Testing 3D Printed Resins: Is Water Washable Better?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ธ.ค. 2020
- Water Washable resin prints are far more convenient than alcohol resins, but do they sacrifice in the quality department?
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Links to the resin used in this video:
Ameralabs AMD-3 Resin: ameralabs.com/shop/amd-3-led/ (The best resin I have ever used, and I LOVE it. But probably not necessary for the average hobbyist.)
Water Washable Elegoo Resin: amzn.to/38fu3wL
Elegoo Gray Resin: amzn.to/3p5Vhwu
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• "Summer Groove" Future... - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
“Thiccness equals quality” a man of culture i see
Mama raised me right :)
@@Rybonator jokes aside, higher viscosity does not necessarily mean better quality. The oligomers are the most viscous components of a formulation and in theory, the more oligomer you have, the better the mechanical properties you are trying to achieve, however the viscosity must be low enough to make it printable. There's also a myriad of oligomers available on the market, from high molecular weight to low molecular weight, from high viscosity with average properties (cheaper) to low viscosity with superior properties (specialty material), so it's not a linear relationship between formlation viscosity and overall quality of the resin. Which quality are we considering? Mechanical properties? Printability and visual aspect? There's too much to factor in to simply summarize everything with "higher viscosity = better quality".
@@arthurkassardjian5172 nerd
@@evanb.5726 you're welcome
@@arthurkassardjian5172could i add oligomers to resin ive bought to change the properties?
For the Alcohol, I would genuinely suggest pouring it through a fine filtermesh AFTER curing the "vat" of Alcohol. That way the resin inside is sortof cured and gets caught by the filter. It saves so much money.
The muck that is left on the filter can then be disposed as per your country's guidelines.
I absolutely filter the resin off when I out it back in the bottle :)
Nice idea! I will try that.
@@Rybonator He means to hit the alcohol bin with some uv to cure the resin mixed with the alcohol and then filter it to get back some of that alcohol
I use a normal degreaser (Mean Green) - but then I rinse in clean alcohol, it helps evaporate the left-over water and removes whatever stuff was in the degreaser. The actual amount of alcohol is then greatly reduced.
Nice advice!
The Miniatures after taking a pounding from a hammer
"I didnt hear no bell"
I want a Randy marsh barbarian miniature now
@@Rybonator that would be awesome DO IT!
@@Rybonator next video maybe
He's baaaccckk. Hope all is well bro❤
Thanks my friend :) good to be back!
Watching you damage and break minis pains me but I understand sacrifices must be made for science. Great video! It’s always interesting to see how much you’ll do to test things and help us learn.
Happy to help learn new things if it means I get to smash stuff :)
i don't know why but those snapping sounds were surprisingly pleasing
Right? I could snap resin all day.
I neither make dice nor 3D print with resin...why am I so addicted to this channel?!? Welcome back!!!
“I don’t have any scientific tools” what are you talking about?? Hammers are SUPER scientific!!
Bill Nye would agree! :)
I’d say these were some pretty scientific tests you don’t need them fancy tools
It was actually pretty interesting to see how they all compare, I’ll have to send to my dm since he dabbled in 3D prints
Science is using home depot hammers now! :)
It occurs to me that this makes 3D printed minis seem a lot more sturdy than I'd been lead to think. Glad of it too, I've found some I wanted to get printed to paint but I was worried about damaging them
I just got the elegoo mars 2 today, as well as a bottle of the water washable resin, and I love how it's kind of plug and play. I just leveled the plate and started the test print, and when it finished it looked amazing, and the cleanup is much less complicated since I don't have to worry about having =>95% iso on hand. Other than that, super excited to get started on printing
Well to be fair these are chunky solid minis i wouldn't imagine a delicate elf bladesinger mini would withstand the fall or the hammer unscathed
Oh I am sure. They are also hollow, so I gave them a BIT of a pass on that end. But you are right :)
@@Rybonator even hollow they have more material than like 80 precent of my miniatures of that scale
It amazes me every time I have a question about resin 3D printing, Rybonator comes out with a video about it the next week.
I'm just looking out for my boi Ethan ;D
I dont know what ur protocol is for reclaiming ur alcohol but I hope this still helps. After collecting the murky alcohol i would set it out in the sun and wait for the resin to fall out of solution. Then instead of directly filtering it i would first decant or siphon the relativly clear alcohol of and leave the muck behind. If u are filtering the alcohol i think this step could be quite handy because the sludge can clog ur filter and then it would take ages to filter through. Then if u filter the sludge maybe a coffe filter, if its still realy cloudy just add it to the next batch if decanting and for the relativly clear alcohol maybe try something finer like a funel with a long neck which u can stuff with cotton on top activated carbon or charcoal and on top of that some more cotton or just another one or two coffe filter. Now u have hopefully some clear alcohol but also some wet sludge and also moist filter papers, other equipments u used here and maybe also some wet filter charcoal and cotton. To reclaim the alcohol from these i would first whipe everything drenches i alcohol down and put these wipes and all the other stuff ecxept for the equipment, which now should be just normaly washed and dried, into a small dark container without a lid, which then can be put in a clear container with a lid. When u put this into the sun the alcohol should vaporise and condese on inside. To help this process u could cool the top of the container with water open to the air and create a spot on the inside of the lid for the droplets to collect and fall into a second smaller clear container or just directly to the bottom. Also its important that the drops dont fall back into the black container so even if dont use the second one, knowing where the alcohol collects is quite important. I should probably also mention that u dont want pressure to build up and to keep it away from sources of ignition. U pretty much have a vessel full of air and alcohol vapor which can explode if egnited. The pressure that builds up before a container burst is essential to the power of an explosion so yeah if u wanna play it safe use plastic wrap as lid and maybe leave a small hole near the rim so u can still put water on top of it. Dont trust me, im just a nobody from the net :)
I think this is a great testament to models that are created specifically for resin printers. The chunky aesthetic looks amazing and makes things so much stronger.
thanx a lot for your time makint the video, gracias
Honestly, anymore I only go with higher quality resins. Blu from Siraya Tech being my go to. Before I switched over, I was finding I was having way too many issues with warping and bed adhesion. After the switch, I don't think I've had a single failed print in over a year. Pair that with a wash/cure station and clean up is quick and easy.
Phrozen makes a line called "Aqua". its not water wash resin but with a simple rinse in alcohol they clean wonderfully with soap and water. cool test
ps get a new thumb drive. those white ones they give you will start corrupting saves sooner or later.
Oh good to know! I'll try aqua and a new thumb drive haha
If you put a little screen cover just over the bottom of the isopropyl cleaning vat, the resin settles underneath it, letting your isopropyl last longer.
Also, if you get a single UV LED hooked up to a proper power source, you can often cure the insides of most hollow prints with very little adjustment.
Thank you for the wonderful video, as someone who is just starting out with 3d printing (its on its way) this video was very helpful for a more definitive answer to which type of resin I should get.
Glad to help my friend :) Yeah I wish I knew the difference in them before I got started. They both have advantages and disadvantages. You can't REALLY go wrong, but I do like the water washable for the convenience :)
This is super helpful!
Does he not realize 99% rubbing alcohol evaporates at room temperature? "Disposal" could be the exact same if he just left out his dirty alcohol in a waist container. While I do get you are still buying something there's a few ways to make it 10x easier. My first two suggestions would be a magnetic mixer they are like $20 and include a magnetic pill you put in your alcohol. Second don't scrap your prints off until they are done being rinsed. Make or print a mount to hold your build plate suspended in the alcohol. Set a 3min timer and you can walk away. When you come back they will be rinsed and ready to be scrapped off and put right in your curing chamber. Bonus tip fill a small spray bottle with alcohol, spray everything off right after removing it from the printer and before you put it in the bath. A prerinse will make your main alcohol last quit a bit longer!
Love your videos Rybonator just some tips on alcohol use. Its actually pretty none toxic, as long as you don't drink it ;), do to its low evaporation point. I consider it a must have when working with glues and resins just for cleanup but I'll definitely be giving some water washables a try.
These are great tips! Honestly don't know why I didn't think to just let it evaporate haha :)
@@Rybonator We all have those moments! I've got to thank you for your 3D printing videos to btw. I've been an avid FDM printer user for a while and just got a Resin printer for even better minis and mold masters. Your video's on supporting dice and even more so your free use models are invaluable it was near impossible to find a free set of RPG dice!
One video I'd like to see you do is: How often do you level your baseplate? Do you relevel after every print? Wait until a print goes bad? Or a specific time frame? How often should it be done?
Loved this thank you so much
Great comparison, enjoyed it 👏
The filing speed is actually a good thing for most prints. Something to think about when considering a swap to water-washable.
I just got an elegoo like two weeks ago, and have been wanting to get into dice making, guess I should get some alcohol washable resin, thank you!
Water Washable does tend to have a lot more issues with silicone, so it's not great for dice in addition to it being worse for sanding.
awesome. thx for your time
This was really helpful since I’m thinking about getting into this kind of hobby.
First video from you and 30 seconds in i wss alredy subscribed... you are hilarious!
Thank you for this!
Awww yay its nice to see you back
Thanks Lily
i saw mimics and immediately got excited
Or was it just an ordinary treasure chest ;D
Thank you! This was exactly the information I was hoping to find. :-)
I started 3d resin printing and noticed the model from the water washable was brittle. Your video did help educate me in better understanding what to be looking for when choosing the right resin
Love the video.
Question did you have issues with the washable resin cracking after curing?
I've printed hundreds of minis and washed them with soap and water just fine
personally ive found water washable is great as long as its a translucent colour. the opaque ones like the grey and black crack over time ruining your prints, they are also way more prone to warping than your alcohol wash resins
Yeah major issue with those resins which is never mentioned
I guess the good thing is the resin is pretty cheap and most minis are resin sippers. I'll have to keep an eye on my Warhammer proxies as time goes on. Hopefully keeping them in proper storage conditions will ease the 'decay' as well as the paint/clear coat.
Hollow prints reduce resin use by 50 - 60% which is a considerable savings if you're printing with Siraya Blu or AmeraLabs. But I get your point that the uncured resin inside is less than ideal. Drain holes are supposed to allow the washing fluid to get inside and rinse it out; either those flame head figures didn't have holes or they didn't work. Thanks for the comparison video!
Oh totally! The AMeralabs probably saved $1 per mini haha. I just don't ever like it when it leaks out later, which seems to always happen to me. But it could be that my cleanup process is less than ideal. Who knows!
Glad you liked it :)
*Sees the "Tiny book mimic" figure, gets flashbacks to Ragnarok Online and their Rideword enemy*
WE ARE HERE TO TORMENT YOUR MEMORIES :)
I love the fact that this video is published after I've been looking up resin printers a lot over the past two days, perfect timing! Are you gonna get one of the flex plate systems (like Wham Bam) to make it easier to take prints off your build plate?
Perfect timing :) I might try that sometime! Didn't know it existed until your comment!
For the love of God you beautiful man please just get some Wham! Bam flexible sheets. You’re killing me with those scraping techniques.
Thank you very much :-) I just pre ordered the Mars 3 4K and looking for what Resin to get it seems the water washable one seems to be just as good and overall need less extra stuff and in turn less cost :) thank you bud :)
I was thinking about water washable resins and how they'd fair against regular resin. And here you come swooping in with just the vid I need again! Thank you! Great work, yo! I'm curious though. Other than sanding the areas where the supports were, why do you need to sand the masters? Could the sanding be saved for the tabletop resin?
Gobin back, me happy
To dispose of the alcohol you can let it evaporate and then cure the resin for disposal like you do water. Just don't let it evaporate indoors unless extremely well ventilated.
Solar Ice Tee bottles, is my solution for treating the IPA post use. I have two gallon size Solar Ice Tea bottles. When the IPA get cloudy, I put in in the bottle, and leave it out in the sun for a while, and then filter the contents to get rid of the resin.
I use mean green super strength for washing minis and it works great and it's much cheaper than isopropyl alcohol. I use isopropyl alcohol to wipe things down but I use it in very tiny quantities and mainly because it evaporates and leaves no residue so it's great for wiping down the build plate before doing the next print. About $10 in mean green cleaner last me a couple months and the seven and a half dollar bottle of isopropyl alcohol lasts me three or four.
Hi Rybo, great video and quite informative. I was wondering if you would do a video on acetone smoothing (I don't know if it works on uv resin ?)
I might be able to do that! But I think there is already a pretty comprehensive version out there for FDM printers. Just don't know if there is one on resin prints.
Hey! It does not work for resin prints ;-)
Any plans to look at these after a few weeks again? I think I made a mistake by making some masters for dice out of water washable because after letting them sit for about a month, I began to see cracks in the dice as if the resin had shrank and the resin began to separate at possible stress lines (or maybe print layers). Nothing catastrophic but after some research this seems to be a common occurrence.
Hi I know this query isn't related to this video but im having trouble getting sorta clear for making dice moulds in the UK. Whats the next best alternative? Thanks :)
I actually think the build lines are really cool 😂 it’s adding some textures to it
thanks rybonator, was wondering about this :D
Of course! Happy to help Andy :)
I started with water washable having struggled to find any IPA in anything like reasonable prices for the quantities needed, definitely now considering changing though.
Try cutting Siraya Tech Tenacious with ABS like Resin. It's pretty expensive but if you only use a 10-20% ratio than the price difference is not much and it adds a lot of shock absorbance.
Im new at 3d print. What resting settings did you use to get these sharp details? My validation test shows 1.5 sec but when printing minis they are complete fails. Thx
My biggest problem with (one) water washable resin is that it was not very resilient to environmental changes. I live in a moderately humid environment and over summer (when temperatures and humidity were a bit elevated) an entire year's worth of resin prints using water-washable resin developed fine surface cracks. This was large prints, small prints, hollowed prints, non-hollowed prints, primed prints, painted prints. etc. All of them. It was heartbreaking!
Maybe it's a difference in the resin (even though it's just a different color Elegoo water washable resin but I have the ceramic gray and for most prints I don't have any discernable lines on it and don't need too much post-processing outside of cleaning up support locations. I also only expose it for about 6 seconds a go on my Anycubic Photon.
hey hope you're doing well
What do you recommend for ball jointed dolls that you have to paint?
FYI this is a December 2022 comment.
I have an Anycubic Photon M3. I have tried the Anycubic water washable and the eSun water washable resin. These are my personal observations:
Anycubic WW: needs less exposure time, hard but brittle
eSun WW: less viscous than Anycubic, needs more exposure time but more impact resistant, less brittle than Anycubic but still fragile
I don't have a washing and curing station so I opted to go for the water washable. It's more expensive than the standard resin. Lastly, I agree that although it is water washable, it still needs to be disposed properly.
How do you dispose of the water you used to clean the resin of the print? thanks.
Hey! Thank you for posting! This is an awesome video! I laughed at the hammer test, not gonna lie. I did think of a question though... painting. Which type of 3D resin pained the best? Did you have to do anything other then clean them to paint them? Did the paint colour change at all because of the nave mini colour? I’m curious...
Frankly, if you're going to paint the minis (or anything else you print), those build lines will disappear after about two coats of paint (maybe even just a primer will be enough).
So... I'm taking away to use WW unless I plan to leave a print unfinished, and then break out the high quality resin for super smooth finish.
Though, with proper dialing in of your exposure and lift speeds, those lines might even smooth out more...
Thanks though - def going to give WW a try now. I wasn't sure. I've heard such mixed response.
Exposuretime 8 S isn't it to long ?
I got my first resin printer the Elegoo Mars 3 Pro 6 weeks ago and changed it from 2.5 S to 1.8 S for water washable resin without any problems !
What about drop tests for minis with little details? Since my minis seem to most suffer from me accidentally knocking them off tables, heh....
I wonder if the build lines are still visible or are an issue when they're all primed up
All of their contests can only be entered if you already have your own printer. If I had a printer, I wouldn't need to win one, and since I don't, I've never been able to enter into a single one of their contests.
btw You have to have your resin prints hollow. The not fully cured resin on the inside of not hollowed out prints will rot them from the inside out. Just rinse your hollow models better and there won't be any of that resin left inside. A lot of the professionals recommend an ultra sonic cleaner to make it easier.
True! It's a definite circle of printers haha. But I guess you would then be able to possibly upgrade printers and sell your old one :)
I would say that isn't true - That's why people have resin prints that last years that are solid. You are CURING it as you run the printer. You are essentially EXTRA curing the outside because it gets covered in liquid uncured resin, which is why hollow prints do the same. But hey, just my opinion :)
How would you dispose of the water if it is below freezing outside? Also, if it rains, I assume you would not want the water flowing over, how would you deal with this problem.
Water washable can you take it of the plate first and then put in the water and is cold or hot water best?
You clean UV resins outside in the sunlight?
so what do you do with the water you washed them in?
I didn't see anyone else mentioning this, but is there a reason your elegoo resin settings are what they are? My bottles suggest 60 second initial layers and 8 second subsequent layers, whereas you had 100 and 11. That might be why you're getting a bit more noticeable print lines on those resins and a little less detail on the minis. I've done a few tests above and below the 60/8 and those are what worked best for me. I use primarily Elegoo's water washable resins.
is there any difference in regard to priming or painting them? (ex. does acrylic stick better or in less coats to one than the other?)
Not that I have found. Priming sticks the same to all of them, and you NEED to prime before painting :)
From my experience it's the same. Also, the first think I noticed that resin prints are amazing for painting without priming as opposed to PLA prints or the injection mold plastic. I bought different colours of water washable resin, to save time on priming for the purpose of undercolor basecoating.
Jan2021... watching a bunch of your vids. Yesterday, I watched your March 2020 vid about making dice masters, and today I watched this one about 3d printing resins. In the resin comparison vid you said you would NOT use the water washable resins for dice masters because of issues with sanding, but in the dice master video, you gushed over how nice the water washable prints came out with the sanding/polishing fabrics. Why the big flip? ;)
Honestly when I had nothing to compare them to, they seemed amazing! But I now have the comparison to say that sanding seems to go a bit easier without water washable, rather than with :)
2:43 To be clear, you don't HAVE to use alcohol. Other cleaners work as well or better. I use Simple Green. It's cheaper, safer, doesn't smell as bad, and you can save the alcohol for medical purposes.
Oh damn, those are way easier to obtain too
That's why I say you CAN buy other materials, but I have not experimented with those, so I kept it out of the vid. But you are totally right :)
I'd be curious to see how each of them would hold up under a hydraulic press, haha! That'll give you some science-y figures xD
I mix elegoo ABS-like resin with the siraya tech that’s flexible (don’t have the bottle with me for the full name). Because my miniatures need to be floor proof lol. The mix is like 10% siraya/90% abs. It really helps with the durability with minimum detail loss. Virtually none but if you get very close I imagine you’ll find some details are less sharp.
Because of that I had to switch to alcohol. You can mix the water washable with the others but you can’t then wash it with water so yeah.
The downside with water washable resin so far is simply less variety. We’ll see about that in the future!
I print with the elegoo mars “not pro” special basic edition.
Edit: if you wait about 2 days after printing you’ll see the real durability of the resin.
Is the Plant Based Resign also water washable? Or you have to use IPA to wash it?
I really like the translucent resin from elegoo when it comes off the printer but It ALWAYS turns yellow after mere seconds of light exposure. Have you had any success or tried the clear translucent resin?
I have used the transparent blue before, but always paint them, so I wouldn't be able to tell ya sadly
ive found the same with white resins, all I can tell you is to use a very low power UV led for short periods then spray with uv sealer
@@snailorgy I've even tried leaving it in a window that has a fog film on it and it almost instantly yellows my resin lol
@@snailorgy sometimes even washing it in IPA will turn it yellow too. Makes no sense
love it
Thanks
can you use the printed models rather than creating moulds?
What is your layer height? I use anycubic resin at .025 layer height and I have never seen lines.
Are we still getting a video on if inhibitX is needed on 3d printed dice before molding?
Yes! Probably next month :)
@@Rybonator Awesome! Thank you. By the way are you trying out any inhibitX alternatives like clear acrylic spray?
What about ECO resin which is still IPA washable?
Personally I've noticed a difference in colours as well. Black is always a bit more flexible if you compare water washable against water washable.
Nice video, you don't need scientific tools asking questions and making observations is always the starting point. Have you tried pigmenting your resins? The 3D Printing Nerd did a video with Level52 Studios where they recommended pigmenting your resin to get better prints.
Can you review ForgeHero minis?
how do you dispose of your alcohol?
How long do you post cure the water resin?
5 minutes in UV lights, or 3 hours in the sun :)
Is it possible to print minis with the other type of 3d printer? The ones that use filament not resin.
Depends. But I highly recommend not using a filament fdm printer for minis. Just from personal headaches...I mean experience
Yes, it is. However, you have to be more selective of what you print and accept that some things are just going got turn out like crap. For instance, I used my FMD/FFF printer to print a custom Dragonborn mini and the tail turned out thin and not very good looking on the bottom side. I also printed off a Sergal Samurai from Thingiverse and almost each and every single time the legs and sword break off.
It isn't as easy. I have yet to get a mini that looks nice but there is someone on here ...3d dm or something I don't remember. They have had better success and have tested things a lot more with filament printing minis. I do have to say that the scatter terrain I've made looks awesome.
It is possible, just takes a lot longer time to print and really knowing how to fine tune your print settings to get a really smooth and detailed print.
You TOTALLY can. But the detail difference is enormous! I prefer FDM (the filament printers) for large prints like terrain, and resin for minis and dice. :)
yeah I swapped to water washable for my mass production bases I print.
Huge mistake, it's a massive chore to dry them so you can cure them, they take forever to cure.
Normal resin hands down wins, Toss in Denatured alcohol, go to secondary cleaner one, take out, dry in minutes, and done.
Fair enough, I see the benefits for both, but if you are doing a large amount of them, alcohol versions probably would out-do the water washable :)
Great video (except when you break the figurines 😥 )
Totaly answer my question concernong water washable resins
Thanks !
what kind of 3d printer is that
Hello everyone, does anyone know a good way to get bulk minis for a decent price that don't look like melted wax.
Often the best way is to find people selling them online getting rid of old collections. But you can also get Prepainted ones from DnD directly :)
I also use water specifically because I don't want to always have a jug of iso around
re dice - instead of sanding try using dremmel with a buffing disk.
3:40 yo, I have the same Tupperware, this is crazy bro