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Who's the sadistic wanker who wrote this story? What is wrong with them? Why would anyone enjoy reading this.......? This is why we have loons & psychos with distorted realities in our world.
When the emperor and the oter mechanicus guy tried to take the nails from Angrom and see it cannot be removed, he should be killed in the table. The emperor and his infinite stupidity. The more i read about the emperor the more i see hes a stupid kid trying to flee his destiny while all he does its just walk the path like a retard, becouse he refuse to introspect and change his way, he refuse to see the VAST AMMOUNT of failures, like Angrom.
Yeahh nahh I'm good. I just wanted to check out the prices of some items and it made me do the quiz thing just for it to ask for a picture, it was optional though but pretty weird to ask. Got to the end and it wanted my email and phone number! Really! Wow. No thanks!
Just a little correction: The time limit Angron gave to the World Eater Astartes wasn't 24 hour. It's actually 31 hours, which is 1 day on his hometown: Nuceria.
I haven't read angrons primarch book, but in the Horus heresy he reveals that he didn't actually feel any sense of pride when his sons took the nails. In his eyes it was the last nail in the coffin that proved to him his sons were worthless. That they would willingly enslave themselves to the nails in some sense of misplaced empathy actually made angron hate his sons more. Could be a case of writeritis, too many cooks and all that, but I never understood why anyone honestly thought Angron would feel closer to his sons after they shamed themselves by becoming the very slaves he wished he himself wasn't.
The whole character requires a level of suspension of disbelief I just can't achieve. Like... Am I supposed to believe that the smartest entity to ever exist lets this kind of insane imbecile govern a significant portion of his military?
I'm sure Balisarius could easily also do so, or even if he were there, remove the nails from Angron ~ though likely with forbidden tech that not even the Emperor would utilize let alone allow. In earnest Angron should've been put down
@@RandomPerson-tz7wk Given that Angron's absolute barbarism got him elevated to daemon prince? Yeah, probably. I just hope that one day someone gets to kill Angron for good.
This video was ment to be part of a longer world eaters deep dive some where down the line in my scheduale. The segment was running really long and I felt Mago and the world eater's who rebelled against angron deserved to have their own video.
Dude , can u make video about pree-Sanginus era blood angels/ IX Legion / Revenant legion ? I find it quite amusing that ironic effect what Sangy and Angryron have done to their legions.
I don't know how you do it, I had been thinking about the emperor, and suddenly you drop the emperors true form video, then I was wondering about angron and the world eaters and you drop this, it's like you're reading my mind
Angron is a very tragic character to say the least. He would have been the rather tanky support of the primarchs before the butchers nails, but this really shows how the scattering of the primarchs by chaos could end. Angron is often considered a badly written villain, but i think he, well, his plot point, is just misunderstood. He was stripped of most of his former primarch abilities trough cruel torture by a cybernetic implant,which led to his fall to chaos trough despair, suffering and most importantly, his constant hatred and anger. Also his character is a little too drawn out; he reminds me of an empty husk of what could have been, especially after his transformation to a demon prince, but he doesnt come to an end. He perhaps wont ever get his salvation from the pain, but will never reach the peak of glory he potentially had.
@@PervyAutomaton i mean thats just how archen land sees him who is expecting an immaculately dispassionate aspect of the machine god and we've seen over and over how the emperor molds and reshapes himself to cater to his audience I've never understood why given the emperors mutable nature people choose to randomly decide this is the truth of his feelings towards the primarchs i mean there are 20 other scenes where we see the emperor express affection or pride or satisfaction with the primarchs and call them sons but no this one scene with archen land is where he really spills the beans lmao gimme a break
@@PervyAutomaton There's actually *a lot* of debate as to whether or not this is true. Every single person sees him differently & perceives his words differently, all depending on whatever is best guaranteed to make them comply with his will. If he truly just saw them as numbers, that would heavily contradict what was stated to happen during his final battle with Horus.
This was the saddest of warhammer 40K stories. My heart is literally wheezing in pain knowing Magos rebellion failed. The only reprieve I’m getting from this is that at the very least, Mago and the rebels that died with him died freemen, like Angrons gladiator brothers and sisters did in his past. At the very least they died sane men rather than live madmen.
That's the most tragic part if it. The only sons of his entire legion that died free like he wanted to on nuceria were the ones he slaughtered himself because they wouldn't be a slave to the nails, the atrocity that sealed his own fate.
Both the Nucerians and the Loyalists died feeling nothing but betrayal by their leader. That is part of the sad cruelty; Angron felt he abandoned his first legion, yet in his anger and malcontent, he wound up abandoning his second legion. as was stated... Tragic.
@@dist0rted320 then as far as I’m concerned, Angron died long ago when he got the nails put into him. All we can hope now is this raging daemon husk of what he was gets put down. And I mean, whoever can pull that off? Only the god emperor knows, Angron is a monster unlike anything the imperium has seen. Since the days of the unification wars and the Horus heresy. And I think he’s a bigger threat than he’s given credit for.
It’s honestly really interesting how much in common Mago had to Angron back on Nuceria. Poor guy deserved to be his closest confidante, but was slaughtered and forgotten instead
The true tragedy is that while the legion inherited their fathers empathy, their father had been denied a fundamental part of his own existence as one of the 20 abstractions known as warp gods taken by the emperor in order to get his crusade done. So in their empathy, what else do they do but try to comfort him? It fails and he stays a rage machine, psykers of the legion try to save him from lorgar? He kills them. Angron was not just denied his own gift, he was denied himself the day the nails were implanted.
@@Guille2033 the 2 riders of sanguinius that went to the sanguinor and mephiston respectively, the horus clone dying because the clone lack the originals "power of his soul" (massive fucking hint) and clonegrim being a separate entity from evil fulgrim because his warp god soul got kicked and he became a puppet, so when bile made a clone body the abstraction went "les gooooo" and called dibs which explains why THAT test worked while the horus one failed.
@@goawayihavecommentstomake1488 no he couldn't: the nails were designed for normal men, angron is a fucking primarch and so the nails were forced into him and so taking them out would fucking kill him. Tho admittedly big E could've killed him, made a clone body to store the warp god and just have that new body have all the traits of the OG but already aged up and ready to go.
@@guywholikesmemes4993 I don't know if Big E could've successfully cloned Angy, but if he cared about the legion, he could've lobotomized Big Angry until he was nothing but a drooling vegetable to be used for harvesting fresh gene seed and put those he could trust from the War Hounds in charge.
Eldar troups attacked Angron (as a toddler) upon his arrival on Nuceria (probably due to some prophecy, those stupid meddling Eldars). Angron actually fought them off (primarchs are that powerful) but suffered severe injuries which in turn allowed the high-riders to enslave him (it would probably have been impossible otherwise). Also, Angron was an empath and was most likely created to provide support (emotional and perhaps also medical) to the other primarchs. He was however slowly stripped of his empathic abilities by the implantation of the butcher's nails which had been done against his will, after he had been forcefully sedated. Truly a tragic fate.
@@Archon3960 How many Craftworlds has angron attacked? The eldar could give a toss about what happens to humanity, and judging by his record I would wager they were right in their estimate of following through with what they did. The outcome might still be shit but who's to say that they didn't succeed in averting one that was even more shit?
it's sad but impressive how him and sanguines traded places, one was creatd to be a monster and became the only true good primarch and the other the inverse
GUillmon would agree that sanguinius is the kindest, but yah vulkan i would say has a good aligment too Anyway what i mean is the one was built to represent empath became the mosnter, and the one that was built to be the emepror's peosnal mosnter became one of thekindest and the most likable of the priamrchs, is a interesting charcter arch and a sad parallel in agron case, but really make me rpect sanguinius more@@Archon3960
Angron is one of the most tragic Primarch's. Think of what him and his legion could've achieved if Angron hadn't had the Butchers Nails forcefully implanted or had even found a way to have them removed. That's what adds to his character and I'm glad he's returning to the setting!
@@synergy8879 They were to a degree. They were still brutal and annhilated the enemy they faced but then they insisted to have The Butchers Nails implanted to match their Primarch and they pretty quickly became what we know them as now
I actually think it's part of the emperor taking the path of least damage (in a way). I think, with Angron's personality influenced by his experience in Nuceria, Angron would have hated him even without the nails. Remember, Angron is an empath and a slave warrior that actively tried to fight his oppressors, I think the emperor dropping the ball on Angron after spending a little bit of time researching in trying to get rid of the nails was a way of him gutting the one primarch he was sure would rebel against him almost immediately, and an Angron with his tactical bearings might be more dangerous than murder hobo Angron to the emperor. Think about it, the Emperor and the empire itself were horribly oppressive, it just comes with the territory of empire. An empathic Angron would feel for everyone, not just his immediate warriors, yes he did eventually rebel against the emperor, but I think a more forward-thinking Angron would've set up a revolution much faster, and the emperor - wanting to at least get some usage out of him - kept him like that so he could at least serve a little while longer.
Something that fascinates me about the nails - we see how they appear on the outside, but not how they appear inside - how they would look installed inside the brain or for angron, his brain and spinal cord.
I've always said I've had a hard time believing that Angron would die if they tried to remove his Butchers Nails. He is a Primarch. Primarchs are, in a way, slightly better than a Custodes, and Custodes can have most of their brains blasted off and still be perfectly functional. GW probably just says they can't remove it cuz, typical of GW, they hate any form of progress in their story.
Or the Emperor didn't actually want the nails removed. I've read a theory that I agree with that some of the legions were essentially disposable once the Great Crusade ended. Legions like the World Eaters, or Death Guard, who had no other purpose than wholesale slaughter and whatnot. They'd likely have been purged like the Thunder Warriors were when their usefulness ended. Whereas like the Iron Hands or Ultramarines could be used as builders, and peacekeepers, or the Alpha Legion as spies against dissent and treason. So the Emperor wouldn't necessarily care about the long-term consequences of using the nails, only their benefit in making the World Eaters better at what they were designed to do before they were inevitably "retired" from his service.
@@sempersteel2799 That's interesting, and it seriously feel like that in the Emperor's behaviour, like he's there to welcome and save most of the Primarchs, but for Angron he just use a teleporter? He clearly don't care for the World Eaters and their Primarch ^^'
In one of the Horus Heresy books, the Emperor summons Arkhan Land (Tech Priest responsible for finding the Land Raider STC) to a medical chamber, there Angron is lying unconscious on a slab. The Emperor asks for a second opinion on the nails, and the two men reach the consensus that they cannot be removed without killing Angron due to how deeply embedded in his brain they are. The butchers nails in Angron are forbidden archaeotech from the dark age of technology that gradually expand and dig deeper and deeper into Angron's brain over time. The would in all likelihood kill him eventually anyway. The Emperor was a by nature a cold and calculating man, seeing that there was nothing that could be done to cure Angron, he probably decided that the best use of him would be to have him lead on the most savage battlefields available until he died, thus getting the most return on his investment (remember in terms of investment the Primarchs are the most expensive things the Emperor has ever produced, he wants to get at least *some* use out of Angron, even if this is just by pointing him at some enemies as a blunt instrument.) People ask why he didnt save his slave friends, the Emperor has a degree of prescience and can predict the future to a degree, he likely simply foresaw that helping the slaves would have little long-term effect on his son, he would eventually go mad/be killed due to the nails regardless and Nunceria was heavily defended, if he started a war it would be very costly and time consuming, all to simply earn the goodwill of a broken tool. A the end of the day Big E probably just did a quick cost-benefit analysis and made the pragmatic choice, just like when he didnt remove his nails, his alternatives would be to either kill him or throw him in a padded cell until he died, both a huge waste of a Primarch. With the benefit of hindsight, the best thing to do would have been to not bother rescuing him at all, however the Emperor hadnt done a thorough analysis of the nails at that point, so he probably thought they could be undone, and he was loathe to toss away one of his greatest works.
Guys I'm new to Warhammer 40k and I gotta say I've never been so fascinated never been so hyped to learn more about this Warhammer universe, it's amazing, this is from a noobs experience into Warhammer and I love it!
@@thewildones436 hey man, it's okay! You have so much stuff to dive into because you waited this long! If you ever get the bug where you start wanting to read book, just pick your favorite faction and dive in. If you get the bug where you want to start collecting minis, just grab some. If you actually want to play, build a kill team first and work your way up to an army. You don't have to take on the biggest project of your life to enjoy this hobby. Lots of people do that, get overestimated, and leave. You see the same thing in like DND when new players want to do it and then screw themselves getting overwhelmed with something that's supposed to be fun. So hey, take it easy, and enjoy yourself.
Angron's soul died on nuceria. If not with the nails then with being forced upon him, then with watching from space as his "true" kin died. All we see afterwords is a shell of a primarch, now a slave to the will of gods and his own hate. Truly tragic. He's also the opposite of the other angel in red. Instead of bringing up his legion, he made them worse.
I just feel so much worse for curze, he lamented that his legion was damned before they were even made into his legion, angron just seems like he wanted everyone to hurt like him, period. He just wanted them to fail to hurt them, it's sad certainly, but much harder for me to feel bad for.
In his own fucked up way he was probably trying to let them understand him he might have even been trying to connect to them Or inflict so much horror on them that the Emperor would remove his legion from him Even with everything he went through he was a deeply damaged and lonely person who had nothing but rage pain and regret and because that is all he knew it was all he could share with his sons
Betrayer is my favourite HH book (which says a lot given I’m a Thousand Sons fan boy at heart) and it goes over how Angron wants to hate his Legion but he can’t find any reason to. That he sends them into unwinnable situation in order to see them fail so that his rage and hatred of them can be justified but in nearly every situation, they were successful. So when his Legion actually fails, he feels vindicated in his rage. Hating them because they were not his fellow slaves, going on to add that he is well aware his fellow slaves would never be able to do what his legion is able to, but that they would’ve tried and failed with honour and glory. Angron is a really really complex character which is hilariously ironic given he ends up as a very simple mindless berserker in the end. He wants to die more than anything, and he wants to hate his Legion because of his hatred towards the emperor, and that they feel like they can so easily replace them. In the short Story After Desha, Angron nearly kills Khārn, explaining to him that his Legion thinks they can just replace his brothers and sisters like they were nothing. Further explaining that the more they try to earn his approval, and try to succeed, the more it drives him insane with anger.
Hope you don't take the Scottish land scam sponsorship anymore.. I almost got it right before it was revealed that you can't own land in Scotland like that. It's an actual scam.
"The Lion kept Luther. Humans, brothers and foster fathers - saved and raised into Legion ranks. But not me. Not Angron, no. Did the Emperor teleport his gold-wrapped Custodians down to help me and my army? No. Did he free the War Hounds and order them to battle, fight alongside me? No. Did he save my brothers and sisters the way he spared and honoured the Lion's closest kin? The way he honoured Kor Phaeron? No, no and no. No mercy for Angron. Angron the Oathbreaker! Angron the Betrayer!" My man's just needed a hug from his dad. I get it.
I am LOVING these long form lore videos, I’m learning so many cool things. Your vids make my long commute to work actually enjoyable. I will hold off on watching/listening to your new long form vids specifically for my work commute. I thank you for what you’re doing here, truly.
Wes, Im not going to say stop uploading so many vids so quickly, bc that would be heresy. But, just, take care of urself. Hearing you gush over 40k always makes my day. Emperor bless, brother.
angron is a tragic tale that i think all comes down to 2 acts from the emperor: 1. rather then deploying ANY amount of his MASIVE armies to save angron and his men (which they could have easily done, as if they can teleport angron from the planet, they can also teleport TO the planet!) and earn the primarchs loyalty that way, he chose to force his choice upon his son who up until that point didnt even know he existed thereby instead earning his enmity and hatred. 2. not immediately removing the butchers nails from him or putting him in stasis until they could be removed, and instead forced him to take command of a legion who neither wanted nor needed a blood hungry angry man as their leader thereby damning the legion to the same fate as their primarch all in all the emperor made very very poor choices with everything regarding angron and literally any deviation in his choices probably results in a much better outcome. its almost comical how bad the choices he made are, to the point that part of me thinks he did it this way on purpose, if this is all part of his "grand plan" to end chaos and this was really the only way it could have played out then ok, but i doubt that even the emperor could have predicted that far into the future.
Honestly, I think the Emperor thought less of Angron because of his failure to conquer even his home planet. Outside of this being his whole plan from the start, which I highly doubt, there is simply no way to explain the Emperor's actions towards Angron in any way but contempt. Though if he saw Angron as weak, I don't know why he'd give him command of the War Hounds.
@@curtismcpsycho8212 Not really, he united all humans tribes of Baal Secundus, and killed all mutants of the planet before the Emperor came. He was probably a seer too, as he organized a big council of everyone on Baal, just when the Emperor came to took him ^^ And he's one of the rare who get to forge his own legion, the Blood Angels were apparently not created on Terra and then he was placed at the command on them, they were created on Baal Secundus, with the warriors of his tribe that he knew....
On many aspect the thousands of years as the "suprem human being" the emporor has lived made him unable to undderstand human emotion. He was the savior of the human race but not of humanity. And at the opposite with the scattering his sons were all too humans to support it.
@@screamingcactus1753 well..the Emporer has always been an arrogant twit that ultimately thinks raw force is the answer to everything. Need to unite the earth? no problem, create an army of bloodthirsty THunder Warriors. They become inconveniant? Let's get them slaughtered while I bioengineer thier replacements. while we're at it, let's destroy all religion and spirituality and get them to focus on me and my grand plan. and hey, let's scatter my primarchs to the ends of the galaxy to see how they adapt and evolve. no side effects there! What's that, Magnus, you say Horus has been turned? well TFB, you should have knocked first. Hey, while we're at it, let's imprison an ancient space god under mars to inspire my techs! Oops, now I'm on life support, my "sons" are all dead, corrupted, or in stasis, and my rotting corpse is the centerpiece of a new religion as the human race becomes a corrupt warmongering leviathan. Huh. who would have thunk it.
Hey Wes Angron took out his contempt of the Emperor out on his legion. And when you take the nails into account you get a demigod who alleviates his suffering by making others suffer in his stead. But Angron is an interesting character when you look past the blood soaked berserker most see him as. I mean he is that but not he isn't just that.
Oh man, this is going to be a good one. I remember reading a lot of Khran(think I spelled it right) and how he was senseable and also insane at the same time lol? I always found the world eaters and emperor children Noise Marine(Im reading some fabius bile atm) to be super interesting compared to other chaos space marines because of their transformation and total disregard for their humanity.
You know, out of all the traitor primarchs, angron was the most sympathetic. He kind of reminds of the the zombie sauropod from gendy tartakovsky's primal in the episode plague of madness. Sure angron became a monster but at the same time it wasn't necessarily his fault. He honestly is a victim to fate unlike the rest of his fallen traitors.
imo Angron is probably the least sympathetic aside from maybe Horus, because he was literally ALWAYS an awful monster. Hell, i’d argue Curze got a worse lot and even he wasn’t as bad to his sons
It never made sense that angron would be proud of his son's taking the nails. Angron hates himself for so many reasons, hates what the nails have made him. Why would he be proud that his sons are making the same mistake, if anything he'd think less of them
Thank you for providing me my daily dose of lore. I can't read all the books and learn as much as I would like to on the universe. The descriptions and analysis that you do help me to have access to all the knowledge I miss by only reading the wiki pages on the 40kfandom or by watching other videos.
Wes, you are in a ROLL with these video uploads!! keep them coming please! Your hard work on these videos really helps get me though the work day whenever they come out!
Angron is a tragedy of the genre. I don't read that many books (Yet, but I read the first horus heresy, but I watch alot of 40k tubers.). But he is the true essence imo of 'Grimdark'. He could have been a crafter like Fulgrim, an artist with a focus on aesthetic. He could have been a polymath like Perturabo, a man who mastered both math and aesthetic to build great things. (and sometimes not so great things...) He could have been a leader like Roboute, a man who mastered logistics and understanding. He could have even been a Sanguinius for all we knew, an angelic demi-god who brought true enlightenment and progress of a new society. But he was none of those things. He was the worst of words we have made for someone who has no free will, choice and live in terror and pain. Angron was a slave. Past. Present. Future. Also, Ghazghkull. Get dat git. WAGGHHHHH!!!
My head cannon for angron is that the emperor purposefully twists angron due to the empathy I think he would have felt as a normal primarch. I believe angron would have led a true non demonic rebellion against the emperor as one of the possible futures so he chose to twist him instead.
I believe a groningen quashed his own empathetic ability upon being plot armoured away by the emporer and leaving all his friends, allies and loved ones to be butchered in the rebellion he started. That must have been soul destroying for him (especially if he did have super duper emporer level psychic empathy) - it possibly shorted out his ability for good, and it wasn't the nails that robbed him of this gift.
What makes 40k so interesting is that it explores the darkest aspects of humanity. It also affirms my worldview of humans being heavily influenced by their environments, yet still retaining agency. I think it would be interesting to see an alternate timeline where Kharn gets put in control of the World Eaters, and Angron gets put in stasis to act as the World Eaters' legendary Pokemon.
I want to know more about what happened to the planets which had been taken by each legion. The night haunters brutalized a few each planet and got compliance. The imperial fists caused much more damage to get compliance when they went to war. Which planets were better off afterwards? Did the imperial fists leave steadfast planets? Did the night haunters planets turn later on? What planet left the best planets behind overall?
A great video as always! It's really heart breaking to know about the depths to which the War Hounds went to appease their Primearch. It adds to Angron's complexity as a former slave that didn't know love outside of the arena. Keep up the great work, my guy!
I've seen a few people argue that the Emperor of Mankind is the sole reason for Angron's fall, but I think Khorne was always in the background moving things forward. For sure, I think the Emperor was callous and is -part- of why Angron ended up this way, but it makes little sense to me why he'd allowed for the empowerment of another god.
I always felt so sad about Angron and the World Eaters, he never even had the chance to be his true self, the nails doomed him forom the moment he got them, same as his legion.
This story brought an orphan tear to my eye. The world of 40k is truly terrifyingly sad , excluding the number of paper brothers that were lost from the mother-wallet.
It is a sad story of sons who would do anything for their father's love and of a father who no-longer knew anything but hatred, yet still trying to recreate the family he lost. (I just listened Angron: Slave of Nuceria audiobook last week.)
This might be the best World Eaters lore videos out there! It lays out the truly awful circumstances that turned a proud legion into some of the most bloodthirsty maniacs in 40k, which is a big hurdle
The Butchers Nails WERE a crime. An absolutely monstrous and horrific one. It was a tragedy that they were forced onto ANY sentient being, a worse tragedy that they were forced on a Primarch, and the worst tragedy of all that they were forced onto the entirety of the World Eaters. The fact that the (alleged) most empathic of all the Emperor's sons, and a brutal but noble Legion, had this evil put upon them is one of the darkest moments in one of the darkest settings I've ever seen.
I've been into 40k literally since it all began (yes, I feel old right now) and even though I know so much of the grim dark, I always learn new things listening to your uploads. And the passion that comes across in every video. I'm not usually a fan of American accents (sorry) but your voice gets me so engaged in what your saying I think you've become my favourite 40k channel on TH-cam. I love the Ork stuff the best. Tyranids ftw.
I've always wondered if the Emperor were to join Angron's cause on Nuceria and help him overthrow the enslavers if he would have been more receptive to his fate as a Primarch. Could you imagine a sane (as can be), loyal Angron?....good lawdy
The worst part about Angron's storyline is that Emperor indeed had the knowledge to remove Butcher's Nails which Angron basically begged him for it, but Emperor *chose not to* because his Great Crusade and his vision about betrayal mattered more than the wellbeing of his own damn children. Emperor saw them as nothing more than just cannon fodder to be thrown into his war meat-grinder. So yes, I do believe Chaos Primarchs really had brains to betray Emperor instead of blindly going to their own death, his actions brought Horus Heresy upon himself, and that he deserved to be turned into gilded box of expired spam.
What gets me about Angron is how close he must have come to being purged by the Emperor and what that must mean for the lost two. From the very beginning, he hated that the Emperor took him away and resisted the Emperor's plan for him and his legion. The Emperor had to have known immediately that his original purpose for Angron was a lost cause. The Emperor was maybe the most brilliant man ever and he couldn't figure out how to remove the nails, even with consultation with other brilliant scientists and doctors. Angron compounded all of this by using the nails on his own legion and defied the Emperor's order to stop using them. Why did the Emperor let him live as deeply damaged goods at best and a major liability at worst and how much worse must the lost two have been?
Anagron a tragic tale of Big E incompetence and a fate of rage and eventual death he’s like Konrad but actually had a fucked fate rather then to be evil because he didn’t want to change the future Mago deserved better if only Anagron loved his sons then his fate would’ve been honorable and respected
The relationship between Angron and his sons remind me of a twisted hyper-agro perversion of the wicked stepmother trope. To be honest, this form of decimation is actually somewhat light compared to the real original Roman decimation when the tenth person was killed by the other nine by being beaten to death.
Another example of the emperors failing, either not realizing or not caring that one of his primarchs was flawed to the core and ripe for chaos if they ever came knocking.
I honestly wonder if things woulda turned out the same way if the nails had been removed from Angron somehow. He couldn't feel loss or grief while knowing he should feel it, so it turned to anger and bitterness towards the Emperor and the Imperium. I have to wonder if even now, his very nature would change if the nails were removed. Obviously this is a thought experiment and would never happen, and if it did happen GW would probably write it poorly so, completely hypothetical. Thanks for the lore dive, it was interesting Wes, really got me thinking.
Just ran out so I want to express; I love these long form videos. I listen to them at work. The longer they are the better for me personally. I thought the channel was much older and had more content, but I ran out in about 2 days lol. I heard in the neuron video it was the first long one you'd done and all I thought was "uh oh" big fan of these videos.
If they ever made high budget movies with a great director writters actors and all the other proffesions needed to make a oscar worthy movie about each of the legions, pretty much what they did with.the marvel and dc movies I think this one would be the most exciting watch imo. Great video, my guy! Your ability to story tell is compelling
Warhammer is truly a Universe of extremes. On the one side: The Butcher's Nails & The Fall Of The World Eaters, on the other "how to keep your skin all nice and pretty" 😁 I love your channel, been watching you for at least 10 months. Great content
In my mind The War Hounds uncorrupted would be much akin to a cross between the Space Wolves, the White Scars and the Salamanders. Harsh, but Honorable and Empathetic to the general people of the Imperium. I'll bet he, Vulcan and Sanguinius would have gotten along very well in this idealised vision of the 12th.
Wow, that was intense! Going to have to read Angron now! Beautifully presented and very engaging. Thanks for another great video on 40K! The Emperor Protects.
Thanks for these amazing deep dives! You're single-handedly getting me into Warhammer lore! And helping inspire me to continue with my own creative pursuits. You have a real gift for making these medium/long-form videos digestible, informative, and intriguing! Basically, you're awesome! :P
I love two facts about Angron: 1) he's tiny, he's the second shortest Primarch next to Lorgar/Alpharius 2) he's not a natural fighter nor is he particularly skilled. He wasn't designed as a warrior and it was his berserking nature that made him dangerous. Sanguinius was Khorne's first choice for a reason
When the Emperor is operating on angron to try to figure them out in the master mankind, he says that the nails aren't just controlling his brain, but entire chunks of his brain had been removed and the nails had replaced them and kind of spider webbed throughout. So removing them would also be like removing 40% of his brain. The nails are the only thing keeping them alive.
This is extremely sad I know sooner or later the final battle against chaos will happen but I just hope and pray that angron can find some measure of peace before the end ik he’s a deamon primarch now but I still have hope
Wishing for Magos to still be alive and joined the loyalist. But then I remember Angry Marine exists. So yeah... time to fetch some power chairs and wrenchs to hunt some Daemon Primarch.
I love these videos the 40k lore is so deep and well thought out besides the plot holes in the lore, I really want to see a deep dove on the old ones or whatever the orks were before they devolved into what they are today I can't remember the name of them I am 100% hooked on this shit
Hey, I’ve been watching you since TikTok, I love your videos and the lore is always great, when my adhd isn’t going haywire I watch you, when it’s going haywire then I watch majorkill lol, question tho… I was wondering if you could continue to segment your videos, the luxury of being able to see the chapters of your videos was really nice
Video 4 of asking you if you could do a deep dive into Ork society? How can they breed specific types of squigs, how are Ork strongholds constructed both from the outside and inside, what forms of entertainment do the Orks engage in outside of combat, what kind of work do slaves and gretchin have to do e.t.c?
I was wondering, what was the battle dinamic between the chaos demons and chaos marines. Did they butcher each other during the null of battle or did they have a good unit cohesion?
Depends on the day or whatever passes for time in the eye of terror. Some warbands fight with ally Daemons others want nothing more than to spill never born blood
Great video Wes!! Love these videos.! Also unpopular opinion but angron is one of my favorite primarchs I find him the one of the most sympathetic and interesting of the traitors. Probably next to curz
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Im mkaing a space marine costume, what chapter should I make it?
Who's the sadistic wanker who wrote this story?
What is wrong with them?
Why would anyone enjoy reading this.......?
This is why we have loons & psychos with distorted realities in our world.
When the emperor and the oter mechanicus guy tried to take the nails from Angrom and see it cannot be removed, he should be killed in the table.
The emperor and his infinite stupidity.
The more i read about the emperor the more i see hes a stupid kid trying to flee his destiny while all he does its just walk the path like a retard, becouse he refuse to introspect and change his way, he refuse to see the VAST AMMOUNT of failures, like Angrom.
Yeahh nahh I'm good. I just wanted to check out the prices of some items and it made me do the quiz thing just for it to ask for a picture, it was optional though but pretty weird to ask. Got to the end and it wanted my email and phone number! Really! Wow. No thanks!
Just a little correction: The time limit Angron gave to the World Eater Astartes wasn't 24 hour. It's actually 31 hours, which is 1 day on his hometown: Nuceria.
Home planet*
Well actually
@@-AxisA- oh yeah my bad :))
I caught that too. Wes is a good lore master but he sometimes gets basic details wrong
@@Tarumarugan that's mainly because he's reading the books as he posts his videos and he often posts shorts correcting himself.
I haven't read angrons primarch book, but in the Horus heresy he reveals that he didn't actually feel any sense of pride when his sons took the nails. In his eyes it was the last nail in the coffin that proved to him his sons were worthless. That they would willingly enslave themselves to the nails in some sense of misplaced empathy actually made angron hate his sons more. Could be a case of writeritis, too many cooks and all that, but I never understood why anyone honestly thought Angron would feel closer to his sons after they shamed themselves by becoming the very slaves he wished he himself wasn't.
The whole character requires a level of suspension of disbelief I just can't achieve.
Like... Am I supposed to believe that the smartest entity to ever exist lets this kind of insane imbecile govern a significant portion of his military?
How could he possibly feel any pride with the nails still in his mind tho? Couldn’t that be the reasoning for this?
@Level100Togepi could you clarify your statement? There are two ways I could respond, but I'd like to get it right.
Yh I would of rebelled tbh
@@BlazenRocker93I think he meant he wanted to feel pride but the pain was preventing him
Imagine if Fabious Bile ended up cloning a perfect replica of Angron. One without the scaring of his past.
oh no im sad now. Thoose empath and healing abilities would be cool
I'm sure Balisarius could easily also do so, or even if he were there, remove the nails from Angron ~ though likely with forbidden tech that not even the Emperor would utilize let alone allow. In earnest Angron should've been put down
That clone angron would probably be killed by the original if they ever met.
Misread that as "Fabulous Bile".
That's his name now as far as I'm concerned :)
@@RandomPerson-tz7wk Given that Angron's absolute barbarism got him elevated to daemon prince? Yeah, probably. I just hope that one day someone gets to kill Angron for good.
This video was ment to be part of a longer world eaters deep dive some where down the line in my scheduale. The segment was running really long and I felt Mago and the world eater's who rebelled against angron deserved to have their own video.
someone needed to make the video! and you nailed it ! (pun intended)
THEY DESERVE NO PLACE! THEY WERE WEAK AND THAT IS WHY THEY WERE SLAUGHTERED!
Dude , can u make video about pree-Sanginus era blood angels/ IX Legion / Revenant legion ? I find it quite amusing that ironic effect what Sangy and Angryron have done to their legions.
Hey man, I tried to contact you! Please check your e-mail and Discord!
I don't know how you do it, I had been thinking about the emperor, and suddenly you drop the emperors true form video, then I was wondering about angron and the world eaters and you drop this, it's like you're reading my mind
Angron is a very tragic character to say the least. He would have been the rather tanky support of the primarchs before the butchers nails, but this really shows how the scattering of the primarchs by chaos could end. Angron is often considered a badly written villain, but i think he, well, his plot point, is just misunderstood. He was stripped of most of his former primarch abilities trough cruel torture by a cybernetic implant,which led to his fall to chaos trough despair, suffering and most importantly, his constant hatred and anger. Also his character is a little too drawn out; he reminds me of an empty husk of what could have been, especially after his transformation to a demon prince, but he doesnt come to an end. He perhaps wont ever get his salvation from the pain, but will never reach the peak of glory he potentially had.
@@PeacefullyBeing Why tho? they are just numbers/weapons and not hes sons.
@@PervyAutomaton i mean thats just how archen land sees him who is expecting an immaculately dispassionate aspect of the machine god and we've seen over and over how the emperor molds and reshapes himself to cater to his audience I've never understood why given the emperors mutable nature people choose to randomly decide this is the truth of his feelings towards the primarchs i mean there are 20 other scenes where we see the emperor express affection or pride or satisfaction with the primarchs and call them sons but no this one scene with archen land is where he really spills the beans lmao gimme a break
@@PervyAutomaton There's actually *a lot* of debate as to whether or not this is true. Every single person sees him differently & perceives his words differently, all depending on whatever is best guaranteed to make them comply with his will. If he truly just saw them as numbers, that would heavily contradict what was stated to happen during his final battle with Horus.
world eater is tragic chapter too to get such a tragic primarch
@@keeratijirananutwinyu8339 agreed. It was doomed from the moment angron was discovered again.
This was the saddest of warhammer 40K stories. My heart is literally wheezing in pain knowing Magos rebellion failed. The only reprieve I’m getting from this is that at the very least, Mago and the rebels that died with him died freemen, like Angrons gladiator brothers and sisters did in his past. At the very least they died sane men rather than live madmen.
That's the most tragic part if it. The only sons of his entire legion that died free like he wanted to on nuceria were the ones he slaughtered himself because they wouldn't be a slave to the nails, the atrocity that sealed his own fate.
@@ffwast you think there’s any hope of the emperor curing Angron?
Both the Nucerians and the Loyalists died feeling nothing but betrayal by their leader. That is part of the sad cruelty; Angron felt he abandoned his first legion, yet in his anger and malcontent, he wound up abandoning his second legion. as was stated... Tragic.
@@juyver11 Considering that Angron is a daemon prince and now has a model coming to the tabletop, I think we've long past that point :(
@@dist0rted320 then as far as I’m concerned, Angron died long ago when he got the nails put into him. All we can hope now is this raging daemon husk of what he was gets put down. And I mean, whoever can pull that off? Only the god emperor knows, Angron is a monster unlike anything the imperium has seen. Since the days of the unification wars and the Horus heresy. And I think he’s a bigger threat than he’s given credit for.
It’s honestly really interesting how much in common Mago had to Angron back on Nuceria. Poor guy deserved to be his closest confidante, but was slaughtered and forgotten instead
The true tragedy is that while the legion inherited their fathers empathy, their father had been denied a fundamental part of his own existence as one of the 20 abstractions known as warp gods taken by the emperor in order to get his crusade done. So in their empathy, what else do they do but try to comfort him? It fails and he stays a rage machine, psykers of the legion try to save him from lorgar? He kills them. Angron was not just denied his own gift, he was denied himself the day the nails were implanted.
He could have taken them out or resigned his command. Angron was a weak willed pu$$y.
Do you have any source for these 20 warp gods? It hasn't been confirmed as official cannon yet as far as I know
@@Guille2033 the 2 riders of sanguinius that went to the sanguinor and mephiston respectively, the horus clone dying because the clone lack the originals "power of his soul" (massive fucking hint) and clonegrim being a separate entity from evil fulgrim because his warp god soul got kicked and he became a puppet, so when bile made a clone body the abstraction went "les gooooo" and called dibs which explains why THAT test worked while the horus one failed.
@@goawayihavecommentstomake1488 no he couldn't: the nails were designed for normal men, angron is a fucking primarch and so the nails were forced into him and so taking them out would fucking kill him.
Tho admittedly big E could've killed him, made a clone body to store the warp god and just have that new body have all the traits of the OG but already aged up and ready to go.
@@guywholikesmemes4993 I don't know if Big E could've successfully cloned Angy, but if he cared about the legion, he could've lobotomized Big Angry until he was nothing but a drooling vegetable to be used for harvesting fresh gene seed and put those he could trust from the War Hounds in charge.
Eldar troups attacked Angron (as a toddler) upon his arrival on Nuceria (probably due to some prophecy, those stupid meddling Eldars). Angron actually fought them off (primarchs are that powerful) but suffered severe injuries which in turn allowed the high-riders to enslave him (it would probably have been impossible otherwise). Also, Angron was an empath and was most likely created to provide support (emotional and perhaps also medical) to the other primarchs. He was however slowly stripped of his empathic abilities by the implantation of the butcher's nails which had been done against his will, after he had been forcefully sedated. Truly a tragic fate.
It is crazy how many whoopsies the Eldar did over the millenias.
And no, one random Space Marine Chapter wiping out a Craftworld doesn't count. ;/
@@Archon3960 How many Craftworlds has angron attacked? The eldar could give a toss about what happens to humanity, and judging by his record I would wager they were right in their estimate of following through with what they did.
The outcome might still be shit but who's to say that they didn't succeed in averting one that was even more shit?
it's sad but impressive how him and sanguines traded places, one was creatd to be a monster and became the only true good primarch and the other the inverse
@@rodrigobueno8652 Err, Guilliman, the Lion and Vulkan would take issue with this. X)
GUillmon would agree that sanguinius is the kindest, but yah vulkan i would say has a good aligment too
Anyway what i mean is the one was built to represent empath became the mosnter, and the one that was built to be the emepror's peosnal mosnter became one of thekindest and the most likable of the priamrchs, is a interesting charcter arch and a sad parallel in agron case, but really make me rpect sanguinius more@@Archon3960
Angron is one of the most tragic Primarch's. Think of what him and his legion could've achieved if Angron hadn't had the Butchers Nails forcefully implanted or had even found a way to have them removed. That's what adds to his character and I'm glad he's returning to the setting!
apparently, pre heresy world eaters were just guys who loved close combat and were more chill then the blood angels and space wolves at that time.
@@synergy8879 They were to a degree. They were still brutal and annhilated the enemy they faced but then they insisted to have The Butchers Nails implanted to match their Primarch and they pretty quickly became what we know them as now
@@PelinalDidNothingWrong alot of them did not want the nails
read the index of roboutian heresy world eaters
I actually think it's part of the emperor taking the path of least damage (in a way). I think, with Angron's personality influenced by his experience in Nuceria, Angron would have hated him even without the nails. Remember, Angron is an empath and a slave warrior that actively tried to fight his oppressors, I think the emperor dropping the ball on Angron after spending a little bit of time researching in trying to get rid of the nails was a way of him gutting the one primarch he was sure would rebel against him almost immediately, and an Angron with his tactical bearings might be more dangerous than murder hobo Angron to the emperor.
Think about it, the Emperor and the empire itself were horribly oppressive, it just comes with the territory of empire. An empathic Angron would feel for everyone, not just his immediate warriors, yes he did eventually rebel against the emperor, but I think a more forward-thinking Angron would've set up a revolution much faster, and the emperor - wanting to at least get some usage out of him - kept him like that so he could at least serve a little while longer.
Something that fascinates me about the nails - we see how they appear on the outside, but not how they appear inside - how they would look installed inside the brain or for angron, his brain and spinal cord.
It shown that the nail look like a dark centipede that replace part of his brain while it legs reach to other part
I've always said I've had a hard time believing that Angron would die if they tried to remove his Butchers Nails. He is a Primarch. Primarchs are, in a way, slightly better than a Custodes, and Custodes can have most of their brains blasted off and still be perfectly functional.
GW probably just says they can't remove it cuz, typical of GW, they hate any form of progress in their story.
Or the Emperor didn't actually want the nails removed. I've read a theory that I agree with that some of the legions were essentially disposable once the Great Crusade ended. Legions like the World Eaters, or Death Guard, who had no other purpose than wholesale slaughter and whatnot. They'd likely have been purged like the Thunder Warriors were when their usefulness ended. Whereas like the Iron Hands or Ultramarines could be used as builders, and peacekeepers, or the Alpha Legion as spies against dissent and treason. So the Emperor wouldn't necessarily care about the long-term consequences of using the nails, only their benefit in making the World Eaters better at what they were designed to do before they were inevitably "retired" from his service.
@@sempersteel2799 That's interesting, and it seriously feel like that in the Emperor's behaviour, like he's there to welcome and save most of the Primarchs, but for Angron he just use a teleporter? He clearly don't care for the World Eaters and their Primarch ^^'
In one of the Horus Heresy books, the Emperor summons Arkhan Land (Tech Priest responsible for finding the Land Raider STC) to a medical chamber, there Angron is lying unconscious on a slab. The Emperor asks for a second opinion on the nails, and the two men reach the consensus that they cannot be removed without killing Angron due to how deeply embedded in his brain they are. The butchers nails in Angron are forbidden archaeotech from the dark age of technology that gradually expand and dig deeper and deeper into Angron's brain over time. The would in all likelihood kill him eventually anyway. The Emperor was a by nature a cold and calculating man, seeing that there was nothing that could be done to cure Angron, he probably decided that the best use of him would be to have him lead on the most savage battlefields available until he died, thus getting the most return on his investment (remember in terms of investment the Primarchs are the most expensive things the Emperor has ever produced, he wants to get at least *some* use out of Angron, even if this is just by pointing him at some enemies as a blunt instrument.) People ask why he didnt save his slave friends, the Emperor has a degree of prescience and can predict the future to a degree, he likely simply foresaw that helping the slaves would have little long-term effect on his son, he would eventually go mad/be killed due to the nails regardless and Nunceria was heavily defended, if he started a war it would be very costly and time consuming, all to simply earn the goodwill of a broken tool. A the end of the day Big E probably just did a quick cost-benefit analysis and made the pragmatic choice, just like when he didnt remove his nails, his alternatives would be to either kill him or throw him in a padded cell until he died, both a huge waste of a Primarch. With the benefit of hindsight, the best thing to do would have been to not bother rescuing him at all, however the Emperor hadnt done a thorough analysis of the nails at that point, so he probably thought they could be undone, and he was loathe to toss away one of his greatest works.
@@krankarvolund7771 the emperor confirmed he planned on killing big A after the crusade
Guys I'm new to Warhammer 40k and I gotta say I've never been so fascinated never been so hyped to learn more about this Warhammer universe, it's amazing, this is from a noobs experience into Warhammer and I love it!
I remember feeling much the same way when I first started getting into the lore. Welcome to the party! Glad to have you with us.
It's always exciting seeing this kind of enthusiasm
@@01What10 thank you mate I'm glad to be here
@@ohmygoditisspider7953 I wish I would have discovered this sooner
@@thewildones436 hey man, it's okay! You have so much stuff to dive into because you waited this long! If you ever get the bug where you start wanting to read book, just pick your favorite faction and dive in. If you get the bug where you want to start collecting minis, just grab some. If you actually want to play, build a kill team first and work your way up to an army.
You don't have to take on the biggest project of your life to enjoy this hobby. Lots of people do that, get overestimated, and leave. You see the same thing in like DND when new players want to do it and then screw themselves getting overwhelmed with something that's supposed to be fun.
So hey, take it easy, and enjoy yourself.
The pain angron was put through emotionally, mentally, physically is just insane.
And to put such a person in charge of a legion of super humans, that's insane too.
@@TonklinFallen which made the whole situation even more insane.
Welcome to the 41st millennium.
@@slinkerdeer yes pure linsanity
Yes the emperor is insane
Angron's soul died on nuceria. If not with the nails then with being forced upon him, then with watching from space as his "true" kin died. All we see afterwords is a shell of a primarch, now a slave to the will of gods and his own hate. Truly tragic.
He's also the opposite of the other angel in red. Instead of bringing up his legion, he made them worse.
You expect a mentally unstable person to lead an army to glory and victory? In your dreams!
@orionthanathos8861 you have terrible reading comprehension
@@orionthanathos8861 you didn't read my comment
Great video. However, one small detail: Angron gave 31 hours (1 nucerian day) to conquer a world not 24 hours
Snap. You're right.
I just feel so much worse for curze, he lamented that his legion was damned before they were even made into his legion, angron just seems like he wanted everyone to hurt like him, period. He just wanted them to fail to hurt them, it's sad certainly, but much harder for me to feel bad for.
In his own fucked up way he was probably trying to let them understand him he might have even been trying to connect to them
Or inflict so much horror on them that the Emperor would remove his legion from him
Even with everything he went through he was a deeply damaged and lonely person who had nothing but rage pain and regret and because that is all he knew it was all he could share with his sons
Betrayer is my favourite HH book (which says a lot given I’m a Thousand Sons fan boy at heart) and it goes over how Angron wants to hate his Legion but he can’t find any reason to. That he sends them into unwinnable situation in order to see them fail so that his rage and hatred of them can be justified but in nearly every situation, they were successful. So when his Legion actually fails, he feels vindicated in his rage. Hating them because they were not his fellow slaves, going on to add that he is well aware his fellow slaves would never be able to do what his legion is able to, but that they would’ve tried and failed with honour and glory. Angron is a really really complex character which is hilariously ironic given he ends up as a very simple mindless berserker in the end. He wants to die more than anything, and he wants to hate his Legion because of his hatred towards the emperor, and that they feel like they can so easily replace them.
In the short Story After Desha, Angron nearly kills Khārn, explaining to him that his Legion thinks they can just replace his brothers and sisters like they were nothing. Further explaining that the more they try to earn his approval, and try to succeed, the more it drives him insane with anger.
Agron could've went to nurgle if you think about it. The sheer despair he felt about leaving the gladiators could've let papa nurgle in right there.
Hope you don't take the Scottish land scam sponsorship anymore.. I almost got it right before it was revealed that you can't own land in Scotland like that. It's an actual scam.
"The Lion kept Luther. Humans, brothers and foster fathers - saved and raised into Legion ranks. But not me. Not Angron, no. Did the Emperor teleport his gold-wrapped Custodians down to help me and my army? No. Did he free the War Hounds and order them to battle, fight alongside me? No. Did he save my brothers and sisters the way he spared and honoured the Lion's closest kin? The way he honoured Kor Phaeron? No, no and no. No mercy for Angron. Angron the Oathbreaker! Angron the Betrayer!"
My man's just needed a hug from his dad. I get it.
I am LOVING these long form lore videos, I’m learning so many cool things. Your vids make my long commute to work actually enjoyable. I will hold off on watching/listening to your new long form vids specifically for my work commute.
I thank you for what you’re doing here, truly.
Wes, Im not going to say stop uploading so many vids so quickly, bc that would be heresy. But, just, take care of urself. Hearing you gush over 40k always makes my day. Emperor bless, brother.
angron is a tragic tale that i think all comes down to 2 acts from the emperor:
1. rather then deploying ANY amount of his MASIVE armies to save angron and his men (which they could have easily done, as if they can teleport angron from the planet, they can also teleport TO the planet!) and earn the primarchs loyalty that way, he chose to force his choice upon his son who up until that point didnt even know he existed thereby instead earning his enmity and hatred.
2. not immediately removing the butchers nails from him or putting him in stasis until they could be removed, and instead forced him to take command of a legion who neither wanted nor needed a blood hungry angry man as their leader thereby damning the legion to the same fate as their primarch
all in all the emperor made very very poor choices with everything regarding angron and literally any deviation in his choices probably results in a much better outcome.
its almost comical how bad the choices he made are, to the point that part of me thinks he did it this way on purpose, if this is all part of his "grand plan" to end chaos and this was really the only way it could have played out then ok, but i doubt that even the emperor could have predicted that far into the future.
Honestly, I think the Emperor thought less of Angron because of his failure to conquer even his home planet. Outside of this being his whole plan from the start, which I highly doubt, there is simply no way to explain the Emperor's actions towards Angron in any way but contempt. Though if he saw Angron as weak, I don't know why he'd give him command of the War Hounds.
@@screamingcactus1753 wasn't sanguinis a lot more "passive" than angron or was he a warmonger that "earned" big Es attention?
@@curtismcpsycho8212 Not really, he united all humans tribes of Baal Secundus, and killed all mutants of the planet before the Emperor came. He was probably a seer too, as he organized a big council of everyone on Baal, just when the Emperor came to took him ^^
And he's one of the rare who get to forge his own legion, the Blood Angels were apparently not created on Terra and then he was placed at the command on them, they were created on Baal Secundus, with the warriors of his tribe that he knew....
On many aspect the thousands of years as the "suprem human being" the emporor has lived made him unable to undderstand human emotion. He was the savior of the human race but not of humanity. And at the opposite with the scattering his sons were all too humans to support it.
@@screamingcactus1753 well..the Emporer has always been an arrogant twit that ultimately thinks raw force is the answer to everything. Need to unite the earth? no problem, create an army of bloodthirsty THunder Warriors. They become inconveniant? Let's get them slaughtered while I bioengineer thier replacements. while we're at it, let's destroy all religion and spirituality and get them to focus on me and my grand plan. and hey, let's scatter my primarchs to the ends of the galaxy to see how they adapt and evolve. no side effects there! What's that, Magnus, you say Horus has been turned? well TFB, you should have knocked first. Hey, while we're at it, let's imprison an ancient space god under mars to inspire my techs! Oops, now I'm on life support, my "sons" are all dead, corrupted, or in stasis, and my rotting corpse is the centerpiece of a new religion as the human race becomes a corrupt warmongering leviathan. Huh. who would have thunk it.
What was the Emperors reaction to Angron implementing butchers nails? Or how other primarchs reacted to the news/seeing Angron's boys in battle?
Hey Wes Angron took out his contempt of the Emperor out on his legion. And when you take the nails into account you get a demigod who alleviates his suffering by making others suffer in his stead. But Angron is an interesting character when you look past the blood soaked berserker most see him as. I mean he is that but not he isn't just that.
Ironically, Angron's special power was how he was able to alleviate the pain of others by taking it instead
@@oldstyle5114 The Red Mile.
Oh man, this is going to be a good one. I remember reading a lot of Khran(think I spelled it right) and how he was senseable and also insane at the same time lol? I always found the world eaters and emperor children Noise Marine(Im reading some fabius bile atm) to be super interesting compared to other chaos space marines because of their transformation and total disregard for their humanity.
It’s Khârn but ok.
@@AngronTheRedAngel. Thank you.
You know, out of all the traitor primarchs, angron was the most sympathetic. He kind of reminds of the the zombie sauropod from gendy tartakovsky's primal in the episode plague of madness. Sure angron became a monster but at the same time it wasn't necessarily his fault. He honestly is a victim to fate unlike the rest of his fallen traitors.
imo Angron is probably the least sympathetic aside from maybe Horus, because he was literally ALWAYS an awful monster. Hell, i’d argue Curze got a worse lot and even he wasn’t as bad to his sons
It never made sense that angron would be proud of his son's taking the nails. Angron hates himself for so many reasons, hates what the nails have made him. Why would he be proud that his sons are making the same mistake, if anything he'd think less of them
angrons primarch story is so so tragic. he is my favorite primarch for that reason. he had so much potential
It's so great to see you're doing well for yourself Wes, i remember when this was just a shorts channel. Onward and upward my dude!
Shorts prepared him for his true calling. May the Emperor protect and guide his research and productions.
Thank you for providing me my daily dose of lore. I can't read all the books and learn as much as I would like to on the universe. The descriptions and analysis that you do help me to have access to all the knowledge I miss by only reading the wiki pages on the 40kfandom or by watching other videos.
Wes, you are in a ROLL with these video uploads!! keep them coming please! Your hard work on these videos really helps get me though the work day whenever they come out!
Angron is a tragedy of the genre. I don't read that many books (Yet, but I read the first horus heresy, but I watch alot of 40k tubers.). But he is the true essence imo of 'Grimdark'.
He could have been a crafter like Fulgrim, an artist with a focus on aesthetic.
He could have been a polymath like Perturabo, a man who mastered both math and aesthetic to build great things. (and sometimes not so great things...)
He could have been a leader like Roboute, a man who mastered logistics and understanding.
He could have even been a Sanguinius for all we knew, an angelic demi-god who brought true enlightenment and progress of a new society.
But he was none of those things. He was the worst of words we have made for someone who has no free will, choice and live in terror and pain.
Angron was a slave. Past. Present. Future.
Also, Ghazghkull. Get dat git. WAGGHHHHH!!!
My head cannon for angron is that the emperor purposefully twists angron due to the empathy I think he would have felt as a normal primarch. I believe angron would have led a true non demonic rebellion against the emperor as one of the possible futures so he chose to twist him instead.
I believe a groningen quashed his own empathetic ability upon being plot armoured away by the emporer and leaving all his friends, allies and loved ones to be butchered in the rebellion he started. That must have been soul destroying for him (especially if he did have super duper emporer level psychic empathy) - it possibly shorted out his ability for good, and it wasn't the nails that robbed him of this gift.
No that’s actually a decent thought as well. Cause it would have definitely destroyed him even at a lesser power
What makes 40k so interesting is that it explores the darkest aspects of humanity. It also affirms my worldview of humans being heavily influenced by their environments, yet still retaining agency. I think it would be interesting to see an alternate timeline where Kharn gets put in control of the World Eaters, and Angron gets put in stasis to act as the World Eaters' legendary Pokemon.
I respect skin advice from a man with skin that looks soo good Khorne would keep it on the skull
😆
Slaanesh approves.
Wow, the edit is getting super clean brother, smooth! I can see you tightening and improving on each video, great work brother!
I want to know more about what happened to the planets which had been taken by each legion.
The night haunters brutalized a few each planet and got compliance.
The imperial fists caused much more damage to get compliance when they went to war.
Which planets were better off afterwards? Did the imperial fists leave steadfast planets? Did the night haunters planets turn later on? What planet left the best planets behind overall?
A great video as always! It's really heart breaking to know about the depths to which the War Hounds went to appease their Primearch.
It adds to Angron's complexity as a former slave that didn't know love outside of the arena.
Keep up the great work, my guy!
I've seen a few people argue that the Emperor of Mankind is the sole reason for Angron's fall, but I think Khorne was always in the background moving things forward. For sure, I think the Emperor was callous and is -part- of why Angron ended up this way, but it makes little sense to me why he'd allowed for the empowerment of another god.
I always felt so sad about Angron and the World Eaters, he never even had the chance to be his true self, the nails doomed him forom the moment he got them, same as his legion.
This story brought an orphan tear to my eye. The world of 40k is truly terrifyingly sad , excluding the number of paper brothers that were lost from the mother-wallet.
It is a sad story of sons who would do anything for their father's love and of a father who no-longer knew anything but hatred, yet still trying to recreate the family he lost. (I just listened Angron: Slave of Nuceria audiobook last week.)
The War Hounds should ask the Emperor: Why did you do this? Why you handed over your legion to an enemy? Why let Angron destroy our future?
This might be the best World Eaters lore videos out there! It lays out the truly awful circumstances that turned a proud legion into some of the most bloodthirsty maniacs in 40k, which is a big hurdle
The Butchers Nails WERE a crime. An absolutely monstrous and horrific one. It was a tragedy that they were forced onto ANY sentient being, a worse tragedy that they were forced on a Primarch, and the worst tragedy of all that they were forced onto the entirety of the World Eaters. The fact that the (alleged) most empathic of all the Emperor's sons, and a brutal but noble Legion, had this evil put upon them is one of the darkest moments in one of the darkest settings I've ever seen.
Other primarchs: I will protect and fight along side my children.
Angron: FuK dEm KiDz
I've been into 40k literally since it all began (yes, I feel old right now) and even though I know so much of the grim dark, I always learn new things listening to your uploads. And the passion that comes across in every video. I'm not usually a fan of American accents (sorry) but your voice gets me so engaged in what your saying I think you've become my favourite 40k channel on TH-cam. I love the Ork stuff the best. Tyranids ftw.
The World Eaters and the Night Lords really do get the short end of the stick when it comes to their Primarchs.
i find it quite funny looking at the fates of the other traitor primarchs and then looking at Perturabo, whose just confused as hell
I've always wondered if the Emperor were to join Angron's cause on Nuceria and help him overthrow the enslavers if he would have been more receptive to his fate as a Primarch. Could you imagine a sane (as can be), loyal Angron?....good lawdy
The worst part about Angron's storyline is that Emperor indeed had the knowledge to remove Butcher's Nails which Angron basically begged him for it, but Emperor *chose not to* because his Great Crusade and his vision about betrayal mattered more than the wellbeing of his own damn children. Emperor saw them as nothing more than just cannon fodder to be thrown into his war meat-grinder. So yes, I do believe Chaos Primarchs really had brains to betray Emperor instead of blindly going to their own death, his actions brought Horus Heresy upon himself, and that he deserved to be turned into gilded box of expired spam.
he could removed it, but angron will die, thus he rather have a broken son than dead son
Where do you get this idea from? I mean the part where the Emperor could have removed the nails without killing him?
@@OljeiKhan you have it all in Warhammer 40k Wiki and Lexicanum. They are my main source of info about this universe's lore.
@@OljeiKhan Master of Mankind (Novel), Chapters 7, 13
What gets me about Angron is how close he must have come to being purged by the Emperor and what that must mean for the lost two. From the very beginning, he hated that the Emperor took him away and resisted the Emperor's plan for him and his legion. The Emperor had to have known immediately that his original purpose for Angron was a lost cause. The Emperor was maybe the most brilliant man ever and he couldn't figure out how to remove the nails, even with consultation with other brilliant scientists and doctors. Angron compounded all of this by using the nails on his own legion and defied the Emperor's order to stop using them. Why did the Emperor let him live as deeply damaged goods at best and a major liability at worst and how much worse must the lost two have been?
I wait for new lore videos everyday. I listen to these like podcasts while I’m at work.
Anagron a tragic tale of Big E incompetence and a fate of rage and eventual death he’s like Konrad but actually had a fucked fate rather then to be evil because he didn’t want to change the future Mago deserved better if only Anagron loved his sons then his fate would’ve been honorable and respected
Poor old angry Ron. Also good to see the proper use of decimate 😂
Thanks Wes. These videos are fantastic , and the art is fantastic. Thanks for allowing our enjoyment of the grinderp to continue.
The relationship between Angron and his sons remind me of a twisted hyper-agro perversion of the wicked stepmother trope.
To be honest, this form of decimation is actually somewhat light compared to the real original Roman decimation when the tenth person was killed by the other nine by being beaten to death.
Dude your long-form content is really top notch. Thr short form is great as well, but this stuff is really good. Keep it up.
Another example of the emperors failing, either not realizing or not caring that one of his primarchs was flawed to the core and ripe for chaos if they ever came knocking.
You should do some more videos on the traitor primarcs as they are amazing
30:00
8 days, eh? "Coincidentally," 8 is the sacred number of Khorne.
Getting a notification for a Weshammer upload while watching a Weshammer video is like finding an extra piece in your 10 piece chicken nugget box.
Ian St.Martin is definitely my favourite 40k author. His stories are insanely good
I honestly wonder if things woulda turned out the same way if the nails had been removed from Angron somehow. He couldn't feel loss or grief while knowing he should feel it, so it turned to anger and bitterness towards the Emperor and the Imperium. I have to wonder if even now, his very nature would change if the nails were removed.
Obviously this is a thought experiment and would never happen, and if it did happen GW would probably write it poorly so, completely hypothetical. Thanks for the lore dive, it was interesting Wes, really got me thinking.
Just ran out so I want to express; I love these long form videos. I listen to them at work. The longer they are the better for me personally. I thought the channel was much older and had more content, but I ran out in about 2 days lol. I heard in the neuron video it was the first long one you'd done and all I thought was "uh oh" big fan of these videos.
If they ever made high budget movies with a great director writters actors and all the other proffesions needed to make a oscar worthy movie about each of the legions, pretty much what they did with.the marvel and dc movies I think this one would be the most exciting watch imo. Great video, my guy! Your ability to story tell is compelling
And be r-rated...to be true to the grim dark unfortunately...
" I can't hear you over the chainaxe. " - Kharn
It's chilling to think that The Emperor might have foreseen this, and chose to have things develop this way
Warhammer is truly a Universe of extremes. On the one side: The Butcher's Nails & The Fall Of The World Eaters, on the other "how to keep your skin all nice and pretty" 😁
I love your channel, been watching you for at least 10 months. Great content
One correction, Angron gave his legion 31 solar hours, the length of a single Nucerian day, not 24, other than that, good video!
I'm always angry when I have canker sores. I feel you Angron.
I always wonder what his personality would be like if he became a champion of Nurgle.
I'm guessing Grandfather would take the pain away.
@@thehermitman822 that's my point. Without the pain and the rage, who is he ?
@@nol6409 Hmmm. Peace might be too boring for him after millenniums of rage.
Which of the other Traitor Primarchs do you think could've been a Daemon Prince of Khorne if Angron had fallen to Nurgle instead?
@chasetosh3767 Horus is really the only other one who's personality fits. Maybe Porturabo.
great work!!!
we have primarch angron and conrad do literal HR disasters and they say morty was in the wrong 😆 goddamn
In my mind The War Hounds uncorrupted would be much akin to a cross between the Space Wolves, the White Scars and the Salamanders. Harsh, but Honorable and Empathetic to the general people of the Imperium. I'll bet he, Vulcan and Sanguinius would have gotten along very well in this idealised vision of the 12th.
The World Eaters were one of the legions that would've been so much better off without their primarch
Wow, that was intense! Going to have to read Angron now! Beautifully presented and very engaging. Thanks for another great video on 40K! The Emperor Protects.
Thanks for these amazing deep dives! You're single-handedly getting me into Warhammer lore! And helping inspire me to continue with my own creative pursuits. You have a real gift for making these medium/long-form videos digestible, informative, and intriguing! Basically, you're awesome! :P
I love two facts about Angron:
1) he's tiny, he's the second shortest Primarch next to Lorgar/Alpharius
2) he's not a natural fighter nor is he particularly skilled. He wasn't designed as a warrior and it was his berserking nature that made him dangerous. Sanguinius was Khorne's first choice for a reason
I'm always amazed how they're unable to take the nails off with their technology
When the Emperor is operating on angron to try to figure them out in the master mankind, he says that the nails aren't just controlling his brain, but entire chunks of his brain had been removed and the nails had replaced them and kind of spider webbed throughout. So removing them would also be like removing 40% of his brain. The nails are the only thing keeping them alive.
@@weshammer I see, that makes sense then, thanks Wes
@@weshammer Reminds me of Marvel's techno organic virus.
Emperor of mankind winning the father of the year award one more time.
Tbh I underestimated this channel until I watched this video. Good art, good explanations
Aw man awesome episode. I sat there and listened like an old timey radio drama.
A tragic end for honorable people who try to meet the needs of a psychotic Gladiator
As far as I can see... one of your best videos so far...your output is awesome!! Thanks for that!!
love the detail with the 8 days to transform the legion into their new monstrous self, 8 being khorne's sacred number.
This is extremely sad I know sooner or later the final battle against chaos will happen but I just hope and pray that angron can find some measure of peace before the end ik he’s a deamon primarch now but I still have hope
Wishing for Magos to still be alive and joined the loyalist. But then I remember Angry Marine exists. So yeah... time to fetch some power chairs and wrenchs to hunt some Daemon Primarch.
I love these videos the 40k lore is so deep and well thought out besides the plot holes in the lore, I really want to see a deep dove on the old ones or whatever the orks were before they devolved into what they are today I can't remember the name of them I am 100% hooked on this shit
God I love the contrast between the Butcher's Nails and modern skincare.
Hey, I’ve been watching you since TikTok, I love your videos and the lore is always great, when my adhd isn’t going haywire I watch you, when it’s going haywire then I watch majorkill lol, question tho… I was wondering if you could continue to segment your videos, the luxury of being able to see the chapters of your videos was really nice
I can definitely do that for ya :)
Video 4 of asking you if you could do a deep dive into Ork society?
How can they breed specific types of squigs, how are Ork strongholds constructed both from the outside and inside, what forms of entertainment do the Orks engage in outside of combat, what kind of work do slaves and gretchin have to do e.t.c?
I was wondering, what was the battle dinamic between the chaos demons and chaos marines. Did they butcher each other during the null of battle or did they have a good unit cohesion?
Depends on the day or whatever passes for time in the eye of terror. Some warbands fight with ally Daemons others want nothing more than to spill never born blood
I've been really excited for you to start on this.
Great video Wes!! Love these videos.! Also unpopular opinion but angron is one of my favorite primarchs I find him the one of the most sympathetic and interesting of the traitors. Probably next to curz
Angrons whole back story has to be the saddest of all the primarchs. His humanity died the minute the slavers imprinted the butchers nails
Angron lives in a fortress full of infinite drywall for him to punch holes in.
well, he was trapped in a maze that he would ran holes into the walls for a while.
The Emperor really fucked up on this one. No wonder shit like the Horus heresy happened.
I can't believe I just read the title as "Eating Civil War Chili was TRAGIC"