Just a heads up. Some people are pointing out that Monsoon wasn't the only catalyst for Raiden developing/regressing to the Jack the Ripper persona. Obviously Sam was involved in softening Raiden up before Monsoon started pontificating, I didn't just fall asleep during the previous 5 minutes. My point wasn't to say that it was JUST Monsoon, hence why I call him "ONE of the major catalysts" and point out that Raiden gets "tipped over the edge" by him, not that Monsoon completely put him on the edge to begin with. My point was that for such a pivotal moment in Raiden's development, having the final nail be hammered in by some guy who just showed up, and a chuckle-fuck like Monsoon at that, felt underwhelming. peace
While I both own & rather like both of these games.....at the end of the day, which of these hero’s do you want to BE and or hang out with?🤔. Which on do you hell rather just look at on your screen than the other. Oh What? What’s that You Say......there are cooler looking versions of Dante lol where this is Arguably ( Albeit Poorly 😏 ) this is the best Looking version OF Raiden. Hmmm 🤔
If you watch closer Raiden wasn't talking to monsoon he was talking to himself and Sam. Sam roll his eyes at monsoon because Sam and raiden already had that conversation. That way you sould showed all of the conversation between Sam and Raiden. So monsoon wasn't the one that push Raiden to the Edge it was Sam when he show how Raiden ideology was flawed when Sam let Raiden hear what the cop he was killing was just normal people. You have to going back and replay and really play attention to what Sam was saying to Raiden when Sam was talking to Raiden on the screen in the city.
Still I wonder about his opinions on full blown those nerdy D&D-like RPG games from classical fallouts and elder scrolls to modern RPG games akin to Witcher 3 and few other examples
First half of this video: "Hey guys, DmC has better combat and level design than we give it credit for." Second half of this video: "Senator Armstrong is literally the most complex, metaphorical villain in the history of action games."
After i played both versions back to back in preparation for DMC5 (i played every Version of all the games too) i hardly can call DmC good at anything, for me is a trash game True and true
@@Wyzarka I think it's more of a matter of, Konami isn't gonna do that, and if they do, Kojima was pretty important in the development of MGR. Although I would be interested in what they could do with a sequel, seeing as that tech demo or whatever of MGR in the Fox Engine instead of it's own looked phenomenal
He talks about the insanely cool stuffs to it's story and (many) of the character's thematic and characterization of MGR in the latter half to explain MGR's majorly vast advantage over DmC, but then again it's unfortunate that we'll never going to have MGR2, probably not even latter ;-;/
Devil may cry: Devil May Cry, Tameem's first game to be written, and directed by him. It truly shatters the myth that video game stories are nothing but mere trite compared to film, theatre and literature
@@DemonDethchase Hard cut to Dante just slapping a can of energy drink out of a random dude's hands despite said action meaning nothing while also making the character just seem like even more of an unlikable douche.
If this is truly so - make an episode about The Senator. Guy was rocking 'Make America Great Again' long before Trump even showed up. Although Raiden fights and beats him, he never entirely manages to defeat Armstrong's values, his critique of the world - all epitomised in the statement: "Kindred spirits... You and I." The end of the game suggests that Raiden to a degree internalizes that which he opposes, and that Armstrong has the last laugh. Somewhat like Sokrates debates Kallikles and his value system, but does not manage to create a decisive victory.
Yeah it would be pretty cool for you to do something on this game or on some concept that you feel it gets right (or wrong). You've always had a unique view on things and I feel like even though I love this game too, you'd be able to point stuff out I hadn't really thought about it.
I feel that Revengence didn't get a true chance to spread its wings. Had the series continued we probably would have seen improved mechanics and better use of the combo system. Sadly Konami pulled the rug out from under it.
@Nero Redwood Who's saying it couldn't have been both? Snake quit war and smoking and got to go have some peaceful retirement with his boy pal and their unofficially adopted daughter, while Raiden got himself a new bio-organic body, found out he had a son and decided to be a family-man. All in all it's the most definitive end the series and the remaining cast of characters were ever gonna get. Like Brit already mentioned, Rising was more just a fun whatif-scenario for the prior franchise, rather than any kind of serious continuation.
@Nero Redwood I'm aware. Doesn't change the fact that it is still a spinoff-title and not really canon to the prior MGS-storyline. Or what did you think I meant with whatif-scenario? "until Konami said fuck you and canned it because MGS fanboys whined about it, then they made MGS5 a disappointment and boring attempt to make another prequel." Now where'd this description of events come from? Last I heard Platinum had been planning on a sequel to Rising, which seemingly just kind of wizzled out along with any other future idea for the franchise, as a result of Kojima's departure at the wake of MGS5 and the heads at Konami just not giving enough of a shit to greenlight it after that. "We were better off with Rising 2 if they actually gave a shit and stopped listening to the fanboys who cried about it." Are you seriously blaming the current state of the Metal Gear-franchise on the fans whining about Rising...?
@Nero Redwood I'm aware of that, just didn't like the idea of Raiden becoming a cyborg ninja again, after the ending of 4. I want MGS: Rising despite no chance of that happening.
DMC Devil May Cry: all the people who couldn’t healthily move on after 2020 and are blinded to the causes of the problems of 2020 MGS Revengeance: all the people who healthily moved on from 2020 and see who caused all the problems of 2020
DmC: Tries to be more gritty, grounded, and mature, ends up childish with a lack of self-awareness that borders on parody. MGR: Tries to bombastic and badass while occasionally quirky and weird, ends up with a somber, dark, and poignant message about human nature.
The opposite, actually. We all know DmC is a dumb shlocky mess of a story that relies too much on the surface-level reading of 'being Shakespearian,' but at its core, it's still a pretty well-designed action game that does a good job taking the formula set out by the previous games and iterating on it. It has its pitfalls for sure but it's still not being given enough credit for what it does right. Whereas MGR _appears_ to be a more competent and cheeky game that seems to have something to say, but in reality, it's just kind of a mediocre action game which really only throws big words arounds to sound smart without actually saying anything and in turn just kinda ends up indulging in its own edgy fantasies. Which isn't anything out of the ordinary for Platinum Games anyway.
@@Skallva can you please explain further? Cause you said it's those things, but why do you think that? Also please put in paragraphs. Reading a whole block of text without spaces makes me lose track on where I am
@@teneesh3376 Sorry for the late reply. So with DmC, I don't think there's much to be said that hasn't already been said in the vid. DmC is just a solid action game that isn't given enough credit due to its reboot status and infamously bad story. Not the best but not the worst by a longshot. Now with MGR, the issue is that it's a story that throws around big words and big ideas without any self-awareness to actually say anything in a meaningful way. It just flip-flops from one big speech about whatever to another, without trying to explore what any of these words mean. It's hard to take any of it seriously when the moment you meet a new boss, they immediately start waxing poetically about... stuff and then they die a gruesome death and their relevance ends right there. The worst offender is easily Armstrong. You see the dude _once_ through a camera recording before his fight and immediately before you fight him proper, he starts spewing out random politician slogans that don't actually imply any concrete ideology and simply come across as political vagueposting and then he's suddenly treated by the story as Raiden's ultimate foil? It's so dumb. And then there's Raiden's whole edgy persona, which is handled with the grace of a 14-years-old who's just watched Akame Ga Kill and thought it was the coolest thing ever. Surely there were other ways of writing his bloodlust other than 'killing is bad! > killing is based, actually!' Also there's human experiments. That happened. I know it tries to say something about cycles of war and violence, but the execution is so messy and in-your-face that all of it just ends up being really confusing to me. On the combat side of things - vid also mentions how kinda shallow the combat is, but I'll also add that the focus on parrying isn't doing it any favours. Not including so many mobility options for a simple timing minigame may feel cool at first but becomes pretty predictable quite quickly, especially since it doesn't offer any extra depth other than doing a perfect parry gives you a quick counterattack. The enemies are not fun to fight and the bosses are better, but they're not that much more impressive than in any other big character action game - they're fun enough fights, but it seems as though most of their praise comes from the spectacle associated with them than the fights themselves. Overall, MGR just feels very 'style over substance' to me. It has big boom and some neat boss themes but at its core, it's just a big edgy mess as far as I'm concerned.
Yeah, when it comes down to it, I think this mindset towards DmC was the main source of vitriol towards it. When I first took a gander at DmC, I hadn't been a DMC fan at the time, but when I finally got into the franchise and enjoyed the classic games, my ultimate view towards it was 'yeah, it certainly pales in comparison to 3 and 4, and I'll take classic Dante any day over Donte, but it's definitely no DMC2. I don't really get why everyone's so scathing towards it.' The thing is about me at the time was that I honest-to-god didn't think the reboot was the death of the franchise, nor did I think that Capcom was planning to just completely forget about the classic series in favor of the reboot. DMC4:SE coming out, as well as classic Dante appearing in Project X Zone, helped with this feeling as well. It was only when I got on the DMC5 hype train and realized that it had been more than a decade since the last classic DMC did I realize where all the hatred likely stemmed from. If the reboot really was the last DMC game we got that wasn't a rerelease, then between the game in general being a downgrade from 4 and the overall scorn addressed to the fans, it'd essentially be like DMC ending with a wet fart. This realization made me jump on the hate bandwagon for a bit as well. Now though, with 5 out as well as seeing how Ninja Theory was essentially forced into a shitty 'damned if you do, damned if you don't situation' (look up some recent videos on DmC's development for more info) I'm a lot more sympathetic towards it. I still prefer the classic series, but now, I can appreciate the reboot for what it did right and for what it contributed to the classic franchise.
Let's also not forget how much the writer was attacking the fanbase and news articles lying about why fans were upset; citing that the only reason old DMC fans hated DmC was simply because Dante had a different hair color and *nothing else.* They insisted there was absolutely no other reason why people were upset. I'll never forget that. Some things never change. This same crap happened with the likes of the GhostBusters reboot, Star Wars: The Last Jedi, and Captain Marvel (but with insisting old fans were just "misogynistic manbabies", when the female focus was never the point of contention in the first place).
@Lugbzurg Thank you! It really boggles my mind that DmC fans are telling DMC fans that "we should be ashamed of ourselves for hating the devs for taking the series in a new direction". It feels like DMC fans are the victims of bullying and we're forced to apologize to DmC despite that they love to take the beloved series away from us. DmC fans tried so hard during that era saying that the change in the franchise is necessary and "no one wants an anime cool dude, that's cringy". Lastly, the reason why we've got DMC5 is because of DmC's abysmal sales, if it was a success then DMC is gone for good. Let's hope that the DMC series can move forward with possible DMC5's DLCs and next years teaser for DMC6! None for DmC because it's a reboot, not an alternate universe but to wipe the series identity for a new one.
Overall I don't get how people can praise dumb dialogue from early RE games but DmC dialogue is apparantly cringy. You can't tell me the whole conversation with Succubus isn't the funniest thing ever. DmC is a gold mine of stupid one liners and more people should acknoledge that
@@sharavy6851 Who praises the dialogues from early RE games? If anything, a lot of people still make fun of them (mostly the first one). While DmC's dialogue is just plain horrible, focuses on trying to be 12-years-old perception of being cool instead of just being good. And if you mistaken RE games for DMC, then you probably also mistaken "cringy" with "cheesy".
@@Ziomaletto The whole boarder between cheesy and cringy is blurred as is. I just think some lines from DmC are memable just like in RE. It's not like I'm praising the writing or anything
@@sharavy6851 Personally, the only "meme" I know from RE is the Chrisposting thing, and it was only fans' creation. DmC have none memeable lines, and even if there are any, they're butchered by bad delievery.
You are completely ripping the monsoon scene out of context. It was sam who made raiden question everything that was currently going on and monsoon then added to it. It was not a 2 mins cutscene but like a 10+ mins experience the first time around.
it basically just happens because they remembered "hey, vergil was evil in the original right? lets make him evil ehre too, it'll be a great twist!" while forgetting how to actual do that reveal in a good way that doesn't seem dumb, as well as forgetting that there was more to vergil than 'evil' and that even his role as a villain wasn't even a twist in the original.
It's like you're having a casual conversation with someone you've known, then they mention that they're currently reading Mein Kampf, and you're like "Wait, what did you just say? about Mein Kampf?"
Man, I totally agree with this video. Revengeance has such great hype moments that make it such a memorable experience. Just so many quotable lines. Gosh I love Revengeance.
It’s also the best kind of edgy. Less “fuck you dad I wanna listen to punk rock while smoking pot” and more “I will rip your heart clean from you can crush it right in your face”
That scene where Mundus was on the phone to the president was like something out of a Neil Breen film. I was genuinely hoping for Dante to just come into frame saying 'isn't that corrupt?' Thinking about it a mod to swap Dante for Neil Breen, with dialogue adapted to suit, would be amazing.
Platinum actually wanted to include real-time weapon switching, but the systems at the time couldn't handle both that and the slicing mechanic, so they had to resort to the inventory system in order to keep the unique core idea the game was built around.
When I replayed Rising after completing DMC 5, I thought to myself "Why couldn't the gameplay be more in-depth like DMC?" Then I remembered how troubled MGR's production was and how it's a miracle it got completed in the first place. My heart aches whenever I think about this game, because I can easily envision how awesome of a franchise MGR could have been had Platinum games ever made a sequel. Like GamingBrit says, so many things could have been easily refined, and so much depth could have been added to the gameplay as well. Revengeance could have served as a strong foundation for the franchise to built something truly magnificent on top of. Did it really have to be this way?
Been seeing a ton of love for Revengeance all of a sudden lately. If there's anything Metal Gear related that should still be continued after Kojima has left the company, it's another Rising title.
Sadly platinum has revealed after their current work is done, they are planning to stop their gaming mercenary work to work on more in house titles IE More Bayonetta's and Vanquish-like titles. (Yay Less "Ok" activision titles (Yay Less MGR's and NieR automata's (Boo And if you think can make a MGR without Platinum ... well, I recon you dont think that
One thing Brit didn't mention was that MGR's PC port allows you to skip the dreary levels straight to the boss fights. Platinum knew... and thank God they did
The Chaotic Trickster Yup, it’s what sold me on buying on the PC port. The same is true with the Jetstream Sam and Bladewolf DLC, which are free, just like the console version.
@Munira Gheewala You have to beat the story mode and the DLC missions once, and then you'll see a 2nd row of missions in the Story -> Chapter menu that are just the boss fights (minus Bladewolf boss). Or you could just do what I did and input the Konami code (↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → ⓑ ⓐ start) at the title menu, assuming you have a gamepad. It'll unlock all difficulties, chapters, codec calls, and cutscenes.
Honestly not only did I somewhat assume 9-11 didn't actually happen in Metal Gear-universe, since we know its 2000s politics and history are different from the real world ones and I don't recall it ever being referenced before Rising, but also you'd kind of think that Liquid having Arsenal Gear steamroll through Manhattan in 2009 would have been seen as somewhat more referenced event anyways.
@@jondoe7036 You've got a good point but I imagine that the 911 was a lot more of a formative experience culturally than the attack that occurred 8 years later.
If I want something like DmC I would just rather play DMC 1, 3, 4 or 5. If I want something like Revengeance I play Revengeance. With DMC 5 now DmC DMC now has even less of a reason to exist for me. I can see how in a vacuum in your comparison DmC (using the definitive edition) might win out over Revengeance though.
Try Sekiro. It has a lot more in common with Revengeance in combat than you think, obviously bar the blade time gimmick. Bosses, even some more common enemies will not dissapoint you.
@@TheSchoolyD Sekiro is a even worse disappointment then MGR there are people even complaining about the difficulty in NG+ making the difficulty static was a huge mistake by FROM but honestly the disappointment has been consistent since Demon Souls in them I'm just waiting for Nioh 2 since the 1st was great.
@@Phanxify You're either a troll or a very specific kind of player. Actually, what did you want out of Revengeance and Sekiro that they both dissapointed you to such a degree? And what did you mean by static difficulty? That ng+ cycles have fixed increases in enemy damage, health etc?
Ikr man Devil May Cry 5 for me now the best fkn action game ever though I played in reboot 2013 and I liked combat honestly and bit in Devil May Cry 4 and fast dropped this game but Devil May Cry 5 the best game ever for me with such nice, different and deep combat
I've never played Metal Gear Rising, but just the clips of Armstrong arguing with Raiden is more compelling than any of the scenes in DmC. It makes me want to try it.
I still prefer Revengeance to DmC largely because having the hold down one of the triggers to use different weapons really screwed with my muscle memory and cramped up my hands. It's not always easy to remember which is your left and right in the heat of a battle.
On PC version you can toggle it. But I agree, that was the major flaw of the game for me to be honest. Other than that? I loved DmC quite a bit. It's pretty hard for me to decide which one I like more. Both are good in their own way.
While I do agree mechanically DmC is better than revengeance however if you had to ask me which game I would rather play I will always choose revengeance over DmC. Revengeance knows what it's about. it doesn't try to hit you with "Shakespearean storytelling" and doesn't take itself serious and doesn't have characters you don't give to shit about. And when it comes on the boss battles and music it trumps anyting DmC has. Is revengeance perfect? no could it have been better? hell yeah. But when I want to play the most hypest game with amazing soundtrack, amazing boss battle and interesting mechanics I'm going to choose revengeance any day of the week.
@@samuraireflection I mean when that happen I was more like "oh shit it's on now Jack is back baby!" Basically I was more hyped than emotional but hey whatever works for you.
Whoever made the scene at 28:30 is a genius. With the sun behind Raiden, the way that Armstrong is lying there makes him Rainden's shadow, which makes sense since Raiden embodies the ideology that Armstrong has.
I agree with most of your points about the combat itself, but I think you are missing the big picture. Revengeance is the first attempt of an action game in the Metal Gear franchise and DmC is just another iteration of an action franchise. DmC could inherit a lot more from the previous titles, unlike MGR:R, yet it came out as a mediocre Devil May Cry title. Revengeance is a good Metal Gear title and action game for what it is. It's not perfect, the combat could be more complex, but it's the first (and possibly the last :( ) of it's own series. It's not supposed to have Devil May Cry like combat.
Well the fact that Revengeance can hold his own against a action game of a established franchise speaks highly of it's quality, it's not something to complain about
@@samuraireflection check the combat in Bayonetta, its pretty similar and smooth like in MGR:R, bc they're both made by platinum games. All games made by platinum have that kind of combat. It's not suuuuper detailed and complex, but it's still amazing because it's satisfying as fuck
Mgr was developed by platinum tho and they are the best in the business and have a lot of experience. Not saying that mgr wasn't good, I like it a lot. I just don't agree with what you said.
ya see, you be complaining about raiden's switching on a dime randomly when it's been built upon since raiden's fight with sam on the train. then it fully started when raiden had to cut george and the doc guy in half and his jack the ripper persona came rearing it's ugly head. then when sam came back, he made raiden question if what he was doing was really justice when all the people who he had been fighting were forced to and couldn't relay their actual feeling because of the fear inhibiting nanomachines. then monsoon popped up and capitalized on it. i really think you under selled that plot point. and monsoon isn't just some awkward money-making merc. he wouldn't be trying to be philosophical if that's all he was. plus, there are lots of codec's that further explore the villain's backstory and while it might not be revolutionary, it's still there.
MGS vs DMC: Dawn of Vengeance - ACT III - Snake: You were never a Demon; You are never even a gunslinger. Dante: Save... EVA... Snake: Why did you say that name..? WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?!?!?!
I wish that Never Surrender was used as the main battle theme in DmC I think it's one of Combichrists best song's they have made I only remember it being used in the first level and in the ending credits which is a shame
They have similar names but they are both very different Lyrics and genre wise Never Surrender is more aggrotech industrual while Shall Never surrender is more metal I rememeber some of the lyrics from Never surrender too "Mental Cancer hijacks your brain" "Denying the reality you created for yourself" "I will suffer, I will burn, let hate prevail" "Enslave my soul but I'll never surrender" It's edgy but very good
CravenMariGold You mean we get to hear it every single time there’s a battle? Please no. It’s a good song of course but the variaty of songs they used was much better for me, and that’s one of the things that makes replaying the game fun. Don’t try to make DmC like DMC too much please.
I know it seems hard for some people to grasp, but a game can be of a certain genre WITHOUT being a carbon copy of the most popular game within that genre. Revengeance isn't even supposed to be another Bayonetta or Devil May Cry. The game isn't so much about doing insane combos, but more about slicing and dicing up enemies and disposing of them as quickly and efficient as possible. You don't even HAVE to fight a lot of enemies in MGR:R. You can just sneak of up on them and do a stealth kill. Or you can just toss some RP Grenades and make enemies lose sight of you, even in the middle of combat. Comparing MGR:R to basically any DMC game, while "complaining" about Raiden not having as many moves, is a little bit like complaining about Kratos not being as stylish as Bayonetta. Again, MGR:R isn't about trapping enemies in an endless combo. It's about efficiency. That's why, unlike with DMC/DmC, your total score in MGR:R is based mostly on time and not getting hit, instead of doing crazy combos. MGR:R was different. It wasn't just another Bayonetta/DMC clone and that's why I love that game so much. Sure, it has many flaws, but the core gameplay was most awesome and satisfying, imo. I can only imagine how cool this game would have been, if they had given it another year to fix some of it's problems. Also: To this very day, I still love the cringeworthy but catchy soundtrack of MGR:R. It's a guilty pleasure of mine.
Very agreed, MGR is definitely character action (or whatever you want to call it), but as far as I know it's the only example of what I would call a 'lite' game in the genre, at least one still worth playing. I do agree with a lot of TGB's statements about parts of the game being weak, but it's kind of only half-true: the half-baked stealth and item usage, while not implemented gracefully at all, only undermine the game from the perspective of being a pure CAG. It's important to consider MGR was in a difficult place of not only being rebuilt from the scraps of years of development hell in a short time, but as an extension of a series that had up to that point absolutely nothing in common with the core of the title, gameplay-wise. The stealth was doubtlessly included as a way to not completely alienate it from its origin and as a concession to get MGS fans unfamiliar with action games to give it a shot, same with the huge amount of codec conversations and the simpler combat. However, this has another effect of making MGR into what I consider the best entry point for someone looking to get into the genre. It may not replay as well, but it's certainly a spectacular first playthrough for people of all skill levels. I'm also surprised he didn't talk about the DLC at all; Sam was a much more traditional CAG experience and a significant enough amount of gameplay to at least be touched upon.
I think Ninja Gaiden 1 and 2 both do the “fast and efficient killer ninja” style of action gameplay better than MGR while still having a much better camera, better enemy design, and fully fleshed-out weapon move sets. Although Revengeance is still overall great and I like to think of it as the closest thing to a Ninja Gaiden 4.
Things I like about MGRR Rules of nature I'm my own master now Stains of time Only thing I know for real Nano Machines Son Gameplay Zandatsu Senator Armstrong Well basically everything.
To add on the reason people didn't like DmC is also because the creator insulting fans and saying the character they loved was LAME and GAY unlike his version of the character( yea never forget). I will admit even if i don't like it, it is the best combat game from Ninja Theory even if because they had to make something like the main DMC series. While Revengeance didn't have much time since changing teams and not much time, if it had then many faults would have be improved and been a much better game combat wise. I really enjoyed this look back video, I've seen some videos of people looking back at things which pissed people back then but looking back didn't FULLY deserve much hate. They still have problems and such, yet we can find some good or see it isn't AS bad as we thought
@@firmament1325 eh sure but i never cared for any of their past games since they were all pretty meh so there's also that against them for me. Even still i will admit, DmC is the best combat they done.
@@AkumetsuLord I actually really like Heavenly Sword, Enslaved and Senua. Their not my favourite games by any metric, but each of them is a solid mid-tier action-adventure title, which we don't get too much of in this day and age.
Iill put in my 2cents a step further. DMC DMC has the best melee combat system developed by a western game studio. Old God of War was pretty fun, but even on the hardest setting you can just parry your way through all 6 games on the hardest setting (only Ascension really tried to make the parry Harder) Batman Arkham fighting is fun, but repetitive in that it lacks an intuitive way to have fun boss fights, simply due to how structured it is around fighting tons of goons DMC DMC definately falls short in having "Zelda-eque" Easy peasy boss fights, but that was the game design issue not a combat system one, and I wouldn't mind if another studio ripped their combat off for other western action games.
>last video teased ninja gaiden >no ninja gaiden in this video >end of this video teases god of war so who wants to bet that the next video will be about Ratchet and Clank
I will say this Despite all its shortcomings DmC did make me a better canon DMC player. It unknowingly was like a beginner's guide to the game which made me better at handling mechanics when I went back to play 4 and eventually 5
It's completely different from main DMC, so it didn't do anything for me, but it made me better at Platinum Games games (not MGR, it's too different from the rest).
You can sum up the differences between these two games, imo, pretty simply: DMC was made to be different than the series and pander to a new audience while MGR is more "what if MGS was a character action game?" One was trying to be something different and "updated" while the other was trying new things while staying true to the style of the series. I'm not saying one game is better than the other as a game (though I do think MGR is better) but that one is more faithful than the other. DMC kind of felt like Ninja Theory delusionally thought they could make a better Devil May Cry game and MGR seems like Platnium loves all the weirdness of MGS games and wanted to mix in what makes their games great.
From what i heard, the people who made DmC actually had a passion to make this game, i heard this a while back from a comment section from possible a review or boss fight video.
Ikr finishing off this very fancy story of the Snakes with such glorious cyborg action is just awesome I love how I can put both MGR and MGS3 for example as the same universe lol
To each their own. For me looking at it as its own thing totally separate from the narrative package of Solid-series is the way I find it easiest to enjoy and least complicated way to digest Rising as a narrative. As would be continuation it doesn't really match the feel of MGS from where I'm standing. For example, it's supposedly just few odd years into the future and a lone cyborg dude can now just go around throwing Metal Gears into the air and chopping them up like styrofoam with a sword relative to a size of a toothpick next to them, which kinda undermines what big deal these giant nuclear mechas are supposed to be for the whole mainline series. Not to mention I don't feel there was much in the way Rising would have continued any storylines from the prior games, nor was that sort of continuation needed at that point, beyond the way it was used to add some flavour text onto some of the characters. Also I've never heard Kojima himself regard Rising as part of the mainline series; he has deliberately left it out, when discussing stuff like the timeline of the series and evolution of Metal Gears.
I love MGR but after playing all MGS games i just can't see it as canon. Plus in Ground Zeroes Jamais Vu mission Miller says Raiden is from another universe or timeline.
Hey Brit, How do you generally feel about Platinum Style Action, compared to Itsuno Style Action? This video could be expanded to a general comparison of the two styles. I feel that Platinum style tends to be more spectacular, but also kinda simpler, as a dodge button tends to be there and that combos are less complex, while Itsuno style is more grounded but gives you a TON to play with in terms of combos. I love both, what are your thoughts?
Both of them has their own strength to choose from. Platinum style is easy to get into and let you do many cool stuff even you aren't really good that much with action genre and hit you with memorable epic moments.(Suplex two f*cing metal gears! How anyone could forget that!) Itsuno's one is what real old school hack n slash be like. Focus on variety of deep gameplay and mechanic for player to experiment. The more you play the better you will become and reward you for being good. While DMC5 Nero stands between these two. With his kit that easy to get into but also let you become badass for master him. And Buster move that let you watch him does WWE moves to his enemies!!
"In DmC, positioning matters, like when you group enemies together for a big attack. While in Rising, there's not much of a reason to slam a guy into the ground or have them fall sideways when the combo ended" Annnndddddd in the exact footage while he's saying this, you're clearly seeing Raiden knock two enemies down at once with his sweep, something that the slam wouldn't do that gives the player a strategic advantage because they're able to take out two people at once instead of doing one and then having to worry about being interrupted before focusing on the other opponent. That aside, it also seems unbelievably unfair to compare DmC's full weapon arsenal to Raiden's standard sword without addressing anything else he has to experiment with... all while praising DmC's ability to experiment with combos......... Granted that you can't swap weapons on the fly in Rising, but the other weapons do completely change the flow of combat and when you take that into consideration, it kind-of completely undermines the entire point of this video from the ground up.
You just made my weekend. Revengance is one of my personal favorite action games. The ost, gameplay, and ridiculous story & characters are lightning in a bottle for me, despite its flaws (that you pointed out here).
Rising elevated an already established character to new heights and was a short but hype experience. DMC shitted on an already established character by trying to be edgy and was a discombobulating mess. Mechanically wise though, Rising is a little sloppy, while DMC maintains some of its addicting rhythm and mix-ups. I may sound VERY biased here. But honestly, besides some interesting concepts, DMC just irks me to no end....
And you still can fight both of the games in PlayStation All Stars. El Donte and Revengeance Raiden. They are actually included there because both Konami and Capcom wanted to promote their both upcoming hack and slash game.
Have to admit you have quite the insight I'm envious of. You not only have the ability to deconstruct subjects in both games but also compare them to each other and communicate your thoughts with your audience effectively. Part of me wonders how much time you spent on this piece. Did you replay both the games from start to finish just for accuracy? No doubt this must have taken weeks of preparation never mind the editing you had to do for the video alone. I think your efforts to introduce us to this subjects remain underappreciated. I'm looking forward for more of your future content.
I can agree with most of what you said. Critically speaking, the bottom line is much less simple than "DmC sucks, MGR is awesome". That said, I personally cannot stand the DmC combat system at all. While I understand the value of giving weapons and movesets options to contextualize combo setups, I find that this intrudes upon the spectacle you should be able to dish out in whichever flavour you want. DmC offers a lot of stuff, but fails to motivate you to use most of it since cheesing is excessively easy and efficient. And when you're supposed to use specific approaches, it immediately railroads you to that point and prohibits almost anything outside of the intended solution. You never really find your style, you find the best approach and then work it off, because free-flowing combos, despite being present, simply lack impact and crunch, and depending on your playstyle might even become disadvantageous asyou spend more time whacking the same mooks over and over again. With MGR, on the other hand, your actual options are simple: cut, block, parry. Dodging as a mechanic doesn't even exist outside of the Fade Slash, as the game simply intends you to stay engaged in combat. Meanwhile, executing specific combos has way less mechanical, but so much more personal payoff. You do what you want, so long as you don't forget the basics. And while there certainly are ways to cheese MGR, these methods are either not immediately available, or are safe plays, not optimized plays - because optimizing simply means being good at the combat. Sure, the lack of variety kinda sucks and makes the game feel repetitve outside of the boss fights, but in a sense, the regular opponents are more or less condensed mechanical training sessions, while the bosses are the exams that really put your shit to the test.
I began writing this exact comment. Repetitiveness is one thing, in fact it's the doom all games face eventually, but when something is straight up unstatisfying on a visceral level, than no amount of flash or "SADISTICS" are going to cover that up.
You're one of the few people who actually commented a very good point regarding the games being discussed. I totally agree, DmC is flawed in more than one way and forcing you into "Use this specific mechanic where you can only hurt a type enemy with" such as the colored enemies and the ones with shield/armor making most of your choices in weapons straight up useless.
@@firmament1325 Hey, my Dude! Ninja Gaiden 1 & 2 reign surpreme! 👍 For me it's gameplay and story. And Mgr is just a perfect package. The gameplay might be below DMC but it makes up for it with the best OST and an amazing over the top story
The waggling stick/ button mashing quick time events while being stun also has one major negative. It damages the controller so much. The analog stick on my switch pro controller is heavly damaged because of Bayonetta.
The flow of the combat encounters are better, and some stages in DmC drag like trash, also there's a mission where you're Forced to walk Kat through the base without any way to Speed It and i fucking despise that thing) i like the combat in DmC but everything Else game design wise breaks the game apart and the narrative is also hard to swalow since every curscene hide a loading screen for the shity Engine and skip It is like try to Skip a curscene in Bayo for PS3
@@petwisk2012 So basically you prefer MGR because of the narrative. Game design wise... DmC is better, from level design, to combat, platforming and combos.
@@Crok425 Not a game with deep combat mechanics? lol Clearly you actually never played MGR. Even if you did, you obviously never pull off any combo and just mashed the button.
If it were a completely different IP, with a better story and characters, it wouldn't be so notorious. Its unbearable narrative elements and inferior gameplay to the prior titles it is supposed to be succeeding are what drag it down so low. Unfortunate really.
What about the color coded enemies? They're not very fun to fight since they easily made the combat more tedious by only using the designated weapon on that enemy. It's really weird that DmC fans intentionally omitted that glaring flaw of the combat...
@@jamesvu5504 DMC games all have annoying characters like that. At this point im just used to dealing with the one or two unfun enemies in DMC games so im sure most of the fanbase are just used to it.
Honestly, I think this video is just more proof that DmC should've just been spun off into its own series like how Devil May Cry was spun off from Resident Evil or how God Hand was spun off from Resident Evil or how Darkstalkers got spun off from Street Fighter. It seemed like a business strategy that paid off for a while.
Coming from a huge MGR fan, I think what you said about the gameplay in how DmC does some things better is pretty valid. As much of a blast the gameplay in Rising, those little things do prevent from reaching it's full potential, which is a shame cause I really like using of the sub weapons and so on. It's really weird how considering this is a Metal Gear Spin off you think item switching and such would be just as easy, but no it just slows down the action. I don't really agree on what you said about both games Visually speaking. I'm not against color at all, but DmC's use of it is just obnoxious as it always feels like it has like 3 colors(Red,blue, or Orange) and nothing more, even if Limbo does admittingly look pretty cool. MGR's color is definitely pretty grey, but I don't find it ugly in how it's used and what it's apart of. Being a big fan of Yoji Shinkawa, I think Rising shows some of his best design work with the Mechs and cyborg designs. Raiden's new look honestly looks really cool and I personally like it about as much as his MGS 4 look. especially if it has his Visor shades on. What you said about Rising's story and how it presents some of itself is part of what makes me love the game as much as I do. While I wouldn't say it's even as good as dmc not by a long shot mechanically speaking. It's the combination of all those elements that it has that honestly really stroke a chord with me, which is a similar feeling I have for something like No More Heroes. It is a crying shame the Game will never get a followup probably, as the gameplay definitely leaves room for refinement and the way it ended could have lead to something really based.
The comment section just proves how stubborn people are. You can't even let someone give DmC its dues without trying to take it away. It's been eight years, will be nine soon. Relax already.
29:00 i would argue that point - as DMC² also showed you that there are demons that intend to do good and are unjustly treated by the same overlords. You can see this when you meet the demon Phineas and help him retrieve his eye.
goddamn, what a review. Amazing how you explained the gameplay in such an intricate way, then even went deeper by delving further into the story aspects.
Then don't think of it like that. :) I still think DMC3 is the best game of the series, but this game imo is almost as good as DMC5. It atleast has better level structure than 5, even when the combat isn't AS deep.
Both take their stories and premise seriously with a straight face. They just take a breather and add bits of humor. The difference is that MGR does it bit better, because the DmC reboot had a godawful script.
@@NihilisticIdealist Yeah people who think Revengeance is all tongue in cheek schlocky nonsense were not paying very much attention or just didn't resonate much with what it had to say. There are many serious moments in MGR. Every playthrough I've seen of the game people already have these pre-conceived notions of it and don't even give it a chance being dismissive of everything the game throws at you. You can have dumb humor and schlocky moments in an otherwise serious story. If you listen to dialogue and do codec calls the game is honestly pretty deep in a lot of places. I especially like how it explores memetics and war profiteering, those are it's strongest points probably but it also covers a wide breadth of interesting themes well like cyberization and humans need for some kind of conflict. It's honestly just a really good Metal Gear game despite not being stealth oriented it really has that spirit when it comes to the story and presentation.
@@SE_Lin It is pretty deep if you look at it with more attention, but it doesn't drag you away from fun to explore it's social commentary like DmC does. When you're fighting Armstrong you're both experiencing a great story payoff with brilliant writing and a great fun hype moment. It gets dark, but never too dark that it tries to shy away from being a game. Meanwhile DmC gives you a character that's basically prequels Anakin Skywalker in situations that you were supposed to be laughing at but aren't due to the awful writing, or in moments that it tries so fucking hard to seem woke that it comes off as really pathetic.
I guess the thing with MGRising is that while it does that itself seriously at moments, the main narrative have batshit insane things happening, while also framing them with some kind of "campyness", despite being meant to be take seriously. If you make a serious story with light hearted moments, you still wouldn't get the same feeling as MGRising, it's the framing and how the story sets expectations, you start with a bombastic opening, fighting a huge ass Mecha, the next level you fight a cyborg dog and the first thing Raiden asks him is the meaning of life, the next level begins with Mariachi and Ninja Turtles references, and THEN the game starts bringing more serious stuff at the forefront. DmC:dmc have a bunch of weird stuff happening, even in the beginning, but unlike MGRising, it's framed as being more serious.
@@kaiser4941 I agree completely. You're spot on about the Armstrong fight it's like a perfect synthesis of solid writing and payoff combined with hype hype hype in your face presentation. It's really something special, it doesn't shove it's philosophy down your throat it's there but it's mainly just concerned with you having fun with a really well designed and epic final battle and if you get a bit more out of it that's just icing on the cake. DmC just never even comes close to being anything like that for the reasons you described, it's overly tryhard trying to be this kind of "edgy cool" making it it hard to take the story seriously and the writing seems to lack a lot of self awareness. MGR knew it had good interesting themes and ideas behind it's gameplay, but it also understood that it was a kickass action title and most people just want to have fun with it. I wasn't ragging on people who don't think MGR has a deeper message to it, I can totally see why you'd be too distracted by all the mind boggling shit going on to even pay attention to the finer often hidden details. It took me multiple playthroughs to really appreciate it the way I do now.
Every single person who praise DmC Combat Mechanics deserve my respect. Seriously, I feel bad for people that despise DmC entirely just because Donte and it's edginess.
The monsoon cutscene is so memorable quotable and, in a way, charming, and the following boss fight is so hype that I think the over dramatic tone is very appropriate and fitting
When you thought Jack the Ripper scene was the coolest thing to see and the reason why you got the game... and it's my favorite boss fight in that game XD
This could apply to Bayonneta to some extent. I mean, at least most of the combos are samey enough across most weapon combinations. Punch-Kick-Punch, PPKP, etc. etc. But it's still little more than just beating the shit out of enemies, versus when Devil May Cry has the same basic inputs across all weapons there's actual nuances that set them apart from each other.
I've always preferred the movesets of games like Devil May Cry, Dante's Inferno, and Darksiders, where each and every move is distinct and deliberate over the much more massive flurry of nearly-identical moves in the likes of Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance and Beyonetta. Honestly, I'd really like to see some Dante's Inferno and Darksiders on this channel. Heck, even Sonic Unleashed or Lolipop Chainsaw would be pretty funny.
Theres nothing wrong with dial combos, tekken and darkstalkers proved that you can still have complex mechanics while having combos being similar to simon.
Just a heads up. Some people are pointing out that Monsoon wasn't the only catalyst for Raiden developing/regressing to the Jack the Ripper persona. Obviously Sam was involved in softening Raiden up before Monsoon started pontificating, I didn't just fall asleep during the previous 5 minutes. My point wasn't to say that it was JUST Monsoon, hence why I call him "ONE of the major catalysts" and point out that Raiden gets "tipped over the edge" by him, not that Monsoon completely put him on the edge to begin with. My point was that for such a pivotal moment in Raiden's development, having the final nail be hammered in by some guy who just showed up, and a chuckle-fuck like Monsoon at that, felt underwhelming.
peace
Chuckle-fuck is exactly the right description for Monsoon.
Devil may cry 5 is the best in its series, but DMC is by far superior.
@White-Van Helsing haha
While I both own & rather like both of these games.....at the end of the day, which of these hero’s do you want to BE and or hang out with?🤔. Which on do you hell rather just look at on your screen than the other. Oh What? What’s that You Say......there are cooler looking versions of Dante lol where this is Arguably ( Albeit Poorly 😏 ) this is the best Looking version OF Raiden. Hmmm 🤔
If you watch closer Raiden wasn't talking to monsoon he was talking to himself and Sam. Sam roll his eyes at monsoon because Sam and raiden already had that conversation. That way you sould showed all of the conversation between Sam and Raiden. So monsoon wasn't the one that push Raiden to the Edge it was Sam when he show how Raiden ideology was flawed when Sam let Raiden hear what the cop he was killing was just normal people. You have to going back and replay and really play attention to what Sam was saying to Raiden when Sam was talking to Raiden on the screen in the city.
The real question isn't DmC Vs MGR
No, the real question is
Sombrero Raiden Vs El Donte
Mission 20: Spanish Showdown
HAHAHA
Taco Demoníaco de Metal: La Reverganza
Sombrero Raiden FTW
MGC 996 Now that’s a death battle I’d want to see
"I want to do less action game stuff."
Makes DmC Vs Revengeance video.
Not that I'm complaining
He said “less” not “no more”
Still I wonder about his opinions on full blown those nerdy D&D-like RPG games from classical fallouts and elder scrolls to modern RPG games akin to Witcher 3 and few other examples
Ernas 343
Same. I really want to know his opinions on darksiders. Not sure if he likes it or not.
@@Z-A-C Which Darksiders? Each has a vastly different focus in its approach to what it does.
I’d like him to go over the 3D Mario games and elaborate on why he hates 3D world
First half of this video: "Hey guys, DmC has better combat and level design than we give it credit for."
Second half of this video: "Senator Armstrong is literally the most complex, metaphorical villain in the history of action games."
appealing to both fan bases ;)
He's hardly wrong about Armstrong though
Has better combat? Kinda yeah...
Better Level Design? Hell no
(The enemie Roster is trash as well)
Well yeah, as TBFP (rip) said, DmC is not a *bad* action game, it's just an *abysmal* Devil May Cry game.
After i played both versions back to back in preparation for DMC5 (i played every Version of all the games too) i hardly can call DmC good at anything, for me is a trash game True and true
Remember that time Ninja Theory was so embarrassed of Vergil's fedora that they patched it out of everything but credits cutscenes?
Meanwhile Raiden's just chilling out in his sombrero.
Nothing to fix though
@Vazazell not outrage, but mockery due to the Neckbeard/Nice Guy memes that kinda fit well into Reboot Virgil.
M'lady
*teleports behind you
hey, allow me to make a counter point.
MGR gave us Rules of Nature and "Nanomachines, son"
Also "Adios amigos"
Also "make America great again"
@@Liquid_Mike I've heard someone actually went and ripped Armstrong off on that one.
I very much agree with this political opinion
NinjaWita Sniper rules of nature was really good but my favourite was a stranger I remain
This is just going to make me sad that we're never gonna get Revengeance 2, isn't it?
We all thought DMC5 was not gonna happen. Maybe wait until 2024 for Revengeance 2?
@@Wyzarka I think it's more of a matter of, Konami isn't gonna do that, and if they do, Kojima was pretty important in the development of MGR. Although I would be interested in what they could do with a sequel, seeing as that tech demo or whatever of MGR in the Fox Engine instead of it's own looked phenomenal
@@GooSwanShitPosts Kojima wasn't THAT involved in Metal Gear Rising. He was in Metal Gear Solid Rising though
Konami has a special announcement on Tuesday for E3, so we'll see
Brother...Don’t remind me Lmao 💔
TGBS: *Slowly compares mechanics from both games to explain how technically DmC has its advantages over MGR*
Me: "But can you supplex a metal gear?"
He talks about the insanely cool stuffs to it's story and (many) of the character's thematic and characterization of MGR in the latter half to explain MGR's majorly vast advantage over DmC, but then again it's unfortunate that we'll never going to have MGR2, probably not even latter ;-;/
No, but you can yeet two and on the first one you cut the hell out of it while in the air
@@Linksays
And you cut the second one with its own giant sword
@@shalashaska6658 literally a duel lmao
The answer is NO, you can't suplex your deadbeat dad in MGR
However in DMC5, you can.
Revengence knew what it was, while dmc the other why trying so desperately hard to convince you how cool it was.
Devil may cry: Devil May Cry, Tameem's first game to be written, and directed by him. It truly shatters the myth that video game stories are nothing but mere trite compared to film, theatre and literature
They changed DmC massively after the poor reception of that IGN trailer. Had they kept their inicial plot and ideas, the game would be interesting.
@Wazenez that's sydney from payday 2
@@DemonDethchase
Hard cut to Dante just slapping a can of energy drink out of a random dude's hands despite said action meaning nothing while also making the character just seem like even more of an unlikable douche.
@@KellanGDM Agreeed mate
Wish there were more games like Revengeance, pure bat shit insane action.
Sun Levi You should try Vanquish
Wonderful 101 exists
There's a game called DmC that perfectly suits your description
@@junpeiiori4720 Really?? Holy shit people!
Sun Levi there is a dmc franchise thes even BETTER than revengence
Dante thankfully got another chance at greatness, but Raiden’s journey was cut short.
nice pun.
ImmaKakarot1 huh?
@@firerath Raiden's Journey was CUT short.
FucKonami.
Sacrifices have to be made. I will not shed a tear over Donte but i will over Raiden. I salute my favourite MechaMariachi RIP
I'm the world's biggest MGR fan, but your critiques were totally fair- and it's great to see a video talk about the things DmC did well. Great stuff!
Hey, never thought I would see you here. Love your videos
Eeeeeey
no no son, I AM the world biggest mgr fan
If this is truly so - make an episode about The Senator. Guy was rocking 'Make America Great Again' long before Trump even showed up. Although Raiden fights and beats him, he never entirely manages to defeat Armstrong's values, his critique of the world - all epitomised in the statement: "Kindred spirits... You and I." The end of the game suggests that Raiden to a degree internalizes that which he opposes, and that Armstrong has the last laugh. Somewhat like Sokrates debates Kallikles and his value system, but does not manage to create a decisive victory.
Yeah it would be pretty cool for you to do something on this game or on some concept that you feel it gets right (or wrong). You've always had a unique view on things and I feel like even though I love this game too, you'd be able to point stuff out I hadn't really thought about it.
I feel that Revengence didn't get a true chance to spread its wings. Had the series continued we probably would have seen improved mechanics and better use of the combo system. Sadly Konami pulled the rug out from under it.
It was salvaged in a year and a half. I still don't know how did Platinum did that much of the game in such a short time.
I like Revengeance, but far as I'm concerned, Raiden's story ended with MGS4.
@Nero Redwood Who's saying it couldn't have been both?
Snake quit war and smoking and got to go have some peaceful retirement with his boy pal and their unofficially adopted daughter, while Raiden got himself a new bio-organic body, found out he had a son and decided to be a family-man.
All in all it's the most definitive end the series and the remaining cast of characters were ever gonna get. Like Brit already mentioned, Rising was more just a fun whatif-scenario for the prior franchise, rather than any kind of serious continuation.
@Nero Redwood
I'm aware. Doesn't change the fact that it is still a spinoff-title and not really canon to the prior MGS-storyline. Or what did you think I meant with whatif-scenario?
"until Konami said fuck you and canned it because MGS fanboys whined about it, then they made MGS5 a disappointment and boring attempt to make another prequel."
Now where'd this description of events come from? Last I heard Platinum had been planning on a sequel to Rising, which seemingly just kind of wizzled out along with any other future idea for the franchise, as a result of Kojima's departure at the wake of MGS5 and the heads at Konami just not giving enough of a shit to greenlight it after that.
"We were better off with Rising 2 if they actually gave a shit and stopped listening to the fanboys who cried about it."
Are you seriously blaming the current state of the Metal Gear-franchise on the fans whining about Rising...?
@Nero Redwood I'm aware of that, just didn't like the idea of Raiden becoming a cyborg ninja again, after the ending of 4. I want MGS: Rising despite no chance of that happening.
MGR: deeper then the story presents itself
DmC: dumber then the story presents itself
DMC Devil May Cry: all the people who couldn’t healthily move on after 2020 and are blinded to the causes of the problems of 2020
MGS Revengeance: all the people who healthily moved on from 2020 and see who caused all the problems of 2020
DmC: Tries to be more gritty, grounded, and mature, ends up childish with a lack of self-awareness that borders on parody.
MGR: Tries to bombastic and badass while occasionally quirky and weird, ends up with a somber, dark, and poignant message about human nature.
The opposite, actually.
We all know DmC is a dumb shlocky mess of a story that relies too much on the surface-level reading of 'being Shakespearian,' but at its core, it's still a pretty well-designed action game that does a good job taking the formula set out by the previous games and iterating on it. It has its pitfalls for sure but it's still not being given enough credit for what it does right.
Whereas MGR _appears_ to be a more competent and cheeky game that seems to have something to say, but in reality, it's just kind of a mediocre action game which really only throws big words arounds to sound smart without actually saying anything and in turn just kinda ends up indulging in its own edgy fantasies. Which isn't anything out of the ordinary for Platinum Games anyway.
@@Skallva can you please explain further? Cause you said it's those things, but why do you think that? Also please put in paragraphs. Reading a whole block of text without spaces makes me lose track on where I am
@@teneesh3376
Sorry for the late reply.
So with DmC, I don't think there's much to be said that hasn't already been said in the vid. DmC is just a solid action game that isn't given enough credit due to its reboot status and infamously bad story. Not the best but not the worst by a longshot.
Now with MGR, the issue is that it's a story that throws around big words and big ideas without any self-awareness to actually say anything in a meaningful way. It just flip-flops from one big speech about whatever to another, without trying to explore what any of these words mean. It's hard to take any of it seriously when the moment you meet a new boss, they immediately start waxing poetically about... stuff and then they die a gruesome death and their relevance ends right there. The worst offender is easily Armstrong. You see the dude _once_ through a camera recording before his fight and immediately before you fight him proper, he starts spewing out random politician slogans that don't actually imply any concrete ideology and simply come across as political vagueposting and then he's suddenly treated by the story as Raiden's ultimate foil? It's so dumb.
And then there's Raiden's whole edgy persona, which is handled with the grace of a 14-years-old who's just watched Akame Ga Kill and thought it was the coolest thing ever. Surely there were other ways of writing his bloodlust other than 'killing is bad! > killing is based, actually!'
Also there's human experiments. That happened.
I know it tries to say something about cycles of war and violence, but the execution is so messy and in-your-face that all of it just ends up being really confusing to me.
On the combat side of things - vid also mentions how kinda shallow the combat is, but I'll also add that the focus on parrying isn't doing it any favours. Not including so many mobility options for a simple timing minigame may feel cool at first but becomes pretty predictable quite quickly, especially since it doesn't offer any extra depth other than doing a perfect parry gives you a quick counterattack. The enemies are not fun to fight and the bosses are better, but they're not that much more impressive than in any other big character action game - they're fun enough fights, but it seems as though most of their praise comes from the spectacle associated with them than the fights themselves.
Overall, MGR just feels very 'style over substance' to me. It has big boom and some neat boss themes but at its core, it's just a big edgy mess as far as I'm concerned.
The virgin DmC Mundus vs the Chad Senator Armstrong
There's this one particular scene in DmC Devil May Cry that proves Mundus isn't a virgin.
@@Brandon_Powell do you know what the virgin vs chad meme means?
@@matiasortega8478 I can't say I do. Every time I try to keep up with memes it makes me feel old.
@@Brandon_Powell the chad is the cool dude and the virgin is uncool dude.
@@shonklebonkle324 Why Chad though? Chad is one of the goofiest names I can think of.
People are being a whole lot more nice toward DmC now that we know it didn't kill the series XD
Its kinda sad that it took this long, i did the same thing but now i feel kinda bad XD
Yeah, when it comes down to it, I think this mindset towards DmC was the main source of vitriol towards it. When I first took a gander at DmC, I hadn't been a DMC fan at the time, but when I finally got into the franchise and enjoyed the classic games, my ultimate view towards it was 'yeah, it certainly pales in comparison to 3 and 4, and I'll take classic Dante any day over Donte, but it's definitely no DMC2. I don't really get why everyone's so scathing towards it.'
The thing is about me at the time was that I honest-to-god didn't think the reboot was the death of the franchise, nor did I think that Capcom was planning to just completely forget about the classic series in favor of the reboot. DMC4:SE coming out, as well as classic Dante appearing in Project X Zone, helped with this feeling as well. It was only when I got on the DMC5 hype train and realized that it had been more than a decade since the last classic DMC did I realize where all the hatred likely stemmed from. If the reboot really was the last DMC game we got that wasn't a rerelease, then between the game in general being a downgrade from 4 and the overall scorn addressed to the fans, it'd essentially be like DMC ending with a wet fart. This realization made me jump on the hate bandwagon for a bit as well.
Now though, with 5 out as well as seeing how Ninja Theory was essentially forced into a shitty 'damned if you do, damned if you don't situation' (look up some recent videos on DmC's development for more info) I'm a lot more sympathetic towards it. I still prefer the classic series, but now, I can appreciate the reboot for what it did right and for what it contributed to the classic franchise.
Let's also not forget how much the writer was attacking the fanbase and news articles lying about why fans were upset; citing that the only reason old DMC fans hated DmC was simply because Dante had a different hair color and *nothing else.* They insisted there was absolutely no other reason why people were upset. I'll never forget that. Some things never change. This same crap happened with the likes of the GhostBusters reboot, Star Wars: The Last Jedi, and Captain Marvel (but with insisting old fans were just "misogynistic manbabies", when the female focus was never the point of contention in the first place).
Seems like everybody still hates it to me.
@Lugbzurg Thank you! It really boggles my mind that DmC fans are telling DMC fans that "we should be ashamed of ourselves for hating the devs for taking the series in a new direction".
It feels like DMC fans are the victims of bullying and we're forced to apologize to DmC despite that they love to take the beloved series away from us.
DmC fans tried so hard during that era saying that the change in the franchise is necessary and "no one wants an anime cool dude, that's cringy".
Lastly, the reason why we've got DMC5 is because of DmC's abysmal sales, if it was a success then DMC is gone for good.
Let's hope that the DMC series can move forward with possible DMC5's DLCs and next years teaser for DMC6!
None for DmC because it's a reboot, not an alternate universe but to wipe the series identity for a new one.
Yeah, it’s really the boss fights and plot that turn MGR from an ok Action game to a Mastuhpiece.
Oh yeah, boss fights and all of it's presentations is the main gimmick of good to great Platinum Games in general
What about the fukin music
Sorry i just got triggered a little bit. bossfights, music, gameplay and MEMES the dna of the soul makes this game mastapiece
Oh fuck yeah, the music also makes the game a 11/10 mastuhpeece. And the memes
@@stealthmaster6472 don't get upset over being triggered man. MGR music does that to everyone, it's so fucking good it messes up with our senses.
PROTIP:
DmC's dialogue is 300x better in spanish
Donte
Overall I don't get how people can praise dumb dialogue from early RE games but DmC dialogue is apparantly cringy. You can't tell me the whole conversation with Succubus isn't the funniest thing ever. DmC is a gold mine of stupid one liners and more people should acknoledge that
@@sharavy6851 Who praises the dialogues from early RE games? If anything, a lot of people still make fun of them (mostly the first one).
While DmC's dialogue is just plain horrible, focuses on trying to be 12-years-old perception of being cool instead of just being good.
And if you mistaken RE games for DMC, then you probably also mistaken "cringy" with "cheesy".
@@Ziomaletto The whole boarder between cheesy and cringy is blurred as is. I just think some lines from DmC are memable just like in RE.
It's not like I'm praising the writing or anything
@@sharavy6851 Personally, the only "meme" I know from RE is the Chrisposting thing, and it was only fans' creation. DmC have none memeable lines, and even if there are any, they're butchered by bad delievery.
18:50 "You've knocked them down to size."
Missed opportunity, you should've said "CUT them down to size."
You are completely ripping the monsoon scene out of context. It was sam who made raiden question everything that was currently going on and monsoon then added to it. It was not a 2 mins cutscene but like a 10+ mins experience the first time around.
Thank you I was wondering what brit was thinking when he said that
Yeah, I remember we have like 10-15 minutes of gameplay where we killed the cops and heard all their voice inside Raiden head with Sam taunting
imhere forthepuns don’t forget, DmC didn’t have a lock on before it’s special edition
He spent so much time on this, too. I don't get it. Feels like SUCH a reach to rip the game on.
This is why I stopped watching this guy. This sort of stuff.
"My name is MEMEsoon. Of the MEMES of Destruction!"
T U R N. O F F. M Y. M E M E. I N H I B I T O R S!
"How about full of shit? Is that a meme"
"It's time for Jack to *FUCK YOU* "
Holy shit, this Is the top comment/response of the year
"Now there's a pretty meme, Exquisite!"
that DmC vergil reveal gets funnier every time I see it, it's so random.
it basically just happens because they remembered "hey, vergil was evil in the original right? lets make him evil ehre too, it'll be a great twist!" while forgetting how to actual do that reveal in a good way that doesn't seem dumb, as well as forgetting that there was more to vergil than 'evil' and that even his role as a villain wasn't even a twist in the original.
...wadidujusay ?
It's like you're having a casual conversation with someone you've known, then they mention that they're currently reading Mein Kampf, and you're like "Wait, what did you just say? about Mein Kampf?"
@@VoidLoader and then PlotTwist.mp3 starts playing
"There's another action title released after these two that you'd think would have a bigger profile than it does."
>*doesn't* show The Wonderful 101
Seconded. Maybe someday he'll get to it.
Matthewmatosis wants to know your location
Man, I totally agree with this video. Revengeance has such great hype moments that make it such a memorable experience. Just so many quotable lines. Gosh I love Revengeance.
NANOMACHINES SON
the M E M E S JACK
"I think it's time for Jack to let'er rip!"
Catches Sam’s sword
“ARMSTROOOOOOOONG!”
HA HA HA this is the greatest fight of my life!
I mean, at least Quentin Flynn is clearly having fun in that Jack the Ripper scene.
It’s also the best kind of edgy. Less “fuck you dad I wanna listen to punk rock while smoking pot” and more “I will rip your heart clean from you can crush it right in your face”
@@Mariodash23 "While making puns"
That scene where Mundus was on the phone to the president was like something out of a Neil Breen film.
I was genuinely hoping for Dante to just come into frame saying 'isn't that corrupt?'
Thinking about it a mod to swap Dante for Neil Breen, with dialogue adapted to suit, would be amazing.
Hey don’t diss Neil breen like that
A real human breen
and a real hero.
Platinum actually wanted to include real-time weapon switching, but the systems at the time couldn't handle both that and the slicing mechanic, so they had to resort to the inventory system in order to keep the unique core idea the game was built around.
I'm sure the PC could've handled it.
Brit talking about dmc
Here we go again.
Some things never change
Old habits die hard.
Patrick PFC *Brit talking about dmc
ahh shit here we go again
When I replayed Rising after completing DMC 5, I thought to myself "Why couldn't the gameplay be more in-depth like DMC?" Then I remembered how troubled MGR's production was and how it's a miracle it got completed in the first place.
My heart aches whenever I think about this game, because I can easily envision how awesome of a franchise MGR could have been had Platinum games ever made a sequel. Like GamingBrit says, so many things could have been easily refined, and so much depth could have been added to the gameplay as well. Revengeance could have served as a strong foundation for the franchise to built something truly magnificent on top of.
Did it really have to be this way?
Been seeing a ton of love for Revengeance all of a sudden lately. If there's anything Metal Gear related that should still be continued after Kojima has left the company, it's another Rising title.
oh my god yes!
Sadly platinum has revealed after their current work is done, they are planning to stop their gaming mercenary work to work on more in house titles
IE More Bayonetta's and Vanquish-like titles. (Yay
Less "Ok" activision titles (Yay
Less MGR's and NieR automata's (Boo
And if you think can make a MGR without Platinum ... well, I recon you dont think that
"...have their awkward cutscene moments."
>proceeds to show the best cutscene in the game
what did he mean by this?
that timeline when Dante was lame and raiden was cool
What do you mean? I still love raiden
@@saLym-ym7wu, turn off the game console right now.
Raiden is a goat
The Matrix's antivirus don't always work
@@silkworm2595 nani!?
MGRR should have been the DMC1 of another stylish character action franchise. Instead there's zero chance of us getting a sequel.
Agree. Snake story may have ended, but who said his world should be ended
One thing Brit didn't mention was that MGR's PC port allows you to skip the dreary levels straight to the boss fights.
Platinum knew... and thank God they did
Wait, what!?
Yeah tbh I haven't played through the levels that many times but have however fought all the bosesses 100s of times
The Chaotic Trickster Yup, it’s what sold me on buying on the PC port. The same is true with the Jetstream Sam and Bladewolf DLC, which are free, just like the console version.
@@TonicSpirits How do you skip to the boss fights?
@Munira Gheewala You have to beat the story mode and the DLC missions once, and then you'll see a 2nd row of missions in the Story -> Chapter menu that are just the boss fights (minus Bladewolf boss).
Or you could just do what I did and input the Konami code (↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → ⓑ ⓐ start) at the title menu, assuming you have a gamepad. It'll unlock all difficulties, chapters, codec calls, and cutscenes.
JUST LIKE THE GOOD OLD DAYS AFTER NINE ELEVEN!!!!
Honestly not only did I somewhat assume 9-11 didn't actually happen in Metal Gear-universe, since we know its 2000s politics and history are different from the real world ones and I don't recall it ever being referenced before Rising, but also you'd kind of think that Liquid having Arsenal Gear steamroll through Manhattan in 2009 would have been seen as somewhat more referenced event anyways.
@@jondoe7036 You've got a good point but I imagine that the 911 was a lot more of a formative experience culturally than the attack that occurred 8 years later.
@@jondoe7036 It happened and probably involved supervillains.
If I want something like DmC I would just rather play DMC 1, 3, 4 or 5. If I want something like Revengeance I play Revengeance. With DMC 5 now DmC DMC now has even less of a reason to exist for me.
I can see how in a vacuum in your comparison DmC (using the definitive edition) might win out over Revengeance though.
Try Sekiro. It has a lot more in common with Revengeance in combat than you think, obviously bar the blade time gimmick. Bosses, even some more common enemies will not dissapoint you.
@@TheSchoolyD Sekiro is a even worse disappointment then MGR there are people even complaining about the difficulty in NG+ making the difficulty static was a huge mistake by FROM but honestly the disappointment has been consistent since Demon Souls in them I'm just waiting for Nioh 2 since the 1st was great.
@@Phanxify You're either a troll or a very specific kind of player. Actually, what did you want out of Revengeance and Sekiro that they both dissapointed you to such a degree? And what did you mean by static difficulty? That ng+ cycles have fixed increases in enemy damage, health etc?
@@TheSchoolyD the game got much easier on new game + because you get to keep your stats and can get stronger
Ikr man Devil May Cry 5 for me now the best fkn action game ever though I played in reboot 2013 and I liked combat honestly and bit in Devil May Cry 4 and fast dropped this game but Devil May Cry 5 the best game ever for me with such nice, different and deep combat
I've never played Metal Gear Rising, but just the clips of Armstrong arguing with Raiden is more compelling than any of the scenes in DmC. It makes me want to try it.
Oh great, another gay cowboy shill
Virgil the Fetus Sniper and his hermano Donte
Vs
A Cyber pretty boy and his Dog
But DMC does not have nanomachines son!
But it has a bigger dick.
They *HARDEN* in response to physical stimulation
Did you know you can actually see Dante's cock in photo mode in 5?
But does MGR have Shakespearean writing?
I still prefer Revengeance to DmC largely because having the hold down one of the triggers to use different weapons really screwed with my muscle memory and cramped up my hands. It's not always easy to remember which is your left and right in the heat of a battle.
On PC version you can toggle it. But I agree, that was the major flaw of the game for me to be honest. Other than that? I loved DmC quite a bit. It's pretty hard for me to decide which one I like more. Both are good in their own way.
"Why was DMC so poorly received by the community?"
**implying GamingBrit himself didn't make videos shitting for 40 minutes straight on DmC**
While I do agree mechanically DmC is better than revengeance however if you had to ask me which game I would rather play I will always choose revengeance over DmC.
Revengeance knows what it's about. it doesn't try to hit you with "Shakespearean storytelling" and doesn't take itself serious and doesn't have characters you don't give to shit about. And when it comes on the boss battles and music it trumps anyting DmC has.
Is revengeance perfect? no could it have been better? hell yeah. But when I want to play the most hypest game with amazing soundtrack, amazing boss battle and interesting mechanics I'm going to choose revengeance any day of the week.
i disagree, reavengence hade me crying like a baby, when raiden gets the red health bar gauge, and that thing happens to him, so sad.
it was a real mans message, i have never been through that but im just saying.
@@samuraireflection I mean when that happen I was more like "oh shit it's on now Jack is back baby!"
Basically I was more hyped than emotional but hey whatever works for you.
he seems to forget DmC is not safe from the "shakespearean story" getting in the way of gameplay
Whoever made the scene at 28:30 is a genius. With the sun behind Raiden, the way that Armstrong is lying there makes him Rainden's shadow, which makes sense since Raiden embodies the ideology that Armstrong has.
I agree with most of your points about the combat itself, but I think you are missing the big picture. Revengeance is the first attempt of an action game in the Metal Gear franchise and DmC is just another iteration of an action franchise. DmC could inherit a lot more from the previous titles, unlike MGR:R, yet it came out as a mediocre Devil May Cry title. Revengeance is a good Metal Gear title and action game for what it is. It's not perfect, the combat could be more complex, but it's the first (and possibly the last :( ) of it's own series. It's not supposed to have Devil May Cry like combat.
but it did have dmc like combat, isnt that fascinating, thats a big and amazing difference!
Well the fact that Revengeance can hold his own against a action game of a established franchise speaks highly of it's quality, it's not something to complain about
Facts.
@@samuraireflection check the combat in Bayonetta, its pretty similar and smooth like in MGR:R, bc they're both made by platinum games. All games made by platinum have that kind of combat. It's not suuuuper detailed and complex, but it's still amazing because it's satisfying as fuck
Mgr was developed by platinum tho and they are the best in the business and have a lot of experience.
Not saying that mgr wasn't good, I like it a lot. I just don't agree with what you said.
ya see, you be complaining about raiden's switching on a dime randomly when it's been built upon since raiden's fight with sam on the train. then it fully started when raiden had to cut george and the doc guy in half and his jack the ripper persona came rearing it's ugly head. then when sam came back, he made raiden question if what he was doing was really justice when all the people who he had been fighting were forced to and couldn't relay their actual feeling because of the fear inhibiting nanomachines. then monsoon popped up and capitalized on it. i really think you under selled that plot point.
and monsoon isn't just some awkward money-making merc. he wouldn't be trying to be philosophical if that's all he was. plus, there are lots of codec's that further explore the villain's backstory and while it might not be revolutionary, it's still there.
MGS vs DMC: Dawn of Vengeance
- ACT III -
Snake: You were never a Demon; You are never even a gunslinger.
Dante: Save... EVA...
Snake: Why did you say that name..? WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?!?!?!
Dante: That was my mother
I wish that Never Surrender was used as the main battle theme in DmC I think it's one of Combichrists best song's they have made
I only remember it being used in the first level and in the ending credits which is a shame
They have similar names but they are both very different
Lyrics and genre wise
Never Surrender is more aggrotech industrual while Shall Never surrender is more metal
I rememeber some of the lyrics from Never surrender too
"Mental Cancer hijacks your brain"
"Denying the reality you created for yourself"
"I will suffer, I will burn, let hate prevail"
"Enslave my soul but I'll never surrender"
It's edgy but very good
CravenMariGold You mean we get to hear it every single time there’s a battle? Please no. It’s a good song of course but the variaty of songs they used was much better for me, and that’s one of the things that makes replaying the game fun. Don’t try to make DmC like DMC too much please.
k
Okay but let's be real. Raiden trying to be Mexican will always lose against the Mexican Dante mod
El Donte, the hero we need, but not the one Ninja Theory deserves
I know it seems hard for some people to grasp, but a game can be of a certain genre WITHOUT being a carbon copy of the most popular game within that genre.
Revengeance isn't even supposed to be another Bayonetta or Devil May Cry. The game isn't so much about doing insane combos, but more about slicing and dicing up enemies and disposing of them as quickly and efficient as possible. You don't even HAVE to fight a lot of enemies in MGR:R. You can just sneak of up on them and do a stealth kill. Or you can just toss some RP Grenades and make enemies lose sight of you, even in the middle of combat.
Comparing MGR:R to basically any DMC game, while "complaining" about Raiden not having as many moves, is a little bit like complaining about Kratos not being as stylish as Bayonetta. Again, MGR:R isn't about trapping enemies in an endless combo. It's about efficiency. That's why, unlike with DMC/DmC, your total score in MGR:R is based mostly on time and not getting hit, instead of doing crazy combos.
MGR:R was different. It wasn't just another Bayonetta/DMC clone and that's why I love that game so much.
Sure, it has many flaws, but the core gameplay was most awesome and satisfying, imo. I can only imagine how cool this game would have been, if they had given it another year to fix some of it's problems.
Also: To this very day, I still love the cringeworthy but catchy soundtrack of MGR:R. It's a guilty pleasure of mine.
Very agreed, MGR is definitely character action (or whatever you want to call it), but as far as I know it's the only example of what I would call a 'lite' game in the genre, at least one still worth playing. I do agree with a lot of TGB's statements about parts of the game being weak, but it's kind of only half-true: the half-baked stealth and item usage, while not implemented gracefully at all, only undermine the game from the perspective of being a pure CAG.
It's important to consider MGR was in a difficult place of not only being rebuilt from the scraps of years of development hell in a short time, but as an extension of a series that had up to that point absolutely nothing in common with the core of the title, gameplay-wise. The stealth was doubtlessly included as a way to not completely alienate it from its origin and as a concession to get MGS fans unfamiliar with action games to give it a shot, same with the huge amount of codec conversations and the simpler combat. However, this has another effect of making MGR into what I consider the best entry point for someone looking to get into the genre. It may not replay as well, but it's certainly a spectacular first playthrough for people of all skill levels.
I'm also surprised he didn't talk about the DLC at all; Sam was a much more traditional CAG experience and a significant enough amount of gameplay to at least be touched upon.
Oh come on. The soundtrack is amazing.
What the hell is cringeworthy with its soundtrack
I think Ninja Gaiden 1 and 2 both do the “fast and efficient killer ninja” style of action gameplay better than MGR while still having a much better camera, better enemy design, and fully fleshed-out weapon move sets. Although Revengeance is still overall great and I like to think of it as the closest thing to a Ninja Gaiden 4.
Yes. Also, apparently the budget for Revengeance was not as high as those of other popular action games.
Things I like about MGRR
Rules of nature
I'm my own master now
Stains of time
Only thing I know for real
Nano Machines Son
Gameplay
Zandatsu
Senator Armstrong
Well basically everything.
It has to be this way?
Collective Consciousness
A soul can't be cut
RED SUN OVER PARADISE
Blade Wolf is also awesome. "I understand your attempts at humor. I simply do not find them entertaining."
I just have one thing to say:
*_"Memes. The DNA of the soul."_*
To add on the reason people didn't like DmC is also because the creator insulting fans and saying the character they loved was LAME and GAY unlike his version of the character( yea never forget). I will admit even if i don't like it, it is the best combat game from Ninja Theory even if because they had to make something like the main DMC series. While Revengeance didn't have much time since changing teams and not much time, if it had then many faults would have be improved and been a much better game combat wise.
I really enjoyed this look back video, I've seen some videos of people looking back at things which pissed people back then but looking back didn't FULLY deserve much hate. They still have problems and such, yet we can find some good or see it isn't AS bad as we thought
@@firmament1325 eh sure but i never cared for any of their past games since they were all pretty meh so there's also that against them for me. Even still i will admit, DmC is the best combat they done.
@@AkumetsuLord I actually really like Heavenly Sword, Enslaved and Senua. Their not my favourite games by any metric, but each of them is a solid mid-tier action-adventure title, which we don't get too much of in this day and age.
@@jondoe7036 That's fine, those are your opinions and i respect that. There are things about Heavenly's Blade that are fine
Iill put in my 2cents a step further.
DMC DMC has the best melee combat system developed by a western game studio.
Old God of War was pretty fun, but even on the hardest setting you can just parry your way through all 6 games on the hardest setting (only Ascension really tried to make the parry Harder)
Batman Arkham fighting is fun, but repetitive in that it lacks an intuitive way to have fun boss fights, simply due to how structured it is around fighting tons of goons
DMC DMC definately falls short in having "Zelda-eque" Easy peasy boss fights, but that was the game design issue not a combat system one, and I wouldn't mind if another studio ripped their combat off for other western action games.
@@jondoe7036 Enslaved is a gem. Not exactly flawless, but there's something so charming and memorable about it. To me, at least.
>last video teased ninja gaiden
>no ninja gaiden in this video
>end of this video teases god of war
so who wants to bet that the next video will be about Ratchet and Clank
You're onto something.... don't know what but it's something
Blade mode cancel is where you really want to get into combos just like jc in dmc
I will say this
Despite all its shortcomings DmC did make me a better canon DMC player.
It unknowingly was like a beginner's guide to the game which made me better at handling mechanics when I went back to play 4 and eventually 5
It's completely different from main DMC, so it didn't do anything for me, but it made me better at Platinum Games games (not MGR, it's too different from the rest).
Metal Gear Rising: No contest.
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree.
It was never even a question honestly. MGR wiped the floor with DmC.
I miss jetstream Sam.
I still believe that he is still alive and his shit eating grin.
Meti not the bad guy, has a video about sam
You can sum up the differences between these two games, imo, pretty simply: DMC was made to be different than the series and pander to a new audience while MGR is more "what if MGS was a character action game?"
One was trying to be something different and "updated" while the other was trying new things while staying true to the style of the series. I'm not saying one game is better than the other as a game (though I do think MGR is better) but that one is more faithful than the other.
DMC kind of felt like Ninja Theory delusionally thought they could make a better Devil May Cry game and MGR seems like Platnium loves all the weirdness of MGS games and wanted to mix in what makes their games great.
From what i heard, the people who made DmC actually had a passion to make this game, i heard this a while back from a comment section from possible a review or boss fight video.
I think Revengeance is a better "accessible character action", DmC got tweaked with a ton of patches to make it more appealing to it's niche audience.
basically, MGR was good out the gate, while DMCDMC only got good after time passed and it was patched some more.
Rising is still canon to me, since it's after 4 chronologically, there's nothing to say it isn't.
Exactly
Ikr finishing off this very fancy story of the Snakes with such glorious cyborg action is just awesome
I love how I can put both MGR and MGS3 for example as the same universe lol
To each their own. For me looking at it as its own thing totally separate from the narrative package of Solid-series is the way I find it easiest to enjoy and least complicated way to digest Rising as a narrative. As would be continuation it doesn't really match the feel of MGS from where I'm standing.
For example, it's supposedly just few odd years into the future and a lone cyborg dude can now just go around throwing Metal Gears into the air and chopping them up like styrofoam with a sword relative to a size of a toothpick next to them, which kinda undermines what big deal these giant nuclear mechas are supposed to be for the whole mainline series.
Not to mention I don't feel there was much in the way Rising would have continued any storylines from the prior games, nor was that sort of continuation needed at that point, beyond the way it was used to add some flavour text onto some of the characters.
Also I've never heard Kojima himself regard Rising as part of the mainline series; he has deliberately left it out, when discussing stuff like the timeline of the series and evolution of Metal Gears.
I love MGR but after playing all MGS games i just can't see it as canon. Plus in Ground Zeroes Jamais Vu mission Miller says Raiden is from another universe or timeline.
metal gear rising was amazing! i loved it! 😊
I love how both theese guys were in all stars
Hey Brit,
How do you generally feel about Platinum Style Action, compared to Itsuno Style Action? This video could be expanded to a general comparison of the two styles.
I feel that Platinum style tends to be more spectacular, but also kinda simpler, as a dodge button tends to be there and that combos are less complex, while Itsuno style is more grounded but gives you a TON to play with in terms of combos.
I love both, what are your thoughts?
Both of them has their own strength to choose from. Platinum style is easy to get into and let you do many cool stuff even you aren't really good that much with action genre and hit you with memorable epic moments.(Suplex two f*cing metal gears! How anyone could forget that!)
Itsuno's one is what real old school hack n slash be like. Focus on variety of deep gameplay and mechanic for player to experiment. The more you play the better you will become and reward you for being good.
While DMC5 Nero stands between these two. With his kit that easy to get into but also let you become badass for master him. And Buster move that let you watch him does WWE moves to his enemies!!
"In DmC, positioning matters, like when you group enemies together for a big attack. While in Rising, there's not much of a reason to slam a guy into the ground or have them fall sideways when the combo ended"
Annnndddddd in the exact footage while he's saying this, you're clearly seeing Raiden knock two enemies down at once with his sweep, something that the slam wouldn't do that gives the player a strategic advantage because they're able to take out two people at once instead of doing one and then having to worry about being interrupted before focusing on the other opponent.
That aside, it also seems unbelievably unfair to compare DmC's full weapon arsenal to Raiden's standard sword without addressing anything else he has to experiment with... all while praising DmC's ability to experiment with combos......... Granted that you can't swap weapons on the fly in Rising, but the other weapons do completely change the flow of combat and when you take that into consideration, it kind-of completely undermines the entire point of this video from the ground up.
You just made my weekend. Revengance is one of my personal favorite action games. The ost, gameplay, and ridiculous story & characters are lightning in a bottle for me, despite its flaws (that you pointed out here).
Amen
Lightning in a Bolt perhaps? ;)
I feel like most of the people commenting didn't watched the video beforehand.
Rising elevated an already established character to new heights and was a short but hype experience. DMC shitted on an already established character by trying to be edgy and was a discombobulating mess.
Mechanically wise though, Rising is a little sloppy, while DMC maintains some of its addicting rhythm and mix-ups.
I may sound VERY biased here. But honestly, besides some interesting concepts, DMC just irks me to no end....
It's DmC, sorry, just to help you out that you're kind of confusing uninformed people on knowing which is which.
@@jamesvu5504 True. Thanks. Lol
@@tailedgates9 Happy to help. :)
And you still can fight both of the games in PlayStation All Stars.
El Donte and Revengeance Raiden.
They are actually included there because both Konami and Capcom wanted to promote their both upcoming hack and slash game.
Have to admit you have quite the insight I'm envious of. You not only have the ability to deconstruct subjects in both games but also compare them to each other and communicate your thoughts with your audience effectively.
Part of me wonders how much time you spent on this piece. Did you replay both the games from start to finish just for accuracy? No doubt this must have taken weeks of preparation never mind the editing you had to do for the video alone. I think your efforts to introduce us to this subjects remain underappreciated.
I'm looking forward for more of your future content.
You're trying to put off that Ninja Gaiden 3 video.
It was a patreon promise i think, So probably will happen this year
I can agree with most of what you said. Critically speaking, the bottom line is much less simple than "DmC sucks, MGR is awesome".
That said, I personally cannot stand the DmC combat system at all. While I understand the value of giving weapons and movesets options to contextualize combo setups, I find that this intrudes upon the spectacle you should be able to dish out in whichever flavour you want. DmC offers a lot of stuff, but fails to motivate you to use most of it since cheesing is excessively easy and efficient. And when you're supposed to use specific approaches, it immediately railroads you to that point and prohibits almost anything outside of the intended solution. You never really find your style, you find the best approach and then work it off, because free-flowing combos, despite being present, simply lack impact and crunch, and depending on your playstyle might even become disadvantageous asyou spend more time whacking the same mooks over and over again.
With MGR, on the other hand, your actual options are simple: cut, block, parry. Dodging as a mechanic doesn't even exist outside of the Fade Slash, as the game simply intends you to stay engaged in combat. Meanwhile, executing specific combos has way less mechanical, but so much more personal payoff. You do what you want, so long as you don't forget the basics. And while there certainly are ways to cheese MGR, these methods are either not immediately available, or are safe plays, not optimized plays - because optimizing simply means being good at the combat. Sure, the lack of variety kinda sucks and makes the game feel repetitve outside of the boss fights, but in a sense, the regular opponents are more or less condensed mechanical training sessions, while the bosses are the exams that really put your shit to the test.
I began writing this exact comment. Repetitiveness is one thing, in fact it's the doom all games face eventually, but when something is straight up unstatisfying on a visceral level, than no amount of flash or "SADISTICS" are going to cover that up.
You're one of the few people who actually commented a very good point regarding the games being discussed. I totally agree, DmC is flawed in more than one way and forcing you into "Use this specific mechanic where you can only hurt a type enemy with" such as the colored enemies and the ones with shield/armor making most of your choices in weapons straight up useless.
9 years after release these still hold up
I think if you compare the original DMC and not remaster to Rising, then the gameplay is more even. 60fps is everything to these types of games.
Metal Gear Rising > DMC
@@firmament1325 Hey, my Dude! Ninja Gaiden 1 & 2 reign surpreme! 👍 For me it's gameplay and story. And Mgr is just a perfect package. The gameplay might be below DMC but it makes up for it with the best OST and an amazing over the top story
Metal Gear Rising > all
@@omegazx7236 disagree. MGR=DMC 3 SE/4 SE/5.
@@user-sm6gn3nl6o DMC 5 comes really close, I'll give you that
DMC, including the reboot and even the second game > MGR
The waggling stick/ button mashing quick time events while being stun also has one major negative. It damages the controller so much. The analog stick on my switch pro controller is heavly damaged because of Bayonetta.
Damn rewatching this now makes me realize Charlie's been blueballsing us on that Ascension video for over a year now.
TheGaming "Not a Character Action Channel" BritShow.
MGR:R is better, i Don't Care what anyone says(also i want a Sequel to It)
I wouldn't say better since it's not a game with deep combat mechanics. At most the game hypes you due to the action.
The flow of the combat encounters are better, and some stages in DmC drag like trash, also there's a mission where you're Forced to walk Kat through the base without any way to Speed It and i fucking despise that thing) i like the combat in DmC but everything Else game design wise breaks the game apart and the narrative is also hard to swalow since every curscene hide a loading screen for the shity Engine and skip It is like try to Skip a curscene in Bayo for PS3
@@petwisk2012 So basically you prefer MGR because of the narrative. Game design wise... DmC is better, from level design, to combat, platforming and combos.
@@Crok425 Not a game with deep combat mechanics? lol Clearly you actually never played MGR. Even if you did, you obviously never pull off any combo and just mashed the button.
The only problem i've had with Rising was that it was too short :)
Honestly as much as I dislike DmC I've got to admit it's pretty refreshing to hear somewhat positive things about it's combat
If it were a completely different IP, with a better story and characters, it wouldn't be so notorious. Its unbearable narrative elements and inferior gameplay to the prior titles it is supposed to be succeeding are what drag it down so low. Unfortunate really.
I loved DmC visually, it had tons of style and it was generally fun. Though it made some terrible decisions.
The story is obnoxiously retarded but the combat is fine (if you avoid the PS3/Xbox360 release that is)
What about the color coded enemies? They're not very fun to fight since they easily made the combat more tedious by only using the designated weapon on that enemy. It's really weird that DmC fans intentionally omitted that glaring flaw of the combat...
@@jamesvu5504 DMC games all have annoying characters like that. At this point im just used to dealing with the one or two unfun enemies in DMC games so im sure most of the fanbase are just used to it.
Dmc:fight a walking ballsack girl mgrr:fight a buff man with nanomachines
Honestly, I think this video is just more proof that DmC should've just been spun off into its own series like how Devil May Cry was spun off from Resident Evil or how God Hand was spun off from Resident Evil or how Darkstalkers got spun off from Street Fighter. It seemed like a business strategy that paid off for a while.
Coming from a huge MGR fan, I think what you said about the gameplay in how DmC does some things better is pretty valid. As much of a blast the gameplay in Rising, those little things do prevent from reaching it's full potential, which is a shame cause I really like using of the sub weapons and so on. It's really weird how considering this is a Metal Gear Spin off you think item switching and such would be just as easy, but no it just slows down the action.
I don't really agree on what you said about both games Visually speaking. I'm not against color at all, but DmC's use of it is just obnoxious as it always feels like it has like 3 colors(Red,blue, or Orange) and nothing more, even if Limbo does admittingly look pretty cool. MGR's color is definitely pretty grey, but I don't find it ugly in how it's used and what it's apart of. Being a big fan of Yoji Shinkawa, I think Rising shows some of his best design work with the Mechs and cyborg designs. Raiden's new look honestly looks really cool and I personally like it about as much as his MGS 4 look. especially if it has his Visor shades on.
What you said about Rising's story and how it presents some of itself is part of what makes me love the game as much as I do. While I wouldn't say it's even as good as dmc not by a long shot mechanically speaking. It's the combination of all those elements that it has that honestly really stroke a chord with me, which is a similar feeling I have for something like No More Heroes.
It is a crying shame the Game will never get a followup probably, as the gameplay definitely leaves room for refinement and the way it ended could have lead to something really based.
25:55 It's like a comedy bit. I almost expect the "Curb Your Enthusiasm" theme to play after he says it.
The comment section just proves how stubborn people are. You can't even let someone give DmC its dues without trying to take it away. It's been eight years, will be nine soon. Relax already.
Fanboys will be fanboys.
Nobody :
Metal Gear Revengencr : "RULES OF NATURE !!!"
I remember getting MGR for my birthday. And Rules of Nature has been ingrained in my DNA ever since. Lol Best birthday gift ever. XD
MGR is probably one of the best hack n slash game I’ve played
Make a video on why Nero's grabs are fun to do while Kratos' gets boring and repetitive
29:00 i would argue that point - as DMC² also showed you that there are demons that intend to do good and are unjustly treated by the same overlords.
You can see this when you meet the demon Phineas and help him retrieve his eye.
goddamn, what a review. Amazing how you explained the gameplay in such an intricate way, then even went deeper by delving further into the story aspects.
Vergil: ah yes, the human world is now free from demons. We succeeded! Time to take control
Dante: 👁👄👁 W H A T
This is why I say DmC would be a perfectly serviceable action game if it wasn't supposed to be reboot.
Then don't think of it like that. :)
I still think DMC3 is the best game of the series, but this game imo is almost as good as DMC5. It atleast has better level structure than 5, even when the combat isn't AS deep.
@@SuperArppis DMC 5 >>> 3 (which is amazing nonetheless)
@@omegazx7236 no
DmC takes itself seriously while MGR didn't
Next
Both take their stories and premise seriously with a straight face. They just take a breather and add bits of humor. The difference is that MGR does it bit better, because the DmC reboot had a godawful script.
@@NihilisticIdealist Yeah people who think Revengeance is all tongue in cheek schlocky nonsense were not paying very much attention or just didn't resonate much with what it had to say. There are many serious moments in MGR. Every playthrough I've seen of the game people already have these pre-conceived notions of it and don't even give it a chance being dismissive of everything the game throws at you.
You can have dumb humor and schlocky moments in an otherwise serious story. If you listen to dialogue and do codec calls the game is honestly pretty deep in a lot of places. I especially like how it explores memetics and war profiteering, those are it's strongest points probably but it also covers a wide breadth of interesting themes well like cyberization and humans need for some kind of conflict. It's honestly just a really good Metal Gear game despite not being stealth oriented it really has that spirit when it comes to the story and presentation.
@@SE_Lin It is pretty deep if you look at it with more attention, but it doesn't drag you away from fun to explore it's social commentary like DmC does. When you're fighting Armstrong you're both experiencing a great story payoff with brilliant writing and a great fun hype moment. It gets dark, but never too dark that it tries to shy away from being a game.
Meanwhile DmC gives you a character that's basically prequels Anakin Skywalker in situations that you were supposed to be laughing at but aren't due to the awful writing, or in moments that it tries so fucking hard to seem woke that it comes off as really pathetic.
I guess the thing with MGRising is that while it does that itself seriously at moments, the main narrative have batshit insane things happening, while also framing them with some kind of "campyness", despite being meant to be take seriously.
If you make a serious story with light hearted moments, you still wouldn't get the same feeling as MGRising, it's the framing and how the story sets expectations, you start with a bombastic opening, fighting a huge ass Mecha, the next level you fight a cyborg dog and the first thing Raiden asks him is the meaning of life, the next level begins with Mariachi and Ninja Turtles references, and THEN the game starts bringing more serious stuff at the forefront.
DmC:dmc have a bunch of weird stuff happening, even in the beginning, but unlike MGRising, it's framed as being more serious.
@@kaiser4941 I agree completely. You're spot on about the Armstrong fight it's like a perfect synthesis of solid writing and payoff combined with hype hype hype in your face presentation.
It's really something special, it doesn't shove it's philosophy down your throat it's there but it's mainly just concerned with you having fun with a really well designed and epic final battle and if you get a bit more out of it that's just icing on the cake.
DmC just never even comes close to being anything like that for the reasons you described, it's overly tryhard trying to be this kind of "edgy cool" making it it hard to take the story seriously and the writing seems to lack a lot of self awareness. MGR knew it had good interesting themes and ideas behind it's gameplay, but it also understood that it was a kickass action title and most people just want to have fun with it.
I wasn't ragging on people who don't think MGR has a deeper message to it, I can totally see why you'd be too distracted by all the mind boggling shit going on to even pay attention to the finer often hidden details. It took me multiple playthroughs to really appreciate it the way I do now.
Every single person who praise DmC Combat Mechanics deserve my respect. Seriously, I feel bad for people that despise DmC entirely just because Donte and it's edginess.
One of the few EARNED “We’re the same.” moments.
that affront against Raidens new design will cost you a zandatsu
The monsoon cutscene is so memorable quotable and, in a way, charming, and the following boss fight is so hype that I think the over dramatic tone is very appropriate and fitting
The Special Edition of DMC made it feel a lot more like... well, DMC
When you thought Jack the Ripper scene was the coolest thing to see and the reason why you got the game... and it's my favorite boss fight in that game XD
WASH AWAY THE ANGER
DmC six years later looks like a very hard core action game in today’s last of us/god of war standard.
True. Thank goodness DMC 5 exists now. Things just feel right again in the gaming world, for me anyway.
Such a shame that such mediocre movie wannabes are treated as masterpieces
Devil May Cry 5 and Doom Eternal have come to put the kids to bed.
@@lugbzurg8987 fuck yes
Lugbzurg yes!
4 minutes in and I expect many of his criticism of MGR's combat can be applied to Nier Automata's, since it has some similarities to put into
This could apply to Bayonneta to some extent. I mean, at least most of the combos are samey enough across most weapon combinations. Punch-Kick-Punch, PPKP, etc. etc. But it's still little more than just beating the shit out of enemies, versus when Devil May Cry has the same basic inputs across all weapons there's actual nuances that set them apart from each other.
I've always preferred the movesets of games like Devil May Cry, Dante's Inferno, and Darksiders, where each and every move is distinct and deliberate over the much more massive flurry of nearly-identical moves in the likes of Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance and Beyonetta.
Honestly, I'd really like to see some Dante's Inferno and Darksiders on this channel. Heck, even Sonic Unleashed or Lolipop Chainsaw would be pretty funny.
Theres nothing wrong with dial combos, tekken and darkstalkers proved that you can still have complex mechanics while having combos being similar to simon.
It too has crappy camera that gets into the way of parries and action?!