@@thedarkfrost2351 Not consistently, but what I respect about DC movies is that they take risks. Whether it ends up good or bad, they try to do something different. Their biggest sin was trying to be Marvel when they could have been great on their own (Suicide Squad and Justice League are the best/worst examples of this). Thankfully, WB came to realize how much that doesn't work and started doing their own thing in recent years, to much better results (though I personally didn't like Aquaman and Birds of Prey, they were still generally well-liked, so there's that). Despite their shortcomings, The Dark Knight Trilogy remains the untouched peak of the genre with Joker joining it, which shows how great DC can do when they really try. Marvel is pretty great too, don't get me wrong, I'm not hating on it and I understand why people would prefer it over DC. As opposed to DC, their quality is actually consistent. But its problem is that too many movies feel the same and are often done the safest way possible. I personally consider Infinity War to be the crown jewel of the MCU, and why? It was ballsy, it broke the formula, it did what no one expected. I think it's miles ahead of Endgame, which had its share of epic moments and an incredible final battle, but it was all standing on a really sloppy story when the writers couldn't write themselves out of a corner. Outside of the MCU, I find every Spider-Man movie very rewatchable, Spider-Verse and Spider-Man 2 being my favorite Marvel movies ever. They are cinematic superhero magic at its finest. There was this air of grandiosity and spectacle to them that I think MCU rarely captures. None of Fox's Marvel movies stuck with me as much as Infinity War, Spider-Man 2 and Spider-Verse, but I respect them for taking risks, like DC. Deadpool paved the way for more R-rated superhero movies, Logan paved the way for more experimental genre-bending superhero movies, and The New Mutants didn't exactly do anything yet, but it's something refreshing, or at least it looks like it. Unfortunately, I don't see these effots get nearly as much appreciation as they should because most people were too busy screaming for Fox to give their rights to Marvel. And now that it happened, I doubt we will see these experimentations again except for Deadpool, but that's already a safe bet at this point. I might be wrong, and if I am I might change my mind, but this is how it is so far. I tangled myself into discussion a bit too much, but my point is, I like both Marvel and DC. But the reason I prefer DC is that they're trying something different and take the genre further more often than Marvel.
@@christiangay793 WB had some serious production problem during SS and JL. And reason why recent DCU movies doing good is Endgame was MCU peak. MCU hype is decreasing, so does DC movies tend to be more well-recieved in public, meaning less-wagon riders on hate. Also more DC flops, more ppl root DC movie because those ppl actually know DCU cartoon and knows the potential of DC movies. Thats what im thinking.
Went In listening to the hipo critics trash it . I was like oh no this is going to suck . Towards the end of the film could not believe this was the same film they trashed . Thought it was freaking fantastic . People forget about a year before this movie came out Disney was trying to buy DC comics .
What sucks about the "Save Martha" scene is that so many people focus on the "Martha" and not the "save" Clark was basically admitting defeat. He didn't care if he died or not, just to save.
@@forickgrimaldus8301 what? If you were pinning someone down and you’re about to kill him, and you’re blinded by rage and pure hate, and that dude then says “save my mom” would you stop? You don’t give a fuck about him or his family, it’s because Batman heard the name Martha, PTSD came into play and made him think for a second, he starts to realize that he hit absolute rock bottom, he then makes a promise to Superman that Martha will not die tonight, and even in the end of the movie he says that Superman was more of a human than he (Batman) ever was, and that he failed him in life, and won’t fail him in death. ps: sorry if my English is a bit weird, I’m not a native speaker, and I haven’t slept in 30+ hours
@@ElieBoutros1 Also I'd like to add Batman's mother's name is also Martha, if you rewatche the scen when Clark said "save Martha" he had flashback to his own mother *Martha* who got shot.
@@mijaroprime9509 yeah exactly, forgot to mention that, hearing his mother’s name when he was about to kill Superman gave him some sort of PTSD, and kinda made him snap out of that kill mentality and reminded him why he’s Batman in the first place
Not only that but it’s not hard to see how Bruce would be affected by that name when his whole life was changed after that night and the whole point of him being Batman is solely from that night
After he decides to not kill Superman, he immediately goes to kill a bunch of goons. Does the Dawn of Justice only last thirty minutes to an hour tops?
I only saw the better cut of BvS and never understood the hate. It wasn’t perfect and doomsday was wasted but it was still a good movie. I hated how the justice league made everyone except Superman look like a joke.
@*xokireiキレイ* Oh hell yes. Snyder and Nolan humanized Superman perfectly and stayed true to the idealism of Superman as well. The score for that movie is phenomenal!
I think that's exactly what he meant by his re-enactment at the beginning. Instead of sitting down and thinking it through, people jumped online and blasted the movie. Jumped on the bandwagon and became entrenched in their hate.
You’re right I jumped on the bandwagon, day 1, while I saw Batman kill It felt wrong in my eyes and I wanted someone to tell me thay it was I was like 16 or 15 when it came out, a stupid kid but now as a 18 I decided to rewatch it and, while the action is too loud for me, I enjoyed it and saw it with a different perspective
NP138 I never saw Burton’s movies I was too busy developing in the womb, I saw the first Nolan Batman movie but not the rest because I didn’t give a shit about them and Snyder, after knowing what the character of Batman was, It felt off
I really want to say Batman always had the “don’t kill”rule but he went to the “idc if they die” route after Joker killed Robin. That’s why they showed Robin’s defaced statue to show the mindset he was in.
Yeah, Batman's no-kill rule is something he struggles with, especially when it comes to the Joker. By refusing to kill the Joker, he's putting a lot of people at risk, and he knows it.
Yeah I agree with your thinking. I don't believe Snyder's Batman was always a killer. In fact in the ultimate edition there are several moments that allude to the fact that Batman has become much more brutal and vicious only recently - since the Battle of Metropolis between Zod and Superman. Alfred and Bruce have a conversation where Alfred says that Bruce has never branded criminals before ( referencing the Bat symbol brand he uses in the movie against criminals), and that his methods have become so much more brutal. He is basically reprimanding Bruce for going down a darker path. The scene where Clark first learns about the Batman is when he hears about Batman's escapades from a news broadcast on the Daily Planet tv. If you listen to the news reporter in the broadcast, she explains that reports indicate Batman has been getting more violent lately. Then when Clark is in Gotham at a slum trying to find information about Batman, an old guy with a sratch ticket tells Clark that Batman has become more brutal and angrier in recent months and to beware. I think the events of metropolis, and the revelation that there are superpowered beings capable of mass genocide, and the fact that he honestly has no way to stop it (being completely powerless against a superman-level threat until he learns about Kryptonite) traumatised and demoralizes Bruce. This leads him to a dark place with a sense of powerlessness and hopelessness that he takes out on criminals, reflecting his more brutal approach (Alfred actually alludes to Bruce's sense of powerlessness at one point). Also we don't actually see him kill anyone until the car chase scene where he is trying to get the kryptonite from the transport truck. Every criminal he interacts with before this he spares (simply branding them). I think at the time of the car chase Bruce is in a "few deaths are necessary to save the many" type mentality. The kryptonite and the chance it has to defeat Superman and prevent potential planet-wide genocide is just too important for Bruce to let get away, so he breaks his kill rule in-order to stop the mercenaries and procure the kryptonite. The few deaths (the mercenaries) are necessary to save the many (the entire population of earth), and is therefore deemed acceptable enough to break the no-kill rule. We've actually seen this in the comics with the main Batman: He kills Darkseid with a Godkiller gun during the Final crisis event. He feels killing Darkseid to save the universe is an acceptable exception to his rule.
James' YouNiverse honestly the ultimate edition was great but I feel like it really just spelled out a lot of stuff for people instead of having them just use their heads to know what’s happening
@@realonepx9885 the whole universe was messed up at that moment. Not just justice league. Suicide squad was destroyed with reshoots, the batman( with a story that follows into bvs by including joker and killing robin) was cancelled and now the universe feels like a copy paste of marvel
I think this film was great, especially the ultimate edition, I honestly did not like lex luther in the film (or his offspring etc). It could have been done better for reals where lex is concerned and especially how his motives were forced into the then upcoming film of justice league which was rushed into production and it showed...I love Snyder and I wish he was left to all his powers to make this film and Justice league what he untended...BvS was awesome!...These versions of both Batman and Superman were awesome...I felt his motivation to save Martha..seriously I did, and that saving Martha sequence was some of the best action I have ever seen in any super hero film or action film...period!
this honestly doesn't even scratch the surface of how deep the film goes into old lore and symbology. it's a masterpiece of mythic proportion. one of the reasons people hate the batman pivot is because they don't understand CLASSIC story telling. all the characters in the film a representations of something greater, and therefore not necessarily normal "human" characters. it's a classical tale in the modern day. it's king arthur, it's beowulf... it's superman
@@josepholsen7450 I bet you're gonna called dumb. Very dumb. Even though I completely agree with what you're saying, that's just how these stupid people react to this... It's sad. And because of this, we'll never get anything like this again... Probably
Snyder, Nolan, Goyer and Terrio are all responsible for the great writing within BVS and MOS. People that critique BVS or MOS without acknowledging the great amount of character development connected through philosophy, religion and some of the greatest cinematic references; is giving a disservice to the beauty in these 2 movies. The famous and most hated "Martha" scene has so much more to offer than the typical meme. It connects to "the greatest movie of all time" Citizen Kane and translates a modern approach to the biblical story of Michael Archangel. I'm not religious but if you google image search that story you'll see a more in depth representation of Batman (as Michael) and Superman's (as the devil) relationship; that'll show why the usage of "Martha" was the only logical choice. Id go more in depth if someone asks.
I think it's the comics that have made our perspectives strict. My girlfriend has only watched the main Batman movies and when she watched BvS the first time she loved it and understood the movie completely the Ultimate edition ofc. When I asked her what hero favorite scene was she said "I love the Martha scene you can see Bruce realises he's the villain and not Superman"
Yes! I understand what zack was going for in that scene. It was not executed properly and people looked at it im the most superficial way, like our moms share the same name yay. But xack planted seeds, for example when Bruce tells Clark, men are brave. He doesn't view supes as human, as a man. But when he realizes he has a family, a mom, he sees the humanity in clark. He sees he has become joe chill, he becomes merciful because he sees his young self in clark. At least that's how I saw it. I think if clark would have said save my mom, it would have been more effective.
I have just rewatched both movies basically since they released and i can't believe i used to think of these as "ok" movies. (i did watch the ultimate edition of BvS tho)
"It's a lot harder to hate someone when you see their humanity dehumanized and distilled down to nothing more than a symbol, a token. It's easy to feel true resentment towards someone, to hate them, to wish them harm, but the moment you see them as a human being--a human being just like you --the moment you start to empathize with that human being, that's the moment that hate is defeated." Thank you for making this video, and sharing those profound thoughts! Seriously, thank you! Getting to heart of what the movie was trying to say all along.
It's funny that 5 days ago when Zack Snyder mentioned Batman in his panel he said "my Batman" which shows you how aware he is of how different his interpretation of Batman is to other interpretations. it's a story of a broken man who lost too much and changed in the process with his anger directed towards all these people that "he" considers as criminals including Superman. Which in my interpretation the mentioning of his mother's name "Martha" brought him back to the reality, to the beginning, the trigger of what made him become this knight in the dark to what he was when he first started and what he has become. Superman's story in this movie is so fascinating to me and makes me love this character so much. Despite everything that's happening to him, all the false news, the hate, being called a god and still he's got a will and convection of steel and I really wish I could be like him in the face of distress and misery. It's a story of a man with a beautiful and kind heart trying to adapt with an environment that's not his. I love Batman v Superman.
@@josehoraciofernandez5117 Thank you :) At the end of the day it's a matter of opinion and I wished that the majority of people saw the movie the way I saw it which was not the case. Maybe people came to this movie expecting another superhero movie with a lot of action and epic moments and not expecting a thought provoking one which made them hate it. And if you think about it this theme of testing your characters, putting them under impossible odds and making them react in very "human" ways started in man of Steel. Clark not saving his father and his father sacrificing himself to protect his son from being exposed to the world when he knows that his son is not ready, such an impactful scene. Or the one with Zod forcing Superman to choose between killing him or letting the family die, a situation in which there was no happy outcome which was emphasized in Superman's heartbreaking scream after he snapped Zod's neck. Something you don't usually see in superhero movies and still people criticized that movie for both of those scenes. Zack Snyder is not the best director there is but he makes movies that you come back to after years later and see them in a new and different light and he actually said it himself, his movies are directed to the adult audience not the kids.
I would go further, perhaps all Wayne ever did was beat up criminals to give vent to his rage. He failed to change anything because he does not want change; he wants an endless army of evermore grotesque criminals for him to smash. He is addicted to his own anger and like all addicts he needs ever greater doses. He may have started out with a code, do not kill,but ultimately, that would never do. This is one deeply traumatized child who has spent thirty-five years in arrested development, never getting passed the day his world was shattered. You see it throughout the film: his inability to form relationships, his old car, his old fashioned house, the drugs, the booze... This is not Batman as a hero, this is Batman as villain.
I think everything you need to know about this batman is from the shot of robins broken costume up for display with no distinction or commentary needed,
Superman's sacrifice makes him recover faith in humanity. Superman inspiring hope and taking the best out of people. And they still say it's not a true Superman. People are superficial and want Superman to go smiling like an idiot the whole time.
@@AngelXO96 Yes the theatrical cut wasn't very good it had its flaws but I don't think it was as bad as the critics claimed, rotten tomatoes has 28% rating for it which is absolute bullshit and a lot of people/critics accepted that when they saw the movie the second time they found it much better bcoz they missed a lot of important points during the first time and some even apologized to Snyder for being too harsh on him so yeah it ain't that bad..!!!
Mohit Yadav idk man all the cut out scenes were really important to explain the first half of the movie, without that the set up to the Batman and Superman fight made absolutely no sense apart from a dick measuring contest. But with the ultimate edition that changes big time. To me the theatrical version was a 4/10 but the ultimate edition is easily a 8/10 and Zack Snyder’s best movie so far.
at first, I did not like coffee at all until I am 7 years old, not joking, I legitimately and still to this day, praise coffee, especillay indonesian coffees.
in fact i used like mos when it came out but every time i watch it i see how mid it is.bvs didn’t like.watched the ultimate edition & liked it even less.
Indeed. I’ve always loved the ultimate edition. In a way I was not a fan after seeing it in theaters. But after seeing the UE. I was in love and couldn’t wait for JL.
I never thought BVS was bad. Just viewing audiences have had lower viewing standards since every comic movie isn't doing the Marvel-itis non sense. And even they are starting to finally break that bad habit
Actually, what HiTop is describing WAS the point of Batman's brutal action scenes. As Snyder himself said, he didn't shoot those scenes like that because he loves the explosions but because he wanted you to feel uneasy with how brutal this Batman has become. All Batman action scenes have a lot of violence that would realistically kill people. This is the only movie that's directed in a way to make you feel that impact.
I'm really surprised so many people didn't catch the "Martha's Scene" at the first as you did, my Friend. Snyder treated us like adults, but we weren't ready for that. At least some of us.
you really think people don't understand this? I'm not trying to be rude, but it's not difficult to understand what's going on there. People get it, we just felt like hit over the head with the message. It's not that we didn't get it. As a hardcore DC fan I don't understand why Batman "hates" Superman so much to the point of murder in the fist place. Batman is the worlds greatest detective. He can't figure out Superman just saved the planet from Zod. Which from MoS that is so obvious. For me it felt contrived to go along with the reason they are fighting in the first place. So for 2 hours and 15 minutes I watch a movie slowly build to a fight that feels contrived. Plus I know this story is lifted from Dark Knight Returns, and just doesn't compare. You are free to enjoy this film. If you get that message out of the movie that's great! I just think it's off base to assume intelligent people criticize the movie because they are not smart enough to get it.
you dont need 100 iq to get that scene lmao. like what @faz said it felt really over the head,the environment was intense and you just blurb out 1 name it ruins everything. bvs was "okay" not bad not good before that scene but after that aside from SW scene everything else is shit. like how they literally made batman useless here and in JL. i prefer whedons version rather than snyder btw.
@@SanjaySarjal-fs6rl The fact you are defending the "Martha" scene proves you didn't watch the movie properly. You were obviously going to approve of any pos Snyder slapped a BvS label, which hurts the product for the rest of us. I do find it funny you guys pat yourself on the back like the "Martha" scene is something hard to figure out. Believe me, we all get it! The part we don't get is how you can give a pass to such cringeworthy execution.
The funny thing is back in 2016 I remember fans of bvs saying people would eventually come around to understanding the movie and haters of said movie said “you’re crazy! Hell no!” Now I’ve seen you and a few other youtubers slowly coming around (:
I wonder if in the years to come, we will see other divisive films be viewed more favorably by the public? Does anyone else think that after episode 9, "The Last Jedi" will be up for re-evaluation?
@@ActionfigureGeek I agree. TLJ is nowhere near as layered and complex as BvS, but all the same, I think it's still a contemplative, powerful and exciting SW film. Like BvS, it was unfairly maligned by the fans (but at least it still had support from the critics whereas BvS did not). My hope is that after the sequel trilogy wraps, people will revisit TLJ and celebrate it for what it does right, and maybe reexamine/find a new appreciation for the parts that they didn't like at first. We've seen the same thing happen lately with the SW prequels.
The criticism this movie received has always been one of the most mind boggling things I've ever experienced. I absolutely loved it upon my first viewing in the cinema in March 2016. In fact I'd go as far as to say I was blown away by if. So much that I paid to see it a further 3 times... Then, when the Ultimate Edition came out on Blu-ray, it only served to further improve what I already thought was a masterpiece and make the story more coherent. The fact that it's been so universally panned is a farce and it's great to see so many more people finally starting to understand and appreciate it.
I was a Snyder fan without evening knowing it. When I was younger I saw 300, Watchmen, Sucker Punch and that Owls movie in the theatre. And I just went there seeing he was the director and was just like “I liked the other films he did, I’ll check it out” Then when it came to him starting the DCEU and making MOS, I was very pumped since I hated Superman Returns and I knew he would make a crazy Superman movie that would show him fighting and using his powers against other powerful beings. I remember watching BvS in the theatre with my parents and I was freaking about about the mother’s having the same name and I thought it was an awesome movie. Then after when I asked my parents about it, they said it was really long and the Martha thing was funny. I was so upset and I couldn’t believe what they were saying. Then after the weekend opening, I realized I was the weird one for liking the movie lol. But I’m glad everyone is liking it now.
This movie has reflected what happened in real life. Zack Snyder is similar to Superman and Batman in the movie that he had created. And some of us who hate this movie are similar to the people in the movie who hated and feared Superman and Batman. Superman is human, Batman is human, we are human, and Zack Snyder is human too. It ties to together in an awesome unexpected way.
I HATED Batman V Superman when I first saw it in cinemas, but after Justice League I can't help but see how much good we had in BvS that was tarnished by that god awful team up. I was wrong and I actually appreciate what Zack gave us in 2016
The real problem was: The film was marketed as “OmG Batman is fighting Supermán!!” But in reality is a “Batman meets Superman”, that’s why the “Dawn of Justice” subtitle was there but people didn’t get it
This is exactly why so many people didn't get the movie it was much more than the 2 duking it out, it was about the 2 world's colliding, 2 philosophies clashing. A man who has lost his way Vs a man trying to find his way. LeX was brilliant in the film Jesse Isenberg just didn't do a great job because we all just saw him as Jesse Isenberg.
@@clickycrust After what chris terrio said about the matter, its all come together. The title "Batman V Superman" is nothing but a pure marketing choice.
For Lex, the battle between Superman and Batman is a win-win situation, if Superman wins, he reveals that even the so called God is merely human and capable of killing innocent to save his mother; if Batman wins, then a Superman beaten by a human is just proves he is not so high and mighty.
Also: 1. Batman is acting out his most wild fantasy of saving “Martha”, not his Martha, but another sons mother at the hands of “some punks with a gun.” And flamethrower. 2. Batman is still wrong when he hurt those people, at the end he realized how wrong he was when Clark died. His faith was restored, but at the cost of various lives who could’ve stood trial to keep lex in prison. It’s to me a good film, it’s not the dc I wanted or needed, but it’s one that was fascinating to see and feel. Thank you for this video!
Would be interesting to see how Bruce's character changed during JL too. He mentioned to Diana how he deserves to die for the men he's killed in his coldless pursuit to murder Superman. cinemacure.wordpress.com/2017/11/19/read-zack-snyders-version-and-all-deleted-scenes-of-justice-league/ "CHANGED: Bruce’s conversation with Diana after Superman returns. Diana comes in to pop Bruce’s shoulder and tend to his injuries. Bruce reveals that he is willing to die to save the world. In fact, he says “he deserves to die because of what he’s done. He’s killed people and nothing, not even his hate for Superman can justify killing like that”. Diana tells him that “he’s changed now” but Bruce remains adamant that he can only atone himself by sacrificing his life." Would've been perfect to see him amends his sins when going face to face with Darkseid.. alas Final Crisis.
@@dantdt4693 The Martha moment is actually quite beautiful. I think people think it was done in a silly way but really, it's a beautiful moment. So focused on hating this alien that at that moment he realizes he's another being, similar to himself. He has a mother, whose name is just like his, and he's simply asking to you to save her even if he dies.
You made me smile today. I liked MoS in theatre. But I fell in love with it during rewatch. I was okay with BvS in theatre. But the Ultimate Edition blew me away. Zack Snyder may not even be in my top 10 directors list. But.. man, MoS ans BvS are something 👌
When I first watched the film I wasn't ecstatic but i didn't hate it. More like underwhelmed alot of the reasons highlighted in the video. But after reflecting on it I did come to the same conclusions regarding Supes, Bats and Lex. Our world is too critical and cynical for a icon like Superman. The fanbase's worst nightmare of Batman becoming a murderous vigilante and losing control were realized here...and Lex becomes somewhat more scary and interesting in his existential hatred of being with great power unlike his need for control for monetary/prestige reasons. So all in all the film dissppointed critics and fans not cuz it was trash...it was because it was a reflection of our world today. And in superhero media...our heroes are supposed to rise above it and enforce our fantasies. Not this film baby!!!!
We saw Man of Steel through Clark Kent's perspective, a man who grew up in a farm as a kid who had unnatural powers, who was different, alone, he didn't have friends, he was a weirdo, he was bullied and yet he holds back these powers, he could've killed or hurt those kids who hurt him but he didn't, thanks to his Father. Jonathan knew that his son is gifted or cursed and he held him from becoming a killer or a murderer who wants revenge, he knew that the world wasn't ready for this god-like superhuman being, he knew that he will change the world. Clark followed that road, that path of light and hope that Pa Kent built. But later on, Clark discovers his true origins, he finally knows now who is he, where he belongs, he discovers that he is not human, he comes from another world, why did they send him here? he knows now that his father and mother were forced to send him to this unknown world and hoping for their son to accomplish their goal, to be something else, to be a beacon of hope, a light in the dark, and our Clark continues his path, he understands now what he will be, he will use his incredible powers to help these beings, these strangers against his own people, he saves the world, but its a loss for him, he is truly alone now, he is the last survivor of his planet and he has to deal with that. Batman v Superman : This movie was, in my opinion, the perfect sequel to Man of Steel, I really wanted to a fight between my all-time favorite heroes then a World's Finest conclusion leading up to the Justice League, that was what the fans wanted, but Zack Snyder had another way of doing it, Zack answered the question : "Are we alone in the universe?" it was No, and it leads to: "What are the consequences?" What will happen if this god-like being this God actually existed, fans wanted him to be always a savior, a lighthearted superhero, but no, even the multiple version of this Superman in the comics aren't always lighthearted, our favorite heroes can succumb to the dark side, they can turn rogue, they can be bad guys. and the movie explores that dark side. Batman was really fed up, he was going to retire, its over for him, he's been doing it for 20 years and nothing's changed, criminals are like weed, of course, and he saw that his efforts are in vain, but after Metropolis's events, after the Wayne Tower fell, after the papers, after the US Capitol explosion, his undying hatred grew, even more, he saw that Superman is this evil figure who brang upon his world chaos and war and massacres, and he was going to end that, his final mission is to break his rule and to kill this evil god and he nearly succeeds in doing it, before he discovers that this monster, this devil who came from the sky, is actually a poor, defenseless man who's last wish was to save his mom, he didnt ask for any fight, all he wanted was Batman's help, he never liked him, he hated what he's been doing in Gotham, and yet, he's final action wasn't killing Lex, wasn't killing Batman, was actually talking politely to Batman, he apolgized and he talked with good manners, but yet, he faced Hatred and Anger, Bruce accepted the fact that Superman is more human than he ever was, and he went on to Save Martha, then Superman died, and that was the Redemption of Batman, Men are still good, Bruce is still good and he found humanity again, Superman's Death was an inspiration for Batman, its a new dawn, the Dawn of Justice. I'll edit this comment when the Snyder Cut gets released. Edit: OMG YES ITS HAPPENING
BvS is one of the most misunderstood and nitpicked movies I have seen in my whole life. Usually when you read criticism about it, it's like with Man of Steel, nitpicks and complaints based on what's OUTSIDE the movie universe, not what's in it and in the context of the story.
@FoxRNG while i agree with you, yes batman doe not kill but the batman in bvs is NOT our batman anymore. He kills because he already lost all the hopes in mankind and that man can be good that's the whole reason why batman tried to kill superman in the first place, and it's has been addressed in the film by alfred constantly lecturing bruce that he is not the good man he used to be.
@Kermit Peanut I disagree, you saying he kills is just very..well not Batman. I don't like to start hate threads, and I don't want to, but...... Your examples for him killing are not Batman at his core. One was because it was basically the only shot of winning, and the other are more due to the writer's tone, plus one isn't even really canon. He's killed on unique occasions and runs BUT he generally doesn't kill. Also, no, Ben's Batman is not the most accurate, Kevin Conroy's, Christian Bale's, and Bruce Greenwood's all have a more core understanding of Batman, which means y'know, not running over criminals with cars. Also, the best portrayed is purely up to bias and taste. And "people who hate Ben have no clue" is not a piece of evidence. Also, the 3rd "evidence" is just the 1st. I'm not denying it, but can you give sources on what Frank Miller and Kevin Conroy said, also that doesn't mean he's the best. The acting and physique are AGAIN up to personal preference. But the final "evidence" and the last sentence of the comment, NO, Zack Snyder is stuck in the past. TDKR, while good is probably the only thing he read. The reason I think BVS is bad is because they needed more development with Batman and one single movie is not enough to do that. Honestly, that's DC's fault, but TDKR is so effective because we KNOW who Batman is and TDKR totally changes that perspective. Look, I don't hate you for liking this film, but these statements anger me. Gritty/dark does not mean good. That is the edgy 13 year old in yourself. They don't even really flesh out how Robin affects Bruce. I'm bringing up again that with development, this film could've been good, but it wasn't.
Mos and bvs were really really good in my op, but jl, man if i could physically kill a movie and get away w the murder, jl, the village, avatar and db-E
I remember i barely read about him in 2013. & while I liked the Reeve's movies, he was.. meh. Until . Man of Steel and ... well, the cinematography, the character, the meaning, Clark suddenly .. became like someone I know. Many said he was'n't accurate to the comics.. .so I start reading them.. A LOT I CAN NOW SAY, DCEU Superman, is also the Sups from comics too.
I still can't fathom how people disliked this movie as much as they did. Yes the theatrical cut was not as good as the ultimate edition but the level of anger was so irrational and unfounded. - regretful user
It simply is not a good movie. I don't harass the actors on social media. I don't think you are less of a person for enjoying the film. I simply disagree with you. I think Snyder does not know how to tell a story. He doesn't know what makes a good film. I can have sympathy for his personal tragedy. I can treat him with respect as a human while criticizing his art. Good people don't necessarily make good art.
@Wednesday Oh god. Off the top of my head for just Superhero movies, The Dark Knight, Deadpool 1, Civil War, Infinity War, Endgame, Avengers 1, Ironman 1, The Winter Soldier, First Class, Days of Future Past, Guardians of the Galaxy 1, Thor Ragnarok, Spider-Man 2, Homecoming & Far from Home, the list goes on. Punisher: Warzone is a better movie than BvS.
@@_androo_9202 Punisher is not as good as the other movies I listed but it doesn't become a music video every ten minutes because the script is just a series of cliches every five minutes between dream sequences and montages.
I'm sorry it's been so long since the last video, but I only get one shot at this and I had to get in 110% right. I hope you like it ❤️ Let me know what you think in the comments: do you feel any different about BvS after hearing my thoughts on it?
Nope! Still hate it. I watched the Ultimate Cut recently and still found it to be a pretty dreadful experience. Just not my thing. But now, DC's making stuff like Shazam and Joker, which I thought were pretty incredible so I don't really waste my breath thinking about things that let me down. There's so much to be excited about. Great video by the way!
No, but not because I thought your thoughts weren't insightful or that I disagreed with your conclusions. I'm glad you came to a place of peace, and I will say I found your comment about the legacy of Batman getting in the way of your enjoyment very interesting. Something that Grant Morrison, Frank Miller and other writers have played with in their runs on Batman (and Christopher Nolan played with in his films) was how the legend of Batman is what makes him powerful. What they rarely talk about is how the flip side--that it's much easier to hate a symbol/legend (like Superman) than a living, vulnerable being. As for the "artists should be allowed to do whatever they want with characters" argument, I'm personally tired of it, because it's an obvious fallacy. You say yourself that you had constraints on Batman--even after your revelation. "Batman does not kill...unless..." puts a constraint on the character beyond the costume and the iconography associated with him. Regardless, well done perspective on the characters and the movie.
You know what I think? I think this is one of your best constructed videos. The last part, when you showed 'acceptance' hit me like a truck. It's almost like you explained a process of performing a psychological analysis on yourself. Most of the things you said about this movie is stuff I always agreed with. Still, despite all that, I am not a big fan of this movie. I am a guy who prefers a good script over artistic directing - and the script for BvS, while it has some great ideas, it lacks proper execution and logic behind it.
Wow, this video reframed my entire perspective on this movie, AND managed to have a compelling story all its own. I especially love the way that the story of the film paralleled your own journey with your relationship with the film, a truly inspired touch of storytelling. Excellent work! Gotta be my fav vid of yours at this point.
Its crazy how you people are brain washed and cant think for yourselves. Holy shit. What happened to this society. That rotten tomatoes and a random guy on youtibe can change you perspective about something. Smfh
@@shamlotbestrhapsever7437 or maybe it's you who's 14 and have a small-minded view of storytelling & is unwilling to be open to new ideas so you call people who ARE "deluded"?
@@supermagnumable Oh yea man, I'm totally 14 and too stupid to understand this unique and deeply intellectual storytelling presented by our Lord & Savior Zack Snyder. I need to jump off a bridge and land face first ensuring that my "mind will open," so that I can join this Snyder-Cut cult that is in no way the laughing stock of the cinematic fan community.
@@shamlotbestrhapsever7437 .......what are you talking about? what is this whole paragraph for? I'm just saying to accept other people's opinion's (like OP) and not call them "deluded" because you don't agree with it. that's acting like a 14 year old.
It's weird that this movie actually made me understand Superman as a character. For the first time in my life I understood Superman and why the people that love him love him. You nailed it right on the head man. Oddly enough maybe it was my over analytical brain but I saw what Zack was trying to do even in the theatrical cut, it just was fully realized in the Ultimate Cut.
You’d be surprised at how much people follow rotten tomatoes on their opinions on movies. It’s insane how much they can actually effect the viewership on a certain movie.
This. This is what those of us that loved BvS from the start understood. This is why we defended the film so ardently. I can't count how many arguments and debates I've had over this movie and it all comes down to understanding and how some people are not willing to step back and take another look from a different perspective. You tell them that they don't get it and they get defensive, claiming they understood everything just fine, but you can tell that they don't. You try to delve into the deeper meanings behind certain scenes and they laugh and ridicule you for trying to find meaning when all alone YOU understood what the intent was but they did not.
Eh, I understood what the film was trying to do even with the theatrical release but I still do not like this film. Even with all the cut scenes put back even understanding the motivations of each character, I never had a problem with Lex as I think he fit in with this world and really enjoyed his motivation, I even understood why they made Batman kill as a way to explain why he shouldn't, but I still do not like this film. The first half of the film is great but it loses it's vision halfway through as well as some inconsistent behaviors of characters. Clark can hear Louis falling and catch her just in time from thousands of miles away but his mom gets snatched up in the middle of the street and he doesn't know? It was already established in MoS that he could do that as he almost immediately charges at Zod when threatening his mother. It's not a big deal but it's certainly inconsistent. I do not think the characterizations of it's titular characters were well done. Batman and Superman feel like the same kind of character. They are pitted against each other but they have no ideological conflicts and are both hypocrites as they don't like each other for the exact same reasons of unchecked power.There final confrontation could have been handled easily without a fight because it was a poor reason to get them to fight to begin with. Clark could very easily save his own mother. Clark could very easily explain the situation to Bruce and even man handle him enough to explain. But they had to get them to fight somehow. The third act is the worst part of the film and is where it lost me as well as ruin the entire film. I did not mind the ideas being presented. They just didn't follow through with them.
To comment on Lex, his motivations are more fleshed out than "I want Superman to be hated because of course I do". It's a bit more personal than that, and the movie does make it very clear. Lex was abused by his father, and no God ever saved him from that. There, he realized that God couldn't be all good and all powerful at the same time. And now, a "god" in the form of Superman has come to Earth and tries to save lives, and shows himself as some kind of divine being. Essentially, Superman is the punching bag Lex is using to vent all hatred he has had since childhood
You see, that's the problem with Snyder's way of making movies: Storytelling. People then to say "Uh, actually Lex had motivation and it's this this and that" but it wasn't never shown, it was never portayed in the movie. That's why usually "Show but don't tell" is the best way to convey a message, and it's ironic that a "visual" director like Snyder was not able to do that. I see all the time people explaining "Oh, but in BvS there's a reason for this dumb decision and is..." but never EVER in the movie was shown. One of the dumbest scenes are when Diana shows up and asks Bruce why he brought Doomsday to that place and Bruce says "The port is abandoned" just because too many people complained about destruction or innocent people dying in Man of Steel, but it's so stupid because is better to show it. "No dude, but it was mentioned", that's a horrible way to convey messages in movies. Even more if the movie is trying to be "mature" or "for older audiences", and yet it's full of mistakes that other comic book movies do, even Marvel. I think many people have selective memories now and because superhero movies are bad now they go back and think BvS is great and all, but no. It isn't and it never was. There are some cool ideas that might've been amazing, but most of them were portayed/told in the worst way possible.
Yeah I can't really disagree that Snyder didn't convey the motivations well. I just meant that he does have motivations. Albeit I will way that "show don't tell" isn't something to be abused. Saying it's abandoned in a one-off line is perfectly fine if you don't want to needlessly cut away from the scene. I agree that BvS isn't very good. @@DistortedEmerald
@@yourdadsunclesmate6308 well for me that was the case, for others who have different views of the character it takes time to adjust to the difference.
there are tons of movies made for second viewings. one good example is fight club, or even hereditary which came out last year. after you see it the first time you will be viewing it from a different lens after experiencing the ending. i don't even get the point of your comment, because this sentiment applies to all art. you've never heard a song you disliked at first and learned to love through time?
I watched them 3 times each, including the extended version. Still don't understand the hype. Mos is better than BVS, but in both the characters were ruined. Batman and superman kill in their first movies, wow. Maybe instead of using batman and superman, zack Snyder could use jerry and joe (random people). This way the snyder fans can have their Snyder movies, without ruining the beloved DC characters. I don't hate the movies, I just don't like them
@@MrE_ Superman doesn't really kill anyone, it may seem like that in the Africa scene but he even says "I didn't kill anyone". Batman kills since this is an end of the road Batman who has seen it all (Wayne building collapse, Robin dead etc.) and he's snapped. This is what I mean by rewatching, you eventually feel sorry for him and can relate as even someone like Batman has flaws, at the end he does change and goes back to the no-kill rule though.
"You will give the people of Earth an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you, they will stumble, they will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun, Kal. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders.."
Honestly, I’ve already been recently growing more positive on BVS but this just made my love for it skyrocket. I learned yet another lesson that no amount of school will ever be able to teach me. Hate blinds us until we become the monster we grew to fear.
I don't care how much hate Batman has, I don't believe for a second the worlds greatest detective couldn't figure out Superman just saved the world from Zod. How does he not see a murderous alien came to this planet and Superman saved us. If there is a 1% chance he is bad I have to murder him? It just doesn't make sense. At least in Dark Knight Returns I felt like they were fighting for a reason. I just wish that's the movie we got on the big screen
@@faz6877 The point was Batman was too far gone and irrational. He's seen good men go bad. Superman is godly powerful and Bruce knows power corrupts. Those were the themes in the movie. Did you miss all that? Batman is at his lowest. He cannot be reasoned with. He made up his mind. The worlds greatest detective is also human and watch his building, with his employees get destroyed. Plus, Lex was provoking his anger. I think you missed the point. Or just rewatch the movie knowing this. It's all in there. When Batman and Superman face off, Superman tries to reason with him. In the Ultimate cut, there is a woman whose boyfriend (she thinks) was just killed by Batman. She says to him that you can reason with men like that. The only thing that works is a fist." This is all throughout the movie. Have you not seen the ultimate edition? It fills a lot of gaps and motivations. Batman was brought down to his lowest so Superman can redeem him and give him hope that men can still be good.
Your last sentence is probably one of the most important messages people in general would do well to remember given the state of public discourse, especially online.
@@faz6877 I think you missed the batman snyder made here, he's not the young year on batman or the detective batman that fights his rogue villain. It is that batman, but in BvS the bat is past all that, evidenced by alfred "Oh, yes, it has, sir. Everything's changed." and "The fever, the rage, the feeling of powerlessness. That turns good men, cruel.". Affleck himself said that when snyder cast him snyder describe the batman as "he's older, and he's really fucked up, and he's broken down, and he's on the end of a moral bankruptcy". This batman lost his first son-like figure dick grayson that's one of the reason he lost his way. Another reason is that the destruction the black zero event did, the buildings superman destroyed, he hated superman's guts, his employees are suffering, his business/building in metropolis is destroyed. Lex was playing a part in making batman hates superman, sending the red letters, framing superman for the capitol house bombing. And that's where the quote "Hate blinds us until we become the monster we grew to fear.", he was blinded by his hatred to superman, he lost his way. It's easy saying it doesn't makes sense, because you're missing the whole thing. Batman grew his hatred on superman since metropolis, although he saved the world but bruce didn't see that, he sees the destruction, the deaths, "That son of a bitch brought the war to us 2 years ago, jesus alfred, count the dead, thousands of people. What's next? Millions?" The casualties and the destruction, and i quote alfred on what bruce has turned to "Men fall from the sky, and gods hurl thunderbolts, innocents die. That's how it starts, sir. The fever, the rage, the feeling of powerlessness. That turns good men, cruel."
I don't think it is? When asked about it, Snyder actually tried to justify Batman's killing by citing examples from the comics, as if he could genuinely be adapted that way and not as a pourposeful distortion. There's absolutely nothing in the movie that suggests that what's wrong with batman is the absence of a no-kill rule. Yes, there is something about resentment of what makes him fear, and of the wrongness of mudering an inocent man, but from what Snyder presented to us, he always did smash criminals to a pulp in a confrontation, and will continue to do so after his turning point, as we see in the warehouse fight.
@@joaomarcos2089 I've always thought exactly what Hi-Top said in the video is 100% true. Chris Terrio wrote a script where Batman didn't kill, branded people, and teetered on the edge with his first kill being Superman if he went through with it. And it's a great storyline. When directing, Snyder simply couldn't help himself adding shots of Batman blowing shit up because he thought it was cool. He later justifies it as not killing in interviews because he knows it was bad for the story. "I tried to do it in a technical way" "It's more manslaughter." Frankly, I'm disappointed, because with a few re-writes adding more context and backstory (maybe even just a small montage after the origin?) and Snyder taking out some of those shots of Batman kills, I think there was a great story here, but unfortunately the execution just wasn't there.
I didnt like BVS out of theaters either but BVS ultimate has grown to be my fav favorite movie.. as i learn to understand the movie i actually began to understand myself through the characters..very interesting.
The theatrical cut's editing effectively makes Batman the protagonist, which I imagine is another big part of why so many people had such a problem with it. It's structured in such a way that tricks you into taking his side, when the narrative as a whole is about how he's wrong. With that in mind, it's no wonder the Martha scene causes such a strong negative reaction - the audience is effectively having the same veil lifted from their eyes that Batman is, and that's a much bigger trick to pull on the viewer than it is on a character, especially with no exposition and the frenetic cutting breaking up some of the visual storytelling.
It would’ve been if it didn’t lie to the audience with its title. And if it didn’t fail it’s characters. The film whilst good, fails in its concepts and adaptation or portrayal of the most iconic superheroes of all time, whom are batman, superman and Wonder Woman
The Omega Effect - I might have to disagree with you on that! Their portrayal is like the most accurate ever! Wonder Woman, Pre-Superman, and with a Batman that was killing!
3 years and this movie that critics hated so much on is still talked about. People are now coming around to this amazing movie and it makes me so happy. ❤️
Same here. I watched it a few times since it released. Especially when the deleted scenes and the Ultimate edition finally dropped......it opened some eyes. Cheers
The Ultimate Edition is a fantastic film, fixes almost every issue, I never get tired of it. The fact that BvS was critically torn to shreds while The Last Jedi was lauded is hilarious to me, really shows the current state of film criticism.
Exactly. MoS and BvS happened with a clear vision from Snyder. It wasn't just an attempt to get a piece of CBM box office which marvel was enjoying. These 2 films had alot of heart in it. And no studio will ever dare to so something like this ever. They wanna play it safe by doing low budget attempts like Joker, Birds of Prey, Shazam etc.
¿¿?? Significant HOW?!?!? The director´s cut did NOTHING but explain why Superman got blamed by those bullets. That was literally the only thing. BvS still is one of the most BORING and GENERIC movies Ive seen this decade, filled with lazy writing and un-inspired cliches, director´s cut or not. I mean, don´t get me wrong, its ok if you enjoy the movie... I enjoy all kinds of shitty films (and I don´t mean it like I enjoy laughing at them, watching a bad movie, I mean I actually like them). But the director´s cut wasn´t "significant", it was meaningless.
@@gabrielp9646 um I mean just plot wise the movie as a whole makes alot more sense. The entire Africa sequence in the theatrical cut literally makes no sense and makes you fill in information while the directors cut fleshes out that whole sequence. And Luthors plan also is way more fleshed out and makes way more sense. And then it's characters. Supes and Clark were butchered in the theatrical. And it's just small additions that flesh out the character. Him staying after the capitol bombing and helping ppl while the first responder doesn't know how to react to his presence. We see ppl burning his effigy in the street with a mom shaking her head to her kid showing the audience that not everyone opposes supes. We have Clark investigating batman in Gotham. Batman was less brutalized in the theatrical but there's one 30 second clip that always pisses me off that it was cut. After he fights supes he goes to look for Martha in that time Alfred located her while listening and it's just a simple "I don't deserve you Alfred" but that line is super important because it's him basically apologizing and realizing Alfred was right the entire movie. Much like kingdom of heaven it's not the big shit that was cut it was little moments like that that make the theatrical a much worse experience. If you don't like it fine but ur objectively wrong. And also calling BvS generic when it's legitimately the most original and ballsy comicbook movie made is hilarious... You may not like it but calling it generic is just dumb. Like the fact that it's been 4 yeas and people still debate whether or not BvS was a good movie pretty much prove it was a good movie. Like any movie ppl discuss years after it's release that has people arguing deserves to be applauded.
@@rams3955 Im just going to repeat the same thing again: People didn´t hate this movie because of the plot-holes, or because they were "confused..." They hated this movie, because there was nothing good in it to love, and make them forget the bad stuff (because every marvel or DC movie is FILLED with plot-holes, and confusing moments to the "general audience"). The problem with BvS is how BORING, BASIC and GENERIC it was, and the un-inspired performances. Also, the apparent lack of care and work, in the script. I mean, for instance, you talk about Luthor´s plan... "Im going to push these two to the limit, till they hate eachother". That´s literally the same plan Zemo had in Civil War. The exact same plan Killgrave had in season 1 of Jessica Jones (when he pushes Luke and Trish to the limit, so he can control them, and make them fight Jessica). The same plan that villain Alexandra had in the Defenders TV show. The same plan that Madame Hydra had in Agents of Shield. The same plan that Poison Ivy had in Batman & Robin. The exact same plan that Loki had in the Avengers (2012). Do you start to understand what I mean, when I say boring and generic..?? And don´t get me started with Clark Kent´s journalist sub-plot, or with Batman´s "detective work" (or how GENERIC of those two things are in the movie). As I said in my first comment, the problem are not the plot-holes, or the fact that Luthor´s plan didn´t make much sense (in both versions). Its the infuraiting amount of tropes and cliches, and the lack of work. And no, the fact that people still argue about if the movie was good or not, doesn´t make it "good". I know SEVERAL people who say the Iron Fist TV show, or that Inhumans series, were good. That doesn´t mean anything, those were badly written TV shows. Just like with the SW prequels. I don´t care if you like them or not, those are badly written movies. I mean, many people did enjoy the final season of GOT, there are DOZENS of videos and essays about why it was good, on youtube. Does that make the series finale good?? xDxD (as I said, I like a bunch of bad movies. I truly love them. I don´t have the nerve to claim they´re "good", tho...) Writing is not a "magical art", that is subjective. Is also a craft, filled with rules and techniques. And BvS shits on all of those rules and techniques (but not in a good way, like movies like Martin, or the King of Comedy. More in a Fast & Furios 5/Olympus Has Fallen kind of way). They clearly don´t even know (or care) about the very BASICS of writing, like how to structure a story in 7 points, the importance of the transitions between the three acts, concepts like "show don´t tell", the difference between concrete and abstract exposition dialogue... Basic character arcs (please, tell me: What character arc does Alfred go through, in Bvs? Or Martha Kent? Or Wonder Woman? Or heck, even Lois Lane... Every good movie I can think of, has AT LEAST one VERY SIMPLE arc/progression line/journey, for every single one of his characters). To name one example: in Batman Begins, even Rachel´s boss/boyfriend has a character arc (he goes from being a coward who tells Rachel to stop investigating, to actually trying to stop the bad guys, and dying as a good guy). Even Carmine Falcone has an arc (he goes from being a complete asswhole who is in charge, to be Scarecrow´s pet inside Arkham).
The "NO Kill" Rule is *not* a fundamental part of Batman's character. If you put him in a cartoon, a movie, an elseworld story, the only fundamental thing that carries over is his parents being killed in front of him and him wearing a Bat costume. So cut the shit. He's killed in every major live action movie he's been in to date. Funny enough, or better yet hypocritically, people envision the character fighting like a brawler out of the Arkham games, breaking people's bone and beating them to the point of paralysis. But killing them is going too far? Yeah, okay...
It really is though, that's what makes this batman so fascinating, he has been pushed so far that he has broken his one rule. Also are you seriously using the arkham games and the Dark Knight films as proof that batman kills? Seriously? I get your trying to defend something you love in this version of batman, but at that point your just lying to yourself. You can't take the "Everytime Batman kills" compilations on youtube seriously. Especially when the biggest point of contention in TDK was that the Joker was trying to get batman to break his code by getting him to kill him.
I recently watched BvS and soon will watch the Ultimate Edition... I had a very similar change in thought... I no longer minded the weird complex Luthor... i looked at the Martha Scene through a different lense, and at its core brings it to the most purest lowest level of man. And that is one of few powerful undeniable "just is" statements... A Son loves their mother, and Humanizes *the Character of superman in BvS. To the Character to Batman... I totally agree. (*ultimate edition will most likely make it worthy and cannot wait for the Snyder Cut...
@Kermit Peanut stop. if you're gonna post your comment again then so will I: I disagree, you saying he kills is just very..well not Batman. I don't like to start hate threads, and I don't want to, but...... Your examples for him killing are not Batman at his core. One was because it was basically the only shot of winning, and the other are more due to the writer's tone, plus one isn't even really canon. He's killed on unique occasions and runs BUT he generally doesn't kill. Also, no, Ben's Batman is not the most accurate, Kevin Conroy's, Christian Bale's, and Bruce Greenwood's all have a more core understanding of Batman, which means y'know, not running over criminals with cars. Also, the best portrayed is purely up to bias and taste. And "people who hate Ben have no clue" is not a piece of evidence. Also, the 3rd "evidence" is just the 1st. I'm not denying it, but can you give sources on what Frank Miller and Kevin Conroy said, also that doesn't mean he's the best. The acting and physique are AGAIN up to personal preference. But the final "evidence" and the last sentence of the comment, NO, Zack Snyder is stuck in the past. TDKR, while good is probably the only thing he read. The reason I think BVS is bad is because they needed more development with Batman and one single movie is not enough to do that. Honestly, that's DC's fault, but TDKR is so effective because we KNOW who Batman is and TDKR totally changes that perspective. Look, I don't hate you for liking this film, but these statements anger me. Gritty/dark does not mean good. That is the edgy 13 year old in yourself. They don't even really flesh out how Robin affects Bruce. I'm bringing up again that with development, this film could've been good, but it wasn't.
I initially dismissed this film back when it first came out, just like everyone else. But then I watched Twin Perfect's amazing 3-part analysis series on it and now I totally respect it's ambition and what Snyder was going for.
@@LoverboyMedia For the record, both Snyders Superman and Batman are actually comic accurate... just depends on the comic. Man Of Steel is a straight up adaptation of Superman: Earth One, which was a more serious and "realistic" take on Superman.
@@Merdicano Same here, it's my favourite Superman storyline since they treat him as more than a power set with a smile, he's an actual man with doubts, fears, hopes... struggling to find acceptance and his place in a world that will never truly understand him. Only thing they really changed for the film was the jobs he goes through and the enemy being Kryptonians to make it an even more personal story for Clark (even then, the enemy alien motivation is still the same since they are seeking the last kryptonian and even address the world in the same manner). I can only laugh at "Superman fans" who hate the movie while claiming to be comic nerds since it's obvious they don't read any. I remember the Nostalgia Critic/Angry Joe review, both claiming they are comic fans, never once mentioning Earth One and acting like MoS is some new take never seen before lol. Fuckin pretenders. I'm not even a huge Superman fan or reader but I still know this stuff. Cavill is definitely my Superman.
BvS Ultimate Edition is an unmitigated masterpiece. I don't think that's an exaggeration. I've watched it 3 times , each with people who had never seen the original and they LOVED it. When I mentioned that the theatrical cut was an hour shorter, like clockwork, each of them said some version of "what the hell could have been cut from that? " At this point I'm convinced the only people who don't like it are people who already decided they hate it based on the ridiculous theatrical cut. The added scenes completely change the pacing and character dev. TC is a 6.5/10 and UE is a 9.5/10. It's drastically better in my opinion.
I went to go see this movie when I was about 10 years old, and I didn't really get why so many critics and fans hated it, because I absolutely loved the movie.
Kanga Janga the fuck we are some people think killing people for fun is right but there not heroes matter of fact I think most people are not heroes in the world as I think that people got to deserve that title so good cops,solders risking there life's, and a few others. But to a degree anyone could be a hero if your someone's idol but I'm talking about the type of person who most people in the world would consider a hero
Snyder should NEVER have been allowed anywhere near Superman! He's a super powers fan boy with no clue who Superman is as a character. Singer did it much better.
@@colbyjohndoe2120 heroes cant be just about killing or being entitled of being one or fame, its what people do to help and what the best people can be. Its so sad that people lost the meaning of hero or superHERO. Everyone is a hero in someone's eyes the question is, is someone willing to sacrifice for what's right?
It took 4 years to understand his movie, thats how complex his movie is. Man I love that guy. Grounded, Calm, even all these years of blaming him he never complains "why". He knew there is a hope even if he loses everything. He is a more of a Superman.
It's not THAT complex. It's just people have a certain expectation from a particular genre "omg it's a superhero movie hhow can it be political espionage and philosophical bro?"
"This is a human being, and he didn't ask for any of this." Zack Snyder mourns the loss of his daughter, and Superman desperately pleads for his mother's life They both have humanity This movie was too much too soon but in the best possible way. #ReleaseTheSnyderCut
@Dan of Steel "Wow... His mother´s name is Martha, like mine?? What does that mean? What else do we have in common..?? We´re do we come from..??" Bitch please, that´s the level of drama that a 16 year old would write, in his first school play. And don´t get me started on Kent´s journalist storyline, and Batman´s whole arc. That has to be one of the most boring and genericlly written things Ive ever seen. Naah, Man of Steel is a dope movie, but BvS suck balls man... I watched that movie 4 times, and I wouldn´t watch it again even if you paid me.
Hey Gabriel P I'm sure there are some MCU TH-cam videos comments sections where you can hang out and talk about how's it's the best thing since slice bread . All that and a bag chips and funny too !
@@billypowermax2264 This I find so annoyingly moronic. Can someone not DISLIKE a DC movie without being a MCU fan? Dafuq is this logic? This is one of the things that annoys me the most. That's no way to argue or dismantle his points, it's just petty.
@@billypowermax2264 Me: Man of Steel is great. You: "Im sure there are some MCU comment sections where you can hang out..." Wow, you literally didn´t even read my comment, before writing a response. At least try, dude :S:S
This movie is the new Blade Runner of the 21th century. It was a long time since i saw this film on cinema (4 years now), and I always love it and I never understood the bad reviews, but it seems that this movie is going to get the respect that deserves.
I think "Blade Runner" had bad marketing. Lots of people expected something like "Star Wars 2.5" because Harrison Ford, flying vehicles, special FX, whatever, and found a great neo-noir crime philosophical drama. It was bad marketing.
@@jadonsmith3224 yeah i just wanted some more vs because everyone else wanted that too. That said, i love the movie for what it is. A chapter that feels like it was first written into a comic like watchmen. I really appreciate this kind of movies.
Good point. It’s odd in a way they didn’t establish a base version of Batman before this movie. But the deal is people know Batman and I think the producers believed the masses were ready to be dumped head-first into the deep end of a new version of these characters. Turns out they weren’t quite there. Many regular folks (those unfamiliar with comic storylines like Injustice or post-Jason Todd Lonely Place of Dying) couldn’t see past Batman killing. But the point was he’d lost all hope and become the thing he hated most. The Martha scene, clunky as it was, showed Batman realizing this and taking steps to change his ways. Immediately killing a bunch of dudes aside, I think this would have been explored more in JL had Snyder been allowed to make the movies he planned on. It was clearly leading to either Injustice or some version of JL:War (with a Superman who was basically at the point Batman is in BvS, or maybe Darkseid controlled. Which ever). Anyway, Superman bringing hope and light back into Batman’s world seems like a decent way to tell their stories. I mean, there are odd things about it all (Death of Superman combined with TDKR?), but I was all in.
I love to look at this movie through the lens of my Christian faith. For me, Batman is essentially Apostle Paul. Some people might look at him as Peter, who became a "fisher of men," but I see him as Paul. Saul persecuted Christians until he had a miraculous encounter with Jesus. He was literally blinded by his own hatred, until Peter baptized and anointed him. Saul became the Apostle Paul, and he spread the Word of God farther than any other Apostle. Batman's journey in BvS is very similar. He judges and hates Superman before he knows the truth of who he really is. During their duel, he is stuck in a tunnel vision of hatred. As he drags Superman to his impending death, on the verge of becoming the demon that haunts his nightmares, Batman says, "I bet your parents taught you that you mean something, that you're here for a reason. My parents taught me a different lesson, dying in the gutter for no reason at all. They taught me the world only makes sense if you force it to." He walks toward the beaten and exhausted Superman, spear in hand, with his foot on Superman's throat, and he says, "You were never a God. You were never even a man." He delivers on his promise to make Superman bleed. And then, with his last breath, Superman pleads not for his own life, but for the life of his mother. Batman finally recognizes the humanity in Superman, and even sees himself in Superman, because he is now in the same position Bruce was in when he was nine years old: just a helpless child, powerless to prevent his mother's death. From that moment on, he sees Superman not only as a man, but as a brother, symbolized by their mothers sharing the same name. Superman's eventual death has the most profound effect on Batman. He goes from hating Superman for his mere existence to vowing to honor his memory by "building an alliance" to defend the Earth in his absence. Batman becomes the Apostle Paul of the DC Snyderverse, and I can't wait to see how his journey continues in Zack Snyder's Justice League in 2021.
I am a Christian too bro and absolutely loved Ben Affleck's redemption arc for his batman in this movie and how superman's death is what brought about that change in him and inspired him to become the batman he once was.
While I appreciate people turning around and loving this movie, it’s people like this that got Snyder fired from jl and ruined the vision he had for the dceu 😒
@@ryanblacker914 No, it was later revealed he had been fired before the family issues even occured and that WB used said family issues to cover up that he was actually fired
Awesome thing about that line is that Martha said something similar to clark when he came back and told her that he had found out where he came from. "I'm just worried that they'll take you away from me" she said, showing her fear of losing him to the world be it in a metaphorical sense and a literal one. The sad thing is that they did take her son from her, they berated him and eventually caused his death (by they I mean the world including lex who was more responsible for the latter). Both mothers feared this coming to pass long before it would happen because in some way they understand the nature of living sentient things(reason I'm not saying human nature is because Lara did not not how humans behaved but had an idea based on what I assume was her experience on krypton). that exchange of words between lara and jor-el are one of favorite interactions in the movie and overall universe simply because of the dialogue and the consequences that come with their actions. :)
BvS is one of those movies I really enjoy. There’s so much going on you catch something new every time you watch it. Especially when you watch it in context with Man of Steel and Snyders Justice League. What I appreciate about the whole story arch of the three movies is that MoS is about birth/life, BvS is about death and JL is about resurrection.
@@thewateversho223gaming absolutely. I freaking love this movie. I hated being told I was an idiot for loving it. Now, it seems people are coming around. To me, it's so different from any comic movie before and after it. Truly a unique take and ahead of it's time
People back when this movie was released were still under the impression that only Marvel type movies make good superhero movies. Now we're in a post-Endgame world and most people have had their fill of Marvel movies and looking for something different
THAT’S WHAT IM SAYING! I truly believe this movie is going to end up like Watchmen. People hated it at first but realized how truly special it is years later.
@@supermagnumable I agree. I loved bvs . I love that wb went dark and gritty. It works best as a batman movie as well it should because it was the first batman since nolan. One of my favorite comic book movies ever!
The only two fuck ups with this film. They needed to explain more as to why Bruce crossed his line of killing and the theatrical release was a mis step. Otherwise I adore this film it's cinematography and in all the balls of this movie
it deconstructed superheroes when marvel was propping them up..d.c. fans and marvel fans united feeling betrayed by snyder...looking back its way smarter then we thought...and i liked the film back then...despite its hate...i enjoy that over justice league and avengers embracing superheroes..lame...whats so original about that?..
@@razkable you have to deconstruct the superhero genre in order to build them up again. That's why ZSJL feels so rewarding; is not only because of the dark and gritty aesthetic, but celebrating the greatness of the human heart. The power to choose to rise again, stronger, United and with hope. I knew that was meant to be like that, it HAD TO.
I made the comment to my wife after watching it the 2nd time in the theaters that this movie would be like Blade Runner... hated upon release and finally appreciated for what it was much later. When I saw the Ultimate Ed. I knew that comparison (which I qualified at the time) was accurate. BvS is truly heartbreaking.
Nah screw that, people joked around that my movie critique card was revoked, i would for ever explain and counter debate why the film was great to these so called critics. Anyway , i ask .._. Where were the fans at ? And why now and not then, this is why people need to go to the movies and pay attention to the dam movie .
Do you sincerely believe this guys reversal of attitude toward the film based on his explanations? All he did was state the entire plot over the course of the video as Snyder intended, he's literally insulting all BvS fans lmao
This is incredibly well written and put together. I've loved this movie from the beginning but you've shown things I never even noticed that makes me love it more. Glad you got to put this up, great job 👏
It’s strange when people gripe about solely 'Affleck killing' - they cherry-pick this one aspect of the film and ignore the story arc. This Batman is clearly established to be a different Batman, not in his right mind and in a different place. He has lost his hope, he lost his belief in promises, he is suffering from ptsd from untreated trauma, and he dehumanizes criminals as he has taken to branding them! As Alfred directly interpolates “[he has] new rules” and “everything has changed”. As Bruce says “we’ve always been criminals”, showing he sees himself as the same as them. He sees himself as fallen. A man identifies “there’s a new kind of mean in [Batman]”, showing this change is recent. Crime-fighting was once a noble pursuit for Batman, but his “fever, rage, the feeling of powerlessness” turned a “good man cruel.” Power corrupts, indeed, but powerlessness corrupts as well. BvS explored Batman’s damaged psychology by taking the character to his darkest place so he can finally confront his trauma to begin healing from it. This film was a redemption and rebirth. Also his violence was reactionary and in self-defense, this would be considered manslaughter. His first MURDER, which was planned and premeditated, would have been Superman. THEN he would have gone over the edge of “no return”.
It is very telling that the reconsiderations over the Snyder vision have multiplied. I see more and more of these videos. And rewatching the full cuts of the movies, in my estimation these are masterpieces.
Never understood the accusation that Zack Snyder was a hack director, never understood how people could have blamed ZS for the failures of Justice League. You have brought a level of empathy ive never before seen in video essays. This is nothing short of wonderful. Ive defended MoS and BVS online for ages even against HiTop Films video essay. Never have I witnessed a more misunderstood movie and director. Real shame you had to carry these feelings for so many years.
He's a hack because he takes worlds best superheroes and butchers their characters. Trying to show superman is jesus, and unnecessary slow mo, useless boring discussions all the way
Exactly. Once you ignore the crying Marvel kids, you realize how good these movies were. I loved JL, BvS, and MOS since the beginning, even though im in the minority here. But, Zack captures the comics more accurately than most people realize. For example, the beginning of Justice League, was right out of a Batman comic page.
@@theminotaur8015 um, the beginning of JL was a Whedon shoot. As was 75% of the final movie. I point to the scene in BvSUE where Superman is trying to save people after the bombing, knowing that everything thinks he's responsible. Because that's not what matters.
@@northwindkey Then they both did good. With Whedon's side, I never liked how he brightened the colors. But, fuck yea...The bombing scene is the very essence of Superman. Doing what's right, but also realizing that he failed in not catching it first.
This was surprisingly level-headed. I've always felt this movie was solid despite a few missteps. Everything made sense within the context of the world Snyder had created.
Why are we limited to hit the like button just once? This video would get like 100 likes per day from me. Batman v Superman's Ultimate Edition is such a gorgeous film. The struggles with the theatrical release disappeared the second I finished the Ultimate Edition.
I went thru the same process from hating the movie to loving it. It was such an unusual arc that I mulled over for months right up to the epiphany that this might be one of the best movies I’ve ever seen.
@Tigar0422 Arkham Yes, many of you keep saying that about Batfleck, but Im pretty sure Christian Bale´s Batman portrayed that aspect of Batman way, way better. Heck, half of his arc in Batman Begins was about that, Rachel even says to Bruce in the final scene: "Now I understand. This is your mask (while she touches his face), Batman is the real person".
@@gabrielp9646 You're comparing the character development of Batman from a solo film to a Batman in a joint production. Do you not see the flaw in that?
@@gracialonignasiver6302 I could compare it to solo films like Batman Begins, Batman 1989 or Batman: Mask of the Phantasm, and the result would be the same...
Wayne yes. But not Bruce. As a famous person and a vigilante he has three faces. The one people see, the one criminals see and the one no one sees (except Alfred).
the knightmare scene is critical to the 5 movie arc Zack Snyder had planned. And it is not a nightmare, it is Bruce receiving memories from Future Bruce because Barry Allen is going through time and interacting with him. Only Bruce gets it because he is the only one affected by Barry Allen traveling through time. You know Zack Snyder had that planned because he is christian and believes in souls, if souls are unique and two of the same are sharing the same position in time, they should receive the same information at the same time. And for christians memory is stored in the soul. That means Batman was actually being killed by Superman while Barry Allen went back to the past. Future Bruce might as well have left his bunker as a distraction so no one would notice Flash's absense. The difference between Future Bruce and Past Bruce is that I think Snyder would have that scene play like that all over again on JL 3, except Bruce consciously does it knowing he might die. And knowing Snyder, the tension when Superman put his hand on Bruce's chest like in his "vision" would be solved by Barry fixing the past right on time, but that future would be erased.
That whole scene of Neil Degrasse Tyson and all that "Superman dilemma" is PURE ART. On par with the bathroom scene of Joker after killing the 3 guys. Hell, is as good as Jonathan Kent looking at kid Clark with the red cape with Zimmer's score!
Took me a year to find this but man this is probably the best video on this movie I've ever seen. I've loved the Snyderverse since its inception, but its fascinating to see into the mind of someone who didnt understand and downright hated it evolving their entire perspective on the material. Massive Kudos to you, you have earned a subscriber in me today.
"It's okay to change your perspective" is SUCH an important take right now. Snyder films somehow never come out at the right time.
That's another way of saying he's ahead of time.
Zack Snyder's films are streets ahead
yea... just like Watchmen
Even Chris Nolan says that his movies are ahead of its time.
Christopher Nolan said the same thing.
"Why do you still prefer DC after all this time?"
"You wouldn't get it."
@@coc8648 hehehehehe sure
Antonio Torres I like how DC nerds act like DC pumps out amazing movies lmao. They really don’t lmao
The Darkfrost have you watched Joker?
@@thedarkfrost2351 Not consistently, but what I respect about DC movies is that they take risks. Whether it ends up good or bad, they try to do something different. Their biggest sin was trying to be Marvel when they could have been great on their own (Suicide Squad and Justice League are the best/worst examples of this). Thankfully, WB came to realize how much that doesn't work and started doing their own thing in recent years, to much better results (though I personally didn't like Aquaman and Birds of Prey, they were still generally well-liked, so there's that). Despite their shortcomings, The Dark Knight Trilogy remains the untouched peak of the genre with Joker joining it, which shows how great DC can do when they really try.
Marvel is pretty great too, don't get me wrong, I'm not hating on it and I understand why people would prefer it over DC. As opposed to DC, their quality is actually consistent. But its problem is that too many movies feel the same and are often done the safest way possible. I personally consider Infinity War to be the crown jewel of the MCU, and why? It was ballsy, it broke the formula, it did what no one expected. I think it's miles ahead of Endgame, which had its share of epic moments and an incredible final battle, but it was all standing on a really sloppy story when the writers couldn't write themselves out of a corner. Outside of the MCU, I find every Spider-Man movie very rewatchable, Spider-Verse and Spider-Man 2 being my favorite Marvel movies ever. They are cinematic superhero magic at its finest. There was this air of grandiosity and spectacle to them that I think MCU rarely captures. None of Fox's Marvel movies stuck with me as much as Infinity War, Spider-Man 2 and Spider-Verse, but I respect them for taking risks, like DC. Deadpool paved the way for more R-rated superhero movies, Logan paved the way for more experimental genre-bending superhero movies, and The New Mutants didn't exactly do anything yet, but it's something refreshing, or at least it looks like it. Unfortunately, I don't see these effots get nearly as much appreciation as they should because most people were too busy screaming for Fox to give their rights to Marvel. And now that it happened, I doubt we will see these experimentations again except for Deadpool, but that's already a safe bet at this point. I might be wrong, and if I am I might change my mind, but this is how it is so far.
I tangled myself into discussion a bit too much, but my point is, I like both Marvel and DC. But the reason I prefer DC is that they're trying something different and take the genre further more often than Marvel.
@@christiangay793 WB had some serious production problem during SS and JL. And reason why recent DCU movies doing good is Endgame was MCU peak. MCU hype is decreasing, so does DC movies tend to be more well-recieved in public, meaning less-wagon riders on hate. Also more DC flops, more ppl root DC movie because those ppl actually know DCU cartoon and knows the potential of DC movies. Thats what im thinking.
*Me Returning to social media after 3 years*
*Watching people Praising BvS*
"Men are still good"
That's so true and I couldn't relate more
I hope "Men are still good" becomes a meme format.
Alicia Ross follow Batman and let it inspire to make it a meme
Went In listening to the hipo critics trash it . I was like oh no this is going to suck . Towards the end of the film could not believe this was the same film they trashed . Thought it was freaking fantastic . People forget about a year before this movie came out Disney was trying to buy DC comics .
"we fight...we kill, we betray one another"
What sucks about the "Save Martha" scene is that so many people focus on the "Martha" and not the "save" Clark was basically admitting defeat. He didn't care if he died or not, just to save.
Yeah still not a Great execution, Mom would have been more impactful of a Line TBH
@@forickgrimaldus8301 what? If you were pinning someone down and you’re about to kill him, and you’re blinded by rage and pure hate, and that dude then says “save my mom” would you stop? You don’t give a fuck about him or his family, it’s because Batman heard the name Martha, PTSD came into play and made him think for a second, he starts to realize that he hit absolute rock bottom, he then makes a promise to Superman that Martha will not die tonight, and even in the end of the movie he says that Superman was more of a human than he (Batman) ever was, and that he failed him in life, and won’t fail him in death.
ps: sorry if my English is a bit weird, I’m not a native speaker, and I haven’t slept in 30+ hours
@@ElieBoutros1 Also I'd like to add Batman's mother's name is also Martha, if you rewatche the scen when Clark said "save Martha" he had flashback to his own mother *Martha* who got shot.
@@mijaroprime9509 yeah exactly, forgot to mention that, hearing his mother’s name when he was about to kill Superman gave him some sort of PTSD, and kinda made him snap out of that kill mentality and reminded him why he’s Batman in the first place
Not only that but it’s not hard to see how Bruce would be affected by that name when his whole life was changed after that night and the whole point of him being Batman is solely from that night
When you think of Batman's arc as no longer becoming judge, jury, and executioner, the title "Dawn of Justice" gains a new meaning for me.
THANK YOU. I 100% agree
After he decides to not kill Superman, he immediately goes to kill a bunch of goons. Does the Dawn of Justice only last thirty minutes to an hour tops?
@@theofficialvernetheturtley338 Old habits die hard? :)
@@mrsnufflekins3479 Maybe so. I suppose we'll see in The Snyder Cut.
Never thought of that.
After a couple of years defending this movie... It's SO nice to see someone like you who hated it at first say: ,,I was wrong"
Thank you!
Exactly Red. I loved MOS, BvS, and JL from the start. They are much closer to the comics than most people realize. Zack is good at that.
@*xokireiキレイ* The flight theme is the real deal
I only saw the better cut of BvS and never understood the hate. It wasn’t perfect and doomsday was wasted but it was still a good movie. I hated how the justice league made everyone except Superman look like a joke.
It feels kinda good to be proven right after so many years; just kinda wish people caught on faster so the snyderverse wouldn't have died
@*xokireiキレイ* Oh hell yes. Snyder and Nolan humanized Superman perfectly and stayed true to the idealism of Superman as well. The score for that movie is phenomenal!
I feel like people jumped on the bandwagon of hating on BvS and that’s why it got so much disrespect
I think that's exactly what he meant by his re-enactment at the beginning. Instead of sitting down and thinking it through, people jumped online and blasted the movie. Jumped on the bandwagon and became entrenched in their hate.
You’re right
I jumped on the bandwagon, day 1, while I saw Batman kill It felt wrong in my eyes and I wanted someone to tell me thay it was
I was like 16 or 15 when it came out, a stupid kid but now as a 18 I decided to rewatch it and, while the action is too loud for me, I enjoyed it and saw it with a different perspective
NP138
I never saw Burton’s movies I was too busy developing in the womb, I saw the first Nolan Batman movie but not the rest because I didn’t give a shit about them and Snyder, after knowing what the character of Batman was, It felt off
@craig lofton So you must be one of the hate wagon? Outta here!
Mr. Friendship is he not allowed to dislike a movie?
I really want to say Batman always had the “don’t kill”rule but he went to the “idc if they die” route after Joker killed Robin. That’s why they showed Robin’s defaced statue to show the mindset he was in.
Great line in a comic book, Batman thinking about Joker “how many more people will I kill, by letting you live?”
Yeah, Batman's no-kill rule is something he struggles with, especially when it comes to the Joker. By refusing to kill the Joker, he's putting a lot of people at risk, and he knows it.
This to me was obvious watching the film. Don’t know how folks didn’t see it
"I'm the world's greatest detective. I'll find out who hired you. And I will break them too. You can get your own damn help."
- Batman to KGBeast -
Yeah I agree with your thinking. I don't believe Snyder's Batman was always a killer. In fact in the ultimate edition there are several moments that allude to the fact that Batman has become much more brutal and vicious only recently - since the Battle of Metropolis between Zod and Superman. Alfred and Bruce have a conversation where Alfred says that Bruce has never branded criminals before ( referencing the Bat symbol brand he uses in the movie against criminals), and that his methods have become so much more brutal. He is basically reprimanding Bruce for going down a darker path.
The scene where Clark first learns about the Batman is when he hears about Batman's escapades from a news broadcast on the Daily Planet tv. If you listen to the news reporter in the broadcast, she explains that reports indicate Batman has been getting more violent lately. Then when Clark is in Gotham at a slum trying to find information about Batman, an old guy with a sratch ticket tells Clark that Batman has become more brutal and angrier in recent months and to beware.
I think the events of metropolis, and the revelation that there are superpowered beings capable of mass genocide, and the fact that he honestly has no way to stop it (being completely powerless against a superman-level threat until he learns about Kryptonite) traumatised and demoralizes Bruce. This leads him to a dark place with a sense of powerlessness and hopelessness that he takes out on criminals, reflecting his more brutal approach (Alfred actually alludes to Bruce's sense of powerlessness at one point).
Also we don't actually see him kill anyone until the car chase scene where he is trying to get the kryptonite from the transport truck. Every criminal he interacts with before this he spares (simply branding them). I think at the time of the car chase Bruce is in a "few deaths are necessary to save the many" type mentality. The kryptonite and the chance it has to defeat Superman and prevent potential planet-wide genocide is just too important for Bruce to let get away, so he breaks his kill rule in-order to stop the mercenaries and procure the kryptonite. The few deaths (the mercenaries) are necessary to save the many (the entire population of earth), and is therefore deemed acceptable enough to break the no-kill rule. We've actually seen this in the comics with the main Batman: He kills Darkseid with a Godkiller gun during the Final crisis event. He feels killing Darkseid to save the universe is an acceptable exception to his rule.
I’ve always liked this film, but I love the Ultimate Edition!
James' YouNiverse honestly the ultimate edition was great but I feel like it really just spelled out a lot of stuff for people instead of having them just use their heads to know what’s happening
It was great bro
@@AlienBee lol that’s pretty much what it is at its base form but tbh it does a little more in my opinion
Hell yeah man!
Watched it again last night. I enjoyed it!
I’m so unbelievably happy to see more and more people finally begin to understand this movie, even accepting it and loving it. Brings a tear to my eye
too bad that because of this hate on BvS snyders JL trilogy wont happen. It would be so freakin epic.
@@realonepx9885 the whole universe was messed up at that moment. Not just justice league. Suicide squad was destroyed with reshoots, the batman( with a story that follows into bvs by including joker and killing robin) was cancelled and now the universe feels like a copy paste of marvel
I think this film was great, especially the ultimate edition, I honestly did not like lex luther in the film (or his offspring etc). It could have been done better for reals where lex is concerned and especially how his motives were forced into the then upcoming film of justice league which was rushed into production and it showed...I love Snyder and I wish he was left to all his powers to make this film and Justice league what he untended...BvS was awesome!...These versions of both Batman and Superman were awesome...I felt his motivation to save Martha..seriously I did, and that saving Martha sequence was some of the best action I have ever seen in any super hero film or action film...period!
this honestly doesn't even scratch the surface of how deep the film goes into old lore and symbology. it's a masterpiece of mythic proportion. one of the reasons people hate the batman pivot is because they don't understand CLASSIC story telling. all the characters in the film a representations of something greater, and therefore not necessarily normal "human" characters. it's a classical tale in the modern day. it's king arthur, it's beowulf... it's superman
@@josepholsen7450 I bet you're gonna called dumb. Very dumb. Even though I completely agree with what you're saying, that's just how these stupid people react to this... It's sad. And because of this, we'll never get anything like this again... Probably
Loving Batman v Superman:
- It's not possible!
- No, It's necessary
Lol good interstellar reference
Abraham Jackson ;)
Snyder, Nolan, Goyer and Terrio are all responsible for the great writing within BVS and MOS.
People that critique BVS or MOS without acknowledging the great amount of character development connected through philosophy, religion and some of the greatest cinematic references; is giving a disservice to the beauty in these 2 movies.
The famous and most hated "Martha" scene has so much more to offer than the typical meme. It connects to "the greatest movie of all time" Citizen Kane and translates a modern approach to the biblical story of Michael Archangel. I'm not religious but if you google image search that story you'll see a more in depth representation of Batman (as Michael) and Superman's (as the devil) relationship; that'll show why the usage of "Martha" was the only logical choice.
Id go more in depth if someone asks.
@@kevinlinsley9594 Please don't, lol. Let me stop you right there.
@@kevinlinsley9594 most people hating and making videos on it just want to get a piece of the pie. Your boy ralph got his career from it
I think it's the comics that have made our perspectives strict. My girlfriend has only watched the main Batman movies and when she watched BvS the first time she loved it and understood the movie completely the Ultimate edition ofc. When I asked her what hero favorite scene was she said "I love the Martha scene you can see Bruce realises he's the villain and not Superman"
wow, what a great insight.
Yes! I understand what zack was going for in that scene. It was not executed properly and people looked at it im the most superficial way, like our moms share the same name yay. But xack planted seeds, for example when Bruce tells Clark, men are brave. He doesn't view supes as human, as a man. But when he realizes he has a family, a mom, he sees the humanity in clark. He sees he has become joe chill, he becomes merciful because he sees his young self in clark. At least that's how I saw it. I think if clark would have said save my mom, it would have been more effective.
Exactly this is what happened with me... I loved MARTHA scene
U and ur gf are smarter than majority of comic fans who’s hated this film
Yea, but right after that scene he goes on killing spree
This movie, to me, has aged like fine wine.
I have just rewatched both movies basically since they released and i can't believe i used to think of these as "ok" movies.
(i did watch the ultimate edition of BvS tho)
craig lofton do you really have to comment this? I mean it’s your opinion but no need to comment that.
Facts. Watching MOS and BVS back to back is amazing
I just re watched the ultimate edition today. That movie, along with MOS and the upcoming Snyder cut of JL, will be cult classics for years to come.
@@Theo-bk6qj Craig is an idiot looking for attention.
Easily one of the best video essays on film I've seen on youtube
I feel like the voice exaggeration was kinda cringe in the beginning good video either way
I absolutely enjoyed this video and took a new perspective. I had a different perspective on BvS and life lesson. I loved it in a different way
you obviously didnt see ''why you are wrong about BvS'' videos
I wanted to like your comment but it was already at '300' likes lol
"It's a lot harder to hate someone when you see their humanity dehumanized and distilled down to nothing more than a symbol, a token. It's easy to feel true resentment towards someone, to hate them, to wish them harm, but the moment you see them as a human being--a human being just like you --the moment you start to empathize with that human being, that's the moment that hate is defeated."
Thank you for making this video, and sharing those profound thoughts! Seriously, thank you! Getting to heart of what the movie was trying to say all along.
Absolutely!
I don't hate Snyder. I just hate his incredibly shitty take on these characters.
@@flatebo1
the fact that you don't like the movie doesn't make it shitty, growp up
@@josehoraciofernandez5117 No, the fact that it's a shitty movie makes it a shitty movie. The fact that you like the movie doesn't make it good.
@@flatebo1 yeah, whatever you say troll
It's funny that 5 days ago when Zack Snyder mentioned Batman in his panel he said "my Batman" which shows you how aware he is of how different his interpretation of Batman is to other interpretations. it's a story of a broken man who lost too much and changed in the process with his anger directed towards all these people that "he" considers as criminals including Superman. Which in my interpretation the mentioning of his mother's name "Martha" brought him back to the reality, to the beginning, the trigger of what made him become this knight in the dark to what he was when he first started and what he has become.
Superman's story in this movie is so fascinating to me and makes me love this character so much. Despite everything that's happening to him, all the false news, the hate, being called a god and still he's got a will and convection of steel and I really wish I could be like him in the face of distress and misery. It's a story of a man with a beautiful and kind heart trying to adapt with an environment that's not his.
I love Batman v Superman.
Beautiful words :-)
@@josehoraciofernandez5117 Thank you :)
At the end of the day it's a matter of opinion and I wished that the majority of people saw the movie the way I saw it which was not the case. Maybe people came to this movie expecting another superhero movie with a lot of action and epic moments and not expecting a thought provoking one which made them hate it. And if you think about it this theme of testing your characters, putting them under impossible odds and making them react in very "human" ways started in man of Steel.
Clark not saving his father and his father sacrificing himself to protect his son from being exposed to the world when he knows that his son is not ready, such an impactful scene.
Or the one with Zod forcing Superman to choose between killing him or letting the family die, a situation in which there was no happy outcome which was emphasized in Superman's heartbreaking scream after he snapped Zod's neck.
Something you don't usually see in superhero movies and still people criticized that movie for both of those scenes. Zack Snyder is not the best director there is but he makes movies that you come back to after years later and see them in a new and different light and he actually said it himself, his movies are directed to the adult audience not the kids.
I would go further, perhaps all Wayne ever did was beat up criminals to give vent to his rage. He failed to change anything because he does not want change; he wants an endless army of evermore grotesque criminals for him to smash. He is addicted to his own anger and like all addicts he needs ever greater doses. He may have started out with a code, do not kill,but ultimately, that would never do. This is one deeply traumatized child who has spent thirty-five years in arrested development, never getting passed the day his world was shattered. You see it throughout the film: his inability to form relationships, his old car, his old fashioned house, the drugs, the booze... This is not Batman as a hero, this is Batman as villain.
I think everything you need to know about this batman is from the shot of robins broken costume up for display with no distinction or commentary needed,
@Kermit Peanut Joker survives Killing Joke - that was the point.
The “men are still good” sequence is one of the best sequences of the movie which signifies batman’s character development throughout the movie
Agreed
Repo man yes. Lex literally killed superman and bragged about it to Bruce’s face. The fact that Bruce didn’t kill him then speaks volumes.
I love that part. People claim the movie is “too dark” and “has no hope” but that line is the most hopeful thing ever
That scene makes me feel manly
Superman's sacrifice makes him recover faith in humanity. Superman inspiring hope and taking the best out of people. And they still say it's not a true Superman. People are superficial and want Superman to go smiling like an idiot the whole time.
Me, who has liked BvS from the start : “They called me a madman.”
You liked the theatrical release?? That movie got the hate it deserved but the ultimate edition forsure changed my opinion on it.
@@AngelXO96 Yes the theatrical cut wasn't very good it had its flaws but I don't think it was as bad as the critics claimed, rotten tomatoes has 28% rating for it which is absolute bullshit and a lot of people/critics accepted that when they saw the movie the second time they found it much better bcoz they missed a lot of important points during the first time and some even apologized to Snyder for being too harsh on him so yeah it ain't that bad..!!!
Mohit Yadav idk man all the cut out scenes were really important to explain the first half of the movie, without that the set up to the Batman and Superman fight made absolutely no sense apart from a dick measuring contest. But with the ultimate edition that changes big time. To me the theatrical version was a 4/10 but the ultimate edition is easily a 8/10 and Zack Snyder’s best movie so far.
@@AngelXO96 yeah but iis rotten tomatoes no one should trust it
Tired of pretending that Zack can't direct action
I just hope Zack Snyder has seen this video so he knows we actually appreciate his work.
Awesome work.
craig lofton you must be an mcu fan
@craig lofton learn english first..
@Craig lofton that's your opinion, also nothing's being buried, his vision continues.
Snyder cut HBO MAX 2021
@craig lofton yup totally a mcu
So smart guy can pls tell me why doesn't Batman kill if u love both mcu and dceu so much
Appreciating Zack Snyder's vision is absolutely the wrong takeaway from this video.
BvS and most of Zack Snyder’s other works are like coffee, it’s an acquired taste and the more you watch it or give it a chance, the more you like it
He has got a God gifted ability to make films which gets better after every rewatch.
at first, I did not like coffee at all until I am 7 years old, not joking, I legitimately and still to this day, praise coffee, especillay indonesian coffees.
no
Or maybe it’s just average at best
in fact i used like mos when it came out but every time i watch it i see how mid it is.bvs didn’t like.watched the ultimate edition & liked it even less.
BvS and Civil War came out about the same time. Are we still talking about Civil War?
💯
we arent taking about civil war because it was good but forgettable. we are talking about BvS because it was terrible.
@@EE-oh7kg so you always bring up bad memories? Why would you want to keep the memory of a terrible movie?
Yes
@@EE-oh7kg fam the last 30 mins of that movie were good. The other parts were average at best. RDJ & Chad carried that movie.
I feel like BVS is becoming a cult classic.
Donald Moxham i knew it would end up this way and i love it
Donald Moxham no
Indeed. I’ve always loved the ultimate edition. In a way I was not a fan after seeing it in theaters. But after seeing the UE. I was in love and couldn’t wait for JL.
It is becoming a explosion classic
When the Snyder Cut comes out, this movie will be even better. Remember, this is part 2 of a 5 story Superman/JL arc and is filmed as such
Guy: BVS IS BAD
Everyone: BVS IS BAD
Guy: BVS IS GOOD
Everyone: BVS IS GOOD
What guy?
@@DivvayKhatri he means that there are people who are jumping wagons.
Sheeple go baa baa
I never thought BVS was bad. Just viewing audiences have had lower viewing standards since every comic movie isn't doing the Marvel-itis non sense. And even they are starting to finally break that bad habit
I mean, I still think it's just solid😂
Actually, what HiTop is describing WAS the point of Batman's brutal action scenes. As Snyder himself said, he didn't shoot those scenes like that because he loves the explosions but because he wanted you to feel uneasy with how brutal this Batman has become.
All Batman action scenes have a lot of violence that would realistically kill people. This is the only movie that's directed in a way to make you feel that impact.
Me: Maybe mankind was a mistake
Bailey: Posts Why I Love #10
Me: Men are still good.
"we fight...we kill... we betray one another..."
Reynolds mate, wanna try this omelet I cooked you?
@@batmanfan6207 "But we can rebuild ... "
@@maskofshy "we can do better..."
I'm gonna say it I understood that reference
I'm really surprised so many people didn't catch the "Martha's Scene" at the first as you did, my Friend. Snyder treated us like adults, but we weren't ready for that. At least some of us.
you really think people don't understand this? I'm not trying to be rude, but it's not difficult to understand what's going on there. People get it, we just felt like hit over the head with the message. It's not that we didn't get it.
As a hardcore DC fan I don't understand why Batman "hates" Superman so much to the point of murder in the fist place. Batman is the worlds greatest detective. He can't figure out Superman just saved the planet from Zod. Which from MoS that is so obvious. For me it felt contrived to go along with the reason they are fighting in the first place. So for 2 hours and 15 minutes I watch a movie slowly build to a fight that feels contrived. Plus I know this story is lifted from Dark Knight Returns, and just doesn't compare.
You are free to enjoy this film. If you get that message out of the movie that's great! I just think it's off base to assume intelligent people criticize the movie because they are not smart enough to get it.
@@faz6877 My guy, you don't know why Batman hates Superman, then go watch the movie and pay attention. 🤦♂️
you dont need 100 iq to get that scene lmao.
like what @faz said it felt really over the head,the environment was intense and you just blurb out 1 name it ruins everything.
bvs was "okay" not bad not good before that scene but after that aside from SW scene everything else is shit.
like how they literally made batman useless here and in JL.
i prefer whedons version rather than snyder btw.
@@faz6877 You didn't watch the movie properly....or while watching, you had particular mindset...
@@SanjaySarjal-fs6rl The fact you are defending the "Martha" scene proves you didn't watch the movie properly. You were obviously going to approve of any pos Snyder slapped a BvS label, which hurts the product for the rest of us.
I do find it funny you guys pat yourself on the back like the "Martha" scene is something hard to figure out. Believe me, we all get it! The part we don't get is how you can give a pass to such cringeworthy execution.
The funny thing is back in 2016 I remember fans of bvs saying people would eventually come around to understanding the movie and haters of said movie said “you’re crazy! Hell no!”
Now I’ve seen you and a few other youtubers slowly coming around (:
It's a good movie not the best but good
Trevor Philips and there’s others that think it’s the best :D
It’s all just difference in opinions! That’s part of what this video is about!
It's my favorite superhero movie of all time ♥️
I wonder if in the years to come, we will see other divisive films be viewed more favorably by the public? Does anyone else think that after episode 9, "The Last Jedi" will be up for re-evaluation?
@@ActionfigureGeek I agree. TLJ is nowhere near as layered and complex as BvS, but all the same, I think it's still a contemplative, powerful and exciting SW film. Like BvS, it was unfairly maligned by the fans (but at least it still had support from the critics whereas BvS did not). My hope is that after the sequel trilogy wraps, people will revisit TLJ and celebrate it for what it does right, and maybe reexamine/find a new appreciation for the parts that they didn't like at first. We've seen the same thing happen lately with the SW prequels.
The criticism this movie received has always been one of the most mind boggling things I've ever experienced. I absolutely loved it upon my first viewing in the cinema in March 2016. In fact I'd go as far as to say I was blown away by if. So much that I paid to see it a further 3 times... Then, when the Ultimate Edition came out on Blu-ray, it only served to further improve what I already thought was a masterpiece and make the story more coherent.
The fact that it's been so universally panned is a farce and it's great to see so many more people finally starting to understand and appreciate it.
It's not that mind boggling, it's a huge mess and it's still pretty garbage. The good in it is basically everything it took from source material
Negative viral marketing is a thing. Who was the most motivated in 2016-2017 to see a DCU fail? Who benefitted the most?
I was a Snyder fan without evening knowing it. When I was younger I saw 300, Watchmen, Sucker Punch and that Owls movie in the theatre. And I just went there seeing he was the director and was just like “I liked the other films he did, I’ll check it out”
Then when it came to him starting the DCEU and making MOS, I was very pumped since I hated Superman Returns and I knew he would make a crazy Superman movie that would show him fighting and using his powers against other powerful beings.
I remember watching BvS in the theatre with my parents and I was freaking about about the mother’s having the same name and I thought it was an awesome movie. Then after when I asked my parents about it, they said it was really long and the Martha thing was funny. I was so upset and I couldn’t believe what they were saying. Then after the weekend opening, I realized I was the weird one for liking the movie lol. But I’m glad everyone is liking it now.
before this movie only 0.1% of people knew batman's mom ,and after BvS everyone's dissing abt it.
I was the weird one,too.
I liked the movie when it came out too. Though the negative spread out so fast but i still believed in time, the movie will get its justice ....
They just don't underestimate it bro
@@mrsakamoto4330 the thing is. The movie explains it. It's like everyone went in with their brains turned off
This movie has reflected what happened in real life.
Zack Snyder is similar to Superman and Batman in the movie that he had created.
And some of us who hate this movie are similar to the people in the movie who hated and feared Superman and Batman.
Superman is human, Batman is human, we are human, and Zack Snyder is human too.
It ties to together in an awesome unexpected way.
I HATED Batman V Superman when I first saw it in cinemas, but after Justice League I can't help but see how much good we had in BvS that was tarnished by that god awful team up. I was wrong and I actually appreciate what Zack gave us in 2016
The real problem was: The film was marketed as “OmG Batman is fighting Supermán!!” But in reality is a “Batman meets Superman”, that’s why the “Dawn of Justice” subtitle was there but people didn’t get it
This is exactly why so many people didn't get the movie it was much more than the 2 duking it out, it was about the 2 world's colliding, 2 philosophies clashing. A man who has lost his way Vs a man trying to find his way. LeX was brilliant in the film Jesse Isenberg just didn't do a great job because we all just saw him as Jesse Isenberg.
Yes i kinda agree, should've just use Dawn Of Justice title instead of BvS. It's like youtube clickbait even tho the content is good.
wow this is a great observation, if the title was Dawn of Justice.
Zack even explained that it was purposely named as Batman V Superman not Batman Vs Superman.
@@clickycrust After what chris terrio said about the matter, its all come together. The title "Batman V Superman" is nothing but a pure marketing choice.
I actually thought BvS was good from day 1
Same, I've got friends who love it NOW but I loved it since I watched it
And watching the ultimate cut only makes the experience much more better
I loved Affleck as Batman from the beginning and my only gripes were easily fixed with the Ultimate Edition.
One of my favorites ever
I've watch this movie atleast once a week I loved it
For Lex, the battle between Superman and Batman is a win-win situation, if Superman wins, he reveals that even the so called God is merely human and capable of killing innocent to save his mother; if Batman wins, then a Superman beaten by a human is just proves he is not so high and mighty.
It really is. Such a fascinating plan.
Also:
1. Batman is acting out his most wild fantasy of saving “Martha”, not his Martha, but another sons mother at the hands of “some punks with a gun.” And flamethrower.
2. Batman is still wrong when he hurt those people, at the end he realized how wrong he was when Clark died. His faith was restored, but at the cost of various lives who could’ve stood trial to keep lex in prison.
It’s to me a good film, it’s not the dc I wanted or needed, but it’s one that was fascinating to see and feel.
Thank you for this video!
Would be interesting to see how Bruce's character changed during JL too. He mentioned to Diana how he deserves to die for the men he's killed in his coldless pursuit to murder Superman.
cinemacure.wordpress.com/2017/11/19/read-zack-snyders-version-and-all-deleted-scenes-of-justice-league/
"CHANGED: Bruce’s conversation with Diana after Superman returns. Diana comes in to pop Bruce’s shoulder and tend to his injuries. Bruce reveals that he is willing to die to save the world. In fact, he says “he deserves to die because of what he’s done. He’s killed people and nothing, not even his hate for Superman can justify killing like that”. Diana tells him that “he’s changed now” but Bruce remains adamant that he can only atone himself by sacrificing his life."
Would've been perfect to see him amends his sins when going face to face with Darkseid.. alas Final Crisis.
Austin Trench can’t believe you’re actually defending “Martha” 😂
Dantdt33-0 I always defend it. But hey it’s just a movie you can like and hate what ya want.
Austin Trench of course
@@dantdt4693 The Martha moment is actually quite beautiful. I think people think it was done in a silly way but really, it's a beautiful moment. So focused on hating this alien that at that moment he realizes he's another being, similar to himself. He has a mother, whose name is just like his, and he's simply asking to you to save her even if he dies.
The ultimate edition 100% changed my opinion on the movie
@Kermit Peanut yeah exactly, I’m so excited for the Snyder cut
@FoxRNG He broke that rule many times in the comics and in every live action movie, he kills someone.
@FoxRNG cry about it
@FoxRNG There are different versions of every comic book character ever created, You have to learn how to respect that fact
@FoxRNG This version of him does. And that's fine
When the Snyder Cut comes out I’m thinking people will appreciate the seeds planted years earlier in this movie and appreciate it further
And we can pray snyder gets to complete his vision... well i hope
Tyson Moffat and Batfleck comes back
Yes
Yeah. I hope Snyder's cut can stop me feel disgusting everytime I remember how Batman kill a lot of people just to steal a space rock
@@cuongtranmanh3794why does Batman killing bother you so much?
You made me smile today.
I liked MoS in theatre.
But I fell in love with it during rewatch.
I was okay with BvS in theatre.
But the Ultimate Edition blew me away.
Zack Snyder may not even be in my top 10 directors list.
But.. man, MoS ans BvS are something 👌
Masterpieces. First real cbm.
BvS EU is the king of comic book movie
When I first watched the film I wasn't ecstatic but i didn't hate it. More like underwhelmed alot of the reasons highlighted in the video. But after reflecting on it I did come to the same conclusions regarding Supes, Bats and Lex. Our world is too critical and cynical for a icon like Superman. The fanbase's worst nightmare of Batman becoming a murderous vigilante and losing control were realized here...and Lex becomes somewhat more scary and interesting in his existential hatred of being with great power unlike his need for control for monetary/prestige reasons. So all in all the film dissppointed critics and fans not cuz it was trash...it was because it was a reflection of our world today. And in superhero media...our heroes are supposed to rise above it and enforce our fantasies. Not this film baby!!!!
We saw Man of Steel through Clark Kent's perspective, a man who grew up in a farm as a kid who had unnatural powers, who was different, alone, he didn't have friends, he was a weirdo, he was bullied and yet he holds back these powers, he could've killed or hurt those kids who hurt him but he didn't, thanks to his Father. Jonathan knew that his son is gifted or cursed and he held him from becoming a killer or a murderer who wants revenge, he knew that the world wasn't ready for this god-like superhuman being, he knew that he will change the world. Clark followed that road, that path of light and hope that Pa Kent built. But later on, Clark discovers his true origins, he finally knows now who is he, where he belongs, he discovers that he is not human, he comes from another world, why did they send him here? he knows now that his father and mother were forced to send him to this unknown world and hoping for their son to accomplish their goal, to be something else, to be a beacon of hope, a light in the dark, and our Clark continues his path, he understands now what he will be, he will use his incredible powers to help these beings, these strangers against his own people, he saves the world, but its a loss for him, he is truly alone now, he is the last survivor of his planet and he has to deal with that.
Batman v Superman : This movie was, in my opinion, the perfect sequel to Man of Steel, I really wanted to a fight between my all-time favorite heroes then a World's Finest conclusion leading up to the Justice League, that was what the fans wanted, but Zack Snyder had another way of doing it, Zack answered the question : "Are we alone in the universe?" it was No, and it leads to: "What are the consequences?" What will happen if this god-like being this God actually existed, fans wanted him to be always a savior, a lighthearted superhero, but no, even the multiple version of this Superman in the comics aren't always lighthearted, our favorite heroes can succumb to the dark side, they can turn rogue, they can be bad guys. and the movie explores that dark side. Batman was really fed up, he was going to retire, its over for him, he's been doing it for 20 years and nothing's changed, criminals are like weed, of course, and he saw that his efforts are in vain, but after Metropolis's events, after the Wayne Tower fell, after the papers, after the US Capitol explosion, his undying hatred grew, even more, he saw that Superman is this evil figure who brang upon his world chaos and war and massacres, and he was going to end that, his final mission is to break his rule and to kill this evil god and he nearly succeeds in doing it, before he discovers that this monster, this devil who came from the sky, is actually a poor, defenseless man who's last wish was to save his mom, he didnt ask for any fight, all he wanted was Batman's help, he never liked him, he hated what he's been doing in Gotham, and yet, he's final action wasn't killing Lex, wasn't killing Batman, was actually talking politely to Batman, he apolgized and he talked with good manners, but yet, he faced Hatred and Anger, Bruce accepted the fact that Superman is more human than he ever was, and he went on to Save Martha, then Superman died, and that was the Redemption of Batman, Men are still good, Bruce is still good and he found humanity again, Superman's Death was an inspiration for Batman, its a new dawn, the Dawn of Justice. I'll edit this comment when the Snyder Cut gets released.
Edit: OMG YES ITS HAPPENING
Here here. Well said!
I'd make sure to be here once the Cut gets released
Yess, it is happening 😁😁
BvS is one of the most misunderstood and nitpicked movies I have seen in
my whole life. Usually when you read criticism about it, it's like with
Man of Steel, nitpicks and complaints based on what's OUTSIDE the movie
universe, not what's in it and in the context of the story.
thats how it is with any DCEU movie and its stupid
@Kermit Peanut This is wrong. Ben is not the most accurate by a long shot
Bvs was and still is trash but the ultimate cut 😙magnificent
@FoxRNG while i agree with you, yes batman doe not kill but the batman in bvs is NOT our batman anymore. He kills because he already lost all the hopes in mankind and that man can be good that's the whole reason why batman tried to kill superman in the first place, and it's has been addressed in the film by alfred constantly lecturing bruce that he is not the good man he used to be.
@Kermit Peanut I disagree, you saying he kills is just very..well not Batman. I don't like to start hate threads, and I don't want to, but......
Your examples for him killing are not Batman at his core. One was because it was basically the only shot of winning, and the other are more due to the writer's tone, plus one isn't even really canon. He's killed on unique occasions and runs BUT he generally doesn't kill.
Also, no, Ben's Batman is not the most accurate, Kevin Conroy's, Christian Bale's, and Bruce Greenwood's all have a more core understanding of Batman, which means y'know, not running over criminals with cars. Also, the best portrayed is purely up to bias and taste. And "people who hate Ben have no clue" is not a piece of evidence.
Also, the 3rd "evidence" is just the 1st. I'm not denying it, but can you give sources on what Frank Miller and Kevin Conroy said, also that doesn't mean he's the best. The acting and physique are AGAIN up to personal preference.
But the final "evidence" and the last sentence of the comment, NO, Zack Snyder is stuck in the past. TDKR, while good is probably the only thing he read. The reason I think BVS is bad is because they needed more development with Batman and one single movie is not enough to do that. Honestly, that's DC's fault, but TDKR is so effective because we KNOW who Batman is and TDKR totally changes that perspective.
Look, I don't hate you for liking this film, but these statements anger me. Gritty/dark does not mean good. That is the edgy 13 year old in yourself. They don't even really flesh out how Robin affects Bruce. I'm bringing up again that with development, this film could've been good, but it wasn't.
The worst thing about BvS is that it never got the proper sequel it deserved.
agreed
Nah, is not perfect either, but I like Justice League better. All tho I think Man of Steel is the better of the bunch.
There is one. #releasethesnydercut
true!!!
Mos and bvs were really really good in my op, but jl, man if i could physically kill a movie and get away w the murder, jl, the village, avatar and db-E
I actually liked the DCEU Superman very much
Dynamite Brown me too.
I remember i barely read about him in 2013.
& while I liked the Reeve's movies, he was.. meh. Until . Man of Steel
and ... well, the cinematography, the character, the meaning, Clark suddenly .. became like someone I know.
Many said he was'n't accurate to the comics.. .so I start reading them.. A LOT
I CAN NOW SAY, DCEU Superman, is also the Sups from comics too.
@@maskofshy no
@@dcmarvelcomicfans9458 no what?
@@maskofshy that's not rebirth / pre-new 52 Superman the dceu version same goes for Christopher Reeve Superman
The ultimate edition is a master piece...
You don’t have to agree🙌🏼
but I do agree
What if I disagree ?
Alex Capitanu you’re entitled to your wrong opinion :)
I think it's a masterpiece but at the same time not
@@AN-filmandmusic there's no such thing as a wrong opinion chill
I still can't fathom how people disliked this movie as much as they did. Yes the theatrical cut was not as good as the ultimate edition but the level of anger was so irrational and unfounded. - regretful user
People also just love to hate. Even if they have no good reason to and make themselves look like complete asses.
It simply is not a good movie. I don't harass the actors on social media. I don't think you are less of a person for enjoying the film. I simply disagree with you. I think Snyder does not know how to tell a story. He doesn't know what makes a good film. I can have sympathy for his personal tragedy. I can treat him with respect as a human while criticizing his art. Good people don't necessarily make good art.
@Wednesday Oh god. Off the top of my head for just Superhero movies, The Dark Knight, Deadpool 1, Civil War, Infinity War, Endgame, Avengers 1, Ironman 1, The Winter Soldier, First Class, Days of Future Past, Guardians of the Galaxy 1, Thor Ragnarok, Spider-Man 2, Homecoming & Far from Home, the list goes on. Punisher: Warzone is a better movie than BvS.
@Wednesday yes, it happened with me and I feel guilty for it now
@@_androo_9202 Punisher is not as good as the other movies I listed but it doesn't become a music video every ten minutes because the script is just a series of cliches every five minutes between dream sequences and montages.
I'm sorry it's been so long since the last video, but I only get one shot at this and I had to get in 110% right. I hope you like it ❤️
Let me know what you think in the comments: do you feel any different about BvS after hearing my thoughts on it?
Nope! Still hate it. I watched the Ultimate Cut recently and still found it to be a pretty dreadful experience. Just not my thing. But now, DC's making stuff like Shazam and Joker, which I thought were pretty incredible so I don't really waste my breath thinking about things that let me down. There's so much to be excited about. Great video by the way!
No, but not because I thought your thoughts weren't insightful or that I disagreed with your conclusions. I'm glad you came to a place of peace, and I will say I found your comment about the legacy of Batman getting in the way of your enjoyment very interesting. Something that Grant Morrison, Frank Miller and other writers have played with in their runs on Batman (and Christopher Nolan played with in his films) was how the legend of Batman is what makes him powerful. What they rarely talk about is how the flip side--that it's much easier to hate a symbol/legend (like Superman) than a living, vulnerable being. As for the "artists should be allowed to do whatever they want with characters" argument, I'm personally tired of it, because it's an obvious fallacy. You say yourself that you had constraints on Batman--even after your revelation. "Batman does not kill...unless..." puts a constraint on the character beyond the costume and the iconography associated with him. Regardless, well done perspective on the characters and the movie.
A+ work homie! Thoroughly enjoyed it
I want a video explaining your views on Man of Steel
You know what I think? I think this is one of your best constructed videos. The last part, when you showed 'acceptance' hit me like a truck. It's almost like you explained a process of performing a psychological analysis on yourself.
Most of the things you said about this movie is stuff I always agreed with. Still, despite all that, I am not a big fan of this movie. I am a guy who prefers a good script over artistic directing - and the script for BvS, while it has some great ideas, it lacks proper execution and logic behind it.
Wow, this video reframed my entire perspective on this movie, AND managed to have a compelling story all its own. I especially love the way that the story of the film paralleled your own journey with your relationship with the film, a truly inspired touch of storytelling. Excellent work! Gotta be my fav vid of yours at this point.
Let's Take A Look Same for me as well.
I have explained this film for years. I should have made a video ;)
@@The80sWolf_ right! That'd been cool! He did do a good job though.
The 80's Wolf You know, explaining the meaning of a story doesn’t actually make that story any less terrible?
Its crazy how you people are brain washed and cant think for yourselves. Holy shit. What happened to this society. That rotten tomatoes and a random guy on youtibe can change you perspective about something. Smfh
I love how Zack treat his audience as an adult.
Exactly! It's different from the marvel formula and that's the point
How many of you are 14 and have a deluded notion of what's mature and intelligent?
@@shamlotbestrhapsever7437 or maybe it's you who's 14 and have a small-minded view of storytelling & is unwilling to be open to new ideas so you call people who ARE "deluded"?
@@supermagnumable Oh yea man, I'm totally 14 and too stupid to understand this unique and deeply intellectual storytelling presented by our Lord & Savior Zack Snyder.
I need to jump off a bridge and land face first ensuring that my "mind will open," so that I can join this Snyder-Cut cult that is in no way the laughing stock of the cinematic fan community.
@@shamlotbestrhapsever7437 .......what are you talking about? what is this whole paragraph for?
I'm just saying to accept other people's opinion's (like OP) and not call them "deluded" because you don't agree with it.
that's acting like a 14 year old.
When it premiered I liked it, but as time passed I realized I was wrong, turns out I love it
It's weird that this movie actually made me understand Superman as a character. For the first time in my life I understood Superman and why the people that love him love him. You nailed it right on the head man. Oddly enough maybe it was my over analytical brain but I saw what Zack was trying to do even in the theatrical cut, it just was fully realized in the Ultimate Cut.
Most people hate bvs because the internet told them they should🤷🏻♂️
Aiden Boomer 👀
You’d be surprised at how much people follow rotten tomatoes on their opinions on movies. It’s insane how much they can actually effect the viewership on a certain movie.
That's very true.
It's easy to fool people who are already fooling themselves
I tried to like the movie despite the bad early reviews, but it still disappointed me.
It was 2016's, "I'm gluten intolerant."
This. This is what those of us that loved BvS from the start understood. This is why we defended the film so ardently. I can't count how many arguments and debates I've had over this movie and it all comes down to understanding and how some people are not willing to step back and take another look from a different perspective. You tell them that they don't get it and they get defensive, claiming they understood everything just fine, but you can tell that they don't. You try to delve into the deeper meanings behind certain scenes and they laugh and ridicule you for trying to find meaning when all alone YOU understood what the intent was but they did not.
Exactly like you said it.
Sad but true
This was my experience too. I got so much hate for loving this movie and so many people are coming around.
Eh, I understood what the film was trying to do even with the theatrical release but I still do not like this film. Even with all the cut scenes put back even understanding the motivations of each character, I never had a problem with Lex as I think he fit in with this world and really enjoyed his motivation, I even understood why they made Batman kill as a way to explain why he shouldn't, but I still do not like this film. The first half of the film is great but it loses it's vision halfway through as well as some inconsistent behaviors of characters. Clark can hear Louis falling and catch her just in time from thousands of miles away but his mom gets snatched up in the middle of the street and he doesn't know? It was already established in MoS that he could do that as he almost immediately charges at Zod when threatening his mother. It's not a big deal but it's certainly inconsistent.
I do not think the characterizations of it's titular characters were well done. Batman and Superman feel like the same kind of character. They are pitted against each other but they have no ideological conflicts and are both hypocrites as they don't like each other for the exact same reasons of unchecked power.There final confrontation could have been handled easily without a fight because it was a poor reason to get them to fight to begin with. Clark could very easily save his own mother. Clark could very easily explain the situation to Bruce and even man handle him enough to explain. But they had to get them to fight somehow. The third act is the worst part of the film and is where it lost me as well as ruin the entire film.
I did not mind the ideas being presented. They just didn't follow through with them.
Yea right. Lol
To comment on Lex, his motivations are more fleshed out than "I want Superman to be hated because of course I do". It's a bit more personal than that, and the movie does make it very clear. Lex was abused by his father, and no God ever saved him from that. There, he realized that God couldn't be all good and all powerful at the same time. And now, a "god" in the form of Superman has come to Earth and tries to save lives, and shows himself as some kind of divine being. Essentially, Superman is the punching bag Lex is using to vent all hatred he has had since childhood
You see, that's the problem with Snyder's way of making movies: Storytelling.
People then to say "Uh, actually Lex had motivation and it's this this and that" but it wasn't never shown, it was never portayed in the movie. That's why usually "Show but don't tell" is the best way to convey a message, and it's ironic that a "visual" director like Snyder was not able to do that. I see all the time people explaining "Oh, but in BvS there's a reason for this dumb decision and is..." but never EVER in the movie was shown.
One of the dumbest scenes are when Diana shows up and asks Bruce why he brought Doomsday to that place and Bruce says "The port is abandoned" just because too many people complained about destruction or innocent people dying in Man of Steel, but it's so stupid because is better to show it.
"No dude, but it was mentioned", that's a horrible way to convey messages in movies. Even more if the movie is trying to be "mature" or "for older audiences", and yet it's full of mistakes that other comic book movies do, even Marvel.
I think many people have selective memories now and because superhero movies are bad now they go back and think BvS is great and all, but no. It isn't and it never was.
There are some cool ideas that might've been amazing, but most of them were portayed/told in the worst way possible.
Yeah I can't really disagree that Snyder didn't convey the motivations well. I just meant that he does have motivations. Albeit I will way that "show don't tell" isn't something to be abused. Saying it's abandoned in a one-off line is perfectly fine if you don't want to needlessly cut away from the scene.
I agree that BvS isn't very good. @@DistortedEmerald
BvS is a movie you need to watch more than once, same with Man of Steel. The more you watch it the more you appreciate it.
These movies gives me goosebumps 🥺🥺
@@yourdadsunclesmate6308 well for me that was the case, for others who have different views of the character it takes time to adjust to the difference.
there are tons of movies made for second viewings. one good example is fight club, or even hereditary which came out last year. after you see it the first time you will be viewing it from a different lens after experiencing the ending. i don't even get the point of your comment, because this sentiment applies to all art. you've never heard a song you disliked at first and learned to love through time?
I watched them 3 times each, including the extended version. Still don't understand the hype. Mos is better than BVS, but in both the characters were ruined. Batman and superman kill in their first movies, wow. Maybe instead of using batman and superman, zack Snyder could use jerry and joe (random people). This way the snyder fans can have their Snyder movies, without ruining the beloved DC characters. I don't hate the movies, I just don't like them
@@MrE_ Superman doesn't really kill anyone, it may seem like that in the Africa scene but he even says "I didn't kill anyone". Batman kills since this is an end of the road Batman who has seen it all (Wayne building collapse, Robin dead etc.) and he's snapped. This is what I mean by rewatching, you eventually feel sorry for him and can relate as even someone like Batman has flaws, at the end he does change and goes back to the no-kill rule though.
"You will give the people of Earth an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you, they will stumble, they will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun, Kal. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders.."
Honestly, I’ve already been recently growing more positive on BVS but this just made my love for it skyrocket. I learned yet another lesson that no amount of school will ever be able to teach me.
Hate blinds us until we become the monster we grew to fear.
I don't care how much hate Batman has, I don't believe for a second the worlds greatest detective couldn't figure out Superman just saved the world from Zod. How does he not see a murderous alien came to this planet and Superman saved us. If there is a 1% chance he is bad I have to murder him? It just doesn't make sense.
At least in Dark Knight Returns I felt like they were fighting for a reason. I just wish that's the movie we got on the big screen
@@faz6877 The point was Batman was too far gone and irrational. He's seen good men go bad. Superman is godly powerful and Bruce knows power corrupts. Those were the themes in the movie. Did you miss all that? Batman is at his lowest. He cannot be reasoned with. He made up his mind. The worlds greatest detective is also human and watch his building, with his employees get destroyed. Plus, Lex was provoking his anger.
I think you missed the point. Or just rewatch the movie knowing this. It's all in there. When Batman and Superman face off, Superman tries to reason with him. In the Ultimate cut, there is a woman whose boyfriend (she thinks) was just killed by Batman. She says to him that you can reason with men like that. The only thing that works is a fist."
This is all throughout the movie. Have you not seen the ultimate edition? It fills a lot of gaps and motivations.
Batman was brought down to his lowest so Superman can redeem him and give him hope that men can still be good.
The fucking movie itself could have told you that. It's almost as if ... you thought what you *wanted to* ...
Your last sentence is probably one of the most important messages people in general would do well to remember given the state of public discourse, especially online.
@@faz6877 I think you missed the batman snyder made here, he's not the young year on batman or the detective batman that fights his rogue villain. It is that batman, but in BvS the bat is past all that, evidenced by alfred "Oh, yes, it has, sir. Everything's changed." and "The fever, the rage, the feeling of powerlessness. That turns good men, cruel.". Affleck himself said that when snyder cast him snyder describe the batman as "he's older, and he's really fucked up, and he's broken down, and he's on the end of a moral bankruptcy". This batman lost his first son-like figure dick grayson that's one of the reason he lost his way. Another reason is that the destruction the black zero event did, the buildings superman destroyed, he hated superman's guts, his employees are suffering, his business/building in metropolis is destroyed. Lex was playing a part in making batman hates superman, sending the red letters, framing superman for the capitol house bombing. And that's where the quote "Hate blinds us until we become the monster we grew to fear.", he was blinded by his hatred to superman, he lost his way. It's easy saying it doesn't makes sense, because you're missing the whole thing. Batman grew his hatred on superman since metropolis, although he saved the world but bruce didn't see that, he sees the destruction, the deaths, "That son of a bitch brought the war to us 2 years ago, jesus alfred, count the dead, thousands of people. What's next? Millions?" The casualties and the destruction, and i quote alfred on what bruce has turned to "Men fall from the sky, and gods hurl thunderbolts, innocents die. That's how it starts, sir. The fever, the rage, the feeling of powerlessness. That turns good men, cruel."
The whole of BvS is Reestablishing Batmans No-kill rule.. How did this go over many peoples heads
Edit- 'Faith Alfred Faith'
Indeed , but I would also like that snyder did made bruce talking about the code and saying something like no more to be clearer
@@kryptonianstrength8461 me too. That's actually a fair point. Cheers.
Because it's so vague and inconsistent throughout the whole film. The idea is awesome, execution leaves much to be desired.
I don't think it is? When asked about it, Snyder actually tried to justify Batman's killing by citing examples from the comics, as if he could genuinely be adapted that way and not as a pourposeful distortion. There's absolutely nothing in the movie that suggests that what's wrong with batman is the absence of a no-kill rule. Yes, there is something about resentment of what makes him fear, and of the wrongness of mudering an inocent man, but from what Snyder presented to us, he always did smash criminals to a pulp in a confrontation, and will continue to do so after his turning point, as we see in the warehouse fight.
@@joaomarcos2089 I've always thought exactly what Hi-Top said in the video is 100% true. Chris Terrio wrote a script where Batman didn't kill, branded people, and teetered on the edge with his first kill being Superman if he went through with it. And it's a great storyline. When directing, Snyder simply couldn't help himself adding shots of Batman blowing shit up because he thought it was cool. He later justifies it as not killing in interviews because he knows it was bad for the story. "I tried to do it in a technical way" "It's more manslaughter." Frankly, I'm disappointed, because with a few re-writes adding more context and backstory (maybe even just a small montage after the origin?) and Snyder taking out some of those shots of Batman kills, I think there was a great story here, but unfortunately the execution just wasn't there.
Bruh this movie died just like Superman did, and now that we finally understand it, just like they finally understood him, its too late...
Well actually.... it's not too late
@@danield.8233 It's too late. DCEU is dead.
@@Rain88800 Actually, just like Superman, it came back to life, and will now be better than ever
@@danield.8233 Hope you're right,bro
Daniel D. It’s not too late cause the SNYDER CUT BABAY
I didnt like BVS out of theaters either but BVS ultimate has grown to be my fav favorite movie.. as i learn to understand the movie i actually began to understand myself through the characters..very interesting.
You articulated nearly everything I've been trying to say for years so well. Thank you.
I love Batman v Superman, too.
The theatrical cut's editing effectively makes Batman the protagonist, which I imagine is another big part of why so many people had such a problem with it. It's structured in such a way that tricks you into taking his side, when the narrative as a whole is about how he's wrong. With that in mind, it's no wonder the Martha scene causes such a strong negative reaction - the audience is effectively having the same veil lifted from their eyes that Batman is, and that's a much bigger trick to pull on the viewer than it is on a character, especially with no exposition and the frenetic cutting breaking up some of the visual storytelling.
Batman V Superman Dawn of Justice extended cut is masterpiece
It would’ve been if it didn’t lie to the audience with its title.
And if it didn’t fail it’s characters.
The film whilst good, fails in its concepts and adaptation or portrayal of the most iconic superheroes of all time, whom are batman, superman and Wonder Woman
Soumyadeep Das agreed
The Omega Effect - I might have to disagree with you on that! Their portrayal is like the most accurate ever! Wonder Woman, Pre-Superman, and with a Batman that was killing!
For sure! 100% masterpiece
No its not
This deserves a standing ovation.
3 years and this movie that critics hated so much on is still talked about. People are now coming around to this amazing movie and it makes me so happy. ❤️
Some movies are like that. The Thing was hated on too.
Same here. I watched it a few times since it released. Especially when the deleted scenes and the Ultimate edition finally dropped......it opened some eyes. Cheers
Its still bad ROFL.
The Ultimate Edition is a fantastic film, fixes almost every issue, I never get tired of it. The fact that BvS was critically torn to shreds while The Last Jedi was lauded is hilarious to me, really shows the current state of film criticism.
Honestly really sad we wont see another film like this again
Dont be so sure...
Hope never dies.
@@Kyran1996 maybe not true ...Joker hits 1 billion ...a true Visionary film ..warner must be changing something in their plans!!!
Exactly.
MoS and BvS happened with a clear vision from Snyder.
It wasn't just an attempt to get a piece of CBM box office which marvel was enjoying.
These 2 films had alot of heart in it.
And no studio will ever dare to so something like this ever.
They wanna play it safe by doing low budget attempts like Joker, Birds of Prey, Shazam etc.
men are still good
The mention of Zack in correlation with Batman's journey teared me up "this is a human being"
ALSO, BvS had THE MOST significant Director's Cut release since Kingdom of Heaven.
+
hugh mungus Ridley and Zack two of the most visionary directors always getting their movies fucked by a lesser theatrical cut
¿¿?? Significant HOW?!?!? The director´s cut did NOTHING but explain why Superman got blamed by those bullets. That was literally the only thing. BvS still is one of the most BORING and GENERIC movies Ive seen this decade, filled with lazy writing and un-inspired cliches, director´s cut or not. I mean, don´t get me wrong, its ok if you enjoy the movie... I enjoy all kinds of shitty films (and I don´t mean it like I enjoy laughing at them, watching a bad movie, I mean I actually like them). But the director´s cut wasn´t "significant", it was meaningless.
@@rams3955 Both cuts are bad, and boring.
@@gabrielp9646 um I mean just plot wise the movie as a whole makes alot more sense. The entire Africa sequence in the theatrical cut literally makes no sense and makes you fill in information while the directors cut fleshes out that whole sequence. And Luthors plan also is way more fleshed out and makes way more sense. And then it's characters. Supes and Clark were butchered in the theatrical. And it's just small additions that flesh out the character. Him staying after the capitol bombing and helping ppl while the first responder doesn't know how to react to his presence. We see ppl burning his effigy in the street with a mom shaking her head to her kid showing the audience that not everyone opposes supes. We have Clark investigating batman in Gotham. Batman was less brutalized in the theatrical but there's one 30 second clip that always pisses me off that it was cut. After he fights supes he goes to look for Martha in that time Alfred located her while listening and it's just a simple "I don't deserve you Alfred" but that line is super important because it's him basically apologizing and realizing Alfred was right the entire movie. Much like kingdom of heaven it's not the big shit that was cut it was little moments like that that make the theatrical a much worse experience. If you don't like it fine but ur objectively wrong. And also calling BvS generic when it's legitimately the most original and ballsy comicbook movie made is hilarious... You may not like it but calling it generic is just dumb.
Like the fact that it's been 4 yeas and people still debate whether or not BvS was a good movie pretty much prove it was a good movie. Like any movie ppl discuss years after it's release that has people arguing deserves to be applauded.
@@rams3955 Im just going to repeat the same thing again: People didn´t hate this movie because of the plot-holes, or because they were "confused..." They hated this movie, because there was nothing good in it to love, and make them forget the bad stuff (because every marvel or DC movie is FILLED with plot-holes, and confusing moments to the "general audience"). The problem with BvS is how BORING, BASIC and GENERIC it was, and the un-inspired performances. Also, the apparent lack of care and work, in the script.
I mean, for instance, you talk about Luthor´s plan... "Im going to push these two to the limit, till they hate eachother". That´s literally the same plan Zemo had in Civil War. The exact same plan Killgrave had in season 1 of Jessica Jones (when he pushes Luke and Trish to the limit, so he can control them, and make them fight Jessica). The same plan that villain Alexandra had in the Defenders TV show. The same plan that Madame Hydra had in Agents of Shield. The same plan that Poison Ivy had in Batman & Robin. The exact same plan that Loki had in the Avengers (2012). Do you start to understand what I mean, when I say boring and generic..?? And don´t get me started with Clark Kent´s journalist sub-plot, or with Batman´s "detective work" (or how GENERIC of those two things are in the movie). As I said in my first comment, the problem are not the plot-holes, or the fact that Luthor´s plan didn´t make much sense (in both versions). Its the infuraiting amount of tropes and cliches, and the lack of work.
And no, the fact that people still argue about if the movie was good or not, doesn´t make it "good". I know SEVERAL people who say the Iron Fist TV show, or that Inhumans series, were good. That doesn´t mean anything, those were badly written TV shows. Just like with the SW prequels. I don´t care if you like them or not, those are badly written movies. I mean, many people did enjoy the final season of GOT, there are DOZENS of videos and essays about why it was good, on youtube. Does that make the series finale good?? xDxD (as I said, I like a bunch of bad movies. I truly love them. I don´t have the nerve to claim they´re "good", tho...)
Writing is not a "magical art", that is subjective. Is also a craft, filled with rules and techniques. And BvS shits on all of those rules and techniques (but not in a good way, like movies like Martin, or the King of Comedy. More in a Fast & Furios 5/Olympus Has Fallen kind of way). They clearly don´t even know (or care) about the very BASICS of writing, like how to structure a story in 7 points, the importance of the transitions between the three acts, concepts like "show don´t tell", the difference between concrete and abstract exposition dialogue... Basic character arcs (please, tell me: What character arc does Alfred go through, in Bvs? Or Martha Kent? Or Wonder Woman? Or heck, even Lois Lane... Every good movie I can think of, has AT LEAST one VERY SIMPLE arc/progression line/journey, for every single one of his characters). To name one example: in Batman Begins, even Rachel´s boss/boyfriend has a character arc (he goes from being a coward who tells Rachel to stop investigating, to actually trying to stop the bad guys, and dying as a good guy). Even Carmine Falcone has an arc (he goes from being a complete asswhole who is in charge, to be Scarecrow´s pet inside Arkham).
The "NO Kill" Rule is *not* a fundamental part of Batman's character. If you put him in a cartoon, a movie, an elseworld story, the only fundamental thing that carries over is his parents being killed in front of him and him wearing a Bat costume. So cut the shit. He's killed in every major live action movie he's been in to date. Funny enough, or better yet hypocritically, people envision the character fighting like a brawler out of the Arkham games, breaking people's bone and beating them to the point of paralysis. But killing them is going too far? Yeah, okay...
It really is though, that's what makes this batman so fascinating, he has been pushed so far that he has broken his one rule. Also are you seriously using the arkham games and the Dark Knight films as proof that batman kills? Seriously? I get your trying to defend something you love in this version of batman, but at that point your just lying to yourself. You can't take the "Everytime Batman kills" compilations on youtube seriously. Especially when the biggest point of contention in TDK was that the Joker was trying to get batman to break his code by getting him to kill him.
IS IT FATHER'S DAY ALREADY? MY DAD MAKES VIDEOS THAT BOP
Thank you son
I recently watched BvS and soon will watch the Ultimate Edition... I had a very similar change in thought... I no longer minded the weird complex Luthor... i looked at the Martha Scene through a different lense, and at its core brings it to the most purest lowest level of man. And that is one of few powerful undeniable "just is" statements... A Son loves their mother, and Humanizes *the Character of superman in BvS. To the Character to Batman... I totally agree. (*ultimate edition will most likely make it worthy and cannot wait for the Snyder Cut...
Haved you watched the Ultimate Edition yet? What did you think?
After watching the ultimate edition, the theatrical cut feels choppy and incoherent. They literally cut the character's motivations.
@Kermit Peanut stop. if you're gonna post your comment again then so will I:
I disagree, you saying he kills is just very..well not Batman. I don't like to start hate threads, and I don't want to, but......
Your examples for him killing are not Batman at his core. One was because it was basically the only shot of winning, and the other are more due to the writer's tone, plus one isn't even really canon. He's killed on unique occasions and runs BUT he generally doesn't kill.
Also, no, Ben's Batman is not the most accurate, Kevin Conroy's, Christian Bale's, and Bruce Greenwood's all have a more core understanding of Batman, which means y'know, not running over criminals with cars. Also, the best portrayed is purely up to bias and taste. And "people who hate Ben have no clue" is not a piece of evidence.
Also, the 3rd "evidence" is just the 1st. I'm not denying it, but can you give sources on what Frank Miller and Kevin Conroy said, also that doesn't mean he's the best. The acting and physique are AGAIN up to personal preference.
But the final "evidence" and the last sentence of the comment, NO, Zack Snyder is stuck in the past. TDKR, while good is probably the only thing he read. The reason I think BVS is bad is because they needed more development with Batman and one single movie is not enough to do that. Honestly, that's DC's fault, but TDKR is so effective because we KNOW who Batman is and TDKR totally changes that perspective.
Look, I don't hate you for liking this film, but these statements anger me. Gritty/dark does not mean good. That is the edgy 13 year old in yourself. They don't even really flesh out how Robin affects Bruce. I'm bringing up again that with development, this film could've been good, but it wasn't.
I initially dismissed this film back when it first came out, just like everyone else. But then I watched Twin Perfect's amazing 3-part analysis series on it and now I totally respect it's ambition and what Snyder was going for.
Those videos are excellent!
@@LoverboyMedia For the record, both Snyders Superman and Batman are actually comic accurate... just depends on the comic. Man Of Steel is a straight up adaptation of Superman: Earth One, which was a more serious and "realistic" take on Superman.
@@SA80TAGE Thank you my friend now I can rest easily
@@SA80TAGE God, I love Earth One so much
@@Merdicano Same here, it's my favourite Superman storyline since they treat him as more than a power set with a smile, he's an actual man with doubts, fears, hopes... struggling to find acceptance and his place in a world that will never truly understand him. Only thing they really changed for the film was the jobs he goes through and the enemy being Kryptonians to make it an even more personal story for Clark (even then, the enemy alien motivation is still the same since they are seeking the last kryptonian and even address the world in the same manner).
I can only laugh at "Superman fans" who hate the movie while claiming to be comic nerds since it's obvious they don't read any. I remember the Nostalgia Critic/Angry Joe review, both claiming they are comic fans, never once mentioning Earth One and acting like MoS is some new take never seen before lol. Fuckin pretenders. I'm not even a huge Superman fan or reader but I still know this stuff. Cavill is definitely my Superman.
BvS Ultimate Edition is an unmitigated masterpiece. I don't think that's an exaggeration. I've watched it 3 times , each with people who had never seen the original and they LOVED it. When I mentioned that the theatrical cut was an hour shorter, like clockwork, each of them said some version of "what the hell could have been cut from that? "
At this point I'm convinced the only people who don't like it are people who already decided they hate it based on the ridiculous theatrical cut. The added scenes completely change the pacing and character dev. TC is a 6.5/10 and UE is a 9.5/10. It's drastically better in my opinion.
in my opinion, this movie is in my top 10 movie ever made , not joking.
@@constantinezoelayman3132 same. BvS Ultimate Edition is a rare movie I could watch every weekend and still enjoy.
Children disliked this movie because it was not funny and heart warming and jolly . This was art
I was a child the first time I watched it and I loved it
Cringe
@@KMM-kx2yn lol.. The whole comment section is filled with self-proclaimed connoisseurs of art. 😂😂😂 MCU is for babies is the only argument to be made.
I went to go see this movie when I was about 10 years old, and I didn't really get why so many critics and fans hated it, because I absolutely loved the movie.
Lmaooo we get it, you think you’re smart 😂
"Hi I'm Batman and I like to Party".
*Lego Batman would like to know your location*
Zack snyder was a hero. I just couldn't see it.
He is just a human being just trying to do what he thinks is right. Just like any of us. We are all heroes.
Kanga Janga the fuck we are some people think killing people for fun is right but there not heroes matter of fact I think most people are not heroes in the world as I think that people got to deserve that title so good cops,solders risking there life's, and a few others. But to a degree anyone could be a hero if your someone's idol but I'm talking about the type of person who most people in the world would consider a hero
Snyder should NEVER have been allowed anywhere near Superman! He's a super powers fan boy with no clue who Superman is as a character. Singer did it much better.
@@normandedgerly8445 singer dint do nothing better he just followed someone else version and became a shadow of that that no one really cares to for
@@colbyjohndoe2120 heroes cant be just about killing or being entitled of being one or fame, its what people do to help and what the best people can be. Its so sad that people lost the meaning of hero or superHERO. Everyone is a hero in someone's eyes the question is, is someone willing to sacrifice for what's right?
It took 4 years to understand his movie, thats how complex his movie is. Man I love that guy. Grounded, Calm, even all these years of blaming him he never complains "why". He knew there is a hope even if he loses everything. He is a more of a Superman.
It's not THAT complex. It's just people have a certain expectation from a particular genre "omg it's a superhero movie hhow can it be political espionage and philosophical bro?"
@@porassrivastava8242 Exactly. People hate having to understand comic book movies.
"This is a human being, and he didn't ask for any of this."
Zack Snyder mourns the loss of his daughter, and Superman desperately pleads for his mother's life
They both have humanity
This movie was too much too soon but in the best possible way.
#ReleaseTheSnyderCut
@Dan of Steel "Wow... His mother´s name is Martha, like mine?? What does that mean? What else do we have in common..?? We´re do we come from..??" Bitch please, that´s the level of drama that a 16 year old would write, in his first school play. And don´t get me started on Kent´s journalist storyline, and Batman´s whole arc. That has to be one of the most boring and genericlly written things Ive ever seen. Naah, Man of Steel is a dope movie, but BvS suck balls man... I watched that movie 4 times, and I wouldn´t watch it again even if you paid me.
@@gabrielp9646 it wasnt about the name you dumbass.
Hey Gabriel P I'm sure there are some MCU TH-cam videos comments sections where you can hang out and talk about how's it's the best thing since slice bread . All that and a bag chips and funny too !
@@billypowermax2264 This I find so annoyingly moronic. Can someone not DISLIKE a DC movie without being a MCU fan? Dafuq is this logic? This is one of the things that annoys me the most. That's no way to argue or dismantle his points, it's just petty.
@@billypowermax2264 Me: Man of Steel is great. You: "Im sure there are some MCU comment sections where you can hang out..." Wow, you literally didn´t even read my comment, before writing a response. At least try, dude :S:S
This movie is the new Blade Runner of the 21th century. It was a long time since i saw this film on cinema (4 years now), and I always love it and I never understood the bad reviews, but it seems that this movie is going to get the respect that deserves.
I think "Blade Runner" had bad marketing. Lots of people expected something like "Star Wars 2.5" because Harrison Ford, flying vehicles, special FX, whatever, and found a great neo-noir crime philosophical drama. It was bad marketing.
It was a different movie, more of a political and almost mythical movie, that I think caught everyone off guard really
Didn't help that everyone called it Batman VS Superman...
Should have been named dawn of justice only.
@@DivvayKhatri no. The title was correct. V and vs mean different things. Just "Dawn of Justice" makes no sense.
@@jadonsmith3224 yeah i just wanted some more vs because everyone else wanted that too. That said, i love the movie for what it is. A chapter that feels like it was first written into a comic like watchmen. I really appreciate this kind of movies.
Good point. It’s odd in a way they didn’t establish a base version of Batman before this movie. But the deal is people know Batman and I think the producers believed the masses were ready to be dumped head-first into the deep end of a new version of these characters. Turns out they weren’t quite there. Many regular folks (those unfamiliar with comic storylines like Injustice or post-Jason Todd Lonely Place of Dying) couldn’t see past Batman killing. But the point was he’d lost all hope and become the thing he hated most. The Martha scene, clunky as it was, showed Batman realizing this and taking steps to change his ways. Immediately killing a bunch of dudes aside, I think this would have been explored more in JL had Snyder been allowed to make the movies he planned on. It was clearly leading to either Injustice or some version of JL:War (with a Superman who was basically at the point Batman is in BvS, or maybe Darkseid controlled. Which ever). Anyway, Superman bringing hope and light back into Batman’s world seems like a decent way to tell their stories. I mean, there are odd things about it all (Death of Superman combined with TDKR?), but I was all in.
I love to look at this movie through the lens of my Christian faith. For me, Batman is essentially Apostle Paul. Some people might look at him as Peter, who became a "fisher of men," but I see him as Paul. Saul persecuted Christians until he had a miraculous encounter with Jesus. He was literally blinded by his own hatred, until Peter baptized and anointed him. Saul became the Apostle Paul, and he spread the Word of God farther than any other Apostle.
Batman's journey in BvS is very similar. He judges and hates Superman before he knows the truth of who he really is. During their duel, he is stuck in a tunnel vision of hatred. As he drags Superman to his impending death, on the verge of becoming the demon that haunts his nightmares, Batman says, "I bet your parents taught you that you mean something, that you're here for a reason. My parents taught me a different lesson, dying in the gutter for no reason at all. They taught me the world only makes sense if you force it to." He walks toward the beaten and exhausted Superman, spear in hand, with his foot on Superman's throat, and he says, "You were never a God. You were never even a man." He delivers on his promise to make Superman bleed.
And then, with his last breath, Superman pleads not for his own life, but for the life of his mother. Batman finally recognizes the humanity in Superman, and even sees himself in Superman, because he is now in the same position Bruce was in when he was nine years old: just a helpless child, powerless to prevent his mother's death. From that moment on, he sees Superman not only as a man, but as a brother, symbolized by their mothers sharing the same name.
Superman's eventual death has the most profound effect on Batman. He goes from hating Superman for his mere existence to vowing to honor his memory by "building an alliance" to defend the Earth in his absence. Batman becomes the Apostle Paul of the DC Snyderverse, and I can't wait to see how his journey continues in Zack Snyder's Justice League in 2021.
Interesting take!
I am a Christian too bro and absolutely loved Ben Affleck's redemption arc for his batman in this movie and how superman's death is what brought about that change in him and inspired him to become the batman he once was.
This movie is actually in my top 5 comic book movies
PREACH!
Same
Meh, maybe Man of Steel
Edit: yeah BvS Ultimate Edition is now one of my favorites
Snyder always had the best vision in all the Superhero movies he made. Can't tell me otherwise.
@Daniel Brown no
While I appreciate people turning around and loving this movie, it’s people like this that got Snyder fired from jl and ruined the vision he had for the dceu 😒
So consider this my atonement. I'll be first in line for Army Of The Dead 👍
@@LoverboyMedia now you're the brother who's back.
Snyder quit due to family issues not because he got fired
@@ryanblacker914 No, it was later revealed he had been fired before the family issues even occured and that WB used said family issues to cover up that he was actually fired
@@ryanblacker914 bless your soul
"They'll kill him." "He'll be a god to them."
Out there, among the stars, he'll live.
Out there, among the stars, ding dong, the god is dead
“You were never a god. You were never even a man.”
Awesome thing about that line is that Martha said something similar to clark when he came back and told her that he had found out where he came from. "I'm just worried that they'll take you away from me" she said, showing her fear of losing him to the world be it in a metaphorical sense and a literal one. The sad thing is that they did take her son from her, they berated him and eventually caused his death (by they I mean the world including lex who was more responsible for the latter). Both mothers feared this coming to pass long before it would happen because in some way they understand the nature of living sentient things(reason I'm not saying human nature is because Lara did not not how humans behaved but had an idea based on what I assume was her experience on krypton).
that exchange of words between lara and jor-el are one of favorite interactions in the movie and overall universe simply because of the dialogue and the consequences that come with their actions. :)
They shoulda just put Supes on a cross lmao
BvS is one of those movies I really enjoy. There’s so much going on you catch something new every time you watch it. Especially when you watch it in context with Man of Steel and Snyders Justice League. What I appreciate about the whole story arch of the three movies is that MoS is about birth/life, BvS is about death and JL is about resurrection.
It’s really nice to see Snyder getting the love that he deserves.
Funny how this movie is getting analyzed to this day three years after.
I knew it was going to end up becoming a cult classic.
@@thewateversho223gaming absolutely. I freaking love this movie. I hated being told I was an idiot for loving it. Now, it seems people are coming around. To me, it's so different from any comic movie before and after it. Truly a unique take and ahead of it's time
True. . .
AlwaysSomething Never hate being insulted for liking something. F*ck them! There are plenty of people that are WITH you!
People back when this movie was released were still under the impression that only Marvel type movies make good superhero movies. Now we're in a post-Endgame world and most people have had their fill of Marvel movies and looking for something different
Imagine people after 10 years
THAT’S WHAT IM SAYING!
I truly believe this movie is going to end up like Watchmen. People hated it at first but realized how truly special it is years later.
@@supermagnumable I agree. I loved bvs . I love that wb went dark and gritty. It works best as a batman movie as well it should because it was the first batman since nolan. One of my favorite comic book movies ever!
The only two fuck ups with this film. They needed to explain more as to why Bruce crossed his line of killing and the theatrical release was a mis step. Otherwise I adore this film it's cinematography and in all the balls of this movie
@@Karlos.Fandango. because people didn't wait passionately for the B V Deathstroke to explain it, instead they bashed the movie instantly.
This movie was way ahead of its time.
it deconstructed superheroes when marvel was propping them up..d.c. fans and marvel fans united feeling betrayed by snyder...looking back its way smarter then we thought...and i liked the film back then...despite its hate...i enjoy that over justice league and avengers embracing superheroes..lame...whats so original about that?..
@@razkable you have to deconstruct the superhero genre in order to build them up again. That's why ZSJL feels so rewarding; is not only because of the dark and gritty aesthetic, but celebrating the greatness of the human heart. The power to choose to rise again, stronger, United and with hope. I knew that was meant to be like that, it HAD TO.
I made the comment to my wife after watching it the 2nd time in the theaters that this movie would be like Blade Runner... hated upon release and finally appreciated for what it was much later. When I saw the Ultimate Ed. I knew that comparison (which I qualified at the time) was accurate. BvS is truly heartbreaking.
It's still ahead of it's time.
It’s upsetting that people are just now finding this out. Ugh. I sound like a hipster -_-
Nah screw that, people joked around that my movie critique card was revoked, i would for ever explain and counter debate why the film was great to these so called critics. Anyway , i ask .._. Where were the fans at ? And why now and not then, this is why people need to go to the movies and pay attention to the dam movie .
Seems like the natural reaction to when something is almost immediately paned by general audience. Samething happend for twilight.
Do you sincerely believe this guys reversal of attitude toward the film based on his explanations? All he did was state the entire plot over the course of the video as Snyder intended, he's literally insulting all BvS fans lmao
ShamlotBestRhapsEver true
@@shamlotbestrhapsever7437 He's not insulting us at all.
This is incredibly well written and put together. I've loved this movie from the beginning but you've shown things I never even noticed that makes me love it more. Glad you got to put this up, great job 👏
It’s strange when people gripe about solely 'Affleck killing' - they cherry-pick this one aspect of the film and ignore the story arc.
This Batman is clearly established to be a different Batman, not in his right mind and in a different place. He has lost his hope, he lost his belief in promises, he is suffering from ptsd from untreated trauma, and he dehumanizes criminals as he has taken to branding them! As Alfred directly interpolates “[he has] new rules” and “everything has changed”. As Bruce says “we’ve always been criminals”, showing he sees himself as the same as them. He sees himself as fallen.
A man identifies “there’s a new kind of mean in [Batman]”, showing this change is recent.
Crime-fighting was once a noble pursuit for Batman, but his “fever, rage, the feeling of powerlessness” turned a “good man cruel.” Power corrupts, indeed, but powerlessness corrupts as well.
BvS explored Batman’s damaged psychology by taking the character to his darkest place so he can finally confront his trauma to begin healing from it. This film was a redemption and rebirth.
Also his violence was reactionary and in self-defense, this would be considered manslaughter.
His first MURDER, which was planned and premeditated, would have been Superman. THEN he would have gone over the edge of “no return”.
Great point! I can't believe people ignore that! That's always the laziest complaint.
Haha yeah, that's crazy! It's when people relegate to "BvS sucked because Batman doesn't kill", they've stopped thinking about the film.
Why do people ignore this?
BvS is a beautiful redemption story.
This world is not ready for Nolan and Snyder, and it shows.
Their movies are way ahead of their time.
#restorethesnyderverse
It is very telling that the reconsiderations over the Snyder vision have multiplied. I see more and more of these videos. And rewatching the full cuts of the movies, in my estimation these are masterpieces.
Never understood the accusation that Zack Snyder was a hack director, never understood how people could have blamed ZS for the failures of Justice League. You have brought a level of empathy ive never before seen in video essays. This is nothing short of wonderful. Ive defended MoS and BVS online for ages even against HiTop Films video essay. Never have I witnessed a more misunderstood movie and director. Real shame you had to carry these feelings for so many years.
He's a hack because he takes worlds best superheroes and butchers their characters. Trying to show superman is jesus, and unnecessary slow mo, useless boring discussions all the way
@@balaramchowdary9 Superman has been a Jesus metaphor since the Donner film. Mankiewitz literally called the script for that a Jesus allegory.
Exactly. Once you ignore the crying Marvel kids, you realize how good these movies were. I loved JL, BvS, and MOS since the beginning, even though im in the minority here. But, Zack captures the comics more accurately than most people realize. For example, the beginning of Justice League, was right out of a Batman comic page.
@@theminotaur8015 um, the beginning of JL was a Whedon shoot. As was 75% of the final movie.
I point to the scene in BvSUE where Superman is trying to save people after the bombing, knowing that everything thinks he's responsible. Because that's not what matters.
@@northwindkey Then they both did good. With Whedon's side, I never liked how he brightened the colors. But, fuck yea...The bombing scene is the very essence of Superman. Doing what's right, but also realizing that he failed in not catching it first.
This was surprisingly level-headed. I've always felt this movie was solid despite a few missteps. Everything made sense within the context of the world Snyder had created.
Why are we limited to hit the like button just once? This video would get like 100 likes per day from me.
Batman v Superman's Ultimate Edition is such a gorgeous film. The struggles with the theatrical release disappeared the second I finished the Ultimate Edition.
I went thru the same process from hating the movie to loving it. It was such an unusual arc that I mulled over for months right up to the epiphany that this might be one of the best movies I’ve ever seen.
Wayne has always been the mask
@Tigar0422 Arkham Yes, many of you keep saying that about Batfleck, but Im pretty sure Christian Bale´s Batman portrayed that aspect of Batman way, way better. Heck, half of his arc in Batman Begins was about that, Rachel even says to Bruce in the final scene: "Now I understand. This is your mask (while she touches his face), Batman is the real person".
@@gabrielp9646 You're comparing the character development of Batman from a solo film to a Batman in a joint production. Do you not see the flaw in that?
@@gracialonignasiver6302 I could compare it to solo films like Batman Begins, Batman 1989 or Batman: Mask of the Phantasm, and the result would be the same...
Wayne yes. But not Bruce. As a famous person and a vigilante he has three faces. The one people see, the one criminals see and the one no one sees (except Alfred).
the knightmare scene is critical to the 5 movie arc Zack Snyder had planned.
And it is not a nightmare, it is Bruce receiving memories from Future Bruce because Barry Allen is going through time and interacting with him.
Only Bruce gets it because he is the only one affected by Barry Allen traveling through time.
You know Zack Snyder had that planned because he is christian and believes in souls, if souls are unique and two of the same are sharing the same position in time, they should receive the same information at the same time. And for christians memory is stored in the soul. That means Batman was actually being killed by Superman while Barry Allen went back to the past. Future Bruce might as well have left his bunker as a distraction so no one would notice Flash's absense.
The difference between Future Bruce and Past Bruce is that I think Snyder would have that scene play like that all over again on JL 3, except Bruce consciously does it knowing he might die. And knowing Snyder, the tension when Superman put his hand on Bruce's chest like in his "vision" would be solved by Barry fixing the past right on time, but that future would be erased.
That whole scene of Neil Degrasse Tyson and all that "Superman dilemma" is PURE ART. On par with the bathroom scene of Joker after killing the 3 guys. Hell, is as good as Jonathan Kent looking at kid Clark with the red cape with Zimmer's score!
Thank you.
Took me a year to find this but man this is probably the best video on this movie I've ever seen. I've loved the Snyderverse since its inception, but its fascinating to see into the mind of someone who didnt understand and downright hated it evolving their entire perspective on the material. Massive Kudos to you, you have earned a subscriber in me today.
Did it really come out 5 years ago..........what the fuck
@@ianwilly7118 lol right?