I am not surprised he replied like that. I used to watch Paul's videos when new to the hobby, but I quickly moved on. The guy gets asked reader questions (a good concept so far) but his replies are always very vague and almighty. He presents himself as an old man with ultimate knowledge and experience, he can't be wrong. I work with electronics, restore old tube radios as a hobby, his "lab" didn't impress me. You can't argue a waveform or a spectrum result unless you are in a cult or in bad faith.
@@joesmith4443 How many times are you going to cut and paste this same tired steam of innuendo and heavily curated observation leading to a thoroughly banal conclusion?
@@_kardus Geez he doesn’t measure what comes out when music files are played. He doesn’t even know what a FGPA does in the DACs he is review do which The DAC manufacture widely advertise by the DAC especially the Chinese DACs that do the same exact SINAD measurements he does! And they LOVE when he reviews them with similar to close to measurements with same exact measurement tools they use 🥱🙄 Take a look at the smsl or topping advertisement you’ll see the same tests almost exactly what He’s measuring and what he “highly recommends” are! He has zero to no understanding of circuit design nor of dac chip topology, their implementation nor never mentions what digital filters are used in what dac or chip set are used and how effective they are for different formats like DSD and PCM. None of this goes into his so-called tests and measurements
@@_kardus yes but I’ve seen Amir along with his “Donors” crap on input from vendors regardless if the information is accurate and factual simply because he and his “Donors” are cynical or don’t like their products or digital format nor fully understands them or don’t want to!
@@joesmith4443 Amir is financially independent, but that doesn't mean he must live off fresh water and love. He has every right to get renumerated for his time and investment. Don't forget that for a 'hobby tester' he has more testing equipments than some audio companies....
@@dihydrotestosterone look I’m not saying what Amir does is not valuable and it’s nice to have a “customer reports” or “buying beware” watchdog. It’s just that what he created is somewhat of cult (probably not by his design) I don’t mind that he is fiery but sometimes his opinions become dogma maybe not by him but by others’. We all a flawed and have blind spots! I am not gonna comment anymore on his TH-cam page I’ve said what I want to say. It’s really not fair to the anymore to keep a grudge and keep talking negative about him and his content. I’m glad that he’s doing well financially and can do what he wants with his time now. Geez who the heck doesn’t want that…I wish him all the best in life and believe what he’s doing is value content to his viewership and not easy especially to take criticism like mine. So there’s no point to being a “troll” and hanging on to resentment because before you know it you turn into that cynical person trying to get likes from snarky sarcastic comments. :)
Amir, you are the most productive member of the audio community. Please keep doing exactly what you are doing, it is an invaluable service to the actual community of audio enthusiasts.
The PS audio had a lower harmonic by 10db but the S/N ratio of the 60hz was 20db worse than mains after the PS audio... You'd think the 60hz is more critical.
You are definitely one of the most valuable member of the community. Don't take **** from Paul. This is classic damage control. The fact that they showed up with consumer grad voltmeters speaks volume about the legitimacy of their product. Even I do better testing in my living room when I DIY stuff...
You are correct. Paul's catty comment about Amir being a "sour puss" tells you all you need to know. The "community" Paul is referring to is the audio rip off community.
Fluke handheld multimeters aren't "consumer grade" - they're actually reference pro-grade devices. They are, however, only multimeters and as such aren't usually designed to provide the sort of spectral information that was useful for Amir to make his point.
@@phpn99 Amir has his own confirmation biases, don’t be fooled! He’s human after all with a huge ego as well! Normally I would agree with you however Amir does receive donations from his members on his website that is fully disclosed but also means he too can be susceptible to confirmation biases and group thinking do to loyalty to those that contribute financially. Giving members “titles” like “Major Contributor” and “industry insider” could also be an authority fallacy I see data “gaps” in some of his measurements. Like he often only measures SINAD in DACs with 1khz sine wave without actually testing real life usage of the DACs when and how they behave with actual music files being played and disclose those measurements of well recorded not so well recorded music files. So you gotta take the data with a grain of salt… nonetheless it’s good to those that check on others’ claims as “watchdogs” and present their findings.
@@joesmith4443 wouldn't you agree though that Amir is far more transparent with his approach than say PS Audio or audioquest? And isn't more information always a good thing?
A big thanks from this community member. I am an audio enthusiast and an engineer. There is too much snake oil in the consumer audio industry. Pls keep the facts coming!
I think that PS Audio "response video" was the first time I've ever seen them measure ANYTHING from their own equipment. Paul surrounds himself with his factory-lab equipment and never runs any tests until ASR actually started testing PSA equipment. ASR is the best thing to happen to consumer Audio since Hirsh-Houck lab printed reports in "Stereo Review" magazine.
Thank you. Funny thing is, he did a video a year ago where he said they should start doing measurements to teach me how to do it. Of course, that never happened. If what they showed here is their idea of "proper measurements," I don't think even if they did something, it would be worth paying attention to.
There is a lot of money at stake in audiophile products that do nothing, based solely on marketing phrases, but nothing real and objective. Manufacturers make huge profits from them. Thanks for your work, you make a great benefit for the community of people who like to listen to music
The "community" to which Mr. McGowan refers is most likely his notion of the PS Audio "hifi family" -- deep-pocketed folks who are devoted to the brand and hang on his every word as if he was some sort of audio oracle rather than a marketing-oriented CEO with a smattering of the rather basic technical knowledge typical of a self-taught audio hobbyist who fancies himself (some sort of) an engineer. Such folks abound in the "high-end" sector of the audio industry -- Mr. McGowan is just more prominent as a presenter and advice dispenser than most of his counterparts at other companies.
Companies like that need to take a hard look at their future. Boomers with deep pockets are literally a dying breed and I bet make up 75% of the 'audiophile' community. The up and coming generations just don't have the pockets to buy $500 DACs let alone $7000 'mains filters'. A lot of luxury markets will dwindle away as the population has less and less financial power.
Amir has his own confirmation biases and “community”, don’t be fooled! Amir does receive donations from his members on his website that is fully disclosed but also means he too can be susceptible to confirmation biases and group thinking do to loyalty to those that contribute financially. Giving members “titles” like “Major Contributor” and “industry insider” could also be an authority* fallacy I see data “gaps” in some of his measurements. Like he often only measures SINAD in DACs with 1khz sine wave without actually testing real life usage of the DACs when and how they behave with actual music files being played and disclose those measurements of well recorded and not so well recorded music files to see how the digital filters and firmware performs! So you gotta take the data with a grain of salt… nonetheless it’s good to those that check on others’ claims as “watchdogs” and present their findings. *Edited
@@joesmith4443 What is "authoritarian fallacy"? I've never heard that one before. You seem to be copy&pasteing this same comment all over these comments, I've seen at least 3 identical ones from you so far. Any chance you are here to run damage control for PSaudio?
@@alkestos Haha, no Paul’s claims are also an authority fallacy. Anyone in the right mind would know that AC regenerator is a vanity item that most people will not buy for 6 grand whether it has little to no affect on Audio! (Common sense, I don’t know why Amir is review this…) PS12 is outside “normal” peoples audio budget anyway! It’s an illogical fallacy to spot as a critical thinking skill much like like “ad hoc argument or straw man arguments” (click link to get full description) which means someone who say has Microsoft credentials and worked on Audio projects limited to 2007 using his authority to make “claims” because of that supposed social status. Like a doctor who’s trying to sell you snake oil vitamins based on him graduating from one of the top medical schools in the world with half truth junk science. Cut and paste to get the word out. Not all glitter is gold! th-cam.com/video/mgqM6xeZHNM/w-d-xo.html
@@joesmith4443 Oh, appeal to authority or alternatively authority fallacy. Authoritarian on the other hand is something completely different and the reason for my confusion. They are logical fallacies, as something illogical is already fallacious, by definition.
When Paul says "not part of the community" what he really means is "you're shattering the illusion" that he created and his customers enjoy. For a man who says he doesn't like drama, casting aspersions on your intent and abilities comes awfully naturally to him. For all his apparent friendliness, he's an ugly character when backed into a corner.
I’ve met people like Paul in life, they’re narcissistic sociopaths. Oh and he’s probably too cheap to buy proper testing equipment for his “engineers”!
i just happened to see his video on mqa and one of the first things he said in response to the viewers question was "nothing in audio is straight forward buddy". when actually there is a lot of stuff that's straight forward. maybe just not much that comes from him. especially if you're trying to weasel $6000 out of somebody for a power strip.
Amir has his own confirmation biases, don’t be fooled! He’s human after all with a huge ego as well! Normally I would agree with you however Amir does receive donations from his members on his website that is fully disclosed but also means he too can be susceptible to confirmation biases and group thinking do to loyalty to those that contribute financially. Giving members “titles” like “Major Contributor” and “industry insider” could also be an authoritarian fallacy I see data “gaps” in some of his measurements. Like he often only measures SINAD in DACs with 1khz sine wave without actually testing the DACs when and how they behave with actual music files being played. So you gotta take the data with a grain of salt… nonetheless it’s good to those that check on others’ claims as “watchdogs.”
@@joesmith4443 lol well I've seen here and there people try to fight measurements by attacking him, like what is he doing drowning lines he likes and say it is from measurements?
@@r423fplip you sure can. That’s why data sheets are lab test evaluation boards no dac has all the dac chip manufacturers requirements they take short cuts and make design choices that can cheat measurement tools or even exceed some dac chip spec lab tests for instance what it can handle under certain stress tests they don’t give you real world user conditions. It just passes the required demands of the load it suppose to handle not maximize its performance. Amir to my knowledge isn’t an electronics engineer. He doesn’t know about circuits nor how to test them. He can’t recognize the Circuit designs either. He doesn’t do tear down of the DACs he’s review ether. He doesn’t even know interpret the technical specifications and requirements of the dac chip datasheets and to properly read their schematics. Some on his forum do and have pointed out his shortcomings in this very important area of audio equipment manufacturing designs and their flaws despite what the measurements say! 🤦♂️
@@MrVizzleAmir doesn’t design the stuff only tests them nor has the knowledge to design he only checks the distortion via inputs and out specs of a dac like a technician would and unlike an engineer that knows what he’s testing designs like the circuits, etc Amir should just state this for “transparency.”
Yes but in fairness to Paul he did say that there was a firmware update that affected the measurements. For accuracy Amir should do this check as well.
@joesmith4443 SMITH...... YOU AT IT AGAIN?..... PASTING THE SAME REPLIES TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE?..... -- Nothing "is up." Amir is a rather well-off entrepreneur and retired executive-level engineering manager who owns a well established custom installation business -- he doesn't need to "monetize" ASR. There's no way his (relatively recent) activity of posting video versions of his reviews on U-Toob and (the typically small-$$) contributions to the ASR website's upkeep are enough to even cover the five-digit cost of his AP analyzer, let alone the six-digits he paid for his Klippel NFS. Bottom line: the guy's ASR-related activity is a 99.44% pure labor of love and your cynicism is entirely unfounded and unwarranted. IOW, you can't "say why" because you don't know WTF you're talking about!
I saw that Paul put out a video and I was hoping you would do a follow up video as well. I am grateful that you and others have stepped up to the plate to educate people about the snake oil that some company's try and push.
That was passionate !! :-) Praise to you for your professionalism. Very unfortunate that PS Audio does not acknowledge flaws and attempt to fix them, which would not prevent them flogging useless gear, but that at least it would perform as per spec and expectations. I was very also surprised to see the engineer noodle around with voltmeters; simply not serious.
These manufacturers are so used to everyone buying their snake oil, they don't know what to do when someone calls out their BS. Thanks Amir for keeping them accountable!
They live in an echo chamber of sycophants who can't face the reality because they have invested so much money that admitting they were had is too painful.
@@westsider1442 exactly! The Emperor has no clothes great you proved your point! So who cares if this is snake oil. What Normal people would spend 6 grand on an AC reGenerator. Heck I’m happy for Paul, I’d do the same thing if the demand was there. There’s a sucker born everyday. Amir’s 4 or 5 video on PS audio and Paul. ASR forum is obsessed with this guy and his company! Amir could have simply refused to review this on his channel for something we are all more interesting in being tested!
@@joesmith4443 wrote, "Heck I’m happy for Paul, I’d do the same thing if the demand was there. There’s a sucker born everyday." IOW, Joe, given the chance for some quick money you'd operate without business ethics. Copy that...
@@editorjuno plenty of products on the market that don’t work as intended! It’s a free market. Unless you are saying audio gear should be regulated with accurate information, measurements about products sold. If so I’m 100% on board with you Bruce. 10-4!
I own and enjoy PS audio equipment. I’m so happy you’re doing this testing. Being open and honest is the only way to go. For years I’ve been tired of seeing “high end” audio companies get a free pass. They should be able to adequately substantiate their claims. Keep up the good work!
@NickPavlica If you are lucky enough to own their equipement, especially this amplifier worth no more than 500$ in raw parts, you are fortunate enough to take him to court, claim all of your costs, plus the cost of this machine and also claim damadges, and compensation for being miss-lead by false claims..... I wish i had baught one of those machines, in my country, (uk) we would have got an "extradition treety" and put him and his son in prision for "obtaining money by deception" (basically fraud). You seem like a really decent chap to me, and im sorry you have been "conned" into buying these products, perhaps this news hasnt circulated through "fleabay" yet and you can still get some of your money back on the rest of the products you own from ps audio....... Good luck buddy, and im sorry this has happened to you.... ☹️
I own a PS Audio BHK 250 power amp which I bought (used) to replace my ML #27 - and I never regretted this decision. I started to like PS Audio after my experiences with the BHK 250. However this episode makes me a bit uncomfortable. If you screw up - own it! It’s simple. The moment PS Audio went personal in its defense, they as much as admitted (imho) that they screwed up. Thanks Amir for your addition of measurements to the community!
For the most part, Amir isn't saying it's a bad product (with a few nagging issues). If it's working for you, continue to enjoy your product. The biggest issue here is what appears to be possible false advertising and a failure to have a productive conversation with the community.
do not bother, some parts that are said in this video in my opinion are at least very debatable if not suggestive or plainly wrong. The part from 8:30 onward here is most misleading: voltage drop in his slide is stated as 4 volt, but Amir calls it 2-3V; the power drawn from the device (correct value 300W) he calls 700 or more watts; so while he exaggerates on the root cause of the voltage drop by more than factor 2, he understates the effect by factor 2, then concludes obviously it is irrelevant; Amir‘s argumentation appears quite biased here. The key knowledge of a company such as PS Audio is doing relevant measurements- so that their equipment actually sounds accurate to source. doing just some measurements may be interesting to look at but might be misleading (noise spectrum for example: whats the load used - Amir doesn’t tell). Well tx for reading if you made it until this point. :)
@@gioponti6359 I guess it was 300W per switch, so 900 in total... But in a way that's besides the point I wanted to make. Amir shure is not very diplomatic, but Paul's reply was personal and I think this is wrong. A discussion which could be scientific or at last taste-related becomes polar - well those are the times, I guess. Happy 2022 to all of you!
You can't make an ac regenerator that improves audio performance. So even if this weren't a bad design, it's STILL snake oil. There was intent to market something that cannot improve audio quality as an audio product. There was no "mistake"
So did I! On Amir's recommendation I bought my Topping Head Phone amp which cost a fraction of my previous "high end" device (don't ask which one, it's embarrassing..) Thank God, someone bought it of me on account of its "brand name". I hope he is not reading this! 😀
After watching this video I wanted to start with the technical part but then felt it affected Amir so much I wanted to say…anyone with any technical expertise is 100% on your side. Not that this is about taking sides, but it is about the truth. Now the technical part. After working in the electrical industry for 40 years which included power quality analysis AND UPS sales I can say with certainty that power is the most misunderstood topic and subject to voodoo in the industry. Had many customers who were certain they had some power issues and wanted an audit who’s was not easy or cheap who were very disappointed when the results did not show what they were expecting.
Amir, your measurements and presentations have always been objective and professional. You have my total admiration. PS Audio and Paul, on the other hand, are cornered and trying to find a way out this charade with personal attacks and unfounded allegations. I used to respect Paul but his behavior in this matter has turned me off.
The Empire Strikes Back.... and Return of the Jedi. ASR members and folks that have some basic electronics knowledge know to which camp each player belongs to. This PS Audio PowerPlant saga shoud be settled for good. We hope... LOL Paul from PSA says that he won't engage Amir on a point by point basis. That's what you say when your points are technically indefensible. Furthermore, in some instances, some people that can't defend their points with valid arguments will resort to attacking the character of their opponent because in a moment of panic, they react in fear and don't know what else to do. Paul McGowan, in such instances, it's best to stay quiet and not to engage in further discussions to dig oneself deeper in the hole.
Congratulations, Amir, you have managed to find a product more controversial than a speaker cable. (Well they had it coming, an AC power re-generator, if there was ever a snake oil product...) In any case, I am so glad there are people like you who don't allow them self to be mobbed by the audio lobby and provide us to their best ability with their side of the story. Thanks for that and I enjoy your videos.
Amir has his own confirmation biases and “community”, don’t be fooled! Amir does receive donations from his members on his website that is fully disclosed but also means he too can be susceptible to confirmation biases and group thinking do to loyalty to those that contribute financially. Giving members “titles” like “Major Contributor” and “industry insider” could also be an authoritarian fallacy I see data “gaps” in some of his measurements. Like he often only measures SINAD in DACs with 1khz sine wave without actually testing real life usage of the DACs when and how they behave with actual music files being played and disclose those measurements of well recorded and not so well recorded music files to see how the digital filters and firmware performs! So you gotta take the data with a grain of salt… nonetheless it’s good to those that check on others’ claims as “watchdogs” and present their findings.
@@joesmith4443 -- Nothing "is up." Amir is a rather well-off entrepreneur and retired executive-level engineering manager who owns a well established custom installation business -- he doesn't need to "monetize" ASR. There's no way his (relatively recent) activity of posting video versions of his reviews on U-Toob and (the typically small-$$) contributions to the ASR website's upkeep are enough to even cover the five-digit cost of his AP analyzer, let alone the six-digits he paid for his Klippel NFS. Bottom line: the guy's ASR-related activity is a 99.44% pure labor of love and your cynicism is entirely unfounded and unwarranted. IOW, you can't "say why" because you don't know WTF you're talking about!
@joesmith4443 SMITH...... YOU STILL COPYING AND PASTEING THE SAME REPLIES TO PEOPLE?????? PITY YOU CANT THINK FOR YOURSELF....... -- Nothing "is up." Amir is a rather well-off entrepreneur and retired executive-level engineering manager who owns a well established custom installation business -- he doesn't need to "monetize" ASR. There's no way his (relatively recent) activity of posting video versions of his reviews on U-Toob and (the typically small-$$) contributions to the ASR website's upkeep are enough to even cover the five-digit cost of his AP analyzer, let alone the six-digits he paid for his Klippel NFS. Bottom line: the guy's ASR-related activity is a 99.44% pure labor of love and your cynicism is entirely unfounded and unwarranted. IOW, you can't "say why" because you don't know WTF you're talking about!
The idea that cleaning AC prior to the audio device AC filter, to increase clarity at the outputs is based on ignorance on the buyer's part, and greed on the manufacturer/designer. It's REALLY dumb to filter high power when it's not needed. The device needs low voltage DC. That's it! Cleaning high voltage AC requires expensive parts. Doing it TWICE is pure silliness. The A/B listening test is what they should be spending money on. Who would pass that? Same thing with 'cables'. Why don't they invest in AB testing and PROVE their assertions of signal improvement/enhancement? They can't. Snake oil sells, and it's very cynical for people to make money on people's ignorance. Thanks for following up to help consumers, Amir. GREAT SERVICE.
Great review, and as technical engineer (electronics) I know you are correct and you reviews are honest and objective. People that buy that things don't understand electronics at all, they are believers. Well done ,I am 100 % on your side revealing the ugly Truth.
Who cares if this is snake oil. What Normal person would spend 6 grand on an AC reGenerator? Heck I’m happy for Paul, I’d do the same thing if the demand was there. There’s a sucker born everyday. Amir could have simply refused to review this on his channel for something we are all more interesting in being tested! Amir’s 4 or 5th video on PS audio and Paul. ASR forum is obsessed with this guy and his company!
@@joesmith4443 Don't think so.. When someone sends you a piece of gear asking if it can be measured and an unbiased opinion given, you simply put it on the test bench and do a proper Lab testing, following a scientific approach (with the best instruments available for that purpose, and certainly, not ...multimeters!). Amir is *not reviewing this* It's simply put, a Lab Test and, a very detailed one at that.
@@m.9243 This is his 5th video on Paul and Ps Audio. There’s a sucker born every day Amir’s not gonna change that fact because he’s got $100,000 testing equipment. Someone wants this tested go to an electronics store nearby where you live and support a local businesses owner and get it tested by technicians for less then the cost to ship it to Amir and back! Or better yet get it tested during a trial period and send it back to Paul for your money back if it doesn’t measure or do what is supposed to do! Then write an online review of your experience. Geez, y’all make sound like Amir is the only viable option here!
Excellent video! Thank-you Amir. Once again you are clearly and unambiguously dispelling false claims that is so prevalent in this industry. Let's call out the con men.
A couple of years ago I bought a brand new P20 and sold it within 6-months. It added so much noise to my system. I sent it back to PS Audio twice in that time to be checked out. They never could find a problem. It sounded like DC was being added to the line. I know some seem to love their products. For me it was the worst. Matter of fact I sold all my PS Audio gear in that time. I was extremely disappointed after spending tens of thousands of dollars with them.
I have no experience with PSA, other than watching Paul do his videos, which never seem to answer the questions asked, they are always vague to me, unlike Amir who is an actual engineer with real test equipment that CAN answer the questions. Now, I do not agree with the one and zeros all of the time, as I have heard things differently in my system. And this is nothing against Amir and his videos, which I do subscribe to. I am not always in 100% agreement, and that is not a slap against Amir and the work he has put into this venture of bringing us the hard facts. I can say the same about Gene over at his Audiohaulics site, I respect both men for their works, as they have both educated me in this foggy world of Hi-Fi... To my point, the gear we have access to today is lightyears ahead of what we could get just a few years ago. The quality and manufacturing costs, along with factory direct manufacturers, it is just another world in regards to cost and performance out here. My thinking, and not knocking you for your PSA purchases in the past... My thinking, the gear that Paul sells is for another group of folks, folks that have not kept up, spend more for better sound. That would have been true a few years ago, but like I said above, we are finally at another level in quality audio gear. Today we can do more with less, and do not have to break the bank to find that sound that was literally out of reach for many just a few years ago. Paul is slick, and I bet a real SOB to work with and for. I picked that up in a number of his videos, and the above just solidifies that in my mind. The shaking hands of the tech says it all... I see Paul as a dinosaur in this industry, selling nonsense.
Excellent critique, especially identifying the apparent partial power regeneration. Unfortunate that Paul resorted to a personal attack rather than addressing the issues, it seems that he is unable to do so.
Great stuff. Seems the modern audio industry is a closed loop of misleading manufacturers and a "community" of unqualified "reviewers" simply parroting marketing and biased subjective opinions. Both should be shown up for what they really are, it's for the benefit of consumers at the end of the day.
Thanks for doing your "hobby" in the most professional and scientific manner. Speaking as a science Ph.D. with significant reviewer & editorial experience. Too bad Paul resorts to ad hominem attacks; at least now you know for sure you are on the right track! Sad and funny at the same time. Thanks for being a extraordinarily high-value leader in the audio community!
Yes it's a bit disappointing. Paul could have just taken it on board and said he hears the measurements and will try to improve on some of the findings but this isn't his only product and he will let his listeners decide for themselves.
@@easternlethal The "I hear differences even if measurements do not show anything" is Paul's standard retort. But even that he does not back up with anything approaching blind A-B testing. So it is his word as a sales person against extraordinarily sophisticated measurements and explanations (plus listening tests) by a financially dis-interested party (ASR). As they say on crime shows "follow the money".
@Douglas Blake LOL, your default position is to assume everyone has a PhD?! :-D You'll also notice that the sentence from Daniel doesn't actually contain any other info than his credentials. Tells me all I need to know. Speaking as an Engineering PhD.
PSaudio had to do something to defend the buyers of the expensive gear their customers bought in order to improve the sound quality. I’m glad that you have measured the P12, I will never buy such devices although I considered it once. Changing the speaker positioning by a small bit has lots more impact than a regenerator could do (in the case they don’t make it worse). 👍 for Amir. We need more Amir in audio so we can spend our money on the right equipments
What's truly incredible is what Amir always brings up at the end of these videos: just spend a half hour having someone plug in/disconnect the power plant and show a single blind test that you can tell the night and day difference. Don't have the instrumentation to measure? Fine. Just show that you can reliably tell the difference. It's so simple yet they never will do it.
I can't believe Paul's response. Accusing you of a conflict of interest and saying you're a negative part of the audio community is ridiculous. Sorry Paul, you can't hand wave measurements. Keep them honest, Amir!
Paul is annoyed because these products are his main selling point. Learned a lot from him to be honest, but if you listen long enough, he mixes in these woo woo claims more often than i like....
I go back to my pervious point here that I made after viewing the earlier videos in this series/story: Companies like PS Audio shouldn't be SCOLDING Amir at all for what he is doing and what he is revealing with his advanced testing. Instead, they should be HIRING him - as a DESIGN CONSULTANT. If someone has discovered flaws, shortcomings or limitations in your products, your very first priority should be to resolve and FIX those problems so as to be able to IMPROVE the product that you are ultimately selling to your customers from that point forward. Don't just reflexively go on the defensive about it and try and deflect/minimize what they are saying. Actually LISTEN to what they are telling you and see them as an ADVOCATE instead of adversary. Then work to leverage their knowledge, abilities and strengths so that you can ultimately become better at what you are doing. That's how healthy, positive, constructive, mature adults (and companies) behave...or at least that's how they are supposed to.
Amir, you are way too polite :). Imagine spending Thousands on a turbo for your car only for it to 1. Do nothing to performance or 2. decrease its performance output. High-end audio equipment needs to show and prove what it does on the tin, not just fancy marketing speak. Well done for your efforts.
Thanks Amir you are the best, your comprehensive test seems to show that as advertised it’s an AC regenerator to the extend that it’s able to regenerate the noise and distortion to almost the same level as the mains but with stable voltage so basically we have a fancy voltage regulator.
Amir, many thanks for your hard work. Keep your cool and keep doing what you do best. We all appreciate your knowledge and insights into audio products.
Same story over and over... Every time I see a manufacturer of a shady product take up the challenge when he is called out by someone who know his craft, he's bound to crash and burn. Thank you so much, Amir, for fighting the good fight and standing up to all the snake oil vendors! If you don't have arguments, personal attacks are what's left. What a disaster for PS.
where this is really actually the disaster is all those reviewers that were high-profile and use one of these devices and said it made their system better. that's where the real snowfall is going to come in.
@Mickey.... Yer..... all liars, now is the time to collect their names, unsubscribe, and block their content as they too are as dishonest as this mcgowan scumbag and his "pure shite audio" company...... I have every faith that atleast 1 american (who realises that the king has no clothes on) will report to the police that they have been conned or duped into buying shite, shite they cant test for themselves...... its called "obtaining money by deception" basically fraud...... I replied as i liked your comment, and think we are like minded people..... Take care and best of wishes... 👍🏻🙂
the community of snake oil salesmen is really unhappy with you Amir. They are a tight community. My favorite part of your impact on the industry is when you highlight super expensive, poor performing stuff. I bought several things based on your recommendation (Wharfedale speakers, dx3 pro+) and somehow non of them came from Bellevue. Weird.
Amir, not part of the community? I've invited Amir to be on a podcast on my channel, and again at my Summit. He agreed both times! I've emailed Paul and his team numerous times, I shook his hand when I saw him in person and I invited him personally to be on. He's still never been on. Who's not part of the "community"?
Yea but you don't have a 100,000 dollar set up yet so you can't be part of Paul's "community". Audiophiles are gatekeepers of their own bullshit hobby. People who can smell the bullshit don't want to be part of that community anyway. I appreciate that you're a man of the people Joe!
PS Audio provides products for a market of consumers who need third party validation that their systems sound good. The products become the experience and more expensive products provide greater affirmation that the system is good. It's hard to fault a business for feeding this market as long as there are happy customers, but Amir is red pilling a lot of folks right now. And I'm sure the boutique placebo feeders are feeling threatened as are many of the "reviewers" that enable this market.
The claims made by the manufacturer for the product cannot be substantiated. Its as simple as that. In Australia those manufacturers would find themselves with a regulatory please explain. If they say it does something they need to back it up. False and misleading claims end up in court.
I think that in the realm of ‘high end’ audio, whatever that term represents? There are all to often, costly and ineffective solutions fabricated to solve, non existent or at least trivial issues. Let’s not forget, that whoever the manufacturer, whatever the product, it is conceived, designed and manufactured with one goal. To make money. Now, if that product fulfils the needs and specific requirements of the end user, or consumer, then it’s a win win scenario, the company could be on route to success. Amir, the audiophile community need you and others like you to keep us grounded. We need a man of fact based science to help us navigate the road to audio nirvana. To give us the knowledge to differentiate between the shit and the shine. The snake oil and the real thing. Keep up the good work. I like Paul, of P S Audio. I hold him in high regard and respect his opinions, even if I don’t always agree. The worrying thing is that I think he genuinely believes those regenerators will enhance the performance of your audio system. Most importantly, enjoy the music.
@Joe Smith While it's true that we ALL have biases, even you I'm sure (and that's not intended as a derogatory statement), it's pretty hard to argue with the measurements Amir has made here. As an electronics engineer by education and trade, I am VERY BIASED towards measurements. I completely understand and agree with all of his measurements and claims made herein. Notwithstanding the validity and applicability of SINAD measurements, AC waveform measurements, and everything surrounding them, are fairly easy to measure. When a company makes claims in support of charging $6.000 for what is essentially an AC line filter, these claims have to be questioned. I for one appreciate what Amir is doing to dispel these outrageous claims. There are plenty of audiophiles out there who won't care, and convince themselves that there is a difference in sound by using this device. My own experience tells me it's all mental justification on their part. If you have decent, and fairly stable AC power, as we're fortunate to have here in the US, there really is NO NEED for a device such as this. You could get a very good AC line filter, even one that's several hundreds of dollars, and be assured your system is well protected. That to me is a more justified approach, rather than spending $6,000 on AC power regulation, which would be better spent on premium audio gear, if that's your inclination.
Yep we all do but this is literally Amir’s 5th video about PS Audio and Paul’s claims. If you visit ASR there are literally forums devoted to trashing Paul and his company. Who cares if it’s snake oil most audio enthusiast are have modest budgets not thousands of dollars to buy this stuff anyway! Let’s be honest though no “normal” person is gonna buy a 6 grand ac regenerator! Amir had a choice to review this or not and he did. That’s my issue with this. It didn’t measure that badly but it’s also didn’t have any audio difference either! Who in this entire comment section is interested in this product anyway? No me. You?
@33:20 is why i come to this channel on youtube and trust Amir's reviews and technical data. I can feel good about buying a piece of equipment and know it will work well. Most of all other equipment reviewers help sell their products.
There is one thing that I like for sure about you Amir and ASR: the honesty and competency with wich you portray hi-fi gears and their performance. But here you should ackowledge Paul is a great marketer because if it wasn't for him I wouldn't know about Madrona Digital. Give credits where credits are due :P
Well done Amir. Here are my comments I put on the PS video: This test is pointless as the wrong test point is used. The test should be on the DC output from the audio equipment power supply. Any well designed power supply will measure exactly the same voltage and quality with or without this expensive box. The final test is on audio quality. If an improvement can really be heard then spend your money on better equipment with a good power supply. This box is a solution looking for a problem, a problem that does not exist in quality audio equipment. Power supply design is very well understood and all competent manufacturers os audio equipment use power supplies that can handle dirty mains. Is PS equipment sounds better with this expensive magic box then their power supplies are very poor.
it'll probably get removed. surprised they even let you comment. i tried to leave a comment on a vid over there last week and it came back with an errror. i think they're blocking ASR members over there.
"Incorporating audiophile myths in their products" is just a terrific way to describe so many of the Hi-End Audiophile products. The 'Myths' are seductive as 'FM' and the best (generally most potentially profitable) of the Myths propagate thru the manufacturing and consumer Audiophile space until the next one arrives. The buying public for $50,000 audio systems is relatively small and the competition is fierce. There is a sameness to High End Audiophile products (loudspeaker designs!) as the prevalent Myth runs it's commercial course. I am new to Amir's forum and I feel good whenever I watch one of the videos. Blind Tests!! Of course, basic Science. What is the relevant property to investigate? Does it make a difference in the result? The AP analyzer is a great tool in the hands of an audiophile with experience and a good set of experienced ears and some depth of knowledge. It's a Tool. Like a telescope for an Astrophysicist. It helps to be brilliant as Amir is, to put Art and Science together so convincingly and interestingly, but us regular folks can use the same process with great results. I use an AP 515 to help me zero in on things and sort out good ideas and not so good :( ideas. P
Wow, I wish I had seen this before I bought their DAC. While I never bought into the expansive power plant claims, I would have expected that it might at least provide some improvements in dynamics with very challenging music played at high volumes, i.e. by using a massive capacitor bank. If that means some loss in maximum average power it would be worthwhile tradeoff. But apparently it doesn't even do that. These tests and their response to the test results totally blows their credibility I am sad to say.. Paul is a charming guy but this is really disappointing. However, their defensiveness is understanable given the existential threat reviews like this have for their business. Caveat emptor!
As someone seriously considering purchasing a few PS Audio products, I'm very thankful I stumbled upon your videos. Paul's rebuttal looked like amateur hour and it was obvious he was obfuscating/strawmanning. My search for hi-fi audio equipment starts anew.
Not that I would ever be in the market for something such as whatever this thing is, it is much appreciated that you provide impartial information about it and other products.
Just for fun I checked Stereophile's review on this item and ... oh my, they loved it. Dramatic sonic improvements... wonder if PS Audio ads are in their mag?
"My hope is that he becomes a productive member of the community rather than a thorn in its side." That is so shameless lol. Selling an obscenely expensive product that doesn't even do what it purports. You are definitely a thorn in his side because you inform an otherwise naive crowd and prevent them from spending their money on silly products. What you do is important for the greater good. Kudos.
You have totally misconstrued this video. You know nothing of power regeneration and this video did not dispute that it didn't do that. This isn't a high-end channel but is biased against it. Contrary to what this guy says , many high-end amps have regulated power supplies but go ahead put your faith here. This guy is an idiot.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt "A P12 gives you greatly improved performance and safety from just plugging into the wall socket and far better dynamics, bass and a much bigger, open soundstage than any passive power conditioner on the market.". You think the product is being marketed as an AC voltage regulator? No. It is advertised as a product that makes a drastic difference in sound. If it does, then it is your duty to prove it. Most new amps have power supplies built in and although it can help some amps with hum and distortion and whatever, it can inversely introduce noise itself and be current limited for amps with very high power draws. How can you justify the price tag when this specific product does not regenerate AC like a typical AC-DC-AC generator does? You can buy Instrument grade AC power supplies for less.
I seem to recall PS Audio having a good credit/upgrade program. I wonder how many power plants they are about to be buying back, and how low they’ll push down the value on those units. I also wonder what products people we be trading those power plants out for. 🤔
As soon as i saw the video on the ps audio channel my mind immediately taught off amir. And I was hoping the he made a response video and YESS he did.,,cant wait to get home from work roll myself a big Bob Marley and press play😁👍🏻
Amir, great follow up video. I have a P12 and a P20. I wish you could do the same thorough analysis on the P20. But that aside. Ok so let’s say the PS Audio PowerPlants are not improving stereo performance and they are dropping power on the HC outlets. Also you had stated to me in the comments that you measured no benefit to the Audioquest Niagara power conditioners. So given that, if an audiophile with a large rig and power full amps, a DAC, Roon core, streamer, CD Transport needs something to plug all this gear into and all he has is one duplex wall outlet, he needs some sort of power strip, distributor or conditioner to accommodate all these devices. *So what do you recommend?* If I get rid of all my PowePlants what am I supposed to plug all my gear into, a cheap power strip from HomeDepot? I am sure there is something better than that? What do you recommend? Thanks.
Thanks for the kind words. I use an industrial power strip from Tripp-Lite (RS-1215). They have other configurations as well. They come with very thick AC cord and I have measured amplifiers producing 1,100 watts through it while powering the rest of my gear. Here is the Amazon link: smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000513OF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
@@AudioScienceReview Amir, thanks for the reply. I am all for calling out products that bamboozle the audiophile consumer. IMO Innuos is another such company that does this. I think there is an opportunity for you to expand your work in the power conditioning and regeneration area. Now that you have shown that a bunch of these units are not worth the money, now it’s a great opportunity to demonstrate what devices you recommend as replacements. So you mentioned the Tripp Lite strip above. How about units like the Shunyata PS-8 or the new PS-10 or Everest distributors? Have you tested any of the Shunyata conditioners? I think Audiophiles would benefit greatly from know which products ARE good. I think distributors with metal construction would be better than plastic. But what if the metal is ferromagnetic? Is that a problem? Does your opinion on optimal power distribution products differ if the incoming line to your rig is a 20amp line direct from the breaker box (like mine)? Thanks. Regards from Chicago!
Amir, So it appears that power conditioners and regenerators are at the least suspect in their effectiveness. As for high end power distributors, have you ever tested Shunyata Research power distributors such as the Hydra Sigma or Hydra Alpha or the Venom Series? If so, please provide a link and what were the results? Thanks. Regards, RJ
Congratulations Amir! I'm still laughing out loud about a comment saying that they're "saving phase". This pretty much confirmed it. Your efforts are very much appreciated.
I Am so glad that you are around to really test Hifi stereo devices, and I think Paul M, which I follow on TH-cam, which I will most likely not do anymore, has come to a real problem here. I am a McIntosh guy and love their devises, but the same happened here, I returned their Powerplant back to the dealer for the reason it had absolutely no effect on the sound, even blind tested it with friends. The dealer was really nice and thoughtful, so I ended up buying more Mac devises.....I think Paul really has fooled his customers into believing the gospel, without any proof what so ever. I would return this product and demand the money back, it's a scam. Now, what about the other PS Audio products. PS Audio, you simply cannot do this to you customer base in a modern world, "it can sink ships".....Honesty please??????
Again thank you for this measurement review. Very enjoyable and informative and saved me a lot of money. Cutting to the chase you would recommend I come straight from the wall plug with a good quality extension socket with no filtering devices at all( eg mains conditioning filters).
Great video, again. Paul just doesn't get it. I think its particularly bad on his part when he, as CEO, can only resort to name calling and making disparaging remarks, rather pathetic IMO. That's usually how it works when you can't defend your position. He, Paul, would be better off if he just admitted he and his company got caught with specs that aren't quite right for a product no one really needs. I think their PowerPlant falls into the $5,000/meter "audiophile" speaker cables & power cords category, they don't make a difference, but there are people who have to have them in their system, so there are manufactures who'll make it for them. Please keep up the unbiased measurements, you provide a great service to the community and are a great reference source when I'm shopping for gear. Loving seeing how the various units compare to the others in their category.
Thanks for clearing my headspace for more info and less babble. Paul is off his rocker and my respect for him has plummeted. Well done, you're a great scientist.
Great video! I think I'll be selling my P12. You and Gene at Audioholics ARE giving the community a great service. There's so much dishonesty in this business. Keep it up!!!!
Poor PSaudio engineers(( They are are under pressure from their boss, have to find weak point in ASR review and trying to poke any possible hole in process. Fortunately for them, their target customers do not read ASR reviews.
Amir--thank you for the work you're doing. To my mind it's not unreasonable for consumers to expect that manufacturers back up their subjective claim that "it will improve the sound of your system" with some empiric evidence when they're charging thousands of dollars for a component. My comment is directed to the audio industry as a whole and not to any one manufacturer.
Basically, back to the roots this is one of the first things to educate to the intern students is to have a 'grasp' of understanding and gain understanding of what and how they do and how they are observing and taking measurements, to use and chose the right equipment and have understanding about their influence and the measurement faults, this is key in all aspects!
Amir, thank you for sharing your knowledge. Many times you can argue of sound quality but we listen partially with our ears but mainly with our brains which is affected with so many factors, but you can not argue with instruments measurement perfectly reproducible from anywhere else. That is science.
Paul McGowan is a salesman, he is not an engineer. Therefore he spews the same sales schtick he accustom too. He sells quackery and its incredible how many people fall for his crap and others crap. Starting with quite a number of the YT talking heads.
I cant stand any of those "reviewer" talking heads like guttneberg, darko and the like. If they dont measure any of the equipment they review, at the very least sinad for amps and dacs and in room frequency response for speakers then theyre just payed adds.
Wow! I love you man! PS power plants are a pixie of crap. I reproduced all your measurements in their P20! The hi current outlets SUCK! More impedance than plugging in the wall.
I am not surprised he replied like that. I used to watch Paul's videos when new to the hobby, but I quickly moved on. The guy gets asked reader questions (a good concept so far) but his replies are always very vague and almighty. He presents himself as an old man with ultimate knowledge and experience, he can't be wrong. I work with electronics, restore old tube radios as a hobby, his "lab" didn't impress me. You can't argue a waveform or a spectrum result unless you are in a cult or in bad faith.
@@joesmith4443 How many times are you going to cut and paste this same tired steam of innuendo and heavily curated observation leading to a thoroughly banal conclusion?
@@_kardus Geez he doesn’t measure what comes out when music files are played. He doesn’t even know what a FGPA does in the DACs he is review do which The DAC manufacture widely advertise by the DAC especially the Chinese DACs that do the same exact SINAD measurements he does! And they LOVE when he reviews them with similar to close to measurements with same exact measurement tools they use 🥱🙄
Take a look at the smsl or topping advertisement you’ll see the same tests almost exactly what He’s measuring and what he “highly recommends” are!
He has zero to no understanding of circuit design nor of dac chip topology, their implementation nor never mentions what digital filters are used in what dac or chip set are used and how effective they are for different formats like DSD and PCM.
None of this goes into his so-called tests and measurements
@@_kardus yes but I’ve seen Amir along with his “Donors” crap on input from vendors regardless if the information is accurate and factual simply because he and his “Donors” are cynical or don’t like their products or digital format nor fully understands them or don’t want to!
@@joesmith4443 Amir is financially independent, but that doesn't mean he must live off fresh water and love. He has every right to get renumerated for his time and investment.
Don't forget that for a 'hobby tester' he has more testing equipments than some audio companies....
@@dihydrotestosterone look I’m not saying what Amir does is not valuable and it’s nice to have a “customer reports” or “buying beware” watchdog. It’s just that what he created is somewhat of cult (probably not by his design)
I don’t mind that he is fiery but sometimes his opinions become dogma maybe not by him but by others’. We all a flawed and have blind spots!
I am not gonna comment anymore on his TH-cam page I’ve said what I want to say. It’s really not fair to the anymore to keep a grudge and keep talking negative about him and his content.
I’m glad that he’s doing well financially and can do what he wants with his time now. Geez who the heck doesn’t want that…I wish him all the best in life and believe what he’s doing is value content to his viewership and not easy especially to take criticism like mine. So there’s no point to being a “troll” and hanging on to resentment because before you know it you turn into that cynical person trying to get likes from snarky sarcastic comments. :)
Amir, you are the most productive member of the audio community. Please keep doing exactly what you are doing, it is an invaluable service to the actual community of audio enthusiasts.
The PS audio had a lower harmonic by 10db but the S/N ratio of the 60hz was 20db worse than mains after the PS audio... You'd think the 60hz is more critical.
You are definitely one of the most valuable member of the community. Don't take **** from Paul. This is classic damage control. The fact that they showed up with consumer grad voltmeters speaks volume about the legitimacy of their product. Even I do better testing in my living room when I DIY stuff...
Yep the PS stands for Pure Shit apparently.
You are correct. Paul's catty comment about Amir being a "sour puss" tells you all you need to know. The "community" Paul is referring to is the audio rip off community.
Fluke handheld multimeters aren't "consumer grade" - they're actually reference pro-grade devices. They are, however, only multimeters and as such aren't usually designed to provide the sort of spectral information that was useful for Amir to make his point.
@@phpn99 Amir has his own confirmation biases, don’t be fooled! He’s human after all with a huge ego as well!
Normally I would agree with you however Amir does receive donations from his members on his website that is fully disclosed but also means he too can be susceptible to confirmation biases and group thinking do to loyalty to those that contribute financially. Giving members “titles” like “Major Contributor” and “industry insider” could also be an authority fallacy
I see data “gaps” in some of his measurements. Like he often only measures SINAD in DACs with 1khz sine wave without actually testing real life usage of the DACs when and how they behave with actual music files being played and disclose those measurements of well recorded not so well recorded music files.
So you gotta take the data with a grain of salt… nonetheless it’s good to those that check on others’ claims as “watchdogs” and present their findings.
@@joesmith4443 wouldn't you agree though that Amir is far more transparent with his approach than say PS Audio or audioquest? And isn't more information always a good thing?
A big thanks from this community member. I am an audio enthusiast and an engineer. There is too much snake oil in the consumer audio industry. Pls keep the facts coming!
I think that PS Audio "response video" was the first time I've ever seen them measure ANYTHING from their own equipment. Paul surrounds himself with his factory-lab equipment and never runs any tests until ASR actually started testing PSA equipment. ASR is the best thing to happen to consumer Audio since Hirsh-Houck lab printed reports in "Stereo Review" magazine.
Thank you. Funny thing is, he did a video a year ago where he said they should start doing measurements to teach me how to do it. Of course, that never happened. If what they showed here is their idea of "proper measurements," I don't think even if they did something, it would be worth paying attention to.
There is a lot of money at stake in audiophile products that do nothing, based solely on marketing phrases, but nothing real and objective.
Manufacturers make huge profits from them.
Thanks for your work, you make a great benefit for the community of people who like to listen to music
The "community" to which Mr. McGowan refers is most likely his notion of the PS Audio "hifi family" -- deep-pocketed folks who are devoted to the brand and hang on his every word as if he was some sort of audio oracle rather than a marketing-oriented CEO with a smattering of the rather basic technical knowledge typical of a self-taught audio hobbyist who fancies himself (some sort of) an engineer. Such folks abound in the "high-end" sector of the audio industry -- Mr. McGowan is just more prominent as a presenter and advice dispenser than most of his counterparts at other companies.
Companies like that need to take a hard look at their future. Boomers with deep pockets are literally a dying breed and I bet make up 75% of the 'audiophile' community. The up and coming generations just don't have the pockets to buy $500 DACs let alone $7000 'mains filters'. A lot of luxury markets will dwindle away as the population has less and less financial power.
Amir has his own confirmation biases and “community”, don’t be fooled!
Amir does receive donations from his members on his website that is fully disclosed but also means he too can be susceptible to confirmation biases and group thinking do to loyalty to those that contribute financially. Giving members “titles” like “Major Contributor” and “industry insider” could also be an authority* fallacy
I see data “gaps” in some of his measurements. Like he often only measures SINAD in DACs with 1khz sine wave without actually testing real life usage of the DACs when and how they behave with actual music files being played and disclose those measurements of well recorded and not so well recorded music files to see how the digital filters and firmware performs!
So you gotta take the data with a grain of salt… nonetheless it’s good to those that check on others’ claims as “watchdogs” and present their findings.
*Edited
@@joesmith4443 What is "authoritarian fallacy"? I've never heard that one before.
You seem to be copy&pasteing this same comment all over these comments, I've seen at least 3 identical ones from you so far. Any chance you are here to run damage control for PSaudio?
@@alkestos Haha, no Paul’s claims are also an authority fallacy. Anyone in the right mind would know that AC regenerator is a vanity item that most people will not buy for 6 grand whether it has little to no affect on Audio! (Common sense, I don’t know why Amir is review this…) PS12 is outside “normal” peoples audio budget anyway! It’s an illogical fallacy to spot as a critical thinking skill much like like “ad hoc argument or straw man arguments” (click link to get full description) which means someone who say has Microsoft credentials and worked on Audio projects limited to 2007 using his authority to make “claims” because of that supposed social status. Like a doctor who’s trying to sell you snake oil vitamins based on him graduating from one of the top medical schools in the world with half truth junk science.
Cut and paste to get the word out. Not all glitter is gold!
th-cam.com/video/mgqM6xeZHNM/w-d-xo.html
@@joesmith4443 Oh, appeal to authority or alternatively authority fallacy. Authoritarian on the other hand is something completely different and the reason for my confusion. They are logical fallacies, as something illogical is already fallacious, by definition.
When Paul says "not part of the community" what he really means is "you're shattering the illusion" that he created and his customers enjoy. For a man who says he doesn't like drama, casting aspersions on your intent and abilities comes awfully naturally to him. For all his apparent friendliness, he's an ugly character when backed into a corner.
Someone said he also smells bad.
I bet Paul is a real SOB, he strikes me as that kind of person.
Well said.
I’ve met people like Paul in life, they’re narcissistic sociopaths. Oh and he’s probably too cheap to buy proper testing equipment for his “engineers”!
i just happened to see his video on mqa and one of the first things he said in response to the viewers question was "nothing in audio is straight forward buddy". when actually there is a lot of stuff that's straight forward. maybe just not much that comes from him. especially if you're trying to weasel $6000 out of somebody for a power strip.
Thank you Amir. You single handedly got PS Audio to show us their true colors.
Amir, you are the most important guy in the audio industry. Because of you, all these companies will need to improve their products...
No, they don't, sadly. All they need do is appeal to audiofools.....easy pickins....
we need MORE true PROFESSIONALS like YOU reviewing audiophile gear!
Amir has his own confirmation biases, don’t be fooled! He’s human after all with a huge ego as well!
Normally I would agree with you however Amir does receive donations from his members on his website that is fully disclosed but also means he too can be susceptible to confirmation biases and group thinking do to loyalty to those that contribute financially. Giving members “titles” like “Major Contributor” and “industry insider” could also be an authoritarian fallacy
I see data “gaps” in some of his measurements. Like he often only measures SINAD in DACs with 1khz sine wave without actually testing the DACs when and how they behave with actual music files being played.
So you gotta take the data with a grain of salt… nonetheless it’s good to those that check on others’ claims as “watchdogs.”
@@joesmith4443 what a load of .... You can't fool the measurments !.
@@joesmith4443 lol well I've seen here and there people try to fight measurements by attacking him, like what is he doing drowning lines he likes and say it is from measurements?
@@r423fplip you sure can. That’s why data sheets are lab test evaluation boards no dac has all the dac chip manufacturers requirements they take short cuts and make design choices that can cheat measurement tools or even exceed some dac chip spec lab tests for instance what it can handle under certain stress tests they don’t give you real world user conditions. It just passes the required demands of the load it suppose to handle not maximize its performance. Amir to my knowledge isn’t an electronics engineer. He doesn’t know about circuits nor how to test them. He can’t recognize the Circuit designs either. He doesn’t do tear down of the DACs he’s review ether. He doesn’t even know interpret the technical specifications and requirements of the dac chip datasheets and to properly read their schematics. Some on his forum do and have pointed out his shortcomings in this very important area of audio equipment manufacturing designs and their flaws despite what the measurements say! 🤦♂️
@@MrVizzleAmir doesn’t design the stuff only tests them nor has the knowledge to design he only checks the distortion via inputs and out specs of a dac like a technician would and unlike an engineer that knows what he’s testing designs like the circuits, etc
Amir should just state this for “transparency.”
Excellent data and measurement-based response! Thank you for doing this for the community! The consumer community!
Yes but in fairness to Paul he did say that there was a firmware update that affected the measurements. For accuracy Amir should do this check as well.
@@joesmith4443 so basically he sold a product with faults that needed a firmware update. Amir, said he used the latest firmware !.
@@r423fplip Amir didn’t. Btw I’m not advocating for PS audio crap just believe in fairness
@joesmith4443
SMITH...... YOU AT IT AGAIN?..... PASTING THE SAME REPLIES TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE?.....
-- Nothing "is up." Amir is a rather well-off entrepreneur and retired executive-level engineering manager who owns a well established custom installation business -- he doesn't need to "monetize" ASR. There's no way his (relatively recent) activity of posting video versions of his reviews on U-Toob and (the typically small-$$) contributions to the ASR website's upkeep are enough to even cover the five-digit cost of his AP analyzer, let alone the six-digits he paid for his Klippel NFS.
Bottom line: the guy's ASR-related activity is a 99.44% pure labor of love and your cynicism is entirely unfounded and unwarranted. IOW, you can't "say why" because you don't know WTF you're talking about!
I saw that Paul put out a video and I was hoping you would do a follow up video as well. I am grateful that you and others have stepped up to the plate to educate people about the snake oil that some company's try and push.
Hi
Do you have the link for the video?
@@nadeekadias8285 Here: th-cam.com/video/C8Gede0IQio/w-d-xo.html
Awesome, thank you Amir for explaining to us ordinary costumers .
Your work is extremely important.
Being a thorn in the side of big business is the only way to keep them honest. Good work.
You are an asset to the hifi industry good sir. Good on you to highlight the marketing lies perpetrated by many with vested interests.
That was passionate !! :-) Praise to you for your professionalism. Very unfortunate that PS Audio does not acknowledge flaws and attempt to fix them, which would not prevent them flogging useless gear, but that at least it would perform as per spec and expectations. I was very also surprised to see the engineer noodle around with voltmeters; simply not serious.
These manufacturers are so used to everyone buying their snake oil, they don't know what to do when someone calls out their BS. Thanks Amir for keeping them accountable!
They live in an echo chamber of sycophants who can't face the reality because they have invested so much money that admitting they were had is too painful.
@@westsider1442 exactly! The Emperor has no clothes great you proved your point! So who cares if this is snake oil. What Normal people would spend 6 grand on an AC reGenerator. Heck I’m happy for Paul, I’d do the same thing if the demand was there. There’s a sucker born everyday.
Amir’s 4 or 5 video on PS audio and Paul. ASR forum is obsessed with this guy and his company!
Amir could have simply refused to review this on his channel for something we are all more interesting in being tested!
@@joesmith4443 PS audio has cheaper snake oil. Amir is the consumer reports of the audiophile community. i have zero sympathy for scammers
@@joesmith4443 wrote, "Heck I’m happy for Paul, I’d do the same thing if the demand was there. There’s a sucker born everyday."
IOW, Joe, given the chance for some quick money you'd operate without business ethics.
Copy that...
@@editorjuno plenty of products on the market that don’t work as intended! It’s a free market. Unless you are saying audio gear should be regulated with accurate information, measurements about products sold.
If so I’m 100% on board with you Bruce.
10-4!
I own and enjoy PS audio equipment. I’m so happy you’re doing this testing. Being open and honest is the only way to go. For years I’ve been tired of seeing “high end” audio companies get a free pass. They should be able to adequately substantiate their claims. Keep up the good work!
I sincerely hope you don't own their Power related equipment -_-
@NickPavlica
If you are lucky enough to own their equipement, especially this amplifier worth no more than 500$ in raw parts, you are fortunate enough to take him to court, claim all of your costs, plus the cost of this machine and also claim damadges, and compensation for being miss-lead by false claims.....
I wish i had baught one of those machines, in my country, (uk) we would have got an "extradition treety" and put him and his son in prision for "obtaining money by deception" (basically fraud).
You seem like a really decent chap to me, and im sorry you have been "conned" into buying these products, perhaps this news hasnt circulated through "fleabay" yet and you can still get some of your money back on the rest of the products you own from ps audio.......
Good luck buddy, and im sorry this has happened to you.... ☹️
I own a PS Audio BHK 250 power amp which I bought (used) to replace my ML #27 - and I never regretted this decision. I started to like PS Audio after my experiences with the BHK 250. However this episode makes me a bit uncomfortable. If you screw up - own it! It’s simple. The moment PS Audio went personal in its defense, they as much as admitted (imho) that they screwed up.
Thanks Amir for your addition of measurements to the community!
For the most part, Amir isn't saying it's a bad product (with a few nagging issues). If it's working for you, continue to enjoy your product. The biggest issue here is what appears to be possible false advertising and a failure to have a productive conversation with the community.
do not bother, some parts that are said in this video in my opinion are at least very debatable if not suggestive or plainly wrong. The part from 8:30 onward here is most misleading: voltage drop in his slide is stated as 4 volt, but Amir calls it 2-3V; the power drawn from the device (correct value 300W) he calls 700 or more watts; so while he exaggerates on the root cause of the voltage drop by more than factor 2, he understates the effect by factor 2, then concludes obviously it is irrelevant; Amir‘s argumentation appears quite biased here.
The key knowledge of a company such as PS Audio is doing relevant measurements- so that their equipment actually sounds accurate to source. doing just some measurements may be interesting to look at but might be misleading (noise spectrum for example: whats the load used - Amir doesn’t tell).
Well tx for reading if you made it until this point. :)
@@gioponti6359 I guess it was 300W per switch, so 900 in total...
But in a way that's besides the point I wanted to make. Amir shure is not very diplomatic, but Paul's reply was personal and I think this is wrong. A discussion which could be scientific or at last taste-related becomes polar - well those are the times, I guess.
Happy 2022 to all of you!
You can't make an ac regenerator that improves audio performance. So even if this weren't a bad design, it's STILL snake oil. There was intent to market something that cannot improve audio quality as an audio product. There was no "mistake"
@@josch614 true - 300W per switch and a bit nasty on both sides it feels
Amir, what's there to say that hasn't been already said a dozen times. Your work is greatly appreciated. That is all.
So did I!
On Amir's recommendation I bought my Topping Head Phone amp which cost a fraction of my previous "high end" device (don't ask which one, it's embarrassing..)
Thank God, someone bought it of me on account of its "brand name". I hope he is not reading this! 😀
After watching this video I wanted to start with the technical part but then felt it affected Amir so much I wanted to say…anyone with any technical expertise is 100% on your side. Not that this is about taking sides, but it is about the truth. Now the technical part. After working in the electrical industry for 40 years which included power quality analysis AND UPS sales I can say with certainty that power is the most misunderstood topic and subject to voodoo in the industry. Had many customers who were certain they had some power issues and wanted an audit who’s was not easy or cheap who were very disappointed when the results did not show what they were expecting.
Amir, your measurements and presentations have always been objective and professional. You have my total admiration. PS Audio and Paul, on the other hand, are cornered and trying to find a way out this charade with personal attacks and unfounded allegations. I used to respect Paul but his behavior in this matter has turned me off.
The Empire Strikes Back.... and Return of the Jedi. ASR members and folks that have some basic electronics knowledge know to which camp each player belongs to. This PS Audio PowerPlant saga shoud be settled for good. We hope... LOL Paul from PSA says that he won't engage Amir on a point by point basis. That's what you say when your points are technically indefensible. Furthermore, in some instances, some people that can't defend their points with valid arguments will resort to attacking the character of their opponent because in a moment of panic, they react in fear and don't know what else to do. Paul McGowan, in such instances, it's best to stay quiet and not to engage in further discussions to dig oneself deeper in the hole.
Congratulations, Amir, you have managed to find a product more controversial than a speaker cable. (Well they had it coming, an AC power re-generator, if there was ever a snake oil product...)
In any case, I am so glad there are people like you who don't allow them self to be mobbed by the audio lobby and provide us to their best ability with their side of the story. Thanks for that and I enjoy your videos.
Amir has his own confirmation biases and “community”, don’t be fooled!
Amir does receive donations from his members on his website that is fully disclosed but also means he too can be susceptible to confirmation biases and group thinking do to loyalty to those that contribute financially. Giving members “titles” like “Major Contributor” and “industry insider” could also be an authoritarian fallacy
I see data “gaps” in some of his measurements. Like he often only measures SINAD in DACs with 1khz sine wave without actually testing real life usage of the DACs when and how they behave with actual music files being played and disclose those measurements of well recorded and not so well recorded music files to see how the digital filters and firmware performs!
So you gotta take the data with a grain of salt… nonetheless it’s good to those that check on others’ claims as “watchdogs” and present their findings.
@@joesmith4443 -- Nothing "is up." Amir is a rather well-off entrepreneur and retired executive-level engineering manager who owns a well established custom installation business -- he doesn't need to "monetize" ASR. There's no way his (relatively recent) activity of posting video versions of his reviews on U-Toob and (the typically small-$$) contributions to the ASR website's upkeep are enough to even cover the five-digit cost of his AP analyzer, let alone the six-digits he paid for his Klippel NFS.
Bottom line: the guy's ASR-related activity is a 99.44% pure labor of love and your cynicism is entirely unfounded and unwarranted. IOW, you can't "say why" because you don't know WTF you're talking about!
@joesmith4443
SMITH...... YOU STILL COPYING AND PASTEING THE SAME REPLIES TO PEOPLE??????
PITY YOU CANT THINK FOR YOURSELF.......
-- Nothing "is up." Amir is a rather well-off entrepreneur and retired executive-level engineering manager who owns a well established custom installation business -- he doesn't need to "monetize" ASR. There's no way his (relatively recent) activity of posting video versions of his reviews on U-Toob and (the typically small-$$) contributions to the ASR website's upkeep are enough to even cover the five-digit cost of his AP analyzer, let alone the six-digits he paid for his Klippel NFS.
Bottom line: the guy's ASR-related activity is a 99.44% pure labor of love and your cynicism is entirely unfounded and unwarranted. IOW, you can't "say why" because you don't know WTF you're talking about!
Thanks Amir for revisiting this. Everything you've said here makes sense. Measurements are everything.
The idea that cleaning AC prior to the audio device AC filter, to increase clarity at the outputs is based on ignorance on the buyer's part, and greed on the manufacturer/designer. It's REALLY dumb to filter high power when it's not needed. The device needs low voltage DC. That's it! Cleaning high voltage AC requires expensive parts. Doing it TWICE is pure silliness. The A/B listening test is what they should be spending money on. Who would pass that? Same thing with 'cables'. Why don't they invest in AB testing and PROVE their assertions of signal improvement/enhancement? They can't. Snake oil sells, and it's very cynical for people to make money on people's ignorance. Thanks for following up to help consumers, Amir. GREAT SERVICE.
Great review, and as technical engineer (electronics) I know you are correct and you reviews are honest and objective.
People that buy that things don't understand electronics at all, they are believers.
Well done ,I am 100 % on your side revealing the ugly Truth.
Who cares if this is snake oil. What Normal person would spend 6 grand on an AC reGenerator? Heck I’m happy for Paul, I’d do the same thing if the demand was there. There’s a sucker born everyday.
Amir could have simply refused to review this on his channel for something we are all more interesting in being tested!
Amir’s 4 or 5th video on PS audio and Paul. ASR forum is obsessed with this guy and his company!
@@joesmith4443
Don't think so..
When someone sends you a piece of gear asking if it can be measured and an unbiased opinion given, you simply put it on the test bench and do a proper Lab testing, following a scientific approach (with the best instruments available for that purpose, and certainly, not ...multimeters!).
Amir is *not reviewing this*
It's simply put, a Lab Test and, a very detailed one at that.
@@joesmith4443 you need to chill
@@m.9243 This is his 5th video on Paul and Ps Audio. There’s a sucker born every day Amir’s not gonna change that fact because he’s got $100,000 testing equipment.
Someone wants this tested go to an electronics store nearby where you live and support a local businesses owner and get it tested by technicians for less then the cost to ship it to Amir and back! Or better yet get it tested during a trial period and send it back to Paul for your money back if it doesn’t measure or do what is supposed to do! Then write an online review of your experience. Geez, y’all make sound like Amir is the only viable option here!
@@junior-OG I’m chilling like a villain 😎
I am a bit surprised that Paul haven’t realized that he is in a hole and should stop digging …
Again, thank you for saving me $6000.00. I have a Power Plant Premier that I was planning on upgrading. Fool me once...
Excellent video! Thank-you Amir. Once again you are clearly and unambiguously dispelling false claims that is so prevalent in this industry. Let's call out the con men.
So strange that the high current outlets reduced power and the standard outlets had little effect. The irony
A couple of years ago I bought a brand new P20 and sold it within 6-months. It added so much noise to my system. I sent it back to PS Audio twice in that time to be checked out. They never could find a problem. It sounded like DC was being added to the line. I know some seem to love their products. For me it was the worst. Matter of fact I sold all my PS Audio gear in that time. I was extremely disappointed after spending tens of thousands of dollars with them.
I have no experience with PSA, other than watching Paul do his videos, which never seem to answer the questions asked, they are always vague to me, unlike Amir who is an actual engineer with real test equipment that CAN answer the questions.
Now, I do not agree with the one and zeros all of the time, as I have heard things differently in my system. And this is nothing against Amir and his videos, which I do subscribe to. I am not always in 100% agreement, and that is not a slap against Amir and the work he has put into this venture of bringing us the hard facts. I can say the same about Gene over at his Audiohaulics site, I respect both men for their works, as they have both educated me in this foggy world of Hi-Fi...
To my point, the gear we have access to today is lightyears ahead of what we could get just a few years ago. The quality and manufacturing costs, along with factory direct manufacturers, it is just another world in regards to cost and performance out here.
My thinking, and not knocking you for your PSA purchases in the past... My thinking, the gear that Paul sells is for another group of folks, folks that have not kept up, spend more for better sound. That would have been true a few years ago, but like I said above, we are finally at another level in quality audio gear. Today we can do more with less, and do not have to break the bank to find that sound that was literally out of reach for many just a few years ago.
Paul is slick, and I bet a real SOB to work with and for. I picked that up in a number of his videos, and the above just solidifies that in my mind. The shaking hands of the tech says it all...
I see Paul as a dinosaur in this industry, selling nonsense.
Also the modules and parts used from what I can tell are inexpensive. Shiny metal boxes that are mostly empty.
@@dillonsaudio Empty? They are full of hopes and dreams. And guile.
Excellent critique, especially identifying the apparent partial power regeneration. Unfortunate that Paul resorted to a personal attack rather than addressing the issues, it seems that he is unable to do so.
I have stopped watching videos done by owner of PS Audio, after he said that quality of USB cable makes a audible difference.
Great stuff.
Seems the modern audio industry is a closed loop of misleading manufacturers and a "community" of unqualified "reviewers" simply parroting marketing and biased subjective opinions.
Both should be shown up for what they really are, it's for the benefit of consumers at the end of the day.
Thanks for doing your "hobby" in the most professional and scientific manner. Speaking as a science Ph.D. with significant reviewer & editorial experience. Too bad Paul resorts to ad hominem attacks; at least now you know for sure you are on the right track! Sad and funny at the same time. Thanks for being a extraordinarily high-value leader in the audio community!
Yes it's a bit disappointing. Paul could have just taken it on board and said he hears the measurements and will try to improve on some of the findings but this isn't his only product and he will let his listeners decide for themselves.
@@easternlethal The "I hear differences even if measurements do not show anything" is Paul's standard retort. But even that he does not back up with anything approaching blind A-B testing. So it is his word as a sales person against extraordinarily sophisticated measurements and explanations (plus listening tests) by a financially dis-interested party (ASR). As they say on crime shows "follow the money".
How do you know when someone has a PhD?…
@Douglas Blake LOL, your default position is to assume everyone has a PhD?! :-D You'll also notice that the sentence from Daniel doesn't actually contain any other info than his credentials. Tells me all I need to know. Speaking as an Engineering PhD.
@Douglas Blake It's all that can be interpreted from your comment. You must be a little slow (or maybe English isn't your PhD?)
PSaudio had to do something to defend the buyers of the expensive gear their customers bought in order to improve the sound quality. I’m glad that you have measured the P12, I will never buy such devices although I considered it once. Changing the speaker positioning by a small bit has lots more impact than a regenerator could do (in the case they don’t make it worse). 👍 for Amir. We need more Amir in audio so we can spend our money on the right equipments
What's truly incredible is what Amir always brings up at the end of these videos: just spend a half hour having someone plug in/disconnect the power plant and show a single blind test that you can tell the night and day difference. Don't have the instrumentation to measure? Fine. Just show that you can reliably tell the difference. It's so simple yet they never will do it.
Amir you are a hero to this community...
I can't believe Paul's response. Accusing you of a conflict of interest and saying you're a negative part of the audio community is ridiculous. Sorry Paul, you can't hand wave measurements. Keep them honest, Amir!
Paul is annoyed because these products are his main selling point. Learned a lot from him to be honest, but if you listen long enough, he mixes in these woo woo claims more often than i like....
Even if Amir had some sort of conflict of interest here, Paul is defending a product he himself is selling. Talk about conflict of interest, heh.
@@CyberBeep_kenshi He says things people with expensive do-nothing-boxes like to hear.
@@alkestos he is an excellent salesman, i give him that.....
Paul is like a politician. He does have good knowledge, knows how to smile but can be manipulative
You've saved so many people so much money my friend... Don't ever stop.
The slide at 19:08 is all you need to see to know that this product is not doing what Ps Audio claim.
I go back to my pervious point here that I made after viewing the earlier videos in this series/story: Companies like PS Audio shouldn't be SCOLDING Amir at all for what he is doing and what he is revealing with his advanced testing. Instead, they should be HIRING him - as a DESIGN CONSULTANT. If someone has discovered flaws, shortcomings or limitations in your products, your very first priority should be to resolve and FIX those problems so as to be able to IMPROVE the product that you are ultimately selling to your customers from that point forward. Don't just reflexively go on the defensive about it and try and deflect/minimize what they are saying. Actually LISTEN to what they are telling you and see them as an ADVOCATE instead of adversary. Then work to leverage their knowledge, abilities and strengths so that you can ultimately become better at what you are doing. That's how healthy, positive, constructive, mature adults (and companies) behave...or at least that's how they are supposed to.
On the positive side, it heats the room if you live in a cold area.
Amir, you are way too polite :). Imagine spending Thousands on a turbo for your car only for it to 1. Do nothing to performance or 2. decrease its performance output. High-end audio equipment needs to show and prove what it does on the tin, not just fancy marketing speak. Well done for your efforts.
Thanks Amir you are the best, your comprehensive test seems to show that as advertised it’s an AC regenerator to the extend that it’s able to regenerate the noise and distortion to almost the same level as the mains but with stable voltage so basically we have a fancy voltage regulator.
Well put, thank you for speaking with logic and reason.
Amir, many thanks for your hard work. Keep your cool and keep doing what you do best. We all appreciate your knowledge and insights into audio products.
Same story over and over... Every time I see a manufacturer of a shady product take up the challenge when he is called out by someone who know his craft, he's bound to crash and burn.
Thank you so much, Amir, for fighting the good fight and standing up to all the snake oil vendors!
If you don't have arguments, personal attacks are what's left. What a disaster for PS.
where this is really actually the disaster is all those reviewers that were high-profile and use one of these devices and said it made their system better.
that's where the real snowfall is going to come in.
@Mickey....
Yer..... all liars, now is the time to collect their names, unsubscribe, and block their content as they too are as dishonest as this mcgowan scumbag and his "pure shite audio" company......
I have every faith that atleast 1 american (who realises that the king has no clothes on) will report to the police that they have been conned or duped into buying shite, shite they cant test for themselves...... its called "obtaining money by deception" basically fraud......
I replied as i liked your comment, and think we are like minded people.....
Take care and best of wishes... 👍🏻🙂
Excellent response from Amir. Thanks for your service
the community of snake oil salesmen is really unhappy with you Amir. They are a tight community. My favorite part of your impact on the industry is when you highlight super expensive, poor performing stuff. I bought several things based on your recommendation (Wharfedale speakers, dx3 pro+) and somehow non of them came from Bellevue. Weird.
Amir, not part of the community? I've invited Amir to be on a podcast on my channel, and again at my Summit. He agreed both times! I've emailed Paul and his team numerous times, I shook his hand when I saw him in person and I invited him personally to be on. He's still never been on. Who's not part of the "community"?
Yea but you don't have a 100,000 dollar set up yet so you can't be part of Paul's "community". Audiophiles are gatekeepers of their own bullshit hobby. People who can smell the bullshit don't want to be part of that community anyway. I appreciate that you're a man of the people Joe!
PS Audio provides products for a market of consumers who need third party validation that their systems sound good. The products become the experience and more expensive products provide greater affirmation that the system is good. It's hard to fault a business for feeding this market as long as there are happy customers, but Amir is red pilling a lot of folks right now. And I'm sure the boutique placebo feeders are feeling threatened as are many of the "reviewers" that enable this market.
If Paul is so confident in his product, he would have sued Amir. The reason he is not just reinforced the fact that he is a charlatan.
The claims made by the manufacturer for the product cannot be substantiated. Its as simple as that. In Australia those manufacturers would find themselves with a regulatory please explain. If they say it does something they need to back it up. False and misleading claims end up in court.
I think that in the realm of ‘high end’ audio, whatever that term represents? There are all to often, costly and ineffective solutions fabricated to solve, non existent or at least trivial issues. Let’s not forget, that whoever the manufacturer, whatever the product, it is conceived, designed and manufactured with one goal. To make money. Now, if that product fulfils the needs and specific requirements of the end user, or consumer, then it’s a win win scenario, the company could be on route to success.
Amir, the audiophile community need you and others like you to keep us grounded. We need a man of fact based science to help us navigate the road to audio nirvana. To give us the knowledge to differentiate between the shit and the shine. The snake oil and the real thing. Keep up the good work.
I like Paul, of P S Audio. I hold him in high regard and respect his opinions, even if I don’t always agree. The worrying thing is that I think he genuinely believes those regenerators will enhance the performance of your audio system.
Most importantly, enjoy the music.
Absolutely loved that Amir. Keep shining that light!
I can definitely say that I learned a lot here in a good way and gained a good amount of perspective.
@Joe Smith While it's true that we ALL have biases, even you I'm sure (and that's not intended as a derogatory statement), it's pretty hard to argue with the measurements Amir has made here. As an electronics engineer by education and trade, I am VERY BIASED towards measurements. I completely understand and agree with all of his measurements and claims made herein. Notwithstanding the validity and applicability of SINAD measurements, AC waveform measurements, and everything surrounding them, are fairly easy to measure. When a company makes claims in support of charging $6.000 for what is essentially an AC line filter, these claims have to be questioned. I for one appreciate what Amir is doing to dispel these outrageous claims.
There are plenty of audiophiles out there who won't care, and convince themselves that there is a difference in sound by using this device. My own experience tells me it's all mental justification on their part. If you have decent, and fairly stable AC power, as we're fortunate to have here in the US, there really is NO NEED for a device such as this. You could get a very good AC line filter, even one that's several hundreds of dollars, and be assured your system is well protected. That to me is a more justified approach, rather than spending $6,000 on AC power regulation, which would be better spent on premium audio gear, if that's your inclination.
Yep we all do but this is literally Amir’s 5th video about PS Audio and Paul’s claims. If you visit ASR there are literally forums devoted to trashing Paul and his company. Who cares if it’s snake oil most audio enthusiast are have modest budgets not thousands of dollars to buy this stuff anyway! Let’s be honest though no “normal” person is gonna buy a 6 grand ac regenerator!
Amir had a choice to review this or not and he did. That’s my issue with this. It didn’t measure that badly but it’s also didn’t have any audio difference either! Who in this entire comment section is interested in this product anyway? No me. You?
@33:20 is why i come to this channel on youtube and trust Amir's reviews and technical data. I can feel good about buying a piece of equipment and know it will work well. Most of all other equipment reviewers help sell their products.
There is one thing that I like for sure about you Amir and ASR: the honesty and competency with wich you portray hi-fi gears and their performance. But here you should ackowledge Paul is a great marketer because if it wasn't for him I wouldn't know about Madrona Digital. Give credits where credits are due :P
Very much appreciate you sharing your knowledge & sorting the wheat from the chaff.
By the comments on ps audio video, this has backfired spectacularly. Keep up the good work Amir, and don't wast anymore of your time with the P12.
Thank you for all your knowledge Amir, you're a true master
Well done Amir. Here are my comments I put on the PS video:
This test is pointless as the wrong test point is used. The test should be on the DC output from the audio equipment power supply. Any well designed power supply will measure exactly the same voltage and quality with or without this expensive box. The final test is on audio quality. If an improvement can really be heard then spend your money on better equipment with a good power supply. This box is a solution looking for a problem, a problem that does not exist in quality audio equipment.
Power supply design is very well understood and all competent manufacturers os audio equipment use power supplies that can handle dirty mains. Is PS equipment sounds better with this expensive magic box then their power supplies are very poor.
it'll probably get removed. surprised they even let you comment. i tried to leave a comment on a vid over there last week and it came back with an errror. i think they're blocking ASR members over there.
"Incorporating audiophile myths in their products" is just a terrific way to describe so many of the Hi-End Audiophile products. The 'Myths' are seductive as 'FM' and the best (generally most potentially profitable) of the Myths propagate thru the manufacturing and consumer Audiophile space until the next one arrives. The buying public for $50,000 audio systems is relatively small and the competition is fierce. There is a sameness to High End Audiophile products (loudspeaker designs!) as the prevalent Myth runs it's commercial course.
I am new to Amir's forum and I feel good whenever I watch one of the videos. Blind Tests!! Of course, basic Science. What is the relevant property to investigate? Does it make a difference in the result? The AP analyzer is a great tool in the hands of an audiophile with experience and a good set of experienced ears and some depth of knowledge. It's a Tool. Like a telescope for an Astrophysicist. It helps to be brilliant as Amir is, to put Art and Science together so convincingly and interestingly, but us regular folks can use the same process with great results. I use an AP 515 to help me zero in on things and sort out good ideas and not so good :( ideas.
P
Wow, I wish I had seen this before I bought their DAC. While I never bought into the expansive power plant claims, I would have expected that it might at least provide some improvements in dynamics with very challenging music played at high volumes, i.e. by using a massive capacitor bank. If that means some loss in maximum average power it would be worthwhile tradeoff. But apparently it doesn't even do that. These tests and their response to the test results totally blows their credibility I am sad to say.. Paul is a charming guy but this is really disappointing. However, their defensiveness is understanable given the existential threat reviews like this have for their business. Caveat emptor!
Oh man if you bought their perfectwave dac I feel bad for you
As someone seriously considering purchasing a few PS Audio products, I'm very thankful I stumbled upon your videos. Paul's rebuttal looked like amateur hour and it was obvious he was obfuscating/strawmanning. My search for hi-fi audio equipment starts anew.
Thanks for all your time and effort Amir. This information is priceless.
Not that I would ever be in the market for something such as whatever this thing is, it is much appreciated that you provide impartial information about it and other products.
Just for fun I checked Stereophile's review on this item and ... oh my, they loved it. Dramatic sonic improvements...
wonder if PS Audio ads are in their mag?
Whenever in doubt - ALWAYS FOLLOW THE SCIENCE !
"My hope is that he becomes a productive member of the community rather than a thorn in its side." That is so shameless lol. Selling an obscenely expensive product that doesn't even do what it purports. You are definitely a thorn in his side because you inform an otherwise naive crowd and prevent them from spending their money on silly products. What you do is important for the greater good. Kudos.
You have totally misconstrued this video. You know nothing of power regeneration and this video did not dispute that it didn't do that. This isn't a high-end channel but is biased against it. Contrary to what this guy says , many high-end amps have regulated power supplies but go ahead put your faith here. This guy is an idiot.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt "A P12 gives you greatly improved performance and safety from just plugging into the wall socket and far better dynamics, bass and a much bigger, open soundstage than any passive power conditioner on the market.". You think the product is being marketed as an AC voltage regulator? No. It is advertised as a product that makes a drastic difference in sound. If it does, then it is your duty to prove it. Most new amps have power supplies built in and although it can help some amps with hum and distortion and whatever, it can inversely introduce noise itself and be current limited for amps with very high power draws. How can you justify the price tag when this specific product does not regenerate AC like a typical AC-DC-AC generator does? You can buy Instrument grade AC power supplies for less.
They had it too good for too long.. about time someone clears up all this nonsense
That's really it, isn't it? The whole industry is spoiled by a non-critical press so they have never had to face the truth and reality.
Tell a lie once and all your truths become questionable……
I seem to recall PS Audio having a good credit/upgrade program. I wonder how many power plants they are about to be buying back, and how low they’ll push down the value on those units. I also wonder what products people we be trading those power plants out for. 🤔
Keep going, Amir. You're in the right, and in this world, where assholes try to manipulate the truth, that's a precious thing.
As soon as i saw the video on the ps audio channel my mind immediately taught off amir. And I was hoping the he made a response video and YESS he did.,,cant wait to get home from work roll myself a big Bob Marley and press play😁👍🏻
Amir you saved me $5,500 .. you sir are awesome 👍
Hats off to Amir . God bless you !
Great video & proper argumentation again! Please continue to fight for us and for the science 😀
Amir, great follow up video. I have a P12 and a P20. I wish you could do the same thorough analysis on the P20. But that aside. Ok so let’s say the PS Audio PowerPlants are not improving stereo performance and they are dropping power on the HC outlets. Also you had stated to me in the comments that you measured no benefit to the Audioquest Niagara power conditioners. So given that, if an audiophile with a large rig and power full amps, a DAC, Roon core, streamer, CD Transport needs something to plug all this gear into and all he has is one duplex wall outlet, he needs some sort of power strip, distributor or conditioner to accommodate all these devices. *So what do you recommend?* If I get rid of all my PowePlants what am I supposed to plug all my gear into, a cheap power strip from HomeDepot? I am sure there is something better than that? What do you recommend? Thanks.
Thanks for the kind words. I use an industrial power strip from Tripp-Lite (RS-1215). They have other configurations as well. They come with very thick AC cord and I have measured amplifiers producing 1,100 watts through it while powering the rest of my gear. Here is the Amazon link: smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000513OF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
@@AudioScienceReview Amir, thanks for the reply. I am all for calling out products that bamboozle the audiophile consumer. IMO Innuos is another such company that does this. I think there is an opportunity for you to expand your work in the power conditioning and regeneration area. Now that you have shown that a bunch of these units are not worth the money, now it’s a great opportunity to demonstrate what devices you recommend as replacements. So you mentioned the Tripp Lite strip above. How about units like the Shunyata PS-8 or the new PS-10 or Everest distributors? Have you tested any of the Shunyata conditioners? I think Audiophiles would benefit greatly from know which products ARE good. I think distributors with metal construction would be better than plastic. But what if the metal is ferromagnetic? Is that a problem? Does your opinion on optimal power distribution products differ if the incoming line to your rig is a 20amp line direct from the breaker box (like mine)? Thanks. Regards from Chicago!
Amir, So it appears that power conditioners and regenerators are at the least suspect in their effectiveness. As for high end power distributors, have you ever tested Shunyata Research power distributors such as the Hydra Sigma or Hydra Alpha or the Venom Series? If so, please provide a link and what were the results? Thanks. Regards, RJ
Congratulations Amir! I'm still laughing out loud about a comment saying that they're "saving phase". This pretty much confirmed it. Your efforts are very much appreciated.
I Am so glad that you are around to really test Hifi stereo devices, and I think Paul M, which I follow on TH-cam, which I will most likely not do anymore, has come to a real problem here. I am a McIntosh guy and love their devises, but the same happened here, I returned their Powerplant back to the dealer for the reason it had absolutely no effect on the sound, even blind tested it with friends. The dealer was really nice and thoughtful, so I ended up buying more Mac devises.....I think Paul really has fooled his customers into believing the gospel, without any proof what so ever. I would return this product and demand the money back, it's a scam. Now, what about the other PS Audio products. PS Audio, you simply cannot do this to you customer base in a modern world, "it can sink ships".....Honesty please??????
Again thank you for this measurement review. Very enjoyable and informative and saved me a lot of money. Cutting to the chase you would recommend I come straight from the wall plug with a good quality extension socket with no filtering devices at all( eg mains conditioning filters).
The fact that Paul from BS Audio did a "damage control" response to your video is the proof that you hit a nerve.
Good job :)
Paul is routinely caught in the Streisand Effect. Some guys never learn.
Great video, again. Paul just doesn't get it. I think its particularly bad on his part when he, as CEO, can only resort to name calling and making disparaging remarks, rather pathetic IMO. That's usually how it works when you can't defend your position. He, Paul, would be better off if he just admitted he and his company got caught with specs that aren't quite right for a product no one really needs. I think their PowerPlant falls into the $5,000/meter "audiophile" speaker cables & power cords category, they don't make a difference, but there are people who have to have them in their system, so there are manufactures who'll make it for them. Please keep up the unbiased measurements, you provide a great service to the community and are a great reference source when I'm shopping for gear. Loving seeing how the various units compare to the others in their category.
Good work Amir. You have made your point and provided the proof.
No need to put your energy in a further fight, just move on. 😏
Thanks for your eye opening work! I was blind before!
Thanks for clearing my headspace for more info and less babble. Paul is off his rocker and my respect for him has plummeted. Well done, you're a great scientist.
One wonders to what end does PS Audio hire qualified engineers for!
Looks like their job description is "make Paul happy"
Great video! I think I'll be selling my P12. You and Gene at Audioholics ARE giving the community a great service. There's so much dishonesty in this business. Keep it up!!!!
Poor PSaudio engineers(( They are are under pressure from their boss, have to find weak point in ASR review and trying to poke any possible hole in process.
Fortunately for them, their target customers do not read ASR reviews.
Amir--thank you for the work you're doing. To my mind it's not unreasonable for consumers to expect that manufacturers back up their subjective claim that "it will improve the sound of your system" with some empiric evidence when they're charging thousands of dollars for a component. My comment is directed to the audio industry as a whole and not to any one manufacturer.
Basically, back to the roots this is one of the first things to educate to the intern students is to have a 'grasp' of understanding and gain understanding of what and how they do and how they are observing and taking measurements, to use and chose the right equipment and have understanding about their influence and the measurement faults, this is key in all aspects!
Amir, thank you for sharing your knowledge. Many times you can argue of sound quality but we listen partially with our ears but mainly with our brains which is affected with so many factors, but you can not argue with instruments measurement perfectly reproducible from anywhere else. That is science.
If I could get everyone to agree with that, I can finally retire. :)
Paul McGowan is a salesman, he is not an engineer. Therefore he spews the same sales schtick he accustom too. He sells quackery and its incredible how many people fall for his crap and others crap. Starting with quite a number of the YT talking heads.
I cant stand any of those "reviewer" talking heads like guttneberg, darko and the like. If they dont measure any of the equipment they review, at the very least sinad for amps and dacs and in room frequency response for speakers then theyre just payed adds.
@@sergeysmelnik You gotta admire their endless stream of fluff and puff adjectives and hyperbole.
Well done Amir, stick to your good work and dont worry about smooth car salesmen that work in the audio industry such as PS audio
Wow! I love you man! PS power plants are a pixie of crap. I reproduced all your measurements in their P20! The hi current outlets SUCK! More impedance than plugging in the wall.
Ah, that is so reassuring to read. Just imagine how many people have used that outlet and praised how it made their gear sound better!
28:38 you can see by this point Paul escalated the conversation to insults and personal attacks, rather than arguments.