I find it weird, I have stacked base dmg mod with other sources and have decent result overall than most redditors tell me otherwise
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@@crisschan2463 Many people believe in lie made by youtubers. "Diminishing returns" is huge misinformation in warframe community. Many of them believe adding any other base damage source hurt your damage performance (even if they use add GunCO). It's not optimal but as long you have more damage multipliers you are fine. As long math is math -> DR is just lie made by some youtubers.
If that's correct, how the hell do you explain going from 600 dmg to well over 100,000 dmg with a 2.6 multiplier? You're off by one order of magnitude at least. What did I miss? Like, I'm not a math guy, but I'm fairly confident that, when testing the additive testing gets you, say, 2000 dmg, a 2.6 multiplier won't even get you past 1,0000. Feel free to educate me. I'm willing to learn.
Really great to see those kind of videos going deeper into the calculation. Off topic question, at 0:50 what bonus did u choose on the three blue archon shards on your wisp?
Yep CO doesn't work on AOEs, iirc the description back then was +dmg on status effect. People were wondering why it didn't count on the explosions and thought it was a bug, but DE didn't intend to put it on AoE weapons to begin with (bramma meta back then lol)for reasons, and they changed it to +DIRECT dmg instead of +dmg. Very amazing explanation btw 👍 simple and easy to understand for players that need this.
3:09 You multiply percentages in a very confusing way. It would be clearer to say 360% * 1.55 * 1.6 because obviously your weapon doesn't deal 89280% damage, that'd be ridiculous. It's 892.8%
@@QuietDarkness27 yea thanks, i've done my research on warframe wiki now... i just assumed it worked like condition overload and the description of the mod confused me too... :D i thought its limited to +80% dmg when the target has 2 status effects and thats it
I'm trying to get a gimmicky Xata's Exergis build going (blast + electric), cause of infinite body punch through. It has Multiplicative CO, does that mean a base damage arcane would be better than the multishot/procs from Shotgun Vendetta?
@@Lesbean.Sprout because of the way xata's whisper works this is a really difficult question to answer. However with the new cannonade mods it might be a bit simpler now and vendetta might be the better solution in the end. Obviously this needs testing so trial and error is your best friend
Could you make a secondary weapon tierlist, and showcase some pistols for different purposes, or strong pistols in general like furis incarnon and vasto incarnon? Or maybe some lesser used stuff that we might not know about.
Is the melee elementalist mod better than condition overload. I am making a melee status focused build and don't know if i should sacrifice elementalist for condition so can someone please clarify.
Melee Elementalist - and this extends to Galvanized Elementalist - increases the Damage of the DoT Status effects (Slash, Heat, Elec, Toxin, Blast, etc) So you're probably better off keeping Condition Overload; Could also use the two mods together if the statuses you want to apply happen to be the DoT statuses
At the end when you say CO doesn't apply to explosive damage, do you mean the damage listed as "radial" in the arsenal screen? I thought that the Aeolak and Stahlta were some of the few weapons where it did actually apply to the AoE (or radial, or whatever it's called) damage.
gun co does not apply on AOE damage, but explosion direct hit you can direct aim to the body of enemy and explode it will count on gun co buff but if the explode is AOE and hit the other enemy those other enemy will not count as gun co buff
iirc the og melee CO was multiplicative with itself (base damage * (1.8^# of status effects)) = 583% dmg increase with 3 status effects for the health of the game it should never get un-nerfed, melee weapons are already op right now.
@@xanthacanthus Yep it was multi CO back then, and it was considered broken haha. Imagine they un-nerfed it on top of us already having melee influence... That'd go crazy
on Gauss you wanna stack duration duration and more duration, all his stuff scales off it. His 2 gives you very good damage reduction as long as you keep his meter up, so you'll want some health to supplement that if you're struggling with surviving.
So your sayin, Cannonade is more Dmg on multiCO weapons that can use it over Bane... How does Eclipse change this equation 🤔. Is there a point where eclipse makes Serration do more than Bane even? Trying to figure out good primary/secondary weapon loadouts to compliment my Eclipse Zephyr when she uses Contagion.
Eclipse scales better with bane than it does with serration/cannonade so no. If u wanted max damage against a faction you would need to use bane for sure
I don’t think most people consider GunCO a part of “One shot” builds, because priming is necessary which usually means that people are firing a secondary to prime defeating the concept of a “one shot” build. Also, “one shot” builds are usually not built with conditional mods like galvanized mods, because they usually require multiple shots/kills to proc. I could also be taking the term “one shot” literally. If it is not meant literally, please disregard my comment.
You must have known that literally last night I was watching your other how to build primaries video coz man. I'm MR 30 and I still struggle with taking down Demos on SP. It's tough out here if you're not a mathemagician. 💀 Would that there was a proper line on the stats screen that literally just said Additive or Multiplicative....
2:43
Its not * 160 but * 2.6 (1 + 0.8 + 0.8)
Base dmg bonus * gun CO bonus (yea there are other GunCO type buffs) * ...
regardless, the point of the video is to show serration is good on multiCO gun
@@WispGraxx don't worry, reddit and others will say "base dmg always bad".
Good video, simple and without shiting on base dmg mods.
I find it weird, I have stacked base dmg mod with other sources and have decent result overall than most redditors tell me otherwise
@@crisschan2463 Many people believe in lie made by youtubers. "Diminishing returns" is huge misinformation in warframe community. Many of them believe adding any other base damage source hurt your damage performance (even if they use add GunCO).
It's not optimal but as long you have more damage multipliers you are fine. As long math is math -> DR is just lie made by some youtubers.
If that's correct, how the hell do you explain going from 600 dmg to well over 100,000 dmg with a 2.6 multiplier? You're off by one order of magnitude at least. What did I miss?
Like, I'm not a math guy, but I'm fairly confident that, when testing the additive testing gets you, say, 2000 dmg, a 2.6 multiplier won't even get you past 1,0000.
Feel free to educate me. I'm willing to learn.
blud said "lemme pull out my calc 🤓"
It's slang for calculator
@@jacksonbesco7106no it’s not?
"blud" - 🤓👶🏻
@@10nesseefr lmao
Just started building my stahlta bc of you, its an insane weapon
CO is very cool and love the mechanic, especially if I get a Multi CO Weapon with 5000% rift torrent 🤩
surely -2.147b happens
Moug fell in love with the bakery frame
Really great to see those kind of videos going deeper into the calculation.
Off topic question, at 0:50 what bonus did u choose on the three blue archon shards on your wisp?
@@Twzzy armor
Yep CO doesn't work on AOEs, iirc the description back then was +dmg on status effect. People were wondering why it didn't count on the explosions and thought it was a bug, but DE didn't intend to put it on AoE weapons to begin with (bramma meta back then lol)for reasons, and they changed it to +DIRECT dmg instead of +dmg. Very amazing explanation btw 👍 simple and easy to understand for players that need this.
Perfect timing. Just picked up this mod.
Ever since I found your channel and your weapon guide I was suprised how much I was lied to by other warframe yters *cough* knightmareframe.
There’s A LOT of creators who do this.
edging to this rn tyvm for the vid bro :D
3:09 You multiply percentages in a very confusing way. It would be clearer to say 360% * 1.55 * 1.6 because obviously your weapon doesn't deal 89280% damage, that'd be ridiculous. It's 892.8%
congrats on 10k
im confused, so the same mod is additive on some primary weapons and multiplicative on other primary weapons?
@@filipmalicek4638 yep
General rule, is that hitscan weapons are additive, and projectile weapons are multiplicative. Remember doesn’t apply to AOE weapons.
@@QuietDarkness27 yea thanks, i've done my research on warframe wiki now... i just assumed it worked like condition overload
and the description of the mod confused me too... :D i thought its limited to +80% dmg when the target has 2 status effects and thats it
ok, what about beam weapons? Multiplicative as well?
@@QuietDarkness27
I need to test on the Bubonico, love that gun
Honestly i prefer when blood rush and CO were multiplicative it made rivens have so more value
TYVM for this vid Moug
good stuff as always
Would love to see a video on your Wisp fashion frame if you could make that happen?
I'm trying to get a gimmicky Xata's Exergis build going (blast + electric), cause of infinite body punch through. It has Multiplicative CO, does that mean a base damage arcane would be better than the multishot/procs from Shotgun Vendetta?
@@Lesbean.Sprout because of the way xata's whisper works this is a really difficult question to answer. However with the new cannonade mods it might be a bit simpler now and vendetta might be the better solution in the end. Obviously this needs testing so trial and error is your best friend
Wow I literally asked yesterday
Could you make a secondary weapon tierlist, and showcase some pistols for different purposes, or strong pistols in general like furis incarnon and vasto incarnon?
Or maybe some lesser used stuff that we might not know about.
I have made a top 10 secondaries video, most of the stuff still applies
@@WispGraxx thank you.
Ty for this!!
Is the melee elementalist mod better than condition overload.
I am making a melee status focused build and don't know if i should sacrifice elementalist for condition so can someone please clarify.
Melee Elementalist - and this extends to Galvanized Elementalist - increases the Damage of the DoT Status effects (Slash, Heat, Elec, Toxin, Blast, etc)
So you're probably better off keeping Condition Overload; Could also use the two mods together if the statuses you want to apply happen to be the DoT statuses
At the end when you say CO doesn't apply to explosive damage, do you mean the damage listed as "radial" in the arsenal screen?
I thought that the Aeolak and Stahlta were some of the few weapons where it did actually apply to the AoE (or radial, or whatever it's called) damage.
gun co does not apply on AOE damage, but explosion direct hit
you can direct aim to the body of enemy and explode it will count on gun co buff
but if the explode is AOE and hit the other enemy those other enemy will not count as gun co buff
Is there a chance we could see your wisp build
where is garuda guide?😩
I need that , we need that.
Pls some one tell me if boar is additive or multiplicative I don’t know if i look on the wrong videos and stuff but I can’t find it out
Why use % when you could use decimals to prevent confusion in your calculations?
To make it easier for people to understand. Not everyone knows math
Can you do a video pushing the astilla prime to the max please its my number 1 gun and ive pushed it as far as i can😅
They gotta unnerf blood rush, weeping wounds, CO etc
hell nah, melees are still strong af
iirc the og melee CO was multiplicative with itself (base damage * (1.8^# of status effects)) = 583% dmg increase with 3 status effects
for the health of the game it should never get un-nerfed, melee weapons are already op right now.
@@xanthacanthus Yep it was multi CO back then, and it was considered broken haha. Imagine they un-nerfed it on top of us already having melee influence... That'd go crazy
How do I mod gauss for stahlta build?
just unlocked steel path and I'm dying, stahlta 1shots all)
on Gauss you wanna stack duration duration and more duration, all his stuff scales off it. His 2 gives you very good damage reduction as long as you keep his meter up, so you'll want some health to supplement that if you're struggling with surviving.
So your sayin, Cannonade is more Dmg on multiCO weapons that can use it over Bane... How does Eclipse change this equation 🤔. Is there a point where eclipse makes Serration do more than Bane even? Trying to figure out good primary/secondary weapon loadouts to compliment my Eclipse Zephyr when she uses Contagion.
Eclipse scales better with bane than it does with serration/cannonade so no. If u wanted max damage against a faction you would need to use bane for sure
LESGO BOY
Do a red crit mesa build
how is it for one shot builds? do we need gunCO? (probably with primer, no?)
gunCO is the mod that has made our current meta
@@WispGraxx ok thanks, I probably need gunCO for my one shot builds
I don’t think most people consider GunCO a part of “One shot” builds, because priming is necessary which usually means that people are firing a secondary to prime defeating the concept of a “one shot” build. Also, “one shot” builds are usually not built with conditional mods like galvanized mods, because they usually require multiple shots/kills to proc.
I could also be taking the term “one shot” literally. If it is not meant literally, please disregard my comment.
the concept of "one shot build" is collective of stacks and switch to main dps to kill one shot or two shots
You must have known that literally last night I was watching your other how to build primaries video coz man. I'm MR 30 and I still struggle with taking down Demos on SP. It's tough out here if you're not a mathemagician. 💀
Would that there was a proper line on the stats screen that literally just said Additive or Multiplicative....
Ok but i need help getting CO.
Mouging rn
wow I needed a video for this
Getting jiggy with it
Hello tenno, What is the best Felarx build for the highest bosible damage on it, I want to make the strongest shotgun tho...
fr
Nice
Yay
Fr
WOULD X21
GIMME YOUR FASHION FRAME PLEASSSEEE
@@Ay-mar soon