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Head to geolog.ie/HAMMER70 or scan the QR code on the screen and use code HAMMER70 and they will give you an exclusive 70% off of their award-winning skincare trial set. On top of that, they are giving you an exclusive bonus offer up to 50% off on additional skin, hair, and body products of your choice when you add it to your trial.
Code straight up doesnt seem to work. But maybe i accidentally got on some trial program.
btw man you should stop putting your face like that in every videos thumbnail . Like come on. i love the videos every single one of em. but this is cringe as fuck
I think the tau increased so quickly due to warp time. And that the emperor is protecting them in some way so that they can try to calm the warp to before the war in heaven levels of neutrality.
My personal fan theory is that the one being summoned is not actually amlie, but the deamon king instead. Even the entities can become like another patron. in fact, a korn daemon was manipulated by ztintch to do a cowardly sucker punch and got the pwoer shacken out of him and tossed through the universe and flew for some time, probably khonrs sacred number and hit a planet so hard it exploded.
So if the daemon king fomred a relationship with malice, despite bieng a zintch, over time, his nature could become a loot less like zintch or remvoed entirely.
Since a damon king is still technically just a damon, if he is bonded with malic, and especially since he comes from the world of rituals, if he is to use some of his power and malices, they coul easily have him enter, and then malice is able to use him as an avatar, or even poses him possibly.
ANother thing I would imagine the daemon king would do is instead of making a powerful daemon, split himself in half and even so far as having a much less powerfull other half, and then that half gows to malice, then the power requirements for putting a damon king into real space are much less, the smaller fragement could have access to the daemon kings pwoer and the damon king could even be free from being affected by malic's vibes and energis, one way iphoning the magic from him, or only receiving raw energyies perhaps filtering it and maybe only using it in spells.
@@NyghthawkesImagination interesting
Malal and the Sons of Malice ironically fell to one of the most powerful sources of chaos, copyright dispute.
They are one in the same and correct, that was my favorite till they removed him.
@Sir Marqus Kane Actually, no, they are not one in the same. It's pretty obvious from their names.
@@violet_steak3412 the name was changed due to a copyright issue.
@@thashadowspawn Okay, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are the same person.
@@violet_steak3412 Okay education time. So for a bunch of comics & early Warhammer gaming editions for both Fantasy & 40K, Games Workshop hired John Wagner (creator of Judge Dredd) and Alan Grant. They created Kaleb Daark as a Chaos anti-hero character, and made Malal as his patron god to explain why a champion of Chaos would fight other champions of Chaos . When John Wagner and Alan Grant had a falling out, they had to divvy up the intellectual property rights they owned, and it turned out they owned Malal due to UK copyright law specifying that freelancers owned the rights to their creations. When GW realized this they purged Malal from the canon even though they had already completed concept art for his Daemons to be put into the Realms of Chaos books.
Though you actually can get models of Daemons of Malal for the same reason Malal isn't canon anymore, the art for them is owned by freelance artist Tony Ackland so he can just sell them as "Demons of Malice". Malal is the 80s name of the 5th chaos god while Malice is the reboot early 90s renaming of the same character due to legal copyright issues. They are indeed the same character. Theirs other chaos gods that most of the newer hobby fans have little to no knowledge of that has been a part of the hobby since the 70s onward that fell out of popularity but they were not removed from the Cannon. Theirs a lot of older cannon stuff returning to the game in the current and soon to be 10th edition timeline.
I've always thought it was funny that the space marine in the Malice short story somehow didn't ever consider that being a "doomed one" might be a BAD thing for him. It tells you you're doomed, right there in the name.
The Labrynth is one of my favorite stories 😊
dude must of thought it was just an edgy chaos thing lol
Malice is and always was the god king himself
Pride blinded him
Yeah, sure. But point of contention - define "BAD thing" in 40k context.
The 4 chaos gods are aspects you can slide into, rage, lust, paranoia, decay.
Malice is the one that requires intention. You don't accidentally become malicious...
He is/was the god of chaos and anarchy
Malice, The chaos god of Malice
@@orrorsaness5942 the chaos god of chaos
@Jim Schreiber He's not the chaos God of malice though. He's the chaos God of chaos/anarchy. He pretty much represents the negative side of life like what sentient beings would be like / do without rules and society. Pretty much the Chaos God of Mad Max lmao
In essence, that makes Malice a closer God to willpower than even Khorne.
I think Malice is the god of *Self-consuming* hatred. The hatred that is turned inward and so is reflected outward. Malice is the knowledge that when you have killed everyone and the universe is a cold, silent place, there will still be one more life to end.
I think that fills the most distinct niche in the chaos pantheon.
Yup
Ooo that’s a really nice quote, I’m gonna have to remember that
Malice is Carl the Llama
@@felsenaxt6237 and finally it becomes clear....
thats a concept that only works in a world with time
"We shall deny Nurgle their flesh to fester and rot.
We shall deny Khorne their blood and skulls.
We shall deny Tzeentch their destinies and fates.
We shall deny Slaanesh their pleasure and pain.
Death to the Dark Gods!
For the Renegade God!
Let the galaxy burn!"
- A Dirge of Malal
(From Warhammer 40k wiki)
Both Chaos and the IoM want the galaxy to burn. I find that interesting.
@@Tommybotham Everyone wants Galaxy to burn
@@patrik9328 the tau?
@@stephengayton5246 The Tauva is evil and she claims she wants it to burn. Make of it what you will.
@@stephengayton5246 not yet....
The theme with Malice and Malal seems to be self-destruction. A “taking you with me” attitude, taken to its most extreme limits. Creating champions just to destroy them, it really does say it all.
What about Necoho, the Doubter?
…are the death corp of Krieg malice worshipers the whole time?!!!
Not really, that's how sacrifice works. All followers of Chaos do it, and they always sacrifice champions and powerful warriors because you think Khorne is gonna be amused at all that you sacrificed 100 peasants for him? Not impressive, come back again when you're serious "lord" whoever you are
So.....Chaos undivided?
Show me a faction that is not Khorne berserkers that goes after other chaos factions, including chaos undivided.
For Malice it is Scorched Earth policy out of sheer spite.
Malice/Malal is one of the weirdest things in 40k,both in and out of universe and it's fascinating. It's like he's canon yet retconned at the same time. Wes has done a fantastic job to explain Malice/Malal in a clear cut and understandable manner.
Wierdly, the fact he's simultaneously canon and retconned completely fits his m.o
Makes sense with the inclusion of vashtorr we can make a solid guess he's just like vashtorr being a demi god and not a full chaos god but also not a deamon but a being formed from emotion.
Honestly most intriguing Choas God IMO.
@@refugeehugsforfree4151 honestly in modern 40k he really isn't. A chaos god that hates chaos. Chaos already hates it's self so malice is redundant and his main characteristic isn't even special.
@@YOGI-kb9tg Oh yes, Nurgle hates himself and all his children. Yup.
?
Malice's chaotic energy managed to even tear through the fabric of the 4th wall & cause chaos even to his makers
I think that makes him even cooler tbh. Like his paradoxical madness of being and not being extends through all realities.
Malal/Malice always came off as a being of pure, distilled Spite.
He spites the other gods as well as humanity, just the act of being against everyone for your own self interest.
A “positive” way to look at what he represents, much like how the Main 4 gods have “positives” to them would be that he represents Fortitude, Willpower, and conviction.
Mala lives off of pure FUCK YOU energy
Ive always seen him as the God of all the others hence his black and whiteness, he is chaos and he is order, he is life and he is death, he is change and he is stagnation, he is sanity and he is Insanity, he is excess and contentment, he is creation and he is destruction, he is normalcy and structure of the universe and he is the anomalous and a paradox he is malice the chaos god of chaos and the order god of order
he could also be seen as a balance of some kind, he tries to kill all the chaos gods even though thatll ultimately end in him being heavily weakened since he wouldnt be needed for that purpose anymore
Sounds like the Emperor of Mankind there ;P
"Killing In The Name"
Killing in the name of
Some of those that work forces, are the same that burn crosses
Some of those that work forces, are the same that burn crosses
Some of those that work forces, are the same that burn crosses
Some of those that work forces, are the same that burn crosses
Huh!
Killing in the name of
Killing in the name of
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
But now you do what they told ya
Well now you do what they told ya
Those who died are justified, for wearing the badge, they're the chosen whites
You justify those that died by wearing the badge, they're the chosen whites
Those who died are justified, for wearing the badge, they're the chosen whites
You justify those that died by wearing the badge, they're the chosen whites
Some of those that work forces, are the same that burn crosses
Some of those that work forces, are the same that burn crosses
Some of those that work forces, are the same that burn crosses
Some of those that work forces, are the same that burn crosses
Uggh!
Killing in the name of
Killing in the name of
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya
And now you do what they told ya, now you're under control
And now you do what they told ya, now you're under control
And now you do what they told ya, now you're under control
And now you do what they told ya, now you're under control
And now you do what they told ya, now you're under control
And now you do what they told ya, now you're under control
And now you do what they told ya, now you're under control
And now you do what they told ya!
Those who died are justified, for wearing the badge, they're the chosen whites
You justify those that died by wearing the badge, they're the chosen whites
Those who died are justified, for wearing the badge, they're the chosen whites
You justify those that died by wearing the badge, they're the chosen whites
Come on!
Yeah! Come on!
Duck you fanatics, I won't do what you tell me
Duck you nerds, I won't do what you tell me
DUCK YOU Frogs, I won't do what you tell me
Duck you Ctan, I won't do what you tell me
Duck you Tyranids, I won't let you run from me!
Duck the Necrons, I won't do what you tell me
Duck you Ork, I won't do what you tell me
Duck YoU Eldar, I won't do what you tell me
Duck The Tau, I won't do what you tell me!
Duck die Imperium, I won't do what you tell me!
Duck you Khorne, I won't do what you tell me!
Duck you Nergal, I won't do what you tell me!
Duck you Slanesh, I won't do what you tell me!
Duck you Tzeentch, I won't do what you tell me!
Duck GamesWorkshop, I won't do what you tell me!
Duck you all, I won't do what you tell me!
Mother ducker!
Uggh!
" Our duel will be honorable. "
Invictus: " That's one less loose end. "
I like that there is a clear line between malice and rage, as those two things can be mixed up. Pure hatred doesn’t mean your a raging monster, making it a lot more interesting.
Yeah, the followers of Khorne may use hate to fuel their rage, but rage doesn't require hate and hate doesn't require rage.
Khorne = Rage
Malal = Hate
Malaal: “I will be the greatest Chaos God ever!”
Horus: “Malaal, just stop.”
Squat: "Ya can't keep doing this to yourself, mate."
I just had a thought, many people don't like Perturabo being canonically a daemon primarch, what if he was linked to Malice, a chaos god that hates everyone as much as he does
Problem is that would make him loyal to a form of chaos which perturabo is not. Also all followers of malice eventually die to their souls slowly being drained from him.
@@timeforthehammer1401 the part about following chaos probably the biggest strike against my spontaneous theory, I know it was fantasy but the old version had one major follower who I assume didn't die, but at the same time we do have long lived basic iron warriors
Also it is a funny coincidence that if I'm not mistaken, his soul was already being destroyed because of Fulgrim and that's why he became a daemon
Might be cool, but Vashtorr would be a better fit for Perturabo.
@@jtfbreedlove true, I think it was confirmed in the vashtorr book that they have an alliance
@@timeforthehammer1401 yea but he is a fucking primarch so peobaly his souls needs way more time to be consumed
Super disappointed Malice is out of focus because of copyright issues.
I think Malice is such a cool and unique character and there’s a lot you could do with them and how much they could shake up the status quo
Mr Malal the Chaos God of Malice has been recannonised only due to the Dungeons and Dragons crossover. If that never happened, then Malal would have stayed completely non canon as Malal would be written out of the 40K books and an attempt to make it be forgotten.
@@orrorsaness5942 ... there was a d&d crossover? How deep in the iceberg is that?
@@generalalduin9548 Who knows man… who knows.
@@generalalduin9548 Welp… there’s like this DND faction that becomes 40K canon thanks to the crossover, and finally… the most important part of the crossover, is the full on recanonization of… M A L A L!!!
@@generalalduin9548gw started out distributing d&d in the UK and made miniatures for it. It was only really when Bryan ansell took over that they changed focus on to their own items only (which also involved moving the company from London to Nottingham).
Malice was birthed from what one could see as the most anarchic destructive and spiteful events of the 40k timeline. The Horus Heresy, and the siege of Terra, the energies around that event... the sheer violence and destruction it wrought for the sake of violence and destruction... the amount of warp energy around the climax of it all.... and the act that pushed the emperor to destroy Horus... his spiteful killing of Sanginius, was enough to birth Malice into existence.
And Istvaan V too. It's a good theory. We'd need to know if Malice is one of the greater god's or a deity, as all the greater god's are born of an event of massive proportions
@@gavinflynn9345 Well I cant say about 40k, but in Warhammer Fantasy Battle, Malal has been there since 1st Ed. (oh so many years ago). From what little is said, it seems to be an equal to any one of the Ruinous 4.
Malice is Horus
Your right about the Horus Heresy fueling Malice.
Isn't the warp "timeless"? I think he can be created in the Horus Heresy in the time as we know it, but he was always there in the warp.
Give me the Malice faction. I turned down chaos for tyranids because I would have had to ramshackle a Malice army together. The fighting in complete silence is pretty rad.
The fifth god might be the true God of chaos the one that benefits from all chaos so any chaos god is just his puppet a lot of the times the chaos gods are more surface but deep whitin the warp we don't know what's there so a few stronger chaos gods wouldn't surprise me maybe there were 10 before but if u don't stay at the surface u will get infused into the warp it self and become nothing but energy feeding the warp
CARCHARODONS ASTRA, also fight in silence a requiem of blood like a swarm of sharks they surround their enemy and then the frenzy begins, rip and tear for the void-father
We'll probably never see a malice faction due to the copyright issues.
Space sharks would be good too. Complete silence as they make a lake of blood
For the ones saying space sharks yes thier silent but with the sons of malice it is COMEPLETE silence as in their owns weapons do not make noise at ALL
I always like to think that Malice is the breaker of the cycles. one of 40k's biggest themes is stagnation and even Chaos is starting to fall into a routine among the rest of the galaxy. They must be forced to change or forced to end. For his followers also wish to see to the end of the never ending cycles that chaos brings. Either through the gods destruction or the followers oblivion.
this reminds me of something kind of funny in stellaris in a dlc there this place called the shroud which is basickly just the warp it got the chaos gods and everything but there a small chance that instead of being chosen by a chaos god there chosen by an entity called "End of the Cycle" which is clearly malice including the fact everyone hates you
In my opinion, the four (main) chaos gods represent four primal truths about existence.
1. Khorne represents conflict
2. Tzeentch represents deception
3. Slaanseh represents desire
4. Nurgle represents death and decay.
Malal/Malice represents the rejection of existence through nihilism. He represents a form of giving up on life, and the intention of taking others with them. In that the act of not valuing your own life also means not valuing the lives of others.
And I for one would welcome him into the modern day Warhammer world.
Nurgle also represents the cycle of life and death.
Nurgle is the nicest chaos God.
We are the will that shatters the Crystal Labyrinth.
We are the fire that burns the garden of rot.
We are the tide that washes away the throne of skulls.
We are the hammer that crushes the palace of perfection.
We are Malice. We are the legion.
(Hope i wrote this down correctly)
Coudent find the orginal passeg so i hope this is correct
@@lordrainbow5029 Beautiful!
This should be the new motto of Malal 📿!
I love when 40k lore is deep dives into niche murky topics like this. Really well done man
Not sure if it's canon or not, but I remember reading that Malice didn't pop up until Big E was trapped on the throne. If that's Big E's warp form, it'd make sense. Malice is the chaos god of "anti-chaos" and actively seeks to undermine and destroy the 4 main chaos gods. Further evidence of my theory is that even greater demons/demon primarchs have trouble manifesting after a ritual is done. But a literal avatar of "Malice" can be summoned? There has to be a corporeal form that helps tether him to reality. Right? And then individuals like St. Celestine and Sly Marbo could possibly be unique, greater demons, or even demon princes. It's already been established and made canon that Ferris Manus manifested as the leader for the legion of the damned...but we never got a description of his new form. And it's a pretty big coincidence that F.M. and Vashtor are 2 of the 3 characters we know of that use a hammer of some sort as their primary weapon. I mean yeah, there's also Vulcan that does, but he's a confirmed perpetual that's taking a lava bath because his legion threw him into a volcano without knowing he'd come back 😂
But yeah, there's also the Sanguinor (I THINK) that could count as a demon prince as well, given that it's pretty much confirmed to be half of Sanguinious after his death. And I could be wrong, but I'm 99% sure that I've read something about a Shard of Magnus reverting back to being loyalist? So that right there gives us potentially THREE "demon primarchs" that would be loyal to Big E./Malice, if my theory is true.
It doesn't help that, in one of the Ark of Omen books, Vashtor MAKES IT TO A THRONE ROOM, within which he's telepathicly ASKED by Big E. to stick around...AND HE DOES. A NAMED demon that's in the running to become another chaos god wouldn't pop a squat that casually unless there's an alliance or bond between them that we don't know about yet.
Which book ?
I'm glad to see this theory is popular beyond just my head cannon for 4 years.
I also read in the comments an idea that the Emperor made a pact with Malice in order to make the Primarchs and/or gain power himself. I like that idea as well.
I'm glad to see this theory is popular beyond just my head cannon for 4 years.
I also read in the comments an idea that the Emperor made a pact with Malice in order to make the Primarchs and/or gain power himself. I like that idea as well.
What if Malice is just the god of racism or something.
LIke the god of malice towards evil. Not the god of good or order, but the god of hating evil.
An intentional feeling that must purposely be accessed.
"The Renegade God" is a freaking sick title.
Indeed man
One of the Lost Primarchs, No. 11, had attracted Malice. Dude wanted in and having a Primarch would be a an easy and fast way to get on the board. The Emperor wanted to save his son but Malice was far too powerful and insistent, leaving the Emperor no choice but to axe his primarch son.
i dont see why Malal would be so powerful that Big e couldnt handle it yet could deal with any of the big 4
@@firmak2 Because Malal pretty much combines the strengths of all the gods, because he represents chaos itself
@@gavinziozios1431 then he would overpower the other gods but doesnt tho they are direct enemies. also isnt that slaneesh thing?
@@firmak2 No, Slaanesh represents dark desires and obsession. And he IS stronger than the other gods, but he's just as likely to screw himself and his followers over as he is his enemies. Such is the nature of chaos
@@gavinziozios1431 "No, Slaanesh represents dark desires and obsession." no, Slaneesh represents everything you enjoy and hate. From the wind on your face to the cupcace you secretly ate. ALL of it. That includes part of everything that the other chaos gods do and the farther they go ( excess of blood for the blood god) the more slaneesh gets out of it. " And he IS stronger than the other gods, but he's just as likely to screw himself and his followers over as he is his enemies" not according to the lore, unless you have a source that states that.
As a security guard myself
I wish to thank you for keeping my awake for my night shift
“I serve Chaos DIVIDED!!”
-A follower of Malice, probably.
“Brother we shall be a worthy battle one for the ages!!”
“That’s nice.”
Imagine Vashtorr and Malice having to do a fusion dance to realize their goals, Vashtorr gets to ascend to chaos god level (maybe higher) and Malice gets enough power to potentially destroy the galaxy.
Be gentle: could malice be the emperor? Slowly gaining power to seek the destruction of the other chaos gods? Would be a cool reveal
That is definitely something that has been speculated on by the community before 🙂
@@weshammer thanks for the reply great video 😁 I pretty much know diddly but I got my tin foil hat on and am hoping for the awesome reveal he is
I keep pushing this idea even if Leutin tells me it is stupid.
@@inthefade all the better if we turn out to be right lol
That's just impossible, 1. Because Malal is retconned, 2. The Chaos gods would know who the Emperor is.
Khorne: Worship me for power and blood!!!
Nurgle: Worship me and you shall never die!
Tzeench: Worship me and know fate itself!!
Slaanesh: Worship me and feel pleasure immesurable!
Malice: ... Im in your walls ... 👁️👁️
Necoho, the Doubter: We don't really exist. -- Another forgotten Chaos god.
Malice being in his siblings walls and now i cant help but imagine all of them being paranoid thats he is in thier walls, but instead he just hanging around one of Big E's shard just vibing
In The End and the Death by Dan Abnett, there is mention of The Dark King. Could it be a gestating Malice ? Considering Chaos Gods have always been there, but Slaanesh was born at one point in history, could the idea of Malice be already there, but he doesn't "exist" yet ?
If it is the case, then the Heresy would generate exactly the kind of resonance Malice would crave : hate and self-consuming hatred, self destruction, anarchy...
Malice seems like an interesting chaos god. with him being destined to kill the other gods that would imply that his soldiers are stronger than the others, it's just that they are smaller in comparison and this his worshipers have to actively choose to join instead of finding themselves accidentally joining like the other gods.
He is the best Chaos God and we need more of him. I need to see what happened after he was summoned.
Haha! Malice is legitimately my favorite my favorite Chaos God, so I will always enjoy more videos in him
I must say this yet again: THANK YOU for making these videos. This incredible universe is just addicting to hear about!
In my opinion, Malal/Malice is the personification of the chaotic nature of Chaos itself, the almost inevitable tendency of Chaos to destroy itself, the insane desire of Chaos to burn the galaxy despite knowing full well such a dead galaxy would starve them. His is the mindless urge to break and tear and destroy, just for the sake of it. When chaos worshippers scream "Let the galaxy BURN!!", Malice is speaking through them
Malice is the voice in your head that tells you to kill and break everything including yourself. He is the call of the void, the one that tells you to jump off a building or burn your own hand. When you feel hatred for the worthless world you live in, despair for the seemingly uncaring and unbreakable systems of life, and anger at the futility of it all; when you finally break and wish to pull it out by the roots, wipe the slate clean, burn it down, then you know what Malice truly is
I like to think of it as a longing for tranquility, silence, and oblivion. Maddened and overwhelmed by the darkness of the world, they want to see it all end.
@@mortenrl1946 Yes.
Followers of Malal rage against the chaos. The chaos of the galaxy and life itself, and against the literal forces of chaos.
They are infuriated by the very notion of existence, and in seeking to destroy everything they embody the very chaos they despise.
@@astrovarius543 so pretty much like old necrons, just make everything silent including yourself
I get the impression that followers, daemons and greater daemons of Malice are stronger than other Chaos followers in battle due to Malice's tenable connection to the materium. Smaller in numbers but freakishly powerful.
I love the impression that the chaos gods actually fear him and hate when he laughs cause that means he got someone
@@theenderdestruction2362 These ancient and vastly intelligent eldritch beings who sow fear and/or desire are afraid of something. A being who thrives on pure nihilism and annihilation. A being that wonders why reality exists at all, and believes it would be better if nothing existed.
He doesn't just thrive on the chaos but also on the disruption of Chaos, suggesting meta-levels of entropy. Such a concept taps into deeper fears and existential dreads, giving him power from the very despair and hopelessness that the unending wars breed among all beings-human or otherwise.
I've mused before that he is the extreme bad ending. If things get dark enough, if despair grows and grows and the Grimdark reaches its zenith like some blackhole reaching critical mass, he will become strong enough that Malice/Malal destroys all of reality.
There is a reason they fear him.
The story of the labyrinth had me gripped. It was genuinely scary. The end was epic. Brilliant addition to Black Library.
Malice was the only lost or 5th Chaos Deity that was the most hated among all beings of the warp. They had a few sections on him, but he never was considered a major player in the series. It would be nice to see him as a second or third threat to the forces of Chaos.
Wes: 'surprise, grimdark story hour'
Me: *frantically pauses the video to find headphones*
(I can't get enough of the short stories, I love all the ones you've done)
I remember other lesser chaos gods, old forgotten lore... Atagro the God of the Beasts, Zuvassin God of Misfortune, Necoho, Kweethul, Morck'Kok
Its just logical look at our lore of hell satan might not be the strongest Couse why would a failed angel be stronger then a true demon king makes no sense he is a lesser angel he is weaker then his brethren so why would he be better then Lilith he wouldn't and all 4 chaos gods got born so who was there before them there was alway chaos in the warp but maybe not too this extent so malice was always there and then when the warp become more chaotic and the other got born he hid and waited Couse maybe all chaos and dead is his power
The last one has a sus name.
@@walterlaten7662 Well, Satan is not a fallen angel at all.
Many consider him as Lucifer, but this is wrong.
Satan is a god from Sumerian pantheon, named Enkil (god of beast, magic and life), so he is a true god, just as Lilith and many other pagsn god demonized later by jews and chistians (Moloch, Bhaal Zebates, Amon, Ishtar and many others now known as demon in ars goetia).
Lucifer is one of the rebel angels (by the way, she is a female entity, and we know this because of her name, lucifer is only her title).
Anyway, i understand what you mean: An angel generated by a god cannot be stronger than a real demonic god, isn't it?
@@nobleman9393 didn’t even realize it until you mentioned that 🤣😂🤣😂🤯
@@nobleman9393 It's an homage to Micheal Moorcock i think
A chaos god of chaos certainly seems fitting
Malal may be what the 4 chaos gods unknowingly and unintentionally created themselves with their malice towards each other in their Great Game
I still believe that THE GOD EMPEROR OF MANKIND is the 5th Chaos God of Anarchy and the two Lost Primarchs and their Legions belong to him
@@sagenod440 I don't know. Maybe have a look around at Mankind?
edited: Ok I don't know if you can see it or not, but I cannot so the guy asked me how can the emperor be related to Anarchy in any way.
Edited: THE GOD EMPEROR OF MANKIND
I mean to be honest this description kinda sounds like the emperor
Anarchy? No. Something else for sure though.
Maybe he will send them out once he is ready Couse whitout the webway he must have shifted too a different strategy right so maybe becoming a chaos god might be his other plan
Anarchy? As in 'Without Authority'? Feels like the antithesis of what the Emporor is all about.
Hell yeah! A great bedtime video 🙏🏼 thanks for all you do for the Warhammer community Wes ☺️
To me, the thing that makes the most sense is that Malice is a god created from the thoughts of Chaos like Chaos are formed from the thoughts of material men. It is, in essence, another layer deep, and thus even more powerful, secret and self-destructive. He's literally a god of gods, or more poetically, he is the King to the Princes of Chaos.
And I love that there are many more chaos gods. There are a few well known ones such as the hornet rat and hashut. However there are less well known ones as well. I love how much lore there is and how there has always seemed a connection between their games.
My personal crackpot Malice theory is that he is what became of the souls devoured by Llandu'Gor the Flayer following his True Death. Would be an interesting concept.
Don’t forget about the Sons of Mallus, Stormhost of the Stormcast Eternals. Loyal to Sigmar, yet feared by mortals and even make their fellow stormhosts uneasy when forced to serve alongside them.
Dude, that story. Thank you, Wes. You told that beautifully.
You won my heart with this episode. FOR THE RENEGADE GOD
LET THE GALAXY BUUUUUUUUURN
im leaning towards Malice/Malal being part of the chaos undivided camp and that there is a host of similar gods that hate the younger ones for being so specific in their craft of chaos
Good job on giving Malal some lime light Wes. There is an amazing Warhammer fantasy book following a dark elf who has given himself to Malice and just goes buck on other chaos god champions. Absolutely amazing read
The sons of malice have some of the best designs of any legion
This episode has had some of the best space marine art I've ever seen in any of your videos
Could you make a deep dive on salamanders? About how they were formed and how Vulkan defended his village against the dark elder and create there own weapons.
Malal / Malice:
"I MUST KILL CHAOS!"
Lol 😆
I definitely want to see you cover the Ork clans at some point. Da Boyz need to be talked about more!
Thank you for covering Malice. Cool character definitely need more info on ol' Malice, in an official capacity.
When do you think Malal will break out of the Retconnian?
He already did
Malice is the Emporer's manifestation as a god. Driven insane by the warp & golden throne, his becoming a object of worship and all he fought to destroy...yet still wishing to destroy the pantheon.
"And he that went before now, came last"
One of my boarding actions teams is the sons of malice, its my only chaos aligned army. My boys getting repped in a vid like this has made my day!
Another great video Wes! You're a GREAT storyteller and I cannot wait to see the next thing you cover.
Hey thanks a ton! Really happy you enjoy the videos 🙂
Thank you for making these videos, from someone who is just now getting into the 40K universe.
Your videos are very informative and in depth of all the lore and interesting info that goes along with each one that you release.
Can't wait to see what's next
I feel fairly knowledgeable about the lore but I'm amazed at how much more you know. Your general knowledge combined with your research makes.for really enjoyable content. Thank you.
A "Hierarch of Anarchy" is just so extremely funny. It's like saying "A sand dune of ocean wave".
I enjoy learning about 40k even though I don’t play or anything. That said, this has to be my favorite group of space marines just based off of aesthetic alone. I love the black and white scheme and how their armor is kinda demonic on one side and relatively normal on the other. It’s just such a cool look and I’m absolutely here for it. If there is any then I’d totally try painting some models of these just for fun and to have them as little shelf decorations.
I used to think Hashut from the Fantasy series was a mix of Khorne and Tzeentch. But it seems like Malice might be the real one. Some being made from the personalities of each deity in the worst ways.
Never forget the stupid shit they did to Hashut in the Endtimes 😂
@@donaldthump6461 Honestly I'm still kinda new to the lore of the series 😅. I've learned A Lot. But there's always more that I haven't seen or heard about yet 🤷🏾♂️ lol. And like Thorgrim, Balthazar Gelt and a bunch of other characters, I can only guess that it's not good whatever happened to Hashut 😵😂. Especially considering that Nagash literally ate Morr the god of death and became the new deity in his place. Which just pissed me off that Settra in his arrogance and magnificence to match or overtake Nagash couldn't do the same thing with the god of Life from ancient Nehekara. All of the other gods of that realm are pretty much dead except that one serpent goddess, I think 🤔 or I'm confusing that with the snake god of the Lizardmen. Anyway, they could also use some more Tomb King units and a way for them to finally treturn to life, if not immortality almost like Imhotep from the Mummy movies (who in actual ancient Egyptian myth was said to have become a god after being a mortal priest for most of his life. But I guess the turn of the century or somt kinda buried whatever info or legends about him from there. Along with most of the other stories about those gods besides Ra's journey through the Duat or Horus battling Set/Seth for the throne after he killed Osiris and so on). While it does pretty much fit the description of “grimdark” the End Times lore definitely needs to be revised. It's almost like someone in the writing was killing off major characters in almost comical ways in a drama TV show or movie just to end their cycle and introduce new people so there's not like 1000 characters to remember in popular Shonen anime like Naruto or One Piece (mostly One Piece 😅😂). Considering how powerful and important some of them were, several characters should've become gods at least minorly.
@@trailblazerlazerrazerd9027 well to be short they just said: Lolz Hashut was just Khorn is disguise haha pranked
@@donaldthump6461 I mean I kind of get that but at the same time it doesn't sound like a Khorne move. He doesn't bother with tricks or traps or spells, that's kinda why he hates Slaanesh and Tzeentch probably more than Nurgle tbh 😅🤷🏾♂️ lol. At least Nurgle is just diseases and smelly to him. Khorne doesn't generally give out magic either, that sounds more like a Tzeentch deal. His thing is more like having a bloodlust so high it makes you scary calm, like going from a berserker to a serial murderer of the battlefield (if that makes sense) which can manifest as bat-like demonic wings, fire breath, electrified or flaming weapons, etc. And Tzeentch let's folks who worship him think they're going to some higher power status only to troll them into turning themselves into a mutant monster or something for the Lolz. Khorne is just ongoing battle and strife and it doesn't matter whom fights whom, because he gets a piece of the action no matter what. And he also doesn't really absorb souls or anything unless someone is an exceptional warrior/killing machine in battle. Khorne's more malicious demons and human/mutant worshipper servants are more about that like most of the ones featured in the series who inact plans and whatnot, like the 2 or 3 featured in the Gotrek & Felix books.
@@donaldthump6461 Khorne using fire magic? what fake news is this!
Shouldn't one of the main Warp powers be the God of Anxiety and Insecurity? Does Chaos not acknowledge this God because He is just the worst? What's the deal here?
Since anxienty and insecurity typically relates to one of the others domains. One feels anxiety about illness (Nurgle), the future(Tzeentch), etc...
@@alastor8091 and complain about things she/him/it doesn't like and makes it out as if it was a crime
"you guys are literally hatler"
@@ulfjohnsen6203 I kind of agree but here is the reason anxiety and insecurity should be their own thing. Once someones becomes a worshiper of Chaos, they no longer HAVE any insecurities. That is kinda the point of believing in a higher power. A follower of Slaanesh isn't worried about pleasing their partner. A plague marine isn't worried about their appearance or getting old or sick. Anxiety and Insecurity can lead someone to the worship of any Chaos God but none of them actually have it in their portfolio. That is why It would be the most powerful, if It were not a mess. In theory.
@@sakomanlee I like the idea. It would be a lesser god like Vashtorr that the main gods all use to get power.
@@inthefade Agreed! And this god would be lesser because all Their followers would eventually fall to one of the Greater Gods. Like most insecure people, Their jealousy and anxiety would drive worshipers into the hands of others. Self-fulfilling prophesy and the like. thanks for the reply! I get anxious when I post.
So does this mean that for a while there actually were 6 Chaos gods in Warhammer Fantasy? Khorne, Tzeench, Nurgle, Slaanesh, Malal/Malice and The Great Horned Rat!
I would absolutely love for Malice to be reintroduced into the lore
I've always thought that the issues with Abaddon in the canon could be solved with Malice. Considering that Abby has "failed" so many times it makes sense that the chaos gods would kick him to the curb and try to replace him with their chosen champion, only for Malice to save him and allow him to survive. The black legion dissolves without Abbys leadership as chaos undivided devolves into their own fractured battles and warband leaders fighting for power. Abby is given the opportunity to gain vengeance on the 4 ruinous powers for their betrayal and redeem Abby in the narrative as a genuine threat.
The idea of the big foul four realizing to late that abbadon was the only one who could actually get shit done, and now malice has him and isnt even trying to eat his soul is the most hilarious thing to me because i know damn well malice would love abbadon because he simply uses chaos as a end to the means, he geuinly doesn't want to worship them so malice would love that and would be 100% on board with it and if abby does start falling malice will remind him
Fun video. The Son's of Malice have always been 'around' so to speak. They got a brief cameo in the 2007 Chaos Marine's codex too. Have you ever looked into The Dragon Warriors? They were the 4th company of The Salamander's chapter who turned renegade
Canon or not; The Sons of Malice is a badass name and have a great colour scheme. That and It'd be an awesome name for a Death Metal band.
I love the text to speech emperor references; "I WILL BECOME CANON!, I WILL, I WILL, I WILL!" "There there Malal,... how about some hot chocolate"
Can you do a video about the 2nd and 11th legion? I'm itching to know what happened if you could find anything about them. (Please)
Probably will never know that they just lost or they might be a deamon by now who we even know but they got changed so much thru the warp and now we could never recognise them they might not even know who they are maybe deamons found them and nurtured them like te others also had adoptive parents but instead it's a deamon wouldn't be surprised if tseentch had one hidden away or skarbrand was a primearch before he got twisted like that who knows I don't
@@walterlaten7662 doubt it because it’s stated the Big E met every primarch in person at least once during the great crusade (that would imply the 2nd and 11th) and there’s the line about Leman slaying at least one of them.
11 th legion
Well my guy You just watched a video about them
Hahah joking but you know.. 11?
Coincidence?
its unknown what happened to them, only lore bits of what others have talked about them like Horus, malcador, Bile etc.
They were originally a 'create your own ' legion in the early period of the game. As they were never intended to be m🎉into anything in lore, they effectively have been ignored long enough that creating lore now or bringing them back would be silly and pointless. The best we'll ever have is tit bits of obscure reference to them.
Malice, AKA the Milhouse of the pantheon. HE WILL NEVER BE A MEME.
Malice would be amazing in the lore if he was revealed or added to the universe
I honestly think malice sitting between cannon and not cannon suits him better. Little mysterious yet interesting.
I would like to see GW add some lore about the Son's of Malice slowly introducing them and even defining the Doomed ones just like the other 4 chaos gods have there special soldiers
@@ironwarriors4lyfe635 that's not horrible idea
The only problem is the scaling of a Doomed One, we don't know about how powerful they are or if they have any extra powers
@@ero9841 Malice is this popular and seeing how greedy GW is they would love to bring him back, if it wasnt for the copyright legal stuff.
You did it again Wes! Another great video.
Please keep doing deep dive like the one you did with the Mechanicus that was 10/10
I painted a dark apostle a while ago based on chess and ended up looking similar to the sons of malice
This makes that tts episode make so much more sense... ty
I would enjoy to see a faction which is neither totally Chaos nor totally Loyal, Malice followers fill that part just right! Shame there is not much lore on them!
I've been thinking of making a Kill Team and it would be so fun to play a loyalist SM faction but paint and kit bash them to be Sons of Malice 😅
This has gotta be the cutest man ive ever seen talk about something as dark as warhammer
I’ve always really liked the theory that the emperor is the god of malice
No I heard he was the Chaos God of Pride
Doesn't make exact logic, given that Malice represents some concepts that go against Big E's desires, e.g. complete annihilation of literally everything, including himself
@@Llambda94 the god of sassy sauce
why? it makes more sense to be order.
@@Llambda94 thats khorne
I actually themed my custom chapter to have half of them fall to Malice one day
So Malice is like if Be'lakor sort of merged with Hashut from the Warhammer Fantasy series? Basically an entity who hates the other chaos gods more than anything else and wants to become the number 1 just like all of the others. But that is true. The other gods have their ironic good sides/moments mostly when they screw over their own worshippers and champions or help humanity and other factions by attacking the other Chaos powers like Slaanesh fighting Tzeentch, or Khorne fighting Nurgle, and all of them in between when the forces of Order (Elves, Humans, Dwarves, etc) is more like the dessert after they devour one another on the battlefield. Which would in turn give the “good guys” a chance at survival and/or victory. But Malal or Malice was basically plotted on as an entity as an outcast 🤔. He's sort of like the Ravenguard primarch Corvus Corax, becoming a bird-like demon in the Warp that hunts down the servants and chaos space marines of Lorgar and the traitor himself. But Malal was retconned out and Malice might as well have been since it's hardly spoken of, same once again with Be'lakor who's officially just a crowner of their champions like Abbandon the Despoiler. But he's also an incredibly devious planner and can't build up enough of a following to become substantiated as a god, no teaming billions to quintillions or near enough of them to sing his praises and fear his wrath. But Malice is basically like the Reaper Strain Vampires from the Blade series, mutant vampires that hunt their more normalized kindred. And because they're never big enough in the Warp to do anything to really bother the other dark gods, they permit them to attack their servants since occasional wars or constant wars against each other are fun for them. There's also the Legion of the Damned for the Imperium who are so wrought with rage and wrath they're literally covered in flames and grow hotter and hotter the more they fight and basically teleport to other places like the Living Saints to continue fighting, with their unending fury being intentionally directed at the forces of chaos. But allies in the Imperial Guard or other Space Marines aren't spared by the flames coming off of them, not by the blades or somehow infinitely full guns blasting round after round at any Nurgle zombies or Tzeenthian chameleons hiding their true forms until discovered.
This, this right here. This is the one major piece of lore I want to be cannon again.
Do a video on the god of the Skaven:
The dread, Chuck E. Cheese
I didn't know that it had such deep lore, I thought Malice was retconned ages ago. Really cool faction, and I would love to see them become a space marine pirate faction or something with that skull theme and their us against the galaxy attitude. Be cool if they became a credible threat to traders and warp travellers and had hidden fortresses around the galaxy.
if you listen to Luten's lore channel he brings up a concept that nothing in Warhammer lore history is truely retconned. We only get info from the perspective of characters from what information *they* have at the time which is an inconsistant time line anyway, even with multible conflictioning accounts which will change to shed more light on something. Which i tend to agree with.
@Michael I do listen to him, he's fantastic. A very good point as well I'd forgotten about that. 👍
I think the emporer was slowly corrupted by the thousands of sacrifices turning him into a new evil God kinda like how the billions of people who died in war turned the warp evil
What I love about SoM and Malal/Malice is precisely that there is not a lot of canon for them. This is much more like 'old' warhammer (circa 2nd ed 40k) which left a lot of blanks for you to personalise and fill in with your own imagination.
Malice is technically the first chaos god, he had so much hate that he then created existence itself so there was something to hate. He is so powerful that the other chaos gods try to subconsciously avoid acknowledging his presence so as to not attract his attention.
The labyrinth was so well narrated, it was really entertaining.
How powerful would Slaanesh become if he were to consume Malice?
@2:10 look at our handsome guy! Glad that sponsors are flooding to you Bud!
“Do you hear that Chaplin, Nothing. No GrandFather to kiss your wounds, No prince to turn your pain into pleasure, no architect to answer your ramblings and no blood god to avenge you. It is only you and I and I am your oblivion.” Sons of malice terminator speech upon the execution of a Word Bearers Chaplin. FanMade love your work Wes, For the renegade god, never forgotten.
"Malice is not one of the lost primarchs. Quit asking."
Valid opinion, but one of the most popular theories about the primarchs is that they are vessels for "minor" warp entities, the sacred number of Malice is eleven, and the eleventh primarch is one of the lost ones...
All this does is confirm... There is always a bigger fish. This was a fun deep dive!
The greatest trick Malal ever played, was convincing the world that he did not exist
I ran a Rogue Trader campaign years ago, with the center-piece of the story revolving around Malal. While I was writing up the story arc and researching the god, it seemed that he fell out of favor in the lore because the other gods basically already covered what Malal did. The one bit that I think they missed was the root of the Chaos God, Malice. The very emotion of Malice puts it at odds with the other chaos gods. It's envy, revenge, jealousy and at their core represents pure chaos, no plans, no allies, just a desire to watch the plans of others blow up in their faces. I used it as a reason to why so many battles that chaos was winning, suddenly failed. The fall of Horus wasn't because the gods he worshiped or even that he flew too close to the sun by challenging the emperor, but because (in my campaign) Malal interfered, ever so slightly, but it was enough to throw Horus off his game for a split second. I had a plague hijacked by Malal that was reeking havoc across a planet that was fighting off a Nurgle plague, so we had filthy plague creatures fighting one another while the Imperials killed all of them... yeah... that was a fun game. I hope we get some more, and better RPG books for a better unified 40k world...