GSF600 - Carburetor cleaning and float heights
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ธ.ค. 2024
- Disassembled and cleaned up the carburetors on the GSF600 because I was worried that rust may have made its way into the jets from the fuel tank. Carburetor looked mighty clean inside, and I know that the parts are nearly new and shouldn’t have much wear. The alarming thing was the pilot screw setting at 3.5 turns whereas the manual says 1 7/8 turns. Might explain the spark plugs looking like it was running rich. Reset to stock.
Also set the float heights. I had set them way too conservative previously at over 19mm, and stock setting is 17+/-1. They’re all between 17.2-17.6 now.
Update: It's fixed! • GSF600 - It's Fixed!: ...
I expect to probably have to open up the A/F mixture a bit more towards 2-2.5, but that can be done while the carburetor is on the bike.
This is perfect. There are a lot of videos that miss details or are too old and the cameras aren’t clear. This was very useful. Thank you!
Thanks for the kind words, Jonathan. Hopefully it proves useful.
Thank you for the sentence after 25 sec... tip about drilling out the brass over the pilot.... made my day👍 Stig from Norway
Thanks so much Matt, just bought this 03 banana katana from a dude who didnt have much mechanical knowledge, and encountered an air fuel issue along with the choke cable being stuck causing it to bog and die. Great condition engine and smooth transmission otherwise. Excited to get it running tomorrow when the cable comes in.
Nice man, congrats on the new-to-you machine! Hopefully there's just a few odds and ends for you to clean up, and then you'll be set and on the road.
@@matttriestodothingsthanks a bunch for uploading this video man, ended up adjusting the floats properly and fuel/air ratio. Was my first time ever taking apart carbs this far. Some katana forums recommend a half unscrew more for a exhaust tip for the air/fuel, and 4.5-5 whole screws total for higher performance rejet kits. The previous owner from the guy i purchased from had rejetted it, so thats something to keep in mind for anyone whos bought one and the air fuel is weird, might be rejetted. Bikes running great now, cheers 🤙
@@jewelscoop3570 "Bike's running great now" -- that's the best part to hear! Hell yea man, nice work.
A tip I got from one of the Honda VFR gurus was that if you're getting out past 4.5-5 turns on the A/F mix xcrews, you want to go up a pilot size. The issue being that the spring tension no longer holds it tight so they can start to back out.
That being said, if it's running well, run that bitch. So much of this is dark arts that if you've got it running well--don't even worry about it. Just enjoy the ride. Cheers man.
Really enjoy the down-to-earth commentary. Keep up the good. More V4 please.
Thanks man, I appreciate it. I don't have the polish or the knowledge of a lot of the people out there that really know what they're doing, but it's a fun challenge to try to give it a shot. Especially on topics that don't have a lot of content published about them.
There will be more V4. I'm just hesitant about doing anything more "how to" about them because I'm still pretty far out of my depth on those little buggers. But they are definitely my favorite.
I used a VW fuel filter. It's smaller than your wix, but has larger ends. You don't even need hose clamps. Thanks for explaining the carb internals. Don't feel bad about having to do things more than once. It happens to everyone.
I'll definitely look those up, thanks for the suggestion! I have a bunch of smaller ones; but I haven't found a good small one with large enough connection points. Appreciate the input.
thanks for the video, appreciate how well you've filmed it so it makes it all super clear, good job!
Thanks Giles!
Best video by far!! Thank you very much sir
There are certainly some parts I wish I could go back and re-do or expand on 2.5 years later.. oh well. Thanks Jason.
Great video. I have a 1200 that was improperly winterized and the fuel destroyed the carbs. Very helpful for my rebuild. @9:07 Ask me how much fun that was to get off...lol
hah, I've gotten much better at removing and re-seating that V4 carburetor. I was just being a baby.
Glad to hear the video was helpful for your rebuild. I'd love to be on a Bandit 1200 sometime and feel just how much difference doubling the displacement makes. 1200cc is just beastly on an inline.
Hi
Very useful video 👍
Did the 17.5mm on the floats do the trick?
Just doing mine after being off the road since 2011
I've had to cut and weld the tank up and seal it with POR 15 that didn't quite do it so had to get POR patch for the outside as you cant do the 15 more than once. Anyway slowly getting there.
Again very useful but would love an answer to the float gaps please
Found a Haynes manual online! UK the float should be 14.6 + - 1.0mm. Says my pilot jet should be 17/8 but I screwed it in to start and it was 31/4 and was running fine last time out so setting this.
So many differences MAD
I think you'll see different float heights depending on the generation of the bike. Don't quote me on it, but I am pretty certain that the MK2 (like in this video) had the 17mm float height, but the previous generation had a different number. As far as I know, the float heights I set to in this video worked well for me. I think I put about 2,500 miles on the bike, and my buddy now owns it and continues to ride it without issue.
The air/fuel screws you're going to get a lot of variation in where people settle on those. I generally run as close to the lean stock setting as I can while knowing the factory always sets these things up too lean for emissions reasons. Pretty sure I settled at either 2 or 2 1/4 turns. I've heard of people running up to 3 without issue. My theory is that once you get over 3, you want to increase the pilot size to get the A/F screws back into the proper range. If you run those A/F screws way out, the spring tension gets weaker and those things can end up backing out over time.
Sounds like you've been busy if you've cut up and welded a tank! That's well beyond my ability. Hopefully you're well on your way to getting the bike roadworthy and back for it's triumphant return 13 years later. Jesus, 2011 was already 13 years ago? jeeeeze. That hurt to type.
nice video mate, the fuel filter is in the tank, atached to the fuel tap
thankyou for your video, I have no excuse to strip my carbs now.
Good luck Rich. Pictures, patience, and a JIS screwdriver. You'll be good to go.
I always find float heights a weird one to do. Luckily for me on the old srads the they are flat but you've got the added challenge of a measuring a curved edge
I usually hook up an auxiliary fuel tank now to verify that they're not leaking. They're definitely tough because it seems so difficult to be precise. On my VF500 I also pulled the drain plugs and measured the volume in each float. This is again a little imprecise because there is fuel in the fuel line, so the first bowl is going to read high (usually), but if you do it twice on all four floats, you can know you're at least in the ballpark.
Hello..really liked your video...i have a 98 katana...is the foat height adjustment 17 also? I also noticed after putting my carb back together that 1 of the floats is not moving up and down as freely as compared to the 3 others...any suggestions? Thank you...
I think the Katana is slightly different on the float heights. I haven't touched one personally, but my first searches show either 14.6mm or 13mm. If you have a copy (or can find a download) of the factory service manual, it should be listed in there. I'd verify first before making any adjustments.
If one float isn't moving up and down as freely, you may want to check that the pin that holds the float bowl isn't bent. If there's corrosion on the pin or some kind of obstruction, you can use really fine sandpaper (3000 grit is what I've used) to polish the pin a bit. The only other thing that could really cause impeded movement would be if the float valve or float seat were nicked, and it was catching. At least, I can't think of anything else.
@@matttriestodothingsAwsome...thanks for the reply.....
Regarding the seat for the slide needle does it only fit one way if you try the other way round is it too big to go in and through please
By the way superb video
I can't recall if it will actually push through if you put it in upside down, but you want the tapered (the inside is tapered inward to center the needle) end put in first so the needle falls into it.
Do you recommend getting a carb rebuid kit when doing the carbs? If yes, any recommendations?
If it's the first time they're being cleaned/touched in a decade... Then yes. Only because of the rubber bits because they're going to degrade with time. If you are pulling a float bowl off for the first time in 20 years, there's a good chance the gasket is toast. Same goes for the tiny little rubber o-rings on the air/fuel mixture screws and the orings that reside on the float valves.
My hesitancy in actually saying "yes" though is because Ive learned that the OEM jets and whatnot are generally all fine once they've been cleaned up. And if you replace with unknown aftermarket, you've introduced new variables. So Id always try to clean up the OEM first and then replace them if they look fucked. The one caveat being the float valve and needle.
I don't have strong feelings on rebuild kits, but the K&L stuff has worked well for me on a few bikes. I've gone super cheap on some rebuild kits in the past and cursed myself immediately when I realized I wasted a whole weekend ending up with fuel leaks trying to save $25.
So, that's my long answer non answer. The bike in this vid has a K&L kit in it (rubber bits) with the OEM jets, and it's working pretty good at the moment.
about to do my carbs for my 600 bandit and ty for this video .. one question .. why did you not replace the JIS screws with Torx or Unbraco screws ? since you had them off and all :D
I sometimes replace with Allen screws. I wouldn't ever do Torx for the float bowls.
Hi mike here in the uk, i have a 600bandit s, of which i have stubbied the end can sounds great now, thing is on shut off it popps like mad, do i cover the air filter just leave the hole for the rubber boot or just leave it because it mite be running a little rich at the moment, and i need to lower the fuel consumption a little can you help bro ;-) cheers mike
What year is the bike? And, more importantly, does it have a PAIR system on it? Those PAIR systems are notorious for causing a lot of unwanted popping due to injecting fresh air into the exhaust. I deleted the PAIR on my bike with a set of block off plates, but it wasn't for popping reasons. I just wanted to eliminate a variable in troubleshooting air/fuel issues, and it also makes accessing spark plug #3 a mess with it installed.
Did you make jetting changes when you switched to the stubbied can? It's possible you made too big of a swing and overshot, so too much fuel is being pulled in. In regards to the air filter, I have the rubber boot on with the ~3" diameter hole. But I was shooting for exactly stock performance (besides PAIR system) because I wanted to eliminate as many variables as possible. As a quicker test than pulling the carburetor rack out, you could tape parts of the air filter inlet to determine how that affects your bikes performance. If it has a PAIR, and it's legal for you to remove it, I'd also consider that.
I should mention, you can also end up with popping from running an engine too lean. With your explanation though, that's not my first guess. I don't want to give the impression that popping only happens when it's running rich. I had crazy lean popping on my CL350 before I rejetted. It's just that on a Bandit with a PAIR, I'm guessing rich. You'll have to figure that out first to determine how to resolve it.
@@matttriestodothings what you mean by the pair system an its a 1998 600s bandit ;-)
@@janwoodworth5072 A PAIR system is a secondary pulsed air injection system that shoots cold air into the exhaust to complete incomplete combustion. It's responsible for a lot of popping as its igniting unburnt fuel in the exhaust. It was added in some models/countries in order to pass emissions; however, it's actual effectiveness is debatable. Anyway, I don't believe your bike has one since I don't think they came until the MK2 models in... 2000(?). It's a big mess of hoses operated by the vacuum port on carburetor #3 that opens and closes based on different factors. It's a mess.
@@matttriestodothings no it doesnt mate just a normal 600 bandit with a stubby exhaust ;-)
Hi bud grreeeat videos but are the measurements in metric ?
In general, on carburetors, I believe I'm always thinking in metric. The times where my American side wins over is measuring torque (ft-lb) or valve lash (thousands of an inch).
I'm trying to think if there's anywhere on a carb I'd be using anything non-metric... don't think so. Float heights would definitely be in mm.
Appreciate the video man, would you happen to know the tolerances/ measurements for the B12?
Thanks Colton. I do not, unfortunately. I came across them often during my searches for 600 information, but I don't have a definitive printout of the 1200's specs. Maybe I'll happen across a 1200 someday. The only spec I absolutely remembers is that the default A/F mixture screws were 3 turns out as opposed to the 600's 1+7/8 turns out, which I thought was a huge difference.
thanks so much for the video ! You got my sub man! currently working on a 03 gsf600, also have a vacuum problem lol
Welcome to the club, hah. My biggest recommendation here is to start with a new air filter if you aren't 100% sure that it's good. You can get a HiFloFiltro for ~$20 compared to the OEM that's around $60. It would have saved me a lot of headaches by ensuring that I wasn't fighting with poor air delivery when I believed it was fine by eye-balling the previous air filter.
Good luck on chasing down and resolving the problem. If you run into any specific issues, feel free to ask. I'll do my best to let you know how I resolved the issues on this 2002.
@@matttriestodothingslol thanks! yeah i checked air filter , looks very clean. So basically my bike is reving high on its own once i start the bike, then it dies. So my guess was that the bike didnt have a strong suction to bring out the gas. The bike also has stock orings on the carb, so im replacing those.
Good video, thanks for posting it. I’ve been trying to troubleshoot my carbs several times now, can’t find the vacuum leak. So, carbs sent off to a professional for a full rebuild, and new boots. Hope it works. Ps what’s a JIS? Some kind of screwdriver?
JIS is "Japanese Industrial Standard". As opposed to Philips screw slots which are cammed, JIS are straight slotted. Using a Philips screwdriver on a JIS screw runs the risk of stripping it which is why everything strips so friggen easily on Japanese bikes if you're not using a JIS screwdriver. You can tell if the screw/bolt is JIS if there is a dot imprinted on it.
If I can avoid it, I never ever touch anything with a philips screwdriver anymore. JIS drivers work perfectly fine on philips screws; however, they work brilliantly on JIS screws. There are a few occasions where I need a super long screwdriver or something and all I have is philips. Besides that, JIS for everything.
I highly recommend this Vessel Megadora 980 Impacta P2x100 #2 Cross Point Impact Screwdriver. Probably the most used tool in my house. www.amazon.com/Vessel-Megadora-Impacta-P2x100-Screwdriver/dp/B003BI8HHQ/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=jis+screwdriver&qid=1623679312&sr=8-4
If you search youtube for "Phillips vs JIS", they can do a better job visually than I can trying to explain it.
@@matttriestodothings Hey thanks so much for your reply. I have just ordered a four piece set of JIS screwdrivers. Really pleased to have learnt something today. Again, thank you.
@@matttriestodothings Hi Matt, I’ve just bought the Megadora impact driver too….and some 90 picks. I’ve got this…..
hi
your video is helping me even if i have a GSF400.i wonder if you know or anyone else how many turns on the air screew for the 400 carbs?
some say 1.5 turn,,,other 1.3/4 ...i am confused!
i am located in Cannada
thanks for the help and great video you did
Gervais
Hey Gervais. If your bike is a 91-97 originally in Canada, what I can find is that the stock setting would be 1.5 turns according to page 4-5 on this PDF = litetek.co/docs/Suzuki_GSF400_BANDIT_Fuel&Lubrication.pdf
That being said, the correct amount of turns on the A/F screws is going to depend on any other modifications you've done to the bike to deviate from stock (intake filter, exhaust, jetting). The bikes were also often jetted lean from the factory for emissions testing.
I'd venture to guess your sweet spot is somewhere between 1.5 - 1.75 turns though if the bike is close to stock.
@@matttriestodothings yes it is stock,
i just dismantle and changed all the jets ,some were plug by old gaz residus so i changed them all but i kept the OEM numbers,,its just the 32.5 idle jet that i thaught.the OEM add just a center hole of 32.5 but the one i found have 4 holes around the diameter,,,,and the bike dont run idle so i am cleaning the OEM now and will reinstall them ,,will see what happened .thanks for your response
Gervais
i tried 1.5 and added 1/4 turn ,,,it seems to be rich a little bit at idle just by the smell in the garage and i came back at 1.5 .
@@gervaisfillion9417 Trial and error game. Honestly I wish I had a better sense of when I was rich vs. lean so I could be more useful. Hopefully you're getting close to where you need to be!
thx man for the video , very good quality
Thanks Tim.
Hello Matt. I would like some help. Im having a 2000 bandit gsf600 carb problems and no one in my area seems to know what they are doing. And im just wasting money trying to get something fix thats not getting fixed
What kind of issues are you having? Have you been able to remove the carburetor to inspect it, or is the bike running improperly and you're suspecting it's a carburetor issue?
So issue im having i believe is float height. The bike ran perfectly fine starts up runs and revs perfectly fine. It can idle all day. U can cruise going 15mph perfectly fine. But when u get up and get on it. It will get up and go for about 5 -7 mins and it will act like certain cylinder isn’t getting fuel. And it will still run. But u can tell by what exhaust pipe is hot on what cylinder its running on and which its not.
Ive been trying to figure out. Ive been having this issue for 2 years now and ive had taken it to 2 shops. 1 did everything to the bike i didn’t ask for. When I could of done all that other stuff myself and they didn’t fix the main issue. And the other shop just told me they don’t wanna mess with it.
@@richardcochran479 Have you changed the spark plugs on the bike? I know #3 is kind of a bitch to get to. I've read, and from my own experience, it seems like the Bandit fouls plugs relatively quickly. My first thought is that if you haven't changed the plugs in a long time, you probably want to do that to rule out that variable.
The other thought I had is whether you're getting adequate fuel flow. I think this is less likely, but are you able to run it up to near redline without it losing power and hold it in higher RPM's for 5-7 minutes? Like a freeway ride in a lower gear? I've had a fuel starvation issue on another bike due to the petcock not flowing enough fuel. Everything ran fine up to 8000rpms, but it wouldn't go over it until I swapped the petcock with a different one that didn't have flow issues. If you're able to get it there and hold it within those first 5-7 minutes though, this wouldn't be my guess.
The last thing I'd be suspecting is either a coil or coil cable building too much resistance as it gets hot. This is kind of a bitch to troubleshoot unless you have a spare coil. Some coils can work fine at room temperature but they start to get wonky as they get hot. It could also just be that one of the cables is shot near the terminal point. Do you know which cylinder it is that stops firing?
I recently changed the plugs that was my first thing i did before getting into the carb floats
Just as I expected - Your jets are dirty! Why didn't You clean and polish them?
BTW - did You adjust the fuel service level, or did You just decide to trust the float settings?
What are you on about dude? The bike has run fine for about 4 years or so now.
Thank you for this detailed tutorial and all the precise work which I'm also going through right now :) Could you just tell me what have you used to make this carb so clean from the outside and in the inside? :)
These carburetors spend time in an ultrasonic cleaner prior to me receiving them. I've since bought myself a 15L ultrasonic cleaner, and I use primarily water with a ~20:1 mixture with Simple Green Extreme (the Extreme is safe for aluminum at concentrations lower than 15:1). However, what I've also found works REALLY well is to soak to carburetor in Evaporust prior. This will remove a bunch of deposits that I struggled with in the ultrasonic.
It's not really necessary to get them sparkling clean, but it looks nice. Carb cleaner, fishing wire, and compressed air after the cleaner baths are still necessary to get out any hardened gunk.
You don't need an ultrasonic cleaner to get them this clean--it just makes the process far quicker. It also requires totally disassembling the carburetors (usually) and breaking apart the rack. That's not usually necessary, but it looks nicer and helps you rule out fuel delivery issues quicker.
@@matttriestodothings thank you so much for all these tips!
I have a GSF 600 Bandit 2000: Have the following problem. Bike idles no problem, take it for a ride and after 5 mins of riding it looses power and cuts out. will crank but not start. leave for 30-50 mins and the bike will start again. It sounds like a fuel starvation / float sticking issue. I have had the carbs off , good clean and blown with air line, checked float heights. used all stock settings and digital carb balancer. runs good at idle, but cut out problem when riding still occurs. Not sure if this maybe an electrical issue wrt stator/pick-up/CDI , but would appreciate any advice.
I think you're probably on the right path by thinking fuel starvation. I would check to make sure that the vacuum line that runs from one of the carburetors to the vacuum-operated petcock is not damaged in any way. I would also consider pulling the petcock out of the fuel tank and checking if the inlet filter is clogged which could be causing too much restriction. If you're going that far, it would probably also be a good idea to pull the vac-operated petcock apart and inspect the diaphragm to make sure that it doesn't have any tears or dirt built up inside.
You can test the operation of the petcock then with the fuel tank off the bike by hooking up a line to the vacuum port and either pulling a vacuum with your mouth or hooking it up to a brake bleeder. If the fuel flows with vacuum applied and stops flowing when vacuum is disconnected, it is operating correctly. Just make sure you're catching all of this into a container.
That's where I would start first before troubleshooting electricals. Though I was going to suggest cleaning up the terminals on the coil connections as well. This is something I've also been meaning to do on mine as I've heard it mentioned that corrosion can cause some issues and the symptoms will vary with heat.
@@matttriestodothings thanks for the advice, i had damaged my petcock whilst de-rusting the fuel tank so i have a chinese aftermarket attached. i think this petcock flow is not so good. have purchased a 2nd hand OE petcock which i will give a full rebuild and then replace on the tank. I found one of the float valves is sticking, so im in the process of getting a new one. will let you know how i get on asap. cheers
@@reggy246 Those damned dirty petcocks. Yea, unfortunately the chinese aftermarket petcocks never work right (you think they would basically just being a valve!)--that was a lesson I had to learn myself. Good detective work on the sticking float as well. It sounds like you're getting closer. Thanks for the update.
Literally the same issue im having
I have a replacement pitcock on it but im having the same issue
Whats is for a 1994 suzuki katana .or where can i get a service manual
I'm not positive what the stock setting is for a 94 Katana--I would guess very close to 2 though. Generally I buy a paper copy on ebay/Amazon. You can often times find PDF downloads as well on bike-specific forums. Check out katriders.com, and you might find one there.
@@matttriestodothingsthanks you
Have you had any trouble with it running to lean sense the change?
I went through a *lot* of trial and error, but I ultimately got it running super well at 2 turns out on the A/F screws. That's 1/8 turn out from the lean factory settings. I'd say it's the ideal baseline for a non-modified bike (fuel delivery and exhaust).
If you're struggling with this yourself, my advice would be to replace the air filter with a $20 hiflofiltro if you're not sure how old it is. I spent a lot of time chasing issues that were exacerbated by me not having a clean air filter--even tho I thought it was.
What year is this for? Would this be simmilar for an 89 600 Katana?
2002. From what I can tell, the Katana was actually fairly similar; however, the previous generation Bandit would be a closer comparison. I've not personally played around with a Katana, so I can't say with any certainty.
A kettes és hármas úszóház kelyheket cseréld meg...mivel az üzemanyag leeresztő csavarok egymás fele állnak, és az úgy nem jó
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Hi I think you forgot the O rings tiny little one's under the diafram cover
Which ones do you mean? Looking at parts diagram and not sure where there would be anything related to the diaphragm and slide. Parts 12-16. imgur.com/a/C4aD0xy
they're under the diaphragm cover next to the vaccum inlet...
@@thestcroixkid I guess I'm not seeing it because I'm starting at the parts diagram, and I'm not seeing an o-ring under the diaphragm where the slide is operating. Is it numbered in the diagram I linked?
@@matttriestodothings where the cap and the top of the carb come together, there is a port that lines up with the vaccuum bib, right next to that port is a small depression, that is where the small o-ring goes...
@@matttriestodothings just checked your link, it wont zoom so I cant see...