
None of my business. You are paying to be here. If you don’t want to spar, lots of other people who do.
I encourage the class as a whole to spar, but individuals can choose for themselves
I watched this at 1.5x speed and your outro music sounds extra catchy
Shane just casually calling my video a little boring
@@hard2hurt lol, i for one thought it was incredibly insightful and way more people should think about these types of things so that it's easier for everyone to progress.
Your intro talk during your Hard Ready session really stuck with me. The idea that "you ain't a wimp if you tell someone they're going too hard, you're a wimp if you're afraid to" is one I've been trying to impart on my folks. Some people legit don't have good control, and don't know how hard they're going, and that conversation is useful and important. I'm in a lucky situation in that we're all friends and have been training together for a long time, so that conversation is easier. Great stuff, thanks.
A wimp, huh?
@@hard2hurt lol I was paraphrasing. That's how I said it when I imparted that particular form of wisdom.
My opinion on sparring has really evolved as I've aged and learned more. As a 19 year old getting into bjj and mma, I was coming in as 200lbs state champion wrestler. I'm big so I got paired with guys who were way above my experience level. I kept getting the crap beat out of me and had no idea why. People were always angry and I was young and dumb enough to not realize I was the problem. I'm proud to say a decade later I'm everyone's favorite sparring partner. Because now I communicate. I ask people what they are working on. I ask people how fast and how hard I should go. And then, I tell people what I want. If something happens that upsets me I say something about it. If I do something that upsets someone I make it obvious that I'm sorry and adjust. The sparring matches where I learn the most now come from smaller inexperienced fighters where I can tell them to let loose a little bit. They feel comfortable doing that because I'm not going to turn around and hurt them. I think the biggest rule is to take care of your sparring partner. Don't be the big dumb 200lbs spaz who can't check their ego at the door.
Sequestering fighters preparing for a match is probably the best idea. There are sometimes people who are good enough to do hard rounds with those fighters in your school but perhaps weren't planning on or interested in going to war. Like, some people just train for it's own sake. Also, that Saenchai sparring is golden.
It's one of my favorite memories.
Sharing this video with my students. It’s gold
The height disparity escalation is the bane of my existence. I'm 5'6" and it happened constantly. The level of intensity and commitment to a strike i had to work at to close the distance and score a hit was significantly higher when i was dealing with a dude at 6'+. That intensity causes an increase from my sparring partner and they'd escalate until we brawled. I hated it so much. In my 40s i'd be able to have the conversations now instead of letting my insecurity dictate that I can't ask them to ease up and have a conversation about why i'm coming across as too amped up.
Now I deal with depression and anxiety and there's a good chance that going that hard in sparring exacerbated those problems. Have the conversations folks. Save your brain needless trauma. Love that you're advocating the platinum rule over the golden rule by the way. Do unto others as they'd want you to do upon them. A thing you can only do if you have a conversation with them. I genuinely believe the golden rule is a detriment to our society.
Yeah hit as hard as you want to be hit has always seemed like bullshit to me. Any sparring class I've been in where the coach says that has inevitably led to a few people going super hard despite what anyone else may want. It's just asking for miscommunications. What if you want to get hit hard but your partner doesn't? It doesn't really count as etiquette to me if it's only factoring in what you want to do and not at all accounting for the needs of your partner. Etiquette should be all about communication and mutual understanding, which is exactly why "hit as hard as you want" is essentially antithetical to the ideals of good sparring etiquette.
It definitely doesn't count as etiquette... I think it's the _opposite_ of etiquette to only consider what you want.
@@hard2hurtiget the idea, bc you think that by hitting lightly, the other guy will hit lightly. But then the other guy's hitting hard bc he wants you to hit hard too. Comes down to cimmunication imo
'If you hit hard, expect to be hit hard'
No punches in the clinch is a great way to set someone up for failure. The most vulnerable you are to being hit is entering the clinch and exiting the clinch.
I agree but I can understand it from a certain perspective. If you're punching in the clinch you're opening yourself up to being elbowed but we don't allow elbows in the clinch. If the direct counter to punches in the clinch is banned then it kinda could make sense to ban the punches as well.
Out of my 14 years of fighting and training in different countries muay thai, k-1, mma, ive never heard of "don't punch in the clinch"
Obviously he's not good at defending it and just wants to hold the power in the clinch.
👍👍👍👍 “sparring is a conversation.” Dialogue. Not shouting, not one sided (metaphorically speaking). This video was spot on. Thank you
HARD2HURT UPLOADING FREQUENTLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
ish
@@hard2hurt I got a translate to English prompt on this. So apparently Google has an IceyMike to English...ish.
@@vermanshane translate to "work"
Hard2Upload not anymore
I used to train with a well known MMA fighter who generally went light in sparring, but had a few people he trusted with which to go harder. Close to a fight he was a lot more cautious as he didn’t want to risk getting cut.
Sparring is about trust with your training partner. Completely agree with the video. Breaches of trust generally preceded sparring issues.
I think people take sparring too personally and see it as a direct representation of their fighting ability. When it actuality it’s a conversation like you said. It’s about helping your partner become a better fighter while also improving yourself and intensity isn’t always the most important element of the equation
I sparred with a woman years ago and did my best to strike extremely lightly (maybe 5%-10% of my power) while maintaining correct technique, but she kept walking into punches for the whole 2 minute round. Now I know I should have stopped her and corrected her, but I was fairly new at the time and didnt feel like I could correct anyone effectively. The next time we sparred about a week later the coach came over and watched us intensely, which I thought was odd. I did the same thing and she again walked into every shot. He stopped us and told her that she had to stop walking forward straight into strikes and use her defense, in which she said I was punching too hard. I was dumbfounded as I had tried very hard to not punch hard, and found out later that she talked to the coach after that first spar and said I was hitting too hard. I switched to a painfully slow speed, as slow as I could go like I was playing with a toddler, though she still ran into some shots. I tried avoiding sparring with her after that. All of this could have been avoided early on if she had communicated with me the first time, and we could have gotten it worked out in that first sparring session. Preemptive communication has been my go to way to avoid sparring issues ever since.
Watching this video I realized that a big indicator of a good sparring "moment" is when people laugh. It may not be the rule, might not be always true 100%, but if there are people laughing (joyfull laugh, not someone making fun of others), having fun for what they're doing, that's a great sign
Great vid Mike! The Saenchai sparring session is amazing, love the energy
I see new details I missed every time anyone shows clips from that event.
The skillz in that last clip are absolutely gorgeous! And the communication! "I could sweep your leg right now." "Yeah, I know."
That’s what I saw that I really really loved. In sparring, you can show someone what *can* happen without actually *doing* it. If I throw a really stupidly telegraphed kick and you could absolutely destroy me from it, you don’t have to destroy me, you just have to show me that I opened myself up to that potential. Catching and holding for emphasis gives that moment of “Oh shit” and I can read between the lines from there.
When I used to teach karate I would do a few things to avoid problems.
1. Start people with lighter partner work or sparing to develop control.
2. Explain rules and prohibited actions.
3. Analyze and discuss after training.
4. Make corrections.
I don't know if these completely apply to MMA or other combat sports. But worked for my guys/gals in the karate framework.
When I used to train regularly I'd always ask my sparring partner if they were ok with how hard or soft I was hitting, and I'd always be vocal with them if I thought they needed to lighten up, or if I felt they could stand to go a bit harder. We also had a rule in both of my old gyms that if you weren't sparring at or close to full intensity, you would never complete a sweep if you caught a kick. You could show the sweep, but dumping someone after catching a kick they threw at 60% speed/intensity seemed pointless.
Communication is key here. I know a lot of people don't like to talk during sparring rounds, but I think it's always good to be giving verbal feedback if needed. I'm autistic, and often can't read someone's body language as well as others might be able to, so I don't always know if they're getting annoyed/upset/frustrated etc etc etc. I'd prefer someone tell me if I'm going too hard or doing something too wildly or wrong, and I'd also prefer to tell someone (politely and constructively, of course) if there's something I'd like them to adjust when they're working with me.
Sparring is play fighting for you to learn. When you’re in a serious fight you don’t learn because of adrenaline.
This is probably why alot of guys dropped sparring all together
The "hit as hard as you want to be hit" thing is what coaches say when they picked evenly matched sparring partners,the few times i sparred a heavyweight coach said he wasnt alowed to do much he was working on jab and slip or same thing if i was sparring a new kid, would just work on certain things ....i feel like shitty fighters that suck end up settling as coachs and sparring partners where they feel good whooping kids.
Shocking how many people cant or wont have the conversation. That's literally the same problem that makes relationships toxic too.
I’ve always told people: if you haven’t said something you don’t have any right to be mad. In my experience, 98% of people will tone it down if you ask them to, no problem.
Our Sparring rules generally had the instructors telling us each time.
Even in Brazilian Juijitsu the mae rules was you aren't going against enemies, you are training with friends.
We don't hurt friends. We didn't go full power as well. Also tend not to go for the head.
I do agree with asking the partner what they want to train at and the hardness of a punch.
Well... sometimes we hurt friends.
@hard2hurt yes, it does happen
@@hard2hurt but we should really try no to... at least not intentionally. Accidents happens, everyone of us, can shoot a punch a little harder than intended. But you aren't trying to kill your friend or cripple him...
@@GabrielMazzei01 I think what mike was trying to say here is, sometimes we must agree to go a little harder and try to hurt each other. He doesnt mean this in the sense of injury but for the sake of learning how to deal with pressure, because thats really important to know before you step in the ring.
@@GabrielMazzei01 I do fully agree with this. Sometimes we did hurt people however it was not intentional. That is a big difference than just going out and rage sparing.
I do full contact steel fighting (known as Buhurt or armored combat), and when we train and do sparring in our team, the least experienced fighter sets the tone of the fight.
We do technique first and then sparring. When we beginn sparring, we all come together and set the rules for this session. If we use take downs, clinch, fokus on a technique we practiced/learned bevore or do free sparring.
So everybody is on the same understanding.
Interesting. I can't really understanding letting the less experienced person set the tone. Maybe occasionally as a test, but as a general rule? lol no.
@@hard2hurt when a newer fighter sparrs with an experienced fighter, the newer one has to be more proactive and how hard and intense the new one will strike, the experienced fighter will respond to. The veteran can scale his intesity, the new one not so much.
In a tournament setting, you don´t hold back in our sport, so this is a safe method to test the boundaries and teach the veteran more control and observe the other one.
When both agree to treat it like a tournament fight (free sparring) then gloves are off and both know it.
This could be potentially very dangerous... rookies most of the time should be reminded to relax and slow down so the technique is right and safe.
@@intheshadows1623 Sounds like an easy way to fuck newbies up.
@@GabrielMazzei01 that´s why we train technique separate and in partner/group drills too. It depends what category you fight in our sport. One is more like boxing and the other is more like last man standing, counting wise.
why do you think it is dangerous? most of the time the rookie is out of breath after 20-30 sec into the round. (We wear quite a lot of protective gear, even in spoft kit sparring. like Icehockey protectors with MMA helmet kind of)
This is a beautiful and honest approach to this dangerous thing we have to trust each other to do.
I was kind of taken aback by the notion that the golden rule, or in this case "hit as hard as you want to be hit" isnt good enough. But the more i thought about it, you're totally right both on and off the mat. Not everyone wants to be treated the same way and the big problem with assuming everyone want s yo be treated like you is there is no communication.
On the mat (or literally any colabertative activity) your participating in something together so its important to have an agreement on rules even if it means compromise 👌
If you keep being open minded and thoughtful, they will take your commenting license away.
1:30 I think the “get hit as hard as you want to get hit” is an ATTEMPT (a bad one but still an attempt) to shorthand “be mindful of the power you are throwing in your shots. Because if you aren’t it will probably escalate.”
I’ve also never seen that “no punching in the clinch” rule.
I also think you hit the nail on the head in regards to emotional intelligence and communication. Even outside of fighting people in general have a difficult time discussing boundaries.
Baby dont hurttttt mee dont hurtt me, no more..
No promises.
WHAT IS LOVE!!!!!
I call my sparring partners "baby," too! And yet, they always try to hurt me.
I heard this comment.
Easily the best conversation about sparring etiquette I have heard in a very long time.
DON'T BE AFRAID TO TELL PEOPLE THAT YOU WANT TO GO LIGHT! I made this mistake by not speaking up, then I found myself in a hard sparring situation and broke two of my toes because I felt like I had to defend myself.
Sparring etiquette is something that NEEDS to be addressed in EVERY fight gym.
Isn't that the instructors job as well? If you own a school you ahould guide the sparring etiquette, no just let students figure it out.
Man, the last part. Seemed like you guys had so much fun.
Thank you! Everytime someone said that to me, anytime they took a clean hit, they got pissed off and went even harder
People that say it usually don't think things like this through very thoroughly.
The most important thing about Sparring, in my classes, is that each sparrer has a job. Each partner's job is to help their opponent get better even as they attempt to improve themselves. It is not an antagonistic relationship, it is a symbiotic relationship.
If you're bigger, smarter, or faster than your opponent, your job includes tightly controlling your power or speed, and attempting new combos or techniques you're not great at to improve them.
If your opponent is bigger, smarter, or faster than you, your job is to speed up, hit harder, move smarter, and get on your opponent's level.
In this way, you both have something to improve upon, and both know what the other guy is improving on.
Now, competition sparring is different. If you're in a tournament, or even if you have a healthy rivalry at your gym or dojo, you honor your opponent by giving them your best, understanding that a competitive opponent or rival can handle it.
I was getting ready for my latest boxing match and went to spar at a friends gym. The thing was organized this way: some light sparring between the guys who were not fighting and the guys who fought and three consecutive hard rounds. One of the guys started going really hard with me, and I outweighed him by 25kg. The round passed and the trainer said, “Hey pull it back.” The guy again started going hard while I was basically trying shit out and starts saying “Come om hit me. Hit me. Come on.” So I went left body hook, right body hook left head hook, his head spun around, his mouthpiece went flying. That was entirely my bad. I now think I shouldn’t have done that.
I think that the trainer that was supervising everything should have said more, but I shouldn’t have done that.
If you're visiting another gym, they most likely don't care about you at all. Protect yourself.
@ I learned that the hard way before my first fight when they put me 12 rounds with a pro with fifty fights.
In this other instance my friend was the trainer. My perception is also warped by the fact that I am generally heavier than my sparring partners so they feel free to go as hard as they want.
What we usually do in sparring is that we tell the guys; light on the head, heavy on the body, and heavier on the legs. And when evolving elbows, we have to involve headgear and elbow protection and not to go full force! Now, if you train in Thailand or trained, that will give you a clear picture of how you should spar, rarely you see someone getting hurt from sparring there. But you move to the Dutch school kickboxing it’s a different way to do it. Since that style was developed from Kyokushin and its all about power and being tough as a wall, they go hard in their sparring, the advantage result is that you will feel the actual pressure in real fight but from the other side there is a big chance you to get a brain damage.
As you mentioned, there are rules that need to be written because the purpose of the training or fighting isn’t to kill each other unless you are training for military combat purposes.
Thanks man for bringing this subject and big respect. 🙏🏻
A little verbal communication can go a long way. You can say things like, "can you dial it back?" or "you can go harder." in the middle of a round.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you is" meant generally, including for people arent just your training partner and who actually want to delete you. Your variation works well for when you're working with a person who is working with you as a partner instead of an actual opponent or enemy, cause an actual enemy would rather you do nothing while they beat the spit out of you or worse. Good video.
ty. As a general rule of thumb 'assumptions' are foolish, costly and even dangerous.
Explicit rules about sparring should be the norm. Boundaries are healthy in relationships in GENERAL but in this case quite literally.
We need them because there are some people that just don't get it, like the odd fellow who wants to spar hard with Saenchai.
I remember a guy who didn't tone it down after I asked him to. I hit him back hard and he cut it out but I was still mad. I shouldn't have to ENFORCE rules that we agree to. I am not a punching bag, and you are not a child. We respect each other by respecting the rules or I'm not going to play with you. End of story.
Bookmarking this video for the future, whenever I need to explain to people what spwreing etiquette really is, I'mma just send them this video. Love you man, you're the best.
Great video! I’m sharing this with my gym! I wish I had come up with this analogy sooner for my gym.
Just steal it and tell them you came up with it. My job is to support you lol.
@ a true gentleman but I gotta credit my sources haha
Just gotta say I'm an instant fan after hearing your explanation. I also like that respect and ethics are built into you explanation. I have trained at a few places that each had different rules
first muay Thai gym we had light sparring and heavy sparring and they had different rules
Light
- 20% strength (but more often hit as hard as you want to be hit and I have to agree this often times gets out of hand with the wrong person)
- Show the elbow or knee but no contact
- Show the sweep, don't do it
- no strikes to the back
Heavy - fighters only and only in the ring
- 50% (don't hit harder than you wanna be hit - somehow with the heavy sparring this rule seemed to work out better. Maybe due to maturity IMO)
- defend yourself at all times ( no punch to the back of the head, but if you turn expect punchs to keep coming)
- Sweeps are ok
- No knees or elbows to the head
Strangely I felt safer with the heavy sparring at this gym. The issue was "the conversation" as you put it. The 20% spars would often end up at 50-70% and you might just get an errant elbow or knee. And looking back a lot of that probably had to due with newer folks not knowing the un-written rules, and being told "hit as hard as you want to be hit" In my experience this often leads to people getting hit harder then they really want to be. And frankly maybe I don't want to be hit that hard. The heavy sparring you knew what you were getting into and the respect and professionalism was there so it rarely if ever got to out of hand, but that probably had a lot to do with the people sparring.
I also trained more recently at an MMA gym. The striking sparring was basically play fighting. Which was fun, I never got hurt and you still get good training.
- No contact, or just barely touch
- Sweeps if you agree and have space, and broadcast it for safety
- no takedowns or sweeps unless you have the space
The "Golden Rule Of Sparring" almost seems like less of a Rule and more of an Observation people internalized as a Rule.
You never see an example of a guy who wants to go hard, hits his sparring partner who wanted to go lighter hard so they could hard spar instead.
It's like the saying "Live every day like it's your last". It's not meant to be a literal rule, it's just an overly poetic way of saying "Do what makes you happy and appreciate what you have".
"Hit how hard you want to get hit" is just a poetic way of saying "If you try to sneak in a hard punch to satisfy your ego, the other guy will hit you hard as well"
This is such an excellent discussion! More people need to hear this because I think many people are either not sparring because they think it's real fight or getting hurt because they don't know what the agreement or goals are in the first place. Cheers!
You always have that one partner you say you’re going to go light and that lasts about 10 seconds into the round 😅
I always excelled at keeping it light sparring beginners, I think because my size intimidated them and they never spazzed out against me. I, however, have spazzed out against higher-ranked opponents in the past. One of them became one of my favorites to spar against, mostly because I hit nothing but air 95% of the time.😅
Of course I know him. He's me.
I MISS my sparring partners 😢 at my old gym....always a blast , always learning/ teaching and no one getting hurt or angry
Best sparring etiquette is: leave your ego at the door.
This is so true, my son and i love to box/BJJ/MMA, we go to the same gym, at home all pocket money/ who's doing dishes/mowing lawn etc. is on the line with gloves off a 3 min round. When he was 10 it was easy for myself to hold back and dictate which way i wanted it to go even through it seemed like he was fighting for his life. now he's 15 and its me who's REALLY fighting for my sanity and trying to come out the same way i went in. Lately i ended up looking at the backyard grass REAL closely, and we had to have an honest discussion as what training partners means controlling ones anger once you take a knock on the chin and deescalate instead of winding up slugging away. ITs the reason there's a referee in a fight Afterall!
I Feel the best gift you can give your sons, is the ability to defend themselves when you not around.
Posting after this point in the video 2:39 Number one rule of sparring in my book is communicate and check for understanding. Seems reasonable to throw a hard shot in response to a hard shot but how do you know that was intentional unless you talk to your partner? The more familiar you are with your partner the more you can depend on nonverbal cues but how much sense does it make to end up injured or hurting someone for lack of a "hey, those are coming in a bit hard, do you want that coming back at you?". The maddest I've ever been in practice is after a guy tried to hurt me in a spar because of a miscommunication. I had no idea there was a problem until after the round was finished and I asked him why he was trying to take my head off. Turns out he thought I "ignored" a light blow and took advantage of it but I don't even know when it happened because he didn't bring it up.
I’m
Not a fighter but from my
View the biggest issue seems to be some people trying to “win” sparring vs trying to get better
That seems to be a lot of it in a nutshell.
I learned recently that in many gyms it's rude to put the bottom of your foot in someone's face, even when going super light. I was proud un my kick but then my sparring partner looked at me like I killed his dog or something
Yeah you need to be very sure whether this person is your friend or someone you don't care about at all before you do that.
i remember that it's for thai boxing, as the soles of the feet are considered super dirty or something. kickboxing guys usually don't care.
@@outerlast yeah, that's what he told me, coming from savate and kickboxing I had no idea. Thankfully he was cool, so he just explained it and proceeded to nicely outbox me for the rest of the round
Did some 1-to-1 sessions with my teacher, where we sparred. I'm a newbie. He is a former professional boxer. He said that I could try to hit him as much as I wanted, and as hard as I wanted, and that he wouldn't mind. He said that I had nothing to fear from him. He said that as the rounds went by, he would tap me on the face with a jab or a light cross if I started to drop my hands. He said that if at any point it felt like his power or intensity was getting too much, I should shout 'no' and he would pull it back.
By the way, I tried for six straight rounds and I didn't hit him once. But this is possible when one of you is a newbie and the other guy is a pro fighter with 100s of fights under his belt. So much fun.
That guy gave you a tremendous gift during that session.
1:24 That's never what we said. He said start as light as you can without not actually touching them, and keep going up until they stop asking you to hit them harder. "Give it more gas. More. There ya go"
That is an excellent method.
The opposite side of "hit as hard as you want to be hit" is "drop your intensity to match your partner's", which is an unwritten rule in our school.
Mind you, different schools have different rules, as you said: in our school we encourage punching in the clinch, but we never catch the leg.
I just normally tell people to start slow and slowly ramp it up in intensity. I usually settle somewhere around 50%. But I do enjoy my "harder" sparring but only with people I've trained with before. People I know who don't get emotional while sparring.
after an exchange, if you feel good about it, smile at your sparring partner. If you get a smile, nod, etc back, you're both probably doing good. If not, maybe a quick conversation needs to be had. "Everything feel right?" Is a good start. This is how I always start with new sparring partners. This is how I do with old partners if I feel something is up. It's a great way to establish that etiquette with them. Above all, keep my ego and temper in check. If I can't, today is not the day to be training. Go home and figure out what's up. If they can't, don't push it. Politely bow out and try again another time.
I had a tendency to get excited.. I loved to brawl and had to constantly remind myself to calm down. There are some places that go balls out and are crazy but this can lead to unnecessary injuries. I always had heard the shootbox (if I remember right) camps went ham every session. I may be remembering that wrong..
Don't take it personal, but I already hate you 😂 I know exactly what type of sparring dude you are 😂
there's a reason why I don't sparr with people I don't know: you never know what kind of issues they have. Once I had a very uncomfortable partner who didn't have his ego in check and I could feel him just wanting to show me, how much better than me he is. So It was up to me taking care of not getting hurt, not hurting him and not having any of my furniture damaged (since all of that took place in my living room). So actually he also was being a terrible guest. Later on we practiced again outdoors and I accidentally gave him a backhand slap (which was the counter of a failed attack from his side) - he got a cut on the inside of his lip and got so pissed that I had to stop our session. To me all that was a big lesson: Most people speak of having no ego, but the more they speak of it, the bigger their ego is.
Great video! A good sparring partner has empathy and emotional intelligence.
can you oil up and slide around your room like a penguin?
You _can_ do almost anything.
@@hard2hurt plsss oil up pls oil oil plsss
@@hard2hurt Will you?
Oil up Slidey Mike
Olive or baby?
I wish more gyms and people understood this! Great job Coach!
"Hit as hard as you want to get hit" is straight up bs. That was my rule once but I ended up getting concussed from hard shots while i was throwing point karate sht hoping he'll "get the message". He never got the message so I took ALL of the damage
Sounds like a karate tourney I went to where one of my opponents blew his top because I landed...something or other, probably a sidekick, and he proceeded to try to take my head off for the rest of the match. Needless to say I lost that match. Karate sparring tourneys need to improve IMO.
Since you asked, I think I would define the rules of sparring etiquette like so:
1. No ego, you may be better at some skills but you are not a better person because of it, no need to prove anything.
2. No pride, you spar to learn, not to win, not to impress.
3. Transparency, agree to the allowed techniques and intensity.
4. Voice your frustrations, confusion or anger, do not resort to violence, punishment or rage.
I think if you can't do these, you will cause problems sooner or later. If you decide someone needs to be punished suddenly, you have to TELL them why BEFOREHAND.
It seems bad sparring partners can sometimes be skilled fighters but bad talkers, or they carry to much pride/ego.
That is the way. In one phrase... treat each other with respect.
personally i prefer using the statement: everybody goes home the way they came, keep each other safe. so this is used for friendly sparing, light sparing.
i also like ramsey dewey saying "if you break your training partner - you dent get another one".
oh yeah, about your sparing in the end of the video - i dont like legs grabbing while sparring slowly with slow kicks. its just not real, and might teach false ideas. its fine if the grabbing person knows he couldnt probably really catch it, but trains for the what if he could scenario, its not good if he thinks he won. you clearly kick very slowly in that part :)
Indeed, this was always something that was very difficult to convey in a sparring class: "Go half speed! We're just learning!" Well, if you see it coming, your instinctual reaction is to block/counter it! VERY difficult to respect strikes at half speed. 😕
This is why i think its really important to get people defensively responsible as soon as possible, the more faith you have in your defensive skills the more comfortable you are and i think its best done with beginners by taking turns in controlled sparring, slowish time.
If people know that your going to take turns working defense they don't have to feel rushed or out of depth. Setting up that rule of taking turns in controlled sparring starts beginners off with the basics of a "conversation".
I always expalin the rules of sparring and Why each of them are there. Coaches, You have time. As a business owner I have lost students because they were punching bags for others, not good.
Then...I personally "ref" the student's first few sparring sessions to make sure they are following the ruiles and politely correct them when they make a mistake. Also, when possible, I will partner a beginner with an experienced student because the experienced student is less likely to lose his shit over the new guy breaking the rules. New guys always start at 40% power so there's more room for them to inevitably escalate and can be stopped before they reach 100%.
I have this "unofficial rule"; If you light someone up, someone will light you up. That one scares the shit out of the new guys if they don't try hard enough to follow the rules.
Common (piss me off) noob mistakes.
- groin kicks (yes new guys do that sometimes)
- take downs during boxing or kickboxing only sparring
- excessive force (its sparring not a fight)
- cheap shots after the break (its a learning environment not a fight)
- elbow strikes without protective gear. Even with control it is very easy to cut with an elbow.
just a few things listed.
I completely agree with this. My experiences in Muay Thai put me off for many many many years.... basically "go as hard as you want" was the rule... not even "as hard as you want to get hit" so I landed a (definitely harder than needed) jab...and got leg kicked into oblivion and liver shotted into a vomiting mess.
I can speak for "rolling etiquette" at a few gyms, the best was at Gracie Humaita Brisbane when it existed. Basically the rules were "ask your partner the intensity they want to train"... but low intensity and medium intensity was qualified as how much exertion and cardio work you're putting in and how much strength you're using. Eg, a light roll you shouldn't be out of breath ever, breathing easily, and not exerting your muscles to crank on anything....BUT...well placed technique based pressure is totally ok... if they have a very heavy mount and they're not squeezing the shit out of you.. ALL GOOD. There was this one guy I rolled with constantly and he had the most pressure I've ever felt in North/South. His hip bone would find your temple every single time...but he was always relaxed and if you found a poor placement of weight you would easily reverse him because he wouldn't try and muscle you down....now a "medium" roll...should get a bit of cardio out..maybe a few outbursts of speed..but no muscling...and a hard roll is just rolling.
It was always very clear that you could tap whenever you felt uncomfortable and that must always be respected...so even if you're just under heavy side control you tap, that's it...nobody is allowed to get pissy about that. You're a white belt...don't try and do proper leg locks, straight ankle only. If someone was going more intense than you felt comfortable with
I think out of all the gyms I've ever been to that was the only place that had clear rules on what was what, I haven't done the best job summarising but everyone knew
No punching in the clinch??? That’s one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard.
0:56 i think the reality of the thing is something like "what goes around comes around" or "f around and find out". The thing is, sometimes our sabomnim tells us to do some light sparring, let you moves develop, no need for broken noses, one of the partners gets jazzy and wants to punch and push harder than intended so, you will get hit hard back...
That sparring session with Jeff looked so bad 💀 ouch
It was bad.
You should always understand what type of sparing partner you have. The reality is not everybody at the gym is high level and sparing with randoms can be super dangerous for both people.
The amount of people I’ve seen who are complete beginner’s and the coach/advanced students does one lesson and makes them spar better fighters is insane. You shouldn’t be sparing until at least your 6th lesson with a chilled partner because it’s really a flip of a coin on what partner you get at gyms.
Remember to stay safe and don’t be a punching bag for randoms you’re never see again.
In our clubs, the verbalised etiquette was always: protect your sparring partner, practice your specific training goals, and allow them to practice theirs.
We make your responsibility towards the other guy/gal explicit and part of what we train (just like "being a good uke" is promoted in judo).
I do HEMA, so my general approach to sparring etiquette is to just try to touch opponents with the blade, never complete full rotation or follow through, but to go at realistic intensity on their weapon if you're doing something like a clearing action. If it comes to grappling any strikes are more shown than landed (fencing masks smash into faces real easily under percussive force), throws involve easing them down with control, or just breaking balance and acknowledging that as an end to the exchange.
I really like the idea of etiquette as a conversation, and a misunderstanding is the most accurate description of most incidences of 'bad sparring' videos. IcyMike nailing it as usual.
What's that saying? "Sweat more in times in peace, so you bleed less in times of war." I interpret this to mean: train hard without getting hurt when the stakes are low, so when the stakes are high, you risk less injury. The more intensely one trains, the more one risks injuring oneself or one's training partners, sometimes permanently.
My general rule of sparring etiquette - which is something I got from Ryron Gracie - is to go 100% mentally, but only like 10% - 20% physically with maybe small bursts of speed (not power) of up to 70%. I think this is true for grappling disciplines (e.g. wrestling, BJJ, Judo, etc.) as much as striking disciplines. In my opinion, what often determines the outcome of a fight/match is the difference in technical proficiency, mental faculties, and experience of the opponents than the difference in their physical attributes, so what's the point of increasing the intensity? I believe it's the responsibility of the instructor and senior students to set the culture of the intensity of sparring sessions. If I had my own gym, I wouldn't feel comfortable seeing my students fight intensely or seeing them get hurt. I would definitely address those situations verbally. Underrated topic.
As someone who’s recently had a very negative sparring experience (my rib got dislocated). I feel like this video needs to be watched by everyone who trains. If you’re high level or compete regularly but train in classes with hobbyist. You need to have this conversation with your partners either with words or with your strikes. And honestly I feel everyone should just err on the side of low intensity. Someone should never have to tell you “I don’t want to go hard” or “please bring it down”. If you want to go hard you need to ask
not first but still quick, ill take it.
Thank you for your valuable contribution to the discussion!
It seems super important that the coach clearly sets the tone and the rules for sparring conversations - so that students’ egos (or embarrassments) aren’t left with that task.
Wait we're not supposed to do snapdowns?
Can you rephrase your question in a more honest, genuine way so that I can answer it? Or were you just trying to be funny? Hard to tell with text.
@hard2hurt Apologies. I do Krav Maga, we just practiced snap downs yesterday and do it occasionally in sparring, so I was just wondering if it's something we should avoid, because it sounded like it could be dangerous for the neck? Did I misunderstand something?
my 2 cent: establish the rules with your sparring partner before sparring. same thing with sweeps and takedowns, if the sparring partner isn't ready, you can injure him or her badly.
@@Bolling0 honestly as many things in life, I think the answer would be, it depends, of course dont go around trying to chop off peoples heads. But if you talked about it with your partners, decided a level of power that is confortable for everyone, and you give them like a second or two to prepare before doing the technique, i dont see why you couldnt train snapdowns on regular sparring. Be safe before anything else
That's not even a proper snapdown, but regardless, the issue was that move was a clear increase in intensity from the guy's light punch, the way he did the move can seriously injure the neck muscles if not prepared for it.
Icy Mike again with some of the most rational takes on Martial Arts TH-cam. This is where I think well understood sporting rules really help. But even then you need to be clear. Are you doing leg submissions? Throws? Norms are different between gyms, between sports. What's acceptable in a Judo dojo or wrestling room in terms of intensity is very different from a BJJ school. And old school boxing gym that does gym wars is very different from another place.
The advice that people need to talk and communicate is invaluable. Just because I've been training for 40+ years doesn't mean I've been training the same way someone else has. I love the idea that there is no "right way" just the way both people agree to.
Thanks for the advice, Icy Mike! Just a week ago, I, 30 year old, got pummeled by someone half my age whereas I normally spar for technique. Your words have given me a lot to think about for my situation.
Just love my gym, they're very clear and explicit and verbal about what they consider good etiquette and what is acceptable/unacceptable
I’ve started asking people I’ve never sparred before we start to punch me in the stomach as hard as they want us to go, and if I’m fine with how hard they hit me then that’s how hard we go. If they hit too hard I’ll tell them i want it lighter. In Muay Thai the worst part is newbies catching head kicks and spazzing after, even worse if everyone thinks it’s funny and no one explains it to them lol.
sparring etiquette is communicating what's allowed - and what's not - making it ok to stop anytime - and for me having a contract that part of your job is to take care of your partners.
When I see two people going intensely (or not) and coming out smiling it makes me smile.
I’ve had to have this conversation a bunch as a way bigger guy who normally spars with 170 and below people during normal workouts. I don’t mind it, I get to work on my defense and footwork a lot more. Also I’m in the background of that Saechai video, that’s still so cool lol.