HK DA/SA vs LEM: Which one is for you?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 มิ.ย. 2021
- IT's a question I get a lot. So I made a video about it. It's always a good day when I get to shoot the HK's. I reused shooting footage because 45acp is still $50 a box......sorry..... Didn't have any ducks in the house this time, I'm starting to get concerned. Also did I make it through a video without cussing?
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The Navy Dolphin man blesses us with divine HK knowledge once more
Here for you good Sir.
@@navyman8903 On July first, FL will be another permit-less carry state. Thanks, in part, to our governor. For decades, Floridians have been carrying guns concealed, after getting a permit. Floridians with carry permits commit fewer crimes than those with no permit. I am thinking we may have been better off if we had left it like it was. After decades, it has proven to work well. We will see what happens. I know, if ONE person does something stupid, it will be all over the national news. Even if the overall results are great. The fact is, they want our guns for the same reasons Hitler took the Jews' guns. FDR was the first to go after our guns. He also refused to save any Jews. Read The Jews Should Keep Quiet. By Rafael Medoff. A great novel about freedom is John Grit's Feathers on the Wings of Love and Hate. Let the Gun Speak. All patriotic Americans should support both those authors. Amazon has been known to shadow ban conservative books.
I have lem on my p30s. The only adjustment for me was repetition for holster and draw with my thumb on the hammer. After thousands of repetitions, I covered all of the safety features of the da/sa, via muscle memory, with all of the speed benefits of the lem. It simply won't fire with your thumb on the hammer. That said, my set up is such that I cannot pull back the hammer with my thumb as you were doing, even though it is supposedly a "light lem." It doesn't move without the trigger unless I pry it back with a tool. P30 V1 is all I need it to be.
Nothing quite like a hammer fired HK. Have many but just finally landed my first LEM with a full sized P2000 in 9mm. Found basically new for 600 bucks in the gun craze climate we are in I figured it was a no brainer to bring home. Great video as always. Don't know which is best for me as I've only put like 50 rds through an LEM so far but it is very smooth.
Oh $600 for a P2000 in good condition is a great price.
I have a USP with the LEM trigger and like it quite a bit. For it’s purpose it’s very well thought out.
Good info. I'm thinking the DA/SA is probably the best choice for me. I'm experienced with striker fired and a Beretta PX4.
That groovy ass intro man. Diggin that montage
Thanks I appreciate it.
I have two P30L’s a v3 and a v1, both have the same springs and GG short reset upgrade. The V1 is my favorite, but I’ve have 3 light strikes, I’m going bump up the main spring weight on it. We’ll see how that goes.
I always enjoy your videos man.
Thanks man and it's always good to see you in the comments. I really do love that GG reset kit in the P30L. I have to get it in the standard P30 I have too. But honestly from the factory it's pretty good, possibly the best P30 V3 trigger I've touched. Idk how because I bought it from a friend so I know it's 100% stock. But it doesn't feel as sloppy as the others. So maybe it'll be even better with the GG kit.....let me dig it up and do the install.
@@navyman8903 Every P30 I’ve owned has had a crappy triggers.
I have a DA/SA P30 on the way, I'm curious which spring you're running? I just ordered a 10# for my USP, I was thinking I should've ordered an 11# as well, just in case.
Nice explanation.
Just did a simple rework of my 45c Da/Sa…Nickel sear spring, GreyGuns short reset & heavy trigger return spring. Very Smooth operation with deliberate trigger press. Also switched to de-cock only.
Not that anyone cares, my Wife certainly didn’t…Even tho I chased her around the house with the Gun yelling Babe Ya Gotta try this Trigger!!!
Glad to see another post shipmate
First of all, I love your shit. In my opinion, you are the superior garand thumb. 2nd, are you able or willing to do an install video on the ambi saftey/de-cocker for the hk 45? And is that procedure, the same as putting one in the usp 45? Seems the same, but im not sure
Thanks man, I don't think I meet that high bar of praise. But I appreciate the kind words. It is the same process as putting it in on a USP45. But let me see what I can do when I get back to work after leave is over.
06:29 Thanks for letting that groovy jam play for a bit
Happy to do it, and I feel like it really brought the point home.
ive been wondering where the HK45s were at!
Honestly though, the more I use my VP9 the more I realize its my one and only, so as much as I love my HK DA/SA guns, I've fully embraced the current trends of strikers. I thought about getting a G19 but that pignosin' and the frame shaking like jello during firing are not confidence inspiring.
I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on the rumored HK p365 competitor, especially since it has a button release
I'm not sure they're making one, but I'll ask. IF HK does it right it will be better than everyone's offerings. We shall see. Strikers are good and all but I still love my hammer guns. I will say I like my Gen 5.5 G17 quite a bit. The gen 5.5 glocks are dialed in compared to other gens.
@@navyman8903 I completely agree, if you want a better trigger in the Gen 4 Taran Tactical has the best trigger bar and spring setup in my opinion but I love my Gen 5 gun.
Rick
Light LEM with the GrayGuns Short Rest Kit installed! Or the Light LEM with CDA 4.1 kit AND GrayGuns SR kit. All of my HK’s are in this configuration, and those that I purchased that were not, were converted to it. I like having every handgun be the same variant to maintain consistency. Just my opinion that nobody asked for.
There is something to be said for consistency.
@@navyman8903
You make a solid point about the Light LEM though. I run some guns pretty hard and used to live in Arizona. When I went to the police academy, a guy from Yuma County was in my class and was issued a kimber 1911. Not the best handgun for desert areas. Or any areas really, lol.
@@fearnonebutone4977 He had to learn the hard way huh? Arizona is pretty unforgiving. If my girl and I make it, we'll probably end up out there. She loves it. I've never been out there before. I'm gonna drag her out here to FL and she'll probably drag me out there once I retire lol.
@@navyman8903
You’ll like it man. It’s laid back. HOT, but a dry heat without the humidity of FL. Nice places to do outdoors stuff. Tucson isn’t that great, so try to visit northern Arizona and Scottsdale/Phoenix area. Cheap to live there too, compared to many places. And you can carry without a permit there. I’d say 8/10 cars I pulled over as a cop there, had guns in the car and nobody cares.
Great content man! Appreciate all that you do. I've definitely learned quite a bit from your videos.
My first pistol was an HK P30L V1. Taking some time to get used to it. I'm only roughly 300 rounds in.
What do you find preferrable about the HK P30L V3 over the V1? Do you still own the V1?
The V1 once it breaks in is good to go. I prefer the V3 in the P series. The LEM works best for me in the HK45 or USP series. I don't have the V1 anymore. It was a good gun, just wasn't to my standards like the V3 is.
Gotcha. I wish I could have tried both variants out before I bought my V1 just to compare. Tough guns to find in person to handle.
Just out of curiosity, what about the LEM system on the HK45 and USP feels better to you? Does the Gray guns kit put the P30L V1 in a close ball park to the others?
@@brianlarocque24875 the reset travel and break in the HK45/USP is better vs the P series guns. The grayguns kit does get it very close to the HK45 series which is nice. I'm running the kit in my P30L and it's very close if not identical to the reset on my V1 HK45.
@@navyman8903 Thanks for sharing! I love to hear why certain guns work for people. Most modern guns, at least the ones manufactured by reputable gun makers, are all comparable to each other. It tends to come down to personal preference, and which differences in guns speak to certain people. I was drawn to HK right away for some reason. Definitely going to order the GG kit for my HK. Take care man - look forward to watching future videos from you.
Love the p30 videos keep making em! Do you prefer the p30 or p30L?
I've got more on the to do list. You're also safe because it's one of my dedicated 9mm platforms. I prefer the P30L for almost everything, but one of my CCW's is the P30 V3 9mm.
I am speaking for myself only, the LEM is far superior! I think especially for edc, the take up will help prevent neglect discharge and same trigger pull every time like a striker is what makes it fantastic. Having said that the light LEM is the way to go, if you want an amazing trigger send it to Grays Guns, Bruce and team make it stellar.
As always YMMV, these are just my opinions.
Rick
I really want to try the lem system, but I prefer to have the same set up for all my self defense pistols (da/sa). I got my first HK about 6 months ago, a USP, and now I’m an HK fan. Bought a P30sk about 2 months ago and about to get the HK45. I really don’t have a need for a P2000 but still want one. I’ll probably get it on that gun
Which is simplest and easiest to use for home protection and target practice? Which is more consistent and safe?
This is an excellent overview! 🙏 I feel at the end of the day that even though the LEM has environmental condition risks, (any) striker fire handgun has an even higher failure risk from my humidified climate experience
Ooo early morning action from the best dude on the nets. I have aDA/SA but I really wanna try them LEM.
The LEM on the HK45 is quite nice and my favorite out of all that I have tried. My full size is really really good and Jesse did something special on my HK45c. They're both excellent.
@@navyman8903 I've got a v3 with a safety but after thinking about your video for a few min, I might be better served with a v3 without a safety for CC. I usually ride the reset, but I've got no idea how I'd handle pressure and adrenaline.
@@SnapD24 I like the P30's without the safety for sure. The LEM HK45's also are really where it's at for how I grip the pistol. The Fullsize HK45 is okay with the lever, but the HK45's I tend to choke up on because their recoil is a little more stout. As for pressure, just gotta keep doing drills and training, but it is hard to simulate life or death stress for sure.
So far all my HKs are DA/SAs except for my P2000 which is a heavy LEM and in my carry rotation. I carry appendix and I don't feel comfortable carrying strikers with the exception of the Walther P99. I would go to the P2000SK but after finally getting the chance to handle one recently I don't think it's for me, I don't like to dangle a pinky on anything larger than a .25 and I have baby hands.
whats the purpose of having a heavy trigger? Never heard of someone preferring it
@@paladin3116 LEM is "kinda" like DAO but it has a reset similar to single action if you ride it. The trigger pull isn't quite as heavy as double action. It's mostly to have the benefits of a striker (same trigger/no manual safety) with the double strike capability of a hammer gun. The P99 Anti-Stress system is pretty much a striker fired gun you treat like a DA/SA. Basically unless you ride the reset you're better off with a normal DA/SA or a striker as far as LEM goes.
I somehow missed this video, and it has answered most of my questions. Now I'm going to have to really think about the HK45 LEM or the HK45C LEM. Or, do I scrap the .45ACP issues regarding the high expense of ammo and continue expanding my 9MM's since I really do like my VP7 9MM, and get me a hammer gun...... I should not have sold my CZ P07, it was a dandy! As always, Thanks and Blessings Shipmate..... HOOYAH!
Glad I could help out and let me know if you need anything. Peace and blessings to you as well Shipmate.
@@navyman8903 I sure do appreciate your kind assistance, and I've learned quite a bit about the LEM system from you. You have often mentioned the LEM Light, and when I try to research it in the HK45 Operators Manual, I'm not seeing the "Light" distinction, but only the LEM V7* and I'm wondering if this is what you're talking about. Traditionally, I do prefer the .45ACP over the 9MM, and I really would like to find the HK45 LEM over the DA/SA, so I want to make sure I fully understand if I need to look for the LEM V7 or LEM Light? By chance, are you at Kings Bay? Thanks again, and I hope you had a great CHRISTmas!
@@tmaddrummer Yes there are different LEM variants that weigh the trigger after the hammer is precocked. Light LEM is about 4-4.5 lb break, medium is about 6-7 lb break, and the heavy I think is somewhere in the 8-10lbs. Light LEM or in the HK45 the V7 variant, is the way to go. IT's also the variant they sell here in the US, I haven't seen the medium or heavy LEM here.
@@navyman8903 ….. BINGO! Thanks for your patience and understanding and sharing your knowledge! Realistically speaking, I think that I would like to have both the HK45 and Compact models, and depending upon what I can find first, I might have to just go that route. Even after saying that, my gut is telling me to go full size. Thank you so much! I only asked about your location hoping that maybe I might someday get to meet you in person. Thanks and Blessings Shipmate! That, by the way is old Navy talk, and I don’t even know if current Sailors still use this term, so pardon this old Sailor, and thanks again Shipmate!
@@tmaddrummer We still use shipmate here and there, though it's not the same as it used to be. I'm looking forward to retiring here soon, lots of changes have pushed some things in the right direction, and a lot of things in the opposite direction. I'm always happy to have conversations in the comments and answer questions where I can. It's good to have a good group of people/build a community of solid people. I'm stationed in Florida right now. We'll see where the Navy takes me after here. I've got to finish this duty station, and hopefully stay here for a my last duty station. We'll see what the detailers do.
I love further refined DA/SA guns. I have an LTT parts that I installed in my Beretta 92FS and it is so amazing!!! I also removed the stupid safety selector and replace it with a decocker only. You do not need a safety on a gun that has a long 5-8 pound trigger (depending how it’s modified) as your first pull. it’s perfectly safe to carry a 5 pound trigger without a safety. Glocks do it all the time. If it makes you nervous to carry a gun without a safety, then train better. 😂 I heard one idiot say that I need a safety on my gun because I have children. I said to her, you do realize you’re just admitted to me that you’re not responsible enough or safe enough to have guns or children. 😢
Lol! No Step on Snek! Brilliant! Great video, thanks for sharing.
Finally figured out how to work the LEM on my P2000 V2 last time at the range. Bought used, date code says it is a 2012 model. My wife is have trouble with staying on target but maybe she is a trigger slapper, might be her problem.
What is your opinion about the long term reliability of the LEM Trigger?
I think if you stay current on parts replacements you'll be good to go. But it'll last based on firing schedule and charge. IF you're running ammo that's hard on the gun it'll obviously increase wear. Todd G did a great review of his LEM HK. IT documented parts breakages and such.
DA/SA for my HK's!
I’ve got the lem version with the grey guns short reset system. Love it
Picking up my first LEM (45c). Super curious about all the differences with USP45c (mine is v1).
I’m 💯 on LEM. Why doesn’t anyone else even offer this?
@@christofonobrown3659 HK found a way to make it good. Others probably couldn't find a cost effective way to apply it to their own setups or patent/intellectual rights. Not sure.
I've had an HK45CT V1 for Carry for a while now. Just got it's bigger brother HK45T LEM for Battle Belt / house duty...and WOW the difference is huge!
I want to send my Carry gun off to have the LEM conversion done now >.< It has an awesome stippling job so no, I don't want to just buy a different one.
If your into DA/SA guns isnt having a heavy trigger on the first shot kind of the whole point? Not attacking your opinion here, just trying to understand what the point of the lem is when the first pull is so light. I also think that the trigger going all the way back forward on the follow up shots would drive me crazy lol and I am not a trigger slapper....
LEM is the best trigger system for CCW. I just bought VP9 for $499 with 3 17rds mags plus $200 HK store credit and this is my new love.
I do really like it for that particular application.
Any chance for the LEM to fire if the hammer gets caught on clothing and pulled back while in the holster. Thanks!
Only if the trigger is pressed. There is a disconnect that prevents that. I forget the nomenclature of the part but it stops the hammer from doing that.
What holster do you run for your HK45s?
This one is a Safariland 6004 for an HK45. I have some other's I'm looking into.
Any reason why you couldn't just go with the DA/SA model that doesn't come with the safety? Basically decocker only.
@@Actual-user Yes, I would imagine carrying the LEM model with the hammer cocked would be unsafe. Ditto for the DA/SA only version (P30L 81000119, P30SK 81000299, etc.)
Just so we're all on the same page, how do you define "light" LEM in terms of pull weight?
The pull weight associated with the V7 in the HK45 and USP45, or the V1 in the P30 series.
Langdon Tactical is building P30s now in LEM and DA/SA with optic cuts.
Yeah I'm mixed on them since it's just Gray Guns parts with a chrome silicone spring.
I need to try a LEM but none of the gun shops have them. To summarize LEM:
#1. Long but light weight first trigger pull,
#2. if do a reset then lightweight short trigger pull
#3. if release the trigger then pistol decocks and any subsequent trigger pulls will be like #1. Right?
I recently picked up a P30 LEM from Langdon Tactical with a flat Gray Guns trigger and RDS slide cut. I am extremely happy with the set up.
Trigger pull is the same aside from second strike capability. He's just showing that you could let the slack out of the Trigger on reset- if you're a Trigger slapper. There's no reason to do this otherwise.
I tried to like the LEM on a USP, but I changed it out for a match trigger. I just purchased a P30 in .40, It's DA/SA, I like my hammer!
I traded the P30 to get my USPc back! Now I'm shopping for a P30LS, but finding one in .40 is harder...
All of the HK DA/SA triggers I’ve ever felt are subpar to me, so I choose LEM. I’ve got a grayguns P30L and a factory HK45 in LEM and I have a USP 45 that will be LEM as soon as the kits come back into stock.
I absolutely agree it’s not for everyone, though. I always recommend people try it before they buy it if at all possible.
Definitely recommend everyone give a light LEM a try and learn to run it. It's honestly a smooth and fast trigger once you master it. Gives you a nice and crisp reset. It's also 100% safe to holster if you thumb over hammer. Perfect for concealed carry IMO.
I hated The DA/SA on My former USP.45. So much so that I sold it. The LEMV7 is excellent!
would you say both are equally safe for conceal carrying? Not blowing buddies off for a new shooter
Yes so long as they follow the safety rules. If they can't keep their finger off the trigger then DA/SA with a lot of reps until they get it.
I'm allergic to HK's.. so LEM might as well be BMG. I have a p229, cz75 and p99, I do like DA/SA.. but I'm all about striker fire myself.. I did teach Lucas how to run tactics and he teaches SOP... so you actually probably learned from my training and expert knowledge about how to operate; you can thank me later the next time you come run drills for me.
This video torn me even more cause im a trigger slapper but i dont wanna be
Imma boutta get an LEM either in an HK45 or HK45c
I've had a standard DA/SA. Now I have The LEMV7. I like it MUCH better!
It's all about what fits you and what your needs are. I really do love my V7 as a CCW option. It's fast and smooth.
Can the LEM be put into the heavy DA mode if a round is in the chamber?
No. Not unless you keep the decocker installed. It would defeat the purpose IMO.
@@navyman8903 I don’t think they come with a decocker?
@@warparker8554 they don't, but you can splice one in or modify a V1 with a V7 kit, but leave the safety/decocker.
Just got a P30L LEM, but going to be a bit before I send some rounds through it.
Good news, and I hope the time flies by. They start pretty stiff so just remember that when you're shooting the first 400-500 rounds. Try to stick with 124ge NATO pressure. Let me know how you like it if you don't mind.
From my findings in regards to HK pistols in stock configuration.
Best trigger goes to the P7 series.
Best SA/DA goes to the Mark 23.
Worst trigger goes to the P30.
Worst trigger system ever goes to the LEM. Maybe tied with the Sig DAK.
Nah man it's not even close with LEM and DAK. DAK is straight caca. The MARK 23 has the best single action out of the DA/SA's but the worst DA. The P7M8 has the best trigger though.
Ever shot a VP70? It will make a P30 Trigger feel like a precision target pistol trigger by comparison.
Another Goodie 🙂
ok, keep in mind this person is talking about self defense. Saying you must carry with a round in the chamber is very narrow minded. I am an old person with much experience with many fire arms and many situations. these days i mostly am single action revolver as my personal greatest threat has been woodchucks digging at building foundations. i often carry a sig with an empty chamber around the farm. i have cameras and space that allow me time to decide if i should rack one. so on topic with which one is for you, only you decide
What song was played in the intro?
It's in the description with a link.
@@navyman8903 got it, thanks!
New phone. Took a sec to figure out how to pull the descriptions up.
Great explanation. Thought I waned Lem until I shot one a few different times. Still like the DA SA better. Lol but I’m older and set in my ways lol
Which is also fine.
Carrying all my USP45s cocked and locked varient 9. Wondering if I should try out LEM.
LEM is quite nice in the light variant. Medium isn't that bad either, but the light is where it's at. The USP series trigger will be just as light as the HK45. Also....I'm taking my USP45 with the UTL out tomorrow so....be prepared for something next week.
@@navyman8903 enjoy my dude! Glad to see the hard work you are putting out
@@reker.a5790 Thanks man.
@@navyman8903 My favorite thing about the Light LEM trigger spring is that it takes up very little room in the trash can 😂
I had it in for a few thousand rounds and couldn’t stand how it felt like trigger was made of mashed potatoes so I went and installed the heavy TRS and it is _awesome._
Badass! Navyman!
Thanks man. I appreciate it.
@@navyman8903 How's the Mk23 Sig P226 Legion doing? gonna do any updates on those Badboys?.
@@zacharyfernandez9944 Waiting on ammo, but I have things planned for sure. Also waiting on getting a can for the MARK 23, and a Threaded barrel for the P226.
@@navyman8903 Nice if u can do a Update Video on Both that would be Great! i have Both Sidearms.
@@zacharyfernandez9944 In the works. Gonna take me a while to put them together with shooting footage. I did do a 4K round update on the Sig recently.
This that doctor disrespect music
Agreed… why my P30L CDA 4.1 match tactical with de-cock function.
Best of ALL worlds
I’d like to get an HK pistol at some point, and mill it for an rmr or the new acro p2.
If you get the new ACRO let me know how you like it.
The HK for me is the P7M8.
That's a great choice honestly.
Da/sa for me! Cz p07 with decocker! EDIT: when a Glock isn't in my pants that it...
Well the short version of that for me is well I have 1 of each And I have the great guns mod for both and I'm likely gonna get the limb Fine tuned from Langdon tactical Hopefully going to be Working there as soon as humanly Possibly possible Working with them or breaking and someway shaper Working with them or breaking and some way shape or form
I'll take both I'm not that picky. I don't carry one in the chamber I have 4 grandsons around alot, but if I drive through a bad area get gas or go too a store at night I will put one in . If I never had little kids around it would be different because I know alot of people would never admit it I have had a couple close calls or stupid mistakes. But I do train to load one in the chamber.
That's completely fair and you have experience so.....outside the wire and away from the kids, condition 1.
@@navyman8903 exactly.
Trigger reset and ride the recoil ;)
LEM is fantastic.
I'm very happy with it. Best concealed carry hammer gun option.
I have both a P30 and P30sk with the LEM trigger.
LEM with Grey guns short reset mod is the truth!
I have to give that piece a try next I think. I don't have an LEM gun with it anymore, and with the HK45 I imagine it's hyper precise.
@@navyman8903 my buddies stock hk45 LEM was as nice as my GG LEM. I want it, he won’t sell it to me lol.
So, buy both versions..... :)
I mean..........yes.
LEM. Because Eli.
I might do a tribute video to that if I can get that cool edit/camera work.
@@navyman8903 I have a 45C in LEM and was planning on getting another in DA/SA... then I saw Book of Eli and I think the next HK is going to be the full size 45 in LEM, simply because of that movie.
I liked your point about DA/SA being possibly more resilient in dusty/sandy/muddy/humid environments.
Two and half minute intro? C'mon, really?
Shorter than some, longer than others. It's a process honestly. But I get it.
Video starts at 2:30
Love them both, but I’m a sucker for LEM.
Great, you can shoot…how about talking about the trigger systems !!
I'm not a fan of any of the HK trigger variations.("match" included) Potentially great pistols ruined by shoddy triggers.
Call Me crazy, I still love My Glock's more than My HK. The USP45 is a bad bitch! It's track record is why I'm keeping it.
1st
Yes indeed.
stop micromanaging other people if they should have one in the chamber or not. it's a personal choice.
No round in the chamber has been proven to be slower and often has lethal consequences.
@@itsme6026 everything you said is false. Back it up with real world scenarios.
@@itsme6026 ah yes, the tried and true resorting to personal insults when you've got nothing to back your argument up.
Video starts at 2:40