GR Research LGK 2.0 DIY kit Speaker Review
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 มิ.ย. 2022
- Review and detailed measurements of the GR Research Little Giant Killer Speaker Kit build. Listening tests are also included.
Review and discussion at: www.audiosciencereview.com/fo...
Music track: Claire Martin / Too Much In Love To Care
• Claire Martin / Too Mu... - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
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A lot of repeated questions. Here some answers:
1. Speaker was built with padding in it (which was NOT supplied in the kit). The corners were also rounded over (the flatpack did not come that). Please see the build thread: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/build-of-gr-research-lgk-2-0-speaker.33479/
2. Speaker was Not over driven. Listening tests were performed at 75 to 82 dBSPL at listening position. Company is confusing measurements which were performed at 86 and 90 dBSPL with listening tests. The two are not the same.
3. Distortion is the main problem in this speaker. So the comment about why one speaker is used instead of two is non sequitur. Research also conclusively shows that impairments in speakers can be best heard in mono, not stereo. Please see my video on that with full research back up: th-cam.com/video/7kDr0vEdfhY/w-d-xo.html
4. Company has provided two test clips that were captured using thousands of dollars of subwoofers augmenting these small speakers and with an in-line filter. No one is buying speakers for desktop use with that kind of setup. And at any rate, that is no counter for my testing which did accord with how the speaker gets used.
5. Distortion testing of speakers is absolutely valid. The proof is this speaker. Measurements predicted horrible levels of distortion. Listening Tests provided the same.
6. Video includes audio clip that starts at very low level and goes to moderately loud. You can hear the distortion there easily. So you can ignore all the measurements and see the problem clearly.
7. First version of this speaker seems to have used a driver with larger excursion of 2.5 mm. In this version, that is shrunk down to just 1 mm. Yet the driver is pushed to produce bass well below 100 Hz. Physics simply doesn't allow this. Simulation shows that you can't go below 200 Hz without exceeding 1mm excursion.
8. I did apply a high-pass to the speaker in my review. It did improve power handling but there was still distortion. And now you had no bass either. You are potentially paying over $1000 for this speaker. Surely for that kind of money you want to have your bass too.
9. This review is not a reflection on the company as a whole. I tested their Encore XLS kit and gave it a thumbs up. I also just tested the mod of Klipsch RPM-600M and gave it another thumbs up. Please see: th-cam.com/video/-eWnYAgiMwQ/w-d-xo.html
10. While the company has been very unprofessional in its interactions with me (and other reviewers as well), I go about my testing without emotion or prejudice. The bulk of my review comprises of objective measurements that is not subject to whim of the reviewer. Those tests show good frequency response but horrible distortion. Me pointing this out (and confirm with listening tests/clips) doesn't mean I have an agenda against the company. It simply are facts that I can not and will not sugar coat. Company needs to redesign this speaker and make it performant. Customers deserve that.
How about that waterfall????????
"Padding"?
GR Research always pads their speakers to keep them safe.
Get a life… gr research does quality research fully FULLY explained.. too many wannabies
@@johnnorris1983 You do realize that the target of my sarcasm was ASR and not GR . ..
@@johnnorris1983 🤦♂
Maybe KEF or B&W could make an upgrade kit .
ROFLOL...
BURNNNN😁👏
Haha 🤣
Lol!
Hahaha
I enjoy watching GR research, especially his videos that cover the before and after response and waterfall graphs of his upgrade projects. With that said, it's apparent that he subscribes to a remarkable amount of mysticism with regard to components like capacitors, inductors, wire, insulation, connectors, etc. The fact that he refers to the scientific community who question his unproven mysticism as "flat earthers" is an irony that is hard to digest. Keep up the good work!
That irony is nothing short of delicious.
Danny isn't adverse to making a buck when he can.
So, is CLIO somthing that mystics use?
@@ryan8773There are plenty of people in this world who subscribe to elements of both science and mysticism. Most people on earth are religious, yet are capable of using instruments of science. That doesn't make the instrument of science a form of mysticism, is just makes humans the ironic hypocrites that we always are.
Yes, I enjoy them too. Especially to see what snake oil they come up with. Very amazing.
Thank you! It's the same old endless story with Danny and GR Research, he's always a day late, a dollar short, and nobody is qualified to judge his level of perfection aside from him! Here in the real world, thankfully, we have some folks like you with the tools and the talent. We know which way is north, regardless of what Danny want's us to believe. Cheers 🍻
Not believing in DSP lol. Not poo-pooing good passive xo's but correcting in digital then DAC to monoblocks to drivers with nothing in between is ideal
WRONG .... All you need are his special binding posts ....
Pirate site..
GR( No dash) research
Not Danny
You Sir are providing a fantastic service to audiophiles. I consider myself such an audiophile but I am completely sick of hearing how power cables improve sound when there are miles of cheap cables behind house walls. Speaker cables as thick as garden hose and costing many thousands of pounds even though they carry a tiny signal to the speakers. Audiophile fuses, RF interference, it’s all complete nonsense and I applaud your efforts to debunk these ridiculous claims. Many thanks.
it's how ridiculous those Audiophiles use thick ass power cables and speaker cables, meanwhile the connection wires is thin as fuk in their luxury Amps, plus copper layers measure in mil in PCB.
I agree with with you except I would re-word "cheap cables behind house walls". These cables are highly government regulated in both design and installation not to mention the manufacturer makes tons of profit on them due to economy of scales. On the other hand if you have a bi-terminal speakers and you find the highs to bright, use an enough smaller gauge wire on the high side it may sound better due to the wire resistance... or add a resister or capacitor or both in series outside like I do sometimes.
Don't forget the cryogenically frozen speaker cable raisers!
@@vdochev 😂
There's also meters of wires in the coils in the crossover and other components to traverse before the signal even gets to the voice-coil. The charlatans are the worst part of this hobby but ASR reveals all in the best possible way.
Thank you for another interesting review! I’m really glad you are enhancing your ASR forum reviews with videos. Your personality comes across much more and the info you are sharing is much easier to digest when presented this way. Well done!
I’ve watched dozens of GR Research videos and tear downs. I’m seriously into audio and hifi. I’m not an audio technician, but have a scientific background and logical. Watching people with superior knowledge to myself, is a good way to learn and widen my knowledge. GR Research, is fortunately not my only information or reference source, if it were, I would develop a very distorted opinion of speaker manufacturers and hifi reviewers. I have watched so many of Danny’s videos that I’ve become accustomed to his manor and warmed to him, slightly. That doesn’t alter the fact that I find him smug, patronising, arrogant and elitist.
This video was, unquestionably, brilliant. You totally dismantled Danny’s legitimacy with no hint of mal -intent.
I applaud your style of presentation and general attitude toward the science, measurements and psycho-acoustics which influence this topic. Keep up the good work.
Interestingly enough. I recently watched a GR Research video, where Danny, had invited, I think, Ronny from New Record Day to visit his facility in Texas and listen to Danny’s ultimate??? Near perfect??? Set up. They were both highly critical of ‘box speakers’. They were singing the praises of ‘panel speakers’. Proclaiming that once you had experienced the virtues of panel speakers, you would never go back to box speakers. Yet, here is Danny, designing and marketing box speakers. Ronny has made many rave reviews of box speakers. Perhaps Ronny should quit the cannabis, stop sucking up to Danny and they should both take a reality check and ‘put their money where their mouths are’.
Enjoy the music.
These "buddy videos" clearly show how much of a "team sport" marketing hype is!
Ron's reviews are high-fi? Very perceptive.
@@sloboat55 👍
This is pretty easy to explain for better or worse.
Its a smaller speaker and needs the cabinet.
Open baffle is great but the drivers need more surface area
🍻👍
Speaker design is well understood. Pumping power below 50Hz into a tiny driver is asking for trouble. There is no magic fix that can defeat the Laws of Physics.
But there are areas of physisc which are not at general agenda. At least I never heard . But I often use them in my actual speakers and they work perfect.
. In 1982 I've made my own "try" to make nice sounding speaker cabinet with not so small as presented but also one 12 cm dia and 8W driver. Cheap and surprisingly good for developed by me ported box. I think already 12cm did enough bass job. It was supported by tweeter in serial connection and I used serial coil as tweeter filter to prevent phase game so it had slop for sopranos. Easy regained with tone control .
Also I got in market active cheap speakers for PC and I was very happy with size /result (10cm dia) . For reason of (I think) separate small beautifull cone tweeter the sopranos were not affected by bass. Unfortunately filtered by capacity -another little flaw. . .They both didn't last for me for main reson - low range was not enough tight - as usual with ported. Now I use elyptic speaker only 20cm/15cm with acoustic very different from used around and it prevents intermodulations while low tones are as flat as anyone can ask. to very bottom
There is a way to cleverly 'bend' the "Laws" - use a small driver (check), with a stiff suspension (small Vas and high-ish Fs) and moderately high Qts, in a 'big' box (relative to Vas) and you can tune a small speaker to have deep measured bass response below Fs, at the expense of some 'boomy' character, by using the bass reflex port to provide high output over a wide range. You can play with a speaker's parameters in a program like WinISD to show this - the box larger than Vas will cause a peak near the tuning frequency, and increasing Qts will fill in the 'saddle' that appears. The suspension stiffness of the speaker will keep excursion relatively well under control. The thing that keeps everyone from doing this is that it does not provide optimal damping and the 'boomy' character is undesirable to many listeners. I learned of this method by reverse-engineering some of the Bose spare-tire subwoofers that use small 135mm woofers so the spare tire screw will not need to be installed through the middle of the speaker.
You CAN get below 50Hz with 4" driver with well designed Box, well designed Driver is needed too.
Said the reviewer already.
You need to use Danny's oxygen free cables to clear up the distortion. 🤣🤣🤣
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Exactly. Lol
And the special terminals that no other company uses. Takes it up a whole nother level.
I agree .... People underestimate how amazing they are .....I fitted some to my epos es14 speakers and could not believe my ears ...
cable risers
We expect nothing less than your honesty. This only shows your not biased. You let the science speak for itself. This is why Audio Science review is so highly rated! We can't afford you going soft on any product you review. I like your brutal honesty! I expect it! If something you suggest is worthy of your praise. We know It passed rigorous inspections, and tests. TY! Amir Majidimehr!
Oh, you are very kind. :)
I echo these comments. I'd just add that I would not call the honesty here "brutal." We seem to live in an age when any criticism is seen as harsh or nasty or brutal. Honesty is a show of respect -- you believe the other person wants to hear the truth and will either respond to it or have the humility to accept it and correct their ways. To me, brutal honesty is when it is served up with a side-dish of ad hominem nastiness, which Amir avoided assiduously.
He overdrove the speakers beyond their intended capacity. How is that honest?
Only an idiot would use a 3" driver full range
Just a quick glance at the 3" driver tells you this is not a hi fi speaker
General comment about all your reviews. Thanks for putting science at the heart of your reviews. I’m sick of nonsense that out there regarding hifi and you put facts that’s demonstrable with your reviews. Audiophiles are almost “religious” in there beliefs about hifi and your analysis is refreshing.
Thank you kindly. In advance of every review I search for others. I am amazed how much fluff is out there. Video after video, text write up after text write up with poetry and music album discography with nothing substantial to validate any of it.
The best response to this would be, thanks for the great review, we will be improving the model under Amirs advice. Thats how to take ego out of the equation, and get back to basics, and that's making good sound. Lets see what happens. Great review Amir.
Well said. He now has comprehensive measurement that costs thousands of dollars if an agency had done it for him. He can focus then on improving the design and possibly have a winner.
@@AudioScienceReview
Agreed. If Danny really wanted to back up his wild claims regarding the capabilities of these speakers, he would send them to Warkwyn or Redrock Acoustics on his own and provide all of the data to us so he could say, "see, the measurements don't lie, and these results are from an indepenent lab".
But we all know that will never happen AND that these little drivers are incapable of producing decent sound at even average expected output levels.
And thankfully, you provided all the measurements that Danny never would...along with a real-world audio sample...and out of your own pocket to boot!
Good on ya! 👍
I'm a bit ashamed but I'll admit, I was initially taken by Danny. I could have even still forgiven most of the issues including if he chose to not send you anything for review, that is his right but to be so offensive toward you and all because he is butt hurt that he is being found out. That's the biggest issue, the next big problem I have is him constantly preaching his brains out about parts quality and then sends out the literal worst looking inductor I've ever seen and being nothing less than very deceptive in his measurements. What is wrong with this geriatric clown, does he think it's still the 1980's? From the bottom of my heart Amir, I appreciate you taking your extremely qualified skills and time to contribute so immensely to this hobby. You single handedly changed this hobby for the better, the improvement to dacs, amps, speakers/headphones, and even reviewers that you have made will be appreciated and remembered for a very long time to come. You showed all of us the benefit of precise measurements and taught us so much, I sincerely thank you.
"What is wrong with this geriatric clown?" LOL LOL LOL
@@johnnyirizarry6489 always suspected that Danny is selling snake oil - now we have proof. But we all need to ask ourselves - if it sound wrong it usually is
You do PUBLIC SERVICE Amir. A self qualified guy saying you are not qualified to review his gear states the real knowledge that goes into most of today 'high-end' gear.
Thank you!!
Shots fired!! 😅
I have recently been frustrated with a group of audiophile youtubers who have clearly put profits before anything else.
Thanks for the informative video!
Totally with you. Jay -- the guy who only tests expensive stuff -- publicly exclaimed that negative reviews were a waste of time. Shows where he is in this game, eh?
It was either TH-cam or flipping burgers....
@@hilde45 Jay quoted someone else regarding negative reviews were waste of time, not his words. Jay talks negative all the time.
I watch Danny's upgrade videos, and keep an open mind.
My problem with them is that he often complains about the value for money proposition offered by the mainstream products.
I find it disingenuous. The telling factor is in this video. The jump in price to the finished product shows that there is a lot of overhead in a commercial product beyond just the speaker parts.
Things like marketing and warranty and dealership support, they don't come for free.
For sure all the expensive parts he throws at commercial designs makes many of the mods uneconomical. Now, if he provided objective proof for such things as binding posts, that would be one thing. But he is part-time vegetarian in that he uses measurements to say what is wrong, but not what is right.
Amir mentioned something very, very important but not so obvious. He mentioned why two-way or 3-way are better than one way full range. The keyword there is "Linear". All speakers are NOT linear devices. They are springs. So the movement/force relation are parabolic rather than linear. So when listening in low volume, the power input will produce more or less similar pattern of cone movement, and can reproduce the combined signals of high and low frequencies. But at high volume, the cone is pushed far away from the neutral position and it takes a larger force (power) to reproduce the high frequency. Or in Amir's word, the high frequency response is modulated by the low frequency and becomes a source of distortions.
Another reason full range speaker sucks at high frequency is the inertia of the cone. A 3 inch driver cone is so much heavier than a tweeter the inertia dampen the output of higher frequency input. 2-ways or 3-ways are the way to go.
Although you may have discussed it before, I appreciate the in depth reasoning and example you provided regarding your listening to only one speaker - - of course that other side of the coin of hearing a pair of speakers doesn't get assessed either - but I have a clearer understanding now - it's safe to say that one can't advance to 2nd and 3rd bass if one is already out at 1st. Thanks Amir.
Thanks for the great review and for tons of details. Good research deserves peer review, so I hope this ends up with a science-based response from GR Research.
I don’t get why there’s speaker companies that think their product is somehow beyond measurements.
Every other electronic product known to man can and is measured. Nobody in every other electronic product ever trust ONLY the company’s own measurements of a product they put out.
They think it will all be negative. I find testing really important to see what I don't notice too. Why try solve things you don't mind?
It's not good or bad it's just information but they want to charge 4 figures for an MDF slot port and fullrange - there are better drivers out there that don't need a filter
Currently "measurement standard" is not enough. Soundstage, details, layering cannot be measured but you heard them all the time. You can only measure component by component. Not a whole system. Beside the human factor, I mean people like 300B instead of class D liner performance. I had heard state of the art, but not everyone will like it.
@@kongwee1978 I'm sure sounds stage, details and layering can be somewhat measured when they quantify the correct parameters for that effect.
There's also the psychological aspects to this which can be missed by scientific review (can also be an advantage to miss this however). Many people also tend to miss their personal bias or mind and body condition effects on the listening experience
@@RennieAsh Yes can be measured, but not the Audio Precision APx555 as standard. There are way more parameter to look at producing a product than testing an end product. Of course, tube designer place tube in first place and rest are second.
"there is a reason i listen to every speaker"
Bravo, because with speakers, measurements only go so far.
Thanks Amir for another in-depth review. I like tiny speakers. There are many choices for DIY full range. TangBand, Vifa, Foster, Peerless, Dayton, Scanpeak etc.. I DIY the TangBand W3-2141 (3 inch full range). Low frequency distortion is much better than GR's full range. After listening to the TangBand for a while, I feel fatigue listening to vocals. So I added a tiny external silk dome tweeter and cross at around 2.5khz. It is sounding much better now. Total cost $150/pair including the addition of tweeters and crossovers.
I am sure much better job can be had with a single driver. Hope to test more in the future.
@@AudioScienceReview The Mark Audio drivers get good reviews and I have seen versions used in open baffles too.
@@AudioScienceReview would be cool if Audience still sells the A3 full range driver. They were claiming some high excursion numbers
@@AudioScienceReview I think you are right. I was impressed by the older E J Jordan units, (and Ted Jordan contributed a lot to the science of speaker design in his lifetime - you can read some of his work in the old 'Wireless World', archived at 'World Radio History'). Hoewever, since his death a few years ago, the firm has gone all 'Audiophile', and the drivers are now out of my price range. You will always have range limits with single drivers, but the single point source can do a lot for stereo or ambisonic imaging.
I am a recent discovered of your channel, I love what you are doing. I stopped taking UK HiFi magazines in the first wave of subjectivism and am delighted to see a push back against it, especially now it has degenerated in a maze full of corrupt reviews and snake oil products.
Thank you for your excellent work.
Amir,
A very good analysis and summary. Thank you.
I have 25+ years of NVH experience from the auto industry from a major OEM, will check more of you content out.
Thank you so much John. Love to have technical people watching and reviewing what my content.
@John Shore
I'd love to learn more about your experience and knowledge regarding NVH and the research and product and solutions development and technques/implementation in this field.
It would be extremely enlightening if you were willing to have a conversation and potential video chat with Erin Hardison on his *Erin's Audio Corner* TH-cam channel.
Like Amir, Erin is another Objective Data-based tester and reviewer on TH-cam, but much of his background is in competition level or "High-End" aftermarket car audio systems that employ various aftermarket NVH products and multichannel DSP to improve the in-car music listening experience.
Erin also has a technical background from his "day job" as an engineer for NASA working on missile defense systems & testing.
@@bbfoto7248 My background is sound and vibration for car development MSc from Southampton ISVR.. Professionally mainly in intake and exhaust systems as noise ducts involving flow and temperatures (both noisy items on the power train).
With car hifi as such I have not had professional work experience but have been a keen audiophile since mid to late 80s.
@@AudioScienceReview Interestingly there is a GR research post today on these speakers, I suspect it is based on this assessment.
th-cam.com/video/nuRbq3YRRNs/w-d-xo.html
gr research needs to make an upgrade kit for the LGK 2.0 lmao
And replace all those "cheesey parts"
Maybe super size tube connectors or something like that.
Making the entire cabinet out of layers of Nores would obviously solve all issues.
GR's 15 minutes of 'fame'. This time not by Danny, lol.
The soundclips are a great addition to the measurements, appreciated!
Live by the sword - die by it .... His days are numbered..... hopefully we will see him flipping burgers soon ,.
Having viewed some of gr researches videos it is good to have my initial opinion confirmed. I have read many of your reviews so it is good to ffinally put a face to your name, Amir. Thanks for keeping it real.
Excellent scientific analysis. I could not hear the breakup quite as much on my Klipsch LaScallas using .. so intrigued I swapped amps using hi end Yamaha, Macintosh and Emotiva XBA. Each had slightly different sonic character as you would imagine but I think they would be good desktop monitor for streaming medical education courses I listen to, news and anything but music reproduction. I believe that’s what he designed for. Idk. Albeit expensive for that application. I have auditioned many single driver small monitors and have never considered them for even the smallest room with respect to musical fidelity. Personally not a fan of any small speakers to be honest. They sound… well. Small. Thanks for ur time in review
I have always agreed with you, Amir, that listening tests with one speaker are more revealing. Another engineer once showed me how to listen to instruments in a studio to place microphones. It requires you to plug one ear so you hear like the microphone does, including the 'room effects'. It was then, and remains today, a very helpful test in test listening. Listening to one speaker makes your hearing more analytical and reduces the distractions of stereo imaging.
My opinion remains constant regarding Danny: he is a tinkerer-for-profit, not an engineer. Compounding that, he seems powerfully inclined to believe in the products of his tinkering efforts. Folks with these attributes are never in short supply, especially in the HiFi industry. Another issue of character is that, when shown to be wrong, he doubles down on his misconclusions. Smart people see their errors and can change their thinking to better match reality.
Well said Jim. Add to that very insulting attitude toward anyone but himself. I just asked him for a sample of his speaker and he goes on and on about me having no idea how to test any speaker. Nothing about it was professional. He has to think he is standing on a very tall mountain to get away with this kind of conduct. As you say, he is a tinkerer that has stumbled in this field. The power of youtube is working in his favor as he is very good on the camera. Wish he would adopt preaching the right things in audio instead of what he is doing now....
@@AudioScienceReview Yes, Now he got found out. he is worried others would test his speaker
So he’s a flat earther, as he calls everyone. It either sounds great or it doesn’t. There’s no mystery to it.
I would not mind one speaker listening as a part of the review, but I surely want to know how they image as a pair. The soundstage is very important to me when I buy a product. More then a flat frequency response. I don’t mind a little colouration if done well. I don’t need to see off axis response tables if a reviewer can describe it in a few words. I usually don’t watch this channel to be honest. I don’t care much for all the measurements, I don’t say they aren’t important, but they don’t say everything. I only need to know about measurements if something is really off with a product, like the distortion mentioned in this review. I care more about how a set of speakers sounds, looks and it’s build quality. I miss the emotional part in this review style and that’s what music is about. Give me 10 different speakers that measures well but they all sound different. I want to hear a characterisation on how they sound. Yes it’s subjective, but music is a subjective experience and a matter of taste. It’s for me to decide if I trust someone’s subjective opinion. This scientific approach is a bit to dry for me. Still I can feel some respect for this channel. It’s appealing for a substantial group in the audio world. The reviewer feels genuine, fair and professional.
Danny is a very rude Mr. knows it all. I don’t think he’s very good at a camera at all. I don’t understand people fall for it when he claims his ugly, poor finished, over priced speakers outperform insane expensive speakers from the famous professional designers. His arrogant attitude really puts me off. Complete lack of social skills. His videos aren’t reviews, but only a promotion for his company. He’s even worse then the Cheap Audio Man who published videos in a rate that he can’t spend any real time with a product, who lacks intelligence and presentation style. It’s clear to many reviewers on TH-cam pumping out videos just to generate income. Both Danny’s are guilty of this.
Full range drivers, especially small ones like this have a lousy rep to begin with. KEF is the exception to the rule, but Danny would likely consider his superior due to the sonic clarity of his binding posts.
KEF is actually 2 driver setup, only concentric. Underrated comment though
Oh yes ,. His binding posts are so good no other design work is really needed
Anything other than his Tube Connectors are just "cheeeeesy" 😒
Just finished watching your video and i have to say... it's an eye opener, I was a fan of GR research, watch their videos and thought highly of them. I have no clue on hi fi speaker testing and what really makes a speaker sound better than others other that what ears tell me so I rely on the testing of those in the know. I'm glad i watched your video as it gives an honest unbiased opinion of what GR research claims which obviously would be biased! Thanks for the work you do! It is greatly appreciated!
yeah a lot of people probably over 80% don't like his so-called" upgrades" he never listens to them anyway, and then he goes on about other people not listening to his speakers 😂 a few companies have rejected his designs and gone with somebody else three I know of.
Thank you so much for all the great work you do!
It cannot be underestimated just how important your work is Amir. I finally found an audio science objective reviewer with a talented/trained ear for subjective relevance. I don't own your testing fixtures/equipment but will try and mimic your test procedures best I can with my limited test harness and software for my speaker testing. Thanks, I've learned much.
Oh, that is so nice to read. Thank you so much for kind words. Great to hear you also wanting to measure and evaluate products the same way.
Amir is phenomenal but Danny’s crossover kits do improve a lot of speakers. This giant killer is not good.
@@thepracticalaudiophile no they don't. They make it "different" yes. I've done the whole upgrade thing, bypass capacitors, all that, from GR. The only potential upgrade is you are putting more expensive parts in but it's nothing earth shattering. Money is better spent... on a better speaker!
@kimo lewis you actually stated the _opposite_ of what you intended.
if it "cannot be underestimated" then this means his work is of zero importance.
if you hold Amir's work in *the highest regard* then you would say,
'it cannot be overstated...'
@@thepracticalaudiophile From a speaker mod perspective, regular users only options are changing out the drivers and crossovers. Most mass produced speakers uses cheap crossovers and that's a fact. So Danny's crossover kits improve performance, I think that's a fair statement.
However, a good pair of speakers is a lot more than drivers and crossovers. The cabinet, bracing, port, interior space management, are often more important. Did you see the the B&W Nautilus series speakers?
So it is relatively easy to make improvements by changing the crossover. But making a great pair of speakers is very difficult.
At 11:45, what you are pointing to as a 'baffle step filter problem' is actually a more common issue with cone design, called "edge hole", which is due to a mechanical resonance in the surround or the very outer edge of the cone - as frequency increases, the surround (or edge) starts to whip up and down in-phase with the cone, causing a rise in energy, then it goes out of phase with the cone (causing a dip) before settling down. The purpose of the adhesive bead between the cone and the inner knee of the surround is to control this whipping tendency. It also exists in mid-bass speakers with wide and thin surrounds. It probably exists in this speaker because the cone and surround both have to be very thin and light, making them relatively flexible.
Interesting... thank you for that.
Could be shown with phase decomposition. I expect the exact issue that you mention.
The only true full range designs I've seen have been larger drivers 8" and up. When you showed the actual size of the driver I could've finished this review for you without 100k worth of equipment. There was no way that little cone moving in and out at 60-50-55hz wasn't going to negatively effect the midrange regardless of the box design. It's just a matter of pretty simple and easy to understand physics. Great review. I e been waiting for this since Danny decided to go on TH-cam and destroy his reputation by telling other reviewers they weren't ready to listen to his "special" speakers. Let's face it most of us don't listen to 50-60 different speakers in a year so if the reviewers weren't ready to listen to his speakers the average speaker buyer isn't going to ready to listen to his speakers. It was obvious to me he was hiding something and now we know what. Thanks again
That's right. Just one look at the speaker and you think: "this can't work." This is why interest was generated on ASR that Danny is claiming to have done the impossible. It was for that reason that I spend the money and labor to build his speaker to test. We now know that this speaker is even worse than it looks. It can't play distortion-free even with high frequency bass. I think you have to chop off up to 200 Hz or so to get it to produce any volume.
@@AudioScienceReview Which must even be too high for any reasonable subwoofer to cross over at
I crossed over my high end Dynaudio 5.25" drivers at 200hz , in a 3 way hybrid open baffle ....to use a 3" full range is beyond stupidity.. Danny may be full of false information, but he's not stupid , so why on earth did he make this ?
@@edwardbalboa5528 I just watched a video he made 2 months ago about this speaker. His measurements start at 200hz. And he says it's for only putting about 12 watts into it anymore and your overdriving the speaker and he pairs the speaker with a pair of subs that have 3 12" drivers in an open baffle. None of this makes any sense. I know he's not stupid but he seems to think this is a great midrange speaker. Then just sell it as a midrange driver don't tell people this is a stand alone speaker. It's not. It's literally a midrange driver (wideband) he even says it rolls off at the top end. It's literally a midrange driver. Considering he's a pretty good speaker designer he's really trashing his reputation by selling this piece of junk. It's almost $400 with the box and you have to put it together. It makes no sense
@@edwardbalboa5528 what's sad is if he just paired this with a 5-6" midbase it probably wouldn't be a problem. Who sells a speaker you can't turn up more than 80db? What world is this guy living in that he thought that was a good business decision. He's delusional
This was a great review . I am not a fan boy of you nor danny. Your review was very fair, honest and to the point with no fluff. Thank you for spending your money on this. No matter what Danny says or thinks about you, You are very fair and honest and many people are grateful for your desire to help us find great sound and not get ripped off by smart business men. Thank you once again!
Thanks, Amir. I've been wondering about GR Research, and now that I know they are very shy about other people measuring their products, I don't think I'll be buying any of their 'upgrade' kits. We can't trust GR's measurements for sure.
I just searched for the name of those speakers on TH-cam and sure there was a video from Danny about it. And lots of comments from people who seem to think the sun is shining out of his backside. Amazing!
He is such an excellent storyteller on youtube so people put aside all sensibility and believe.
@@AudioScienceReview Kind of amazing they do that -- the garble in the vocals was really easy to hear, I thought. I mean, if I order a steak and the restaurant serves me an old shoe, I'd hope I would notice. ;-)
@@AudioScienceReview good point , story teller / salesman…..
Does that generate ozone, or whats that smell 🙂
These kind of reviews and healthy scrutiny will (hopefully) make audio makers behave correctly and weed out the bad ones, and it is good for proper progress! Scientific approach is the future, there is no way around it!
What Amir does is not science.
@@scudder2010 well it looks like scientific review as far as im concerned!
@@eniojurko 🤣
I don’t know why the scientific approach would be the future when a product is designed to trigger an emotional subjective response. Music is all about emotion, subjectivity and taste in what the subject feels sounds good. A good measuring set of speakers can miss out completely on the tonal balance I like and I won’t mind a little colouration if done to my taste. Even a brand like Bose does it for millions of people who like exaggerated bass and little detail in the higher frequencies. Or Klipsch that design speakers that don’t measure very well, but appeals to many audio enthusiasts. Okay, it’s not what I like, but it has its place in the market. My taste is in more flat measuring speakers, but as said, I don’t mind a little colouration if done to my taste. I only see measurements in this review, but I don’t hear anything how these speakers image as a pair. You do know it’s about two channel listening, right? Why I don’t learn anything about stereo imaging, instrument separation, dept, centre image, etcetera. I don’t say measurements don’t matter, but there’s much more to audio quality then measurements only. And reviewing two channel audio by testing with only one speaker is more lacking to me then a reviewer who leaves out measurements but gives a characterisation on how a pair of speakers sounds.
@@leokuiper2593
Millions of people seem to like fast food and streetfood, containing large doses of fat, salt, glutamates and other additives. Measurements show the unhealthy doses of these ingredients and scientific research also explains why the average person falls for these unhealthy, 'boosted' snacks that are offered at every streetcorner. Research also shows the bad effect these products have on people's health, when consumed regularly. Now, if you don't care about your health and good cuisine, don't want to be informed and educated, but rather just ignorantly follow triggered impulses/stimuli, addictional behaviour and not develop taste, go ahead. But it has consequenses and we see these in an increased number of obese kids, and in hospitalised adults, etc.
Amir explained why he chooses to measure only one speaker's sound quality. He also commented on tonality. He also did a hearing test. So all aspects of this speaker are covered. The stereo test can mask the speaker's flaws a bit to the untrained ears. But a distorting speaker won't distort less in stereo. Why would you want that, if there are speakers who can deliver nice stereo and imaging over a fullrange frequency spectrum without this distortion, for a much lower price than the USD 1100 GR Research asks for these?
Thank you Amir for your in-depth research and analysis
Thanks Amir. I bought an A07 based on your review and was very pleased. I have since bought a 2 channel BasX.
Thank you for keeping manufacturers on their toes! Content like this will only increase the quality of available products.
Thank you for telling us what it is, and what it isn’t, we appreciate you Amir. I know the “hifi” community doesn’t 😂
Who the f...c cares about hi fi mumbo jumbo snobbish perfection ,just listen to the music and feed your souls with the happiness
@@PaulSerat pretty much stupid question 😄
@@PaulSerat few more comments and you'll be awarded with little giant killers 😄😄😄
@@PaulSerat nah,just ask your doctor to change your therapy 😄
Proper scientific smash for "mr perfect".
Thanks Amir 💪!
Thanks Amir, for me you are the number 1, audio expert out there. Please be nice and invite them over to learn from you how to build speakers.
mabey you should have used his speaker/power/interconnect cables, lol, excelent work as usual Amir.
Up to $1k(depending on cabinets and Sonicaps) for this 3" driver GARBAGE?
Ole' Richie is laughing all the way to the bank and screwing people by putting out videos of how his speakers are sooo much better than comparably priced commercial offerings.
Thank you Amir for pointing out just how bad this "Little Giant Killer" NONSENSE really is!
No wonder Richie didn't want you testing this overpriced trash and presenting the results...LOL.
Absolute garbage..... I suspect Danny is partially deaf
just had a look the new video on GR Research , regarding these ....in reply to a comment made that the LS50 is near perfect , Danny replied , and I quote :-. " @Haris Javed The LS50's can't approach the sound quality of these little drivers. "
iT WoN't sOuNd rIgHt UnLeSs yOu sPeNd tHe ExTrA $500 oN UpGrAdEd cApS aNd tUbE cOnNeCtOrS!
@Amir there is an invitation from Danny to have a listening session at his place. Maybe you should take it?
It is not free for me to get on a plane to go there. But he can entice me by performing a blind test of his cables. If he passes on video, then I will visit him to verify.
Thank you for the honesty. In engineering there are always trade offs. But this sounds like a case of “you can’t get there from here”. Tiny little drivers shouldn’t be asked to do the impossible. 🍻cheers!
That's it really. Now if an inexperienced hobbyist had come up with this, you could hang your hat on that. But for someone that tears down and complains about countless commercial speakers to produce something like this, just boggles the mind. I have to think he is not sensitive to distortion like many of us are to not have heard the serious deficiencies in that department. Even without that, he should have known what a 1mm excursion driver can or cannot do.
I have Revel M8 speakers for my surround speakers that I bought on sale after they were discontinued. They have 2 3" woofers and are ported and tuned to ~110 Hz and do fine at pretty high levels if crossed over at 120 Hz. But a single 3" tuned to 80 Hz or so isn't going to go very loud. If I bought speakers of that size I'd definitely want to have a HP filter of 120 Hz or higher on them.
Edit: I'd imagine these would sound a lot better as a 3 way crossed 3K to 4K to a tweeter and maybe 250ish to a larger woofer. That'd be a lot more expensive though, of course, and compromises abound at this price point.
@@gregsunderland6394 A good friend of mine likes to make 3” subs do crazy things. We’ve learned a lot building the wierd Nth Order band-pass boxes. It can be done but not with the full range variety. The driver just isn’t intend to play that low. 🍻
@@timealchemist7508 How'd they sound? I've never actually listened to any bp enclosures. How high can they be tuned and still sound reasonably good is one question I'd like to know. A 4th order bp with a range of 70 to 200 Hz or so would be well suited for home theater speakers, I'd think.
@@gregsunderland6394 Well it’s kind of a novelty piece. He had some 3” full range Dayton audio speakers for monitors and then the 3” sub. (Also Dayton I believe) They sounded surprisingly good for what they are. But not much more than a nice computer pair.
You’ll always get good imaging from such a small pair if set up well. So that was good. The sub suprised me but it’s nothing I would take too seriously. Just a fun side project.
Good review, on this thing. Was funny to see Danny put out a video after.
If I was building a speaker I would love to send it to you so much free advice to make my product better. I like GR research and what they try to do but I do ask myself sometimes what! really? It is really hard to get a single driver to work at full range that is why few attempt it. Thanks for the education and review.
Great review like always!
When I first watched your channel I could tell that you were a straight up person. Lets just say that I had a different first impression when I watched Danny's channel. I don't like to smear people, but I think GR Research is using a lot of smoke and mirrors to sell people vastly overpriced speakers. Thanks for (hopefully) saving some people a lot of money and disappointment.
GR is also using that old trick-- "Hey consumer, I'm on your side. Don't get ripped off by these big companies." Then, with confidence established, boom! You rip them off.
Smoke mirrors and a shed load of BS
Looks like a 30 to $80 driver that probably shouldn't even be played as high as 70db. Really enjoyed the Track Sample..could easily hear the rubber band sound.
$14 trade price
Glad to see you back good sir !
Awesome content sir. I came here after the whole GR research / calling out reviewers debacle (and especially you “Mo”) And I must say you have outed Danny and his measurement for me personally. 👍 Well done and hands down impeccable “scientific” results you’re showing.
Thank you so much for kind words and watching.
For those looking for a great sounding passive speaker for desktop/nearfield I highly recommend Spendor Classic S3/5R, S3/5R2 or the newest Classic 3/5. You can find a used pair for less than what the LGK cost and they're wonderful.
Been having a look at the Spendor Classics recently but I'd like to see detailed measurements if I were thinking to buy. I know they can do good things because I have their A6Rs, which are always a delight, and again I'd be interested to see measurements so I can gauge others relative to something I know. If anyone has Spendors to send to Amir, please do!
@@dananskidolf Sure, I will be on the look out for one.
It's hard to have someone hear the truth when their paycheck depends on a lie.
Analysis and review perfection!
I just found your channel and wow! Subscribed! Would love to see a review on CSS Criton 1TD-X Kit vs Other Comparable Speakers.
Thanks and welcome. I have heard or 1TD-X and would be good to test it. I will put it in the roadmap. :)
Thank you for the excellent review. I own a pair of Sonus Faber Venere 2.5 the GR Research has and upgrade kit for about $679 for. Been hesitating to mess around with them internally. No particular flaws other than 'cheap' crossover parts, no tube connectors and not enough dampening (NoRez). Do you recommend a decent parametric equalizer to improve their sound further as an alternative? Thanks in advance.
I could hear the vocal distortion in the sample you played from my phone speaker. How was it missed by someone who hears night/day difference in cable risers, I will never know
That's the crux of it. I think he lacks critical content that is needed to assess speaker impairments. Ditto for proper protocol. When I remind him of this, he just laughs at it.
Danny is selling a $400 DIY speaker ,. That distorts due to a 3" driver bieng run full range.....the guys a marketing genius ....any cheap $50 ready built commercial speaker will sound vastly superior
Thank you for what you do, sir!
Very even handed, meticulous, thorough review. I appreciate how you explain the rationale for different methods of testing, and how their quantitative measurements translate to experienced sound. The ball is now in Danny's court. My impression of him has been that he is knowledgeable and creates some great speakers. This video may serve as a warning for him to exercise better judgement and quality control on his own products. My hope is that this is not the tip of the iceberg - that he is knowingly producing sub-par products for profit.
There's a whole bunch of "for profit" stuff I'd say. I suppose it's something you have to do, though can be annoying when the person plays the marketing game if it's questioned.
That said this driver is not really fit for proper full range duty aside from softer listening. I'd get away with them at my levels, but for the price I'd build my own thing xD
Any manufacturer that demands that you trust only *their* measurements and refuses independent testing outright, especially by someone like Amir, is inherently untrustworthy. "Believe us and send us money" is simply not an acceptable attitude.
You would think it is to their advantage anyway to pick the best sample they possibly can to send in. It wasn't like we could not go and get our own sample to test.
just had a look the new video on GR Research , regarding these ....in reply to a comment made that the LS50 is near perfect , Danny replied , and I quote :-. " @Haris Javed The LS50's can't approach the sound quality of these little drivers. "
Looks a lot like a Tang Band driver.. which is good, they do quality fullrange drivers. But regarding the pricing from GR - wow. The TB speaker might cost around 20 for the end user (stamped basket, paper cone, good, but simple construction overall). German hifi DIY magazines are full with dozens of comparable concepts, and they are pretty much all published in a "cheap trick" category.
P.S.: Check Cyburg's Needle in all its variations. Much better concept, not only for its super low price, but even overall. Open Source, too.
Don't forget that 50% of his profits go into " research ' ....
Are. The needle Sounds good. But the lancetta is better. A little bit more MDF and 12cm 50mm pipe.
Thanks again Amir. Real science. Gotta love it.
Videos like these help build interest in engineering usefulness and also that numbers have no emotions!
Well that's what you get using too small a speaker combined with terrible xmax capability and typical high frequency beaming caused by the full range driver and high frequency rise. I'm betting this driver came from either India where Danny gets some of his drivers from or China and not of the best quality. Oh by the way has he yet to do that double blind power cable test he claimed he could easily do from what a year ago now? lmao.
Well said. And no, he never performed the blind tests even though he said even his assistance could hear the difference.
A good example of any single cone speaker. Too small for any bass, too large for good HF. Silly price. Great review, many thanks.
Outrageous price
What is the name of this test song? Thanks!
Great video. What is most important in a speaker build the quality of the driver, the crossover or the cabinet? What is the order of importance?
Amir is my defacto go to guy when it comes to audio! The audio ombudsman 💥
:)
Great review, as usual I come for the review and leave learning more about audio engineering
Thank you for the honest review. Don't believe everything manufacturers tell you. They want to make products look good so that they can sell it to you. We need people like you that reveal the true performance of their products. Keep up the good work.
I now know what kind of distortion to look for after watching this. Learned something new today.
You are truly doing the commuty a service by doing reviews like these. Thanks for all your efforts Amir.
Oh Danny …… 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Are there 3 inch drivers that produce good bass without distorting the lows at high volumes? Also whats the cabinet filler situation here?
There may be. Certainly can't be worse!
No. Not in a bass reflex design. But in a rear horn design, yes.
Probably not, but 4inch for sure (Guru Audio Junior)
There may be a "long-throw" design that allows the cone to travel longer distance (which Danny mentioned in his response is a limitation). It may require a different foam ring design or material.
I never took the time to do the math using the more low level equations, but I think increasing the xmax will increase the cost of the driver and lower the efficiency. Efficiency wouldn't be a big deal since a 3" driver won't handle much power at bass frequencies anyway. But increasing the cost definitely does. Everything's a trade off. If you made a 3" driver that could do the job of decent volumes at 80 Hz, it'd be cheaper to get good results with a 2 way with a larger woofer, or 2 3" woofers, like it in a 1.5 or 2.5 way design.
Are you looking for this computer speakers to deliver below 200 Hz? What did you use for box fill, or material to combat resonance?
See the build thread here: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/build-of-gr-research-lgk-2-0-speaker.33479/post-1170116. Resonance is not the problem here. Driver runs out of excursion due to limit of just 1 mm. It distorts heavily at just about any volume. What else it does becomes a way down secondary. And no, these are not sold as "computer speakers." Computer speakers like this cost $50. Not $1,000. For $1,000 you can get many superb speakers.
OUTSTANDING as ALWAYS
Great info.
I’ve been testing speakers for sound quality (and amplifiers) using one channel for years (A/B).
Glad to hear someone else is doing the same.
I was little suspicious seeing Danny’s web site, graphs don’t tell you how a speaker sounds.
Hi am wondering if you did a review/measurement on the Neumann KH80 DSP loudspeakers? Thank you.
OMG, looks like Ive never had a speaker that bad! Nice review! I was curious how IMD sounds, now i know ))
Come on Amir. What do you expect of 3" drivers? Room filling performance? Think these will do pretty well for desktop use at lower levels. But the pricing is a bit bold for that purpose, as is its "marketing". LGK stands for Large Giant Killers. That is a bit of a joke I guess.
Yea, they ain't giant killers in no way shape or form.... just a lot of hype... (js)
I think we all agree the specs said this won't work. But the execution here is even worse than one thinks. I mean he took a driver with 2.5 mm excursion and changed it to just 1 mm for this revision! What is he thinking?
Agreed. Showing "early reflections" measurements for a speaker designed to (essentially) be a near-field monitor seems ...counter-productive.
@@infinite1der Eh, not really. Even near-field, there's quite a bit of room reflection.
Danny is such a blowhard. Thank you for 'gently' taking him down a couple of notches. And thank you for all your hard work and bringing a little sanity to our hobby.
I thought it was gentle in style and tone -- but the facts were pretty stark. Is that why you put gentle in quotes?
A 3" full range will always be limited, but 1mm coil travel does seem rather small. I wonder how it goes at 76db
I found this video to be misleading and not good for the industry.
@@Tsxtasy1 Of course it is misleading. Amir is full of it.
@@Tsxtasy1 lolwut? Why don't you tell us why this is misleading as opposed to Danny's "measurements".
Again superb stuff and good learning . May science reveal the truth.
I really dig Amirs' humor. I don't think he's even trying but i find it hilarious. He gets so much shat from all these industry ppl and handles it masterfully. I find myself laughing at these videos far more than most comedies i watch. This guy is a treasure
Huh? Imagine that... a single driver cannot effectively replace a multi driver setup... I'm shocked! Any other result would have been very surprising. Good testing.
Never a true word spoken too many drivers can sound clumsy and delayed also!
Just one driver that size yes what a joke
For a tiny near field application, you can get a decent compromise. This driver just ain't it.
There are plenty of really good wide drivers. None that I have tested are truely fullrange. Bass response is usually the drawback, more than the treble. Any design choice comes with compromise and challenges.
I cant believe he didnt even want to sell you one prebuilt.
I can 😄 Now Danny can blame 'other factors', mark my words.
Really interesting video. Thank you. As a by-product, I now understand much better those graphs Danny flashes before us.
I have not tested with a mic or REW, but I did notice more clarity after installing a upgrade kit in my towers and center channel speaker. Unfortunately I did blow a tweeter when doing a comparison of upgraded on left and not upgraded on the right. I sent pictures of my crossover work to GR and they replied that it looked correctly done. Not sure what caused the tweeter to blow. I've been using the same high power amp and at higher volume before the upgrade kit. I went ahead and did the second tower upgrade and so far I haven't blown any tweeters but I'm afraid to take it as loud as usually do when jamming out. " Do parts matter " well I'm not certain clarity at low volume is worth the trade off possibly blowing a speaker at higher volume. Maybe I did something wrong or possibly the capacitor on that tweeter was out of wack? With all the upgraded parts what would cause power handling capabilities to lower? Were some of the original parts restricting power? The best way to describe the side by side test before the tweeter blew is kinda like cleaning a dirty window. Makes me wonder GR is just not compensating the power levels people are going to be putting these upgrades through. personally I'm using a 550 watt amp on 300 recommended tower and never reached the really loud level I could do before the upgrade kit.
Interesting story and aspect David that I had not considered. He does indeed change the drive level to each driver and may very well be exceeding them. Indeed, what the company had done originally would have been in that context (of selling a reliable speaker).
The same modifications by the way can be done in software/DSP. There, you can easily adjust how much you are boosting and take into account stress of drivers. I routinely do this and back off as needed. Reliability is very important.
I believe it is caused by the lower crossover point Danny designed. What he used to do is crossing the tweeters at much lower lower frequency , making them play harder. In that way you benefits in the directivity but stressing them at the same time. I once questioned him will that fry the tweeter, but he replied the fs is much lower than the xo point, which I doubt so. As I measured, most of the metal dome tweeter that came with some inexpensive speakers typically has fs above 1.5k.
Danny doesnt understand The Limits of some tweeters when doing modifications he just try to get flat responce Even If The tweeter isnt capable of doing such low frequencies without a waveguide and claim that they Are way better now. So The Power handling and Spl Goes way down and distortion rises.
@@joonas4427 I've wondered about that on some of his mods. He's definitely crossed some of the tweeters over much lower, which leads me to think he doesn't listen to music very loud. I don't think he was going to many rock concerts in his teens or 20s and has a very quiet listening room.
That's not a criticism, just an observation that he's not typical of most consumers. I know my hearing has damage from seeing tons of concerts in the mid to late 80s and early 90s. And my listening room often has a fan going. So it get's turned up.
Amazingly detailed test, thank you Amir! Very educational to see what really takes place with that fine Klippel gear and your skills and makes sense to my own subjective conclusion that these small fullrange driver designs needs to be taken for what they physically can deliver, and at that price point will be disappointing, unless you had too much bad cool-aid to prevent you from hearing reality. The performance reminds me of the Monacor SPX-31M 3" full-range driver that sounds transparent in a little ported system at 18$ a piece, and also can be tuned to similar F3 and the response also looks similar. But too me it gets boring too fast and you need the low, top and ability to listen at a natural SPL, and once you try to fight physics to just get into the bracket of delivering that distortion comes to get you. But a 2.1 system crossed around 100Hz a small fullrange driver can get far with DSP and maximizing to the listening position.
Thank you for kind words and comments. As you say, even in a context of a highly limited 3 inch driver, you can do far better than this kit. And for sure one needs to promote it as a 2.1 system as many low-end companies do. Not set it up to not only be great as is, but take on much larger speakers.
I don’t know who these people Danny or whoever are, but this is a small speaker, seems unfair to say it has distortion at loud levels , or that it’s bottoming out with low frequencies.
You don’t need a scientist to measure this; it’s obvious. This seems like a small desktop speaker that was intentionally over-strained.
I went into the review expecting it to not play loud. But this is in entire different category. With just 1mm of excursion and frequency response extended to 70 Hz, it is a fantasy, not a speaker. I have small speakers that blow it away in dynamics and performance. And it costs over $1,000 built. The only thing unfair is setting expectations that this speaker is a "Giant Killer" when it can't even hold its own. It is a Little Distortion Maker.
@@AudioScienceReview It it known if the speaker needs to be high passed? Or Is it just a 3 inch with no cross-over?
Thank you Amir, another honest review. It is laughable at best that Danny makes the comment that you are not qualified to measure his products. He must be referring to the fact that you don't "cook" yourresults to help his product look better. I've found over the last 2-years that Danny likes to use measurements when it suits his needs, i.e., showing how good his upgrades are for your / his speakers, but doesn't like using measurements when trying to sell you his speaker and power cables. Now apparently from what you've shown here, the measurements he uses are not an honest representation of what he's trying to sell you. IMO, a lot of snake-oil coming out of GR-Research ... I steer clear of him and his company. Watch his video for his power cables and the anecdotal story he tells about how his power cable solved all the problems with the acoustics they had with a hotel room he was set up in at an audio show, that, that is laughable.
I'm curious as to what the binding posts on the driver itself are made from. Danny always makes a huge deal of "cheesy" steel binding posts or screws, either on the outside or inside of the cabinet. I'm guessing any ferrous material anywhere in the connection chain would have a similar impact, (if any), regardless of where it is?
He included his famous "tube connectors" in this kit and that is what was used. I will test those specifically in the future against generic binding posts to see how they compare.
Does it include the magic power cords and caps upgrade that minimise "smearing" of the sound? That could kill some giants alright
It doesn't need power or I am sure such a cord would be required. :) But it does have the magic speaker terminals ("tube connectors"). And we paid $30 extra or so for the fancier cap so there were to excuses after the fact.
You didn't just tell us this product sounds bad like so many other reviewers would have but you proved it, and with sound files no less! Case closed! Lets hope Danny see's this and makes adjustments to his rants about other reviewers as a result.
Thanks. In text review people were still not believing how bad it sounded. It was a bit of a pain to setup to capture it but as you say, it was worth it.
Have you ever tested any speakers with Markaudio or Jordan full range driver units ?
your best series hahaha would love to see measurements of the more pricier ones GR trollsearch !