Hopefully, once Cosmoteer gets the recognition I feel it deserves, your channel will serve to provide advice to newer players. I'm looking forward to seeing this technical aspect of ship building being expanded upon with the upcoming overhaul of Cosmoteer. Very excited to see how this game in its final product will turn out.
Holy crap, that's amazing! I just picked this game up Thursday and I'm glad I did! I thought it was going to be a "simple" space ship game, but noooooooo, it has depth for days! Thanks for posting this.
I was playing the demo and armor weaved on instinct. Later on I went to redesign my ship and removed the armor weaving. The very next battle I got into they shot straight through the armor that was no longer weaved and destroyed me pretty much instantly. Took some head scratching to figure out what I had done and to re-implement armor weaving.
This is really good, I always used 1x1s on my ships for the sake of easier placement of components (I build corridor/shape, then armour, then components) With this I might be able to create even stronger ships and mega ships.
Great visuals on this explanation! And awesome game! I just downloaded the demo on steam and I now know what the next 20 hours of my life is going to be.
I’ve been building multi-million credit ships for a while now, and have always used exclusively wedges and 1x1s. Thanks for the info! Sidenote, said ships i’ve been building have been using every weapon, excluding small cannons and ion beams. Yes, that means i’ve been using railguns. Should i be using exclusively ion beams instead of exclusively railguns, or a mix of both? edit: by exclusively, i mean that the middle of the front of my ships are exclusively railguns currently. i still have other weapons.
All weapons have strengths and weaknesses. Rails have long range and burst, but suffer when needing to get through a lot of defenses. Ions have super good sustained damage, but have a lack of range, etc. One option is rarely outright superior. Hybridization, or having both weapon systems gives you flexibility at the cost of raw power
Is it more effective to have an armor weave that is at an angle to enemy fire? For example taking hits at a 30-45 degree angle to the incoming fire instead of 'head-on'?
The reason why armor weaving is effective is because it forces weapons fire to hit more 2x1 armor blocks than any other design. There for needing to burn through a larger pool of HP before passing through to the next layer. So if you can figure out a pattern that catches weapon fire by more individual 2x1 armor blocks, then yeah, it would be better.
Wasn't walt planning on removing 1x2s or are they getting saved afterall, since if they are getting saved, might use armor weaving for whatever megaproject I come up with when the game fully releases
@@SarisWinterwisp Yeah I remember him talking about possibly removing them at one point hence why I asked, wasn't sure if he had confirmed it yet or not so yeah :P
I'd like to see a comparison between weaving horizontal and diagonal if you've not done it already, But thanks for this, very good proof of weaving benefits, now let me go change from single blocks!!! lol
The only problem I have with this demonstration is that it's 8 layers thick armor.... And that in fact the effect only shows when it is that thick. Most weapons still seem to penetrate 4 layers deep in roughly the same amount of time. So I guess armor weaving only matters when you're building huge ships
The purpose of using lots of armor is to show how it stacks up over time. You are correct in that there is minimal effect, but it adds up and is easy to do, and as the thumbnail demonstrates it can still take effect with as few as two layers. A lot of competitive ships do have similar levels of high frontal armor, such that there can be massive rather than minor differences if you weave of not
Also, something that coudl be a cool update in future is if they had a armor integrity system that can disperse damage to adjacent armors that would probably make weaving stronger but might not make it that strong
2 layers is all you'd need to effectively have an increase in defense from weaving armor from weapons fire that's coming in perpendicular to your armor. That's because a 2x1 block of armor is 8000 HP no matter where you hit it, so if you weave the 2 layers, perpendicular fire has to penetrate 24K HP instead of 16K HP if you simply stack it (or worse, 12K HP if you stack 1x1 armors). Things change when the weapon fire is angled and not perpendicular but you're more likely to face perpendicular fire than constantly angled shots imo.
I just downloaded the demo and I'm confused. At around 6:54 you said that new players struggle against railguns. How do new players struggle with railguns if they're not available in the demo?
@@SarisWinterwisp Oh shoot when I downloaded Classic I was greeted with a message suggesting I should pick up the demo instead so I figured the Demo had all the bells and whistles.
i’m coining the term “bricked armour” :) btw, what about 33% offset? (like how brick walls are irl structures.) How would the 1/3 offset compare to 1/2 offset? I’m a bit interested but don’t have the time to test it lol. - Qawa
A bit, but not in a super effective fashion. If you're trying to counteract nukes specifically having small armor caps connected by structure are usually more efficient
@@lidltraut8258 Worth noting that it's almost always superior to dodge nukes than tank them. They will crunch through armor and shields quite easily, and they're one of the most easily dodged weapons in the game
Burst damage and disruptors/EMP missiles go through shields relatively quickly, while armor doesn't have any direct counters. Shields also require a power source nearby to be effective which can mean putting your reactors close to the edge of your ship where they're vulnerable. Of course armor can't protect surface turret weapons, meaning you have to use ions, rails, missiles, or the upcoming deck cannons. They both have their uses.
Well there isn't that much difference, regular weaving works, just weave it facing away from your ship. (Assuming your ship points up and left) Your left side should face up and your right side should face right
@@SarisWinterwisp But If you had a diagonal ion beam ship you didn't want to turn and were taking damage head on you would be better with un-woven armor... Weaving armor essentially tilts the armor layering 45 degrees (puts more blocks in the bullet path and narrows damage gaps) which a diagonal ship already has naturally. So weaving should actually weaken the defense from the front while strengthening the defenses from 45 degrees diagonal.
I’m always going for regular, I want the least damage on one armor, I don’t get laser beam enemies, cause you can kill em fast enough with shields and cannons
Wow, this is an absolutely overpowered strategy that I have never been paying any mind to (I always just spammed as many 1x2 armor on my ships as possible). Will definitely use them later if I do not care for this game's meta much (However I still care for efficiency). Also, does this arrangement work on diagonal ships or does the 45 degree angle mess with or even improve the effectiveness of the bricked armor?
Hey Saris, thx for the interesting guide. I hope there are more to come! Ive seen that on the Monolith Executor, there is no armor weaving on the front sections. Is that intentional? Thought i might ask since you made it :p
@@SarisWinterwisp Ah okay. Nice to know. Do you know a way to transfer crew roles and squad orders from a blueprint into career mode? Doesnt seem to work.
Spaced armor is actually pretty complex with a lot of it's interactions. You are correct in that it's resistant to AOE more so, but trying to mention it would require it's own video
@@SarisWinterwisp do you think that a more detailed armour model / simulation would benefit this game? For example, angling the armour against projectile weapons like the cannons can cause ricochets, and also when angled against explosive type weapons the damage is reduced depending on the angle.
@@SarisWinterwisp Would love to see a spaced armor guide. I'm watching this hoping you said something about it and it's also why I'm in comments :) Also thanks!
I would argue in situations where armor blocks are on a corner, it might be best to do 1x1s, as the remaining armor from one arc of fire will protect you from another arc of fire, whilst weave wont protect it as well because it'd be spent on protecting from that single arc of fire. But I do agree if you are armoring a long surface its best to weave.
Checked with newer video. Still: Videos way too quiet. You can easily add 2 to 3 db on top of your current loudness and then you would achieve a good balance for all listeners. Those who twist knobs and volume sliders constantly will usually not have to if they encounter good mastered videos. Headphone users hear everything no matter how quiet your audio will be and the rest will be thankful to not have to constantly think about not forgetting to lower the volume again after your video(s). Stay crunchy.
Thanks, it's hard to try and find a good balance, especially since my microphone is actually a headset that's been chewed on by a cat 😅. I'll try to fix accordingly
@@SarisWinterwisp Heya. Depending on the tool you're using you should've audio tools built in. If not, 'DaVinci Resolve' is a great (free) professional tool. The usual thing to aim at is your loudness being around -12db. I personally feel -10db or even -8 to -7db for quieter voices much better. -12db is usually fine for musical content -10db usually for general audio content that evolves around talking. I think you should be just fine with -10db. That level of audiolevel will cover headphone, speaker and boxes/monitor users. Sure, it's not perfect but you're not someone who needs perfect audio ^^ Oh, I forgot: Loudness is not master-output. Most integrated audio tools should have a loudness meter too. Stay crunchy.
This feature would be very nice if you actually could bring weapons inside the ship like this its pretty useless why armor when i can have more missile launcher
Hopefully, once Cosmoteer gets the recognition I feel it deserves, your channel will serve to provide advice to newer players. I'm looking forward to seeing this technical aspect of ship building being expanded upon with the upcoming overhaul of Cosmoteer. Very excited to see how this game in its final product will turn out.
:)
It did! I bought it after seeing it the first time, probably because it just shot up in popularity
Holy crap, that's amazing! I just picked this game up Thursday and I'm glad I did! I thought it was going to be a "simple" space ship game, but noooooooo, it has depth for days!
Thanks for posting this.
I was playing the demo and armor weaved on instinct. Later on I went to redesign my ship and removed the armor weaving. The very next battle I got into they shot straight through the armor that was no longer weaved and destroyed me pretty much instantly. Took some head scratching to figure out what I had done and to re-implement armor weaving.
This is really good, I always used 1x1s on my ships for the sake of easier placement of components (I build corridor/shape, then armour, then components) With this I might be able to create even stronger ships and mega ships.
As a new player this is amazing to see! Such a simple concept can upgrade your ship for free if you use your brain right. Amazing stuff
Great visuals on this explanation! And awesome game! I just downloaded the demo on steam and I now know what the next 20 hours of my life is going to be.
omg i took over one of your ships/bases in cosmoteer! I was like waaaaait...... when it clicked. Rock on. Very cool stuff!
I hope more people come here. This is a great guide.
It's basic geometry but somehow I was missing this. Thank you for this video. I just started playing this game 3 days ago and I love it
These videos are key for people like me with under 20 hours of gameplay time. Ty ty ty ty ty
these are so good cosmoteer is a really good game to get deep into and optimize ships im definitly gonna sub
I anxiously await a future video on the optimization of conveyor belt hallways!
Game keeps looking better and better.
Third video i watch on your channel.
Thanks for sharing. Very helpful content!
Nice thx good to know now that the full release is on the horizon and i can start multiplayer with my buds
Thanks for the tips, I always used single block
Tysm! This has been so useful, I hope you keep this series going 😈
I’ve been cosmoteer for awhile and I found this extremely helpful thx!!!
I’ve been building multi-million credit ships for a while now, and have always used exclusively wedges and 1x1s. Thanks for the info!
Sidenote, said ships i’ve been building have been using every weapon, excluding small cannons and ion beams. Yes, that means i’ve been using railguns. Should i be using exclusively ion beams instead of exclusively railguns, or a mix of both?
edit: by exclusively, i mean that the middle of the front of my ships are exclusively railguns currently. i still have other weapons.
All weapons have strengths and weaknesses. Rails have long range and burst, but suffer when needing to get through a lot of defenses. Ions have super good sustained damage, but have a lack of range, etc. One option is rarely outright superior. Hybridization, or having both weapon systems gives you flexibility at the cost of raw power
Very helpful and entertaining. Great vid
Another great video, thank you again for making these!
Thank you so much for your Guides! :)
Thanks,explains why i often win against my friend He uses Type 1 and i type 2 armor but now i will also use type 3 Armor in my ships against him
honestly forgot about cosmoteer for a few years till i saw a video by lathrix on it returning
Great guide for these things, thanks!
Is it more effective to have an armor weave that is at an angle to enemy fire? For example taking hits at a 30-45 degree angle to the incoming fire instead of 'head-on'?
The reason why armor weaving is effective is because it forces weapons fire to hit more 2x1 armor blocks than any other design. There for needing to burn through a larger pool of HP before passing through to the next layer.
So if you can figure out a pattern that catches weapon fire by more individual 2x1 armor blocks, then yeah, it would be better.
Wasn't walt planning on removing 1x2s or are they getting saved afterall, since if they are getting saved, might use armor weaving for whatever megaproject I come up with when the game fully releases
He was considering it at one point, but has yet to do it or plan on doing it
@@SarisWinterwisp Yeah I remember him talking about possibly removing them at one point hence why I asked, wasn't sure if he had confirmed it yet or not so yeah :P
How wide should the woven armor be? Can I get a 20 width woven armor or do I need to weave in 4 width stacks?
Wow this is a huge difference!
I'd like to see a comparison between weaving horizontal and diagonal if you've not done it already, But thanks for this, very good proof of weaving benefits, now let me go change from single blocks!!! lol
Enemies: *Use armor weaving*
Railgun: "I have no such weakness."
The only problem I have with this demonstration is that it's 8 layers thick armor....
And that in fact the effect only shows when it is that thick. Most weapons still seem to penetrate 4 layers deep in roughly the same amount of time.
So I guess armor weaving only matters when you're building huge ships
The purpose of using lots of armor is to show how it stacks up over time. You are correct in that there is minimal effect, but it adds up and is easy to do, and as the thumbnail demonstrates it can still take effect with as few as two layers. A lot of competitive ships do have similar levels of high frontal armor, such that there can be massive rather than minor differences if you weave of not
Also, something that coudl be a cool update in future is if they had a armor integrity system that can disperse damage to adjacent armors that would probably make weaving stronger but might not make it that strong
2 layers is all you'd need to effectively have an increase in defense from weaving armor from weapons fire that's coming in perpendicular to your armor. That's because a 2x1 block of armor is 8000 HP no matter where you hit it, so if you weave the 2 layers, perpendicular fire has to penetrate 24K HP instead of 16K HP if you simply stack it (or worse, 12K HP if you stack 1x1 armors).
Things change when the weapon fire is angled and not perpendicular but you're more likely to face perpendicular fire than constantly angled shots imo.
very ensightful
What is the best way to set up diagonal armor?
So, basically the concept of metal scale of medieval armor? Even composite armor of modern MBT does weave.
this is awesome stuff! Thank you.
I just downloaded the demo and I'm confused. At around 6:54 you said that new players struggle against railguns. How do new players struggle with railguns if they're not available in the demo?
The classic version of this game that has existed for like seven years now has an extensive multiplayer history, of which yielded lots of results
@@SarisWinterwisp Oh shoot when I downloaded Classic I was greeted with a message suggesting I should pick up the demo instead so I figured the Demo had all the bells and whistles.
i’m coining the term “bricked armour” :)
btw, what about 33% offset? (like how brick walls are irl structures.) How would the 1/3 offset compare to 1/2 offset? I’m a bit interested but don’t have the time to test it lol. - Qawa
There's no 1x3 or 1x4 long armour, only 1x1 and 1x2 armour, so you can't do that unfortunately
Bro love your content. Can't wait to buy Cosmoteer when it released. Got any specific date when it's release? On steam it said 2022
oct 24th
wow armor is more complex than i thought
I only got one question? Does it help against nules in any way? Like spreading out the damage sort of?
A bit, but not in a super effective fashion. If you're trying to counteract nukes specifically having small armor caps connected by structure are usually more efficient
@@SarisWinterwisp i appreciate the swift reply, ill have to try that out, thank you
@@lidltraut8258 Worth noting that it's almost always superior to dodge nukes than tank them. They will crunch through armor and shields quite easily, and they're one of the most easily dodged weapons in the game
Holy shit man you came empirical evidence with control conditions. Only thing missing was you conducting a T test and controlling at ª=0.05
Is armor preferable to energy shields? Shields seem like a better option to me because they limit repairs needed, but I'm not an expert.
Burst damage and disruptors/EMP missiles go through shields relatively quickly, while armor doesn't have any direct counters. Shields also require a power source nearby to be effective which can mean putting your reactors close to the edge of your ship where they're vulnerable. Of course armor can't protect surface turret weapons, meaning you have to use ions, rails, missiles, or the upcoming deck cannons. They both have their uses.
what about weaving larger pieces of armour
Great video! Can you also do an explanation of weaving on diagonal ships?
Well there isn't that much difference, regular weaving works, just weave it facing away from your ship. (Assuming your ship points up and left) Your left side should face up and your right side should face right
@@SarisWinterwisp But If you had a diagonal ion beam ship you didn't want to turn and were taking damage head on you would be better with un-woven armor...
Weaving armor essentially tilts the armor layering 45 degrees (puts more blocks in the bullet path and narrows damage gaps) which a diagonal ship already has naturally. So weaving should actually weaken the defense from the front while strengthening the defenses from 45 degrees diagonal.
Amazing advice wow
I’m always going for regular, I want the least damage on one armor, I don’t get laser beam enemies, cause you can kill em fast enough with shields and cannons
does this apply to the classic?
Yes
wasn't walt considering removing 2x1 armor?
At one point, but it seems as though he's yet to follow through
Wow, this is an absolutely overpowered strategy that I have never been paying any mind to (I always just spammed as many 1x2 armor on my ships as possible). Will definitely use them later if I do not care for this game's meta much (However I still care for efficiency).
Also, does this arrangement work on diagonal ships or does the 45 degree angle mess with or even improve the effectiveness of the bricked armor?
It still can assist diagonal ships. Not to the same degree as linear ones, but it's still definitely better than using 1x1s
@@SarisWinterwisp Got it, thanks for replying.
Hey Saris, thx for the interesting guide. I hope there are more to come!
Ive seen that on the Monolith Executor, there is no armor weaving on the front sections. Is that intentional?
Thought i might ask since you made it :p
Yes, I thought it looked interesting and was used on a few other high end Monolith ships
@@SarisWinterwisp Ah okay. Nice to know. Do you know a way to transfer crew roles and squad orders from a blueprint into career mode? Doesnt seem to work.
@@Cubianify Unfortunately not, that's something that will be fixed sometime in development
Brick weaving build armor?
How do you have this version of the game
I was hired by Walt (the dev) to make in-game space ships for the campaign
@@SarisWinterwisp holy shit I've been dreaming about that for months
this is very useful information.
I already have an account so when the steam version releases will I be able to get it for free?
Nope lmao
:(
The reason for my asking, is due to crackling/distorting soft, whenever the drum/snare, or whatever is playing. TNice tutorials was the case off
Useful info. Thanks!
that was very helpful, thanks for the share!
Have you considered setting up a spaced armour layout against explosive AOE weapons, where you’d have the same level of protection with less weight
Spaced armor is actually pretty complex with a lot of it's interactions. You are correct in that it's resistant to AOE more so, but trying to mention it would require it's own video
@@SarisWinterwisp do you think that a more detailed armour model / simulation would benefit this game?
For example, angling the armour against projectile weapons like the cannons can cause ricochets, and also when angled against explosive type weapons the damage is reduced depending on the angle.
@@SarisWinterwisp Would love to see a spaced armor guide. I'm watching this hoping you said something about it and it's also why I'm in comments :) Also thanks!
I would argue in situations where armor blocks are on a corner, it might be best to do 1x1s, as the remaining armor from one arc of fire will protect you from another arc of fire, whilst weave wont protect it as well because it'd be spent on protecting from that single arc of fire. But I do agree if you are armoring a long surface its best to weave.
very helpfull video... thank you
HOW DOES TH-cam KNOW I GOT THIS GAME
Holy shit, it’s Reassembly but different!!!!!
Very useful information, there is a lot to learn to improve the ships.
great mechanic
so is basically like having slopped armor in a tank!
Checked with newer video. Still: Videos way too quiet. You can easily add 2 to 3 db on top of your current loudness and then you would achieve a good balance for all listeners. Those who twist knobs and volume sliders constantly will usually not have to if they encounter good mastered videos. Headphone users hear everything no matter how quiet your audio will be and the rest will be thankful to not have to constantly think about not forgetting to lower the volume again after your video(s).
Stay crunchy.
Thanks, it's hard to try and find a good balance, especially since my microphone is actually a headset that's been chewed on by a cat 😅. I'll try to fix accordingly
@@SarisWinterwisp Heya.
Depending on the tool you're using you should've audio tools built in. If not, 'DaVinci Resolve' is a great (free) professional tool. The usual thing to aim at is your loudness being around -12db. I personally feel -10db or even -8 to -7db for quieter voices much better. -12db is usually fine for musical content -10db usually for general audio content that evolves around talking.
I think you should be just fine with -10db. That level of audiolevel will cover headphone, speaker and boxes/monitor users. Sure, it's not perfect but you're not someone who needs perfect audio ^^ Oh, I forgot: Loudness is not master-output. Most integrated audio tools should have a loudness meter too.
Stay crunchy.
So helpful!!! Thx
Saris I've been watching your tournaments for a long time, and you seem like an obnoxious person. BUT, this was a really good video
you are a little quiet please try to bumb your sound up a bit thank you
Will do!
This feature would be very nice if you actually could bring weapons inside the ship like this its pretty useless why armor when i can have more missile launcher
I believe there are plans for transforming ships... moving parts and all that... maybe it might be possible to do that then? who knows..
How to stretch a 30 second explanation into 11 min video blows my mind….
you forgot to test NE/SW hits
Amigo sube más videos plz
hi Seris, welcome to thje game
demo what?
afaik you are not allowed to post videos
I personally and directly asked Walt for his permission before posting
@@SarisWinterwisp oh ok cool
3 by 3 crew quarters exposed
None of these ships except for the top one were designed for combat
this is incredibly disappointing
you are incredibly disappointing
“This is incredibly disappointing”, is what your parents said when they had you
@@savagecabbagedank3771 how very juvenile