Nice guide! I'll add that if you want an effective single-sided HE missile module you can look at many of the built-in faction ships. For EMP missiles you can use an ammo factory to boost both missile factories to 50% and have a 2-fac-4-launcher setup (like on the Arbiter in-game).
The missile knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The guidance subsystem uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the missile from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position where it wasn't, it now is. Consequently, the position where it is, is now the position that it wasn't, and it follows that the position that it was, is now the position that it isn't. In the event that the position that it is in is not the position that it wasn't, the system has acquired a variation, the variation being the difference between where the missile is, and where it wasn't. If variation is considered to be a significant factor, it too may be corrected by the GEA. However, the missile must also know where it was. The missile guidance computer scenario works as follows. Because a variation has modified some of the information the missile has obtained, it is not sure just where it is. However, it is sure where it isn't, within reason, and it knows where it was. It now subtracts where it should be from where it wasn't, or vice-versa, and by differentiating this from the algebraic sum of where it shouldn't be, and where it was, it is able to obtain the deviation and its variation, which is called error.
In a game more optimized for fleet play and multiple ship roles, the ideal solution would be to use smaller or tankier ships to provide sensor readings so that the missile boat can chuck stuff at it from miles away.
I did just this for my career mode. Made a tiny 14 crew ship, that was able to carry both a sensor array with 100% uptime, and enough thrust to outrun anything in the game. Is agile enough that you can attach it to any other ship with a formation follow command, and it will provide its sensors. Also great for scouting or baiting other ships. It can basically fly anywhere in any sector difficulty and safely get around avoiding trouble with ease.
Below 200 subcribers!? that's criminal for this good of a guide. The only note I have is that it's often not worth having factories at all for missiles and instead having a stockpile can help a lot with making the ship more safe, while a single engagement rarely causes you to run out of ammo (that said the statistics are very welcome and I wouldn't change anything in the video apart from maybe a small disclaimer). Really well made video. I'll be watching your career with great interest. P.s. Love the reference to "the missile knows where it is at all times"
What do you think about a salvo approach? Instead of building the correct amount of factories to pump out constant fire from your launchers, you build excess launchers and fire in intervals. I.e. set the launchers to fire when given a target only, launch a salvo, clear the target and wait for lauchers to fill, then fire again. Bigger salvos work very well for me. As long as I can outkite the enemy ship comfortably of course.
something to note is that if your building a fleet, it can be useful to make missle ships because they require less micromanagement and can hang back while giving support fire.
Saw this and went back to @oneye comment. I may build the 4 launcher dual factory setup and use the ammo factory squeezed in there to supply a railgun. I'm picturing the launchers in a front-rear facing arrangement with the railgun loader next to the factories, and power plants going up the side of the barrel. Front-rear facing launchers so half of the missiles are direct and half are indirect. This should gap the timing on the missiles impacts, spreading out the EMPs over time instead of all at once. When the first rear facing volley gets to the target they should start getting constantly pummeled on all sides, and theoretically get locked down. I haven't used railguns yet. I hope they're not hard to aim. I'll put the barrel power plants on the same side as the launcher group, and mirror flip it so it's got double rails right down the centerline. Then just order the ship to face the target. Dual rail octo EMP support platform. Thor's Hammer. Shock and Awe. Hold still while I cut your ship in half. 😁 I literally came up with the idea while I was writing. Comments and concerns?
The game is good but I don't watch your videos because of it. I just like listening to you. Your videos are entertaining and stimulating and your passion is beautiful
I like to put a few EMP launchers on my Railgun ship. If the enemy shield is troublesome for the Railgun, i just go from 600m to 400 m and throw a few dozen EMPs at them untill the pesky shield is gone. Then go back to 600m and nibble at the rest of the ship
So I bought me this little corvette I'd call it, heavily armoured and shielded, packed with nothing else but twenty missile launchers and storage space. Empties in seconds. Lights things on fire as well. Tried the nukes today for the first time. Holy cow, I thought my rail gun abomination was brütal!
I love Railguns and my fav Element to beat stuff up with is Lightning/Electricity. I'm pondering someday Maining Railgun(s) + EMP Missiles... I also hear that EMP Missiles and Railguns share Max Ranges (As long as the Railgun(s) are equipped with at least 8 Accelerators which i'd sure as hell wanna do!) so i'm a very lucky bugger that this game has a Weapon Setup i'll be compatible with. ^_^ If I could ever figure out how to not die at the beginning of a Career Game, I need to learn how to use the Control Groups function(s), then i'm pondering the strategy of having my EMP Missile Launchers where they would be able to fire first and hopefully hit the Enemy Shields then time Railgun Slugs to hit into the disabled area before they can become back Online... or somethin like that. :D
I actually have a ship setup exactly like this. It's much easier than you might think. Simply change missile weapons to fire at will, then change railgun to only fire when given a specific target on the enemy ship. This will allow you to engage the enemy, missiles auto fire when enemy is close, then just right click to target a specific piece of the enemy ship (reactors, cockpit, etc) and watch it go boom! Another solution which is a little more elegant is to use control groups as you mentioned. Simply hold control on your keyboard and press a number (1-9) and then whatever you had selected will be on that number. Make sure both weapons (missiles and railguns) only ever fire at specified targets, select missiles, fire, wait, select railgun, fire, watch it go boom! 😊
5:05 Oh god damnit! Its stuck in my head. AHHHHHH!!! "The missile knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The guidance subsystem uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the missile from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position where it wasn't, it now is. Consequently, the position where it is, is now the position that it wasn't, and it follows that the position that it was, is now the position that it isn't. In the event that the position that it is in is not the position that it wasn't, the system has acquired a variation, the variation being the difference between where the missile is, and where it wasn't. If variation is considered to be a significant factor, it too may be corrected by the GEA. However, the missile must also know where it was. The missile guidance computer scenario works as follows. Because a variation has modified some of the information the missile has obtained, it is not sure just where it is. However, it is sure where it isn't, within reason, and it knows where it was. It now subtracts where it should be from where it wasn't, or vice-versa, and by differentiating this from the algebraic sum of where it shouldn't be, and where it was, it is able to obtain the deviation and its variation, which is called error."
Really great guide! I'll have to differ on some things, though: Nukes are by no means a support weapon and if you want to have them, they ought to be your main source of damage, and rightfully so. Factories are really darn useless for Mines and Nukes as they are both large, incredibly consuming and expensive, and storage is absolutely better for both. These factories should only be used off-battle when you actually want to produce more juicy damage dealers, and EMP ones to an extent as well. Missiles are by no means underappreciated weapons, almost ship, built-in or competitive alike, use missiles of all the types (Except mines that I'll get to in a bit), and almost every single ship can get a power boost just by having a missile or two slapped on its sides, to the point that they are probably the most overused weapons in the game, and for all the right reasons, as they are darn amazing. Also a few more things about the missile types specifically: I know two really cool modules for HE missiles, one being two missile factories parallel to each other, mirrored, that is infinitely stackable, reliable and provides offensive capability for a line of missiles on each side of your ship (It is also very missile-dense, with a launcher every three tiles of thickness, or a total of 4 missies every 10 tiles, which is very good indeed. With this system *4:20**,* not only does it flicker, it also provides only 2 missiles every 7 tiles, or 4 missiles every 14 tiles). There's also another one with 5 missiles and 2 parallel HE factories side by side, *but,* with an ammunition factory supporting both factories, raising both's efficiency up to 50% with minimal cost. With EMPs, you can always have a 3x3 storage near them for 10 EMP missile capacity, more than enough for a single, or maybe even more battles. That's one thing with missiles, the way they can pair up with storages: HE Storages aren't advised as factories are simply better, but the amount of storage bay slots should always be a multiple of 2 for no leftover pieces once the storage runs dry. For EMPs, the number is the aforementioned multiple of 9 (So, the 3x3 storage bay), and for the Nukes, the number is a multiple of 6 (So, either the 2x3 storage bay or the 4x3 storage bay)... And lastly, we've got mines. *_Oh boy do I not feel like talking about mines....._* The bottom line is, they are absolutely atrocious, and that's the end of it. I'd say they are slightly better than flaks if used by an expert, but that is a very low bar to clear. They were easily the weakest weapon in the game and they have gotten none but nerfed in the new game (Mine factory now sucks balls, storing mines hasn't been increased in the slightest while everything else's storage capacity has been buffed to the ceiling, plus mines have been split into 4 pieces from a singular piece that could've been carried around by a single person, and mines' lifetime has been decreased from literal eternity to only one minute) with only a single pretty minor change to counteract their many unintended but crippling nerfs, that being now they arm much quicker than they used to, making them a threat even up close. With all that said mines still suck big pretty nuts and should not be seriously used by anybody (Unless they're making an aesthetic ship that mines suit to, like me) under any circumstances unless a very highly competitive build utilizing them rolls around (There is one with a rail-kiter, but it's not the best thing in the world)... Yeah, that's about it, thanks for sitting through my useless pep talk :>.
"useless pep talk" nah there are a lot of true things in there. Especially since a) i learn a lot through that and b) people watching this video will see this additional info aswell yesterday i stumbled across a 7 month old redditpost with a poll that asked which weapontype is the most popular and missiles came in second place after railguns which definitly suprised me. my point of reference is mainly my group and people i talk online to and they supported my point, but the broader spectrum is definitly different. my guess is that missiles might seem a bit strange and appear weak in small numbers, therefore many newcommers (which my group mainly consists of) might be scared off. thats just me guessing though, your point is still correct the "support" part is mainly meant as "they are a great asset to any ship" as they can fill gaps in other weapons shortcomings while being (mostly) independent of placement and therefore dont take away any needed space for lasers or cannons on the front-end. wether you choose factorys or storages will probably depend on the way you play. If you play with one giant ship that is factory, freighter and flagship in one (plus singleplayer) you will probably prefer the factory setup as you will have the factory on your ship anyway and if you produce the part directly without an additional storage, you will safe space as the minerals have a higher "density per stack" if you get what im meaning. EMP for example. 1 Part costs 0,05 copper and 0,05 iron. so 1 stack of copper (5 pieces) and 1 stack of iron (5 pieces) generate 100 emp parts, which stack up to 10 stacks (10 parts each). 2 mineral piles vs 10 EMP piles. Simply saves you room. That is definitly a cool suggestion for HE Modules that i will definitly try myself. Thanks And mines...man i just cant talk bad about them because i had so much fun testing them and when they hit its incredibly satisfying. But i fully agree. They need some kind of buff or adjustment as they are currently heavily outshined by basicly everything else.
@@captaincaffeine True, true indeed. Thanks for reading through the entire dang thing because after re-looking at my abomination of a textwall I feel like a waste of time XD Yeah, I mostly talk to Cosmoteer enjoyers and players on Discord, as that's where the majority of the community (We're talking like, 25000 people at least) and most of them love and praise missiles, myself included, as some of the best weapons in the game. They're basically community's MVP together with railguns and ions. And yes, having individual rockets is still a great primary weapon you can start with and can work as they easily one-shot most level 1-3 ships (Which might even be their biggest problem as they leave you nothing to salvage XD) Yes, I agree about the support part. They are an amazing asset you can add onto the sides or even the rear of your ship without taking away necessary space for frontal modules like primary weapons. And whilst yes, most missiles are secondary weapons, nukes are the exception of that rule and can simply work on their own without any help, maybe aside from EMPs. Factories or storages are indeed dependent, but making arrays and modules for nukes and mines that use their respective factories is in most cases never worth it. Especially the aforementioned mine factory and how useless it is as an in-combat module. One mine needs 8 bullets to be assembled and the factory consumes them incredibly rapidly, so not only do you need separate bullet factories with no other uses near them, but they also waste an unimaginable amount of crew... .....And then there's mines. Yes, I too absolutely love(d) them, especially back in Cosmoteer Classic, they were one of the most niche yet coolest *(And actually competitively great)* weapons in the game, and they still are, but the indirect nerfs that haven't affected the launchers in the slightest (Minus the whole ''mines now decay in only a minute'' thing that was directly suggested to Walt, the developer of the game, by a veteran competitive player), but have severely crippled their ways of supplying. I have made a whole Discord thread about why they've become obsolete, I desperately want to get these beautiful pieces of weaponry on the throne they oh so much deserved..... _That's all, thanks for sitting through my useless pep-talk 2 the sequel-_
I tried building a ww2 style fleet and had my destroyer carry a nuke along with PD and standard cannons on each side, with disruptors on the rear and front. The idea was to provide support with disruptors and PD while being able to dispatch of smaller threats. The nuke was meant to be a torpedo, and i mostly used it while the bigger ships brawled, or the destroyer needed to fend for itself, so it really was a good support weapon.
Your numbers on the Mines are off I've made sustained fire Mine launcher before with ONE Mine Factory feed TWO Launchers. Mine Factory output is 0.5 while the Mine Launchers only use 0.33 mines per second which is more than enough to feed a single launcher. The reason 1 Factory can support 2 Launchers though is Adjacently bonus. The Mine factory requires 4 ammo per second and Ammo Factories only produce 2 per second so you need 2 of them. Having them both on the side where the ammo is used in the Mine Factory not only shortens the distance needed to travel but also gives a total of 50% boost to the Mine Factory so it can produce 0.75 Mines Per second which is more than enough to feed 2 Mine Launchers non-stop. Just put some Iron and Sulfur near by and you can flood the area with mines in short order. For comparison Missiles fire at 0.5 per second so each launcher will put out about 30 a minute. While mines fire at 0.33 and will put out 20 in a minute. That's a lot of mines they are gonna potentially be running face first into since standard setup on this is 2 launchers for a total of 40 minutes in 1 minute. If you got a bigger ship with 2 of these setups on each side that's potentially 80 mines in 1 minute. The mines form a large field so even smaller ships are not slipping through that. As for mines not being aggressive play style. Yeah that's cause they are more area denial weapons. There is no terrain in space but with mines you effectively make the area hazardous terrain that the enemy has to cross if they want to close the distance. In most fights once you get close enough the enemy will start heading your way which is you que to get mine dropping. The mine field will already be started by the time they get within missile range as most enemy ships seem to blindly charge you. The benefit of mines for support are as follows. First off when you start laying down a decent field on the enemies initial approach it lets you create a small field of mines that will potential all hit at once. PD doesn't destroy them it only sets them off so if the enemy ship is close they will still get hit by the shards but it can distract their PD from shooting your missiles. The enemy running through a mine field can help overwhelm their defenses so your other weapons get through. Lastly applies more to players than NPCs as players might be more reluctant to charge through the mine field and instead try to go around. EDIT: OH YEAH! Mines go through shields. :) Nothing is funnier than dropping mines down the Ion Beam Shaft and have them go off inside. But when the enemy closes the distance there is a chance the mines won't arm until after they are within the enemy shields and when they go off all those shards hit at point blank range.
Ions will get their own segment during the laser video. both how to build it (if you need a quick tipp now: always combine 2 lasers. dont throw 3 or 4 into the same prism. also only combine lasers of equal strength) and how effective they are at different ranges and in comparison to other laser weapons.
How does the damage stacking work? Assuming med range is it first beam 100% second beam 75% so 1250 + 937 then so on when combining higher levels in the binary tree? Thank you for your response. I look forward to seeing the ions episode!
@@toastypops3818 1. Example: you have 2 Ionbeams at 100% you fuse them together in a prism. the formula would be "strength of weaker beam" + ("strength of stronger beam" * (0,75^(number of beam - 1) = 100% + 100% * (0,75^(2-1)) so yes you have 100% + 75% 2. example you have 4 ionbeams at 100% and all go into 1 prism 100% + 100% * (0,75^(2-1)) + 100% * (0,75^(3-1)) + 100% * (0,75^(4-1)) 100% + 75% + 56% + 42%= 273% 3. example you have 4 ionbeams. 2 go into one. the other 2 go into one. the 2 combined prisms go into one again. first stage as example 1 for both prism. the 4 ionbeams now got combined into 2 beams of 175% strength each. second stage would now be: 175% + 175% * (0,75^(2-1)) = 306,25% strength. about 30% stronger than the second example. cosmoteer.wiki.gg/wiki/Ion_Beam_Prism this link opens the wiki for the Ion Beam Prism. There is also the formula and also a small infochart that has the same results as i do. As another reminder: always fuse beams of equal strength. otherwise the stronger beam will get the 0,75^n-1 debuff. i hope this helps you till the video is done.
@@captaincaffeine Thank you so much! This is the part that was missing for me is how the power got to 306.25. I look forward to watching the awesome video you make. Cheers!
The gunners have everything at 0 exept for operating all guns. (exept mining laser. that is also operating 0) Also no firefighting. if one member is missing, then the entire gun wont function. The loaders have extinguish fire on 10, every supply ammo and supply battery on weaponsystems on 9. mind that point defense is also 0 because i have my own crew for that. Also you might want to tell your crew to stay to their respective factorys, reactors and weapons. would be bad if crewmembers would start to walk across the ship to another weapon that usually has its own loaders. you do that by pressing "T" in the vrew management tab. you then leftclick on the loaders barracks and rightclick everything that they should be allowed to use. dont forget the fireextinguisher though. otherwise they wont do any firefighting because you didnt allow any extinguishers to be used. suppliers: firefighting 10 every weaponfactory both supply battery and supply reccources on 9. rest 0 that might be a bit overkill but i like the security that my weapons (and shields because i handle them the same way) are always operational. even if half of my crew is outside collecting reccources. if i get jumped on, i can still return fire and stay operational...for a little while at least. i think thats everything that i did.
Yes, its Always a question of Budget, Space and ammo density for prolonged Fights. If you expect your fight to be over before your ammo Runs Out and you plan in restocking after every Fight, then you dont need any factorys.
in comparison to regular ammo, missilefactorys are more of a luxury rather than a necessity. You still have a higher density of missileparts if you have the minerals on board instead of finished parts, but it does inflate the cost of the vessel. I tackle most problems with the singleplayer career in mind and a self sufficent ship with a high duration of use is always something that i see as desireable. You can of course substitute that with a dedicated support ship that has the factorys on board, but thats up to you if you want to rearm every now and then. Nothing wrong with that. My best guess is that the build in ships are heavily combat focused. Meaning they dont need selfsufficency as they wont start to mine minerals or go on prolonged war-campaigns against other factions. Also: while ships indeed rarely have missilefactorys on board, stations actually have factorys. The Imperial Arms depots come to mind. Boils down to personal preference. Higher ammodensity in exchange for cost, weight and personal that needs to fabricate ammo during combat.
@@captaincaffeine I tend to take advantage of the 0 energy usage of missile launchers and tuck them away in ship sections away from the reactor. Gives a bit more freedom when designing the ship and thus efficiency. For me, that only leaves explosive potential to worry about. Do you know, if sulfur explodes more or less violently than ammo?
from my testing, a 4x4 storage with 16 full stacks of sulfur (5) explodes with the same radius, damage and firespreadingpotential as 16 full stacks of ammo (20).
i actually love mines and desperately want to make ships that use them as a primary damage source. their damage is quite extreme, in fact, but its difficult to get them positioned correctly to utilize said damage. bit sad honestly
No. They are almost 2 years old. They arent exactly wrong but a few Numbers have been changed and ballistic+engine Guide are incomplete due to new additions. New ballistic Guide ist currently being worked on.
@@captaincaffeine Great to hear that you haven't quit the game nor youtube and are still working on a new guide. Are you also gonna touch on the new number changes for the ballistic weapons? Do you, for example, still need 3 ammo factories for 1 deck cannon and still the same amount of crew? If not, how would you approach making a deck cannon setup? What should you not do in a deck cannon design, considering the crew stunning?
The new Guide isnt Just the new addition of the chaingun. Its a complete overhaul of the original Guide With all ballistic weapons and expanded upon by talking about Penetration damage calculation for example. But since this will Still Take a good amount of time: The deckcannon remains unchanged as the ammo per second is still 8. So 2 Factories would only supply for 40 Seconds Till you get Problems. I also saw people recommend ammo storage for PvP. A 4x4 storage would provide you With 320 shells plus 100 already in the Cannon so you can fire for 53 Seconds but then you are completly dry. At the end of the day its preference but i as a pure Singleplayer enjoyer would Always Go for the 3 factory Setup as you dont need to worry much about ammo and also dont run dry in a 3vs1 for example.
@@captaincaffeine Thx for the helpful response. In your guide, can you also talk about how much power you would need for a railgun strips if you use the walkways?
little excerpt from the script: "I hope you like walkways because your logistics will definitly need it. Our target wont be to get as much energy to the target like for shields. We dont need high quantities as a railgun accelerator and launcher only use .5 energy per shot or .125 per second. Quantity is not the problem. Traveltime will be. ... Option 2 is to place 2 energy sources at the ends of the railgun. ... The second option is still superiour however." To put that into perspective of a 8 Acc Railgun, that would be 1,125 energy per second...thats barely 2/3 of a small reactor. i would advise you to look into the ship library for the arquebus and longspear (Monolith Combat) for some inspiration. Putting energysources on both ends of your railgun (no matter if its a capacitor or reactor) which have more tasks than just supplying your railgun is the way to go.
I was hoping to see mines being a really strong choice that people didnt take seriously but disapponted to sed they are pretty much just worse than HE period. They should be way more devastating in terms of DPS, but currently theres no reason to use them over HE or EMP other than saving space by not using a factory.
One benefit of mines that I've tested and used, is that they effectively bypass heavy point defences by nature of their fragments overwhelming and getting past it. A ship with a wall of point defence will shoot down the mines as they approach, but still get hit by the fragments fired out and start loosing PD, which then enables the more fragile missiles to get past the already distracted PD. 100% relies on the enemy chasing you though. Only tried it on AI so far.
Nice guide!
I'll add that if you want an effective single-sided HE missile module you can look at many of the built-in faction ships. For EMP missiles you can use an ammo factory to boost both missile factories to 50% and have a 2-fac-4-launcher setup (like on the Arbiter in-game).
The missile knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The guidance subsystem uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the missile from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position where it wasn't, it now is. Consequently, the position where it is, is now the position that it wasn't, and it follows that the position that it was, is now the position that it isn't.
In the event that the position that it is in is not the position that it wasn't, the system has acquired a variation, the variation being the difference between where the missile is, and where it wasn't. If variation is considered to be a significant factor, it too may be corrected by the GEA. However, the missile must also know where it was.
The missile guidance computer scenario works as follows. Because a variation has modified some of the information the missile has obtained, it is not sure just where it is. However, it is sure where it isn't, within reason, and it knows where it was. It now subtracts where it should be from where it wasn't, or vice-versa, and by differentiating this from the algebraic sum of where it shouldn't be, and where it was, it is able to obtain the deviation and its variation, which is called error.
If Dr. Seuss wrote a book about guided missiles...
@@DeviousityAtGmail LMAO
42 likes is good
In a game more optimized for fleet play and multiple ship roles, the ideal solution would be to use smaller or tankier ships to provide sensor readings so that the missile boat can chuck stuff at it from miles away.
I did just this for my career mode. Made a tiny 14 crew ship, that was able to carry both a sensor array with 100% uptime, and enough thrust to outrun anything in the game. Is agile enough that you can attach it to any other ship with a formation follow command, and it will provide its sensors. Also great for scouting or baiting other ships. It can basically fly anywhere in any sector difficulty and safely get around avoiding trouble with ease.
Below 200 subcribers!? that's criminal for this good of a guide.
The only note I have is that it's often not worth having factories at all for missiles and instead having a stockpile can help a lot with making the ship more safe, while a single engagement rarely causes you to run out of ammo (that said the statistics are very welcome and I wouldn't change anything in the video apart from maybe a small disclaimer).
Really well made video. I'll be watching your career with great interest.
P.s.
Love the reference to "the missile knows where it is at all times"
What do you think about a salvo approach? Instead of building the correct amount of factories to pump out constant fire from your launchers, you build excess launchers and fire in intervals. I.e. set the launchers to fire when given a target only, launch a salvo, clear the target and wait for lauchers to fill, then fire again. Bigger salvos work very well for me. As long as I can outkite the enemy ship comfortably of course.
thanks for the idea!
Super appreciate this series! Definitely would love it the breakdown of the crew included even as an addendum in the description
rough description of my crew roles added to ballistic and missile description
@@captaincaffeine awesome! Appreciate this a ton!
Just finished watching this series - great guides and the example factory setups are super helpful for ballistics and missiles. Thanks!
thanks these guides, i didn't know that the largest power gens are not necessarily the best and the 6 loaders per shield is going to be big.
honestly i like nukes
not because they are powerful
but i like they way they launch
they are a 2 stage launch
they launch
aim
and go
i love that
I know this is necroposting, but quoting "The missile knows where it is" instantly got you a whole bucket full of brownie points.
something to note is that if your building a fleet, it can be useful to make missle ships because they require less micromanagement and can hang back while giving support fire.
+1 like for the comment about Disney destroying I.P's XD
Love your tutorials and the way you explain things! Keep up the good work :3
EMP + rail is a really solid combo.
Saw this and went back to @oneye comment. I may build the 4 launcher dual factory setup and use the ammo factory squeezed in there to supply a railgun. I'm picturing the launchers in a front-rear facing arrangement with the railgun loader next to the factories, and power plants going up the side of the barrel. Front-rear facing launchers so half of the missiles are direct and half are indirect. This should gap the timing on the missiles impacts, spreading out the EMPs over time instead of all at once. When the first rear facing volley gets to the target they should start getting constantly pummeled on all sides, and theoretically get locked down. I haven't used railguns yet. I hope they're not hard to aim. I'll put the barrel power plants on the same side as the launcher group, and mirror flip it so it's got double rails right down the centerline. Then just order the ship to face the target. Dual rail octo EMP support platform. Thor's Hammer. Shock and Awe. Hold still while I cut your ship in half. 😁
I literally came up with the idea while I was writing. Comments and concerns?
The game is good but I don't watch your videos because of it. I just like listening to you. Your videos are entertaining and stimulating and your passion is beautiful
The missile knows where it is at all times.
You ARE AWESOME! THANK YOU! Finally, I understand how to make proper missile cruiser.
I like to put a few EMP launchers on my Railgun ship. If the enemy shield is troublesome for the Railgun, i just go from 600m to 400 m and throw a few dozen EMPs at them untill the pesky shield is gone. Then go back to 600m and nibble at the rest of the ship
So I bought me this little corvette I'd call it, heavily armoured and shielded, packed with nothing else but twenty missile launchers and storage space. Empties in seconds. Lights things on fire as well.
Tried the nukes today for the first time. Holy cow, I thought my rail gun abomination was brütal!
I don't think something with 20 missile launchers can be considered a corvette. That's pretty big no matter how compact it might be. ^ ^;
I love Railguns and my fav Element to beat stuff up with is Lightning/Electricity. I'm pondering someday Maining Railgun(s) + EMP Missiles... I also hear that EMP Missiles and Railguns share Max Ranges (As long as the Railgun(s) are equipped with at least 8 Accelerators which i'd sure as hell wanna do!) so i'm a very lucky bugger that this game has a Weapon Setup i'll be compatible with. ^_^
If I could ever figure out how to not die at the beginning of a Career Game, I need to learn how to use the Control Groups function(s), then i'm pondering the strategy of having my EMP Missile Launchers where they would be able to fire first and hopefully hit the Enemy Shields then time Railgun Slugs to hit into the disabled area before they can become back Online... or somethin like that. :D
I actually have a ship setup exactly like this. It's much easier than you might think. Simply change missile weapons to fire at will, then change railgun to only fire when given a specific target on the enemy ship. This will allow you to engage the enemy, missiles auto fire when enemy is close, then just right click to target a specific piece of the enemy ship (reactors, cockpit, etc) and watch it go boom!
Another solution which is a little more elegant is to use control groups as you mentioned. Simply hold control on your keyboard and press a number (1-9) and then whatever you had selected will be on that number. Make sure both weapons (missiles and railguns) only ever fire at specified targets, select missiles, fire, wait, select railgun, fire, watch it go boom! 😊
I usually used Mines along with AA turret as a deterrence for ships or barrage of missiles coming straight to my Mothership
5:05 Oh god damnit! Its stuck in my head. AHHHHHH!!!
"The missile knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The guidance subsystem uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the missile from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position where it wasn't, it now is. Consequently, the position where it is, is now the position that it wasn't, and it follows that the position that it was, is now the position that it isn't.
In the event that the position that it is in is not the position that it wasn't, the system has acquired a variation, the variation being the difference between where the missile is, and where it wasn't. If variation is considered to be a significant factor, it too may be corrected by the GEA. However, the missile must also know where it was.
The missile guidance computer scenario works as follows. Because a variation has modified some of the information the missile has obtained, it is not sure just where it is. However, it is sure where it isn't, within reason, and it knows where it was. It now subtracts where it should be from where it wasn't, or vice-versa, and by differentiating this from the algebraic sum of where it shouldn't be, and where it was, it is able to obtain the deviation and its variation, which is called error."
Really great guide! I'll have to differ on some things, though:
Nukes are by no means a support weapon and if you want to have them, they ought to be your main source of damage, and rightfully so.
Factories are really darn useless for Mines and Nukes as they are both large, incredibly consuming and expensive, and storage is absolutely better for both. These factories should only be used off-battle when you actually want to produce more juicy damage dealers, and EMP ones to an extent as well.
Missiles are by no means underappreciated weapons, almost ship, built-in or competitive alike, use missiles of all the types (Except mines that I'll get to in a bit), and almost every single ship can get a power boost just by having a missile or two slapped on its sides, to the point that they are probably the most overused weapons in the game, and for all the right reasons, as they are darn amazing.
Also a few more things about the missile types specifically:
I know two really cool modules for HE missiles, one being two missile factories parallel to each other, mirrored, that is infinitely stackable, reliable and provides offensive capability for a line of missiles on each side of your ship (It is also very missile-dense, with a launcher every three tiles of thickness, or a total of 4 missies every 10 tiles, which is very good indeed. With this system *4:20**,* not only does it flicker, it also provides only 2 missiles every 7 tiles, or 4 missiles every 14 tiles). There's also another one with 5 missiles and 2 parallel HE factories side by side, *but,* with an ammunition factory supporting both factories, raising both's efficiency up to 50% with minimal cost.
With EMPs, you can always have a 3x3 storage near them for 10 EMP missile capacity, more than enough for a single, or maybe even more battles. That's one thing with missiles, the way they can pair up with storages: HE Storages aren't advised as factories are simply better, but the amount of storage bay slots should always be a multiple of 2 for no leftover pieces once the storage runs dry. For EMPs, the number is the aforementioned multiple of 9 (So, the 3x3 storage bay), and for the Nukes, the number is a multiple of 6 (So, either the 2x3 storage bay or the 4x3 storage bay)...
And lastly, we've got mines. *_Oh boy do I not feel like talking about mines....._* The bottom line is, they are absolutely atrocious, and that's the end of it. I'd say they are slightly better than flaks if used by an expert, but that is a very low bar to clear. They were easily the weakest weapon in the game and they have gotten none but nerfed in the new game (Mine factory now sucks balls, storing mines hasn't been increased in the slightest while everything else's storage capacity has been buffed to the ceiling, plus mines have been split into 4 pieces from a singular piece that could've been carried around by a single person, and mines' lifetime has been decreased from literal eternity to only one minute) with only a single pretty minor change to counteract their many unintended but crippling nerfs, that being now they arm much quicker than they used to, making them a threat even up close. With all that said mines still suck big pretty nuts and should not be seriously used by anybody (Unless they're making an aesthetic ship that mines suit to, like me) under any circumstances unless a very highly competitive build utilizing them rolls around (There is one with a rail-kiter, but it's not the best thing in the world)... Yeah, that's about it, thanks for sitting through my useless pep talk :>.
"useless pep talk" nah there are a lot of true things in there. Especially since a) i learn a lot through that and b) people watching this video will see this additional info aswell
yesterday i stumbled across a 7 month old redditpost with a poll that asked which weapontype is the most popular and missiles came in second place after railguns which definitly suprised me. my point of reference is mainly my group and people i talk online to and they supported my point, but the broader spectrum is definitly different. my guess is that missiles might seem a bit strange and appear weak in small numbers, therefore many newcommers (which my group mainly consists of) might be scared off. thats just me guessing though, your point is still correct
the "support" part is mainly meant as "they are a great asset to any ship" as they can fill gaps in other weapons shortcomings while being (mostly) independent of placement and therefore dont take away any needed space for lasers or cannons on the front-end.
wether you choose factorys or storages will probably depend on the way you play. If you play with one giant ship that is factory, freighter and flagship in one (plus singleplayer) you will probably prefer the factory setup as you will have the factory on your ship anyway and if you produce the part directly without an additional storage, you will safe space as the minerals have a higher "density per stack" if you get what im meaning.
EMP for example. 1 Part costs 0,05 copper and 0,05 iron. so 1 stack of copper (5 pieces) and 1 stack of iron (5 pieces) generate 100 emp parts, which stack up to 10 stacks (10 parts each). 2 mineral piles vs 10 EMP piles. Simply saves you room.
That is definitly a cool suggestion for HE Modules that i will definitly try myself. Thanks
And mines...man i just cant talk bad about them because i had so much fun testing them and when they hit its incredibly satisfying. But i fully agree. They need some kind of buff or adjustment as they are currently heavily outshined by basicly everything else.
@@captaincaffeine True, true indeed. Thanks for reading through the entire dang thing because after re-looking at my abomination of a textwall I feel like a waste of time XD
Yeah, I mostly talk to Cosmoteer enjoyers and players on Discord, as that's where the majority of the community (We're talking like, 25000 people at least) and most of them love and praise missiles, myself included, as some of the best weapons in the game. They're basically community's MVP together with railguns and ions. And yes, having individual rockets is still a great primary weapon you can start with and can work as they easily one-shot most level 1-3 ships (Which might even be their biggest problem as they leave you nothing to salvage XD)
Yes, I agree about the support part. They are an amazing asset you can add onto the sides or even the rear of your ship without taking away necessary space for frontal modules like primary weapons. And whilst yes, most missiles are secondary weapons, nukes are the exception of that rule and can simply work on their own without any help, maybe aside from EMPs.
Factories or storages are indeed dependent, but making arrays and modules for nukes and mines that use their respective factories is in most cases never worth it. Especially the aforementioned mine factory and how useless it is as an in-combat module. One mine needs 8 bullets to be assembled and the factory consumes them incredibly rapidly, so not only do you need separate bullet factories with no other uses near them, but they also waste an unimaginable amount of crew...
.....And then there's mines. Yes, I too absolutely love(d) them, especially back in Cosmoteer Classic, they were one of the most niche yet coolest *(And actually competitively great)* weapons in the game, and they still are, but the indirect nerfs that haven't affected the launchers in the slightest (Minus the whole ''mines now decay in only a minute'' thing that was directly suggested to Walt, the developer of the game, by a veteran competitive player), but have severely crippled their ways of supplying. I have made a whole Discord thread about why they've become obsolete, I desperately want to get these beautiful pieces of weaponry on the throne they oh so much deserved.....
_That's all, thanks for sitting through my useless pep-talk 2 the sequel-_
I tried building a ww2 style fleet and had my destroyer carry a nuke along with PD and standard cannons on each side, with disruptors on the rear and front. The idea was to provide support with disruptors and PD while being able to dispatch of smaller threats. The nuke was meant to be a torpedo, and i mostly used it while the bigger ships brawled, or the destroyer needed to fend for itself, so it really was a good support weapon.
Love the video man, thank you so much!
Your numbers on the Mines are off I've made sustained fire Mine launcher before with ONE Mine Factory feed TWO Launchers.
Mine Factory output is 0.5 while the Mine Launchers only use 0.33 mines per second which is more than enough to feed a single launcher.
The reason 1 Factory can support 2 Launchers though is Adjacently bonus. The Mine factory requires 4 ammo per second and Ammo Factories only produce 2 per second so you need 2 of them. Having them both on the side where the ammo is used in the Mine Factory not only shortens the distance needed to travel but also gives a total of 50% boost to the Mine Factory so it can produce 0.75 Mines Per second which is more than enough to feed 2 Mine Launchers non-stop. Just put some Iron and Sulfur near by and you can flood the area with mines in short order.
For comparison Missiles fire at 0.5 per second so each launcher will put out about 30 a minute. While mines fire at 0.33 and will put out 20 in a minute. That's a lot of mines they are gonna potentially be running face first into since standard setup on this is 2 launchers for a total of 40 minutes in 1 minute. If you got a bigger ship with 2 of these setups on each side that's potentially 80 mines in 1 minute. The mines form a large field so even smaller ships are not slipping through that.
As for mines not being aggressive play style. Yeah that's cause they are more area denial weapons. There is no terrain in space but with mines you effectively make the area hazardous terrain that the enemy has to cross if they want to close the distance. In most fights once you get close enough the enemy will start heading your way which is you que to get mine dropping. The mine field will already be started by the time they get within missile range as most enemy ships seem to blindly charge you.
The benefit of mines for support are as follows. First off when you start laying down a decent field on the enemies initial approach it lets you create a small field of mines that will potential all hit at once. PD doesn't destroy them it only sets them off so if the enemy ship is close they will still get hit by the shards but it can distract their PD from shooting your missiles. The enemy running through a mine field can help overwhelm their defenses so your other weapons get through. Lastly applies more to players than NPCs as players might be more reluctant to charge through the mine field and instead try to go around.
EDIT: OH YEAH! Mines go through shields. :)
Nothing is funnier than dropping mines down the Ion Beam Shaft and have them go off inside. But when the enemy closes the distance there is a chance the mines won't arm until after they are within the enemy shields and when they go off all those shards hit at point blank range.
Cool video, i learned a lot.
what i hate about emps is i usually use a small ship and it disabled everything on the ship even the cockpit
Would love to see a breakdown video on Ions and their damage falloff + effectiveness.
Ions will get their own segment during the laser video. both how to build it (if you need a quick tipp now: always combine 2 lasers. dont throw 3 or 4 into the same prism. also only combine lasers of equal strength) and how effective they are at different ranges and in comparison to other laser weapons.
How does the damage stacking work? Assuming med range is it first beam 100% second beam 75% so 1250 + 937 then so on when combining higher levels in the binary tree? Thank you for your response. I look forward to seeing the ions episode!
@@toastypops3818 1. Example:
you have 2 Ionbeams at 100%
you fuse them together in a prism.
the formula would be "strength of weaker beam" + ("strength of stronger beam" * (0,75^(number of beam - 1) = 100% + 100% * (0,75^(2-1))
so yes you have 100% + 75%
2. example
you have 4 ionbeams at 100% and all go into 1 prism
100% + 100% * (0,75^(2-1)) + 100% * (0,75^(3-1)) + 100% * (0,75^(4-1))
100% + 75% + 56% + 42%= 273%
3. example
you have 4 ionbeams. 2 go into one. the other 2 go into one. the 2 combined prisms go into one again.
first stage as example 1 for both prism. the 4 ionbeams now got combined into 2 beams of 175% strength each.
second stage would now be:
175% + 175% * (0,75^(2-1)) = 306,25% strength.
about 30% stronger than the second example.
cosmoteer.wiki.gg/wiki/Ion_Beam_Prism
this link opens the wiki for the Ion Beam Prism. There is also the formula and also a small infochart that has the same results as i do.
As another reminder: always fuse beams of equal strength. otherwise the stronger beam will get the 0,75^n-1 debuff.
i hope this helps you till the video is done.
@@captaincaffeine Thank you so much! This is the part that was missing for me is how the power got to 306.25. I look forward to watching the awesome video you make. Cheers!
" The missile knows where it is." - Captain Caffeine 2020
it is sad that cosmoteer is so unknown
i mean it became my favorite game instantly
Keep up the good work!
Myself I use mines for pest control (ie 1 mission 5/more enemy)
Would you be able to post the stats of the crew anywhere? Sorry im pretty new at this and not sure what stats to give them lol
The gunners have everything at 0 exept for operating all guns. (exept mining laser. that is also operating 0)
Also no firefighting. if one member is missing, then the entire gun wont function.
The loaders have extinguish fire on 10, every supply ammo and supply battery on weaponsystems on 9. mind that point defense is also 0 because i have my own crew for that. Also you might want to tell your crew to stay to their respective factorys, reactors and weapons. would be bad if crewmembers would start to walk across the ship to another weapon that usually has its own loaders. you do that by pressing "T" in the vrew management tab. you then leftclick on the loaders barracks and rightclick everything that they should be allowed to use. dont forget the fireextinguisher though. otherwise they wont do any firefighting because you didnt allow any extinguishers to be used.
suppliers: firefighting 10
every weaponfactory both supply battery and supply reccources on 9. rest 0
that might be a bit overkill but i like the security that my weapons (and shields because i handle them the same way) are always operational. even if half of my crew is outside collecting reccources. if i get jumped on, i can still return fire and stay operational...for a little while at least.
i think thats everything that i did.
@@captaincaffeine thank you so much 💖
Isn't it better to stockpile your rocket ammo sometimes?
Yes, its Always a question of Budget, Space and ammo density for prolonged Fights. If you expect your fight to be over before your ammo Runs Out and you plan in restocking after every Fight, then you dont need any factorys.
@@captaincaffeine Thanks for repsonse!
I'm not sure, if missile launchers really need a factory. Isn't there a reason why none of the built-in ships only use storage?
in comparison to regular ammo, missilefactorys are more of a luxury rather than a necessity. You still have a higher density of missileparts if you have the minerals on board instead of finished parts, but it does inflate the cost of the vessel. I tackle most problems with the singleplayer career in mind and a self sufficent ship with a high duration of use is always something that i see as desireable. You can of course substitute that with a dedicated support ship that has the factorys on board, but thats up to you if you want to rearm every now and then. Nothing wrong with that.
My best guess is that the build in ships are heavily combat focused. Meaning they dont need selfsufficency as they wont start to mine minerals or go on prolonged war-campaigns against other factions. Also: while ships indeed rarely have missilefactorys on board, stations actually have factorys. The Imperial Arms depots come to mind.
Boils down to personal preference. Higher ammodensity in exchange for cost, weight and personal that needs to fabricate ammo during combat.
Built in ships are made to win the fight, not the fight after that or the one after that.
@@nguyenten6877 Rare is the occasion, where you're unable to refill your storage between fights.
@@captaincaffeine I tend to take advantage of the 0 energy usage of missile launchers and tuck them away in ship sections away from the reactor. Gives a bit more freedom when designing the ship and thus efficiency. For me, that only leaves explosive potential to worry about. Do you know, if sulfur explodes more or less violently than ammo?
from my testing, a 4x4 storage with 16 full stacks of sulfur (5) explodes with the same radius, damage and firespreadingpotential as 16 full stacks of ammo (20).
i actually love mines and desperately want to make ships that use them as a primary damage source. their damage is quite extreme, in fact, but its difficult to get them positioned correctly to utilize said damage. bit sad honestly
missle knw where it is, cuz he knw where he isnt!
What is disney destroy ip?
Are your guides still up to date?
No. They are almost 2 years old. They arent exactly wrong but a few Numbers have been changed and ballistic+engine Guide are incomplete due to new additions.
New ballistic Guide ist currently being worked on.
@@captaincaffeine Great to hear that you haven't quit the game nor youtube and are still working on a new guide. Are you also gonna touch on the new number changes for the ballistic weapons? Do you, for example, still need 3 ammo factories for 1 deck cannon and still the same amount of crew? If not, how would you approach making a deck cannon setup? What should you not do in a deck cannon design, considering the crew stunning?
The new Guide isnt Just the new addition of the chaingun. Its a complete overhaul of the original Guide With all ballistic weapons and expanded upon by talking about Penetration damage calculation for example. But since this will Still Take a good amount of time:
The deckcannon remains unchanged as the ammo per second is still 8. So 2 Factories would only supply for 40 Seconds Till you get Problems.
I also saw people recommend ammo storage for PvP. A 4x4 storage would provide you With 320 shells plus 100 already in the Cannon so you can fire for 53 Seconds but then you are completly dry.
At the end of the day its preference but i as a pure Singleplayer enjoyer would Always Go for the 3 factory Setup as you dont need to worry much about ammo and also dont run dry in a 3vs1 for example.
@@captaincaffeine Thx for the helpful response.
In your guide, can you also talk about how much power you would need for a railgun strips if you use the walkways?
little excerpt from the script:
"I hope you like walkways because your logistics will definitly need it.
Our target wont be to get as much energy to the target like for shields. We dont need high quantities as a railgun accelerator and launcher only use .5 energy per shot or .125 per second. Quantity is not the problem. Traveltime will be.
...
Option 2 is to place 2 energy sources at the ends of the railgun.
...
The second option is still superiour however."
To put that into perspective of a 8 Acc Railgun, that would be 1,125 energy per second...thats barely 2/3 of a small reactor.
i would advise you to look into the ship library for the arquebus and longspear (Monolith Combat) for some inspiration. Putting energysources on both ends of your railgun (no matter if its a capacitor or reactor) which have more tasks than just supplying your railgun is the way to go.
I was hoping to see mines being a really strong choice that people didnt take seriously but disapponted to sed they are pretty much just worse than HE period. They should be way more devastating in terms of DPS, but currently theres no reason to use them over HE or EMP other than saving space by not using a factory.
One benefit of mines that I've tested and used, is that they effectively bypass heavy point defences by nature of their fragments overwhelming and getting past it. A ship with a wall of point defence will shoot down the mines as they approach, but still get hit by the fragments fired out and start loosing PD, which then enables the more fragile missiles to get past the already distracted PD.
100% relies on the enemy chasing you though. Only tried it on AI so far.
You RoKK!!
Once I heard the Disney comment, I understood that he knew what he was talking about.
Bsrotrauma! Oh do that.
that Disney IP comment made me laugh for a good half hour :D
seeing those designs at 11:00 and having seen the pvp tournaments by saris winterwhisp or blade tardigrade.... no those designs don't cut it :)
Oh hell no. Im nowhere near their Level of ship building. Especially in pvp
You get a like for the Disney comment.
coment
nice joke at 54 seconds in