What Went Wrong with Legacy Characters in the MCU
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
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tags: young avengers, mcu, marvel, miss marvel, riri Williams, kamala khan, the marvels, doctor strange, wakanda forever,
I still can't get over how they contrived a plotline in the same year for two separate chrachter in two separate films to make a teenage girl feel like they are responsible for the villain killing dozens of people to get to them.
America and who? Kamala?
I think chasing America for a Blue Harvest was inspired tho in a world where we quite licherally objectify people. The honorable sacrifice turned into a honorable intervention, 9/10
Kamala becoming more important than the bangle is kinda cliché but I didn't mind it since they're trying to clean up the Inhumans mess any way they can
Who is this?
@@witchrich2365Riri and America
@@AlabasterTenohhhhhhhh.. my biggest criticism of Riri's debut is it was so brief. The tone was fine, but so fast, I don't even remember her or the scenes lol
@nailinthefashion I agree although to add to that i feel another problem is that i was odd to not introduce her in an iron man project or something like armor wars with war machine it was odd that they choose black panther i get that she's black but that's like introducing Miles Morales in a blade movie lol. She comes across less as a legacy and more of a knock of brand because they couldn't get the real thing lol.
I think Shuri and Riri could have provided a very interesting contrast. Shuri being African, super-privileged, used to doing her inventing in the best-equipped lab in the world, Riri being African-American, never having any of Shuri's privilege, used to hacking things together from scrap. But of course since Shuri has her own arc much more crucial to the film, there isn't really time for that, and it just felt like a big missed opportunity to me.
I'm only halfway through, so I don't know if you get to this, but imo this all goes back to Black Widow in Iron Man 2 and then her solo movie being pushed to release after the character is already dead.
Kind of reminds me of the 2017 champions book where they put Dust and Miss Marvel on the same team.
And there are contrasts. Kamala grew up relatively happy until a BS conflict got her powers and she decided to be a hero. Sooraya, on the other hand, developed her powers because she was torn from her family and about to be sexually assaulted in Afghanistan.
They do show a significant of the differences and similarities between the two but they also have to juggle Miles’ Mephisto story which is, pardon the pun, Miles better than One more day.
That's a cool teamup I hadn't thought of@@christopherbennett5858
Riri was ruined from her creation.
Riri is American, she grew up in Chicago.
@@nullno3722Right, hence the contrast with Shuri.
I think one of the biggest problems with the MCU as far as legacy characters are concerned, is that superhero comics dont end, but movies have to. The confidence that they had to end Endgame the way they did, with the most beloved early characters tying up their loose ends before just moving on? That was brave of them, and it payed off. It painted a picture of a confident studio that knew they were closing the book on a media franchise, and knew they'd have to start over with the same confidence and bravery that got them to that point.
And then that confidence EVAPORATED overnight! Its like this weird haphazard race to the bottom that favors quantity over quality, where characters don't have any time to think or feel or BREATHE, where the concept of a multiverse takes precedent over telling a halfway decent story, where new characters aren't given the kind of time we'd need to fall in love with them. Im so sick of the multiverse stuff and I feel like its not even in full swing yet. Im so tired of seeing superheros make confused expressions looking at things they don't understand. Im so tired of all the "WOAH THIS IS LIKE MY HOME BUT DIFFERENT AND WOAH YOU ARE LIKE ME BUT FROM A DIFFERENT PLACE WOAH". Stuff like this is why I STOPPED reading superhero comics! And now its infecting the medium that was previously immune to its trappings!
When everything in the present is obsessed with what comes next, you create a shallow present. They're not doing their franchise any favors by shoehorning as many characters as they can into badly constructed stories.
I really wish they would prioritize just making a good movie. Is that so hard to ask? That one of the most profitable movie franchises ever just makes ONE GOOD MOVIE instead of ten mediocre ones?
The problem I'm seeing a lot of y'all having is good is more subjective than you're allowing.
Marvels is now my favourite MCU film, because it is good. Other people vehemently hate it even if they gave it a fair shake, a lot won't even pirate it.
So what does that say? Are the films generally thaf bad, do I prefer bad movies, or are the ways we express ourselves getting a little too extreme? They believe in these projects or they wouldn't get released, they wouldn't stay on them. We have seen people abandon a project before. Feige realizes where the flaws are but accepted what can be done with limited resources. Time, energy, personnel, all have to be balanced and they can't just pause everything. We have to accept that Secret Invasion isn't just one mistake or choice, but a culmination of many.
Strange 2 is my #2, Raimi put his Raimiussy in it and swirled. But again, people hate it.
I don't think it's a matter of good or bad, but of more nuanced words. Complex or simple, silly vs dramatic, what you like vs dislike, and everyone can't be pleased so of course some projects will get more attention than others.
@@nailinthefashion "What can be done with limited resources?" My brother in Christ, are you feeling well?
In all seriousness, I pretty much noped out of phase 4 after MoM because I was in the camp that thought it was extremely mediocre. Sam deserved to put his Raimussy into something that wasn't a commercial for a product that no one has even decided what it is yet. The mid tempo action scenes, the sequel set ups, the useless characters, the length, the humor, it's just like... Damn. If you told 15 year old me, "listen son, one day the Evil Dead guy gets to make a DOCTOR STRANGE MOVIE called MULTIVERSE OF MADNESS. It's an action horror movie, and the main villain is Scarlet Witch." That would have blown my mind. And then you watch the end result and it's just like.... this is what we're doing? Christ
@@sassytabasco you really ranted about how it's not to your preferences lol the musical fight btwn the Stranges is something we would see in the comics, like a Pokémon battle, panel by panel. Of course it's not that fast, they aren't brawlers. Useless characters, of course, yes, America is young and learning how to control her powers before our eyes, but that's fine, you don't need to see the merit lol.
Each project has limited resources, yeah, they don't get blank checks otherwise everything would be even more expensive.
Ironically 15 years ago I hated a lot of Marvel since Perlmutter was actively saying he wanted to focus on straight white stories.. if you had told me that not only would a film center a lesbian, but also her moms, and the Scarlet Witch wants to use her like monster energy drink I would have finally had hope hahahaha.
I only liked Iron Man for sssoooo long. Phase 4 is my awakening as a super fan
Now scamper off to watch Netflix Daredevil for the umpteenth time hahaha
@@nailinthefashion look I gotta level with you, most of my disappointment with phase 4 is realizing that I have like 3, maybe 4 mcu projects that I would passionately defend. I'm realizing that I probably should have just stopped with endgame. Above anything else right now, I WANT TO WATCH GOOD MOVIES. I'm bored of franchises, I'm bored of brands. These movies? The stories are ass. The cinematography is ass. The dialogue is ass. The score is ass. There are no characters, just archetypes. There's no meaning. No sentiment. No intensity, no stakes, no tension, no feelings, no beauty....
So yeah I mean, you're right, they're not to my preference, because I expect the most profitable media franchise in the world to be good at what they do LOL. If the general public had the same standards that they set for the Phase 1 movies, they'd probably be on my side of things!
I appreciate if you're getting something out of these that I'm not, but at the same time, it's like you're squeezing water from stone to praise these movies. Personally I find the LGBT themes to be borderline tokenism and tired by the standards of a 2003 rom com, and the way they wrapped up Scarlet Witch's arc was so obvious, generic, and frankly misogynistic. So cliche too.
@@sassytabasco I don't need to be bashed over the head with extremely obvious dialog to get the juice.
I love your perspective because it has merit, you do see the overarching blandness that has to happen to get these out consistently.
But my optimism lets me accept that haha.
When I watched the Marvels, I thought, oh my god, finally, I'm watching multiple strong feminine women be unique and learn from each other.
Kamala looks up to Carol like an actual Goddess. To see that stripped away, acknowledged as a war criminal, and for Kamala to then not only get to practice her powers with her idol but then to see the horrors of war, of mass casualties, AND her family gets to be in on it?
Peak. This is zenith for me. Instantly my favourite MCU film, story so far, imagery and all.
Had they stuck with her stretchy powers she would be so irrelevant to all this since she doesn't have extreme super strength to back it up.
Had they not done her show first, I wouldn't have cared.
There's so many little good choices you're ignoring or don't care for, it says nothing about my taste or the film itself.
It doesn't matter how good a choice is if someone actively discredits it, doesn't wanna see it. They make mistakes but also a lot of beauty, too.
I feel similarly about Strange 2. How dare people reduce every instance of a straight male being a mentor to a girl as problematic. The film depicts America as scared and running, but then she sees how much he's willing to sacrifice for her and realizes she has nothing left to lose. Her parents are assumably dead, so she makes a choice of surrendering her power or using it.
I mean, hello? Isn't that a good plot point? Shallow, vapid, basic, whatever edge you wanna add to it, but still worthy of being seen?
Maybe I really am a sheep, but I don't like every part of everything they do.
The flaws just aren't as poisonous to the rest of the projects imo. Yes we can always do with more explanations, but expecting perfection and not appreciating the good is so ... annoying.. lmao
I agree that America Chavez was wasted, but I think Riri was worse because of how she affected the worldbuilding. The whole point is Wakanda and Vibranium is supposed to be a tier above any other earthly power; then you have an American teenager with minimal resources build a battle suit that can instantly compete with Wakanda (yes, Vibranium makes the suit much stronger, but even the original suit was very powerful). That just breaks everything the worldbuilding was trying to do. She did not fit in the story, and including her was a disservice to both the character and the story.
To me it's the opposite, it shows how resourceful she is, so much so she could start her own government but the established one not only fears her, but then empowers her, cuz she's a better ally than enemy. 8/10, I wish they had just waited for the show or made her building a mark 2 or 3
the MCU doesn't really have worldbuilding. There is a whole universe full of aliens with technology 10 times more advanced than anything any earthling has and it had zero impact on anything going on on earth. They found out aliens are real and the world went "uh, ok, whatever". You're just asked to pretend space and aliens don't exist unless they're directly relevant to the current plot.
Vibranium is the same - wakanda is a powerful and advanced nation, when convenient to the plot. Otherwise it doesn't exist. Technological development is arbitrary, you can have one story with the vulture flying around in an alien tech suit followed by a story that basically takes place in the real world with no sci-fi tech at all.
Not the first time, MCU ruined its worldbuilding already with Captain Marvel.
Also, ignoring the implications she brought, Riri just carried a very different energy and tone than the rest of the movie. She did not fit in the story indeed.
@@nailinthefashion It also shows how Wakanda was lagging. People forget, but Wakanda was an ethnostate. It kinda still is, even though it is walking towards being more open. Wakanda was the most advanced nation in the world for most of its history, but isolation breeds stagnation. From Iron Man onwards, the outside world has been catching up. I mean, unless clearly stated, I don't think the one can look at Wakandan tech and late-game Stark tech and say that the latter is too far behind. And that is not to say about the fact that there are other nations/organizations that are as advanced, if not more than Wakanda interacting with the world now. You have New Asgard in Norway, Tlalokan, the Inhuman nation of Attilan, the Skrulls working with SWORD, etc.
For me it also made Namor’s plan make less sense. The film could’ve tackled the tension between both groups more effectively instead of his objective being “kill the scientist” when the government still had access to the technology anyway.
Probably the most frustrating thing about how these legacy heroes have been treated by the MCU is that if they can't get treating these actual minority characters right, why in the world should we trust them to handle the message and metaphor of the X-Men? (which particularly sucks for Kamala considering how they haphazardly paperclipped her into that franchise)
I think something that people should accept is that Inhumans were mutants, they just had a different culture and naming conventions, but they had similar struggles. To me it makes sense for them to unify them
I am dreading people trying earnestly to put progressive messaging into X-men, because it doesn't work. X-men do not work as a serious straight-across metaphor for marginalized people because the world-building surrounding mutants from the very beginning has been the most jank "we didn't think about this" shit.
Like " 'We don't need to be fixed' the woman who creates snowstorms said to the girl who kills everyone she touches" is just the surface-level of how silly it gets.
You can slip in some subtext there and brush against real issues, but actually having X-men be serious about marginalization requires a level of surgery that no Marvel IP holders have been willing to do.
@@jjj7790 I mean yeah the MCU will almost assuredly fuck it up but the actual X-Men have usually managed to dodge the whole "how the Hell are these people marginalized when they have superpowers" thing by either having certain mutants suck so they any cop can murder them (Toad) or Trask shows up with with his giant robot Sentinels to make things "fair."
@@SuperPal-tr3go…what comics have you been reading there are more that talk about the dangers and how they’re marginalized across different countries and cultures. You’re really generalizing the danger they face and making it so vague like lmao… 🤔
@@ccvv1119 a lot of people haven't been reading modern Xmen stuff but it addresses exactly what they described. ORCHIS finally rose up and rallied humans against mutants. Fall of X has been incredible stuff, my favourite ever tbh. Storm is finally at her expected power level, they're exploring nuance within visible mutants and the normies. It's everything lol it will actively be difficult to adapt any of it and not do it justice, much harder to mess up than Dark Phoenix which weren't even horrible attempts.
As one of the four people who've actually read the ClanDestine books I think I can explain why they used them for the Ms. Marvel show: in the comics they're one weird family and their mom is a genie, which is why they have superpowers. Someone at Disney was like "oh, a genie? like from the middle east!" and the rest was history.
Few of these legacy characters appear in books as tightly written as Kate Bishop in Matt Fraction’s Hawkeye run. In turn, Kate had the best introduction in the MCU because of it.
Which is one reason why I think Hawkeye is the best of these shows thus far alongside Loki: Season 2 (among other reasons).
Super duper underrated and I'm glad we have it as a Christmas staple.
In my season 2 of Hawkeye, we see her and Kamala rounding up more of the Young Avengers. Gimme that shit
I found kate boring at best, and insufferable at worst.
(Well, she and yelena, if we're being honest.)
But to each their own.
@@icetomeetu even when she's voice acting she's so distinct. But if you let her serve face, it's on a platter
i think kate was handled horribly. they turned her into a plucky side and erased her moral compass so she could just ignores Hawkeye's shitty actions.
comic kate would never. mcu kate is just white kamala khan.
17:47 I think the best time to introduce Riri would’ve been in Iron Man 3. They should’ve replaced that white kid that Tony hanged out with for Riri. Have her help fix his suit, which would inspire her to make her own. Tony, seeing her intelligence, offers to mentor her on the side.
Ironman 3 continues to miss opportunities, this many years later
@@lewa3910riri was made after iron man 3 so they didn’t miss out on her she just didn’t exist yet
@@Boobilby just looked it up & you’re right. An alternative I would say introduce her in spider-man homecoming. Maybe have her design Peter’s initial suit. Then we can have them develop a working relationship. Tony can name drop her as his other apprentice. Have her come to New York on an apprenticeship. Then have her show up again in Far From Home, grieving Tony’s death. Which can lead to her having self doubts in her abilities. Peter helps motivate her & they make him a new suit together. After that we can have a very brief moment in No Way Home where she talks to Peter (On the Phone back home in Chicago) about being accepted into MIT. Ooor have her not be dusted during the blip & have her take up the mantle of Iron Heart while Tony becomes a family man.
@@mizushogun Hell, I would’ve rather have her in Ned’s role because Ned is such a waste of space who just so happens to have important functions and roles thrusted upon him to justify his existence (even though he’s not fun or funny like all of the other MCU Spider-Man’s supporting characters).
@@DieHardAlien plus he’s just an amalgamation of Miles’s best friend Ganke. The only problem with that is I still want Riri to be from Chicago, not New York.
i think the biggest issue for me has been how these characters aren't given their MOMENT. Aside from Ms. Marvel, none of them got their own origin. Ironheart should've been introduced in her own series or in Armor Wars, where she could've at least been involved with Tony's legacy. similarly, America should've shown up in her own movie or in something like Captain America 4, where she could be a true legacy character. like people have been saying, marvel is trying to do too many things at once (setting up kang, setting up new avengers, setting up young avengers) when they should be focusing on new stories and building up new, full characters
It can work--Hawkeye and Black Widow both debuted in other people's movies. I think the difference there is that they were just around enough to make people think "Hey, I want to know more about them.", and didn't have their entire introductory arc stuffed into someone else's film.
America Chavez is not a legacy character. Nor is she tied to Captain America in any way shape or form.
@@ChisomagaIhezie her name is america and she wears red white and blue and punches with stars... she's the captain america of the second young avengers team: leader, american, super strong
On the topic of Lunella, I'm pretty sure she was sidelined because the Moon Girl cartoon was already in the works (which is pretty good, BTW, even if it got hardly any promotion)
As a Pakistani-American, Kamala Khan and the Champions have meant a lot to me. Kamala's introduction in the MCU (and the subsequent retcons in the comics) have left me continuously disappointed (your comment about how many times she's died and come back made me 😭). Regarding the changes to her origin, I understand the good intentions of the writers to link the partition and djinn folklore to her powers. However, it also bothers me because the comics portrayed her Muslim and Pakistani identities as the most mundane parts of her life. In the MCU, she's the second Asian-American superhero, and like Shang-Chi, her existence has to be justified by linking her powers to her home culture - but unlike him, her powers were *not* linked to that *at all* in the comics. I can't help but feel an air of orientalism in the decision to alter them in the way they did. I don't want to blame the writer's room. I'm sure there was a back-and-forth about how accurate to the comics they could be (since Fiege hates Inhumans, lmao) and the options they had for changing her origin.
ETA: also, it’s just frustrating that the culturally-specific lore was immediately tossed out in the show’s end credits scene (which was added in a reshoot), so that Kamala could tie into larger universe by being a mutant. If that wasn’t the death knell for MCU Clandestines, they aren’t referenced at all in The Marvels. So, like. What was the point? To me, it further erased any possible good intentions the show could have had by making her culture a key part of her origin, if they’re not even going to play a role in the larger universe.
Also, I read comic Clandestines a couple years ago out of curiosity. they are textbook orientalist appropriations of djinn lore who are nothing like their MCU adaptation (it is basically Percy Jackson but two white kids realize they’re djinns). It just feels weird to use one of the very few Muslim characters in Marvel with no problematic backstory to rehab that brand for a modern audience (and then not tie them into anything else).
They did Kamala dirty due to the Inhumans show failing which was a self-sabotaged effort. Instead of her now being an Inhuman, they DID pull an orientalism then retconed that to mutant/typical space Mcguffin junk. It's that bad yet that what happens when you change thing on the fly and clearly have ZERO direction beside carpet bombing of content where it's all connected yet at the same time feels vapid. Like you can skip a lot and not miss much. Yet this is the thing comic heads been warning people about Marvel does characters dirty now for no reason while thinking they did nothing wrong.
@@ExeErdna It's a mixture of both wanting to have the mutants within the movies and unnecessarily giving her another connection to Carol, so The Marvels once again could exist. Kamala's entire show had no other purpose than to prepare her for that goddamn movie.
@@proto245 That's what people are picking up on. Movies are tie-ins for shows and vice versa. So nothing feels "finished". These ventures are basically VERY expensive episodes to long drawn out, interconnected soap opera. Yet even the OG soaps established characters better.
Honestly Kamala khan is an annoying character 😂😂 it's like they trying to make her like Spiderman where she talks a lot during fights n she's oh my gosh 🤦♀️ she's like the flash, she's super annoying
@@zanelefukuthwa Read G Willow Wilson's Ms Marvel run. I'm talking about how they adapted that.
5:17 I cannot stress enough the “plenty still do” part. I’ve seen in the last two months people call Miles a “pander-verse Spider-Man”, even though the very same South Park episode actually defended Miles as a character. I seen people call him a “usurper” to the Spider-Man legacy. I even seen some people straight up deny that he’s Spider-Man, & purposely call him Miles Morales. Not because it’s his actual name, but to refuse his acknowledgment as Spider-Man. It’s similar to how people called Obama “Mr. Obama” & not President because they refused to acknowledge him as president. Now it’s even more apparent that they don’t like or want him due to his growing popularity because of the films. I know that might be a reach, but it’s just something I’ve notice.
Which is why he exists, to prove to people we are all capable of anything. Isn't that ironic lmao
Not a reach, even a little.
Such a wild concept to me because it’s like… they really don’t care at all if they change their names, their back story, their age - but don’t dare think about changing the skin color? Could they be more apparent?
Considering how they hated of Spider Woman, the fandom is still racist.
I mean I feel like that crowd is few and far between, and most people just ignore them now that Miles has such a grand debut and follow up like Spiderverse 1 and 2. They don’t feel near as prevalent as they did in like, 2016.
Also on the topic of superhero titles, if they’re the only Spiderman in their universe/story, I get it. However, I wish all the spidermen had their own unique titles because it can get really confusing (not because of anyone ‘usurping’ the title).
There’s a good video on here talking about this (Should Legacy Characters get their Own Names by Nando Cut). Characters either getting their own name (Robin-Nightwing) or inheriting the mantle (Laura X-23 becoming Wolverine) and then the mentor also just get their own name (Logan/Old Man Logan).
I honestly hadn’t thought of America Chavez as a legacy character for Captain America (despite America literally being her name Lol), because I thought she was so wholly original. Thanks for helping me see that! :) I was disappointed that seemingly half of her dialogue in her debut film amounted to her “screaming in pain,” according to the captioning.
She was introduced as a helpless little girl. Rather than a badass 18yr old with experience os fighting and protecting herself. I guess there's chance to develop her but her character presence feels weak and her acting did seem very amateur for a big MCU movie.
I always associated Patriot as a legacy character for Cap, rather than America
that’s cause she isn’t a legacy character
@@Maybeitsmicah yeah, she isn't.
Personally I wouldn't have minded seeing America Chavez first appear in the Loki series. partially this is just because I mostly know her from the Young Avengers were her dynamic with Kid Loki is really great. But also that way you could maintain her confidence by having her act as a knowledgeable guide to the multiverse. Think Mobius but more explaining alternative universes than just time travel stuff and also more willing to kick Loki into orbit if he pisses her off too much.
That would have made too much sense.
Love the video, definitely been feeling all of this too. It feels so obvious that they're only giving us more female and minority lead characters after the first phase was fully over (not even giving us a Black Widow solo until AFTER SHE DIED) because they didn't want the ~risk~ in phase one. That would be its own issue worth examination, but to have all of these movies and shows also be significantly worse quality just feels like they think they can get away with throwing scraps? It just feels so insulting that they expect us to be headempty "mmm yummy thank you for the RepresentationTM!" We can SEE you can do better, stop trying to hedge your investments just because the angry corner won't watch the movie lmao
They're going all in on pissing that side of the fanbase off yet it's just piling on content that isn't as good as they think it is. Then it poisons the well for next piece. IMO MCU couldn't really handle power levels rights in live-action, yet ALL the really powerful characters been women and they've all got done dirty. Like this whole ERA could have made Scarlet Witch the villain since seriously Kang was always lame. Yet seeing a hero turn villain for a good reason and then being a constant threat would have been interesting. Yet their problem is killing off villains when they don't need to do that. It's COMICS don't kill, you don't need to. They killed so many villains they've backed themselves into a corner where now they REALLY cannot screw up. If they're gonna bring in Dr. DOOM if it ain't top tier, petty, baggard that can back up everything he says. People are gonna be done with the MCU
I've def had run ins with those "headempties".
@@ExeErdnaHeck, Kang was so lame, I would’ve wanted him retconned into being a Mojoverse jobber villain for Longshot.
@@christopherbennett5858 They missed used him, they should have treated him like a Watcher just have him in key scenes in the background and have nobody acknowledge he's there. THAT'S how Kang works. Yet MCU doesn't understand power, outside of brutishness.
@@ExeErdna 100%. I love Kang, but it would've been better to have him as a background character similar to how Thanos was treated throughout the first era. I mean like the MCU seem to be working towards an "Young Avengers"-type of movie (which I know will be shit and my 2014-self would be even more disappointed than my 2023-self). Because like (spoilers for a 2005-2006 comic run) hello! Iron Lad!
Shuri is honestly my favorite MCU legacy character followed by Kamala.
Wakanda Forever, despite its flaws, told a very compelling story of an ingenious talented black woman struggling with loss, grief, imposter’s syndrome, and anger. The BP mantle wasn’t meant for her and yet she reluctantly took it.
She became one of the most compelling characters in a franchise where those are becoming hard to come by. I hope they figure out a good story for her going forward.
I am so scared that was the last time they give her respect... the stuff the actress keeps saying is getting wilder lol. I don't see them letting her be in the 616 Illuminati for example, even though it should be her, Strange, Hank, Monica etc
@@nailinthefashion Anytime we say they should've recast T'Challa people jump on our heads but what you just said further proves why it might have been so important: I honestly don't believe most from the original BP film are anywhere near as committed if in fact interested at all now that Chadwick (RIP) is gone. To me, Letitia Wright was just going through the motions in the last film and will be doing more of the same in the following sequel. The fans didn't notice in the last film because we along with the cast/crew were still in grief mode; the third time out I feel it would be more pronounced and infuriating to most...
@@dawb86 I disagree and think pivoting into Shuri early was the smarter decision. You'd have to be an omega level telepath to know they're just going thru the motions when BP2 was actually beautiful, visually and metaphorically. Shuri always becomes the next BP, so for there to be a grounded real world circumstance actually added a lot of gravity to it that I appreciated.
What I fear is that that was her most noble moment, and that they'll spotlight Riri in her place in BP3, having Shuri sacrifice herself to save Azari. I'd licherally scream if Riri was on the Illuminati instead of Shuri. Stuff like that is where I think they'll fumble.
To recast is so cheap and hollow, that's going thru the motions to me. "We got another straight masculine black male, don't worry!" Like with Kang. They better take another big swing
@@nailinthefashion They've already lost a lot of the Black audience emotionally for the immediate firing of Jonathan Majors if u ask me. BP/T'Challa is too iconic and monumental a figure to just end that particular character's saga that soon. Like I said, I understand the grief the team suffered because as fans we all felt it as well but Marvel/Disney made the wrong decision to do that and could've handled it in such a way that we the audience would've understood and stayed on for the ride with someone new. Look at the films now: No Michael B. Jordan, Angela Bassett, Chadwick, Forrest Whitaker. No one's even paying attention that the third installment (assuming there is one) won't have half the people we were drawn to come and see in the first place. That along with a, fine I'll digress and say, "potentially disinterested/unmotivated" lead performer to now feel she almost forcefully has to try and uphold a franchise solo could spell disaster to what once seemed like the brightest spot in the future of the MCU...
@@dawb86 what a wild comment lmao. The brightest spot? Just cuz you relate to the black characters that much more? I meaaaannnn... wowowow. At least your bias is tattooed on your forehead.
Let me stop you right there cuz only toxic people are defending Majors or are that invested in him to drop Marvel for him lol. Both parties were at fault, just like Depp and Heard I think neither deserve our attention or defense. Good riddance 🤷🏾♂️ next time I hope he walks away and buys a new phone. The cloud exists for a reason.
I'm not sure if Letitia even was the right pick to begin with sp to say she's holding that franchise up singlehandedly is kinda default to me. Whoever came after Tchalla would be doing that, like I get what you mean since they were such powerhouses but at the same time, Black Panther is gonna Black Panther regardless of who's in the suit. We are past the zenith, and that's okay
I will die mad about what the mcu did to america chavez. She’s such a great character in the comics and they did her SO dirty
Very wrong imo. Couldn't even make her afro latina like she was in the comics. First, red flag for me.
native american is the new favourite child of MCU
even though I want the mcu to crumble inward on its own hubris, I still love the legacy characters in the comics and you totally hit the nail on the head for how they handled their film introductions! justice for America Chavez (and for the 2020 babysitter's club)!!!!! also no hate to Iman but I wish they kept Kamala's og powers bc I feel like those stretchy, strange, body-part-growing powers had (and always will have) great potential for coming-of-age stories re:metaphors for puberty. great video as always
I don't want the company to fail. I want the old straight white guys who don't read comics out. Perlmutter ruined what could have been the most inclusive franchise ever for like what? Decades? Lmao
And the reason they changed her powers is because it's not cinematic enough... I dunno if this is a dig at Mr fantastic but DAYUM
@@GenJuhru Which is weird if you look at the video game--okay, it wasn't that good, but Kamala's powers are certainly cinematic there.
@@nailinthefashion yeah but the Whitewashing towards Romani and Jewish characters. Mistreatment towards queer characters. Nahh I don’t trust them…
That ain’t just Pearlmutter fren
@@rezza_lynsaii oh no, I don't want to argue about integrating those concepts into every interation of the characters, cuz I don't think it's necessary when the rights and timelines were so messed up. Maybe post Secret Wars I'd be looking for that kind of puritanical levels of adaptation but rn my expectations for fidelity are reasonably low. I agree with you about how those are the best variants so far though.
Like I didn't expect Multiverse of Madness to actually House of M/Decimation us, just a taste. Perhaps Age of Ultron messed with her head and she doesn't remember her true origin yet.
I didn't expect the Foxmen or Apocalypse to go with such a hard hitting, somber backstory but maybe in Xmen 97 there will be new variants.
But even if they decide to not explore those variants I think those characters can be done with grace. After seeing Kahhori though I just feel like they're going in the right direction
This whole situation with the legacy characters in Marvel is just a perfect illustration as to why Disney shouldn't own EVERY SINGLE MAJOR cultural and creative property on the planet. They have a cookie cutter formula that they use to flatten and water down every story that they try to tell. They have so many genuinely interesting characters and so many diverse messages that can be shared with the world but we're never going to be able to experience them, at least not in any film capacity. It's such a shame that Disney believes that their audiences don't want to engage with cinema in a meaningful way. Most people's introduction to these legacy characters will be through one of these bullshit films and it will likely turn them away from any of their stories that are actually worth checking out.
Some people didn' believe me when I told them IRL that Disney is scared of themselves. They made stuff so unironically safe that minor expressions of violence, blood and gore send people into the "Ohh shit they can do it" yet you see with other projects it's still safe. Echo may get Netfilx dark yet we don't know yet. Anothr problem is that the MCU went cosmic too soon and IMO cosmic marvel is too much for the MCU to handle. Can't be handled like a street level story. Guardians got really lucky out here. Yet Capt/Marvels they skipped so much BOTH movies would have been better as shows.
@@ExeErdnaHonestly, I do get you there.
Cosmic and especially multiverse are hard to do without precedent.
My hot take? I think the MCU should've closed out with Endgame, and then do a reboot of the franchise. One of the major problems with the MCU is that there are a lot more moving parts that people have to keep up with, including watching Disney+ shows. A lot of which, to be honest, aren't that good thanks to shit like having no showrunners. Casual moviegoers don't have that sort of time and energy to do that anymore. Just doing a giant reboot, and creating more self contained projects afterwards could've prevented a lot of the issues that it's having now, including introducing new characters. Endgame would've been the best point to bookend the whole thing.
I do think that the concept of ending the MCU after endgame is kind of naïve. The studios knew exactly what they were doing when they took on adapting comic books. They knew from the gecko that comic books, specifically, DC and Marvel, are never ending. Therefore giving them an endless supply of “content”. However, I do appreciate that you have an alternative instead of just ending it. I’m personally on the fence about a reboot, but I get the argument
@@mizushogun A reboot would have been better than what they're failing to do now. MCU SHOULD have ended at Endgame then skipped like 10-15 years start fresh post blip WHILE acknowlging that the blip happened. Since one problem wih the MCU is the strong lack of the people aspect. It's so "hero" focused it ignores how the people are living.
As long as I get to keep Guardians 3 you can do whatever with everything else they've made since Infinity War.
I honestly think it should've been some relative mix. If Phases 1-3 were the Infinity Saga, then that needs to be a book that gets closed for Phases 1-3 of the "Multiverse Saga" or whatever name they might've gone with if it was thought through more. It needed to be a full story with key points throughout, to culminate to something larger like w the Infinity Saga. Not completely divorced from the original set, but separated enough that you were not required to watch 26 movies before passing go to collect $200. There could be character continuations, or references, but they needed to go back to square one of storytelling like they did in Phase 1 of the IS. And that's likely why they feel like with every new movie they have to create another unsolvable world-ending problem, each time making it feel more and more obvious that these would be Avengers-level threats if they were made 10 years ago, and not the job of a teenager that can swing around, or Ant-Man for gods sake(I thought that movie would be way more abt the community? But no he had to walk in to go solo hand to hand with literal Kang?).
@@Code_Dee Gaurdians 3 was written and done before Endgame and was delayed years because they knee jerk fired James Gunn, so there was never a need to worry about it and it kind of explains why it was the only consensus well received movie post endgame doesn''t it.
Just remember, I was born in 1962 and have been collecting and reading comics since 1969. These are literal numbers. When Marvel comics first came on the scene, they were different. DC and other comic companies were doing pretty much the same thing. Every character was a Superman or a Batman, some of them really dumb, some interesting. But Marvel comic had that "this is happening in the real world" feeling. Every comic from back then are not highly classic collector's items. Let's not also forget that the X-Men, in their 1st series, was so unpopular they began to reprint their earlier issues in renumbered comics. So issue 88 was actually a reprint of issue 20. What Dave Cockcrum and Lein Wein did was update and diversity the concept. And it was new and fresh and for over 100 issues it could do no wrong. This is what happens to comics, and this is what's happening with comic movies. Sooner or later the "new-ness" rubs off. The comic companies are scrabbling to stay relevant. DC refused to have any real continuity for years, then blew up their whole comic line in a Crisis just to get on board with comic continuity. Marvel began to print multiple series of their popular comics. At one point there were six Spider-Man title, almost 10 X-Men titles, three Avengers Titles. And for the most part the shelves were crowed and for the most part they sucked. Remember, this was the era they thought having a villain drug and molest Carol Danvers so she could have him as a bady. This was the era they introduced Rogue by having her completely steal Carol's powers and then be stuck with them for most of her life as an X-Man. (I never liked that story, it had so many problems.) Remember, at one point Image comics was new and fun and exciting. Then the new-ness was over and people realized that the writing in all those #1 image books was the worse. When Iron Man hit the scene Marvel did something that felt new and fresh. Between Iron Man and Endgame they had new and fresh. Now Endgame is over and the new-ness is over. Add that to the horrible racism and sexism characters of color have to face, and you've got a recipe for some bad times, until they stop, take a breath and try something new. It's how comics go.
I actually disliked everything, literally everything, after Iron Man 1 up until Infinity War. They were fun to pass the time but Marvels is my #1, Strange 2 is #2. Hahaha, the new newness is my ish
The problem is they've done everything outside screw X-Men up well... HAVE their turn at screwing X-Men up. They really can't do "secret empire" they COULD setup Battleworld in the MCU next. Yet Marvel is legit repeating the problems they had in the 90s and now there's a bunch of indies having their "Image" moments.
@@ExeErdna Secret Empire was a bad idea that they should have dropped in two issue. Like One More Day and Maximum Clonage. If you've never heard of or read Maximum Clonage, don't. Your life, brain and soul will be better for it.
It needed to be said greed crushed the creative spirit that these films used to have. Some of these legacy characters are being written so thinly i would've mistook this for a sitcom (obviously not all sitcoms do that). It's really frustrating to watch a character that has so much potential as Riri or America get done so dirty
you really hit the nail on the head when you said comic book and comic book movie fans (myself included) have always been in denial about the corporate schlock they would turn into (and to some degree have always been), until it became undeniable. egg on our face indeed
As a new MCU fan, this blindsided me and should have known better. Most franchises get ruined in the end.
I honestly don't understand the stupid choice to give MCU Kamala such an overcomplicated backstory. Just have her get hit by some fancy gas in the pilot that gives her superpowers then just leave it a mystery for the rest of the season. If people like the other inhumans stuff you start throwing down later on you can retcon it terigen mist if not then just have it be some random superpower giving chemical as a nod to old school comics. Heck the comics didn't even feel the need to establish what gave her powers until she was already an established hero it really doesn't have to be that important. Man I miss the days of the old Netflix MCU where they could just have Jessica Jones have powers and that be a secondary concern to the actual plot.
Here's a hot take straight from the 90's: the problem with Legacy Characters in the MCU is simply that Marvel shouldn't have legacy characters in the first place! Legacy characters are a DC thing. Marvel characters are supposed to have their own identity. And if a new character does put on the costume of an established hero, its meant to be temporary, and the replacement gets his/her own identity once the replacement-story is finished. I.E. replacement-Iron-Man fights on as War Machine, and replacement-Captain-America is forever known as USAgent.
Usagent was terrible though let's be honest.
"Good luck with not making Kamalas powers not look creepy in live action." So did we all just forget the early 2000s Fantastic Four movies?
8:50 this is why I’ve enjoyed What If so far, since it’s animated they’ve had a lot more flexibility to have a range of characters appear and make the world feel more interconnected.
You can tell that if Disney wanted to try with a Legacy character they could and Yelena and Kate are the perfect examples. Kate and Yelena were both given ample screentime and plot momentum to be important to the narratives not just for themselves but for the characters they are taking the mantles from. Blackwidow and Hawkeye were perfect mantle 'givin' (I don't know lol) characters because they were always side characters in a larger ensemble that only recently got their own solo stories. So when audiences were introduced to their protege's it felt fresh and new as we were meeting new characters and seeing a different side to characters who have predominantly been in the background. The amount of care and effort given to Kate and Yelena was never going to be extended to characters like Kamala and RiRi.
When they introduce the X-Men, I don't want them to treat mutants as this new thing. I want the people in-universe to already know what mutants are, it's just we, the audience, haven't seen it.
Also, no Dark Phoenix Saga
@@orenthall We know they're gonna try it and it isn't gonna be good, yet I'll be like 45-50 by that point
That's kinda dumb though, Vision spoke of the meta human population growing exponentially AFTER Iron Man (2008), so it doesn't make any sense for a whole section of the population to be metahumans all along, esp when some of them can control the weather or control magnetism
Honestly, I have enjoyed most of the legacy characters, I just wish we got to know America Chavez a bit more. I know they’re going to a Young Avengers or Champions, or something with the kids.
Edit: Yeah, the reason why they are overwhelming us is because they’re greedy. Greed is great to undermine any project.
Multiverse of Madness is my 2nd fave MCU movie after Marvels, but it still did one of my least favourite movie tropes, left us with the version of America we actually wanna know.
So many origins don't fully rev the engine before the credits hit, which is why Iron Man still slaps for me and is my #3. We got range
@@nailinthefashionI’m still calling this whole period MCU’s transitional phase but it’s messier and longer than I thought it would be, but then again I didn’t see certain things coming.
Champions would be a nice idea but I would both like and worry for whether or not they put Dust on it
At this point, I wonder why the writers do not invent their own super heroes, that they can then design to work well on screen, instead of digging out some comic book characters that lack the name recognition to bring in enough of an audience on that, alone, and that need to be changed significantly from the source to be adapted to film.
In the movies industry is because of executives who only wants "established" properties and things, to keep "safe"
@@irinaiturri and how's that working out for the biggest brand in hollywood? they can't see when it's time to deviate from the formula.
Yeah the big problem with this phase of the MCU is putting too much priority on the interconnected structure of the MCU at the expense of individual characters or stories, with Multiverse of Madness being maybe the worst victim. Every show and movie has had so many external story requirements that there was very little room for their creators to be creative. Instead of being a framework to build on, the MCU has become a box they have to fit into.
I feel about the MCU the same way I came to feel about comics and network television; if the primary goal of your project is to get me to buy the next project, then you have no reason to tell a real satisfying story and instead are just going to keep giving me “stories” that are all fluff and promising that next book, next season, next movie will actually be the meat.
Well, I’m done with that, I’m done with Marvel, and Gunn’s new DC has the shortest leash possible before I give up on it too (it is getting some consideration only because I like Gunn as a filmmaker, and the comic the upcoming Supergirl is based on is amazing science fantasy in a way that we don’t generally get on the big screen). Support independent filmmakers and those who actually have a story to tell, not corporations who just want to keep you watching for one more month.
To be fair, apparently the creators wanted Kamala to be a mutant originally but had to make her an Inhuman because Disney was trying to push them at the time.
She was created right around the time Disney had them do the mutants vs inhumans event. Apparently the Fox contract stated that they had access to all mutants regardless of when they were created so it makes sense they tried to lean in to making everyone an inhuman (including Quake-she was a member of SHIELD so Disney got to keep her.
I dont call Riri Williams, Kamala Khan and America Chavez like "Legacy", are more like unpopular characters.
I think the most damning thing about the MCU in it's current incarnation is the rumours regarding the return of Tony and Steve. Their inflated salaries would only damn whichever movie they came to since the focus would be on these personalities. It marks the transition to the young avengers as an after thought, and it treats the fans of any kind of media as unthinking consumers. People loved the MCU when it made good movies and Marvel-fatigue exists solely when the work is dry and barren.
I don't mind small introductions for legacy Characters, but they need their own Origin Movies people need the chance to get excited about them.
They did it right with Falcon in Cap America 2. Which means his evolution and growth is earnt. Falcon is finally getting his own movie after having a Disney plus series. That makes sense. They fudged Wanda though. America should have been teased in loki first. Riri should have been teased in phase 3. Ms Marvel could have bumped into Peter Parker or Kate Bishop since she's in New York. It wouldn't have been hard. But no they shoehorn instead. Very sad.
My biggest concern with the legacy characters is the problem of miscasting, colorism, and whitewashing. In the case of Wiccan and Speed, I don't want to see the roles played by actors who are not Jewish and/or Romani. I'm not interested in watching Ms. America, and I believe that the casting directors are to blame for their choices. However, I am also questioning the decision of the actress who accepted a role that shouldn't have gone to her.
Yeah.
Frankly, I’m annoyed when that happens.
Sunspot was probably the worst offender because the director of New mutants thought a white Brazilian kid would be more convincing to say he’s rich:
Which, if you know Sunspot’s character, as well as that statement being the worst, is awful.
Fr 🗣️
What they’re doing to Wiccan god….. It sounds hella messy and antisemitic I hear. The constant whitewashing towards Jewish/Romani characters is ridiculous. Yet they keep doing it.
Its crazy that Elijah Bradley has been so underused that there is not even a segment about him. That's how forgotten he's been in the MCU even though he's a huge asset in the Kang arc in the comics. Which is one of the reasons why I was happy to have the Kang arc once he was introduced. And so many characters haven't even been introduced yet.
Out of all of them introduced Khamala has had more time to develop and the actress was able to get more in the eye to be a public darling like the counterparts before her. The clandestine is a disconnected tissue. Also I don't mind the power change because no one complains about Miles Morales power change. Because his powers are more cinematic than his comic book counter parts. So I get it the powers look like trash. But I feel like the powers of being from a generational power pain and using it as a strength is a stronger story than "Weird brown girl is weird just cause"
Yes. Eli. Patroit. One of the founding members of YA and you hear nothing about him. Nothing.
Idk about the Miles part. He can literally make electric swords and shiii now
@@quietman208 Yeah that's in the video games.But in the comics miles had venom powers. He would just touch people and people would fall down because of the venom. That isn't very cinematic compared to his now electric powers.
Because he would be a young black man leading a team. Dis-nazi-ey doesn't want that. Guaranteed something will happen with Anthony Mackie and Captain America 4s production to make sure black men aren't seen as proper heroes.
@@ladyaema no the electric sword is literally from the comics
To use Miles as an example in legacy characters in comics is honestly a poor choice. His comics introduction was so badly done that he became spiderman without having a single interaction with Peter. Peter was dead and his whole understanding of Peter's motivations was Gewn (I think it was her in the ultimate universe?) saying a completely random kid in his funeral what it was. Racism may be a reason for some people, but not for the majority of people. Spiderverse fixed Miles horrendous introduction in comics, but Miles is actually an example of how not do an intrudction for a legacy character.
Honestly, comic Miles has the same problem you pointed out in some cases here, he had zero interaction with Peter, Spiderman died and then he was introduced, even Dr. Strange had more interactions with his legacy character than Peter had with Miles.
It's a good thing that the comics it's not the first introduction of many people to Miles. Thanks the video games and movies that fixed his story, it is so badly done in the comics.
My boy, 9, first got introduced to Kamala Khan through the Avengers *video game.* The only good part of that game was that it put Kamala front and center and seeing her grow was awesome. When we saw her in theaters (he liked the first episode of the TV show, but it was too slow for him,) he was so excited, and afterwards we had a great long talk about how fun it was to see her on screen. And, ultimately, how it would have been nice to see her more!
All that is to say, you are 100% right and it's a goddamn shame that people can't give Kamala, or Riri, or America, or anyone a shot because the onboarding is serving two masters. If they just told a story, told their stories, then it could be another Miles Morales situation. And you are 100% right, I still remember being so bitter at seeing people tear apart Miles at the start. I don't think it's gotten better since then.
Anyways, always very thoughtful and well put together, thank you for your hard work, I just wanted to share that there are young fans coming up and they are eager for some next gen, but it'll take some work to get more on the train.
The comics with those girls haven't been good. There's GOOD reason why people dislike them and how they were handled. Honestly the reason why Miles got over because Spider-verse is BETTER than how they added him to the 616.
MCU Wanda was done dirty, everything she went through just to turn her BACK into the villain. I had such high hopes for her story and DS2 became just a Scarlet Witch fan service power trip/ad-space for possible spinoffs.
I’ve been reading comics for 25 years and I just kinda accept the new characters as they come 😂 l liked May Parker and I don’t see her anywhere anymore
That's because they openly hate Mayday Parker. It's legit a canon plot that Mayday cannot be born because it means the end of Mephisto. Yet that would also mean Peter is floating 50 and the 616 has to progress their timeline outside of their stagnated time flux where they can keep stacking events yet little to not real time as passed like the last 30 or so years happened in like 5 years times if that
I watched this early but just commenting to say that a couple years ago I was genuinely excited for the possibility of a young avengers group, the idea of America Chavez and Kamala khan and Riri Williams and Kate bishop in the MCU was a big deal for me bc I love these characters, even with some of their problems in the comics. Now seeing their lackluster introductions, I feel the missed potential. Genuinely, not having America Chavez interact w Steve and Riri interact w/ Tony before their departures is such a weird choice. And you make a good point abt Miles not always having been so popular, I’m just glad his movies have been such a success. He feels so well-realized in a way these other legacy characters aren’t.
The problem with legacy/slant characters isn't that they don't have decades of established narrative but really deal with the terrible character's presentation and writing prowess. The manga and anime scenes always pull newer stories and adapt them well (Most of the time) and adapt them well because they actually put effort into creating interesting characters.
Yes, unfortunately the people of USA become hostage of this mentality of dependency of only a handful of large franchises and that almost only in these old and big franchises is possible to gain representation using the concept of legacy characters. The creative market of USA is horrible in this regard to many kinds of media
Not really, there are lots of manga characters detested by the fans
@@ShadowSonic2 and other lots of characters loved by fans
The RiRi situation has ALWAYS made me upset. I really enjoyed her character in the movie but whew when they had the suit appear I was big mad. And then to make it seem so thinly referencing Ironman 1 with when he flew his suit for the first time was embarrassing. It felt completely disrespectful to her character and like a cheap knockoff, which is what people were always going to say anyhow so thank you Disney.
I have beef with the Wanda movie because she was also my favorite supervillain. There is no one topping her to me lol. So, that whole movie is unspeakable to me. And then the aspects of horror, from a film perspective, that were clearly diluted either out of pressure or lack of time was just an even bigger bust. Her horror mirror scene is the only good thing that came out of that movie. America as a result was just a complete loss. Like, I already knew to give up expectations when I realized she was in a Doctor Strange movie and Doctor Strange was just empty already. Most of his character development had been on hold for waaaaay too long to suddenly try and add nuance.
Kamala is great but I'm one of the blessed. I never read the comics and I have yet to see Marvels since I'm waiting until DIsney Plus. The complete ignorance helps. P.S I still enjoy Captain America the most. It's up there with Ironman, GoG2, Thor 3, etc. . . but like idk that old 1920s movie aesthetic gets me every time. And somehow also makes me nostalgic for Hellboy(2004) in a good way.
Legacy characters to me are a celebration of what has come before and what we are progressing towards.
The first time i read about variants and how we could all be Iron Man, i was hooked. There's nothing more inspiring in life for me than the idea that I'm not limited to being Prodigy, i could be anyone in the story and it's not just my imagination, but on the page.
That's what comics are for, imo. To empower, encourage, unify.
If anyone could be special, No one is. The ISSUE is the West are to obsessed with the BRAND, they forgot to write CHARACTERS. You don't see that in Tokusatsu, however. Especially in the Henshin Hero genre. That's why you see many different Kamen Riders, Many Ultraman and Ultrawoman, each having different names and personalities. Unlike Marvel and DC where they slap anyone as Batman and Spider-Man just because.
*PSA: No specific shade or hate for characters of any race/sexuality/gender, just clinical observations of the market audience as both a film enthusiast and former comic book reader*
I think the things we're refusing to acknowledge are that
1) a lot of these Legacy characters were and/or are not received well in comics, so their film adaptations without notable changes won't be either. Let's not pretend Ms. Marvel, America Chavez, Riri Williams, Mighty Thor, etc are flying off the shelves. Rather, their books regularly get canceled. Pretty sure Kamala Khan just died in comics, and in Peter Parker's book, not even her own, and no one cares. I think she has a game out too, and again, very little fanfare. And Miles Morales is popular because he has found a NEW audience through cinema and video games. His books aren't written better or different, and continue to underperform and/or outright flop
2) their film adaptations are into a currently dying franchise/genre
3) they're all young girls and/or queer when the vast majority of the paying audience for comics and their cinematic universes to this day are straight males (and females, to a much smaller extent). It's a power fantasy; men want to live vicariously through them, straight women like looking at them, if they show up for a CBM at all
4) they're not adapting the women or POC that people DO care about. MCU needs the X-Men because most of the beloved Marvel female characters are from those comics, like Storm, Rogue, Jubilee, Mystique, Emma Frost, Kitty Pride, etc. DC has all my favorite POC characters, like Static, Icon, Vixen, John Stewart Green Lantern, Steel, Cyborg, etc
5) if you adapt an openly queer character, the budget will have to be scaled down (if they are not part of an ensemble team-up) to reflect the size of the receptive audience. Bros, the gay romcom flop, failed because it forgot that romcoms are a dead genre and specifically target STRAIGHT women. Why the hell was it over 20 million with no handsome star power? Even Brokeback Mountain was made for cheaper at 14M, and that had big stars like Jake Gyllenhaal, Heath Ledger, Michelle Williams and Anne Hathaway. Similarly, you don't center gay characters for the core demographic of straight males at 200-300 MILLION that needs worldwide (most of whom are conservative) audiences to turn a profit.
6) Race/gender/sexuality swapping is rejected by most fans. Don't expect people who've read Superman for almost a century or watched him since the Donner films in the 70s/80s readily accept a black Clark Kent/Superman movie like Ta-Nehisi Coates keeps trying to get greenlit. Especially when ICON AND STEEL EXIST FFS. General audiences will be more forgiving, but only if it's GOOD, and as mentioned in the video, MCU is struggling to realize ORIGINAL POC/queer characters for the big screen, never mind messing with classic iconography.
*PSA: AGAIN, NO HATE FOR DIFFERENT KINDS OF CHARACTERS. But we have to be realistic about the audiences for these characters as well*
This is 100% One point. IMO all the blame that the chud are racist I'm like the CREATORS and PEOPLE IN CHARGE are racist/sexist. Since we could be eating GOOD. Yet they want "tell their story" Fuck that I wanna see Storm having a knife fight with Callisto in the sewer over Angel. I wanna see Static dealing with the social and ecological disater which was The Big Bang and how he's dealing with grief as he was gonna kill somebody that night the Bang happened. We could have had a SOLID Cyborg movie, we could being Shaq back as the father of the new John Henry in Steel movie.
Yet again one point a lot of these legacy characters don't have good comics it isn't the "chuds" fault since these so-called fans aren't buying it either. People are trying to tell the truth that something is wrong yet it gets deflected. It took South Park making those episodes to make people wake the hell up.
DC/Marvel can do SO BETTER, yet we get what we get
Yeah, the inconvenient truths that most progressives don't like to see. It's necessary to understand this facts to be capable of create or adapt with more qualitiy female/POC/queer characters
In fact is better for us to seek what genres and trends will rise in Hollywood (and other areas of entertainment) and create better things after learn the mistakes made during the "corporative woke" craze
Having Riri Williams have a "next time, baby" sort of moment would've worked a lot better
Honestly, the writing has been on the wall that they aren't going to do any legacy characters good when they consciously chose to adapt the worst version of Captain Marvel to the big screen.
Carol Danvers herself is a legacy character and the way they treated her in the comics, especially coming off of her time as Miss Marvel, is horendous. For some reason, they turned her into literally every bad white woman stereotype after she took on the mantle of Captain Marvel after the previous one died. Fairly certain it was her husband Mar-Vell, but I could be wrong because continuity isn't comics' strong suit.
For heaven's sake, she literally kicked off the Civil War storyline herself due to what basically boils down to her wanting to kill a black kid so that he wouldn't grow up and possibly commit crimes...
The writers of these fillms don't read comics. Entire characters are props/plot devices. Its pretty lame actually.
I hope this includes discussion regarding the recent "synergy" retcons for America and Kamala in the comics because GIRL DO I HAVE SOME THOUGHTS
What had happm babe?? I've been waist deep in nothing but Xmen
oh mood, haha, what's going on in the comics has become such a sad thing honestly 😅 I feel bad for Kamala fans, oncluding myself, for ever thinking Marvel actually cares about this character specifically.
for all the problems with the Kamala retcon, I think it was handled about as well as it could've been in the "Ms. Marvel: The New Mutant" miniseries, given the constraints the series had to work with.
@Patrick-jd1ku It's hard not to read that mini as Iman deliberately pushing back against the contrived synergy, especially the dream sequence where Kamala refuses to embrace the fake mutant power entity implanted by Orchis, embodied by glowing purple energy
@@4nnih6Feel bad for any marvel character then cause the only ones who never get mistreated are the ones who never appear.
I believe they should've introduced Riri as one of the students working closely with Stark in his internship program, or they can just go with that moving forward, so that they have some sort of established history/mentorship together
This is so good Princess!! Thank you for the early view and everything else over on Patreon!
I agree so much with this. I will add it really feels like the female characters and most the characters of colour weren't treated with the same care and respect that the original white male characters were and it's sort of depressing because they could be truly phenomenal.
That being said, Kate Bishop in Hawkeye was awesome, as was the introduction of T'Challa.
And some of their "newer" introductions just aren't interesting.
It's because they're too busy presenting a show to tell a story. A lot of Pre-Endgame stuff were some solid movies on their own. Now they have to connect the current thing to the next thing whomever or whatever happens in the middle doesn't matter like that. Hope they show up again in the next 3-10 years...
@@ExeErdna Honestly they just keep messing up. It should be a wrap lol
I can’t deal with their whitewashing towards romani and jewish characters.
The thing that has boggled my mind the most and to me this is like a great symptom for what this video is talking about is that Shang-Chi came out. Everyone loved this movie. When loved the main character, everyone loved the new aspects of the MCU that they built. Everyone loved the tasteful representation even with the flaws. It's a good, amazing ass foundation to build off of. And considering that this was one of the first films in phase 4, especially with Eternals tanking everyone immediately thought. Oh, this is going to be this arcs iron Man. This is the character we love that we're going to rally around that we think is cool and it's going to be the driving force against Kang. We're going to see him and all these extended scenes. He's going to have his own sequels and everything...and then nothing fucking happened. They had their best film yet with essentially iron Man but with actual minority representation and they went fucking nowhere with it. Or comparison? Imagine if the first iron Man movie came out and then they did all the other movies and then it wasn't until avengers Infinity War that Tony Stark shows up with the same exact plot line in that film as if nothing ever happened. Entire audience would be completely confused. And when I saw that happening, I knew that Marvel majorly fumbled somehow. Just for a record, I'm not even of East Asian descent and this bug the crap out of me. Especially because again you have white Tony Stark and they made two sequels and featured him and then we have a character occupying the same space in and time that everyone equally likes and everyone wants to be this arcs iron Man and it kind of feels like oh he's Asian so we're just not going to do anything with him. Why people get mad when Disney tries to do quote" progressive stuff because it's extremely surface level. It's a throwaway and they don't do any meaningful shit and this is a great example of it, which is why I'm not surprised that all the other characters they've done they've also completely screwed up in terms of representation.
Dr Strange and the Multiverse of Madness was where I really started to think that the MCU doesn’t care about quality anymore
America Chavez, Riri Williams, and Kamala Khan all deserved quality introductions to their characters if they are gonna be important to the franchise. And while the last two, imo, did get that time, obviously especially Ms Marvel, the portrayal of Chavez was embarrassing
I didn’t know much about the character going into the movie, but knowing what I know now, they basically did the same thing they did to Rogue in the X-Men trilogy: a walking Macguffin with no super strength, no self-confidence, and in need of a man to save her
In the case of MOM specifically, it’s to save her from a 1-dimensional psychopathic witch who was originally a complex, relatable, compelling 3-dimensional character…who became evil by unwittingly reading the wrong book
Barf
They didn't care about quality by the time Infinity War came around tbh
My stance on legacy characters is that they work best when they either have an actual connection to their predecessor, like Kamala, miles morales, robin, etc. Or when they are a completely separate reinvention of the character like hal jordan is a reinvention of alan scott and michael holt is a reinvention of terry sloan
Even if you introduce these characters "right," that contingency of grifters and their CHUDs will always hate them.
RiRi wasn't a real character until Eve L. Ewing wrote her Iron Heart series. Thank god her and Saladin Amhed got their hands on her and Miles, respectively. Also, I've been loving Ewing's work on Black Panther. Ridley lost me about 6 issues into his run.
Bendis' writing of Riri and Miles are why people hate them. Then he went to DC and made Naomi... That madman is forbidden to make black characters imo
The thing I really hate about post-Infinity War MCU and trying to introduce these legacy heroes is that they abandoned the young ABC Studios heroes. Cloak and Dagger, the Runaways (especially the Runaways, holy shit), hell even SHIELD's inhumans like Yo-Yo and Quake. Kevin Feige is too far up his own ass.
As a Puerto Rican, I will never forgive the MCU for retconning América Chávez from Afro-Puerto Rican to indigenous Mexican. It's peak "Latine people are inter changeable so let's just go with Mexican because that's what white audiences are most familiar with." I have no issues with the actress herself or Mexican characters, but they should have cast her to play a character that was ALREADY indigenous Mexican in the comics instead of retconning an Afro Boricua hero. So fucking racist to both groups to equate one with the other.
Thank god that at least Miles is being done justice (character wise) over at the Spider-verse movies, but my Puerto Rican lesbian heart weeps for what América could have been.
This. I'm all for more brown/black/red people casting. But they went "hollywood" latina for America Chavez. They could had found a afro latina. They could had but knew they wanted her fairer skin. They knew.
I'm one of those people who cosplayed America Chavez back in 2016, seeing her in MoM was so disappointing like I've never been so let down in so many ways. She's not Caribbean, she's not queer, she doesn't have darker skin or curly/coily hair. She's not connected to her moms or her team. It's just here's this teenager who doesn't know anything about herself so she can just be whatever.
Mcu went super safe on the character from looks to her mcu development.
YEP. Allan Heinberg the creator of the YA seems to be arguing with Disney
America Chavez was a massive disappointment. But I think we'd be remiss if we didnt note that Marvel has done a couple legacy characters well- namely Sam Wilson's new Captain America. Because he was estblished and got time (something I agree should have been done for Iron Heart too). Kate Bishop's new Hawkeye and Florence Pugh's new Black Widow are good also.
I like your points about Riri being introduced earlier so she and Tony can have that rapport, and Kamala's stretch powers tied to her insecurities (which of all things, the Avengers videogame does better than the actual MCU).
Shallow storytelling pretty much sums it up for each one of these. And that's what a lot of people have been saying- but they just get called haters, and "ists".
All the goofy ass retcons made to America Chavez made me uninvest in the character. America was also totally wasted in the film. She was a walking plot device.
Here! here! And to think some "comic podcasters" were so forgiven of mcu changes to the character. It's like, huh?
You are so right about the first Captain America movie. The first time I watched it, I fell asleep not long after he gets the super serum. The second time I watched up to about that point again, got bored, and went to do something else. To this day, this is the only marvel movie I've done that for.
Yep, never liked it, had a grwat character scene in it, but a boring ass movie.
When Riri "Oppress Me" Williams was in grade school, she demanded that a teacher oppress her, so the teacher sighed and said, "Alright, you can't be ... Tony Stark." That's "Oppress Me" Williams' origin story, that's the reason she does what she does, but it gets worse. Without the creativity and original thinking skills of Tony Stark, she's reliant on an AI created by Doctor Doom to teach her how to use the tech she creates, up until Doom takes back the AI and uploads it into the cybernetically enhanced corpse of Tony Stark.
Totally agree on Carol Danvers - one of the great things about Kelly Thompsons recent run was that it actually made me interested in reading her comic, which was a desire i had never felt before.
I want to validate. I like Riri and I think she added something fun in Wakanda Forever but I totally see your point especially when you bring up the Iron Heart reveal moment. It felt shoehorned in and forced, I felt annoyed when I initially saw it but I couldn’t quite but my finger on it
America Chavez and Kamala Khan were some of my favorite characters back when I read Marvel comics. It's disappointing to see how they're being handled. That said, it's not surprising considering how Marvel treats a lot of its productions (god forbid they actually give a proper budget and production timeline to anything animated; it's laughable....which can also be said for non-marvel shows like Invincible). A real shame.
Iman Vellani is amazing as Miss Marvel; but they fumbled the bag hard while changing her powers. She should have kept her powers of stretchability. They are so much fun.
Well them prioritizing the message over storytelling is what’s hurting Disney, rather going the natural storytelling route they derailed it for brownie points for Blackrock
Yep 🗣️
something i do need to articulate about Shuri in Wakanda Forever, because atheists rarely get good rep that makes a point of the character's atheism: i love that her journey never needs to collapse back into mystical spirituality. she finds a way to cope with her trauma at the end that both dovetails into the Black Panther MCU canon but also maintains and does not invalidate her own belief system.
My heart goes out to all the fans of these modern legacy characters. I was a fan of Kyle Rayner back during the original Ron Marz and Darryl Banks run and I will never forget H.E.A.T. and the moronic hatred that character received. To have that weird, nostalgia driven man-child hate and combine it with racism/sexism, that is just too much. I don't know how people put up with it.
RiRi should’ve gotten introduced in Iron Man 3 and been the kid Tony bonded with. Monica being introduced as a child in Captain Marvel was really smart but the way she was handled in WandaVision was so frustrating. She was literally a mammy and her character was fine in The Marvels but she should’ve gotten her own series on Disney+ and RiRi could’ve also been featured in that show. We could’ve seen Monica giving a seminar to MIT students about whatever and RiRi could’ve stopped afterwards and mentioned how she knew Tony since Monica could’ve mentioned some of Tony’s tech or something. The legacy characters have to be introduced alongside the original character and go on their own journey.
I had superhero fatigue after Avengers 2, especially during the Netflix era of Marvel. I was surprised how many people were still invested even leading up to End Game. I think when Ready Player One came out that I was just completely done with big cgi blockbusters, and had a whole A24/indie horror shift in my media consumption for a time. I’d see the occasional MCU movie for fun but I wasn’t invested.
Then when the Disney+ series were getting released I was completely checked out of it all at that point. It’s sad because when the 1st Iron Man came out it was so good and I was excited to see the potential of what was to come. I thought the MCU would succeed where X-men franchises failed, and it did for a while. But now they’re on the same level if not worse. I’d rather watch Wolverine fight an adamantium Samurai than watch Eternals.
I feel you have some of the greatest pacing while speaking, quick but not jumbled. Thank you for making videos
Hearing what they're trying/not trying to do with the Inhumans these days always confuses me because I thought Agents of Shield did a great job of introducing and using them, especially Daisy (played by half-Chinese actress Chloe Bennet). The way her finding out about her new powers is paired with learning about her birth parents is great, and her having a pre-existing maternal relationship with Ming-Na Wen's character to set up the emotional conflict is pure kismet. Honestly, I can't imagine why they haven't scooped any of that cast up to reprise their characters in these movies -- I imagine it's to stop people from complaining about having to watch it all, but I'd say it's worth it (if just to experience what TV used to be like before the streaming model took over).
It's because the sabotaged the Inhumans show to fail. They could the made it themelves yet left it to ABC who were super cheap with it. It's failure forced Disney to get the X-Men since they wanted Inhumans to replace them.
I just wanna say that one reason the movie theater/theater going experience is dying out is that people won’t spend any of their disposable income on movies if they don’t have any disposable income to spend. Movie theaters are ultimately a luxury expense and if people don’t get raises to match inflating housing/food/transportation costs then they will have no money left over for movies.
I think one of the biggest issues with the legacy characters is WHEN they got introduced in the MCU. We just saw a bunch of characters we cared about die/get written off & immediately after we're supposed to care about new characters that are obvious replacements? If they'd have started introducing some of these characters before Infinity War/Endgame these new characters would have at least had a fighting chance. If Riri had been the kid helping Tony in Iron Man 3 &/or a scene of Captain America or Bucky at least meeting America in passing could have changed a lot of the discourse.
They couldn't. The racist boss of the films back then was against all nonwhites and females in major roles. They couldn't do anything until he was removed from the business.
As a long time comics reader, recent legacy characters such as Marvel now initiative have not worked in the in the comics. If this has not worked in the comics, what made the MCU believe that theses characters would work in another media without any successful source material from the comics? None of these characters exist in the mcu beyond plot Device. Identity is not a character but most of the young characters introduced currently in the mcu were not asked for. As a long time reader of Marvel, the quality of writing at the company has been trash since the 2000s and this the result of the current mcu due to poor story reference material. I agree with your statement that if the character could be anyone, what's the point of these legacy characters beyond identity. Disney brought a male brand only to destroy it starting with the comics which provides the R&D for the movies. The problem with these characters is they were created with agenda. This is what happens with Disney. The mcu formula was flawed from the start like you said 1st Avenger. Disney has never known has to manage a male brand exhibit A Marvel, B starwars & C John Carter. Like with comics, when runs fall off; you move on to a better produced & written comic. I guess studios must be taught to respect the intelligence of the audience/consumer. Content does not equal quality; Ask star wars fans have that's working out Marvel.
oh thank f you are covering this, youtube keeps reccing me "mcu's Woman Problem" videos by white dudes with anime animal/furry rigs
Brooooooo I saw some black fox furry (of course its a white gyal) the other day ranting about Marvel and she had the most pick me energy I've ever felt from a channel 😭 I don't even wanna know what the basement dwellers said about the Marvels. Women bad
@K.C-2049 meanwhile, yes, I do actually want masculine women and fem men so it's not just every straight stereotype down an alphabetical list. When Valk shows up in a suit I swoon. Stoic Carol is best Carol. Wiccan is just around the riverbend and yeah ... I'm glad they're triggered lmao. It's all about execution and they're slaying
Imagine thinking that wanting good female characters and not awful ones in about sexism and racism
@@randomusername3873hun, the problem these dudes think is always that there's too many women and the women are "overpowered" and that these dudes are having trouble touching themselves to mcu movies bc the feeemales are wearing too manly or loose clothing
@@nailinthefashionValk was honestly terrible, she and Taika's other shitty characters take up too much time in Thor's stories, somehow leaving him with the least character development.
near the end of the video I thought - "why couldn't Kamala keep the stretchy powers, but her body glows wherever she uses them?" It keeps her distinct from Mr Fantastic and it keeps with the Marvels Glow FX look!
I have been saying they need to bring Loki back into the movies. Tom Hiddleston's cult of personality is why the character is so popular. Seeing him now as this omniscient time god helping the next generation would be cool. Heck they could have him and Steven be friends. It would be a hilarious contrast to how Steven treated his variant. There are too many new characters people don’t care about. They need to exist alongside the Avengers era characters so those original actors can bring in audiences.
They really slammed the door in Eli Bradley/Patriot’s face too
My personal opinion as to the problem with "legacy characters" in general seems to be that people seem to think that every fictional character is just another "Dread Pirate Robert", as in, it's a mask that can simply be passed around to anyone and everyone and ANYONE can be these characters.
But the problem with this is that, by their nature and by their actions, most people CANNOT be these characters. They might have the same problems or motivations that we have that makes us sympathize with them, but if we were really in the same position as these characters, a LOT of us would never make the same choices or personal sacrifices that they made throughout their runtimes. And so when people just try to yank the mask away and give it to someone else who didn't make any of the same sacrifices or had to make any similar hard choices, it cheapens the mantle that they are desperately trying to claim is meant for everyone and water down the "legacy" that they're trying to build.
Fantastic video. Points were made. In fact, you helped me realize another issue with how the MCU is handling legacy characters: mainly, they don't know which legacy characters count now.
It's like there are two tiers of legacy characters in the MCU right now. We have the this first tier, the Next Generation I'll call it, where you have Kamala and the Young Avengers crew (we can't even get to the Bradleys, Cassie Lang, the Vision-Maximoff twins, and however they were going to make Hulkling work). The video already hit on the drobbed ball in regards to them.
Then you have what I call the Second Shift, which are all the characters being set up to replace departing actors. And I think this is where the problem really begins. For Steve, you have Sam AND Bucky, with Sam barely established as the holder of the shield! You have MCU Peter Parker literally cleaning up Tony's messes! Shuri would fall into this category, especially after Boseman's death, as well as Yelena taking over the Black Widow mantle. If anything, MCU Kate Bishop fits on this tier better than she does with the other Young Avengers. An offshoot are the character not meant to direct replace a character, but more to establish their relevance post-Endgame. She-Hulk, Daredevil/Echo, Loki after a fashion, Shang-Chi, the Thunderbolts, etc.
We barely have these characters defined, and a lot of them would make more sense as connected to certain characters than others. Instead of America (who really should have been on Loki), Strange could have had Shang-Chi and/or Wanda herself (but that would require certain people to care about her development in WandaVision). Riri should have been connected more to Tony, or even established with Pepper (making her Rescue armor actually have a point beyond the big battle). Peter... should have just been grown up and a full contemporary to the other Avengers instead of a gotdang teenager AGAIN.
I suspect this is the first domino to fall in the post-Endgame mess. They were trying to do too much, and establish two different sets of legacy characters with no clear idea of what the point of either set was exactly. They should have taken an actual, real life 5-year break after Endgame and basically treated the Multiverse Saga as a whole new storyline separate from (but still canon to) IW. A rebooted Phase 1, so to say, but now with technology and a shift in the film going culture that reduced a lot of the hurdles that Iron Man 1 faced. But that would require modern Disney to treat their properties as more than content mills, and they don't seem to be doing that anytime soon.
They’re so popular that their comics get canceled 🤭
No surprise you miss the point of the article lol
i checked out of MCU but i cant believe they said Kamala's power is hard to do on screen?! The Flash had a side character with similar ability and they did fine
Riri did not need to be in Wakanda Forever.
I also think the problem is....not only Marvel bringing in little known characters ( poorly) ..it's you already have literally thousands of other well established heroes and villains just waiting for their turn to shine. Any comic book fan can name tons of other characters they would want to see ahead of the ones they chose to go with. Ijs 🤷🏾♂️
The MCU version is less ms America Chavez and more ms Canada Chavez
hahaha
America Chavez was cast so young on purpose. it was a very intentional move because the higher ups at Marvel know America Chavez X Kate Bishiop is one of the biggest ships in the whole Marvel Comic book universe but I know for a fact because I worked in the industry and have talked to plenty of people who worked on Kate Bishiop books that they refused several different creators begging to have her be bisexual. Over several years of writers asking and fans asking Marvel at every step refused because they don't want the movies to be gay, America being young lets them avoid queerness in most ways, she can be a two moms and pride badge girl and if you ask why she isn't dating women or why she isn't like a sexy lesbian icon like in the comics they can come at you for wanting a kid to do those things.
She's never going to be full queer onscreen by the mcu. They didn't even want her dark. In the end, mcu feels they have to appease countries outside the usa and feel being less queer and fairer skin is the best way.
@what? Countries outside the USA matter too? Weirdddddddd. 🙄
@@TeWheroThey don't matter if they're homophobic or racist.
@@hannahleigh6152you are an imperialist
@@faith223 Literally how
I agree with what you said about the treatment of Riri Williams! I avoided BP2 spoilers before seeing the movie in theaters, so I was really surprised and happy when she made an appearance! I kept waiting for them to explain her origins. How Tony Stark himself had saw her as a potential hero, just like Tom Holland's Spiderman. I was eager to see how they would introduce this legacy character so my friends watching could be filled in on how important she is. But.....the movie didn't really convey that....or rather she was important for other reasons....but throughout the movie these reasons were easily forgotten...😅
The friends that I went and saw the movie with had no idea who she was. When I told them afterwards that she is supposed to eventually take up Tony Stark's mantle they were so shocked. I really wish they would've gone more into her story other than just "MIT student who accidentally/unintentionally starts a turf war. Has sentiment for her dead relative's car"
How powerful and cool would it have been for them to establish that she's been this super duper genius in the background this whole time! One that has a very important role to play in future storylines, especially post Tony Stark's death, a man who her and a few others succeed and carry on the legacy of.
The problem with the legacy characters is that the MCU implies that they want them to _replace_ the originals, and that's never worked in the Marvel comics. And even in DC, where legacies have sometimes worked, the last couple decades have rolled all that back and brought back the Silver Age versions. I'd love to see DC movies based around Wally and Kyle, but it's not happening. These characters need to exist _alongside_ the originals, not _instead_ of them.
I definitely think you're on to something. And the unfortunate fact is comic books can simply bring back the original and then do whatever with the legacy, but as time actually passes and actors move in and out of the franchise, they inevitably have to be replaced in some capacity. We can even see greater openness in characters like Yelena and Kate, who appeared alongside their counterparts. Meanwhile, Riri just shows up completely unrelated to Iron Man.
@@philbattiste9649 You can replace actors though. The last Spider-Man had not one, not two, but three different people who had played Spider-Man, and each of them was Peter Parker. They need to figure out new people to pick up Tony Stark and Steve Rogers, if the originals no longer want the roles.
@@timogul The problem with replacing actors at this point is that, as discussed in the video, Disney has built brands dependant on people as much as characters. They worked hard to make RDJ synonymous with Iron Man. They did the same with Steve Rogers and Chris Evans. And now, that's biting them in the ass, as more of these actors leave or get into scandals.
Watched this early on Nebula! Hooray for Nebula!
I just have a small amount of hope that maybe they could make an animated series focusing on each of the characters that don't connect to the mcu. Just a animated series focusing on the character development and background of said character. Kind of like Moon Girl.
Have you seen Marvel Rising? They need to repromote those, and then expand. I'm actually gonna watch them again right now before my D+ expires since I'm thinking about em and only seen em once. I wept the first time cuz Disney is trying really hard to feed us but people are taking it for granted...
No i have not, ill probably watch it@nailinthefashion
Oh, like What If…?
…
*wait a sec*
…
*That’s what the show should’ve been like. That’s not the show we got at all…for some reason.*
Honestly I think Marvel should go back to having all their characters be separate, with just easter egg-type references to other heroes. The MCU is so big and exhausting now that I'm not even invested anymore. I see the movies of my fave characters (usually way after they've left theaters) and that's it
I’m Latino & I’ll admit that many of us don’t care about representation as much as other minorities. But what I find deeply distasteful is when we’re pandered to, as was the case with America Chavez. The inclusion of the character was pointless & irritating.
I dislike this concept that every single movie needs to have every frame look like a UN or Greenpeace meeting with every makeup shade included. I’d much rather have only 20% of the movies be actually focused on Latinos, where a Latino plays the MC, there’s a Latino family, etc. Encanto is a nice example, not MCU ofc, but Blue Beetle also did a pretty good job as a DC film. Don’t just throw in a Chavez as a plot device for the WM leftist filmmakers to virtue signal to each other on their DEI, point at her & say “oh look, short & brown!” 😂
What, but Forced White Male Supremacy is fine?
This was all amazingly put! Thank you for making this video!!