Sandwiched Between Russia and China - Elbegdorj Tsakhia | Endgame
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No country is more fitting to discuss peace, diplomacy, and multilateralism than Mongolia. Despite being geographically and ideologically positioned between Russia and China, Mongolia has the means to stand up for itself and determine its own fate.
Endgame proudly presents Mongolia’s former President and Prime Minister, Elbegdorj Tsakhia. He was a central figure in the Mongolian Revolution of 1990-a revolution that transformed the country from communism to democracy without breaking a single window or shedding a single drop of blood.
In this conversation, President Elbegdorj and Gita cover a wide range of topics: how Mongolia maintains peace with its neighbors, why he believes that "war is no longer a tool to solve problems between countries," and the three main reasons behind the current global turmoil.
#Endgame #GitaWirjawan #ElbegdorjTsakhia
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Thank you to The Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs at Harvard Kennedy School for providing support for this episode.
Visit the link below to know more about research, ideas, and leadership programs for a more peaceful world:
www.belfercenter.org/
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About the Host:
Gita Wirjawan is an Indonesian entrepreneur, educator, and Honorary Professor of Politics and International Relations at the School of Politics and International Relations, University of Nottingham. He is also a visiting scholar at The Shorenstein Asia-Pacific Research Center (APARC) at Stanford University (2022-2024) and a fellow at Harvard Kennedy School's Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs.
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Content:
0:00:00 - Intro
0:03:19 - Life of the Mongols
0:15:21 - Mongolian Revolution of 1990
0:31:03 - President Elbegdorj's Secret Recipe
0:41:33 - Maintaining peace with Russia & China
0:45:56 - Gengis & Hulagu Khan
0:59:15 - Putin & Ukraine War
1:13:38 - Inside the minds of the Chinese leaders
1:18:57 - How to lead a country
1:23:44 - “Only Biden can stop Netanyahu”
1:25:20 - Spreading the message of peace
A man who slaughtered hundreds of millions of people was seen by the Mongols as the source of all honour.
Today that man is Netanyahoo, seen by at least 330 million as a hero.
Look at the actual result.
Do you call mongolia is a success as a country? Economically and in terms of its people's living condtion?
The answer is a 100% NO.
why? what happen in there?
Rusia position is right at the moment. The world must to be balanced. Dont let US and his proxy commit attrocities in most part of the world
Thanks utk podcast ini, Pak Gita!
Usul, Pak. Mgkn kedepannya dpt ditambah 1 program yg khusus mewawancara beautiful & influential minds dr negara2 lain di luar negara2 barat mainstream.
Contohnya dr benua afrika, solomon islands, etc.
Generasi muda kita perlu mengenal sejarah, politik, strategy & internal and external perspective dr negara2 tersebut utk kepentingan masa depan Indonesia.
Thanks prof gita, pengetahuan global politics di indonwsia sangat minim padahal ini oembuka wawasan moral buat rakyat apa apa yg terjadi di berbagai belahan dunia dan kmn arah dunia di masa depan. Stand aplause untuk BPK mau menjadikan ini bahasan daily atu weekly dalam channel bapak dan pandangan bapak dgn smua keilmuan yg bapak miliki,
sejak perang ukraina-russia, semua orang pada mulai ngikutin geopolitik.
pak Gita saya rasa saya akan selalu membutuhkan konten konten bapak😢 sebagai gen z saya serba jedag jedug ini terimakasih karna selalu membuat konten konten seperti end game, sehat terus dan panjang umur pak tolong ♥️
Not complacency, but American Arrogance or shall I say western Arrogance
What a load of rubbish from this guy. Mongolia is poor as hell and has no significant industries apart from mining; so much for "democracy". Inner Mongolia is literally more Mongolian than Mongolia itself both in terms of population and culture.
Thank you..very insightful
Good chat. Very interesting and insightful. Almost 20 years ago, I attended a conference in NY and DC, where the former leader also attended. I did not talk with him, but with his bodyguard. The parts on his childhood and the democratic transition are really wonderful. Thank you Sir!
Thanks for the show Pak Gita🙏💐
Thanks for being on the show!
Mongolia very close to my heart, it's in a rough neighborhood human rights-wise. Mongolian culture is wonderful, I'm too old to wrestle anymore but even if you don't, UB Nadaam is a must see! I can't vouch for airag, it is an acquired taste maybe.
Thanks Pak Gita 🙏. Your in-depth interviews with special guests are always enriching!
Inilah PODCAST BEKUALITAS.....LANJUTKAN PAK GITA....❤
Thankyou podcast nya selama kerja dirumah jadi g sepi.
Incredible conversation! Thank you Mr Tsakhia!
Pak gita. I would really like for you to have an in depth video visuals of you explaining Indonesias precarious situation in the early 21st century, and give us your opinion how we should move forward in the future, I'm very interested by how you would explain it and give us the breakdown based on your views how we as a country should move forward in this tight rope geopolitical maneuvering between countries.
luar biasa narasumbernya... saluttt 👍👍
This talk is actually interesting to me.
I've rarely heard from the Mongolian perspective, but now I know a lot about Mongolian history, modern Mongolia, and their perspective.
Mongolia is a landlocked country between two giants: Russia and China, arguably 2 of the most interesting countries of our time. Therefore, their insight into their neighbors is important.
I mostly share views with Elbegdorj on many things, including Putin. Like him, I think Putin also miscalculated when he started the invasion and thought it could be over in two weeks, then see a pro-Russian regime established in Kiev. Alas, it became a never-ending war and completely changed the geopolitical landscape of the world. They went from the most admired and feared country to now becoming a junior partner of China and finding themselves existential enemies with Europe.
I disagree with him, though, on Ukraine. I think they should have negotiated since 2022, just like Indonesia was negotiating with the Dutch during the War of Independence (Indonesia lost West Papua because of that in Konferensi Meja Bundar 1949 but regained it back in 1963).
One interesting factoid I found here is that "Genghis" means ocean, which is weird for a country landlocked by neighbors. Perhaps his dream of seeing the ocean was one of the impetuses for his conquest.
No, the Mongolian Empire had a navy; it also fought against Japan---but failed when it encountered a typhoon. So Japan calls this typhoon Kamikaze... During the Yuan Dynasty, the Maritime Silk Road was used by Mongolian commercial fleets to trade with Western Europe...
@@bate_khan I know that. Most Indonesians are familiar with the Mongols since they also invaded East Java in the 13th century. However, the Mongols were not known for building their own navy; they were mostly horse riders and only captured and repurposed the Song dynasty's warships and shipyards. You can find this information in one of Wang Gungwu's lectures on China, a world-renowned expert on Chinese history.
Putin did not miscalculate in the Ukraine war. The US did a regime change in Ukraine to force his hand. If he did not invade, US/NATO forces will be within a few hundred km of Moscow with flat land in between. The US and the West on the other hand miscalculated by taking on Russia and China at the same timè. They now find BRICKS hitting their heads with 2 nuclear powers heading it.
Podcast yang sangat bagus sekali👍👍🔥🔥,sukses selalu Pak Gita dan team...🤲👍👍.
fascinating
wow .. luar biasa
Semoga Pak Gita panjang umur dan sehat supaya bisa terus mendidik kami.
Former Mongolian President Elbegdorj Tsakhia discussed his upbringing in the Altai Mountains of western Mongolia, emphasizing the self-sufficiency of his herdsman family and the socialist-era education and healthcare systems. He shared his journey from a remote childhood to playing a pivotal role in Mongolia’s peaceful transition from communism to democracy in 1989, highlighting the significance of the democratic movement he helped lead.
Elbegdorj emphasized the unique aspects of Mongolia’s political system, contrasting it with China and Russia, and underscored the importance of maintaining democratic principles. He reflected on Mongolia’s rich historical legacy and the need for global peace and cooperation, critiquing the global increase in defense spending and advocating for dialogue and understanding facilitated by technology.
Elbegdorj also touched on the current geopolitical issues, particularly the Russian military’s perceived decline in effectiveness, and stressed the importance of multilateralism and peaceful conflict resolution.
Saya subscriber baru mau tanya, kok bisa beliau (p Gita Wirjawan) bisa mendapat kesempatan untuk berbicara langsung dengan tokoh" besar dari beragam negara, terimakasih
Karena dia sekolah jauh di amerika, pernah jadi menteri perdagangan, dan punya banyak jaringan. Dan punya visi untuk mencerdaskan kehidupan bangsa. Ini cuma sebagian kecil jawaban. Selebihnya tanya pak gita 😅🎉🎉🎉
@@Travelnatic 🤣
Pa Gita ...the best, niat banget mencerdaskan kehidupan bangsa, tidak seperti penguasa saat ini cuma mementingkan kekuasaan untuk anak n.kel nya dengan memelihara kebodohan n kemiskinan di negri ini , utk melanggengkan kekuasaannya, dengan bagi2 bansos, dengan memanipulasi APBN, yg notabene uang rakyat, utk kepentingan kel nya
Semakin keren openingnya
Superb! Thank you.
Luar biasaa
Gara gara pak Gita aku baca banyak banget buku serta jadi penderitaanku karena mentalku gak kuat terus kabur dari magang di Jepang
Penyesalannya adalah aku lemah
👍👍
Muantaff
Presiden itu tampak bangga sekali berhasil menumbangkan pemerintahnya hanya dengan kata mantra 'demokrasi'. Terus adakah hasil nyata bagi bangsanya? Yang jelas berhasil membuka 1 jendela untuk pencuri masuk dengan legal.
Монголдоо хэзээ буцах вэ?
Pak kok tidak ada terjemahannya.karna saya tidak bs bahasa asing.😂😂😂
Ujung kanan ada tempat utk seting bhs indonesai
pak kasih translate indo,saya masih belajar Inggris 😅
Mongolia maybe had a successful politics transition by this man, but actually it is a disater for mongolia. Until now mongolia still hasn't learned a little geography and geopolitics. It will never develop & progress like Indonesia, Vietnam unless their mindset changed.
Kunci Mongolia sukses bertahan dari invasi Cina adalah dengan menjadi satelit Uni Sovyet di masa lalu beda dengan Tibet dan Turkestan yang tidak punya patron seperti Mongolia.
Do Mongolia has any ambition to invade China again like they did so frequently in the past?
Does he know the what is causing the “wars”? Go back to his hut and read.
This guy is quite interesting: he has an positive view about Mongles giving other people choice to surrender before being killed, but Putin did the same thing，giving the choice to Ukraine. But with a big difference that match the modern values: Putin just asked for removal of threat from a none peaceful military organization NATO, aggression could stop.
2nd thing is the guy sounds like loving peace but NATO is not a peaceful entity who often preempitively attack other countries. If Russian invade the peaceful Mongle that's quite different case because Russian use force against a peaceful nation. That is totally wrong. However when dealing with Ukraine who is associated with NATO, an entity who accept the rule that permit preemptive attack, then being attacked preempively should be expected.
I'm not saying Putin is right. Actually I'm against what he did. What I'm saying is all those democracy loving people seem dont have reflection capabilities,don't have a sence of hypocricy
🙏🙏👍☕
wow! another colour revolutionist!
What does that mean?
@@BookCafeWorks This means that valuable resources and enterprises will fall into the control of multinational companies
@@user-kc4wb1ce1f what?? no wayy
Studied in western Ukrainian😂😂 Please now come back to europe and help us fight the globalist elite.
He is wrong about Russia and China and Mongolia is a basket case.
This guy promotes Genghis Khan like some god.... didnt history record how the Mongols leveled entire cities and killed everyone who did not surrender?? Also the Mongols conquered and ruled China for centuries before it was overthrown. Anyways I prefer a more balance discussion but this guy is very nationalist almost extremist and of course he probably did wonderful things for Mongolia during his time but than let not just simple keep singing the praises of Genghis Khan when history painted the a very different picture of how to subjudacate and rule by fear, its similar to how the Japanese did during WW2 to the civilians under its rule.
Genghis Khan/Temuchin killed 40 million people., the biggest killer in the world
Invade most of Asia and Europe.
He is actually a chauvinist
Not several centuries, just less than 100 years.
Mongolians need a national pride. Unfortunately they only have the world worst murderer to worship.
Mr jokowi is Bos...
Trump next 🎉
Semua ada karma nya dulu mongolia menjajah banyak negara
I want to say but I'm not ❤️🇷🇺🇨🇳🦾😇
Trump next
Obama next..,.
Disgusting! 🤮
Nope
why inviting warmonger?
Here are a few additional points:
1. From the 1930s to the 1950s, the former Soviet Union did massacre Mongolians with the same surname as Genghis Khan and Borjgin in Mongolia. At that time other Mongolians were afraid. So now all Mongolians in Mongolia put their father's name in front of their own names---so President Elbgdorji's full name is Tsakhia·elbgdorji. The Mongolians in the past put the name of their tribe in front of their names...The Mongolians in Inner(ubur) Mongolia, China, have retained this tradition...
Both the Mongols in China and the Mongols in Mongolia have experienced great purges and massacres...because both Russia and the Han people（Hitad Undusuten） in China are particularly afraid of the rise and development of the Mongols... .Because the Mongolians have ruled these two ethnic groups and countries...and it was the people of these two ethnic groups who betrayed the Mongols and seized the ruling power of the country. Therefore, both China and Russia exclude the Mongols... To this day, the Mongols are still living under their rule...
2. President Elbgdorji’s description of China’s Han people is not accurate enough. China’s Han people (currently China’s actual rulers) unconditionally and without bottom line worship countries or nations that are stronger than themselves. As long as the United States is a powerful country, China will always give in... If the United States strongly opposes it, the principle of one-party rule may also be abandoned... But accordingly, it will control the country in a secretive and gentle way. Just like the concept of "one country, two systems", the policy promised to control Hong Kong and Macau first... and then slowly implemented its own tough policies 20 years later.
China's attitude and style of dealing with the United States and Russia, countries that are stronger than itself, and Mongolia, a country that is weaker than itself, are completely different... There is a unified pattern. .
China treats the United States as an example:
The first step is to have a good and obedient attitude towards the United States, and agree to many conditions (90% positive attitude, 10% negative attitude); it is easy to gain the trust and support of the United States. Human beings have always had an inertial thinking... thinking that the initial attitude A good person will always do good things, or will not do things that are harmful to himself. China just takes advantage of the inertial thinking of the United States to create favorable conditions for itself. It first strengthens its own country's strength and lays the foundation for resisting the United States in the next step.
(1972~2008---China's attitude towards the United States during this period was to fully cooperate and learn from each other. In 1997 and 1999, it used the vague concept policy of "one country, two systems" to gain the trust of Western countries, and took back Hong Kong and Macau respectively. At that time When China was short of money, it used the Hong Kong stock market as a "cash machine". After China entered the WTO in 2000, its economy developed rapidly. After the establishment of the Olympic Games in 2008, it became an economic and military power.)
In the second step, the positive attitude towards the United States is 50%, and the negative attitude is 50%... At this time, China's own strength has been strengthened by taking advantage of the trust and support of the United States; China now has a certain say. At this time, the attitude towards the United States is not so positive. The most important landmark event was Google's withdrawal from the Chinese market in 2006. It's just that the US government at the time was not alert and did not intervene in this matter. If the U.S. government could have paid enough attention to this matter at that time and not allowed Google to withdraw from the Chinese market and further brought American social media Facebook and Twitter into the Chinese market, the confrontations between China and the United States in recent years would not have happened. Because China's one party cannot control the domestic people. China's democratic development is much better than it is now. (From 2008 to 2018, the popularity of China’s Internet technology and mobile Internet technology and a large number of Chinese Internet technology companies were listed on the U.S. stock market. Chinese people have become extremely rich, China has a lot of talents, and China’s manufacturing industry Also perfected)---With these advantages, China's goal of resisting the United States has entered the next stage.
In the third step, the positive attitude toward the United States is 20% and the negative attitude is 80%. (Actually, this stage started with Google’s withdrawal from the Chinese market in 2006. In 2014, China’s “One Belt, One Road” policy was prepared for extremes. The trade war between China and the United States in 2018 officially started China’s entry into the stage of confronting the United States) --- The Chinese plan things in detail and will not take risks; if they are weaker than the United States, they will always do things in a low-key manner. China bribes enemies of the United States to continue to resist the United States, or creates confrontations between various American companies to weaken U.S. interests; it uses social media such as TikTok to promote negative remarks about the United States, and so on. Taoism, the traditional Chinese culture, is a culture that particularly advocates water. Therefore, their thinking mode will deliberately imitate water---water can nourish all things to grow. Animals need to drink water, and plants also need water to grow...On the other hand, water After gathering, they form a river, which is very destructive... The Chinese also have such duality; the Chinese are particularly good at doing things well. Similarly, when Chinese people do bad things, they are still very destructive... So the United States needs to build water conservancy facilities and control China just like it controls rivers.
China’s relations with Russia;
The alliance or confrontation between China and Russia is more complex. On the one hand, Russia is the largest country that has invaded China's land. On the other hand, when the People's Republic of China was first established, the Soviet Union assisted China's entire industrial manufacturing country, including helping China manufacture nuclear weapons. The Soviet leaders at that time had the same thoughts as the American leaders in 2000. They believed that China was too poor and needed external help. China also showed a very pitiful appearance and easily gained their trust. Later, as soon as China gets benefits or becomes stronger, it will immediately turn against it, becoming ungrateful and immediately turning into opposition. So in 1969, the conflict between the Soviet Union and China intensified (the Soviet Union mentioned in this video that it had 100,000 troops stationed in Mongolia was at that time), and there was a battle on Zhenbao Island in the northeast of China. The Soviet Union still wanted to Attacking the Chinese mainland with 1,000 atomic bombs and 100,000 tanks, my father had the experience of digging trenches in the Ulanqab area of Inner Mongolia when he was young. Later, it was said that the Soviet Union did not attack China with atomic bombs due to the intervention of the United States. Later, with the disintegration of the Soviet Union, Russia's strength was not as strong as before, but China has always relied on Russia to fight against the United States. Since there have been many wars in the history of the Chinese Han people, most of which were caused by external forces attacking Chinese regions, the Chinese Han people have an inherent sense of insecurity. They are afraid of being invaded, afraid of being massacred---so their vigilance is particularly high. Before the Ukraine-Russia War, the Chinese government particularly liked Russia's toughness, so it purchased a large amount of Russian weapons and Russian energy. At this time, Russia was in a dominant position in the relationship between Russia and China. But after the Ukraine-Russia War, the relationship between Russia and China was dominated by China. Due to the strong influence of the United States, China cannot provide many of the materials Russia wants or can only provide them secretly. China’s plan is to get as much benefit from Russia as possible. China’s real thinking is this: if Russia is defeated and disintegrated, it will strive to take back Sakhalin Island and other places that Russia occupied in modern times. If Russia wins, there will be an opportunity to use Russia's military power to strengthen China's own military power and prepare to attack Taiwan---but China is very cautious in this matter. Another main reason why China is hyping up the topic of Taiwan is to Just find an excuse to unite domestic officials and people. This is the same road as building the Great Wall. The reason why ancient China built the Great Wall was not only to resist external forces like Mongolia, but more importantly, to prevent the people of ancient China from running away in the direction of Mongolian forces. Because droughts often occurred in ancient China, agriculture was damaged and there was a serious lack of food. There was a phenomenon of cannibalism in ancient Chinese history... It even happened in 1959... But it is different in Mongolia, where there are many cattle and sheep... People living in Mongolia have never been short of food. of. . .
China’s relationship with what is now Mongolia
As for Mongolia, which is between China and Russia, it is said that Mongolia implements an independent policy... but it does not have much say in taking the initiative to make decisions, whether it is during the period of President Elbgdorji or the current period of Prime Minister Eoyonerdene; it is soft by China or Russia. Sexual control is very strict - this is the tacit understanding between China and Russia towards Mongolia. But the soft control policies under President Elbgdorji and now under Prime Minister Oyunerdene are different. During the period of President Elbgdorji, China's policy towards Mongolia was "colonization of raw materials and minerals", as long as the equivalent of Mongolian minerals was purchased. It will not make Mongolia suddenly rich, nor will it make Mongolia too poor. Therefore, under the leadership of Chinese companies, a "mineral theft case" occurred. In this case, Mongolian government officials may have received hundreds of millions of dollars in bribes, but the value of the stolen mines was less than US$100 billion. As mentioned above, the beneficiary is of course China. However, the people in Mongolia did not hold Chinese companies accountable. Instead, they accused Mongolian government officials. The Chinese believe that the money should be theirs because Mongolia has not paid transit fees when importing or exporting materials. I personally judge that President Elbgdorji at the time was wise because he used this huge mineral price to gain China's trust and successfully implemented Mongolia's democratic national policy and "third neighbor" foreign policy. Strengthened diplomatic relations between the United States, Japan and European countries - strategically this policy was successful. Now under Prime Minister Oyunerdene, China's control over Mongolia may be stricter and more implicit. For example, China provides low-cost Internet technology services to Mongolia to obtain Mongolian user data for control, and uses Internet thinking to control Mongolia. For example, they persuade Mongolian officials to carry out a large number of road construction, real estate construction, etc. to consume Mongolia's meager fiscal revenue and continue to make Mongolian officials very rich, but the people of Mongolia are very poor... Such a gap between the rich and the poor As a result, young people or children in Mongolia cannot receive a good education, Mongolia cannot establish its own manufacturing industry, Mongolia cannot establish its own Internet companies, etc. Because the education level of the people is very low, many Mongolians have very primitive cognition. They still insist on protecting Mongolia’s nature and land integrity. Resisting foreign companies from investing and mining in Mongolia... This resulted in high investment costs for foreign companies other than China in Mongolia... Finally, after driving away these foreign companies, Chinese companies invested in Mongolian minerals at low prices and obtained the largest profits. Benefit. These are small strategies, but they work well for the Mongolians who have too simple ideas... But the assistance and protection of the United States, Japan, and European countries are key factors in Mongolia's development. The development of Mongolia and the Mongolians is also very beneficial to the United States, Japan, and European countries. On the one hand, mineral resources, and on the other hand, the rise of Mongolia will have a certain strategic deterrent effect on China. It also has a strategic deterrent effect on Russia... However, the assistance methods provided by the United States, Japan or European countries to Mongolia are not very good. They need to teach the Mongolians how to make money and how to develop the industrial economy, instead of giving money directly... directly As for the money, Mongolian government officials have simply been corrupted, and no amount of aid will be enough. The correct approach is to support Mongolians with business acumen among Mongolians working or living overseas, and provide them with funds to start businesses...with very little money, you can help Mongolia and at the same time get good returns on your own investment. Return... In modern society, if any nation or country wants to develop, it must have the smartest people and the hardest working people to control resources and money. Why is Mongolia developing so poorly now? The main reason is that some people who drink and are not very smart are in key positions in the Mongolian government. After they have power, they immediately want to use it to make money. After they have money, they like drinking, picking up girls,... ...have no energy to think about how to develop Mongolia and how to make other Mongolians rich...
As a Chinese, your comment completely lacks common sense, even though it is lengthy.
Through your extensive comments, we can actually see a fact that the Mongolians are good at robbery but do not understand trading. The price of ore in Mongolia is not arbitrarily priced. In addition to Mongolia, Australia, Africa, India, and Latin America can also provide ore. Whoever has a lower price, China will purchase whose mineral. As for whether the money received by Mongolia is embezzled, road construction, or education improvement, it is Mongolia's own responsibility. China has the responsibility to consider any issues for Mongolia. Whether Mongolia is poor or wealthy, the United States does not care about Russia, nor does China. Only the Mongolians themselves consider minerals as their trump card, as if they leave minerals, the world will collapse,
狗屎，一点逻辑都没有