More Church Fathers You Should Know (Part 2 of 3)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ม.ค. 2020
- In this second part of our series on the Church Fathers, Bishop Barron takes a look at some important Church Fathers from the pre-Nicene and Nicene periods, including Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Origen, Athanasius, and Gregory of Nyssa. A listener asks how we can understand Purgatory and Heaven in relation to time.
Find links to all mentioned books here: wordonfireshow.com/episode213
I'm an evangelical Protestant but I respect Bishop Barron. He's very smart.
Respect your humility and honesty!🙏
I thoroughly enjoy these extended investigations of Church figures and their theology
I am going to have to watch this later. However, I made extensive use of the apostolic fathers in my own writing, and I found that they are definitely not Southern Baptists.
🤣🤣🤣
lol
Thank you Mommy Mary! Thank you God Father, Son and Holy Spirit! Thank you all Glory from God! Thank you blessed Souls of Purgatory! Thank you Bishop Barron!
Have been doing Bible Studies in my parish for over 10 years. I am now being asked to start taking a look at the Early Church Fathers. Feels like a massive undertaking, but what little I've is truly breath-taking. Would love to see WOF do a series of videos on them.
Once you dive deep into the Church Fathers teachings, your soul and perspective on life will never be the same.
You will love the way they draw you into the divinity of Christ.
Enjoy!
Best series to date! Bravo!
I truly love how you connect the ages to our present time. It seems to me that when you shine light on the first, second and third century it makes it easier to connect the dots on present day Christianity. You have also made it clear that if we follow the teachings of these great teachers, present day Christianity is the same as then.
Thank you Bishop for helping us to REMEMBER to love and serve God in All and all. You ARE a blessing!
The "why" to knowing and appreciating history...thank you both!
This series is very informative and interesting! I am loving it, and thank you so very much for sharing your knowledge.
Thank you for this very informative delve into our Catholic foundation.
Please develop more comments on Gnosticism and why it is "alive and well today". Thanks.
Thanks Bishop and Brandon.
Love Word On Fire show,reflections etc
I'm loving this series, thanks!
Love this series! Thank you! 🙏
Bishop Barron’s a badass. Just casually pulling out French, referencing tons of historical and philosophical figures, and dealing with that head-scratching question at the end. My new idol haha but forgive me though…
Believe me, I wish I'd discovered him before, say, other public intellectuals in my early twenties...
Thank you God for gifting us the intellect and communication skills of your servant Bishop Barron 🙏🏻
One time for his Christmas homily, he pulled out the genealogy of Jesus, and preached a brilliant sermon on it.
"Pro gamer move" as the kids say, or said at some point recently.
Eden Johnson, yes! It is our place to pray for the protection of the priests, bishops, and the Holy Father...every day....and to love and APPRECIATE their service to us. If we don’t stand for something we will fall for anything. And always: God bless the Pope. Eden you sound very sincere.....how long have you been Catholic?
Thank you Bishop and Brandon
Could we get a history of philosophy from Bishop Barron? Putting Biblical Christianity in dialog with philosophies through the centuries, is a fascinating subject.
Peter Kreeft who does some videos with word on fire does this. Highly recommend.
Thanks Bishop Barron..
The conviction of Athanasius to stand “Against the World”, All Grace and Mercy from Our Heavenly Father.
Thank you 🙏🏾
Thanks much for this video.
Wonderful. Thank you.
Thank you Bishop
You talking about catch reminded me of a nun in my primary school telling us of a game that Jesus may well have played when he was a child based on findings from that time. It was an improvised ball that was sort of palmed in a volleyball fashion between several players until one missed and it fell to the floor.
Praise the lord
Great! I hope can to see it don't know if i get megas but i'll pray. One month else and it's my Birthday, always from i born in this Day i was ill or crying, just few times i had concience of be fine or not alone, but is not a matter, the matter is i love pass my Birthday on a lake swimming but i don't know swim or only i Love Jesús Christ and i wanna pass All my Time with Him without matter or trouble, i'm not public person so i doesn't give interviews. And i'm not magician i'm who Trust God! And no body else but i love all from Saint Holy Spirit! 😇😇😇 Serious.
I love "Against Heresies".
It's interesting, because I have yet to read it, but I've already quoted it. I have read parts of it, I don't like it when people take things out of context, so I don't want to be guilty of doing that either.
Excellent series - as is everything the bishop does...
Anyone know what the theme tune is??
This video title reminds me of what Jesus said, "And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."
I wanted more on Gregory of Nyssa! Especially about apokatastasis... :(
Daniel Ketler - dear Daniel, go to your library and carry on there. That’s what l did at 17 (l’m 78 now) and l went from brought-up Catholic to thinking/understanding/life-long Catholic. For easy recreational reading over a cop of coffee, get hold of C.S. Lewis’ classic “Mere Christianity”. That was the first book l read and it’s great - clear, interesting, truly informative A-Z of Christianity. God bless you - Margaret
@@margaretbrauer5520 I read Mere Christianity as a teenager too! There's nothing like a library. :)
I love the apokatastasis theme. I have studied a fair bit on the topic. In the end, we will all see each other again. We will meet all our beloved ones who have passed away at the final Great Jubilee of Jubilees.
I like this esp since the EO claim the Fathers belong only to them.
Two things on Gregory that impacted my journey the most. 1. The consensus is that he too believed in the universal restoration of all, so I would hesitate to say that this belief is heretical. His comments seem pretty clear. 2. Read his comments from the Life of Moses on why the killing of the first born of Egypt by God would be immoral if read as literalistically true.
It took me a while to understand the gift was a baseball mitt! 1:27
I would love to see a vídeo about the Pope Benedict XVI , work in theology
Bishop Barron please go on the Joe Rogan Experience, I think Joe Rogan himself and his audience would find your knowledge of the fathers both interesting and apologetically powerful
BTAX I’d love to. Ask him.
BTAX Let’s start an instagram campaign. He needs to go on Rogan.
Why not have the music for the final question be the same as the music for the final jeopardy question? Very interesting subject by the way.
Starting @27:11 , Bishop Barron observes that unreadable prose masks bad thought. That's universally true, I'd dare venture. In my field, I consider someone as knowledgeable if he can explain technical concepts using the least jargon.
When he said that all the post-modernists immediately came to mind.
I agree. Until it can be explained so simply a 6-year-old can grasp the concept, it isn't truly understood.
He says it more eloquently than I ever could. I wholeheartedly agree.
Do you delve deeper on the Fathers in other videos?
Dear bishop barron I have had a ton of bad happen to me.I have lost my home, car and most important of all my oldest son was wrongly convicted and received a 99 year with no parole and my youngest son doesn't know if God is real anymore. I'm working to get back to the Christian I used to be. I keep getting told I have to be a Baptist, Pentecost, God can't answer my prayers cause I sin.I can't hear God cause I sin. You have to pray to Jesus not God. You have to pray out loud and have a witness. That God can't read your mind. So many things God can't or won't do because of this in all the Bibles I have read God can do anything and he knows what is in our hearts, mind,and soul.I have always believed God can do anything were we can't. My son who is incarcerated speaks very highly of you. My sister is in very bad health. I can get pass loosing material things but I really need my family. I pray you can pray for my family Michael, Rodney, and Pat. Any advice you can give me. Trying to get back to God. Love Shirley
Did any of early church Father teach there was a Purgatory or did that come later?
What bookstore in Santa Barbara is he talking about?
What is the difference between a"Church. Father '. and a "Doctor the Church". ?
Dear Bishop, could you please prove the "Filioque" and the infallibility of Pope (Rome bishop) using Church Fathers ?
These are two obstacles between Western and Eastern Churches.
Recently I have read a 600-pages dogmatic book of Orthodox Church, and now would like to compare with Catholic background for these two dogmas.
In other words, why are you not Orthodox but Catholic? :-))
two facts should cause us to be very cautious when giving too much credit to the 'church fathers'. Paul's warning at Acts 20:28-30 where he fortold that 'amoung the leaders of the church 'men would arise and speak twisted things'. And secondly the fact that the Hellenist culture of greek philosophy was so prevelent and admired by all interllectuals that it greatly influenced the church fathers reasonings & subsequesnt writings! We only need the New testement for our faith!
Bishop Robert Barron, can you hear me?
I agree. Everyone mentioned is essential reading. I wonder if Francis has read any of them? I wonder if he's heard of any of them? I think he's more into Bill Nye the Science Guy, Dr. Phil, etc.
Two things, first of all, Pope Francis barely speaks English, and does not watch television, so he's not going to know who Bill Nye the Science Guy is. Second of all, I always preferred Beakman. Third of all, if I recall correctly, Pope Francis actually used to teach chemistry, which means he probably knows more about science than you do or I do. My mother's own background is in biology, which I'm terrible at, but I'm fairly good at physics. I would like to see the evidence that you will present me, that says Pope Francis believes in pop science.
How about you guys just do longer episodes?
O Theos and Theos is Father and Son (Son of the Father) in the Greek mind behind the words of the language. One Father and son.
So in discussing Origen the bishop mentions apokatastasis in the same breath as other problematic views that Origen had but when talking about St. Gregory of Nyssa, whose orthodoxy is not in question, the bishop fails to mention that he too believed in ultimate reconciliation? Come on...
☆☆☆☆☆
THE CONDEMNATION OF ORIGEN IN THE SIXTH CENTURY?
The radicalization of Origenism among monks in Palestine in the first half of the sixth century, also favored by the circulation of Evagrian works and expressed in the Book of the Holy Hierotheos (in which apokatastasis espoused forms of Christian pantheism), precipitated the so-called condemnation of Origenism wanted by Emperor Justinian in 543 and 553. This condemnation was not directed against Origen’s own thought (though Justinian was oblivious to this), but rather at a misconstruction of his ideas and a number of distortions and radicalizations of Origen’s doctrines. This is the way in which Justinian received an account of Origen’s ideas from his theological counsellors, who were hostile to the radical Origenism of their own day. A contemporary source, Cyril of Scythopolis, traces sixth-century Origenism back to “Pythagoras, Plato, Origen, Evagrius, and Didymus” (Vita Cyriaci 12). The same was done by Justinian and his counsellors; thus doctrines of sixth-century Origenism were misattributed to Origen himself.
Continues here: drive.google.com/file/d/16upypoy8ZQFv6Iieat7iA8peghvpzFNZ/view?usp=drivesdk
I’d highly recommend Fr John Behr’s new CORRECTED translation of On First Principles ... cf. patristicapokatastasis.wordpress.com/2019/12/23/on-first-principles/
1 Corinthians 15,28 - “And, when all things have been subordinated to him, then will the Son himself also be subordinated to the one who has subordinated all things to him, so that God may be all in all.”
An address of St. Gregory the Wonderworker to Origen, which he spoke in Kaesarea in Palestine, after studying with him for many years, and just before he departed for his own country.
drive.google.com/file/d/1cR8JST2ZS2Z-o8ZptCIp5K1ap6DbwNK1/view?usp=drivesdk
and
Letter from Origen to St Gregory the Wonderworker of Neokaesarea - “How and to whom the investigations of philosophy are helpful for the interpretation of the sacred Scriptures, with scriptural testimony.”
drive.google.com/file/d/1pBUGNcx0shcIA5050hMznqWLsYa4feun/view?usp=drivesdk
Father, respectfully I would like to mention that I am conservative but in no way am I anti-intellectual.
Well, who said that one implies the other?!
I don't like calling myself an intellectual, because I feel like I might sound pompous if I do, but I am also a bit of a conservative, and I am well read and I like to write. I have many many books , some of which I am sure I will never be able to read. I dare not say you are not an intellectual because you are conservative, it is important to remember, that some people who lean liberal are anti-intellectual in their own way.
Adam Hovey Friend, Im still not sure where this concern of yours is coming from!
@@BishopBarron First of all your Excellency, thank you for responding to me. Second of all, I was just trying to comfort our friend, here. Thank you for your ministry and all you do, God bless you!
Almost nothing here about Justin and apologetics.?
15MAY2024.
I have been told by Monica full if Christians that early Christians did not practice infant baptism. Did not go to church on Sundays, and that the doctrine of Original Sin was not developed until three hundred year after the a poster original sin was developed. The oppressed, the Christians became the oppressors once Roman Catholic the State Religion. First they oppressed the pagans, then the Jews, and then those darn heretics. 😇😎😉
Cool, but why should Christianity declines embraced secularism?
The early church fathers' basically merely defines those intellectual men forecful enough to dominate within the congrgations of early christians, in the main, simple, sincere people (like Jesus disciples). Strongly influenced by greek philosophy which formed their education, their writings contain multiple expanations of deep spiritual matters humans can ony guess at. They were mostly preocupied with the 'Logos' ( the Word ) claiming that it was the 'reason & mind of God' e.t.c rather than a merely title that John chose to call Jesus Christ the Son of God. The 'Word' is only mentioned very few times and only in John's gospel. nowhere in Matt, Mark or Luke. Absent from Paul, Peter & James epistle and onyl mentioned once in Rev where it clearly applies to a PERSON. The apostles warn us constantly to be wary of all future ideas, claims & creeds of the 'leaders' & bishops' not only after the demise of the apostles but even while they were alive" ( Please see Acts 20:28-30. 1 Tim 4:1. 2 Peter 2: chapter two.) Matt 7:15-23. 1 John 4:1. 2 John 7. 3 John 9. Rev 2:15. Faith must be based on the Holy bible alone!
"Anti intellectualism is a bad sign" - isn't that true particularly of the present resident of the White House?
why do you say that? Why do you even bring it up?
No more than your comment.
@@davidmaxwell4404 I'm a little curious too, because I do think as Christians we should be politically active, but that comment on a video about the Church fathers was not appropriate. If that was the topic of the video, that would have been something else.
@@davidmaxwell4404 because that person is anti-intellectualism personified.
Heres the difference between me and believers. Right about 9:30 he says paraphrased "we dont just blindly accept the information, we think about, we mull it over, we treasure it."
That last bit "treasure it." Is the difference. What any skeptical and to my mind honest person should replace that with is something like this "we dont just blindly accept the information, we think about it, we mull it over, and then we test it and try to prove it wrong."
The "dont blindly accept" is undercut by "treasured" in the way the bishop puts it because why would you treasure information that you dont already accept? Whereas the way i put it, is how progress towards actual truth and understanding gets made.
Do you(any christian reading this that is) think islamic theology isnt mulled over and treasured by muslims? Hindu and Buddhist and jewish theology by their proponents and apologists? Which theology can revise itself if its wrong? Which religion runs prayer experiments or holy water experiments to see if they actually do anything? None of them.
*summons bishop barron angry voice* So dont tell me!... that your religion is reasonable and intellectual just because you think about things you already believe are true. Thats not how reason works!
Come on friend, that's completely unfair. The treasuring goes on after the determination of truth. We would never treasure any information uncritically. What you intend by "testing" I intended by "mulling over and thinking about it." Theology, incidentally, revises itself all the time, which is why there is a tradition reflecting developments in doctrine.
Ellie Sarke
Great point Ellie Sarke, however as a believer I think properly understanding the spiritual world does require a type of humility to admit that we as mere mortals don’t fully understand everything. It bugs me to not be able to subject all spiritual concepts to an observable test and thereby determine their validity but I feel I must humble myself to access this and admit of another way of knowing. For me, having an unchanging truth source is critical; I don’t understand those who happily accept changing theology and new revelation.
@lance leebrick or you could just say you dont know. In my mind thats the humble and honest thing to say when one has questions they cant answer.
I'll admit i have preconcieved notions of what you mean by "another way of knowing" but id like you to describe what exactly that means to you in your own words.
Thanks Ellie-to my way of thinking there is the empirical, observable arena in which we have complete confidence in math (for instance) as we observe that 2+2 really does equal four. In another arena there are valid conclusions that are arrived at by faith that provide a way of knowing that while arrived at completely differently still have value. That arena is a bit dissatisfying in that it seldom allows for direct observation but nonetheless the results have merit. Seeing compassion or forgiveness lived out are powerful motivators for further affirmation or exploration of that kind of knowing. Unfortunately, the opposite behaviors are often demonstrated by people of faith which is quite disappointing. Hopefully I’m humble enough to admit I don’t have all the answers but I think I see a bit of progress now and then.
@@elizabethkraszewski6603 i am not Bishop Barron but I will just mention that there are arguments within Thomism to prove logically God's benevolence and Love, which would move the believer to theism.
They are usually forgotten because there is too much focus on the Five Ways today.
I am no theologian nor expert in Thomas Aquinas so I cannot explain it in my own words, but I can give you some links to it:
www.newadvent.org/summa/1006.htm
www.newadvent.org/summa/1020.htm
Lastly, remember that Faith (the Virtue that moves us to believe in God) isn't empirical but a supernatural gift. People can experience God in their life, but that experience isn't systematical, it isn't reproducible, isn't transmissible to other persons. It does not follow the scientific method in its outward/social sense. At best, you can use non-empirical reason to reinforce or spark an already existing Faith, like Aquinas does.
Maybe Joe Rogan experience?
Can you guys stop with the Joe Rogan thing.
F
Church fathers we should forget - Kung, Rahner, De Chardin, von Balthasar and De Lubac
Bishop if i die someday my seraphine and my martyr and my guard Angel will be together? At Ends? So now if the answer is yes, you know why i don't want to be at Earth, the only hope that i get is forget all too myself. I only want to see God self. Don't worry i can't to convince no one of this truth. And i'm not sad, i'm super extremely angry and happy cause i don't owe to God explanations, but i'm sad for all. They love God not his Will. I want to suffer and they don't trust. The day i leave this Earth i will be enterely happy. They denied me all, i can't do nothing. I confront them. No matter if the answer is yes. I'm absolutly waiting the Will from God. I can't hate, i feel me not too good like thinking maybe. Thank you!😇😇😇👼🔥
What is the point of talking about tradition nowadays? That's is all out the window now. Francis is making his way to a new synodal church.
Not to mention that will not come to pass anyway.
Traditions are just human conventions and we can change them. With Tradition, bishop Barron refers to the writings the first Christians left, and show us what they believed, how they interpreted Scripture and how they lived.