FULL PROPERTY TITLE: CTH7726 STATION COTTAGE, @ALTNABREAC, HALKIRK KW126UR TRAIN RAIL
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ย. 2024
- Here we have a downloaded up to date pdf file of title number CTH7726
STATION COTTAGE,
ALTNABREAC,
HALKIRK K
KW126UR
Title Number CTH7726
I would like to point out that this has just been downloaded and then made into this video to hopefully clarify the position the owners are in.
I've no legal experience and in no way know the owners.
I've just decided to make this video for information purposes only.
Could someone at BTP please let us know why this train station is closed and why the owners of the station house are getting so much hassle.
Here is a copy of the title deeds please can someone from BTP or network rail or scot rail explain under what conditions you can enter and build things on others property.
Many thanks
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@XtalQRP
PDF FILE LINK FOR ALTNABREAC TITLE DEEDS
drive.google.com/file/d/1vvDjqpAKjyXbESlXS6qownke0nZI5pf9/view?usp=drivesdk
As others have mentioned, the planning situation is interesting. Highland Council have granted 3 consents in the last 3 years which have a greater or lesser bearing on the couples property.
The most significant is the forestry companies consent for a timber stacking / loading bay (100m x 12m) on the opposite side of the tracks from the couples house, the Eastern end of the stack more or less aligning with their Western boundary so quite close to their house. This is 21/04300/FUL granted on 9 December 2021. There doesn't appear to be any buildings or structures related to this, other than demolition of an old "bothy" on the site. The works only comprise a graded stacking area. There are no sidings here or passing loop so the train would need to be loading whilst standing on the mainline - this would mean night operations which are potentially noisy and disruptive given proximity to their house. The area is very clearly outside their title CTH7726 but, as we know, they have now claimed to own the whole station, station buildings, former sidings and mainline track which arguably includes this area (a revised title plan was provided by the application before consent was given bur this is not included in the documents available on line). The claim by the couple may simply be to stall a "noisy neighbour" development or, potentially, to try and ransom a substantial commercial scheme....
Secondly, the former owner of the couples house secured consent to build a new house approx 400m away. This is 21/03420/FUL granted on 27 Oct 2021. It is hard to see how this impacts the couple at the station? Incidentally, I found reference to the formers owners dispute as being in relation to damage to the estate roads rather than the principle of access rights. He owns a lot of land in the area and may have been trying to enforce to 4 ton limit stated in the titles but this is conjecture on my part.
Thirdly, planning was granted for the station improvements. 23/00459/PNO was granted on 23 Feb 2023 as "permitted development". This may have irked the owners who presumably had no ability to object / contest the application. These are the works Network Rail have been hoping to progress and are more involved than first thought. In essence, they wish to install a 1.975m high "request stop" kiosk on the platform close to the current shelter. However, to power this, they are installing a 21.8m x 1.2m solar array at the opposite / west end of the platform. This has a 4.55m x 2.44m plant room and 12m high antennae. The power cables run along the rear of the platform edge to the kiosk. The location of the plant room and solar array again looks to line up with the Western boundary of CTH7726 but is close. Again, the couple have contradicted their original position and now lay claim to ownership of these old sidings albeit yet to clarify the basis of this claim.
Great post, super interesting. Yes I had heard about the kiosk and timber trains from the railforums discussion. On there people were suggesting NR had the right to do work on their land under the 1874 Railway Acts, there are also the six burdens in their title. I am just a lay person but Ian and Liz seem to have fundamentally confused ownership with NR's right of access and right to bring machines on and do work. Additionally they haven't produced any letter from NR claiming ownership of their driveway, in the latest video today they spoke of NR saying they owned access.
As regards their wider ownership claims then perhaps they are good??? But as I see it the current situation is about NR's right to come on to their land and do work, I think this is why refusal was a criminal offence and why NR had the right to get BTP involved.
In summary my opinion is Ian and Liz are prime examples of how a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, they are saying that because they own this land NR can't come on and alter it but there are also the burdens and the Railway Acts to consider, which they never seem to address.
@@dannymurphy1779 the couple are deliberately conflating "driveway" and "access" for dramatic effect. NR have always correctly referred to access. Looking at the title plan between their redline Eastern boundary and the adjoining woodland, there is a light grey strip of land - this is the station access! It is overgrown with a hedge and shrubs / young trees as, in practice, people have simply walked up their "driveway". NR could have come in and cleared the station access and laid a direct path but that would have seriously compromised the couples amenity. They have done the couple a great favour by rerouting the access path away from their house!
It is interesting to note that registered title CTH7726 has a title plan at 1:10,000. I fail to see how they have successfully scaled from that plan and so assume they are basing evidence on the larger scale "indicative" plans on the registry site or prior titles and including the aerial overlay which has no legal standing.
In their latest video they are trying to claim title of the woodland by possession. You cannot claim "title" by possession in Scotland - you must have some form of prior registration to claim title. They have yet to clarify what prior registration they have to the woodland, station, station buildings, former sidings and even the bed of the rail tracks themselves. If they are going back to sasines they should note that their purchase of CTH7726 was the third registration of title under the new ROS system (2014 split from sasine, 2018 split from split off and 2021 sale), this puts some distance between their title and any original title is sasine.
The bottom line here is, whether or not their "driveway" falls fully or partly within their title, the "driveway" is not the land NR are referring to when correctly describing the station access!
@@graemetaylor4149 Brilliant Post . At long last many thanks for providing us curious observers with major relevant information on the happenings at Altnabreac. It’s a pity that so many commenters on the couples site have not looked into this matter deeper. I will continue to watch with interest this cat and mouse game to its conclusion .
I fear the couple have purchased a pig in a poke what with the scrap yard, tyre dump and the pending Railway log loading track all is not well. However I do feel they have dealt with the fallout badly making local enemies not allies. There’s been a pattern of condescending smarmy confrontation that’s made me feel uncomfortable.The lady neighbour stopped in her car, the police & NR employees calling to the property. The misleading headlines to their videos. They portray themselves as victims backed up by spurious evidence not really willing to compromise and work together with NR to reach an amicable agreement. Forgot about no one can get a word in edge ways.
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When I first came across the cottage owners channel i did have some sympathy at first, but then you discover they are the reason for the station closing it all goes.
Kudos to the police, must have a lot of patience to deal with that abuse.
this needs sorted quickly so the station can be reopened.
So with you on this one thought I was a lone voice so pleased when others have scratched below the surface and not is all as it seems
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@@gone-in-sixty-seconds th-cam.com/video/UesuTIeOH3A/w-d-xo.html&lc=UgyPqK4fKrBBMy7bKhZ4AaABAg
@@gone-in-sixty-seconds I sent you a link but it got removed, can you see it in your blocked comments? It's to this comment "
@alexhowemardy84
3 hours ago
the people that own this account Elizabeth Howe and Ian Appleby have stolen off Elizabeth's family. they are thieves and Con artists. Found you and i will keep coming. Oh and also network rail will be very interested how you got this land with CORRUPTION"
"
@alexhowemardy84
2 hours ago
I'm the sister and they stole all our inheritance and bought this land"
"@alexhowemardy84
2 hours ago
@neil4uk175 yes it is very costly and we was struggling but we have some very helpful people behind us finally. And yea as you can imagine we lost my father but also lost a sister"
You do not need, although it helps, to have a written agreement too access across someone else's land. NR have an established right of way to access their property helped even more by the fact the cottage was built and owned by the railway before being sold. I'm not saying it's annoying to have commercial vehicles tramping past your property but I can guarantee they would have been warned of it during the conveyancing process. They need to suck it up and be grateful you can buy a house for £161k in the UK.
Thank you so much for taking the time to make this. I did feel bad for the couple at first. Sadly, I feel they are not to be trusted. When they are pressed with questions, they are hidden. Honest people embrace questions. I hope they don't scam the people who have donated to them.
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The couple are currently on bail after appearing in court.
@@alexthompson1982Ahh Sort of wondered why there YT site had gone a little quiet. Personally I don’t think some of their content puts them in a good light. The house and plot was sold off by the Railway authorities many moons ago one would think that they would have ensured they retained ground necessary for access to their platform which by the way contained a fully equipped functioning station.
Something has gone badly wrong here either NR conveyance’s have cocked up or the dynamic duo are trying to pull a flanker. 🤔
@@gone-in-sixty-seconds , I just subscribed
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The owners will end up broke if they try to fight this. It's like buying a house next to Heathrow Airport and then claiming you own the runway. They are basing claims on maps that ain't accurate. The Cadastral ain't accurate, especially when it's taken from old Sasine Deeds. It doesn't help ROS on their website allow a Google Maps overlay that's miles out, but again all this is a guide, not a legal document. It's what they fail to see. I'd like to bet the 10k they are trying raise in public donations that they don't end up in favour.
The system is that inaccurate ROS provide a free service to have it corrected. kb.ros.gov.uk/land-and-property-registration/inaccuracies-and-compensation/inaccuracy-and-rectification I know how the system was drawn which is why it's miles off at times. They also use OS maps which are now AI generated and also full of mistakes. Our deeds show a footpath through our garden that doesn't exist. There was a wall previously but the AI has decided it looks like a path and drawn it. These errors occur all the time.
Your Heathrow analogy is hilarious 🤣
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sadly (I feel for the silly and confused sods)...you are spot on !
@@alexthompson1982 @Carlos-im3hn please like share and subscribe so youtube algorithm can do the rest and get this story out there.
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th-cam.com/video/JJ6q9vngTkA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=NaeF6pLwjWsfkAvk
If it is as reported on here the case Ian and Liz are on bail regarding some missing Network Rail items then clearly they are not in a good place mentally. If you do find yourself in a boundary dispute then it is vital to get advice from a Land Surveyor before doing anything. Unfortunately it sounds like they might have convinced themselves without seeing the whole picture, they could ofcourse be right but the point is you should not be judging your own dispute because of cognitive bias. I would just ask people not to be too harsh on them because it's easy to get sucked into these type of disputes.
Deffo
Why are some of my short comments showing but most get deleted?
@Cestmoi-q5d no posts are deleted on this page by us, if they are being removed it's by TH-cam..
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@@gone-in-sixty-seconds how bizarre. I’ve posted a few times tonight and most have all gone 🤷♂️
@@gone-in-sixty-seconds I posted a link to the 19 page railway forum discussion that goes back years. Some very dark twists and turns in it.
Thank you for providing this thread on your site I noticed you’ve allowing polite free informative discussions highlighting both sides of this intriguing case. Unlike the couples you tube channel where they are creating a false impression of their plight by removing fair but critical posts that contain information they don’t want posters to see.
@chrisbutcher5179 thanks that is what is needed to get to the bottom of this issue.
I'm not affiliated in any way shape or form, it came up on my TH-cam algorithm, I've seen all the videos, reports, and what not, so decided to download the title myself and load the FULL DOCUMENTS for discussion by all.
No posts will be deleted by myself as that is not what this is for. It's a free impartial information and that's it.
@@gone-in-sixty-seconds Absolutely 👍🏻once again thank you I was too tight to pay £3 but on their last out of sequence video the chap held the title map in his hand and I managed to get screen shots of it same one as yours. I too came to the site as I have watched steam train videos on the site. I did not like their sarcastic condescending threatening approach in dealing with the locals over the “scrap yard” issue and later the Authorities trying to get them to see reason. They won’t let people get a word in edgeways. Never mind denying Ramblers a stopping off point to explore the area that they are enjoying. There’s a lot going on here that’s for sure.
"Thank you for providing this thread on your site I noticed you’ve allowing polite free informative discussions" Like the comment I just reported for saying that my wife "Ran off to join a religious cult".
@ALTNABREAC please can we have an update to the current situation.
Thanks 👍
@@ALTNABREAC is your wife not an eloped detective from Merseyside that supposedly found god pmsl aye ok then pal hame ward bound for yees biggest financial mistake of your life's picking on poor innocent work force not the corporation U clam to be fighting ha ha ha it's an absolute farce U would do anything for your 15min of fame
Brilliant! It is finally over! Liz from Altnabreac has confirmed in writing in the comments section of yesterdays video that they DO NOT OWN the light grey strip of land leading from the pedestrian gate to the platform and bordering their driveway. This is the land NR built the start of the path on and is the land i and others have been stating is the access route for sometime. Their recent surveyors report also confirmed this. However, Liz does still think that because there are shrubs and trees on this strip, this somehow stops it being the land reserved as an access route by BR when they sold the Station House in 1969!!! This is the land that NR have correctly and consistantly referred to as the "access" rather than "driveway"; they have NEVER claimed to own the driveway only the access. The couple have deliberately conflated the two to construct their dubious argument. Such a simple and obvious point to have created so much hassle! Glad they have finally conceded the point and we can all move on!
Don't get your hopes up! In a separate message they claim that as they are in "possession" of the land that the path is built on they therefore own it! They also claim to own the land under 5 miles of rail track, the station, the level crossing and all associated buildings!!😂
@@jonpotter5536 yes, I know, but it is a major hole in their argument to have confirmed the white or light grey station access route is out side their title. I expect that, in their constant quest for "the truth" that comments thread which is started by someone called "brojajara" will be deleted! I have screenshotted Liz's comment just in case it accidentally vanishes!
I am aware of their "possession" claims but, in Scotland, you cannot claim title by possession without prior registered title. Their registered title does not include that land, as Liz and their surveyor have now helpfully confirmed. They are looking back at sasine titles but are three steps removed from that so have no claim there. They may be able to claim a right to dry their clothes on that land through prescription but, having only been their for 3 years, will need affidavits from others including the previous owners to confirm the 20 years continuous unchallenged use. Given the accusations they are making against the previous owners, I doubt they will have much success their!
It will rumble on, they will change their narrative to suit but their case is now holed below the waterline.
😂
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What a surprise trees & bushes grow in 50 years😂
A new video on the Altanbreac cover up site has been posted same rhetoric new chain and improved keep out sign. Some of the sites comments beggar belief can’t understand how people can get so easily taken in without doing any background research on this fiasco.
They appear to open more rabbit holes with each video, in the latest one they point to ‘their’ compost area in the wood and mention they own the wood. Little later they read a letter from a surveyor which the owners imply they agree with the surveyors ‘off-site’ observations, the letter gives the opinion of the title boundary at the point of boundary between driveway/wood so wood is outside of owners boundary. At end of video the last part of letter is shown with satellite/boundary which clearly show the wood being outside of the ‘owners’ boundary.
Finally the washing line, clearly outside the boundary, owner believe evidence it’s been in use at least 20years, is this a land grab of the home owners(inc previous owners) part or just permitted use of the land.
It’s a total mess, I don’t agree with the home owners on most of their points, they need to pay for an expert Scottish surveyor+solicitor to get the facts straight on what they own and agree access/maintenance by network rail is required to the station irrespective of who owns the land.
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@@DaveWhitehead The thing that struck me is how much faith they are putting into the surveyor's letter when he constantly uses the word 'appears'. If he were certain of the facts surely he would say it 'clearly' or 'positively' shows the boundaries. He also concludes by basically saying he'd need a site visit to confirm anything! I wouldn't trust the use of that letter to 'prove' anything myself!
In one video they mention having "factual possession" of part of the land. This is only normally relevant to an attempt at adverse possession i.e. trying to take ownership of land you know you don't own. The process of doing this usually involves securing the land by padlocking any gates, putting up signs saying private property, and telling anyone who goes near it that it's yours. If you're the true owner factual possession isn't relevant. They may just be using terms they read on the internet incorrectly (there's a lot of that) but there's definitely more to this than is being presented in the videos.
Yes quite possible. I have also read that they might be continuing an existing dispute started by the previous owners.
I have dealt with a lot of rural land disputes and generally there are failures on both sides. One side will be most right and the other mostly wrong, but because neither is perfect it gets muddy. However, I recognise a lot of the behaviour. The ones waving bits of paper, accusing everyone of various offences, and trying to trip everyone up with procedural minutia, are usually in the wrong and somewhat aware of it. Whereas those just trying to keep their heads down and get a job done, tend to be in the right. I fear that when their crowd funded lawyer and surveyor tell them something they don't want to hear, they will just accuse their own experts of being corrupt and end up back at square one.
Once the landowner disputes your ownership the clock stops for claiming adverse possession and so the claim fails
In the video where they did a walkthrough on the footpath route with the network rail staff before they built it they said they owned all of the land through 'Solomon rights' between two lochs one of which is something like 20 miles away from their house.
@@Andy-Abraham I think they said "solemn rights" - although googling it just comes up with people discussing their videos so not really sure what they mean...
I've given the couple advice online but my comments were removed to create a narrative they want, rather than the truth. NR need to take these folk to court and the Police need to charge them. I'm 100% confident they don't own the trackbed or the platform or the access road, there is no way any lawyer acting for NR would sell off all this.
@@alexthompson1982 Same observation and conclusion as you. The couple purport to be lambs 🐑 but do the digging and you soon find out they are crafty foxes. 🦊. There is so much wrong with their narrative.Manipulation to get sympathy and to persuade people to give them go fund me money, or buy me a coffee. Misleading headlines to many of their videos just another example of their craft.
Have I got this right?
The ‘drive’ they claim is solely theirs is shown on the cadastral as shared ownership (one side on their property, and the other with someone else), split down the middle on the map.
Burden 3 then explains this route is shared ownership of both parties and is shown on the map as such by being split down the middle between both properties.
I believe this is the reason Network Rail think they have legitimate access. And as a non legal expert I am inclined to agree.
As a non legal expert, but also having a shared driveway in Scotland, I also agree.
@@javelinXH992 As a non legal expert you seem to know what you’re talking about.
@@chrisbutcher5179 I think they try to make it at least vaguely understandable for us mere mortals. The picture helps a lot!
If they own both sides of "the 'drive" (something was mentioned by both Liz and Ian in the 15 Sept 2024 video); does the "shared" aspect of the access now become irrelevant? #hmm 🤔?
fascinating point. The forest road outside the gate _also_ probably had prior access to the property driveway (inside the gate) to haul on lorries or trucks large lumber to the rail station.
This tidbit is fascinating and goes beyond the public access pedestrian pathway topic.
Thank you for this clear point !
Thanks for sharing this. 👍
My pleasure
The Eastern.....
Does anybody else think the surveyors letter looks dubiously edited?
Surveyor’s letters are usually very waffly and very technical, this is neither and is more like the words of a layperson. Professional correspondence should be addressed to Dear not Dear Sir. Would expect far more detail than 'I put one view on top of another and my god your right'. Odd coincidence thats their laymans method too. A surveyor wouldn't just refer to "a drawing" they would name documents explicitly. A qualified surveyor should have known and advised them on the standard caveats on the Registry of Scotland's website about scaling inaccuracies. Possible copy lines/artefacts are visible toward the top and bottom of the letter from copy pasta or scanning. But frankly none of that matters just go read how they have responded to supporters who are now making the very reasonable suggestion that their next step is to book the surveyor to visit them and eyeball things. Their replies range from don't need to we know its ours, to dodging the question entirely, but none contain the correct answer of "yes we're going to book him to visit us ASAP using the money the gofundme has raised so far".
'Dubiously edited...!' Let's just cut to the chase here and save time, it looks fake, false, fictitious, made up, not real. Now, I wonder why?
@@musicman4164 So they can use the money raised for themselves. Is it not against benefit rules to have extra money while claiming benefits? They obviously don't work.
@@musicman4164 Possibly because more and more people are questioning their story and realising that the evidence they are challenging BTP and NR with is potentially worthless. The GoFundMe isn't going as they hoped, so they needed to present something to the camera that strengthens their position in the court of public opinion, even if that means faking it.
Many thanks for this. I was on their side until I saw the "The eastern" orphan phrase in the surveyor's letter which set off my something's not right detector.
Unlike the purported surveyor, I have accessed the relevant OS map and a clearer copy of the OS aerial image. Given that cadastral maps are derived from the Ordnance Survey, which now relies on aerial photography, the two are likely to be closely aligned.
It appears that the cattle grid is not on Station Cottage property but is immediately adjacent to the boundary.
The adjacent pedestrian gate does not seem to be on the boundary due to the boundary turning north for a few meters beginning at the cattle grid. This small kink likely had a purpose.
The entire road from the cattle grid to the house is within the Station Cottage boundaries.
The blue strip on the map that appears at time 1:00 is likely the access that followed a pre-existing road to the railway station. It was probably the route intended by Burden 2 of the Title. It has since been built upon and blocked. This is of little consequence if a good alternative exists, which it does. There is no need to be pedantic and require the offending building to be demolished.
The inconvenience of allowing railway workers access under Burden 2 is trifling compared to the consequences of resisting reasonable access.
Any sasine rights that were attached to Station Cottage but are not specifically included in its title have likely been extinguished or assigned to the adjoining title CTH5589, BADNAHEEN, ALTNABREA.
A huge and damaging fuss about nothing.
@@rascalnz9983 You may like to delete this and post it as a stand-alone comment.
@@Graham_Langleyagreed.
On here and ON THERE.
Gone I Sixty seconds I know that like me you have taken an interest in this matter and have provided space for a fair and balance debate on this story . Today the couple at the centre of this dispute have posted a video whose content gives a much clearer picture of their situation. I have made the following comments about the video on their site and as usual put my pennies worth into it. As it might or might not get taken down I have copied it and pasted it below. :-
Finally a clearer video that clarifies a lot of raised questions in this saga. It appears that NR have greatly improved the access for ramblers providing a clearly identified pathway to their platform Ramblers no longer need to trample down your wide driveway potentially wandering around your ex station house. Surely this is a win for you to be fair it looks a really nice path.
There must be other issues here for you to be getting so uptight about for the record not everyone is supportive of you like others I certainly have had my doubts about your motives here. At least this latest video gives me a better understanding of what's happening on the site if and when this goes to court I'm glad I'm not the one who's got to adjudicate in this matter.
PS. I still believe the granting of planning permission for the rail logging station is in some way contributing to this dispute and that NR envisage an increase in 'passenger' numbers transportation of forestry workers and the like. In parting the new pathway keeps them away from 3 elevations of your property.
It is an interesting question about which path to now use! My guess about the new path is it is for taking materials down to the station as they are renewing quite a few items down there plus building a new kiosk. Perhaps the first path RoW is for passangers and does not extend to railway operations??? Or perhaps the stones give more grip and it is a H&S matter??? I would think the idea is for passengers to use the existing access down the drive but we will see!
Think I am banned too but I asked them to show the letter where NR claim ownership of the driveway. Ian and Liz seem to have mixed up land ownership with NR's right to come on their land and do work, which would fall under the Railway Acts and their burdens. I believe this is why refusal became a criminal offence and why NR had the right to get BTP involved. So I don't believe it was a civil property dispute atall. And Ian and Liz know it which is why when push came to shove they gave in and let NR do the work. They might have a valid claim over their boundary dispute if indeed there is one but that is a separate civil matter.
@dannymurphy1779 I have pointed out sec 14 of the railway regulation act and other pieces of legislation with regards to NR being able to access and use their land without their permission. Always gets ignored and or deleted. Don't get me wrong do I advocate for NR driving an excavator up their drive etc no. But can they legally do it? I presume so. Ultimately that's for a court to decide but I am aware of many pieces of legislation that fall in NR's favour.
Please see and share this post of mine th-cam.com/video/fjDBQgjMSKM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=11ambC4_dxIq0n5e
Thanks 👍
Please see and share this post of mine th-cam.com/video/fjDBQgjMSKM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=11ambC4_dxIq0n5e
Thanks 👍
@@dannymurphy1779A well thought out piece so refreshing that this site is available for interested parties in this dispute to get both sides of the story not just Ian & Liz’s tampered redacted version
I see Caledonia forest investment Ltd have approval to build a railway sliding near their property to move 9000 tons of timber.
As this is desirable to move freight to rail from the roads it's going to get rather busy with machinery and lorries working and coming and going,
I wonder if they have put a spanner in the works hard to see as it's already approved another interesting 🤔 angle.
Hallelujah no longer am I lonely voice in the wilderness. Planning was approved at a similar time this couple purchased the property. I’ve asked has anyone seen the documents relating to the proposed location of the new rail link and rail depot in close proximity to the station.
@@chrisbutcher5179It is strange that it has never been mentioned previously,
It obviously would have a greater impact on them than a couple of people a day passing their property?.
@@chrisbutcher5179 If you want to see what the area looks like back in 2021 use this link to a 360 ° streetmap view where you can zoom into it www.google.co.uk/maps/@58.387999,-3.7063815,3a,79.7y,10.76h,94.17t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipNYU8DrGZRVA_4zXz9h-5RSKD85-pRgcEuyEC6q!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipNYU8DrGZRVA_4zXz9h-5RSKD85-pRgcEuyEC6q%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya74.56579-ro-0-fo100!7i4608!8i2304!5m1!1e4?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDkxNi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
@@chrisbutcher5179 Planning Application 21/04300/FUL Caledonia Forest Land Investment Ltd wam.highland.gov.uk/wam/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=QZ5YM4IHKPU00
@@chrisbutcher5179 You can find what you want at the highland council planning dept website for Planning Application 21/04300/FUL Caledonia Forest Land Investment Ltd - Google for highland council planning then view planning applications then search using the reference number 21/04300/FUL. (if I add a link then the post gets removed)
I wonder what the couples end game actually is. If they lose then they'll be liable for costs etc and it probably ruin them. If they win NR will still get access somehow or other as access is required to maintain the station and line. The couple have already been up in court in Wick regarding theft of NR property and line trespass I think. They didn't do their homework. The seller got out just in time before 9000 tonnes of timber passes along their shared drive! Personally I think they're more worried about the timber yard than some footpath repairs and are trying to get the station closed by their actions before that freight trundles (very closely) past their living room window.
Yep the can of worms has well and truly been opened. The couple have made a lot of enemies in and around Altnabreac. Their early videos were inflammatory edited so you don’t really get the full story. The proposed logging railhead definitely dovetails into this story. Just hope for their sake a holding railway line is not run alongside the existing track as the pictures of the logging wagons sitting outside of your picture windows would really upset their apple cart.
Go fund me or buy me a coffee you choose.
@@chrisbutcher5179 I bet those timber trains will have to toot their horn to make passengers at the station aware there is a train passing through!
@@dannymurphy1779 maybe the timber trains will do it on night shifts.
I feel for this couple (sad and sorry they are); however, the couple's methods are contrary to the law.
It's the passengers I feel sorry for...
The station is closed.
@@WeeBurnip-lz3fr Hence I feel sorry for the passengers....they want to get on/off there but through no fault of their own they find the station is closed.
@@BibTheBoulderTheOriginalOne also through no fault of the land owners.
@@WeeBurnip-lz3fr I think you are missing my point.
@@BibTheBoulderTheOriginalOne I'm not.
Burden 2... The (second ) Reservation is for vehicular and pedestrian access along the line marked in blue.. NR has the right to bring vehicles along that path past the house.... That is the one line which damns them and shows they are in the wrong. There is 0.340 Acres of NR land which they have a right to access and maintain which is within the area marked pink. That is Game over for the owners of the house there..
I wouldn't get too hung up with Burden 2. As plot CTH7726 extends further west than the land this burden is about. Yes the railways can be on the blue strip... but they can't get onto it frim the west without permission.
The track (drive) access however is at least the width of the cattle grid and pedestrian gate. With the boundary down the centre line of it, granted by burden 4.
Just because the cattle grid is mainly on one side doesn't mean the other party can't have vehicular access. Ian and Liz use and lock the pedestrian gate, which is on the other side of the access.
Burden 7 also prevents Ian and Liz from changing the red boundary line until 2029. Yes they can challenge it, but it can't be brought to tribunal for a legal decision
Turning their confused ideas around. If they own the solum rights to the station, platform and everything. Does that mean they need to pay Network Rail for the maintenance, repair and upgrades to get the station open! Absolutely nuts
@@RichardVanags the blue land is interesting and another twist / complexity in the case which I was hesitant to raise. However, the house has been extended (by a previous owner) over that blue strip so access over it is now not physically possible. On face value, that puts the title in breach of burden 2 as they are expressly required to keep it clear. However, I reality, I expect British Rail or NR as successor were probably approached before building (BR/NR consent is needed before building on the land) and, in all likelihood an alternative access agreement was agreed. Note that BR also reserved all access etc rights "whether formally constituted or not" so such an agreement need not show on the title (albeit it would be better if it did) This is another reason I feel confident that BR/NR do have the access rights they claim.
In summary, the fact the blue strip does not reach their western boundary is irrelevant as the access is permanently blocked by the house extension. Either the proprietor of CTH7726 is in breach of title conditions by not obtaining BR consent for the extension and for blocking a servitude right of access or, BR/NR did consent and agreed alternative access.
@@graemetaylor4149 From the first video I saw it was obvious there was a problem with what they claimed. They talk about the platform being their back garden but it is not actually their garden it is shared land which NR has rights to and can do whatever work they need or want to do. I they want to place a building anywhere on their platform or the 0.34 acres they own within that pink area there is nothing the current occupants can do about it.
I think they need to stap back from their moral crusade and look at the currently pending legal action against them and walk back what they have said. I don't think there is anything they can do about the prosecution for walking on the track and stopping an actual train so will have to face that one as it is.. But having come from a town to live rurally it is a massive change and now almost 30 years later, I wouldn't want to live in a town, but know we have to accept the compromises placed on you for rural life.
@@neilpurdie1820 unfortunatly you are misguided. Burden 2 clearly states that that where the boundary is edged with a stream, road etc then the owner of the plot only has Mutual Ownership of the stream, road etc i.e.they don't fully own it The blue strip is where its is as NR have acess rights to the extenssion of the access road going North from the cattle grid i.e. the 'driveway' and the acess road on West side as well so they only need the blue area to be able to cross it to get access to the quary (where NR will alsohave access rights). Thats why its drawn that way.
I guess the $64000 dollar question is was all this declared by the previous sellers??? It would be very interesting to see the sales documents if the channel owner has them. If the situation has been misrepresented to the current owners they would at least be able to take legal action against the previous owners. For me there are two elements of this, firstly the case against Network Rail and secondly a possible misrepresentation by the sellers or professional negligence by the solicitors.
I know plenty have said they should have known because the house is next to the railway but perhaps it was misrepresented??? I can understand it feeling like an absolute nightmare if so.
All I know is if it was me I would be looking for a Surveyor who is local and has had dealings with Network Rail before. If you go down the legal route it's High Court and barristers in England at least, insanely expensive. But when two groups of Surveyor's talk to each other the focus is on finding a solution.
Their own solicitor will have had access to the documents registered and perhaps to supplementary title documents also...I do not see how they could have been unaware of these access rights...
Hey gone-in-sixty, your YT skills are good! The algorithm has started placing this video in my recommends side bar when browsing the you-know-who channel! 👍 It's learning! But it will probably be the videos with the most engagement (e.g. views and comments) that bubble up into peoples feeds. So perhaps don't over do it with the updates because although good for momentum it could be that they dilute traffic away from your star video which is this one at 10k views.
It’s appears to me that they definitely do not own the platform or any part of the rail, & it also most certainly seems like they only own around 1/3rd of the track upto their home from the cattle grid onwards.
Not the entire track/road as they wrongly keep stating.
Therefore it has to be stated they only have limited access rights onto their land, hence, had absolutely no right to block access to the track by chaining & padlock both the cattle grid or the footgate.
If NR takes this to Court they are going to lose their home because of costs to both parties which they will be responsible for.
I hope nr takes them to court and they loose there home that will teach them
@@michaelwebster6219it's a pity nobody taught you two how to spell *lose. 🙄
@@WeeBurnip-lz3fr predictive text 🙄 🤷♂️
“Two” ???
See how easy it happens….
@@michaelwebster6219 I wouldn’t wish that on them.
They just need to give their heads a damn good wobble & get over of the delusion they’ve created & keep reinforcing for themselves.
To a degree, it appears the couple are now sharing a joint psychosis by wrongfully enforcing each others misbelief of owning property that they haven’t ever purchased.
@@GONEMAD1 from the many stories ive read online theyve shared that delusion long before they moved to the railway house. she ran away from home to join a religious cult, chained herself to the fence and shouted bible verses at the workers and locals, hes clearly taken advantage of her fragile state of mind. theyve made life for locals an absolute nightmare and theyre the direct reason the station shut down.
The map that appears at time 1:00 in this video shows a blue strip parallel to the tracks and passing under the house. It was taken from the Scotland Land Information Service website. It is almost certainly NOT the map referred to in the Land title document CTH7726.
The likely correct map appears in a traveller's video which shows a blurry location map on the platform. The blue strip on this map is on the NE boundary and at right angles to the rail tracks.
th-cam.com/video/wwboSc3nPHE/w-d-xo.html
The privately owned northern railway was opened in 1874 with strong public and landowner support. It and the entire railway system was nationalized in 1947, sold into private ownership Railtrack Ltd in 1994. It seems British Rail had already started sell off assets before this.
The red boundary lines on the Title document likely matched the footprint of long-established features.
_________________________________
Transcription of a small part of the title document: [may contain errors]
Burden 2 [on page 6 of 12]
Disposition by The British Railways Board to Robin MacDonald Sinclair and his executors and assignees, recorded G.R.S. (Caithness) 13 Jun. 1969, of that lot or area of ground situated at Altnabreac in the Parish of Halkirk extending to 0.340 acres, of which that part of the subjects in this Title tinted pink and blue on the cadastral map form part, contains the following burdens:
(First) our said disponee and his foresaids shall be bound forthwith to enclose in so far as not already done by erecting along the boundaries of the said subjects hereby disponed suitable fences and to provide and hang gates at either end of the access hereinafter specified which fences along with those fences already existing on the boundaries of the said subjects and the said gates shall be maintained and upkept at the sight and to the satisfaction of us the said British Railways Board and our successors at the sole expense of our said disponee and his foresaids;
(Second) Reservation in favour of us and our foresaids of a heritable and irredeemable servitude right of access for vehicular and pedestrian traffic over the strip of land tinted blue on the said map;
etc
Thank you for sharing. If I understand the text correctly, it is clear to see that the title does not allow Network Rails access across the property on the title. But the description states that the title is for the land within the red boundary line on the plan. The existing road, cattle grid and platform are all clearly outside the red boundary (note the title only refers to the plan, not satellite imagery, so legally the satellite overlay is not valid). If anything I feel this only helps prove NR's case that the owners of Station Cottage have no right to stop access across the cattle grid. However the property owners can stop NR accessing the blue strip from the "quarry". I maybe missing something of course, but it seems very clear to me. The only sensible solution for the owners is to get a solicitor involved, but I suspect even then the plan is accurate.
@@LocalmotionSpain there is access on the blue strip (what Ian and liz refer to as the Randsom Strip). There is nothing stopping Network Rail bringing all there plant through the quarry end access and using a telehandler/crane to lift any goods over the tree line. Absolutely nothing. And they’d be sat right next to the house while doing it.
" The existing road, cattle grid and platform are all clearly outside the red boundary". It is not clear at all and therein lies the problem. The red boundary seems to me to run down the middle of the track.
@@ditch3827 with you on that one. The red line does indeed appear to run down the middle. I am no solicitor and some of the wording is quite hard to navigate but in Burdens 1 & 3 (I think) there is reference to boundaries in middle of shared ditches, streams and roads.
I just don’t know why they are putting themselves through this. Surely the answer is to have some sort of mediation and reach a compromise of sorts. Liz and Ian will be the ones crushed and ruined as they don’t have the money and are emotionally invested which is probably worst.
I was very supportive until I checked it all.
There has always been a track and gate to the platform.
Passengers walked down there to get the train.
Look up on Internet you can see in older arial pictures.
But it's still a car crash.
This could of been sorted out with two fences in place.
Also there should be a fence along the platform between the house and platform.
That's a accident waiting to happen.
This fight for access started long before this couple.
The old owners still have land near by.
They started this.
I would look at solicitors who helped buy this house in first place.
Railway could of built new path outside there gate and made new entrance on the right to the path that was already there.
Think both parties need to work it out between them.
The red boundary is shown in the middle of the acess road going from the Cattlegrid northwards to the station as the title deeds indicate that where there is a road at the boundary that they only have mutual ownership of it i.e.they don't own the road fully themselves so its not thier 'land'. Yes, they own the garden fully but not the road. Network rail have acess to that road and thats why the Blue area on the plan starts where it does as NR can acess right up to the station so they only need acess to the Blue part so that they can cross the blue bit toget to the other side where NR also have acess. Note that the blue area ends where the road on the other side starts so there is no need to lift anything over the 'gap'
A Caithness couple have appeared at Wick Sheriff Court accused of stealing property belonging to Network Rail.Ian Appleby (46) and his partner Elizabeth Howe (48) made no declaration during a brief appearance on petition, in private, before Sheriff Mark Lindsay, at Wick, today.
Both were granted bail with special conditions
Source.
John ogroat journal 20-march-2024
@@Andy-Abraham well who said there was no justice in this country absolutely brilliant news they fooled me with the videos at first but 3rd video in I was like wait a minute here there no righters n there babbling
Strange how that hasn't been mentioned in any of their videos....!!
Elizabeth's sister wrote this on their newest video "the people that own this account Elizabeth Howe and Ian Appleby have stolen off Elizabeth's family. they are thieves and Con artists. Found you and i will keep coming. Oh and also network rail will be very interested how you got this land with CORRUPTION""
alexhowemardy84
2 hours ago
I'm the sister and they stole all our inheritance and bought this land"
"@alexhowemardy84
2 hours ago
@neil4uk175 yes it is very costly and we was struggling but we have some very helpful people behind us finally. And yea as you can imagine we lost my father but also lost a sister"
"
It does say on the title deeds “Shared access for both the public and vehicles not weighing more than 4 tons….. So, what’s their problem ? Oh yeah, might upset their chickens 😂😂😂😂
Do we know what the land is that they say they own all around? Can’t see anything. A huge swathe Ian said he owned was bought for £3.5m in fairly recent years and when I ask the Q two or three times last night my posts kept disappearing……..
@@Cestmoi-q5d So your Posts are disappearing so are mine and guess what you are asking the same kind of questions as me it stinks really dodgy stuff going on here please keep in touch NR v dodgy couple who’s in the right what are they hiding ??
@@chrisbutcher5179
Liz was previously reported missing by close ones after she "turned to God" back in 2020.
A UK-wide police hunt later located her safe and well in the Highlands, with relatives claiming she had cut herself off after trying to "warn people" that "God was coming to take us away".
@@chrisbutcher5179 does seam all about iffy. I’m very very open minded and have no axe to grind with either party. I’ve read all the back story on various media outlets about her previous issues and looked through that. I fear the longer this goes on then more will come about them that can be substantiated.
As for the current debate? It’s bonkers. Not decorating your house for three years is commitment to a cause at its best but at what cost? Health/bankruptcy/marriage?
Go fund me can raise £kkkkkks but NWR will still do win. If I was NWR I’d be bringing all my plant in through the ransom strip and parking it there for days on end, offloading over the tree line by crane then building a bloody big fence after taking all of the tree line out. I’d break them emotionally. So all they had to stare at in their remote tranquility was a carbuncle of a wall.
I can see this ending in tears. Badly.
@@chrisbutcher5179my posts got removed, when asking stuff as on some videos he says owns some more land around then next moment says forestry own it
@@chrisbutcher5179 the house sold for less than two hundred thousand.
They have land behind the path going up to the water it's thin strip of land.
Liz & Ian, it is time for a restart. A new beginning. A clean slate. Let bygones be bygones. Forget past slights, hasty words and misspeaks.
Erroneous statements may be mistakes or misunderstandings rather than lies.
In the overall scheme of things your concerns are trivial.
Station House is very remote and far from public roads. Its resale value likely depends in large measure on continued rail access. Is your mortgagee, if any, aware and happy with what is going on?
Keeping the station open, and convenient and safe to use is in the public interest.
The transition from feudal land laws to modern is complex and difficult and likely to be extremely expensive if taken as a test case with wide implications.
The new path and a new fence adjacent to the railway platform will divert strangers from the immediate vicinity of your house and improve your privacy.
@rascalnz9983 please like subscribe and share so youtube algorithm can do the rest and get this story out there for everyone to see.
Thanks 👍
Does anyone know when the gate and fence (can clearly be seen in Jamsters video on TH-cam) between the house and the platform were removed? I seem to remember the Station House owners claiming that the platform was their garden, which seems very unlikely for so many reasons. Was the fence/gate removed as a land grab?
They was removed after the 8th September 2023, when i asked this question, they said ask SCOTRAIL.
They record or video everything so surely must have footage just choose not to post it or give a full response.
Thanks 👍
There's usually three sides to every disputes, the main thing for years there have been public access to Altnabraec station and Network Rail previously British Rail permanent way, so why have a dispute now after regular public access haslong been established.
I understand threats have been made to NR workers and the public walking to the station, whether that's true or not I don't know if there's video evidence of them doing so it weakens their case, the fact it's been mentioned needing the involvment of BTP.
@colinvespa4709 thanks for your comments. Yes, we have heard lots of different things, and are trying to get through it all.
Not sure if you are any train forums but if you are would you kindly mention this channel on it as it may help us all to get to the end of the line so to speak.
Thanks 👍
Given the access rights described at 1:48 would Network Rail have the authority to improve or maintain the single access route mentioned and agreed up on?
Be interesting to see what they have to say on the approved rail siding near them to take 9000 ton's of timber initially via rail.
I wonder if Caledonia forest investment Ltd will be allowed by them to crack on or will they need their permission 😊.
On further investigation the timber will be loaded straight onto the trains on the main track no ground works or building required it is for a trial period but everyone in the region is behind the proposal to move timber from the Highlands off the roads and onto the rail network.
Environmental campaigners, highland council, Forestry Commission, timber companies and local communities and politicians are keen to see that government policy is adhered to and actively supported when it is beneficial to the community at large and the environment.
I see they have finally responded to someone else regarding the timber freight issue as always the poor us so story.
I understand covenants within Title Deeds and any vehicle / Plant / Machinery over 4 tons needs written permittion from the land owner of the access point ?? cattle grid ?? and there are no bylaws or statements by the secretary of state in allowing a commercial right of way to the station ?? Within Title deeds when the station cottage was sold to a new owner ??
My reading of the Station House title CHT7726 is that there are restrictions on the owners of house using the private roads, that they do not own, leading to their property. These restrictions are presumably designed to protect the road surface, bridges, culverts etc. from damage, and other road users from injury. The restrictions appear in no way unreasonable. The nearest public road is more than 7 km away to the east at Loch More.
Burden 2 of the title requires, among other things, for: "Reservation in favour of [Briitish Rail] of a heritable and irredeemable servitude right of access for vehicular and pedestrian traffic over the strip of land tinted blue on the said map."
This requirement was likely imposed when the house and its land was sold in 1969 to Robin Macdonald Sinclair, 2nd Viscount Thurso of Ulbster (1922-1995). The viscountcy is a recent political creation (1952).
Confusingly, the accompanying map provided by Scotland's Land Information Service does not seem to make sense in the present day. The blue strip runs parallel to the rain tracks under the house and connects to nothing. There is no sign of the "A" and "B" labels mentioned. If the house was enlarged alternative access to the railway station would have been required. Perhaps it was not registered.
The resale value of the very isolated house will likely be greatly diminished if the railway station were to close.
They've uploaded a new video today and it's a 100% recycle of their badly written surveyors letter, and old footage.
@jcjc1121 please like subscribe and share so youtube algorithm can do the rest and get this story out there for everyone to see.
Thanks 👍
Thanks for the heads up I've seen it and unfortunately i and lots of others are unable to comment on there page as they have blocked us and removed our comments.
That is the reason i started posting on this subject as lots of different things to ask but not much or nothing at all in response.
Thanks 👍
As far as I can see the access could be through the quarry,and with a little discussion instead of demands and threats the whole situation could have been avoided. It appears that both sides have now dug in their heels, perhaps some mediation is needed.
It could. However land would have to be purchased and a long path/track layed or improved on land currently owned under title CTH5589.
That's still discounting NR then having the same problems accessing the platform, when it's claimed that the platform is actually their garden.
Just had a reply from Liz (on their TH-cam channel, re their alleged ownership of the wood by their drive also the railway platform and railway track. I have taken a screenshot but don't know how to post it on this site
@Ireallydontknow8581 unfortunately you can't load images on here, I've been blocked on there chanel like many others, 😕
Thanks 👍
Could you tell us what it said please? Was this a private message to you or can we find it under one of their videos? (if so which one?)
@jcjc1121 please like subscribe and share so youtube algorithm can do the rest and get this story out there for everyone to see.
Thanks 👍
@@jcjc1121 it was in their video "network rail lied..." as an answer to my question "you own...." the reply was 10 hours ago. Hopefully you can find it.
Reply was "we own the solum to approx 5 miles of railway line passing through Altnabreac, together with the solum to the attached ground and buildings erected thereon. The attached ground includes the station platform, private level crossing at altnabreac and the adjoining land where NR built the path. The ownership rights are recorded in the Sasine register in prior deeds (pre-existing rights granted with the Station house) they came with the property"
From their latest video Network Rail Gifted Thousands of Tons.
It's looking increasingly likely that they bought this property because they heard about this £500/visit and thought they had hit the jackpot of their lives with this tip off. And they might have if they'd asked a solicitor to make enquiries into the prior agreements and try to re-negotiate them - AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE. Like any competent person would think to do. It's hard to grasp the level of crazy that instead drove them to believe think they could make this happen after the fact by throwing legal threats around, especially when they're too penniless to follow them through. Now they are stuck with a house whose value they've trashed and have two court cases pending against them. Winter is coming.
@@jcjc1121 I managed to leave comments on there page this evening, and said I've been blocked or messages removed,
Then i get message back saying I'm a liar....
Then I'm told I'm a pathological liar.
I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this and understand what's actually going on, one min it's possible tresspass, then it's about the wildlife, then about the projects, now it's about scrap metal.
I have more video coming over the next few days at 4pm
Thanks 👍
@@gone-in-sixty-secondsthey must have been up all night removing comments. Dozens are gone.
@@bionic4368 yet they claim to me I'm a pathological liar, and they only remove abusive messages.
Having just read an owners update about 10.40 17/9 . We may have here a case of land sold with a plan that does not match the official digital record for what ever reason ! I would suspect previous owners "mistake" ? This CTH7726 would seem to make sense , and they have rights of access to the cattle grid but there starts the issue or have they legally added land from joining land at some point ? Not spotted by NR ?
LINK PLEASE
@JSDENNETT please can we have a link to what you are referring to? The update around 16.40 on 17th September
Thanks 👍
19:35 and i cant see any update since this morning. Either logged in or as a guest.
Are you subscribed to their channel? Im not.
@neilpurdie1820 I am but seen nothing yet.
@@gone-in-sixty-seconds Community Tab 👍🏼
You’ve removed comments on every other video
@@martinsutherland4270 I've only posted this video regarding this train station, I believe you may be getting me mixed up with the owners, my page name is different to there's.
My site started years and years ago.
Please see my other videos,
And share this story with everyone else you know on the train or railway forums.
Thanks 👍
Your targeting the wrong guy getting him mixed up with the Altanbreac cover up couple a lot going on there, sympathise with them buy um a coffee and you will be well received.
So many people concerned with someone elses business!!!! I hope all the specialists on here are going up against the government next 🤣😂🤣😂
The unexplained (well, until now!) closure of a public railway station, and how that station is or isn't to be accessed, is a matter of genuine public interest. As for going up against the government, well if I had to I wouldn't be throwing around outrageous accusations of trespass, criminal damage, abuse of power and bullying, until I had checked and checked again my land ownership rights with independent experts. That way I wouldn't be left my trousers down holding my john if the whole while my proof was actually nothing but hearsay and misunderstood documents that I had built a false narrative around.
@@jcjc1121 this is exactly why I commented. Have you really spent time investigating someone else's business!!!! Hmmmm need to get a hobby or TV 👍
@@jcjc1121 The crazy couple have been known to use other usernames, They exposed themselves on the rail forum. I would not be surprised if some of the comments are from themselves using another name.
th-cam.com/video/a3valF7urmE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=OQR8NNyY0g6Y0YIk
Interesting clip from about 5 years ago. Clearly not a "legal" document but at about 1.30min it shows the information board with the curtilage of the station. This shows at the time NR believes the area covered by the station includes the track beyo d the cattle grid.
Good spot. Interesting that NR felt the need to show the extent of the station boundary. Perhaps it was to try to keep customers off the private areas of other titles but it very much has the road in question recorded as NR's.
Could someone at BTP please let us know why this train station is closed and why the owners of the station house are getting so much hassle.
Here is a copy of the title deeds please can someone from BTP or network rail or scot rail explain under what conditions you can enter and build things on others property.
Many thanks
th-cam.com/video/JJ6q9vngTkA/w-d-xo.html
Just loaded the above message onto the following sites under comments on there most recent uploaded video.
British transport police
Network rail
Scot rail
Please study the plan at the start of your video.
The registered title CTH7726 is defined and fully enclosed by the redline.
Look at the approaching access track and notice how the redline title aligns with the middle of the track. As you enter CTH7726 there is a short 45* boundary allowing the owners to turn left onto their land.
Through the cattle grid / gate you can turn right onto the station access shown as a white strip of land; this is what the owners are calling the "public right of way" to the station platform. This is also the land NR have been working on. This is NOT on CTH7726.
Any burden or servitude right in favour of NR will therefore not appear on CTH7726 as that is not the title they are crossing!
This does not prove that NR have access rights over this but given that the station has operated for 150 years, prescriptive rights will apply. Failing which, if NR own the rail track, they cannot landlock through sale, implied access rights will always apply.
The owners of CTH7726 posted this plan to show the extent of their Registered Title, they claimed no other ownership at the time. Oddly, they now claim to own the land to the east of CTH7726, the station, the sidings and the railway but have failed to disclose the basis of this?
They have also failed to deny that NR obtained an interdict preventing them from obstructing access. A court would not award such an interdict without being satisfied on the legal basis of the access claim.
Thanks for this detailed response, could you supply any documentation to clarify what you are saying please.
@@gone-in-sixty-seconds They did say the platform was their back garden in one of the videos.
It wasn’t clear if they just meant their house backed onto the platform or if they were saying they owned the platform.
@@gone-in-sixty-seconds I only have the same information as you which I also accessed from ROS.
To try and clarify further. The darker grey road coming from the bottom right of the plan is the estate road over which they have access rights. Where this meets title CTH7726 there are a series of dotted lines forming a triangle. The dotted line across the access road is where the gate and cattle grid sits - this is shown regularly on the couples videos. You can see that this line IS NOT in the CHT7726 title. CHT7726 meets the access road through the gate and at 45* to the line of the access. This short 45* boundary meets their main Eastern boundary AT THE MID POINT of the track as it passes through the gate.
Passing through the gate, there is also a 45* angle to the right onto a lighter grey or white strip of land which continues to the station. This follows the redline boundary but lies OUTSIDE it - it is not part of CHT7726. This is the station access and is the land on which NR have formed a path.
In their videos, you can see a pedestrian gate to the side of the cattle grid / vehicle gate which leads directly onto this white station access. The couple can be seen padlocking this gate despite also referring to it as a "public right of way". They also state it is on their Registered Title but I hope you can now see it is not on CTH7726?
Unfortunately, the couple appear to have been basing their argument on an aerial overlay plan which appears to show the full width of the access drive in their ownership. As you have proved by accessing the title, this aerial plan does not form any part of the title and has no legal status.
The couple are now claiming ownership of other land including the station, rail track and former sidings but these clearly form no part of CHT7726. They had previously stated CHT7726 to be their full ownership so this development seems confusing?
The interdict is referenced by Scotrail in official correspondence about the station closure and was also reported by the press at the time. This interdict was allegedly awarded by the court to Network Rail and served on the owners of CHT7726 to prevent them obstructing NR's access to the station. The couple have not denied this interdict despite repeated requests to clarify. Such an interdict would not be awarded if the Sheriff was not persuaded by evidence that NR hold valid rights of access which were being denied.
In short, NR have been seeking access through a gate and onto land neither of which form part of CHT7726 but, until assisted by BTP, have been denied by the owners of CTH7726 resulting in the forced closure of the station last November.
This is clear as day that the access track is not in the boundary of the Home Owners Title. If it was then the access track would be pick and within the red boundary line.
all that machinery is for more than building a footpath, more like a holding yard for all the timber growing in the north, prior to transport south by rail.
@@gabrielthejedicould you provide a link to the online plans I did wonder if the new rail logging terminal was to be sited anywhere near the property.and had a bearing on this story
@@chrisbutcher5179 my posts are getting deleted again!
@@chrisbutcher5179 railwayforums dot co do uk “No trains to call at Altnabreac for the foreseeable future” page 2 post 52. Click to expand and see the pics and plans.
The proposed new timber loading yard on the northern side of the track is well-known to enthusiasts. This development is good news for motorists, as it will eliminate the need for heavy trucks to haul logs on the roads. Rail fans will also be pleased, as it will help sustain rail operations.
The loading area appears to be situated in old rail yards, which will likely be accessed via the same road as before. Importantly, there will be no new level crossing for heavy traffic along the access to the passenger platform. We can confidently say there is very unlikely to be any connection to the current access dispute.
No posts are being deleted by this page, if any comments are being deleted then it's youtube doing it or complaints about the content of the post.
Thanks 👍
What difference does any of this make Network Rail closed the station they claim there's no option for it to reopen yet they insist on building a pedestrian pathway to the station encroaching onto somebody else's property to build said pedestrian pathway involving police in what is clearly a civil dispute, I ask anyone here leaving comments how would You feel or react to this if it was You living on that property? This is just more corporation bullying the little people and it's high time it stopped
Please provide proof that NR have said theres no option for it (the station) to reopen.
The couple have said they want the station to reopen. But wont allow any work to make that a reality.
Being as they rely on the station, its surely in their best interest in keeping the station open. When in reality keeping it closed would make much more financial sense to NR... 200-300 passengers a year wont pay for much.
The Altnabreac thread originally started with an examination of waste dumped on the station land or adjoining land, I'm not sure which. After a few videos the topic changed to the dispute with NR. I thought the topics were unrelated but details in a FOI request to NR in December 2023 have made me rethink the issue, there may be some dots here which need to be joined up. The Freedom of Information request concerned an agreement between NR and a former owner of Station House whereby he received 'a substantial quantity of scrap metal (railway track) and other used railway material from NR. NR refused to answer the request.
As I said to them before on their first video I watched about a couple of weeks ago, Network Rail must have some "Right of Way access" clause on their property to be going through the legal route immediately. Though what I can't understand is why this has not been shown by the Police to them since this information is easily obtainable, or are they editing those parts out and not showing us?
Also we really need our laws in the UK to start being written in clear plain English so it's easy to understand instead of longwinded legalese.
I agree with you. In 1992 I bought some land from British Rail to extend my garden. In the title deeds there are clauses granting British Rail and their successors in title access to and across the land in the event of such access being required to ensure the safety or maintenance of the railway.
As the house in question is The Old Station House I would assume the entire property was once owned by the railway so would have had similar clauses inserted at the time of sale
Also plans supplied by the Land Registry in England are indicative rather than definitive. I doubt things are different in Scotland.
As many others here and elsewhere have mentioned, it all comes down to a decision in the Land Courts surely. It seems that one of the biggest and fundamental problems arises because the site plan has no measurements, survey pegs or markers etc. included for guidance and definition. Surely land titles in Scotland should include such references and boundaries clearly defined, regardless of 'supplementary clauses ' that define the access rights of any interested parties? Perhaps there is a legal eagle or interested party here that has some knowledge of how a Surveyor can prove boundaries from the map included in the Title Documents we have seen?
@@tizme6105 Yes good points. Situation is further confused by the fact that an extension appears to have been built across the blue line on the map, which was a right of way.
@@tizme6105 I mentioned in earlier post that I had bought land from British Rail. What actually happened was several neighbours joined together and bought the land from the railway and then divided it between each other.
I drew lines on the original plan indicating how the land was to be divided and that was passed via our solicitor to the Land Registry. No surveyors were involved.
This evening I had a look at the plan our local council use and they have some lines in the wrong place. I don't know why.
The point I want to make is that Land Registry plans are used to indicate the ownership of a piece of land but they are not drawn to a scale which is accurate enough to resolve a boundary dispute, eg, if your neighbour put up a fence a little took far over.
@@philipcurrie5003 I have a block of rural land, surveyed off from the original farm, which has the original farmhouse on it. The plan shows the actual location of several Survey boundary marker pegs on the plan and with each change in boundary direction written in degrees and distance to the next point in meters. I know for a fact that some of the old farm boundary fences (many years old when I got here) on my block are not where they should be with one deer fence slicing at least a 1/4 acre off the neighboring farm. He is aware of this but not bothered. However if the County wants to expand their road width on 2 sides of my block then I would have to shift the old fences to accommodate that, but again not likely. Incidentally the Google earth overlay on my place is well out with one road in the creek bed etc - so "meters out of whack".
This couple may well find something similar with old fences and accesses put in convenient places many years ago rather than on legal boundaries; but until someone produces a fully marked up survey plan including the 2 accessways in dispute, this argument will never be resolved in Altnabreac, let alone by all the armchair lawyer's or conspiracy theorists with an axe to grind. The simple solution is to take it up with Land registrar once and for all so the trains can actually use the station as intended and then put the fences up where they are supposed to be so nobody need argue the toss in future.
18th September 2024 9am
@ALTNABREAC can you please show evidence of these cameras being on your land. Also have you an update you can share with us all, as I've had messages saying some have seen an update.... but others say there is no update. On my page.
Also i would like to take this opportunity to point out to you and everyone who is leaving comments on my page, that it is there responsibility to follow the rules of youtube just like it is mine.
So as you say there was a comment about your wife that you asked youtube to remove, I can only apologise for this but would ask you take a screen shot as proof of this as we did not see it, and i would ask anyone who is not happy with the comments that are left to complain using the proper chanel.
Thanks 👍
th-cam.com/video/JJ6q9vngTkA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=H-jAwzagAV9BQWUd
@networkrail
@britishtransportpolicebtp
@scotrail
@policescotland
@scottishparl
The property next to us on the Cadastral shows it owns the road. It doesn't. It's on the drawing but it's wrong. It also shows my other neighbour apparently owns their neighbours garden. Again they don't. If these folk had of moved to France they'd understand English mindset or law ain't valid, but they think UK law which doesn't exist or English law applies in the North of Scotland. They make claims I see no evidence of. I doubt NR have installed cameras in their garden. As if NR would do that.
No
@@alexthompson1982 the cameras are there to watch the plant, probably an insurance requirement of the hire company. If you leave tens of thousands of pounds of diggers / excavators in remote rural locations they have a habit of going missing! They will be trained on the plant and transmitting live images to a monitoring company. Where ever the plant is, the cameras will be so if they left the plant near the couples house, the cameras will have been there but not trained on the couples house, just the excavators etc.