Is Oscar a Bad Character? A Good One? Let's Discuss | RWBY Discussion
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.ค. 2024
- After weeks of not posting, I woke up and chose violence. Join me as I discuss aspects of RWBY I'm not a fan of, rant for way too long about a certain ship, and try to figure out my own true opinion on everyone's favorite cinnamon roll, Oscar Pine.
Twitter: / hmnijoe - บันเทิง
When Blake was assigning words to different characters, I remember thinking, "Well that's oversimplifying your friends," but then I thought, "What would Oscar be?" And I couldn't come up with anything because he was kind of just scared, sassy, and sweet. None of which are really qualities or concepts he is "the embodiment of." Now, after the Atlas arc, I figured out what word I'd pick for him: sincerity. No matter the scene or the dialogue, maybe it's mostly Aaron Dismuke's doing, but he oozes sincerity in everything he does. Not the most exciting trait to embody, but it's the one I feel fits, and it's part of why I enjoy his character so much. I really wish we'd gotten to see him do "some thinking" when he went missing in Argus, because I agree that his development into being more sure of himself happening offscreen actually detracted from the character. We need to see WHY a character develops for it to work.
yo quin!! I thought you said his word was resilience? I like sincerity tho it fits
@@planetbandit2198 Hey bandit!!! Yeah, it was resilience at one point, I only recently re-thought it :P Good memory, I don't even remember bringing that up in a video? (Or are you following my tumblr and I just don't know it?)
@@HyperfixationStation oh I'm not on tumblr. you said it in your ozmosis video lol
I really do agree with you here! The way I put it in the video is how he interacts with the villains, showcasing both maturity and youthfulness, but sincerity is a much better word to describe it. It's a part of Oscar's character I do thoroughly enjoy and one of his traits that would normally make him a very likable character to me.
However, I think that his sincerity isn't really enough to carry his character for me, especially when compared to other members of the main cast who are also very sincere while still having much bigger personalities. In particular there is Ruby, whose character thesis is essentially "a smaller more honest soul," and Jaune, who despite his early bluster and having his origin be lying to get into beacon, has always felt like one of the most sincere characters in the show, especially when interacting with people like Ruby, Pyrrha or Ren. This is probably due in part to Oscar being introduced in volume 4, so not having the exaggerated goofiness of Beacon era RWBY ingrained in his character.
@@HelloMyNameIsJoe I do think that's a big part of it! The Beacon era introduced diverse characters with exaggerated personalities that over time were developed on in more realistic ways, but Oscar was introduced as just... some kid. He never had that "he's the [trait] one!" era. That's part of why I wish they'd put him in chibi - it'd force them to characterize him more clearly by choosing what to exaggerate for comedic effect.
He did use *some* magic when doing the cane blast - he created the green magic bubble to protect himself (though it was Oscar's color of green instead of Oz's and it had orange lightning this time). But yeah, having an episode where he says they merge faster every time they use magic, then he uses magic TWICE in that episode... you'd think that'd be a turning point or addressed in some shape or form other than background hints of them acting more like each other.
Oscar got a little bit of a sassy side. Emarled seems to be bringing more of that out of him. I'm excited!!
always loved his sass, glad it stuck around since volume 4, and I adore it with Emerald
@@quinintheclouds Emarled siblings for the win!!
@@Skywolf1802 emerald city siblings!!!
he should get to sass more often it's always great
Haha, he does indeed. I feel they haven't really let that part of him shine through that much thus far, so I hope they lean into it a bit more going forward. His relationship with Emerald is great!
1:38 Oscar is a person who does things at his own pace(first shown to us on the farm and then being hesitant in Ozpin, war ,etc.) It can basically be summed up as not questioning if he has the ability but rather, if he is willing to take the risk. He also has high empathy in regards to other predicaments as a result.
3:12 Oscar is more of Trish Una in that he struggles with a fate placed upon him by someone powerful(the boss, Ozpin) we don’t see her have much banter with other characters or even touch them until she cements her place within the group.
4:26 Oscar is still struggling, but again he does things at a steady pace so he’s not obsessing over it all the time. We still see how V5-Oscar learns he can get different sources of motivation, V6-we see more of how Oscar doesn’t obsess over the future but is stilll concerned about it, V8-Oscar struggles with how his way of doing things will conflict with Ozpin’s way in this war and make seems like he still hasn’t found a place he can truly belong because of it.
5:42 I think your referring to BANTER more than personality. For example, Sally x Jack(Nightmare before Christmas) doesn’t have too much banter but that does not mean they are without personality. Which is fine if you like that more but if anything Ruby is more genuine with Oscar in that she doesn’t really backtrack signs of her true vulnerability when talking with him.
6:42 If you think its cringy that’s fine but regardless of how you interpret the scene, it takes a pretty mature stance. Once they say "We should tell Ironwood!" in unison and get past their giggles, the tone shifts. Ruby says "I guess we're on the same page, huh?" in a way that both shows her nervousness to confront him about her change of mind as well as her relief that they're in agreement.
7:00 The thing about RG is that their interactions are usually not in the foreground, being the opposite of Bumbleby who always have surface focus a lot which sometimes causes arguments amongst the fndm even I don’t mind it except for a few instances.
Also part of of the reason it might seem slow is because Oscar and Ruby don’t really have many opportunities to hang out, even when they take breaks they are basically taking care of other people. Like Ruby literally is distracted from both Qrow and Emerald in V5 and V8 when Ruby feels like she wants to talk more. It can be scary because Ruby and Oscar having more focus onscreen might force the writers in exploring Ruby's emotions too early because of how their relationships is defined as Ruby motivating Oscar while Oscar at the same time keeps Ruby grounded
8:59 Emerald City is definitely a BROOTP, probably in my top 3 in the entire show
10:24 It has happened, it just going to be more seamless like Kurama from Yu Yu Hakusho.( I mention him a lot when talking about Oscar but the merge is pretty much exactly same rules)
10:29 You can also takes Oscar issue as being similar to Adrien's issue in Miracukous ladybug, finding out who he truly is between Cat Noir and Adrien Agreste being very different yet the same person.
Honestly Oscar is one of my favorites in the cast but that wasn’t until volume 7 when Ozpin wasn’t there. I was honestly hoping he would get more chances to grow from vol 7-8 , which kinda happened but not as I think the character needed to . We could have used flashbacks of his development or even more interactions besides Irownwood . And I was really hoping he get to talk to Penny about being controlled as she was hacked. Just how he has controlled by Ozpin before. I wish he was Oscar replaced Ceil in Volume 3 we would get to know him a bit more with an established relationship with Penny. Another thing I agree to is the fact the cast is way to big this is especially seen in volume 6 where John is the only one to be able to react to Pyhraa’s statue how about John walks in on Oscar crying booom there could be development on screen . I have faith that he will get a bigger role in V9 but idk I think he will just be shoved in the background behind Sun and CFVY.
So Miles did a cameo video on Oscar & Ruby relationship so far. Their goal was to make their dynamic adorably awkward and supportive.
It's also been pointed out that Ruby will slow down around Oscar & be more honest about her feeling.
If u ship RG then u like honest awarked realships.
I'm not a rg shipper, but that is one point I differed with the video on. I genuinely love their friendship, and never feel like they act out of character with each other. I like their one-on-ones because they both feel so genuine and open with one another (though admittedly the one in v5 is a bit boring on rewatch). The problem is that if I hadn't hyperfixated on Oscar, I wouldn't have noticed most of the stuff I love the character for. It's only because I analyzed his scenes and relationships and personality so closely that I feel almost any of this, and on casual viewing, I liked the kid, but he always felt like he had more potential than was acted on, and pinning down his personality was hard. I hope crwby lets him have a crisis or SOMETHING to let us connect with him. Hard for people to care about what's happening to him if we don't know what he's thinking. All v8 gave us was another "I don't want that" and "I'm not ready for that." But yeah, I actually enjoy his talks with Ruby, they feel like some of the only times Ruby lets down her walls to introspect without jumping into optimistic leader mode (she tried that in v5 and he shut it down lmao).
@@HyperfixationStation There is a lot left to explore, considering Oscar's the only one who we have yet to get info on his parents. Same goes for Ruby emotions though I feel like that will be explored more in Volume 9. I imagine Ruby and Oscar will hang out once they reunite considering Ruby has done so with almost every other character so might get something similar to Jaune and Ruby in V4 and Weiss and Ruby in V6, etc.
To me the way Miles described Ruby and Oscar's relationship sounds like a discount version of what Ruby and Jaune already had, except that the latter two moved out of the awkward phase and actually can mutually support one another. Oscar simply has nothing to offer for Ruby.
@@MrRemicas Oscar got Ruby to open up a out beacon. No one else has.
@@Skywolf1802 Ruby has no problem opening up about stuff. She had no issues doing just that with Yang, Maria, Qrow, Ozpin and Jaune.
Beside, it wasn't really her opening up, but more explaining to a scared kid why she does what she does.
If anything, it's to Jaune she should have talked about that stuff, instead of waiting for him to reach the same conclusions a volume later.
"Ruby (...) being the only one Oscar interacts with." Thank you! That's why I don't ship Rose Garden, that's why I don't ship Bumblebee. I hate this trope - is it a trope or bad writting? We should believe main cast is a group of friends, not collection of ships who never interact between themselves.
I agree the merge needs to complete. If for nothing else to end the debate of weather or not Oscar will still be there.
There is more evidence that supports that he will so that's what I believe will happen.
You already know I agree with you on this! (Still working on making more videos about this cause I keep finding more evidence to analyze). I feel confident that we aren't going to lose Oscar. Like Joe said, the show's making that pretty clear. So either they do some "oh look the curse is broken and you're free to be your own person!" thing (which to me would feel like a copout), or they continue with the merge and explore its intricacies, because like they've said in the show, it's a merging of two souls, not a takeover. Oscar won't be gone, he'll be the current incarnation. He'll be Oscar, but all of his past lives as well. Oz even said the same thing happened to him one day, and he's still here. I hope that's the direction the show takes, showing how like Ruby said, he is his own person, in spite of not really being his "own person." It's an intriguing contradiction I'd love to see more than "Poof! Curse gone!" or "Sorry, you've been consumed."
To me it's even scarier to think about merging souls with someone until we become one than it is to think about being taken over entirely. I'd still exist and be conscious and in control of my body, but would I still be me? His narrative of personal identity and volition would feel unsatisfying if it was "solved" like how they used the staff to give Penny a new body. I don't want some magic fix, I want to see the characters deal with unfortunate situations and keep going anyway. And I feel like the merge is approaching FAST. Kinda annoying how in the dark we are about it all, though.
@@HyperfixationStation sorry what'd you say I blacked out after you said you were making even more osc/oz vids skskskskjkl
@@planetbandit2198 HSKDGHLSDGH LISTEN-
@@HyperfixationStation You do bring up an interesting point about what the merge would actually mean. I both agree and disagree with the idea you put forth about Oscar still being himself after the merge. I agree because I think that your idea is how it would work, Oscar still being Oscar, just adding in his previous lives as well. That's the reason I used the term "subsumed" instead of something like "Overwritten".
However, I disagree because I think the end result would be largely the same. The reason Oscar was able to become the latest incarnation of Oz is because they have "like-minded souls," so the two are already similar, Oscar simply lacking Oz's experiences and vice-versa. The end result of the merge, as I always thought, would be Oscar having all of Oz's memories. But in the end, what is a person if not their memories?
It definitely spawns a really interesting philosophical question of "what makes a person who they are?" that I think would be very interesting to see in the show, but I'm just not entirely confident they would have the time to devote to such a question, which is something I'm planning to address in my next video.
@@HelloMyNameIsJoe definitely agree about the philosophical questions at play, and how the show as it is likely wouldn't be able to address it without devoting more time to it, which I assume is part of your next video (which I'm looking forward to!)
Personally, I do think a person is more than their memories, but memories definitely play a HUGE role. Then again, with no memories at all, you're a blank slate, so who are you? I think Ozpin might view it like you do, though. Thing is, Oscar would still have his own memories of growing up that belong to him and only him (sort of). Could be a grounding thought for him amidst the inevitable identity crisis. I wouldn't be shocked if we got another "It's just a part of you, don't forget about the rest" (potentially countered by something like "It's not just a part of me, though, it *is* me.") But different ozcarnations had different personalities and made different choices, and we've seen time and again that Oscar makes choices that directly oppose what Ozpin would have done. I think that's interesting, but again, like you said, it's something this show really doesn't have time to explore in-depth.
Hey, do have a theory where on Remnant does Jaune lives?
I love Oscar but I would love to see the merge happen & how things would go from there but also to not keep the merge for like 5 seasons & make Oscar seem even more like just a younger version of Ozpin.
Everything you said about Rosegarden is exactly how i feel about Bumblebee
Most cringe scene? I think that scene where ruby lies to Ironwood is super cringe, she does it for what? Because lionheart? He has like one personality trait, nobody has any reason to like him.
With Oscar, it is unfortunately a case of subtraction by addition. I don't even dislike Oscar, he seems like a very nice guy but the fact is he weakens an already bloated cast.
The strength of a cast relies in how distinct each member is how how strong their character interactions are. Also critical is not not have too large a cast so so character or character dynamics gets lost. Oscar unfortunately brings nothing new to the table. He doesn't have a strong personality, he barely interacts with any characters and even when he does it feels like mischaracterization. And on top of that, focusing on him takes away focus from other characters, so it's a net negative having Oscar there.
On top of that, the premise of Oscar's character is very confusing. He's a peer of the main characters who's also the reincarnation of their mentor but he's not even a full reincarnation, his personality is melding with Ozpin's slowly. Also, he's not even a main character so they don't go super deep in exploring this.
That's a pretty complex premise and it requires a lot more writing and investment to let the audience understand it. Unfortunately, the show has yet given this premise enough screentime for us to entirely feel comfortable with it. That makes Oscar always feel like an uncertain character and that's not good when he's already established as having a very weak personality.
Again, I have nothing against Oscar, but his presence significantly weakens the main cast. It's like if they permanently added Suki to the main cast in Book 2. Now I like Suki, but would she really need to be there? Would she add anything to the group in terms of characterization or character dynamics? No, not really. Suki would add nothing critical that you couldn't do with another character, so the writers made a good choice and only added her to the main cast in the last 6 episodes of the show when the action was ramping up and they didn't need to focus on group characterization.
It's the same with Oscar, he adds very little to the show and the cool moments he does have could be condensed into another character in the cast. I wish more shows were as conservative as Avatar was with limiting how many character they introduced because introducing a character is easy, but writing them out can be pretty tough.
My issue with Oscar is he shouldn't exist. I've been saying since V4 the show would have been better if Ozpin stayed dead after V3.
Oscar just doesn't have anything to offer structurally, he can only take away from other pre-existing and more interesting characters. The cast already had a young hero with great but mysterious powers with Ruby, or coming from nothing and having to work hard just to catch up with Jaune. There already was an older, more experienced character knowing the secrets of the world with Qrow.
And that's what him and Ozpin end up doing. In V5 instead of having RNJR and Qrow figure stuff to do on their own, her comes Ozpin to talk about himself qnd tell them what to do, which isn't anything they couldn't come up on their own. Ruby training to cover a flaw in her fighting style is just an excuse to show them off, she learns nothing substancial. He ends up fighting Leo and Hazel, while Jaune fights Cinder (another issue, but I digress), while Ruby is stuck against Emerald.
Then same thing in V7. Ruby decides to lie to Ironwood, but it's Oscar who gets to build a relationship with him, to uncover the truth to him, and confronts him alone in the end.
And in V8, Oscar gets to be the one the bad guys are after, getting captured and beat up for informations, before turning villains to tge good side and blowing up the whale. What was Ruby doing? Drinking tea in a manor, while a battle was raging outside.
It doesn't help that now everything revolves around Ozpin. The Academies?Ozpin built them. The Maidens? Ozpin gave them his powers. Salem? Ozpin's ex. The Silver Eyes? Not directly said, but most likely Ozpin had something to do with it. It makes the world so much smaller.
In V4 and V5 the bad guys were planning their moves and had to make a note about how Ruby was fitting in. Finding Spring Maiden was of highest priority, but diverting Tyrian to her capture was more urgent somehow. To the point killing Qrow Branwen didn't cover up the failure of capturing her. Her group defeating Tyrian was proof for Watts they shouldn't be taken lightly. Ambushing Qrow like Raven proposed was seen as a bad idea because Ruby was with them. And when trying to explain why the Haven operation was a failure, Leo put the blame on the Silver-eyed girl being there.
Nowadays? Ozpin Ozpin Ozpin Ozpin. Ruby and her friends don't matter anymore, Ozpinand Oscar are there to distance them from the central conflict of the show.
It doesn't help how neutered Qrow has been ever since Oscar showed up. He has only fulfilled his role as a mentor *once*, in V7, talking, you guessed it, about Ozpin. Otherwise Qrow has been left with nothing to do, and when he does it's completely unrelated to what the youngsters are doing.
Nor how bland they are. If at least Ozpin was a more sinister figure, with plenty of skeletons in his closet, then maybe he wouldn't be such a waste, but no. He's Mr "Did nothing wrong", the character. Every of his misdeed is excused or blamed on something else. When he acts shady and we see his past, apparently the only thing wrong he did was die of the flu. He's supposed to have made more mistakes than any man, woman or child, or all of them combined, yet has learned nothing from them, as he keeps repeating them. He's He has yet to offer an idea that hasn't ended terribly wrong or wasn't the obvious.
And Oscar isn't really better personality-wise. All the characters have some traits that can make them endering while Oscar is, what, some kid? He's scared when the scene needs him to be, brave when the scene needs him to be, wise when the scene needs him to be. He also failed, in the four volumes he's been in, to form any actual relationship and bond with any other main character, except Ozpin. At best Ruby is nice to him (as is usually her default mode with everyone). Asked about this, Miles described it as made of awkwardness and mutual respect. Except that's already the relationship she has with Jaune (and done better). Nora find him cute. That's it. To the point the characters have to say they value and care for him, when it's never really shown, and in spite if all the time he's relegated in Jaune's team he never felt part of it.
My bad, there's Hazel. Who hates Ozpin's guts. Who's irony is that his Semblance makes him immune to physical pain, but never is constantly suffering from the emotional ones he got from losing his sister. Because of Ozpin. Who he manages to convince to switch side when he's the one character who would never, ever, listen to anything he'd had to say. But he's dead now, without having ever interacted with any member of team RWBY, so he doesn't count.
Ozpin who is also his only form of development, when it doesn't happen off-screen. The only thing that happens to him is their merge making him more and more Ozpin-like. And no one of the other character cares. Otherwise it's don't want to do a thing, spends some time off-screen, accepts to do the thing. Rinse and repeat.
His lack of definitive personality is reflected in his powers. His "muscle memory" make him after one month of training go from getting played around by a girl said to suck at hand to hand (which has always been BS, the first episode had her punching and kicking mooks around), to beating up the Headmaster of an Huntsman Academy who Qrow Branwen is shown to be struggling against, before getting relegated to around Jaune's level in all following fights he's been in. Then he gets new powers when the plot needs it. His plane is going to crash? He just learns how to land it. He's falling down a massive pit? Magic bubble. He's facing Salem with only the help of Hazel? Nuke her. That's it, he was conceal carrying a tactical nuke in his cane the whole time. Despite how useful this could have been in a number of occasion before. But don't worry, "most" of the energy has been spent. How much? Dunno, maybe he can do it again, maybe not. Maybe instead of kinetic energy, it will be static ones later, or time, or whatever. Anything can happen with the most boring magical boy. The most expendable member of the cast (it doesn't matter if he dies, Ozpin can pop later), and he has the toughest plot armor. He sucks tension and fun out of any scene he's in.
For all these reasons I hate Oscar and Ozpin. And I measure my words. Nothing against Aaron Dismuke or Shannon McCormick, who are talented voice actors. I even liked Ozpin in the first three volumes, when his misterious aura was still covering how much à nothing burger he is. Generally, when I dislike a character, I just wish they were done better. With these two, whenever they show up I tell them to get out of my screen. Every time Oscar gets into troubles, I hope something terrible happen to him, so he can die and the show can move on to better things. Only to be disappointed when he turns out to be fine.
it would make much for sense for ruby to be his reincarnation imo
@@saikq5380 No. No reincarnation BS. Once Ozpin's dead, he stays dead.
Good comment.
@@MrRemicas i sort of skimmed your essay and it looks like one of your main points was that oscar was taking screen time away from the main characters, specifically ruby. if ruby was ozpins reincarnate, it would center ruby in the story. and, if they slightly altered how the reincarnations work, ruby would still be able to exist without having ozpin offering to give her anything she needs . (advice, magic, explaining lore). i think it would work out much better than oscar as ozpin’s successor.
@@saikq5380 @saikq @saikq It's not just screentime, it is also agency and role in the story.
For exemple I mentionned Qrow, who's Ruby's uncle and supposedly mentor. But the last part is made pretty much redundant with Ozpin around, even more so if he ends up in her head. But with Ozpin removed from the equation, his role can be greatly expanded: he is the new Ozpin, as in he inherited his work of fighting Salem from the shadows. He's a great Huntsman, has experience as a spy, has arcane knowledge and knows the key players in the war. But he's also flawed, as he's not a people person. He's abrasive, a loner, a good agent but not made to be a leader. Which is where Ruby comes in. Because she can gather people around her, give them purpose and direction. He knows a lot of secrets, but even him doesn't know everything, making him unable to explain all forcing the heroes to find answers by themself. And any conflict between him and the youngsters would be more personal, since he's not their former headmaster, but the uncle of two of the girls.
Ruby doesn't need more reasons to get involved: her initial motivation was to fight for what is right and protect those who can't defend themselve, which evolved into a desire to set right everything wrong in the world. She's a Silver-Eyed Warrior, who's kind has been hunted down accross history by Salem's agents, which she inherited from her mother who died because of Salem. And she's the "smaller, more honest soul" that can bring victory where strength would fail. At the end of V3 Salem already avknowledges her Ozpin's key piece on the board. Ruby already is assured a central place in the story, she just doesn't need someone encroaching on her turf.
Ozpin just doesn't have to come back. Instead of a soul-jumping wizard, he could just have been the last in a mong line of people trying to protect the world from Salem in secret. Him dying in V3 wouldn't be a minor setback, but the tragic end of a man who tried to defend his kingdom against forces greater than him, who's ways didn't work and new solutions must be find.
But sure, it would help with screentime and the character bloat: remove Ozpin, and you remove Oscar as well. Two character for the price of one, giving more room for everyone else to breath.
Sure, a lot of rework would need to be done, considering how much central to everything Ozpin turned out to be. But to me his return was to the detriment of the show. The story should be about what it is sold as: four girls trying to save humanity from an ancient witch, in a world where legends cover secrets and you can't be sure who you can trust.