I’ve been very vocal about that .. but I’ll recap here: Choose your software, choose the hardware that supports it and get to work using those tools. I couldn’t care less if it’s Mac or PC.
You’re a legend Neil. I’m so glad you’re a TH-camr. You’re a natural and it’s about time the local Toronto legend became a global phenomenon. Also, it’s a great way for me to feel like I’m hanging out with you even though we never hang out.
Neil I've only known you since the beginning of this year, but you seem like such a fun and awesome dude! Fellow Mac Pro nerd/musician, and bearded! Keep being you man!
I'm not an audio professional, I'm not about to buy a Mac, I wouldn't even have the money for a decent Mac Pro, and yet here I am, being very intrigued by this.
Brilliant. Just what I was looking for. And you’re basically the only guy on the planet who decided to make a video like this. I thank you for your service!
Also note that memory upgrades should be ideally purchased 6 sticks at a time because hex channel memory and the power cables could be made custom for a given use case since the connector are able to be sourced fairly easily
Great advice Neil. I ended up going to a pro audio made PC. I’ll miss Logic Pro X, but, I couldn’t justify (no income), the Mac Pro £10.5k for me too. End cost of mine £4k, and very nicely specced.
Thank you. Super cool video that answered a lot of my questions. Would you consider do a video about your monitor set up? Monitor Controller , how you Eq the room etc? Thank you.
I wish I watched this a few weeks ago - just ordered my beast. I did the 16 core and feel good about my build out. Can't wait for it to all come and put it together! Thanks so much for your videos!!
@@NeilParfittMusic I think so - I just wished I watched your video before I slugged through researching everything myself. You and I chatted on Instagram months ago and that was helpful. The one thing I added to mine was the internal SATA drive bays - the 2 bay Pegasus J2i. I am going to use those drives for backups. I also am getting a OWC Thunderbolt 3 doc for more connections. I was surprised that the basic video card only had HDMI outputs on the card. So I needed to expand.
@@NeilParfittMusic true. I’m using DVI cables for monitors now and I am going to try a usb-c to dvi adapter so I don’t have to run any new cables. We will see!
Hello, I have never seen Your channel before, but WOW this is what I have always been looking for. Your content is exactly what I'm researching right now, and in my opinion You make incredible videos. So thank you for making this easier for Me ... I live in Toronto Ontario so yeah go Canada!! Thank you very much a.
I ended up buying mine back in may thanks to your videos in part. I mean, I was going to buy it regardless, but you convinced me to buy a custom desk too so I can fit my rackmount mac pro right next to me :)
Thanks man! I’m going through the same dilemma, and have arrived to similar conclusions. Didn’t know about the two Canadian peripheral manufacturers though. I’ll check them out. Greetings from Quebec! Stay safe :)
I guess we'll see what happens - for now, I'm 100% happy with this one on Catalina as everything works where's as on Big Sur PLUS M1 - only a small chunk of audio software works natvely.
I'm drooling over the rack mount for my scoring gigs Still using a 5.1 Mac Pro for recording . I think the price for these are gonna drop after the new M1X mini Mac pros come out. If these ever drop by half it's a no brainer.
Curious about future CPU upgrades. Apple told me when I inquired about this machine that the CPU can't be upgraded. Obviously, you don't want to break your warranty, but future-proofing your purchase is the main reason to buy this machine. I'm stuck on a 2013 MacPro and trying to figure out what to do. If I went base just to get in, is a CPU upgrade down the road realistic? And BTW, Go Canada. I'm a homeboy too :)
I'm about to move from a Radar Studio (windows 8.1) back to Mac and this has been extremely helpful. I'm keeping the ADA I/O sound cards, which I love the sound of, and installing them into the new Radar Converters so that I can get back to working in the Mac environment, which I'm most comfortable with. Thanks Neil! John Carpenter
I'm a Pro Tools Ultimate and Studio One user. I prefer Mac but realised I needed a higher end model and there's already no way I can afford the low end 2019 Mac Pro. So I'm building a 16 core AMD Ryzen PC. First time building one ever. It's a crazy ride. I'm documenting it on youtube too on my other channel, if anyone's interested. Much smaller box (I don't need PCIe) and a quarter of the price of a comparable 16 core Mac Pro. I've yet to get it running though, so don't take it as a success story just yet :D
For the drives, how do you split the Videos, Samples and Projects/Sessions? All on the RAID, or are some M.2s raided differently on the one PCI-E card? 2 cards?
I enjoy your videos Neil. One thing - Sonnet makes a silent (no fan) version of their M.2 cards. That's the ticket. comes with heat syncs and no noise. I did buy the Pegasus J2i which has a slot inside the new MacPro and it has slots for 2 8Tb spinning drives. Gives me 16TB of VERY affordable storage and is dead silent.
Depends on what you’re using the machine for. Any new machine is going to ship with Big Sur, and that’s the biggest wild card right now as a ton of stuff still isn’t compatible. I’m waiting for more powerful offerings - as the M1 is first taste of what’s to come.
"Geekbenches / Dollar" = ultimate measure of value! Over the last several years this number has been surprisingly consistent across all Macs of a given generation, controlling for ram, storage, and graphics. And the 2x performance increase is my minimum requirement for upgrading. It took 6 years for Macbook Pros to double in geekbench score. The 2019 16" I bought ended up being ~225% faster than my 2013...
Hey Neil, great informative video man thanks! based on your experience, what Processor upgrade do you think is a better choice for the old 2013 MacPro, 10 core or 12 core? thanks!
@@ElijahCiali I was considering those but I don't really need a computer that comes with a screen. (I already have a really good screen because I do graphic design as my main job.) And there are other reasons like the iMac being too big for my room and the fact that it cannot be used as a monitor for another PC. (Which is crucial for me.) I could get a Macbook, but again, don't need that screen. So, that leaves Mac Mini. (I think it's a little early for me to think about the new Mac Pro.) But with Mini it's hard to tell if it would have enough juice. Maybe I could buy a used trash can.
They’re great little machines - I just wished they had an i9 version. But, if not, unless you’re writing massive orchestral stuff, the Mac mini’s are great for plenty of situations.
They’re great little machines - I just wished they had an i9 version. But, if not, unless you’re writing massive orchestral stuff, the Mac mini’s are great for plenty of situations.
@@NeilParfittMusic That's true, although I think the upcoming Apple Silicon Mac Minis would totally smoke the i9. :D (I just wonder how will VSTs work in there. I haven't found any info about it. Logic will probably have some sandboxing build in. I wonder if Apple will let other DAWs use it as well or if every manufacturer will have to come up with their own solution.)
Watching this from a 1,1 Mac Pro with Xeon X5365's and the 2,1 firmware, 2x HD5770's (might stick something faster in it someday), 16gb DDR2 667mhz ram (soon to be 32gb for S&G's), 4 hard drives, OS X 10.7.5 (will likely stay with 10.7.5 since hes left all of the software he used on the hard drive) This machine was my dads video/photo editing workstation, he used to be a major stake holder in a video production company in Melbourne, who had a pretty close relationship with apple (since the company bought so many Apple machines, and was a Apple Business Customer). He purchased it from Apple as a maxed out demonstration model that had just done a trip around Australia, when Apple was like "Hey we have finished demonstrating this machine around Australia, do you want it?". My dad said yes and he purchased it for himself for a good deal. He used it daily from when it was purchased in late 2006 to about mid/late 2018 and it never missed a beat. Recently gave it a clean out and a CPU upgrade, it was nasty in there, heat-sinks nearly completely blocked and dust bunnies everywhere, surprisingly it wasn't overheating at all, anyway its all clean now and runs flawlessly to this day.
Hey Neil just purchased a base model and looking to do lots of sync work so my question is, with your ram config do you think you would be good with 192GB enough for lots of virtual instruments or would you highly recommend 384? Input would be appreciated!
192 is a ton and I don’t think you’d run into any problems. I went with 384 with 6 sticks so if I’d I ever decided on more, I wouldn’t have to throw away any existing memory and could add 6 more.
that shirt bro. ☑️☑️ as a mac pro owner, i can say this is all very sound advice also: “how much memory is right for you? NONE from the apple store!” so true - had me cracking up. especially when i saw the pricing when making the purchase. i chose the 16 core, and i have a 24 core tray i might try...with the base 32 gigs and grabbed 128 gigs of nemix, which is a great option as well. excellent point on the base card - if i didn’t also do video editing and graphics, i wouldn’t have upgraded - i tried both of their cards and they both have tons of issues, as well as problems with ultra wide monitors that i had to use an adapter to fix. my advice for those who need it? get a radeon vii or something.
OWC was saying the 2019 Mac Pro doesn’t have triple-channel so it doesn’t matter how many RAM cards you use. Any idea if this is true? I have 4 cards but was maybe going to get 6 just to take advantage of it. But it seems like it’s a moot point. Thanks
@@NeilParfittMusic oh no kidding. Yeah they weren’t sure and had to look it up and came up with no it’s not triple so no you don’t need to run six sticks. But I’m going to defer to your expertise. In that case I will order another pair of sticks so I have six. What kind of performance increase is there by having six sticks, aside from obviously having more RAM? Thanks again
@@DistrictSoundLab I don’t have benchmarks. It’s not going to be a night/day kinda thing - just the optimal way the cpu and memory works together. Ie: you’d want to run 6 chips vs 5. Even though this is from Dell - it has a good breakdown of the concepts: downloads.dell.com/manuals/common/balancing_memory_xeon_2nd_gen.pdf
great videos Neil! Thanks for sharing. I wonder if you can run those acustica-audio plugs? I bet you know about them but because they are so intensive you don't use them. Really great videos! Thanks :)
acustica-audio? a bit of patience is needed with them, those plugs are SO intensive,, maybe they could be coded better perhaps. You need to download ‘aquarius’ which is their plug-in loader. First create an account i think then download aquarius. The plugs are super cool, but just too unstable i get cpu spikes on my new hackingtosh! i reckon even with your mac pro it would give you crap too.
Thanks Neil for all this info. Question - Did you need to update the firmware for those Samsung M.2s? Basically the only bad reviews on that SSD are mac users. I just got the squid card and am shopping now for the modules. I might try those Sabrents- they are so tempting and are mac ready out of the box.
@@NeilParfittMusic lol...hey I would love to see and hopefully learn something from it.....I imagine it's not all fun all the time in your line of work, but I bet the fun parts are really memorable.
what's the real-world performance (actual test) on this build? how many vsti's? how many convolution reverbs? how many audio tracks? how many general-purpose eq/comps? how many instances of serum can it run (a well known heavy cpu vsti)? how many instances of ni's massive x vsti? i think this was a sensible value-driven buying approach. but how does the system perform under real workloads? that's the key factor.
problem with those type of tests... "I can run 2000 channels strips with W, X,Y'' with VI Z" is that those tests are never realistic either as no session is ever a sustained crunch like that. It's all about the random chaos of madness coming and going in waves and bursts... especially in television and film where you just need a ton of crap sitting there, routed and ready to be triggered. The show I'm writing on now, my template is well over 1000 tracks, nothing is offline/bypassed, there are at least 60 Kontakts in VEP each with 16 heavy sounds loaded within, there's eq everywhere, reverbs, compressors etc, plenty of local VI's in Logic (native and 3rd party), Protools up behind it dealing with stems, Resting template ram footprint is over 220GB. It's all just humming along for any cue I've been writing - from the teeniest thing to the most Boombastic orchestral hybrid cue. That's my real-world test so far - and I've done 10 episodes with this system writing. The other show is prepping/stemming score in Protools - the mix engine is HDX but plenty of the verbs, EQ, dynamics and such are surround and it's not breaking a sweat. This would have brought the trashcan to its knees in defeat. I've delivered 9 episodes of that so far.
Hey Neil, thanks for the video! I am also running a mac pro and I am wondering for the Amfeltec. I noticed there are fans on it, which I don't really want to have extra noise. I was considering getting the Sonnet they have a silent version without any moving parts. Have you heard anyone using that model from the industry?
You can take the fans off the amfeltec. There’s enough air flow in the machine to keep those m.2’s at a good temperature. Because there’s multiple double height bays, I put the card thrrr and kept the adjacent bracket off so more air pushes by. I also bumped the system Fan speed by 100rpm with Macs Fan Control and it’s caused no audible increase in system noise
Thanks Neil, love your video, that's exactly the config I want to go for my only concern is do you recommend spending this much money if the macpro switches to arm in 2 years? Does this mean that this machine will loose all its value if we want to sell it in like 4 years? Isn't Apple gonna force everyone to switch to their ARM processors by making updates to logic only work on Arm based mac and so on? I really want this machine but I don't want to wake up in 2 years thinking I spent 10K on something no one will be interested in. How did you take this news when Apple announce they won't work with intel anymore? Thanks a lot
It’s a hard question to answer. I think of this like any use situstion. If you’re absolute jammed in a corner pushing the limits of the older machines where it’s slowing your workflow and you’re compromising... then yes.. but if you’re “still fine” ... I’d wait it out.
Hey Neil, tell me about the 30” LG 4K display for $480. I’d love to find that. It’s time for me to retire my 30” Dell dual-link DVI monitor (after something like 13 years)! I’ve been looking for an IPS unit because It looks like the cheap 4K displays these days don’t have great viewing angle specs. I’m actually considering the Monoprice 32” !
Neil Parfitt totally appreciate it. Monitor shopping is hard during COVID. I’m often directly in front of the monitor while a collaborator or client is beside me, and they need to see all the action!
Hi Neil, thanks for the awesome nerdy video’s, love em! Do you have any advice for an amateur machine though around the 2-3k price? I’m still rocking a 3,1 Mac Pro with 8 core 2,8 and 10gb ram and was thinking about getting omnisphere or Xfer serum but after downloading a demo of serum, certain sounds already give me the dreaded last core spike in logic in a new session! 🤬 What’s the bare minimum or better yet budget sweet spot config like you showed here for a musicians needs of say 15 AU tracks like omnisphere and another 30 audio tracks? Go Canada!
You could squeeze a few more out of your current machine if you bump the chips to 3.2ghz Search for the Intel x5482 SLANZ. You can probably find a pair for under $250. It would bring your machine from 2.8 to 3.2 All you need is some thermal paste, a long 3mm hex, a philips screwdriver and about 20 minutes.
@@NeilParfittMusic Hi Neil Am really stressing about this. My 3.1 Mac Pro is giving me grief. Is is better for me to go for a refurbished 6.1 or look to the highestspec mac mini or 10 core iMac 2020. I'd be so grateful for a steer. Kind regards Geoff
I have watched most of your videos on your Mac Pro and just found out you were in Canada, not sure why I thought you were in LA or something. Loved the videos so far on Mac Pro stuff
Awesome video Neil - JUST what I needed ! What do you think of the OWC Accelsior 4M2 PCIe drives ? They claim over 6GB throughput for not that much more than regular M.2. SSDs.
I haven’t used the latest incarnation of them, but the first few I bought many many years ago both failed. Check forums and stuffs for more user experiences as I’m not sure how they are now
@@NeilParfittMusic OK, got it. Thanks very much for the reply ! I am totally new to this and don't even know a single forum that would be appropriate to check. Could you recommend any ? Thanks again for taking the time to make this great video. There must be a ton of people who needed EXACTLY this from someone who actually did it ! (like me)
Hey Neil!, I Really love your videos! You are super personable and you do an excellent job of explaining it so even I can understand haha! We share a lot of the same likes and humour so these vids are so great!! 👍🏼👍🏼. Question, I thought there was a link somewhere to the memory you purchased... I’ve been going through all your videos and can’t seem to find it. Any chance you could point me in the direction to what you use? I’m pretty sure I’ll be picking up the 16 core. Again... ty & I appreciate you so much! Stay safe my friend! Looking forward to your future videos! Go Canada!!! Haha!!! Love It!! 🇨🇦
Thanks 😀😀😀 I got them from Amazon - but it’s nemix. Looks like they’re having a sale: nemixram.com/apple-compatible-memory/mac-pro/mac-pro-2019-macpro7-1/
Thank You SO Much Neil! Very much appreciated!! I hope to meet/work with you one day when we’re through these crazy times! Being a St. Catharines boy, it’s not a far trip! Thanks again and ttyl! cc. 🇨🇦‼️
About the thunderbolt ports on the GPUs.. You won't get full bandwidth out of them and 2 ports share a single thunderbolt bus. It doesn't really matter unless you're going plug in an external SSD or a dock or something with high throughput.
If you, personally and hypothetically, were not constrained to the so called "industry standard" software and not constrained by the requirement for format compatibility - just you doing your very own thing - ... and let's also say you give yourself a generous amount of time where you can look through the many DAWs that are out there as well as the possible hardware for the box that runs the DAW that you will be choosing; would you have an idea now where you would gravitate towards? Things you would like to test for a deeper dive? I keep asking that question to audio pro users I know, and usually it just comes down to them really not wanting to try and learn new things... which is a shame because some of them leave workflow, performance and money on the table. Which inevitably means they are cutting away the most precious commodity they have. Their lifetime.
@@Teluric2 direct usage by me and my peers would prove otherwise. I'm not standing up for their repair policies (which are stupid).. but instead, from them running day in and day out in studios all over the place with uptime in the 99%
I threw 4 of the 2tb sabrent cards on an OWC card. Had some minor issues with Softraid, but those have finally been sorted. I also have 4 of the 1tb Samsung 960's, same card. Performance is within 10% between the two. I expect to throw in the 8tb by Q2 2021.
@@NeilParfittMusic Two builds back I would have the array randomly disappear. Luckily it's not doing it now. There were some forum posts on it. Since the updates though, i've been rocking fine. Still, I archive the two ssd's nightly just in case.
Great video and very sympathetic kind. I got the 16core for some months now and I´m kinda frustrated because I have expected some more power with Logic Pro. In special cases when using a large bus chain filled up with hungry mastering plugins I got permanent system overloads because Logic does not seem to be able to distribute the processor load evenly. In this mastering bus-into-bus case it can only address the first cpu thread. No matter what I do or change, this thread is peaking all the time while the other 31 threads are sleeping. For me it looks like Logic has not yet been optimized and with the new Mac Pro range. And as you said, the individual cpu cores are not the most powerful ones. For music production with many tracks and instruments works great, but when it comes to my 1-4 mastering bus chains it gets frustrating. Also a 6min song is bouncing about 8 minutes (offline). My previous machine was a Mac Pro (2009) and the difference in relation to this scenario makes me crazy, because i bought the MP to be able to work efficiently and fluently for the next few years, which is unfortunately not the case here.
Hrmm I wonder if there’s also some other factors adding to this issue. What’s your audio interface? Sample rate, buffer etc? I’m also assuming you’ve tried various configurations of LX audio. Trying different combos of live (reserves and pins a core vs playback tracks only). What’s your buffer and process size? Are these mastering sessions on top of the existing song session or a standalone template? FWIW logic has always been “meh” with multi core management - I usually park my selected arrange track to a go-nowhere midi track during mixing as it seems to spread cores better vs pinning a few. I’ve been doing that since ten years ago on L9. What mastering plugins are you using?
@@NeilParfittMusic Hey Neil, thank you so much for your reply and expertise. I´m on Logic and Mac for decades but this case really brings me down. Apple Pro Support has not yet been able to provide a solution, but you know that yourself, haha. I have tried different settings with playback & live tracks and even running on max buffer size (1024) does not help. Also switching to system audio instead of my Motu interface was not bringing any solution. Apple suggested to split plugins into busses and let the master out free, but even a big split with only one plugin per bus does not help to address more then the first thread. I´m also aware about the live midi track hack (rec button armed). Sometimes this helps, but looks pretty tough to keep this situation when working. Most times its a mastering template with just 6-15 stems. The biggest bummer in this scenario is always Izotope Ozone 9 which is eating 80% of the first cpu core. Without Ozone it runs much better, but still only one core gets addressed. Would be super great if i could drop you a mail, i got some screenshots and videos about this case. Big up for your friendly help !
So Neil how about Mac Vs PC then ? ;)
I’ve been very vocal about that .. but I’ll recap here:
Choose your software, choose the hardware that supports it and get to work using those tools. I couldn’t care less if it’s Mac or PC.
@@NeilParfittMusic I wasn't expecting a serious answer. (I agree btw)
You’re a legend Neil. I’m so glad you’re a TH-camr. You’re a natural and it’s about time the local Toronto legend became a global phenomenon. Also, it’s a great way for me to feel like I’m hanging out with you even though we never hang out.
Oh man! I feel like we need an Indian food rendezvous!!
@@NeilParfittMusic IM SO HUNGRY
Lot's of great info. I had figured that the 16-core was the sweet spot, but I learned a lot about the SSD situation. Perfect! Thanks.
Neil I've only known you since the beginning of this year, but you seem like such a fun and awesome dude! Fellow Mac Pro nerd/musician, and bearded! Keep being you man!
Thx Adam! 🤗
@@NeilParfittMusic what is the link for lg 4k 30 inch ?
I bought this one:
LG 32UK550-B
You’re a lovely dude Neil and i love how you care about and love your job.
I wish you all the best!
Thanks, Neil! This will serve as my buyers guide when i'm ready!
Wow. Really appreciate how you broke everything down number wise.
I'm not an audio professional, I'm not about to buy a Mac, I wouldn't even have the money for a decent Mac Pro, and yet here I am, being very intrigued by this.
Welcome!
Excellent video Neil. Thank you!
Brilliant. Just what I was looking for. And you’re basically the only guy on the planet who decided to make a video like this. I thank you for your service!
Also note that memory upgrades should be ideally purchased 6 sticks at a time because hex channel memory and the power cables could be made custom for a given use case since the connector are able to be sourced fairly easily
ah crap - forgot to mention that in the moment. Mentioned it in a previous vid. Good catch.
@@NeilParfittMusic could add it to the top of the description?
Neil, you ROCK! I was about to reach out to you again privately, but you answered my questions here. Thanks mate! Stay well. Cheers, Mark H
Absolutely spot-on buying advice 👍🏻
I totally agree
Great advice Neil. I ended up going to a pro audio made PC. I’ll miss Logic Pro X, but, I couldn’t justify (no income), the Mac Pro £10.5k for me too. End cost of mine £4k, and very nicely specced.
If the tool works for you and you’re happy with the result, that’s the perfect buying choice!
Excellent video and very well stated. I'll be able to forward this to the inevitable questions I get asked instead of having to create it myself!
Thank you. Super cool video that answered a lot of my questions. Would you consider do a video about your monitor set up? Monitor Controller , how you Eq the room etc? Thank you.
Hrmm that’s a tricky one, as I’m In a weird space. Using a trinnov DMON6 to calibrate the room, beyond the baffles
I wish I watched this a few weeks ago - just ordered my beast. I did the 16 core and feel good about my build out. Can't wait for it to all come and put it together! Thanks so much for your videos!!
Still sounds like you made a good decision!
@@NeilParfittMusic I think so - I just wished I watched your video before I slugged through researching everything myself. You and I chatted on Instagram months ago and that was helpful. The one thing I added to mine was the internal SATA drive bays - the 2 bay Pegasus J2i. I am going to use those drives for backups. I also am getting a OWC Thunderbolt 3 doc for more connections. I was surprised that the basic video card only had HDMI outputs on the card. So I needed to expand.
@@KevinMantheiMusic yeah, but ok the plus you can run hdmi further distances vs display port. Check out the Caldigit hubs as well...
@@NeilParfittMusic true. I’m using DVI cables for monitors now and I am going to try a usb-c to dvi adapter so I don’t have to run any new cables. We will see!
I just watched the trailer for Keanu then the algorythm leads me here - obviously because of your shirt! XD
Go Canada! Thanks for sharing that info. Super helpful.
I probably won’t buy a Mac Pro until at least 10 years from now, and by then this video will be obsolete, but this is a great video regardless!!
You are now my guru. Best info I’ve found yet and Don’t get me started on that cat shirt.
Excellent information! Thanks for taking the time to post this!
I love this guy, his sense of humor, and his style!
Hello, I have never seen Your channel before, but WOW this is what I have always been looking for. Your content is exactly what I'm researching right now, and in my opinion You make incredible videos. So thank you for making this easier for Me ...
I live in Toronto Ontario so yeah go Canada!! Thank you very much a.
Thanks Doug! Appreciate the kind words :) Tarannna represent!
Great walkthrough, super in depth and exactly what I've been looking for as I look at the best upgrade path for my studio
Most excellent review and breakdown, thank you!
Neil! It's 2020! As I really enjoy your videos, I wouldn't anyone to miss out thinking that it's old info.
Hrmm any suggestions for a title? Just lose the 2019? That is the model though ..
@@NeilParfittMusic A bit of marketing, just change the 2019 to 2020 or leave it out all together. Would anyone search for mac pro 2019 anyway?
Toine Bles thx ma’man.. updated :)
This was an excellent video. Great explanation of each choice!
Great stuff. Am in the market, so invaluable advice! Thanks!!
I ended up buying mine back in may thanks to your videos in part. I mean, I was going to buy it regardless, but you convinced me to buy a custom desk too so I can fit my rackmount mac pro right next to me :)
Nice! Any shots of the desk?
Neil Parfitt instagram.com/p/CD1qmzlg9IW/?igshid=1a6135t0dfb79
Thx
What about factoring in the new iMac if you didn't need a lot of PCIe cards?
If you don’t need all that expansion or nutty memory requirements and don’t care if it’s all-in-one, absolutely look that those machines.
Bloody brilliant advice and round up - Thanks Neil !
Looking forward to picking one up used in a few years.
Thanks man! I’m going through the same dilemma, and have arrived to similar conclusions. Didn’t know about the two Canadian peripheral manufacturers though. I’ll check them out. Greetings from Quebec! Stay safe :)
Would you still suggest one of these Mac Pro knowing what we know about the new M1 macs and that Apple will likely release M1X chips in Q1 2021?
I guess we'll see what happens - for now, I'm 100% happy with this one on Catalina as everything works where's as on Big Sur PLUS M1 - only a small chunk of audio software works natvely.
Totally awesome cat-shirt! Good info, too. ☺
I'm drooling over the rack mount for my scoring gigs Still using a 5.1 Mac Pro for recording . I think the price for these are gonna drop after the new M1X mini Mac pros come out. If these ever drop by half it's a no brainer.
Agreed!
Thank you for your sharing, this really helps. cas not everyone has a chance to dig into the new apple mac pro so soon... :D
just found your channel. dude you are amazing. Subscribed!!
Thanks Kevin! :)
14:30 I decided to buy a PCIe to M.2 adapter and used a 2TB NVME SSD as system drive. future proof, expandable … I don't use the apple SSD at all.
"turn wall into spaceship"
*mission complete*
Curious about future CPU upgrades. Apple told me when I inquired about this machine that the CPU can't be upgraded. Obviously, you don't want to break your warranty, but future-proofing your purchase is the main reason to buy this machine. I'm stuck on a 2013 MacPro and trying to figure out what to do. If I went base just to get in, is a CPU upgrade down the road realistic? And BTW, Go Canada. I'm a homeboy too :)
loved your video, could you do an episode on sound cards that works on Mac Pro 2019. Thus I can't find anything regrading on TH-cam.
I'm about to move from a Radar Studio (windows 8.1) back to Mac and this has been extremely helpful. I'm keeping the ADA I/O sound cards, which I love the sound of, and installing them into the new Radar Converters so that I can get back to working in the Mac environment, which I'm most comfortable with. Thanks Neil!
John Carpenter
I'm a Pro Tools Ultimate and Studio One user.
I prefer Mac but realised I needed a higher end model and there's already no way I can afford the low end 2019 Mac Pro.
So I'm building a 16 core AMD Ryzen PC. First time building one ever.
It's a crazy ride. I'm documenting it on youtube too on my other channel, if anyone's interested.
Much smaller box (I don't need PCIe) and a quarter of the price of a comparable 16 core Mac Pro.
I've yet to get it running though, so don't take it as a success story just yet :D
Really interesting videoNeil - thanks a bunch
As always, great video!
Great review Neil, very insightful. For now my upgraded Mid 2012 12 core will suffice for now.
Just discovered your channel...awesome stuff!!
Thanks and welcome! :)
awesome video, Neil. Thanks for sharing!
Holy shit and he uses openoffice. A man after my own heart.
Good god. I know the why. But how? That shits a heartbreaker piece of software.
Thanks! Can U do the same with new mac mini? compare to mac pro 2013?
no can do, as i have the cheapest one from a year or so ago just to run a backup array.
U saved me 10 grand, ur officially bro now!
For the drives, how do you split the Videos, Samples and Projects/Sessions? All on the RAID, or are some M.2s raided differently on the one PCI-E card? 2 cards?
I have 4 as a raid 0 for samples (always backed up!), a current “work” drive, and a misc drive for docs etc.
All on the PCI card, right?
Kerry Smith yep - the amfeltec I have can hold 6 m.2
I enjoy your videos Neil. One thing - Sonnet makes a silent (no fan) version of their M.2 cards. That's the ticket. comes with heat syncs and no noise. I did buy the Pegasus J2i which has a slot inside the new MacPro and it has slots for 2 8Tb spinning drives. Gives me 16TB of VERY affordable storage and is dead silent.
should I wait for a mac pro with the apple M1 chip? Is it coming out soon?
Depends on what you’re using the machine for. Any new machine is going to ship with Big Sur, and that’s the biggest wild card right now as a ton of stuff still isn’t compatible. I’m waiting for more powerful offerings - as the M1 is first taste of what’s to come.
@@NeilParfittMusic Thanks a lot :D
"Geekbenches / Dollar" = ultimate measure of value! Over the last several years this number has been surprisingly consistent across all Macs of a given generation, controlling for ram, storage, and graphics. And the 2x performance increase is my minimum requirement for upgrading. It took 6 years for Macbook Pros to double in geekbench score. The 2019 16" I bought ended up being ~225% faster than my 2013...
The i9 MBP is smokin!
Hey Neil, great informative video man thanks!
based on your experience, what Processor upgrade do you think is a better choice for the old 2013 MacPro, 10 core or 12 core?
thanks!
I had 12 core chips in my two 2013 machines and pushed them really hard! Only thing to watch out for is > 64gb ram drops ram speed down to 1333MHz
@@NeilParfittMusic thanks! I manage to find 64GB at 1866MHz. Anything more than that will decrease speed.
I am still in the beginning of my audio work journey. Would you say that the i7 Mac Mini would be a good machine to start with?
I would personally suggest a used iMac or a MacBook Pro.
@@ElijahCiali I was considering those but I don't really need a computer that comes with a screen. (I already have a really good screen because I do graphic design as my main job.) And there are other reasons like the iMac being too big for my room and the fact that it cannot be used as a monitor for another PC. (Which is crucial for me.) I could get a Macbook, but again, don't need that screen. So, that leaves Mac Mini. (I think it's a little early for me to think about the new Mac Pro.) But with Mini it's hard to tell if it would have enough juice. Maybe I could buy a used trash can.
They’re great little machines - I just wished they had an i9 version. But, if not, unless you’re writing massive orchestral stuff, the Mac mini’s are great for plenty of situations.
They’re great little machines - I just wished they had an i9 version. But, if not, unless you’re writing massive orchestral stuff, the Mac mini’s are great for plenty of situations.
@@NeilParfittMusic That's true, although I think the upcoming Apple Silicon Mac Minis would totally smoke the i9. :D (I just wonder how will VSTs work in there. I haven't found any info about it. Logic will probably have some sandboxing build in. I wonder if Apple will let other DAWs use it as well or if every manufacturer will have to come up with their own solution.)
Watching this from a 1,1 Mac Pro with Xeon X5365's and the 2,1 firmware, 2x HD5770's (might stick something faster in it someday), 16gb DDR2 667mhz ram (soon to be 32gb for S&G's), 4 hard drives, OS X 10.7.5 (will likely stay with 10.7.5 since hes left all of the software he used on the hard drive)
This machine was my dads video/photo editing workstation, he used to be a major stake holder in a video production company in Melbourne, who had a pretty close relationship with apple (since the company bought so many Apple machines, and was a Apple Business Customer). He purchased it from Apple as a maxed out demonstration model that had just done a trip around Australia, when Apple was like "Hey we have finished demonstrating this machine around Australia, do you want it?". My dad said yes and he purchased it for himself for a good deal.
He used it daily from when it was purchased in late 2006 to about mid/late 2018 and it never missed a beat. Recently gave it a clean out and a CPU upgrade, it was nasty in there, heat-sinks nearly completely blocked and dust bunnies everywhere, surprisingly it wasn't overheating at all, anyway its all clean now and runs flawlessly to this day.
Hey Neil just purchased a base model and looking to do lots of sync work so my question is, with your ram config do you think you would be good with 192GB enough for lots of virtual instruments or would you highly recommend 384? Input would be appreciated!
192 is a ton and I don’t think you’d run into any problems. I went with 384 with 6 sticks so if I’d I ever decided on more, I wouldn’t have to throw away any existing memory and could add 6 more.
@@NeilParfittMusic I appreciate it thank you!
Took 7 years, wonder how many years til we get the mac pro with the apple silicon?
400
I would say two years maximum. I would interpret "2 years transition period" (WWDC) as "all newly sold Macs will be Apple Silicon within 2 years.
that shirt bro. ☑️☑️ as a mac pro owner, i can say this is all very sound advice
also: “how much memory is right for you? NONE from the apple store!” so true - had me cracking up. especially when i saw the pricing when making the purchase. i chose the 16 core, and i have a 24 core tray i might try...with the base 32 gigs and grabbed 128 gigs of nemix, which is a great option as well.
excellent point on the base card - if i didn’t also do video editing and graphics, i wouldn’t have upgraded - i tried both of their cards and they both have tons of issues, as well as problems with ultra wide monitors that i had to use an adapter to fix. my advice for those who need it? get a radeon vii or something.
This was incredible, thank you!
:O :O :O I've never been this early. Nice shirt!!! :D
awesome guide. I still cannot buy it but it teaches about buiyng any computer on apple as well
Hey Neil, you mentioned you bought a LG 4K display for $400 odd CAD. Which display if you don't mind me asking? And where? Amazon.ca?
it must have been on sale as now it's $509. In February it was $429. I suppose that could be a pre-COVID price??
Search for the LG 32UK550-B.
@@NeilParfittMusic Awesome thanks mate. Much appreciated.
@@Screaming-Trees no prob!
Excellent video Sir! 👍
OWC was saying the 2019 Mac Pro doesn’t have triple-channel so it doesn’t matter how many RAM cards you use. Any idea if this is true? I have 4 cards but was maybe going to get 6 just to take advantage of it. But it seems like it’s a moot point. Thanks
Whoops my flub, i had meant to say six channel. So with that, it’s still optimal to run sticks in pairs
@@NeilParfittMusic oh no kidding. Yeah they weren’t sure and had to look it up and came up with no it’s not triple so no you don’t need to run six sticks. But I’m going to defer to your expertise. In that case I will order another pair of sticks so I have six. What kind of performance increase is there by having six sticks, aside from obviously having more RAM? Thanks again
@@DistrictSoundLab I don’t have benchmarks. It’s not going to be a night/day kinda thing - just the optimal way the cpu and memory works together. Ie: you’d want to run 6 chips vs 5.
Even though this is from Dell - it has a good breakdown of the concepts:
downloads.dell.com/manuals/common/balancing_memory_xeon_2nd_gen.pdf
Check out chapter 4 and 5.1
@@NeilParfittMusic thanks! Found something else similar. Glad I learned about this in your vid. Sending back the 4 32GB chips and getting 6.
Awesome Neil, keep it up 👍
great videos Neil! Thanks for sharing. I wonder if you can run those acustica-audio plugs? I bet you know about them but because they are so intensive you don't use them. Really great videos! Thanks :)
Their site is driving me nuts, I've been trying to create an account with no success as I've wanted to test them out
acustica-audio?
a bit of patience is needed with them, those plugs are SO intensive,, maybe they could be coded better perhaps. You need to download ‘aquarius’ which is their plug-in loader. First create an account i think then download aquarius. The plugs are super cool, but just too unstable i get cpu spikes on my new hackingtosh! i reckon even with your mac pro it would give you crap too.
Thanks Neil for all this info. Question - Did you need to update the firmware for those Samsung M.2s? Basically the only bad reviews on that SSD are mac users. I just got the squid card and am shopping now for the modules. I might try those Sabrents- they are so tempting and are mac ready out of the box.
I bought the Samsung’s in back in March - popped them in out of the box and was up and running. Maybe the firmware issue was from previous batches?
Neil...have you ever considered to take a short film and or music to offer your experience and approach to mixing mastering video and audio?
Nope, but I’ll do a breakdown of writing a cartoon cue just to show all the kit In action :)
@@NeilParfittMusic lol...hey I would love to see and hopefully learn something from it.....I imagine it's not all fun all the time in your line of work, but I bet the fun parts are really memorable.
what's the real-world performance (actual test) on this build? how many vsti's? how many convolution reverbs? how many audio tracks? how many general-purpose eq/comps? how many instances of serum can it run (a well known heavy cpu vsti)? how many instances of ni's massive x vsti? i think this was a sensible value-driven buying approach. but how does the system perform under real workloads? that's the key factor.
problem with those type of tests... "I can run 2000 channels strips with W, X,Y'' with VI Z" is that those tests are never realistic either as no session is ever a sustained crunch like that. It's all about the random chaos of madness coming and going in waves and bursts... especially in television and film where you just need a ton of crap sitting there, routed and ready to be triggered.
The show I'm writing on now, my template is well over 1000 tracks, nothing is offline/bypassed, there are at least 60 Kontakts in VEP each with 16 heavy sounds loaded within, there's eq everywhere, reverbs, compressors etc, plenty of local VI's in Logic (native and 3rd party), Protools up behind it dealing with stems, Resting template ram footprint is over 220GB.
It's all just humming along for any cue I've been writing - from the teeniest thing to the most Boombastic orchestral hybrid cue.
That's my real-world test so far - and I've done 10 episodes with this system writing. The other show is prepping/stemming score in Protools - the mix engine is HDX but plenty of the verbs, EQ, dynamics and such are surround and it's not breaking a sweat. This would have brought the trashcan to its knees in defeat. I've delivered 9 episodes of that so far.
love your videos thank you for making the content we need
Great vid, Neil!
great video very informative thank you !
Hey Neil, thanks for the video! I am also running a mac pro and I am wondering for the Amfeltec. I noticed there are fans on it, which I don't really want to have extra noise. I was considering getting the Sonnet they have a silent version without any moving parts. Have you heard anyone using that model from the industry?
You can take the fans off the amfeltec. There’s enough air flow in the machine to keep those m.2’s at a good temperature. Because there’s multiple double height bays, I put the card thrrr and kept the adjacent bracket off so more air pushes by. I also bumped the system
Fan speed by 100rpm with Macs Fan Control and it’s caused no audible increase in system noise
This guy’s cursor is bigger than my ego somehow.
Great summary, thanks for that.
Thanks Neil, love your video, that's exactly the config I want to go for my only concern is do you recommend spending this much money if the macpro switches to arm in 2 years? Does this mean that this machine will loose all its value if we want to sell it in like 4 years? Isn't Apple gonna force everyone to switch to their ARM processors by making updates to logic only work on Arm based mac and so on? I really want this machine but I don't want to wake up in 2 years thinking I spent 10K on something no one will be interested in. How did you take this news when Apple announce they won't work with intel anymore? Thanks a lot
It’s a hard question to answer. I think of this like any use situstion. If you’re absolute jammed in a corner pushing the limits of the older machines where it’s slowing your workflow and you’re compromising... then yes.. but if you’re “still fine” ... I’d wait it out.
@@NeilParfittMusic thanks for the advice
The background needs more blinking lights! Anyway, an excellent video from a very different perspective to mine as a retired IT technician.
Hey Neil, tell me about the 30” LG 4K display for $480. I’d love to find that. It’s time for me to retire my 30” Dell dual-link DVI monitor (after something like 13 years)!
I’ve been looking for an IPS unit because It looks like the cheap 4K displays these days don’t have great viewing angle specs. I’m actually considering the Monoprice 32” !
It’s the LG 32UK550-B that’s behind me
Neil Parfitt thanks - are you happy with it? Viewing angle ok? (Appreciate it, and your sharing the knowledge in general!)
infindebula looks great from my work position. I haven’t tested drastic angles but will take a peek when I’m there later on this eve
Neil Parfitt totally appreciate it. Monitor shopping is hard during COVID. I’m often directly in front of the monitor while a collaborator or client is beside me, and they need to see all the action!
Hi Neil, thanks for the awesome nerdy video’s, love em! Do you have any advice for an amateur machine though around the 2-3k price? I’m still rocking a 3,1 Mac Pro with 8 core 2,8 and 10gb ram and was thinking about getting omnisphere or Xfer serum but after downloading a demo of serum, certain sounds already give me the dreaded last core spike in logic in a new session! 🤬 What’s the bare minimum or better yet budget sweet spot config like you showed here for a musicians needs of say 15 AU tracks like omnisphere and another 30 audio tracks? Go Canada!
You could squeeze a few more out of your current machine if you bump the chips to 3.2ghz
Search for the Intel x5482 SLANZ. You can probably find a pair for under $250. It would bring your machine from 2.8 to 3.2
All you need is some thermal paste, a long 3mm hex, a philips screwdriver and about 20 minutes.
@@NeilParfittMusic Thanks but wouldn’t that be just a marginal upgrade?
@@NeilParfittMusic Hi Neil
Am really stressing about this. My 3.1 Mac Pro is giving me grief. Is is better for me to go for a refurbished 6.1 or look to the highestspec mac mini or 10 core iMac 2020. I'd be so grateful for a steer. Kind regards Geoff
@@geoffsmith673 I'd go with the 10 core iMac out of those options so you have modern i/o for current interface options
@@nicolasmasset You could also find a 2019 i9 MacBook Pro. It's an awesome nachine, or even a refurbished iMac with an i7 CPU
I have watched most of your videos on your Mac Pro and just found out you were in Canada, not sure why I thought you were in LA or something. Loved the videos so far on Mac Pro stuff
Thanks Ralph! I do love that LA weather though...
I love your setup!
why no windows machine ?
about Sonnet, they now have newer version of PCIe NVME card without fan ;)
Awesome... a company that listens to their customer base :) :)
Not bad for a McDonald's professional...good video...
Neil really needs to get a gig scoring a McDonalds commercial to complete the circle.
Awesome video Neil - JUST what I needed ! What do you think of the OWC Accelsior 4M2 PCIe drives ? They claim over 6GB throughput for not that much more than regular M.2. SSDs.
I haven’t used the latest incarnation of them, but the first few I bought many many years ago both failed. Check forums and stuffs for more user experiences as I’m not sure how they are now
@@NeilParfittMusic OK, got it. Thanks very much for the reply ! I am totally new to this and don't even know a single forum that would be appropriate to check. Could you recommend any ? Thanks again for taking the time to make this great video. There must be a ton of people who needed EXACTLY this from someone who actually did it ! (like me)
@@Starlite4321 I’d honestly go for something tried and true like a Samsung EVO m.2 with a sonnet pcie card
Great Neil, thanks !
Hey Neil!, I Really love your videos! You are super personable and you do an excellent job of explaining it so even I can understand haha! We share a lot of the same likes and humour so these vids are so great!! 👍🏼👍🏼. Question, I thought there was a link somewhere to the memory you purchased... I’ve been going through all your videos and can’t seem to find it. Any chance you could point me in the direction to what you use? I’m pretty sure I’ll be picking up the 16 core.
Again... ty & I appreciate you so much! Stay safe my friend! Looking forward to your future videos!
Go Canada!!! Haha!!! Love It!! 🇨🇦
Thanks 😀😀😀
I got them from Amazon - but it’s nemix. Looks like they’re having a sale:
nemixram.com/apple-compatible-memory/mac-pro/mac-pro-2019-macpro7-1/
Thank You SO Much Neil! Very much appreciated!! I hope to meet/work with you one day when we’re through these crazy times! Being a St. Catharines boy, it’s not a far trip! Thanks again and ttyl! cc. 🇨🇦‼️
About the thunderbolt ports on the GPUs..
You won't get full bandwidth out of them and 2 ports share a single thunderbolt bus.
It doesn't really matter unless you're going plug in an external SSD or a dock or something with high throughput.
I don't own a MacPro nor do I make music but these videos are so good
If you, personally and hypothetically, were not constrained to the so called "industry standard" software and not constrained by the requirement for format compatibility - just you doing your very own thing - ... and let's also say you give yourself a generous amount of time where you can look through the many DAWs that are out there as well as the possible hardware for the box that runs the DAW that you will be choosing; would you have an idea now where you would gravitate towards? Things you would like to test for a deeper dive?
I keep asking that question to audio pro users I know, and usually it just comes down to them really not wanting to try and learn new things... which is a shame because some of them leave workflow, performance and money on the table. Which inevitably means they are cutting away the most precious commodity they have. Their lifetime.
I’d be on a ryZen machine for sure.
@@NeilParfittMusic every mac fan will say that the price of a mac is about reliability which is not true
@@Teluric2 direct usage by me and my peers would prove otherwise. I'm not standing up for their repair policies (which are stupid).. but instead, from them running day in and day out in studios all over the place with uptime in the 99%
is the shirt for sale? what about the cat? I need a guide
Lolz!
I threw 4 of the 2tb sabrent cards on an OWC card. Had some minor issues with Softraid, but those have finally been sorted.
I also have 4 of the 1tb Samsung 960's, same card. Performance is within 10% between the two. I expect to throw in the 8tb by Q2 2021.
What did you run into with softraid? Using that here as well.
@@NeilParfittMusic Two builds back I would have the array randomly disappear. Luckily it's not doing it now. There were some forum posts on it. Since the updates though, i've been rocking fine. Still, I archive the two ssd's nightly just in case.
ZVexxPlayer eek! That’s scary. I’m looking forward to AFS volumes whenever they get to it!
Great video and very sympathetic kind. I got the 16core for some months now and I´m kinda frustrated because I have expected some more power with Logic Pro. In special cases when using a large bus chain filled up with hungry mastering plugins I got permanent system overloads because Logic does not seem to be able to distribute the processor load evenly. In this mastering bus-into-bus case it can only address the first cpu thread. No matter what I do or change, this thread is peaking all the time while the other 31 threads are sleeping. For me it looks like Logic has not yet been optimized and with the new Mac Pro range. And as you said, the individual cpu cores are not the most powerful ones. For music production with many tracks and instruments works great, but when it comes to my 1-4 mastering bus chains it gets frustrating. Also a 6min song is bouncing about 8 minutes (offline). My previous machine was a Mac Pro (2009) and the difference in relation to this scenario makes me crazy, because i bought the MP to be able to work efficiently and fluently for the next few years, which is unfortunately not the case here.
Hrmm I wonder if there’s also some other factors adding to this issue. What’s your audio interface? Sample rate, buffer etc? I’m also assuming you’ve tried various configurations of LX audio. Trying different combos of live (reserves and pins a core vs playback tracks only). What’s your buffer and process size? Are these mastering sessions on top of the existing song session or a standalone template? FWIW logic has always been “meh” with multi core management - I usually park my selected arrange track to a go-nowhere midi track during mixing as it seems to spread cores better vs pinning a few. I’ve been doing that since ten years ago on L9. What mastering plugins are you using?
@@NeilParfittMusic Hey Neil, thank you so much for your reply and expertise. I´m on Logic and Mac for decades but this case really brings me down. Apple Pro Support has not yet been able to provide a solution, but you know that yourself, haha. I have tried different settings with playback & live tracks and even running on max buffer size (1024) does not help. Also switching to system audio instead of my Motu interface was not bringing any solution. Apple suggested to split plugins into busses and let the master out free, but even a big split with only one plugin per bus does not help to address more then the first thread. I´m also aware about the live midi track hack (rec button armed). Sometimes this helps, but looks pretty tough to keep this situation when working. Most times its a mastering template with just 6-15 stems. The biggest bummer in this scenario is always Izotope Ozone 9 which is eating 80% of the first cpu core. Without Ozone it runs much better, but still only one core gets addressed. Would be super great if i could drop you a mail, i got some screenshots and videos about this case. Big up for your friendly help !
Ahh, sample rate is just 44.1 or 48k, nothing spectacular.
matty menck yeah drop me a line - wouldn’t mind testing a session on my end to see if logic dies or not, assuming ozone has a timed demo or something
Also, did you reach out to izotope? Could be a case of better optimization being needed.
Great info! Thanks!
I have a Sabrent Rocket in my MacBook. It’s solid and very fast!
I went and made a hackintosh.... I mean its painful but the cost difference I'm ok with having to be hands-on.