Considering how public Rudy's videos on fake cards are and how much knowledge he shares on every little details about them, this is bound to happen. Anyone who wants to make something better in general can benefit from the advice of an expert. In the particular case of MTG fakes, there is a reason why they got better over time.
If I were to buy expensive card I'd do the same. 1st thing - nobody would fake these, 2nd thing - the are cheaper and all I want is to play with the fucking card, not gaze upon it whole day
I know you're joking, but if you watch the video... That orange juice and feces on that scratched up Ancestral Recall... I mean, beating up a card is a strategy to make it look more real, I guess, but who knows.
@@johannpohland2826 Yea, knowing Rudy he'd just be like, *rip*, *Rip*,,, *Rip*. Alright that was the real one, I'll send you a replacement. That would be the most time-efficient way to find the real one.
As bad as these are to the touch sitting across the table from them in a sleeve I'd have no idea these were fakes. That's what these were designed for. Not to be sold and inspected as real but to be convincing enough from across the table.
I agree with you 100%. Unless someone point it out in an event, I doubt judges will deck check everybody for authenticity. Nonetheless, the fakes are very good for casual/kitchen table play/deck testing, and they save money in a big way.
The texture/feel stuff doesn't help at all either. When buying a $50+ card I'm not gonna bend it before buying! I'd probably only take it out of the sleeve long enough to put it in a different one.
well then he could NOT go on with his ridiculous "omg this is such a bad proxy thats terrible bla BLA BLA" the only awful thing here is the guy talking shit
thanks for asking for our opinion on your camera angles and glare. I try to tell you to adjust it but you don't respond and the people around me are confused cause I'm talking to a TH-cam video.
All pre-KOT cards are made using traditional printing tech, ink, rollers, volatile ink thinners. They smell a little like diesel. New printing cards use Toner and don't have any distinguishable scent "like faint charcoal" is how some people with good noses describe it. Totally legit way to tell if older cards are faked.
Buying "real" looking proxies is a bad idea: it keeps that market alive and can fool players unknowingly. I prefer full art proxies that everyone knows are fake. Make it obvious when you play and many are beautiful. This inspires artists to keep re-imagining full art cards and make the "real" proxies end.
I don't like how stupidly expensive the game became (because of "investors") but fake card should look like fake cards. Otherwise, it's counterfeit. People like throwing money to chineses.
I love the black and white proxies I print at home to fill the gaps in my decks, but when I sit down at a table, there is never a question that my proxies are fake. Even through a sleeve.
I only have a couple proxies and own the real card for each one. I just dont wanna take a 50 or more card in and out of sleeves over and over because I use some of the same ones in different decks.
I collect proxies as well, I've noticed that often when you hand someone a good proxy card and say it's fake, they are able to immediately name 5-6 totally obvious reasons the card is a fake. Hand them 4 real cards and 1 proxy, very few are able to find the proxy. Then hand them a real card and say it's fake, they are back to 5-6 totally obvious reasons the card looks terrible :)
Rudy, I'm curious if you could pick out the real card from a stack of ten fakes. Some of the counterfeits are pretty easy to tell in the video. Others are harder without feeling them. Just think that could be a fun challenge. Anyone want to put that together and sent it to Rudy? Thanks for the great content, keep it up!
Which is kind of sad I guess. I mean, the prices of certain cards is indeed hindering players of getting into formats. I mean, those gold bordered cards were acceptable to say the least! Wizards own proxies. Those were so good for kitchen table Magic man. I miss them. I agree on the prices of cards with Andrew, it's just outrageous how much certain cards cost.
Tyler Green it would be, it’d also be some hundreds of thousands of a collection considering all the power nine cards, other vintage, planeswalkers, etc.
Part of the problem talking about "color looks all washed out" is that there is HUGE variance when it comes to WotC actual product and it's color from one print run to another (or maybe even the same print run if the machines are running low on ink or something). I have quite a few cards that are drastically different colors: 2 of my ichorclaw myr are from the infect event deck, 2 were pulled from drafting, the ones from the event deck have a blue hue to them, the ones pulled from packs have an orange hue. My playset of priest of titania: one is super dark green, two or normal green card color from urza block, the 4th is a lime green color. I drafted all of those cards when I was in high school. Nobody was making high end proxies back then and putting them in authentic boosters to sell to stores. My playset of goblin guides look fake next to the rest of my goblin deck (especially my rabblemasters) because the guides have super dark red borders and super dark blue shades in the art. They came straight from two copies of the into the breach event deck I traded for years ago when it was current in standard. The two contested war zones I own (1 from each of the 2 copies of into the breach event deck) look totally different. One has the blue hue thing happening and the other has the orange hue just like the irchorclaw myr. Bottom line: if you've played enough MTG and seen enough cards, you are aware that print quality at WotC isn't that amazing. They do have quality control standards, sure, but it's not that stringent ... we're talking pieces of mass produced cardboard art, not a billion dollar NASA satellite or something. Still the best way to detect fakes is to touch the card ... the counterfeiters haven't gotten that MTG feel perfected yet. Often the backs of the cards aren't as well printed as the real thing too even though the fronts of some have a rosette pattern that to the naked eye might seem right ... still under a loupe they aren't right either, so if you have a loupe and you have fingers, use both!
Yeah I thought the same thing on a few of Rudy's "look at the color difference" comments on a few of his fakes videos. "i have genuine cards that have that much color difference" Seems the newer generation fakes are made from buying MTG cards like basic lands, and acetoning the face and re-printing them. SInce they're authentic cardstock they pass all the cardstock tests and loupe-looking is the only way to verify. There's a reason WOTC started putting foil images on all rares.
hey rudy... you left the guys address in the video and showing hundreds of people where the guy lives.. you should try blacking it out next time or edit it out. love your vids
As he said he didn't spend much money since he can claim he "unknowingly" bought counterfeits from these people and get refunded through paypal. Kinda brilliant.
I noticed that too. I was kinda thinking of doing the same thing actually. And before anyone says it's immoral, is it any more moral for them to purposely sell the fakes to me? If they get screwed while trying to scam someone, it seems right to me.
Also, I think it would be better to reverse scam the guys who do this because if they keep getting burned by selling these, they won't be so quick to sell them again.
Fair enough. I still think it might be a good idea to buy stuff like this and report it. Getting as many of these shops off of Ebay would be good, I think.
because the ones i could print out would look like shit? These look pretty much like the real thing for casual play and probably cost about the same as what id spend on ink and card.
yeah, bullshit. or to casually pass them off as just part of your collection. woven shamelessly into your edh and cubs, excusing yourself because those are just "casual," meanwhile people who actually love this game search, trade, and spend to put real cards in their commander decks.
billyum braskey lmao yeah u got me I go around with folders full of proxies and brag about how glorious and valuable my collection is and se'll a few off here and there to people that don't know better..... but seriously though, I just want to play modern without having to spend all my money on the game! I'm not paying the asking price from 4 tarmogoyfs and neither should anyone else. I have other interests that cost money too that I would not be able to enjoy them if I spend everything on these cards that have only spiraled out of control in price because of wizards dumb reprint policys. I get bored of playing the same deck over and over so even if I did fork out a shit ton for one deck I'd have to do it again pretty soon to build another and that's not a smart use of my money. I hope that these Chinese reprints make wizards realise people will go to other sources like myself and many others are if they continue to make the game unaffordable to so many.
Or pay $500 for these and play FNM, nobody will ever notice it. Would love to know how many fakes are already running around the stores and nobody notices.
These are great for building commander decks. I can sell 2 real modern staples and use the funds to build a 100 card kitchen table deck. I sold my real gaea's cradle because my proxies were better.. the table cannot tell the difference and my friends happily play them too. Reserved list made my ABU duals cost 1$/each.
Exactly what I was talking about above... by keeping card prices higher than reasonable, they only encourage people to buy proxies rather than legit product.
Exact issue I was talking about above... there are people who would love to play the game. But "playing the game" at a high level at full legitimacy requires several $100+ purchases.
WOTC need to seriously take notice of this. Are they trying to keep the re-sellers happy or their player base? Release this stuff at a reasonable price and people will ignore the fakes and buy legit. One of the rules of Economics is that Price will always equal demand. Their booster pack business model does not address this in any way, the fakes absolutely do cater to this. They need to drastically change their business model. Why not set a price for each card and make each card available for single purchase. Sure still do boosters for draft but I haven't bought a booster in 20 years, I've been buying singles. It doesn't make sense that they are still only selling packs.
If I were in charge of WOTC this would be implemented DAY ONE: EVERY common can be purchased directly from us for $0.50 EVERY uncommon for $1.00 and EVERY Rare $5.00. I think we'd run into legal trouble for usury though because the cards only cost us 1/3 of a cent a piece to make, so we may be maxed out at charging like $1.33 per card. (400% markup).
i honestly don't think all of this cards is intend to be a fake to scam with deals, i think is more about making affordable this game. I did toons of copy of pricy cards back in time and glued them onto lands, but they was just a way to try to have fun with some super expansive deck.
I used to do this as well. When I was in high school, me and my friends had our little legit decks that were by standards, still bad, but what can you do working a fast food job while in high school only a few days a week. So we would buy a box of used lands from local shops when they would rotate them out for their release nights and so on and then print and glue a printout of cards we simply could not find or afford to have fun with some of these pro level decks. I still encourage people to do that even to this day. As long as it stops at a kitchen table kind of scene, I see no harm in it. But when you want to go to a tournament scene, the cards need to be legit.
To be fair, these don't cost as much as you think. I've seen it as low as like 180 for $20. They're only really meant to pass for casual and locals, and for that the ones out there these days do the job. I've used them for cube/EDH stuff and people are aware they are proxies.
If you play with proxies and don't care about quality, cards are as cheap as printer ink. Just print off the cards and sleeve them with/glue them to commons and basics.
Rudy, these kind of proxies are the way to go when you want to build a set of legacy decks and a power 9 cube for like $300 total versus like about $2k per legacy deck and $20k+ for a good power cube. Of course they are fake, but they look good enough for tons of games at home. Mike waaaaay overpaid on these things.
Yeah, and who cares what you use for your cube. Casual Proxy legacy and Vintage are fun too and these are way better than just printing pieces of paper.
"BTW - Paypal is really good about covering their customers when they 'unknowingly' buy fakes." This was in the letter if you were actually paying attention. He payed next to nothing for this collection by reporting everything he bought as fake.
I'm paying for someone to print them out onto card shaped cardstock in higher quality than my home printer can do. They're still cards, just not official ones, hence the significantly lower price.
I work in a print shop. The cards with the foil could be the result of 1 of 2 things: I'm guessing since they're counterfeit, whoever makes them isn't interested in doing them RIGHT so they rushed the foil process, which takes time to set up and get to the right temperature. AND/OR they used a cheap poly foil die to press the foil, which wears out quickly and eventually loses its sharp edges.
Looks like he has v.1.0-2.0 of 's print runs. Maybe some of them are white/blue core ones. The new German paper, black core only, 4.0s are way better made. A friend has sets of Legacy/Vintage v.3.0/4.0 and I've sat with a few real B/U cards (Jump and Island) and its very hard to tell, even when looking for it. For people that wanna watch out for traders, take care of Revised duals, because those are super well made. The 3.0s are okay but not as bad as the ones Rudy is holding there in the end. Guessing the waxy "clear coat" but good ones, are v.3.0s. Did not see any there that looked like v.4.0s.
i really wanted to start playing Paper magic and wanted to get an Azorius Control deck for modern. The mana base was 2k dollars. I looked at the mana base for 10 seconds without saying anything. Hit the X button and never wanted to get magic cards ever again.
@Rudy I'm pretty sure you're my father. I've talked to mom who said he was some stranger and the only thing she remembered about him was he kept saying "I'm creepy", couldn't get it beyond 'floppy' and oddly enough kept calling it his "taco".
As a casual no it's not because we don't know any better. It's because we don't want to spend thousands on fucking cardboard. These at best 4.00 a card.
Shit like this scary me a lot, it may look crap today, but I think someday, the printing technology will be so high that anyone will be able to do counterfeit cards and all my collection will be wortless.
I doubt he has a serious investment in reserve list. Rudy is in the buying and selling business his stock is much more liquid than that. I'm sure he has his own personal collections worth a lot and probs a bunch worth of reserve list but I doubt he's leaning on it.
I'm probably the thousandth person to say this but it would've been nice to see a few real cards to compare to. Especially the middle-aged sets like Urza block. I'm pretty sure the average player has no idea what a lot of those printings looked like. To them the OG cards that looked like they were printed by WotC yesterday didn't even ring an alarm.That Chains might as well have been Commander 2017 lol.
these counterfeit people (the ones who alert the buyer they are buying counterfeits) are saving people money. These are prices of cardboard, and paying 1000 dollars or more for a deck of said cardboard is utter bullshit. Just because I don't have stupid amounts of extra money to spend shouldn't put me at a disadvantage.
This is literelly the first video i'm dissapointed of. You've been handed a bag of gold with such a big sample set of counterfeits, and you blowed the opportunity. You should have spent more time in preparations for this one. Take these cards, sort them by edition, group by different flaws and do side-by-side comparison with real stuff, pointing out what to look after. Ones that had orange back were clear, but other were much less, and your constant "feels terrible" just doesn't tell us anything! Please prepare in advance - get some on-camera lens to show us real vs fake print patterns, calipers to measure thinkness, explain how much wax should be there (just don't show your balls for a reference), and how to do all tests properly. I'm sure for any edition you have a common or two you could sacrifice for tests and explain print nuances for these sets to look after. I know you did a bit of that in one of your previous videos, but i think this topic is deep, and content would be unique, and it doesn't have to be all in one video. Thanks
Yea this is a fan mail video, he has plenty of other videos where he properly explains counterfeits and shows every little detail and differences between real and fake.
The reason he doesnt want to give specifics is so the counterfeiters watching this video won't have enough information to make perfect replicas and can still be recognized as counterfeit
I couldnt tell any were fake except for orange backs and the older set black bordered cards... you just cant fake shit printing back in the day an 30 year old paper!
Alex ya man, I'm scared to buy anything on ebay anymore. I wonder if vendors process counterfeits, because if so then boxes from Wizards wrapping seems to be the only way to get cards, which would suck royally.
Don't worry, most counterfeits out there are crap and can be spotted from miles away... And even if they're good, if you saw real ones before, you'll be able to tell the difference.
The problem is that sometimes printing can be way off, especially among different languages and print runs of the same set. I have many worthless and really different-looking commons from the earlier sets that nobody in their right mind would counterfeit. This looks like really bad quality control from WOTC.
Hey Wizards if you are reading this, how about you reprint these cards at a fair price (modern masters is not fairly priced) so we dont have to go to alternate sellers?
They also don't have to worry about them showing up a tournaments since no one wants to risk the inevitable deck check and perma-ban. As far a Wizards is concerned it's still cheating.
I think for every one DCI player there's about 100 who play who will never be within a 20 mile radius of a magic tournament. And those players have ZERO incentive to have authentic cards.
as a person who doesn't own a single magic card who just watches videos on youtube this kind of information is good if I ever decide to get into the game..
Same. I was thinking about getting a couple old fake decks to try some game play but it's still $50 for a fake set. I'm not paying that for a deck of cards.
I've got a counterfeit Gaia's Cradle that my local shop wanted to buy off me until I told them it wasn't a real card. The counterfeit is from South America. They look and feel pretty damn convincing.
Also, about hte hoolo foil stamp, WotC has a CUSTOM made holographic pattern, if you look closely they are the planeswalker simbol and the mana simbols shifting depneding on the angle, also the pattern is large enough that it doesnt fit on a single stamp, so you only see a small fraction of the pattern in a single card (aka; a random small part of the foil used) That stamp has a normal circular pattern that looks nothing close to a real one. I would actually be surprised if someone pulls a holographic pattern like the one WotC uses, since they are SUPER expensive to make and get.
Rudy can you maybe make another video where you put some of the best fakes right next to real cards? Because some of them are indistinguishable to me... can you compare them?
Except it would show just how good some of the proxies are now. Notice how he always goes back to the "feel" of the card... that waxy finish? Proxies ship with extra wax so that the feel can be tailored by the buyer (aka- aged properly). A light vinegar wash can reduce the wax down to the bare card, if desired. The Rosettes are getting better and better with each printing... the light test depends entirely on the paper, and can be faked... coloring would be a great indicator, save for the fact that WotC's own coloring varies drastically in a set... He'll never show good proxies in the same frame as original cards because it would destroy buyer confidence in the very product he sells.
there are better proxies than the best proxies a proxy collector holds in his binder? Rudy said those looked way off. I'd like to see a comparison so I feel safe when ordering cards, knowing I can spot fakes. People already know proxies exist, making people aware of how to spot them can only make your business stronger I feel.
just because I have a man crush on 80s mustache Rudy doesn't mean I want him to take me to the original pound-town. I mean, if wanting Shady Rudy to slap a sticker on my balls after selling me some overpriced bulk rares makes me gay... then I'm not prepared with an argument at this time.
To a certain extent the glare on cards is unavoidable. But if you have the ability to reduce the ISO on whatever camera you use that helps cut down. I shoot IRL drafting videos at our FLGS and I shoot at ISO1600. At 800 it's too dark and at 3200 the cards shine like the beacons of Gondor. But 1600 is usually perfect.
The thin paper/easier to bend cards can be noticed pretty easily even while just shuffling the deck or picking up the card. The colours aren't that easy to spot through double sleeves though. Might be different with other proxies, I have the cheap ones in the white box on the very left of the table. They were like 12$ for 55 proxies, including power, duals, fetches.
I'm pretty sure many chinese fakes started out as basic lands, that got the paint removed with acetone or something, then they photo printed on the same card stock, so they pass all the card-stock tests. You need a jewler's loupe to determine that they are fakes.
Rudy, I agree on them feeling off, both physically and generally. I got my first counterfeit recently in a City of Traitors, spotted it within seconds even though it was a better fake than those shown, Walker' s sig looked so uncrisp and so did the set symbol, color of the border and feel were off too. I agree that those fooled will be the unknowing so I commend you for doing more videos on the topic
I'd love for fakes to get much better so that Wizards gets off their asses and does away with the reserved list so that it's possible to do what the game was created for, play it. With good fakes, Wizards won't have much of a choice if they don't want their tournaments to end up being 90% fakes. No hate on scumbag Rudy for investing and buying out. Don't hate the player, hate the game.
Schlafrok : Hey Mike, what did you do today? Mike: Oh nothing I sent a schmuck thousand real magic cards and watch him fret over them for 24 minutes. Hbu?
Honestly this makes me grateful that I've been a diligent collector over the years. I know all of my cards are real because they came out of sealed product when they were released. I have also bought tons of bulk cards over the years, but I never mix the two. And actually that was a fat return, back when you could buy you know, five thousand "random" cards for fifty bucks on eBay. One of those boxes I was just looking through the other day, since I'm trying to inventory my bulk collection, and there were six or seven pack fresh NM Revised Wheel of Fortunes -- or maybe Wheels of Fortune? -- sitting right up front just for starters. The prices for these cards are crazy these days.
Why is the proxy market a bad thing? If they are as easy to spot as Rudy suggests they are (only they aren't), then the genuine MtG Market has nothing to worry about... Moral of the story, don't treat your card game as an actual long-term investment.
Imagine how much more exciting the tournament scene could be if people had the card provided to them for deckbuildign for tournament. Wizard seem to think people won't spend money if that happen while this make no sense.
The only time i'd use proxies is for my commander decks, and even then it'd be obvious fakes, like fanmade card frames, old card frame on new cards, new frames on cards that haven't been reprinted in the new frame, sixth edition test frame, futureshifted frames for non-futureshifted cards, full art on cards that don't have full art prints, stuff like that.
I have bought something like that white box of proxies just to see how good they were and it was only about 29.99 which is still cost, but to me it was worth to see what the "best" proxies look like since I have been playing for 20 years and I am getting to the point were I am starting to buy cards that are higher end one for nostalgia and two just to have.
Mike is secretly a counterfeiter, who is checking his work against Rudy.
the master plan
😂 genius
my thoughts exactly
Considering how public Rudy's videos on fake cards are and how much knowledge he shares on every little details about them, this is bound to happen. Anyone who wants to make something better in general can benefit from the advice of an expert. In the particular case of MTG fakes, there is a reason why they got better over time.
There have been videos where he has seen good counterfits and refused to disclose how he knew
this is why i only buy cards that have been chewed on or put through the washing machine, ain't nobody trying to fake 3/5ths of a mana drain
If I were to buy expensive card I'd do the same. 1st thing - nobody would fake these, 2nd thing - the are cheaper and all I want is to play with the fucking card, not gaze upon it whole day
You're*
I laughed way too hard at the 3/5 of a mana drain part
I know you're joking, but if you watch the video... That orange juice and feces on that scratched up Ancestral Recall...
I mean, beating up a card is a strategy to make it look more real, I guess, but who knows.
This comment made me laugh more than it probably should have.
"My balls aren't even waxed that much."
-Creepy Rudy, 2017
Awww, man. You beat me to the punch :(
Best info about the whole video, proxy balls
Please, someone needs to send Rudy real and expensive cards and tell him that they are supposed to be fake.
Someone should send him 100 cards, all proxies, save one. See how long it takes for him to find the real card.
And then he rips them to look for the blue core lol
@@johannpohland2826 Yea, knowing Rudy he'd just be like, *rip*, *Rip*,,, *Rip*. Alright that was the real one, I'll send you a replacement. That would be the most time-efficient way to find the real one.
lol, you're right. he's very bias. He doesn't seem to know the backs are probably real.
As bad as these are to the touch sitting across the table from them in a sleeve I'd have no idea these were fakes. That's what these were designed for. Not to be sold and inspected as real but to be convincing enough from across the table.
I agree with you 100%. Unless someone point it out in an event, I doubt judges will deck check everybody for authenticity. Nonetheless, the fakes are very good for casual/kitchen table play/deck testing, and they save money in a big way.
Exactly, good enough to cheat at any table, especially tournaments.
DarkZombie You could build a tier 1 deck with fakes for so damn cheap.
The texture/feel stuff doesn't help at all either. When buying a $50+ card I'm not gonna bend it before buying! I'd probably only take it out of the sleeve long enough to put it in a different one.
What about competitive play? How many fakes can pass casual (sleeved) inspection in the hands of a judge during a decklist check?
You should do side-by-side comparisons with real cards
Ethan Johnson that would be the most expensive video ever (i know we wouldn't need to buy much of them, bur just the value they have)
i was esp looking forward to this with the new magic holo stamp cards.
ya not expensive if he already has a black lotus, which he does but I get what you mean
was waiting for the real cards too - at least for color/pixelation comparison. And some bending and scratch test and so forth...
well then he could NOT go on with his ridiculous "omg this is such a bad proxy thats terrible bla BLA BLA" the only awful thing here is the guy talking shit
thanks for asking for our opinion on your camera angles and glare. I try to tell you to adjust it but you don't respond and the people around me are confused cause I'm talking to a TH-cam video.
*looks at card*
Me: ok
*feels card*
Me: sure
*flicks card*
Me: ok...
*listens to card*
Me: ummm...
*smells card*
Me: wtf?
All pre-KOT cards are made using traditional printing tech, ink, rollers, volatile ink thinners. They smell a little like diesel. New printing cards use Toner and don't have any distinguishable scent "like faint charcoal" is how some people with good noses describe it. Totally legit way to tell if older cards are faked.
@@dangerousbeing150 would the smell stay that long?
@@thieney uh it does tho.
@@thieney I have Alpha cards that still smell. I love that smell.
@@endersblade Smells like ... victory.
Someone should send Rudy a box of reserved list cards, some being fake and some being real.
Buying "real" looking proxies is a bad idea: it keeps that market alive and can fool players unknowingly. I prefer full art proxies that everyone knows are fake. Make it obvious when you play and many are beautiful. This inspires artists to keep re-imagining full art cards and make the "real" proxies end.
I don't like how stupidly expensive the game became (because of "investors") but fake card should look like fake cards. Otherwise, it's counterfeit. People like throwing money to chineses.
No, it doesn't It's a fantastic way to keep playing the game.
I love the black and white proxies I print at home to fill the gaps in my decks, but when I sit down at a table, there is never a question that my proxies are fake. Even through a sleeve.
I only have a couple proxies and own the real card for each one. I just dont wanna take a 50 or more card in and out of sleeves over and over because I use some of the same ones in different decks.
This is why I have been saying for years that ultimately the fake market is going to be what abolishes the reserve list, that, and that alone.
Then by damned I'd better support it.
Fast forward 5 years later, there are fakes with better card stock than official MTG cards.
I collect proxies as well, I've noticed that often when you hand someone a good proxy card and say it's fake, they are able to immediately name 5-6 totally obvious reasons the card is a fake. Hand them 4 real cards and 1 proxy, very few are able to find the proxy. Then hand them a real card and say it's fake, they are back to 5-6 totally obvious reasons the card looks terrible :)
Rudy, I'm curious if you could pick out the real card from a stack of ten fakes. Some of the counterfeits are pretty easy to tell in the video. Others are harder without feeling them. Just think that could be a fun challenge. Anyone want to put that together and sent it to Rudy?
Thanks for the great content, keep it up!
I would very much enjoy owning cheap counterfeit cards for personal use. even if the back of the card said FAKE on them.
Matt knause alibaba.com search proxy, villa zheng does a decent job for about a buck each.
Wizards used to make tournament decks full proxied top decks we need those backs get rid of this entire market
fin101m Preach! Give us our gold borderd cards!
heh I think you'll just see magic become hearthstone before that happens
Which is kind of sad I guess. I mean, the prices of certain cards is indeed hindering players of getting into formats. I mean, those gold bordered cards were acceptable to say the least! Wizards own proxies. Those were so good for kitchen table Magic man. I miss them. I agree on the prices of cards with Andrew, it's just outrageous how much certain cards cost.
That would be so funny if these were actually all real and it was a test
Tyler Green it would be, it’d also be some hundreds of thousands of a collection considering all the power nine cards, other vintage, planeswalkers, etc.
Part of the problem talking about "color looks all washed out" is that there is HUGE variance when it comes to WotC actual product and it's color from one print run to another (or maybe even the same print run if the machines are running low on ink or something). I have quite a few cards that are drastically different colors: 2 of my ichorclaw myr are from the infect event deck, 2 were pulled from drafting, the ones from the event deck have a blue hue to them, the ones pulled from packs have an orange hue. My playset of priest of titania: one is super dark green, two or normal green card color from urza block, the 4th is a lime green color. I drafted all of those cards when I was in high school. Nobody was making high end proxies back then and putting them in authentic boosters to sell to stores. My playset of goblin guides look fake next to the rest of my goblin deck (especially my rabblemasters) because the guides have super dark red borders and super dark blue shades in the art. They came straight from two copies of the into the breach event deck I traded for years ago when it was current in standard. The two contested war zones I own (1 from each of the 2 copies of into the breach event deck) look totally different. One has the blue hue thing happening and the other has the orange hue just like the irchorclaw myr. Bottom line: if you've played enough MTG and seen enough cards, you are aware that print quality at WotC isn't that amazing. They do have quality control standards, sure, but it's not that stringent ... we're talking pieces of mass produced cardboard art, not a billion dollar NASA satellite or something.
Still the best way to detect fakes is to touch the card ... the counterfeiters haven't gotten that MTG feel perfected yet. Often the backs of the cards aren't as well printed as the real thing too even though the fronts of some have a rosette pattern that to the naked eye might seem right ... still under a loupe they aren't right either, so if you have a loupe and you have fingers, use both!
Yeah I thought the same thing on a few of Rudy's "look at the color difference" comments on a few of his fakes videos. "i have genuine cards that have that much color difference"
Seems the newer generation fakes are made from buying MTG cards like basic lands, and acetoning the face and re-printing them. SInce they're authentic cardstock they pass all the cardstock tests and loupe-looking is the only way to verify. There's a reason WOTC started putting foil images on all rares.
you made me get my collection out. my girlfriend is looking at me funny. she thought i only hold her that way
joseph dybas lel
hey rudy... you left the guys address in the video and showing hundreds of people where the guy lives.. you should try blacking it out next time or edit it out. love your vids
haha. you said hundreds.
maybe he meant 100s of Ks, lol
As a prank, someone should send the guy some expensive cards.
You can play that prank on me, send me some expensive cards.
Andersen Tax LLC? Not exactly a private address, is it.
As he said he didn't spend much money since he can claim he "unknowingly" bought counterfeits from these people and get refunded through paypal. Kinda brilliant.
I noticed that too. I was kinda thinking of doing the same thing actually. And before anyone says it's immoral, is it any more moral for them to purposely sell the fakes to me? If they get screwed while trying to scam someone, it seems right to me.
Also, I think it would be better to reverse scam the guys who do this because if they keep getting burned by selling these, they won't be so quick to sell them again.
If the sellers are still on ebay by now they've figured out how to get around it, I reckon
Fair enough. I still think it might be a good idea to buy stuff like this and report it. Getting as many of these shops off of Ebay would be good, I think.
Yea, they hate it when people buy their products, it just discourages them so hard......cmon. There's a market. It's fucking china. They'll get em in.
The scent of the floppy taco was off.
Id rather spend $500 on these than $50k+ on the real thing.
then just make proxies and play with those? why else would you want counterfeits??
because the ones i could print out would look like shit? These look pretty much like the real thing for casual play and probably cost about the same as what id spend on ink and card.
yeah, bullshit. or to casually pass them off as just part of your collection. woven shamelessly into your edh and cubs, excusing yourself because those are just "casual," meanwhile people who actually love this game search, trade, and spend to put real cards in their commander decks.
billyum braskey lmao yeah u got me I go around with folders full of proxies and brag about how glorious and valuable my collection is and se'll a few off here and there to people that don't know better..... but seriously though, I just want to play modern without having to spend all my money on the game! I'm not paying the asking price from 4 tarmogoyfs and neither should anyone else. I have other interests that cost money too that I would not be able to enjoy them if I spend everything on these cards that have only spiraled out of control in price because of wizards dumb reprint policys. I get bored of playing the same deck over and over so even if I did fork out a shit ton for one deck I'd have to do it again pretty soon to build another and that's not a smart use of my money. I hope that these Chinese reprints make wizards realise people will go to other sources like myself and many others are if they continue to make the game unaffordable to so many.
Or pay $500 for these and play FNM, nobody will ever notice it.
Would love to know how many fakes are already running around the stores and nobody notices.
if I wanted an orange magic card I'd go to the produce section of my grocery store, lol
killafrog124 your LGS?
These are great for building commander decks. I can sell 2 real modern staples and use the funds to build a 100 card kitchen table deck. I sold my real gaea's cradle because my proxies were better.. the table cannot tell the difference and my friends happily play them too. Reserved list made my ABU duals cost 1$/each.
My group has been looking for some like in these videos, but all of them are on weird sites, any idea for good ones?
Exactly what I was talking about above... by keeping card prices higher than reasonable, they only encourage people to buy proxies rather than legit product.
hasn't even been a full minute since the video launched and I finished
lol
I've looked a lot into making my own playable proxies for kitchen-table because cards are way too expensive.
Use basic lands, acetone the paint off and put them in your photo printer = Good enough.
Exact issue I was talking about above... there are people who would love to play the game. But "playing the game" at a high level at full legitimacy requires several $100+ purchases.
@@professororange7766 My simple hack for this is to not be good enough to play at a level where I need good cards
WOTC need to seriously take notice of this. Are they trying to keep the re-sellers happy or their player base? Release this stuff at a reasonable price and people will ignore the fakes and buy legit. One of the rules of Economics is that Price will always equal demand. Their booster pack business model does not address this in any way, the fakes absolutely do cater to this. They need to drastically change their business model. Why not set a price for each card and make each card available for single purchase. Sure still do boosters for draft but I haven't bought a booster in 20 years, I've been buying singles. It doesn't make sense that they are still only selling packs.
This, until tarmogyf and co is $20 ill be buying these.
If I were in charge of WOTC this would be implemented DAY ONE: EVERY common can be purchased directly from us for $0.50 EVERY uncommon for $1.00 and EVERY Rare $5.00. I think we'd run into legal trouble for usury though because the cards only cost us 1/3 of a cent a piece to make, so we may be maxed out at charging like $1.33 per card. (400% markup).
$500 for $100,000 worth of cards seems worth to me :p
If you're not trying to play competitively, it's fun to play powerful cards with friends!
Yeah I would rather play with a counterfeit deck tbh. I'm not ever gonna go pro,
Not even actually worth $100,000...comics and cards never go for the book price.
Zacc Emanuel agreed
So you either forcing your friends to spend $100.000, or buy fake cards, too, or not being able to play on your powerlevel.
Fair enough
i honestly don't think all of this cards is intend to be a fake to scam with deals, i think is more about making affordable this game. I did toons of copy of pricy cards back in time and glued them onto lands, but they was just a way to try to have fun with some super expansive deck.
I used to do this as well. When I was in high school, me and my friends had our little legit decks that were by standards, still bad, but what can you do working a fast food job while in high school only a few days a week. So we would buy a box of used lands from local shops when they would rotate them out for their release nights and so on and then print and glue a printout of cards we simply could not find or afford to have fun with some of these pro level decks. I still encourage people to do that even to this day. As long as it stops at a kitchen table kind of scene, I see no harm in it. But when you want to go to a tournament scene, the cards need to be legit.
Mike should've said "One of these are real" in the letter.
so glossy you can put on the bed and u slip and slide and miss me. lmao you so nuts rudy! luv it.
To be fair, these don't cost as much as you think. I've seen it as low as like 180 for $20. They're only really meant to pass for casual and locals, and for that the ones out there these days do the job. I've used them for cube/EDH stuff and people are aware they are proxies.
If you play with proxies and don't care about quality, cards are as cheap as printer ink. Just print off the cards and sleeve them with/glue them to commons and basics.
I was waiting for a counterfeit to be flipped over and just have a Yu-Gi-Oh back on it. And then the one that was just a legit card.
Next time eat one of the cards and tell us if the digestion is off lol love the vids
I lolled.
Rudy, these kind of proxies are the way to go when you want to build a set of legacy decks and a power 9 cube for like $300 total versus like about $2k per legacy deck and $20k+ for a good power cube. Of course they are fake, but they look good enough for tons of games at home. Mike waaaaay overpaid on these things.
Yeah, and who cares what you use for your cube.
Casual Proxy legacy and Vintage are fun too and these are way better than just printing pieces of paper.
"BTW - Paypal is really good about covering their customers when they 'unknowingly' buy fakes."
This was in the letter if you were actually paying attention. He payed next to nothing for this collection by reporting everything he bought as fake.
I don't see why you'd want to pay 300 for worthless cards when you can just print your own if it's just for kitchen table. Just dumb if you ask me.
I'm paying for someone to print them out onto card shaped cardstock in higher quality than my home printer can do. They're still cards, just not official ones, hence the significantly lower price.
Except he had his purchases refunded via paypal and removed fakes from circulation at a loss for the seller and built his for fun cubes. Everyone wins
I work in a print shop. The cards with the foil could be the result of 1 of 2 things: I'm guessing since they're counterfeit, whoever makes them isn't interested in doing them RIGHT so they rushed the foil process, which takes time to set up and get to the right temperature. AND/OR they used a cheap poly foil die to press the foil, which wears out quickly and eventually loses its sharp edges.
Oh I got shivers down my spine turning 999 likes into a 1000
The type face on the English Metal Worker was a definite giveaway. Nice vid to help everyone identify fake cards for sure.
rudy needs to make a fun video getting rid of the cards in many ways.
"Hi, my name is Liliana Vess, and this is Jackass !"
Looks like he has v.1.0-2.0 of 's print runs. Maybe some of them are white/blue core ones. The new German paper, black core only, 4.0s are way better made. A friend has sets of Legacy/Vintage v.3.0/4.0 and I've sat with a few real B/U cards (Jump and Island) and its very hard to tell, even when looking for it. For people that wanna watch out for traders, take care of Revised duals, because those are super well made. The 3.0s are okay but not as bad as the ones Rudy is holding there in the end. Guessing the waxy "clear coat" but good ones, are v.3.0s. Did not see any there that looked like v.4.0s.
Would like to see the best of the fakes against the real ones. Maybe like top 10 best fakes from this bunch?
Ash Burn There are some that are indistinguishable to me, the most convincing ones I've seen are white border duals.
Many thanks to Mike and Rudy. A very educational video. Nice to have this to know what to look out for.
Is the pixel dot pattern pretty much the same overall throughout all magic? Or is it different depending on era, set, etc?
"Liliana doesn't have the correct scent at all"- Rudy 2017
These are for people who doesnt wanna spend 100+ Euro for small paper cards with a picture on it.... So.... namely 90% of ordinarie people.
i really wanted to start playing Paper magic and wanted to get an Azorius Control deck for modern. The mana base was 2k dollars. I looked at the mana base for 10 seconds without saying anything. Hit the X button and never wanted to get magic cards ever again.
Syrius Wormwood build budget... it ain’t that hard
@@SyriusY quitter
It looks like they took a marker and went around the foil stamp. The foil stamp being a bunch of mermaid glitter that was glued on haha
You will never need birth control with a personality like that.
Who would even want it with Papa Rudy? #havemahbabies
Are you kidding me? 10/10 would bang. He's hilarious!
Gem Of Magic 😂 I'm not being serious. I just like throwing jokes his way because he loves them to the top of comments 👉👍
my wife and i agreed to have a baby rudy, we will discuss the price with and without a recording
@Rudy I'm pretty sure you're my father. I've talked to mom who said he was some stranger and the only thing she remembered about him was he kept saying "I'm creepy", couldn't get it beyond 'floppy' and oddly enough kept calling it his "taco".
As a casual no it's not because we don't know any better. It's because we don't want to spend thousands on fucking cardboard. These at best 4.00 a card.
Shit like this scary me a lot, it may look crap today, but I think someday, the printing technology will be so high that anyone will be able to do counterfeit cards and all my collection will be wortless.
Caio Caos invest in stocks not magic cards
So, basically you are saying that Rudy will go bankrupt.
I doubt he has a serious investment in reserve list. Rudy is in the buying and selling business his stock is much more liquid than that. I'm sure he has his own personal collections worth a lot and probs a bunch worth of reserve list but I doubt he's leaning on it.
I'm probably the thousandth person to say this but it would've been nice to see a few real cards to compare to. Especially the middle-aged sets like Urza block. I'm pretty sure the average player has no idea what a lot of those printings looked like. To them the OG cards that looked like they were printed by WotC yesterday didn't even ring an alarm.That Chains might as well have been Commander 2017 lol.
these counterfeit people (the ones who alert the buyer they are buying counterfeits) are saving people money. These are prices of cardboard, and paying 1000 dollars or more for a deck of said cardboard is utter bullshit. Just because I don't have stupid amounts of extra money to spend shouldn't put me at a disadvantage.
"Tell me what you think"
Ok, I think you've taught me a few simple things to spot fakes if I ever need to. I appreciate you taking the time Rudy.
This is literelly the first video i'm dissapointed of. You've been handed a bag of gold with such a big sample set of counterfeits, and you blowed the opportunity. You should have spent more time in preparations for this one. Take these cards, sort them by edition, group by different flaws and do side-by-side comparison with real stuff, pointing out what to look after. Ones that had orange back were clear, but other were much less, and your constant "feels terrible" just doesn't tell us anything! Please prepare in advance - get some on-camera lens to show us real vs fake print patterns, calipers to measure thinkness, explain how much wax should be there (just don't show your balls for a reference), and how to do all tests properly. I'm sure for any edition you have a common or two you could sacrifice for tests and explain print nuances for these sets to look after. I know you did a bit of that in one of your previous videos, but i think this topic is deep, and content would be unique, and it doesn't have to be all in one video. Thanks
Yea this is a fan mail video, he has plenty of other videos where he properly explains counterfeits and shows every little detail and differences between real and fake.
Nice try, Mr. Counterfeit man
The reason he doesnt want to give specifics is so the counterfeiters watching this video won't have enough information to make perfect replicas and can still be recognized as counterfeit
I couldnt tell any were fake except for orange backs and the older set black bordered cards... you just cant fake shit printing back in the day an 30 year old paper!
If you want to have kitchen table fun, just print out proxies and put them over a basic land with sleeves. A TON cheaper!
"WHO'S GOING TO COUNTERFEIT A FIVE DOLLAR TITAN??!!"
Rudy’s toes in flip flops had me dying
Wow, this video made me want to check my stuff I recently recieved for fakes, and sure enough I found a fake force of will
Alex ya man, I'm scared to buy anything on ebay anymore. I wonder if vendors process counterfeits, because if so then boxes from Wizards wrapping seems to be the only way to get cards, which would suck royally.
Kevin Johnson Agreed
I think i"d be happy to find that out then I could get my money back from paypal.
Somebody's gonna find those someday and be like "JACKPOT!!!"
Stuff like this really scares me. My cards could be worthless.
I know 0.O me too... I start checking all my Legacy decks every single time!!!!
Don't worry, most counterfeits out there are crap and can be spotted from miles away...
And even if they're good, if you saw real ones before, you'll be able to tell the difference.
The problem is that sometimes printing can be way off, especially among different languages and print runs of the same set. I have many worthless and really different-looking commons from the earlier sets that nobody in their right mind would counterfeit. This looks like really bad quality control from WOTC.
I've got a lot of fakes, and most of them are pretty obvious. Get a jewelers loupe and a handheld black light and you'll be fine.
Even for proxies they seem good enough for EDH or casual. I mean it beats using plains.
Hey Wizards if you are reading this, how about you reprint these cards at a fair price (modern masters is not fairly priced) so we dont have to go to alternate sellers?
They also don't have to worry about them showing up a tournaments since no one wants to risk the inevitable deck check and perma-ban. As far a Wizards is concerned it's still cheating.
I think for every one DCI player there's about 100 who play who will never be within a 20 mile radius of a magic tournament. And those players have ZERO incentive to have authentic cards.
as a person who doesn't own a single magic card who just watches videos on youtube this kind of information is good if I ever decide to get into the game..
Same. I was thinking about getting a couple old fake decks to try some game play but it's still $50 for a fake set. I'm not paying that for a deck of cards.
I've got a counterfeit Gaia's Cradle that my local shop wanted to buy off me until I told them it wasn't a real card. The counterfeit is from South America. They look and feel pretty damn convincing.
If your life savings is a Jund deck: Save more.
Also, about hte hoolo foil stamp, WotC has a CUSTOM made holographic pattern, if you look closely they are the planeswalker simbol and the mana simbols shifting depneding on the angle, also the pattern is large enough that it doesnt fit on a single stamp, so you only see a small fraction of the pattern in a single card (aka; a random small part of the foil used)
That stamp has a normal circular pattern that looks nothing close to a real one. I would actually be surprised if someone pulls a holographic pattern like the one WotC uses, since they are SUPER expensive to make and get.
Rudy can you maybe make another video where you put some of the best fakes right next to real cards?
Because some of them are indistinguishable to me... can you compare them?
He'll never do that because it would undermine his business.
wouldnt it legitimize it?
Except it would show just how good some of the proxies are now. Notice how he always goes back to the "feel" of the card... that waxy finish? Proxies ship with extra wax so that the feel can be tailored by the buyer (aka- aged properly). A light vinegar wash can reduce the wax down to the bare card, if desired. The Rosettes are getting better and better with each printing... the light test depends entirely on the paper, and can be faked... coloring would be a great indicator, save for the fact that WotC's own coloring varies drastically in a set... He'll never show good proxies in the same frame as original cards because it would destroy buyer confidence in the very product he sells.
there are better proxies than the best proxies a proxy collector holds in his binder?
Rudy said those looked way off. I'd like to see a comparison so I feel safe when ordering cards, knowing I can spot fakes.
People already know proxies exist, making people aware of how to spot them can only make your business stronger I feel.
These aren't proxies. These are counterfeits. Proxies are INTENDED to be noticed AS proxies.
"AHH the Orange back. We're done" I enjoyed this way more than I should have, when he dropped the card as if it burned him.
I have a man crush on you Rudy... in the creepiest, most shameful way.
just because I have a man crush on 80s mustache Rudy doesn't mean I want him to take me to the original pound-town. I mean, if wanting Shady Rudy to slap a sticker on my balls after selling me some overpriced bulk rares makes me gay... then I'm not prepared with an argument at this time.
+1
Steven Jaworski, that was literally one of the most epic comments I have ever read LMFAO
Hey Rudy, love your content.
If you're worried about glare, a good way to get rid of it is to use a polarized filter on your camera.
Rudy what am I supposed to do if my taco stays non-floppy for more than 3 hours?!
That means it's fake.
Great video. Thank you for that public service announcement.. Funny too.
I would tap that.
The hollow foil stamps also have mana symbols in the stamp when you look at in just right.
You have something against orange people? I thought the Oompa Loompas were supposed to teach us about morality...
Ahh the Alpha Orange Lotus, my favorite morning breakfast drink.
How can I aquire some of thrm for my casual play,
To a certain extent the glare on cards is unavoidable. But if you have the ability to reduce the ISO on whatever camera you use that helps cut down. I shoot IRL drafting videos at our FLGS and I shoot at ISO1600. At 800 it's too dark and at 3200 the cards shine like the beacons of Gondor. But 1600 is usually perfect.
I'm pretty sure if you'd play with 90% of these cards in a tournament nobody will realize...
The thin paper/easier to bend cards can be noticed pretty easily even while just shuffling the deck or picking up the card. The colours aren't that easy to spot through double sleeves though.
Might be different with other proxies, I have the cheap ones in the white box on the very left of the table. They were like 12$ for 55 proxies, including power, duals, fetches.
I'm pretty sure many chinese fakes started out as basic lands, that got the paint removed with acetone or something, then they photo printed on the same card stock, so they pass all the card-stock tests. You need a jewler's loupe to determine that they are fakes.
Rudy, I agree on them feeling off, both physically and generally. I got my first counterfeit recently in a City of Traitors, spotted it within seconds even though it was a better fake than those shown, Walker' s sig looked so uncrisp and so did the set symbol, color of the border and feel were off too. I agree that those fooled will be the unknowing so I commend you for doing more videos on the topic
Anyone else notice how truly uncomfortable this made Rudy feel. Props for doing the video regardless though
I just got a proxygasm. damn nice video!
And special thanks to the person sending them to Rudy!
I'd love for fakes to get much better so that Wizards gets off their asses and does away with the reserved list so that it's possible to do what the game was created for, play it.
With good fakes, Wizards won't have much of a choice if they don't want their tournaments to end up being 90% fakes.
No hate on scumbag Rudy for investing and buying out.
Don't hate the player, hate the game.
He smelled the card, to make completely sure it was fake.. hahaah
Schlafrok : Hey Mike, what did you do today?
Mike: Oh nothing I sent a schmuck thousand real magic cards and watch him fret over them for 24 minutes. Hbu?
Honestly this makes me grateful that I've been a diligent collector over the years. I know all of my cards are real because they came out of sealed product when they were released. I have also bought tons of bulk cards over the years, but I never mix the two. And actually that was a fat return, back when you could buy you know, five thousand "random" cards for fifty bucks on eBay. One of those boxes I was just looking through the other day, since I'm trying to inventory my bulk collection, and there were six or seven pack fresh NM Revised Wheel of Fortunes -- or maybe Wheels of Fortune? -- sitting right up front just for starters. The prices for these cards are crazy these days.
Who cares, it makes casuals able to get in on playing without paying a ton
11:16 Dude, those are just silver sequins glued in a circle lol
plot twist there all real
Orange is the new black... lotus. lol I couldn't resist!
Mox Apricot....
Wish he would have lifted that thumb, because I WANT to buy some counterfeits. They fascinate me to no end.
I don't think it's a good idea to buy them knowing they are counterfeit because you feed the cycle.
Jennifer A the reserve list and market demand drive counterfeits. artificial scarcity is a bad idea.
Jennifer A To be fair he did imply he didn't "buy" much of it.
Jennifer A He got refunds via paypal
Why is the proxy market a bad thing? If they are as easy to spot as Rudy suggests they are (only they aren't), then the genuine MtG Market has nothing to worry about... Moral of the story, don't treat your card game as an actual long-term investment.
Imagine how much more exciting the tournament scene could be if people had the card provided to them for deckbuildign for tournament. Wizard seem to think people won't spend money if that happen while this make no sense.
The only time i'd use proxies is for my commander decks, and even then it'd be obvious fakes, like fanmade card frames, old card frame on new cards, new frames on cards that haven't been reprinted in the new frame, sixth edition test frame, futureshifted frames for non-futureshifted cards, full art on cards that don't have full art prints, stuff like that.
As long as what's written on the card is the same as the real thing I couldn't care less.
This makes me want to try printing magic cards at my print shop to see if I can beat those counterfeits lol
As long as you don't try to pass them off as real that'd be a fun video to watch
I would love to have some of these for my cube! Im willing to pay for the shipping also! Message me please
David Corneau SAME RUDY
David Corneau same
check alibaba.com for mtg proxy. recommend Villa Zheng's. he's got a YT channel too
I have bought something like that white box of proxies just to see how good they were and it was only about 29.99 which is still cost, but to me it was worth to see what the "best" proxies look like since I have been playing for 20 years and I am getting to the point were I am starting to buy cards that are higher end one for nostalgia and two just to have.
like omg rudy you are totally giving instructions on making fake cards, this video needs to be taken down asap and you need to go to jail
from across a table at a legacy or modern tournament, they would look legit enough to play.
1 dislike, propably from mike.
Hehe, I can't help think Mike saying, "You should see my real collection..." *snickers*