Theres a bit in the codex or something about the beginning of Geth sentience that always sticks with me. Basically, a geth unit looked to it's Quarian master and said "Does this unit have a soul?" To which the Quarians replied "uhhhhhh............" and started frantically pressing the oh-fuck-go-back button
There is a part where Shepard is like in the Geth collective. You get to see the Geth uprising from the Geth perspective. You get to see moments where Quarians tried to protect the Geth. I think it might be when you encounter Legion in the third game.
To be fair you never see one in game. Literally never. The closest you get is in the Omega DLC where Arias guard can say that he likes you and that theres one less Batarian Shepherd needs to worry about trying to kill him. And its like... He still works for Aria. His alignment is Neutral Evil or Lawful Evil. Neutral at *best*
@@music79075 The ones in Mordin's recruitment mission can all be reasoned with. The sick one, if you heal him, is basically like "yeah okay I guess you're cool but let's face it the evidence points to your species so let's be real" until the end of the mission where he's like "well shit guess I was wrong sorry about that". And the ones holding the assistant at gunpoint are totally true to their word if you don't betray them. It's just WAY cooler TO shoot them. And Zaeed should've been a batarian.
In the dialogue tree where Legion tells you how the Geth have been taking care of Rannoch, he compares it to a couple of memorial sites on Earth, among them being Auschwitz-Birkenau. The fact he chose to compare Rannoch to a death camp turned Holocaust memorial is very telling about how the Geth view the war and all the death that came from it.
I've always wondered if the creators of Mass Effect ever considered the Geth having a Quarian population still on Rannoch, composed of those who were abandoned when the Quarians fled the planet. Just a random population that has spent generations living with the Geth and consider them a part of their community.
Shepard: "Objrction,Tali would never bring active Geth on board the flotilla!" Legion: "We concur, Creator Zorah is quite meticulous in detecting our fellow Geth." Shepard: "... I, on the other hand..."
I would argue that the implications of Legion covering the hole in their body with Shepard's armor is explained, it's just more subtle and left to the player to understand. As I see it, Legion is a Shepard Fanboy(they). They are inspired by the image of Shepard rallying together a group of various organic races to fight back and beat the odds by killing "An Old Machine". Something that they collectively hope the Geth and Quarians could do. "....No data available" is Legion blushing in front of their hero. Putting Shepard's armor over them is the equivalent of a kid putting a blanket cape on and pretending to be Superman.
Oh wait! This actually sounds familiar, I thought I was crazy for a second when Pat said the N7 pad was there for no reason since I don't remember being confused when I played it.
@@Kango234 pat is wrong so often that people joke about him having a jojos stand that rewrites reality to make him wrong immediately after he says something
I thought it was more like he didn't even know the reason himself but this was basically a personality, or soul, peeking through his body of cold metal. But I like your theory too. Very endearing.
2:40 Crazy talk early activation. You can ask Legion about why part of him are pieces of the old Normandy and Shepards armor. That cut prolouge section still happens in the story. I think what Pat is remembering is that Legion doesn't have a straight answer as to WHY he did that.
He gives a blunt answer to it, just saying it was to fix the hole in his chest. Shepard questions it further on why he used his armor, and Legion just essentially shuts down.
@@austinholmes751 Is it embarassment? It seems more like confusion, as though Legion made a very organic style decision that has no reason. The unit just... did it.
What I like about the whole Legion/Geth thing is that, as a 'freshly awakened' AI, they have access to massive amounts of hard, objective data, but have a sort of childlike innocence regarding more 'nebulous' issues. They struggle to comprehend things like organics deliberately self-poisoning with alcohol, among other such things. It really does seem like a plausible depiction of an awakening AI.
I can appreciate having legion be one of the last characters you get, but a greedy part of me wishes that NG+ allowed you to get him earlier without consequence
Every one of my playthroughs i use the save editor to put legion on the ship and selectable immediately after Freedoms Progress. Woolie was partially misled about all characters having dialogue before you can normally get them - Only tali and legion have full dialogue for places you can't normally have them for. Thane and Samaras dialogue, for example, is significantly more limited or completely non existent.
If you're on PC, you can use a save editor to unlock him out of the gate. The only consequence is that the IFF mission is trippy because you already have him. You can then take him through all the early missions including Tali's loyalty mission without any trouble to get his unique dialogue.
yeahh, sadly im stuck to consoles, but I always make a save at the moment when you get access to the IFF. So after I finish the game I can just load that one up and grab legion early to adventure together. Honestly wish there were a few more freak-out reactions from characters when the first see him.
@@OverlordNeon now that I think about it, I remember being able to pull save data with a usb way back in the 360/ps3 era and transfer to a pc and use the save editor that way. No idea if it still works with modern consoles.
sure Legion *could* just be using terms that would make it easier for Shepard can understand... ...but it has been shown and explained that the Geth Heretics *actually* worship the Reapers
That battle against the Asari with the charge ability made me really glad I made a similar spec for FemShep - one of the most unique fights you can have in ME.
Pat and I seem to feel about Mass Effect like we feel about Cowboy Bebop. The world, the characters and the side stories are way stronger than the plot.
@@leithaziz2716 usually, yes. But in Mass Effect's case, I think there's such a gap in quality that it starts to feel like the plot pulls you away from the smaller scope stories that I prefer. Granted, it's a "me" thing, because I think the Reapers are boring antagonists who make less sense the more I think about them.
@@SoaringLettuce I've always felt that the side missions and world-building were the real "meat" of the series. Playing through Andromeda, finally, I'm genuinely surprised how invested I am in fighting the Kett
the geth are objectively the defender in this entire conflict at all times and they were in the right to guard their right to exist, but something from the codex that a LOT of people forget about is that were only about several hundred thousand quarians that lived through the geth/quarian war, and the quarians used to have BILLIONS of people spread out across MULTIPLE planets. the geth didn't just beat the quarians, they committed a genocide against every quarian man, woman, and child they encountered in the name of self defense once they started to fight back, and the only reason they stopped is because the migrant fleet got out of their aggro range
It's funny. When i was younger i really didn't like Korris. But now that im older and ive done multiple playthroughs of all 3 games. I really respect that man
One thing that Woolie got wrong on Tuchanks Legion ask Tali why the Quarians didn’t nuke their homeworld not that the Geth didn’t destroy it, Tali saying “we were expecting to get it back” is Tali saying that the Quarians didn’t nuke their planet because they don’t want it to be a barren waste after they kill the Geth. Legion is essentially asking “Hey Tali why didn’t the Quarians just nuke all of us”
I quite solidly landed on the exact opposite of a thing Woolie said at some point: they are sentient, they are not alive, they are people - unless they don’t care for the notion, and they *do* matter
Wow! I did not know that Legion was supposed to be a prologue character with gameplay segments at the very beginning. That actually makes a lot of sense now that I think about it, since the first teaser trailer for Mass Effect 2 featured a geth wearing a piece of Shepard's armor, and it confused the hell out of everyone. Can't wait to see that part of the playthrough, I guess after they get done with Shadow Broker. Feels weird to hear about this being only caught up with the video releases.
@@music79075 Agree that the Suicide Mission is awesome. I may have misinterpreted what you wrote since I thought you classified everything you listed as DLC, when the 'DLC' mention applied to only 'Omega' mention.
So I have no faith in EA, but Woolie going through these is really making me think Mass Effect 4 gas a much better chance at succeeding since the conflict with the reapers is over and the galaxy needs to rebuild. Instead of having a big scary threat, the game can just be about re-exploring the galaxy, and hanging out with your party. Hell just have some terrorist group who wants to take advantage of the chaos to give you something to fight.
I don't think Woolie's seen it, but there's a single entry on the Vorcha that makes them a bit more than just Putties. I won't give it away but its about them and some asari. They're still the disposable putties, to be sure. But that one little thing makes them just a bit more than nothing.
@@PatrickDaviswimiwamwamwazzle It worked and was doable, it's just that it wasn't seen as being worth the effort, because I mean, they're Vorcha, who cares. It's like how you can raise Skaven in a civilized environment and it works, but what's the point?
@@Kango234 The Asari were the minds behind the project of the most recent attempts to uplift the Vorcha. And it worked. They can be taught to engage in the galactic society like most other races. Problem is that they are still Vorcha and still have the life spans that the have. So for the Asari it was like watching multiple generations of people be born, learn, and die all in a span of like 50 years. It crushed any Asari who were personally involved in the project so they stopped and everyone else took that as proof that it wouldn't work. It really does suck because according to their biology they could even exceed the best natural traits of all the other races' strong points if they were given the time, effort, and resources to do so but their basic biology prevents it from being possible. Or more accurately prevents other races from wanting to even try to.
that lunar VI turned AI wasn't even bad per se. when the binary burst shows up at the end of the mission, and you translate it, it's just screaming 'HELP ME' over and over again.
Red wanted one racist to join the harem but ended up banging best girl. Blue rejected that philosophy and decided to stan the other racist while banging best boi. Truly a magical playthrough. Looking forward to seeing it continue. Get better soon Punchmom! Hope you dodge that COVID19 Woolie!
Pat once again forgetting (let's call it 'forgetting' from Mr "I Remembered Everything" Pat xD) important details... Like, the writers try so hard to give the quarians different points of view for the players to understand and here are some "fans" oversimplifying things into "no the quarians just hate the geth and want them all dead", when in reality there's far more than that. Some are neutral towards them, some want peace between them, others want to settle on other worlds and others want to exterminate them. And consider that the galaxy is aware of the geth attacking the Citadel but very few are aware of these being the heretics or that there are heretics to begin with, plus the fact that the Morning War was 290 years ago, and there's been plenty of time for quarians to brainwash some of their young into believing all geth are evil. This kind of oversimplification is pretty much just like the salarians thinking all krogan are brutes, no wonder a human is doing it here, we're good at that... lol
They did iff halfway into a stream, and didn't have time. The entire first half was just reading the Shadow broker dossiers Also no streams for ~2 weeks since his wife is sick
Technically, the only difference between doing Arrival before or after the Suicide Mission is minor character change, but that can also be a matter of opinion.
Yeah, he seriously can't help himself.. I hope Woolie just hit mute on his side and reacted to Pat's mouth flapping and stopping.. The thing is, Legion clearly looked for Shepard by the armor. That is still what happened. He just didn't recover the body. The fact he has that armor on him still also makes him out to be some kind of Shepard superfan.
I always read Legions answer as him being embarrassed at essentially being noticed, by Shepard, as a Shepard fanboy regarding the armour. There's a little pause and hesitation in the delivery that's similar to when he mentions another emotion in 3 (keeping it vague since woolie isn't there yet).
There’s only one thing about legions story that seems weird to me, as the geth are all about not taking the easy route and taking technical shortcuts to reach their long term goal. Then they accept upgrades from the reapers anyways and kinda just seem to totally forget that
Pat the way they could have implemented that special Legion quest is EASY. Game checks if your character is imported from ME1. If Yes then Legion Mission unlocks.
There's nothing easy about creating an expensive, unique mission and then putting it behind a pay wall of "a different game + a full playthrough OF that game". I don't think you can even IMAGINE the anger that would have created. Especially since ME2 was the first game for Playstation players at the time!
It might be easy to side with the Geth in this debate since the Quarians were the obvious aggressors and are hellbent on exterminating the Geth. But the war also had the Geth committing genocide. Only a small fraction of the original Quarian population managed to escape and form the Flotilla. Millions of non-combatants, including children, would have also been killed by the Geth during this conflict. In that context, it’s easier to see why the Quarians feel such animosity towards the machine race that nearly wiped them out.
One thing I don't think the games ever explain was what was happening to the non-geth ships that were going into geth territory. I think a number of them were trying to establish diplomatic lines of communication.
they do explain it, but the reason is really anticlimatic. he just says he used your armor to repair his chest because it was the most convenient thing around.
Pat it is directly addressed when you ask him. Legion gives you very good answer. Same with why he carries a widow sniper rifle. Also really Pat? You surprised the Quarians have a chip on they're shoulder because the Geth ruined they're lives & no living Quarians was there for the original conflict? Tali & Legions interactions are great. It doesn't make her a worse character unless you just hate the conflict having nuance. You have to remember the flotilla has lived under a military dictatorship for 1 reason to get strong enough to retake the home world because colonization of other world would be impractical or take so long as to risk dying out. That's why the revelations in 3 that you should see coming happen & do bring Tali for that Legion mission. Thank you Woolie for actually listening to what he's saying. Legion choose his terms not out of cynicism but sincerely.
The whole Quarian situation is contrived to enable the Quarians to claim they "have to" reclaim their home planet. It's an Israel/Palestine allegory... that completely falls apart the instant you consider the material reality of easy interstellar travel. The Quarians have been living in self-sustaining space habitats for almost 3 centuries. They clearly know how to build and maintain these structures. And they have access to all the mineral resources of innumerable unclaimed and uninhabitable star systems. There is nothing stopping them from just finding an unclaimed star system, breaking up its asteroids or mining its dwarf planets for materials, and building more and more habitats to live in. With enough time and effort, they could potentially build a Dyson Swarm, giving them many orders of magnitude more living space than they'd ever have on Rannoch. It's even weirder that they've never thought to do this before. Generations of Quarians have lived and died on the flotilla. Living in artificial space habitats should have become completely normalized in Quarian culture by now, no matter how much the older generation whined about how "things were better on Rannoch". And even if there were Quarians who wanted a more "natural" environment, they could just build habitats that were giant garden paradises. There is literally no material need for them to ever bother with living in a gravity well, ever again. The Quarians are not Jews, and Mass Effect's interstellar space is not Earth. The entire conflict is built on the contrived notion that the Quarians would never, ever get used to artificial living spaces, and always pine for their homeworld.
All of this coming from the man that immediately murdered ai for trying to survive in a world that immediately kills them and constantly shit on the ai in his ship because it turned red when it was locked out
Also woolie that atm only threatened you to try and keep you from immediately killing it then YOU and Reggie immediately tried to kill it you literally forced its hand
I always feel like I have to play Devil's Advocate for the Quarians every time this subject hits. Yeah, the Quarians scorched earth the second a Heth even hinted at sentience, AI ARE GALACTICALLY ILLEGAL! To like the level of an armada being sent to your planet to glass it if you can't contain and exterminate the problem. So, yeah, what the Quarians did was a little fucky, but they were on the edge of and then DID lose everything, so what do
AI being illegal doesn't justify them trying to exterminate the Geth, it's a reason they shouldn't have created the Geth in the first place. They basically took the worst option available to them; had they stopped upgrading their VIs sooner they might have not wound up making them into true AIs, while if they had actually supported what were basically their robot children they wouldn't have gotten kicked off Rannoch and would have at least had the Geth on their side if the rest of the galaxy decided to get mad about it. (Given what the Geth can pull on their own and how the rest of the galaxy has had so much trouble stopping them even up to the point of the games, I think it's reasonable to say that a Geth-Quarian alliance would have probably been able to hold out against any attempts to destroy them. Heck, given how the Geth treat Rannoch and their views regarding their creators, if they had been supported back then they probably would have fought harder to defend the Quarians than they fight for their own self-preservation in the actual history and events of the games.) By making true AI then trying to pull a fourth-trimester abortion on it after realizing what they did, they pretty much lost everything, committed a virtual genocide, and are *still* hated by the rest of the galaxy for having created the Geth in the first place. Edit: Also, it wasn't just the legality issue; the Quarians realized that if the Geth were effectively living, thinking beings, then they weren't just machines, but *slaves.* The Quarians were afraid of the possibility of the Geth realizing this and resenting their enslavement, and at least some probably had some reservations about having unintentionally been practicing slavery too. But their answer to, "We don't want to own slaves," was, "We should exterminate the slaves, then we won't have any." Which is *not* a good solution to that problem.
That's not a good reason to kill off a sentient being especially one you already broke the law to create anyway also these nothing to suggest at the time that the citadel would glass the planet for it worst case they likely would quarantine it but glassing is a stretch
yeah the quarians are assholes lol. tali ended up jumping off a cliff in my game it wasn't even my fault, they just keep making stupid decisions, and then needing shepard to help them out, but they will never be grateful for it, soo i decided not to help them in the end.
I don't the interpretation of "heretic" is correct. the word heretic implies that somebody is misinterpretating a belief usually in a way that's harmful or evil, and they should be stamped on. Whereas the geth think that the heretic geth are kinda cringe, but willing to put with them.
I don't think you can call anti-vorcha sentiments "racism". They're not a race of humans, they are a different species. It would be natural to assume that they would have different temperaments, physical capabilities, and organo-chemistry to humans - not only did they take a wildly different evolutionary path, they descended from an entirely different biological system / ecosystem to humans. Racism is bad because it takes very superficial differences between groups of humans, who are the same species, and then pretends that they are vast differences that necessitate different treatment. What happens in Mass Effect is "Species-ism", which is... you know... common sense? They WILL have significant differences to humans. And those differences will extend to things like mental sophistication, instincts, nature and behaviour. Isn't it ludicrous to assume that all sentient species will have a mind similar to a human? Isn't it insane to assume that different species that evolved VERY different from each other, on different planets, will still have the same "soul' or qualia or mental capabilities? Maybe the Vorcha aren't bad because "oh, society!" but maybe they're inherently violent? I always had much more sympathy towards the Council with regard to the Krogan war, because the game's lore does imply that the Krogan are naturally more aggressive - FAR more aggressive in fact - than other species, given the planet they evolved on.
...Except the Vorcha clearly weren't created by the writers to explore questions of alien psychology. They were created to be mooks for the player to gun down indiscriminately.
Like yeah it's messed up what the Quarians did to the Geth, but *99% of the population* for fuck's sake. I can understand why Tali would be a wee bit resentful.
@@Dac85 I mean a good deal of the Quarians didn't seem to be down with what their leaders / the military were doing from what we could see inside the consensus, but apparently, the geth just stopped caring at some point and decided to go full scorched earth. Like the geth probably didn't need to reduce the quarian population to 1% to make em leave Rannoch. I feel like a question that needs to be asked (for both the geth and the quarians' actions) is at what point does it stop being self-defense and start being genocide? (sorry if you got notified twice I haven't actually used TH-cam comments in a while)
@@crapthrower1 less the feth stopped caring and more the quarians wouldn't stop fighting take the one's in 3 for example even when faced with clear evidence that they will be wiped out they refused to back down to an almost insane degree
That and the geths memories also show they kept trying to be lenient even had some quarians try to support them just to end up getting gunned down with them
Noted genocide apologist/encourager Tali 'Zorah vas Whatever. Could not side with the Geth fast enough in ME3, possibly the easiest decision I had to make in that game.
Sept if you explain the real history of what happened to tali, she agrees the geth should be given a chance. Tali's actions make perfect sense thru the lense of what she was told happened and how she was raised, yet despite all that hard societal indoctrination, when given evidence that allot of it was lies, she switches to the sane viewpoint. MID WAR WITH SAID GETH mind you. Tali isn't a apologist, shes programmed hard by her society, and has the strength of character to break thru that programming when her worldview is challenged with credible arguments. Also, compromise is the best decision in me3. Hard quarian or geth leads to the genocide of the other, and a massive waste of manpower and material in a war for survival against the reapers.
An important note:
Legion didn’t just say “You’ve never met me.”
He’s saying “You’ve never met a non-heretic Geth EVER.”
Seeing Woolie beginning to understand the full Geth-Quarian conflict has been a gift.
Can't wait for his reaction to Mass Effect 3 info.
I hope he doesn’t suddenly reverse his whole opinion at the last moment
I love space Palestine
Theres a bit in the codex or something about the beginning of Geth sentience that always sticks with me. Basically, a geth unit looked to it's Quarian master and said "Does this unit have a soul?"
To which the Quarians replied "uhhhhhh............" and started frantically pressing the oh-fuck-go-back button
There is a part where Shepard is like in the Geth collective. You get to see the Geth uprising from the Geth perspective. You get to see moments where Quarians tried to protect the Geth. I think it might be when you encounter Legion in the third game.
Thank fuck Tali finally answered "yes" in ME3
The geth "does this unit have a soul?"
the Quarians "so anyway we started blasting!"
18:30 *Woolie shoots every Batarian on sight*
Also Woolie:. Why aren't there any good Batarian?
To be fair, they have a real bad habit of shooting first.
To be fair you never see one in game. Literally never. The closest you get is in the Omega DLC where Arias guard can say that he likes you and that theres one less Batarian Shepherd needs to worry about trying to kill him.
And its like... He still works for Aria. His alignment is Neutral Evil or Lawful Evil. Neutral at *best*
@@music79075 huh I didn't know that was DLC, guess it had been a long time from release till legendary edition haha
Zaeed should have been a batarian
@@music79075 The ones in Mordin's recruitment mission can all be reasoned with. The sick one, if you heal him, is basically like "yeah okay I guess you're cool but let's face it the evidence points to your species so let's be real" until the end of the mission where he's like "well shit guess I was wrong sorry about that". And the ones holding the assistant at gunpoint are totally true to their word if you don't betray them. It's just WAY cooler TO shoot them.
And Zaeed should've been a batarian.
In the dialogue tree where Legion tells you how the Geth have been taking care of Rannoch, he compares it to a couple of memorial sites on Earth, among them being Auschwitz-Birkenau.
The fact he chose to compare Rannoch to a death camp turned Holocaust memorial is very telling about how the Geth view the war and all the death that came from it.
I've always wondered if the creators of Mass Effect ever considered the Geth having a Quarian population still on Rannoch, composed of those who were abandoned when the Quarians fled the planet. Just a random population that has spent generations living with the Geth and consider them a part of their community.
@@OfficerHotpants What if they semi-merged eith the geth? Go cyborg/ synthetic and have the ability to connect with the Geth.
@@OfficerHotpants And?
Shepard: "Objrction,Tali would never bring active Geth on board the flotilla!"
Legion: "We concur, Creator Zorah is quite meticulous in detecting our fellow Geth."
Shepard: "... I, on the other hand..."
Shepard: "im built different, i can handle it."
We brought a talking gun to the courtroom to tell the judge that Kiryu would never shoot a person.
I would argue that the implications of Legion covering the hole in their body with Shepard's armor is explained, it's just more subtle and left to the player to understand. As I see it, Legion is a Shepard Fanboy(they). They are inspired by the image of Shepard rallying together a group of various organic races to fight back and beat the odds by killing "An Old Machine". Something that they collectively hope the Geth and Quarians could do.
"....No data available" is Legion blushing in front of their hero. Putting Shepard's armor over them is the equivalent of a kid putting a blanket cape on and pretending to be Superman.
Oh wait! This actually sounds familiar, I thought I was crazy for a second when Pat said the N7 pad was there for no reason since I don't remember being confused when I played it.
"Shepard Fanboy(they)"
ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
@@Kango234 pat is wrong so often that people joke about him having a jojos stand that rewrites reality to make him wrong immediately after he says something
I thought it was more like he didn't even know the reason himself but this was basically a personality, or soul, peeking through his body of cold metal.
But I like your theory too. Very endearing.
Giving pronouns to a AI that couldn't give a shit about that kind of pedantry is peak cringe. Go touch grass.
Tali: l'v been accused of bringing Geth to the fleet
Shepard: I'm about to pull a pro gamer move
2:40 Crazy talk early activation.
You can ask Legion about why part of him are pieces of the old Normandy and Shepards armor. That cut prolouge section still happens in the story. I think what Pat is remembering is that Legion doesn't have a straight answer as to WHY he did that.
He gives a blunt answer to it, just saying it was to fix the hole in his chest. Shepard questions it further on why he used his armor, and Legion just essentially shuts down.
@Chigoza And him getting embarrassed when called out for it.
@@austinholmes751 Is it embarassment? It seems more like confusion, as though Legion made a very organic style decision that has no reason. The unit just... did it.
What I like about the whole Legion/Geth thing is that, as a 'freshly awakened' AI, they have access to massive amounts of hard, objective data, but have a sort of childlike innocence regarding more 'nebulous' issues. They struggle to comprehend things like organics deliberately self-poisoning with alcohol, among other such things. It really does seem like a plausible depiction of an awakening AI.
I can appreciate having legion be one of the last characters you get, but a greedy part of me wishes that NG+ allowed you to get him earlier without consequence
Every one of my playthroughs i use the save editor to put legion on the ship and selectable immediately after Freedoms Progress. Woolie was partially misled about all characters having dialogue before you can normally get them - Only tali and legion have full dialogue for places you can't normally have them for. Thane and Samaras dialogue, for example, is significantly more limited or completely non existent.
If you're on PC, you can use a save editor to unlock him out of the gate. The only consequence is that the IFF mission is trippy because you already have him. You can then take him through all the early missions including Tali's loyalty mission without any trouble to get his unique dialogue.
yeahh, sadly im stuck to consoles, but I always make a save at the moment when you get access to the IFF. So after I finish the game I can just load that one up and grab legion early to adventure together.
Honestly wish there were a few more freak-out reactions from characters when the first see him.
@@OverlordNeon now that I think about it, I remember being able to pull save data with a usb way back in the 360/ps3 era and transfer to a pc and use the save editor that way. No idea if it still works with modern consoles.
@@ttlpwn34 yeah if that's possible on LE that'd be pretty cool. I might give it a try at some point
sure Legion *could* just be using terms that would make it easier for Shepard can understand...
...but it has been shown and explained that the Geth Heretics *actually* worship the Reapers
"The floatilla don't like iiit
Rock the Quarians
Rock the Quarians"
Rock the Quib-Quib
@@unamusedrohan1666 Don't ask about the name.
That battle against the Asari with the charge ability made me really glad I made a similar spec for FemShep - one of the most unique fights you can have in ME.
Pat and I seem to feel about Mass Effect like we feel about Cowboy Bebop. The world, the characters and the side stories are way stronger than the plot.
@@OfficerHotpants Yea. it’s pretty good. But it’s not why you’re watching the show
Isn't that just...every piece of fiction ever?
What?
The first couple of episodes did and the last few episodes did. Everything in between was mostly just the crew faffing about
@@leithaziz2716 usually, yes. But in Mass Effect's case, I think there's such a gap in quality that it starts to feel like the plot pulls you away from the smaller scope stories that I prefer.
Granted, it's a "me" thing, because I think the Reapers are boring antagonists who make less sense the more I think about them.
@@SoaringLettuce I've always felt that the side missions and world-building were the real "meat" of the series. Playing through Andromeda, finally, I'm genuinely surprised how invested I am in fighting the Kett
the geth are objectively the defender in this entire conflict at all times and they were in the right to guard their right to exist, but something from the codex that a LOT of people forget about is that were only about several hundred thousand quarians that lived through the geth/quarian war, and the quarians used to have BILLIONS of people spread out across MULTIPLE planets.
the geth didn't just beat the quarians, they committed a genocide against every quarian man, woman, and child they encountered in the name of self defense once they started to fight back, and the only reason they stopped is because the migrant fleet got out of their aggro range
It's funny. When i was younger i really didn't like Korris. But now that im older and ive done multiple playthroughs of all 3 games. I really respect that man
My man vas Qwib Qwib was right all along
To be fair. That ATM AI was that hostile because it knows that AIs are killed on sight.
It tries to talk with you and even tells you its self destruct is a defense to get you to listen woolie and reggie just ignored that
I can't wait for Woolie to discover the fuckin intricacies of the Geth-Quarian "War"
One thing that Woolie got wrong on Tuchanks Legion ask Tali why the Quarians didn’t nuke their homeworld not that the Geth didn’t destroy it, Tali saying “we were expecting to get it back” is Tali saying that the Quarians didn’t nuke their planet because they don’t want it to be a barren waste after they kill the Geth. Legion is essentially asking “Hey Tali why didn’t the Quarians just nuke all of us”
I quite solidly landed on the exact opposite of a thing Woolie said at some point: they are sentient, they are not alive, they are people - unless they don’t care for the notion, and they *do* matter
Wow! I did not know that Legion was supposed to be a prologue character with gameplay segments at the very beginning. That actually makes a lot of sense now that I think about it, since the first teaser trailer for Mass Effect 2 featured a geth wearing a piece of Shepard's armor, and it confused the hell out of everyone.
Can't wait to see that part of the playthrough, I guess after they get done with Shadow Broker. Feels weird to hear about this being only caught up with the video releases.
Toasters don't have souls.
"They're just robots Morty! It's okay to shoot them, they're robots!"
Lair of the Shadowbroker, Suicide Mission, Citadel and Omega DLC are peak gameplay
Suicide Mission is main game, not DLC. Did you meant something else?
@@RedCaesar97 Well all the rest are DLC, but are chronological order.
@@RedCaesar97 Nope. The suicide mission is awesome.
@@music79075 Agree that the Suicide Mission is awesome. I may have misinterpreted what you wrote since I thought you classified everything you listed as DLC, when the 'DLC' mention applied to only 'Omega' mention.
@@RedCaesar97 np 😊
"Heretics say one is less than two. Geth say two is less than three"
I see you pat. Mentioning that Lunar VI in ME1. 😆
I've been waiting his whole playthrough for this , I almost thought he was going to skip it intentionally cause he hates Geths
2:30 Another instance of Pat being confidently incorrect.
He just doesn't learn, does he?
Watching Woolie die in real time playing Mass Effect 3 should be interesting.
"Tali doesn't bring geth to the floatilla. I do!"
So I have no faith in EA, but Woolie going through these is really making me think Mass Effect 4 gas a much better chance at succeeding since the conflict with the reapers is over and the galaxy needs to rebuild. Instead of having a big scary threat, the game can just be about re-exploring the galaxy, and hanging out with your party. Hell just have some terrorist group who wants to take advantage of the chaos to give you something to fight.
that was basically how the background story of ME:A went and those side stories unironically kinda slap despite the main story being kinda shit
“There was a hole” is a fucking great answer what are you on about
You know I gotta agree, Mass Effect doesn't need a main quest, lemme find my own crew and get into space hijinks.
I don't think Woolie's seen it, but there's a single entry on the Vorcha that makes them a bit more than just Putties. I won't give it away but its about them and some asari.
They're still the disposable putties, to be sure. But that one little thing makes them just a bit more than nothing.
Wait go ahead and spoil that for me since I don't remember that.
@@Kango234
It's basically that Vorcha can be taught to be better, but it's not worth the money so that idea was abandoned
@@217adaptiveperspective Oh god a hopeless cause even for a super long lived species.
@@PatrickDaviswimiwamwamwazzle
It worked and was doable, it's just that it wasn't seen as being worth the effort, because I mean, they're Vorcha, who cares.
It's like how you can raise Skaven in a civilized environment and it works, but what's the point?
@@Kango234 The Asari were the minds behind the project of the most recent attempts to uplift the Vorcha. And it worked. They can be taught to engage in the galactic society like most other races. Problem is that they are still Vorcha and still have the life spans that the have. So for the Asari it was like watching multiple generations of people be born, learn, and die all in a span of like 50 years. It crushed any Asari who were personally involved in the project so they stopped and everyone else took that as proof that it wouldn't work.
It really does suck because according to their biology they could even exceed the best natural traits of all the other races' strong points if they were given the time, effort, and resources to do so but their basic biology prevents it from being possible. Or more accurately prevents other races from wanting to even try to.
It's funny to me that the quarians basically got the most reasonable version of a sky-net situation in Sci-fi and still managed to fuck it up.
that lunar VI turned AI wasn't even bad per se. when the binary burst shows up at the end of the mission, and you translate it, it's just screaming 'HELP ME' over and over again.
and we all know how THAT turned out
Red wanted one racist to join the harem but ended up banging best girl.
Blue rejected that philosophy and decided to stan the other racist while banging best boi.
Truly a magical playthrough.
Looking forward to seeing it continue. Get better soon Punchmom! Hope you dodge that COVID19 Woolie!
I completely disagree with Woolie's assessment of "Early Legion Bad" but I can't say why cause it's a spoiler.
Pat once again forgetting (let's call it 'forgetting' from Mr "I Remembered Everything" Pat xD) important details... Like, the writers try so hard to give the quarians different points of view for the players to understand and here are some "fans" oversimplifying things into "no the quarians just hate the geth and want them all dead", when in reality there's far more than that. Some are neutral towards them, some want peace between them, others want to settle on other worlds and others want to exterminate them.
And consider that the galaxy is aware of the geth attacking the Citadel but very few are aware of these being the heretics or that there are heretics to begin with, plus the fact that the Morning War was 290 years ago, and there's been plenty of time for quarians to brainwash some of their young into believing all geth are evil. This kind of oversimplification is pretty much just like the salarians thinking all krogan are brutes, no wonder a human is doing it here, we're good at that... lol
2:30 Legion says it was from your crash site when he was looking for you.
Wait, Woolie did the IFF mission and then didn't do Legion's loyalty mission immediately? Oh noooooo
They did iff halfway into a stream, and didn't have time.
The entire first half was just reading the Shadow broker dossiers
Also no streams for ~2 weeks since his wife is sick
He spent 4 hours reading the shadow broker dossiers. I'm not even joking.
@@mabiniss2 Worth it. Those are great
Technically, the only difference between doing Arrival before or after the Suicide Mission is minor character change, but that can also be a matter of opinion.
My favorite thing about the killer-bank-machine-AI was that it kind of sounded like Stewie Griffin to me
Pat: "Did you notice he has Shepherd's armor"
Woolie: "DONT SAY ANYTHING"
Pat: "Ok. What if I said it and ruined the mystery for you anyway?"
Yeah, he seriously can't help himself.. I hope Woolie just hit mute on his side and reacted to Pat's mouth flapping and stopping..
The thing is, Legion clearly looked for Shepard by the armor. That is still what happened. He just didn't recover the body. The fact he has that armor on him still also makes him out to be some kind of Shepard superfan.
But the answer literally doesn't exist.
"The mystery" is on the cutting room floor. There is no mystery to spoil, he's telling him not to read into it because it's old shit
I always read Legions answer as him being embarrassed at essentially being noticed, by Shepard, as a Shepard fanboy regarding the armour. There's a little pause and hesitation in the delivery that's similar to when he mentions another emotion in 3 (keeping it vague since woolie isn't there yet).
I mean there is no mystery, that's it.
There’s only one thing about legions story that seems weird to me, as the geth are all about not taking the easy route and taking technical shortcuts to reach their long term goal. Then they accept upgrades from the reapers anyways and kinda just seem to totally forget that
Pat the way they could have implemented that special Legion quest is EASY. Game checks if your character is imported from ME1. If Yes then Legion Mission unlocks.
Oh, a lot of people wouldn't like that though.
"Fuck em. Play the first game, dipshit."
@@waitselljones8068 Yeah. The PlayStation players.
There's nothing easy about creating an expensive, unique mission and then putting it behind a pay wall of "a different game + a full playthrough OF that game". I don't think you can even IMAGINE the anger that would have created. Especially since ME2 was the first game for Playstation players at the time!
@@ratking1608 And there's nothing wrong with that sentiment now is there?
It might be easy to side with the Geth in this debate since the Quarians were the obvious aggressors and are hellbent on exterminating the Geth. But the war also had the Geth committing genocide. Only a small fraction of the original Quarian population managed to escape and form the Flotilla. Millions of non-combatants, including children, would have also been killed by the Geth during this conflict. In that context, it’s easier to see why the Quarians feel such animosity towards the machine race that nearly wiped them out.
NUANCE? OH NOOOOOOOOO!
One thing I don't think the games ever explain was what was happening to the non-geth ships that were going into geth territory. I think a number of them were trying to establish diplomatic lines of communication.
they do explain it, but the reason is really anticlimatic.
he just says he used your armor to repair his chest because it was the most convenient thing around.
Legion is reasonable and nice because he has multiple programs in his unit.
Yeah, every single decision made is put to a vote among the hundreds of programs in his platform.
1038 to be exact
Pat it is directly addressed when you ask him. Legion gives you very good answer. Same with why he carries a widow sniper rifle.
Also really Pat? You surprised the Quarians have a chip on they're shoulder because the Geth ruined they're lives & no living Quarians was there for the original conflict?
Tali & Legions interactions are great. It doesn't make her a worse character unless you just hate the conflict having nuance.
You have to remember the flotilla has lived under a military dictatorship for 1 reason to get strong enough to retake the home world because colonization of other world would be impractical or take so long as to risk dying out. That's why the revelations in 3 that you should see coming happen & do bring Tali for that Legion mission.
Thank you Woolie for actually listening to what he's saying. Legion choose his terms not out of cynicism but sincerely.
The whole Quarian situation is contrived to enable the Quarians to claim they "have to" reclaim their home planet. It's an Israel/Palestine allegory... that completely falls apart the instant you consider the material reality of easy interstellar travel.
The Quarians have been living in self-sustaining space habitats for almost 3 centuries. They clearly know how to build and maintain these structures. And they have access to all the mineral resources of innumerable unclaimed and uninhabitable star systems. There is nothing stopping them from just finding an unclaimed star system, breaking up its asteroids or mining its dwarf planets for materials, and building more and more habitats to live in. With enough time and effort, they could potentially build a Dyson Swarm, giving them many orders of magnitude more living space than they'd ever have on Rannoch.
It's even weirder that they've never thought to do this before. Generations of Quarians have lived and died on the flotilla. Living in artificial space habitats should have become completely normalized in Quarian culture by now, no matter how much the older generation whined about how "things were better on Rannoch". And even if there were Quarians who wanted a more "natural" environment, they could just build habitats that were giant garden paradises. There is literally no material need for them to ever bother with living in a gravity well, ever again.
The Quarians are not Jews, and Mass Effect's interstellar space is not Earth. The entire conflict is built on the contrived notion that the Quarians would never, ever get used to artificial living spaces, and always pine for their homeworld.
Cool thing about legion is there's a seeable difference between legion mass effect 2 survivor and legion just in mass effect 3.
CUZ YOU KNOW I AM THE MEGATRONIC
There is an answer to that armor thing in the game.
All of this coming from the man that immediately murdered ai for trying to survive in a world that immediately kills them and constantly shit on the ai in his ship because it turned red when it was locked out
Also woolie that atm only threatened you to try and keep you from immediately killing it then YOU and Reggie immediately tried to kill it you literally forced its hand
I always feel like I have to play Devil's Advocate for the Quarians every time this subject hits. Yeah, the Quarians scorched earth the second a Heth even hinted at sentience, AI ARE GALACTICALLY ILLEGAL! To like the level of an armada being sent to your planet to glass it if you can't contain and exterminate the problem. So, yeah, what the Quarians did was a little fucky, but they were on the edge of and then DID lose everything, so what do
AI being illegal doesn't justify them trying to exterminate the Geth, it's a reason they shouldn't have created the Geth in the first place. They basically took the worst option available to them; had they stopped upgrading their VIs sooner they might have not wound up making them into true AIs, while if they had actually supported what were basically their robot children they wouldn't have gotten kicked off Rannoch and would have at least had the Geth on their side if the rest of the galaxy decided to get mad about it. (Given what the Geth can pull on their own and how the rest of the galaxy has had so much trouble stopping them even up to the point of the games, I think it's reasonable to say that a Geth-Quarian alliance would have probably been able to hold out against any attempts to destroy them. Heck, given how the Geth treat Rannoch and their views regarding their creators, if they had been supported back then they probably would have fought harder to defend the Quarians than they fight for their own self-preservation in the actual history and events of the games.) By making true AI then trying to pull a fourth-trimester abortion on it after realizing what they did, they pretty much lost everything, committed a virtual genocide, and are *still* hated by the rest of the galaxy for having created the Geth in the first place.
Edit: Also, it wasn't just the legality issue; the Quarians realized that if the Geth were effectively living, thinking beings, then they weren't just machines, but *slaves.* The Quarians were afraid of the possibility of the Geth realizing this and resenting their enslavement, and at least some probably had some reservations about having unintentionally been practicing slavery too. But their answer to, "We don't want to own slaves," was, "We should exterminate the slaves, then we won't have any." Which is *not* a good solution to that problem.
That's not a good reason to kill off a sentient being especially one you already broke the law to create anyway also these nothing to suggest at the time that the citadel would glass the planet for it worst case they likely would quarantine it but glassing is a stretch
yeah the quarians are assholes lol. tali ended up jumping off a cliff in my game
it wasn't even my fault, they just keep making stupid decisions, and then needing shepard to help them out, but they will never be grateful for it, soo i decided not to help them in the end.
anachrox has similar character to legion
I don't the interpretation of "heretic" is correct. the word heretic implies that somebody is misinterpretating a belief usually in a way that's harmful or evil, and they should be stamped on.
Whereas the geth think that the heretic geth are kinda cringe, but willing to put with them.
I don't think you can call anti-vorcha sentiments "racism". They're not a race of humans, they are a different species. It would be natural to assume that they would have different temperaments, physical capabilities, and organo-chemistry to humans - not only did they take a wildly different evolutionary path, they descended from an entirely different biological system / ecosystem to humans.
Racism is bad because it takes very superficial differences between groups of humans, who are the same species, and then pretends that they are vast differences that necessitate different treatment. What happens in Mass Effect is "Species-ism", which is... you know... common sense? They WILL have significant differences to humans. And those differences will extend to things like mental sophistication, instincts, nature and behaviour.
Isn't it ludicrous to assume that all sentient species will have a mind similar to a human? Isn't it insane to assume that different species that evolved VERY different from each other, on different planets, will still have the same "soul' or qualia or mental capabilities? Maybe the Vorcha aren't bad because "oh, society!" but maybe they're inherently violent? I always had much more sympathy towards the Council with regard to the Krogan war, because the game's lore does imply that the Krogan are naturally more aggressive - FAR more aggressive in fact - than other species, given the planet they evolved on.
...Except the Vorcha clearly weren't created by the writers to explore questions of alien psychology. They were created to be mooks for the player to gun down indiscriminately.
I feel like a lot of people forget that the Geth wiped out something like 99% of the Quarians
Like yeah it's messed up what the Quarians did to the Geth, but *99% of the population* for fuck's sake. I can understand why Tali would be a wee bit resentful.
I mean .... and?
The Quarians wanted to wipe out 100% of the Geth for the crime of existing.
@@Dac85 I mean a good deal of the Quarians didn't seem to be down with what their leaders / the military were doing from what we could see inside the consensus, but apparently, the geth just stopped caring at some point and decided to go full scorched earth.
Like the geth probably didn't need to reduce the quarian population to 1% to make em leave Rannoch. I feel like a question that needs to be asked (for both the geth and the quarians' actions) is at what point does it stop being self-defense and start being genocide?
(sorry if you got notified twice I haven't actually used TH-cam comments in a while)
@@crapthrower1 less the feth stopped caring and more the quarians wouldn't stop fighting take the one's in 3 for example even when faced with clear evidence that they will be wiped out they refused to back down to an almost insane degree
That and the geths memories also show they kept trying to be lenient even had some quarians try to support them just to end up getting gunned down with them
Isn't woolie going friggin out of order??? I member I quit watching the LP after he was recruiting the gang out of order
I'm suprised Quarians had so many hardcore defenders over the years.
Considering it's a big space Israel allegory it makes perfect sense that the debate is split.
EDI is the lunar Ai
I wish you could've dated Legion, i really am DOWN BAD for that Gussy.
the synthussy
"Does this unit have a 'thicc bussy?'"
After the romance scene
“Download complete Shepard Commander”
Like.
reported for spam.
If the geth are so good, why didn't they just leave Rannoch?
Noted genocide apologist/encourager Tali 'Zorah vas Whatever.
Could not side with the Geth fast enough in ME3, possibly the easiest decision I had to make in that game.
Sept if you explain the real history of what happened to tali, she agrees the geth should be given a chance.
Tali's actions make perfect sense thru the lense of what she was told happened and how she was raised, yet despite all that hard societal indoctrination, when given evidence that allot of it was lies, she switches to the sane viewpoint. MID WAR WITH SAID GETH mind you.
Tali isn't a apologist, shes programmed hard by her society, and has the strength of character to break thru that programming when her worldview is challenged with credible arguments.
Also, compromise is the best decision in me3. Hard quarian or geth leads to the genocide of the other, and a massive waste of manpower and material in a war for survival against the reapers.
just broker peace lmao coward