Orvis tippet knot? I have used it but prefer the ones I was using. That by no means is the only way. If that knot works for ya, have at it! Thanks for watching
An all around trout leader that I've used for over 35 years is: 3' of .019 then 2.5' of .015 then 2' of .013, then tie on a select tipped of 12 to 16" . I never change my leader ... only the tippet. Over time I've had to replace the .013 section to get the length of the leader back. This formula was given to me by Ruel Stayner of Twin Falls, Id almost 40 years ago. This leader places the fly where I want it go, whether fishing a dry or a nymph.
@@greenhornflyhorn you're going to laugh. I use Dai Riki that I bought over 35 years ago from the old Dan Bailey Fly Shop in Livingston, MT. Anything will work as long as the butt section is fairly stiff. The stuff I use is clear, not colored. I use that leader on tail waters, freestone rivers and spring creeks.
I am new to fly fishing. Started tying to have fun and save money. How often should we change out fly line? I salt water fish and fresh water fish. Purchased a salt fly rod, but have not used it yet, but look forward to it. Fun to watch your channel. Hope you grow. You are passionate. Old Chief, Texas
Welcome to Fly Fishing!! It’s a bunch of fun. Fly lines can last awhile! I have had some last 3 seasons!! But when they start to crack it’s done. Some last longer than others and it’s a case by case type situation. I hope that helps👍
Mine on my 4wt trout rod is 10 years old, with some seasons of very heavy use, and alway in tough cover. Ive never even swapped it around to use the other end. Keep it out of the sun and heat.
Thanks for the great vid, they're super clear and helpful! How would you switch this up if you were tying a nymph and/or streamer leader? Also, when do you retire your leaders and tie up new ones?
Hi- great video. But I have a couple questions. For the butt section, how did you determine the lengths(unequal) of 20# and 15# segments to make up the 64” total length? Why just two sections, and not three (20#,#18,#15)? Unlike the butt section, the tapered section was split into three equal lengths. Thanks!
I went with the 60/20/20 forumla. Where 60% is butt section/20%taper/tippet. The butt section needed better turnover so it was made up of the 64" of two materials. This is a dry fly leader and needed to dissipate the energy quickly so it falls gently onto the surface of the water. I will go over more of these leaders as the playlist progresses. But hopefully this clears the air.
I ask myself the same question!! I think its because it has this stiffness yet delicateness that I just can't get with UG. Also I find chameleon loses its memory with a gentle tug(way nicer than UG imo). Finally, I like the old school maroon colour. I will say, that going all UG on the leader would be fine too but would be using that on a 4wt. George Harvey made the switch later in his years to more supple floppy leader material and he knew way more than I ever will. So there's that! Thank you for watching
@@greenhornflyhorn Harvey leaders were supposed to be tied with the stiff stuff. Interesting to hear how that worked out. I tie with whatever I have on hand because I have never really seen a big difference. I use a lot of fluorescent shooting line where the color is an asset, and love how it straightens.
Two quick questions 1) Why wouldn’t you use the Surgeon’s Knot for each connection? 2) I noticed that you didn’t wet any of your knots. Was it simply not videoed or do you feel you don’t need them? Thank you for both the video and your time.
1) the larger diameter(above 3x) i always use blood knots as i like the holding strength better than triple surgeons. Also, i like how it goes through the guides easier when stringing up, less bulky. 2) i always wet my knots but I may have done it off camera or sometimes I won’t wet them due to lighting for the camera(too shiny and can blow out the exposure of my camera). Hope that helps and ask any questions at any time🙂
You can use them, but they are ugly in heavier sections, and tend not to be straight. The key is to use differential wraps in blood knots, like 5-4, or 4-3. This allows the BKs to draw up really smooth. I do sometimes use a surgeon's knot in the tippet, I am comfortable tying BKs, but they do get fussy in the small stuff. I was watching a tarpon leader video the other day, and the guide was doing BKs that were 2-1 wraps, because the mono was so heavy. I never worry too much about breaking strength. With today's materials, there is usually far more strength in the rig that what a trout rod will break. If you are worried about breaking fish off, try tying your leader to a fixed object, and then working it with a deep bend and with a shallow bend. If you are breaking knots, then maybe rethink some of the knot choices. But for my money I am looking at clean leader runs; a leader that breaks at the fly, for ethical reason; and enough strength to land fish with the best chance for their survival. The 4 pound record for tarpon is almost 120 pounds, so trout are not much of a problem.
@@HondoTrailsidedid you just write that a 120 tarpon was caught on 4lb line? I must know more. I've called ght some pretty big fish on 2 and 4 lb line, but nothing anywhere near that size! Maybe 8-9 lbs. Ive been busted off by some fish that I saw, that were maybe 1 lb but fiesty
As a fairly new angler i have a few questions about this techinque: 1. Why do it when you can buy tapered leaders online? 2. Wont so many knots make the diy leader weaker than a regular tapered leader one can buy online?
Hey there! Thanks for taking a look at the video. Here are your answers below: 1. It’s really about customization! Making your own leader means you make the leader fit your exact fly line/fly rod and casting style. Also, it’s great because you can make a few adjustments and make it work for any technique! With store bought leaders they’re kinda a “one size fits most” type deal. 2. It really depends here. But an extruded one piece leader in theory should be stronger than a knotted leader. I believe it’s splitting hairs really but this to each their own. In summary, it’s just a great technique and skill to know how to build your own leader. The more you get into fly fishing the more you will narrow your preferences. Try it out and see how you like it. It’s never a bad idea to know the basics of leader construction 🙂
I think the 1-piece extruded leaders on the market are just fine for most fly anglers, just don't cheap out on leaders. The leader is the most important part of your gear. Knowing how to build a leader by hand is a great skill to have because you may get into a situation where you may need something different, but the average guy fishing a couple times a month and does not have a lot of time to sit and build leaders, let alone practice blood knots, is probably not going to build great leaders no matter how much he tries. Buying some different leaders from a fly shop will give you what you need. Store them properly and get some corresponding tippet material spools and some sort of leader wallet and you're set. You will have to add or change tippet no matter what so learn the triple surgeon's knot and go fishing. I just really dont have the time or interest in tying leaders so I buy what I need. This isn't 1924 after all.
@@jamescooper2618well said. Often, I can DIY better, or cheaper, and sometimes even better AND cheaper. Many times, I think, "I could do that, or I could do something else more interesting and useful.". I have too many hobbies as it is. If I have free time, I'm going fishing, not tying leaders. That said, here I am, learning the basics, because I have found myself on the river with a broken leader and no replacement. Tight lines, brothers!
It's not that critical.l prefer Furling one BS into 2 & 4 strands 12 lbs Florocarbon. I use Suffix. Double Uni is better than blood for Single strands. The lefty Kreah leader knot is simple and quick.
Maybe I missed it in this video or the other one. But would you change the butt section diameter for different weight rods/fly lines? Like would your start with a different diameter butt section for a 4wt vs a 6wt?
Hey there, So i briefly go over it when I talk about the "bell curve" with the butt section. But I go over it in greater detail in the first video(linked below). It is the section where I talk about the butt section and how it should be the same flexibility as the end of your fly line. I also show how two different materials yielded different results. It's a great example of how it's important to match the flexibility. Hope this helps and wish you good luck out there.
I have found that for most fly lines, I use 25 lb butt for 3 wt rods, 30 lb butt for 4-6 wt rods, and then jump up to 40 lb butt for 7 or 8 wt and above. Might be some exceptions and check the stiffness test, but this is a basic guideline. Also, you can try the Lefty Kreh formula where the lengths of each section are halved towards the tippet (28” of 30 lb, 14” of 20 lb, 7” of 15 lb, etc). Lots of formulas available on the internet. And if you make a lot of leaders, get the bigger 250 or 300 yd spools of each strength, that’s cheaper in the long run versus buying the tippet-sized spools.
@@barry4fish19 Thanks. I recently just made my first leader. Mostly as a nymphing leader. I ended up going with just 3' of 15# Chameleon, 3' of 10# Chameleon, 3' of 2x Flouro to a microswivel. And then I tie on whatever tippet is appropriate for the situation. I am sure it could be improved but it seems to work pretty good. For a dry fly leader I could see using a heavy butt section to get more of a taper.
Gary Borger has some very cool ideas on leaders, and he will get very specific, but for his non-harvey leaders, he uses 20 thou for everything up to and including 7 wt. That said, leaders are something where it pays to experiment. Think of your favourite flies, say a 14 Adams, and a 6 Woolly Bugger. It will really pay off to figure out what specific leader works perfectly with your best flies. Run some tests. Extremes like a really heavy nymph, or a really wind resistant bass bug, will require very different approaches. A really heavy nymph can be thrown past the end of the fly line. If you can toss it 10 feet by hand it could have a 6 pound spider wire leader. But a really extreme bass bug might need something like a heavy flat butt leader. If you were a 14 Adams person, then it would pay to work up a Harvey leader that was perfect with that fly. So at some point run your own tests. It saves a lot of time.
I'm having a horrible time finding a Maxima leader tying kit. That seems like a more economical way to get started with this rather than buying each one individually. But it seems like everyone everywhere is out of stock or just doesn't carry the kit anymore. Has anyone seen these kits? Is everyone just buying by the spool?
Bad idea, money wise. They contain far too many spools. Borger is a pretty technical fisherman, particularly with his leaders. He uses a formula were you start with your butt, usually 20 thou on trout stuff, and then you drop down to 65 percent. So from 20 thou, you go to 13 thou, from 13 you go to 8.5 (9). You don't need all those diameters in the kit. That was old school where they would use 10 different diameters, and end up with a lot of weed catching knots. Though, if you find a kit at the right price, it could still work out for you.
Maxima Chameleon is the bomb. Been tying up my own with it for over 30 years. Great stuff.
Been using it all my life! Absolutely love maxima! Thanks for stopping by🙂
Another good knot to use at the connections is the orvis knot. It finishes like the blood knot.
Orvis tippet knot? I have used it but prefer the ones I was using. That by no means is the only way. If that knot works for ya, have at it! Thanks for watching
Easy to understand tutorial. And yeah 60/20/20 is a good rule of thumb
An all around trout leader that I've used for over 35 years is: 3' of .019 then 2.5' of .015 then 2' of .013, then tie on a select tipped of 12 to 16" . I never change my leader ... only the tippet. Over time I've had to replace the .013 section to get the length of the leader back. This formula was given to me by Ruel Stayner of Twin Falls, Id almost 40 years ago. This leader places the fly where I want it go, whether fishing a dry or a nymph.
I love leader formulas so I will give it a go! What leader material do you prefer?
@@greenhornflyhorn you're going to laugh. I use Dai Riki that I bought over 35 years ago from the old Dan Bailey Fly Shop in Livingston, MT. Anything will work as long as the butt section is fairly stiff. The stuff I use is clear, not colored. I use that leader on tail waters, freestone rivers and spring creeks.
Not wordy informative. Detailed. Thank you!
I am new to fly fishing. Started tying to have fun and save money. How often should we change out fly line? I salt water fish and fresh water fish. Purchased a salt fly rod, but have not used it yet, but look forward to it. Fun to watch your channel. Hope you grow. You are passionate. Old Chief, Texas
Welcome to Fly Fishing!! It’s a bunch of fun. Fly lines can last awhile! I have had some last 3 seasons!! But when they start to crack it’s done. Some last longer than others and it’s a case by case type situation. I hope that helps👍
Mine on my 4wt trout rod is 10 years old, with some seasons of very heavy use, and alway in tough cover. Ive never even swapped it around to use the other end.
Keep it out of the sun and heat.
Thanks for the great vid, they're super clear and helpful!
How would you switch this up if you were tying a nymph and/or streamer leader?
Also, when do you retire your leaders and tie up new ones?
All great questions and I will be covering that in the next video on leaders! Appreciate you watching and good luck out on the water!
Hi- great video. But I have a couple questions. For the butt section, how did you determine the lengths(unequal) of 20# and 15# segments to make up the 64” total length? Why just two sections, and not three (20#,#18,#15)? Unlike the butt section, the tapered section was split into three equal lengths. Thanks!
I went with the 60/20/20 forumla. Where 60% is butt section/20%taper/tippet. The butt section needed better turnover so it was made up of the 64" of two materials. This is a dry fly leader and needed to dissipate the energy quickly so it falls gently onto the surface of the water. I will go over more of these leaders as the playlist progresses. But hopefully this clears the air.
Maxima chameleon vs ultragreen? Any reason why you like that more?
I ask myself the same question!! I think its because it has this stiffness yet delicateness that I just can't get with UG. Also I find chameleon loses its memory with a gentle tug(way nicer than UG imo). Finally, I like the old school maroon colour. I will say, that going all UG on the leader would be fine too but would be using that on a 4wt. George Harvey made the switch later in his years to more supple floppy leader material and he knew way more than I ever will. So there's that! Thank you for watching
@@greenhornflyhorn Harvey leaders were supposed to be tied with the stiff stuff. Interesting to hear how that worked out. I tie with whatever I have on hand because I have never really seen a big difference. I use a lot of fluorescent shooting line where the color is an asset, and love how it straightens.
Two quick questions 1) Why wouldn’t you use the Surgeon’s Knot for each connection? 2) I noticed that you didn’t wet any of your knots. Was it simply not videoed or do you feel you don’t need them? Thank you for both the video and your time.
1) the larger diameter(above 3x) i always use blood knots as i like the holding strength better than triple surgeons. Also, i like how it goes through the guides easier when stringing up, less bulky.
2) i always wet my knots but I may have done it off camera or sometimes I won’t wet them due to lighting for the camera(too shiny and can blow out the exposure of my camera).
Hope that helps and ask any questions at any time🙂
You can use them, but they are ugly in heavier sections, and tend not to be straight. The key is to use differential wraps in blood knots, like 5-4, or 4-3. This allows the BKs to draw up really smooth. I do sometimes use a surgeon's knot in the tippet, I am comfortable tying BKs, but they do get fussy in the small stuff. I was watching a tarpon leader video the other day, and the guide was doing BKs that were 2-1 wraps, because the mono was so heavy.
I never worry too much about breaking strength. With today's materials, there is usually far more strength in the rig that what a trout rod will break. If you are worried about breaking fish off, try tying your leader to a fixed object, and then working it with a deep bend and with a shallow bend. If you are breaking knots, then maybe rethink some of the knot choices. But for my money I am looking at clean leader runs; a leader that breaks at the fly, for ethical reason; and enough strength to land fish with the best chance for their survival. The 4 pound record for tarpon is almost 120 pounds, so trout are not much of a problem.
@@HondoTrailsidedid you just write that a 120 tarpon was caught on 4lb line? I must know more.
I've called ght some pretty big fish on 2 and 4 lb line, but nothing anywhere near that size! Maybe 8-9 lbs. Ive been busted off by some fish that I saw, that were maybe 1 lb but fiesty
As a fairly new angler i have a few questions about this techinque:
1. Why do it when you can buy tapered leaders online?
2. Wont so many knots make the diy leader weaker than a regular tapered leader one can buy online?
Hey there! Thanks for taking a look at the video. Here are your answers below:
1. It’s really about customization! Making your own leader means you make the leader fit your exact fly line/fly rod and casting style. Also, it’s great because you can make a few adjustments and make it work for any technique! With store bought leaders they’re kinda a “one size fits most” type deal.
2. It really depends here. But an extruded one piece leader in theory should be stronger than a knotted leader. I believe it’s splitting hairs really but this to each their own.
In summary, it’s just a great technique and skill to know how to build your own leader. The more you get into fly fishing the more you will narrow your preferences. Try it out and see how you like it. It’s never a bad idea to know the basics of leader construction 🙂
I think the 1-piece extruded leaders on the market are just fine for most fly anglers, just don't cheap out on leaders. The leader is the most important part of your gear. Knowing how to build a leader by hand is a great skill to have because you may get into a situation where you may need something different, but the average guy fishing a couple times a month and does not have a lot of time to sit and build leaders, let alone practice blood knots, is probably not going to build great leaders no matter how much he tries. Buying some different leaders from a fly shop will give you what you need. Store them properly and get some corresponding tippet material spools and some sort of leader wallet and you're set. You will have to add or change tippet no matter what so learn the triple surgeon's knot and go fishing. I just really dont have the time or interest in tying leaders so I buy what I need. This isn't 1924 after all.
@@jamescooper2618well said.
Often, I can DIY better, or cheaper, and sometimes even better AND cheaper. Many times, I think, "I could do that, or I could do something else more interesting and useful.".
I have too many hobbies as it is. If I have free time, I'm going fishing, not tying leaders. That said, here I am, learning the basics, because I have found myself on the river with a broken leader and no replacement.
Tight lines, brothers!
Hey can you print out the formula. The screen is so fast i dont have time to read. Im 90 and cannot read that fast. Thanks
It's not that critical.l prefer Furling one BS into 2 & 4 strands 12 lbs Florocarbon. I use Suffix. Double Uni is better than blood for Single strands. The lefty Kreah leader knot is simple and quick.
I understand. I don’t have a printed version but!! If you pause the screen you can screenshot the formula on your phone or tablet. Hope that helps🙂
@@greenhornflyhorn He means type it out in the transcript area below the video. That's actually a good idea for newbies
Maybe I missed it in this video or the other one. But would you change the butt section diameter for different weight rods/fly lines? Like would your start with a different diameter butt section for a 4wt vs a 6wt?
Hey there, So i briefly go over it when I talk about the "bell curve" with the butt section. But I go over it in greater detail in the first video(linked below). It is the section where I talk about the butt section and how it should be the same flexibility as the end of your fly line. I also show how two different materials yielded different results. It's a great example of how it's important to match the flexibility. Hope this helps and wish you good luck out there.
I have found that for most fly lines, I use 25 lb butt for 3 wt rods, 30 lb butt for 4-6 wt rods, and then jump up to 40 lb butt for 7 or 8 wt and above. Might be some exceptions and check the stiffness test, but this is a basic guideline. Also, you can try the Lefty Kreh formula where the lengths of each section are halved towards the tippet (28” of 30 lb, 14” of 20 lb, 7” of 15 lb, etc). Lots of formulas available on the internet. And if you make a lot of leaders, get the bigger 250 or 300 yd spools of each strength, that’s cheaper in the long run versus buying the tippet-sized spools.
@@barry4fish19 Thanks. I recently just made my first leader. Mostly as a nymphing leader. I ended up going with just 3' of 15# Chameleon, 3' of 10# Chameleon, 3' of 2x Flouro to a microswivel. And then I tie on whatever tippet is appropriate for the situation. I am sure it could be improved but it seems to work pretty good. For a dry fly leader I could see using a heavy butt section to get more of a taper.
Gary Borger has some very cool ideas on leaders, and he will get very specific, but for his non-harvey leaders, he uses 20 thou for everything up to and including 7 wt. That said, leaders are something where it pays to experiment. Think of your favourite flies, say a 14 Adams, and a 6 Woolly Bugger. It will really pay off to figure out what specific leader works perfectly with your best flies. Run some tests. Extremes like a really heavy nymph, or a really wind resistant bass bug, will require very different approaches. A really heavy nymph can be thrown past the end of the fly line. If you can toss it 10 feet by hand it could have a 6 pound spider wire leader. But a really extreme bass bug might need something like a heavy flat butt leader. If you were a 14 Adams person, then it would pay to work up a Harvey leader that was perfect with that fly. So at some point run your own tests. It saves a lot of time.
I'm having a horrible time finding a Maxima leader tying kit. That seems like a more economical way to get started with this rather than buying each one individually. But it seems like everyone everywhere is out of stock or just doesn't carry the kit anymore. Has anyone seen these kits? Is everyone just buying by the spool?
Bad idea, money wise. They contain far too many spools. Borger is a pretty technical fisherman, particularly with his leaders. He uses a formula were you start with your butt, usually 20 thou on trout stuff, and then you drop down to 65 percent. So from 20 thou, you go to 13 thou, from 13 you go to 8.5 (9). You don't need all those diameters in the kit. That was old school where they would use 10 different diameters, and end up with a lot of weed catching knots. Though, if you find a kit at the right price, it could still work out for you.
How about making the simple confusing. Some use a 1,000 words when 100 will do. Awful
Please send complaints to upper management!!! I can’t help you unfortunately, 😞
Let me fix that for you: "Wordy and confusing, bad".
I don't agree, but you sure did run on about it.