What South Park (Almost) Got Right About Mutual Abuse
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 มิ.ย. 2024
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Recommended Reading:
No Visible Bruises: What We Don't Know About Domestic Violence Can Kill Us
by Rachel Louise Snyder
Audio Editing by Joey
South Park Art by Euralis Weekes
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@ToonrificTariq
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Sources:
www.thehotline.org/identify-a...
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www.domesticshelters.org/arti...
breakthesilencedv.org/reactiv...
www.blackburncenter.org/post/...
internetprincess.substack.com...
psychcentral.com/relationship...
www.thehotline.org/resources/...
www.attachmentproject.com/lov... - บันเทิง
Hello there, I see the Depp defenders have found this video (hello). I have covered and been discussing the Depp vs. Heard stuff since the start. I have made my opinions and position clear, as well as the reasons why I feel this way in the past. Every argument y'all have trying to turn her into some villain or flatten this situation has been debunked, explained, and exposed as misinformation. I'm sorry you got incorrectly presented this information by many places doing bad (or no) journalism, content, etc. I will link to a thread highlighting much of the misinformation. If anything, considering how people have been forced to realize they fall for (and play a role in) the mass downfall of female figures ten years down the line, I hope you take this not as a scolding but as an invitation to confront why we are so quick to believe things that are could be debunked, disproven, etc. if we actively tried to look deeper.
best~ P
Some resources
twitter.com/cocainecross/status/1665804744701661185?s=61&t=9ZVtrYh6YLWo--DaSxt49A
michaelhobbes.substack.com/p/the-bleak-spectacle-of-the-amber
As someone who has been in a similar relationship and suffered similar type of abuse, and also my partner was this extremely extroverted social and popular guy, while I'm this socially awkward introverted shy girl that has been struggling with depression and anxiety my whole life, thank you❤️ nobody believed me. He would constantly use my depression and anxiety against me to gaslight me and manipulate me. Whenever I disagreed with him or caught him lying or tried to establish a boundary he didn't like, I was in the wrong because I'm he crazy one and simply misunderstood everything. He would constantly force me into situations that he knew would trigger my anxiety and made sure there were enough spectators. He would push me until I snapped and all of his friends could see how crazy I am and what he has to deal with. Nobody ever believed me. By he end of the relationship I was completely broken and empty, an empty she'll. I've eblamed myself for years for not leaving him and being weak. The only proof I have is there every single person from back then that sees me now can see how vastly different person I am now that I'm away from him and how many things I was able to accomplish. Relationship like that are extremely complex and there is a lot of abuse going on from both sides. But it's very unfair to make a cut and start observing things only from the point when victim starts fighting back.
Being a freking heroin fiend, makes you an abuser by default, end of the story. We all love Depp, but he messed up. And, :( hmmm, do your selfie a favor, and don't engage Depp defenders. Most of them are rapey incels.
Thank you Princess Weekes 🫶
I have watched the entire livestreamed trial and the jury found her to be a liar, rightfully so. After SO MANY hours of seeing everything unfold and the lies she was telling, I don't understand how people can still disregard hard facts.
Thank you! I'm so tired of people throwing the same misinformation at me.
Another thing, the food Cartman is feeding to Heidi is fully implied to be breaking her dietary restrictions of veganism--- *he* writes the beyond onto that KFC bucket. So he's lying to her, manipulating her, and feeding her food she would otherwise not eat. So he's being even more of an abusive person in this instance. Like those people who "trick" vegetarians and vegans into eating meat, he's even more so breaking their already foundationally unstable trust.
I had a person at my job give another employee pork knowing he was a practicing Muslim. I was pissed I wanted to go to HR over it but he didn’t want me to.
It also demonstrates that if she were allergic to a food people aren't normally allergic to (or that he decided was a 'fake' allergy...), he'd trick her into eating it to 'prove' she's faking/it's not real and potentially hospitalizing or killing her.
that's gotta be the second worst instance I've heard of Cartman feeding someone something they would not otherwise eat
@@TheLANMACYou say that so vaguely as if the other example is a parent.
@@toyaJM That is utterly repulsive. People like that deserve a special place in hell - and I say that as an atheist!
important:" if you're friend is in an abusive dynamic, protect them with kindness not shame."
This is something I needed to hear fifteen years when the people in my life were more annoyed an angry at me for being in an abusive relationship because they saw it as my fault for dating him in the first place
Yes. “Johnny, you’ve got to get away from her. She severed your finger with a bottle and destroyed your reputation. your friends don’t think there’s any love left at the bottom of that mine.” you mean like that?
Until she lies and borrows money from you to give it to her abusive partner for drugs or whatever. I lost so much cash to them. At one point I was just tired. I think it depends on many factores.
@@followthewhiterabbit884 I mean I still think u ought not to shame or mock them? Like afaict she wasn't in her right mind, and shaming someone coming out of an abusive relationship is just gonna drive them back to that situation and cause more harm to them _and_ the people around them. I think of that all as similar to dynamics around addiction in a lot of ways actually
If you don't really have it in you to be there for someone who's hurt you that's _fully_ understandable and fair, but if you can despite all that it's worth it imo. And doing the opposite only causes more suffering for everyone involved
your*
As the child of a very messy divorce, the voyeurism surrounding Depp V. Heard grossed me out to no end...
I'm not a child of divorce and it creeped me out too. It was like everyone had to watch it
I didn't know about your parents mess divorce until you just broadcast it to an internet full of strangers, seems like you WANT people to know.
@@kayleighgrant4007there's a difference between a quick mention of relevant context and the way the Heard/Depp trial was treated like reality tv
@@kayleighgrant4007extremely dumb take.
@@kayleighgrant4007ohhh look a Depp fan using manipulation online !! what a surprise
Cartman does not want a girlfriend. He doesn't want relationships. He wants validation. He wants his opinions mirrored, not challenged.
So he is like a typical SJW , red pilled, twitter user TH-cam personality kind of person then “ please put more kind of people who lives in echo chamber in if you want this isn’t meant politically but more socially behavioral issues “ yeah that makes sense
Oh, god, I was married to an adult Cartman.
Christ, who resurrected SJW as a perjoritive label? Speaking of echo chambers. Lol
@justinwatson1510 Yeah that threw me off too 🧐🫤
@@bacht4799 imagine going as far as comparing cartman to sjws, just one of the crowds he hates most, just to wedge your personal opinions into a serious discussion
When I hear "mutual abuse" I think of media where a couple is severely mentally ill, or are depicted as a stereotype of addicts. Fictional couples who do nothing but lay around doing drugs and yelling at each other. I feel like this media portrayal has done nothing but reinforce the idea that abuse only happens to "bad" people or to people deserving of it. I can't help but think about how women in those depictions tend to be a caricature of the nagging, annoying wife. Like the writers of these show are thinking "well she's annoying so of course she's getting hit." which is also something I saw people saying about Amber.
As someone who has been in a household with a 'nagging' wife and 'annoyed' husband, I gotta say the nagging is the result of the negligence and likely past abuse by the husband. Maybe I'm projecting, but I've seen way too many times men doing horrific things and then trying to shush it by asking their partner to let the sleeping dogs lie. Any mention of those incidents makes them explosive and threatening. Their partner, constantly ignored on their justified concerns and issues, bottle it up and spill it out whenever they can, giving the outward appearance of a nagging annoying partner. The husband (usually) tolerates it to am amusing point and then hits back.
I've seen this pattern a lot in my countryside family. Idk how common it is in other places tho.
This one idea just messes me up so bad that outward appearances can be so wrong and making judgements just based on what a victim did as a sort of long term response to their abuse can be used against them while they are trying to get justice.
Well said
About why people insist that victims need to hold a personal responsibility- it's about personal hope. Everyone loves to say that they would know how to survive a zombie apocalypse, how to deal with xyz- the fact is that sometimes you don't know until you're in the situation, and it's hard to see the whole picture to judge when you're apart of it. "They should have left" = "I'd barricade myself in a Walmart"
Excellent comparison and I think you're spot on. Alot of dismissal of victims comes from fear of being one.
Always thought the same about why there are so many women who put "responsibility" on victims/survivors of sexual assault (not that there are more women who do that, but that naively you'd expect way less women to be like that).
It's easier to tell yourself you're doing everything to prevent yourself from becoming a victim. So you convince yourself it could never happen to you because otherwise you will be scared all your life.
But when it happens to someone else that fear comes back and it feels easier to tell yourself that they did something to cause it in some way. Something that you don't do, so you're still save.
It's not comfortable to confront the fact that, in many cases, we are powerless.
The thing about abusers is that they do things like love bombing you in between episodes of abuse, swearing they'll change, making you think you can't do or don't deserve to do better, don't start the abuse until you're tired to them in some way like marriage or a child, isolate you from support systems, control your communications... Everything is done with the goal of ensuring they have a continuous punching bag. Yeah, sometimes from the outside it looks so obvious, but often only in hindsight because they make themselves appear like a model partner to outside people, but from the inside it doesn't always immediately register as abuse, especially if it doesn't escalate to direct violence. I was married for 3 years to a man who would purposefully trigger my mental health issues so that when I lost my cool he could gaslight me and tell me I was crazy. He never hit me, but he would sometimes hit things that were in between us, often ensuring that his fist crossed through my field of vision, he would encourage me to do things that would benefit our financial situation but that I was ashamed about and then when angry he would shame me for those things... And yet, I didn't realize I had been abused until 3 years after we split up because I came out as trans. It took me the same amount of time that I had spent being abused to realize I was after it stopped. I thought I knew what abuse looked like because my father was physically abusive and my stepfather groomed me, but I couldn't put it together until I could look back at the entirety of the marriage and see it for what it was.
The thing is, it doesn't really matter what you do, right? Sure, you can take certain steps to make it less likely to happen, but it's literally impossible to foresee every scenario, especially since most SA is committed by someone you know and therefore have every reason to trust. The real issue is that, at the end of the day, the onus should not be on women to take every possible precaution available to avoid being SA'd, and whether you do or don't take any precaution, the only action that the SA would not have happened "but for," is THE PERSON SA'ING YOU. Leaving your drink on a table while you take a pool shot does not cause SA, neither does getting drunk with a guy friend, or even a stranger, not does walking through a less populous area at night to get home, nor does literally any other situation where you could take a precaution and lessen certain risks. A person choosing to SA you causes SA. If a person never chooses to SA you, then you will never get SA'ed no matter where you go, who you're with, how inebriated you are, etc. I'm of the mindset that the only person who has the right to apply any level of personal responsibility to someone for their own SA is that person, anyone else doing it is just victim-blaming, period.
i think part of the obsession with "personal responsibility" being involved is that if you accept that someone is fully a victim, and there was really nothing they could realistically have done to stop it themselves, the next step is to realize that it could happen to anyone, even to you, and that's a vulnerable and scary thing.
I think you see this a lot with disability, too. People need to think they can keep themselves safe.
Most of the time, victims don't entirely lack agency. Sometimes there are clear signs, indicators, and opportunities to exit volitile situations. There a reasons why they don't - often deeply complicated and sometimes "immoral".
The problem is to be "fully a victim". It doesn't work. Complex people produce complexity.
The part about Heidi and the girls really hits home for me. One of the times I left my abuser, I had gotten a new phone number and completely cut him off. Me and my friends had a "girl's night" briefly after, I was in a pretty fragile and vulnerable place, but I thought I was fine when my friends would make little jabs about the situation. My friends took it kinda far, made fun of him and of me throughout the night and I left feeling really stung.
I sat awake in my bed for hours, thinking about everything over and over and if I had done this or that. Then I picked up the phone and called him. I think it was out of insecurity or that sense of like misdirected pride that Heidi sort of has. I told him what happened and I won't ever forget what he told me, "thats what you get for telling people." I don't think I will ever forget how alone I felt in that moment, and that the only thing that would make it better was if I got back together with him and that he was the only one who would understand. It was like a perfect storm of emotions.
I don't have it in me to watch a video about this right now, but I wanted to say how much I appreciate princess's last video about this topic. There's a line in it, something like "the system is made to glorify dead women, not protect real life messy women" that I think about literally every time I see abuse irl or online now. So insanely true.
Thank you for highlighting this line, do you remember which video it was? That’s a thought I had after watching true crime content a lot. Even if the story is presented in a non sensationalized newsworthy way, people in the comments section were total pearl clutchers about women k*lling their abusers. “I would never do that!” or “no matter how abused someone is they should have never done that”. But if a different story had a dead abuse victim people would be “she’s an angel!” “I wished somebody could have helped”. In cases where the victim ended their abuser, they were desperate and had no way of getting out of the situation other than taking drastic measures. But nobody protected them during the abuse period.
@@Sofiaode18 Sure : ) It's in 'True Crime and the Theater of Safety' "The theater of justice, the theater of true crime, is to tell the stories of good clean dead women, not living, flawed, messy women, who still need help and grace. Those women are criminalized. Because if she can breathe she can lie."
::sitting here with an eye patch from his surgery today::
Jesus that's horrific to think about! Holy shit. Suddenly my eye hurts less with this quote rattling through my brain. What hurts the most, with this new perspective you've given me, is how true it is...this world really sucks a lot.
I hated everyone who obsessed over the heard vs depp case. Also everyone who was “team Depp” or had a hot take on the Petito case. It was all so gross.
Yeah. They just wanted to have a "socially acceptable" reason to be openly misogynistic. It was clear neither person in the relationship was a great person but the sudden redemption of Depp in the publics' eyes was really telling.
I think I’m terms of Depp it was the fact that all the blame was put on him and then he lost all his roles.. to then find out amber was also abusive. On the Petito case I don’t understand how anyone can see that case other than a poor woman that dated a awful dangerous man and unfortunately lost her life
@@jordinometry1589 I don't think there's any "also" about it.
@@Alec_Collins78what are you getting at?
@@jordinometry1589 I don't think Depp was abusive.
South Park is one of those interesting cases of a set of creatives that can get some much right, in such deep and interesting ways, from such weird, wrong angles.
I'm pretty sure they accidentally acknowledged that stochastic terrorism is a real thing in the episode Ginger Kids.
That's libertarians for you. A broken clock is right twice a day.
They can be very compassionate and ahead of their time (their Britney episode) and very backwards and ignorant (the Trans women in sports characters)
@@lefu87williford55 I think it is because they are the sort of libertarian that thinks everyone is making too big a deal of everything rather than the sort that thinks Neo-Cons were too socialist. (They are definitely not the sort of libertarians who are socialists.)
So I think it *mostly* comes from a well meaning place, but just often demonstrates how little they actually understand the subjects they are talking about. They often go hard on all the wrong stuff for all the wrong reasons in ways that doing a brief google search would prevent. But in other cases, when they actually do know a little, they usually come across as pretty compassionate and not-fascist.
They are just really deep in the "both sides are the same, this is all political theater" place that only privileged white Americans can be.
There is NO MORE BAFFLING of an issue than when people end up being RIGHT for the WRONG reasons. I think its like...finally made me understand how frustrated math teachers were when students didnt show work cause like....ok youre right but....they dont know how we did it ....kinda ironically funny to me
I always thought about how interesting it was that the person who first noticed that something was wrong and tried to help her out wasn’t her friends or family but was someone who knew the abuser, Kyle. He was the only one who saw the problem and tried to help her cause he knew. I wonder if that’s something that is common in real life especially if the abuser is super charismatic when friends and family are around
i think it depends on the person and whether they have any biases or witnessed anything firsthand.
I know that the people around my mother enabled her instead of helping us or holding her responsible. As an adult, I often warned people around her but her charms would work at first. Eventually they would see the truth. It's very surreal to feel like you are constantly being gaslighted by everyone around you.
It's so common, in my case it was his (no longer) friends who could see how I was being treated and helped me get out, he'd made them think i was crazy until they could see him wasn't and any time I did seem that way they could see it was reactive
Going through police process right now, it's a shit show but mental thay people who were his friends are helping me out of all that
Moral of the story: there's only one healthy couple in this show and it is tweek and craig
Tweek and craig were literally gaslit into being gay to make the town not sad
@@TheEnemyOfDawnwhich makes it more crazier that they end up being the most healthy relationship compared to the hot shit everyone else is.
@@pzzapartaybeing mutually unhappy in a relationship you're forced to be in and aren't comfortable with isn't really healthy
counterpoint: Big Gay Al and Mr.Slave
And they're still the healthiest 😅
i never called the police when my abuser assaulted me. 1) because the situation had reactive abuse in it, i knew the cops wouldnt take me seriously. 2) we were both queer. 3)they threatened to unalive themselves and told me that i would ruin their life if i did. thankfully, my friends and family didnt abandon me and distance themselves from me so It was much easier for me to walk away. that being said, if they ever abuse someone else and that person goes to the police, i will absolutely testify agains them. i truly hope they have changed. i know why they were abusive. they were once a victim. and its been almost a decade. but being abused by a parent and then a partner really fucks you up
Glad you survived your situation. Queer abuse is abuse.
I wish more people would talk about this. I didn't call the police when my abuser attacked me and smashed my phone...partly because well, he smashed my phone, but I didn't ask anyone for help because I still loved him. I was heartbroken more than anything else. People don't understand the hold a narcissist can have on you, how irrational it can make you. Everyone likes to think they'd always do the most logical thing in that situation.
Define "queer". I doubt you'll get it right...
You LGBTQ+ people should stop stealing words.
"Rainbow", "Gay", "Queer".
Stop it, please.
@@tylerbozinovski427THIS is what you're focused on? Culture war bullshit?
When I first watched the cartman/Heidi episodes,I had just left an abusive relationship and was shocked by how accurate it was. It also made me really sad,seeing abuse from a 3rd person perspective makes you realize how badly you were treated and how wrong it was. And it's a devastating realization,im not gonna lie. I cried for a long time
What makes the situation with Heidi and the girls even worse is that Kyle directly tells them what not to do and gives them a 100% credible tactic to help Heidi get through this so that she wouldn't double down and go back to Cartman, but he's completely ignored and shut down for presumably having a crush on Heidi. Even if this was later proven true, it doesn't discount the sad fact that Kyle was right. The girls did the exact thing Kyle told them not to do, and Heidi did the exact thing Kyle said would happen if they did it. Kyle really goes through the wringer for seasons 20 and 21 just for having an unpopular opinion, trying to be reasonable, wanting to help his family, and having basic empathy and it really sucked to see him constantly belittled, insulted, ignored, and bullied for his genuine concerns that were always proven right (minus the Canada part).
I wasn't surprised when Heidi began to be more mean and nasty towards the girls when she started to break down from Cartman's abuse by adopting his traits. I felt like it was subconsciously Heidi taking revenge on the girls who insulted her feelings and belittled her when she needed help. This obviously wasn't a good thing, but I felt like I understood why this was happening and it didn't stop me from sympathizing with Heidi and wanting her out of the relationship. I'm almost happy the show never touched on Heidi again after season 21 primarily because since we've seen her design return to how it was before, we can assume that Heidi has stayed as far away from Cartman's nonsense as possible.
Not just that she subconsciously was rebelling from another source of pain and shame in her friends, but by mirroring Carman she began believing that other women were lesser, and also that abuse tactics always land is isolating the victim for control. 3 layers to that and it’s wild.
In Season 26, Heidi never succumbs to the rising anti-semitism, even when Cupid Ye is literally brainwashing everyone in school.
The public discourse around this is why it took me so long to realise I was in an abusive relationship.
100%. Not this specific situation for me, but there are some really nasty and inaccurate ideas about abuse swirling around and they have been for a while now. Those misconceptions do the abusers work for them
I work in DV and there was so much wrong with the way people talked about the Depp vs Heard case. I kept trying to tell people I didn't care who they believed but I did care that people were always talking about what a victim would look like. Nvm you're doing a great job imma shut up and listen now lol
This got me too. I was always on Amber's side, though I left space for looking into Depps claims, except that turned into a circus, and the released documents of the full evidence proved he and his team were a bunch of manipulative liars.
HOWEVER, even IF people thought he was the victim, they were still grifting off of it. They were still making memes and jokes. They were still treating it as entertainment. And regardless of who was wrong, that's fucking weird to do if you actually give a shit about DV. I saw one pro-Depp page share a picture of him, with a line he said in court, "if she was really being abused, why didn't she leave?" Like he was so wise and enlightened for raising such an astute point. Without a single shred of self awareness. Gross and embarassing.
my GOD the "look at him he looks so sad look at his body language he's obviously a victim" stuff drove me nuts. I was like guys, he is an actor. he has spent 20-30 years at this point learning to tune his body and expressions to approximate whatever human emotion he chooses. then I got called man hater, Amber Heard fan (nope, don't like her either), misandrist, Feminazi etc. etc.
@@K.C-2049 Not to mention, the way people spoke about amber heards body language, how they took any nervous body language and twisted it to mean she was lying. People seem to forget that abuse victims, and anyone thats anxious can have body language that matches that of a liar but it doesnt mean they are lying by default.
I felt crazy telling people I didn’t think domestic violence shouldn’t be a tv show or aired at all on tv. I don’t know enough about either of them that isn’t sensationalized and likely false, I just think airing a domestic violence case is disgusting. People implying X or Y about heard from her body language like she’s a fictional character is disgusting and people still do it when it comes to the case.
@@lfsantacruz8703I’ll be honest I struggle to understand how anyone who looks through the details doesn’t see Depp as a clear cut abuser. It doesn’t matter if you like Heard as a person. I could care less if she’s unlikeable or egotistical or whatever people say. Who instigated? Who has a history of violent behaviour both documented and extensive hearsay? Who kept bending the truth in their favour? Who pursued a legal battle and chose a state to hold the case with a judge with poor DV support rates? It goes on and on. It’s so exhausting trying to reason against a media circus.
I had an abusive and manipulative parent. They loved weaponizing therapy speak to make it seem like I was the one hurting them. It’s difficult when it’s a partner but worse when it’s a parent. You can’t leave. You’re basically a prisoner and by the time you can legally be on your own, they’ve had 18 years to mess you up.
Having been in an abusive relationship I think there's a real lack of focus around covert forms of abuse. I suffered most of the things listed but they were always performed in a very sneaky covert manner. She might shame me in public but it would always be phrased in a way that gave her plausible deniability so I could never challenge her in the moment. If I did I looked oversensitive or unhinged. If I spoke to witnesses afterwards they'd always make excuses for her because she was so nice and they couldn't see it. And honestly I made the most excuses for her because I couldn't see it for years too. The problem is people always view these behaviours as being explicit and openly cruel and controlling when they can very much be done without that being obviously present.
My brother in law is in a similar situation, but because he’s an alcoholic, Everyone in our family believes his wife. She belittles him , starts physical fights until he relapses so she can take care of him. Not enough people understand that there are imperfect victims. I’m so sorry you were abused & I hope you find someone who values you.
@@ThunderTaker1215this is a very great point, because a lot of people demonize people with substance abuse disorders, but they are extremely vulnerable and easy to abuse
My abuser was like this and literally had my entire family on his side until the cracks started to show. They can't keep the facade up constantly, eventually they say the wrong thing.
It's called a dog whistle. Subtle jabs that only the victim can hear. I know how it feels for no one else to see it, when in your eyes it was so blatantly obvious.
Sounds like you've been through hell. This is the sort of thing that would drive me mad real quick. It's just so warped such people give you an abscess, fill it with pus and no one can see it. No healthy dignifying way to address and heal it... Just nightmarish.
this angle is honestly cathartic to see in fiction because when i was in an abusive relationship, the breaking point for me wasn't the emotional torment that my abuser put me through but the fact that i realized i was actively becoming a worse person for being with them, and seeing these ugly behaviors presenting in myself that i'd never had before -- behaviors i recognized as mirroring them. i'm so lucky that not only was i able to escape that situation but had the wherewithal to realize i have to work on myself to overcome the toxicity years of emotional abuse had instilled in me. media portrayals that refuse to budge from the 'perfect victim' narrative is painful to me because it makes me feel like something was wrong with me for not reacting to the abuse with fragile, tragic, beautiful, relentlessly kind-hearted despair.
Wow. I can relate to this comment so so much. I'm glad you were able to get out of your situation and reflect/heal.
I can also relate to this. That's when you know they completely taken you over and won, when you start turning into them. It was very scary for me and it was actually the thing that made me want to fight back and leave.
Yeah it’s kind of like a damsel in distress syndrome but not really . I think a lot of what we watch is specifically programmed without nuance of I HAVE TO SURVIVE , and I’d ideally like to survive while navigating a relationship that i still have hope in being able to change it . I don’t think there’s anything wrong with hoping that the person will change so just stay longer and longer . We shouldn’t be made to feel bad about that .
@@thoughtnot I love this comment. You're absolutely right and I have felt this exact way in my past relationship that was super emotionally abusive and a little bit physically. I turned into the person I loved and loathed because I wanted to hold it out thinking things would get better (specifically if he got sober from alcohol) but it took until I left the relationship to see I was mirroring all the things I hated about him as a survival mechanism.. crazy how the brain works. And you're 100% right about the lack of nuance... Couldn't have said it better myself.
@@moonchild2077 I’m exactly where you were RIGHT NOW (minus the alcohol), and yes they remove nuance on purpose and nuance is really just things ur not taking into account that are indeed playing a part
I was physically abused by my ex for years. When I finally broke up with her we got into a loud arguement and she called the cops and I was arrested for disorderly conduct. She then asked for a restraining order and lied on it and said I tried to kill her by beating her to death. I now have to take 6 months of domestic violence classes because I never wanted to admit I was being beaten by my girlfriend
This suchst. Toxic Masculinity really does hurt men in vulnerable positions so much 😢
Google the laws in your state, if it is a 1 party record state, record everything always. Sucks that happend brother
Hey you need to fight those charges to get them cleared or it look bad on your permanent record. Even if you don’t succeed if you can go down trying will start the wheels of change.
I believe you, and believe in you. Do not stop fighting.
This would be toxic feminimity misandrist. Since it’s the idea women are too dainty to be physically violent and that women wouldn’t lie about such things. He was punished for something he didn’t do without evidence while she goes Scott free. This isn’t about men. It’s about women.
on the Kyle, Eric Hedi front it's kinda ironic how Kyle almost see's his own abusive dynamic with Eric reflected back at him. to quote Kyle " Sometimes I feel like we're all going out with Cartmen." but he refuses to actually examine why hedi & eric bothers him and latches onto. Oh I must have a crush on hedi instead of digging deeper.
As someone who was married to a Cartman, Heidi shouldn't be the only one having boundaries. Cartman is abusive to everyone.
He treated Hiedi like he treated his mom now that I think about it.
Reading bell hooks whenever you laugh at a problematic South Park joke is peak omg
I was told I had "anger management issues" by someone who is emotionally abusive but is married into the family. It's nice to know I'm not (completely) insane.
Edit: I wish that folks would examine familial abuse the way we do IPV / abuse.
Remember most people are stupid, she could always just be a cunt. 🤷♂️ Simply having anger isn't an issue, screwing your life up because of anger is.
Anger can keep you warm, get you through a hike, the entire USMC is built on anger and they've been kicking ass for over 200 years
Thank you for explaining the highly dubious idea of "mutual abuse" - this phrase seems mainly to obfuscate the initial and primary pattern of control and violence in DV situations. I got real frustrated with this idea recurring in the TikTok-fuelled conspiratorial interpretations of the Heard/Depp trial. Even my relatively informed, left-wing friends fell for it and think they know better than experts.
The left collectively dropped the ball on the Depp v Heard case so hard. I think a lot of it came from the misguided idea that #MeToo had gone “too far”, and there was vague/misleading but convincing enough evidence to average people that Heard had instigated abuse towards Depp and therefore it was necessary to “overcorrect” for #MeToo.
It’s still infuriating that people fell for such bad-faith and ridiculous arguments though. Depp’s lawyers playbook isn’t particularly new, in fact it was textbook misogynistic smear campaign/victim blaming, but people heard a 45 minute audio clip of Amber admitting to hitting Depp a total of one time and that’s all it took for the narrative to flip for the majority of people. Genuinely demented.
The whole depp and heard case was such a perfect storm,, I remember growing up when they originally got divorced, she was smeared as a gold digger, and he was still widely loved, my teachers would say their opinions in such mysoginistic sneers. Over the years it was only tolerated by the public but they never really beleived Amber for one second, only a small minority of women did. Depp is americas sweetheart, no matter the history of violence or drug abuse or carelessness with finances. It’s much easier to hate a woman with no reason, even better to pin all of your same faults on her. The public didn’t do any further research because they wanted to believe that heard was evil all along since they got married tbh
@@ChikitewI am so confused. I wasn't a full Depp supporter at all but the evidence was there. I agree mutual abuse may have been happening but the Heard side didn't have evidence to support their claims.. I'm legitimately confused as to how people were misled exactly.
@@Chikitew It did not help that her Lawyers just did a genuinely worse job at advocating for her than they should have. The case was a media circus, and it seems like Depp's lawyers understood that better than Heard's did. A lot of what they did was seemingly targeted at the audience rather than just the Judge and Jury.
I do not know much about their overall case in specific, because it always depressed me too much to actually dig into the transcripts, but almost all of the clips I saw from the trial were just instances where her legal team sort of dropped the ball. Either in coaching her correctly for being on the stand or in cross. There was not really any smoking guns for her being the instigator of the abuse, and most of it could easily be interpreted as reactive abuse. (Which is not the victims fault.) Maybe there is more information that actually is a smoking gun of some sort buried deep, but that is not what most people are reacting to. They are reacting to the clips that are specifically designed and cut to make Heard look bad.
Obviously I can never go back in time and look into the room where all of it happened, but people have basically decided she is a literal demon-succubus thing, and that is clearly an absurd conclusion to jump to given the evidence I have seen. (And it just ignores the entire first trial that went way better for her.) It is overreaching to such a degree that I can only assume it is based in misogyny.
@@Caelinus Yeah, Heard’s lawyers were from smaller, local Virginia firms and Depp’s were lawyers from larger, international firms. I’m frustrated with the fact that Amber essentially got stuck with worse representation because her insurance companies didn’t feel the need to compensate for better attorneys. That being said, it truly should have been an open and shut case that the quality of the lawyers shouldn’t have mattered- Depp’s didn’t say anything profound, their questions to Amber could be downright ridiculous, such as Camille implying that Amber got her role in Aquaman because of Depp, and the case wasn’t about 90% of the stuff that got brought up in questioning. Categorically, Amber did not defame Depp in the op-ed whatsoever. His name was not mentioned, there was no specific allegation or action attributed to him, and his career had taken hits due to his own actions, not anything Amber said or did. Even an executive/representative from Disney said as much during the trial the Deppies all claim they watched. The only thing Depp had going for him was people’s general lack of understanding of the legal system and shoddy lawyer tactics.
This! I also get so frustrated when people don’t realize that you can be abused and be the abuser to someone else. My mom was absolutely groomed and abused by my dad, but she was also mine and my siblings abuser. She was unable to separate the two facts and any therapist I had growing up was not helpful and made me feel bad for how I felt.
It took a therapist who never was going to meet my mom that finally showed me that my pain was valid.
“Now there are 3 black kids on SP” ☠️☠️☠️😂
Haven't watched yet but, everyone can agree a cult is abusive even if they don't leave a mark on the person physically
I was bullied in middle school, never defended myself, and still got suspended for it. Also, from my teens to my mid-20s, I was a victim of abuse from my mom's bf. He got worse when my mom died. He was manipulative and physically abusive. He locked bathrooms and the fridge and got jealous once I founded someone. Which is odd do to. I am a dude and was with a woman. He accused her of the actions he did. I am now 38, and it has been ten years since I escaped it. I am slowly getting better at being my own person. Sadly, he damaged me so much that I fear trusting new people I meet. I have tried to commit to suicide many times, and sadly, only a few ever help me out. I am sorry for my rant.
Don't be sorry. Your voice is necessary and gives inspiration to others. Every voice counts.
I am so sorry so many people failed you. I too have suffered abuse various times throughout my life. Abuse within the family, school, etc. Abuse in general I feel is very overlooked and very common. People don't want to believe monsters in human form exist but they exist all around us
thank you for your rant.
What reason did they give for your suspension? That sounds so weird to me. Did they know you were getting bullied?
@@akilahposhnot OP but "zero tolerance" policies punish both students especially when one lies and you cant really prove you didnt hit the other person
@ranbummerz729 Yeah. Zero tolerance is bullshit when you got me looking like a bloody mess while the bully looked like nothing happened to him. What the principal saw it as both are guilty.
THANK YOU for defining abuse related terms. So many people misuse them that it can make it difficult to communicate
"Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men" (by Lundy Bancroft) is necessary reading for all women, all people dating, and all people in relationships, IMO. He doesn't just cite interviews with abusive men, he also follows up with their past and current partners, to see if the actions conform to the words; they very often do not.
Abusive or controlling partners will often put on a mask, at the beginning. They'll essentially love bomb you for your attention, so you feel like that's their baseline.
Then they'll likely start making comments about not liking your friends and your family. Anyone else you can confide in. They'll slowly isolate you from those people, sometimes even making ultimatums. Or unilaterally decide to move, to make contact harder.
They'll blame you for "making" them angry, and, since you have few or no rational voices telling you that you're not at fault, you will start to doubt yourself. You'll walk on eggshells in an attempt to not "set them off." It won't always work.
They will demean you. Make you believe you're not deserving of love, and they are your only option. You won't find better, because it's your fault they've "changed."
Very infrequently, if you're lucky, they will love bomb you, again. Make you feel like they're back to their "old" self (really, they're just putting that mask back on, so you don't leave). They might apologize, make promises that they'll never blow up, again, or whatever. This never lasts.
If you've ever been in a relationship that was even vaguely like this, please read the book. You can download the pdf, change the title, and password protect it, so your partner won't know.
Please know that you deserve infinitely better. Start to plan your exit. Start putting money away. Pack a "go bag." Privately contact an organization that can help you move.
And, if a partner ever strangles you, non-consensually, know that you have a 25% chance to die at their hands, in the future. Please, please get away from them, however you can. You are worthy of love, and this ain't that.
You do not have to be "the perfect victim" to deserve help. Nobody who works with domestic abuse survivors expects that.
Except if you're a man. Then you made her abuse you. Got it.
That book is so stupid. "All abusers are male" and the notion that abusers are a specific "type" of person, like some alien creature that needs to be dissected to be understood.
It astonishes me that anyone sees the relationship between Heidi and Cartman as anything other than a tragedy.
Heidi was a lovely girl who did everything she could to make an abusive relationship back into something that had once been wholesome.
Instead of fixing a bad person, she was corrupted, fed meat that made her horribly sick, and turned into everything she hated. I could only see it as satisfying when she directed all that vitriol towards Cartman.
But of course, I felt so bad for her, the constant abuse and manipulaton gave her nowhere to go but down until she reached a breaking point that thankfully allowed her to escape the spiral despite everything.
It astonishes me that people empathize with South Park characters.
Like they don't even try to get you to do that. They're not made to resemble real people
Deppies are unhinged. I briefly mentioned the word trial in a tweet bc I was worried about how DV Victims would be viewed after this case and I was vague. I got harassed for hours.
good
"Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men" is a fantastic examination of abuse dynamics and the psychology of abusers from the director of one of the first therapeutic programs for men who abuse.
The author's primary reason for running the program is to support the women, so while the therapeutic aspects focus on the men, the program includes support from the women and provides them with insight into their partner's abusive tactics. This really helps them start to penetrate the fog and confusion abuse creates.
He also does not believe mutual abuse exists. He sees the perpetuation of the mutual abuse narrative as the result of therapists, courts, and the general public basically being deceived by abusers, and not understanding the dynamics of abuse.
So, men are responsible for the actions of violent women, especially if they're the target of her violence. Got it.
People were obsessed with the Depp vs Heard for MONTHS. You couldn't go to any social media platform without being plastered with reaction videos, edits of Amber, countless posts and reply sections... Two weeks ago we found out several people from the industry, including Leonardo DiCaprio, went to a ped0 island. And now everyone just... forgot
The Idea of mutual abuse is incompatible with the way abusive individuals work. Abusers actually get bored pretty quickly if they cannot get the upper hand over a person, at which point they will just move on to a different victim. This means that two equally matched abusers would lose interest in each other pretty quickly. The relationship would be like an explosion: Loud, Destructive, and eye catching but ultimately extremely short lived. They would basically have a massive furious battle to try to gain the upperhand over each other but when neither of them actually ends up "winning" they would just lose interest.
I recall having not looked much into Depp vs Heard because I wasn’t very interested, but I remember off jump thinking it was weird. Like A it was very obviously a lot of people pouncing on the opportunity to shit on a woman (even if they truly thought she was an abuser). And B I thought that no matter who you thought was in the right it’s strange to be “team” Johnny/Amber. Like this is a public hearing and the public no matter who they considered justified is aware that someone got abused. Everyone knew that at least one of them was a DV survivor and still decided to play teams and make fancams and memes. Get a grip
That's a weirdly meta comment on a video about how mutual abuse doesn't exist. There weren't two equally abusive people in this relationship, Depp was the abuser. There weren't two equal sides making fancams and misogyny, that was just team Depp.
It all felt really weird. I was bothered by anyone taking a hard side with either when you don't know what is actually happening behind closed doors, only what they say in public.
@Zectifin it wasn't all behind closed doors. There were text messages where you see the way they spoke to each other. Where JD texted AH "when my assistant told me I kicked you when I was drunk, I broke down and cried" where he texted Paul Bettany that he's a monster and crazy when he's high or drunk. Photos and testimony of witnesses who her bruised. Not hard to put two and two together.
@williewonka9805 they didn't say they were equally abusive?
@@williewonka9805 I’m not really trying to say mutual abuse exists here at all. In fact I don’t believe it does. I was just observing how bizarre the general public reacted to the situation
I just want to say how much I appreciate your work on this topic. In 2022 I was stuck in an emotionally abusive relationship and the discourse around Depp/Heard was extremely triggering. Your video helped me feel like I was sane in a world turning upside down. Just a few months after the trial verdict, which I cried as I watched, my ex's abuse turned physical. Luckily, I have really supportive family who happened to be in town and helped me leave straight away. It's still so frustrating to see all the misunderstandings of DV and misinformation around that case though, so thanks for dealing with it again in such a sensitive (but weirdly entertaining...with South Park and all) way.
People like to think everything has a reason. You got cancer? You shouldn't have lived that lifestyle. Getting abused? You should have been a better partner. You shouldn't have been a doormat. You should have known this was coming. Everyone knows how that person is.
Hindsight is 20/20, everyone is a critic, so on and so forth.
THIS! Everyone likes to think they have so much more control of their lives than they sometimes actually have. And I understand that, because it’s hard. I have no answers, just try to have compassion.
This kinda mindset is bullshit. Some ppl just dont want to accept things happen for no reason at all bc they dont want to confront their own n everyones vulnerability.
Just saying I’m like twelve minutes in and before the analysis all of those definitions are soooo important, because words mean things and i feel like certain lexicon around mental health and abuse entering the public consciousness has led to a watering down and reframing of basic shitty behavior as abuse. So thank you for including it in your set up ❤
"You can see the hard, uncomfortable truth of DV, emotional manipulation, and psychological gaslighting: *It does not make you a good person.* In fact, we need to start asking the question of, why do we expect people who have been deeply harmed by narcissists to be good while they are in the thrall of said narcissist."
So important, so well put!! 👏👏👏
6:15 I disagree, I don’t think abusers “know” they are abusive, I think they generally see their actions as justified, especially those that aren’t physically abusive and I think it’s hard to get them to be honest and admit what they’re doing is abuse
Spot on! My ex couldn't watch grape scenes if they were in a movie or tv show, but had no problem doing it to me IRL after I'd say no or reject his advances. He probably justified it in his brain since I was "his" and "owed him" or some other BS and it wasn't super violent like the depictions in some media.
Perhaps there are the abusers that know, the abusers that don’t know, and the abusers who are starting to realise what they have become and are panicking. Maybe when you’re abusing someone, you can understand some of the ways you are hurting them, but be blind to others.
And when you’re far enough into a relationship where you have been abusive, the psychological cost of facing reality has become so grievously high that the notion of confronting it may as well be spiritual suicide. You either choose a reality where you’ve spent a lot of your one fleeting, finite life on this earth being a vindictive bully…. or a reality where you made mistakes but were ultimately sympathetic and justified in your actions. Ultimately, a lot of people will choose the one that hurts less…
It depends. Some so, some don’t. It also depends a lot on the type of abuse.
I watched this video on Nebula, and the part that stood out to me was when Heidi was at dinner with the girls and they were mocking her. All they did was solidify if she did end up back with him, she would turn away from them. When it comes to fighting abuse, there are so many different variables, but one important one is treating the victim with respect and empathy.
I'm a guy and I was the victim of a 2 year long manipulation by a woman who used nearly every tactic you described in this video. It was brief, but thank you for mentioning the stigma that men face. I've pretty much stopped trying to talk to people about it. Professionals I've talked to have said things like "I feel like every guy has a crazy ex girlfriend story." Family have told me that they would have just done things differently to how I did things. My current wife (who is otherwise and amazing and supportive partner) told me that I "talk about my ex's too much" the last time I tried to talk about trauma, so I have stopped trying to talk about my feelings regarding this to her. My abuser managed to shut me out of maintaining friendships for 2 years, so I basically lost all of the friends that I'd had.
At the end of the day, the horrific domestic violence that I faced was either unimportant, a "skill issue", or inconvenient to the people that love me or who I thought cared for me. To professionals I fit a mold. I am a man. I weighed nearly 150 lbs more than my abuser and had a foot of height on her. I am just another guy who insists that his ex is crazy. A guy who, statistically, is the one who's actually doing the abusing. Sometimes, after weeks of verbal and physical abuse I would lash out. I am not the convenient victim that people want to see.
Sorry for the rant. Thank you for the excellent content.
I'm very sorry to hear that. Hope you may find a way in the future to communicate to at least your wife that how hurt you are and that she just did not get the severety of what you tried to tell her. All of us need at least one person to support us with our shit. It's a shame no one tried to be yours. I send a big hug to you
I'm sorry nobody believes you. Is there any way you could seek out a therapist who specializes in trauma from female on male domestįc abusę situations? I imagine there's one out there. Hope you can recover from this ❤
@leckmich5452 @youdontneedtoknowwhoiam6640 thanks so much for the supportive comments. For now I am working through it. Maybe I will try opening up more or seeking out an appropriate professional in the future. But for now, being free of the toxicity of that relationship has been a massive increase to my happiness so I'm just trying to enjoy that right now. Again, thanks.
@@williamcarson3011 glad to hear you're doing better! It's totally okay if you don't want to see a professional. All I'd recommend is talking to your wife again and telling her how much her dismissal of your trąuma hurt you. Hope you two can patch things up and again I'm glad to hear you're doing better ☺️
omg i was so nervous when i saw you mention mutual abuse in that title then was instantly relieved when i saw that spoiler alert. love ya princess!
Ugh, I watched this arc back when i was still watching South Park (I don't anymore). Seeing it now makes me realize how similar my poor sister's relationship is to Heidi and Cartman's. The main difference is my sister's partner is even more passive aggressive and super covert about it. My sister is so codependent that they feel responsible for managing this guy's feelings, otherwise he'll hurt himself.
Covert narcissism? My wife was like that. I managed her feelings and emotions for years.
@@IshtarNike That's definitely what it is.
@@IshtarNikeyou guys gotta stop calling every awful person a narcissist people can just be pieces of shit
@@idontneedaname318normal human beings aren’t innately abusive. There’s usually a personality disorder or chemical imbalance, something is wrong with them either way you want to spin it.
“InuYasha should have been an indoor dog husband.” 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣🤣🤣😂🤣🤣🤣🤣 I’m dying 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
Thanks for the amazing analysis. This brought back unpleasant (and humorous)memories of my abusive relationship. My ex girlfriend used jealousy to turn me against friends and family. She even got jealous of my cat! Saying I loved him more than her, even threw things at him while on a tantrum.
It speaks of your ability as an essayist to pull this hat trick of a video with South Park as your source material. Great job!
I am so grateful for your content. I have been watching you, basically since the beginning, but I honestly wanted to cry watching your previous video on DvH. You said what everyone should have said.
I lost so much respect for so many content creators I had followed before because it was genuinely gross and embarrassing how much talking out of their asses they did just to grift off the situation. Even people who base their entire credibility on how much research they do, or how deep they dive into situations, just showed their asses by proving they were willing to publicly mock a victim specifically because they ignored all the evidence available to jump on the bandwagon. And while i could probably understand people being taken in by the convencing narrative being pushed by bought creators and the media, the WORST part is that not a single one of them has had enough respect for victims to apologize.
I used to be such a fan of Dr. Honda. He really disappointed me
Your speech at the end when it comes to the abuse making the survivor a “bad” person really helped me as a survivor myself who took on my abusers sick mindset to forgive myself. I can’t excuse it but I can move on from it and understand my circumstances at that time. Thank you this is a beautiful video ❤
thank you for defining the terms! every time people misuse the word "trauma bonding" i internally cringe deep in my soul
Butters becoming an 'incel' could be a youtube video in itself. Its often the pure that get hurt the hardest and respond the most confused.
I think Butters was only an incel for that one season, but it's been a while. I could be misremembering.
Love everything about this except the casual use of the term "narcissist " as interchangeable with "abuser." It's a clinical diagnosis that gets thrown around a LOT & contributes to armchair diagnosis, sometimes by 2cd & 3rd hand account. It medicalizes our moral judgments of others & contributes to the overall stigma of mental health issues. It muddies the waters, making it very hard to find good information about NPD. And at worst, I've seen it distilled into an us vs them narrative in which abusers are a species of soulless monsters with no humanity, prompting people to categorically reject the idea that they themselves could possibly behave in ways that are abusive. This term has been rendered radioactive by the internet.
This video had to be distributed throughout Brazil. It was very persuasive
and important information about manipulators make the victim look guilty.
I’m sorry but the fact that Kyle was blamed as the bad guy for « stealing » Heidi from Cartman when not only he tried to save her in many ways but also the bro code should not be implied when it comes to fcking Cartman 💀
The fact that he’s objectively the best character of the show does not mean he’s in the right.
Thank you for speaking on this. I hold a lot of trauma from an emotionally abusive relationship because my reactions to being mistreated were the only things that were ever focused on and I was often told I “let it happen to me”
Thank you for being brave enough to speak out this way. During the height of the trial, I was living with my abusive husband- it felt like the entire world lost its mind and nobody was safe. It was a scary time. Tysm.
Omg the subtle poly couple shade made me do a spit-take.
😂🤣
Im worried that i have been abusive or shitty or manipulative in the past.
I feel like i dont intentionally try to hurt people, but. I am not great at being accountable, either.
I feel I have to justify or explain things, and I do that as a defense mechanism cause of fear of being manipulated myself.
But I am worried that I am the thing I try to avoid.
I struggle to know what's in my control
In my opinion Being a shitty person is not a crime, you are not going to jail for it, but you might lose the person you hurt. "Healing isn't linear" as they say, so it's not fair to judge yourself based on a cartoon where all the nuance is pretty cut and dry.
sending my best to you. i recognize a lot of these feelings from my own experience, and what i can say is that awareness and acceptance of what i may have done wrong is painful and difficult but ultimately constructive. i hope you're able to find growth and healing, and the fact you're already thinking about these things looks like you're on the right path to me.
Ew god this made me realize that one of my last partners was extremely abusive
What you said about people really wanting a villain really hits home. I talked about that a lot in my She-Ra essay. I think a lot of people who wanted Catra to either die or be banished didn't grasp the idea that, as much as people might not want to admit it, a lot of people who seem like abusers to us and lash out a lot are victims of abuse themselves. Which means that there is bound to be a part of their lives where they start to adopt those habits, and the line ends up becoming more blurry than we may think. But not only am I glad that She-Ra decided to redeem Catra, and show us that even people who display their trauma in hard to see ways can still change their ways, but I'm also glad they had a dichotomy by showing how there are older abusers with their own insecurity issues causing this whole chain to begin, and then people like Horde Prime, who are truly just uninteresting narcissistic egomaniacs who lust for control over everything they see.
I wanna talk about stuff like this in future videos talking about Catra's arc, and I even want to do a video on how I think Horde Prime, the High Evolutionary from Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3, and Doflamingo from One Piece are the same character archetype. I don't know if this sounds pretentious, but seeing videos like these along with the stuff I see and want to study, I have a saying when it comes to abuse: *"There is nothing more horrifying a person with control over your life can tell you than the words: 'I will make you perfect.'"*
As someone in and trying to leave an abusive relationship its like that thing i was told as a kid about a frog boiling from cold. He was kind and loving and i believed in that. Now i walk on eggshells daily while i plan my escape the worst part? I love the him that he was at the start.
Just know that the person he was at the start, was a fake. A mask he put on for your benefit. It's a hard pill to swallow, I know from personal experience. You could drive yourself crazy trying to get him to became the person who you believed in. But it's never who he really was. He will never be that guy.
When I try to say anything about my partner abusing me, people think I'm the "I hate my wife guy".
Damn I'm so sorry you're going through that 💔 Hopefully sooner or later you'll have the courage to leave. Never settle for less you deserve more than that🩷
@ximsbite it's not about courage. It's about a dozen other factors like bills, pets, and disablities. That's like telling a heroine addict that they should get clean. No shit. They wouldn't be doing heroin if they didn't have a chronic pain problem, and I wouldn't be in an abusive relationship if I wasn't trapped by power dynamics. I don't want to drop out of school to be a homeless crippled person.
@@lefu87williford55 damn there's no need to be passive aggressive or project your "anger" onto me. Most of the time it's courage that people need to leave but I assume know that's more so for women. I'm sorry to have assumed that. Hopefully you have friends or family to support or lean on. Have a good day
@ximsbite saying most people in my situation just need courage is victim blaming. No one stays because they are afraid to leave. They are afraid to leave because the power dynamics that enable the abuse make leaving unrealistic.
I'm going blind on top of having already existing condotions. I have no friends or family within hundreds of miles. It's winter. If I were to go be homeless and let my abuser keep my stuff and my pets so I can go sleep in the snow while trying to go to school, I'll probably have to drop out and start paying back my student loans ontop of looking for a job I am capable of doing with my health problems and job skills. None of that would be less stressful than finishing my program and getting my massage therapy license so I can be financially independent.
@@lefu87williford55 Its not victim blaming?? I've personally have been verbally abused in my home life and relationships (maybe its different for physical abuse) But it was so hard to leave my romantic relationships because I loved them and I made excuses for them but I also felt like I had already invested a lot into them. But I understand now that its different for people who live with their partners, which thankfully I never was able to experience that. I'm sorry if it seemed like I was implying "you should just leave... why haven't you left if they're abusive?" and like I was trying to victim blame. It wasn't my intention at ALL. Its hard leave a partner especially if you think so lowly of yourself or you don't want to lose them (in my own experience). However, I understand it is not the case for you, and the issue is economic aspects and having disabilities along with other things you have mentioned. I wish you the best and hopefully you're able to have at least some type of support system nearby either physically or online. Having at least some friends that you can vent to helps a lot in alleviating stress, even if only temporarily. Don't lose hope!, you'll have a better life soon
4:55 I don’t have the mental strength for this one today but I wanted to comment for the algorithm at least and give you a thumbs up for what I’m sure is an amazing video 🥰
Yeah, thank you for the reminder! I've been sick the past week and I will have to watch this when I don't already feel too awful.
never clicked faster on a video in my LIFE
6:54 Hell authorities DO believe abusers. I was abused for 15 years. I finally snapped and yelled back at my abuser and his family who covered for the abuse. They caught me on camera yelling back and the authorities said “nothing to see here” and let my abuser go. They then force me into “coparenting” classes with my abuser. The power dynamics were very evident as the abuser and family are white and I’m not. Unless you’ve got marks on you over a long period of time the justice system doesn’t care. It’s the one reason I didn’t report my sexual assault because I knew the authorities wouldn’t believe me.
That clip of the Juror saying that about Nicole Brown is soooooooo chilling. It’s haunted me since I watched that documentary the year it came out
The Heidi/Cartman storyline was probably one of the most fascinating things Matt Stone and Trey Parker ever did on South Park
On one hand, I see how at the end of the story, Heidi could be seen as blaming herself and taking responsibility for allowing herself to be in a toxic relationship…all of which are problematic
On the other hand, everyone in her life failed to protect her. Her friends ruthlessly mocked and laughed at her, Cartmans “friends” were indifferent to what he was doing despite being victims of him themselves, and Cartmans mom and Heidi’s parents also turned a blind eye. Kyle was the only one who cared, but it was so easy for Heidi to think that he only did that so that she’d start dating him, or for Cartman to manipulate her into thinking that
So what could she do? In the end, she chose herself. And she didn’t do it with reactionary abuse, she just walked away, clearly and thankfully done.
“Why do we expect people that have been deeply harmed by narcissist to be good while they are in the thrawl of said narcissist” and the part where you talk about people favoring the more charismatic person is so fucking real. My father is a narcissist, he doesn’t have a diagnosis or anything but its one of those cases that its so textbook accurate that theres no need for one. I have been villainized since I was a literal child for not being “good”, for fighting back and calling out the lies instead of being quiet and loving. For calling him an awful abusive person bc obviously my vision is twisted bc I was a rebellious teenager (I wasn’t) and as an adult I’m just immature and trying to hurt him by cutting him off. I wasn’t a submissive victim, I was never violent but I always stood my ground and that somehow got translated into violence. The constant criticism of not being the “better person” so obviously I was the problem not me fucked me up so much from such a young age. And lets be clear he wasn’t just an asshole to me, he was an asshole to everyone but he was charismatic and financially powerful and that trumped literally anything else. There is no perfect victim but we need to stop trying to filter out the truth that is right in our faces and show love, empathy and understanding to those that are being harmed by narcissists
I feel every word 😔
I have NPD among other things, I’m 99% certain. For at least four years now. I feel you, my auntie and mother dealt alot of trauma, addict behaviour, narcissistic behaviour to me while young. After my grandad passed away it all went to sh!t. Anyways my auntie completely cut me off and moved cities to avoid us all. My addict narcissistic mother is always in abusive relationships and getting punched exc. And still to this day can’t understand what she’s done wrong. I’m no innocent person either, my self awareness fluctuates daily.
But I’m glad you stood your ground as a kid, I always toke it and cried… regret that now.
A toxic relationship is easy to see; telling whose fault it is from the outside is almost impossible. If a relationship is toxic, it needs to end, and at that point the person who refuses to let go becomes the problem (ie if you disrespect a restraining order, you are always in the wrong).
The problem is that our “justice” system is not built to deal with such ambiguity.
Imo, we need “mutual restraining orders” not because both are equally guilty but because of the impossibility of telling who is more guilty.
That’s an idea!
I have such weird feelings associated with these 2 seasons because not only does Cartman and Heidi's relationship plot feel so much like what I went through with my ex, but it coincidentally aired at the exact same time that I was trying to break up with said ex and get them out of my house 😬
I wasn't able to watch the show at all for a few years after all that mess
This is the second video today for me that explains the correct usage of "trauma bonding." Very weird coincidence.
I think it's important to extend this idea that abused people shouldn't be expected to hold up a goodness standard out to all kinds of other kinds of folks with serious problems. People getting off drugs potentially won't be great people in their present, even as they move mountains in their lives. People with eating disorders or depression can be absolutely infuriating and shallow and stupid at the very time they are reaching for help. And one reason you have to be really hard-nosed about making sure abuse victims make their own choices, and are not coerced in any way, is that it's very easy for friends to build a perfect escape route for someone in danger and being consistently hurt, only to have that person turn around, go back to their abuser, and squander a lot of good will and resources.
Honestly, there are some brutal things to deal with here, and it's hard to find answers. I remember once meeting the friend of a mother with a bruise on her eyebrow and a story about falling down the stairs and realizing that a family member had done that, but knowing I could do nothing. Even if she had wanted help, I was barely an acquaintance and she'd never be honest with me. She continues in what way I wonder with her daughter witha mental disability living with her there too. It's deeply unsettling. I don't have answers.
When you're abused for long enough, you take on some of the traits of your abuser.
Sometimes, after leaving, you miss the type of intimacy (trauma bond) abuse has.
Abusers have trouble regulating their emotions. The intense "highs" are genuine - and hard to replicate.
Currently focused on my Eleventh Doctor fanfic rewrite and was on a video essay hiatus to focus but I saw this title from you and I clicked SO FAST you're the one I can trust on this sort of thing
I wouldn't conflate abusers with people who have Narcissistic Personality Disorder, but otherwise, this video is spot on. Especially with the "protect them with kindness" moral.
I refused to watch the case from anyone other than a lawyer simply because I don’t want misinformation or people think they know but they don’t
Not gonna lie, "Token's Life Matters" got me. It just works on so many levels.
lmao the south park analysis cutting back and forth with bell hooks is INSANE i love it
Wow. I've been using "love-bombing" and "trauma bonding" terms wrong this whole time.
Great analysis as always. We helped me understand that Cartman was still being a sociopath even at the beginning of his relationship with Heidi treating her like a "Cool Chick."
I mostly agree with the video. Mostly.
I just think one thing is...an odd choice. Though common in society so I get not really thinking about it in the moment.
In the section that you decry the mindset of heros and villains and perfect victims etc you scapegoat a traumagenic mental illness (npd/narcissism) and paint it like everyone with that particular cPTSD manifestation is just automatically a bad and abusive person and The Problem in any given situation. But that's not really the case.
I know hacks like to perpetuate anti healing and Ableist/saneist terms like "narcissistic abuse". Bit it makes as much sense as Autisitc abuse.
(I say as am autistic person who was abused by an autistic parent in ways that were very much informed by rigid thinking, narrow sets of interests, sensory need miss matches and other things fundamentally informed by the autism itself. And ADHD abuse. Damn that one has such a specific profile that if I even describe how my diagnosed and medicated mother acted in a neurodivergent group that knows nothing of her dx, EVERYONE comes swarming to tell me they think it sounds like she might have ADHD uwu. Tho outside of those groups everyone feels the need to Helpfully "Inform" me about Narcissism/narcissistic abuse. Cause apparently the external manifestation is actually really similar leading many to feel the need to excuse identical actions in some that they condemn in others depending on how stigmatized their diagnosis is.)
But it's not the diagnosis that makes someone be abusive. Those kinds of terms and framing imply differently and often are used to justify worsening environmental conditions or even engaging in ableist, classist, and often racist genocide campaigns.
And when you do frame a diagnosis as inherently abusive it really removes all incentive to even try to do or be or act better rather than just embracing the toxicity as who you fundamentally are.
And that stagnates healing on a personal level (as you fixated on trying to diagnose and essentialize the abuser and internalize the victim mindset way too long after the fact) as well as a social level (abusers feeling like they can't and shouldn't own up and change) and on a cultural level (as more people with these trauma profiles are created they see how people like them are talked about casually and academically. And the doomed villain role will be internalized if that's all these kinds of people are even able to see themselves as.)
In b4
"but she said narcissism not npd. That's just a trait/behavioral pattern not an illness..."
Yeah and if you don't eat a burger imma call you anorexic then. And if you get offended I'll simply point out that anorexia simply means without appetite and I didn't say anorexia NERVOSA which is the actual disorder name.
(And yes..medical records will list literally anyone as being anorexic if they refuse a meal or talk about not having much appetite. It's an actual symptom and term used medically that has nothing to do with the eating disorder. But it's still obviously not what anyone really thinks about. Especially anyone who hasn't taken a medical terminology class to intellectualize about the Technicalities of it.)
It's a lazy excuse to use a disorder name as an insult and a scapegoat for the kinds of people and behaviors you don't like. And everyone making that incessant defense knows they're just playing the "I'm not technically TOUCHING you" game but with saneist slurs.
Just stop it
And yes, cluster B disorders are pretty much just cPTSD with different dominant tendencies and triggers. (this is something most MMINDS activists and even allied practitioners tend to believe. That there really is no cluster B. Just complex trauma).
The kinds of traumas we see Eric experience kinda constantly.
Npd generally developing in the golden child that grows up having to be exactly what the parents want to avoid being devalued completely or even scapegoated. They often feel the need to lie and develop false and grander masks to please their target audience and the insecurities they grew up with as a result of their knowing their love and adoration is very much conditional on their performance for the abuser (such as Isabela from encanto).
BPD tends to prop up more in the parentified oldest daughter types that tend to experience abandonment and premature responsibility (the mom from Malcolm in the middle perhaps)
Hpd tends to correlate with highly yet poorly masked autism within female individuals (being that it's essentially just trying to perform some vague stereotype concept of ideal feminity but comes across as really fake, attention seeking, and socially inappropriate. But likely developed from prolonged social traumas from not really being like everyone else. Though special interests in traditional feminine interests may also contribute to the alienation and Hyper Feminity vibe that usually comes from it. Just think your average Autisitc coded robot character but a teenage girl. Though my life as a teenage robot doesn't actually demonstrate that trope very much iirc)
ASPD tends to correlate with having to do unpleasant things to survive (even just as much as working at the local slaughterhouse. And can correlate to basically half of all Brooding Man Baddie anti hero types. Like idk Deadpool or something)
Literally all of it is just prolonged repeated trauma of similar types borrowed in enough to rewire how you handle stress and to see different kinds of situations as threatening when they might not be. Or if they are, not as bad as your nervous system thinks.
(or perhaps shutting down emotionally almost completely in the case of aspd and perhaps just not caring if a situation is threatening or harmful to yourself or others. Which is still a not uncommon trauma response).
@@FawkseynessI agree with you, but as someone who lives with BPD, most of the time, I am aware of the horrible things I think inside but it’s not something I can stop. That’s what makes it a personality disorder the same way that ADHD and Autism affects someone.
You surely come across as someone empathetic from the way you explain what others deem as other and evil, and I appreciate that.
@@jiyojiy6202 trauma does that to everyone. Like even the owl beast from the owl house can be read as trauma being triggered (and managed, understood, coming to peace with it).
I do feel for it cause I have trauma and toxic tendencies that I only was able to get any better from by rejecting the BPD label and personality disorder framing in the first place (both for myself and for my abusers. Bad cycle when moralizing about certain DX and symptoms when it's all unhealthy even if it's socially privileged. It's like a sabotage that some bad therapists engage in to foster prolonged dependency. I hate it)
@@Fawkseyness I feel ya. I didn’t mean to say it’s something that can or can’t be fixed. It’s just something that we live with, and it won’t always be bad and ugly, it can just be a part of us.
Absolutely nailed it as always! I did not follow the Depp v Heard case because learning about celebrities' personal lives makes me super uncomfortable but there is zero surprise from me that that is how it all went down. Thanks for tackling such a tricky topic and also for the Bell Hooks quotes which are always so welcome in every scenario ever.
It makes me genuinely happy when I see someone like you "in the wild." Our culture's celebrity obsession is equal parts deranged and gross, and seeing people who recognize that gives me just a little more hope for the future.
I gave up on South Park a decade ago, but having heard aspects of these overarching plots through the member-vine, I always thought exploring Cartman's dynamic with a girlfriend was an interesting idea. Neat to see Trey and Matt didn't completely fuck up that concept (like a lot of the other half-baked ideas I heard from that season) and it actually portrays abusive behavior (mostly) accurately.
Wow... Meghan Good emerged from an old Law and Order SVU episode just to enter the Jonathan Major's case. Full circle.
Saw this on Nebula. I really thought at the time that the whole Cartman Heidi relationship was a metaphor about Trump and his supporters. After watching your video, I can see that Trump makes his supporter enter into an abusive relationship. If he lies, they have to work overtime to explain to themselves and others how it's not a lie. By lying to themselves, they break a little inside every time. Eventually they just become mean, abusive people who lash out with anger and lies, just like their hero. It's definitely the abuser's fault, but by allowing yourself to continue in the relationship, you cannot escape the transformation.
Yeah was my first read when I watched this episode. Trump supporters are, in a way, victims themselves of his cruelty and callousness. The parts of Heid's arc in these seasons I think Weekes doesn't like are because the dynamic is pulling double duty as a political metaphor. In the Trump/Trumper dynamic the rage and hate that has been built up amongst them would need to be represented in some way. Kinda wish she had touched on that a bit as well, though I get it wasn't the point of the video and largely irrelevant for the read of the material she is focused on here.
Matt and Trey like to do this and it’s a really good way of approaching both political analysis and just writing about individuals experiencing social shifts.
One of the first times I saw a gay relationship treated with real dramatic weight rather than as a joke or just as a static background dynamic, funnily enough, was in South Park: Bigger, Longer, and Uncut. I still really like Satan in that movie; although it’s definitely intentionally being outrageous for humor, Satan’s relationship with Saddam Hussein is written with startling nuance and realism for the time, and subverts the common portrayals of gay men (like Big Gay Al in the same movie) by making Satan simultaneously a leader who has ambition and plans to achieve his goals with a muscular masculine presentation, and a sensitive, gentle soul who longs for connection and love; he’s paired not with a character that exists on the other side of a gendered binary, but with Saddam Hussein who is portrayed as the most realistically godawful short mean bad boyfriend ever. I love “I Can Change” both as a song and in how it portrays that kind of guy. Especially when he claims “look at me, I’m changin!” and proceeds to just… do his little dance, which fools Satan completely 😂
That’s a dynamic I’ve seen in herero and homosexual relationships many times. It’s both a funny joke and a very accurate observation on how abusive people work.
But what made it so affirming for me as a young gay man was that Satan learning to take his power back is placed on the same level as the other plot lines, because Matt and Trey are good writers, so Satan’s relationship with Saddam IS the same thing as Kyle’s relationship with his mother IS America’s relationship with the bullying Moral Majority demanding censorship of all but their personal white christian narrative.
Now in that movie, funnily enough, all those plots get resolved when Cartman’s V Chip gets a shock from the Terrence and Phillip electric chair power source and allow him to, by uttering foul language, shoot lighting from his hands to disable Saddam Hussein long enough
for Satan to quote Captain Kirk and toss Saddam off a cliff. By attempting to suppress foul language, the Mothers Against Canada have infused those words with power and that lets them be effectively used to defeat the abusive dynamic at the center of the story.
The Trolltrace arc obviously made Cartman a force for evil in that case, but I always saw it as a return to that specific “romantic toxicity as metaphor for american toxicity” idea, and I think was an attempt to promote empathy rather than division. It’s also not entirely inaccurate, depending on your point of a view, and I’m personally a fan, though obviously it shouldn’t be someone’s ONLY perspective of how abuse works.
I never realised when they 'make you the bad guy' had a name.
if this get me back on my craig and tweek bullshit im suing
Thank you so much for this video 🩷 Bless so many video essayists and media, cultural and historical analysis on this platform.
hey! thank you so much for this video! i, s few months ago, got out of an abusive relationship. it was horrible and i was able to leave my situation. i kept doubting the reality of my situation, thinking, no i'm just being dramatic or but i did worse kind of mentality. sometimes i find myself doubting if my ex partner was ever abusive because of how good my family and friends talk about him. it makes me afraid to come out and speak my truth because i know my family isn't really open to topics about abusive relationships.
i acted similar to heidi during the last years of the relationship, it was hell. i didn't want to become like my parents yet i was going that direction. i was able to wake up from my situation and put an end to the cycle of abuse. i appreciate that you made this into a video and brought awareness to this topic. i may not be able to talk about it with my family, but you were able to create a safe space here to inform and bring awareness. i would love to hear you go more in depth with this topic like you mentioned earlier in the video (when you are ready!). this video was great! keep up the good work! :)
Another relationship that was (sometime stills is depending on the blogs) constantly getting talked about and had “mutual abuse” being a key phrase to describe em is blueface and chrisean rock
I just remember all the discourse of both men and women trying to decide who was much worse in the relationship, and now those two have a child together
I hate that I now can’t stop doing the member-berries voice and I at least think I’m pretty great at it
I haven’t been able to stop either!! That and my Cartman voice are … too good. XD
Wow! I was 10 minutes in and really enjoying this video when I realized I wanted to subscribe because the topic and presentation were top-quality only to find this was a Princess Weekes production and I hadn't stumbled across a new brilliant creator who is able to tackle complex issues in an way that is both entertaining but also informative, instead i'd just stumbled on yet another enlightening take on a modern issue from one of my favorite creators. Congratulations on making me fall in love with your style of infotainment videos all over again.
Awesome to hear that you've come over to Nebula! 😁 And thank you for these thoughtful presentations & for defining terms first, really important for accuracy & clarity when talking about difficult topics.
Know this one is going to be triggering for me so I will have to watch it not right before bed but just reminded me of how I had my first non-asleep flashback in years due to someone listening to that trial at work. Also seen people say it's not real if you don't call the cops- I never called the cops on my abuser (until I finally left and then it was labelled a cold case) because reporting or trying to leave without absolute safety protocols in place literally increases your risk of death significantly. Also it was very in a decade ago to tell especially femme presenting people if they left someone with mental health issues they were a terrible person. I literally almost died trying to stay in that relationship because of stuff like that multiple times. Mental health issues don't make you a bad person (I have a couple myself) but also neither does leaving someone for your safety if someone's mental health issues are too much for you.
sometimes when i’m done with the video i’ll just let the outro music play until it’s over. sometimes i’ll even restart it. damn, i love that song
So, personal story. I still struggle a lot to unpack my relationship with my ex, and I'm not sure I'll ever fully have a handle on which one of us "started it". A lot of stuff is blurry from that patch of my life, and the stuff that shines clearest to me is the harm I did and the guilt I hold. I remember little things she did if I search for them--like, I remember my friend commenting on how it seemed like she and I could never get through a conversation without her finding something I did wrong, and how finite her time for me always seemed to be. I also remember how codependent I could be, how I let my RSD run completely unchecked whenever she didn't have time for me and how I allowed that sulkiness to turn into a guilt trip, a punishment.
I remember how often her lack of spoons was used to control my ability to bring up problems or anxieties, how frustrated she'd get if I ever raised an issue without checking in if she had energy for it and how difficult it became for me to do so as a result. She never started conversations on her own when she felt ready for them. She just waited. I also remember the lengthy conversations with her I carried out in my head, how I stewed in my silence and got mad about things I _assumed_ she was thinking. I remember how she did the same thing about me.
I remember how afraid I always was of saying the wrong thing, worried she would snap at me out of the blue for a joke, a careless remark, some awkward phrasing she read into. I remember how she would act completely normal a second later, like it was no big deal, and I'd just be left reeling from whiplash. I remember how she did the same thing after our fights. I remember the times I got moody and sulked when she didn't want to have sex, the ways I pressured her to give me more attention because I thought I needed it. I remember how alone and nervous I felt with her. I remember how she once told me a fight we were in was making her want to self-harm and then closed the door.
I don't really know what came first. There's stuff here I'm probably forgetting, probably stuff that makes me look worse--even though the guilty memories shine clearer, I can feel myself shrink from them, terrified that they'll reveal something about who I was if I face them. I also know how fuzzy my memory of her treatment of me is nowadays? Some of the stuff she did has probably been smoothed over, while other stuff has likely been sharpened over the years, become worse than maybe it really was.
A lot of people here have very clear and simple stories of abuse. I still don't know who started it. And at the same time, I don't think it matters? It does and it doesn't. It doesn't matter because proving that she was the Bad Guy or that I was the Bad Guy changes nothing. I know the behaviors I did were bad and that I should never repeat them, but whether they were "my fault" or "her fault"? It would be nice to know who was to blame for that past relationship, who was the abuser and who was reacting. Maybe it was just a toxic relationship, with no abuser, just two girls who fell in love too fast and burned out on each other even faster. But I don't know if it helps me.
This video did help me, though! It helped me to think about it more directly. So thank you.
you are not alone in this. much love.