LITHIUM BATTERIES: What makes for a safe installation onboard? (according to the ABYC
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 เม.ย. 2023
- If you are interested in the full content of the ABYC E-13 standards, you can find them at: abycinc.org/store/viewproduct...
⚡ Get 10% OFF Dakota Lithium batteries with code RYANANDSOPHIE sitewide, on all orders at: bit.ly/43C4ulL
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18 months ago I upgraded from a 400amp AGM to a 400amp Lithium house bank, I used your lithium install video as a guide. It has operated without an issue. Let me thankyou for providing reliable and straight forward information to cruisers. I could not find one marine electrician who I felt was knowledgable enough to safely provide this service. Please keep providing sound advice regarding Lithium batteries, best Regards and safe sailing to you and the wife
Ah, the cookbook! Glad to hear it's still in the works ❤
Always get at least one laugh out loud when i watch your videos and i have to tell you your editing is getting crazy good Sophie!!! (loved the hand thingy!!!) Really good to see Ryan doing his tech videos again... missed them. This was soooo well laid out I can only imagine the mission prep that went into this one!
Thank your for this. As someone that has a dream of owning a fully electric sail boat this has given me a new resource to check when it comes to taking this from dream to reality. Stay safe out there and may you have meany days of fair winds and following seas.
Congratulations 🎉 on getting certified!
Super useful summary! Thanks Ryan and Sophie. Had no idea you were behind Dakota Lithium. That's great!
It's VERY good that ABYC has come up with a Lithium battery standard, as that will help everyone, boat owners, builders and insurers have safer and more uniform results.
Good to hear ISO is about to come out with a standard too.
Good vid Ryan,useful knowledge to implement, and congrats on the cert
Thanks for the video Ryan. Well done. I was wondering if you have ever looked at Clark's (Emely and Clark's sailing adventure) video on mixing led acid with lithium using his Bank Manager? If you have not I think you would find it interesting. He also has a 12v ac unit.
Clark says lithium isn't reliable enough to be used in "the kind of places" they go. Lol as if it's 2002 and he's anchored in Antarctica or something. That kind of backward thinking is pretty much the only reason other than poverty for keeping lead acid around, oh, I'm sure it helps if you can charge a couple hundred bux to sell your "solution" to the problem you are creating. Spoiler, his bank manager ONLY works if there is lead acid in the mix, of course he's gonna advocate for lead acid.
Well done!
Thank you for the info!
We have Dakota Lithium batteries on our sailboat, a Maverick, and are VERY happy with them!
You explain it really well...
My hubby says "awesome video". He has been researching this all winter!
That is awesome!
Ryan, you really have become good to be in front of the camera. professional! Good and interesting vid!
Great job. Keep up the good work. Thanks.
Great informative video guys. I shall recommend all my clients to watch it before taking the plunge.
Thanks Spencer
good on you Ryan, this was great information !
Thanks for all the great info! Lots to think about... It gives some good arguments for or against using the stock layouts and wiring configurations. Our insurance said lithium is fine just no car batteries. I'm sure all this will be changing and moving in the future.
good job Ryan!
This lives up to my expectations of Ryan's extreme nerdiness!!! GLORIOUS!!! Also, wait... what is that electrical burning smell... brb...
Thank you Ryan! As always your videos are very useful. Greetings Patricia
Congrats on the certification. On that note, it would be great to follow along as you work on your RYA Yachtmaster. I may well have missed a prior video on this topic and if so, I apologize. Keep these tech videos coming.
Another great video … thanks for explaining the CE etc for Europe a bit too as I may head there eventually and import the boat if I am forced to… and CE is a requirement from what I’ve started to read.
System is definitely better than making it all centered on the battery itself. That would eliminate so many great ways of doing this upgrade.
Just a heads up....
There was a severe near fatal incident here in qld Australia of a very well known brand lithium battery that failed and completely cut power from the battery to the motor and caused the boat to loose steering and crashing into another vessel,
Also another incident with a motorcyclist that went over the handlebars due to the sudden loss of power and engine stalling causing the rear wheel to lock up
Mercury immediately put out a service bulletin stating not to use lithium batteries on their engines and they will not warrant any damage done by these batteries.
Also rumours of a class action lawsuit,
While I love the new technology.
The fact that they are seeing these failures in not only marine applications but also land based vehicles that are not exposed to the elements of salt water etc is truly shocking and dangerous.
I’m not a hater of the technology, but with all the problems with the BMS causing failure not to mention leaving boaters stranded and unable to start their motor,
Do I believe the battery is safe? The chemical compound itself?
Yea I’d say it’s pretty safe, they don’t catch fire but they will let out enough smoke to kill you and the heat off a burning battery is insane!!
Is the bms safe! Absolutely not!!
There needs to be a back up capacitor in order to have a unit that will cut power at any given time due to a failure, more work need to be done before we start telling everyone they are 100% safe..
Thanks
Such great video. More Ryan tech talks🎉🎉🎉
More to come!
Happy Easter 🐣🐇
Send me your email address please.
Thanks!
NO, thank you!
An other great tech video, keep them coming.
bloody good video. has Will Prous done a vid on testing overheating temps vs chemistry?
Lekker man lekker 🇿🇦
Ryan, did you install T-Class fuse(s) on your battery/battery bank - if so did you do it at the bank level or individual battery? Have you ever needed to combine your house bank with your starter /AGM battery - if so any thoughts on that?
Thanks for this. I have dreams of converting to an electric engine, putting solar panels all over my boat, and doing long term cruising. Could you please share why you have not gone electric? Given how expensive batteries are, I would think you would have done this conversion since you work for a battery company and presumably get a deal. Thanks.
very well presented and interesting topic. Have you considered electric vs diesel propulsion ??? I am seeing more and more examples of drop in electric motors which also act as an alternator when in neutral, and they are getting really cost effective. Any comments?
As you’ve stated, the evolving marine lithium battery market standards are finally being formalized. Since the marketplace has leapfrogged ahead to accommodate huge demands on house battery banks, when are battery manufacturers going to offer more than 50Ah, 80Ah and 100Ah rated 12/24V batteries? Some installations will require as many as 8 and possibly 10 lithium batteries due to load demands. Even 200Ah batteries @12V require 4 or more units in serial/parallel configurations. Are there plans to go to higher Ah rated units to conserve numbers (and space) required?
A number already are. We offer a 280ah and soon a 560 in 12v. A number od other companies do The same.
Good video but what I don’t see is the standard from anyone regarding short circuit protection so that potential of fire risk is reduced. As with the electrical code there is a requirement that the protection equipment (overcurrent devices such as circuit breakers or fuses) can withstand the short circuit applied. The amount of heat produced in a short circuit is essentially 1 degree per amp of fault current. So, if your bank can produce a fault of 5000 amps, then the circuit protection equipment needs to be able to withstand that amount of amps. If not, a fault will most likely always cause a risk of fire. I am an electrical engineer and sail a Swan 48 hull 140.
This would be under a different section of ABYC but yes, they define this as the AIC fuse rating and the exact reason why thr best fuse to use for a battery Instalation is a class t
@@RyanSophieSailing thats good at the source. It would be good to have the battery mfgr provide the AIC at the source with multiple configurations and available Fault at the point of common coupling. Also, the let through of the class T should be provided so downstream overcurrent devices are properly selected such as circuit breakers. It just seems there is not enough info on the overcurrent protection required and wiring sizing. I follow Nfpa 70 which is the National electrical code for all electrical on my boat. It must be difficult for battery mfgrs to deal with electrical fires on boats especially since I would expect it to be installation/design issues and not product. Thanks for the response and have a good night.
Yessiree…Pretty “Nerd” Subject for Me😜 But I’m Happy there are Folks, like Ryan, who know what they’re talking about👍 Continue to Stay Safe and Enjoy😎
You reference a video that people should go watch before continuing - may I suggest leaving it in the comments or using a "card"?
ill check with the director on this one.
I would like information about the washer/dryer you installed. How is it holding up? Where can I get one ? I have been looking everywhere without success!! Thank you!!!
Hi, do you know if is it possible to get a Dakota battery in europe or in Italy ?
Ryan, I'm learning plenty from you on Lithium systems - thanks.
However, I'm puzzled about the voltage in the Lithium bank. I'm considering using Dakota lithium 24V units instead of 12V, primarily to keep the wiring cooler. When I need 12V for lighting or electronics, I'll use one of your DC/DC converters closer to the item(s) needing power. It should make the inverter's work easier too I think. Did you keep 12V because of existing systems and wiring?
While I like the idea of each battery managing its own cells and protecting against over voltage/current events, I'd like to get a look at what it's doing, especially if the battery has been stopped - is there any plan to provide bluetooth or other mechanisms to provide diagnostics?
Ryan - what are your thoughts on sodium ion batteries?
Several months ago, Kevin from SV Talisman, posted a video on his installation of Lithium iron phosphate batteries (LiFePO4 or LFP) on his Oyster 485 sailboat.
After watching his video, we exchanged comments, and I was very surprised to learn that almost all Lithium iron phosphate batteries (LiFePO4 or LFP) are manufactured in China.
In reading a recent article entitled “Lithium iron phosphate comes to America “Companies are planning the first large-scale factories in North America for the inexpensive battery raw material” from the Chemical & Engineering News, it appears that the manufacture of LFP might finally be coming to the US. Yes, Sophie’s Cookbook?
ABYC will require an explosive blow-out panel in the hull, so that it the event of a battery fire the complete battery bank may be ejected and dropped clear of the hull, regardless of type. Honest. (WEG)
👍
The alternative power source could simply be another LiFePo4 battery in the system. If you have multiple batteries (which is typical) you'd satisfy this requirement. In our case, we have a single large LFP bank (one BMS) so I added a 100ahr AGM in case of disconnect.
Ryan, what is the best way to add protection against lightning strikes? Thanks ofr your time. :¬) Webhead USA
Clark from Emily and Clark’s Adventures addresses this topic in one of his earlier videos ..
Can you please guide as to how you obtained the certificate? (Which particular course?)
you can go on the education tab of the ABYC website and find the certified marine electrician courses. they have them online every month or so.
Have you any plans of releasing Dakota batteries batteries in Europe ?
Do you take any measures against low current overcharge of your Li-ion batteries or do you rely on the BMS? Does the BMS really prevent that?
the BMS has a high voltage cutoff which would prevent this.
OK, gonna try to get this right. Clark from Emily and Clark's Adventures, have come up with a BBMS. Battery Bank management system, to charge both lithium and lead acid together and disconnect when necessary. Do you think his thinking is right?
I'll ask you the same thing I asked Clark. Why, in 2023 would anybody want lead acid? He has a gizmo to sell that only works if you have it, that's a pretty good reason. Everybody else is better off putting the cost of his gizmo into another 200 amps of lithium.
Glad Lipo’s made it mainstream, just hoping it does not get too regulated and we don’t loose the freedom to tinker. From an old guy that’s been messing with this since pre Jack Ricard (evtv) if you even know who he was. If you don’t check him out for deep knowledge!
OK I heard about the cookbook lol
This video should come with a warning to not watch while under the influence of drugs or alcohol. 🤣 It is obvious Ryan knows what he is talking about but after ten minutes my eyes crossed. (Sort of like when I talk to my better half about IT stuff) Still, glad to see someone out there actually doing real world testing on this technology and coming up with real world solutions.
ill talk to the director about that warning ;)
So, just put a 60AH cranking Dakota in my fishing boat. I keep getting a 13.8V-15V fluctuation, is my alternator going too high and getting cut off by the BMS? Battery shows full charge. Motor stays running.
What type of motor do you have, this can be an issue with some outboards but I think the support tea. Has a fix
Old videos are not popping up when you refer to them in this one.
What's the chance we'll see a crossover's chapter in one of your books schooling us in the proper way to make a a delicious lithium sauce?
hahahaha... the lithium sauce!
Does the standard speak to Lithium starting batteries? I'm interested in LiFePO4 cranking batteries for yanmar diesels to save a lot of weight at the aft end of a sailing catamaran. They would be directly in the engine compartment. Thanks.
No they dont, as we are at a very early time with these standards. That said the general gist of the standards is to follow the manufacturer's recommendations. So if you do this and follow any additional installation guidance from ABYC you should be okay. Though, as always... check with an electrician who knows your system
I left a comment yesterday but now it seems to have been deleted and I'm just wondering why? It wasn't a negative comment, the opposite in fact. Was it because it mentioned another channel?
Hi! Hmmm, that's weird... TH-cam filters out potentially offensive comments, but there is a "trash folder" into which we go find them. I went in there but didn't find anything from you. I only remove the really nasty comments. And usually, I don't even just remove them, I block the authors :p It has made for a much more peaceful experience as a creator over time :D
@@RyanSophieSailing Blocking the a-holes seems like a perfectly fair thing. I promise my comment wasn't like that at all. Ok, well I will try again I suppose. Maybe I only imagined I pressed the comment button. 🙂 Or maybe it's the gnomes.
UK Dakota distribution on the cards? Please….
Working on it.....
Be my eyes 👀
The cookbook still not finished? What?😂
G'day, Nov? 4+ mths ago, like early days of PC, that's old for this tech discussion.
After ~3 years watching various YT sailing vids, I only heard about Dakota yesterday researching elec engines. Yet I see plenty with Battle Born (neither good to me with freight costs to Aus). So why not also do similar "marketing", help out fellow YT sailors, RV'ers, etc out, do the right thing by the environment, which apparently that's what its all about, vs Torqeedo, who's been involved in the game for 15+ years, set the standard of price gouging huge mark-ups for some moulded plastic & a battery, vs componentry & labour of cheaper 2 or 4 stroke. Profits over environment. End-Rant.
Sophie, I would be way easier to "pay attention" if you were talking, looks, voice & accent is something Ryan cannot do. Yet Ryan knows details that only a Ryan would know, so well done Ryan.
WHAT
So 14 minutes to say the regulations are not all that useful.
That iron phosphate is the way to go maybe and you need a good BMS.
👍🦘
You have a serious problem with jumping zoom! Impossible to watch the whole video 😢
So here is my question. Why do Teslas burst into flames sometimes, and why can I be sure that won’t happen to my boat in the middle of the ocean? Serious question, not trying to be an ass.
Oh you should totally watch this video, it will answer that question!
WATCH THIS before installing lithium batteries on your sailboat ⚡ [RYAN'S TECH CORNER]
th-cam.com/video/vraRhNpEWcE/w-d-xo.html